1 00:00:11,464 --> 00:00:16,024 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mamma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges 2 00:00:16,144 --> 00:00:19,624 Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and borders that this podcast 3 00:00:19,704 --> 00:00:27,224 Speaker 1: is recorded on From Mamma Mia. Welcome to the Spill, 4 00:00:27,264 --> 00:00:30,024 Speaker 1: your daily pop culture Fixed. I'm Laura Brodney and I'm 5 00:00:30,304 --> 00:00:33,384 Speaker 1: Vernon and on the show today. Last night, just as 6 00:00:33,384 --> 00:00:35,744 Speaker 1: I was laying my head on the pillow, a new 7 00:00:35,784 --> 00:00:39,784 Speaker 1: interview with Katie Perry dropped, addressing some allegations, telling some 8 00:00:39,904 --> 00:00:42,664 Speaker 1: wild stories. There's some parts of this interview that are 9 00:00:42,664 --> 00:00:44,544 Speaker 1: in the news cycle today, but I don't think people 10 00:00:44,584 --> 00:00:46,984 Speaker 1: are talking about the parts that are actually the most 11 00:00:47,024 --> 00:00:49,464 Speaker 1: explosive and groundbreaking. So we're going to get into that. 12 00:00:49,624 --> 00:00:52,904 Speaker 2: But first, But first, Travis kelce has been in the 13 00:00:52,944 --> 00:00:56,944 Speaker 2: news yesterday and today for two completely different reasons. So 14 00:00:57,144 --> 00:00:59,984 Speaker 2: the first reason was the trailer for the new horror 15 00:01:00,104 --> 00:01:04,624 Speaker 2: Ryan Murphy series has been released. It's called Grotesque Gerrie. 16 00:01:04,744 --> 00:01:05,864 Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty much right. 17 00:01:06,384 --> 00:01:09,384 Speaker 2: I tried my best. Travis Kelce is in it, but 18 00:01:09,424 --> 00:01:12,664 Speaker 2: it also stars absolute favorite Nissi Nash Betts. 19 00:01:13,024 --> 00:01:16,264 Speaker 1: Yes, because Ryan Murphy loves some stunt casting. So it's 20 00:01:16,344 --> 00:01:19,304 Speaker 1: Kim Kardashian and Travis Kelcey. He's two big stunt casting movies. 21 00:01:19,624 --> 00:01:22,504 Speaker 2: I'm so excited for this. So I don't know what 22 00:01:22,704 --> 00:01:24,704 Speaker 2: part he's going to be playing, but he's in the 23 00:01:24,784 --> 00:01:28,304 Speaker 2: trailer for such a short time I couldn't even port it. 24 00:01:28,504 --> 00:01:30,104 Speaker 1: I think it's a small role. This is not to 25 00:01:30,144 --> 00:01:32,264 Speaker 1: be confused with the big game show he has coming 26 00:01:32,304 --> 00:01:34,224 Speaker 1: out and another acting role that he has in a 27 00:01:34,264 --> 00:01:37,064 Speaker 1: movie coming out. He publicly said before he started dating 28 00:01:37,104 --> 00:01:39,784 Speaker 1: Taylor Swift that his dream and what his whole team 29 00:01:39,824 --> 00:01:42,464 Speaker 1: were working towards was making him the next the Rock. 30 00:01:42,744 --> 00:01:46,104 Speaker 1: So going from like an athlete to an established actor 31 00:01:46,144 --> 00:01:47,824 Speaker 1: who leads a movie. So that's where he's going. 32 00:01:47,824 --> 00:01:51,544 Speaker 2: He's making big Boy Boss movie. So the other reason 33 00:01:51,544 --> 00:01:53,544 Speaker 2: he was in the news is because there is a 34 00:01:53,544 --> 00:01:57,824 Speaker 2: photo that's been circulated online across multiple platforms. No one 35 00:01:57,824 --> 00:02:00,704 Speaker 2: actually knows where the source is for the photo, but 36 00:02:01,624 --> 00:02:04,904 Speaker 2: it is a photo of a breakup contract between Taylor 37 00:02:04,984 --> 00:02:09,144 Speaker 2: Swift and Travis. So it reads pretty plainly. It says 38 00:02:09,144 --> 00:02:11,224 Speaker 2: that they decided to end their relationship but still have 39 00:02:11,264 --> 00:02:13,904 Speaker 2: respect for each other. It also lists the date of 40 00:02:13,984 --> 00:02:16,224 Speaker 2: separation when it will be announced, which is the twenty 41 00:02:16,264 --> 00:02:17,144 Speaker 2: eighth of September. 42 00:02:17,264 --> 00:02:19,544 Speaker 1: We'll put that in calendar in the calendar mark we 43 00:02:20,024 --> 00:02:21,184 Speaker 1: come into work earlier that day. 44 00:02:21,904 --> 00:02:24,704 Speaker 2: The header of the contract is a full Scope logo, 45 00:02:24,864 --> 00:02:29,864 Speaker 2: which is Kelsey's PR company. However, he has publicly stated 46 00:02:30,064 --> 00:02:32,704 Speaker 2: that it is fake, that the document is fake. 47 00:02:33,144 --> 00:02:36,144 Speaker 1: Yeah, of course this particular document is fake. If you 48 00:02:36,184 --> 00:02:38,184 Speaker 1: look at it, it doesn't have the correct legal language 49 00:02:38,184 --> 00:02:40,824 Speaker 1: in it. It's a lot fitted by AI one hundred 50 00:02:40,824 --> 00:02:41,664 Speaker 1: percent looks fake. 51 00:02:41,864 --> 00:02:45,184 Speaker 2: So his team have told Daily Mail we have engaged 52 00:02:45,184 --> 00:02:48,504 Speaker 2: our legal team to initiate proceedings against the individuals or 53 00:02:48,624 --> 00:02:52,664 Speaker 2: entities responsible for the unlawful and injurious forgery of documents. 54 00:02:54,144 --> 00:02:56,944 Speaker 2: I feel really bad, but I'm also quite interested. Taylor 55 00:02:56,944 --> 00:02:59,264 Speaker 2: Swa have Travis Kelcey most famous people out right. Now, 56 00:02:59,264 --> 00:03:01,264 Speaker 2: there's going to be so many of these things, these 57 00:03:01,304 --> 00:03:03,504 Speaker 2: fake things circulating just for people to get clout. I'm 58 00:03:03,504 --> 00:03:05,784 Speaker 2: so interested in why he chose this one to like 59 00:03:05,784 --> 00:03:06,944 Speaker 2: publicly make a statement. 60 00:03:07,024 --> 00:03:08,744 Speaker 1: I think sometimes it's hard. I mean, obviously there's a 61 00:03:08,784 --> 00:03:10,264 Speaker 1: lot of legal back and forth in this that we 62 00:03:10,424 --> 00:03:12,184 Speaker 1: have a lot more context than what I'm about to say. 63 00:03:12,224 --> 00:03:13,704 Speaker 1: But I do think there's been like a lot of 64 00:03:13,744 --> 00:03:15,704 Speaker 1: rumors around, a lot of people saying I heard this 65 00:03:15,784 --> 00:03:18,824 Speaker 1: I heard that forging a legal document, even one as 66 00:03:18,824 --> 00:03:21,624 Speaker 1: poorly done as this and circulating in the world like that, 67 00:03:21,784 --> 00:03:24,024 Speaker 1: is a lot easier to make a legal case against 68 00:03:24,024 --> 00:03:27,744 Speaker 1: because it's proper forgery of a document. And obviously these 69 00:03:27,824 --> 00:03:29,384 Speaker 1: rumors have been around for a long time, but there 70 00:03:29,424 --> 00:03:31,664 Speaker 1: are always sources saying like, oh a source said this, 71 00:03:31,824 --> 00:03:34,344 Speaker 1: or it's alleged, and that's a lot harder to prove. 72 00:03:34,704 --> 00:03:37,544 Speaker 1: And also once you dive into that, then Taylor and 73 00:03:37,624 --> 00:03:39,624 Speaker 1: Travis would have to get very murky because you have 74 00:03:39,704 --> 00:03:42,544 Speaker 1: to prove that that's defaming you by proving it's not true. 75 00:03:42,584 --> 00:03:44,424 Speaker 1: So they would have to go to really great lengths 76 00:03:44,424 --> 00:03:47,584 Speaker 1: in a like a legal situation to prove there together, 77 00:03:47,624 --> 00:03:50,144 Speaker 1: which obviously opens up their private life to a whole 78 00:03:50,144 --> 00:03:52,424 Speaker 1: lot of scrutiny. But I think this saying like you 79 00:03:52,544 --> 00:03:55,504 Speaker 1: forged a document is not it's not getting into defamation, 80 00:03:55,624 --> 00:03:58,864 Speaker 1: but it's also pr company that well, yeah, they forged 81 00:03:58,904 --> 00:04:00,984 Speaker 1: a logo, So it's like sending out legal documents under 82 00:04:00,984 --> 00:04:01,504 Speaker 1: another name. 83 00:04:01,584 --> 00:04:03,664 Speaker 2: It's probably like you guys do this, yeah, exactly. 84 00:04:03,904 --> 00:04:05,704 Speaker 1: I also think in this, like, I'm not saying one 85 00:04:05,784 --> 00:04:08,464 Speaker 1: hundred percent that this isn't a publicity stunt. I would 86 00:04:08,504 --> 00:04:10,984 Speaker 1: be surprised if that's true on this scope. As we've 87 00:04:10,984 --> 00:04:13,824 Speaker 1: talked about before, publicity stunts a lot of work to 88 00:04:13,864 --> 00:04:15,744 Speaker 1: pull off, and like there's going to be a lot 89 00:04:15,784 --> 00:04:19,584 Speaker 1: of fallout from this, lot of messy fallout, especially from Travis. 90 00:04:19,184 --> 00:04:21,664 Speaker 2: And also for the same day that his trailer drops, 91 00:04:21,664 --> 00:04:23,104 Speaker 2: Like I doubt that he wants. 92 00:04:22,824 --> 00:04:25,744 Speaker 1: All yeah, but this contract has been in the works 93 00:04:25,784 --> 00:04:27,424 Speaker 1: and like the legal stuff against it for like the 94 00:04:27,504 --> 00:04:29,264 Speaker 1: last couple of days, so it's not like it all 95 00:04:29,304 --> 00:04:31,904 Speaker 1: came out today. So I guess, like it's hard to 96 00:04:31,904 --> 00:04:34,144 Speaker 1: say for sure, Like we'll never know one hundred percent 97 00:04:34,144 --> 00:04:36,984 Speaker 1: if they were in a PR relationship, but if they were, 98 00:04:37,224 --> 00:04:40,064 Speaker 1: it wouldn't have leaked like this. Like the intensity around 99 00:04:40,104 --> 00:04:43,784 Speaker 1: Taylor Swift and the secrecy around her is so intense 100 00:04:44,264 --> 00:04:47,224 Speaker 1: that there's always like YouTubers and things and TikTokers who 101 00:04:47,264 --> 00:04:49,464 Speaker 1: are saying, like, oh, a makeup artist told me that 102 00:04:49,704 --> 00:04:51,864 Speaker 1: her manager told her that they weren't that this was 103 00:04:51,864 --> 00:04:53,944 Speaker 1: a PR relationship and stuff, and I'm like, if it is, 104 00:04:53,984 --> 00:04:56,784 Speaker 1: there's no way that they're being so fast and loose 105 00:04:57,064 --> 00:04:59,784 Speaker 1: with this information that they're telling a random makeup artist 106 00:04:59,904 --> 00:05:02,504 Speaker 1: not having them sign NDA's they're telling random managers and 107 00:05:02,504 --> 00:05:04,744 Speaker 1: that's getting repeated to people like, that's not how this 108 00:05:04,784 --> 00:05:15,944 Speaker 1: stuff works. It would be underlocking keys so intensely so 109 00:05:16,144 --> 00:05:19,064 Speaker 1: last night, Katie Perry's interview on the Call Her Daddy 110 00:05:19,064 --> 00:05:22,024 Speaker 1: podcast with Alex Cooper dropped. It's kind of hard to 111 00:05:22,024 --> 00:05:25,344 Speaker 1: tell exactly when this was recorded because it feels like 112 00:05:25,384 --> 00:05:30,984 Speaker 1: it was recorded potentially before there was that backlash around 113 00:05:31,064 --> 00:05:34,704 Speaker 1: her latest single and album, Woman's World, But it is 114 00:05:34,784 --> 00:05:36,664 Speaker 1: also kind of in real time a little bit because 115 00:05:36,664 --> 00:05:39,984 Speaker 1: it's leading up to the release of her album one 116 00:05:40,064 --> 00:05:42,424 Speaker 1: four three, So I'd say it's kind of in that ballpark, 117 00:05:42,664 --> 00:05:47,224 Speaker 1: but also early enough that the allegations about her working 118 00:05:47,424 --> 00:05:50,384 Speaker 1: with doctor Luke after things that he has done in 119 00:05:50,424 --> 00:05:52,184 Speaker 1: the past, So it's hard to kind of place, but 120 00:05:52,224 --> 00:05:55,584 Speaker 1: I'd say it's in that ballpark, Okay, Yeah, which is interesting. 121 00:05:55,744 --> 00:05:58,464 Speaker 1: So a lot of headlines around it today. What I 122 00:05:58,544 --> 00:06:00,744 Speaker 1: kind of thought was interesting was just I guess the 123 00:06:00,904 --> 00:06:03,944 Speaker 1: overall setup of it to follow it in chronological order. 124 00:06:04,184 --> 00:06:06,304 Speaker 1: So when the mics come on and they're sitting in 125 00:06:06,344 --> 00:06:08,864 Speaker 1: the Call Her Daddy studio, they reference the fact that 126 00:06:08,864 --> 00:06:10,904 Speaker 1: they've spent quite a bit of time in the lead 127 00:06:10,944 --> 00:06:13,024 Speaker 1: up to this interview, which I think is interesting because 128 00:06:13,104 --> 00:06:16,064 Speaker 1: usually in a celebrity interview, the PR team, if they're 129 00:06:16,104 --> 00:06:18,704 Speaker 1: coming to you, bring them through the door, they sit down, 130 00:06:19,104 --> 00:06:21,424 Speaker 1: it's all really carefully timed. The MIC's go off and 131 00:06:21,424 --> 00:06:23,384 Speaker 1: they leave. They talk about the fact that they've been 132 00:06:23,424 --> 00:06:25,664 Speaker 1: spending like hours walking around her house and looking at 133 00:06:25,664 --> 00:06:28,104 Speaker 1: their renovations, looking at the business, and so we catch 134 00:06:28,144 --> 00:06:30,064 Speaker 1: them in a moment where they've obviously spent a lot 135 00:06:30,104 --> 00:06:30,744 Speaker 1: of time together. 136 00:06:30,944 --> 00:06:34,424 Speaker 2: Yeah, they seem very buddy buddy, especially in the start 137 00:06:34,504 --> 00:06:36,424 Speaker 2: of the interview, like they're just like having a girl's 138 00:06:36,544 --> 00:06:38,744 Speaker 2: chat and I feel included. 139 00:06:38,984 --> 00:06:41,184 Speaker 1: That's what that podcast is really built on, that idea. 140 00:06:41,264 --> 00:06:44,304 Speaker 2: Yeah, Like the original I Call Her Daddy podcast I 141 00:06:44,384 --> 00:06:47,824 Speaker 2: Always Forget was about dating and sex and relationships, like 142 00:06:47,864 --> 00:06:50,664 Speaker 2: advice with these two grounds giving advice, and I love 143 00:06:50,704 --> 00:06:54,344 Speaker 2: how Alex can even weave that in with the celebrity interviews, 144 00:06:54,344 --> 00:06:56,424 Speaker 2: like it doesn't feel like a hard straight interview. 145 00:06:56,824 --> 00:06:59,224 Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. We'll talk about the doctor Lou's stuff down 146 00:06:59,264 --> 00:07:01,624 Speaker 1: the track. But jumping into something I thought was quite 147 00:07:01,624 --> 00:07:03,464 Speaker 1: interesting was the Orlando bloom of it all. 148 00:07:03,904 --> 00:07:06,264 Speaker 2: Yeah, she loves Orlando Blue, she really does. 149 00:07:06,384 --> 00:07:08,664 Speaker 1: That was My takeaway after listening to this pod late 150 00:07:08,704 --> 00:07:10,904 Speaker 1: last night is that as I was listening to it, 151 00:07:10,944 --> 00:07:12,704 Speaker 1: obviously it falters a bit at the end, but as 152 00:07:12,704 --> 00:07:14,824 Speaker 1: I was listening to it, I was like, this is 153 00:07:14,864 --> 00:07:17,424 Speaker 1: a really good reminder after all these months of like 154 00:07:17,504 --> 00:07:20,984 Speaker 1: backlash against Katy Perry, of why she is so famous, 155 00:07:21,024 --> 00:07:23,224 Speaker 1: because she comes across that interview. And I might be 156 00:07:23,224 --> 00:07:24,984 Speaker 1: the only one who thinks this, but I stand by it. 157 00:07:25,144 --> 00:07:28,904 Speaker 1: She comes across in this interview great, like she's warm, 158 00:07:28,984 --> 00:07:32,464 Speaker 1: she's funny, she's over the top, she's interesting. She is 159 00:07:32,504 --> 00:07:35,024 Speaker 1: a real personality, and I think we haven't really seen 160 00:07:35,064 --> 00:07:37,664 Speaker 1: that from her lately because we saw that video get released, 161 00:07:37,664 --> 00:07:39,664 Speaker 1: we saw people tear it apart, and then this is 162 00:07:39,704 --> 00:07:42,144 Speaker 1: like the first bigger interview that she's done for a while, 163 00:07:42,384 --> 00:07:44,944 Speaker 1: and it really reminded me of why she's famous. And 164 00:07:45,024 --> 00:07:48,104 Speaker 1: I really also did like find the Orlando stuff interesting, 165 00:07:48,144 --> 00:07:50,304 Speaker 1: even though that she's talked about him before. I thought 166 00:07:50,304 --> 00:07:52,304 Speaker 1: it was interesting. She didn't talk about Russell Brand. She 167 00:07:52,344 --> 00:07:53,944 Speaker 1: brings up Russell Brand once. 168 00:07:53,824 --> 00:07:55,064 Speaker 2: And she doesn't even say his name. 169 00:07:55,104 --> 00:07:57,344 Speaker 1: She's like my ex husband, Yeah, but they're talking about 170 00:07:57,384 --> 00:08:00,264 Speaker 1: her cat, Kitty Perry, I ip who died, and then 171 00:08:00,264 --> 00:08:02,544 Speaker 1: they're talking about her other cat, Crusty. This is such 172 00:08:02,544 --> 00:08:05,264 Speaker 1: a long way, and Alex Cooper goes Crusty and she goes, yeah, 173 00:08:05,304 --> 00:08:07,824 Speaker 1: it's my name with my ex husband's name, so Russell 174 00:08:07,864 --> 00:08:09,944 Speaker 1: and Katie, and then they move on from that, which 175 00:08:09,984 --> 00:08:11,904 Speaker 1: I kind of get because there's other stuff to talk about, 176 00:08:11,904 --> 00:08:13,464 Speaker 1: but I would love to know her thoughts on like 177 00:08:13,824 --> 00:08:16,864 Speaker 1: everything that Russell brain has done in the last couple 178 00:08:16,904 --> 00:08:19,464 Speaker 1: of years, and obviously their divorce was so infamous. 179 00:08:19,504 --> 00:08:22,624 Speaker 2: I think she alludes to Russell and her previous relationships 180 00:08:23,144 --> 00:08:26,264 Speaker 2: via talking about Orlando and what Orlando brings to her 181 00:08:26,304 --> 00:08:29,944 Speaker 2: relationship now that she never got from previous relationships, Like 182 00:08:30,104 --> 00:08:31,664 Speaker 2: this is a part where I'm like, oh my god, 183 00:08:31,704 --> 00:08:33,944 Speaker 2: this is so like three years ago. But like stuff 184 00:08:34,024 --> 00:08:37,144 Speaker 2: like do the dishes and stuff like that. Yeah, we've 185 00:08:37,184 --> 00:08:39,664 Speaker 2: talked about the mental load. I guess for a celebrity 186 00:08:39,664 --> 00:08:42,664 Speaker 2: to talk about it, it feels very like new and fresh. 187 00:08:42,864 --> 00:08:45,064 Speaker 2: But it's stuff that, like, I feel like women have 188 00:08:45,064 --> 00:08:45,824 Speaker 2: been talking about. 189 00:08:45,664 --> 00:08:48,064 Speaker 1: For years one hundred percent. But I guess she's kind 190 00:08:48,064 --> 00:08:50,704 Speaker 1: of going back to when she and Orlando first decided 191 00:08:50,744 --> 00:08:52,864 Speaker 1: to merge their lives together or whatever. She says it 192 00:08:52,864 --> 00:08:55,664 Speaker 1: because she's had a few famous relationships, obviously Russell Brand, 193 00:08:55,704 --> 00:08:57,504 Speaker 1: John May I remember those days. So when she's talking 194 00:08:57,504 --> 00:08:59,624 Speaker 1: about dating a narcissist, so I was like, it could 195 00:08:59,664 --> 00:09:01,464 Speaker 1: be any of them, it's all both of them. It's 196 00:09:01,504 --> 00:09:03,624 Speaker 1: probably both of them, to be honest. And then she 197 00:09:03,664 --> 00:09:05,744 Speaker 1: talks about I do that sometimes I merge my exits 198 00:09:05,744 --> 00:09:10,744 Speaker 1: into yeah, just one big nacissistm She talks about meeting 199 00:09:10,824 --> 00:09:14,344 Speaker 1: Orlando Bloom at the Golden Globes, which is very chic. Infamously, 200 00:09:14,384 --> 00:09:16,584 Speaker 1: at the Golden Globes, like after parties, they have the 201 00:09:16,664 --> 00:09:19,104 Speaker 1: in and out burgers all over the table, and apparently 202 00:09:19,144 --> 00:09:21,424 Speaker 1: he reached across her and grabbed one from her table 203 00:09:21,464 --> 00:09:23,024 Speaker 1: and she said hey, and he then he reached over 204 00:09:23,064 --> 00:09:24,824 Speaker 1: and took another one, and she was like okay, and 205 00:09:24,864 --> 00:09:25,624 Speaker 1: then they fell in love. 206 00:09:26,744 --> 00:09:29,024 Speaker 2: It's such like Toddler way of flirting. 207 00:09:28,824 --> 00:09:31,344 Speaker 1: I know. But also the most interesting thing, and again 208 00:09:31,504 --> 00:09:33,464 Speaker 1: Headline's not picking this up today, is the fact that 209 00:09:33,504 --> 00:09:35,664 Speaker 1: she went to the Golden Globes after she cast a 210 00:09:35,704 --> 00:09:38,784 Speaker 1: spell to meet someone. Did you pick that up? No? Yeah, 211 00:09:38,784 --> 00:09:40,584 Speaker 1: she said I cast a spell before I went, and 212 00:09:40,624 --> 00:09:42,664 Speaker 1: I thought she meant like internally but then she's like, 213 00:09:42,784 --> 00:09:45,824 Speaker 1: I put my crystals out, I burned some things. She 214 00:09:45,904 --> 00:09:48,784 Speaker 1: was wearing a specific color. She thought she had some wood. 215 00:09:49,544 --> 00:09:53,304 Speaker 1: I don't think she was. I think she cast a spell. 216 00:09:53,544 --> 00:09:56,544 Speaker 1: It's like Andrew Garfield's girlfriend who also casts a spell, 217 00:09:56,584 --> 00:09:59,144 Speaker 1: and we're sleeping on this. This is how people meet 218 00:09:59,184 --> 00:09:59,864 Speaker 1: eligible men. 219 00:09:59,984 --> 00:10:01,864 Speaker 2: Oh my god, someone get the Terror book out. 220 00:10:01,864 --> 00:10:02,864 Speaker 1: One hundred percent, I get. 221 00:10:02,904 --> 00:10:04,984 Speaker 2: I don't know if that switch part doing some chance 222 00:10:05,344 --> 00:10:08,024 Speaker 2: before each recording we do some spells one hundred percent. 223 00:10:08,104 --> 00:10:10,184 Speaker 1: I will. I was super into a wicker because I 224 00:10:10,424 --> 00:10:12,144 Speaker 1: a lot of Charmed and the craft as a like 225 00:10:12,184 --> 00:10:13,944 Speaker 1: thirteen year olds. I'm sure I've got that stuff. 226 00:10:13,984 --> 00:10:16,864 Speaker 2: And the way Nicole Kidman moviecame. 227 00:10:16,584 --> 00:10:19,144 Speaker 1: Oh yeh, practical magic. Okay, so witchcraft is back on 228 00:10:19,184 --> 00:10:21,504 Speaker 1: the table. So I think it was interesting. She talked 229 00:10:21,544 --> 00:10:23,304 Speaker 1: about the fact that they got together then and then 230 00:10:23,304 --> 00:10:25,744 Speaker 1: they broke up shortly afterward. I think a year or 231 00:10:25,784 --> 00:10:28,224 Speaker 1: so spell enough spell only worked. It was like a 232 00:10:28,264 --> 00:10:30,024 Speaker 1: Cinderella Spells one night, only. 233 00:10:30,144 --> 00:10:32,424 Speaker 2: She lost the glass slipper and she's like, ah shit. 234 00:10:32,664 --> 00:10:34,384 Speaker 1: And she said they broke up because they were in 235 00:10:34,424 --> 00:10:36,184 Speaker 1: different places. And this is what I thought was interesting, 236 00:10:36,264 --> 00:10:38,184 Speaker 1: is that she had come off all of these really 237 00:10:38,304 --> 00:10:41,664 Speaker 1: rocky long term relationships, which fair enough after dating Russell 238 00:10:41,664 --> 00:10:43,664 Speaker 1: brand Needing a bit of a palate cleanser. But he 239 00:10:43,784 --> 00:10:45,824 Speaker 1: was in a different place because he had been celibate 240 00:10:45,864 --> 00:10:48,224 Speaker 1: for a long time I guess after being married to 241 00:10:48,224 --> 00:10:51,024 Speaker 1: Miranda Kerr and was like ready to break that celibacy 242 00:10:51,064 --> 00:10:53,544 Speaker 1: with her, and it didn't quite work out. And then 243 00:10:53,584 --> 00:10:55,624 Speaker 1: she went to the Hoffmann Institute, which is something I 244 00:10:55,704 --> 00:10:58,384 Speaker 1: know about because it's very expensive and very exclusive, and 245 00:10:58,584 --> 00:11:02,344 Speaker 1: mostly celebrities go there for this very intense trainings, like 246 00:11:02,344 --> 00:11:04,584 Speaker 1: a Busy Phillips or an Oliver Hudson or I think 247 00:11:04,664 --> 00:11:07,144 Speaker 1: Justin Bieber went there as well, and they all come out. 248 00:11:07,144 --> 00:11:09,344 Speaker 1: I think you'd have to like sell your home and 249 00:11:09,384 --> 00:11:13,224 Speaker 1: your car to get in there for a week. But 250 00:11:13,304 --> 00:11:15,744 Speaker 1: they also completely changed their lives. So she did that, 251 00:11:15,784 --> 00:11:18,024 Speaker 1: and then she was ready to date Orlando Bloom and 252 00:11:18,064 --> 00:11:20,424 Speaker 1: then they got back together, but he had a barrier up, apparently, 253 00:11:20,504 --> 00:11:22,184 Speaker 1: and she had to prove that she'd done the work 254 00:11:22,224 --> 00:11:23,984 Speaker 1: by going to Hoffman to win him back. 255 00:11:24,344 --> 00:11:27,424 Speaker 2: Oh my god, so weird. It's giving scientology. I know 256 00:11:27,584 --> 00:11:30,144 Speaker 2: what I found really interesting when she talked about her 257 00:11:30,304 --> 00:11:34,064 Speaker 2: relationship with Orlando Bloom was the fact that she was 258 00:11:34,104 --> 00:11:37,344 Speaker 2: saying in previous relationships, she felt like she had to 259 00:11:37,464 --> 00:11:41,104 Speaker 2: kind of push down how successful she really was to 260 00:11:41,104 --> 00:11:43,744 Speaker 2: make them feel okay about being with her. Yeah, which 261 00:11:43,784 --> 00:11:46,464 Speaker 2: is like something that every woman had experienced with, especially 262 00:11:46,504 --> 00:11:48,784 Speaker 2: a woman who's like so passionate about her career, Like 263 00:11:48,784 --> 00:11:52,544 Speaker 2: you constantly have to make yourself feel smaller so the man, 264 00:11:52,664 --> 00:11:55,224 Speaker 2: let's say, the man you're dating, doesn't feel like weird 265 00:11:55,264 --> 00:11:58,784 Speaker 2: about it. And it reminded me of that viral clip 266 00:11:58,864 --> 00:12:02,784 Speaker 2: from her documentary where she's about to step on stage 267 00:12:02,824 --> 00:12:06,024 Speaker 2: and Russell Brand texts her and asks for a divorce, 268 00:12:06,664 --> 00:12:09,984 Speaker 2: and then she's just like so like upset, like crying 269 00:12:10,064 --> 00:12:12,624 Speaker 2: of your husbands as Fred Force, and she just gets 270 00:12:12,664 --> 00:12:14,384 Speaker 2: on stage, puts on a smile and just does the 271 00:12:14,424 --> 00:12:15,024 Speaker 2: whole concert. 272 00:12:15,144 --> 00:12:17,744 Speaker 1: Yeah. That scene us forever burnt into my brain and 273 00:12:17,784 --> 00:12:18,304 Speaker 1: I'm just so. 274 00:12:18,664 --> 00:12:21,064 Speaker 2: Telling right because, like she says in the podcast, like 275 00:12:21,344 --> 00:12:24,344 Speaker 2: my ex partners never came to my concerts, they supported 276 00:12:24,344 --> 00:12:26,784 Speaker 2: my business, And I'm like that is like the number 277 00:12:26,944 --> 00:12:28,984 Speaker 2: like they just didn't support her, Yeah, and they show 278 00:12:28,984 --> 00:12:30,224 Speaker 2: that they weren't imagine having. 279 00:12:30,024 --> 00:12:32,504 Speaker 1: All those sold out steady Marinas all around the world 280 00:12:32,584 --> 00:12:35,344 Speaker 1: and your partner or husband never comes to one of them. 281 00:12:35,424 --> 00:12:37,544 Speaker 2: I was like, oh, you're not that famous, right, Yeah, 282 00:12:37,824 --> 00:12:38,624 Speaker 2: Like no, I kind of am. 283 00:12:38,744 --> 00:12:40,584 Speaker 1: I know again, that's why I mean, I know there's 284 00:12:40,624 --> 00:12:42,944 Speaker 1: been some kind of missteps with Katy Perry, which she 285 00:12:43,024 --> 00:12:44,744 Speaker 1: kind of even talked about here about one of her 286 00:12:44,744 --> 00:12:47,024 Speaker 1: albums not doing very well and how she kind of 287 00:12:47,064 --> 00:12:49,304 Speaker 1: went too far in the other direction. There was also 288 00:12:49,344 --> 00:12:51,344 Speaker 1: the whole sewing the nuns thing for the home and 289 00:12:51,384 --> 00:12:53,464 Speaker 1: then cursing her in court, like you know, we must 290 00:12:53,544 --> 00:12:56,144 Speaker 1: remember history. But at the same time, I was thinking. 291 00:12:55,904 --> 00:12:57,504 Speaker 2: That I don't forget the other Katy Perry. 292 00:12:57,624 --> 00:12:59,624 Speaker 1: Oh and the Australian Katy Perry that she sued for 293 00:12:59,664 --> 00:13:00,064 Speaker 1: her label. 294 00:13:00,144 --> 00:13:00,304 Speaker 2: Yeah. 295 00:13:00,344 --> 00:13:02,784 Speaker 1: Yeah, look, she's there's been some successes and there's been 296 00:13:02,824 --> 00:13:04,784 Speaker 1: some missteps with her. I think we can both say. 297 00:13:04,864 --> 00:13:07,064 Speaker 1: But I was also thinking of that image of her 298 00:13:07,184 --> 00:13:09,664 Speaker 1: like sobbing and then going up onto stage, and how 299 00:13:09,824 --> 00:13:13,624 Speaker 1: like for our generation that's become such a kind of thing. 300 00:13:13,664 --> 00:13:15,544 Speaker 1: It's like a big legacy of hers that way. 301 00:13:15,424 --> 00:13:17,704 Speaker 2: And it's also so real because it's like, if she 302 00:13:17,784 --> 00:13:19,984 Speaker 2: can do that, then I can get over this boy 303 00:13:20,024 --> 00:13:21,064 Speaker 2: who didn't text me about it. 304 00:13:21,184 --> 00:13:23,304 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. I know it's very wish for film on 305 00:13:23,464 --> 00:13:25,304 Speaker 1: our part, but that's what celebrities are there, and she's 306 00:13:25,344 --> 00:13:25,984 Speaker 1: leant into it. 307 00:13:26,104 --> 00:13:28,824 Speaker 2: Yeah, like she's leant into the whole, like alpha woman, 308 00:13:28,864 --> 00:13:31,144 Speaker 2: which she even refers to herself as well. 309 00:13:31,264 --> 00:13:32,784 Speaker 1: Yeah, and on that alpha woman thing, the only thing 310 00:13:32,824 --> 00:13:34,744 Speaker 1: I thought maybe didn't ring a bit true is they 311 00:13:34,744 --> 00:13:37,104 Speaker 1: were talking about like her build up to her career 312 00:13:37,104 --> 00:13:39,784 Speaker 1: and having this huge breakout song in her early twenties, 313 00:13:40,144 --> 00:13:42,984 Speaker 1: and she was talking about the fact that she really 314 00:13:43,024 --> 00:13:45,584 Speaker 1: never wanted the fame. She just wanted her music to 315 00:13:46,784 --> 00:13:48,824 Speaker 1: I hate especially for her, because I was like, that's 316 00:13:48,904 --> 00:13:52,144 Speaker 1: just not true, Catherine Hudson, to use your real name 317 00:13:52,184 --> 00:13:54,424 Speaker 1: that you changed to a stage name to be more famous. 318 00:13:54,784 --> 00:13:57,264 Speaker 1: Like I think because also of the documentary and because 319 00:13:57,264 --> 00:13:59,184 Speaker 1: of how much access we've had to her life over 320 00:13:59,184 --> 00:14:00,944 Speaker 1: the years, we know that for a long time she 321 00:14:00,984 --> 00:14:03,584 Speaker 1: tried to be a gospel singer. It didn't quite work. 322 00:14:03,664 --> 00:14:06,984 Speaker 1: There's scenes in her documentary which if anyone hasn't watched it, 323 00:14:06,984 --> 00:14:09,784 Speaker 1: her documentary is fantastic, and I think it's really interesting 324 00:14:09,784 --> 00:14:11,784 Speaker 1: that she's in it. The record label at some point. 325 00:14:12,064 --> 00:14:13,504 Speaker 1: Maybe I remember this because I feel it in my 326 00:14:13,544 --> 00:14:15,264 Speaker 1: bones of like when you're trying to write an article 327 00:14:15,304 --> 00:14:17,024 Speaker 1: and everyone's like, but it needs a clicky headline or 328 00:14:17,024 --> 00:14:19,064 Speaker 1: a hook, and you're like, can't someone just read a 329 00:14:19,104 --> 00:14:21,544 Speaker 1: good article? And she says the same thing with her songs, 330 00:14:21,544 --> 00:14:24,304 Speaker 1: because they were just like the none of these songs 331 00:14:24,344 --> 00:14:26,504 Speaker 1: are going to get radio play. They all need a hook, 332 00:14:26,544 --> 00:14:29,864 Speaker 1: they need something more interesting. And she's like, what happened 333 00:14:29,904 --> 00:14:32,504 Speaker 1: to listening to a song because it's a good song 334 00:14:32,584 --> 00:14:34,664 Speaker 1: without having a gimmick, And they were like, well, you 335 00:14:34,664 --> 00:14:35,944 Speaker 1: can make a good song, but it's just going to 336 00:14:35,984 --> 00:14:37,584 Speaker 1: sit in that cabinet there and no one's ever going 337 00:14:37,624 --> 00:14:40,544 Speaker 1: to see it. And that's when she transformed into Katie Perry. 338 00:14:40,624 --> 00:14:43,424 Speaker 1: Changed her name, changed her look, changed The music that 339 00:14:43,504 --> 00:14:45,584 Speaker 1: she put out went viral with I Kissed a Girl 340 00:14:45,624 --> 00:14:47,704 Speaker 1: because that was like gimmicky. It's a great song, but 341 00:14:47,744 --> 00:14:50,584 Speaker 1: it's like gimmicky. That's why we all remembered it. And 342 00:14:50,664 --> 00:14:53,384 Speaker 1: so I feel like saying, there's no shame in wanting 343 00:14:53,424 --> 00:14:56,104 Speaker 1: to be famous and changing the music that you're making, 344 00:14:56,344 --> 00:14:57,144 Speaker 1: changing her you look. 345 00:14:57,144 --> 00:14:59,904 Speaker 2: Such an aless celebrity, Like yeah, time to say, yeah, 346 00:15:00,024 --> 00:15:01,864 Speaker 2: I want to be famous, You to gonna care? 347 00:15:02,224 --> 00:15:04,184 Speaker 1: Yeah, I understand, like she wouldn't have done anything at 348 00:15:04,184 --> 00:15:06,104 Speaker 1: all costs to be famous, Like I think maybe that's 349 00:15:06,144 --> 00:15:08,424 Speaker 1: what she's saying, but it's like, don't pretend that you 350 00:15:08,464 --> 00:15:10,144 Speaker 1: don't have a business plan around your career and your 351 00:15:10,704 --> 00:15:13,264 Speaker 1: and it was to stell out these stadiums because you 352 00:15:13,304 --> 00:15:15,944 Speaker 1: want to play in front of thousands of people. That's fine, 353 00:15:16,384 --> 00:15:19,144 Speaker 1: that's fine to say. It makes you even more I 354 00:15:19,144 --> 00:15:22,344 Speaker 1: think impressive that this wasn't an accident. You planned this. 355 00:15:24,784 --> 00:15:27,464 Speaker 2: So we need to talk about I guess the one 356 00:15:27,584 --> 00:15:30,064 Speaker 2: part of the interview that's literally right at the end, 357 00:15:30,104 --> 00:15:32,544 Speaker 2: like it's the last two minutes of the entire interview, 358 00:15:32,824 --> 00:15:35,104 Speaker 2: and it's the only part that's been picked up by 359 00:15:35,264 --> 00:15:40,504 Speaker 2: media outlets circulating everywhere online. And Alex asked Katy Perry 360 00:15:40,544 --> 00:15:44,064 Speaker 2: why she chose to collaborate with doctor Luke for some 361 00:15:44,144 --> 00:15:49,264 Speaker 2: of her songs. So, doctor Luke kesha, what're quite confused about? 362 00:15:49,264 --> 00:15:51,384 Speaker 2: This whole Thing's okay? I mean, yeah, there's a lot 363 00:15:51,424 --> 00:15:53,184 Speaker 2: here in and we will link O. I just know 364 00:15:53,264 --> 00:15:55,904 Speaker 2: he's bad, allegedly bad, but also most peop would say 365 00:15:55,904 --> 00:15:57,824 Speaker 2: just plain bad. Yeah, we'll link our past episode about 366 00:15:57,824 --> 00:15:59,744 Speaker 2: this because we went to more detail but as a 367 00:15:59,824 --> 00:16:00,864 Speaker 2: top line, Katy. 368 00:16:00,704 --> 00:16:03,344 Speaker 1: Perry had worked with doctor Luke. Like on past records, 369 00:16:03,344 --> 00:16:05,784 Speaker 1: they have a long collaboration history together. But in the 370 00:16:05,864 --> 00:16:08,704 Speaker 1: last couple of years a lot of different accusations against 371 00:16:08,744 --> 00:16:11,944 Speaker 1: him have come out, most Kesha, who he worked with. 372 00:16:12,064 --> 00:16:14,584 Speaker 1: She made a lot of allegations around sexual assault that 373 00:16:14,624 --> 00:16:17,544 Speaker 1: went to court. There was a defamation case against her. 374 00:16:17,944 --> 00:16:20,744 Speaker 1: At one point she said that he had raped Katy Perry, 375 00:16:20,744 --> 00:16:22,624 Speaker 1: and Katy Perry had to go into court and say 376 00:16:22,704 --> 00:16:25,624 Speaker 1: that wasn't true. And there were allegations around him blocking 377 00:16:25,704 --> 00:16:30,264 Speaker 1: Kesher from releasing music. It's really murky and messy, but it. 378 00:16:30,224 --> 00:16:32,544 Speaker 2: Was like a lot of like suing and then counter 379 00:16:32,624 --> 00:16:34,544 Speaker 2: sewing and then they settled before trial. 380 00:16:34,784 --> 00:16:37,264 Speaker 1: Yes, again, as we've said before, there's a lot of 381 00:16:37,304 --> 00:16:40,704 Speaker 1: gray in these kind of circumstances because often like something 382 00:16:40,744 --> 00:16:43,304 Speaker 1: not going to court means not that it didn't happen, 383 00:16:43,384 --> 00:16:45,944 Speaker 1: it just means that there wasn't enough evidence there to convict. 384 00:16:45,984 --> 00:16:49,224 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of information here and a lot 385 00:16:49,264 --> 00:16:52,744 Speaker 1: of people who have still made allegations against doctor Luke, 386 00:16:52,824 --> 00:16:55,264 Speaker 1: and he hasn't been convicted, but there are allegations out 387 00:16:55,264 --> 00:16:56,984 Speaker 1: there and a lot of people think that he shouldn't 388 00:16:56,984 --> 00:16:59,104 Speaker 1: have this place in the music industry and people shouldn't 389 00:16:59,144 --> 00:17:01,424 Speaker 1: be working with him, And Kesh has been a really 390 00:17:01,624 --> 00:17:04,544 Speaker 1: outspoken advocate about how much her life and her career 391 00:17:04,624 --> 00:17:08,064 Speaker 1: was derailed by him. So in saying that when it 392 00:17:08,144 --> 00:17:10,584 Speaker 1: came out that Katy Perry was doing this big album 393 00:17:10,744 --> 00:17:13,344 Speaker 1: that was meant to be about empowerment, and especially with 394 00:17:13,384 --> 00:17:15,384 Speaker 1: the song Woman's World, which was the first single that 395 00:17:15,424 --> 00:17:17,864 Speaker 1: came out, the fact that, yeah, the fact that doctor 396 00:17:17,944 --> 00:17:20,704 Speaker 1: Luke's name was on there really upset a lot of people, 397 00:17:20,904 --> 00:17:23,984 Speaker 1: very rightfully, so, I think, and it's not something that 398 00:17:24,024 --> 00:17:25,864 Speaker 1: she's really spoken on, and I think the way it 399 00:17:25,904 --> 00:17:29,504 Speaker 1: was done in this interview is so interesting because you 400 00:17:29,584 --> 00:17:33,224 Speaker 1: can just tell that the rest of the conversation feels 401 00:17:33,344 --> 00:17:36,184 Speaker 1: very organic and is flowing. And I totally understand from 402 00:17:36,224 --> 00:17:39,104 Speaker 1: an interviewer perspective how Alex Cooper is setting up all 403 00:17:39,144 --> 00:17:42,464 Speaker 1: these questions because you want the person you're interviewing to 404 00:17:42,704 --> 00:17:44,824 Speaker 1: feel very comfortable and to tell you things, and to 405 00:17:44,904 --> 00:17:46,304 Speaker 1: do that, you have to talk to them in a 406 00:17:46,304 --> 00:17:48,744 Speaker 1: certain way where you kind of do have to build 407 00:17:48,784 --> 00:17:51,264 Speaker 1: them up almost a little bit, because this is not 408 00:17:51,304 --> 00:17:53,784 Speaker 1: the kind of interview where you can interrogate someone that's 409 00:17:53,824 --> 00:17:56,104 Speaker 1: not going to get you any kind of answers, and 410 00:17:56,144 --> 00:17:58,504 Speaker 1: so almost every question about the interview is like you've 411 00:17:58,544 --> 00:18:01,064 Speaker 1: done this, and women love you for this and that, 412 00:18:01,104 --> 00:18:03,624 Speaker 1: and then there's this moment and it's like the tone changes. 413 00:18:03,704 --> 00:18:06,424 Speaker 1: And why the tone changes is that obviously Alex Cooper 414 00:18:06,424 --> 00:18:09,424 Speaker 1: and her team have had a conversation with Katie Perry's 415 00:18:09,424 --> 00:18:12,024 Speaker 1: team prior to the to You and said, potentially we 416 00:18:12,064 --> 00:18:14,064 Speaker 1: won't ask her about the backlash to this, this and this, 417 00:18:14,264 --> 00:18:16,184 Speaker 1: but the doctor Luke thing. I cannot have her on 418 00:18:16,224 --> 00:18:19,424 Speaker 1: this podcast and not ask her about it. So they 419 00:18:19,424 --> 00:18:21,264 Speaker 1: would have been in agreement in place that we talk 420 00:18:21,304 --> 00:18:24,144 Speaker 1: about everything else. First. It's light, it's fun, it's interesting, 421 00:18:24,624 --> 00:18:27,064 Speaker 1: and at the end I'm going to ask her this question. 422 00:18:27,104 --> 00:18:29,384 Speaker 1: I'm going to phrase it this way, and off the 423 00:18:29,384 --> 00:18:31,584 Speaker 1: back that you can tell that Katy Perry has a 424 00:18:31,744 --> 00:18:33,024 Speaker 1: very rehearsed. 425 00:18:32,904 --> 00:18:36,024 Speaker 2: Both of them sound very rehearsed, Like Alex has memorized 426 00:18:36,064 --> 00:18:38,944 Speaker 2: I question yes, and then Katie has memorized. 427 00:18:38,544 --> 00:18:42,184 Speaker 1: To yes, and like it's also hard because I think 428 00:18:42,224 --> 00:18:44,184 Speaker 1: that it's something she should have to speak on quite 429 00:18:44,184 --> 00:18:45,944 Speaker 1: a bit, because you know, it's women out there who 430 00:18:45,944 --> 00:18:47,864 Speaker 1: want to buy her album. They're the ones who feel 431 00:18:47,904 --> 00:18:49,464 Speaker 1: betrayed by this, and they think if you're at that 432 00:18:49,584 --> 00:18:51,464 Speaker 1: level of the public, you should have to speak on it. 433 00:18:51,784 --> 00:18:53,664 Speaker 1: But I think what she was saying too about the 434 00:18:53,704 --> 00:18:56,104 Speaker 1: fact that she's like, this is my story, it's my album. 435 00:18:56,384 --> 00:18:58,744 Speaker 1: I've got a lot of different collaborators on it, but 436 00:18:58,824 --> 00:19:00,664 Speaker 1: it's what I'm saying at the end of the day. 437 00:19:00,984 --> 00:19:02,904 Speaker 1: But then I feel like she pivoted too much to 438 00:19:02,944 --> 00:19:05,184 Speaker 1: being like I'm a mother now, Like I was. 439 00:19:05,224 --> 00:19:08,504 Speaker 2: So confused the answer, Like Alex asked her why she 440 00:19:08,624 --> 00:19:11,344 Speaker 2: chose to work with doctor Luke and then it was 441 00:19:11,384 --> 00:19:13,024 Speaker 2: a bit of a wish was she answer? And then 442 00:19:13,024 --> 00:19:15,144 Speaker 2: she's like, and I created a human And I'm like, 443 00:19:15,184 --> 00:19:16,664 Speaker 2: what I think what. 444 00:19:16,624 --> 00:19:18,224 Speaker 1: She was trying to say is like because she's talking 445 00:19:18,304 --> 00:19:20,504 Speaker 1: at songs on it being about love and acceptance and 446 00:19:20,984 --> 00:19:23,104 Speaker 1: she was really alone through her career and now with 447 00:19:23,144 --> 00:19:25,184 Speaker 1: her daughter. I also like that she said like, your 448 00:19:25,344 --> 00:19:27,264 Speaker 1: family can be a soulmate. She's like, I think my 449 00:19:27,344 --> 00:19:29,824 Speaker 1: daughter's actually my soulmate, not Orlando, which I thought was 450 00:19:29,824 --> 00:19:31,624 Speaker 1: really sweet. And then she was like, you know, your 451 00:19:31,624 --> 00:19:34,064 Speaker 1: soulmate can be your sister, it can be your daughter, 452 00:19:34,144 --> 00:19:34,984 Speaker 1: it can be, you know. 453 00:19:34,904 --> 00:19:36,344 Speaker 2: I don't know her daughter's gonna grab and be like. 454 00:19:36,344 --> 00:19:41,584 Speaker 1: Ill, Daisy Dove, Daisy Duve Bloom is her mum's soulmate, 455 00:19:41,664 --> 00:19:44,184 Speaker 1: and so like that's interesting, and I like what you're saying. 456 00:19:44,224 --> 00:19:46,704 Speaker 1: I don't think it's the answer to this particular question, 457 00:19:47,184 --> 00:19:49,144 Speaker 1: but I also just know that like that would have 458 00:19:49,184 --> 00:19:52,304 Speaker 1: been so set up and it's so curated, and the 459 00:19:52,384 --> 00:19:54,464 Speaker 1: tone changes completely and I don't. 460 00:19:54,304 --> 00:19:55,944 Speaker 2: Else wouldn't have been allowed to pry. 461 00:19:55,944 --> 00:19:58,424 Speaker 1: No, you can't. And she ends it completely after that, 462 00:19:58,704 --> 00:20:00,504 Speaker 1: And like I've been that position too, where like you've 463 00:20:00,504 --> 00:20:03,144 Speaker 1: had to go back and forth with a pr over, 464 00:20:03,264 --> 00:20:06,464 Speaker 1: like I have to ask them about this, and the 465 00:20:06,504 --> 00:20:08,304 Speaker 1: best way to do it is to say people are 466 00:20:08,304 --> 00:20:10,744 Speaker 1: saying or other women are saying, because then you can 467 00:20:10,784 --> 00:20:12,384 Speaker 1: say and which it was like an it was a 468 00:20:12,504 --> 00:20:15,624 Speaker 1: huge kind of conversation that wasn't just in her fandom, 469 00:20:15,664 --> 00:20:17,544 Speaker 1: that was like all over the world. So it's fair 470 00:20:17,544 --> 00:20:19,744 Speaker 1: to bring up. But yeah, I don't think it's gonna 471 00:20:19,784 --> 00:20:23,424 Speaker 1: leave fans very satisfied. And I think it's very telling 472 00:20:23,504 --> 00:20:25,984 Speaker 1: that that's the one thing that's making headlines from this 473 00:20:26,064 --> 00:20:28,064 Speaker 1: interview today when I actually think there are lots of 474 00:20:28,784 --> 00:20:32,224 Speaker 1: interesting moments that deserve attention until that kind of moment. 475 00:20:32,264 --> 00:20:34,024 Speaker 1: I think she comes off great in this interview. 476 00:20:34,384 --> 00:20:36,304 Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like she comes off a bit cringey. 477 00:20:36,664 --> 00:20:39,224 Speaker 1: Oh okay, always seeing it from two different sides, but okay, 478 00:20:39,424 --> 00:20:39,944 Speaker 1: it's like. 479 00:20:40,264 --> 00:20:44,064 Speaker 2: Not bad, yes, But I think ending it on doctor Luke, 480 00:20:44,424 --> 00:20:46,584 Speaker 2: even though like that is the one thing that media 481 00:20:46,584 --> 00:20:48,904 Speaker 2: outlets are talking about, I think without all of that noise, 482 00:20:49,344 --> 00:20:51,544 Speaker 2: it's still the one thing that's left in my head because. 483 00:20:51,304 --> 00:20:53,184 Speaker 1: It's a last thing. And when if Katie and her 484 00:20:53,224 --> 00:20:55,184 Speaker 1: team had that in their heads, because technically she ends 485 00:20:55,224 --> 00:20:57,464 Speaker 1: it on talking Alex Cooper up, She's like, you know, 486 00:20:57,504 --> 00:20:59,304 Speaker 1: you're a young woman who's built an empire and you've 487 00:20:59,304 --> 00:21:00,144 Speaker 1: got a lot of attention. 488 00:21:00,384 --> 00:21:01,744 Speaker 2: Cast listener, I'm done. 489 00:21:01,544 --> 00:21:02,144 Speaker 1: You're out of there. 490 00:21:02,544 --> 00:21:05,104 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. And I mean like sometimes when we 491 00:21:05,144 --> 00:21:07,064 Speaker 2: do the end bits of a podcast, like people are 492 00:21:07,064 --> 00:21:07,944 Speaker 2: already like I've got my. 493 00:21:07,944 --> 00:21:10,784 Speaker 1: Fixed no, I totally understand that a lot of people 494 00:21:10,784 --> 00:21:12,424 Speaker 1: would have been like, that's the juicy stuff done. But 495 00:21:12,504 --> 00:21:14,544 Speaker 1: I just think like in her head, she's ending, and 496 00:21:14,624 --> 00:21:17,344 Speaker 1: she's telling us people to like push forward, don't dim. 497 00:21:17,104 --> 00:21:19,224 Speaker 2: Your life about our for female, keep your old. 498 00:21:19,024 --> 00:21:20,944 Speaker 1: Friends with you at all times, keep people who say 499 00:21:20,984 --> 00:21:22,624 Speaker 1: no to you with you. I think it was meant 500 00:21:22,624 --> 00:21:25,984 Speaker 1: to end on a girl Boss energy note, which as 501 00:21:26,024 --> 00:21:27,864 Speaker 1: two women who have their own businesses, I kind of get. 502 00:21:27,904 --> 00:21:29,664 Speaker 1: But I think a lot of people did tune out 503 00:21:29,744 --> 00:21:32,064 Speaker 1: after the Doctor Luke stuff, and so for them, it's 504 00:21:32,184 --> 00:21:34,384 Speaker 1: ending on a slightly bad note. 505 00:21:34,664 --> 00:21:36,984 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to the spill today. 506 00:21:37,024 --> 00:21:39,344 Speaker 2: If you haven't caught up on your episodes, I was 507 00:21:39,384 --> 00:21:41,584 Speaker 2: away last week, so I'm also on my homework just 508 00:21:41,584 --> 00:21:43,184 Speaker 2: to catch up on the episodes when I was away 509 00:21:43,224 --> 00:21:46,504 Speaker 2: for Laura Rounnick, You and Ash did an episode on Friday, 510 00:21:46,544 --> 00:21:47,904 Speaker 2: which is really annoying to me because I was on 511 00:21:47,904 --> 00:21:50,624 Speaker 2: my favorite episode on the TV shows that destroyed you. 512 00:21:50,864 --> 00:21:53,384 Speaker 1: Yes, because they've canceled ahead of their time, and look, 513 00:21:53,424 --> 00:21:56,744 Speaker 1: things get bleak, things get dramatic things, there's laughter, there's tears. 514 00:21:56,904 --> 00:21:59,504 Speaker 1: It's a classic us getting to emotionally for TV shows. 515 00:21:59,504 --> 00:22:00,264 Speaker 1: So that's all we're here for. 516 00:22:00,344 --> 00:22:02,304 Speaker 2: That's what we're here for. We will link that episode 517 00:22:02,344 --> 00:22:04,024 Speaker 2: in our show notes and we will see you back 518 00:22:04,064 --> 00:22:06,544 Speaker 2: here in your podcast feed at three pm tomorrow. Bye 519 00:22:06,704 --> 00:22:12,304 Speaker 2: byell It Clean It