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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on Hello, Hello, and welcome to Mom and Mia.

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Speaker 1: Out loud. It's what women are actually talking about on Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: the Seat of August. My name is Holly Wayne Wright.

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Speaker 2: I'm Jesse Stevens, and.

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Speaker 3: I'm Amelia Last.

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Speaker 1: Just a quick note out louders, if you listen to

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Speaker 1: our lovely voices and sometimes you think you know what

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Speaker 1: I'd like to see. I'd like to see those women

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Speaker 1: have these fascinating conversations. I tune in for every.

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Speaker 2: I don't think anyone's ever asked to see our faces

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Speaker 2: back alas they are available.

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Speaker 1: They have to see them anyway. We now have our

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Speaker 1: entire episodes up on YouTube, so the whole show from

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Speaker 1: start to finish, with few like inserts to show you

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Speaker 1: the things we're talking about. And if you find YouTube

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Speaker 1: a confusing place, as some of us do, there is

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Speaker 1: always a link in our show notes to where you

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Speaker 1: can go and watch that if you want to. Now,

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Speaker 1: don't worry, We're still in all your podcast apps and

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Speaker 1: all the usual places. But if you feel the need a.

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Speaker 2: Lot of people see our social clips and say, can

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Speaker 2: I watch the whole thing?

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Speaker 3: Yes? Is that true? Or is that like when influencers

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Speaker 3: say a lot of people are asking a lot of.

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Speaker 2: People are asking, and actually, here's my discot code.

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Speaker 3: That is true.

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Speaker 2: I have seen I've seen the It's probably so they

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Speaker 2: can hate watch it, but it is.

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Speaker 3: It is there.

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Speaker 1: So follow the link in the show notes and you

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Speaker 1: will watch the whole show if you want to. What

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Speaker 1: you will see us talking about today.

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Speaker 3: Why don't women when I have babies anymore?

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Speaker 2: Plus Brooklyn Beckham and Nicola Peltz Beckham's vow renewal and

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Speaker 2: how their family drama now involves yachts in santra Pe.

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Speaker 1: Yes, indeed it must be terrible, must be terrible to

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Speaker 1: have to play out your family dramas on magga yachts

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Speaker 1: and sandtrape. But anyway, are you ready to go into

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Speaker 1: the dark? Five Days in the Cave is the new

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Speaker 1: spiritual wellness trend?

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Speaker 3: Join us?

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Speaker 1: But first, Jesse Stevens.

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Speaker 2: Walking backwards is good for your health and we should

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Speaker 2: all be doing it.

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Speaker 1: I've heard this before. Why why why?

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Speaker 2: A report by BBC journalist. Did you hear me giggling

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Speaker 2: at my desk today because yes, little tot was about okay.

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Speaker 2: So the journalist named Melissa Hog and Boom has found

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Speaker 2: that walking backwards can help relieve back pain, arthritis, knee issues.

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Speaker 2: Some studies have said it improves memory, reaction time, and

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Speaker 2: problem solving. Doing so for just ten to fifteen minutes

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Speaker 2: a day can increase hamstring flexibility and strengthen back muscles,

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Speaker 2: which all sounds great. Why was Jesse laughing Because I

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Speaker 2: feel like the researchers aren't acknowledging that when you walk

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Speaker 2: backwards you run into people. And I kept imagining all

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Speaker 2: of it's going for like a fifteen minute walk on

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Speaker 2: our lunch break, because the walking backwards is good for

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Speaker 2: us around the city. And the report starts with Hog

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Speaker 2: and Boom saying, have you ever given much thought to

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Speaker 2: why we walk the way we do? And I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: so we can see where we're going.

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Speaker 1: We get from here to there, and I want to

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Speaker 1: see there and I don't want to bump into twenty

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Speaker 1: five people on my way back.

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Speaker 2: Exactly when we were hunters and we had to go

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Speaker 2: and get our food, is like we would have been

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Speaker 2: eaten by a lion or tripped on a rock and

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Speaker 2: hit our head before we got to the food. Like,

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Speaker 2: walking forward is really important now, miss really full on?

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Speaker 2: Do we see any other problems with walking backwards or

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Speaker 2: are you guys going to do?

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Speaker 3: Is this kind of like when you close your eyes,

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Speaker 3: it's so much harder to balance on one leg. Maybe

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Speaker 3: it's that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that it activates different parts in the rain,

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Speaker 2: which is definitely good. And a lot of athletes do it,

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Speaker 2: like when they're warming up. You know how they run back, Yes, and.

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Speaker 1: You see that a lot, but I'm just imagining you

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Speaker 1: see them on the track like running running players and

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Speaker 1: starting back. But I'm just imagining the main character Energy

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Speaker 1: evolved to be the only person in the park who's

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Speaker 1: walking backwards. When I go on my morning walk and

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Speaker 1: I do a loop of a park or I walk

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Speaker 1: along the beach, the person who's walking backwards that's massively.

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Speaker 3: It is also going to be wearing the shoes that

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Speaker 3: have the toes on them.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm sorry, but walking backwards it's anti social.

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Speaker 2: You're going to run into people. It's just might be

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Speaker 2: great for your brain, but it's not how we were designed.

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Speaker 3: I have something else that the government wants you to

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Speaker 3: be worried about. Okay, I know you're delighted to hear

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Speaker 3: that Australia's birth rate has plummeted to its lowest level

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Speaker 3: in seventeen years. Back in two thousand and four, the

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Speaker 3: then Treasurer Peter Costello urged Australians to have more babies.

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Speaker 3: He famously said you need to have one for mum,

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Speaker 3: one for dad and one for the country. And now

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Speaker 3: new ABS stats put their birth rate really low. They

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Speaker 3: put it at one point five children per women. One

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Speaker 3: point five.

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Speaker 2: Oh, okay, despite our efforts in the last seventeen years,

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Speaker 2: we've tried to contribute and we've just not been doing enough.

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Speaker 3: It needs to be two point one. That's what you

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Speaker 3: need to have. What's called replacement level to keep the

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Speaker 3: population going. By the way, that doesn't include immigration, but

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Speaker 3: that is what it's called the replacement level. It hasn't

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Speaker 3: been there since two thousand and eight. Now, I want

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Speaker 3: to congratulate Western Australia and Tasmania. They have been doing

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Speaker 3: their part so well done. Every other state not so much.

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Speaker 3: But don't worry because John Howard has entered the chat.

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Speaker 3: Remember John Howard, our Prime minister for many years. He's

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Speaker 3: got my dear, he is urging because there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of male politicians urging people in this story. He is

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Speaker 3: urging Treasurer Gen Charmers to reintroduce the baby bonus. This

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Speaker 3: was a scheme that Howard introduced back in two thousand

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Speaker 3: and four, and it gave parents an initial sum of

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Speaker 3: three thousand dollars per child, and then that rose to

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Speaker 3: five thousand over time, and by some accounts, the scheme

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Speaker 3: did work pretty well. By two thousand and eight, women

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Speaker 3: were having two babies per woman as opposed to the

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Speaker 3: current one and a half, which we can all agree

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Speaker 3: half a baby is not good. But a lot of

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Speaker 3: people are pretty skeptical about the idea of reintroducing it

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Speaker 3: these days. For instance, the National's leader David Little Proud

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Speaker 3: he is not urging a baby bonus. He says that

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Speaker 3: three thousand dollars would not be enough to cover the

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Speaker 3: cost of living. And it's true that search shows that

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Speaker 3: more than half of eighteen to thirty four year olds

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Speaker 3: say that they're delaying starting a family because of cost

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Speaker 3: of living. And if you delay having children, you likely

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Speaker 3: have fewer of them. So what I wanted to talk

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Speaker 3: about today is what will it take for women to

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Speaker 3: do their part and have children. These male politicians keep urging,

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Speaker 3: but is the baby bonus the way to do it?

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Speaker 3: Just to throw a stat at you about the insignificance

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Speaker 3: of this baby bonus and how much it costs to

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Speaker 3: have a child. A Choosy study from twenty twenty three

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Speaker 3: showed that the average cost of raising a child is

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Speaker 3: twelve eight hundred dollars a year. Now I did the

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Speaker 3: maths for you. That's two hundred and thirty thousand dollars

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Speaker 3: over eighteen years. It's nearly a quarter of a million,

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Speaker 3: which makes three thousand look kind of not not enough, Jesse,

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Speaker 3: Do Australian women need more help having children or raising children? Discuss?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting, right because a lot of people then

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Speaker 2: come up with ideas and say, well, if you subsidize childcare,

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Speaker 2: if housing was more affordable, if parental leave was longer,

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Speaker 2: there are all of these policies that people sort of

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Speaker 2: agitate towards. But South Korea is the example that everyone

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Speaker 2: points to, which is I believe they have the lowest

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Speaker 2: birth rate of pretty much anywhere in the world.

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Speaker 3: Their birth rate is below one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's become and this is my theory is

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Speaker 2: that it's not just my theory. A lot of people

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Speaker 2: say this, how many children you have or if you

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Speaker 2: have them at all, is incredibly contagious. It depends on

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Speaker 2: what your community has sort of normalized. If no one's

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Speaker 2: having babies and you look around and go, I guess

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Speaker 2: we're not having babies.

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Speaker 3: Children themselves are also contagious. Incidentally, they often have a

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Speaker 3: lot of illnesses.

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Speaker 1: They do, very many reasons. It's in the no column.

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Speaker 2: I saw something the other day, completely unverified, but I

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Speaker 2: should say it on a podcast. It said something like,

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Speaker 2: if you have two kids, then you are sick fifty

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Speaker 2: of the year. That was the suggestion. Yeah, and then

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Speaker 2: it just goes up and up. Anyway, in South Korea,

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Speaker 2: they've done all of the things. The housing market, they've

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Speaker 2: tried to make that more affordable. They have subsidized fertility

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Speaker 2: treatments like egg freezing and IVF. They have done the

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Speaker 2: financial incentives. They've tried to promote policies that improve work

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Speaker 2: life balance. They've done all of these, even like dating

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Speaker 2: things to try and get men and women to just

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Speaker 2: have the sex and have the babies. They've spent two

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Speaker 2: hundred and fifty billion dollars on this problem. There was

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Speaker 2: a tiny increase last year, nothing too significant, but a

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Speaker 2: lot of experts say when the birth rate decreases like this,

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Speaker 2: there is no getting it back up. And Sarah Wilson

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Speaker 2: has said this, She's written a lot about this recently,

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Speaker 2: and she says that when a population's replacement rate drops

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Speaker 2: below two, which is where Australia is right now, it

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Speaker 2: apparently never returns above it statistically.

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Speaker 3: That's what it says.

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Speaker 2: So, Holly, do you think that there's anything like incentives

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Speaker 2: or do you think that we're just.

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Speaker 1: I want to step back and understand why it's important, right.

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Speaker 1: I know that might sound really basic, but I see

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Speaker 1: everywhere at the minute lots of panic about declining birth rates.

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Speaker 1: And there are corners of the world that do not

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Speaker 1: have declining birth rates. There are some parts of Africa

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Speaker 1: that don't, there are some parts of South Asia that don't.

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Speaker 1: But the western world does, even in the you know,

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Speaker 1: the Nordic countries where lots of wonderful social supports for parents.

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Speaker 1: So everywhere does. And it's very hard in my mind

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Speaker 1: to unpick that from basically women's lives changing so drastically

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Speaker 1: in a generation. The majority of women's lives. I mean

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Speaker 1: in terms of choice generally speaking, when the female population

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Speaker 1: is more educated, are working, have more options, have more choices,

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Speaker 1: and they have control of their fertility, they will choose

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Speaker 1: to have fewer children. And that is what we're seeing everywhere.

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Speaker 1: And the reasons for that can be mirroad and some

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Speaker 1: of them are very much about age. As you mentioned already,

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Speaker 1: is that if you've delayed the start of having children,

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Speaker 1: you're just going to have fewer children. Of course, you

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Speaker 1: are right, And so I'm a bit suspicious of the

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Speaker 1: pearl clutching because there are still a lot of people

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Speaker 1: on the planet. The resources of the planet still aren't

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Speaker 1: great at keeping up with that. And I know I'm

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Speaker 1: not an expert, but I'm just like, why do we

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Speaker 1: need to make people? And I know you're going to

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Speaker 1: say looking after the old people. That's what you're going

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Speaker 1: to say to me, isn't it?

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Speaker 2: Partially?

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Speaker 1: Is that what you're going to say, No, I'm not that.

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Speaker 1: We're going to say. Are you going to say economic growth?

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Speaker 1: And I'm going to be like, well, think.

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Speaker 3: Of the taxos? Holy, I need to pull you up

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Speaker 3: on something. So it is true broadly speaking that as

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Speaker 3: countries get richer, the birth rate declines. But what I

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Speaker 3: discovered reading about this is there's a big caveat to

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Speaker 3: that trend, which is in those richer countries, the richer

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Speaker 3: women keep having babies and the poorer women stop having babies.

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Speaker 3: So we're seeing this in Australia right now. Children are

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Speaker 3: becoming almost a luxury good. Everything is so expensive that

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Speaker 3: if you can't afford eighteen thousand dollars a year and

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Speaker 3: two hundred and eighty thousand dollars over the course of

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Speaker 3: your lifetime, you're simply going to opt out of having children.

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Speaker 3: Of course, and obviously there are many reasons why women

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Speaker 3: don't have children or choose not to have children, And

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Speaker 3: so I think why argument one way to address what

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Speaker 3: you said, because I'm sympathetic to your idea that it

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Speaker 3: does feel pearl clutching and sort of scolding to say

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Speaker 3: women need to have more children. But part of it is,

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Speaker 3: don't we want to make sure that everyone who does

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Speaker 3: want to have a child, who, by the way, will

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Speaker 3: then contribute to taxes and look after all people, don't

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Speaker 3: we want to make it possible, yes, for women of

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Speaker 3: all socioeconomic stations to be able to make that choice.

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Speaker 1: One hundred percent, of course, And I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: there are lots of interesting conversations out there about whether

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Speaker 1: or not IVF should be subsidized and all these different things.

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Speaker 1: Of course I entirely agree with that, but I just

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Speaker 1: I think every time I read about aging populations and

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Speaker 1: who's going to look after the old people, I think

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Speaker 1: there are other ways to solve those problems. Age care

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Speaker 1: in particular, is going to be such a massive issue

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Speaker 1: in Western countries over the next few years. Why don't

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Speaker 1: we invest in those industries. These are jobs that probably

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Speaker 1: aren't going away, healthcare jobs, they're saying are not going away.

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Speaker 1: So why don't we make those jobs higher status, better paid,

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Speaker 1: better trained. We invest in those facils, these and make

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Speaker 1: that a more desirable thing to time with you. And

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Speaker 1: why don't we invest in the population if that's such

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Speaker 1: a problem. We all know that immigration is a solution

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Speaker 1: to that too, But you've got to grow sustainably, decentralize

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Speaker 1: the population, put the infrastructure in place. It's also if

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Speaker 1: the women have babies.

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Speaker 3: To invest in the age care and to invest in

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Speaker 3: the infrastructure you're talking about, you need taxes, yes, and

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Speaker 3: taxes come from people who are working, working, you're not

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Speaker 3: going to have the taxes.

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Speaker 1: And for sure, but right now we like Australia has money.

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Speaker 1: It's about choices of where you put it.

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Speaker 2: Your sense that there's something a bit uncomfortable about this conversation,

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Speaker 2: I think is correct, and it's because there are some

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Speaker 2: very strange bedfellows who are telling us to have more babies.

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Speaker 2: The the pronatalist there's some really uncomfortable wording, and I

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Speaker 2: think that there is a sense that some of this

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Speaker 2: pronatalist stuff is kind of inherently a bit racist, because

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Speaker 2: you go, are you telling white people to have more babies?

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Speaker 2: And then at the same time, where what are.

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Speaker 3: You talking about? So you've a multicultural society saying we

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Speaker 3: want to make it possible for women across socioeconomics, So

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Speaker 3: what statuses to have children?

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Speaker 2: What the US wants is more Americans to have babies

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Speaker 2: at the same time that they're closing their doors and

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Speaker 2: going no migration.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's true that Trump has instituted a baby bonus.

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Speaker 3: It's a very poultry eighteen hundred dollars, which is by

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Speaker 3: the way, that's an Aussie dollars, it's one thousand dollars US.

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Speaker 3: And women have understandably said to him, this is not

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Speaker 3: enough money. But I think it's a bit of a

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Speaker 3: long voter, Jawn. Can you explain more about what you

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Speaker 3: mean by that.

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Speaker 2: I think that there is a panic about what countries

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Speaker 2: are growing and what countries.

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Speaker 3: Are multi ethnic countries Jesse. Rich countries are almost by

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Speaker 3: definition multi ethnic because they open their doors to more

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Speaker 3: immigration over time.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but I feel as though that's going like with

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Speaker 2: the US exams South Korea. Yeah, yeah, No, South Korea

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Speaker 2: Japan's got the same problem, is a different one. But

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Speaker 2: Japan even has quite a monoculture right in.

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Speaker 3: Terms of neither of them are having babies, and their

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Speaker 3: governments are worried about it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and I agree with you that the panic that

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Speaker 2: people have is, yes, who's going to look after the

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Speaker 2: old people? Yes? Economics, what Sarah Wilson says is civilizational collapse.

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Speaker 2: She says it creates such chaos that, for example, in

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Speaker 2: South Korea, just things you wouldn't expect. In South Korea,

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Speaker 2: they can't find any bus drivers, like they can't, so

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Speaker 2: the bus routes change, and then who's doing cancer research?

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Speaker 3: Who?

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Speaker 2: Like, Yes, they're looking after the old people is a

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Speaker 2: big one. But there's also a lot of innovation, a

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Speaker 2: lot of new ideas comes from young people coming up,

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Speaker 2: and it becomes this top heavy. It changes the politics,

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Speaker 2: it changes everything, and I think that that really worries people.

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Speaker 2: And then I suppose the question is can you change

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Speaker 2: the birthrate? A lot of people say no, And if

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Speaker 2: you can't, then what are we going to do about it?

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Speaker 3: Yes, look, I agree that the proto natalists. I kind

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Speaker 3: of side eye them a lot too. For a slightly

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Speaker 3: different reason. There is this sense that it's interesting that

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Speaker 3: we've heard from John Howard, we've heard from Peter Costella,

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Speaker 3: we've heard from Donald Trump. It does tend to be

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Speaker 3: conservative politicians who want to throw a one time at

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Speaker 3: women and say we've solved the problem, as opposed to,

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Speaker 3: as Holly suggests, investigator, maybe more long term things.

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Speaker 2: Maybe that's why I feel like it's racist, because the

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Speaker 2: Elon Musk thing is also about what genes are worth promoting,

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Speaker 2: and so I think that's made me uncomfortable is that

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Speaker 2: he's kind of like, I want to spawn more Elons.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if the racism thing totally holds up,

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Speaker 3: given that, as we talked about South Korea and Japan,

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Speaker 3: are really concerned about it too, But on the pro

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Speaker 3: need list, here's what they say in response. They say that, look,

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Speaker 3: we're not concerned with this holiday of trad wives. What

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Speaker 3: we're trying to address is the missing children. That's their phrase.

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Speaker 3: The missing children are first children rather than subsequent children.

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Speaker 3: In other words, the reason why we don't have enough

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Speaker 3: babies is because more women are saying I'm not going

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Speaker 3: to have children at all, because as a passion, I'm

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Speaker 3: not going to have a bigger family, but.

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Speaker 1: Also because they can. You know, one of I mean,

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Speaker 1: one of the many things that we have done over

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Speaker 1: you know, the course of like quite a short period

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Speaker 1: of time in fact, and we talk about this all

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Speaker 1: the time, is normalizing whatever choice women make, if it's

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Speaker 1: a choice. I mean, I entirely take on your point, Amelia,

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Speaker 1: that everybody who wants to have a child should have

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Speaker 1: that choice if they want to. But what we've also

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Speaker 1: done in the massive shift in the way that women's

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Speaker 1: lives are now is it's no longer the only option

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Speaker 1: available to you. You know, we talk about this all

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Speaker 1: the time, and plenty of my friends don't have children

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Speaker 1: and they still feel the societal judgment of that. But

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Speaker 1: it's shifting. It's beginning to shift. Now there are more

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Speaker 1: models for how women's lives can be when mother isn't

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Speaker 1: their central role. And then it seems to me, and

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Speaker 1: I know I'm like rankling at this a bit, but

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Speaker 1: it seems to me that now, just when that shift

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Speaker 1: is happening, they're kind of being pushed back upon and

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Speaker 1: being like, well, your advancement, if you want to call it,

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Speaker 1: that inverted commas is now going to be the reason

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Speaker 1: for civilizational collapse. Maybe it's a readjustment. One of the

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Speaker 1: reasons I think that maybe gen x's find this hard

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Speaker 1: to get their head around is we have very much

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Speaker 1: been swimming in a soup as we like to swim,

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Speaker 1: and soups were out aloud of over population panic for

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Speaker 1: a really long time, Right.

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Speaker 2: That's what you were told. You were told those in population.

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Speaker 1: Too many babies, It's it's irresponsible to have more than

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Speaker 1: two children replace yourselves. And that's it. Like that is

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Speaker 1: the very much the cultural milieu that I grew up

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Speaker 1: in is that the planet can't handle it. We've got

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Speaker 1: way too many people. The oceans are being emptied, everything's

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Speaker 1: being mine and like it is more responsible to not

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Speaker 1: have children, and so it's whiplash to suddenly being told, well,

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Speaker 1: now you have to to the baby bonus point. I

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Speaker 1: got the baby bonus. I had my kids in baby

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Speaker 1: bonus years?

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Speaker 2: Is that why I had them?

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Speaker 1: Definitely, three thousand dollars was definitely enough. And what that

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Speaker 1: did do because there was all this like eye rolling

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Speaker 1: about people just buy a flat screen TVs with it,

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Speaker 1: da da da da, it meant that I got like

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Speaker 1: ten minutes of maternity leave instead of five minutes of

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Speaker 1: maternity leave, you know what I mean, Like I put

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Speaker 1: it on my salary so that I could have a

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Speaker 1: little bit more time off work or I've been between

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Speaker 1: Brent and I.

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Speaker 3: We could.

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Speaker 1: It was useful, it was helpful. It did make my

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Speaker 1: life a little bit easier for the time. But as

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Speaker 1: you've very clearly pointed out, Amelia, this is not life

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Speaker 1: changing money, and not should it be. But this is

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Speaker 1: not the kind of money that's going to make you

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Speaker 1: go definitely going to do something that is going to

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Speaker 1: affect everything forever.

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Speaker 3: I think you've hit on a real sort of problem

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Speaker 3: with talking about this is because it doesn't feel like

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Speaker 3: politically aligned in any way. For instance, part of the

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Speaker 3: reason why the birth rate has declined so much in

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Speaker 3: the US is because there are basically no longer teenage mothers,

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Speaker 3: and that was a huge problem in the US demographically

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Speaker 3: in the eighties and women having children older, and then

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Speaker 3: there were big social reforms that enabled younger women to have,

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Speaker 3: for instance, better access to contraception, better educational opportunities, and

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Speaker 3: then they basically stopped having children as teenagers. They stopped

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Speaker 3: having children when they were children themselves. Now you could

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Speaker 3: say that's a great thing, and it is, but on

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Speaker 3: the other side, it's part of why we're seeing this

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Speaker 3: demographic decline.

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Speaker 2: I also think on the baby bonus, I looked into

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Speaker 2: the stats about whether or not it worked, because the

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Speaker 2: jury is still out whether it worked, because there was

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Speaker 2: an uptick the next year. There definitely was, and a

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Speaker 2: lot of people suggested that that was because maybe if

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Speaker 2: you were going to have a baby anyway, you had

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Speaker 2: the baby earlier. There was an incentive. It created a

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Speaker 2: context in which there was positive social messaging around having

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Speaker 2: more babies, so it could kind of give it a

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Speaker 2: little boost.

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Speaker 1: But other demographers say that that was always going to

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Speaker 1: happen because the demographic at the time happened to be

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Speaker 1: that a lot of women of child bearing age were

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Speaker 1: coming into that. But people also say that we have

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Speaker 1: talked about this quite often. Is what it did do

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Speaker 1: is culturally spread a really positive message about children and

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Speaker 1: babies good. And to what I was just saying about

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Speaker 1: how we had kind of been internalizing this idea that

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Speaker 1: it was bad and also that a kind of welcoming

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Speaker 1: society to children.

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Speaker 2: The thing that I suppose worries me culturally about some

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Speaker 2: and this has been written about and researchers are looking

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Speaker 2: at it is a fear of dystopia. That means that

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Speaker 2: a lot of if young people are going, I don't

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Speaker 2: want to have children in this climate, right, And I

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Speaker 2: think that having kids is a vote for hope. It

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Speaker 2: is a way of going I believe that the future

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Speaker 2: is good. And that is incredibly depressing that you would have,

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Speaker 2: you know, and I completely also understandable that people might say,

434
00:20:26,901 --> 00:20:28,621
Speaker 2: I don't want to bring a child into this world.

435
00:20:28,621 --> 00:20:31,941
Speaker 2: That's also quite new. It's also interesting to me that

436
00:20:32,502 --> 00:20:34,821
Speaker 2: we only ever talk about women in this context, as

437
00:20:34,861 --> 00:20:38,221
Speaker 2: though men have no part or no say or no

438
00:20:38,341 --> 00:20:40,382
Speaker 2: perspective on no opinion on how many kids.

439
00:20:40,581 --> 00:20:42,302
Speaker 3: Well, they have a lot of opinions about it.

440
00:20:42,381 --> 00:20:44,701
Speaker 2: They definitely do. But even within a relationship, it is

441
00:20:44,742 --> 00:20:46,821
Speaker 2: not like the woman is the only one calling the

442
00:20:46,861 --> 00:20:49,661
Speaker 2: shots about if you have kids, how many kids you have?

443
00:20:49,901 --> 00:20:52,302
Speaker 2: I know they carry the baby, but it is a

444
00:20:52,341 --> 00:20:56,741
Speaker 2: conversation that is focused entirely on incentivizing women and kind

445
00:20:56,782 --> 00:20:59,262
Speaker 2: of getting women in trouble and scolding them about the

446
00:20:59,262 --> 00:20:59,702
Speaker 2: birth rate.

447
00:20:59,821 --> 00:21:02,262
Speaker 3: And also only as far as I can see, male

448
00:21:02,381 --> 00:21:06,742
Speaker 3: politicians introducing the baby bonus idea, Yeah, so true.

449
00:21:07,141 --> 00:21:11,341
Speaker 2: Does several days in dark silence sound lucky you? There

450
00:21:11,502 --> 00:21:12,821
Speaker 2: is a cave with your.

451
00:21:12,782 --> 00:21:13,181
Speaker 3: Name on it.

452
00:21:19,262 --> 00:21:24,061
Speaker 1: Could you be in a completely dark room with no sound,

453
00:21:24,502 --> 00:21:29,421
Speaker 1: no distractions, no books, definitely, no phone, no music, no

454
00:21:29,542 --> 00:21:33,782
Speaker 1: TV obviously, no no nothing for between three to five days.

455
00:21:33,821 --> 00:21:34,821
Speaker 1: Do you think you could do it?

456
00:21:34,901 --> 00:21:36,742
Speaker 2: I wouldn't come out saying I'll tell you that.

457
00:21:36,861 --> 00:21:37,781
Speaker 1: Do you think you could do it?

458
00:21:37,821 --> 00:21:37,901
Speaker 4: So?

459
00:21:38,022 --> 00:21:40,861
Speaker 3: I once said something a little bit like this. I

460
00:21:40,901 --> 00:21:43,221
Speaker 3: had a head injury. A screen door fell on me

461
00:21:43,581 --> 00:21:46,462
Speaker 3: and I had to go into what is called cognitive

462
00:21:46,502 --> 00:21:50,941
Speaker 3: rest oh where you were not permitted to use your brain,

463
00:21:51,141 --> 00:21:54,782
Speaker 3: which means no phones for sure, because it's too much

464
00:21:54,782 --> 00:21:59,581
Speaker 3: brain to use your so much deep thinking about my

465
00:21:59,821 --> 00:22:02,901
Speaker 3: life about the world. I mean, nothing changed as a

466
00:22:02,901 --> 00:22:05,022
Speaker 3: result of it, but it was it was a period

467
00:22:05,101 --> 00:22:06,581
Speaker 3: of really deep thinking.

468
00:22:06,262 --> 00:22:09,222
Speaker 1: For well, that is what is going on, because dark

469
00:22:09,581 --> 00:22:13,262
Speaker 1: treats is a new Well they're not new, they're actually ancient, right,

470
00:22:13,341 --> 00:22:17,182
Speaker 1: But dark retreats are now very hot in a certain set,

471
00:22:17,302 --> 00:22:21,901
Speaker 1: like literally not always sometimes they're cold. They're very trendy,

472
00:22:22,182 --> 00:22:23,182
Speaker 1: I guess popular.

473
00:22:23,742 --> 00:22:26,942
Speaker 2: Terrified, Yeah, terrified of the dark. I can't even sit

474
00:22:26,942 --> 00:22:27,542
Speaker 2: in the dark.

475
00:22:27,462 --> 00:22:30,141
Speaker 1: Tell you how they work, right, So I've been reading

476
00:22:30,182 --> 00:22:32,381
Speaker 1: about these lately because they're kind of hot with like

477
00:22:32,422 --> 00:22:34,861
Speaker 1: the tech broke crowd and the you know, the real

478
00:22:34,942 --> 00:22:39,661
Speaker 1: self healthy, longevity seeking male podcaster crowd. But then this

479
00:22:39,702 --> 00:22:41,861
Speaker 1: week it popped up in a newsletter that I get

480
00:22:41,861 --> 00:22:44,502
Speaker 1: from Liz Gilbert. I subscribed to her substack, and I've

481
00:22:44,542 --> 00:22:47,141
Speaker 1: been particularly Liz focused lately because I'm going to interview

482
00:22:47,141 --> 00:22:50,381
Speaker 1: her soon. And this week the one that she sent

483
00:22:50,462 --> 00:22:54,341
Speaker 1: out said I've just come out of five days in

484
00:22:54,742 --> 00:22:57,502
Speaker 1: absolute isolation on a dark retreat, and she put a

485
00:22:57,502 --> 00:23:00,141
Speaker 1: link to the place that she'd gone to, and so

486
00:23:00,182 --> 00:23:02,901
Speaker 1: I went and looked. And the way that it works

487
00:23:02,982 --> 00:23:04,621
Speaker 1: is so it's like a sort of this is in

488
00:23:04,702 --> 00:23:06,661
Speaker 1: America but they do exist in other places. There is

489
00:23:06,702 --> 00:23:10,422
Speaker 1: one in Australia. It's like a cabin in the woods

490
00:23:10,462 --> 00:23:13,222
Speaker 1: built into a sort of you know, a cave. Yeah,

491
00:23:13,621 --> 00:23:15,861
Speaker 1: but it's quite nice. It's got like a bed and

492
00:23:15,901 --> 00:23:18,341
Speaker 1: it's got a flushing toilet and it's got all the things.

493
00:23:18,782 --> 00:23:21,221
Speaker 1: And you go up there for say a week, and

494
00:23:21,262 --> 00:23:23,661
Speaker 1: the first day you're like learning about what's about to

495
00:23:23,661 --> 00:23:26,142
Speaker 1: happen to you. And then you're and you're being kind

496
00:23:26,141 --> 00:23:28,342
Speaker 1: of like settled in and they say wind down a bit,

497
00:23:28,661 --> 00:23:31,381
Speaker 1: and then they put you in the cabin and just

498
00:23:31,462 --> 00:23:35,022
Speaker 1: after sunset they turn off all the lights. So there's

499
00:23:35,101 --> 00:23:37,342
Speaker 1: like this is dark now. And as they say, you're

500
00:23:37,381 --> 00:23:40,461
Speaker 1: going into the dark now, you can choose whether you

501
00:23:40,502 --> 00:23:43,302
Speaker 1: want that to be for a day, three days, five days,

502
00:23:43,302 --> 00:23:46,262
Speaker 1: seven days. For the real hardcore, you get three meals

503
00:23:46,262 --> 00:23:49,102
Speaker 1: a day sort of delivered to you. Actually they only

504
00:23:49,101 --> 00:23:51,341
Speaker 1: get delivered once, so that they only interrupt you once.

505
00:23:51,422 --> 00:23:54,142
Speaker 1: But they put them under the door or whatever. They've

506
00:23:54,141 --> 00:23:56,502
Speaker 1: got a hatch or whatever, and otherwise you are just

507
00:23:56,621 --> 00:23:58,622
Speaker 1: left alone and they check on you once a day

508
00:23:58,702 --> 00:24:01,901
Speaker 1: just to make sure you're not spiraling. Yeah, but again

509
00:24:02,262 --> 00:24:05,782
Speaker 1: they don't interrupt your darkness. And this goes on for

510
00:24:05,782 --> 00:24:06,941
Speaker 1: as long as you want it to go on for

511
00:24:07,101 --> 00:24:08,621
Speaker 1: and then when you come out. And this is what

512
00:24:08,661 --> 00:24:12,381
Speaker 1: you'll see on social media about dark retreats. People often

513
00:24:12,462 --> 00:24:16,302
Speaker 1: film people taking off imasks to see light again for

514
00:24:16,341 --> 00:24:19,101
Speaker 1: the first time. Now, Liz is one. In her newsletter,

515
00:24:19,182 --> 00:24:21,182
Speaker 1: she put one of these videos in because you can't

516
00:24:21,182 --> 00:24:22,662
Speaker 1: make a lot of content when you're in a dark

517
00:24:22,742 --> 00:24:25,101
Speaker 1: room with no phone, and hers is a great for

518
00:24:25,141 --> 00:24:27,382
Speaker 1: audio because she doesn't really say anything, but a few

519
00:24:27,381 --> 00:24:30,381
Speaker 1: people do. So this is audio of a guy coming

520
00:24:30,422 --> 00:24:32,782
Speaker 1: out of the dark retreat and taking off his mask

521
00:24:32,861 --> 00:24:34,982
Speaker 1: and how he felt the first time it happened.

522
00:24:35,661 --> 00:24:39,821
Speaker 5: Oh my god, just moving on a little bit. Oh

523
00:24:39,861 --> 00:24:45,341
Speaker 5: my god. Oh that is way brighter than I thought

524
00:24:45,341 --> 00:24:45,701
Speaker 5: it'd be.

525
00:24:50,381 --> 00:24:54,502
Speaker 1: Oh my god, there's a lot of oh my god,

526
00:24:55,341 --> 00:24:56,141
Speaker 1: I bet that would be.

527
00:24:56,182 --> 00:24:57,982
Speaker 5: It's so funny when you find something that you didn't

528
00:24:57,982 --> 00:25:03,262
Speaker 5: really realize was lost. Other things are like that, you know,

529
00:25:03,742 --> 00:25:06,621
Speaker 5: Am I doing that with love? I think I have love?

530
00:25:07,782 --> 00:25:10,061
Speaker 5: You know, before coming in here, I would have said

531
00:25:10,061 --> 00:25:11,022
Speaker 5: I definitely know love.

532
00:25:11,742 --> 00:25:14,542
Speaker 6: When now I'm wondered if it's gotten packed on with

533
00:25:14,621 --> 00:25:17,461
Speaker 6: all these other things I've forgotten just what it's like

534
00:25:17,621 --> 00:25:24,061
Speaker 6: just to like, just beam, just beam love with no

535
00:25:24,182 --> 00:25:25,581
Speaker 6: expectation whatsoever.

536
00:25:27,022 --> 00:25:29,982
Speaker 3: This reminds me of when I turned my phone grayscale

537
00:25:30,061 --> 00:25:32,581
Speaker 3: for three days in twenty nineteen, and then when I

538
00:25:32,661 --> 00:25:34,941
Speaker 3: turned it back onto full color again, you were like

539
00:25:35,141 --> 00:25:37,182
Speaker 3: that planing. That's the sound of what I did.

540
00:25:38,022 --> 00:25:39,742
Speaker 1: You know how you said when you were in Colt

541
00:25:39,782 --> 00:25:42,421
Speaker 1: Force cognitive resue a lot of deep thinking. That guy's

542
00:25:42,462 --> 00:25:43,782
Speaker 1: just done a lot of deep thinking. I'm just going

543
00:25:43,861 --> 00:25:45,581
Speaker 1: to tell you what Liz Gilbert said about the experience,

544
00:25:45,621 --> 00:25:47,782
Speaker 1: and then well she'll unpack what we think this is

545
00:25:47,821 --> 00:25:50,342
Speaker 1: all about. So she wrote in her newsletter that when

546
00:25:50,381 --> 00:25:52,581
Speaker 1: she heard about it, she had like a full body yes,

547
00:25:52,742 --> 00:25:55,022
Speaker 1: like she was like, that's something I know I want

548
00:25:55,022 --> 00:25:57,181
Speaker 1: to do, so, she writes, So I signed up for

549
00:25:57,182 --> 00:25:59,502
Speaker 1: the experience, and I will admit there were times last week,

550
00:25:59,542 --> 00:26:02,622
Speaker 1: sitting in the inky, unmovable darkness and silence for hour

551
00:26:02,702 --> 00:26:04,861
Speaker 1: after hour, when I said to my body, whose dumb

552
00:26:04,942 --> 00:26:07,101
Speaker 1: idea was this? I mean, it's summer. I could be

553
00:26:07,141 --> 00:26:08,702
Speaker 1: at the beach, I could be floating in a pool

554
00:26:08,742 --> 00:26:10,302
Speaker 1: with my friends. I could be reading a book in

555
00:26:10,302 --> 00:26:12,941
Speaker 1: a hammock with a nice cold beverage. But no because

556
00:26:12,942 --> 00:26:16,302
Speaker 1: of my loud, mouthful body responsive. Yes, instead of doing

557
00:26:16,302 --> 00:26:18,542
Speaker 1: normal things. Last week I spent one hundred hours in

558
00:26:18,581 --> 00:26:21,621
Speaker 1: a cave with no light, alone with the terrorist of

559
00:26:21,661 --> 00:26:24,502
Speaker 1: my brain. But here's the thing. My body knew I

560
00:26:24,581 --> 00:26:27,061
Speaker 1: needed this. My body knew that something was going to

561
00:26:27,101 --> 00:26:29,622
Speaker 1: happen in that dark that I needed. A treasure would

562
00:26:29,661 --> 00:26:33,141
Speaker 1: be found in that difficult experience, and so it was.

563
00:26:34,581 --> 00:26:35,821
Speaker 1: What's our reaction is this?

564
00:26:35,942 --> 00:26:37,022
Speaker 3: Rich people? Camping?

565
00:26:39,302 --> 00:26:40,501
Speaker 1: Camping is fun?

566
00:26:41,422 --> 00:26:42,821
Speaker 3: But how is this different?

567
00:26:43,141 --> 00:26:45,421
Speaker 4: I mean, what are you then no sausages rather than

568
00:26:46,462 --> 00:26:50,461
Speaker 4: there's no organic okay, there's no like you know, did

569
00:26:50,542 --> 00:26:53,221
Speaker 4: she like was she allowed to take in things like,

570
00:26:53,302 --> 00:26:55,421
Speaker 4: for instance, alcohol or anything like that?

571
00:26:56,302 --> 00:26:56,981
Speaker 3: Book's okay?

572
00:26:57,141 --> 00:26:58,302
Speaker 1: No, because it's pitch black.

573
00:26:58,661 --> 00:27:00,661
Speaker 3: Even during the light, it's pitch black.

574
00:27:00,742 --> 00:27:04,222
Speaker 1: This is the point event you go into the dark. No, no, no,

575
00:27:04,861 --> 00:27:07,502
Speaker 1: you go you can enjoy daylight. I don't know. You

576
00:27:07,542 --> 00:27:10,261
Speaker 1: go into the dark and then you are in dark

577
00:27:10,422 --> 00:27:14,181
Speaker 1: for as Liz Gilbert was one hundred hours. I find

578
00:27:14,222 --> 00:27:18,461
Speaker 1: it really interesting why people how these things, because you know,

579
00:27:18,581 --> 00:27:20,341
Speaker 1: to be clear, when you go to the site and

580
00:27:20,381 --> 00:27:22,261
Speaker 1: learn about this, they'll tell you that this is an

581
00:27:22,262 --> 00:27:24,581
Speaker 1: ancient practice that people have gone into retreat for years

582
00:27:24,581 --> 00:27:26,861
Speaker 1: and like, and they have lots of stats about the

583
00:27:26,942 --> 00:27:32,742
Speaker 1: dark and everything. But it's really interesting what sort of edgy,

584
00:27:32,982 --> 00:27:37,182
Speaker 1: extreme wellness spiritual things pop up at different times.

585
00:27:36,861 --> 00:27:38,782
Speaker 2: And how they do seem to be getting more and

586
00:27:38,821 --> 00:27:42,141
Speaker 2: more extreme. So silent retreats have been a big deal

587
00:27:42,182 --> 00:27:45,581
Speaker 2: for a long time. That's been and of course, as

588
00:27:45,581 --> 00:27:49,261
Speaker 2: often happens is that's a practice that like Tibetan monks

589
00:27:49,302 --> 00:27:51,982
Speaker 2: have for a very long time practice silence, a lot

590
00:27:51,982 --> 00:27:55,741
Speaker 2: of religious people have, and the Dark Caves is a

591
00:27:55,742 --> 00:27:58,981
Speaker 2: Tibetan monk thing, so they described it, and it's an

592
00:27:59,022 --> 00:28:01,462
Speaker 2: advanced practice. It's not something you do in your first

593
00:28:01,581 --> 00:28:03,221
Speaker 2: year of being a monk. Like you've got to know

594
00:28:03,262 --> 00:28:06,662
Speaker 2: how to meditate and like get back in touch with yourself.

595
00:28:06,742 --> 00:28:10,501
Speaker 2: And they describe it as like a return to the womb.

596
00:28:10,581 --> 00:28:14,141
Speaker 2: It's almost like confronting death because it's just blackness, which

597
00:28:14,182 --> 00:28:18,061
Speaker 2: sounds horrific to me. But what I found interesting in

598
00:28:18,101 --> 00:28:22,141
Speaker 2: what Elizabeth Gilbert said is that she said, it turns

599
00:28:22,141 --> 00:28:24,101
Speaker 2: out when you take everything else away, love is the

600
00:28:24,141 --> 00:28:26,221
Speaker 2: only thing left in the room. And that's what that

601
00:28:26,302 --> 00:28:27,981
Speaker 2: guy said too that we just listened to. And I

602
00:28:28,061 --> 00:28:31,101
Speaker 2: never understood what they meant by love. It felt really vague.

603
00:28:31,462 --> 00:28:33,942
Speaker 2: But I was listening to this monk recently. I think

604
00:28:33,942 --> 00:28:36,942
Speaker 2: he was interviewed on Ezra Klein. His name is Mark Epstein,

605
00:28:37,702 --> 00:28:40,222
Speaker 2: and he was saying that when they talk about love,

606
00:28:40,302 --> 00:28:42,822
Speaker 2: especially at the end of a silent retreat, people will go,

607
00:28:42,902 --> 00:28:45,022
Speaker 2: I felt love. And you know how when you try

608
00:28:45,062 --> 00:28:47,662
Speaker 2: and meditate, you get the chatter and then you start,

609
00:28:47,742 --> 00:28:49,461
Speaker 2: as we all do. We judge our thoughts, and we

610
00:28:49,582 --> 00:28:51,902
Speaker 2: kind of are in conversation with our thoughts, and we say,

611
00:28:51,902 --> 00:28:54,342
Speaker 2: that's a stupid thought. Why am I stewing on this one?

612
00:28:54,342 --> 00:28:57,981
Speaker 2: Why does this memory keep coming back? Apparently if you

613
00:28:58,022 --> 00:29:01,102
Speaker 2: sit with those thoughts for long enough. He described it

614
00:29:01,142 --> 00:29:04,941
Speaker 2: as being like the mother who has unconditional love for toddler,

615
00:29:04,982 --> 00:29:08,941
Speaker 2: and the toddler is yelling and throwing things and running

616
00:29:08,942 --> 00:29:12,622
Speaker 2: it like they're are going crazy, and that mother just

617
00:29:12,702 --> 00:29:15,342
Speaker 2: stands there and observes, and their love is never it

618
00:29:15,422 --> 00:29:17,661
Speaker 2: never falters because that's unconditionally.

619
00:29:17,742 --> 00:29:19,502
Speaker 1: Although that's why she needs to go into a dark

620
00:29:19,502 --> 00:29:20,941
Speaker 1: retreat every down again exactly.

621
00:29:20,982 --> 00:29:23,302
Speaker 2: And I was like, her love never falters, but like,

622
00:29:23,382 --> 00:29:24,822
Speaker 2: does she just stand there passively?

623
00:29:25,022 --> 00:29:25,422
Speaker 3: Does she?

624
00:29:25,661 --> 00:29:29,142
Speaker 2: Or does sometimes she start also throwing her arms around.

625
00:29:29,702 --> 00:29:32,822
Speaker 2: But I quite liked that idea that people say they

626
00:29:32,822 --> 00:29:36,022
Speaker 2: don't leave with a greater understanding of themselves, they leave

627
00:29:36,382 --> 00:29:38,942
Speaker 2: having abandoned the self and realizing there's nothing there.

628
00:29:39,862 --> 00:29:43,702
Speaker 3: Okay, I feel like there's an element here of these

629
00:29:43,862 --> 00:29:47,862
Speaker 3: rich people trying to outdo themselves with these wellness rituals.

630
00:29:47,902 --> 00:29:50,741
Speaker 3: Basically like, yeah, it's almost boasting at this point. So

631
00:29:51,342 --> 00:29:54,461
Speaker 3: apparently there's one Guatemalan retreat where you can also be

632
00:29:54,582 --> 00:29:58,461
Speaker 3: deprived of light and censory distractions for three thousand dollars

633
00:29:58,462 --> 00:30:01,221
Speaker 3: for four nights. So I'm sure that the Tibetan monks

634
00:30:01,622 --> 00:30:04,382
Speaker 3: were not charging each other three thousand dollars for four

635
00:30:04,502 --> 00:30:05,741
Speaker 3: nights of a silent retreat.

636
00:30:05,822 --> 00:30:07,342
Speaker 2: They were going into actual caves.

637
00:30:07,582 --> 00:30:11,421
Speaker 3: This is about outdoing each other. And basically, seeing as

638
00:30:11,502 --> 00:30:14,822
Speaker 3: Holly said, how extreme are these wellness rituals going to get?

639
00:30:14,862 --> 00:30:17,781
Speaker 2: And I reckon it is about efficient wellness. So you

640
00:30:17,782 --> 00:30:21,342
Speaker 2: hear about these people who have I guess, especially in

641
00:30:21,382 --> 00:30:23,822
Speaker 2: the US, where even your annual leave is really short. Right,

642
00:30:23,862 --> 00:30:25,782
Speaker 2: Let's say you're a high flyer, you've got a really

643
00:30:25,782 --> 00:30:28,782
Speaker 2: intense job, You're on twenty four seven when you have

644
00:30:28,862 --> 00:30:31,102
Speaker 2: a break. It isn't enough to lay on a beach.

645
00:30:31,542 --> 00:30:35,582
Speaker 2: You need to fully restore as efficiently as possible in

646
00:30:35,622 --> 00:30:38,181
Speaker 2: three nights and four days, And like, what do you

647
00:30:38,222 --> 00:30:40,181
Speaker 2: need to do to do that? Maybe lay in a

648
00:30:40,262 --> 00:30:40,622
Speaker 2: dark hat.

649
00:30:40,661 --> 00:30:43,342
Speaker 3: It's to bring up another phone. Analogy like turning your

650
00:30:43,382 --> 00:30:46,422
Speaker 3: phone to airplane mode to get it to charge more quickly.

651
00:30:46,542 --> 00:30:48,941
Speaker 3: This is basically turning yourself to airplane mode.

652
00:30:49,102 --> 00:30:51,902
Speaker 2: Yes, but I agree as well that it's about trends

653
00:30:52,102 --> 00:30:55,622
Speaker 2: because I was thinking flow tanks were everywhere five minutes ago,

654
00:30:55,661 --> 00:30:58,502
Speaker 2: and I just thought, where did they go? Did they

655
00:30:58,702 --> 00:31:01,342
Speaker 2: die with COVID? Like, because that I suppose is an

656
00:31:01,342 --> 00:31:03,102
Speaker 2: hour long version of this where you laid in the

657
00:31:03,222 --> 00:31:06,542
Speaker 2: dark and kind of meditated or whatever. But it does

658
00:31:06,582 --> 00:31:09,262
Speaker 2: feel like these pop up and then disappear, and it

659
00:31:09,262 --> 00:31:11,822
Speaker 2: does feel a bit like appropriating the Tibetan monks who

660
00:31:11,822 --> 00:31:13,661
Speaker 2: have been doing it better than us for a long time.

661
00:31:14,022 --> 00:31:16,782
Speaker 1: It's interesting because the other bit, the cynical bit of me,

662
00:31:16,902 --> 00:31:19,102
Speaker 1: is like, what an excellent business idea because it's like

663
00:31:19,142 --> 00:31:21,022
Speaker 1: a hotel, but you don't have to do anything, Like

664
00:31:21,262 --> 00:31:24,102
Speaker 1: some of these ones are about nine hundred dollars a night,

665
00:31:24,262 --> 00:31:26,022
Speaker 1: so you go for however long that you go for

666
00:31:26,542 --> 00:31:28,782
Speaker 1: and yes you have to provide food, but that's all.

667
00:31:28,862 --> 00:31:31,342
Speaker 1: The guests are very quiet. They're all in their cabins.

668
00:31:31,342 --> 00:31:33,142
Speaker 2: No parties, no bodies.

669
00:31:32,782 --> 00:31:36,261
Speaker 1: No drama, no activities needed, no snorkeling trips. I don't know.

670
00:31:36,302 --> 00:31:38,382
Speaker 1: Like it's funny, there's a part of me that's very

671
00:31:38,382 --> 00:31:41,102
Speaker 1: attracted to this stuff. Like I like to think maybe

672
00:31:41,182 --> 00:31:44,661
Speaker 1: when I'm not working anymore, and clearly I've sold a

673
00:31:44,742 --> 00:31:46,862
Speaker 1: booked to Hollywood or something and I'm rolling in it,

674
00:31:47,062 --> 00:31:48,782
Speaker 1: then like I would go and do all this stuff

675
00:31:48,822 --> 00:31:52,221
Speaker 1: because I'm fascinated by it. But I actually don't think

676
00:31:52,302 --> 00:31:54,302
Speaker 1: that my mind could do it.

677
00:31:54,342 --> 00:31:56,382
Speaker 2: Like I don't want to spend time with her. I'm like,

678
00:31:56,542 --> 00:31:59,062
Speaker 2: I get enough of her and I don't want to

679
00:31:59,062 --> 00:32:02,742
Speaker 2: spend a holiday in my own head, I think she's

680
00:32:03,142 --> 00:32:04,062
Speaker 2: not good company.

681
00:32:04,142 --> 00:32:07,221
Speaker 3: Also worry about insects. Oh so true.

682
00:32:07,902 --> 00:32:11,062
Speaker 1: You wouldn't be able to see them creeping up on

683
00:32:11,222 --> 00:32:15,661
Speaker 1: you after the break some schrorelous gossip playing out on

684
00:32:15,782 --> 00:32:20,822
Speaker 1: Europe's Mega Yachts.

685
00:32:22,182 --> 00:32:25,461
Speaker 2: Every Tuesday and Thursday, we drop new segments of Mummy

686
00:32:25,542 --> 00:32:29,102
Speaker 2: Out Loud just for MUMMYA subscribers follow the link in

687
00:32:29,142 --> 00:32:31,461
Speaker 2: the show notes to get your daily doseph out loud

688
00:32:31,702 --> 00:32:34,502
Speaker 2: and a big thank you to all our current subscribers.

689
00:32:39,182 --> 00:32:42,822
Speaker 1: I can't vouch for the veracity of this information and

690
00:32:42,902 --> 00:32:47,062
Speaker 1: that's why it's schirrelous. But word on the Celebrity Street,

691
00:32:47,302 --> 00:32:51,062
Speaker 1: I want to where Celebrity Street is alabasis? Perhaps is

692
00:32:51,102 --> 00:32:54,502
Speaker 1: that Brooklyn Beckham and his wife Nicola Peltz Beckham just

693
00:32:54,542 --> 00:32:58,262
Speaker 1: renewed their vows, possibly in the Hamptons in New York City.

694
00:32:58,542 --> 00:33:00,582
Speaker 1: And know she didn't wear a dress designed by her

695
00:33:00,622 --> 00:33:02,582
Speaker 1: mother in law this time, and no, in fact, the

696
00:33:02,622 --> 00:33:05,701
Speaker 1: other Beckhams were not invited because, as we know, the

697
00:33:05,782 --> 00:33:07,382
Speaker 1: family feud is still going.

698
00:33:07,542 --> 00:33:11,661
Speaker 2: I kept reading that it was very private, very planner

699
00:33:11,702 --> 00:33:12,822
Speaker 2: for this one soon.

700
00:33:12,862 --> 00:33:16,862
Speaker 1: Not yet, but who knows, there's time. In telling wording

701
00:33:17,102 --> 00:33:20,582
Speaker 1: from Celebrity Diary People magazine, the couple apparently wanted to

702
00:33:20,582 --> 00:33:25,262
Speaker 1: do this to create new memories, maybe ones that didn't.

703
00:33:24,982 --> 00:33:28,062
Speaker 2: Involve Victoria Beckham specific parents.

704
00:33:28,382 --> 00:33:30,661
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, and Amelia, I know you've got the goods on this.

705
00:33:31,022 --> 00:33:35,022
Speaker 1: Although the vowy newal is sort of scoreless gossip and

706
00:33:35,062 --> 00:33:38,702
Speaker 1: speculation at this point, Instagram does not lie, and there

707
00:33:38,742 --> 00:33:42,062
Speaker 1: has been quite the drama playing out across two Beckham

708
00:33:42,062 --> 00:33:45,422
Speaker 1: Instagram accounts to do with a yacht, So Amelia, bring

709
00:33:45,502 --> 00:33:46,422
Speaker 1: us some yacht gossip.

710
00:33:46,582 --> 00:33:50,022
Speaker 3: Thanks Holly. Yeah. As Yocht correspondent, I'm happy to send

711
00:33:50,022 --> 00:33:54,701
Speaker 3: this dispatch direct from Monaco. Actually can so. I feel

712
00:33:54,782 --> 00:33:58,142
Speaker 3: so sorry for David and Victoria beck Let me tell

713
00:33:58,142 --> 00:34:01,221
Speaker 3: you what happened. So David, you know recently knighted like

714
00:34:01,462 --> 00:34:04,182
Speaker 3: living the high life, now reached the pinnacle of their careers.

715
00:34:04,222 --> 00:34:07,142
Speaker 3: Everyone loves them after the documentary, I think they were

716
00:34:07,142 --> 00:34:10,102
Speaker 3: feeling really good about life, David and Victoria. So in

717
00:34:10,142 --> 00:34:14,222
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two they purchased their own yacht. That is

718
00:34:14,262 --> 00:34:16,701
Speaker 3: a sign you've made it, isn't it. That is a

719
00:34:16,742 --> 00:34:18,421
Speaker 3: sign you've made it. As they say, if you want

720
00:34:18,422 --> 00:34:21,022
Speaker 3: to light money on fire by a yacht. It is

721
00:34:21,022 --> 00:34:23,341
Speaker 3: one hundred and thirty feet long, that's forty meters. It

722
00:34:23,382 --> 00:34:26,262
Speaker 3: costs thirty two million Australian dollars and it's called seven,

723
00:34:26,302 --> 00:34:29,301
Speaker 3: which is in reference to David Beckham's football number. I

724
00:34:29,342 --> 00:34:31,462
Speaker 3: am told it also has a spa bath as well,

725
00:34:31,502 --> 00:34:34,022
Speaker 3: which his dice. Because I bet Victoria loves a spa

726
00:34:34,102 --> 00:34:37,462
Speaker 3: amazing lovely. It looks really nice. I wouldn't say no

727
00:34:37,622 --> 00:34:40,622
Speaker 3: if they invited me on it. However, at the very

728
00:34:40,701 --> 00:34:45,102
Speaker 3: same time, the Peltzers decided to take their own yacht

729
00:34:45,701 --> 00:34:48,582
Speaker 3: for a spin that they own. This is Nichola's father,

730
00:34:48,661 --> 00:34:51,301
Speaker 3: who is a millionaire. He owns a yacht. It's one

731
00:34:51,382 --> 00:34:55,502
Speaker 3: hundred and seventy five million Aussie dollars. It has it's

732
00:34:55,542 --> 00:34:58,462
Speaker 3: just bigger. It has an elevator, it has a heighty

733
00:34:58,542 --> 00:35:02,221
Speaker 3: solar on it has underwater lights, and it can house

734
00:35:02,261 --> 00:35:04,461
Speaker 3: twelve guests in nine cabins. So it's just a sort

735
00:35:04,462 --> 00:35:07,501
Speaker 3: of better yacht, like clearly a better yacht. I want

736
00:35:07,502 --> 00:35:11,742
Speaker 3: you to picture how ridiculous the bear Comes yacht looks

737
00:35:11,741 --> 00:35:13,942
Speaker 3: in comparison to the Peltzer's yacht.

738
00:35:14,181 --> 00:35:16,821
Speaker 1: There's always someone richer than you that's like.

739
00:35:16,781 --> 00:35:21,301
Speaker 3: A little toy Fisher price yacht. And they're clear speedboats. Yeah,

740
00:35:21,302 --> 00:35:25,221
Speaker 3: they're sailing around at the same time, and David and

741
00:35:25,302 --> 00:35:28,062
Speaker 3: Victoria are like beaming with pride in the photos they

742
00:35:28,062 --> 00:35:30,821
Speaker 3: posted on Instagram from this yacht, because again it's kind

743
00:35:30,862 --> 00:35:33,941
Speaker 3: of a big deal. And then you've just got Nicola

744
00:35:34,181 --> 00:35:36,942
Speaker 3: and Brooklyn posting from the Mega.

745
00:35:36,741 --> 00:35:38,862
Speaker 2: Yacht, because what you do when you're in that corner

746
00:35:38,902 --> 00:35:40,942
Speaker 2: of the world I was there last year. Is that

747
00:35:41,022 --> 00:35:43,261
Speaker 2: you go imagine being on that boat and you say

748
00:35:43,302 --> 00:35:47,661
Speaker 2: it from the port because you're personally not on a

749
00:35:47,661 --> 00:35:50,062
Speaker 2: boat and you can't even afford my ice cream, but

750
00:35:50,062 --> 00:35:52,741
Speaker 2: you're looking around going imagine being on that boat. That's

751
00:35:52,781 --> 00:35:55,421
Speaker 2: the best. That's David and Victoria sitting there being like, wow,

752
00:35:55,462 --> 00:35:58,142
Speaker 2: imagine being on that one, and Brookies like, fuck your

753
00:35:58,181 --> 00:35:58,782
Speaker 2: mom and dad?

754
00:35:59,542 --> 00:36:00,022
Speaker 3: Why would you.

755
00:36:00,062 --> 00:36:03,062
Speaker 1: Fancy people like yacht so much? Like if I had

756
00:36:03,102 --> 00:36:04,941
Speaker 1: all the money in the world, I don't think that's

757
00:36:04,942 --> 00:36:08,142
Speaker 1: what I'd do with it anyway. That's on the sidebar.

758
00:36:08,302 --> 00:36:11,462
Speaker 1: But what I want to know is this, Right, there

759
00:36:11,462 --> 00:36:13,781
Speaker 1: are lots of places to take your fancy yachts in

760
00:36:13,942 --> 00:36:16,741
Speaker 1: Europe at this time of year. You can't move for them,

761
00:36:16,902 --> 00:36:18,622
Speaker 1: the billionaires on their bloody yachts.

762
00:36:18,741 --> 00:36:18,901
Speaker 3: Right.

763
00:36:19,902 --> 00:36:22,261
Speaker 1: Isn't it a bit weird that they all end up

764
00:36:22,302 --> 00:36:26,102
Speaker 1: in Santrapez exactly the same time? And is that because

765
00:36:26,181 --> 00:36:28,741
Speaker 1: do you think that that David and Victoria were like

766
00:36:29,062 --> 00:36:30,862
Speaker 1: hoping that they could trail the big yacht with the

767
00:36:30,902 --> 00:36:33,781
Speaker 1: little yacht and that maybe they'd bump in, maybe they

768
00:36:33,822 --> 00:36:34,741
Speaker 1: could be a reuni.

769
00:36:34,982 --> 00:36:37,542
Speaker 3: I assumed it was the exact opposite. Look, everything we

770
00:36:37,622 --> 00:36:40,502
Speaker 3: know about the Peltzers, please don't sue me. Peltzer's is

771
00:36:40,542 --> 00:36:44,062
Speaker 3: that they sue everyone, including the wedding planner for Nichola's

772
00:36:44,102 --> 00:36:48,062
Speaker 3: wedding Pelts himself seems kind of unpleasant. The Beckham's look,

773
00:36:48,062 --> 00:36:50,741
Speaker 3: I've watched the Netflix documentary. They look lovely. I'm sort

774
00:36:50,741 --> 00:36:52,902
Speaker 3: of team Beckham here. I think they plan this. I

775
00:36:52,942 --> 00:36:55,142
Speaker 3: bet they booked this like twelve months ago. They've been

776
00:36:55,181 --> 00:36:57,622
Speaker 3: counting down the days, and I just have to believe

777
00:36:57,661 --> 00:37:00,741
Speaker 3: that Brooklyn and Nicola were the ones who showed up

778
00:37:00,862 --> 00:37:02,022
Speaker 3: to sort of one up them.

779
00:37:02,062 --> 00:37:05,742
Speaker 2: Don't you think I have a holiday hat for free?

780
00:37:05,822 --> 00:37:09,301
Speaker 2: This is my holiday hat, Sherryot like it would have

781
00:37:09,342 --> 00:37:11,261
Speaker 2: been so much more cheap.

782
00:37:11,582 --> 00:37:14,062
Speaker 3: A twelve cabins on the they're not talking to it.

783
00:37:14,102 --> 00:37:16,662
Speaker 2: It's like, this is what happens when families fall apart,

784
00:37:16,741 --> 00:37:17,902
Speaker 2: is that we end up paying frowing.

785
00:37:18,181 --> 00:37:20,462
Speaker 3: It's very sad. I have one other piece of evidence

786
00:37:20,902 --> 00:37:24,741
Speaker 3: that Nicola and Brooklyn engineered it this way. They had

787
00:37:24,781 --> 00:37:27,702
Speaker 3: lunch while they were sailing around the south of France

788
00:37:27,781 --> 00:37:31,982
Speaker 3: in cann with Elton, John Nichola and Brooklyn and Brooklyn.

789
00:37:32,102 --> 00:37:33,982
Speaker 1: I thought that David and Elton were mates.

790
00:37:34,382 --> 00:37:37,502
Speaker 3: Elton has been a friend of the Beckhams for years because.

791
00:37:37,221 --> 00:37:39,461
Speaker 2: They would talk about the knighthood. They have those things

792
00:37:39,462 --> 00:37:39,862
Speaker 2: in common.

793
00:37:39,982 --> 00:37:43,742
Speaker 3: What is clear is that Nichola and Brooklyn got Elton

794
00:37:43,822 --> 00:37:46,781
Speaker 3: in the family breakup, and they went and performed the

795
00:37:46,822 --> 00:37:51,461
Speaker 3: Bowery knew they ordered lobsol and Guinie. It did cost

796
00:37:51,502 --> 00:37:54,741
Speaker 3: three hundred and forty dollars each. Elton paid, though, which

797
00:37:54,781 --> 00:37:59,102
Speaker 3: is nice. Elton paid, and then Nichola posted on Instagram

798
00:37:59,622 --> 00:38:02,341
Speaker 3: a picture of herself naked in a bathtub on her

799
00:38:02,781 --> 00:38:07,102
Speaker 3: family's yacht to thank Elton for the lunch. Now, I

800
00:38:07,221 --> 00:38:10,341
Speaker 3: don't think Elton's inclined.

801
00:38:11,142 --> 00:38:14,022
Speaker 1: I did see that picture. Look, I do understand why

802
00:38:14,022 --> 00:38:15,421
Speaker 1: fancy people like lobster lingue.

803
00:38:15,582 --> 00:38:19,261
Speaker 3: Me. I would like that, But do they do because

804
00:38:19,261 --> 00:38:20,942
Speaker 3: I'm no good as that. I definitely would.

805
00:38:21,221 --> 00:38:22,982
Speaker 1: A little person would do that for you.

806
00:38:24,302 --> 00:38:29,342
Speaker 2: She doesn't need people paying for a linguine. I'm puffer

807
00:38:29,382 --> 00:38:31,021
Speaker 2: fishing and I need to get this off my Yes,

808
00:38:31,102 --> 00:38:32,181
Speaker 2: I love it when you're popery.

809
00:38:32,342 --> 00:38:32,662
Speaker 4: Yeah.

810
00:38:32,701 --> 00:38:35,862
Speaker 2: So it is about the appification, which is a fancy

811
00:38:35,862 --> 00:38:38,942
Speaker 2: word for saying too many apps of everything. There was

812
00:38:38,942 --> 00:38:42,181
Speaker 2: a great Substack article by Jill Vlopovich about this, and.

813
00:38:42,102 --> 00:38:43,422
Speaker 3: I nodded at every word.

814
00:38:43,781 --> 00:38:46,542
Speaker 2: How many times have you bought a product only to

815
00:38:46,622 --> 00:38:48,502
Speaker 2: learn that in order to use it you have to

816
00:38:48,502 --> 00:38:51,022
Speaker 2: download an app. How many times have you sat down

817
00:38:51,102 --> 00:38:53,622
Speaker 2: to order food suddenly there's a QR code. You go,

818
00:38:53,862 --> 00:38:56,702
Speaker 2: that's fine, because I downloaded an app last time. No, no, no,

819
00:38:56,982 --> 00:38:59,382
Speaker 2: you need a new app to get your sandwich. You

820
00:38:59,382 --> 00:39:01,341
Speaker 2: want to book an exercise class, You want to use

821
00:39:01,342 --> 00:39:03,542
Speaker 2: your baby monitor, You want to transfer money, join a

822
00:39:03,582 --> 00:39:06,741
Speaker 2: loyalty program, book a doctor's appointment. Your supermarket has an app,

823
00:39:06,741 --> 00:39:09,542
Speaker 2: Your phone service has an app. Your health insurance goddamn it,

824
00:39:09,622 --> 00:39:11,701
Speaker 2: we have an app. It's great app. But that's not

825
00:39:11,741 --> 00:39:15,822
Speaker 2: the point. The point is I audibly moan every single

826
00:39:15,862 --> 00:39:18,942
Speaker 2: time I am told I must download an app. It

827
00:39:18,982 --> 00:39:21,221
Speaker 2: is annoying. I have too many. Half of them are

828
00:39:21,302 --> 00:39:23,542
Speaker 2: now redundant. And once I get.

829
00:39:23,382 --> 00:39:24,701
Speaker 3: And they all have a log in, of course, they

830
00:39:24,741 --> 00:39:25,582
Speaker 3: all have a log in.

831
00:39:25,622 --> 00:39:27,301
Speaker 2: And then I get on that app and you want

832
00:39:27,342 --> 00:39:29,421
Speaker 2: my email address, I have to make up a new

833
00:39:29,622 --> 00:39:33,622
Speaker 2: password and remember those Why do you need my email

834
00:39:33,622 --> 00:39:36,142
Speaker 2: address when I just want to buy a glass of wine? Like,

835
00:39:36,181 --> 00:39:38,422
Speaker 2: how is that any of your business? We have reached

836
00:39:38,661 --> 00:39:41,622
Speaker 2: peak app and I am writing. Are you guys equally

837
00:39:41,622 --> 00:39:42,261
Speaker 2: as irritated?

838
00:39:42,302 --> 00:39:47,542
Speaker 3: It's happy hour, isn't it? So? Sorry? No? I really

839
00:39:47,622 --> 00:39:50,261
Speaker 3: relate to this, and the problem with apps is that

840
00:39:50,342 --> 00:39:54,221
Speaker 3: you increasingly need them when you want to carve time

841
00:39:54,261 --> 00:39:56,461
Speaker 3: away from your phone, and yet you need the app

842
00:39:56,542 --> 00:39:58,261
Speaker 3: to carve time away from your phone. Let me give

843
00:39:58,261 --> 00:40:02,341
Speaker 3: you an example. My child, I gave him a toy dinosaur.

844
00:40:02,622 --> 00:40:05,942
Speaker 3: It literally had an app where you could enhance play

845
00:40:06,302 --> 00:40:08,181
Speaker 3: on the app. It's like, no, I'm trying to get

846
00:40:08,261 --> 00:40:13,622
Speaker 3: him away from to the toy dinosaur. Another example, wanted

847
00:40:13,661 --> 00:40:16,302
Speaker 3: to whiten my teeth. Drink too much coffee? Yeah, maybe

848
00:40:16,302 --> 00:40:18,661
Speaker 3: a bit too much? Red Wine had to download an

849
00:40:18,701 --> 00:40:22,022
Speaker 3: appy and I was like, well, is there gonna tell

850
00:40:22,062 --> 00:40:24,701
Speaker 3: me interesting things about my teeth? No? No, it told

851
00:40:24,701 --> 00:40:27,341
Speaker 3: me nothing interesting about my teeth. It merely enabled me

852
00:40:27,462 --> 00:40:29,742
Speaker 3: to use the teeth whitening device.

853
00:40:30,181 --> 00:40:32,702
Speaker 1: I've got apps to get into apps. That's really drives

854
00:40:32,741 --> 00:40:35,062
Speaker 1: me crazy when you have to like download an app

855
00:40:35,102 --> 00:40:37,022
Speaker 1: to give you the security thing to get into the

856
00:40:37,062 --> 00:40:39,022
Speaker 1: other app. I counted the apps on my phone. I've

857
00:40:39,022 --> 00:40:42,022
Speaker 1: got one hundred and eighteen. How many do you think

858
00:40:42,022 --> 00:40:44,181
Speaker 1: you've got? Because so I've got one hundred and eighteen

859
00:40:44,181 --> 00:40:46,342
Speaker 1: apps on my phone, and I think they're like cookery

860
00:40:46,342 --> 00:40:48,062
Speaker 1: books used to be. You know how people always say

861
00:40:48,102 --> 00:40:50,142
Speaker 1: that your average person has a few cookery books but

862
00:40:50,142 --> 00:40:53,142
Speaker 1: don't use any of them. Yeah, Or they say, you know,

863
00:40:53,181 --> 00:40:55,821
Speaker 1: if you're a proper cook, you've got lots of news too,

864
00:40:56,542 --> 00:40:59,342
Speaker 1: apps like that, right, I've got one hundred and seventeen

865
00:40:59,342 --> 00:41:02,262
Speaker 1: apps living on my phone, all mining my data, spying

866
00:41:02,342 --> 00:41:04,462
Speaker 1: on me wherever I go, telling each other what I'm

867
00:41:04,542 --> 00:41:07,622
Speaker 1: up to, having a little gossip, and I probably used

868
00:41:07,622 --> 00:41:08,102
Speaker 1: three of them.

869
00:41:08,221 --> 00:41:11,182
Speaker 2: I'm the same American. I have about that many apps.

870
00:41:11,181 --> 00:41:13,502
Speaker 2: The average Australian I think has eighty to ninety.

871
00:41:13,781 --> 00:41:15,741
Speaker 1: I'm overperforming, top of theboard.

872
00:41:15,822 --> 00:41:16,462
Speaker 3: Overperforming.

873
00:41:16,542 --> 00:41:18,102
Speaker 2: I think that's because my mum has two because she

874
00:41:18,102 --> 00:41:20,181
Speaker 2: doesn't know how to download them from the because she

875
00:41:20,181 --> 00:41:22,181
Speaker 2: has an Android. I do not know how to get

876
00:41:22,221 --> 00:41:25,182
Speaker 2: it out how that works. There are some hilarious apps.

877
00:41:25,181 --> 00:41:27,462
Speaker 2: There is one called is It Dark Outside? Guess what

878
00:41:27,542 --> 00:41:27,942
Speaker 2: it does?

879
00:41:28,382 --> 00:41:29,982
Speaker 3: Mrs Gilbert needs that one.

880
00:41:30,982 --> 00:41:32,221
Speaker 1: If you're in the case.

881
00:41:33,221 --> 00:41:34,902
Speaker 2: And my dad I don't know what it's called, but

882
00:41:34,982 --> 00:41:38,062
Speaker 2: he downloaded an app not so long ago that applauds

883
00:41:38,142 --> 00:41:41,381
Speaker 2: him every time he makes a joke, what yeah, tell

884
00:41:41,422 --> 00:41:43,462
Speaker 2: Brent about it? So he just goes on and it

885
00:41:43,502 --> 00:41:45,462
Speaker 2: applauds and we're just like, who told that about it?

886
00:41:45,502 --> 00:41:48,582
Speaker 3: There is an Australian Museum app shout Out which you

887
00:41:48,582 --> 00:41:51,301
Speaker 3: should download around Christmas time, which will tell you what

888
00:41:51,462 --> 00:41:53,821
Speaker 3: species of Christmas beetle you were seeing in your part

889
00:41:53,822 --> 00:41:55,862
Speaker 3: of Australia. See that's actually kind of fun.

890
00:41:55,982 --> 00:41:57,301
Speaker 1: I do. I have some of those ones that you

891
00:41:57,302 --> 00:41:59,462
Speaker 1: can point at a plant and it tells you what

892
00:41:59,542 --> 00:42:02,422
Speaker 1: plant it is. That's kind of helpful, but then sometimes

893
00:42:02,781 --> 00:42:05,022
Speaker 1: you need another app to tell you what to do

894
00:42:05,062 --> 00:42:06,861
Speaker 1: about the plant. Like it's just it's a lot, It's

895
00:42:06,902 --> 00:42:08,501
Speaker 1: a lot. I'm with you, excellent puff.

896
00:42:08,862 --> 00:42:11,062
Speaker 2: We have reached peak app. I just think let's just

897
00:42:11,181 --> 00:42:13,622
Speaker 2: all hold hands and go. We're not downloading another one.

898
00:42:13,741 --> 00:42:16,142
Speaker 1: We shan't ow loud as that is all we have

899
00:42:16,221 --> 00:42:19,221
Speaker 1: time for on this Wednesday. Thank you all for being

900
00:42:19,261 --> 00:42:21,821
Speaker 1: with us here this week and to our fabulous team

901
00:42:21,862 --> 00:42:23,502
Speaker 1: who help us put this show together. We're going to

902
00:42:23,542 --> 00:42:26,142
Speaker 1: be back in your ears tomorrow of course.

903
00:42:25,902 --> 00:42:28,821
Speaker 2: And if you are looking for something else to listen to.

904
00:42:29,142 --> 00:42:33,142
Speaker 2: On yesterday's episode, we unpacked the logs which were on

905
00:42:33,181 --> 00:42:35,982
Speaker 2: Sunday night. They went till four am, so you may

906
00:42:35,982 --> 00:42:38,741
Speaker 2: have missed some of it. Well, don't worry myself, emmadam you.

907
00:42:38,862 --> 00:42:43,381
Speaker 2: Hollyween Wright sat down, talked about Sam Pang's hilarious monologue.

908
00:42:43,542 --> 00:42:47,181
Speaker 2: We had to talk about Magda Zabanski. That is all there, Hamish.

909
00:42:47,302 --> 00:42:50,942
Speaker 2: There is a link in our show notes. As always, bye.

910
00:42:52,661 --> 00:42:55,542
Speaker 1: Shout out to any Mamma Mia subscribers listening. If you

911
00:42:55,701 --> 00:42:58,582
Speaker 1: love the show and you want to support us, subscribing

912
00:42:58,582 --> 00:43:01,022
Speaker 1: to MoMA Mia is the very best way to do it.

913
00:43:01,221 --> 00:43:03,062
Speaker 1: There's a link in the episode description.