WEBVTT - Do I Matter? & The Bathroom Taboo 0:00:08.234 --> 0:00:10.914 You're listening to a Mom with mea podcast. 0:00:15.914 --> 0:00:17.674 Welcome to Mummy out Loud. 0:00:17.714 --> 0:00:21.154 What women are actually talking about on Friday, the sixth 0:00:21.154 --> 0:00:21.914 of February. 0:00:22.034 --> 0:00:24.474 I am Jesse Stevens, I'm am Vern m. 0:00:24.754 --> 0:00:28.274 And I'm backbitches, but just for today, just I'm Mayor 0:00:28.354 --> 0:00:31.194 Friedman and I've got a new show and it launched 0:00:31.194 --> 0:00:33.473 this week. So I thought I would lock holy in 0:00:33.473 --> 0:00:35.074 a cupboard and come and tell you about it. 0:00:35.193 --> 0:00:35.833 Smile idea. 0:00:36.473 --> 0:00:40.033 Here's what's on our agenda for today, A crisis of Mattering. 0:00:40.394 --> 0:00:42.233 There is a new book out that I think will 0:00:42.273 --> 0:00:46.114 be as influential as Mel Robbins's Let Them Theory, and 0:00:46.153 --> 0:00:48.193 it will change how you think about your life. 0:00:48.473 --> 0:00:52.034 Plus good news, Valentine's Day is actually not the saddest 0:00:52.074 --> 0:00:54.753 day for single people. Bad news, there's a day that's 0:00:54.794 --> 0:00:55.754 much much worse. 0:00:57.194 --> 0:01:00.713 And there's recos because it's Friday. And spoiler alert, I'm 0:01:00.754 --> 0:01:01.994 going to tell you about my hair tintl. 0:01:02.074 --> 0:01:04.193 Of course you are the sixth I've got your life. 0:01:04.194 --> 0:01:04.634 We'll love it. 0:01:04.714 --> 0:01:06.154 I've got an update on my hair tin so you're 0:01:06.154 --> 0:01:06.753 gonna be happy. 0:01:06.834 --> 0:01:10.154 But first, may go on tell us about your new show, 0:01:10.234 --> 0:01:11.314 your new projects. 0:01:11.314 --> 0:01:14.034 I'm in my producer era, So who brought you that? 0:01:14.154 --> 0:01:15.034 How did you get that? 0:01:15.194 --> 0:01:19.674 I got this hat made out louder, says producer, and 0:01:19.794 --> 0:01:21.554 I was like, I need to buy a. 0:01:21.554 --> 0:01:24.674 Thing past me in the office with that on. And 0:01:24.714 --> 0:01:27.673 I muttered to no one all the gear and no idea, 0:01:28.274 --> 0:01:30.834 like yes, that's how I felt, because I think you 0:01:30.874 --> 0:01:32.794 were also wearing dark clothes. 0:01:32.594 --> 0:01:35.354 Wearing this black app Okay, I'm not joking. This was 0:01:35.394 --> 0:01:38.314 my favorite outfit on you. It was like a charcoal 0:01:38.554 --> 0:01:42.034 T shirt, like dark charcoal jeans and then your little 0:01:42.034 --> 0:01:42.954 pink added ass. 0:01:43.114 --> 0:01:45.514 Yeah, that was my one little gi I love that 0:01:45.874 --> 0:01:46.354 to my son. 0:01:46.434 --> 0:01:47.714 I think she wear that more often. 0:01:48.074 --> 0:01:51.554 Out louders I ignored, is like, absolutely nice, both of 0:01:51.554 --> 0:01:52.074 you shut up. 0:01:53.074 --> 0:01:54.994 I launched a show this week. 0:01:54.994 --> 0:01:56.954 It's something that I've been working on for about a 0:01:57.074 --> 0:02:01.754 year on and off, and it's a show for women 0:02:01.994 --> 0:02:05.034 kind of over forty. Although younger people have been listening 0:02:05.034 --> 0:02:08.513 and laughing a lot. It for women over forty who 0:02:08.554 --> 0:02:11.793 want to laugh right now because it's a lot out 0:02:11.794 --> 0:02:14.474 there right in our lives and in the world. 0:02:14.633 --> 0:02:17.474 And why aren't you hosting it? 0:02:17.594 --> 0:02:19.754 You've hosted a podcast or two in your time. 0:02:19.794 --> 0:02:23.834 I have, and also I work for free because it's 0:02:23.874 --> 0:02:27.233 my business. But last year I moved away from the mic. 0:02:27.314 --> 0:02:29.274 I wanted to have a bit of a different life 0:02:29.314 --> 0:02:31.434 and I don't want to be like out Loud is 0:02:31.514 --> 0:02:33.314 the show that I'm on and the show that I 0:02:33.354 --> 0:02:34.954 want to be on right with my girls. 0:02:36.034 --> 0:02:36.594 I wanted to. 0:02:36.554 --> 0:02:40.073 Try something different, and at first I sort of put 0:02:40.114 --> 0:02:42.434 myself in there when we were looking for the right 0:02:42.514 --> 0:02:44.914 cast and what the show should be. I put myself 0:02:44.954 --> 0:02:47.114 in there as a bit of a placeholder because I 0:02:47.194 --> 0:02:49.794 thought I can can sort of control it from the inside, 0:02:49.794 --> 0:02:51.474 because I had such a vision in my mind of 0:02:51.514 --> 0:02:54.234 what I wanted to be. But then you know what happened. 0:02:54.474 --> 0:02:56.274 I tried to turn it into out Loud. 0:02:57.314 --> 0:02:58.434 You're coming for us. 0:02:58.794 --> 0:03:01.234 I don't mean to brag, but the format works. 0:03:00.994 --> 0:03:05.834 But it was Timu out Loud for older people, and. 0:03:05.794 --> 0:03:10.074 It was just the I just respect for the host. 0:03:10.194 --> 0:03:11.754 You are not TEAMO out Loud. 0:03:11.874 --> 0:03:15.114 Well, I realized a couple of things. You guys are 0:03:15.194 --> 0:03:16.194 quite good at what you do. 0:03:16.794 --> 0:03:19.314 We've been trying to tell you that, and I didn't. 0:03:19.074 --> 0:03:21.994 Realize that until I got on the couch with people 0:03:22.074 --> 0:03:23.434 who were new to podcasting. 0:03:24.194 --> 0:03:29.194 You've managed to offend us and the entire team Sentence. 0:03:29.354 --> 0:03:30.154 Watch were trying to. 0:03:31.714 --> 0:03:34.874 Out of this hole that I've just dug, And what 0:03:34.914 --> 0:03:37.594 I realized is that, you know, it's funny. I remember 0:03:37.634 --> 0:03:40.514 working in magazines and a competitor was launching and we 0:03:40.514 --> 0:03:41.714 were like, what are they going to do? And my 0:03:41.714 --> 0:03:43.634 boss at the time said to me, if you ever 0:03:43.674 --> 0:03:45.554 want to know what someone's going to do, you just 0:03:45.554 --> 0:03:47.834 look at what they've done before, because people mostly just 0:03:47.874 --> 0:03:52.034 recreate what they've done before, right, Actually it works, Yeah, yeah, 0:03:52.074 --> 0:03:55.874 if it works. And I always remembered that, and then 0:03:55.914 --> 0:03:58.114 without even realizing it, that's what I tried to do 0:03:58.634 --> 0:04:01.434 with Unleashed, except I tried to do it with people 0:04:01.634 --> 0:04:05.434 who are incredibly talented and amazing in their field, like 0:04:05.794 --> 0:04:08.754 big guns in their world, but are all new to podcasting. 0:04:09.434 --> 0:04:11.634 Pretty much all of them are pretty new to podcasting 0:04:12.154 --> 0:04:12.994 and new to each other. 0:04:13.074 --> 0:04:13.914 They didn't know each other. 0:04:13.994 --> 0:04:17.314 Whereas we've built chemistry and this muscle by doing it 0:04:17.394 --> 0:04:20.634 five days a week for so many years all together. 0:04:20.553 --> 0:04:22.633 But we do a very specific thing, and the people 0:04:22.674 --> 0:04:27.194 that you chose are funny and experienced and experts in 0:04:27.234 --> 0:04:30.754 their field and have incredible storytellers. So it's like you 0:04:31.433 --> 0:04:34.954 had to lean into the skill set that they had 0:04:35.154 --> 0:04:35.993 rather than trying. 0:04:35.914 --> 0:04:40.234 Exactly while not also cannibalizing the show that I'm on 0:04:40.474 --> 0:04:43.354 and love with you guys, because that's just not smart 0:04:43.354 --> 0:04:45.474 business and it's too much for the audience to listen to. 0:04:45.633 --> 0:04:47.234 So what it is is different. You're going to learn 0:04:47.313 --> 0:04:48.074 nothing on this show. 0:04:48.113 --> 0:04:49.553 If you want to know what's going on the world 0:04:49.594 --> 0:04:51.833 going into pop culture, you're not going to find out 0:04:51.873 --> 0:04:54.274 by listening to this show. But if you need to 0:04:54.354 --> 0:04:57.234 just laugh and just listen to women your own age 0:04:57.633 --> 0:05:00.594 talking about, you know, whether it's a pop culture reference 0:05:01.313 --> 0:05:04.953 like Adamant or not Happy jan But you don't see 0:05:05.193 --> 0:05:08.794 You're not happy Janny. Do you know? Adamant is no 0:05:09.034 --> 0:05:12.794 even less so okay, so exactly, And sometimes it's just 0:05:12.873 --> 0:05:14.514 nice to be with people your own age, and I 0:05:14.553 --> 0:05:16.273 think particularly when you get to a certain age. 0:05:16.313 --> 0:05:17.474 And the women on the show are all. 0:05:17.393 --> 0:05:21.113 Over fifty except for Sally Hepworth, who is forty five. 0:05:21.193 --> 0:05:24.433 There's Mary Custas, Brunda Pap Andrea all friends of the show. 0:05:24.433 --> 0:05:27.394 They're all out loud listeners, Doctor Jenny Mansburg, Grace. 0:05:27.193 --> 0:05:29.314 Lambs, Grace slam is a twin. 0:05:29.193 --> 0:05:32.234 Too, Katherine mahoney. Yes, we've had a great chut and 0:05:32.313 --> 0:05:35.313 she's nuts in the best way there in the best 0:05:35.354 --> 0:05:36.514 way anyways. 0:05:36.553 --> 0:05:37.953 So it launches. 0:05:38.433 --> 0:05:39.153 Is it once a week? 0:05:39.313 --> 0:05:40.914 It's once a week on Tuesdays? 0:05:41.313 --> 0:05:44.594 Okay, can't cut out louds grass, it's not an instead 0:05:44.633 --> 0:05:47.794 of it's an as well as and it's just. 0:05:47.674 --> 0:05:49.154 A very different and it guess. 0:05:48.914 --> 0:05:51.833 For all jams like this episode this week about not showering. 0:05:51.953 --> 0:05:54.113 I'm like, yes, I've been telling that to everyone. Stop showering. 0:05:54.113 --> 0:05:56.073 How many times do you guys shower. 0:05:55.834 --> 0:05:56.833 Once every second day? 0:05:57.393 --> 0:05:58.953 Oh dear god, what about you? 0:05:59.993 --> 0:06:00.994 At least twice a day. 0:06:00.993 --> 0:06:03.873 I love a good show twice a day to you 0:06:03.993 --> 0:06:05.313 like the climate and the moment. 0:06:07.714 --> 0:06:09.954 Wow, and they're not long showers. 0:06:09.993 --> 0:06:12.433 A confession by someone on the pod this week who's 0:06:12.513 --> 0:06:14.074 quite notorious for not showering. 0:06:14.154 --> 0:06:15.794 And I feel so much better almost ever. 0:06:16.674 --> 0:06:19.154 Anyway, we'll put a link in our show notes. We'd 0:06:19.154 --> 0:06:20.593 love to have you listen and love to know what 0:06:20.633 --> 0:06:21.033 you think. 0:06:21.193 --> 0:06:22.113 Yeah. Super proud. 0:06:23.474 --> 0:06:26.553 A woman named Jennifer B. Wallace. She's a journalist and 0:06:26.594 --> 0:06:27.113 an author. 0:06:27.553 --> 0:06:31.033 She says that everyone you meet is walking around with 0:06:31.073 --> 0:06:33.873 an invisible sign hanging off their neck, and that invisible 0:06:33.914 --> 0:06:39.594 sign reads tell me do I Matter? And it is sad, 0:06:39.633 --> 0:06:42.274 but it's also so true. That's the subject of her 0:06:42.354 --> 0:06:45.353 brand new book called Mattering, The Secret to a Life 0:06:45.393 --> 0:06:48.234 of Deep Connection and Purpose. And interestingly, The New York 0:06:48.234 --> 0:06:50.393 Times pointed out that there are a number of books 0:06:50.393 --> 0:06:52.873 on mattering that have suddenly come out, so it feels 0:06:52.914 --> 0:06:55.273 like it's going to be a word that really defines 0:06:55.313 --> 0:06:56.154 twenty twenty six. 0:06:56.193 --> 0:06:59.474 Because purpose is a bit exhausting, Like when everyone's talking 0:06:59.513 --> 0:07:01.433 about purpose, you feel like, oh god, I've got to 0:07:01.433 --> 0:07:03.913 find a purpose as well as getting a perhaps meeting, 0:07:03.953 --> 0:07:04.354 you know what. 0:07:04.513 --> 0:07:07.393 I also feel like purpose has somehow been le to 0:07:07.474 --> 0:07:11.074 making money, like a purpose has also been like find 0:07:11.114 --> 0:07:14.354 your purpose and then make it into a business, whereas 0:07:14.393 --> 0:07:17.914 mattering is like, I feel like a completely different thing. 0:07:18.874 --> 0:07:20.674 And so the more I've. 0:07:20.554 --> 0:07:23.674 Read about this book, at first, I was like mattering, like, yeah, 0:07:23.714 --> 0:07:26.954 everyone wants to matter. Fine, But the more I've read, 0:07:27.034 --> 0:07:28.754 the more I've gone, oh, Okay, this is a really 0:07:28.794 --> 0:07:32.994 important cultural moment. Mattering to who, Well, that's the thing, right, 0:07:33.154 --> 0:07:36.034 It's about mattering to others. And she says that we're 0:07:36.074 --> 0:07:39.114 obsessed with self care, and we think laying in the 0:07:39.154 --> 0:07:42.514 bath or you know, reading a book or whatever is 0:07:42.554 --> 0:07:46.953 going to be the thing that rehabilitates us. But in fact, 0:07:47.474 --> 0:07:50.434 the best self care is all about relationships, and so 0:07:50.474 --> 0:07:54.714 it's about mattering to others, but also mattering to yourself. 0:07:54.754 --> 0:07:56.593 And she kind of gets to that, but she says 0:07:57.114 --> 0:08:00.594 that we're in a crisis of mattering. So we have 0:08:00.674 --> 0:08:03.154 this sense that we are not valued or our actions 0:08:03.234 --> 0:08:07.354 don't matter, and that leads to depression, anxiety, addiction, all 0:08:07.354 --> 0:08:11.034 of the things that we see work, dissatisfaction. 0:08:10.234 --> 0:08:11.074 And loneliness. 0:08:11.274 --> 0:08:14.074 And she says that the question of whether or not 0:08:14.114 --> 0:08:16.833 you matter is the most fundamental human question. 0:08:17.034 --> 0:08:18.833 We ask it our whole lives. It's what separates us 0:08:18.874 --> 0:08:19.434 from animals. 0:08:20.594 --> 0:08:24.913 Mattering, she says, isn't like a trophy we collect at 0:08:25.234 --> 0:08:27.594 twenty five and put on a shelf and go, I've 0:08:27.634 --> 0:08:28.154 achieved it. 0:08:28.314 --> 0:08:28.714 I matter. 0:08:29.034 --> 0:08:34.274 It is always in transition. So whether it's retirement and 0:08:34.394 --> 0:08:38.674 empty nest, a loss of a job, grieving someone you're 0:08:38.714 --> 0:08:43.314 really close to, moving house somewhere, you can totally undo 0:08:43.394 --> 0:08:45.874 our sense of mattering, and then we have to rebuild 0:08:45.874 --> 0:08:48.394 it again. And she's got some really good strategies for 0:08:48.514 --> 0:08:50.314 like where to find it if you feel like you've 0:08:50.354 --> 0:08:50.874 lost it. 0:08:51.034 --> 0:08:54.594 Breakups as well, I think, yeah, maybe a real because 0:08:54.594 --> 0:08:57.434 it was like I mattered to you, and if someone 0:08:57.434 --> 0:08:59.274 breaks up with you, you're like, well you just said that, 0:08:59.354 --> 0:09:00.994 I actually don't. 0:09:00.834 --> 0:09:02.354 And I vote, do I matter at all? 0:09:02.434 --> 0:09:03.914 And I won't ongoing? Yeah? 0:09:03.954 --> 0:09:06.434 And if I don't matter to the person who matters 0:09:06.434 --> 0:09:09.594 the most to me, where does that leave me? 0:09:10.154 --> 0:09:10.474 Yeah? 0:09:10.514 --> 0:09:13.714 And so that's why it's like this real crisis. Mia. 0:09:13.994 --> 0:09:18.074 Does this ring true to you, this idea of there 0:09:18.074 --> 0:09:20.674 are different stages in your life where you're confronted with 0:09:20.794 --> 0:09:21.994 like a crisis of mattering. 0:09:23.274 --> 0:09:26.794 I think this is so true and profound. I've been 0:09:26.834 --> 0:09:30.354 thinking about this so much since you said you wanted 0:09:30.394 --> 0:09:32.474 to talk about it today. And the reason it's so 0:09:32.634 --> 0:09:39.354 primal is because where essentially primal tribal beings, and in 0:09:39.874 --> 0:09:44.554 ye olden times, being of value within your tribe is 0:09:44.634 --> 0:09:47.194 the only way you could survive if you were overlooked 0:09:47.194 --> 0:09:50.274 in your tribe, if you didn't matter to anyone, if 0:09:50.274 --> 0:09:52.434 you're invisible, no one was going to protect you, no 0:09:52.474 --> 0:09:54.994 one was going to feed you. You had to show 0:09:55.074 --> 0:09:58.394 your value, right, So our sense of self worth as 0:09:58.474 --> 0:10:01.953 individuals is about and everyone's like, you've just got to 0:10:01.994 --> 0:10:04.354 be good with yourself and you've just got to matter 0:10:04.434 --> 0:10:07.953 to yourself. And it's like, nah, Like it would be 0:10:08.034 --> 0:10:10.874 nice if that was true, but we are hardwired to 0:10:11.074 --> 0:10:14.434 need to matter to other people around us for our 0:10:14.474 --> 0:10:17.274 own survival. So that's why I think when you go 0:10:17.394 --> 0:10:21.634 through big transitions in your life, like this age for 0:10:21.834 --> 0:10:24.274 a lot of women, you know, being in perimenopause and 0:10:24.314 --> 0:10:28.474 then menopause and in a culture that worships youth, and 0:10:28.474 --> 0:10:32.154 that was part of Unleashed, it's that feeling of hang on. 0:10:32.234 --> 0:10:34.874 The society is telling me I don't matter. My kids 0:10:34.874 --> 0:10:36.794 have grown up. They don't need If I have kids, 0:10:36.794 --> 0:10:39.434 they don't need me. I don't matter to my kids. 0:10:40.314 --> 0:10:42.154 Like even when your kids are getting a bit older 0:10:42.194 --> 0:10:44.234 and they go from primary school to high school, I 0:10:44.234 --> 0:10:48.434 remember the Principles saying to us on induction day, you're 0:10:48.474 --> 0:10:51.674 going from being a manager to being a consultant to 0:10:51.754 --> 0:10:54.194 your child, you don't matter as much as you did before. 0:10:55.314 --> 0:10:58.634 And around job and employment, that's why working is such 0:10:58.674 --> 0:11:02.274 a fundamental human need because it's like I'm doing something 0:11:02.314 --> 0:11:06.474 people rely on me. I have not a purpose, maybe 0:11:06.634 --> 0:11:07.794 a universe versal purpose. 0:11:07.874 --> 0:11:10.634 But I can see the impact of my action. 0:11:10.794 --> 0:11:12.474 Yes it matters, Yeah what I do. 0:11:12.634 --> 0:11:14.954 Yeah, I think what you said in the beginning, Jesse, 0:11:15.154 --> 0:11:18.394 about how this could be as big as mel robins 0:11:18.514 --> 0:11:21.474 let them. I think this is a direct response to 0:11:21.514 --> 0:11:24.114 if you let them too much, and then you're constantly 0:11:24.154 --> 0:11:26.034 going let them, let them, they're going to break up 0:11:26.074 --> 0:11:27.954 with me, let them, they're moving out. Let them, and 0:11:27.994 --> 0:11:30.274 then suddenly you're by yourself because you've let them all 0:11:30.634 --> 0:11:30.954 just go. 0:11:31.194 --> 0:11:34.114 That's very smart. So like nothing matters, let them, nothing matters. 0:11:34.154 --> 0:11:37.074 And they were like, oh my god, nothing matters. Everyone, 0:11:37.114 --> 0:11:39.194 please like not something matter. 0:11:39.954 --> 0:11:40.634 Stick to let them. 0:11:40.794 --> 0:11:44.314 And that's what Wallace actually says is that this like lol, 0:11:44.394 --> 0:11:48.074 I don't care, loll apathy, Lol, this is all cringe 0:11:48.394 --> 0:11:51.754 vibe that we're culturally in has kind of given way 0:11:51.914 --> 0:11:55.634 to this crisis of mattering, as she calls it. I 0:11:55.674 --> 0:12:00.953 really like what she says about asking other people for help, 0:12:01.034 --> 0:12:03.474 and she calls it extending a sense of mattering. 0:12:04.034 --> 0:12:06.634 So it was like, oh, that's why I ask my. 0:12:06.794 --> 0:12:11.074 Dadd to come over and fix my door, because my 0:12:11.194 --> 0:12:14.994 dad has to like, yes, you have to do erectly, 0:12:15.074 --> 0:12:17.994 and that's my dad like, and you can feel such 0:12:18.074 --> 0:12:22.674 guilt asking anyone for anything, but we're actually doing each 0:12:22.714 --> 0:12:27.554 other favors all the time by giving each other purpose. 0:12:27.634 --> 0:12:31.074 And she talks about there are people who look around 0:12:31.074 --> 0:12:32.714 and go, who do I matter to? And why do 0:12:32.794 --> 0:12:36.234 I matter? But then there's this other crisis of mattering 0:12:36.314 --> 0:12:41.314 too much, And there will be some people who go, like, 0:12:41.394 --> 0:12:44.154 if something happened to me, my world would crumble because 0:12:44.154 --> 0:12:46.394 I care for my aging parents, I care for my children, 0:12:46.554 --> 0:12:48.354 I care for my husband, I care for my blood 0:12:48.394 --> 0:12:51.634 like they almost matter too much. The reason why you 0:12:51.674 --> 0:12:53.874 can still feel quite empty from that is because a 0:12:53.914 --> 0:12:56.714 lot of those people, a lot of those tasks are thankless, 0:12:57.194 --> 0:13:00.114 so the mattering. Often with aging parents, you don't get 0:13:00.194 --> 0:13:00.794 the back. 0:13:00.634 --> 0:13:06.834 And about to be even thicker, do you sometimes feel? 0:13:08.034 --> 0:13:11.594 I remember thinking I just need ten minutes when nobody's 0:13:11.634 --> 0:13:14.994 touching mummy or talking to mummy, including. 0:13:14.634 --> 0:13:18.594 Daddy, there's an end to you, and I feel. 0:13:18.114 --> 0:13:22.394 Like I am just too intrinsic to everybody's well being 0:13:22.714 --> 0:13:23.434 matter too much. 0:13:23.554 --> 0:13:27.114 Yeah, I wanted that, but then I thought about my 0:13:27.194 --> 0:13:30.234 mental health since Luna, and this is not everyone's experience, 0:13:30.314 --> 0:13:33.714 but I wonder if it's actually been the antidote to 0:13:33.754 --> 0:13:35.833 a feeling of not mattering. So I think when I've 0:13:35.834 --> 0:13:38.554 had kind of these moments in my life where I've 0:13:38.554 --> 0:13:42.754 looked around and gone purpose meaning blah blah blah, and 0:13:43.034 --> 0:13:46.594 I've been kind of confused, it's been a difficult question 0:13:46.674 --> 0:13:49.154 to answer. But there is something a lot of people say, 0:13:49.354 --> 0:13:51.274 just parenting make you happier. They want to know, like, 0:13:51.794 --> 0:13:54.354 you know, is motherhood the key to happiness or whatever? 0:13:54.434 --> 0:13:55.954 And a lot of parents are kind of like, ah, 0:13:55.994 --> 0:13:57.394 I don't really know how to answer that, And I 0:13:57.434 --> 0:13:57.714 was like. 0:13:58.114 --> 0:14:00.074 This is what it is. It makes me feel like 0:14:00.114 --> 0:14:00.594 I matter. 0:14:01.114 --> 0:14:02.754 Like do you know what else makes you feel like that? 0:14:02.874 --> 0:14:04.114 A pet? Dogs? 0:14:04.234 --> 0:14:06.713 And there's a saying about if you've got teenagers in 0:14:06.754 --> 0:14:08.714 the house, you want someone to be happy to see 0:14:08.714 --> 0:14:09.354 you when you get home. 0:14:09.434 --> 0:14:13.554 Get a dog, and it's true, like I matter so 0:14:13.834 --> 0:14:15.234 much and that dog. 0:14:15.314 --> 0:14:18.234 I was reading this kind of theory about how there 0:14:18.234 --> 0:14:21.674 are different transitions in life. There are what they call 0:14:21.754 --> 0:14:24.554 anticipated events, so for. 0:14:24.394 --> 0:14:27.274 Example, I've got baby babies. 0:14:27.554 --> 0:14:31.554 There are unanticipated events you lose someone suddenly, and then 0:14:31.594 --> 0:14:32.634 there are non events. 0:14:32.634 --> 0:14:34.114 And I thought this one was so interesting. 0:14:34.474 --> 0:14:38.034 It's the pregnancy that never happened, it's the promotion you 0:14:38.114 --> 0:14:41.314 never got, it's the and it's said that all of 0:14:41.354 --> 0:14:44.954 those thrust upon you a sense of like I need 0:14:44.994 --> 0:14:46.434 to face again why I matter? 0:14:48.154 --> 0:14:50.434 It's actually quite scary, and it's so hard I guess 0:14:50.474 --> 0:14:53.194 to voice that because it becomes kind of well with me, 0:14:53.914 --> 0:14:55.514 like you just need someone to sit with you and 0:14:55.554 --> 0:14:57.874 be like, you'll get the next one or be fine. 0:14:58.274 --> 0:15:00.954 But that period of time can go on forever, even 0:15:00.994 --> 0:15:03.674 though it's happening initially to you for those two seconds. 0:15:03.874 --> 0:15:07.194 Do you mean that's because it's a version of yourself 0:15:07.234 --> 0:15:09.314 that never gets realized. 0:15:09.434 --> 0:15:12.314 That you anticipated and that you expected. So I think 0:15:12.314 --> 0:15:16.234 I've listened to women. So for example, Elizabeth Day has 0:15:16.274 --> 0:15:18.474 talked about how she really wanted children and she had 0:15:18.514 --> 0:15:21.794 these issues with fertility and her all her focus on 0:15:21.834 --> 0:15:24.834 mattering was in her position as a mother, which did 0:15:24.874 --> 0:15:27.594 not happen for her, and it was like, in order 0:15:27.674 --> 0:15:30.794 to recover, she had to go how do I matter? 0:15:30.874 --> 0:15:31.314 Elsewhere? 0:15:31.754 --> 0:15:34.434 And she managed to shift that and is now completely 0:15:34.674 --> 0:15:37.194 happy and at peace with the decision. But there was 0:15:37.234 --> 0:15:39.874 always going to be that moment of like this thing 0:15:39.954 --> 0:15:40.714 hasn't happened. 0:15:40.794 --> 0:15:42.394 I thought I was sort of promised. 0:15:42.914 --> 0:15:45.154 Did you ever read men are from Mars, Women Are 0:15:45.194 --> 0:15:45.754 from Venus? 0:15:45.874 --> 0:15:46.554 I didn't know. 0:15:47.194 --> 0:15:48.994 It was fine author called John Gray. It was really 0:15:48.994 --> 0:15:51.394 big in the sort of the eighties and nineties. There's 0:15:51.434 --> 0:15:53.554 some really you know, some people don't like it, but 0:15:53.594 --> 0:15:57.994 I actually found it so interesting. It's of course some 0:15:58.114 --> 0:16:01.634 generalizations about gender. Certainly a lot of them rang true 0:16:01.634 --> 0:16:05.114 for me. But one of them is about men. Men 0:16:05.274 --> 0:16:10.394 need to feel needed, women need to feel heard, and 0:16:10.434 --> 0:16:14.474 they're different. So often men will be where they struggle 0:16:14.514 --> 0:16:17.194 most with the women in their lives is is she's 0:16:17.274 --> 0:16:19.874 like this, and this is happening, and that's happening, and 0:16:19.874 --> 0:16:22.714 he's like, how can I fix it? Because that's where 0:16:22.994 --> 0:16:26.874 his value to the tribe. He's hardwired to believe that 0:16:27.354 --> 0:16:29.634 being of value to the tribe is of. 0:16:29.754 --> 0:16:32.194 In order for him to matter, and needs to solve. 0:16:31.994 --> 0:16:36.634 Correct And the problem is this is getting sort of big. 0:16:36.674 --> 0:16:40.474 But since women's liberation and feminism, where we are encouraged 0:16:40.514 --> 0:16:43.034 quite rightly to not depend on a man and to 0:16:43.074 --> 0:16:46.514 be able to do things for ourselves, their sense of 0:16:46.594 --> 0:16:50.114 purpose and mattering has become a little bit confused. 0:16:50.914 --> 0:16:52.914 So that brings me to something I couldn't stop thinking 0:16:52.954 --> 0:16:55.514 about in all of this, which is the disillusionment of 0:16:56.114 --> 0:16:58.834 young men and the danger of that. It's like when 0:16:58.874 --> 0:17:01.674 you feel like you don't matter, and this is like 0:17:01.714 --> 0:17:04.994 Scott Galloway has talked about it for young disenfranchised men, 0:17:05.033 --> 0:17:07.874 that's really dangerous. There can be a lash out. There 0:17:07.914 --> 0:17:11.313 can be like whether it's violence, whether it's addiction, whether 0:17:11.354 --> 0:17:15.474 it's it's like you end up finding something and that 0:17:15.514 --> 0:17:18.593 can be corrosive, or that can be like whatever it is, 0:17:18.594 --> 0:17:19.914 you try and fill that void. 0:17:20.434 --> 0:17:21.553 Women are often more. 0:17:21.474 --> 0:17:24.114 Likely to take it out on themselves, Yeah, and to 0:17:24.314 --> 0:17:25.234 internalize it a. 0:17:25.274 --> 0:17:25.914 Little bit more. 0:17:26.194 --> 0:17:28.834 But it's like it becomes a social issue if you 0:17:28.834 --> 0:17:30.474 have a whole community of people who feel like they 0:17:30.474 --> 0:17:33.714 don't matter, whether it's unemployment or whether it's they can't 0:17:33.714 --> 0:17:37.234 build significant relationships, and that society essentially collapse. 0:17:36.834 --> 0:17:39.313 It But then is it also us telling ourselves that 0:17:39.354 --> 0:17:41.874 we matter and then also telling men that they matter? 0:17:42.274 --> 0:17:44.754 Yeah, do we have to tell them that? That's a coin? 0:17:45.194 --> 0:17:49.114 In countries where there's compulsory military service, that's really interesting too, 0:17:49.314 --> 0:17:52.994 because the time after you leave school and your life 0:17:53.034 --> 0:17:58.553 is fairly well regimented, you can suddenly get a little bit. 0:17:58.434 --> 0:17:59.273 Lost after that. 0:17:59.354 --> 0:18:00.874 I mean, if you don't really know what you want 0:18:00.914 --> 0:18:02.834 to do after school, if you don't want to do 0:18:02.914 --> 0:18:06.674 a particular thing or study a particular course, you can 0:18:06.714 --> 0:18:09.674 feel about like how do I matter? Because no one 0:18:09.714 --> 0:18:11.434 cares if I'm at school or not, like all of 0:18:11.474 --> 0:18:12.914 the stuff that you actually. 0:18:12.914 --> 0:18:13.954 Again and you're invisible. 0:18:14.034 --> 0:18:16.274 Yeah, you're invisible, and so it's like I don't matter, 0:18:16.314 --> 0:18:17.714 and I think that's one of the reasons that I 0:18:17.794 --> 0:18:18.914 dropped out of UNI. 0:18:19.154 --> 0:18:22.674 Apparently if you feel like you're having a crisis of this. 0:18:22.754 --> 0:18:25.553 There's an acronym that she uses and it's said, so 0:18:25.594 --> 0:18:28.634