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Speaker 2: Acknowledge that it will be a bit rocky. You know
Speaker 2: you might not fall on your feet first. Go give
Speaker 2: yourself a bit of a break, don't be too hard
Speaker 2: on yourself. And it's okay to look back and think,
Speaker 2: oh God, I shouldn't have left, and but don't stay
Speaker 2: in that space for too long. Own what you're doing
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Speaker 2: and still as read. The only thing we can control
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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Seas the Yay Podcast. Busy and happy
Speaker 1: are not the same thing. We too rarely question what
Speaker 1: makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but
Speaker 1: rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than
Speaker 1: one way. So this is a platform to hear and
Speaker 1: explore the stories of those who found lives. They adore,
Speaker 1: the good, bad and ugly. The best and worst days
Speaker 1: will bear all the facets of seizing your yay. I'm
Speaker 1: Sarah Davidson or a spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned fu
Speaker 1: entrepreneur who's wapped the suits and heels to co found
Speaker 1: matcha maiden and matcha milk bar. The YA is a
Speaker 1: series of conversations on finding a life you love and
Speaker 1: exploring the self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment along the way. Well,
Speaker 1: I can't believe we've reached our last guest interview for
Speaker 1: the year. My gosh. We've had some touch and go
Speaker 1: moments in twenty twenty one, in and out of lockdown
Speaker 1: and therefore in and out of motivation, with rapidly changing
Speaker 1: schedules to juggle and everything in between. But we made it,
Speaker 1: and I'm so proud of the YA We've created in
Speaker 1: our third year together. I can't say enough how grateful
Speaker 1: I am for you, lovely yighborhood. I know I say
Speaker 1: it all the time, Oh my gosh, I bang on
Speaker 1: about it all the time, but you have genuinely kept
Speaker 1: me saying this year and given me so many reasons
Speaker 1: to smile with our healthcare worker care pack sendouts, our
Speaker 1: Q and A episodes two mini series which was a
Speaker 1: brand new idea, and just the lovely messages that you
Speaker 1: guys take the time to send through each week about
Speaker 1: particular episodes and how they impact your life. It just
Speaker 1: makes my world so full of YEA. Even in the
Speaker 1: midst of a pandemic. I will be taking a proper
Speaker 1: break over the festive season for quite a few weeks
Speaker 1: this time, just really need to refill the cup. But
Speaker 1: as usual, we'll be re releasing some favorites in case
Speaker 1: you missed any and we'll be back early next year
Speaker 1: with Ange of course as well, joining us vias of
Speaker 1: our lives to bring you bigger and better Yay next year.
Speaker 1: For today, I couldn't think of a more perfect guest
Speaker 1: or should I say guests to finish off the year
Speaker 1: on a high than the two amazing humans that you're
Speaker 1: about to hear from. And this episode is all the
Speaker 1: more special because despite a massing and enormous community with
Speaker 1: whom they share so much of their lives on social media,
Speaker 1: this is the first time ever that they've shared their
Speaker 1: story on a podcast and I'm still pinching myself that
Speaker 1: they said yes, of course, I'm talking about the real
Speaker 1: dads of Melbourne aka Jared and Michael, Doug and Tierney,
Speaker 1: who give the beloved sitcom Modern Family such a good
Speaker 1: run for its money, sharing their beautiful life as parents
Speaker 1: to son Reid, who was born via a surrogate and
Speaker 1: now as foster parents to baby Junior. They probably need
Speaker 1: no introduction to most of you, stealing hearts all over
Speaker 1: the nation and beyond for their hilariously down to worth
Speaker 1: recounting of the ups and downs of family life. If
Speaker 1: you haven't heard about them yet, you are in for
Speaker 1: an absolute treat. And even if you do know them,
Speaker 1: given that this is their first podcast ever, this is
Speaker 1: the real Dads as you've never heard them before, covering
Speaker 1: everything from coming out, meeting and falling in love at Quantus,
Speaker 1: the process of surrogacy, and teaching your kids to embrace
Speaker 1: their uniqueness. We're very lucky to share an incredible manager.
Speaker 1: Shout out to Genevieve at day Management, who we absolutely
Speaker 1: adore and I live around the corner from the Dads.
Speaker 1: But there is so much in this one that I
Speaker 1: hadn't heard before. I usually give away more teasers of
Speaker 1: what's to come in the intro, but my words just
Speaker 1: can't do their wit, honesty, love and genuineness, justice. There's laughter, tears,
Speaker 1: and every other emotion in between in this one. I'll
Speaker 1: let Jared and Michael tell you their story themselves, and
Speaker 1: if you're not as in love with them as I am,
Speaker 1: by the end, I'd be surprised. Jared and Michael aka
Speaker 1: Real Dad's Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3: Thanks so much, Sarah, thanks so much for having us.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to have you guys here today. I
Speaker 1: always love chatting with you, but particularly as this is
Speaker 1: your very first podcast ever. It feels like a real
Speaker 1: honor to be able to share your story for the
Speaker 1: first time in this format. And it's been such a
Speaker 1: long time since we saw each other in person.
Speaker 2: Well, I saw you up the street, but we couldn't
Speaker 2: go in the back of your car taking a photo of.
Speaker 1: As soon as I heard my name, I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, it's happened. I've made it onto influences
Speaker 1: in the wild and Nick trying to get a nice
Speaker 1: candid photo of us in the boot of the car
Speaker 1: as if we were actually like, we chose the most
Speaker 1: obscure side streets so we wouldn't see any other humans
Speaker 1: next in it.
Speaker 3: Hums.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you had Junior with you, guys. I think
Speaker 1: it was one of your first walks and it was
Speaker 1: just so beautiful.
Speaker 3: That was pretty amazing.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, how special. And I cannot wait to
Speaker 1: dive into this brand new addition to your family. But
Speaker 1: also the whole journey of how you formed your wonderful family.
Speaker 1: And I love that you guys think you're really boring
Speaker 1: and uninteresting, but we all hold onto every single detail
Speaker 1: of your life so thrilled to dive into it today.
Speaker 1: But before we jump into that, I love to start
Speaker 1: by breaking the eyes with what you guys think is
Speaker 1: the most down to earth thing about you, even though
Speaker 1: sometimes it seems like a jarring question or it seems
Speaker 1: really straightforward. I think if people see only you guys
Speaker 1: on social media, knowing that you have such a big following,
Speaker 1: and it also often seems like you've got such clear
Speaker 1: direction around, you know what you want out of life,
Speaker 1: what your priorities are, how you know your family values.
Speaker 1: And I think we all forget that all of us
Speaker 1: have totally normal things, doubts and worries and like quirky
Speaker 1: habits that we have. So what's something really normal about
Speaker 1: you guys in between all the all the social gloss.
Speaker 3: Yeah, as you say, I think we only share, like
Speaker 3: anybody on social media, highlights of your life or you know,
Speaker 3: things you're passionate about. So I think we're pretty transparent
Speaker 3: and we share down to earth. Yeah, spects of our life.
Speaker 3: I'm sitting Michael from the top up, I'm in a
Speaker 3: share from the bottom.
Speaker 1: Down, I'm in track pants, same babe.
Speaker 3: That pretty much represents who we are, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think what you touched on before about is
Speaker 2: just being pretty boring. I think we're average guys, you know,
Speaker 2: doing doing life. Yeah. Yeah, we're obviously very proud dads.
Speaker 2: And that's the most important part of her life is
Speaker 2: read so hopefully creating a safe and secure mind socurre
Speaker 2: in moment for him and you know, watching him grow
Speaker 2: and learn and be able to navigate this tricky world.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I think you guys do that so well with
Speaker 1: such grace and also such honesty. You kind of it's
Speaker 1: not like you're telling this story retrospectively. You've actually really
Speaker 1: brought a lot of your followers along the ride from
Speaker 1: the very beginning and navigating all the different chapters, and
Speaker 1: you know that you share a lot of that along
Speaker 1: the way. And I think you've become really really big
Speaker 1: role models for so many people who have families that
Speaker 1: look a little bit different to what you know, the
Speaker 1: conventional or traditional family structure looks like, and are really
Speaker 1: helping others embrace and own that, which is so beautiful.
Speaker 1: I have so much admiration for you both.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you. Yeah, difference is something that I
Speaker 2: think should be celebrated, something that we're really proud of
Speaker 2: to be, you know, challenging that social norm.
Speaker 1: I suppose, yeah, And I think you do it so well.
Speaker 1: And I think the more that people can see, like,
Speaker 1: I think one of the big problems with representation in
Speaker 1: any area is that people often look at the landscape
Speaker 1: and can't see themselves, or they can't see their family,
Speaker 1: or they can't see their situation represented anywhere because either
Speaker 1: people don't share it or haven't felt comfortable, or it's
Speaker 1: stigmatized or whatever. But I love how you guys are
Speaker 1: just putting your modern family out there and sharing all
Speaker 1: the parts of it that make it hard and far
Speaker 1: and easy and beautiful. And yeah, I think the real
Speaker 1: dads is it's replaced modern family as a channel for
Speaker 1: me to watch and I kind of just want you
Speaker 1: guys to be like my dad's also.
Speaker 3: After all these years is our username. It's something that
Speaker 3: Michael wants to keep it. He's happy to keep it
Speaker 3: because he actually just doesn't care what the name of it.
Speaker 3: It makes me cringe, Like the Real Dad a lot
Speaker 3: of new you know, if you get a new follow.
Speaker 2: Or something like Real Dads.
Speaker 3: You know, used to sound like a couple of wan
Speaker 3: because it was a stupid spin off of a TV
Speaker 3: series before it even was an Australian TV series. It
Speaker 3: was just The Real Housewives of OC or something that
Speaker 3: I used to watch and it was just a username.
Speaker 3: Whereas we did laughed having a bit of a life.
Speaker 3: We didn't think it'd be that popular.
Speaker 1: It's so popular. It turns out you've got like an
Speaker 1: entire tribe of people following you. I also love how
Speaker 1: it's Real Dads and like we expect that it's a
Speaker 1: shared account, you'll hear both voices, but really it's just
Speaker 1: Jared and Michael like vaguely tolerating and like sometimes being
Speaker 1: in the background.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's both of us to contribute to it.
Speaker 3: It's you know, like I'm like, can I share that?
Speaker 3: Mark's like, fuck, no, you cannot share that, so therefore
Speaker 3: it doesn't chair. But he also edits a lot of
Speaker 3: the scripts. I don't ever ever share anything, not one
Speaker 3: images on there that you've not looked at and gone, okay,
Speaker 3: you're representing our family, you can do that. So there
Speaker 3: is definitely the creative.
Speaker 2: I'm definitely the witty one with a wicked sense of humor.
Speaker 1: Oh, I think both of you are. I mean we
Speaker 1: just before we started recording, we're talking about the great
Speaker 1: circle carpet gage that's been happening in your family of late.
Speaker 1: There was a.
Speaker 2: I stepped over that rug for two weeks trying to
Speaker 2: lay it at the bottom of the stairs.
Speaker 3: It was like laid out on the ground thing. Heavens
Speaker 3: we haven't had any visitors because like it was a trip.
Speaker 1: Oh wait, I mean I was looking at it, thinking
Speaker 1: that's a disaster. I mean, read has Dad's classes in
Speaker 1: the house, Like, but I love how Michael just like
Speaker 1: stepped right over it, like no, I will cut it later.
Speaker 1: I think it ended up in a bed at one point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3: I was like, well, tried to get it in his car,
Speaker 3: Like I was down in the garage heaving that bloody
Speaker 3: thing into the car, and then I couldn't get the
Speaker 3: door closed.
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, this is no, this is just not
Speaker 2: what I should be doing with it.
Speaker 3: So I bought it back upstairs and then I moved
Speaker 3: to a couple more locations, and yes, ended up in
Speaker 3: the bed Michael.
Speaker 2: He has to go to bed sometimes.
Speaker 1: Basically, Jared had a car, but he wanted to cut
Speaker 1: into a circle. Michael had to cut it into a circle.
Speaker 1: It was a big disaster. It didn't get cut into
Speaker 1: a circle. And then when it did get cut into
Speaker 1: the circle, it was laid out like only the cutouts
Speaker 1: from around the circle were cut out and put into
Speaker 1: the room, which I also think is beautiful. So you
Speaker 1: say that Jared is the joker in the relationship, Michael,
Speaker 1: but I don't believe that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2: It was pretty funny Jared. It amusing, but I thought
Speaker 2: it was absolutely hysterical.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Well, the very first section of this show,
Speaker 1: as you guys probably already know, is Your Way TA
Speaker 1: or Your Pathya, which is pretty much tracing back all
Speaker 1: the chapters of your life before the one. Like you mentioned,
Speaker 1: you know, you have a lot of people who have
Speaker 1: started following you recently and walk into your life and
Speaker 1: presents as if you know. I think we just forget
Speaker 1: that everyone has been through a lot of angst and
Speaker 1: a lot of diversions and not knowing what your purpose
Speaker 1: or your goals in life. Are along the way, and
Speaker 1: I love tracing back through them to show that just
Speaker 1: life is not linear. Finding your joy and finding your
Speaker 1: partner in yea is also not linear, and taking the
Speaker 1: right time, you know, to become the person you are
Speaker 1: is never a kind of an overnight success. So can
Speaker 1: you guys take us back to your younger selves, what
Speaker 1: you were like as kids? And this can be like
Speaker 1: pre each other as well, because I think sometimes when
Speaker 1: you get known as a couple again, like people can
Speaker 1: conflate your identities, but also forget that you were different
Speaker 1: people before you met and then that you have this
Speaker 1: beautiful love story as well. So yeah, let's go back
Speaker 1: to childhood first and go through what you were like
Speaker 1: as kids, what you loved, what you thought you'd be.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Sure.
Speaker 3: I was born in Mildura.
Speaker 2: Oh Miltura, Yeah yeah, country boy. My mum is still
Speaker 2: there with most of my family. I have one that
Speaker 2: lives here in Melbourne. Growing up as a kid, there
Speaker 2: was a lot of fun, you know, a lot of
Speaker 2: open space and the weather really good times. My dad
Speaker 2: was really sick. He had cancer when I was really little,
Speaker 2: so I think my childhood went from being an innocent
Speaker 2: little boy to stepping up and being a sense of
Speaker 2: strength of my mum who wasn't coping very well with
Speaker 2: dad's illness. Mum and Dad spent a lot of time
Speaker 2: in Melbourne, and my brother and I stayed with my grandparents,
Speaker 2: our grandparents there.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I think I.
Speaker 2: Just learned to step up and feel just the need
Speaker 2: to sort of make people feel okay, and that was
Speaker 2: sort of my job, which is really interesting now that
Speaker 2: I look back, as the way I parent read or
Speaker 2: the way that I am with people is just sort
Speaker 2: of reliable, and I really link that back to them
Speaker 2: that when I yeah, I was really young, so it's extraordinary.
Speaker 2: Part of our fostering program, we had to write our
Speaker 2: life story and that's something that was so cathartic. Not
Speaker 2: many people get the opportunity to sit down and you know,
Speaker 2: take the time to do that. It was a really
Speaker 2: incredible lesson for myself to look back as to you know,
Speaker 2: why I am the person that I am now. I mean,
Speaker 2: if everyone would do it, it's the most incredible exercise,
Speaker 2: but we just don't have a lot of time to
Speaker 2: do that sort of stuff. It was was amazing anyway,
Speaker 2: I digress there. Yeah, as a kid, I was just
Speaker 2: very sort of happy and outgoing. And yeah, I obviously
Speaker 2: didn't come out till much later, but I knew always
Speaker 2: I was different. I knew I just didn't fit the mold.
Speaker 2: But I could never understand why I'd never metiga person
Speaker 2: at all, and that obviously wasn't on my radar at all.
Speaker 2: But it wasn't un till my twenties and I sort
Speaker 2: of worked out how I, you know, fitted in and I
Speaker 2: suppose discovered my own identity and truth.
Speaker 1: Wow, isn't it so interesting? This is why I love
Speaker 1: this section so much, which you know, at the start,
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people are like, oh, we're
Speaker 1: going back so far into the past. But it's quite
Speaker 1: often that you'll see people connecting the dots as they're
Speaker 1: reflecting on their story, and sometimes for the first time
Speaker 1: they're going, ah, I didn't know that that was, you know,
Speaker 1: planting a seed for twenty years later, or I didn't
Speaker 1: realize that that the genesis of this big revelation when
Speaker 1: I was forty, you know, started back when I was six.
Speaker 1: And it's sort of beautiful to let people see that
Speaker 1: their life is really just a big jigsaw puzzle. And
Speaker 1: for other people who are often, I think, come to
Speaker 1: this show feeling confused about their direction, or lost about
Speaker 1: their identity, or on the cusp of a big change,
Speaker 1: just to hear that really no one has ever really
Speaker 1: had it figured out. Very few people wake up and go,
Speaker 1: I know my sexuality, I know my passions, I know
Speaker 1: my joys, I know my dislikes, and this is my life.
Speaker 1: Like it just doesn't happen that way, So.
Speaker 2: I don't know that way. That's so true.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love that that came up so early for you,
Speaker 1: that the first time you ever sat down to write
Speaker 1: your history was such a cathartic kind of moment for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, and what was for the whole family really
Speaker 3: because we also you know, sat with read and explained
Speaker 3: to him after we reflected on everything and we sort
Speaker 3: of told him our full life stories as well.
Speaker 2: He's at an.
Speaker 3: Age now which he's living those years that we lived,
Speaker 3: and it was really really powerful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, as I mentioned, it was a really really powerful exercise.
Speaker 3: And as far as myself, I grew up in Tazzy,
Speaker 3: you know, in a time before social media, in a
Speaker 3: time before computer games. Really all some families had computi games.
Speaker 2: We didn't have them.
Speaker 3: I've got an older brother who's five years older than
Speaker 3: I am, and I've got a sister who's eight years younger. Yeah,
Speaker 3: Mum remarried when I was little and they had my sister,
Speaker 3: so that's why the big age gap. My father lives
Speaker 3: in the Sunshine Coast. He remarried and had three children
Speaker 3: to the six of us in total. I lived out
Speaker 3: of just out of Hope Art. We lived on four acres,
Speaker 3: so our house was sort of in the middle of
Speaker 3: those four acres, and I played on my BMX bike.
Speaker 3: I built cubby houses. I was laughing at me for
Speaker 3: some strangeries.
Speaker 2: And there's a lot about my stories of you you know,
Speaker 2: like lighting fires and yeah, I used to steal a
Speaker 2: mum's cigarette lighter and go a light of bush and
Speaker 2: then things would get out a little bit out of
Speaker 2: hand and I'd have to, you know, like write it.
Speaker 3: In a little bit of hometell Mum, you know why
Speaker 3: am my clothes burnt? Or why I smell like smoke?
Speaker 3: I haven't been smoking down there. I've been like, you know,
Speaker 3: seting fire.
Speaker 1: You know, just extreme. That's fine, exactly. That sounds like
Speaker 1: such a typical tazzy upbringing. You guys know, Nick's from Devinpoort,
Speaker 1: same things, Like my childhood was how did I survive?
Speaker 2: Like wild exactly?
Speaker 3: Now I'm like, oh my godness, we're so precious, you know,
Speaker 3: I keep doing anything like really like even he's mad
Speaker 3: about rollerskating at the moment, and he's probably doesn't need
Speaker 3: as much protective whereas he does, but he leaves here
Speaker 3: like looking I know, like.
Speaker 2: He's if he could rollerskate in one of those sumo suits,
Speaker 2: we would then keep you wearing it, you know, give
Speaker 2: a minute.
Speaker 3: We petrified he's going to break a leg or yeah
Speaker 3: where yeah, yeah, see in the afternoon, if I go
Speaker 3: on my bike without a helmet, you know, oh my god.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think we knew what helmets were back then,
Speaker 1: although I mean I'm glad we've come a long way
Speaker 1: and child's safety and so like, were you, you know,
Speaker 1: quite outdoorsy? What did you think that would translate to?
Speaker 1: Because I always think it's really interesting to go back
Speaker 1: to what you thought you'd be as well, because at
Speaker 1: some point in all of our childhoods, we go from
Speaker 1: the intersection between what you're good at and what you
Speaker 1: love and that's your future and then suddenly you let
Speaker 1: like social expectation and financial stability and all these other
Speaker 1: weird concepts start to dictate your decisions. So when did
Speaker 1: you start to think about, like what you wanted to become?
Speaker 3: Yeah, look at my my, My part of that story
Speaker 3: is very boring. I still don't know what I want
Speaker 3: to be when I grow up. I have no idea
Speaker 3: what I want to be. I'm just living my life
Speaker 3: right now. And you know, of course, so much comes
Speaker 3: into it. Like you just said, you know, you're worry about,
Speaker 3: you know, stability, and you know where you're going to
Speaker 3: be and will you make it to retirement and what
Speaker 3: your retirement.
Speaker 2: It looks like.
Speaker 3: And it's only recently, you know, we've been together now
Speaker 3: over twenty years. It's only recently the last couple of
Speaker 3: years that we've gone hold on, we need to think
Speaker 3: about like our retirement. We've always been very sensible with
Speaker 3: money and always you know, tried really hard to you know,
Speaker 3: have stability in that area for sure, But it's like
Speaker 3: what's retirement looked like? You know, your income stream stops,
Speaker 3: but your lifestyle doesn't, you know, you know, even the
Speaker 3: mean it's changed in the last two years. But like
Speaker 3: I don't think we'll travel. That's why we decided to
Speaker 3: buy a house out of town, because we're like, that
Speaker 3: will be what our retirement now looks like. It was
Speaker 3: totally different to what our retirement looked like two years ago.
Speaker 2: So absolutely, I think that you're looking at retirements just
Speaker 2: just a word. I'm fifty next year, which means that
Speaker 2: stop it.
Speaker 1: I know, my God, tell me about your skincare immediately
Speaker 1: that's the Apple Market's like, it's it's the filter.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: And thinking that that word is now something that's only
Speaker 2: ten years away, so we really do have to think
Speaker 2: about that and plan for it, which where.
Speaker 3: We've done, we've got someone in charge of that. Now
Speaker 3: it's all very grown up.
Speaker 2: It is so grown up.
Speaker 1: I actually have this like dawning horrible realization that I'm
Speaker 1: never going to wake up one day and feel grown up,
Speaker 1: Like it's just going to be decayed after decade, still going.
Speaker 1: There are some more adultier adults like that. I asked
Speaker 1: what to do about stuff.
Speaker 3: I see them, like, you know, people come up on
Speaker 3: the news and their title come over and I'm like,
Speaker 3: oh my god, okay, young I look Michael, You're like, oh,
Speaker 3: that's because we're actually old.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Mine is when I see like a twenty nine year
Speaker 1: old with a baby and I'm like, oh, it's a
Speaker 1: teenage mum, so sweet and like innocent. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: there must be really tough for you. And then I'm like,
Speaker 1: that's the normal age when people actually voluntarily have children
Speaker 1: do that. And it's so cool that you guys have
Speaker 1: been together for twenty years because again I also think
Speaker 1: you know you're mentioning that your priorities have been shifting.
Speaker 1: It's so interesting in relationships like Nick and I are
Speaker 1: nearly twelve years, which is quite a long time given
Speaker 1: like that I'm only thirty two. But in relationships, I
Speaker 1: love that you have to go through like lots of
Speaker 1: chapters together, and you've been through lots of those together.
Speaker 1: But I'd love to go right back to the very
Speaker 1: beginning when you both first came out, because only if
Speaker 1: you're comfortable talking about it, of course, but I think
Speaker 1: both of you coming from like smaller towns or smaller
Speaker 1: areas where and particularly before social media, where you might
Speaker 1: often not have even had the language or the skills
Speaker 1: to even identify what you were feeling, let alone actually
Speaker 1: then do something about it. Come out to your families,
Speaker 1: to your friends, but then also you know, leading you
Speaker 1: to find each other. How did that all unravel for
Speaker 1: both of you?
Speaker 3: Well, I think our stories were probably very different in
Speaker 3: that respect. I didn't come out to my family until
Speaker 3: I was in a state of relationship with Michael. We've
Speaker 3: been together for a few months. They knew him as
Speaker 3: just a friend, or I thought they knew him was
Speaker 3: just a friend. But you know, they all knew your
Speaker 3: mum's no mom, no best you know mums like I
Speaker 3: always knew and didn't didn't bother her at all, which
Speaker 3: it shouldn't, you know. And we were actually like we're
Speaker 3: talking about obviously coming on to your podcast. I'm like,
Speaker 3: if that questions asked, wouldn't it be amazing? One day
Speaker 3: we understand why it is asked now, especially in our generation,
Speaker 3: but one day that's not a question like it's when
Speaker 3: did you come out?
Speaker 2: It's like, well, when did you not come out?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: I think there are actually people I've had someone on
Speaker 1: the podcast who was like, I never came out. I
Speaker 1: never came out. I never needed to make an announcement.
Speaker 1: I just was how I am.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yeah, that was that's amazing.
Speaker 3: That's it. That's what we hope, and we hope, you know,
Speaker 3: in Read's generation and his children that it's just that's
Speaker 3: just not a question anymore. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Me, My story is a bit different. As I mentioned before,
Speaker 2: growing up in a small country town with you and
Speaker 2: met a gay person. Never could I identify with homosexuality.
Speaker 2: And it wasn't until I became a flight attendant, which is,
Speaker 2: you know, the quintessential gay role.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm glad you said that, not me. Okay, good,
Speaker 1: we're allowed to acknowledge it.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: And I came to Melbourne for my training and I
Speaker 2: met gay people when I'm like, wow, this is amazing,
Speaker 2: Like I finally sort of have found my people. So
Speaker 2: it was interesting.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I didn't come out for another couple of years after that,
Speaker 2: whilst I sort of you know, navigated my journey, but
Speaker 2: coming out to mum and Dad was something that I
Speaker 2: did first. I just if you're being really honest with
Speaker 2: yourself that you know, they don't really know you unless
Speaker 2: they've got your whole story, you know. I told my
Speaker 2: brother first and asked him to come with me to
Speaker 2: a family meeting with Mum and Dad, we'd never had
Speaker 2: a family meeting in our lives, Like, what's this about?
Speaker 1: I was going to say, what do you mean for
Speaker 1: that's a regular thing?
Speaker 2: Mom thought I was there to tell her that my
Speaker 2: housemate was pregnant to you.
Speaker 3: So that was confusing and awkward.
Speaker 1: But look, the gender reveal balloon was no longer appropriate.
Speaker 2: But look, yeah, my brother was really supportive. Mum cried
Speaker 2: just for the reasons. I don't think she could understand
Speaker 2: what that future look like for her son. Dad was amazing.
Speaker 2: Dad was He said something like, it was quite funny.
Speaker 2: We can't do anything about that now. But what he
Speaker 2: meant by that was the next day he caught me
Speaker 2: up again and is like, what I meant by that, Well,
Speaker 2: that doesn't it doesn't matter, it never has that. We
Speaker 2: don't need to do anything about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not like it's too late for me to fix that.
Speaker 1: Not what he meant.
Speaker 2: What he meant, but he didn't have the ability to
Speaker 2: articulate how he was feeling. But it was also very
Speaker 2: strange because my brother, who had battled a long time
Speaker 2: of drug use and depression and went down that road
Speaker 2: really really young as a young teenager, was all the
Speaker 2: result of him being abused as a child unbeknownst to anyone.
Speaker 2: So on one hand, you know, my brother had, you know,
Speaker 2: these experiences with a pedophile, and it was really important
Speaker 2: that I share my feelings with with him first, you know,
Speaker 2: just I don't know, I was just so confusing to
Speaker 2: separate that that, you know, predator unwanted advances to someone
Speaker 2: who is attracted to men. So you know, I had
Speaker 2: how does this work in my head? How does he feel?
Speaker 2: What's mum and dad's take on all of this? So
Speaker 2: it was quite quite the journey. But my brother, God
Speaker 2: love him, and my late brother's passed away.
Speaker 3: He was the most.
Speaker 2: Amazing, amazing man and with you know, his open heart
Speaker 2: explained you know, his feelings and his love for me,
Speaker 2: and but you know I needed his love and blessing
Speaker 2: and we went through that together.
Speaker 3: And you know the rest of my.
Speaker 2: Family they've found out. And yeah, I've never been treated
Speaker 2: any any differently, nor should anyone, And yeah, I think
Speaker 2: it's something until the same sex marriage was pasted, didn't
Speaker 2: understand the impact of being able to be married or
Speaker 2: having that choice, So.
Speaker 3: It wasn't something really, I don't think even our relationship
Speaker 3: earlier that We always said we wanted to have a
Speaker 3: child like that was very spoken on very early, but
Speaker 3: marriage was never because I think it was we weren't allowed.
Speaker 3: It was not an option for us, so we're okay.
Speaker 3: It was just like it's the times that we live in.
Speaker 2: I don't I know think.
Speaker 3: I think it's like anything in our relationship and anything
Speaker 3: in our lives personally, we don't really want anything that's unachievable,
Speaker 3: like we need to know it's there to grab.
Speaker 2: It sort of thing, whereas we just don't know. It
Speaker 2: didn't allow ourselves.
Speaker 3: We never went we're not allowed to get.
Speaker 1: Married, or like it was just you just didn't even
Speaker 1: think about it.
Speaker 2: Oh, didn't register.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's why it's one of those
Speaker 1: things where you do hope that in future generations, and
Speaker 1: I think we are moving the conversation along at a
Speaker 1: rapid pace in this last sort of five to ten years.
Speaker 1: It is something you hope that in the future, gay
Speaker 1: couples or non binary people don't actually have to come
Speaker 1: out and they don't have to answer these questions. But
Speaker 1: I think now the reason why I do ask is
Speaker 1: because you're providing in these answers so much reassurance for
Speaker 1: people who might live in small country towns now or
Speaker 1: who might be up against religious or socio cultural reasons
Speaker 1: why their family perhaps aren't as progressed in the conversation.
Speaker 1: And I think also because some coming out stories are
Speaker 1: very positive for some people, it costs them a lot.
Speaker 1: But it's weighing up the cost of well, do you
Speaker 1: want to live your life as you are and maybe
Speaker 1: lose a few people along the way, or just face
Speaker 1: some challenge and some pain in that process, or do
Speaker 1: you want to keep hiding it at the expense of
Speaker 1: living your life and finding your partner and then being
Speaker 1: able to get married you know, when the law finally
Speaker 1: caught up along a long time later. But the way
Speaker 1: that you guys do talk about your you know, coming
Speaker 1: out times and also the things you've navigated as a
Speaker 1: couple as well, it helps other people so much not
Speaker 1: feel alone in that experience.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think the reason why I came out
Speaker 3: was I was starting to have to sort of lie,
Speaker 3: and that's just a massive thing. You know, like a
Speaker 3: parent or a friend even would say, oh, you know,
Speaker 3: who's Michael or where are you going? You know, why
Speaker 3: are you going to see Michael? Again or whatever.
Speaker 1: Why are you guys naked in the shower.
Speaker 3: If you're having to start lying lying to cover up
Speaker 3: what is something that is love? Then it was time
Speaker 3: I had to tell someone. So I did mine in
Speaker 3: the form of writing my mother a letter and I
Speaker 3: left it on the kitchen bench. That afternoon, she drove
Speaker 3: me to the airport because I was moving to Melbourne
Speaker 3: to live.
Speaker 2: With Michael.
Speaker 1: With your mate from Footy.
Speaker 3: Exactly so. And then and at the bottom of the letter,
Speaker 3: it's like a three page letter. I wish I had
Speaker 3: actually kept a copy of that letter, just so that
Speaker 3: I can reflect on it now, you know, all these
Speaker 3: years later as to would have written the same thing,
Speaker 3: And how did I justify it?
Speaker 2: Because I don't actually remember, because it would have been.
Speaker 3: You know, I would have been quite numb writing, you know,
Speaker 3: most of it, because I'm like, oh my god, my mother.
Speaker 2: You know, I wasn't explicit in it. Let me just
Speaker 2: I am telling her what.
Speaker 1: I was just, you know, Mum, sometimes there are two bees.
Speaker 3: I think I made a reference in me that I'm
Speaker 3: not going to be wearing PVC, just to clarify that.
Speaker 3: And I wish I wish I had a copy of
Speaker 3: that letter.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that'd be amazing.
Speaker 3: And the very last sentence was like, and please don't
Speaker 3: ring me in discuss this light.
Speaker 1: In the past.
Speaker 2: Let's all move on.
Speaker 3: And however you want to move on, you know, we
Speaker 3: never speak of it again. And then of course I
Speaker 3: get to Melbourne and get off the plane, turn my
Speaker 3: phone on. It was ringing, like I was ringing as
Speaker 3: I was holding it on button, and Mum's name was there.
Speaker 3: I was like, Michael was there. What I hadn't told
Speaker 3: Michael that I'd written them the letter? You know, we
Speaker 3: spoke about it. We'd only been dating three months when
Speaker 3: I moved state for him and he got a train.
Speaker 2: And Mum was like, I got your letter.
Speaker 3: And I was just like sweating, and I'm like yeah,
Speaker 3: and she's like it's fine, you know, like I.
Speaker 2: Knew, so.
Speaker 1: No surprise base exactly.
Speaker 3: Exactly as Michael said, parents, I think, you know, they's
Speaker 3: you know, amazing supportive parents, Like we were very fortunate
Speaker 3: to both have struggle what to say, you know, because
Speaker 3: they also don't know what's right or wrong to say
Speaker 3: to you, you know, like your dad, his intentions were amazing.
Speaker 3: But some people would read that and go, oh, you
Speaker 3: know here hear that and go, what do you mean
Speaker 3: you you just you know, you're hay with it, like
Speaker 3: it's yeah, it's not an it, it's just yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1: I think also what's really interesting is because when you
Speaker 1: both did come out, it was a very different generation generally,
Speaker 1: and it's you know, the kind of homosexual couples have
Speaker 1: come a long way in society as being normalized and
Speaker 1: spoken about a lot more. There's marriage. You know, a
Speaker 1: lot of us have a married couple in our friendship groups.
Speaker 1: I think now that that's where the non binary conversation
Speaker 1: is sitting, and it's important for people to remember that,
Speaker 1: like in the beginning of anything that starts to become
Speaker 1: more socially discussed, there is a lot of and not
Speaker 1: even malicious, but there's a lot of questions from people
Speaker 1: around how do they act And it's an out of
Speaker 1: care for you as well, like not offending you or
Speaker 1: not asking the wrong questions or I think one of
Speaker 1: the things that comes up quite a lot is when
Speaker 1: you first come out, people are like, oh, but we
Speaker 1: were mates. Are you attracted to me now? As if
Speaker 1: like every human is also I'm like, girls and guys
Speaker 1: can be friends and not like sleeping together. So why
Speaker 1: is it suddenly like you guys are hitting on you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. But I think if there's no
Speaker 1: malicious intention. You know, even Danny was saying the other day,
Speaker 1: like people, you know, they even mess up their own pronouns. Now,
Speaker 1: you know, let's say He's like, as long as everyone's
Speaker 1: trying to learn, And I think you guys have probably
Speaker 1: seen people maybe be a bit awkward at the beginning
Speaker 1: and not know what to do, but slowly, slowly you've
Speaker 1: helped normalize it as well for a lot of people
Speaker 1: in your community.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's y.
Speaker 3: I try and educacate myself, like looking at pages like Danny's,
Speaker 3: and I don't want to get it wrong, you know,
Speaker 3: I don't want to get you know, you're in fear,
Speaker 3: and now I understand what people would be would have
Speaker 3: been like for us, you know, like talking about our
Speaker 3: relationship earlier on that they.
Speaker 2: Were in fear of offending us.
Speaker 3: Like I'm not offended by any word you know that
Speaker 3: anyone accidentally uses if it's coming from you know, a
Speaker 3: good place for their intentions to offend or hurt someone.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's back then too, they didn't have social media.
Speaker 3: People like to be able to go, oh, I'll reference
Speaker 3: back to them. They've got a good explanation of what
Speaker 3: a pronoun is or yeah, I was totally you.
Speaker 2: Know, an old man.
Speaker 3: You know, I do not understand this, and now I
Speaker 3: totally get it.
Speaker 2: You know I get it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, andper important.
Speaker 1: So well, going back to gay time, which anyone who
Speaker 1: is listening who doesn't know, I think I've spoken about
Speaker 1: this with a couple of people before, but all of
Speaker 1: my gay friends have this, like let's move in, get
Speaker 1: married and have babies in like an eleven and a
Speaker 1: half month period very quickly. I don't know what it is.
Speaker 1: Is it efficiency? I don't know what it is. I
Speaker 1: absolutely love it, though, like it's it's it's not even
Speaker 1: a stereotype. It's just like a universal experience. So you
Speaker 1: guys obviously moved in together really quickly. Tell us your
Speaker 1: love story. How did you meet? I heard it was
Speaker 1: in Tazzi when you were both working at quantas well.
Speaker 3: I wasn't actually working in quantas it was something I'd
Speaker 3: always wanted to do. Michael had already been there. He
Speaker 3: started work in Mildura with Quantas got transferred to Lonceston
Speaker 3: in Tazzy. He was down in Hobart. I just moved
Speaker 3: back from Sydney. I've been living in and I'd moved
Speaker 3: back to Hobart and I knew he was a flight attendant.
Speaker 3: I met him out and I knew he was a
Speaker 3: flight attendant. I was like, that's something I've always wanted
Speaker 3: to do. It's a bit gay, but.
Speaker 2: I really wanted to be on Like it's.
Speaker 1: A self fulfilling prophecy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, asked him a lot of questions about that. That's
Speaker 3: where a conversation I think sort of struck up. And
Speaker 3: then he's like, oh, give me a number. I'll send you,
Speaker 3: you know, some information of people I know in recruitment
Speaker 3: and the process. You know, it's a pretty full on
Speaker 3: process to be a flight attendant. You know, you go
Speaker 3: through several interview stages and what they're looking for, and
Speaker 3: you know, maybe get a bit of hospitality experience. Because
Speaker 3: at that time I hadn't. I'd worked in supermarket and
Speaker 3: you know, I was a lot younger, so what else.
Speaker 2: Financial services and so forth? But I hadn't.
Speaker 1: Were you on the plane at this conversation?
Speaker 2: No? No, No, this was in this is Danvin Hobert.
Speaker 1: No, that would have been so cute, and you're like, hey,
Speaker 1: he just like slipped in number on a serviette under A.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So then yeah, so we just struck up a friendship,
Speaker 3: I think very early on, and you know, at every
Speaker 3: sort of opportunity Michael to come down to Hobart it's
Speaker 3: like two and a half hours or two hour drive,
Speaker 3: or I'd go up.
Speaker 2: To Lone System on days off.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it sort of progressed from there, but it
Speaker 3: progressed very fast in intense if Michael, look, I would
Speaker 3: never never move a state for somebody in such a
Speaker 3: short period of time, but A it felt right, and
Speaker 3: B Michael had no choice. He'd got a transfer to
Speaker 3: what he'd always wanted, which was mainline Quantas. So that was,
Speaker 3: you know, moving to Melbourne. That's what that looked like
Speaker 3: for him. And we sort of knew that when I
Speaker 3: met him, because one day I'll hopefully live in Melbourne
Speaker 3: and were working for in the larger aircraft. I just thought, well,
Speaker 3: fuck it, why not, like I've got nothing to lose,
Speaker 3: just pack my things that way and come back home
Speaker 3: you know, the other way.
Speaker 2: And come back home against But I think what you
Speaker 2: said a moment ago, it just felt right. You know,
Speaker 2: people talk about that that love at first sight, and
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if it was love at first sight,
Speaker 2: but it just felt right, you know, like it was
Speaker 2: comfortable and connections that was you know, yeah, just very
Speaker 2: very safe.
Speaker 3: You know, we both sort of wanted the same thing,
Speaker 3: you know, like in the conversations that we had. We
Speaker 3: were from different but similar backgrounds like our families, but
Speaker 3: you know, very similar.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just you know, honest people, working class, work hard,
Speaker 2: you know, treat people well. Just just both had that
Speaker 2: that those common values and goals and our interests at
Speaker 2: the time or still is you know, like in cars.
Speaker 3: We both like vehicles, and.
Speaker 1: We both like transports and audio. I also heard that
Speaker 1: you even spoke about having kids on your first day,
Speaker 1: like really early.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it wasn't more of a like you know, like
Speaker 3: with each other right now. It was just more about
Speaker 3: you know, where do you see yourself, you know, as
Speaker 3: a as a gay man? Back then when I don't
Speaker 3: think we would have even said to each other as
Speaker 3: a gay man.
Speaker 2: Because we wouldn't.
Speaker 3: I don't know, you didn't even talk about it, you know,
Speaker 3: like it's such a different.
Speaker 2: Time that it was more in the context of I've
Speaker 2: always wanted one to be a dad, yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: and meeting Jared was like, wow, oh you wanted that
Speaker 2: as well, Like, you know, that's something I didn't know
Speaker 2: I could feel anymore because obviously I'm gay.
Speaker 3: But that's okay to feel that you want to be
Speaker 3: a parent, you know, you want that yearning that you know,
Speaker 3: people say that, you know, women have a lot of
Speaker 3: sort of feelings that they not feel not complete until
Speaker 3: they have a tilble. Some men maybe maybe it's that
Speaker 3: we feel that way sometimes too. But it wasn't that
Speaker 3: we were going, oh, we're going to have a baby,
Speaker 3: or let's try and do this.
Speaker 2: It was more like, oh, you have that feeling too.
Speaker 2: I have that feeling. Yeah, you know. It wasn't one
Speaker 2: day you know, maybe this this, this will be possible
Speaker 2: for us, you know in some way, shape or form.
Speaker 2: Probably back then it was more maybe not that's true,
Speaker 2: but we had a lot to explore and learn and
Speaker 2: we're on the same page with it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, before we continue, you all know, I like to
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Speaker 1: be knocked over forever. I'll pop the link in show
Speaker 1: notes now, well, I'm so so excited to jump into
Speaker 1: the process of nine years later finally welcoming your beautiful
Speaker 1: sun read into the world, because again I think it's
Speaker 1: something a lot of couples don't see as possible or workable.
Speaker 1: And also, you guys have really shown that you can
Speaker 1: have a beautiful family life and a beautiful community around you,
Speaker 1: and that read doesn't suffer for any kind of discrimination
Speaker 1: or you know, missing out. I think that's really really
Speaker 1: beautiful and powerful. But first, I have one gay question
Speaker 1: for you guys. I have another one later, but one
Speaker 1: is have you ever been off on your gata and
Speaker 1: accidentally hit on a straight man? Because I'm like, is
Speaker 1: there a code? Like how do you guys know? Do
Speaker 1: you ever get it wrong? Or is your gaita just on?
Speaker 3: No, Look, I don't think i've ever no, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: I've never got it wrong.
Speaker 2: Of course you get you know, girlfriend ringing. You're going like,
Speaker 2: did you see him at the time?
Speaker 3: Do you think he's going Like, I don't have that
Speaker 3: type of I'm like, I have no idea. Like I
Speaker 3: didn't even know I was when I was young. You know,
Speaker 3: I had so I didn't know I was. You know,
Speaker 3: Oh my god, you had girlfriends? Did you boy friends?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I had girlfriends before Michael didn't have girlfriends. I had girlfriends.
Speaker 3: I was actually engaged to be married. Oh my god,
Speaker 3: and you.
Speaker 1: Know kids already you have children? No wait, was it Nick,
Speaker 1: because that's also possible.
Speaker 2: No good?
Speaker 3: You know young, I moved out at home when I
Speaker 3: was seventeen, you know, like, which now is mind blowing
Speaker 3: for you know, the thought of Read moving out of
Speaker 3: home at seventeen, like I probably still won't let him
Speaker 3: cross a busy road and it's a.
Speaker 1: Dream, you know, without a suit engage.
Speaker 2: Which's hats and stopped to slow down.
Speaker 1: Signs, which is a you know, bubbles socker like bubble socker,
Speaker 1: I speak tubble meet you just like push Read to
Speaker 1: school in one.
Speaker 3: Of those those it's when he starts taking himself to
Speaker 3: school to wear it.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Okay, So from two thousand and one, fell in love,
Speaker 1: moved in together very quickly after, but it took nine
Speaker 1: years until twenty ten when your live changed forever. And
Speaker 1: I think, not unlike adoption, if you don't have someone
Speaker 1: in your network or even extended network, who's been involved
Speaker 1: in surrogacy, I don't think many people know the logistics
Speaker 1: or know much about it. So as much as you're comfortable,
Speaker 1: would you guys be happy to share a little bit
Speaker 1: about how you found I mean, I think you guys
Speaker 1: found out about it yourselves only through watching a TV show.
Speaker 1: So how did you actually start the process. How long
Speaker 1: did it take for anyone else who's interested in it?
Speaker 1: You know, what are sort of the steps in that
Speaker 1: landscape that led you to read?
Speaker 3: Yeah, look, you're correct in saying that it was a
Speaker 3: documentary on television that we saw of a same set
Speaker 3: couple and their journey that they had filmed in a
Speaker 3: documentary style of going to America, you know, meeting surrogate's
Speaker 3: agencies and right through to them actually holding their baby.
Speaker 3: And that was before you know, Instagram and all those things.
Speaker 3: So it was on the television Facebook I think it
Speaker 3: just started, or there was MySpace or one of those things.
Speaker 1: THOMSN Messenger.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, that's exactly right.
Speaker 3: So we investigated these guys that did it and tried
Speaker 3: to get in touch with them, and we did so
Speaker 3: we were living in Perth at the time. We reached
Speaker 3: out to them and they said, yeah, come over, come
Speaker 3: over to our house. They lived in Sukilita. We went
Speaker 3: to the house and we saw firsthand, like a family
Speaker 3: you know that was you know, I don't ever, like
Speaker 3: use the word normal, but just like an average family,
Speaker 3: you know, two loving parents and a child and living,
Speaker 3: you know, living their life. So they sort of, you know,
Speaker 3: gave us the encouragement, I think, like seeing it that
Speaker 3: it's achievable. So we just investigated what countries did it.
Speaker 3: It was very, very expensive in America at the time
Speaker 3: to do it, so we just started saving. We bought
Speaker 3: investment properties.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we had purchased an investment for a few years earlier,
Speaker 2: so we had that sort of capital behind us to think, okay,
Speaker 2: if we if we you know, really serious about this,
Speaker 2: we'll sell that and raise the funds that are needed.
Speaker 2: You know, unfortunately, with surrogacy, not unfortunately, it is a
Speaker 2: commercial transaction at the end of the day that there
Speaker 2: is money changing hands, so you've got to feel comfortable
Speaker 2: with that. We did explore adoption, and you know, it
Speaker 2: was just roadblock after roadblock. That's an incredibly arduous process. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but you know that really helped us also understand that
Speaker 2: it's not about skin color, race, religion, you know, it's
Speaker 2: just having a healthy child. So once we discovered that
Speaker 2: India was a country that was an option for it
Speaker 2: was an option. Yeah, so as far as being to
Speaker 2: afford the process. You know, it was not two hundred
Speaker 2: thousand dollars as it wasn't in America. It was sort
Speaker 2: of half that class. So it was something that we
Speaker 2: were like, okay, this is this is something we can investigate.
Speaker 2: But we then spent the next a few years investigating
Speaker 2: agencies in India. We just wanted to ensure that the
Speaker 2: agencies that we, you know, would finally sign up.
Speaker 3: With were legitimate and they look after.
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, yeah that's right, not not taking advantage
Speaker 2: of people or you know, their their situation. So it's
Speaker 2: something that you know, we spoke to dozens of agencies
Speaker 2: and you just get that vibe as this is just
Speaker 2: all about money and that that's not it for us.
Speaker 2: That's got to be more than that. So sorry. India
Speaker 2: is the company that we built a rapport with for
Speaker 2: about six months. I spoke to them just about every
Speaker 2: day with a question what about this, and what about
Speaker 2: this and what happened? This happens and what do you
Speaker 2: do about this? And they were amazing and they're still
Speaker 2: great friends and friends. We spoke to them like this week,
Speaker 2: you know, incredible. The doctors there, it's run by two
Speaker 2: doctors and just you know, we're loads of integrity and
Speaker 2: wanting the best for the you know, intended parents and
Speaker 2: their surrogate and everyone involved is you know, just treated
Speaker 2: really beautifully. So yeah, but meeting these guys in Melbourne
Speaker 2: was just very tangible, thinking wow, this, this, this can happen, this,
Speaker 2: this is achievable.
Speaker 3: And then you go through all those doubts going like, oh,
Speaker 3: but when they go to school, are they going to
Speaker 3: get bullied for having me and Michael as their dad?
Speaker 3: And those were our bigger burning questions, like, you know,
Speaker 3: we really want to bring a child into this earth,
Speaker 3: but we also don't want to give it a bad life,
Speaker 3: you know, like or challenges that are out of our control.
Speaker 3: So we did have a lot of fears around that,
Speaker 3: and ten years later, the least of our worries. So
Speaker 3: they always say, you know, things that you worry about
Speaker 3: are the things that you really don't worry about once
Speaker 3: you know things happen.
Speaker 2: So yeah, no, we haven't had one sort of amount
Speaker 2: of discrimination or you know, dropping read off at kindergarten
Speaker 2: and all his little kinder friends think it was the
Speaker 2: coolest thing in the world. He had two dads because
Speaker 2: Dad's more fun than mum was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh my god, that's so sweet, sweet, so lovely.
Speaker 2: It's incredible to think that, you know, reads little kinder
Speaker 2: buddies and school buddies, having gone to school with a
Speaker 2: family with you know, same sex parents.
Speaker 3: It's no biggie. You're still like and even now and
Speaker 3: you still get questions like, especially now, we've got a
Speaker 3: little baby in a praym and we're going to a
Speaker 3: supermarket and I'll give him mom a break, or I'm
Speaker 3: having arrest, you know, or.
Speaker 2: Oh, you're a good dad, you know.
Speaker 3: And you sort of choose your audience as to whether
Speaker 3: you choose you want to educate them or And that's
Speaker 3: just personally. I know a lot of people that have
Speaker 3: spoken to especially online, they're like, you know, this happened
Speaker 3: to me today. So I went off at them, and
Speaker 3: I'm like, that's your lot. It's just not my lot.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: It's an older gentleman, you know, and he's in the
Speaker 3: kindness of his heart, he's saying, giving mama break. I
Speaker 3: can just smile and walk away, you know, like I
Speaker 3: just you know, smile and acknowledge that he's spoken and
Speaker 3: walk away, you know. Whereas it's someone that's I feel
Speaker 3: needs to know.
Speaker 2: You know, I will go, oh.
Speaker 3: He's actually got two dads? Or where he with this
Speaker 3: particular child that we've got the moment where.
Speaker 1: Where the real dad's have not. You guys are the
Speaker 1: least likely to ever use that sentience ever. But I
Speaker 1: think that's a good point as well. I think in
Speaker 1: anything where difference or uniqueness draws questions or curiosity is
Speaker 1: to just really distinguish between the ones that come from
Speaker 1: a good place and out of genuine interest and like
Speaker 1: wanting to understand better, or people who are doing it
Speaker 1: out of a place of maliciousness. And you can't fight
Speaker 1: every battle, like you'll just be so bloody exhausted. So
Speaker 1: I love that idea of like some people, it's not
Speaker 1: coming from a bad place. I've got limited hours of
Speaker 1: the day. I just got to leave that one. You
Speaker 1: don't have to educate every single person that comes on
Speaker 1: your doorstep, like.
Speaker 3: I think that's who we are too, especially having a
Speaker 3: social media account.
Speaker 2: I'm not here to educate anyone.
Speaker 3: Like.
Speaker 2: We pick our battles.
Speaker 3: You know, we're showing what our life is and you
Speaker 3: translate that to how you want to.
Speaker 2: That's fine, That's totally up to you.
Speaker 1: Did you get to be there when Reid was born?
Speaker 1: I think it goes to his going.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, we were actually outside the operating theater he
Speaker 2: was born, and he was in our arms when he
Speaker 2: was two minutes old.
Speaker 3: Still even that, like even when you said we were
Speaker 3: standing outside, I still can hear, like we were standing
Speaker 3: outside this door and the birthing suite and they're all cesareans,
Speaker 3: So it's scheduled, you know what time it's going to be.
Speaker 2: It's going to be on this day, and read was
Speaker 2: early because they were a bit unsure about sort of
Speaker 2: health concerns. Whilst he was still inside.
Speaker 3: Were standing outside that door and had like as a
Speaker 3: school swinging door, and because we were allowed actually in there,
Speaker 3: we could see like curtains around, like you could see
Speaker 3: through the little glass the curtains around. We're like, that's
Speaker 3: where our surrogut is in there. But the squeak of
Speaker 3: the door, like when you said that, instantly, I just
Speaker 3: remember that sound like I'm sweating. And they're looking at
Speaker 3: each other with this like anxious eyes because you're just
Speaker 3: also like any parent on that at that date, you're
Speaker 3: overwhelmed with emotion that you know this is actually happening.
Speaker 3: But you're like, I hope he's safe. I hope he's
Speaker 3: healthier or he We didn't know if it was a
Speaker 3: he orshit at the time.
Speaker 1: Oh, you didn't know.
Speaker 2: You're not to know in India. Yeah, I mean more
Speaker 2: of a cultural reason for India that you're not you
Speaker 2: don't know the sex of the child, which is good
Speaker 2: for a couple of control.
Speaker 3: For it's really good to have something that's out of.
Speaker 2: Out control the general reveal businesses in India though.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh my god. I mean your mum had
Speaker 1: the balloon years ago ready to go, so oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: so you had him straight away, and then how.
Speaker 3: They had the baby to you know, you have a
Speaker 3: few moments and then they take the baby way to
Speaker 3: do some testing obviously to make sure there's no health concerns.
Speaker 3: You're given just basically a large hospital room with we
Speaker 3: had it with two beds, will bring the baby up shortly,
Speaker 3: and that's where we stayed for three days with our
Speaker 3: new baby.
Speaker 2: So they it was the most surreal experience. You know,
Speaker 2: there's I will live him in your little little crib
Speaker 2: and they're like, you know, what what do you want
Speaker 2: to how can we help you out. We're like, no,
Speaker 2: we're good, We're fine, and.
Speaker 3: The like change and that like we're good. You know.
Speaker 2: So those those first three days where we were just
Speaker 2: with him and each other twenty four to seven, like
Speaker 2: it was so special just without also you know, being
Speaker 2: away obviously, you know, being away from your loved ones
Speaker 2: and family and friends and being able to introduce him,
Speaker 2: but it also was such an amazing time just to
Speaker 2: connect and without any interruption, no pressure about seeing.
Speaker 3: Anybody or you know, it was Yeah, we stayed in
Speaker 3: our vajamas in a you know, in a room with him,
Speaker 3: and I took so many photos and.
Speaker 2: Oh, look at him, look at him.
Speaker 3: Oh he's doing this, he's doing that, he's doing nothing.
Speaker 1: Yeah he was blinking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly what miracle.
Speaker 1: Oh he's so gifted. Should we put him in an
Speaker 1: accelerated baby? But read is actually gifted though, Like what
Speaker 1: a talented little human. He started his own business. Like
Speaker 1: if there was ever a concern, and I can totally
Speaker 1: understand why it would have been a fear that he
Speaker 1: would end up being subject to discrimination or challenge or
Speaker 1: just difference in school, but I feel like he's one
Speaker 1: of the most well adjusted children I have ever met, like,
Speaker 1: started his own kindness business in Lockdown, does his own
Speaker 1: art project like a little legend blows me away, a
Speaker 1: lot of crafts.
Speaker 2: He's very creative, that's for sure. I think you mentioned
Speaker 2: before just about not being discriminated against and being very reassured.
Speaker 2: He's just very safe in he's I was not safe,
Speaker 2: very comfortable in his own compkin.
Speaker 3: When Read was born. There's never any secrets.
Speaker 2: There have never been a secret about how he was born.
Speaker 2: He has a photo of Arch and it by his bed.
Speaker 2: It's the journey has always been very transparent. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: he's an egg Downer. And I think I had that
Speaker 2: conversation with you as well, Sarah, like.
Speaker 3: Your you know, your your background, where you you know
Speaker 3: how you became. If it's no secret, it's not like
Speaker 3: something that needs to be a discussion now because some
Speaker 3: people like when did you tell him? And I'm like, well,
Speaker 3: you always always knew, and now we're talked to him
Speaker 3: about that, you know, going, do you remember when I
Speaker 3: told you he's.
Speaker 2: No Well, which is true because I did. We didn't
Speaker 2: tell him.
Speaker 3: It's just always had been quite open about.
Speaker 2: Everything, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was my next question for you guys, was like,
Speaker 1: the question I get all the time is when did
Speaker 1: you find out? But I think firstly, everyone in cross
Speaker 1: cultural situations like this, it's kind of obvious that, like,
Speaker 1: your child is Indian and you guys are Caucasian. I'm
Speaker 1: like fully blown Asian. My parents were Caucasian. It's not
Speaker 1: a situation where you can hide it till you're eighteen.
Speaker 1: But I think that is something that's transferable to all parents,
Speaker 1: is that children are really with information, and the more
Speaker 1: that you make it not a big deal, the less
Speaker 1: a big deal it becomes. It's never been a complex
Speaker 1: for me. It's never been weird because I knew about
Speaker 1: adoption before I knew about what it meant. It wasn't
Speaker 1: like find out about it, then get told and then
Speaker 1: go my identity. It's just part of your story. And
Speaker 1: I love that you guys have been so open with
Speaker 1: Read because he just seems to not be hung up
Speaker 1: on it because of that, because it was never a secret.
Speaker 2: I think it's just yeah, it was always going to
Speaker 2: like we're always like that, yeah, And we're really proud
Speaker 2: of how you know, the journey of sorry, So we're
Speaker 2: really proud of India as a country.
Speaker 3: For allowing us to be parents.
Speaker 2: To be parents. Yeah, like we owe them, you know,
Speaker 2: a lot. It's it's a real privilege. So you know,
Speaker 2: we'd love his skin color. We love his big deep
Speaker 2: brown eyes, you know, like.
Speaker 1: His eyes are beautiful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, super proud of him. And yeah, he's a really
Speaker 2: good kid.
Speaker 1: He's such a good kind of obsessed with him. He's
Speaker 1: just got such a bright future ahead. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: those tap dancers. Something that I also think is really
Speaker 1: interesting about you guys is that often people think in
Speaker 1: the journey of parenthood, you know, mums changed their careers
Speaker 1: and mums become stay at home mums or mums you know,
Speaker 1: sacrifice blah blah blah. But you guys both also had
Speaker 1: really big identity changes around that, like Jared becoming a
Speaker 1: stay at home dad, Michael shifting into a totally different
Speaker 1: sector to be at home more. Like those big kind
Speaker 1: of career or lifestyle pivots are also a really big
Speaker 1: theme of over the past eighteen months to two years.
Speaker 1: Do you guys have any words for people listening on
Speaker 1: rebuilding your identity when like your titles change or your
Speaker 1: place kind of in the world changes.
Speaker 2: You haven't rebuilt my identity understoodn't know what I'm going
Speaker 2: to be to grow up.
Speaker 3: But nice to add to this because I think you
Speaker 3: went through Yeah.
Speaker 2: Look, I was at that quantas for eighteen years and
Speaker 2: you wanted to be home more. I was away fifty
Speaker 2: percent of every month, and you know, you only watched
Speaker 2: your child grow up once. And I felt that I
Speaker 2: was not there enough and I needed to be. You know,
Speaker 2: making that decision to leave was tricky. It came at
Speaker 2: a time where quantuss offering redundancies, so it was a
Speaker 2: bit of an incentive to take the money and go
Speaker 2: and try something new, and we.
Speaker 3: Both took it at the same time. The redundancies came
Speaker 3: up and we're like, I'd been there ten years, mark
Speaker 3: or at eighteen, and we were like, oh, and I
Speaker 3: was because I was off stay home Dad, Like, because
Speaker 3: I got leave.
Speaker 1: You guys got twelve weeks of potentially leave.
Speaker 3: I've got no, I got two years. The policy change
Speaker 3: whilst we were at quantisance, you know, us as the
Speaker 3: same sex couple that were in the same job, they
Speaker 3: had to look at their policies and procedures and they
Speaker 3: had to make changes to go well, oh on to end,
Speaker 3: you know, there's a potnity and maternity.
Speaker 2: Leave, like we need to make this more there.
Speaker 3: So they were very a very fair employer and honored
Speaker 3: me two years off, securing my job that I could
Speaker 3: go back to. But in the shortly after that time,
Speaker 3: I did go back for a little bit in part time.
Speaker 3: But again it was really hard juggling. You know, we
Speaker 3: had a new baby and we were raising that child.
Speaker 3: We weren't, you know, wanting a nanny or we weren't
Speaker 3: wanting childcare anything, because this is it's just what we
Speaker 3: wanted to do. We had to make that call and go, Okay,
Speaker 3: what's going to happen.
Speaker 2: And we don't have family in Melbourne as mentioned, you know,
Speaker 2: Jared's in Tazzi and Sunstraine coast of mine in Mildura,
Speaker 2: so it is us and but you know, it's our
Speaker 2: job to raise this little human. So I took the
Speaker 2: opportunity to leave and I got into the finance sector,
Speaker 2: into mortgages, and it was just horrendous.
Speaker 3: The year and a half that I worked in that.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I felt sick every morning.
Speaker 3: I was worrying, like Michael's way too worried about people's
Speaker 3: financial situations because we're always so conservative. He would never
Speaker 3: give me specific details, but he would come home going
Speaker 3: like some people are just you know, like you know,
Speaker 3: they're going to afford that more. You know, they're get
Speaker 3: themselves into that big house that they want. But I
Speaker 3: think I could lose their job tomorrow and like where
Speaker 3: does that you know, they wouldn't get that money back
Speaker 3: on that house or whatever it might be.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I was your job to wait. I think
Speaker 2: I was just so naive to think that, you know,
Speaker 2: home loans. I thought it was like, you know, selling
Speaker 2: the dream of you know, home ownership, and not at all,
Speaker 2: It's just sales and commission.
Speaker 1: So, oh my god, this is little Michael coming out
Speaker 1: the like nurturer Michael, I.
Speaker 2: Know, and I just this was not a natural, not
Speaker 2: natural fit. But I had taken a new job. I
Speaker 2: had quit a left quarter, so I couldn't go back,
Speaker 2: and that was that was not an option. And I
Speaker 2: just felt the pressure of you know, providing for my family.
Speaker 2: Now that you know, it was my decision to leave.
Speaker 2: Now I've got to suck it up and just you know.
Speaker 3: Go to work.
Speaker 2: But with Jared's support, and I suppose I'm wavering, you know,
Speaker 2: commitment of supporting me and my decision to leave that
Speaker 2: industry because it was just not.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's right for some people. It's not that
Speaker 3: it was a bad job, but just for Michael, I'm like,
Speaker 3: you can't tay awake at night, you can't feel sick
Speaker 3: going to work over someone else's mortgage. This is ridiculous.
Speaker 1: It's not, it's just it's that quote that I always say,
Speaker 1: if it costs your piece, it's too expensive. So it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter what else. Absolutely, yeah, like it could tick
Speaker 1: so many other boxes, but if it's making you desperately unhappy,
Speaker 1: life is too sure.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, But yeah, anyway, So, yeah, I suppose from leaving
Speaker 2: leaving Quantas to you know, getting a nine to five job,
Speaker 2: which was something that, yeah, I did really struggle with.
Speaker 2: It's taken me a little while to find the path
Speaker 2: of something that I look forward to, you know, going
Speaker 2: to work.
Speaker 3: I enjoy it.
Speaker 2: But I did spend too much time regretting the decision
Speaker 2: to lead Quantus. I think you used to go through
Speaker 2: that low patch of like, holy crap, what have I.
Speaker 3: Do and remembering all those amazing times you had, Like Quanus,
Speaker 3: we're in a different chapter of our lives when we
Speaker 3: worked for Quantas, you know, like just kids, you know,
Speaker 3: like you go, we'd be in Singapore. I bought most
Speaker 3: everything we own nearly came from Singapore. You know, I'd
Speaker 3: bring it back. I'd spend most of the time in
Speaker 3: the shopping or partying or you know, we did that
Speaker 3: for years.
Speaker 2: So part of the benefits there you get a free
Speaker 2: flight every month, so you just go to.
Speaker 3: Anywhere you want, just for lunch, Sydney really just for lunch.
Speaker 3: You know, very different, different lists, So it's hard when
Speaker 3: you change. I think when you change roles or you're pivoting,
Speaker 3: is to also remember the whole old picture, not just
Speaker 3: those moments and going, oh I wish I still had.
Speaker 1: That I missed that good time.
Speaker 3: It's not going to be that now. It's a different
Speaker 3: time of our lives now and more rewarding things that
Speaker 3: you've got to focus on right now.
Speaker 2: But our pivoting, I think, like go, like that's you know,
Speaker 2: believe in yourself and for sure, you know, take that step.
Speaker 2: Acknowledge that it will be a bit rocky. You know
Speaker 2: you might not fall on your feet first. Go you
Speaker 2: give yourself a bit of a break. Don't be too
Speaker 2: hard on yourself, and it's okay to look back and think,
Speaker 2: oh God, I shouldn't have left, but don't stay in
Speaker 2: that space for too long. You know, just own what
Speaker 2: you're doing and look forward.
Speaker 1: That's such great advice. And I also think that you know,
Speaker 1: the days of like finding a forever job over like,
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, you were in a different chapter when
Speaker 1: you were at Quantus and that worked for you, guys,
Speaker 1: But now you have, you know, two kids in the house,
Speaker 1: and your priorities change. And one of the things I'd
Speaker 1: try and really normalize here is like the mini pivot
Speaker 1: every few years, like your career and lifestyle and house
Speaker 1: and day structure. As you're a different person every year,
Speaker 1: it's okay if everything around you tweaks accordingly, Like no
Speaker 1: one's meant to have one job for their whole life
Speaker 1: or one life structure for their whole life. If you're
Speaker 1: trying on different things for side every two years, that's
Speaker 1: pretty normal in this day and age. What brings you
Speaker 1: joy or makes you your best self is not meant
Speaker 1: to look the same from you to hear. So that's
Speaker 1: such good advice to just be okay, Like, don't be
Speaker 1: hard on yourself if you don't make it to long
Speaker 1: service leave like who does now?
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly right.
Speaker 1: So then, in the reverse pattern to gay time, you
Speaker 1: work together for seventeen years before you guys got engaged
Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen. Another gay question, how do you know
Speaker 1: who is going to be the proposer? Like are you
Speaker 1: rushing to do it first?
Speaker 2: Like how does that? Michael certainly was not rushing.
Speaker 3: There was going to be there, just wouldn't it wouldn't
Speaker 3: be you know, Like I was like, oh, you know,
Speaker 3: I think I think I'm going I started to sort
Speaker 3: of whispering it to a couple of friends.
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, I think I might ask him
Speaker 2: and we'll have a party.
Speaker 3: Like it's just a moment about the party, celebration getting
Speaker 3: everyone together. As daunting as that is too, because a
Speaker 3: wedding for anyone, not just SKay couples, but like that's
Speaker 3: when you put all your friends together, all your families
Speaker 3: and you know, you know, my parents had remarried, so
Speaker 3: there was two lots of families coming, so you know,
Speaker 3: all that run through my mind as I was like
Speaker 3: do I really ask them or do we just carry.
Speaker 2: On as you know as thing? But yeah, the urge
Speaker 2: for a big party certainly was more overwhelming, and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: fuck it, I'm going to do it.
Speaker 3: There's no way, like neither it's are overly romantic. I
Speaker 3: would say, we're thoughtful, but we're not romantic. So I
Speaker 3: don't think it's something that I thought you would ever do.
Speaker 3: I don't think, you know, if I'm honest, I would.
Speaker 2: With the status quo of you know, we're together, that
Speaker 2: we're a family.
Speaker 3: With you know, we don't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was the best thing in recopect. Now
Speaker 2: it is the best thing. But you know, I wouldn't
Speaker 2: have popped the question, Oh.
Speaker 1: Wow, so that's good then, and so you knew it
Speaker 1: wasn't like, oh my god, who's going to do it?
Speaker 1: When so awkward?
Speaker 3: I think if Michael had asked, it would have been
Speaker 3: in the sense of do you want to, Oh, we.
Speaker 1: Should probably just do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, oh my god, I love it.
Speaker 1: And so same sex marriage became legal in twenty seventeen, right,
Speaker 1: so you had a year to plan it, and then
Speaker 1: it was with balloons with pictures everywhere.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1: The albums that you printed.
Speaker 2: Out from the albums that I've got to hear in
Speaker 2: the kitchen Covens.
Speaker 3: Yes, I just went through because all our albums are
Speaker 3: everything's in order. So I just went through, turning pages
Speaker 3: till I got to the next year, and I just
Speaker 3: pulled one photo out from that and then I just
Speaker 3: had them all laminated and attached to balloons. And a
Speaker 3: friend offered their house. I was like, where can I
Speaker 3: do it. I'll do it here, like I was going
Speaker 3: to do it here or I don't think we're at
Speaker 3: this house, but I was like, no, he'll see it
Speaker 3: or he'll get wind of it happening. So yeah, girlfriend said,
Speaker 3: just do it at my house. I've got, you know,
Speaker 3: a room which I can empty out, and so I
Speaker 3: did and we were on our way home from dinner. Yeah,
Speaker 3: we went to a restaurant that we love because it
Speaker 3: was our anniversary and I said, oh, I've got to
Speaker 3: go around and they text you. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I'm so valible. Like honestly, if someone says, you know
Speaker 2: we're doing this, or you have to do this, or
Speaker 2: I'm going here, I just believe everything and everyone. You know,
Speaker 2: Jaron had some apointments leading up to this. You know,
Speaker 2: I've got to go and help with this selection of
Speaker 2: you know, interior design that this person is doing, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, yeah, no worries.
Speaker 3: Or that was me designing our rings, you know, like.
Speaker 2: I've got no clue. So but yeah, they had had
Speaker 2: a pretense that I had to get Jared there because
Speaker 2: I were going to surprise him.
Speaker 3: But oh my god, double surprise thing. I even can't
Speaker 3: understand it now.
Speaker 2: I was just like, yeah, you were.
Speaker 1: You were probably like, oh my god, we're surprised exactly.
Speaker 3: And I'm texting in the car and he's texting them
Speaker 3: at the same time a bit different reasons, thinking.
Speaker 2: We're getting each other.
Speaker 3: And then we walked into Mars like like to me,
Speaker 3: and I'm like it's no surprise. I'm like, okay, we're here,
Speaker 3: and I'm like, come into this room and we opened
Speaker 3: these double doors and that's where the balloons and my
Speaker 3: mom was like like, oh my god.
Speaker 2: The very first thought that went through my mind though,
Speaker 2: was like, God, this is a bit over the top
Speaker 2: for our friends giving us an anniversary present. Yeah, I've
Speaker 2: done that for us to spen.
Speaker 1: They love us so much.
Speaker 2: And then I realized that it was.
Speaker 1: Jared and your wedding was just absolutely spectacular. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think we got married like not that far away
Speaker 1: from each other, or I had used a lot of
Speaker 1: your pictures ass Bo, like your page was just in
Speaker 1: interest for me, apart from the suits, which obviously I
Speaker 1: did not wear a suit on my wedding day, but
Speaker 1: but your changes halfway through and then read sparkly suits.
Speaker 2: We did a small wedding.
Speaker 3: We had about a hundred guests, but we just wanted
Speaker 3: it intimate, that fun and you know our secure people,
Speaker 3: you know, like our close friends, that we could just
Speaker 3: be ourselves and have be wild and.
Speaker 2: It was really it was a great. Yeah, the wedding
Speaker 2: day was was spectacular, just you know, getting ready with
Speaker 2: the with the bridal party and we had all life
Speaker 2: photos down pre wedding so we could be party longer
Speaker 2: once we arrived there. We're not going anywhere to everyone
Speaker 2: else goes home, and we mentioned that in my speech
Speaker 2: as well as like we're not doing the farewell at
Speaker 2: eleven o'clock and wave goodbye to you all, you know,
Speaker 2: like we're always going to be we'll laughing.
Speaker 3: That was great.
Speaker 2: It was a great celebration. The ceremony itself was really beautiful.
Speaker 2: Hearing Jared's bows was really special. But the having as
Speaker 2: Jared mentioned the nearest and dearest in the room with
Speaker 2: us who had played such a part of our lives
Speaker 2: in Melbourne, and yeah, and followed us from you know,
Speaker 2: two guys to know our family with beautiful reads.
Speaker 3: So it was.
Speaker 2: Really a celebration for them as well to thank them
Speaker 2: for you know, what they've given to us. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: it was it was unreal. It was the best night
Speaker 2: of our lives.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. It looked so beautiful and that radiated
Speaker 1: out that there was no like you weren't in neither
Speaker 1: of your bride dialers. It was just looked so much fun,
Speaker 1: like you were having the time of your lives. And
Speaker 1: now you tell us about June.
Speaker 3: And as you know, we're being foster parent and we
Speaker 3: were credited about a year and a half ago and
Speaker 3: through that process you're I don't know whether the word
Speaker 3: profiled is the right word, but it's you know, what
Speaker 3: we said all along is we don't whatever we do,
Speaker 3: any decisions we make, regardless of fostering or not, we
Speaker 3: don't want to impact on Reed's childhood. We want him
Speaker 3: to have the childhood he deserves. So when we were profiled,
Speaker 3: if you will, through fostering they've sort of said, yeah,
Speaker 3: best choice of our best placements for you would be
Speaker 3: between the ages of zero and maybe two and a
Speaker 3: half three years old, just that it would fit into
Speaker 3: your family. So that's why I think it took a
Speaker 3: lot longer to get any placements. And Little Junior came
Speaker 3: with like it was an hour's notice, and then it
Speaker 3: was half an hour's notice, like we'll be a house
Speaker 3: in thirty minutes. And I've got this photo which I'll
Speaker 3: share with you offline, of Reid's face in the car
Speaker 3: on speakerphone when he said, like when the focal came
Speaker 3: through and they said, we're sending a baby to your house.
Speaker 3: Like it's making memmost thinking about now, but it's something
Speaker 3: that he, you know, wanted so so much. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: I just because I take a photo of sucking everything, I.
Speaker 1: Know, I love it. You're you, and I are just
Speaker 1: like it's amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: We pulled overside the car and they're talking and I
Speaker 3: could hear it building and Read was trying to be
Speaker 3: quite act like he wasn't there, and I was just like,
Speaker 3: I have my phone in my hand, and I just
Speaker 3: I've got to capture this moment for ourselves. So that
Speaker 3: will never I'll never shed it online, but just that
Speaker 3: it's an incredible moment for him and he understands what
Speaker 3: we're doing, like he understands.
Speaker 2: What it is.
Speaker 3: It's not that he's lonely and says, you know, I
Speaker 3: just I've got to have this. He was. He's just like,
Speaker 3: we're helping a family. We're helped, we're doing something good
Speaker 3: and doing all the training that you do with fostering.
Speaker 3: It makes you very aware that you're doing this for them,
Speaker 3: for the child, not for yourself or for you know,
Speaker 3: I mean part of it.
Speaker 2: See you feel good, But at the end of the
Speaker 2: game is reunification and that's that's what That's what we're
Speaker 2: always going to aim for. They hope for that.
Speaker 3: You know, the system works, and the system looks after
Speaker 3: the child and its best interest is where it needs
Speaker 3: to be, and if that's with us for eighteen years,
Speaker 3: then that's fine. But if it's not, we can't you say,
Speaker 3: you know that. One of the biggest questions that we've
Speaker 3: had online is like, oh, how on earth could you
Speaker 3: give him up? You know, like us give it up
Speaker 3: at the end. Well, that's the plan, you.
Speaker 2: Know, is that you have been there for for you know, mums,
Speaker 2: dad's babies, to help them work through the measures they
Speaker 2: have to before they can be their own little family again.
Speaker 1: And you guys are giving little Junior so much love,
Speaker 1: like watching Read looking after it is just so beautiful.
Speaker 1: The way he's like taken on this like brotherly nurturing role.
Speaker 1: I think something that shines through so much much about
Speaker 1: the way that you've parented and the way that you've
Speaker 1: instilled kindness and your values into Read, and then the
Speaker 1: way he applies it in his life is and also
Speaker 1: the way you guys have such a beautiful balance between like,
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, you take a lot of photos of things,
Speaker 1: but a lot of it gets chosen specifically not to
Speaker 1: go on your account, Like you share a lot, but
Speaker 1: you also don't share a lot and keep a lot
Speaker 1: of moments private to yourself. And then Read gets a
Speaker 1: lot of airtime. But then there are certain things that
Speaker 1: he he also likes to keep private. And I think
Speaker 1: you guys have just navigated it so well.
Speaker 3: There is a lot you know, and people say, oh,
Speaker 3: you share your lives or yeah, you share everything online
Speaker 3: and well I don't. As you know, an instant story
Speaker 3: is fifteen seconds and yeah, maybe four hours. So there's
Speaker 3: a hell of a lot that doesn't go online, and
Speaker 3: you know, a lot of it is approved or not
Speaker 3: approved by Read. And you know, he nine times out
Speaker 3: of ten because he's born and bred, you know, into
Speaker 3: a family that has shared our lives for so long,
Speaker 3: and that stands. And he'll give me a disclaimer going,
Speaker 3: do not tell anyone. I don't share this, you know,
Speaker 3: because he might be making crafting and he's not happy
Speaker 3: with it, or he just wants a moment that you know.
Speaker 3: So he's totally in charge of what content we do
Speaker 3: share and don't share.
Speaker 2: And yeah, oh.
Speaker 1: That's so beautiful, and it seems like it's a family
Speaker 1: decision as well, like no one's sort of uncomfortable with anything.
Speaker 1: Did you guys consider having another child yourself?
Speaker 3: Absolutely? It wasn't until probably I think two years after
Speaker 3: we had Read is about the time that I noticed
Speaker 3: all our other friends seemed to have their second child.
Speaker 3: They seem to have a two year old, and then
Speaker 3: they have an impact.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't really it's a cycle cycle.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it wasn't really something back then that I think.
Speaker 3: I think we were just so grateful, so happy, and.
Speaker 2: We were really privileged to be parents. You know, Read's
Speaker 2: pregnancy was troubled. I think there were shoes and.
Speaker 3: We had discouraged before him, so we had the heartbreak
Speaker 3: that you know, and Read was a frozen embryo, so
Speaker 3: we sort of experienced not what other people go through,
Speaker 3: because to carry a child is incredible, like and you
Speaker 3: lose a child like that, but some sense of you know,
Speaker 3: like it's out of our control, you.
Speaker 2: Know, like, yeah, we were already blessed that. When Red
Speaker 2: was born, the doctors expected him to go into like
Speaker 2: a high dependency unit because his kidneys weren't developing and
Speaker 2: he was born a month prem and they were sort
Speaker 2: of thinking that I have to intervene, and that didn't happen.
Speaker 2: He was born, He was in our arms in two minutes.
Speaker 2: He was healthy, one hundred percent. Everything that they were
Speaker 2: worried about didn't come to fruition. So we were so blessed.
Speaker 2: But that rollercoaster of those emotions, you know, throughout the
Speaker 2: pregnancy were still very strong. So we were just very
Speaker 2: grateful for a healthy child. We didn't think we could
Speaker 2: risk that again, you know, like it was like blood,
Speaker 2: hell loves. We're so blessed, you know, enjoy our family.
Speaker 3: We're very lucky.
Speaker 2: So it wasn't until just five years ago. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: that you sort of start to.
Speaker 3: Think, oh, I'm getting older, like in that whole you know,
Speaker 3: you put pressure on yourself going, oh I think old
Speaker 3: now to maybe look in look into doing this. And
Speaker 3: then we did start looking into it, and again very
Speaker 3: very difficult, very difficult legally to.
Speaker 2: Do it, and have since changed their laws and the
Speaker 2: same sex surrogacy is not an option anymore, so that's
Speaker 2: off the table. And that's when we were at an
Speaker 2: Australia Day luncheon and somebody looked at us and came
Speaker 2: up and started chatting, and she assumed that Reid was adopted,
Speaker 2: and we just got chatting about that and said, oh,
Speaker 2: my girlfriend has a beautiful charity. They're just starting their
Speaker 2: own fostering. And we looked at each other and thought, okay,
Speaker 2: this is it. Yeah, went down the training and the
Speaker 2: accreditation for fostering, but yeah, it's still in our minds. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's certainly stronger than ever now. Yes that it's not
Speaker 2: off the time.
Speaker 3: We wish it was easier, you know, we wish it
Speaker 3: was even international. Sorry, so if we go to America like,
Speaker 3: look at the last two years, like the thought of
Speaker 3: being stuck somewhere, or like how does that all work?
Speaker 3: That just adds so much more complexity to it happening.
Speaker 3: So for now, we will just be happy with what
Speaker 3: we've got, Honey.
Speaker 1: Well, I think something else that's really resonating for me
Speaker 1: over this whole chat is that there are so many
Speaker 1: milestones in your life, like read and then marriage and
Speaker 1: then Junior that you didn't even know you were aiming
Speaker 1: for until they stumbled into your life somehow, absolutely, And
Speaker 1: I think that's so beautiful because it's left you both
Speaker 1: with It seems like this trust that let's just enjoy
Speaker 1: now because like we don't know what's going to happen
Speaker 1: next year or in ten years. And I think in
Speaker 1: a time like this where the uncertainty, life is always uncertain,
Speaker 1: but the uncertainty is so intense right now hearing you
Speaker 1: guys just trust that the next chapter might be something
Speaker 1: you don't even know exists. Yet it's so reassuring. It's
Speaker 1: such a lovely message.
Speaker 2: I think there's something that we try and still as read.
Speaker 2: The only thing we can control right now is how
Speaker 2: I'm feeling right now, you know, so it's.
Speaker 3: That's coming up more and more now at his age
Speaker 3: of eleven, him worrying about out you know the scenarios
Speaker 3: you know like this, and we're like at the moment,
Speaker 3: you're in this one. So you know, like whatever that
Speaker 3: may be, in whatever he's only got yellow wool. You know.
Speaker 2: You're in this situation now, don't worry about getting made
Speaker 2: by wool.
Speaker 1: Just chill, just chill. Well, the last couple of questions
Speaker 1: for you guys are more around the idea of play,
Speaker 1: which is like, again, like so much of what people
Speaker 1: probably ask you about I want to talk about is
Speaker 1: like really serious messaging about inclusion and family and you know,
Speaker 1: self acceptance and all that kind of stuff. But in
Speaker 1: between all of that, how do you guys just play?
Speaker 1: And for Michael, like outside of work, is there a
Speaker 1: way that you just like switch off from kind of
Speaker 1: productive like let's achieve things you and just forget what
Speaker 1: time it is? Like what do you guys do for fun?
Speaker 2: Rugs?
Speaker 1: And that's not a you For me, I.
Speaker 2: Think something that we really enjoy together is walking. We
Speaker 2: going for a stroll, taking the dogs for a walk,
Speaker 2: taking in a junior in the pram.
Speaker 3: Now where we do the most, talking the most because
Speaker 3: you're constantly like concentrating on each other, put in.
Speaker 2: The fine away and just you know, going for an
Speaker 2: hour's walk is something that we really both enjoy. It's
Speaker 2: really it's really good for us. Cooking is something that
Speaker 2: I get inspired with and then I'll be gangbusters for
Speaker 2: a few weeks, and then I won't want to touch
Speaker 2: up pot again for another few.
Speaker 1: It's like hard and fast, hard and fast.
Speaker 3: Absolutely renovating that's a fun thing. We we love doing them.
Speaker 3: We've done a few houses ourselves.
Speaker 2: Because I'm a builder by trade. I left school. My
Speaker 2: first job was an apprentice carpenter, so.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you're chippy earlier.
Speaker 2: So I've spent eight years in the building industry. So
Speaker 2: when we buy property, we try to do a lot
Speaker 2: of work ourselves. So that's something that Jared's got a
Speaker 2: really great eye for design and detail and expensive things
Speaker 2: to make it look rain in the budget on a budget.
Speaker 1: I love that you guys are doing some of your
Speaker 1: reno's in down on the Peninsula, and I think you
Speaker 1: posted the other day how annoying it is that you're
Speaker 1: missing all the hot trads like you keep getting videos
Speaker 1: of them, but you can't actually be there to purb
Speaker 1: on them all day.
Speaker 3: And then I'm like, oh, the actual trades that are there,
Speaker 3: Like they know about social media.
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, maybe they saw that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they probably did.
Speaker 3: Hopefully they've all finished by the time it's lockdowns over
Speaker 3: and I don't actually meet them ever.
Speaker 1: Have to make them so awkward, so lovely the.
Speaker 2: Others a few of them are. Then I heard they laughed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh my god, I love that so much. Second
Speaker 1: last question, which I think you should answer for each
Speaker 1: other to just like dish the tea, what are three
Speaker 1: interesting things about you that don't normally come up in conversation.
Speaker 1: Which is easy for you because this is your first
Speaker 1: podcast conversation, so it can be anything don't.
Speaker 3: Come up in conversation three things about you.
Speaker 1: Or just like the people like. The way I describe
Speaker 1: it is, what would your partner know about you just
Speaker 1: from living with you, or anyone who like had stayed
Speaker 1: at your house would know about you that your other
Speaker 1: friends wouldn't, Like quirky little things that you do, like
Speaker 1: sing in the shower, or like the sleep eating that
Speaker 1: I told you about that I do like only people
Speaker 1: who have stayed somewhere with me know that I do
Speaker 1: that because there are always packets of food around my head.
Speaker 3: Oh god, I really should have That's yeah, this is
Speaker 3: focused on I actually do share so much of like Michael,
Speaker 3: you know, like quirks that there's not a lot that
Speaker 3: people wouldn't know about.
Speaker 1: The do you have party tricks? Like it is the
Speaker 1: like do you juggle? Or are there like weird boring?
Speaker 1: You're not boring, you guys, you are so not okay,
Speaker 1: Oh okay, maybe okay. The first one can be like
Speaker 1: who is the most so who is the most fashionable?
Speaker 1: Between you?
Speaker 3: That's again neither of us. That's definitely definitely Jared.
Speaker 2: Jared would like I'll put oh yeah to big whole
Speaker 2: faith in Jared going shopping for me, no problems at all.
Speaker 2: He can go buy me shoes, pants, shirts, whatever like
Speaker 2: that would be fine. I would wear that, no problems
Speaker 2: at all. But I don't think I've ever once bought
Speaker 2: something for him that hasn't gone back.
Speaker 1: Always have the gift receipts, even.
Speaker 3: When he had bag.
Speaker 2: I'm like, have you got the receipt because you haven't.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Sometimes I say you want a seat
Speaker 3: and you say no, and then I have to go
Speaker 3: back and do the whole bloody pantomime for them as
Speaker 3: to why I've got this item and I'm bringing it back.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: But do you go share a wardrobe? Like, do you
Speaker 1: ever share a wardrobe? Do you cross over? Do you
Speaker 1: steal each other's clothes or.
Speaker 2: Wade a bit?
Speaker 3: So sometimes we do fit into each other cloth, sometimes not.
Speaker 3: But when every time we get dressed, it's sort of
Speaker 3: like i'd stand at the bottom of the stairs and
Speaker 3: Michael has to come and show me what he's wearing,
Speaker 3: because we can't wear the same thing, you know, like
Speaker 3: the same the same shirt. Because I'll buy like a
Speaker 3: pair of trousers and I buy it like four pairs
Speaker 3: all because they fit well.
Speaker 2: And your shirt.
Speaker 3: So if there's a shirt I like, I'm like, I'm
Speaker 3: come home and I wear it for a couple of days,
Speaker 3: and then I go and buy two more of them
Speaker 3: because I'm like, when this one wears out, I'll have that.
Speaker 3: Sometimes our wardrobe is very much like three of the
Speaker 3: same things. And then it's whilst he's working away it's
Speaker 3: been good and like take whatever you want, wear whatever
Speaker 3: you want.
Speaker 2: In my home.
Speaker 3: It's like we're standing at the top of the stairs
Speaker 3: going that.
Speaker 1: You know, so there's sections right like you do. There's
Speaker 1: not just a wardrobe. You have your own. That doesn't
Speaker 1: surprise me at all.
Speaker 2: A lot of a lot of ging.
Speaker 1: What about if you're on a desert island. What are
Speaker 1: the three things you would have have to take? Each other?
Speaker 1: Answer for each other, like, couldn't live without it.
Speaker 3: Couldn't live without Michael, couldn't live without a bottle of pinot.
Speaker 1: Oh, yes, nice.
Speaker 3: I don't think Jared could live without the Internet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he'd take the Internet.
Speaker 2: But if there was no reception on that desert island,
Speaker 2: he would go ape ship Like if there was a
Speaker 2: technical no what what Spotify? Yeah, if there was no
Speaker 2: music like no, yeah, yeah, yeah, three things. Yeah, So
Speaker 2: Jared would have to take the whole of the Internet.
Speaker 2: He would have to take music. You would have to
Speaker 2: have that at your fingertips.
Speaker 1: The entire Spotify. Also, that's kind of inside the Internet.
Speaker 3: That's true. That's true.
Speaker 1: I love how your son has like not figured into
Speaker 1: this conversation.
Speaker 3: Yea, the Internet, you, Michael would be his revolting biscuit pillow.
Speaker 3: Even like we take down to the beach house, he
Speaker 3: has to take this disgusting. LaTeX's also latex pill latex pillow,
Speaker 3: but it's like way for thin. I'm like, it's like
Speaker 3: having the Oh my.
Speaker 1: God, that's why you call it biscuits. Literally, I thought
Speaker 1: you were like a Scotch finger.
Speaker 3: Revolting so many like players over just to hide its grossness.
Speaker 3: His pello and I can't sleep without a I'm like,
Speaker 3: you lay on it. It's like having no pellow.
Speaker 2: So just try now, Oh no.
Speaker 1: No, we can't do that. I like, see, these are
Speaker 1: the things that I love, those weird cloks, like the
Speaker 1: biscuit pillow.
Speaker 2: It's annoying.
Speaker 3: And because when we're going down and we go down
Speaker 3: in separate cars, I don't get the biscuit. It's like
Speaker 3: you got my biscuit.
Speaker 1: Like And also then when you want to like have
Speaker 1: your photo in the background of like content or something
Speaker 1: like your bed in the background, and then you've got
Speaker 1: like one bit fluffy pillow and then this fairal biscuit.
Speaker 1: Yeah get it. I totally get it. That's just a
Speaker 1: far buzz kill.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a turner buzz girl.
Speaker 1: You have pet peeves of each other, and you can't
Speaker 1: use biscuits because you already used it.
Speaker 3: Michael's just falls asleep all the time, like seriously, at
Speaker 3: any any opportunity and a little bit of quietness.
Speaker 1: And it's just all of the times.
Speaker 3: Like that's why the run took so long to be
Speaker 3: cut is because there was just knuck a lipsy Like seriously,
Speaker 3: I'm like, you're sleeping whiles sleeping, you can't possibly.
Speaker 2: If there was a quiet bit of time, you know,
Speaker 2: perhaps reas doing homeschooling, Junior's having a nap. I'll take
Speaker 2: the moment to reset, have a bit of a nap,
Speaker 2: you know, even if it's five ten minutes. Jared will
Speaker 2: take that five to ten minutes to clean something. So
Speaker 2: going on, he's the one he'll be like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: that that window. Let me clean the window, which is
Speaker 2: something I'm very grateful for.
Speaker 3: We've got a very clean house.
Speaker 2: I'm very and tidy. Jared's very pedantic when.
Speaker 1: It comes to your procrastic clean services.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I've loosened up in the last two years with life.
Speaker 2: Had no visitors, so you know, yeah, I'm sure the
Speaker 2: cushions aren't up right upstairs.
Speaker 1: That's because of the fucking biscuit babe. That's very last question,
Speaker 1: what is your favorite quote.
Speaker 3: Look this like I love I love a good quote.
Speaker 3: I love other people's quotes more than you know, our
Speaker 3: repetitive one. But the one we seed to go back
Speaker 3: to a lot is people's opinions none of your business,
Speaker 3: nor should you make them yours.
Speaker 1: I love that one so much and so important now
Speaker 1: that I feel like the scale of opinion expression has
Speaker 1: gone up exponentially in the last couple of us, Like
Speaker 1: it's just opinion central. So I think that's such a good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I respect everyone's got an opinion, whether
Speaker 3: that be about the current environment that we're living in,
Speaker 3: but it's none of my business.
Speaker 1: Well, guys, thank you so much for this. I cannot
Speaker 1: believe how long I've chewed your ear off. This is
Speaker 1: like double the length of a normal episode. But you
Speaker 1: were just so amazing, so kind and generous, and I
Speaker 1: love you guys, even more than I did before.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Thanks so much, and we'll see
Speaker 3: you at the park.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I really think this is one of my favorite episodes ever,
Speaker 1: partly because of how exciting it is to sit down
Speaker 1: with someone who's never told their story this way before.
Speaker 1: It was such a privilege. They were both so nervous,
Speaker 1: but they did so well. I often say after these
Speaker 1: episodes that I just want to spend more time with
Speaker 1: our guest and be around their energy and just absorb
Speaker 1: all their wisdom. And the Dads are just like that.
Speaker 1: If you follow them already you'll know what I mean.
Speaker 1: In fact, if you didn't follow them already, but you
Speaker 1: listen to this episode, I'm sure you'll know what I mean.
Speaker 1: They're just so funny and self deprecating and you'll want
Speaker 1: to be their best friend. But they're also really on
Speaker 1: a serious note, flying the flag for the non traditional
Speaker 1: family structure and reminding how love really does conquer all.
Speaker 1: If you don't already, do yourself as a favor and
Speaker 1: please go and follow Real Dads of Melbourne. The link
Speaker 1: to their Instagram and spelling and all the unders scores
Speaker 1: is in the show notes. And if you enjoyed listening along,
Speaker 1: give them an early Christmas prosy and share the episode
Speaker 1: and any of your thoughts or takeaways, tagging them and us,
Speaker 1: Especially given that it's their first time, I would love
Speaker 1: to show them how much impact this episode has made,
Speaker 1: particularly given that the dad's only found out about surrogacy
Speaker 1: through a TV show and a conversation there, and perhaps
Speaker 1: this conversation can be that for some of the other
Speaker 1: families listening. So if you did have any takeaways, find
Speaker 1: out anything new, or have anything to share, please do
Speaker 1: let them know and share it because it means so
Speaker 1: much to our guests, and I just I love them
Speaker 1: so much and I want them to know that them
Speaker 1: get doing their very first podcast really did make a difference.
Speaker 1: We may squeeze in one more quick yeays of our
Speaker 1: lives with Ange before Chrissy, but if things go pear
Speaker 1: shaped as they seem to be already going with this
Speaker 1: he who must not be named Omicron, I hope you
Speaker 1: guys are all okay. So if I don't see you
Speaker 1: before then or speak to you before, then have the
Speaker 1: most aazing first of season and New Year, no matter
Speaker 1: how or what you're celebrating, Stay safe and hold your
Speaker 1: loved ones very tight, and I'll see you next year.
Speaker 1: And if we do squeeze in another episode, this was
Speaker 1: a really awkward preemptive good bites, like when you say
Speaker 1: goodbye to your friend and then you both walk in
Speaker 1: the same direction, which happens all the time, that would
Speaker 1: be very awkward. But yes, I hope you guys are
Speaker 1: having a wonderful week no matter what happens, and are
Speaker 1: seizing your yea