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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: MoMA Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 1: Hello.

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Speaker 3: I'm Stacy Hicks. I'm the editor of MMA MIA and

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Speaker 3: I'm also the host of our new parenting podcast, Parenting

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Speaker 3: out Loud. And this summer, we're curating your listening with

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Speaker 3: a healthy dose of culture savvy conversations that parents actually want.

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Speaker 3: This holiday season, We're bringing you unmissable episodes right here

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Speaker 3: into your podcast playlist. It's your summer listening sorted. And

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Speaker 3: if you're looking for more to listen to, every Muma

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Speaker 3: Mia podcast is curating some are listening right across the network,

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Speaker 3: from pop culture to beauty to powerful interviews. There's something

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Speaker 3: for everyone. There's a link in the show notes.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Parenting out Loud. I am Jesse Stevens,

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Speaker 2: and I am joined by Amelia Lester Hi Jesse, Hello,

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Speaker 2: and mom and MIAs Deputy editor Stacy Hick.

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Speaker 1: Hello.

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Speaker 2: We talk about some of the stories that dominated the week,

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Speaker 2: because if parents are thinking about it, we're talking about

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Speaker 2: it on today's show. Sleep separation could be the secret

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Speaker 2: to a better quality of life, and one of us

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Speaker 2: is a very early adopter. Plus, why don't men RSVP

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Speaker 2: to party invitations? It's time to get into the hopeless

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Speaker 2: dad's debate? And good night to the bedtime story. What

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Speaker 2: happens when parents stop reading to kids? We're starting to see.

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Speaker 1: But first, in case you missed it, postpartum just got

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Speaker 1: a glow up. Perhaps you're like me and you remember

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Speaker 1: that time as a difficult one. Mesh undies, laundry piles,

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Speaker 1: occasional abouts of crying on the bathroom or kitchen floor anymorey.

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Speaker 3: Will, yes, hand is up, But no, no, no.

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Speaker 1: There are these things called postpartum retreats popping up. They

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Speaker 1: are for mothers to be mothered and for those who

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Speaker 1: can afford them. A writer for US Vogue wrote about

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Speaker 1: one at a Waldorf astoria in California. She spent two

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Speaker 1: nights there two weeks after giving birth, and she enjoyed

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Speaker 1: all sorts of marvelous things, round the clock baby care

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Speaker 1: with duelers on demand. She seriously just had an iPad

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Speaker 1: and she could just be like, I need someone right now, facials,

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Speaker 1: fresh meals, massages, no crying on the kitchen floor. There

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Speaker 1: are others across the United States, and they're now, also

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Speaker 1: in Australia, there's one in Sydney's Double Bay and there

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Speaker 1: is one in Melbourne. These don't come cheap, however, the

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Speaker 1: one in Melbourne is fifty two hundred dollars for four nights.

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Speaker 1: Oh now, we should say that the postpart of retreat

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Speaker 1: is not a new idea. There are many cultures around

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Speaker 1: the world that do recognize the importance of giving women

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Speaker 1: a break after childbirth. So, for instance, in South Korea,

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Speaker 1: the tradition is called Sanu Jewelry one and it refers

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Speaker 1: to care centers where new mothers check in and then

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Speaker 1: they get these nourishing broths and they get really taken

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Speaker 1: care of for weeks, often even months after birth. And

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Speaker 1: there's actually a similar tradition in China where a postpart

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Speaker 1: and parent rests for a month in a kind of

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Speaker 1: confinement and family members attend to the housework and to

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Speaker 1: the older kids. I wish the Western take on this idea,

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Speaker 1: which is brilliant, was accessible to more people. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure in Scandinavia they probably have some kind of

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Speaker 1: government funded program where everyone gets it. And I think

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Speaker 1: it's really important these days because you and new mums

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Speaker 1: are able to live near family members, and for me

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Speaker 1: in particular, it's a really important corrective to a trend

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Speaker 1: that I have experienced firsthand in the US. So my

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Speaker 1: first baby I gave birth to in a so called

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Speaker 1: baby friendly hospital. This is a new trail think in

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Speaker 1: hospitals across America. What this basically amounts to is there's

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Speaker 1: no crash, there's no formula, you have to breastfeed, and

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Speaker 1: there's no assistance at night because the baby has to

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Speaker 1: sleep with you the whole time. So it's baby friendly,

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Speaker 1: but it is not mother friendly. And I'm here for

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Speaker 1: the focus on mothers a little more. Jesse, would you

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Speaker 1: want to go to one of these?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm not sure if I would. I

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Speaker 2: have read a lot about these. I read one article

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Speaker 2: that kind of said, is it I really like all

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Speaker 2: the support in terms of food and you know, even

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Speaker 2: lactation consultants and that kind of stuff is great, But.

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Speaker 3: The broth the broth.

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Speaker 2: But one kind of criticism was saying women don't need

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Speaker 2: a baby robe embroidered with initials, like we've just there

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Speaker 2: are some things that are probably a little too far.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what the Vogue rad got at the Waldorf

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Speaker 1: hotel in California.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so what this essentially is, as you alluded to,

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Speaker 2: is what Trevor Noah has has talked about this among

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Speaker 2: you know, lots of researchers, which is we all like

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Speaker 2: lost our community and now we have to pay to

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Speaker 2: get them back, exactly. And so in an ideal world,

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Speaker 2: you wouldn't have to pay for this kind of service,

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Speaker 2: that would just be on offer. And as someone in

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Speaker 2: I have such privilege when it comes to family and support,

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Speaker 2: and so I think I felt like I sort of

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Speaker 2: got this, like I was able to rely on people

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Speaker 2: who could bring meals and if I needed someone to

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Speaker 2: hold the baby, I could ask them. But I do

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Speaker 2: worry about the disparity here and what class has access

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Speaker 2: to this type of thing, because postpartum depression has so

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Speaker 2: much to do with the environment following birth. And I

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Speaker 2: worry that if it's like, oh, you pay for this,

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Speaker 2: you pay for this, you pay for this, it means

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Speaker 2: that our standard of basic care kind of goes, oh well,

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Speaker 2: that's all outsourced. Like ideally hospitals would do a little

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Speaker 2: bit more of this, maybe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, as opposed to a kick in the pants and

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Speaker 1: some MESHONDI.

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Speaker 3: Is exactly right, I see what about you. I don't

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Speaker 3: know if it's a result of having a baby who

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Speaker 3: was in special care. So I was in hospital for

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Speaker 3: longer than a lot of new mums are.

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Speaker 2: How long were you in hospital?

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Speaker 3: I was in for three weeks before I had my daughter,

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Speaker 3: and then about ten days after she was born. That

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Speaker 3: is a long it's a long time. I knew the

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Speaker 3: meal rotation of that hospital like the back of my way,

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Speaker 3: I've got to have a whole month's worth of it.

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Speaker 3: But I basically had to be dragged out of that place,

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Speaker 3: like I felt very anxious when I was away from

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Speaker 3: the nurses and the heart rate monitors and all of

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Speaker 3: the things. And so I think if something like this

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Speaker 3: had been within my financial reach, I absolutely would have

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Speaker 3: taken it, because it felt like whiplash to go home

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Speaker 3: and to have almost no one around because I'd been

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Speaker 3: in hospital for so long. My husband had to go

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Speaker 3: back to work a couple of weeks after I got home,

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Speaker 3: and it did feel very much like you're alone. And

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Speaker 3: so I and I think there's a certain level of guilt.

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Speaker 3: Not everyone feels this, but I felt very bad if

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Speaker 3: I asked anyone to help me with anything, even if

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Speaker 3: you know. And I think a lot of women feel

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Speaker 3: that they don't want to be a burden. They're like,

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Speaker 3: why am I finding this harder than the average person?

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Speaker 3: So you don't want to reach out, And it almost

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Speaker 3: feels like if you could pay for this, obviously not

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Speaker 3: that amount of money, because that's not achievable for most

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Speaker 3: of us, but if you could pay, it almost takes

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Speaker 3: the guilt away from that, like it's a service, it's transactional.

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Speaker 3: You're helping me and I'm getting something from that. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I remember thinking that if I asked, there were instances

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Speaker 2: where I probably would have liked help, but I didn't

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Speaker 2: want to look like I thought. Your narrative goes so funny.

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Speaker 2: You go, they'll think I don't want to spend time

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Speaker 2: with my baby exactly like they'll think they'll think I

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Speaker 2: had this, that there would be judgment towards me more

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Speaker 2: than an imposition on them. But I want to table

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Speaker 2: one criticism that I heard from a midwife about this

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Speaker 2: kind of thing, and it's that with too too much help.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if I agree with this, but I

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Speaker 2: was interviewing her about these kind of providers and she

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Speaker 2: was saying, when you're in a situation where you are

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Speaker 2: overwhelmed with expertise, whether that be this is how you swaddle,

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Speaker 2: this is nappy, this is breastfeeding. It can undermine the

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Speaker 2: instincts of the parents a little bit. And I know

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Speaker 2: that a lot of people poo pooh the idea of instincts.

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Speaker 2: I think that a lot of us actually just need

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Speaker 2: to learn how to do things. But she said, you

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Speaker 2: shouldn't feel as though you need a university degree before

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Speaker 2: you leave the hospital with a baby. Like, we've got

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Speaker 2: to make sure that we're not telling parents that this

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Speaker 2: is so hard and so complicated that you need to

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Speaker 2: do twelve classes a day in order to cope. Going

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Speaker 2: and working it out is kind of part of the experience.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's it. I feel like we are so

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Speaker 3: overly prepared now, like we do courses. People here who

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Speaker 3: are pregnant, we kind of are saying to them, well,

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Speaker 3: you've got two jobs now, because you've got to keep

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Speaker 3: up with all of the appointments and the lessons and

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Speaker 3: all of the things. So maybe it does get in

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Speaker 3: the way of your instincts and just well, I've just

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Speaker 3: got to get through this rough patch and then we'll

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Speaker 3: be fine. An article about the benefits of getting a

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Speaker 3: sleep divorce caught my eye this week and I need

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Speaker 3: everyone to know about it. Writing for The Conversation, Monash

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Speaker 3: University's psychology fellow, Alex Malaw explored the many reasons otherwise

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Speaker 3: perfectly happy couples might choose to sleep separately and how

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Speaker 3: it can actually lead to a better night's sleep. She said, well,

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Speaker 3: many people say they prefer to sleep or sleep better

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Speaker 3: next to their partner when scientists measure sleep objectively, such

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Speaker 3: as through an electro in cephalogram, And yes, I did

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Speaker 3: practice saying that ten times before we hit record. When

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Speaker 3: they use the egs to assess brain waves, the data

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Speaker 3: actually showed poor as sleep quality when co sleeping. So

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Speaker 3: some reasons obviously that people might choose to be in

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Speaker 3: separate beds is conflicting sleep schedules, one person snores or

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Speaker 3: has sleep apnea or insomnia, sleep talking. The list goes on.

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Speaker 3: But the other main catalyst for a sleep divorce can

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Speaker 3: be when kids come into the mix and suddenly sleep

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Speaker 3: is the most precious but often hard to achieve commodity

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Speaker 3: in your life. And now I have something to confess.

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Speaker 3: I have been happily sleep divorced for five years, not

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Speaker 3: actually divorced five years nearly, which is right around the

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Speaker 3: time I started getting pregnancy insomnia, and I'm just never

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Speaker 3: going back. So would either of you consider this? I'm

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Speaker 3: so interested.

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Speaker 2: I have questions for you. First, Please go so far

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Speaker 2: pregnancy in somnia starts. Yes, I was in exactly the

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Speaker 2: same position, and I would go. I was like, I

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Speaker 2: can't be up and down. I can't worry about you.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so I have it to.

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Speaker 2: Separate myself often when the baby comes. If you're going

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Speaker 2: to go, all right, let's take shifts so that we're

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Speaker 2: both not losing sleep. Tell me about the next stage

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Speaker 2: where you're going. You know what I actually like having

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Speaker 2: my own space with a Now how old is your

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Speaker 2: daughter for yeah?

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Speaker 3: Four five?

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Speaker 2: Talked to me about that.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's the thing. It was survival mode at the start.

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Speaker 3: Was it was I needed to sleep, he needed to sleep,

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Speaker 3: and so we would take turns with the monitor. Someone

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Speaker 3: would take a shift, and then it was kind of like,

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Speaker 3: look at this bed with the nice linen I've put

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Speaker 3: on it, and look how dark I can have the

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Speaker 3: room when you like to wake up with the sun

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Speaker 3: and look at how no one stole my quilt in

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Speaker 3: the middle of the night, and it just snowballs to

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Speaker 3: the point where we both were sleeping so much better

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Speaker 3: by sleeping separately, that we both went I think we

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Speaker 3: just have to do that all the time now.

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Speaker 2: And the most urgent question, I mean, how many bloody

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Speaker 2: bedrooms do you have?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 3: This is the thing, this is a big privilege to

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Speaker 3: be able to do. Is I live in the western

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Speaker 3: suburbs of Sydney, so we are very lucky to have

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Speaker 3: three bedrooms. But this is why we can only have

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Speaker 3: one child. There's no more beddom as well. I'm not

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Speaker 3: willing to give mine up. I need to keep it

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Speaker 3: so those kids would be sharing. But it's just worked

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Speaker 3: out so much better. And I have to say, like,

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Speaker 3: I love my husband, but I love him a lot

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Speaker 3: more when I can't hear his snoring or experience the

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Speaker 3: wwe like body slams that he manages to do every

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Speaker 3: time he turns over. So this is definitely a good

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Speaker 3: solution if you're experiencing that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I went deep on this after you mentioned it.

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Speaker 1: I was really curious about when the double bed custom

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Speaker 1: came about, because when you watch old movies and TV shows,

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Speaker 1: the married couples do go to sleep into single beds.

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Speaker 1: So it turns out that it's very recently that we

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Speaker 1: decided that couples have to sleep in the same bed,

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Speaker 1: and we're talking the sixties. Before then, it was actually

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Speaker 1: seen as healthier and more modern for a married couple

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Speaker 1: or a partnered couple to sleep in separate beds. And

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Speaker 1: I love this detail, which is that Victorian doctors said

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Speaker 1: that the weaker sleeper would drain all the vitality from

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Speaker 1: the stronger person.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly what happened.

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Speaker 1: And so it's a very recent thing, and it kind

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Speaker 1: of reminds me. I find it a bit confronting. I

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Speaker 1: won't lie when you told me about it. There is

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Speaker 1: a kind of instinctive idea of like, is there something

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Speaker 1: wrong with their relationship, because we are it's so ingrained

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Speaker 1: in us that married couples sleep in the same bed.

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Speaker 1: But then I got thinking about it, and I remember

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Speaker 1: that Esther Perell's big thing is that we keep expecting

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Speaker 1: one person to be everything, to fulfill all functions, including

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Speaker 1: to be sleep compatible, and this is just taking a

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Speaker 1: little bit of the pressure off. Now that said, I

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Speaker 1: do not have an extra bedroom for people in my situation,

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Speaker 1: I would recommend mouth tape every better.

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Speaker 2: We have a like a day bed in Luna's room,

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Speaker 2: so it's like if you sleep separately. Yep, you go

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Speaker 2: and you sleep and it's tiny, like you roll off

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Speaker 2: and you break it arm. But we did that for

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Speaker 2: the first six months. Lucas slept in the nursery on

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Speaker 2: the day bed and Luna and I were in the

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Speaker 2: big room with the big bed. But it was interesting

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Speaker 2: the moment we decided to come back and I was like,

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Speaker 2: I don't get to sprawl, I don't get a blanket like.

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Speaker 1: This is so did you consider ever keeping you.

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Speaker 2: The other bed was more comfortable? I have time for it.

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Speaker 2: And then I was having a think about what the

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Speaker 2: stigma is.

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Speaker 1: Right, And there is a stigma.

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Speaker 2: There is stigma, and it's to do with intimacy. And

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Speaker 2: I also think that it's a suggestion that it will

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Speaker 2: absolutely kill your sex life, right, because come on, you've

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Speaker 2: got to seek the same bed.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, that is the number one question we won't ask you.

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Speaker 2: What's funny about that, right, is that it's like how

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Speaker 2: many people are rolling over at two am and being like,

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Speaker 2: now that I can feel you there, we should have

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Speaker 2: spontaneous two am sex and that keeps our relationships strong. Like, no,

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Speaker 2: you wake up at two am, you hit the other

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Speaker 2: person in the face. I do it all the time.

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Speaker 2: To Luca exactly, he mumbles, sleep talk, we fight, and

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Speaker 2: then in the morning we're shitty at each other, Like

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Speaker 2: any sort of intimacy is not happening.

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Speaker 3: No, I think you are much more likely to want

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Speaker 3: to be intimate with your partner if you don't want

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Speaker 3: to kill them. Yeah, exactly. And some of the studies

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Speaker 3: she cited in this piece spoke about how clients reported

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Speaker 3: that sleeping alone can alleviate some of the anxiety they

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Speaker 3: have around sleep because if they're the person who's disturbing

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Speaker 3: the other person, if they're the snorer, then they're having

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Speaker 3: less quality sleep because they're worried about waking the other person.

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Speaker 3: So they've actually found that people sleeping separately means that

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Speaker 3: there's not that stress as they're going to sleep themselves.

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Speaker 2: I also find that when I've gone through periods of insomnia,

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Speaker 2: having someone beside you who's asleep is really distressing. Yes,

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Speaker 2: it's like it's real because you go wishing, Oh, you're furious,

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Speaker 2: you're absolutely angry, and it also means I've a partner

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Speaker 2: who goes to bed a lot earlier than me, and

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Speaker 2: that's bed time in our house. I have to go

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Speaker 2: to bed, and if I fall into the habit of

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Speaker 2: then scrolling on my phone for the two hours where

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Speaker 2: he's asleep and I'm not ready to go to sleep yet,

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Speaker 2: terrible for your brain. So it's like I've had to

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Speaker 2: start to do like the Kindle or whatever. You can't

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Speaker 2: you can't read a print book, can you know.

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Speaker 1: This also reminded me of I used to live in Japan,

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Speaker 1: and when you travel around Japan you go to traditional inns,

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Speaker 1: they often have a tatami matte arrangement where whole families

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Speaker 1: will sleep in one room on tatarmi. So it just

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Speaker 1: was a reminder that the thing that we think is

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Speaker 1: the default is not the default for a lot of

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Speaker 1: people around the world and through human history.

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Speaker 2: Is it a really big space where the family will sleep, not.

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Speaker 1: Especially big, but it feels like it's a very different

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Speaker 1: way of sleeping because instead of being given this prescribed

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Speaker 1: rectangle to sleep on, there's a sense of like you've

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Speaker 1: got more latitude to move around because you're all just sleeping. However,

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Speaker 1: you like and in whatever shape you like in this room.

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Speaker 1: So cool. I want to talk about a particular type

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Speaker 1: of person who I think we all know, who we

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Speaker 1: may even have in our lives. Right now, let me

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Speaker 1: back up and say why I started thinking about this.

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Speaker 1: A Shanty, the singer A Shanty, and the rapper Nelly

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Speaker 1: recently had a baby together, which is lovely and Nellie

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Speaker 1: seems very happy about it. But in a recent interview,

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Speaker 1: a joint interview, he was sitting beside a Shanty, and

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Speaker 1: he said to her baby, I'll give you the world,

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Speaker 1: but I just ain't changing no diaper, and as Shanty responded,

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Speaker 1: the only way women for millennia have responded to such

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Speaker 1: a statement, which was with an eye roll. A similar

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Speaker 1: display of this was evident in an interview that Nick

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Speaker 1: Cannon did recently. The singer who you may know, has

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Speaker 1: twelve children, and the interview. For some reason, this interview

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Speaker 1: was taking place on pilates mats, but I don't know

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Speaker 1: why that is. But the interviewer asked Nick to run

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Speaker 1: through his twelve children's names, and let's just listen to

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Speaker 1: what happened next. What are their names? You want?

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Speaker 3: A twelve twelve names? This is where I usually get

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Speaker 3: in trouble.

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Speaker 1: Why because you don't know all of that. I know

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Speaker 1: all of them.

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Speaker 2: But like our label last you see keep me, keep

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Speaker 2: me honest. There's rock Roll, Golden, Powerful, Rise ONYX, Legendary, Zion,

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Speaker 2: zillion Zin and just see this is where I.

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Speaker 3: Uh, you're missing too, I'm missing two.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a little that's where a huts off. So look,

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Speaker 1: these two men seem like nice people, but they are

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Speaker 1: what I would call hopeless dads. And these are dads.

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Speaker 1: They're not deeply problematic in any way, but they're just

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Speaker 1: kind of hopeless when it comes to the task of

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Speaker 1: raising children. So now that I've named this phenomenon and

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Speaker 1: described this type of person, I suspect you're going to

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Speaker 1: have a lot of examples for me. And the newsletter

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Speaker 1: writer Wehena Moya, who has a great parent in newsletter,

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Speaker 1: had one recently. She asked, do dads know how to RSVP?

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Speaker 1: She wrote, I'd love to know what goes through dad's

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Speaker 1: minds when they receive kid party invitations. I don't mean

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Speaker 1: this in a snarky way. I am truly curious and

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Speaker 1: want to understand do they think not my department or

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Speaker 1: my partner must be on this invite and they'll take

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Speaker 1: care of it. So I can really relate to that.

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Speaker 1: I just was planning a kid's birthday party, and as

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Speaker 1: a little social experiment, I did send half the invitations

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Speaker 1: to the dads on the parent contact list and half

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Speaker 1: the invitations to the moms.

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Speaker 2: And what did you find.

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Speaker 3: Well, it was a little predictable.

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Speaker 1: The women responded and the men did not. So I

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Speaker 1: just started sending them in extremely passive, aggressive, polite messages saying, Hey,

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Speaker 1: any chance that you know whether you can make it

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Speaker 1: to this kid's birthday party. Some of them just never

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Speaker 1: responded to me and then showed up at the party.

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Speaker 1: At this point, I need to make clear that this

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Speaker 1: is obviously not all men. I'm not doing that eye

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Speaker 1: rolling at all men comedy routine that's almost become a

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Speaker 1: cliche at this point. But the question I want to

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Speaker 1: ask you both is do we deal with the hopeless

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Speaker 1: dads just by kind of shrugging our shoulders and figuring

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Speaker 1: that's how men are. Or are these hopeless dads actually

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Speaker 1: creating very real domestic labor imbalances and kind of getting

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Speaker 1: away with it under the guys of being.

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Speaker 2: Hopeless They are, and part of it is weaponized in

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Speaker 2: competence in terms of it just gets too hard to

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Speaker 2: have them do the task, so you know, women step

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Speaker 2: in and that leads to serious inequality and I think

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Speaker 2: resentment within a relationship. But there was such a fantastic

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Speaker 2: point in this newsletter that I think really highlighted why

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Speaker 2: some dad's about a rsvping, and it's that if you

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Speaker 2: have never organized a kid's birthday party, you don't understand

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Speaker 2: how important rsvping is. And so the reality is that

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Speaker 2: mostly it's mother's doing it. Having done it, they're going,

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Speaker 2: I should let them know asap so that they can

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Speaker 2: book it, whereas dads are going, what does it matter

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Speaker 2: if I show up or I don't.

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Speaker 1: And the reason why it matters is because if you

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00:20:24,149 --> 00:20:28,269
Speaker 1: do not have enough goodie bags, yeah, all hell will break.

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Speaker 2: Loose, exactly right, and I'll be your kid crying. And

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Speaker 2: women know that not because it is innate to women,

404
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Speaker 2: but because it has been so practiced, and.

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Speaker 1: They don't teach us that the postpartum retreat the importance

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Speaker 1: of having enough goodie bags. We just have to learn

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Speaker 1: that we learn.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's an important mantra, right because even cooking.

409
00:20:47,189 --> 00:20:50,069
Speaker 2: I didn't cook before and I still can't cook. But

410
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Speaker 2: guess what, there has to be something on a plate, right,

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Speaker 2: So you set up systems, you set up processes, you

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Speaker 2: do trial and error, you work it out. And the

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Speaker 2: idea that you've got to let dads fail a bit

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Speaker 2: and work it out and make mistakes, I think is

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Speaker 2: just a really important one. Like if it's that they

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Speaker 2: don't RSVP and then they show up.

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Speaker 1: And you able to do that and step back. And

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Speaker 1: I also a related question to this is I think

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Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong. You have used the fair

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00:21:18,029 --> 00:21:20,829
Speaker 1: Play playing cards? Can you explain what those are and

421
00:21:20,869 --> 00:21:22,149
Speaker 1: what your experience was with them?

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00:21:22,229 --> 00:21:25,989
Speaker 2: Yeah? The fair Play cards, I just so recommend them

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00:21:25,989 --> 00:21:28,309
Speaker 2: to everyone and they have every Have you heard of them?

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00:21:28,349 --> 00:21:29,309
Speaker 3: Stacy? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: So it has everything that happens in a household, from

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Speaker 2: like who sorts out the house internet to who does

427
00:21:36,949 --> 00:21:40,389
Speaker 2: dental kids dental, to who does clothes all that kind

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Speaker 2: of stuff, and we sorted it out and most of

429
00:21:43,629 --> 00:21:47,469
Speaker 2: the lunar stuff was on me. And I laugh with

430
00:21:47,709 --> 00:21:51,109
Speaker 2: friends that it's like there's never a discussion that clothes

431
00:21:51,149 --> 00:21:53,149
Speaker 2: are on you, that when you go away, packing is

432
00:21:53,149 --> 00:21:56,389
Speaker 2: on you. Yet somehow it is, and you know, Luca

433
00:21:56,429 --> 00:21:58,629
Speaker 2: does take it turns out there a few things he's doing,

434
00:21:58,709 --> 00:22:07,269
Speaker 2: like crims or whatever, which I would say sometimes I'm

435
00:22:07,309 --> 00:22:10,109
Speaker 2: quite happy with that. I will also say this is

436
00:22:10,349 --> 00:22:13,349
Speaker 2: still a massive issue, and I think those examples highlight that.

437
00:22:13,829 --> 00:22:18,109
Speaker 2: But I reckon that we're watching a shift in real time.

438
00:22:18,309 --> 00:22:20,629
Speaker 2: Like I was thinking about the nineties and your Homo

439
00:22:20,709 --> 00:22:25,749
Speaker 2: Simpson and you Ray Romano and like the stereotypical bumbling

440
00:22:25,829 --> 00:22:28,109
Speaker 2: fool dad who didn't know how to do anything and

441
00:22:28,149 --> 00:22:29,949
Speaker 2: just set a funny joke every now and then. They're

442
00:22:29,949 --> 00:22:31,389
Speaker 2: going to work right in front of me where I

443
00:22:31,429 --> 00:22:32,469
Speaker 2: can keep an eye on you.

444
00:22:32,469 --> 00:22:32,949
Speaker 1: You got that.

445
00:22:34,429 --> 00:22:35,189
Speaker 3: Have any home?

446
00:22:35,749 --> 00:22:39,029
Speaker 2: Well, who do you think you're dealing with?

447
00:22:39,189 --> 00:22:39,229
Speaker 3: You?

448
00:22:39,589 --> 00:22:39,709
Speaker 1: Ha?

449
00:22:40,589 --> 00:22:42,829
Speaker 2: I may seem stupid, but that's just to get your

450
00:22:42,829 --> 00:22:48,589
Speaker 2: mother to not ask me to do stuff. And then

451
00:22:48,629 --> 00:22:50,469
Speaker 2: I was looking into this research that said that in

452
00:22:50,509 --> 00:22:55,949
Speaker 2: the nineteen eighties, forty three percent of fathers said they'd

453
00:22:55,989 --> 00:22:58,269
Speaker 2: never changed a nappy. Is this in the US? Forty

454
00:22:58,309 --> 00:23:00,709
Speaker 2: three percent of fathers had never changed nappy. Now that

455
00:23:00,829 --> 00:23:05,269
Speaker 2: number has dropped to just three percent. That's enormous and

456
00:23:05,349 --> 00:23:08,509
Speaker 2: so even like from in an Australian context, you've got

457
00:23:08,869 --> 00:23:11,429
Speaker 2: How Other Dad's Dad, like Hamish Blake's podcast, You've got

458
00:23:11,429 --> 00:23:14,949
Speaker 2: two doting dads with Maddie Ja dadding, and fatherhood is

459
00:23:14,949 --> 00:23:18,909
Speaker 2: becoming a verb in a way that motherhood, okay, has been.

460
00:23:19,029 --> 00:23:22,589
Speaker 1: But I need to confess something. Yeah, I get annoyed

461
00:23:22,589 --> 00:23:24,909
Speaker 1: at the dad's dadding as well. Yeah, tell me, tell

462
00:23:24,949 --> 00:23:27,029
Speaker 1: me it's just like it. Am I just setting that

463
00:23:27,189 --> 00:23:29,589
Speaker 1: up to fail because I'm annoyed at the hopeless dads,

464
00:23:29,669 --> 00:23:32,429
Speaker 1: And then when the dads start talking about dadding, I'm

465
00:23:32,429 --> 00:23:33,589
Speaker 1: sort of annoyed at them too.

466
00:23:34,269 --> 00:23:37,469
Speaker 2: I see, I really like it, I really welcome it.

467
00:23:37,589 --> 00:23:41,949
Speaker 2: And I listened to a series of How Other Dad's

468
00:23:41,989 --> 00:23:44,349
Speaker 2: Dad when I was pregnant, and it actually gave me

469
00:23:44,509 --> 00:23:48,949
Speaker 2: so many tips and insights into parenting from fathers. And

470
00:23:49,029 --> 00:23:51,629
Speaker 2: I think that making those communities, like we're talking about

471
00:23:51,629 --> 00:23:54,229
Speaker 2: the postpartum retreats, right, you then go into a mother's

472
00:23:54,269 --> 00:23:58,229
Speaker 2: group and there is all this shared knowledge and wisdom

473
00:23:58,509 --> 00:24:01,629
Speaker 2: that goes between women. And in defense of some of

474
00:24:01,669 --> 00:24:04,589
Speaker 2: those fathers, they have no equivalent. There's no kind of

475
00:24:04,989 --> 00:24:08,069
Speaker 2: fathers all sitting down and working out how they're going

476
00:24:08,149 --> 00:24:10,189
Speaker 2: to do this. I think there is some milations.

477
00:24:10,109 --> 00:24:13,669
Speaker 1: I love that idea for them too. So here's how

478
00:24:14,109 --> 00:24:17,069
Speaker 1: you replied to what's that message is at a party?

479
00:24:17,509 --> 00:24:20,669
Speaker 3: Exactly? But there are some things that they have just

480
00:24:20,829 --> 00:24:24,629
Speaker 3: probably never done in their entire life, particularly when it's

481
00:24:24,669 --> 00:24:27,429
Speaker 3: a father with the daughter. Like, realize that my husband

482
00:24:27,429 --> 00:24:30,069
Speaker 3: has never tied a hair elastic in his entire life,

483
00:24:30,109 --> 00:24:32,589
Speaker 3: because why would he? So that was a steep linn

484
00:24:32,669 --> 00:24:35,229
Speaker 3: girl that he needed to go on and practice on

485
00:24:35,349 --> 00:24:37,269
Speaker 3: my hair, so he wasn't doing it on a moving

486
00:24:37,349 --> 00:24:40,029
Speaker 3: target to know how to do that. And I think

487
00:24:40,149 --> 00:24:42,549
Speaker 3: there are some things like that that yeah, will have

488
00:24:42,629 --> 00:24:45,309
Speaker 3: just never come across their desk. But there are other

489
00:24:45,349 --> 00:24:49,309
Speaker 3: things like rsvping tool party that aren't really forgivable and

490
00:24:49,349 --> 00:24:51,469
Speaker 3: they should know. And it is good to see that

491
00:24:51,509 --> 00:24:53,509
Speaker 3: the pendulums swinging back the other way.

492
00:24:53,789 --> 00:24:56,829
Speaker 1: I also think that when it comes to talking about

493
00:24:56,909 --> 00:25:01,229
Speaker 1: hopeless dads, what we're really saying is is it okay.

494
00:25:00,909 --> 00:25:03,029
Speaker 3: To let them like back to that idea?

495
00:25:03,189 --> 00:25:08,349
Speaker 1: Yeah, So, for instance, a dad I know who shall

496
00:25:08,469 --> 00:25:14,029
Speaker 1: remain nameless, it's not great at matching the kid's clothes

497
00:25:14,069 --> 00:25:14,669
Speaker 1: to the weather.

498
00:25:15,989 --> 00:25:20,309
Speaker 2: Yeah, Just a hypothetical is that dad good at matching

499
00:25:20,309 --> 00:25:22,029
Speaker 2: his own clothes to the weather, because I have a

500
00:25:22,029 --> 00:25:24,189
Speaker 2: lot of men who are not. For example, my own

501
00:25:24,229 --> 00:25:25,189
Speaker 2: father would.

502
00:25:25,029 --> 00:25:27,589
Speaker 1: Be in short, great point, it's a really great point.

503
00:25:27,989 --> 00:25:31,829
Speaker 1: And the question becomes do I let them? Meaning do

504
00:25:31,909 --> 00:25:35,749
Speaker 1: I let the children go out without jumpers on and

505
00:25:35,869 --> 00:25:40,229
Speaker 1: let this hypothetical father allow that to happen, or do

506
00:25:40,469 --> 00:25:43,269
Speaker 1: I intervene and say this is going to lead to

507
00:25:43,309 --> 00:25:47,029
Speaker 1: misery and can we not just put the jumper on

508
00:25:47,069 --> 00:25:49,429
Speaker 1: before we leave the house. And that can set the

509
00:25:49,429 --> 00:25:51,389
Speaker 1: heart of a lot of these questions, because it's like,

510
00:25:52,189 --> 00:25:53,069
Speaker 1: do I just let them?

511
00:25:53,109 --> 00:25:54,229
Speaker 3: Do I just let them go?

512
00:25:54,309 --> 00:25:57,189
Speaker 2: I'm I'm team let them, because you know what'll happen.

513
00:25:57,269 --> 00:25:59,549
Speaker 2: They'll get to the park or they'll get outside and

514
00:25:59,589 --> 00:26:02,629
Speaker 2: they'll start change and they'll say I'm very cold, and

515
00:26:02,669 --> 00:26:05,589
Speaker 2: then probably you'll get a call saying.

516
00:26:05,429 --> 00:26:09,909
Speaker 3: Yes, can you please. But you know what, the other

517
00:26:09,949 --> 00:26:12,869
Speaker 3: thing too, which is really annoying, Sometimes it works out

518
00:26:12,869 --> 00:26:16,149
Speaker 3: for them, and that's even more irritating because you'll fret

519
00:26:16,189 --> 00:26:18,309
Speaker 3: about something like that about your child going out without

520
00:26:18,309 --> 00:26:21,989
Speaker 3: their jumper, and then they'll come back incident free, nothing's

521
00:26:22,029 --> 00:26:24,709
Speaker 3: been said, and so really the dads are just working smarter,

522
00:26:24,829 --> 00:26:28,189
Speaker 3: not harder, and worrying less about things. Things and getting

523
00:26:28,189 --> 00:26:29,829
Speaker 3: away with it. So maybe we need to take a

524
00:26:29,909 --> 00:26:30,629
Speaker 3: leap out of their.

525
00:26:30,549 --> 00:26:35,749
Speaker 2: Book good Night to the Bedtime Story. Lauren Ironmonger wrote

526
00:26:35,749 --> 00:26:38,069
Speaker 2: for The Sydney Morning Herald last weekend that the number

527
00:26:38,109 --> 00:26:40,709
Speaker 2: of parents reading aloud to their children is at an

528
00:26:40,749 --> 00:26:45,269
Speaker 2: all time low. This research comes from Harpercollin's UK, which

529
00:26:45,269 --> 00:26:48,469
Speaker 2: found that less than half of parents of kids under

530
00:26:48,509 --> 00:26:52,669
Speaker 2: thirteen said reading aloud to children was fun for me.

531
00:26:53,469 --> 00:26:55,789
Speaker 2: And can I just say on this, I think it's

532
00:26:55,829 --> 00:26:58,229
Speaker 2: a very different question saying do you read to your kids?

533
00:26:58,349 --> 00:27:00,469
Speaker 3: Do you think it's fun for me? Those two things

534
00:27:00,469 --> 00:27:01,429
Speaker 3: are not the same.

535
00:27:01,749 --> 00:27:05,349
Speaker 2: I think reading The Very Hungry Caterpillar for the fifteenth time,

536
00:27:05,349 --> 00:27:07,749
Speaker 2: I wouldn't describe it as fun. I'd describe it as something,

537
00:27:08,149 --> 00:27:11,589
Speaker 2: but fun would not be it. Australian data found that

538
00:27:11,669 --> 00:27:14,589
Speaker 2: many parents can't fit in daily reading with their kids,

539
00:27:14,909 --> 00:27:18,589
Speaker 2: and just quickly this article goes into why it's even important. First,

540
00:27:18,589 --> 00:27:21,789
Speaker 2: it's massive for literacy skills, but it also strengthens the

541
00:27:21,789 --> 00:27:24,229
Speaker 2: parent child bond. It sends a message to your child

542
00:27:24,229 --> 00:27:25,829
Speaker 2: that at the end of the day, they are the

543
00:27:25,829 --> 00:27:30,269
Speaker 2: most important thing. Amelia. Do you think culturally we started

544
00:27:30,269 --> 00:27:34,869
Speaker 2: to see reading as something that a child does at

545
00:27:35,109 --> 00:27:39,789
Speaker 2: preschool or school, and therefore it doesn't have to be

546
00:27:39,829 --> 00:27:41,709
Speaker 2: done at home. We've outsourced it a bit.

547
00:27:41,949 --> 00:27:44,669
Speaker 1: I think that's such a good question, and I think,

548
00:27:45,589 --> 00:27:49,629
Speaker 1: very sadly, the answer is pretty clearly yes. And it

549
00:27:49,709 --> 00:27:52,349
Speaker 1: dawned on me recently that I am very much part

550
00:27:52,389 --> 00:27:54,829
Speaker 1: of the problem here. I take my kids to swimming

551
00:27:54,909 --> 00:27:58,229
Speaker 1: practice on a Sunday and I sit there and I

552
00:27:58,309 --> 00:28:01,469
Speaker 1: doom scol on my phone and feel my anxiety spiral,

553
00:28:02,469 --> 00:28:05,909
Speaker 1: and instead I should be reading a book. So last

554
00:28:05,949 --> 00:28:08,869
Speaker 1: week I took along Stephen King's Misery, which I've never read.

555
00:28:09,469 --> 00:28:11,149
Speaker 1: I was like, this, Stephen King.

556
00:28:11,269 --> 00:28:15,189
Speaker 2: It's good author, He's actually writing something.

557
00:28:15,829 --> 00:28:19,189
Speaker 1: And then I realized I was role modeling for my children,

558
00:28:19,229 --> 00:28:21,709
Speaker 1: who I'm always sort of flinging books at and telling

559
00:28:21,749 --> 00:28:24,149
Speaker 1: them to read. That reading can be fun.

560
00:28:24,869 --> 00:28:25,549
Speaker 3: That's so true.

561
00:28:25,589 --> 00:28:28,709
Speaker 2: And did you was it a paper copy? Like a yeah, real.

562
00:28:28,669 --> 00:28:31,829
Speaker 1: Hard paperback with a really like spooky looking cover that

563
00:28:31,909 --> 00:28:34,349
Speaker 1: my kids are obsessed with. Because, by the way, physical

564
00:28:34,389 --> 00:28:37,269
Speaker 1: books are kind of intriguing. You remember that idea, like, yeah,

565
00:28:37,349 --> 00:28:39,269
Speaker 1: a cover of a book is meant to entice you

566
00:28:39,349 --> 00:28:41,669
Speaker 1: into it. And so when I was reading this book,

567
00:28:41,709 --> 00:28:44,389
Speaker 1: they're like, misery, what's that book about? And it was

568
00:28:44,469 --> 00:28:48,349
Speaker 1: just it occasioned a great conversation that said, I, this

569
00:28:48,389 --> 00:28:50,869
Speaker 1: is a work in progress for me too. I am

570
00:28:50,909 --> 00:28:53,229
Speaker 1: exhausted at the end of the day and sometimes it

571
00:28:53,309 --> 00:28:56,469
Speaker 1: is easier for me to throw on an audiobook on

572
00:28:56,509 --> 00:28:58,789
Speaker 1: the Bluetooth speaker and then I can go and stack

573
00:28:58,829 --> 00:29:02,269
Speaker 1: the dishwasher while they're falling asleep. And I haven't felt

574
00:29:02,269 --> 00:29:05,949
Speaker 1: too guilty about that, because literacy experts do say that

575
00:29:06,069 --> 00:29:08,189
Speaker 1: listening to an audiobook can build all sorts of really

576
00:29:08,189 --> 00:29:12,469
Speaker 1: important literacy skills, such as coprehension and vocabulary, and they're

577
00:29:12,509 --> 00:29:15,509
Speaker 1: often read by fantastic actors, and so they're getting this

578
00:29:16,149 --> 00:29:19,869
Speaker 1: really entertaining story read to them probably better. It's better

579
00:29:19,909 --> 00:29:22,389
Speaker 1: read by Emma Thompson than it is by me, for instance,

580
00:29:22,389 --> 00:29:25,389
Speaker 1: because we were reading Matilda on audiobook. So yeah, I

581
00:29:25,429 --> 00:29:28,309
Speaker 1: haven't feel too guilty about that. But that was until

582
00:29:28,349 --> 00:29:31,509
Speaker 1: I read this article and it made that really important

583
00:29:31,509 --> 00:29:34,749
Speaker 1: point that you referenced Jesse, that you're not just reading

584
00:29:34,789 --> 00:29:38,109
Speaker 1: to them to teach them how to read. You're reading

585
00:29:38,149 --> 00:29:41,589
Speaker 1: to them to show them that actually the dishwasher is

586
00:29:41,669 --> 00:29:46,189
Speaker 1: less important than us spending some time together and you know, okay,

587
00:29:46,189 --> 00:29:47,989
Speaker 1: I'm just adding that to another list of things I'm.

588
00:29:49,069 --> 00:29:51,549
Speaker 3: But that's the thing as well, is that usually now

589
00:29:51,589 --> 00:29:54,349
Speaker 3: there's in a lot of households, it's two working parents.

590
00:29:54,589 --> 00:29:56,869
Speaker 3: You're getting home later sometimes. I mean I get home

591
00:29:56,909 --> 00:30:00,309
Speaker 3: at six thirty seven o'clock from work to then try

592
00:30:00,349 --> 00:30:03,189
Speaker 3: an organize dinner, eat together, which we're also doing wrong

593
00:30:03,229 --> 00:30:05,909
Speaker 3: that we're never eating together now, and get your kids

594
00:30:05,909 --> 00:30:08,149
Speaker 3: to sleep. Something has to give, and so I think

595
00:30:08,189 --> 00:30:11,309
Speaker 3: we are probably guilty of just replacing that, as you say,

596
00:30:11,309 --> 00:30:14,189
Speaker 3: with I always use sleep stories, audiobooks. We've got like

597
00:30:14,189 --> 00:30:16,429
Speaker 3: the Yoto player with the little cards that my daughter

598
00:30:16,429 --> 00:30:19,069
Speaker 3: can listen to. And so yeah, we're just kind of

599
00:30:19,109 --> 00:30:21,989
Speaker 3: unwittingly putting our kids at a disadvantage by not sitting

600
00:30:22,029 --> 00:30:23,949
Speaker 3: down and doing reading with them in the interest of

601
00:30:24,029 --> 00:30:24,989
Speaker 3: cutting a bit of time.

602
00:30:25,349 --> 00:30:29,269
Speaker 2: I wonder if the story here is more about adults

603
00:30:29,309 --> 00:30:33,189
Speaker 2: aren't reading, because this research came out as well that

604
00:30:33,429 --> 00:30:38,029
Speaker 2: the book industry broadly adults aren't going and buying books.

605
00:30:38,109 --> 00:30:43,429
Speaker 2: That's absolutely tanked. And as you say, Amelia, if we're

606
00:30:43,509 --> 00:30:47,669
Speaker 2: not modeling it, and therefore it does seem like a

607
00:30:47,709 --> 00:30:51,229
Speaker 2: biggest step. I always find this with reading, that there's

608
00:30:51,269 --> 00:30:52,869
Speaker 2: a big block if you haven't done it for a while,

609
00:30:53,589 --> 00:30:56,269
Speaker 2: and you can feel like it's harder, and then it's

610
00:30:56,269 --> 00:30:59,509
Speaker 2: a muscle like reading is genuinely a muscle that gets weak.

611
00:31:00,309 --> 00:31:03,749
Speaker 2: And so I was reading about this because it's something

612
00:31:03,789 --> 00:31:05,709
Speaker 2: I really really worry about us during this event with

613
00:31:05,749 --> 00:31:08,309
Speaker 2: this academic whose name is Sophie g And she was

614
00:31:08,349 --> 00:31:11,949
Speaker 2: saying that not reading is worse for you than vaping.

615
00:31:12,949 --> 00:31:16,069
Speaker 2: That for the brain, like it is so important for

616
00:31:16,109 --> 00:31:21,669
Speaker 2: everything from memory to empathy to just all these cognitive

617
00:31:21,709 --> 00:31:25,469
Speaker 2: skills and the ability especially to read deeply. That's not

618
00:31:26,469 --> 00:31:29,469
Speaker 2: innate and we have not evolved to read. Every single

619
00:31:29,549 --> 00:31:32,709
Speaker 2: generation has to learn how to read. And in order

620
00:31:32,709 --> 00:31:35,549
Speaker 2: to learn how to read, it takes like years of

621
00:31:35,589 --> 00:31:38,829
Speaker 2: deep focus. Reading is one of you cannot do it

622
00:31:38,869 --> 00:31:39,869
Speaker 2: while you're doing anything else.

623
00:31:39,949 --> 00:31:42,709
Speaker 1: No, and some people never get that. Travis Kelsey recently

624
00:31:42,749 --> 00:31:44,549
Speaker 1: came out and that you can't really read.

625
00:31:44,869 --> 00:31:47,469
Speaker 2: So that's what I was reading about. Even the Naplan

626
00:31:47,669 --> 00:31:50,629
Speaker 2: results came out recently and they said that Ozzie kids

627
00:31:50,669 --> 00:31:52,909
Speaker 2: have sunk to an all time low in terms of

628
00:31:53,029 --> 00:31:57,429
Speaker 2: reading and writing skills, and low literacy is an issue

629
00:31:57,469 --> 00:32:00,949
Speaker 2: among a lot of adults and low literacy. I found

630
00:32:00,949 --> 00:32:03,229
Speaker 2: this interesting. It was saying that actually being able to go,

631
00:32:03,269 --> 00:32:04,709
Speaker 2: I know what the words on the page mean is

632
00:32:05,109 --> 00:32:07,709
Speaker 2: one thing, but the step that seems to be missing

633
00:32:07,789 --> 00:32:10,269
Speaker 2: is then understanding what those words mean and all. So

634
00:32:10,349 --> 00:32:12,669
Speaker 2: the ability do you see the article in The Atlantic

635
00:32:12,709 --> 00:32:14,869
Speaker 2: recently about college students who had never read a book.

636
00:32:15,509 --> 00:32:18,749
Speaker 2: It was so the ability to sit down and read

637
00:32:18,789 --> 00:32:21,629
Speaker 2: a book beginning to end is also a skill that

638
00:32:21,709 --> 00:32:24,269
Speaker 2: you can lose, and so deep reading is being able

639
00:32:24,269 --> 00:32:26,109
Speaker 2: to sit with something for a long time, follow it,

640
00:32:26,709 --> 00:32:29,229
Speaker 2: like go to work the next day, kind of remember

641
00:32:29,229 --> 00:32:31,829
Speaker 2: where you were. And even though it feels so hard,

642
00:32:31,869 --> 00:32:34,909
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, we've spoken about pikiitas and stuff

643
00:32:34,949 --> 00:32:36,309
Speaker 2: on this show, and you know how they always say,

644
00:32:36,349 --> 00:32:39,269
Speaker 2: like on the plate, they're not going to eat the brocoli,

645
00:32:39,269 --> 00:32:40,589
Speaker 2: but you've got to have broccoli on the plate.

646
00:32:40,749 --> 00:32:41,829
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you got.

647
00:32:42,509 --> 00:32:44,149
Speaker 2: He's got to be an option. It's like having the

648
00:32:44,189 --> 00:32:48,109
Speaker 2: books in the house. See before I speak about kindle, right,

649
00:32:48,149 --> 00:32:50,429
Speaker 2: because I've gone to that because I'm trying to at

650
00:32:50,509 --> 00:32:53,349
Speaker 2: night not have a lamp or anything on. But now

651
00:32:53,389 --> 00:32:55,149
Speaker 2: I think you should get a sleep divorce. Then you

652
00:32:55,149 --> 00:32:59,389
Speaker 2: don't have to worry about because lights on everywhere to

653
00:32:59,429 --> 00:33:01,229
Speaker 2: the age where Luna might be coloring in or something,

654
00:33:01,229 --> 00:33:03,989
Speaker 2: And I don't want her to see me constantly on

655
00:33:04,029 --> 00:33:05,829
Speaker 2: my phone, so I'll go and read, but it looks

656
00:33:05,829 --> 00:33:08,309
Speaker 2: like I'm on an iPad or a screen or a device,

657
00:33:08,509 --> 00:33:10,069
Speaker 2: and I think it's more important she sees me to

658
00:33:10,229 --> 00:33:10,709
Speaker 2: pag and.

659
00:33:10,669 --> 00:33:13,749
Speaker 1: It's also less interesting for her. She doesn't understand why

660
00:33:13,789 --> 00:33:17,549
Speaker 1: you're engaged with this Kendle as opposed to Stephen King's misery.

661
00:33:17,669 --> 00:33:19,669
Speaker 2: Yeah, she even goes into my room sometimes and when

662
00:33:19,669 --> 00:33:21,549
Speaker 2: I've got books next to my bed, like she loves

663
00:33:21,589 --> 00:33:24,109
Speaker 2: to flick through them and like look at the pages.

664
00:33:24,269 --> 00:33:27,269
Speaker 3: Yeah, my daughter often now pretend she's the librarian now

665
00:33:27,269 --> 00:33:29,709
Speaker 3: that they're doing that in school of and then I

666
00:33:29,829 --> 00:33:31,949
Speaker 3: have to go and borrow books from her. And it

667
00:33:32,109 --> 00:33:34,069
Speaker 3: is just such a yeah, like it's a tangible thing.

668
00:33:34,109 --> 00:33:36,149
Speaker 3: It's not the same as having it on a device.

669
00:33:36,349 --> 00:33:36,709
Speaker 3: This is it.

670
00:33:36,829 --> 00:33:39,629
Speaker 2: This is a humble brag. But Luna was going through

671
00:33:39,669 --> 00:33:44,109
Speaker 2: our bookcase in our study recently and got a book

672
00:33:44,149 --> 00:33:45,669
Speaker 2: down and it was one of my books, and she

673
00:33:45,709 --> 00:33:47,029
Speaker 2: went to the back and was a picture of me,

674
00:33:47,109 --> 00:33:54,069
Speaker 2: and she went Mummy to explain that is, and I

675
00:33:54,509 --> 00:33:56,869
Speaker 2: mum's an English teacher, so like this is a special

676
00:33:56,909 --> 00:33:59,349
Speaker 2: interest area. But like I grew up and there was

677
00:33:59,389 --> 00:34:01,869
Speaker 2: always a book in the and the way that you

678
00:34:01,909 --> 00:34:03,909
Speaker 2: would just go on and they're.

679
00:34:03,749 --> 00:34:06,069
Speaker 1: So intriguing when you're a kid as well.

680
00:34:05,869 --> 00:34:08,309
Speaker 2: You'd always find a naughty one and you'd go, I

681
00:34:08,309 --> 00:34:12,589
Speaker 2: will be reading that privately. Absolutely great. You're putting words together.

682
00:34:12,669 --> 00:34:16,669
Speaker 2: That's wonderful, or like names that I would see your covers.

683
00:34:16,749 --> 00:34:19,749
Speaker 1: I still remember when my parents love books and reading

684
00:34:20,029 --> 00:34:22,509
Speaker 1: and they have bookshelves all around the house, and there

685
00:34:22,549 --> 00:34:24,629
Speaker 1: was a Joan Diddian book called The White Album.

686
00:34:24,909 --> 00:34:26,869
Speaker 3: I just had a completely white cover.

687
00:34:26,749 --> 00:34:29,749
Speaker 1: And this blew my mind. How can you have a

688
00:34:29,789 --> 00:34:31,229
Speaker 1: cover that has nothing on?

689
00:34:31,269 --> 00:34:34,789
Speaker 2: It's a It's so true the physicality of books. And

690
00:34:34,789 --> 00:34:37,189
Speaker 2: apparently as well, they're finding that the print book is

691
00:34:37,229 --> 00:34:38,829
Speaker 2: a totally different experience to read it.

692
00:34:38,829 --> 00:34:41,829
Speaker 1: It's just the object of the print book is so special.

693
00:34:42,429 --> 00:34:45,309
Speaker 1: And in a world where we have so few objects

694
00:34:45,309 --> 00:34:47,869
Speaker 1: that are special, because even our photos are on our

695
00:34:47,909 --> 00:34:52,469
Speaker 1: phone and we don't have DVDs anymore or videos, I

696
00:34:52,509 --> 00:34:56,629
Speaker 1: think that's a portal into reading. Yes, is to give

697
00:34:56,749 --> 00:34:59,749
Speaker 1: kids the opportunity to be mystified by a book with

698
00:34:59,789 --> 00:35:00,709
Speaker 1: a white cover.

699
00:35:00,749 --> 00:35:03,269
Speaker 2: And the smell. The smell of a book, Yeah, I

700
00:35:03,309 --> 00:35:06,269
Speaker 2: love the smells. Producer Ruth was telling us that the

701
00:35:06,309 --> 00:35:08,349
Speaker 2: reason we love the smell of old books so much

702
00:35:08,509 --> 00:35:10,869
Speaker 2: is because they smell as they ink and the paper

703
00:35:10,909 --> 00:35:13,749
Speaker 2: and everything break down. It smells like vanilla, which is

704
00:35:13,789 --> 00:35:17,589
Speaker 2: such a homely warm like. I'm thinking, there are a

705
00:35:17,589 --> 00:35:20,589
Speaker 2: few things to me more comforting than that smell. And

706
00:35:20,629 --> 00:35:22,789
Speaker 2: you can get like fragrances or candles or whatever in

707
00:35:22,829 --> 00:35:25,069
Speaker 2: your house to make it smell like that, which I'm like,

708
00:35:25,189 --> 00:35:27,069
Speaker 2: I just want to fill my whole house that smell

709
00:35:27,109 --> 00:35:28,269
Speaker 2: of like an old, old book.

710
00:35:28,309 --> 00:35:30,189
Speaker 1: And I also want to know that Producer Ruth is

711
00:35:30,229 --> 00:35:32,469
Speaker 1: the best smelling person at Mum and Men. She knows

712
00:35:32,509 --> 00:35:33,389
Speaker 1: what she's talking about.

713
00:35:33,589 --> 00:35:35,949
Speaker 3: I wonder if it's also that we're a bit more

714
00:35:36,069 --> 00:35:38,869
Speaker 3: sensitive about what we're reading now and what we're reading

715
00:35:38,869 --> 00:35:42,269
Speaker 3: to our children now. The other week, my daughter brings

716
00:35:42,269 --> 00:35:44,909
Speaker 3: home a library book every week from pre K and

717
00:35:44,949 --> 00:35:46,709
Speaker 3: she loves it. It's like a big event to bring

718
00:35:46,749 --> 00:35:48,829
Speaker 3: it home in the bag, which is great. But this

719
00:35:48,909 --> 00:35:51,909
Speaker 3: week she brought home the Ugly Duckling, and I found

720
00:35:51,949 --> 00:35:54,829
Speaker 3: myself as I was reading it to her, feeling weird

721
00:35:54,829 --> 00:35:58,109
Speaker 3: about even using the word ugly, and I think that's

722
00:35:58,109 --> 00:35:59,949
Speaker 3: something that's coming up a lot now with books like

723
00:35:59,949 --> 00:36:02,349
Speaker 3: even Roll Dahl's books a couple of years ago were

724
00:36:02,389 --> 00:36:05,789
Speaker 3: rewritten to remove the words ugly and fat. And so

725
00:36:05,829 --> 00:36:07,869
Speaker 3: I think maybe we're not reading as many of the

726
00:36:07,869 --> 00:36:10,869
Speaker 3: stories that we loved as kids, worried that they'll be inappropriate,

727
00:36:10,909 --> 00:36:13,949
Speaker 3: and so we're not enjoying it. Therefore we're doing it true.

728
00:36:14,029 --> 00:36:16,989
Speaker 1: I have two examples of that from recently. We have

729
00:36:17,069 --> 00:36:20,909
Speaker 1: a copy of Role Does Revolting Rhymes, which I remember loving.

730
00:36:20,989 --> 00:36:24,749
Speaker 1: It's actually my copy, and I was reading it one

731
00:36:24,829 --> 00:36:27,709
Speaker 1: day to the kids and I just suddenly my eyes

732
00:36:27,829 --> 00:36:30,629
Speaker 1: lit upon the next word, and the next word was slut.

733
00:36:31,349 --> 00:36:36,069
Speaker 1: Oh that's a really hard word to explain meaning to kids,

734
00:36:36,189 --> 00:36:39,789
Speaker 1: I find. And then the second example was had a

735
00:36:39,829 --> 00:36:42,269
Speaker 1: really nice time reading the line the Witch and the

736
00:36:42,309 --> 00:36:45,229
Speaker 1: Wardrobe with one of my kids. But gosh, that's a

737
00:36:45,269 --> 00:36:48,549
Speaker 1: weird book, is it. There's a lot going on in there.

738
00:36:48,749 --> 00:36:52,829
Speaker 1: It's essentially a Christian allegory, which is fine. I don't

739
00:36:52,869 --> 00:36:56,629
Speaker 1: mean to say that's weird, but it does raise a

740
00:36:56,629 --> 00:37:00,349
Speaker 1: lot of questions about what the book is actually trying

741
00:37:00,389 --> 00:37:04,229
Speaker 1: to say and what the wardrobe is a metaphor for.

742
00:37:04,349 --> 00:37:07,509
Speaker 1: And you just find yourself going down some garden paths

743
00:37:07,549 --> 00:37:10,069
Speaker 1: that maybe you didn't expect that you'd be going down

744
00:37:10,349 --> 00:37:10,989
Speaker 1: at bedtime.

745
00:37:11,189 --> 00:37:13,589
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are some. My mum brings a lot of

746
00:37:13,629 --> 00:37:16,709
Speaker 2: classics over. Did you ever read There's a Hippopotamus on

747
00:37:16,709 --> 00:37:19,509
Speaker 2: my roof edding cake? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, so we're big.

748
00:37:19,709 --> 00:37:23,869
Speaker 2: We read that fifty Well, I'm sorry, but that there's

749
00:37:23,869 --> 00:37:27,109
Speaker 2: one that's like Mummy's on a diet, she has salad cheese.

750
00:37:27,469 --> 00:37:28,869
Speaker 2: I read that every day and I'm like, this is

751
00:37:29,589 --> 00:37:33,189
Speaker 2: this is a bit weir diet. But those ones, right,

752
00:37:33,829 --> 00:37:37,509
Speaker 2: are brilliant. They're nonsensical, they're wonderful. I watch Luna just

753
00:37:37,549 --> 00:37:38,669
Speaker 2: look at the roof and I'm like, just thinks of

754
00:37:38,669 --> 00:37:41,109
Speaker 2: the hippotamus in there, and I don't made it. But

755
00:37:41,189 --> 00:37:43,269
Speaker 2: Mum always says that a lot of the newer ones

756
00:37:43,469 --> 00:37:46,989
Speaker 2: are quite sanitized, and they're trying out there, trying to

757
00:37:47,069 --> 00:37:47,949
Speaker 2: hit you over the head.

758
00:37:48,669 --> 00:37:50,149
Speaker 1: Girls doing stem.

759
00:37:50,109 --> 00:37:53,429
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly right. And it's like school has done this

760
00:37:53,469 --> 00:37:58,069
Speaker 2: a little bit too. They made reading into hard work

761
00:37:58,469 --> 00:38:04,109
Speaker 2: in terms of reading for knowledge or like reading for

762
00:38:05,149 --> 00:38:09,749
Speaker 2: moral like lesson instead of just reading for pleasure, and like,

763
00:38:09,789 --> 00:38:12,389
Speaker 2: I say, a pleasure that Luna gets from hippopotamus and

764
00:38:12,429 --> 00:38:15,709
Speaker 2: I'm like, let's just let's learn our colors later, and

765
00:38:15,789 --> 00:38:18,389
Speaker 2: let's just go to hippopotamus eating cay on. The ugly

766
00:38:18,469 --> 00:38:20,709
Speaker 2: duckling thing. When I was a kid, I asked my

767
00:38:20,789 --> 00:38:22,429
Speaker 2: nan if I was pretty. She lived with us, and

768
00:38:22,469 --> 00:38:23,949
Speaker 2: I was like five or six, and I said, nanam

769
00:38:23,949 --> 00:38:25,749
Speaker 2: my pretty? And she said, you're an ugly duckling.

770
00:38:25,869 --> 00:38:27,469
Speaker 1: Oh.

771
00:38:27,509 --> 00:38:30,429
Speaker 2: She died before I grew up, And so I still wonder.

772
00:38:30,469 --> 00:38:32,709
Speaker 2: I'm like, did I ever turn to the one nan?

773
00:38:32,909 --> 00:38:38,749
Speaker 3: You're you're a Swan. It's time for our recommendations of

774
00:38:38,789 --> 00:38:40,509
Speaker 3: the week. So Jesse, do you want to go first?

775
00:38:40,829 --> 00:38:41,109
Speaker 1: Sure?

776
00:38:41,229 --> 00:38:45,069
Speaker 2: On the topic of books, I remembered, don't you find

777
00:38:45,109 --> 00:38:47,229
Speaker 2: that it's really hard to buy gifts for like grandparents

778
00:38:47,269 --> 00:38:50,549
Speaker 2: and like comes around and you're like, oh, it's my

779
00:38:50,709 --> 00:38:53,189
Speaker 2: mom And speaking of hopeless dads, it's their mom.

780
00:38:53,989 --> 00:38:56,149
Speaker 1: Whatever, give me a hand cream? Can you?

781
00:38:56,149 --> 00:38:57,869
Speaker 2: You can't know? And what am I like, I'm not

782
00:38:57,909 --> 00:39:00,869
Speaker 2: going to get her like a nice blouse. She's going

783
00:39:00,949 --> 00:39:01,949
Speaker 2: to be like, this is disgusting.

784
00:39:02,029 --> 00:39:04,989
Speaker 1: I always needs to get my Nana every Christmas a

785
00:39:05,109 --> 00:39:09,669
Speaker 1: jar of oil of olay and that smell still takes

786
00:39:09,669 --> 00:39:11,869
Speaker 1: me a bad looking of a nostalgic cell. But I

787
00:39:11,869 --> 00:39:12,549
Speaker 1: won't want that.

788
00:39:12,789 --> 00:39:15,069
Speaker 2: She won't want that. So what I got was I

789
00:39:15,109 --> 00:39:18,189
Speaker 2: went on Etsy and there are heaps of examples of this,

790
00:39:18,309 --> 00:39:22,429
Speaker 2: but I went on Etsy and found this company that

791
00:39:22,709 --> 00:39:26,989
Speaker 2: makes personalized children's books. So this one is about going

792
00:39:26,989 --> 00:39:29,589
Speaker 2: to Nana's house. And you can say, like, when I

793
00:39:29,629 --> 00:39:32,029
Speaker 2: go to Nana's house, there's a blah and like you

794
00:39:32,069 --> 00:39:35,149
Speaker 2: can put in all the little bet and they've even

795
00:39:35,189 --> 00:39:37,589
Speaker 2: got like put in three words to describe your Nana.

796
00:39:37,629 --> 00:39:42,229
Speaker 2: And I'm like crazy, weird, annoying, just a troll maya.

797
00:39:42,629 --> 00:39:44,989
Speaker 2: But it's all about a day at Nana's house. So

798
00:39:45,029 --> 00:39:48,109
Speaker 2: it's and I made one for me and I made

799
00:39:48,109 --> 00:39:51,909
Speaker 2: one for my mum. And they're just the cutest, most personalized.

800
00:39:51,949 --> 00:39:54,549
Speaker 2: It has their names, it has whatever they call their

801
00:39:54,549 --> 00:39:58,389
Speaker 2: grandmother on the front, and they're just so so sweet.

802
00:39:58,429 --> 00:40:00,349
Speaker 2: So this was on Etsy from Lucy and Co. We

803
00:40:00,389 --> 00:40:01,909
Speaker 2: have a link in our show notes, but there are

804
00:40:01,909 --> 00:40:04,549
Speaker 2: heaps and heaps online and they are just a lovely,

805
00:40:04,909 --> 00:40:05,989
Speaker 2: thoughtful little gift.

806
00:40:06,309 --> 00:40:08,989
Speaker 1: My recommendation is something that I have not used in

807
00:40:09,189 --> 00:40:11,469
Speaker 1: quite a few years, but which I still like to

808
00:40:11,589 --> 00:40:15,669
Speaker 1: gift to new parents. And it is a fabulous product

809
00:40:15,909 --> 00:40:18,269
Speaker 1: that there's a little bit of a story behind. So

810
00:40:18,429 --> 00:40:21,029
Speaker 1: I used to do a show on Mama Mia many

811
00:40:21,069 --> 00:40:24,149
Speaker 1: years ago with Mia called Temmy It's going to Be Okay.

812
00:40:24,909 --> 00:40:28,869
Speaker 1: It was a show which we conceived of and started

813
00:40:28,909 --> 00:40:32,469
Speaker 1: doing after Donald Trump was elected. And I think the

814
00:40:32,509 --> 00:40:34,909
Speaker 1: title kind of summarizes where I had space is that

815
00:40:36,189 --> 00:40:39,909
Speaker 1: it literally came to a screeching halt about two years

816
00:40:39,909 --> 00:40:43,069
Speaker 1: in when we realized that we could no longer tell

817
00:40:43,109 --> 00:40:44,469
Speaker 1: each other it was going to be okay.

818
00:40:44,789 --> 00:40:46,469
Speaker 2: So it's never come back.

819
00:40:46,509 --> 00:40:48,469
Speaker 3: Has it come back?

820
00:40:49,429 --> 00:40:53,029
Speaker 1: But it was a fun experience and we had a

821
00:40:53,189 --> 00:40:57,109
Speaker 1: small but devoted cadre of listeners and one of them

822
00:40:58,029 --> 00:41:02,069
Speaker 1: was a lovely lady who lived in Neutral Bay in Sydney,

823
00:41:02,509 --> 00:41:06,269
Speaker 1: and she sent me an invention of hers called the

824
00:41:06,509 --> 00:41:11,869
Speaker 1: baby Origami rap. Now this I've saved my life when

825
00:41:11,869 --> 00:41:14,869
Speaker 1: I had my first baby, because you know how the

826
00:41:14,909 --> 00:41:17,509
Speaker 1: world is divided into people who are good at oragami

827
00:41:17,549 --> 00:41:20,509
Speaker 1: and people who aren't. Yeah, I'm one of the people

828
00:41:20,549 --> 00:41:22,549
Speaker 1: who's not me or anything.

829
00:41:22,589 --> 00:41:26,029
Speaker 2: I think it takes like patience and Grace think.

830
00:41:25,909 --> 00:41:28,829
Speaker 1: That neither of those things exactly. So this is called

831
00:41:28,829 --> 00:41:32,109
Speaker 1: the Baby ore Agami Rap because if you've never mastered swaddling,

832
00:41:32,509 --> 00:41:35,989
Speaker 1: it makes it literally impossible not.

833
00:41:36,069 --> 00:41:38,029
Speaker 3: To correctly swaddle the baby.

834
00:41:38,229 --> 00:41:40,869
Speaker 1: So I think Nick Cannon could do with one of these,

835
00:41:41,709 --> 00:41:45,549
Speaker 1: and I think that Nelly could do with ye. And

836
00:41:45,789 --> 00:41:48,189
Speaker 1: I really got a lot of use out of it. Basically,

837
00:41:48,229 --> 00:41:51,069
Speaker 1: it's numbered. It's a sort of a step by step

838
00:41:51,229 --> 00:41:53,229
Speaker 1: numbered way to swaddle your baby.

839
00:41:53,349 --> 00:41:55,549
Speaker 2: And it's super tight, like it does everything you're.

840
00:41:55,429 --> 00:41:58,389
Speaker 1: Tight, and it's made of beautiful one hundred percent cotton.

841
00:41:58,989 --> 00:42:01,789
Speaker 1: It's really easy to wash, and I just love gifting

842
00:42:01,829 --> 00:42:04,949
Speaker 1: them to people because swaddling is just so hard and

843
00:42:05,069 --> 00:42:07,109
Speaker 1: so hard. I just never got it.

844
00:42:07,189 --> 00:42:08,109
Speaker 3: I never got it.

845
00:42:08,509 --> 00:42:11,269
Speaker 1: So it's called the Baby or a Army Rap, and

846
00:42:11,589 --> 00:42:16,229
Speaker 1: it is from an Australian company and a friend of

847
00:42:16,229 --> 00:42:18,909
Speaker 1: the pod. So thanks for saving my life.

848
00:42:19,029 --> 00:42:20,469
Speaker 2: How about you, Stacey? What's your reco?

849
00:42:20,629 --> 00:42:20,949
Speaker 1: Okay?

850
00:42:21,029 --> 00:42:24,709
Speaker 3: So I am rubbish at imaginative play. I'm I'm just

851
00:42:24,749 --> 00:42:27,429
Speaker 3: not good. But the one toy I bought for my daughter,

852
00:42:27,549 --> 00:42:29,349
Speaker 3: I bought it nearly three years ago now and we

853
00:42:29,869 --> 00:42:32,949
Speaker 3: still play with these every single week, usually multiple times

854
00:42:32,989 --> 00:42:36,749
Speaker 3: a week, and they're those colored magnetic tiles. So I

855
00:42:36,789 --> 00:42:39,629
Speaker 3: haven't seen these, okay, So they're just different colors. You

856
00:42:39,629 --> 00:42:42,829
Speaker 3: can get like aesthetically pleasing pastel ones. You can get

857
00:42:42,829 --> 00:42:45,109
Speaker 3: the bright primary colors, whatever you want. They come in

858
00:42:45,109 --> 00:42:47,149
Speaker 3: different packs. You make it like eighty pieces or one

859
00:42:47,229 --> 00:42:50,749
Speaker 3: hundred pieces, and they're just magnetic squares and triangles and

860
00:42:50,789 --> 00:42:53,229
Speaker 3: they all kind of you'll get a guide of different things.

861
00:42:53,269 --> 00:42:55,589
Speaker 3: You can build with them, or your kid can just

862
00:42:55,749 --> 00:42:57,509
Speaker 3: stack them up in a row like whatever.

863
00:42:57,629 --> 00:43:01,189
Speaker 2: Stage kind of like Lego, but it doesn't h ex sally.

864
00:43:01,469 --> 00:43:05,549
Speaker 1: They are flat easy to clean up because unlike Lego,

865
00:43:05,589 --> 00:43:06,149
Speaker 1: they're not like.

866
00:43:06,189 --> 00:43:09,789
Speaker 3: Little bits so it all sticks together. So they're very handy.

867
00:43:10,229 --> 00:43:12,789
Speaker 3: Them a lot to cafes or pubs or anything because

868
00:43:12,829 --> 00:43:15,029
Speaker 3: there's no mess, like if you're worried about them drawing

869
00:43:15,069 --> 00:43:17,389
Speaker 3: on a table at a cafe when you don't take

870
00:43:17,429 --> 00:43:20,029
Speaker 3: your kids to the point. Yes, I actually find I

871
00:43:20,029 --> 00:43:23,509
Speaker 3: get quite territorial, and I like move my creation away

872
00:43:23,509 --> 00:43:26,629
Speaker 3: from my daughter, like, don't mess with my color pattern

873
00:43:26,669 --> 00:43:28,469
Speaker 3: that I've made. But you can get like you can

874
00:43:28,509 --> 00:43:30,909
Speaker 3: get cheap versions of them at kmart. The ones I

875
00:43:30,909 --> 00:43:33,989
Speaker 3: got were on Amazon. I got them from Steam Studios

876
00:43:34,069 --> 00:43:36,029
Speaker 3: is one set, and then we got another set from

877
00:43:36,069 --> 00:43:38,789
Speaker 3: an Aussie startup called Kinetics with an X on the end,

878
00:43:39,509 --> 00:43:42,669
Speaker 3: and they're just so great. You can even create puzzles

879
00:43:42,669 --> 00:43:45,589
Speaker 3: for your kids, trace around the outside and then remove

880
00:43:45,629 --> 00:43:47,789
Speaker 3: the magnets, stick it up on the fridge and then

881
00:43:47,829 --> 00:43:49,949
Speaker 3: they have to fit in the shapes to the pattern

882
00:43:49,989 --> 00:43:53,469
Speaker 3: you've given them, and it takes some ages, really good distraction.

883
00:43:54,229 --> 00:43:57,589
Speaker 2: What age would you say you could start? So Luna's

884
00:43:57,669 --> 00:43:59,669
Speaker 2: just two? Yeah, is this something she could play with?

885
00:43:59,829 --> 00:44:04,269
Speaker 3: I bought them for her second birthday and she absolutely

886
00:44:04,429 --> 00:44:06,509
Speaker 3: loves them. Still they still do them every week.

887
00:44:06,549 --> 00:44:09,829
Speaker 1: I'm going to hijack the recommendation and say I wholeheartedly agree.

888
00:44:10,149 --> 00:44:12,949
Speaker 1: And recently I picked up the sort of like original

889
00:44:13,109 --> 00:44:16,949
Speaker 1: brand of the Magnetic Squares has now got a travel tin,

890
00:44:17,349 --> 00:44:20,549
Speaker 1: which is brilliant because they are sort of big, like

891
00:44:20,589 --> 00:44:23,429
Speaker 1: you wouldn't want to like pack them in a suitcase.

892
00:44:23,549 --> 00:44:26,149
Speaker 1: But now with this travel tin with the miniature ones,

893
00:44:26,149 --> 00:44:28,509
Speaker 1: they're so cute and you can now travel with them too.

894
00:44:28,789 --> 00:44:30,709
Speaker 2: I knew I was losing the plot a bit this

895
00:44:30,789 --> 00:44:34,789
Speaker 2: morning when I was thinking about my recommendation and Luna

896
00:44:34,829 --> 00:44:37,389
Speaker 2: this morning heard the garbage truck man, and we went

897
00:44:37,389 --> 00:44:40,069
Speaker 2: outside and saw that they all waved at her, and

898
00:44:40,109 --> 00:44:44,549
Speaker 2: I was like, I should recommend garbage truck and came aside,

899
00:44:44,669 --> 00:44:47,389
Speaker 2: Luna's not well, like she's had a running nose and stuff.

900
00:44:47,829 --> 00:44:52,829
Speaker 2: And I found on YouTube garbage truck man. Oh, and

901
00:44:52,869 --> 00:44:56,069
Speaker 2: it's just people emptying bins right, and I had it

902
00:44:56,149 --> 00:44:59,429
Speaker 2: up on YouTube and it was so meditative.

903
00:45:00,069 --> 00:45:00,869
Speaker 3: I was for me.

904
00:45:00,989 --> 00:45:02,869
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm not bored. I'm actually really it

905
00:45:02,909 --> 00:45:05,949
Speaker 2: was so satisfying, and I was like, what a great

906
00:45:06,069 --> 00:45:08,709
Speaker 2: job to just go and clean stuff up every day,

907
00:45:08,829 --> 00:45:11,189
Speaker 2: engage with the community. It was like, this is great.

908
00:45:11,189 --> 00:45:13,789
Speaker 2: We should just be watching and truck chip.

909
00:45:13,949 --> 00:45:16,949
Speaker 1: Kids are instinctively drawn to like some of the best

910
00:45:16,949 --> 00:45:19,829
Speaker 1: people in our community, people who pick up the rubbish,

911
00:45:20,109 --> 00:45:25,549
Speaker 1: the postman, the postman, firefighters, paleontologists. Don't know what's up.

912
00:45:25,589 --> 00:45:28,669
Speaker 2: They know where it's at. They know the actual hierarchy

913
00:45:28,909 --> 00:45:29,589
Speaker 2: of society.

914
00:45:29,629 --> 00:45:32,309
Speaker 3: I explayed to my daughter that those are jobs like

915
00:45:32,469 --> 00:45:34,629
Speaker 3: about a yoga because I think I realized because my

916
00:45:34,709 --> 00:45:36,629
Speaker 3: husband and I both writers, that she just thinks like

917
00:45:36,789 --> 00:45:39,749
Speaker 3: work is keyboard and that's a job you could go.

918
00:45:39,869 --> 00:45:43,869
Speaker 3: You don't have to be like us you can do that.

919
00:45:43,869 --> 00:45:46,429
Speaker 2: That is all we have time for on parenting out

920
00:45:46,469 --> 00:45:50,029
Speaker 2: loud today. And you know what my call parents? Where

921
00:45:50,029 --> 00:45:51,349
Speaker 2: can I go on a bit of parentally?

922
00:45:52,229 --> 00:45:53,309
Speaker 1: Are we going on a baby moon?

923
00:45:53,469 --> 00:45:55,909
Speaker 2: Well, we should go on a baby one.

924
00:45:55,829 --> 00:45:57,229
Speaker 3: Of these post natal retreats.

925
00:45:57,429 --> 00:45:58,069
Speaker 2: That's what we're doing.

926
00:45:58,109 --> 00:46:00,749
Speaker 3: We're going on a post post natal I hope that's okay.

927
00:46:00,869 --> 00:46:03,389
Speaker 2: Do you mean we're all post natal? We have producer

928
00:46:03,469 --> 00:46:06,069
Speaker 2: Ruth has grown up kids, she's postnatal. She needs a

929
00:46:06,109 --> 00:46:08,189
Speaker 2: post natal retreat. We all do. So we're going to

930
00:46:08,269 --> 00:46:09,629
Speaker 2: go off there. And it's been.

931
00:46:09,829 --> 00:46:13,629
Speaker 1: So the book centered, candle and just relaxed.

932
00:46:13,989 --> 00:46:15,989
Speaker 2: It has been so fun working with both of you,

933
00:46:16,109 --> 00:46:20,549
Speaker 2: Amelia and Stacy and having all of our listeners join us,

934
00:46:21,229 --> 00:46:22,909
Speaker 2: and we're keeping it open.

935
00:46:23,149 --> 00:46:25,669
Speaker 1: Well, maybe maybe the three of us can just get

936
00:46:25,709 --> 00:46:29,189
Speaker 1: together with some magnetic tie or create some things and

937
00:46:29,709 --> 00:46:32,069
Speaker 1: watch some trucks.

938
00:46:32,749 --> 00:46:34,109
Speaker 3: That's great, Let's go now.

939
00:46:36,069 --> 00:46:40,749
Speaker 2: Until next time. Bye,