WEBVTT - My Daughter-In-Law Won’t Even Join The Group Chat 0:00:10.287 --> 0:00:14.927 You're listening to Amma mea podcast. Mamma Mere acknowledges the 0:00:14.927 --> 0:00:17.687 traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is 0:00:17.727 --> 0:00:24.287 recorded on. Families are supposed to be happy. That's the 0:00:24.407 --> 0:00:27.887 dream we were all sold. Even if the one we 0:00:28.007 --> 0:00:31.047 came from was not. We all want to believe the 0:00:31.087 --> 0:00:35.327 one that we build certainly will be. No. One cradles 0:00:35.327 --> 0:00:38.567 a baby bump, thinking one day this kid won't call 0:00:38.607 --> 0:00:43.007 me back. No skipping, hopscotching child looks up at their 0:00:43.087 --> 0:00:46.047 marm and thinks, one day, sure, judge me so harshly, 0:00:46.287 --> 0:00:49.967 I'll have to turn away. No parent packs the school 0:00:50.047 --> 0:00:54.607 lunch into the oversized backpack, imagining one day the person 0:00:54.647 --> 0:00:58.927 this little one loves more than me will come between us. No. 0:00:59.727 --> 0:01:03.887 Families are supposed to be happy. But we're all old 0:01:04.007 --> 0:01:07.527 enough and wise enough to know families are so much 0:01:07.687 --> 0:01:11.607 more than that. They are what sustains us and what 0:01:11.687 --> 0:01:14.927 screws us up. They are the evolving answer to the 0:01:15.007 --> 0:01:18.247 question what can I live with? What can I forgive? 0:01:18.847 --> 0:01:23.367 What can I raise? What can I celebrate? And all 0:01:23.447 --> 0:01:26.287 the silence that can open up in the gaps cracked 0:01:26.327 --> 0:01:30.127 open by a fractured family can be the most painful 0:01:30.167 --> 0:01:33.487 thing of all, an empty chair and a phone that 0:01:33.567 --> 0:01:38.607 doesn't beep, the quiet holidays, the pain of pushing away, 0:01:38.687 --> 0:01:42.087 the constant what ifs that should have said. The y 0:01:42.287 --> 0:01:49.007 means the question what's worth this? Yes, families are supposed 0:01:49.007 --> 0:01:55.247 to be happy, but they are so much more than that. Hello. Hello, 0:01:55.727 --> 0:02:00.727 I am Holly Wainwright, and I am mid midlife, mid family, 0:02:01.207 --> 0:02:04.967 mid figuring it all out this season of mid We 0:02:05.047 --> 0:02:08.247 are answering your dilemmas, the things that are keeping you 0:02:08.407 --> 0:02:11.407 up at night, you know, besides the hormones, because we 0:02:11.527 --> 0:02:13.607 have hit the messy middle and there is a lot 0:02:13.687 --> 0:02:17.607 to unpack here today. All your dilemmas were answering are 0:02:17.647 --> 0:02:21.367 about family estrangement, the term for when the happy family 0:02:21.447 --> 0:02:25.927 myth falls apart and turns to silence or recrimination or 0:02:26.007 --> 0:02:29.687 drama or worry. We are talking about a mother who's 0:02:29.687 --> 0:02:31.447 afraid that her new daughter in law will take a 0:02:31.527 --> 0:02:34.487 boy away, a daughter struggling to make peace with a 0:02:34.567 --> 0:02:37.847 vinegary mother, a mother on the brink of losing a 0:02:37.967 --> 0:02:41.327 daughter over love. And because I am all care but 0:02:41.407 --> 0:02:44.607 no expertise in this department, I have called in someone 0:02:44.647 --> 0:02:49.407 who knows some stuff, Jackie Manning. Jackie is known as 0:02:49.447 --> 0:02:53.167 the Friendly Psychologist and she has twenty five years of 0:02:53.207 --> 0:02:56.247 experience and a clinical practice in Sydney. You might have 0:02:56.287 --> 0:02:59.167 seen her on TV or on YouTube or on radio 0:02:59.287 --> 0:03:02.687 with my old mate Andrew Daddo. Jackie came in to 0:03:02.767 --> 0:03:06.647 help me with your dilemmas. But please remember, as always 0:03:06.927 --> 0:03:09.927 that this is general advice only, and if you're struggling 0:03:09.967 --> 0:03:12.607 in any way, make sure to see a health professional 0:03:12.607 --> 0:03:15.327 who can advise you specifically. There are going to be 0:03:15.327 --> 0:03:16.967 some links in our show notes to point you in 0:03:17.007 --> 0:03:21.327 the right direction, But in the meantime, here's Jackie and 0:03:21.407 --> 0:03:27.287 here are your dilemmas about families. Jackie, thank you so 0:03:27.367 --> 0:03:30.167 much for joining us today to help me answer some 0:03:30.247 --> 0:03:31.967 of our mid listeners questions. 0:03:31.807 --> 0:03:33.127 It's lovely to be with you, holl. 0:03:33.447 --> 0:03:36.647 It's really interesting because we get a lot of questions 0:03:36.647 --> 0:03:40.647 about families, and it's people can feel this big sense 0:03:40.687 --> 0:03:44.287 of failure if their family relationships aren't like the ones 0:03:44.287 --> 0:03:47.607 we see all around us in movies and you know, 0:03:47.767 --> 0:03:50.807 happy families and on social media on Mother's Day and 0:03:50.847 --> 0:03:53.887 all that, it can feel like such a failure. If 0:03:53.927 --> 0:03:55.287 your family doesn't seem like. 0:03:55.247 --> 0:03:58.247 That, it can and it can actually trigger fear in 0:03:58.367 --> 0:04:01.687 people too, And the reason for that is our bodies 0:04:01.727 --> 0:04:06.927 are very ancient in their makeup, and our safety has 0:04:07.007 --> 0:04:10.127 in most of the history of humanity depended on being 0:04:10.167 --> 0:04:13.647 part of a tribe. Yeah, right, and yeah, and. 0:04:13.607 --> 0:04:15.687 So the fear of being cast out and alone is 0:04:15.687 --> 0:04:17.247 a very primal one. 0:04:17.287 --> 0:04:20.447 Very primal and very real. So our brains and our 0:04:20.487 --> 0:04:23.847 neurochemistry don't know that. We can go to woolies and 0:04:23.927 --> 0:04:26.567 get some food, or you live in a house and 0:04:26.647 --> 0:04:30.887 not be attacked, but our bodies can react to separation 0:04:31.047 --> 0:04:35.447 from tribes with the same fear as if we're under 0:04:35.527 --> 0:04:36.447 thread of life. 0:04:36.927 --> 0:04:39.607 That makes a lot of sense, I put it to 0:04:39.647 --> 0:04:40.287 me like that. 0:04:40.367 --> 0:04:43.607 And humans, I think are particularly vulnerable in this way 0:04:43.727 --> 0:04:46.847 because you see some other species like I always think 0:04:46.887 --> 0:04:49.807 of I saw a giraffe being born once on the 0:04:49.847 --> 0:04:53.447 news or something, and basically the baby giraffe drops out 0:04:53.687 --> 0:04:57.407 and then can toddle off within half an hour or something. 0:04:57.487 --> 0:04:59.567 Now it has to walk on those spindly legs. 0:04:59.647 --> 0:05:03.367 Yes, probably still quite vulnerable. But as humans, we can't 0:05:03.367 --> 0:05:06.687 care for ourselves, so we're incredibly dependent on our caregivers, 0:05:07.327 --> 0:05:11.207 and if those relationships are probably then that can cause 0:05:11.407 --> 0:05:12.807 issues in families. 0:05:12.967 --> 0:05:15.887 All right, Well, let's get to the questions from our listeners. 0:05:16.087 --> 0:05:20.247 So the first one is my son has a partner 0:05:20.327 --> 0:05:23.567 of four years. They live together, and they're planning to 0:05:23.647 --> 0:05:27.327 start a family. She doesn't like me. It's hard to 0:05:27.367 --> 0:05:30.527 write those words, but to be honest, it's just true. 0:05:30.607 --> 0:05:33.247 At first, when my son would bring out of family occasions, 0:05:33.527 --> 0:05:35.927 she would make a polite effort to make small talk 0:05:35.967 --> 0:05:38.687 and share little stories from their lives. But now she 0:05:38.807 --> 0:05:42.007 might only come to one in three family gatherings. Often 0:05:42.047 --> 0:05:44.367 makes an excuse through my son about being busy or 0:05:44.407 --> 0:05:47.287 having another family thing on. But I know she just 0:05:47.367 --> 0:05:50.367 doesn't like me. I know we're quite different people. I 0:05:50.407 --> 0:05:54.007 can be a bit loud and overshary, as my kids 0:05:54.207 --> 0:05:56.847 tell me all the time, and she is definitely more 0:05:56.927 --> 0:06:00.367 quiet and reserved. But I always dreamed that when our 0:06:00.447 --> 0:06:03.607 kids found partners, our family would just get bigger and 0:06:03.607 --> 0:06:06.207 that we'd all be close, and it's clear that's not 0:06:06.287 --> 0:06:10.087 what's going to happen here. Recently, I've made new family 0:06:10.127 --> 0:06:13.167 group chat and invited her so she can feel included, 0:06:13.527 --> 0:06:16.767 but she hasn't even accepted that invite. Whenever I mention 0:06:16.887 --> 0:06:19.047 it to my son, he just shuts down and changes 0:06:19.087 --> 0:06:21.727 the subject or tells me I'm imagining it and she's 0:06:21.887 --> 0:06:24.847 just busy, but I know it's me. I lie awake 0:06:24.967 --> 0:06:27.927 worrying sometimes that if they have a baby, which my 0:06:27.967 --> 0:06:30.407 son has been talking about, I will not be allowed 0:06:30.447 --> 0:06:33.087 to be part of my grandchild's life, or and that 0:06:33.167 --> 0:06:36.087 my son will just get further and further away from me. 0:06:36.647 --> 0:06:40.687 What do I do? That's you know what when we 0:06:40.767 --> 0:06:45.007 asked for dilemmas, a lot of women of the sort 0:06:45.007 --> 0:06:48.927 of age that a lot of our listeners are had 0:06:49.007 --> 0:06:53.127 problems with their children's partners and they were really worried 0:06:53.127 --> 0:06:55.487 that they were going to fracture those relationships. It can 0:06:55.527 --> 0:06:56.807 be quite fraught. 0:06:57.087 --> 0:06:59.167 It can be very hard. And you know what I'm 0:06:59.167 --> 0:07:02.527 hearing from this listener is that she's had a dream 0:07:02.767 --> 0:07:05.607 and she's had aid. 0:07:04.727 --> 0:07:08.527 They were all going to be this big, happy, rowdy bunch. 0:07:08.287 --> 0:07:12.127 Around the table and probably another daughter figure for her, 0:07:12.647 --> 0:07:15.847 and that dream she's she's experiencing some grief in that 0:07:15.847 --> 0:07:19.487 that dream is not being realized. If she was with me, 0:07:19.567 --> 0:07:23.287 I'd be questioning the assumption that she has that this 0:07:23.487 --> 0:07:26.287 partner doesn't like her, because. 0:07:26.007 --> 0:07:28.767 She's very in the way that she expresses it here. 0:07:28.887 --> 0:07:30.247 She's very clear about it. 0:07:30.287 --> 0:07:33.647 She's quite definitely and she and it's and you know, 0:07:34.127 --> 0:07:37.487 she may not be her cup of tea. They may 0:07:37.647 --> 0:07:41.727 just be quite different. But also I'd be interested in 0:07:41.807 --> 0:07:46.287 knowing about the partner's comfort level with family gatherings in general, 0:07:46.487 --> 0:07:48.767 because she may be an only child, she may have 0:07:48.807 --> 0:07:52.087 come from a very quiet family. Family may be traumatic 0:07:52.167 --> 0:07:54.447 for her. So it may not be the mum in 0:07:54.527 --> 0:07:58.727 Laura as such. It may be that the experience of 0:07:58.727 --> 0:08:02.887 being in that family environment is just overwhelming, and she's 0:08:03.527 --> 0:08:05.407 she caught a shy and reserved. 0:08:04.967 --> 0:08:07.887 In Yes, so our listener says that she is quite 0:08:08.167 --> 0:08:12.367 overshary and a loud. Yeah, that's kind of negative words to 0:08:12.447 --> 0:08:13.527 use about herself, but it. 0:08:13.527 --> 0:08:15.247 Is probably. 0:08:16.607 --> 0:08:20.007 And that the daughter in law is more quiet and reserved. 0:08:20.407 --> 0:08:22.207 Yeah, and I'd be wondering if she's a bit anxious 0:08:22.247 --> 0:08:26.007 as well. And it is lovely. I think over sharing. 0:08:26.047 --> 0:08:28.487 I think sharing brings connection. So I think that and 0:08:28.527 --> 0:08:33.247 that's that Mum's love language, or that's how she reacts 0:08:33.247 --> 0:08:36.367 and connects with people. And even her own children are like, 0:08:36.407 --> 0:08:38.487 oh Mom, just to just stop it. You know, it's 0:08:38.527 --> 0:08:41.847 a little bit too much. So I think that this 0:08:42.247 --> 0:08:46.007 woman is also projecting in terms of the future and 0:08:46.047 --> 0:08:49.447 when they have children. And I understand she's nervous about 0:08:49.487 --> 0:08:52.887 that about if there be some separation and distance, But 0:08:52.927 --> 0:08:55.727 I'd try and keep that in perspective and be like, 0:08:55.767 --> 0:08:58.807 she's worrying about something that hasn't happened yet. Even if 0:08:58.807 --> 0:09:01.127 they have a child, she's worrying about something that hasn't 0:09:01.127 --> 0:09:04.647 happened yet. And she can play a really important role 0:09:04.687 --> 0:09:07.727 in her son's life still, you know, turn up with food, 0:09:07.807 --> 0:09:10.727 all those things. When people have newborn's life gets turned 0:09:10.767 --> 0:09:14.047 upside down. So she could play perhaps a practical role 0:09:14.127 --> 0:09:16.647 or a practical way she can show her love might 0:09:16.687 --> 0:09:19.367 even land with this daughter in law in a different way. 0:09:19.687 --> 0:09:23.207 That's so interesting, Jackie, that what I'm hearing you say 0:09:23.487 --> 0:09:27.087 is that our listeners sort of made this decision. She 0:09:27.127 --> 0:09:29.527 doesn't like me, she doesn't like coming to family gatherings. 0:09:29.567 --> 0:09:31.927 She's going to take my son further away from me. 0:09:32.967 --> 0:09:36.487 And what you're sort of saying is maybe you're not 0:09:36.527 --> 0:09:40.207 connecting on them, like you too haven't connected yet because 0:09:41.047 --> 0:09:43.927 you're not speaking the same language of family. Almost to 0:09:43.967 --> 0:09:48.007 our listeners, she's like family is big gatherings and we're 0:09:48.007 --> 0:09:50.087 all in each other's lives and we've got a group 0:09:50.167 --> 0:09:52.807 chat going and all those things. And maybe it's not 0:09:52.847 --> 0:09:55.007 that the daughter in law doesn't like her, but she's 0:09:55.127 --> 0:09:59.167 just got a very different perspective. Yeah, should our listener 0:09:59.207 --> 0:10:01.687 try a different way to connect with her, do you think? Look? 0:10:01.727 --> 0:10:04.287 I think yes and no. I think that you know, 0:10:04.407 --> 0:10:07.127 look at the connection and why is a connection with 0:10:07.207 --> 0:10:10.487 her particularly important if if she's she doesn't need to 0:10:10.527 --> 0:10:12.087 have a friendship with her as such? 0:10:12.167 --> 0:10:13.567 I mean, I think we put a lot of pressure 0:10:13.567 --> 0:10:17.207 on that relationship, that mother in law daughter and law relationship. 0:10:16.727 --> 0:10:18.567 But it doesn't have to be that way. Like, Yeah, 0:10:18.567 --> 0:10:21.487 some mom in laws and daughter in laws probably like 0:10:21.527 --> 0:10:23.807 to hang out occasionally and things, or maybe some have 0:10:24.967 --> 0:10:27.647 their own sort of conversations and friendship, but I think 0:10:27.647 --> 0:10:30.527 that's more unusual. I think it's more about keeping the 0:10:30.607 --> 0:10:33.807 relationship open with her son and always being kind, you know, 0:10:34.167 --> 0:10:37.447 trying to be understanding that everyone's different. My teenage kids 0:10:37.447 --> 0:10:39.487 are very different to me, and this might be relevant 0:10:39.527 --> 0:10:43.447 to this partner. They have a much smaller social battery 0:10:43.487 --> 0:10:45.127 than me. Mum. That's what they tell me all the time. 0:10:45.247 --> 0:10:48.847 That's I love being around people. I love going out, 0:10:48.887 --> 0:10:51.447 I love you know, socializing and things like that, and 0:10:51.487 --> 0:10:53.327 they like it to a degree, but they have a 0:10:53.407 --> 0:10:56.607 much lower threshold than me. And I've just had to 0:10:56.687 --> 0:10:57.487 accept that. 0:10:57.727 --> 0:11:00.327 So my son's the same. And the thing is is 0:11:00.367 --> 0:11:03.047 that now kids have that language too, don't they. So 0:11:03.167 --> 0:11:05.647 my kid, who's a teenager too, he'll say to me, 0:11:06.127 --> 0:11:08.007 I'm my social battery's dreaded. 0:11:08.287 --> 0:11:12.087 That's exactly what they do. And it's like, okay, you know, occasionally, 0:11:12.127 --> 0:11:14.247 once a year or something, my social batteries drained, do 0:11:14.407 --> 0:11:16.527 or I just need to just stay in. And that 0:11:16.567 --> 0:11:18.607 could be the case here. It's not so much that 0:11:18.727 --> 0:11:21.327 this woman doesn't like the mum in law. I think 0:11:21.327 --> 0:11:24.087 that's a decision that's I don't think it's accurate. You know, 0:11:24.447 --> 0:11:27.487 it's unless they've had a fight or conflict. 0:11:27.607 --> 0:11:31.087 It doesn't sound like it a little bit more. She's 0:11:31.127 --> 0:11:32.727 finding the daughter in law a bit avoidant. 0:11:32.727 --> 0:11:34.727 Maybe yeah, And she might be, and she might It 0:11:34.727 --> 0:11:36.687 depends what she does for work as well, like because 0:11:36.727 --> 0:11:39.247 some people have very people facing jobs. If she's a 0:11:39.247 --> 0:11:41.887 teacher or something like that, she's in front of people 0:11:42.247 --> 0:11:45.087 all day every day and just might not want to 0:11:45.087 --> 0:11:48.127 be on a WhatsApp group because you know you're a parent. 0:11:51.647 --> 0:11:53.647 Groups might have half of them are mute. You know, 0:11:53.647 --> 0:11:56.087 it's like they It may just be that she doesn't 0:11:56.087 --> 0:11:59.807 want that for herself. It's not personal to the listener. 0:11:59.887 --> 0:12:02.927 Perhaps I think that's in the realm of possibilities anyway, So. 0:12:03.767 --> 0:12:06.207 This is so smart because basically what you're saying is 0:12:06.207 --> 0:12:08.487 our listener. I don't want to paraphrase you, but it's 0:12:08.487 --> 0:12:10.207 sort of saying, this is all about me, And what 0:12:10.207 --> 0:12:11.767 you're sort of saying is it might not be all 0:12:11.807 --> 0:12:12.247 about you. 0:12:12.287 --> 0:12:12.847 Absolutely. 0:12:13.447 --> 0:12:15.767 What's some practical advice for her? Because she says she's 0:12:15.847 --> 0:12:19.687 lying awake at night worrying about this and worrying about 0:12:19.767 --> 0:12:21.407 that they're going to have a baby and she's not 0:12:21.407 --> 0:12:24.007 going to see them and all this catastrophizing that she's doing. 0:12:24.367 --> 0:12:26.127 Do you have any practical advice for. 0:12:26.287 --> 0:12:29.007 I do, especially for the people long awake at night 0:12:29.047 --> 0:12:32.367 worrying about things. I often encourage my clients to do something. 0:12:32.407 --> 0:12:34.287 It's a bit of an indelicate word, but I say 0:12:34.327 --> 0:12:38.007 do a brain vomit, which is writing out your thoughts 0:12:38.287 --> 0:12:39.647 in the middle of the night, in the middle of 0:12:39.687 --> 0:12:42.007 the nights off and when things pop up, and there's space, 0:12:42.047 --> 0:12:44.967 and there's quiet and a brain vomit is not a journal. 0:12:45.007 --> 0:12:47.447 People get anxious about the idea of making a journal. 0:12:47.727 --> 0:12:51.967 It's literally just pouring out whatever's in your brain out 0:12:52.007 --> 0:12:54.127 onto a piece of paper or into your notes appy 0:12:54.127 --> 0:12:57.327 if your phone's on, do not disturb and whatever, so 0:12:57.367 --> 0:13:00.407 that you're not interrupted by your phone. And the purpose 0:13:00.447 --> 0:13:03.807 of that is our brains. We don't run our brains. 0:13:03.887 --> 0:13:06.047 We run a portion of them, and we can support them. 0:13:06.607 --> 0:13:08.727 So our unconscious mind. If you have a thought and 0:13:08.767 --> 0:13:12.127 it's got nagy around it, your brain will circulate those 0:13:12.127 --> 0:13:14.647 thoughts and ruminate those thoughts around and around. 0:13:14.687 --> 0:13:18.407 Familiar with this. This is a midlife thing that gets 0:13:18.447 --> 0:13:19.687 worse too sometimes it. 0:13:19.687 --> 0:13:22.447 Can, especially with hormones going crazy. So I don't know 0:13:22.447 --> 0:13:24.367 why I picture this, but I picture a little sort 0:13:24.407 --> 0:13:26.727 of dude in her unconscious in a Bob the Builder 0:13:26.767 --> 0:13:29.567 had or something, and he detects a thought and his 0:13:29.687 --> 0:13:32.207 job is to just keep us dinging that bell so 0:13:32.247 --> 0:13:35.007 that that thought just goes around and round around. When 0:13:35.007 --> 0:13:37.807 you vomit it out on a page, it puts Bob 0:13:37.847 --> 0:13:40.087 the Builder to sleep, And so you can calm down 0:13:40.207 --> 0:13:42.087 and you don't look at that. It doesn't have to 0:13:42.087 --> 0:13:45.167 make sense. It can be swear words, it can be 0:13:45.287 --> 0:13:49.567 whatever it is that's antagonizing you in that moment. Get 0:13:49.567 --> 0:13:51.767 it out of your system. It's what i'd say, she's 0:13:51.847 --> 0:13:55.767 tried to make approaches to her son. I probably, you know, 0:13:55.927 --> 0:13:58.807 encourage that she's already done that. So I don't know if. 0:13:58.727 --> 0:14:02.887 That's she says he shuts down and says, you're imagining it, 0:14:02.367 --> 0:14:04.007 and that she's just busy. 0:14:04.567 --> 0:14:06.367 Yeah, and that could be true if we take that 0:14:06.447 --> 0:14:08.487 on face value again, like what does she do for 0:14:08.527 --> 0:14:11.007 her career? No, you know, she might just be really busy. 0:14:11.047 --> 0:14:13.647 She might have like a limited pocket of time and 0:14:13.687 --> 0:14:15.647 wants to spend that with her friends or her family, 0:14:16.327 --> 0:14:20.167 and doesn't enjoy coming to every single family event. Depends 0:14:20.207 --> 0:14:23.127 how many family events they have to comes to one 0:14:23.167 --> 0:14:24.967 in three, but do they have weekly dinners? And some 0:14:25.407 --> 0:14:30.527 families are really enthusiastic, and really I've got one client 0:14:31.167 --> 0:14:35.607 whose partner is super enthusiastic and has so many gatherings. 0:14:35.367 --> 0:14:38.447 It's a lot, and she doesn't necessarily like to go 0:14:38.487 --> 0:14:42.127 to every single thing either. But it's not personal, it's 0:14:42.247 --> 0:14:47.087 she's just exhausted. So it could be that I would 0:14:47.127 --> 0:14:50.007 try and just accept things as they are, except that 0:14:50.047 --> 0:14:52.567 this woman is different and that her dream of having 0:14:52.607 --> 0:14:55.047 a daughter in law which she could go shopping with 0:14:55.207 --> 0:14:58.487 or catch up for coffee with possibly doesn't sound like 0:14:58.527 --> 0:15:01.087 it's going to happen right now, But you never know 0:15:01.127 --> 0:15:03.967 what might happen when they have children. She might become 0:15:04.007 --> 0:15:05.807 more of a figure if she lives close to them. 0:15:05.847 --> 0:15:08.327 That's really handy. New parents need support. 0:15:08.407 --> 0:15:11.407 I do parenting. In my experience, there's lots of letting 0:15:11.407 --> 0:15:12.887 go of all the things. She thought, it's going to 0:15:12.887 --> 0:15:14.207 be like this, and they're going to be like that, 0:15:14.247 --> 0:15:15.687 and they're going to do that, and it's going to 0:15:15.687 --> 0:15:19.127 be like That's yeah, kids are rarely exactly who you 0:15:19.167 --> 0:15:20.687 pictured them to be anyway. 0:15:20.447 --> 0:15:22.247 No exactly, and they've got their own lives to live, 0:15:22.287 --> 0:15:24.367 like our jobs to love them, support them, help them 0:15:24.407 --> 0:15:28.207 grow into functioning people, and then they go off, maybe 0:15:28.207 --> 0:15:32.367 to the other side of the world sometimes. So you know, yeah, 0:15:32.407 --> 0:15:35.127 I did that too, and I didn't think of my 0:15:35.247 --> 0:15:38.927 former so it was well I kind of did, but 0:15:39.047 --> 0:15:42.287 for a nanosecond, And that's our job. Our children don't 0:15:42.287 --> 0:15:46.407 belong to us. But hopefully by accepting I think she'll 0:15:46.407 --> 0:15:49.167 find more connection forthcoming as well. I think if she 0:15:49.247 --> 0:15:53.767 keeps pushing and pushing, it might work against her, So 0:15:53.807 --> 0:15:56.007 I'd probably just try and get some self care along 0:15:56.367 --> 0:15:58.967 with that as well. For her, she's obviously feeling it. 0:15:59.327 --> 0:16:01.807 If she hasn't seen a professional, she might want to 0:16:01.807 --> 0:16:03.847 do that just to talk through her feelings. Her feelings 0:16:03.847 --> 0:16:07.087 are really valid as well. They're probably a couple of 0:16:07.087 --> 0:16:07.767 practical tips. 0:16:07.767 --> 0:16:13.847 I'd say that's really helped. After the break, we'll hear 0:16:13.887 --> 0:16:16.127 from a woman who's trying to decide whether or not 0:16:16.167 --> 0:16:18.967 to reconnect with her difficult mom who's nearing the end 0:16:19.007 --> 0:16:27.407 of her life. Stay with us. Okay, this one, this 0:16:27.447 --> 0:16:31.487 one is tricky. My mother is in her eighties and 0:16:31.687 --> 0:16:35.287 really quite unwell. She moved into a care facility a 0:16:35.287 --> 0:16:37.567 couple of years ago, and my brothers and I visit 0:16:37.647 --> 0:16:41.407 her regularly, but we have never been a particularly close family. 0:16:42.167 --> 0:16:45.847 My mother can be spiky and difficult and judgmental. Something 0:16:45.887 --> 0:16:48.287 I've realized as I've gotten older and built my own 0:16:48.327 --> 0:16:51.807 relationships and done some therapy too. Is just her own stuff, 0:16:52.207 --> 0:16:55.367 probably from her childhood. But now that I can see 0:16:55.407 --> 0:16:57.327 the end of her life ahead of us, I can't 0:16:57.367 --> 0:17:00.647 shake the sadness that we might never be close and 0:17:00.727 --> 0:17:03.167 all the missed opportunities we've had to have the kind 0:17:03.207 --> 0:17:06.527 of mother daughter relationships I see around me. Oh my gosh, 0:17:06.647 --> 0:17:10.007 I feel emotional. Is it too late to talk to 0:17:10.007 --> 0:17:12.287 her about this, to be a good daughter in her 0:17:12.327 --> 0:17:15.167 final months or years and to tell each other that 0:17:15.207 --> 0:17:17.807 we're sorry for all the things we clashed over, or 0:17:17.847 --> 0:17:20.607 at least should I do that. I've thought about writing 0:17:20.607 --> 0:17:23.327 her a letter that me or someone else could read 0:17:23.367 --> 0:17:27.287 to her. Is that a good idea? Oh, Jackie? Is 0:17:27.927 --> 0:17:31.967 this is really sad because I think a little bit 0:17:32.127 --> 0:17:36.167 like our first question. So often it's the picture of 0:17:36.287 --> 0:17:38.647 how you think things should be. 0:17:38.767 --> 0:17:41.767 Yeah, I was thinking that this is how they are, right. 0:17:41.847 --> 0:17:43.127 It's really hard. 0:17:43.887 --> 0:17:45.807 It is her and there's a lot of poignancy in 0:17:45.927 --> 0:17:49.407 this one. I was thinking that too, it echoes through 0:17:49.647 --> 0:17:52.887 the relationship wasn't what she wanted it to be, and 0:17:53.687 --> 0:17:58.927 she's wisely trying to understand that and understood that her 0:17:58.967 --> 0:18:03.287 mum had limitations in whatever she experienced through her childhood, 0:18:03.327 --> 0:18:08.487 which would affect how she fostered and promoted the relationship 0:18:08.527 --> 0:18:12.847 with her and to siblings. She's asked is it too 0:18:12.927 --> 0:18:16.367 late and I think it's never too late to try 0:18:16.567 --> 0:18:20.607 and to try and connect and if she sits with it, 0:18:21.607 --> 0:18:24.927 if she didn't do that, how would she feel if 0:18:24.927 --> 0:18:27.487 she didn't at least try? She said another wise thing 0:18:27.527 --> 0:18:31.647 there too, like should we apologize to each other about 0:18:31.647 --> 0:18:33.527 the ways we've hurt each other or something like that 0:18:34.287 --> 0:18:37.247 we'vehed over the things we've clashed over. And then she said, 0:18:37.287 --> 0:18:39.127 or should I do that? And I think that's all 0:18:39.167 --> 0:18:42.527 we can ever control is what we communicate. We can't 0:18:42.567 --> 0:18:48.367 control anyone else's inputs. So I'd be encouraging this listener 0:18:49.127 --> 0:18:52.367 to yes to think of that as a good idea 0:18:53.287 --> 0:18:56.687 to perhaps get some support professionally while she works through 0:18:57.007 --> 0:19:00.087 what it is she wants to express. Because the thing 0:19:00.167 --> 0:19:03.047 I'll do with my clients is if there's a situation 0:19:03.207 --> 0:19:07.167 like this and this is not uncommon, sadly, is to 0:19:07.207 --> 0:19:11.847 prepare themselves emotionally for whatever reaction might come. 0:19:12.847 --> 0:19:15.447 Because it might not go like the movie. They might know, 0:19:15.647 --> 0:19:19.727 you know your loved one might not accept your apology 0:19:19.767 --> 0:19:22.127 and want to participate in the same way. 0:19:22.007 --> 0:19:25.007 They may not want to listen. They may want to avoid, 0:19:25.447 --> 0:19:28.127 They may get angry, They may say, oh no, that 0:19:28.207 --> 0:19:32.247 never happened. They may I don't know. You know, there's 0:19:32.247 --> 0:19:35.927 all sorts of reactions people can have, so a lot 0:19:35.967 --> 0:19:38.367 of it's about context and setting the context. So for 0:19:38.447 --> 0:19:41.807 her writing something is quite useful too, and I'd probably 0:19:41.847 --> 0:19:43.687 take some time to get to the point where she's 0:19:44.287 --> 0:19:50.327 got something she's happy with. I'd encourage her to learn 0:19:50.407 --> 0:19:55.807 some communication tools that sort of neutralize the sting of 0:19:55.887 --> 0:19:59.487 sometimes the things we might want to say, simple ones. 0:19:59.607 --> 0:20:03.127 There's a communication tool called the non violent Communication Tool, 0:20:03.767 --> 0:20:06.367 and it was first developed I think thirty forty years 0:20:06.407 --> 0:20:09.047 ago in the prison system in America to try and 0:20:09.087 --> 0:20:13.367 re juice punch ups between inmates. Basically, you try and 0:20:13.407 --> 0:20:16.567 describe how you felt about a certain situation, and you 0:20:16.647 --> 0:20:20.207 try and describe the situation and not the person, so 0:20:20.647 --> 0:20:24.327 you might can take a bit of grammatical effort, which 0:20:24.327 --> 0:20:26.487 is why it's good to prepare as well, not just 0:20:26.527 --> 0:20:29.127 to go in blind to say something like, you know, 0:20:30.087 --> 0:20:34.927 when I was told I was stupid or something growing up, 0:20:35.127 --> 0:20:38.487 I felt devastated and like you didn't love me or 0:20:38.527 --> 0:20:41.847 whatever it might be, rather than say when you said this, 0:20:42.167 --> 0:20:44.847 and again, our primal brains will kick in when we 0:20:44.887 --> 0:20:48.087 hear the word you in an argument. I mean, we 0:20:48.167 --> 0:20:49.567 may not be aware of it, it may not be a 0:20:49.567 --> 0:20:52.167 conscious thing, but we'll often get defensive and we'll often 0:20:52.767 --> 0:20:54.967 feel like it's an attack, and it's not an attack. 0:20:55.047 --> 0:20:59.367 Someone's trying to express themselves. But then the people can 0:20:59.367 --> 0:21:02.327 shut down and not listen to what comes next. And 0:21:02.407 --> 0:21:07.007 so sharing breeds intimacy as well. And perhaps the mum 0:21:07.127 --> 0:21:09.767 had a different perspective of things as they were growing up, 0:21:09.767 --> 0:21:13.007 all their conflicts, and so sharing how it was for 0:21:13.087 --> 0:21:16.407 her could be a really healing thing for her, no 0:21:16.447 --> 0:21:18.287 matter what her mum reacts with. 0:21:19.007 --> 0:21:22.407 It's so interesting that you say, you know, prepare yourself 0:21:22.767 --> 0:21:26.407 to get a reaction. How do you do that? Because 0:21:27.047 --> 0:21:29.407