1 00:00:10,327 --> 00:00:13,047 Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 2 00:00:13,727 --> 00:00:16,767 Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 3 00:00:16,807 --> 00:00:23,527 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to 4 00:00:23,607 --> 00:00:26,607 Speaker 2: Mamma Mia out Loud. It's what women are actually talking about. 5 00:00:26,607 --> 00:00:29,687 Speaker 2: On Wednesday, the nineteenth of June. I'm Holly Wainwright. 6 00:00:29,807 --> 00:00:30,687 Speaker 1: I'm mea Friedman. 7 00:00:30,847 --> 00:00:33,487 Speaker 3: I'm Emmurnham filling in for Jesse. You can also listen 8 00:00:33,527 --> 00:00:36,087 Speaker 3: to me on our daily podcast, The Spill Listen. 9 00:00:36,127 --> 00:00:38,527 Speaker 2: On Monday, we did a segment with Gemma who was 10 00:00:38,567 --> 00:00:41,407 Speaker 2: filling in for Jesse on Monday, Gemma Bath, and it 11 00:00:41,447 --> 00:00:45,447 Speaker 2: was about intergenerational wealth, so specifically about whether or not 12 00:00:45,927 --> 00:00:49,287 Speaker 2: it's ever been harder to be about thirty in Australia. 13 00:00:49,807 --> 00:00:52,527 Speaker 2: And to say that it popped off that segment in 14 00:00:52,607 --> 00:00:55,767 Speaker 2: terms of feedback, there's a little bit of an understatement. 15 00:00:56,087 --> 00:01:00,087 Speaker 2: The discussions around it are still going on. There's some 16 00:01:00,207 --> 00:01:03,207 Speaker 2: mud slinging, there's some like we did it tougher than 17 00:01:03,247 --> 00:01:05,727 Speaker 2: new conversations. Anyway, Clearly you. 18 00:01:05,767 --> 00:01:07,007 Speaker 3: Guys are very interested in it. 19 00:01:07,287 --> 00:01:10,007 Speaker 2: We will talk about it again, but thank you a 20 00:01:10,007 --> 00:01:11,887 Speaker 2: few feedback and if you haven't listened to it, go 21 00:01:11,927 --> 00:01:12,527 Speaker 2: and listen to it. 22 00:01:12,607 --> 00:01:15,287 Speaker 3: The other episode that's popping off, as you said, Holly 23 00:01:15,487 --> 00:01:18,167 Speaker 3: in the Outluders group is We did a group therapy 24 00:01:18,287 --> 00:01:21,447 Speaker 3: episode last week. We helped an outlouder deal with a 25 00:01:21,527 --> 00:01:24,607 Speaker 3: dilemma about her daughter, who's twenty three. She had a 26 00:01:24,687 --> 00:01:28,207 Speaker 3: terrible night out on her birthday. It involved address and 27 00:01:28,287 --> 00:01:30,527 Speaker 3: involved her boss and a few gross men. 28 00:01:30,727 --> 00:01:34,327 Speaker 1: And nothing feels better than a group therapy session. So 29 00:01:34,567 --> 00:01:36,287 Speaker 1: we want to hear from you. If there's a problem 30 00:01:36,407 --> 00:01:39,047 Speaker 1: that you think we can help you solve, you can 31 00:01:39,087 --> 00:01:41,087 Speaker 1: send us your dilemma by clicking the link in our 32 00:01:41,127 --> 00:01:43,367 Speaker 1: show notes and recording us a voice note. You don't 33 00:01:43,367 --> 00:01:45,207 Speaker 1: have to give your name, but we want to hear 34 00:01:45,287 --> 00:01:47,607 Speaker 1: you tell your problem in your own words. 35 00:01:48,887 --> 00:01:54,007 Speaker 2: On today's show, the most mysterious jam in the world 36 00:01:54,567 --> 00:02:01,647 Speaker 2: is Megan Markle, disorganized af or a marketing genius an investigation. Also, 37 00:02:02,167 --> 00:02:04,887 Speaker 2: alphas are out, fuck boys are out, even rodents are out. 38 00:02:04,887 --> 00:02:08,967 Speaker 2: Now apparently the most attractive energy a hetero man can 39 00:02:09,007 --> 00:02:13,767 Speaker 2: put is daddy. And are you creeped out yet? And 40 00:02:14,047 --> 00:02:16,287 Speaker 2: is there someone in your life who loves to monologue 41 00:02:16,287 --> 00:02:18,327 Speaker 2: at you? If so, there's a way to shut them up. 42 00:02:18,327 --> 00:02:20,927 Speaker 2: And MV knows what it is. But first me a freedman. 43 00:02:21,327 --> 00:02:23,727 Speaker 1: In case you missed it, justin Timberlake's been arrested. 44 00:02:24,447 --> 00:02:28,247 Speaker 2: I hadn't missed it because who doesn't love a celebrity 45 00:02:28,327 --> 00:02:28,847 Speaker 2: mug shot. 46 00:02:29,567 --> 00:02:31,967 Speaker 1: He's forty two and he is in trouble with the 47 00:02:32,047 --> 00:02:34,607 Speaker 1: law because he was drink driving in the Haptins. Not cool. 48 00:02:35,367 --> 00:02:38,447 Speaker 1: The funniest part of this story because drink driving isn't funny. 49 00:02:38,607 --> 00:02:42,927 Speaker 1: But the police officer who pulled him over had no 50 00:02:42,967 --> 00:02:43,647 Speaker 1: idea who he was. 51 00:02:45,607 --> 00:02:46,367 Speaker 3: He was a gen z. 52 00:02:46,727 --> 00:02:50,327 Speaker 1: Yes, it's true. So Timberlake claimed that he only had 53 00:02:50,367 --> 00:02:52,767 Speaker 1: one martini and he was arrested and taken to the 54 00:02:52,767 --> 00:02:55,287 Speaker 1: police station, where he refused to take a breath test. 55 00:02:55,647 --> 00:02:57,487 Speaker 1: But before he was taken there, I don't know if 56 00:02:57,487 --> 00:03:00,607 Speaker 1: you've seen some of those videos. In America, they don't 57 00:03:00,607 --> 00:03:02,927 Speaker 1: have like random breath testing. You sort of go and 58 00:03:02,967 --> 00:03:05,247 Speaker 1: do it back at the police station if you get arrested. 59 00:03:05,527 --> 00:03:07,927 Speaker 1: They have these sobriety tests, like walking a straight line, 60 00:03:08,047 --> 00:03:10,647 Speaker 1: answer these questions down and one foot touched you tip 61 00:03:10,687 --> 00:03:11,527 Speaker 1: of your nose with your finger. 62 00:03:11,567 --> 00:03:12,447 Speaker 3: That's quite embarrassing. 63 00:03:12,607 --> 00:03:16,967 Speaker 1: Yeah, they're called field sobriety tests. He failed all of those, 64 00:03:17,367 --> 00:03:20,407 Speaker 1: and according to a source. The officer said that, you know, 65 00:03:20,647 --> 00:03:22,927 Speaker 1: Justin had said under his breath, this is going to 66 00:03:22,967 --> 00:03:24,847 Speaker 1: ruin the tour because he's currently on a world tour. 67 00:03:25,127 --> 00:03:28,567 Speaker 1: And the cop replied, what tour? And Justin said, the 68 00:03:28,607 --> 00:03:33,447 Speaker 1: world tool where I dance and sing on the stage. 69 00:03:33,447 --> 00:03:34,367 Speaker 1: Don't you know who I am? 70 00:03:34,927 --> 00:03:36,567 Speaker 2: The cop did not know who he was. 71 00:03:36,807 --> 00:03:39,567 Speaker 3: No, the cop would have genuinely been convinced that man 72 00:03:39,687 --> 00:03:40,767 Speaker 3: is so intoxicated. 73 00:03:40,887 --> 00:03:44,047 Speaker 1: Do you remember when this happened to Reese Witherspoon and 74 00:03:44,167 --> 00:03:46,167 Speaker 1: she was like, don't you know who I am? 75 00:03:46,327 --> 00:03:48,167 Speaker 2: It's not cool, It's never cool. 76 00:03:48,207 --> 00:03:50,807 Speaker 1: Why do you think people are sort of gleeful about 77 00:03:50,807 --> 00:03:51,567 Speaker 1: this story? Hold? 78 00:03:51,647 --> 00:03:53,887 Speaker 2: The world is really keen to turn on Justin Timberlake, 79 00:03:54,047 --> 00:03:57,327 Speaker 2: and it's not really clear why except we've got an 80 00:03:57,367 --> 00:04:01,167 Speaker 2: ick right. And it's somewhat Brittany related because when she 81 00:04:01,207 --> 00:04:03,007 Speaker 2: wrote her book and it came out, she spoke about 82 00:04:03,047 --> 00:04:05,967 Speaker 2: him cheating on her. She spoke about the abortion that 83 00:04:06,007 --> 00:04:08,047 Speaker 2: she had that she didn't want to have, and kind 84 00:04:08,047 --> 00:04:11,127 Speaker 2: of righted the narrative that it was always him who'd 85 00:04:11,167 --> 00:04:13,007 Speaker 2: been wronged the Crime River, and. 86 00:04:13,047 --> 00:04:15,927 Speaker 1: He made the film clip Crime River that made it 87 00:04:15,967 --> 00:04:18,007 Speaker 1: seem like she'd cheated on him, which I think she 88 00:04:18,047 --> 00:04:21,287 Speaker 1: also did. But then it was Janet Jackson thing. I 89 00:04:21,327 --> 00:04:23,447 Speaker 1: think it was where he was performing in the super 90 00:04:23,447 --> 00:04:25,087 Speaker 1: Bowl with her and then he ripped off her top 91 00:04:25,127 --> 00:04:28,167 Speaker 1: and her nipple was exposed and she got canceled, but 92 00:04:28,327 --> 00:04:30,567 Speaker 1: he didn't, even though it was clearly something that they 93 00:04:30,847 --> 00:04:32,327 Speaker 1: planned together. It was a stunt. 94 00:04:32,407 --> 00:04:35,327 Speaker 2: And then he cheated on his wife allegedly, allegedly, and 95 00:04:35,367 --> 00:04:38,127 Speaker 2: so people are very ready to turn on him, and 96 00:04:38,207 --> 00:04:41,247 Speaker 2: he is back with new music which is actually quite banging. 97 00:04:41,327 --> 00:04:43,567 Speaker 3: I have to say I like music. 98 00:04:43,687 --> 00:04:46,407 Speaker 2: I don't mind justin Timberlake's music at all. But we've 99 00:04:46,447 --> 00:04:47,967 Speaker 2: all decided he's a bit of a dick. So I 100 00:04:47,967 --> 00:04:50,087 Speaker 2: think there's a lot of glee in seeing this. I 101 00:04:50,167 --> 00:04:52,847 Speaker 2: just need to say one Martini. 102 00:04:52,487 --> 00:04:52,887 Speaker 1: Is a lot. 103 00:04:52,927 --> 00:04:55,727 Speaker 2: There's a lot of alcohol and proper martini not driving 104 00:04:55,727 --> 00:04:59,087 Speaker 2: a car. I'm always really confused when celebrities get arrested. Duy, 105 00:04:59,167 --> 00:05:01,847 Speaker 2: because if I was rich and famous, the number one 106 00:05:01,887 --> 00:05:04,007 Speaker 2: thing I would have as a driver because I would 107 00:05:04,007 --> 00:05:06,487 Speaker 2: want to go out and drink my Martini's in the Hamptons. 108 00:05:06,727 --> 00:05:08,727 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know why he decided to drive. He 109 00:05:08,767 --> 00:05:11,927 Speaker 3: did say he was following friends in his twenty twenty 110 00:05:11,967 --> 00:05:13,607 Speaker 3: five BMW. 111 00:05:13,047 --> 00:05:14,487 Speaker 1: And he went through a stop sign and then he 112 00:05:14,567 --> 00:05:17,167 Speaker 1: swerved onto the wrong side. He killed someone, he could 113 00:05:17,167 --> 00:05:19,567 Speaker 1: have injured himself. Like not cool. 114 00:05:19,687 --> 00:05:22,167 Speaker 3: What I am really interested in is the camera they 115 00:05:22,247 --> 00:05:25,167 Speaker 3: used to take this mugshot, because it looks beautiful. It's 116 00:05:25,367 --> 00:05:27,887 Speaker 3: so high quality. It looks like one of our Mummia headshots. 117 00:05:27,927 --> 00:05:29,927 Speaker 1: I wonder if you can request filters these days. 118 00:05:30,047 --> 00:05:34,327 Speaker 2: Probably people, there is a jam in the world so 119 00:05:34,607 --> 00:05:38,847 Speaker 2: rare and exquisite that money cannot buy it. And it's 120 00:05:38,887 --> 00:05:41,887 Speaker 2: really pissing me off because, as regular out loud as 121 00:05:42,047 --> 00:05:45,047 Speaker 2: will know, I live with an award winning scone maker, 122 00:05:45,287 --> 00:05:48,447 Speaker 2: Yes he I do. What does a scone needs needs 123 00:05:48,567 --> 00:05:54,327 Speaker 2: jam Brent's country show Triumphing Scones deserve the finest condiments, 124 00:05:54,327 --> 00:05:58,727 Speaker 2: and apparently they are to be found in Montecito and California. 125 00:05:58,807 --> 00:06:02,407 Speaker 2: They are handmade in a multimillion dollar mansion by an 126 00:06:02,487 --> 00:06:06,767 Speaker 2: actual duchess. And it has been three months already and 127 00:06:06,847 --> 00:06:10,207 Speaker 2: yet no jam for sale. I'm talking, of course, about 128 00:06:10,247 --> 00:06:13,887 Speaker 2: American riviera orchard, or as we like to call it 129 00:06:13,927 --> 00:06:17,327 Speaker 2: in an irritating moment Mirror out Loud in joke American 130 00:06:17,447 --> 00:06:25,207 Speaker 2: Riviera Orchard now Duchess Meghan of Sussex's home brand. This week, 131 00:06:25,247 --> 00:06:28,087 Speaker 2: my suspense was extended with the news that the lucky 132 00:06:28,167 --> 00:06:31,847 Speaker 2: influencers who received the first batch of Megan's Jam have 133 00:06:32,047 --> 00:06:34,847 Speaker 2: just got another jar, which just seems unfair when I 134 00:06:34,887 --> 00:06:37,967 Speaker 2: still haven't got any. And this is raspberry to add 135 00:06:38,007 --> 00:06:41,967 Speaker 2: to the strawberry, which is not exactly groundbreaking, but okay, Meghan. 136 00:06:42,487 --> 00:06:44,807 Speaker 2: The challenge of how to style their very special Jam 137 00:06:44,847 --> 00:06:48,607 Speaker 2: in the announcing Instagram post was thrown down to Nacho Fugeris, 138 00:06:49,047 --> 00:06:51,047 Speaker 2: who is a polo player who's really good mates with 139 00:06:51,087 --> 00:06:54,127 Speaker 2: Harry and Meg's and he chose to post it along 140 00:06:54,167 --> 00:06:57,527 Speaker 2: with a bombshell hint that there are also dog biscuits 141 00:06:57,567 --> 00:07:01,167 Speaker 2: on safe. Oh goodye, I thought, And I went straight 142 00:07:01,207 --> 00:07:04,047 Speaker 2: to the source, American Riviera Orchard, where I have already 143 00:07:04,487 --> 00:07:07,567 Speaker 2: months ago put in my email to be alerted when 144 00:07:07,607 --> 00:07:08,847 Speaker 2: the jam is on release. 145 00:07:09,487 --> 00:07:09,847 Speaker 1: Nothing. 146 00:07:10,207 --> 00:07:12,847 Speaker 2: Nothing, nothing, I've had no email from that. I haven't 147 00:07:12,847 --> 00:07:15,047 Speaker 2: even had a thanks for subscribing email from them. No, 148 00:07:15,087 --> 00:07:17,367 Speaker 2: I've had nothing. Poor user journey, I know. And then 149 00:07:17,407 --> 00:07:19,727 Speaker 2: so I went straight to the Instagram account. I'm like, 150 00:07:19,807 --> 00:07:22,247 Speaker 2: surely they're posting about the Jam. It must be coming 151 00:07:22,727 --> 00:07:24,887 Speaker 2: nothing still just one of those what do you call those? 152 00:07:24,927 --> 00:07:30,327 Speaker 1: Those collarge logo they're very five six years ago March. 153 00:07:31,527 --> 00:07:34,007 Speaker 2: It was March that we first got told about the jam. 154 00:07:34,127 --> 00:07:35,527 Speaker 2: It's now mid June. 155 00:07:35,567 --> 00:07:38,487 Speaker 1: Holly's got a diary note. She's making temporaneous. 156 00:07:37,847 --> 00:07:41,447 Speaker 2: Notes Mia, why can't I buy the damn Jam? 157 00:07:41,567 --> 00:07:43,847 Speaker 1: I have one question before I tell you, is she 158 00:07:44,007 --> 00:07:49,327 Speaker 1: reposting from that account? What the other celebrities she's not? Okay? Think? 159 00:07:50,047 --> 00:07:53,287 Speaker 1: So here's the strategy. This is known as the sort 160 00:07:53,327 --> 00:07:57,287 Speaker 1: of tease warm up period where you're trying to build buzz, 161 00:07:57,847 --> 00:07:59,647 Speaker 1: and the other thing that you're trying to do is 162 00:07:59,687 --> 00:08:02,447 Speaker 1: build your list and build your following. So you're trying 163 00:08:02,447 --> 00:08:05,607 Speaker 1: to get followers and you're trying to Even more valuable 164 00:08:05,647 --> 00:08:08,367 Speaker 1: than followers is to sign up for your email list, 165 00:08:08,527 --> 00:08:11,847 Speaker 1: because it means that when you're ready to open the 166 00:08:11,887 --> 00:08:15,007 Speaker 1: doors and make your jam freely available to the PLEDs 167 00:08:15,127 --> 00:08:18,007 Speaker 1: like us, you can email them direct and you don't 168 00:08:18,007 --> 00:08:20,887 Speaker 1: have to worry about an algorithm who's going to reach you. 169 00:08:20,887 --> 00:08:23,487 Speaker 1: You can just it's very valuable having the email addresses 170 00:08:23,767 --> 00:08:26,767 Speaker 1: of prospective customers, much more than just having people follow 171 00:08:26,807 --> 00:08:29,687 Speaker 1: you on Instagram. That's also important, But the more important 172 00:08:29,687 --> 00:08:35,567 Speaker 1: thing is the email addresses. Now to build anticipation like 173 00:08:35,607 --> 00:08:38,207 Speaker 1: a movie trailer coming out right. So when you've got 174 00:08:38,247 --> 00:08:41,167 Speaker 1: a product that you're launching, this is not a path 175 00:08:41,207 --> 00:08:44,007 Speaker 1: that's unfamiliar to a lot of people who've started businesses. 176 00:08:44,447 --> 00:08:47,047 Speaker 1: You send something out to influencers in the hope that 177 00:08:47,047 --> 00:08:50,047 Speaker 1: they'll post it. What's interesting about this is that it 178 00:08:50,207 --> 00:08:54,127 Speaker 1: works magnificently in a two way street because the famous 179 00:08:54,127 --> 00:08:57,007 Speaker 1: people that she's sending it to, it's not like them 180 00:08:57,087 --> 00:09:01,927 Speaker 1: being sent some toothpaste or ordinary dog biscuits or ordinary jam. 181 00:09:02,247 --> 00:09:04,287 Speaker 1: Why would they post it, right, Because if they did 182 00:09:04,327 --> 00:09:07,887 Speaker 1: post it, all the benefit and all the exposure goes 183 00:09:07,927 --> 00:09:10,407 Speaker 1: to whoever sent it to them, whoever's paying them to 184 00:09:10,447 --> 00:09:13,887 Speaker 1: post it. Could this be a paid campaign? Unlikely given 185 00:09:14,127 --> 00:09:17,247 Speaker 1: the level of the celebrities involved, But because Megan is 186 00:09:17,247 --> 00:09:20,127 Speaker 1: who she is, if they post the jam on their 187 00:09:20,167 --> 00:09:23,527 Speaker 1: pages and their stories, it will be picked up by 188 00:09:23,527 --> 00:09:27,847 Speaker 1: the Daily Mail, by media worldwide, so that then helps 189 00:09:27,887 --> 00:09:32,527 Speaker 1: them build their followers. It's a beautiful partnership, a beautiful 190 00:09:32,527 --> 00:09:37,007 Speaker 1: what's called a flywheel in product marketing. They'll get more 191 00:09:37,087 --> 00:09:40,047 Speaker 1: jam and they'll get more jam. Now my concern also 192 00:09:40,367 --> 00:09:43,007 Speaker 1: as a lady startup someone who starts runs her own 193 00:09:43,007 --> 00:09:45,887 Speaker 1: business and has advised many women on how to start businesses. 194 00:09:46,447 --> 00:09:50,647 Speaker 1: When I look at the packaging of the jam, and 195 00:09:51,087 --> 00:09:54,447 Speaker 1: I think the dog biscuits as well. These are very artisanal, 196 00:09:54,687 --> 00:09:56,647 Speaker 1: which is I think the point of the label, and 197 00:09:56,767 --> 00:10:00,207 Speaker 1: artisanal's kind of like handmade. The problem is that that's 198 00:10:00,447 --> 00:10:05,047 Speaker 1: very hard to scale. You need someone to hand cut 199 00:10:05,287 --> 00:10:08,567 Speaker 1: the muslin or the raffia and to hand tie it 200 00:10:08,687 --> 00:10:13,287 Speaker 1: around and to hand label the jars of jam. That's 201 00:10:13,407 --> 00:10:14,887 Speaker 1: very hard to scale. So you can do that for 202 00:10:14,967 --> 00:10:17,767 Speaker 1: fifty and because each jam is labeled one of fifty, 203 00:10:18,087 --> 00:10:21,287 Speaker 1: what about when Holly and I are let loose well polymore, 204 00:10:22,527 --> 00:10:26,927 Speaker 1: then suddenly she's got to wrap five thousand, fifty thousand 205 00:10:27,367 --> 00:10:30,007 Speaker 1: pieces of muslin around a jam jar and send me 206 00:10:30,327 --> 00:10:31,087 Speaker 1: doing that. 207 00:10:31,127 --> 00:10:31,847 Speaker 3: She's got kids. 208 00:10:31,887 --> 00:10:34,407 Speaker 2: I love the idea that in the kitchen him on 209 00:10:34,527 --> 00:10:35,367 Speaker 2: to see it. Now. 210 00:10:35,407 --> 00:10:37,607 Speaker 1: I know that she's not doing it, and no one 211 00:10:37,607 --> 00:10:39,887 Speaker 1: would think that she was. But even if that's the 212 00:10:40,007 --> 00:10:42,927 Speaker 1: level of packaging, someone has to do that, and the 213 00:10:42,967 --> 00:10:45,807 Speaker 1: cost of having someone do that on a product that 214 00:10:45,847 --> 00:10:47,567 Speaker 1: you can't charge that much for. I mean, you can't 215 00:10:47,647 --> 00:10:50,727 Speaker 1: charge five hundred dollars for it. The margin of profit 216 00:10:51,447 --> 00:10:53,367 Speaker 1: is tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny tiny. 217 00:10:53,447 --> 00:10:56,447 Speaker 2: Here's my question though, right everybody wants to know how 218 00:10:56,527 --> 00:10:58,967 Speaker 2: much this jam is going to cost, because, as you've said, 219 00:10:59,047 --> 00:11:00,767 Speaker 2: like very high value, what would. 220 00:11:00,607 --> 00:11:01,207 Speaker 1: You pay for it? 221 00:11:01,647 --> 00:11:03,727 Speaker 3: And shipping as well. 222 00:11:03,367 --> 00:11:04,647 Speaker 1: Shipping to Australia? 223 00:11:05,007 --> 00:11:07,447 Speaker 2: What would you pay for it in this economy, I'm 224 00:11:07,487 --> 00:11:09,647 Speaker 2: not paying a lot of money for jar. 225 00:11:09,927 --> 00:11:11,967 Speaker 1: Pay twenty dollars for Megan's Jam. 226 00:11:12,087 --> 00:11:13,487 Speaker 2: I might pay twenty dollars. 227 00:11:13,647 --> 00:11:15,607 Speaker 1: What about another ten dollars for shipping? 228 00:11:15,767 --> 00:11:17,927 Speaker 3: If my nation to their charity. 229 00:11:17,647 --> 00:11:20,207 Speaker 2: If I well, there will definitely be a charity bit 230 00:11:20,287 --> 00:11:22,367 Speaker 2: when they release this, because there's no way they can 231 00:11:22,407 --> 00:11:25,367 Speaker 2: just be seen to be literally making money jam. They 232 00:11:25,407 --> 00:11:28,887 Speaker 2: will be. There will be a charity component, But it 233 00:11:29,207 --> 00:11:33,407 Speaker 2: really does. But if I did spend thirty dollars on 234 00:11:33,447 --> 00:11:35,567 Speaker 2: a jar of Megan's Jam, apart from having to have 235 00:11:35,607 --> 00:11:38,327 Speaker 2: a very good hard look at myself in the mirror. 236 00:11:38,367 --> 00:11:39,807 Speaker 1: I would be guarding that fucking joy. 237 00:11:39,807 --> 00:11:42,567 Speaker 2: If any of my children came near that jam, I 238 00:11:42,567 --> 00:11:45,967 Speaker 2: would chop off their little chubby fingers. But my question 239 00:11:46,007 --> 00:11:48,367 Speaker 2: about the marketing genius here me and you're the expert. 240 00:11:48,367 --> 00:11:50,367 Speaker 2: As you've said, that makes a lot of sense. We've 241 00:11:50,407 --> 00:11:54,087 Speaker 2: just said, but when does Fomo just become like they 242 00:11:54,127 --> 00:11:54,727 Speaker 2: haven't got. 243 00:11:54,567 --> 00:11:55,367 Speaker 3: Their shit together? 244 00:11:55,447 --> 00:11:58,687 Speaker 2: And that's exactly three months and no new messaging from 245 00:11:58,727 --> 00:12:01,767 Speaker 2: the actual brand, no more teasing from the actual brand. 246 00:12:02,487 --> 00:12:03,567 Speaker 3: It just feels a bit. 247 00:12:03,847 --> 00:12:08,127 Speaker 1: See. My belief, based on nothing but experience and anecdotes, 248 00:12:08,767 --> 00:12:12,047 Speaker 1: is that you you have to get that lead period, right, because, 249 00:12:12,087 --> 00:12:15,967 Speaker 1: as you say, people just forget. I think nothing that 250 00:12:16,007 --> 00:12:18,967 Speaker 1: she does is ever gonna need more buzz because there's 251 00:12:19,007 --> 00:12:20,487 Speaker 1: just going to be I mean, money for Jam is 252 00:12:20,527 --> 00:12:23,967 Speaker 1: the headlines everywhere. And when we said twenty dollars, imagine 253 00:12:23,967 --> 00:12:26,487 Speaker 1: twenty dollars US like, that's kind of the least she 254 00:12:26,527 --> 00:12:27,487 Speaker 1: can charge, right. 255 00:12:27,447 --> 00:12:29,887 Speaker 2: Forty dollars Imagine the forty dollars Jam. 256 00:12:29,967 --> 00:12:30,207 Speaker 4: Yeah. 257 00:12:30,687 --> 00:12:33,527 Speaker 1: So I know that when I'm watching a streamer and 258 00:12:33,567 --> 00:12:35,727 Speaker 1: there's a promo for a feel I want to see 259 00:12:35,767 --> 00:12:38,047 Speaker 1: or a new TV show, I want to watch it 260 00:12:38,087 --> 00:12:41,967 Speaker 1: immediately because they're I've forgotten because I've seen twenty more ads. 261 00:12:42,247 --> 00:12:45,327 Speaker 1: So I'm always like, keep the tees close to the 262 00:12:45,367 --> 00:12:49,287 Speaker 1: actual time. That's not what everybody believes. I do think 263 00:12:49,327 --> 00:12:51,287 Speaker 1: three months is quite a long time. But no doubt 264 00:12:51,287 --> 00:12:54,247 Speaker 1: she's having production issues noiceuse everybody does. 265 00:12:54,367 --> 00:12:56,847 Speaker 3: How would you feel if you guys get your jam 266 00:12:57,007 --> 00:12:59,887 Speaker 3: and it's just a generic sticker label. 267 00:13:00,167 --> 00:13:03,247 Speaker 2: Or imagine if it's just like normal supermarket jam. I 268 00:13:03,247 --> 00:13:04,807 Speaker 2: think an AMaGA jar. 269 00:13:04,927 --> 00:13:07,007 Speaker 3: Because I know, like in our industry, there's a lot 270 00:13:07,047 --> 00:13:09,087 Speaker 3: of PR packages that go around, and the PR package 271 00:13:09,287 --> 00:13:11,687 Speaker 3: always looks better than the actual product. So I don't 272 00:13:11,727 --> 00:13:13,607 Speaker 3: think that's the product everyone's going to be getting. 273 00:13:13,607 --> 00:13:15,647 Speaker 2: Are you excited about no? 274 00:13:16,327 --> 00:13:16,487 Speaker 1: No. 275 00:13:16,767 --> 00:13:19,847 Speaker 3: I was upset that she didn't like lead with raspberry 276 00:13:19,887 --> 00:13:22,287 Speaker 3: because I thought raspberry was the cooler fruit. But I 277 00:13:22,327 --> 00:13:24,607 Speaker 3: think now she has to do raspberry because strawberries are 278 00:13:24,607 --> 00:13:26,567 Speaker 3: out of season and she's waited too long, and I 279 00:13:26,607 --> 00:13:28,047 Speaker 3: want fresh jam if I'm getting jams. 280 00:13:28,047 --> 00:13:29,767 Speaker 2: You know what I love is I love seeing the 281 00:13:29,807 --> 00:13:32,087 Speaker 2: people who she sent the first load to, Like some 282 00:13:32,127 --> 00:13:34,727 Speaker 2: of them are very profresh influencers, and so they've got 283 00:13:34,767 --> 00:13:37,447 Speaker 2: their shot really styled, and they're in a beautiful garden 284 00:13:37,447 --> 00:13:39,967 Speaker 2: with lemons, And then some people are just trying really 285 00:13:40,007 --> 00:13:42,007 Speaker 2: hard how to think of making jam look nice, and 286 00:13:42,007 --> 00:13:45,127 Speaker 2: it's just a piece of bread with some jam smear 287 00:13:45,287 --> 00:13:47,567 Speaker 2: on it and a couple of cut up strawberries like 288 00:13:47,687 --> 00:13:50,767 Speaker 2: laying next to it in a sad way, and they're like, thanks, EM, 289 00:13:51,167 --> 00:13:54,727 Speaker 2: I love you EM, just like jam. 290 00:13:54,487 --> 00:13:57,967 Speaker 1: Is hard to style guys, Yeah, what's next? Blueberry? 291 00:13:58,047 --> 00:13:58,167 Speaker 4: Oh? 292 00:13:58,207 --> 00:13:59,527 Speaker 3: I'm thinking of BlackBerry. 293 00:13:59,687 --> 00:13:59,847 Speaker 2: Oh. 294 00:13:59,887 --> 00:14:01,727 Speaker 1: I like a BlackBerry jam. I'm not a fan of 295 00:14:01,727 --> 00:14:07,167 Speaker 1: blueberry jam. Too sweet? Sweet? Do you want daily outloud access? 296 00:14:07,247 --> 00:14:10,727 Speaker 1: Why wouldn't you? We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday 297 00:14:10,927 --> 00:14:14,167 Speaker 1: exclusively for Mumm of Me Are subscribers Follow the link 298 00:14:14,167 --> 00:14:15,807 Speaker 1: in the show notes to get us in your ears 299 00:14:15,887 --> 00:14:18,607 Speaker 1: five days a week, and a huge thank you if 300 00:14:18,607 --> 00:14:26,007 Speaker 1: you're already a subscriber. I saw a TikTok that's going 301 00:14:26,087 --> 00:14:28,287 Speaker 1: viral this week, and I have questions about it for 302 00:14:28,327 --> 00:14:31,407 Speaker 1: our gen z and single Lady correspondent. 303 00:14:31,247 --> 00:14:32,447 Speaker 3: Single Lady correspondent. 304 00:14:32,527 --> 00:14:35,887 Speaker 1: Yeah, so crim and Urlin, this whole thing is cringe. 305 00:14:36,007 --> 00:14:37,767 Speaker 1: Just wait to you. We wait to I play the video. 306 00:14:38,247 --> 00:14:40,007 Speaker 1: The voice you're about to hear is a guy called Kevin. 307 00:14:40,207 --> 00:14:43,327 Speaker 1: He makes content online about relationships and personal growth for men. 308 00:14:43,527 --> 00:14:47,127 Speaker 1: Is he qualified? Unlikely? Kind of irrelevant? He goes on 309 00:14:47,207 --> 00:14:50,527 Speaker 1: to explain the quality that he's most attractive to a 310 00:14:50,567 --> 00:14:51,887 Speaker 1: woman in a. 311 00:14:51,847 --> 00:14:54,167 Speaker 4: Man Okay, so I think that more guys should be 312 00:14:54,247 --> 00:14:56,847 Speaker 4: talking about this. I know women talk about it, but 313 00:14:57,167 --> 00:14:59,887 Speaker 4: I'm not sure about the guys. But I fully, fully 314 00:14:59,927 --> 00:15:05,847 Speaker 4: believe that the most attractive, just beautiful, like radiant confidence 315 00:15:06,087 --> 00:15:09,687 Speaker 4: that a guy can have. It's not alpha energy, it's 316 00:15:09,727 --> 00:15:12,967 Speaker 4: not cocky energy, it's not fuck boy energy. It is 317 00:15:13,087 --> 00:15:18,807 Speaker 4: having daddy energy. Daddy energy is the most highly highly 318 00:15:18,847 --> 00:15:22,327 Speaker 4: attractive energy that a guy can possess, not only just 319 00:15:22,327 --> 00:15:26,367 Speaker 4: to women in general, but especially to the most high 320 00:15:26,447 --> 00:15:32,047 Speaker 4: quality marriage material, most quote unquote perfect woman that exists, 321 00:15:32,127 --> 00:15:37,767 Speaker 4: because daddy energy has the perfect balance of confidence, protection, 322 00:15:38,367 --> 00:15:41,647 Speaker 4: and safety, and those are some of the highest qualities 323 00:15:41,687 --> 00:15:45,007 Speaker 4: that a woman, specially of high value, wants to see 324 00:15:45,007 --> 00:15:45,567 Speaker 4: in her man. 325 00:15:45,727 --> 00:15:48,247 Speaker 1: I agree, Holly, doesn't she was making out loud as 326 00:15:48,247 --> 00:15:50,127 Speaker 1: you count here. She was making vomiting noises while we 327 00:15:50,127 --> 00:15:50,887 Speaker 1: were listening to that. 328 00:15:51,047 --> 00:15:53,807 Speaker 2: I was particularly making vomiting noises though about him talking 329 00:15:53,847 --> 00:15:58,007 Speaker 2: about high quality women, like please, are you. 330 00:15:58,007 --> 00:16:00,567 Speaker 1: Not a high quality woman and venom? Can you explain 331 00:16:01,327 --> 00:16:04,967 Speaker 1: what daddy energy is and is it about your actual daddy? 332 00:16:05,927 --> 00:16:08,767 Speaker 1: Oh God, because that's creepy as. 333 00:16:08,607 --> 00:16:11,487 Speaker 3: So he goes on to explain that there are three 334 00:16:11,807 --> 00:16:16,567 Speaker 3: kind of components of embodying daddy. Energy, it's confidence, safety, 335 00:16:16,927 --> 00:16:17,527 Speaker 3: and protection. 336 00:16:17,687 --> 00:16:19,527 Speaker 1: Before we get to those, can you just explain to 337 00:16:19,607 --> 00:16:22,887 Speaker 1: me the internet usage of the word daddy, because it's 338 00:16:22,927 --> 00:16:25,727 Speaker 1: become a bit of a thing that some people might 339 00:16:25,767 --> 00:16:28,287 Speaker 1: not understand what daddy means because it's widely used on 340 00:16:28,327 --> 00:16:28,847 Speaker 1: the Internet. 341 00:16:28,967 --> 00:16:31,567 Speaker 3: Yeah, I would describe it as first a gross word, 342 00:16:31,607 --> 00:16:34,447 Speaker 3: but I would describe it as like being thirsty over 343 00:16:34,567 --> 00:16:37,327 Speaker 3: like some really hot celebrity right now, So I would say, 344 00:16:37,527 --> 00:16:39,567 Speaker 3: Paul mescal will be a daddy really. 345 00:16:39,767 --> 00:16:40,087 Speaker 1: Yeah. 346 00:16:40,087 --> 00:16:43,087 Speaker 3: So it's not about age, No, it's about like kind 347 00:16:43,087 --> 00:16:47,007 Speaker 3: of how people, like so many women are thirsting over 348 00:16:47,047 --> 00:16:48,007 Speaker 3: you as a man. 349 00:16:48,247 --> 00:16:50,487 Speaker 1: One of the biggest podcasts in the world is called 350 00:16:50,567 --> 00:16:54,007 Speaker 1: Call Her Daddy, So it's like, daddy, you're my daddy. 351 00:16:54,167 --> 00:16:55,927 Speaker 1: It's like it was a pawn thing, right. 352 00:16:56,127 --> 00:16:58,847 Speaker 3: I think with the podcast, it's like Alex Cooper like 353 00:16:58,927 --> 00:17:02,087 Speaker 3: putting it, yes, averting it on women like I'm the daddy. Yeah. 354 00:17:03,007 --> 00:17:05,287 Speaker 2: Energy is about power, right, So it's not just about 355 00:17:05,367 --> 00:17:07,367 Speaker 2: I'm hot. It's a particular kind of hot. 356 00:17:07,207 --> 00:17:09,927 Speaker 1: And I think it talks about those three. I don't 357 00:17:09,967 --> 00:17:12,407 Speaker 1: think it's about thirst. I think it's what he said, 358 00:17:12,407 --> 00:17:15,487 Speaker 1: it's about confidence, safety, and protection and power. That's what 359 00:17:15,527 --> 00:17:17,287 Speaker 1: a daddy kind of is. 360 00:17:17,367 --> 00:17:18,767 Speaker 3: But then when you have all that, then you end 361 00:17:18,847 --> 00:17:19,527 Speaker 3: up thirsting for. 362 00:17:19,447 --> 00:17:21,447 Speaker 1: That person, right that makes them hot? 363 00:17:21,647 --> 00:17:25,167 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think also, which is weirdly descriptive, but 364 00:17:25,287 --> 00:17:29,927 Speaker 3: he also talks about how encompassing like safety, protection and confidence. 365 00:17:30,327 --> 00:17:34,007 Speaker 3: He uses the metaphor of like having a kingdom and 366 00:17:34,047 --> 00:17:36,607 Speaker 3: you should protect the people within your kingdom, and I 367 00:17:36,647 --> 00:17:37,887 Speaker 3: thought that was really weird. 368 00:17:38,087 --> 00:17:41,687 Speaker 1: Do you remember during COVID everyone started having inappropriate thoughts 369 00:17:41,727 --> 00:17:45,127 Speaker 1: about Josh Fridenberg the treasurer, because every time you turned 370 00:17:45,207 --> 00:17:48,447 Speaker 1: the television on, he would be announcing how he was 371 00:17:48,487 --> 00:17:51,127 Speaker 1: going to give you money. And when we talked about 372 00:17:51,127 --> 00:17:53,367 Speaker 1: this on the show, how suddenly people were like, why 373 00:17:53,407 --> 00:17:55,847 Speaker 1: am I finding Josh Bredenberg so sexy? We didn't do 374 00:17:55,927 --> 00:17:58,687 Speaker 1: a thing on a mayor about it, and women were like, yeah, 375 00:17:58,767 --> 00:18:00,847 Speaker 1: it's because he had daddy energy. 376 00:18:01,247 --> 00:18:04,487 Speaker 2: The examples under this video sort of explained it better 377 00:18:04,487 --> 00:18:06,807 Speaker 2: for me. Well, there was a woman, for example, who said, yeah, 378 00:18:06,807 --> 00:18:09,047 Speaker 2: I used to date a guy who insisted on sleeping 379 00:18:09,567 --> 00:18:12,247 Speaker 2: on the outside nearest to the door because if an 380 00:18:12,287 --> 00:18:15,207 Speaker 2: intruder came in, he would get to him before her. 381 00:18:15,487 --> 00:18:18,047 Speaker 2: And she was like daddy. That's how I understand it, 382 00:18:18,167 --> 00:18:19,287 Speaker 2: right to be the protective thing. 383 00:18:19,367 --> 00:18:20,127 Speaker 3: And you don't like that? 384 00:18:20,527 --> 00:18:20,687 Speaker 1: No? 385 00:18:21,887 --> 00:18:25,407 Speaker 2: Why because you know how people always say like women 386 00:18:25,487 --> 00:18:29,607 Speaker 2: and obviously this is a generic heterosexual stereotype, but one 387 00:18:29,687 --> 00:18:32,167 Speaker 2: a man like their dad, right, Well, A that depends 388 00:18:32,207 --> 00:18:34,647 Speaker 2: on whether or not your dad was any good. Yeah, 389 00:18:34,687 --> 00:18:38,087 Speaker 2: But also we hate admitting that. I think a lot 390 00:18:38,087 --> 00:18:41,367 Speaker 2: of women hate admitting that. But there's something very deep 391 00:18:41,407 --> 00:18:44,607 Speaker 2: in there, right, But dads are all kinds of different. 392 00:18:44,767 --> 00:18:47,127 Speaker 2: I didn't have one of those kind of dads who's like, 393 00:18:47,207 --> 00:18:49,647 Speaker 2: I will protect you in the world. I will fight 394 00:18:49,727 --> 00:18:52,407 Speaker 2: off you know, but what I'll take. 395 00:18:52,247 --> 00:18:55,527 Speaker 1: Care of it? Not like I might fight off intruders. 396 00:18:55,567 --> 00:18:58,207 Speaker 1: But what about just like dad? Can you sort it out? 397 00:18:58,367 --> 00:19:00,607 Speaker 2: Nah, didn't have that kind of dad. And I know 398 00:19:00,607 --> 00:19:03,127 Speaker 2: I'm being literal there, but that's because when I examine 399 00:19:03,127 --> 00:19:07,807 Speaker 2: myself of why I don't find this attractive, it probably 400 00:19:07,887 --> 00:19:10,807 Speaker 2: is that, right, It probably is that my model of 401 00:19:11,287 --> 00:19:14,567 Speaker 2: a man is not that I've never really thought that 402 00:19:14,567 --> 00:19:15,967 Speaker 2: that's like up there. 403 00:19:15,767 --> 00:19:16,807 Speaker 1: On my list of values. 404 00:19:16,847 --> 00:19:19,447 Speaker 2: If I was to write the things I find really 405 00:19:19,447 --> 00:19:22,967 Speaker 2: attractive in a guy, protection is not up there. 406 00:19:23,367 --> 00:19:24,487 Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that I. 407 00:19:24,367 --> 00:19:27,487 Speaker 2: Can't see the appeal of it, Like sure, but for me, 408 00:19:27,767 --> 00:19:31,527 Speaker 2: that's always come with a side of oppression. Like when 409 00:19:31,567 --> 00:19:34,607 Speaker 2: a guy is protecting you, I feel like I'm smaller, 410 00:19:34,967 --> 00:19:36,287 Speaker 2: and I don't want to be smaller. 411 00:19:36,367 --> 00:19:37,327 Speaker 1: Sometimes I do. 412 00:19:37,567 --> 00:19:38,927 Speaker 3: Yeah, really you think? 413 00:19:39,087 --> 00:19:41,167 Speaker 2: So you're out there in the world when you listen 414 00:19:41,207 --> 00:19:44,527 Speaker 2: to this picking and choosing your dudes or whatever much 415 00:19:44,567 --> 00:19:46,047 Speaker 2: she said, like a manner. 416 00:19:47,087 --> 00:19:48,607 Speaker 3: From my long list of men. 417 00:19:48,687 --> 00:19:51,847 Speaker 2: When you hear this, do you like, yes, daddy energy 418 00:19:51,887 --> 00:19:53,207 Speaker 2: is definitely what I'm looking for. 419 00:19:53,327 --> 00:19:56,807 Speaker 3: Okay. I have complicated relationship with daddy energy because I 420 00:19:56,927 --> 00:20:01,687 Speaker 3: have friends whose partners have daddy energy, and it's really 421 00:20:01,727 --> 00:20:05,047 Speaker 3: obvious to me because I'm not in their kingdom, so 422 00:20:05,087 --> 00:20:07,927 Speaker 3: they exclude me from their energy. I want all the 423 00:20:07,967 --> 00:20:10,487 Speaker 3: men in my life to you have daddy energy, not 424 00:20:10,607 --> 00:20:13,047 Speaker 3: just the partner i'm dating. I think when a guy 425 00:20:13,607 --> 00:20:17,407 Speaker 3: embodies daddy energy, it's so obvious for the women's friends 426 00:20:17,407 --> 00:20:19,767 Speaker 3: around her to see that because they see him being 427 00:20:20,127 --> 00:20:23,327 Speaker 3: really protective and safe, but also excluding you from that. 428 00:20:23,927 --> 00:20:25,607 Speaker 3: Like there will be times where I've gone out for 429 00:20:25,687 --> 00:20:28,607 Speaker 3: drinks with friends and then the guy will like turn 430 00:20:28,647 --> 00:20:30,567 Speaker 3: to his partner who's my friend, and be like, can 431 00:20:30,607 --> 00:20:32,247 Speaker 3: I get you anything? Can I get you a drink? 432 00:20:32,287 --> 00:20:33,687 Speaker 3: Can I get you dinner? And then he just leaves 433 00:20:33,687 --> 00:20:35,487 Speaker 3: and I'm like, okay, I'll just go fuck myself then 434 00:20:35,567 --> 00:20:37,647 Speaker 3: like I'm just sitting here. Or there'll be times where 435 00:20:37,687 --> 00:20:38,967 Speaker 3: like my friend will be like, hey, can we give 436 00:20:38,967 --> 00:20:40,527 Speaker 3: you a lift home? And he's just like rolling his 437 00:20:40,607 --> 00:20:42,367 Speaker 3: eyes and he's like, oh, but you have to, like 438 00:20:42,367 --> 00:20:43,887 Speaker 3: you have disappointment and we have to get home to 439 00:20:43,967 --> 00:20:44,327 Speaker 3: the dog. 440 00:20:44,687 --> 00:20:46,887 Speaker 1: And I'm like, but isn't the point of daddy energy 441 00:20:47,087 --> 00:20:50,727 Speaker 1: that they've got to be attractive to you. 442 00:20:51,487 --> 00:20:54,367 Speaker 3: I don't think attractiveness comes into daddy energy. I think 443 00:20:54,407 --> 00:20:55,887 Speaker 3: he's talking about like how to. 444 00:20:55,887 --> 00:20:58,207 Speaker 2: Be what he's talking about, he's talking about how making 445 00:20:58,247 --> 00:21:00,567 Speaker 2: himself more attractive to women by being a dust And 446 00:21:00,567 --> 00:21:01,247 Speaker 2: that's what he's saying. 447 00:21:01,287 --> 00:21:03,647 Speaker 3: He's saying that this is what women want in men 448 00:21:03,767 --> 00:21:04,527 Speaker 3: in a partner. 449 00:21:04,767 --> 00:21:06,807 Speaker 1: You shouldn't be thirsty after your partner. 450 00:21:06,807 --> 00:21:09,527 Speaker 3: I'm not thirst after my I'm just like, the way 451 00:21:09,727 --> 00:21:13,487 Speaker 3: they are being treated is like an ideal way that 452 00:21:13,487 --> 00:21:15,167 Speaker 3: I'd like to also be treated by a partner. But 453 00:21:15,207 --> 00:21:17,127 Speaker 3: I feel like when a man is doing that to 454 00:21:17,207 --> 00:21:20,407 Speaker 3: a woman who he's dating, it comes across as really 455 00:21:20,447 --> 00:21:23,727 Speaker 3: weird to her friends and really awkward because he excludes 456 00:21:23,767 --> 00:21:25,927 Speaker 3: all of them and it just looks like he's treating 457 00:21:25,967 --> 00:21:27,407 Speaker 3: her like a little like puppy baby. 458 00:21:27,847 --> 00:21:30,047 Speaker 2: This is interesting because to me, this is a bit 459 00:21:30,207 --> 00:21:32,287 Speaker 2: like I know women who are like I want to 460 00:21:32,287 --> 00:21:35,447 Speaker 2: be treated like a princess, right. I don't want to 461 00:21:35,487 --> 00:21:37,807 Speaker 2: be treated like a princess. It's not one of my things. 462 00:21:38,327 --> 00:21:41,687 Speaker 2: Sometimes I don't want to be like a little precious 463 00:21:41,727 --> 00:21:43,567 Speaker 2: thing that needs like that's. 464 00:21:43,367 --> 00:21:44,927 Speaker 1: Not my vibe. Right. 465 00:21:45,327 --> 00:21:47,767 Speaker 2: So when I've and I have dated guys who are 466 00:21:47,807 --> 00:21:50,247 Speaker 2: like this, who want to order for you in a restaurant. 467 00:21:50,607 --> 00:21:53,047 Speaker 2: If a guy looks at you funny, they'll kind of 468 00:21:53,407 --> 00:21:55,847 Speaker 2: square off to them a bit, and I find it 469 00:21:56,127 --> 00:21:59,847 Speaker 2: so unattractive. The thing that's interesting about this guy, Kevin, 470 00:21:59,887 --> 00:22:02,167 Speaker 2: as you said me, he's like a manfluencer, and that 471 00:22:02,247 --> 00:22:04,767 Speaker 2: he has a whole thing about how he's telling men 472 00:22:04,807 --> 00:22:07,487 Speaker 2: how to have good relationships. And he has a three 473 00:22:07,647 --> 00:22:10,127 Speaker 2: day free course that you can sign up for where 474 00:22:10,127 --> 00:22:11,207 Speaker 2: he will teach you how. 475 00:22:11,047 --> 00:22:13,087 Speaker 1: To have daddy energy. Well, I think it's better than 476 00:22:13,087 --> 00:22:15,767 Speaker 1: Andrew Tate, who's like, call her a bitch and treat 477 00:22:15,807 --> 00:22:17,567 Speaker 1: to Maine and she'll want you more. 478 00:22:17,367 --> 00:22:19,967 Speaker 2: And I would love to know how he teaches you 479 00:22:20,007 --> 00:22:23,927 Speaker 2: to have it, because what are the physical practical steps, Like, 480 00:22:23,967 --> 00:22:26,047 Speaker 2: how would you tell a guy to have daddy energy? 481 00:22:26,527 --> 00:22:28,167 Speaker 2: What would you think is a really good example. 482 00:22:28,367 --> 00:22:30,647 Speaker 1: I don't think you can teach someone. I think it's 483 00:22:30,687 --> 00:22:32,207 Speaker 1: just who they are. So all the guys that I 484 00:22:32,287 --> 00:22:36,687 Speaker 1: dated in my late teens and early twenties had the 485 00:22:36,687 --> 00:22:38,687 Speaker 1: opposite of daddy energy. I don't know what you'd even 486 00:22:38,727 --> 00:22:42,447 Speaker 1: call it, like Todd lor energy, drug addict energy. Then 487 00:22:42,487 --> 00:22:44,887 Speaker 1: I remember the first night that I spent with Jays. 488 00:22:45,807 --> 00:22:48,327 Speaker 1: The next morning we went back to my place and 489 00:22:48,447 --> 00:22:51,887 Speaker 1: someone had side swiped my car was parked outside my 490 00:22:51,927 --> 00:22:54,967 Speaker 1: apartment and I'd parked it badly and someone had sideswiped it. 491 00:22:55,527 --> 00:22:57,567 Speaker 1: And I just knew that he'd be able to take 492 00:22:57,607 --> 00:23:00,287 Speaker 1: care of it. I don't mean like yeah, but he 493 00:23:00,487 --> 00:23:03,087 Speaker 1: just knew he had to move the car to get 494 00:23:03,087 --> 00:23:05,167 Speaker 1: it off the corner and then. And it's not that 495 00:23:05,167 --> 00:23:06,567 Speaker 1: I couldn't have done it myself, and I think I 496 00:23:06,567 --> 00:23:08,527 Speaker 1: did do it myself, but I knew that he had 497 00:23:08,527 --> 00:23:12,127 Speaker 1: the energy over someone who is capable. To me, it's 498 00:23:12,327 --> 00:23:14,527 Speaker 1: capable and not a child. 499 00:23:14,767 --> 00:23:17,447 Speaker 3: That's what my Dad does for me that no other 500 00:23:17,487 --> 00:23:19,607 Speaker 3: partner has ever done. Like if like a light doesn't work, 501 00:23:19,647 --> 00:23:21,007 Speaker 3: I'm like, Dad will fix it. Like I don't even 502 00:23:21,047 --> 00:23:22,527 Speaker 3: have to say, like he'll just fix it, will just 503 00:23:22,567 --> 00:23:24,847 Speaker 3: come and fix things, and like drive me to places 504 00:23:24,887 --> 00:23:26,167 Speaker 3: because I have parking anxiety. 505 00:23:26,367 --> 00:23:29,047 Speaker 1: When I was much younger, I dated and much older guys, 506 00:23:29,087 --> 00:23:31,087 Speaker 1: you know, and you could say that he had daddy 507 00:23:31,127 --> 00:23:33,647 Speaker 1: energy because I was seventeen and he was thirty three, 508 00:23:33,687 --> 00:23:36,727 Speaker 1: and he you know, I didn't love that. I liked 509 00:23:36,767 --> 00:23:39,487 Speaker 1: part of it, but I didn't really want someone to 510 00:23:40,127 --> 00:23:41,967 Speaker 1: he had daddy energy in a way that was a 511 00:23:41,967 --> 00:23:45,687 Speaker 1: bit more controlling, which I didn't love. So, you know, 512 00:23:45,727 --> 00:23:49,367 Speaker 1: I remember saying to Jayces early in our relationship, we'd 513 00:23:49,367 --> 00:23:50,807 Speaker 1: be going out to dinner and he'd be like, oh, 514 00:23:50,847 --> 00:23:53,207 Speaker 1: you don't need to bring you alllet and I'd get 515 00:23:53,247 --> 00:23:54,807 Speaker 1: angry at him because he was going to pack, and 516 00:23:54,807 --> 00:23:56,847 Speaker 1: I was like, what I've had to pay for every 517 00:23:56,887 --> 00:23:59,087 Speaker 1: guy I've ever dated, And he said, I'll bet I'll 518 00:23:59,127 --> 00:24:01,127 Speaker 1: pay for you. And I said, but I don't dismantle 519 00:24:01,167 --> 00:24:03,767 Speaker 1: my independence, but like you whole like, I'm like, I 520 00:24:03,807 --> 00:24:05,687 Speaker 1: don't need you to pay for me. I'm just stoked 521 00:24:05,727 --> 00:24:09,767 Speaker 1: you can pay for yourself. Yeah, I see. 522 00:24:09,567 --> 00:24:11,527 Speaker 2: How attractive it is. And to be honest, my life 523 00:24:11,567 --> 00:24:15,487 Speaker 2: would probably be less stressful if I chosen someone who 524 00:24:15,487 --> 00:24:18,047 Speaker 2: could take care of all the things. But I just 525 00:24:18,407 --> 00:24:21,367 Speaker 2: for me. Obviously, somewhere it's linked with control and I 526 00:24:21,407 --> 00:24:24,727 Speaker 2: don't like that. And maybe the experiences I've had where 527 00:24:24,807 --> 00:24:27,487 Speaker 2: when a guy is saying I'll take care of it, 528 00:24:27,567 --> 00:24:29,807 Speaker 2: I often feel like I'm being told to sit down 529 00:24:29,847 --> 00:24:31,767 Speaker 2: and shut up, you know what I mean, And I 530 00:24:31,807 --> 00:24:32,447 Speaker 2: don't like. 531 00:24:32,647 --> 00:24:33,607 Speaker 1: I don't like that. 532 00:24:34,127 --> 00:24:37,167 Speaker 2: But this guy's interesting because I can see what he 533 00:24:37,367 --> 00:24:40,367 Speaker 2: means about the confidence that it's hot to walk through 534 00:24:40,367 --> 00:24:43,687 Speaker 2: the world being like I am in charge of my kingdom. 535 00:24:44,167 --> 00:24:46,047 Speaker 2: But I'm like, where does that leave me? I want 536 00:24:46,047 --> 00:24:47,727 Speaker 2: to be a queen? Does the king want a queen? 537 00:24:47,807 --> 00:24:48,167 Speaker 3: I don't know. 538 00:24:48,287 --> 00:24:50,687 Speaker 1: Its other energy is a different thing. So that's Beyonce. 539 00:24:50,807 --> 00:24:54,327 Speaker 1: That's similar. That's like not so much safety. That's iconic status, right, 540 00:24:54,367 --> 00:24:58,447 Speaker 1: So people call Beyonce mother and the goddess mother. They 541 00:24:58,527 --> 00:25:01,607 Speaker 1: might call me Donna mother. It's sort of like goddess 542 00:25:02,047 --> 00:25:04,487 Speaker 1: icon It's not about money. 543 00:25:04,247 --> 00:25:04,527 Speaker 4: Is it. 544 00:25:04,527 --> 00:25:08,207 Speaker 1: It's really about responsibility and capability. I think it's about 545 00:25:08,287 --> 00:25:13,487 Speaker 1: mental load. You know. I think it's about someone who 546 00:25:13,527 --> 00:25:16,447 Speaker 1: will share the mental load or take some mental load 547 00:25:16,567 --> 00:25:20,767 Speaker 1: from you. It's not about someone paying for every for me, 548 00:25:21,047 --> 00:25:24,407 Speaker 1: about someone paying for everything. It's about, oh, I don't 549 00:25:24,407 --> 00:25:25,567 Speaker 1: have to think of everything. 550 00:25:26,007 --> 00:25:26,207 Speaker 2: Yeah. 551 00:25:26,327 --> 00:25:28,607 Speaker 3: I think in the early stages of dating someone, it 552 00:25:28,727 --> 00:25:31,207 Speaker 3: is a bit kind of about the paying thing, Like 553 00:25:31,247 --> 00:25:33,087 Speaker 3: it is a nice story to tell your friends, Like 554 00:25:33,167 --> 00:25:35,007 Speaker 3: you sit down at dinner and they want to hear 555 00:25:35,007 --> 00:25:36,687 Speaker 3: your dating stories, and they're kind of hoping it's a 556 00:25:36,687 --> 00:25:38,607 Speaker 3: tragic one, so they get entertainment out of it, and 557 00:25:38,687 --> 00:25:41,127 Speaker 3: you sit down and you go, he paid for everything, 558 00:25:41,167 --> 00:25:43,247 Speaker 3: Like he organized the date, like he did all of 559 00:25:43,287 --> 00:25:45,087 Speaker 3: this stuff, And like, I feel like that is the 560 00:25:45,167 --> 00:25:49,447 Speaker 3: daddy energy that I like. Because whether that like continues 561 00:25:49,447 --> 00:25:52,047 Speaker 3: on in the relationship or not, like it starts off really. 562 00:25:51,847 --> 00:25:56,087 Speaker 1: Powerful unless it's an early warning sign of it's very controlling. 563 00:25:56,647 --> 00:25:58,207 Speaker 3: Have had that as well, I must say. 564 00:25:58,487 --> 00:26:01,007 Speaker 1: Speaking of love interest, is marrying your best friend ever 565 00:26:01,047 --> 00:26:04,167 Speaker 1: a good idea? Can best friends turn into lovers? And 566 00:26:04,207 --> 00:26:08,887 Speaker 1: should lovers become best friends? In yesterday's episode, we debated this, 567 00:26:09,287 --> 00:26:10,167 Speaker 1: he's a little taste. 568 00:26:10,567 --> 00:26:13,807 Speaker 3: In an ideal world, I would see my romantic partner 569 00:26:14,007 --> 00:26:17,647 Speaker 3: being at the same level as my best friend, not 570 00:26:17,687 --> 00:26:19,447 Speaker 3: above them. And I don't see my best friend being 571 00:26:19,487 --> 00:26:24,527 Speaker 3: above them. My friends who have gotten into relationships, I 572 00:26:24,687 --> 00:26:28,047 Speaker 3: feel me losing them as a best friend. You automatically 573 00:26:28,087 --> 00:26:30,647 Speaker 3: know when their partner becomes their best friend, because you're 574 00:26:30,687 --> 00:26:32,407 Speaker 3: automatically taken off something. 575 00:26:32,447 --> 00:26:34,927 Speaker 2: Well, what's the symptom of that? Tell me what happens 576 00:26:34,967 --> 00:26:38,247 Speaker 2: when you first go, oh, they've taken that spot from me. 577 00:26:38,327 --> 00:26:41,767 Speaker 3: Now, when I find out that they've told their partner 578 00:26:42,207 --> 00:26:44,287 Speaker 3: they've got a promotion, or they've had a fight or 579 00:26:44,367 --> 00:26:46,967 Speaker 3: something before they've told me, I'm like, oh, this is 580 00:26:47,007 --> 00:26:47,967 Speaker 3: the switch. 581 00:26:48,127 --> 00:26:50,167 Speaker 1: Sex with your best friend, good or bad. A link 582 00:26:50,247 --> 00:26:52,167 Speaker 1: to the episode will be in the show notes. 583 00:26:53,127 --> 00:26:56,807 Speaker 3: Do you know someone who just never shuts the fuck up? Sonnis? 584 00:26:57,007 --> 00:27:01,407 Speaker 1: Yeah, your mouth is moving a lot like a rats 585 00:27:02,207 --> 00:27:03,567 Speaker 1: Yeah ya Yapa Yapa. 586 00:27:03,727 --> 00:27:06,727 Speaker 3: Subseac writer and Cadet wrote a post titled how to 587 00:27:06,767 --> 00:27:09,407 Speaker 3: Deal with People who talk and talk and talk and talk. 588 00:27:10,007 --> 00:27:11,887 Speaker 3: She talked about how she had a friend named Gabby 589 00:27:12,087 --> 00:27:14,127 Speaker 3: who she loved and had so much in common with, 590 00:27:14,247 --> 00:27:17,887 Speaker 3: and this friend she called a monologuer. So she said 591 00:27:17,887 --> 00:27:20,687 Speaker 3: that if there was a transcript of their conversation and 592 00:27:20,807 --> 00:27:23,967 Speaker 3: said that Gabby would do ninety five percent of the talking. 593 00:27:24,727 --> 00:27:27,847 Speaker 3: So one day she decided to confront her monologue friend, Gabby, 594 00:27:28,047 --> 00:27:30,247 Speaker 3: and I'm going to read a little excerpt of the substack. 595 00:27:30,407 --> 00:27:34,247 Speaker 3: It's so good, Gabby. I've been feeling a little irritated 596 00:27:34,367 --> 00:27:37,487 Speaker 3: that whenever we meet up, it's mostly you talking about yourself. 597 00:27:37,647 --> 00:27:40,807 Speaker 3: We never talk about me. She expressed surprise, and then, 598 00:27:40,807 --> 00:27:43,647 Speaker 3: to her credit, asked what she should do well. I said, 599 00:27:43,727 --> 00:27:46,247 Speaker 3: you could ask what's new with me? What's new with you? 600 00:27:46,287 --> 00:27:49,327 Speaker 3: Said Gabby. I started relaying a recent adventure, but within 601 00:27:49,447 --> 00:27:53,047 Speaker 3: minutes she steered the conversation back to herself. Gabby, I said, 602 00:27:53,327 --> 00:27:54,727 Speaker 3: we're talking about you again. 603 00:27:54,847 --> 00:27:56,247 Speaker 1: This is such good communication. 604 00:27:56,607 --> 00:27:59,967 Speaker 3: She requested more guidance, and I suggested she express an 605 00:28:00,047 --> 00:28:03,367 Speaker 3: interest in my story by asking questions. Gabby put in 606 00:28:03,367 --> 00:28:06,007 Speaker 3: a mighty effort, but after ten minutes she announced that 607 00:28:06,047 --> 00:28:08,367 Speaker 3: she had to run. Thank you for your honesty, she 608 00:28:08,367 --> 00:28:10,367 Speaker 3: said in her way out, But it was so helpful 609 00:28:10,407 --> 00:28:12,327 Speaker 3: for me to get the feedback. And I never heard 610 00:28:12,327 --> 00:28:18,527 Speaker 3: from Gabby and Holly, do you have a monologer in 611 00:28:18,567 --> 00:28:19,127 Speaker 3: your life? 612 00:28:19,207 --> 00:28:21,647 Speaker 2: I do. I have monologuers in my life, for sure. 613 00:28:22,287 --> 00:28:25,327 Speaker 2: And sometimes I'm really grateful for them because I do 614 00:28:25,367 --> 00:28:28,287 Speaker 2: a lot of talking, and sometimes I don't want to talk. 615 00:28:28,687 --> 00:28:32,007 Speaker 2: So I know there are some social situations in which 616 00:28:32,047 --> 00:28:34,447 Speaker 2: I can just throw someone a question and sit back, 617 00:28:34,607 --> 00:28:38,287 Speaker 2: and that makes me very happy. I don't always have 618 00:28:38,327 --> 00:28:38,927 Speaker 2: a problem with it. 619 00:28:38,967 --> 00:28:41,447 Speaker 1: I have to saya. The best interviews when you just 620 00:28:42,527 --> 00:28:45,687 Speaker 1: you can just go, so, how did you get here? 621 00:28:45,767 --> 00:28:48,127 Speaker 1: And then it's just like, right, okay, thanks for joining us. 622 00:28:48,207 --> 00:28:51,727 Speaker 1: That's always got time for I. When I first read this, 623 00:28:52,007 --> 00:28:54,367 Speaker 1: became panicked that oh shit, and my monologue because I 624 00:28:54,407 --> 00:28:57,407 Speaker 1: talk a lot and I don't shut up. Holly helpfully 625 00:28:57,447 --> 00:29:00,447 Speaker 1: pointed out that I have a different annoying conversational thing, 626 00:29:00,487 --> 00:29:03,727 Speaker 1: which is I'm an interrupter, so I'll interrupt to ask questions. 627 00:29:04,487 --> 00:29:09,007 Speaker 1: I have people in my life who do this. I 628 00:29:09,047 --> 00:29:13,007 Speaker 1: often we'll be listening to someone tell a really long, detailed, 629 00:29:13,007 --> 00:29:16,167 Speaker 1: boring story and I'll be thinking to myself, how can 630 00:29:16,207 --> 00:29:19,487 Speaker 1: you not know? This is not interesting? Or I'll play 631 00:29:19,527 --> 00:29:22,687 Speaker 1: a game with myself when I'm like, I wonder if 632 00:29:22,727 --> 00:29:26,007 Speaker 1: they'll ask me a question at all in this period 633 00:29:26,047 --> 00:29:27,887 Speaker 1: of time that I see them, and do they know 634 00:29:28,847 --> 00:29:31,567 Speaker 1: or it's a perfunctory one and then as Gabby did 635 00:29:31,607 --> 00:29:35,567 Speaker 1: they get back to themselves. I do a thing when 636 00:29:35,607 --> 00:29:38,647 Speaker 1: I'm tired, particularly whole, and it's funny. I've been pulled 637 00:29:38,687 --> 00:29:41,047 Speaker 1: up on it when I'll go into interview mode because 638 00:29:41,087 --> 00:29:42,767 Speaker 1: when I'm tired and I don't want to talk because 639 00:29:42,807 --> 00:29:44,807 Speaker 1: we talk a lot on the show, I will just 640 00:29:44,847 --> 00:29:47,447 Speaker 1: ask questions and also I'm interested. But I'll often go 641 00:29:47,527 --> 00:29:50,527 Speaker 1: into interview mode, like my kids will go, this is 642 00:29:50,567 --> 00:29:54,327 Speaker 1: not no filter, and I'll catch myself doing it. But 643 00:29:55,047 --> 00:29:57,727 Speaker 1: when you ask someone a lot of questions about themselves, 644 00:29:58,647 --> 00:30:01,527 Speaker 1: they can be like, oh, you're really interested, I'll keep talking. 645 00:30:02,327 --> 00:30:04,887 Speaker 1: And so I think sometimes if you're with a monologer, 646 00:30:05,807 --> 00:30:08,287 Speaker 1: just check that you're not kicking the can down the 647 00:30:08,367 --> 00:30:10,927 Speaker 1: road you sell, and that you're not the one that's 648 00:30:11,407 --> 00:30:14,487 Speaker 1: constantly asking the questions, and just see what happens if 649 00:30:14,487 --> 00:30:16,327 Speaker 1: you stop asking questions. 650 00:30:16,407 --> 00:30:17,287 Speaker 3: Is that your strategy? 651 00:30:17,487 --> 00:30:19,687 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is, except with this one person I had 652 00:30:19,727 --> 00:30:22,727 Speaker 1: to actually because I watched them monologue to someone else 653 00:30:22,727 --> 00:30:26,247 Speaker 1: who was trying to have a conversation with them and 654 00:30:26,287 --> 00:30:29,487 Speaker 1: who I know they really love, and I just watched 655 00:30:29,567 --> 00:30:33,887 Speaker 1: this person trying to connect, throwing bids out for connection, 656 00:30:34,127 --> 00:30:36,887 Speaker 1: and this other person the monologue just kept going and 657 00:30:36,967 --> 00:30:38,887 Speaker 1: kept going and kept going and didn't ask a question, 658 00:30:38,927 --> 00:30:42,607 Speaker 1: and this other person sort of wandered off. And I 659 00:30:42,687 --> 00:30:48,207 Speaker 1: know that this person was feeling unsatisfied by their social interactions. 660 00:30:49,047 --> 00:30:52,007 Speaker 1: And I just said, you know, you didn't ask that 661 00:30:52,087 --> 00:30:54,767 Speaker 1: person a single question. And it was easy because it 662 00:30:54,807 --> 00:30:58,007 Speaker 1: wasn't me. I was just an observer. And they're like what, 663 00:30:58,407 --> 00:31:00,447 Speaker 1: and I went, yeah, they came down and they were 664 00:31:00,687 --> 00:31:03,767 Speaker 1: trying to connect with you and tell you, and they've 665 00:31:03,767 --> 00:31:06,007 Speaker 1: got all these things going on in their life, and 666 00:31:06,047 --> 00:31:09,087 Speaker 1: you just monologued about this story and this thing that 667 00:31:09,247 --> 00:31:11,567 Speaker 1: happened to you and this other thing that's going on 668 00:31:11,607 --> 00:31:13,647 Speaker 1: in your life. And it was a real missed opportunity. 669 00:31:14,007 --> 00:31:18,247 Speaker 1: And to their credit, they were mortified, and ever since 670 00:31:18,967 --> 00:31:21,847 Speaker 1: have made such an effort, and I've watched them interact 671 00:31:21,847 --> 00:31:24,447 Speaker 1: and they've done things like gone, no, I need to 672 00:31:24,447 --> 00:31:27,007 Speaker 1: ask you some questions. I want to hear about your life. 673 00:31:27,087 --> 00:31:29,727 Speaker 1: So they've like really taken it to heart, and I 674 00:31:29,727 --> 00:31:30,927 Speaker 1: think it's made a big difference. 675 00:31:31,447 --> 00:31:34,687 Speaker 3: I don't have that many monologus in my life. There's 676 00:31:34,687 --> 00:31:36,727 Speaker 3: a lot of monologuing when it comes to dating, but 677 00:31:36,807 --> 00:31:40,007 Speaker 3: in my actual life, I think what's worse and monologuing 678 00:31:40,087 --> 00:31:42,367 Speaker 3: is someone who lets you talk, but you can tell 679 00:31:42,407 --> 00:31:45,247 Speaker 3: they're just thinking about the next thing to say. Yeah, 680 00:31:45,287 --> 00:31:47,087 Speaker 3: And I'm like, at least what monologuing If you do 681 00:31:47,287 --> 00:31:49,887 Speaker 3: kind of interrupt them, they could potentially listen to what 682 00:31:49,927 --> 00:31:52,447 Speaker 3: you're saying. But when someone is one hundred percent not 683 00:31:52,567 --> 00:31:55,567 Speaker 3: listening and just wants to talk and say their next thing, 684 00:31:55,687 --> 00:31:56,967 Speaker 3: that is way we talked. 685 00:31:56,727 --> 00:31:59,447 Speaker 1: About snow globers, where they're just like waiting for a 686 00:31:59,527 --> 00:32:02,007 Speaker 1: pause to go, yeah, that happened to me, and then 687 00:32:02,087 --> 00:32:04,647 Speaker 1: show you their snow globe and something that happened. 688 00:32:04,727 --> 00:32:04,887 Speaker 4: Oh. 689 00:32:04,967 --> 00:32:09,927 Speaker 1: I find that older people often will do that generalizing, 690 00:32:10,007 --> 00:32:13,087 Speaker 1: but will want to tell long stories about their past, 691 00:32:13,127 --> 00:32:17,927 Speaker 1: often instead of asking questions to the young people around. 692 00:32:17,927 --> 00:32:20,127 Speaker 2: The thing is, though, right about you know your point 693 00:32:20,167 --> 00:32:21,887 Speaker 2: about when you sit there listening to them tell you 694 00:32:21,887 --> 00:32:23,607 Speaker 2: a story and you're like, do you know how boring 695 00:32:23,647 --> 00:32:27,567 Speaker 2: you are? How do you know that you're right? Like, 696 00:32:27,687 --> 00:32:30,967 Speaker 2: you're bored a lot MEA's boredom threshold is very low, 697 00:32:31,487 --> 00:32:34,287 Speaker 2: so it's like, oh, because it's boring to you, it 698 00:32:34,287 --> 00:32:36,127 Speaker 2: doesn't necessarily mean that it's boring. 699 00:32:36,207 --> 00:32:38,007 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'll give you an example and I never 700 00:32:38,047 --> 00:32:40,287 Speaker 1: think you're boring. I just am always like this is 701 00:32:40,287 --> 00:32:42,367 Speaker 1: a boring story, because these are usually people that I love. 702 00:32:42,887 --> 00:32:44,327 Speaker 1: Ask me a question, any question. 703 00:32:45,127 --> 00:32:46,247 Speaker 2: What did you do this morning? 704 00:32:47,087 --> 00:32:50,607 Speaker 1: Well, the alarm went off and I set my phone 705 00:32:50,607 --> 00:32:53,207 Speaker 1: to silent, and I shouldn't have because I should know, 706 00:32:53,287 --> 00:32:55,367 Speaker 1: but I had it on because in case Coco calls me. 707 00:32:55,447 --> 00:32:58,207 Speaker 1: She's in Europe, you know, I got up and into 708 00:32:58,207 --> 00:33:00,727 Speaker 1: the tea bag and it's like, no, no, just to 709 00:33:00,967 --> 00:33:05,087 Speaker 1: back edit, like, but what happened? Yeah, I don't want 710 00:33:05,127 --> 00:33:07,567 Speaker 1: to know fourteen hours or if I'm asking you a 711 00:33:07,567 --> 00:33:09,727 Speaker 1: specific thing, you know, I want to tell you something. 712 00:33:10,127 --> 00:33:11,287 Speaker 1: Just cut to the important. 713 00:33:11,447 --> 00:33:13,567 Speaker 2: Not everybody's good at telling a story, right. So this 714 00:33:13,687 --> 00:33:16,287 Speaker 2: is one of the key things about monologuers, right, because 715 00:33:16,287 --> 00:33:18,687 Speaker 2: I think we live in a very monology culture. We 716 00:33:18,807 --> 00:33:23,087 Speaker 2: have convinced ourselves that my piece to camera, my voice note, 717 00:33:23,567 --> 00:33:28,087 Speaker 2: my several swipes along Instagram carousel is really interesting. We've 718 00:33:28,127 --> 00:33:31,167 Speaker 2: moved into monologue culture. We don't like conversation anymore, we 719 00:33:31,207 --> 00:33:35,487 Speaker 2: don't like phone conversations. So I think people have decided 720 00:33:35,527 --> 00:33:38,247 Speaker 2: that monologuing is where it's at. But the problem with 721 00:33:38,527 --> 00:33:42,607 Speaker 2: IRL monologuing is you have to be a good storyteller 722 00:33:42,647 --> 00:33:45,207 Speaker 2: to do it well. And I can very clearly remember 723 00:33:45,207 --> 00:33:46,887 Speaker 2: some of the best stories I've ever been told in 724 00:33:46,887 --> 00:33:48,687 Speaker 2: my life. I don't mean in a professional setting. I 725 00:33:48,687 --> 00:33:52,047 Speaker 2: mean like a friend or someone I know at a 726 00:33:52,087 --> 00:33:54,527 Speaker 2: party or whatever telling me an amazing story and You're 727 00:33:54,567 --> 00:33:57,007 Speaker 2: just like, no, keep going, that's fricking great, right. So 728 00:33:57,407 --> 00:34:00,967 Speaker 2: it's not that monologuing has a standard rule that shires 729 00:34:00,967 --> 00:34:04,047 Speaker 2: the story because they know which bits to keep in 730 00:34:04,047 --> 00:34:04,727 Speaker 2: and which bits. 731 00:34:04,567 --> 00:34:05,247 Speaker 1: To keep out. 732 00:34:05,287 --> 00:34:08,287 Speaker 2: But not everybody has that skill, right. And the thing 733 00:34:08,367 --> 00:34:10,407 Speaker 2: is is the people who are very good at telling 734 00:34:10,487 --> 00:34:13,527 Speaker 2: stories still have stories, do you know what I mean? 735 00:34:16,127 --> 00:34:18,327 Speaker 2: I used to really like, I know this is not 736 00:34:18,447 --> 00:34:21,167 Speaker 2: everybody agrees with this, but like when my grandparents were 737 00:34:21,167 --> 00:34:23,207 Speaker 2: alive and I was little, I used to love their 738 00:34:23,207 --> 00:34:26,087 Speaker 2: stories about like the war and about what life was like, 739 00:34:26,287 --> 00:34:29,207 Speaker 2: you know, like back in the older days. And they 740 00:34:29,247 --> 00:34:33,287 Speaker 2: weren't particularly good storytellers. So sometimes you have to sift 741 00:34:33,327 --> 00:34:36,087 Speaker 2: through the boring bits to get to the good stuff. 742 00:34:36,127 --> 00:34:39,927 Speaker 2: I wonder if we've all because we're so now used 743 00:34:39,927 --> 00:34:44,447 Speaker 2: to performance and all interaction is a performance, right, that 744 00:34:44,487 --> 00:34:47,927 Speaker 2: we've lost our tolerance for like sifting through the boring 745 00:34:47,927 --> 00:34:49,327 Speaker 2: story the chaff for the wheat. 746 00:34:49,367 --> 00:34:51,047 Speaker 1: Do you know, I think you've nailed it. I think 747 00:34:51,087 --> 00:34:55,407 Speaker 1: we've lost the ability to converse in real time where 748 00:34:55,487 --> 00:34:57,687 Speaker 1: I say a bit and then you say a bit. 749 00:34:57,727 --> 00:35:00,167 Speaker 1: But if I talk for too long, I become aware 750 00:35:00,247 --> 00:35:02,127 Speaker 1: that I've talked for too long, and I'm reading your 751 00:35:02,127 --> 00:35:04,927 Speaker 1: body language and facial expressions, and I can see when 752 00:35:04,967 --> 00:35:07,527 Speaker 1: the light goes off in your eyes and you're actually 753 00:35:07,887 --> 00:35:08,687 Speaker 1: thinking about. 754 00:35:08,487 --> 00:35:11,607 Speaker 2: Something monkeys in your head. Like one of my old 755 00:35:11,647 --> 00:35:13,887 Speaker 2: friends who I haven't seen for ages actually, but her 756 00:35:14,127 --> 00:35:19,167 Speaker 2: husband is a classic monologuer. Right. Although I like him 757 00:35:19,207 --> 00:35:21,927 Speaker 2: and I've known him for a lot of years, I 758 00:35:21,967 --> 00:35:24,847 Speaker 2: would avoid catch ups where it was him as well, 759 00:35:24,847 --> 00:35:26,727 Speaker 2: because he would just take over with. 760 00:35:26,767 --> 00:35:28,727 Speaker 1: His that's the power monologuer. 761 00:35:28,327 --> 00:35:31,647 Speaker 2: Yeah, and his stories, like he had interesting ideas and 762 00:35:31,687 --> 00:35:34,047 Speaker 2: things to say, his stories where he just would talk 763 00:35:34,047 --> 00:35:35,807 Speaker 2: and talk and talk and talk and talk, And so 764 00:35:35,967 --> 00:35:38,087 Speaker 2: you would be like, Okay, if I want to catch 765 00:35:38,167 --> 00:35:40,767 Speaker 2: up with my girlfriend, he needs to not be around 766 00:35:41,087 --> 00:35:43,327 Speaker 2: because I won't get to catch up with my girlfriend. 767 00:35:43,407 --> 00:35:45,487 Speaker 2: I'll just have to listen to his monologues. But I'm 768 00:35:45,527 --> 00:35:49,527 Speaker 2: sure that he thinks that he's trying really hard to 769 00:35:49,687 --> 00:35:52,567 Speaker 2: engage and interact with his friends, you know, like his 770 00:35:52,607 --> 00:35:53,487 Speaker 2: wife's best friend. 771 00:35:53,687 --> 00:35:55,767 Speaker 1: I was just giving speeches. That's such a good point. 772 00:35:55,847 --> 00:35:58,247 Speaker 1: So the monologu as I was talking about were not 773 00:35:58,407 --> 00:36:02,847 Speaker 1: power monologuers. They were more just this isn't very interesting monologuers, 774 00:36:02,887 --> 00:36:04,967 Speaker 1: the people who weren't very good editors or very good 775 00:36:05,007 --> 00:36:08,287 Speaker 1: storytellers and couldn't work out what bits of an event 776 00:36:08,367 --> 00:36:11,607 Speaker 1: or inexperience are relevant and interesting to your audience and 777 00:36:11,647 --> 00:36:14,887 Speaker 1: which are probably best kept as inside thoughts. But a 778 00:36:14,967 --> 00:36:19,207 Speaker 1: power monologuer makes me angry because they hold everyone. If 779 00:36:19,247 --> 00:36:21,327 Speaker 1: you've been at a dinner party or if you've been 780 00:36:21,887 --> 00:36:24,567 Speaker 1: I've never known really a woman that does this. But 781 00:36:24,607 --> 00:36:27,927 Speaker 1: there's also a man of a certain age who expects 782 00:36:27,967 --> 00:36:30,287 Speaker 1: everyone to be quiet. And what was the precursor to 783 00:36:30,327 --> 00:36:33,327 Speaker 1: the power monologuer. You don't see them so much anymore, 784 00:36:33,447 --> 00:36:36,607 Speaker 1: But it's the joke teller. So it was the person 785 00:36:36,687 --> 00:36:40,007 Speaker 1: who would tell a joke. The conversation would have to 786 00:36:40,047 --> 00:36:42,927 Speaker 1: stop and everyone would have to stand quietly or whatever 787 00:36:43,207 --> 00:36:45,927 Speaker 1: and wait for the whole joke to be told and 788 00:36:45,967 --> 00:36:48,927 Speaker 1: then laugh at the end. And that is a power 789 00:36:48,967 --> 00:36:50,447 Speaker 1: mood that I absolutely hate. 790 00:36:50,567 --> 00:36:55,087 Speaker 3: I don't have experience with like a storyteller monologue. I think, 791 00:36:55,407 --> 00:36:59,047 Speaker 3: especially when going on first dates, I realized that a 792 00:36:59,087 --> 00:37:01,607 Speaker 3: lot of men don't really talk about their feelings and 793 00:37:01,647 --> 00:37:03,727 Speaker 3: what's going on in their lives with their friends, and 794 00:37:03,767 --> 00:37:06,287 Speaker 3: I think monologuing is kind of I'm going to generalize here, 795 00:37:06,287 --> 00:37:08,727 Speaker 3: but monologuing is kind of a symptom of the single 796 00:37:08,727 --> 00:37:11,527 Speaker 3: straight man. They don't have an outlet to give everything 797 00:37:11,567 --> 00:37:13,327 Speaker 3: to their friends. So when you go on a date, 798 00:37:13,407 --> 00:37:15,047 Speaker 3: and obviously on first dates, you want to know more 799 00:37:15,047 --> 00:37:17,607 Speaker 3: about the person, so you're asking them questions because no 800 00:37:17,607 --> 00:37:19,527 Speaker 3: one's ever asked them a question before. They just run 801 00:37:19,567 --> 00:37:22,607 Speaker 3: with it and keep talking and talking and talking till 802 00:37:22,607 --> 00:37:24,287 Speaker 3: the end of the day you realize that they don't 803 00:37:24,287 --> 00:37:25,927 Speaker 3: know a single thing about you. 804 00:37:26,207 --> 00:37:28,687 Speaker 1: But is that that male female thing, because I remember thinking, 805 00:37:28,887 --> 00:37:31,567 Speaker 1: I remember first reading about it in the context of dating. 806 00:37:31,567 --> 00:37:34,367 Speaker 3: That men don't ask enough questions, no, because. 807 00:37:34,047 --> 00:37:36,887 Speaker 1: They're not as in tune with the social contract of 808 00:37:37,047 --> 00:37:39,327 Speaker 1: I ask you a few questions, and then when you've 809 00:37:39,367 --> 00:37:41,887 Speaker 1: spoken for long enough, you ask me a few questions back. 810 00:37:41,887 --> 00:37:44,607 Speaker 1: And that's how it works. So they'll just be like, oh, 811 00:37:44,687 --> 00:37:46,807 Speaker 1: she thinks I'm interesting. I'll keep talking, so that she 812 00:37:46,887 --> 00:37:48,207 Speaker 1: thinks I'm even more interesting. 813 00:37:48,287 --> 00:37:50,527 Speaker 3: But then they also just sit in the silence when 814 00:37:50,527 --> 00:37:51,527 Speaker 3: you're waiting for a question. 815 00:37:51,727 --> 00:37:52,847 Speaker 1: Oh wow, it's so weird. 816 00:37:52,887 --> 00:37:56,087 Speaker 3: So I always my strategy for monologue is is I 817 00:37:56,087 --> 00:37:58,527 Speaker 3: always go not that you asked, but I also have 818 00:37:58,567 --> 00:38:04,007 Speaker 3: a sister, Oh that's gay chill, and then they get like, 819 00:38:04,007 --> 00:38:05,927 Speaker 3: oh shit, yeah that's genius. 820 00:38:05,967 --> 00:38:08,647 Speaker 2: So the best way to shut a monologuer up is 821 00:38:09,087 --> 00:38:11,607 Speaker 2: I'd be very direct, like the woman who wrote the substack, 822 00:38:11,687 --> 00:38:13,567 Speaker 2: which is like, do you realize you're not asking me 823 00:38:13,607 --> 00:38:17,407 Speaker 2: any questions? Interrupt with questions, or just throw a bomb 824 00:38:17,447 --> 00:38:19,647 Speaker 2: like MV just did, like not that you asked, but 825 00:38:20,127 --> 00:38:23,687 Speaker 2: I love it. That's it for today's show, Out Louders, 826 00:38:23,687 --> 00:38:25,847 Speaker 2: thank you so much for being with us. Thank you 827 00:38:25,887 --> 00:38:28,407 Speaker 2: to you m V for filling out, and Jesse, you've 828 00:38:28,447 --> 00:38:30,887 Speaker 2: got another show on Friday day. And then I believe 829 00:38:30,927 --> 00:38:32,527 Speaker 2: she's on our way, she's on a plane, she'll be 830 00:38:32,567 --> 00:38:34,647 Speaker 2: on a plane. By then, she will be on a plane, 831 00:38:34,847 --> 00:38:36,647 Speaker 2: thank God, with her bebby a. 832 00:38:36,647 --> 00:38:41,367 Speaker 1: Ten month old alone, because Lucas already back. So thoughts 833 00:38:41,367 --> 00:38:42,967 Speaker 1: and prayers for Jesse out Louders. 834 00:38:44,287 --> 00:38:46,807 Speaker 2: We will be back in your ears on Friday. We 835 00:38:46,927 --> 00:38:47,847 Speaker 2: cannot wait. 836 00:38:47,647 --> 00:38:49,727 Speaker 1: To talk to you. Then, Bye bye, Siya. 837 00:38:50,567 --> 00:38:53,407 Speaker 2: Shout out to any Mamma Mia subscribers listening. If you 838 00:38:53,607 --> 00:38:56,447 Speaker 2: love the show and you want to support us, subscribing 839 00:38:56,487 --> 00:38:58,887 Speaker 2: to Mamma Mia is the very best way to do it. 840 00:38:59,087 --> 00:39:00,967 Speaker 2: There's a link in the episode description