Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome.
Speaker 2: To Mamma Mia. Out loud. What women are actually talking
Speaker 2: about on Wednesday, the seventh of August.
Speaker 1: I'm Holly Wainwright, I'm me of Friedman, and.
Speaker 3: I'm Jesse Stevens. And I'm sorry I was away the
Speaker 3: other day. I was sick and I really had foma.
Speaker 3: I really wanted to be on that episode.
Speaker 2: Because it wasn't about She was happy to have missed it.
Speaker 3: Yes, that that I was happy about. But em filled
Speaker 3: in and did a brilliant job.
Speaker 2: On today's show with Jesse Stevens, things.
Speaker 1: Just got weird.
Speaker 2: How a schoolyard insult has become the most effective political
Speaker 2: strategy in the US election, and why the man who
Speaker 2: coined it is Kamala's new right hand man. Also, there's
Speaker 2: worms in the village food and a very hot man
Speaker 2: sleeping in a park. Yes, it's an expert Olympic roundup,
Speaker 2: and the truth counsel friendship theory. One of the world's
Speaker 2: richest women says she runs every big decision by three
Speaker 2: specific people and it's what you don't want to talk
Speaker 2: to them about that teaches you the most. But first,
Speaker 2: Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 3: In case you missed it, Ben Affleck has been described
Speaker 3: as the most divorced man you've ever seen, the actor who,
Speaker 3: as far as we know, is still married to Jennifer Lopez.
Speaker 3: No ring though, no ring, but sometimes ring. I went
Speaker 3: through the timeline yesterday in granular detail, and every time
Speaker 3: you like the rings off, the ring comes back on.
Speaker 1: Jalo's moved her engagement ring to her right hand, and
Speaker 1: I don't think she's wearing her wedding ring anymore now.
Speaker 2: Want This divorce has been going on now for a while,
Speaker 2: and nobody is giving us any reason to believe it
Speaker 2: is untrue.
Speaker 3: So we needed the last piece of evidence that this
Speaker 3: was true right now.
Speaker 1: If it wasn't enough that they solved their marital.
Speaker 3: Home and Ben bought a home of his own in
Speaker 3: a different on a.
Speaker 2: Different very different somehow exactly.
Speaker 1: And was not in attendance on her Bridgeston themed birthday.
Speaker 3: Past and Jaylo also canceled her summer tour to spend
Speaker 3: time with family. Why do we not?
Speaker 2: That was all the evidence we could just pull out
Speaker 2: without having done any research or.
Speaker 1: Made any notes. Literally none. I really worry about my brain. Okay, Jesse, Okay.
Speaker 3: The evidence we needed is Ben Affleck being photographed in
Speaker 3: la He was photographed, as.
Speaker 2: Maya would say, this is not a visual medium's visual medium.
Speaker 3: But I'm going to describe what he looks like. It's
Speaker 3: his haircut. I think it's called a faux hawk, which
Speaker 3: is where the sides of your hair are kind of
Speaker 3: light shaved, and then it's a bit longer on top.
Speaker 3: It's a young people's.
Speaker 1: Haird like a really severe undercut. Yeah, and it goes
Speaker 1: high up past three years.
Speaker 3: He also had aviators on a leather biker jacket that
Speaker 3: he was wearing on his motorcycle the backpack, and he
Speaker 3: also had the slim fitted jeans. One tweet red, we
Speaker 3: are reaching levels of divorced never before seen by man,
Speaker 3: and another said the male mind forty eight hours after
Speaker 3: a breakup needs to be studied. There was also an
Speaker 3: imagined conversation between him and his barber where the barber says,
Speaker 3: what'll it be and he says, I'm getting a divorce
Speaker 3: and the barber says, say no more, and he gives
Speaker 3: him that haircut.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's so like, we shouldn't be laughing about somebody's heartbreak.
Speaker 2: But it's also so funny because why are not all men,
Speaker 2: some middle aged men just so predictable. Yes, we're breaking up,
Speaker 2: I really need a faux hook. Remember when he broke
Speaker 2: up with Jen Garner and he got that back tattoo
Speaker 2: that goes all the way from his neck right down
Speaker 2: to the bottom of.
Speaker 3: It, Like, and we're all predictable. Women get haircuts too,
Speaker 3: women get post divorce haircuts. But his haircut is very
Speaker 3: I mean I've seen it on dozens of men that
Speaker 3: are walking around going I'm single, I'm on the market.
Speaker 3: I've got my jacket on.
Speaker 1: I know someone quite well who got divorced in his
Speaker 1: early thirties. Same haircut or a motorcycles, it's a playbook.
Speaker 1: I think it's like an instinctive thing, you know, how
Speaker 1: like salmon instinctively know where to swim. It's not like,
Speaker 1: and this was many years ago before social media was
Speaker 1: a thing. I think they just instinctively know they like
Speaker 1: it out a flimming pigeon or a salmon.
Speaker 3: I need a motorbike under my legs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I need a motorbike between my legs and I
Speaker 1: need a lot less hair.
Speaker 3: So this is Google search as for weird, it's up
Speaker 3: twenty two percent.
Speaker 4: My god, over the last week.
Speaker 1: Why the race for the presidential election in the US
Speaker 1: just got really weird in a good way? In case
Speaker 1: you missed it, Kamala Harris has picked her running mate.
Speaker 1: There's been a lot of contention, controversy, mystery about who
Speaker 1: she'd pick. It was between a couple of white guys,
Speaker 1: and she picked the one called Tim Walls. He is
Speaker 1: sixty years old. And if you said, Siri, show me
Speaker 1: a picture of a really kind grandpa, you would see
Speaker 1: a picture of Tim Walls.
Speaker 3: And he's not a grandpa, is he?
Speaker 1: He's not a grandpa. In fact, it's alarming for me
Speaker 1: to realize he's only a few years old.
Speaker 2: On me, I felt the same way.
Speaker 1: And I was like a grandma, So what are you know?
Speaker 2: It's interesting though, because Kamala is fifty nine and he's sixty,
Speaker 2: and you put them next to each other and it
Speaker 2: is very much like this is what sixty looks like
Speaker 2: for men and women. That's very different.
Speaker 1: They are contemporaries, but they look almost of slightly different generations.
Speaker 1: So why did she pick him. I'm so glad you
Speaker 1: asked few key reasons. The first is that he is
Speaker 1: going to be very good in appealing to Midwestern voters.
Speaker 1: So the swing states, which are the ones that in
Speaker 1: Australia we would call them marginal seats, the ones that
Speaker 1: the Democrats need to win to win government. They are
Speaker 1: rural states, Midwestern states like Pennsylvania. He is the Minnesota
Speaker 1: governor and he's very popular. Joined the army at seventeen.
Speaker 1: He was in the army for twenty four years, then
Speaker 1: he decided to become a teacher, retrained. He's been a
Speaker 1: longtime advocate for women's reproductive rights. He's also got some
Speaker 1: really great plucky dad vibes. There was a video that
Speaker 1: went viral in the last couple of weeks where he
Speaker 1: was at a state fair with his daughter. It shows
Speaker 1: him screaming on a ride called a slingshot, and then
Speaker 1: he's encouraging her to eat a corn dog and she's like, Dad,
Speaker 1: I can't, I'm a vegetarian, and he goes, we'll then
Speaker 1: have turkey. He's very funny. But the whole reason that
Speaker 1: he has shot to prominence. He went to the top
Speaker 1: of the leader board really fast. A few weeks ago,
Speaker 1: no one had even heard of him.
Speaker 3: No, I was hearing Shapiro. I was hit like a.
Speaker 2: Lot of people were saying Shapiro up to two days ago. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: because Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1: As you said, yes, he is the governor of Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1: But the reason that Tim Woles came in out of
Speaker 1: nowhere to the top of the leader board was because
Speaker 1: he did an interview where he referred to JD. Vance,
Speaker 1: the new Republican vice presidential candidate, as weird. Here is
Speaker 1: a little bit of that interview. These are weird people
Speaker 1: on the other side.
Speaker 3: They want to take books away, they want to be
Speaker 3: in your exam rooms.
Speaker 1: That's what it comes down to it.
Speaker 4: Don't you know, get sugarcoating this.
Speaker 1: These are weird ideas. Listen to them speak. So after
Speaker 1: he did that interview, because you know, they've tried lots
Speaker 1: of different words. How do you describe Donald Trump and
Speaker 1: a threat to democracy and an existential threat and JD.
Speaker 1: Vance and conflicted felon, Yeah, all of those things. But
Speaker 1: weird was just a very down home way to describe
Speaker 1: some of his behavior. Like he talked about, you know,
Speaker 1: he hugs a flag and he goes I love a
Speaker 1: flag too, but it's a bit weird, like hugging a flag.
Speaker 1: That interview went viral and it was immediately picked up
Speaker 1: by other Democrats and clearly became part of their messaging
Speaker 1: because then you heard a whole lot of other Democratic
Speaker 1: candidates and governors and surrogates for Kamala using that word weird.
Speaker 3: Well, it's just weird, and every day it comes out
Speaker 3: Vance has done something more extreme, more weird.
Speaker 4: It's not just a weird stuff that he brings, it's
Speaker 4: that this leads to weird policy.
Speaker 3: We're using this fake living room to talk to you
Speaker 3: about a super weird idea from JD.
Speaker 1: Vance. So these guys are just weird. That's where they are.
Speaker 5: So fascist depend on fear. The fascist depend on us
Speaker 5: going back.
Speaker 1: But we're not.
Speaker 5: Afraid of weird people.
Speaker 2: We were a little bit creeped out, but we're not afraid.
Speaker 1: Holly, I want to ask you what do you think
Speaker 1: about the use of the word weird because Hillary Clinton,
Speaker 1: we know, kind of ended her campaign in some ways
Speaker 1: when she described Donald Trump supporters of a basket of deplorables,
Speaker 1: and that didn't go well for her, But weird seems
Speaker 1: to have had the opposite effect for Tim Wolls and
Speaker 1: the Democrats.
Speaker 2: Well, weird plays into our current vibe, which is the
Speaker 2: brat vibe, you know, which is all very like, oh,
Speaker 2: we're all just being a bit naughty and we're all
Speaker 2: just being very informal and we're having fun. And this
Speaker 2: is the TikTok collection, et cetera.
Speaker 1: Because deplorable is a very tricky word, and it's very
Speaker 1: weird word for that.
Speaker 2: And also he is right the kind of stuff that jd.
Speaker 2: Vance is talking about, you know, people with children should
Speaker 2: get more votes, you know, like it is weird.
Speaker 1: Where's the whole story about maybe he had.
Speaker 3: Sex maybe but you know, and which he didn't, which
Speaker 3: he didn't take story.
Speaker 2: If but he did, it would be weird in that
Speaker 2: don't spread fake news. Mia. In the interview that you're
Speaker 2: talking about, what he said that was really solid.
Speaker 1: He said, you know, there's something wrong with people when
Speaker 1: they talk about freedom, freedom to be in your bedroom,
Speaker 1: freedom being your zam room, freedom to tell your kids
Speaker 1: what they can read.
Speaker 3: That stuff is weird.
Speaker 2: He's right, it is weird and it's extreme. And there's
Speaker 2: no doubt that one of the biggest weapons for progressives
Speaker 2: here is the fact that a large proportion of MAGA people.
Speaker 2: Jd Vance is one of them want America to become
Speaker 2: an extreme religious state, right of conservative Christian state, and.
Speaker 1: That is weird, so that women have no right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is a good word, right, but you know,
Speaker 2: the MEGA people think it's weird that there are people
Speaker 2: who are same sex attracted, and weird that some women
Speaker 2: want to use contraception, and weird that some people questioning
Speaker 2: their gender. The problem is, though, with weird, I really
Speaker 2: hope and I know that I'm not a highly paid
Speaker 2: democratic strategist, so what do I know. But I kind
Speaker 2: of hope that weird is a flash in the pan
Speaker 2: because is religious conviction weird? You know, is any behavior
Speaker 2: that you don't agree with or seems a bit unusual weird?
Speaker 2: You know, I would tell my kids not to call
Speaker 2: kids weird. My son gets called weird all the time,
Speaker 2: Like weird is different, weird stands out, weird is unusual.
Speaker 2: My personal feeling is about it is that it feels
Speaker 2: a bit negative and a bit name corely. But then
Speaker 2: also I'm aware that I'm being very gen x in
Speaker 2: that reading of it, because I'm sort of taking it
Speaker 2: quite seriously.
Speaker 3: No, I share that discomfort, and you just made me
Speaker 3: realize that it was because I got called weird at school,
Speaker 3: like it was an insult that was used. And there's
Speaker 3: something about that word that's still like it doesn't sit
Speaker 3: right with me. And I was thinking about what the
Speaker 3: word weird actually means, because it's a way of othering.
Speaker 3: It's a way of saying I'm normal and you're not.
Speaker 3: It's a way of saying you're not particularly bothered, like
Speaker 3: you're not ramped up, you're not losing it.
Speaker 1: And then this person isn't a threat.
Speaker 3: No, don't you think they're a bit weird?
Speaker 1: So excluding stigmatizing in a way, isn't it Jesse?
Speaker 2: Do you think that because you know how we've talked
Speaker 2: before about how the Trump attitude to politics is name calling.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're weird.
Speaker 2: Jdvans likes to talk about normal people as opposed to
Speaker 2: non normal people. And we've talked before about whether or
Speaker 2: not you've got to fight fire with fire given all
Speaker 2: the things you're saying about weird, is this just an
Speaker 2: example of you know, the Democrats are playing Trump at
Speaker 2: his own game because it does seem to have really
Speaker 2: bothered him, and nobody's never called me weird. I'm a
Speaker 2: lot of things, but weird, I'm not, and I'm up front.
Speaker 1: And he is not either.
Speaker 2: I will tell you JD is not at all.
Speaker 1: They are.
Speaker 3: It does seem to have worked, but there is a
Speaker 3: distinction between what Clinton did with deplorables and what Walse's doing.
Speaker 3: And I watched every clip I could find of him
Speaker 3: using the word weird, and you will find that he
Speaker 3: is very, very clever. JD. Vance and Donald Trump are weird.
Speaker 3: He does not refer to their supporters to the party.
Speaker 1: He's gone out of his way to say a lot
Speaker 1: of Republicans are very fine people, and very fine people
Speaker 1: he's said JD. Vance and Donald Trump. What I think
Speaker 1: is interesting about it, and I know what you're saying,
Speaker 1: and I don't think it's something it might stick around.
Speaker 1: But what I like about it, and what I think
Speaker 1: the intention was, is to be very passive aggressive in
Speaker 1: a way. That's what's the worst thing you can do
Speaker 1: to a bully is laugh at them. I understand what
Speaker 1: you mean about. If someone is in a vulnerable position
Speaker 1: like a child, or it happens at school, someone's called weird,
Speaker 1: that's different because that's punching down This isn't punching down.
Speaker 1: This is almost like the Emperor's new clothes to go.
Speaker 1: They're saying all these things. They want a band contraception,
Speaker 1: they want to ban IVF, they want to burn books,
Speaker 1: they're hugging flags, They're you know, talking about women and cats.
Speaker 1: It's a bit weird. It's weird.
Speaker 2: It's weird, yeah, very cheesy, and it is right because
Speaker 2: weird because all they've got is this.
Speaker 1: Donald Trump and Jadie Vance are all about this thrusting
Speaker 1: version of masculinity. And if you try and match that
Speaker 1: with anger, but if you just kind of go the
Speaker 1: Empress wearing no clothes.
Speaker 2: And this seems to be Kamala's vibe, right because last
Speaker 2: week when Trump gave that disastrous interview at the Association
Speaker 2: of Black Journalists and he said that Kamala used to
Speaker 2: be Indian and then she decided she was black, and
Speaker 2: like just very very incendary stuff. She took the road
Speaker 2: that you're describing me. She just kind of went same
Speaker 2: old nonsense. She didn't go this is outrageous. I'm offended.
Speaker 2: Da da da dah, which she had every right to do.
Speaker 2: So let's be honest. It seems that this is the
Speaker 2: strategy is let's laugh at them, let's mock them, let's
Speaker 2: not get too furious about them.
Speaker 1: So they're making badges for the conference make America laugh again,
Speaker 1: because I think this is the mood. I really do.
Speaker 1: And I think that there's a thing on the internet
Speaker 1: if someone attacks you with very zen response is to say,
Speaker 1: why are you so obsessed with me?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it.
Speaker 1: Just instead of going on and fighting back, you're just like, hey,
Speaker 1: are you so obsessed with me? And that's kind of
Speaker 1: what the weird thing is.
Speaker 3: What he's won as well is and I think there
Speaker 3: was probably some concern that the Harris campaign picked up
Speaker 3: a lot of momentum and was harnessed by the TikTok generation,
Speaker 3: who have an attention span of eleven seconds, and that
Speaker 3: passed very quickly. And what he managed to do that
Speaker 3: Democrats haven't managed to do in a very long time
Speaker 3: is harness the attention economy, which is also what this
Speaker 3: will be about. He is a brilliant interview like he
Speaker 3: thinks on his feet, He's not rehearsed, he's handed. He's
Speaker 3: a brilliant interview, which I think is a really good thing.
Speaker 3: The only other criticism I have is that he was
Speaker 3: at this rally or something and he was talking about JD.
Speaker 3: Vance and he said something like, I can't wait to
Speaker 3: debate him. That's if he can get up off the couch,
Speaker 3: and everyone started laughing because what he was referring to
Speaker 3: was the since deleted tweet with a fake quote from
Speaker 3: JD Vance's book that said that he performed some sexual
Speaker 3: act on a couch. When you've got the Republicans yelling
Speaker 3: about fake news and truth hangs in the balance, do
Speaker 3: we want to play this game?
Speaker 1: It was really interesting to watch that because I thought
Speaker 1: the exact same thing, and then I thought he also
Speaker 1: overegged it by going, see what I just did there,
Speaker 1: And you could see Kamla was standing in the background
Speaker 1: trying not to laugh but also shaking her head, and
Speaker 1: you just know that afterwards she'd go.
Speaker 3: Hey, nuh, wind it back, wind it back.
Speaker 1: Because even if you just said, if you can get
Speaker 1: off the couch, that would have been nod. But he
Speaker 1: should have just played it then really straight, and that
Speaker 1: would have been a nod to the people who knew.
Speaker 1: But I agree with you, Jesse. The thing is that
Speaker 1: I think that this guy authentic and genuine overused words
Speaker 1: you don't see them often in politics. But I don't
Speaker 1: think that he went I'm going to use this word.
Speaker 1: There was nothing strategic. He wasn't in the running for
Speaker 1: VP when he gave that interview and said weird, he
Speaker 1: really wasn't. He just spoke a truth, you know, spoke
Speaker 1: an unspoken thought, and he went on to develop it
Speaker 1: to say, I grew up in a Midwestern rural town,
Speaker 1: and the rules there are it's none of your business,
Speaker 1: like don't get into my kid's bedroom, and don't get
Speaker 1: into my sex life, don't get involved in my wife's
Speaker 1: health care, don't tell my daughter what contraception she can use.
Speaker 1: It's none of your business. And he really was able
Speaker 1: to articulate that on a level that Kamala Harris, as
Speaker 1: a West Coast liberal black woman, might feel a bit
Speaker 1: remote to those people. But when he said that, I
Speaker 1: think he compliments her really, really well.
Speaker 2: It'll be interesting to see because to your point, Jesse,
Speaker 2: about harnessing the attention economy, when Kamala was announced and
Speaker 2: the coconut and all of that exit and the brat,
Speaker 2: it was all organic and it's brilliant, and it seems
Speaker 2: that this has also been organic. They're weird, right, But
Speaker 2: if you're their campaign people, you are waiting for the
Speaker 2: next one of those moments.
Speaker 1: Right, because you want that next spike.
Speaker 2: And the danger is if you start trying to engineer them, yes,
Speaker 2: because as soon as you start trying to engineer them, Okay,
Speaker 2: we had coconut that was great, organic, and then we've
Speaker 2: got weird, what's next, That's where you can begin to
Speaker 2: really fall over your feet. So I hope they've got
Speaker 2: the smartest people around them who are going to be like,
Speaker 2: let's not try too.
Speaker 4: Hard to welcome the next vice president of the United States.
Speaker 1: Every Tuesday and Thursday, we drop you Mum and Me
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Speaker 1: daily dose ab out Loud and a big thank you
Speaker 1: to everyone who is already subscribed. Oh good vibes, great fight,
Speaker 1: what a.
Speaker 3: Great time friends. All is not well in the Olympic village.
Speaker 3: And I worry. I've been worrying, and I'll tell you why.
Speaker 3: A British swimmer named Adam Peaty said this week athletes
Speaker 3: have been finding worms in their food. Oh dear, he said,
Speaker 3: I like my fish and people are finding worms in
Speaker 3: the fish. It's just not good enough the standard. We're
Speaker 3: looking at the best of the best in the world,
Speaker 3: and we're not feeding them the best. Why would they
Speaker 3: be worms in the fish. I don't know a lot
Speaker 3: about food, but I.
Speaker 1: Don't know how you get worm in a fish. But
Speaker 1: I was thinking maybe, because you know how I mentioned
Speaker 1: that they've been trying to have more plant based, not
Speaker 1: maybe worms compost because some people sea worms as a
Speaker 1: source of protein. But I don't think that's what this is.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to give best intentions. I'm benifiting of the
Speaker 1: doubt really hard here for the Olympic village.
Speaker 3: Apparently the quality and quantity of the food isn't up
Speaker 3: to scratch. Sixty percent of all meals are meatless, with
Speaker 3: one third plant based. Pete says that there aren't enough
Speaker 3: protein options and the cues are out of control, with
Speaker 3: athletes waiting thirty minutes for a meal.
Speaker 1: Have they found the muffins, yes, muffins. Have they been awakated?
Speaker 3: It's interesting because in the pool they were saying like
Speaker 3: there weren't that many world records. It apparently it was
Speaker 3: like the depth of the pool, they said, But you know,
Speaker 3: maybe it's the worms too. Maybe people aren't their best.
Speaker 3: Apparently they also keep running out of eggs and chicken.
Speaker 3: And I know nothing about anything, but I feel like
Speaker 3: eggs and chicken are important for an athlete. Holly, your mate,
Speaker 3: the Italian swimmer isn't loving the village either, is he.
Speaker 2: Have you met Thomas Chechon. I have. He became viral
Speaker 2: this week purely on the basis of being really hot
Speaker 2: and as the hot men correspondent around here after one
Speaker 2: day's clean pal segment, which I enjoyed way too much.
Speaker 2: I don't I don't want to be creepy, like that
Speaker 2: would be weird. He's also like young enough to be.
Speaker 2: But there is a very handsome Italian swimmer Thomas.
Speaker 1: Everybody's going, yeah, oh my goodness, that's a whole other story.
Speaker 2: He is all over everything because he's very good looking,
Speaker 2: casually shows. I mean, all swimmers show their apps and
Speaker 2: their abs are amazing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's because I have to swim in a swimming pool.
Speaker 2: But it's true. I've got this kind of lived in
Speaker 2: slight circles under the eyes, scruffy vibe, and everybody loves
Speaker 2: him anyway, Everybody loves him and then he was photographed
Speaker 2: sleeping in a park after complaining about the conditions at
Speaker 2: the village. We did discuss this that apparently the beds
Speaker 2: are too hard to have sex on, which is a
Speaker 2: problem that we're as hot as Thomas. No, I'm not
Speaker 2: making any assumptions about what he's doing there, but a
Speaker 2: rower took a video of him sleeping on a white
Speaker 2: towel under a tree, and he did say that he
Speaker 2: usually sleeps in the afternoon because he's Italian, right, and
Speaker 2: that's Jillie, what you do. But he's struggling to rest
Speaker 2: in the Olympic village, so he's just heading out and sleeping.
Speaker 1: As a form of hot protest.
Speaker 2: He says there's no air conditioning in the village, it's hot,
Speaker 2: and the food is bad, as per yes story. So
Speaker 2: now he's just out there. And the thing that I
Speaker 2: like to imagine about this is that all the people
Speaker 2: who saw that footage are just like patrolling the parks
Speaker 2: of Paris hoping to stumble across a sleeping Italian swimmer
Speaker 2: under a tree.
Speaker 1: Was he just a random park or was it within
Speaker 1: the village.
Speaker 2: I think it was a random park.
Speaker 3: It was because it just seemed like a random person
Speaker 3: photographed him and it was just he was.
Speaker 2: Just being really beautiful, lying on the floor asleep. It's
Speaker 2: very vulnerable.
Speaker 1: He likes gardening like you.
Speaker 2: He wanted to be close to the plan he.
Speaker 3: Did on the Olympic village. There's another problem. Tokyo in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty one was known as the COVID Olympics. But
Speaker 3: Paris is where the virus has actually reaked a lot
Speaker 3: of having it.
Speaker 1: Do you know, out of like the I'd sort of
Speaker 1: forgotten that there even was an Olympics, but it was
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one. Tokyo is determined to have it.
Speaker 1: There were all the bio things. There were no spectators
Speaker 1: yet to put on your own medal, everyone had to wear.
Speaker 2: Masks to remember. We kept saying before it, we kept going,
Speaker 2: they're going to cancel it. Of course they're going to
Speaker 2: cancel it. How can they have the Olympics?
Speaker 1: But they did, and out of like the five thousand
Speaker 1: athletes that were there, there were only about fifty cases
Speaker 1: or not even that many, and they were sent to
Speaker 1: isolate in hospital and then they were sent home. So
Speaker 1: in terms of bio hazards, it really wasn't one. They
Speaker 1: managed it. Incredibly well well.
Speaker 3: At least three members of the Australian swim team have
Speaker 3: tested positive. Larnie Pallister had to pull out of the
Speaker 3: fifteen hundred meters. A few athletes we know have competed
Speaker 3: with the virus. One is a breaststroker and he was
Speaker 3: expected to medal. And it's clear that it's affecting performance
Speaker 3: that people who are competing with COVID are not at.
Speaker 1: Except for the Australian gold medalist in BMX who had
Speaker 1: COVID when she won.
Speaker 3: To god, that's what I was going to say. Sayah Sakabara,
Speaker 3: who won, as you say, Australia's first gold medal in BMX,
Speaker 3: she had COVID at the start of her competition week
Speaker 3: and then went on to bloody winner gold medal. And
Speaker 3: five players in our water polo team also tested positive.
Speaker 3: I thought it was interesting that the Olympics don't have
Speaker 3: any rules about mandatory testing or you can't compete like
Speaker 3: you're totally fine if you want to. As far as
Speaker 3: I know, if you're a water polo player who has it,
Speaker 3: which is quite a contact sport, you're good to go
Speaker 3: and play, which is why I think it is going
Speaker 3: rampant and for some village. Yeah, for some, I guess
Speaker 3: symptoms are going to be not great. And then for
Speaker 3: others they have anti virals and stuff on hand, so
Speaker 3: they are recovering quite quickly. But I just keep thinking,
Speaker 3: imagine that you've trained for four years and then you
Speaker 3: get a positive just before you're fifteen hundred meter swim.
Speaker 2: It's also setting the bar a bit high for those
Speaker 2: of us who get sick and just want to go
Speaker 2: to bed and don't want to be too flippant about
Speaker 2: COVID because we know that for some people it's very
Speaker 2: serious and you know all of those things you've got
Speaker 2: to avoid infection. I think one of our gold relay
Speaker 2: swimmers just had COVID and I was like, that's not fair, because.
Speaker 3: Guys, it's really important to rest, and they're like, I'll
Speaker 3: just do my real life.
Speaker 1: I know, you know what. The most exciting news though,
Speaker 1: coming out of Paris overnight, apart from the sighting of
Speaker 1: the swimmer in the park, was Australian Arisa True, who
Speaker 1: won Golden skateboarding. She's just fourteen and she's our youngest
Speaker 1: ever gold medalist. Here's a little interview that she did afterwards.
Speaker 1: I'm saying little because she sounds like a child, which
Speaker 1: she is, and it's just an extraordinary achievement. Have a listen.
Speaker 5: Started skateboarding when I was like eight years old, and
Speaker 5: it was because, like I surfed a lot, and I
Speaker 5: still do surf so much now and I have time.
Speaker 5: But in winter it just got too cold, so my
Speaker 5: dad took me to the skate park and then I
Speaker 5: just started skating, and I just loved it. From them,
Speaker 5: it was just lots of fun and challenging and just
Speaker 5: something to do after school. Like when I started skateboarding,
Speaker 5: there wasn't a lot of girl skaters around my age,
Speaker 5: so I just like skated with like most of the boys.
Speaker 1: More thank you to Rye for that audio. And then
Speaker 1: she's more girls came and started skating when she was
Speaker 1: about ten. What an inspiration And how many girls are
Speaker 1: going to be skateboarding now? How many boys? But like,
Speaker 1: very very impressive. She achieved a top scoring run of
Speaker 1: ninety three point one point eight in the final. Undescribed
Speaker 1: the experience as super cool. Interestingly, so you get three runs.
Speaker 1: She fell on her first run and she just kept going.
Speaker 1: It's so funny watching the skateboarding. I was watching it
Speaker 1: last night. Every sport has a very different esthetic. As
Speaker 1: you would say, ole, the competitors tend to look the
Speaker 1: same way, which is very distinctive tribal. So with the skaters,
Speaker 1: they all wear these really cool clothes. Most of all
Speaker 1: the girls have really long straight hair because it's kind
Speaker 1: of like surfing culture. They're just really good.
Speaker 3: I turned it on once there was a guy with
Speaker 3: backwards cap. He just fell off his skateboard for fifteen minutes,
Speaker 3: and I was like, I could watch.
Speaker 1: This A lot of the skate with headphones or AirPods
Speaker 1: in and listened to music really loudly when they do it.
Speaker 1: Same with the BMX riders. Really interesting.
Speaker 3: You are still interested in the Olympics and you can't
Speaker 3: get enough. Can I just do a quick pug for
Speaker 3: this week's episode of Canceled, which is all about the Olympics,
Speaker 3: is about all the sex, It's about the wedspot, It's
Speaker 3: about what is and isn't allowed, the things that have
Speaker 3: been canceled. It's a lot of fun. We'll link to
Speaker 3: that now show notes before we go to our third segment.
Speaker 3: Are you too aware that Claara and I personally giving
Speaker 3: away a holiday to Turkey.
Speaker 1: Stop lying that feels like too much work for you.
Speaker 2: You're really not okay, someone else?
Speaker 1: Can we have it?
Speaker 3: Okay? So well you two can. Are you subscribers, yes, okay,
Speaker 3: well then you can CLAIREA and I as part of
Speaker 3: Lazy Girl Giveaways. I must say there are clever, organized
Speaker 3: people who do a lot of the work behind the scenes,
Speaker 3: but Claire and I are really enthusiastic about it. They
Speaker 3: have organized a tripped Turkey with Explore Worldwide. It is
Speaker 3: valued over nine thousand dollars amazing and if you win,
Speaker 3: then you get to go with a friend. I love
Speaker 3: how it says friend. Nowhere does it say partner. Everyone's
Speaker 3: like no, no, no, she's kay.
Speaker 1: Threat.
Speaker 3: The whole thing is planned for you, so you don't
Speaker 3: have to do any of the organizing.
Speaker 1: It's greatful. Lazy Girls.
Speaker 3: Have you guys been to Turkey?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: I have.
Speaker 3: I beautiful loved it. It's one of my favorite places.
Speaker 3: I can't wait to go back. Entering couldn't be easier.
Speaker 3: If you are a mum and maya subscriber, then you
Speaker 3: are already in the running. And if you are not yet,
Speaker 3: then I have a code for you. It is Vaca
Speaker 3: twenty and you get twenty percent off a yearly subscription.
Speaker 3: The prize is drawn on the twentieth August, which is
Speaker 3: what a couple of weeks or something. A link to
Speaker 3: enter and the discount code is in the show notes.
Speaker 3: Teas and c's a play.
Speaker 2: So you've got a big decision to make or you've
Speaker 2: got major life news to share.
Speaker 1: Who do you talk to about it?
Speaker 2: Look, if you're Melinda Gates, you sit down with Oprah
Speaker 2: Winfrey and Gail kingan ab chat. This story I came
Speaker 2: across it on Instagram, this little snippet of an interview
Speaker 2: that Melinda Gates, wo's one of the richest women in
Speaker 2: the world, used to be married to Bill Gates, and
Speaker 2: we've talked about her a lot, and about how she's
Speaker 2: a billionaire who puts some money where her mouth is
Speaker 2: funds a lot of really important causes around the world. Anyway,
Speaker 2: she sat down with Oprah and Gail for like a
Speaker 2: kind of nauseating but also awesome chat about life. And
Speaker 2: one of the things she said was about her girlfriends
Speaker 2: who she listens to when she's got a big decision
Speaker 2: to make.
Speaker 4: Here's what she said, I've been lucky enough incredibly lucky
Speaker 4: to have three female friends now for over thirty years.
Speaker 4: Wow wow three two of them over thirty five years.
Speaker 4: One of them lost her husband in our thirties. He
Speaker 4: was my good friend. We walk every every Monday morning,
Speaker 4: so if you're in town, you walk. They are my
Speaker 4: truth counsel. Whenever I'm going to make a really hard
Speaker 4: decision or make a big transition, I know I have
Speaker 4: to have the courage to tell them.
Speaker 1: They're your kitchen cabinet.
Speaker 4: There are my kitchen cabinet, and they're honest with me.
Speaker 2: Yes, and Melinda, if it's something that you don't want
Speaker 2: to tell them, because I've had things I'm not going
Speaker 2: to tell her.
Speaker 1: Because I know what she's going to say, then you
Speaker 1: know that's wrong. I really need to tell you.
Speaker 2: Yes, there's been times I go, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: tell her because I know what he's going to say.
Speaker 1: That's when you should know that.
Speaker 2: That's not the right decision.
Speaker 1: Time you have to tell me.
Speaker 2: I recognize this immediately because I'm always sharing my deepest
Speaker 2: thoughts with Oprah and Gail as well. It's just they
Speaker 2: don't talk back to me. It's the news or the
Speaker 2: decision that you don't want to tell some of your
Speaker 2: closest friends about because you know what they'll say and
Speaker 2: what that then says about what you think you should do.
Speaker 2: Did it resonate with you, Miya? Who's in your kitchen cabinet?
Speaker 1: I had a slightly different take in that sometimes I'll
Speaker 1: be wrestling with something and I'll have to think about
Speaker 1: which of my friends I tell because I kind of
Speaker 1: know their point.
Speaker 3: Of view, and you want them to agree with you.
Speaker 3: For example, if no, or you know their expertise, maybe.
Speaker 1: No, it's almost the opposite of that. It's because I
Speaker 1: don't necessarily want them to agree with me. But I
Speaker 1: know this is why therapy is so good, because I
Speaker 1: know they'll bring their point of view to it, which
Speaker 1: sometimes you really want. But other times, like for example,
Speaker 1: if you're going through a rough patch in your relationship
Speaker 1: and I talk to my divorced friends, I don't want
Speaker 1: them to be or like, oh, well, you know you
Speaker 1: should not that they necessarily say that, but I know
Speaker 1: that their lens on marriage is pretty negative in many cases,
Speaker 1: so I find that. And then also there's something about
Speaker 1: there are certain things that don't feel real until you
Speaker 1: tell people. Feels like a yeah, once I say it
Speaker 1: out loud to these important people who know me really well,
Speaker 1: I can't unsay it.
Speaker 3: The idea that not being able to tell them, or
Speaker 3: being apprehensive to tell them is some kind of test
Speaker 3: for the quality of a decision, I think is very true.
Speaker 1: I do too.
Speaker 3: I often have either omitted or lie to people in
Speaker 3: my life about a decision that I made because, and
Speaker 3: specifically these decisions are around they think I'm being taken
Speaker 3: advantage of. They think that I'm being exploited, and that
Speaker 3: someone's asking for something ridiculous. I can't say no. I'm
Speaker 3: ashamed of how I can't say no. So I go
Speaker 3: and do this which I shouldn't do, and then someone
Speaker 3: will say you didn't do that, did you, And I'll.
Speaker 1: Go no, no, no, no, no, I didn't do.
Speaker 3: That because I don't. I don't want the compounding shame
Speaker 3: that I already feel. I also had it with relationships,
Speaker 3: like I would be with someone who treated me really badly.
Speaker 3: We weren't in a relationship according to them, but I
Speaker 3: would be seeing them they treated me really badly, and
Speaker 3: then they might send a message and go, do you
Speaker 3: want to hang out on Saturday night? And I will
Speaker 3: look at that and go, yes, I'm not telling a
Speaker 3: soul that I'm hanging out with them, And in my head,
Speaker 3: I'm going, I'll wait for things to get better and
Speaker 3: great until we're basically like normal again, until I have
Speaker 3: the guts to tell my friends, which inevitably didn't happen.
Speaker 3: They just hurt me in new and insulting ways and
Speaker 3: then and no one to tell.
Speaker 1: You know the other reason that's a red flag And
Speaker 1: you're saying that has made me suddenly remember when I
Speaker 1: was in an emotionally abusive relationship, I hid that from everybody.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I hid it because I wanted to protect him.
Speaker 1: This is why abusive relationships are so insidious, because the
Speaker 1: first step to them is isolating you from people, so that, weirdly,
Speaker 1: I didn't want the people who were close to me
Speaker 1: to think badly of him. Yeah, that's how it messed
Speaker 1: with my yese.
Speaker 3: But I also think there's another element, which is you
Speaker 3: don't want them to think badly of you because you're
Speaker 3: embarrassed because some part of you knows that you shouldn't
Speaker 3: be accepting this.
Speaker 1: And if someone else told you that story about them,
Speaker 1: you'd say get out, Yeah, like.
Speaker 3: What's wrong with you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because what this is really about is who you
Speaker 2: can be really honest with, right and ideally you've got
Speaker 2: someone in your life who you could tell anything, and
Speaker 2: they could tell you their honest opinion and it would
Speaker 2: be all right, you know what I mean. So if
Speaker 2: you go, I'm going back to him, you know, in
Speaker 2: that example, and I've been there too, one hundred percent,
Speaker 2: and they go, well, you shouldn't do that, and you go, well,
Speaker 2: I'm doing it anyway. But you know we're all going
Speaker 2: to get through this, do you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: They'll still be there next time you turn up at
Speaker 2: their door crying and needing cake or whatever. I think
Speaker 2: it's a good filter, what Melinda says, for when you're
Speaker 2: wrestling with a decision and you think, how will this
Speaker 2: feel when I tell people? And then if you've got
Speaker 2: the people in your head who love you and who
Speaker 2: have your back, and that's really important, like because as
Speaker 2: you say, me, and we know, friends different filters. And
Speaker 2: I've got some friends who are great for work advice,
Speaker 2: some friends who are great for a relationship advice, some
Speaker 2: friends who are great for parenting advice, and so you
Speaker 2: might select them that way. But you've got some people
Speaker 2: in your life who you know you can trust their
Speaker 2: judgment one hundred percent. They don't have baggage. They're not
Speaker 2: going to try and steer you in a direction that
Speaker 2: will make them feel better about themselves or whatever. But
Speaker 2: if you imagine how will it feel when I say
Speaker 2: this out loud and you'd I know, you'll be embarrassed,
Speaker 2: it's a really good flag.
Speaker 1: When I eventually did tell my friends and my parents
Speaker 1: about this relationship, it was after two years, and it
Speaker 1: was when I needed some help to go, not some
Speaker 1: actual physical help, but I also wanted to burn the
Speaker 1: bridge behind me a little bit. And I knew that
Speaker 1: once I told them, they couldn't unknow what I had
Speaker 1: told them, and so they would. I can't say they
Speaker 1: wouldn't let me go back, but it would be very
Speaker 1: difficult for me to go back. So I almost did
Speaker 1: it as a way to bolster myself and immunize myself
Speaker 1: against that decision. I have a group chat of girlfriends
Speaker 1: back to what you said, Jesse, about when your friends
Speaker 1: know you're doing the wrong thing. We all have trouble
Speaker 1: with saying yes to things that we don't want to do,
Speaker 1: like you say, right, So in this group, we all
Speaker 1: bolster each other and we have to confess when we've
Speaker 1: agreed to something. We have to preemptively confess wh agreed
Speaker 1: to something.
Speaker 3: That's funny, Yeah, good idea.
Speaker 1: And we all hold ourself accountable. And then we also
Speaker 1: so we don't wobble when we're asked to do something
Speaker 1: that we don't want to do we can't do, We'll
Speaker 1: put it to the group and then the group will go,
Speaker 1: you cannot, and so it's like okay, and the group
Speaker 1: will help us formulate the response.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I had something the other day that I
Speaker 3: was asked to do something that was so manipulative. My
Speaker 3: instinct would have been to just I don't know, do it.
Speaker 3: Luca was this. He just went oh no, and like
Speaker 3: just had the answer so quickly. Yeah, And I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: that's the decision made for me. But I also think
Speaker 3: that there's something about the walking part. Yeah, walking with
Speaker 3: friends is absolutely ace. Yeah, it's very different to sitting
Speaker 3: and having a coffee or having a really intense meal.
Speaker 3: You can feel quite confronting then, yeah, but when you walk,
Speaker 3: you don't have to look each other in the eye
Speaker 3: and you can meander go in different directions. There's silence,
Speaker 3: there's things to look at. I just think it's way
Speaker 3: better context sometimes to have heavy conversations.
Speaker 2: I'm just imagining Melinda and her girlfriends for a start.
Speaker 2: I want to know who they are, who she walks
Speaker 2: with every Monday.
Speaker 3: And if they if she talked to them about Bill,
Speaker 3: she must.
Speaker 2: I absolutely loved how she goes if you're in town
Speaker 2: because like properly rich people, they could be in one
Speaker 2: of their many residentss no, no, but she is. So
Speaker 2: if you're in town, you're walking, and I want to
Speaker 2: know the kind of things that she needs to tell
Speaker 2: them about. I want to give a billion dollars to
Speaker 2: Harry and Megan.
Speaker 1: No no, no, no no no, no, no no, don't do that.
Speaker 1: I'm about trying to eradicate malaria in Africa.
Speaker 3: So great, that's a good idea.
Speaker 1: We're here.
Speaker 2: I want to know who's in out Louder's kitchen cabinet, Like,
Speaker 2: what's the criteria for it? Because, as I say, I
Speaker 2: think one of my criteria for real honesty is you
Speaker 2: have a friend who you can be really honest with.
Speaker 2: But you know that's because they'll always be there for you, right,
Speaker 2: That's very important. If they're going to get offended. If
Speaker 2: you do the opposite of what they say, then they
Speaker 2: can't be in the out Louders.
Speaker 1: On our subscriber episode yesterday, I spoke quite candidly about
Speaker 1: my revelations around ADHD and food. It relates to my
Speaker 1: quest for a new lunch. It's about food hyperfixation. It's
Speaker 1: clearly sparked a massive chord. The out Louders Facebook group
Speaker 1: has gone off, a lot of people saying it was
Speaker 1: in a harm over for them or telling their own stories.
Speaker 1: We will put a link in the show notes if
Speaker 1: you want to have a listen to that episode, I
Speaker 1: highly recommend it.
Speaker 2: Out Louder stop telling me I watch to have for lunch.
Speaker 2: It doesn't work that way.
Speaker 1: She has to.
Speaker 2: Imprint on her next lunch.
Speaker 1: By herself, Sarah Juny.
Speaker 2: She has to stumble into the next bread goood of
Speaker 2: her own, free will, true English muffins. That is all
Speaker 2: we've got time for today are massive. Thank you to
Speaker 2: all of you out Louders for listening to our show
Speaker 2: today and every day, and to our five those teams
Speaker 2: are putting it together. We're going to be back in.
Speaker 1: Your ears tomorrow.
Speaker 3: Bye bye.
Speaker 2: Shout out to any Mamma Mia subscribers listening. If you
Speaker 2: love the show and you want to support us, subscribing
Speaker 2: to Mamma Mia is the very best way to do it.
Speaker 2: There's a link in the episode description