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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mumma Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and Waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 3: Hey Cookie Friends, Taylor here dropping into your feed for

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Speaker 3: another listening reco You're about to hear an exclusive interview

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Speaker 3: that you won't want to miss if you're a fan

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Speaker 3: of true crime pods or if you're just fascinated by

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Speaker 3: the people behind them. For nine years, the anonymous host

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Speaker 3: of case File has been the voice in millions of

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Speaker 3: listeners ears while keeping his identity completely secret. Known only

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Speaker 3: as Casey to fans, his podcast has become one of

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Speaker 3: Australia's biggest audio exports, with over eight hundred million downloads worldwide.

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Speaker 3: Our friends over at True Crime Conversations managed to secure

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Speaker 3: this rare sit down with the man himself. In their chat,

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Speaker 3: you'll discover how case fel began, hear his thoughts on

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Speaker 3: balancing anonymity with his growing fame, and learn which cases

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Speaker 3: have impacted him the most over the years. So, without

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Speaker 3: further delay, here's Jemma Bath from True Crime comp Conversations

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Speaker 3: interviewing the anonymous host of case File.

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Speaker 1: To some, he's known as the Anonymous Host others have

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Speaker 1: nicknamed him Casey. If you're listening to this podcast and

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Speaker 1: you're a fan of true crime, you'll probably recognize this voice.

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Speaker 2: Asking's indicating they'd applied the patches in the lead up

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Speaker 2: to their deaths. Stranger Still, the evidence suggests that the

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Speaker 2: couple had ingested that the.

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Speaker 1: Host of Australian true crime podcast case File has kept

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Speaker 1: his identity secret for nine years, and so far that's

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Speaker 1: been working pretty well for him. Casey might not let

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Speaker 1: us tell you his real name, but that doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: we can't tell you his story. I'm Jemma Bass and

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Speaker 1: this is True Crime Conversations Amom of Me, a podcast

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Speaker 1: exploring the world's most notorious crimes by speaking to the

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Speaker 1: people who know the most about them. We've got a

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Speaker 1: bit of a different episode for you today. Case File

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Speaker 1: is what you would call one of our direct competitors.

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Speaker 1: We both work in the Australian true crime podcasting space

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Speaker 1: and we're regularly up against them in the various podcasting charts.

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Speaker 1: They're wildly popular, often number one, with people all over

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Speaker 1: the world attracted to the podcast's distinct, no frills approach

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Speaker 1: to storytelling. It all started with one typical Aussie bloke

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Speaker 1: as he calls himself in his spare room, deciding to

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Speaker 1: give podcasting a go while recovering from a sporting injury. Now,

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Speaker 1: the anonymous host and his team are in the years

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Speaker 1: of more than eight hundred thousand people every month. He

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Speaker 1: doesn't really do interviews, you'll only find one or two

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Speaker 1: on the internet, but we managed to convince him to

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Speaker 1: come into MoMA mea HQ for an exclusive sit down chat.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why. Meeting him in real life, he

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Speaker 1: wasn't not what I was expecting, probably more clean cut

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Speaker 1: than the descriptor he gives of being a typical Aussie bloke,

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Speaker 1: but maybe that's just me being too stereotypical. The feedback

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Speaker 1: from my colleagues who sneak to peak is that he's

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Speaker 1: younger than they imagined. Make of that what you will.

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Speaker 1: And when I say sneak to peak, several of my

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Speaker 1: colleagues not only Hobbard but chased this man down the

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Speaker 1: halls of our office. Honestly, there was more excitement in

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Speaker 1: here than when we have some Hollywood celebs grace our halls.

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Speaker 1: Please enjoy my chat with the anonymous host of Case File.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to start with some quick fire questions getting

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Speaker 1: to know you questions. I will accept no comment if

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Speaker 1: I have to.

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Speaker 2: Okay, sounds good.

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Speaker 1: Favorite sport, rugby league, favorite food.

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Speaker 2: Toy.

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Speaker 1: That was a toughie. You had to think about that.

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Speaker 2: It was Indian maybe.

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Speaker 1: Favorite song and or artist.

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Speaker 2: Favorite song Flowers and You by touche A Moore, very specific.

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Speaker 2: It's getting quite the play at the moment. It's not new,

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Speaker 2: it's actually probably ten years old now. But good song.

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Speaker 1: Favorite thing to do on the weekend, golf, favorite place

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Speaker 1: in Australia, Blue Mountains, m TV.

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Speaker 2: Show cobra Quai what Yeah, just because it's so tacky

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Speaker 2: and cheesy, but they really lean into it. And I

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Speaker 2: was a fan of the Karadikid movies when I was young,

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Speaker 2: so it's a bit of a nostalgia things like it's

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Speaker 2: bad but it's good bad.

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Speaker 1: If you could have dinner with anyone alive or dead,

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Speaker 1: who would it be? Kirk Cobaine Ooh, I'm hearing a music.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, big music fan? Yeah, well, or actually Kirk Cobain

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Speaker 2: or Cliff Burton original Metallica basis.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Well, there we go. I feel like I've learned

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Speaker 1: more about you in the last few minutes than I

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Speaker 1: can find on the entire Internet, and I'm not actually

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Speaker 1: allowed to tell listeners your name. It's been nine years

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Speaker 1: of you making case file. Have you ever considered just

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Speaker 1: revealing who you are? Or has it become part of

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Speaker 1: the brand?

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Speaker 2: Not really, No, I guess it has become part of it,

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Speaker 2: but inadvertently. It's kind of like an accident because it

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Speaker 2: was never planned. It was never supposed to be a thing,

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Speaker 2: the anonymous hosting, but it just kind of took off

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Speaker 2: into a life of its own. I guess we have

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Speaker 2: started branching out. I've done a few live appearances in

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Speaker 2: recent times. There's no photo policy, and I still don't

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Speaker 2: reveal myself as such as more just the case, false

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Speaker 2: story and that sort of thing. I'm comfortable with that.

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Speaker 2: That's been fine, but I don't think I'll ever be

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Speaker 2: a personality, so to speak.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's very fun trying to look at what people

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Speaker 1: have kind of found out about you. Is that fun

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Speaker 1: to watch people trying to work it out?

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Speaker 2: I did get a little bit of a kick out

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Speaker 2: of it, sort of initially. I haven't looked at it

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Speaker 2: for a few years now, but there were some weird

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Speaker 2: and wild theories there are out there. I'm like, how

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Speaker 2: do people even come up with that? That is like

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Speaker 2: completely made up? Yeah, they stayed it like it's just

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Speaker 2: so matter of fact. It's eye opening.

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Speaker 1: Actually, well fans, is it fans that have nicknamed you Casey?

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Speaker 2: Yes? That came from the listeners. So just that came

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Speaker 2: off the back of the anonymous host thing. People are like, well,

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Speaker 2: who is this person? What's going on? And I can't

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Speaker 2: remember if it was a Reddit thread or a Facebook

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Speaker 2: group maybe, but it's one of those, and listeners just

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Speaker 2: started using Casey and that sort of took off.

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Speaker 1: It's probably more catchy to say than anonymous host, so

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Speaker 1: I can see.

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Speaker 2: Why that's a bit of a mouthful an anonymous host.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't really.

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Speaker 1: But you've taken on Casey as kind of like the

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Speaker 1: identity as well. You've got an Instagram handle, is that

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Speaker 1: you Casey?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? That's me. Yeah. For photography, bad photography mind you

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Speaker 2: on the iPhone is a bit of a hobby of mine,

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Speaker 2: particularly live music and stuff. So it's just like a

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Speaker 2: just something I like to do in a downtime, play

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Speaker 2: around with a few photos and stuff. I thought, ah,

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Speaker 2: I'm not as well put them out there, I guess

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Speaker 2: and adopt the name yeah and just lean into the

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Speaker 2: name YEP.

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Speaker 1: Take me back to the start. How did you find

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Speaker 1: yourself sitting down and starting a podcast?

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Speaker 2: So it's something that I'd wanted to do for a

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Speaker 2: little while, a few years. I'd say I was a

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Speaker 2: pretty early adopter of podcasts.

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Speaker 1: So it was twenty sixteen, right.

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Speaker 2: That's when case Fole started. But I've been listening to

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Speaker 2: podcasts since I think it's like two thousand and eight

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Speaker 2: something like that. So my housemate at the time put

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Speaker 2: me onto them. I'd never heard of them, and leaning

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Speaker 2: back into that music theme, I discovered Alternative Press had

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Speaker 2: a podcast and it was just long form interviews with

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Speaker 2: a lot of the bands that I liked. I thought

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Speaker 2: it was really cool because up until that point, there'd

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Speaker 2: never really been anything like that to get insight into artists.

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Speaker 2: It was a snippet in a magazine or a little

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Speaker 2: bit here or there, but to get this really long

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Speaker 2: form conversation. I was immediately drawn in, loved it, and

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Speaker 2: so I'd been a fan for a few years and

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Speaker 2: that sort of branched out into other podcasts after that,

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Speaker 2: and it was always in my mind, I thought this'd

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Speaker 2: be cool to do, and I played around with a

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Speaker 2: few ideas, maybe a rugby league one, maybe a music one.

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Speaker 2: I started looking into music pretty heavily, but obviously a

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Speaker 2: nightmare because you can't play music, podcast licensing, all that

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Speaker 2: sort of stuff. So I wasn't really sure how to

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Speaker 2: approach that. And I'd always been a consumer, I guess

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Speaker 2: of true crime from a young age. I remember back

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Speaker 2: I would have been like ten. I was babysat by

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Speaker 2: my auntie a lot back then, and she had this

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Speaker 2: whole shelf full of true crime magazines. I forget the

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Speaker 2: name of it, but it was like a weekly one

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Speaker 2: available at the newsagents magazine. Yeah, so every week one

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Speaker 2: a new one would come out at the magazine and

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Speaker 2: it was like in long form on one case, and

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Speaker 2: she had a whole shelf of them. So it was

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Speaker 2: probably way too young to be reading about the Yorkshire

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Speaker 2: Ripper and other such cases. But so from a young age,

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Speaker 2: and I remember always having an interest in the human

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Speaker 2: side of it, was like, what causes it? How does

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Speaker 2: this happen? Even from such a young age, you know.

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Speaker 2: I don't think I was throwing around terms like nature

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Speaker 2: verse nurture back then, but essentially, That's what I was

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Speaker 2: wondering at that time, like how does this happen? And

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Speaker 2: it was it wasn't like a lifelong thing, you know,

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Speaker 2: I'd sort of in and out of it. A book

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Speaker 2: would come along. I think one of the first books

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Speaker 2: I read was Helter Skelter at true Crime Books that is.

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Speaker 2: And then there was ABC had a like a tele

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Speaker 2: dramatized based on true events called Blue Murder.

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Speaker 1: Yeah I remember that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I got right into that and tried to

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Speaker 2: find every book that I could on that case and

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Speaker 2: the players that were involved in that. So I've always

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Speaker 2: had an interest in it. And so around this time,

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Speaker 2: Cereal had been out for I think a few years

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Speaker 2: by this point, but I was a late adopter to Cereal,

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Speaker 2: and Making a Murderer was big at that time as well.

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Speaker 2: So true crime was sort of back bubbling bubbling, and

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Speaker 2: it just occurred to me just because I'd always had

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Speaker 2: from a young age and interest in it. I thought,

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Speaker 2: I wonder if that is something that would work on

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Speaker 2: a podcast, and I started researching. So this is twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 2: hard to imagine, but a very different landscape. Back then.

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Speaker 2: There was hardly any true crime podcasts very different to.

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Speaker 1: Today, especially in Australia.

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Speaker 2: I'm guessing I don't think there were any in Australia.

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Speaker 2: I could be wrong. There might have been something that

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Speaker 2: I just didn't find. I'm not saying case f I

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Speaker 2: was the first, but the handful that I did find

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Speaker 2: were a lot more formatted around that multiple hosts, round

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Speaker 2: table discussion format. There was obviously serial, the documentary style,

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Speaker 2: and then there was another one or two like that

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Speaker 2: that would play nine to one one calls and interview

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Speaker 2: clips and things like that. Now, at that time, I

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Speaker 2: was heavily influenced by a podcast called Hardcore History by

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Speaker 2: Dan Carlin. What I found so fascinating about that podcast

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Speaker 2: was the in depth storytelling by a single narrator. So

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Speaker 2: up until that point I'd only ever heard like interview

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Speaker 2: style podcasts. I thought that's what podcasts were. Well, there

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Speaker 2: was Serial that was more documentary style, but I'd never

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Speaker 2: really heard anything like Hardcore History, which was just one voice,

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Speaker 2: no clips, know, nothing, just his voice for like five

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Speaker 2: hours telling a story something complex, like a complex historical event,

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Speaker 2: and it was so compelling. I thought that just got

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Speaker 2: my mind ticking over. I was like, it showed me

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Speaker 2: that was possible, And when I was trying to come

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Speaker 2: up with the format and then looking what was out

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Speaker 2: there with true crime, I saw I couldn't find anything

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Speaker 2: out there like that, and so I just borrowed copied

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Speaker 2: inspired by whatever you want to say, Dan Carlin's hardcore

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Speaker 2: history into true crime.

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Speaker 1: It just goes to show that sometimes it's the simplest

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Speaker 1: ideas that end up being gold, because it really is

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Speaker 1: just your voice for an hour, sometimes an hour and

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Speaker 1: a half. There's no other audio apart from like a

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Speaker 1: bit of a music bed sometimes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so there is a music bed. Very rarely do

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Speaker 2: we play like interrogation clips or things like that. We

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Speaker 2: have done, but it's pretty rare that that all happened.

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Speaker 2: So usually it's just my voice.

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Speaker 1: Yep, you're listening to true crime conversations with me, Jemma Bath.

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Speaker 1: I'm speaking with the anonymous host of case File. Up next,

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Speaker 1: we go back to the start, the making of the

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Speaker 1: very first episode of case File. So take me through

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Speaker 1: recording that first episode. Where are you? What does it

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Speaker 1: look like? Do you have a mic? Do you have

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Speaker 1: a setup?

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Speaker 2: It was bad, It was very bad. I had no

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Speaker 2: idea what I was doing from a technical standpoint. One

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Speaker 2: mention of the word one. There is enough essentials down

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Speaker 2: the spine of those who remember the case that dominated

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Speaker 2: the television reports, radio airwaves and print media of the day.

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Speaker 2: One of my hobbies is I played guitar bass guitar

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Speaker 2: at home, and I had a little interface that I

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Speaker 2: could record myself on garage band on my Mac and

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Speaker 2: so on. That interface, which was designed to plug a

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Speaker 2: guitar in it also had like this little mike smaller

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Speaker 2: than the size of a five cent piece on it.

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Speaker 2: I thought, oh, yeah, that'll do. So I just plugged

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Speaker 2: that in to the laptop. It was sitting on my

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Speaker 2: desk nowhere in my mouth over there somewhere, and I

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Speaker 2: just started talking, did what I could on garage band

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Speaker 2: with my limited knowledge, and then released it. It sounds awful,

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Speaker 2: but so what I'm very thankful for in those early

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Speaker 2: days we got some good constructive feedback in that, look,

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Speaker 2: this content is pretty good, but this sounds awful. Can

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Speaker 2: you get someone to do something with your audio? I

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Speaker 2: thought that's probably fair enough, so I advertised for an

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Speaker 2: audio producer on a freelance website. Yeah, things up work,

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Speaker 2: I think it was, And it was hard to write

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Speaker 2: that job the scriptum because I didn't know what I

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Speaker 2: was asking for, because I had no knowledge of what

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Speaker 2: I was doing. So I put together something and probably

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Speaker 2: twenty to thirty people applied, and so I thought the

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Speaker 2: best way to work this out was I just had

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Speaker 2: a one minute snippet from an episode and the job

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Speaker 2: description was fixed. This just show me what you can do, basically,

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Speaker 2: and then I'll listened to it. And there was one standout,

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Speaker 2: which was Mike Megus, who is still the current case

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Speaker 2: for a producer to this day. Yeah, nine years on.

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Speaker 2: So he was one of the applicants. I listened to

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Speaker 2: his snippet head and shoulders above anyone else. Then I

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Speaker 2: looked at his resume. Worked at Pinewood Studios in the UK,

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Speaker 2: worked on this Star Wars movie, worked on this Disney movie.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, dear, no, no wonder. It sounds so good,

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Speaker 2: but I can't afford this. But I messaged him and

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Speaker 2: we got chatting and he had actually just left Pinewood

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Speaker 2: Studios and was coming out as a freelancer. He hadn't

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Speaker 2: worked with podcasts before, so he was keen to just

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Speaker 2: try it and dip his toes into it, get experience

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Speaker 2: with podcasts, and he gave me a very favorable rate.

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Speaker 1: So thank you, Mike. So you found him at a

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Speaker 1: good time, a good time. How many podcasts in were

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Speaker 1: you hiring Mike?

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Speaker 3: Was?

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Speaker 2: Episode seven was the first one he worked on.

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Speaker 1: And by that point, did you have an audience? What

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Speaker 1: did your audience look like in those early episodes.

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Speaker 2: I remember my goal when I released the first episode

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Speaker 2: was to get to one hundred, one hundred downloads, one

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Speaker 2: hundred downloads, and that happened in twenty four hours, and

294
00:16:38,334 --> 00:16:40,134
Speaker 2: so by the end of the first week it was

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Speaker 2: about one thousand, and it sort of slowly, just it

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Speaker 2: sort of came in blocks. So by six months we

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Speaker 2: were averaging fifty thousand plus an episode. Then by the

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Speaker 2: end of the first year it was two hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifty thousand an episode, and then before I knew it

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Speaker 2: into the second year was a million plus. It just

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Speaker 2: was like stages. It was very It almost didn't seem

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Speaker 2: real because there was no promotion. There was nothing say how.

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Speaker 1: Did you, like, did you just go on to one

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Speaker 1: of the platforms and release it? Did you advertise it

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Speaker 1: on social media?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: How did you get it out there?

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Speaker 2: It was I believe the first hosting platform was SoundCloud actually,

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Speaker 2: so I put it on SoundCloud and through there they

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Speaker 2: had an RSS capability, So it went out to Apple

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Speaker 2: and all the everywhere that you can get podcasts, set

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Speaker 2: up a Facebook page and it just grew, It just grew.

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Speaker 2: It was just word of mouth.

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Speaker 1: What was the first episode on do you remember?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? The first episode was the Wonder Beach Murders.

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Speaker 1: So a really infamous one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, infamous Australian one. And I guess I covered that

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Speaker 2: one because it was a case that I'd heard a

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Speaker 2: lot about growing up. It was sort of almost mythical

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Speaker 2: in a way, the way it was spoken about an

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Speaker 2: urban legend of not an urban legend, obviously it's through

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Speaker 2: a case, but the way it was spoken about growing up,

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Speaker 2: it was almost like that, and I realized I knew

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Speaker 2: nothing about it, so I thought that was a good

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Speaker 2: place to start. Just as this wasn't planned, This wasn't

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Speaker 2: supposed to go to an audience. This was a project

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Speaker 2: that I was doing while I was off work injured,

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Speaker 2: so it was literally just to fill in the time

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Speaker 2: until I went back to work. So I didn't go crazy.

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Speaker 2: Because this was my third serious rehab from an injury.

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Speaker 2: In quick succession. Okay, and that can be a pretty

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Speaker 2: dark and lonely time, especially for someone who likes to

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Speaker 2: play sport, keep fit active. It's almost sort of part

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Speaker 2: of my identity. So being stuck through the rehab process

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Speaker 2: it was pretty tough. That third one was a pretty

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Speaker 2: serious injury too. So I'd been wanting to start a

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Speaker 2: podcast for a few years. I thought, well, this is

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Speaker 2: my chance. And yeah, none of this was planned. I

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Speaker 2: thought I'd maybe do three.

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Speaker 1: Episodes as your podcast started to grow. I know you're

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Speaker 1: anonymous to the world, but your loved they would have

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Speaker 1: known that you were starting a podcast. What did they

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Speaker 1: think about it? All?

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Speaker 2: Not many. I kept it pretty much well on the

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Speaker 2: down low. I told a few friends and they kind

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Speaker 2: of just laughed at it and said, thought, that's stupid.

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Speaker 2: What are you doing. What are you doing that for? Basically,

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Speaker 2: you know, in a friendly banter tight way, I guess,

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I kept it pretty well on the down low,

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Speaker 2: just something that I just did, put my head down

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Speaker 2: and just kept putting it out there. No one I

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Speaker 2: worked with knew about it.

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Speaker 1: So you ended up going back to work and you

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Speaker 1: were doing this on the side.

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Speaker 2: Yep, yep. So I went back to eventually got back

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Speaker 2: to work, and yeah, just on the days off and

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00:19:53,014 --> 00:19:56,534
Speaker 2: or after work even, Yeah, kept working on case file

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Speaker 2: and it kept growing and growing and growing. Eventually I

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Speaker 2: realized that I needed help, yep, so we got our

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Speaker 2: first researcher and writer to assist, and yeah, from there,

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Speaker 2: the team has just gradually grown. And yeah, now we

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Speaker 2: have two full time audio producers, three full time researchers, writers,

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00:20:19,934 --> 00:20:21,774
Speaker 2: and additional freelancers as well.

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00:20:21,894 --> 00:20:27,454
Speaker 1: Wow, prior to hiring a researcher to obviously help you

365
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Speaker 1: write those scripts because they're long, they're detailed, how much

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Speaker 1: work were you putting into that script? Because it's it's

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Speaker 1: hard to get that amount of detail, and like, if

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Speaker 1: you get anything wrong, people are going to pick up

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Speaker 1: on it. Is it ours?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it was a non stop It was literally

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Speaker 2: I didn't have anything else in life. I'd go to

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Speaker 2: work and I'd come home and like I'd work shift work,

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Speaker 2: So sometimes after a night shift, I'd literally just not

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00:20:58,774 --> 00:21:04,854
Speaker 2: sleep because it was that full on. So, yeah, it

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00:21:04,934 --> 00:21:08,254
Speaker 2: was a lot a lot of work. There's still a

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Speaker 2: lot of work now, but obviously it's much smoother in

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00:21:11,214 --> 00:21:14,734
Speaker 2: operation with having such a talented team. Working on it now.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, back then it was pretty full long.

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Speaker 1: Given it's your baby, though, it's your you know, case

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Speaker 1: file is your child. Do you struggle to give it

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Speaker 1: to other people? Are you very close to it still

382
00:21:28,294 --> 00:21:30,014
Speaker 1: in terms of the writing of those scripts and the

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Speaker 1: research and how the process goes.

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Speaker 2: No, I've got a lot of faith in the team.

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Speaker 2: So it's once it's been very fortunate just to find

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Speaker 2: such talented and hard working people who I trust. So

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00:21:41,774 --> 00:21:44,054
Speaker 2: once these people have my trust, that's I'm happy to

388
00:21:44,054 --> 00:21:48,214
Speaker 2: step away. And so the writing and research team now

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Speaker 2: is fully led by women. All the rids of researchers

390
00:21:52,054 --> 00:21:55,894
Speaker 2: are women. The head writer, Millie is in charge of

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00:21:55,934 --> 00:21:59,974
Speaker 2: all the cases, what we're covering, what's the release schedule,

392
00:22:00,054 --> 00:22:03,894
Speaker 2: all of that. Mike's fully in charge of the production

393
00:22:03,974 --> 00:22:07,254
Speaker 2: side of it, the audio production, what music goes on,

394
00:22:07,334 --> 00:22:11,614
Speaker 2: and sort of the audio production elements. So yeah, and

395
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Speaker 2: I have full trust in the whole team to do

396
00:22:15,134 --> 00:22:16,094
Speaker 2: that because.

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Speaker 1: This is no longer well and truly no longer your

398
00:22:18,454 --> 00:22:21,934
Speaker 1: side hustle. This is your job. Right when were you

399
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Speaker 1: able to kind of be like, Okay, goodbye, former career,

400
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Speaker 1: I'm doing this.

401
00:22:27,774 --> 00:22:31,054
Speaker 2: So Case Fall was released in episode one in January

402
00:22:31,134 --> 00:22:34,374
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen. It was the end of twenty seventeen where

403
00:22:34,414 --> 00:22:38,094
Speaker 2: I took leave without pay from my job for a

404
00:22:38,214 --> 00:22:41,454
Speaker 2: year just to I was very on the fence and

405
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Speaker 2: i'ming and ah ring, and I don't know what to

406
00:22:43,934 --> 00:22:47,654
Speaker 2: do this. So I thought I'd take the year leave

407
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Speaker 2: without pay. And that year went so quick it's unbelievable.

408
00:22:51,814 --> 00:22:54,534
Speaker 2: It was almost like I blinked and then works ringing me,

409
00:22:55,174 --> 00:22:59,214
Speaker 2: are you coming back? And I still wasn't sure at

410
00:22:59,254 --> 00:23:02,934
Speaker 2: that stage. I requested another six months and they said, nah,

411
00:23:03,494 --> 00:23:07,094
Speaker 2: either coming back or you're leaving, And so ultimately I

412
00:23:07,174 --> 00:23:10,094
Speaker 2: just decided to leave and try it full time. Yeah,

413
00:23:10,254 --> 00:23:11,974
Speaker 2: so still able to do it. Now?

414
00:23:12,974 --> 00:23:15,374
Speaker 1: What were you sure about? What made you think so hard?

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Speaker 1: Did you love your former career?

416
00:23:19,014 --> 00:23:21,054
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say that. It was just more stable, I

417
00:23:21,054 --> 00:23:26,574
Speaker 2: guess so because it was it's the unknown a podcast,

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00:23:26,654 --> 00:23:29,454
Speaker 2: so I don't know, especially back then in two thousand

419
00:23:29,454 --> 00:23:33,934
Speaker 2: and seventeen, it was just it was very much outside

420
00:23:33,974 --> 00:23:37,014
Speaker 2: of my comfort zone, I guess, and I just wasn't

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00:23:37,054 --> 00:23:39,054
Speaker 2: sure about it. It was like, ah, this is a

422
00:23:39,054 --> 00:23:43,654
Speaker 2: big risk and pressure, but it was good. It was

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Speaker 2: the best decision I made.

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Speaker 1: This is a bit of a nerdy, behind the scenes question,

425
00:23:47,414 --> 00:23:50,854
Speaker 1: but it's pretty common knowledge that advertisers get a bit

426
00:23:50,894 --> 00:23:53,574
Speaker 1: scared of true crime as a genre because we talk

427
00:23:53,614 --> 00:23:59,374
Speaker 1: about murder, blood gore, you know, often deeply harrowing content.

428
00:24:00,054 --> 00:24:04,974
Speaker 1: Has that been a challenge for you in trying to monetize.

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Speaker 2: It has been relayed back to me a little bit.

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Speaker 2: But from what I've picked up by the years, that

431
00:24:10,574 --> 00:24:13,734
Speaker 2: is a very much Australian thing, right, not so much

432
00:24:13,734 --> 00:24:17,614
Speaker 2: in the US. And we're very fortunate where we have

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00:24:17,734 --> 00:24:22,614
Speaker 2: such a big audience in the US. It was actually

434
00:24:22,614 --> 00:24:25,734
Speaker 2: half our audience for a number of years was US based.

435
00:24:25,774 --> 00:24:28,414
Speaker 2: It's okay, it's sort of come back a little bit now.

436
00:24:28,454 --> 00:24:32,214
Speaker 2: I think it's even Australia thirty five percent Australia thirty

437
00:24:32,214 --> 00:24:35,734
Speaker 2: five percent US roughly. So we've always had that big

438
00:24:35,854 --> 00:24:40,934
Speaker 2: US audience and the US advertisers don't have that same viewpoint.

439
00:24:41,494 --> 00:24:46,334
Speaker 1: I'm interested to know, like male female split for your podcast,

440
00:24:46,334 --> 00:24:48,054
Speaker 1: do you have a lot of Is it mainly women?

441
00:24:48,134 --> 00:24:48,774
Speaker 1: Is it mainly men?

442
00:24:49,094 --> 00:24:52,094
Speaker 2: I believe it's seventy thirty.

443
00:24:52,214 --> 00:24:56,054
Speaker 1: Female, seventy percent female, yes, wow.

444
00:24:56,534 --> 00:24:58,174
Speaker 2: I mean I don't know how accurate that is. I

445
00:24:58,214 --> 00:25:00,174
Speaker 2: don't know how they measure that, but that's the stats

446
00:25:00,174 --> 00:25:03,134
Speaker 2: that come up on our dashboard. Yep, yeah, it was

447
00:25:03,174 --> 00:25:04,934
Speaker 2: seventy seventy thirty.

448
00:25:05,134 --> 00:25:07,414
Speaker 1: Because we're a bit skewed obviously, we're a women's media

449
00:25:07,454 --> 00:25:11,254
Speaker 1: company doing a podcast, but we have the most male

450
00:25:11,374 --> 00:25:13,574
Speaker 1: listeners of all the podcasts on our network.

451
00:25:13,974 --> 00:25:15,774
Speaker 2: Oh, because a lot of.

452
00:25:15,694 --> 00:25:18,454
Speaker 1: Men don't listen to our other podcast but they listen

453
00:25:18,494 --> 00:25:21,454
Speaker 1: to us. So that's why I'm so curious to hear it,

454
00:25:21,454 --> 00:25:23,934
Speaker 1: because I do hear that it's women mainly that like

455
00:25:24,014 --> 00:25:25,734
Speaker 1: to listen to true crime podcasts.

456
00:25:25,974 --> 00:25:29,934
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's certainly the case for us. The live show

457
00:25:29,974 --> 00:25:34,054
Speaker 2: that we did in Australia in November in Melbourne, that

458
00:25:34,134 --> 00:25:38,534
Speaker 2: was that was probably ninety plus women in the audience.

459
00:25:39,774 --> 00:25:44,614
Speaker 2: So yeah, very much skewed towards mostly female listeners.

460
00:25:45,774 --> 00:25:49,334
Speaker 1: Fans of case File. The og might not realize, but

461
00:25:49,814 --> 00:25:53,294
Speaker 1: you have about, if I'm correct, twenty one other podcasts

462
00:25:53,614 --> 00:25:57,574
Speaker 1: under kind of the banner of Case File presents smaller

463
00:25:58,534 --> 00:26:00,654
Speaker 1: you know, like the Easy Street Murders. You've got like

464
00:26:00,694 --> 00:26:04,934
Speaker 1: a kind of series on that particular case. How did

465
00:26:04,974 --> 00:26:07,614
Speaker 1: that come about in terms of like branching out and

466
00:26:07,654 --> 00:26:08,094
Speaker 1: doing that.

467
00:26:08,574 --> 00:26:11,254
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's something think that I had thought about

468
00:26:11,294 --> 00:26:15,134
Speaker 2: pretty early on. Once case fol started getting successful, I

469
00:26:15,214 --> 00:26:18,534
Speaker 2: was really interested. As much as my vision for case

470
00:26:18,534 --> 00:26:21,094
Speaker 2: fil was the style that we do now, I also

471
00:26:21,374 --> 00:26:24,494
Speaker 2: obviously really like Cereal and that style as well, and

472
00:26:24,574 --> 00:26:26,974
Speaker 2: I was interested in trying to do some of that

473
00:26:27,014 --> 00:26:30,614
Speaker 2: long form, investigative, deep dive stuff. And so that's basically

474
00:26:30,614 --> 00:26:33,054
Speaker 2: how it came about. The Case File presents idea, let's

475
00:26:33,494 --> 00:26:36,614
Speaker 2: give a platform to other people to tell their stories.

476
00:26:36,654 --> 00:26:39,614
Speaker 2: So you know, we have like Vicki Petratus, who's done

477
00:26:39,614 --> 00:26:44,534
Speaker 2: a number well known true crime author journalists, Pi's whoever

478
00:26:44,574 --> 00:26:47,294
Speaker 2: sort of has a story, and we're able to provide

479
00:26:47,334 --> 00:26:50,934
Speaker 2: that platform, give them an audience to elevate their stories.

480
00:26:51,494 --> 00:26:53,694
Speaker 1: And do you work really closely with those podcasts?

481
00:26:53,734 --> 00:26:56,374
Speaker 2: Depends on the show, okay, it just it depends on

482
00:26:56,374 --> 00:26:58,294
Speaker 2: the show, depends on the creator. Some people are like,

483
00:26:58,494 --> 00:27:00,934
Speaker 2: leave me alone, I'll send you when I'm done. And

484
00:27:00,934 --> 00:27:03,094
Speaker 2: I'm happy with that because I've obviously put the I

485
00:27:03,134 --> 00:27:06,894
Speaker 2: trust them enough to offer them the opportunity, so I

486
00:27:06,934 --> 00:27:09,214
Speaker 2: believe that they can do it. But other people want

487
00:27:09,214 --> 00:27:11,534
Speaker 2: a more approach and can you help me outit this?

488
00:27:11,574 --> 00:27:13,614
Speaker 2: And what do you think of this, and so it

489
00:27:13,694 --> 00:27:16,014
Speaker 2: just depends on the show. I'm happy to be as

490
00:27:16,094 --> 00:27:19,094
Speaker 2: involved or as uninvolved as they want me to be.

491
00:27:20,054 --> 00:27:21,614
Speaker 1: And this is news to me. But I found out

492
00:27:21,614 --> 00:27:26,054
Speaker 1: today that case File has a game. Yes, so you

493
00:27:26,094 --> 00:27:28,254
Speaker 1: can play case File board game.

494
00:27:28,254 --> 00:27:31,934
Speaker 2: It's a board game. Yeah. So Goliath, the board game company,

495
00:27:31,974 --> 00:27:34,334
Speaker 2: reached out to us and wanted to do a game,

496
00:27:34,414 --> 00:27:37,254
Speaker 2: and we were a bit unsure about that. Obviously had

497
00:27:37,254 --> 00:27:40,574
Speaker 2: to just see what they had in mind. But obviously

498
00:27:40,574 --> 00:27:44,374
Speaker 2: it's a completely fictional storyline, and you know, we were

499
00:27:44,374 --> 00:27:47,334
Speaker 2: happy with what they came up with. And yeah, so

500
00:27:47,374 --> 00:27:50,894
Speaker 2: that's They've just released a version two, so they must

501
00:27:50,934 --> 00:27:53,614
Speaker 2: be happy enough with our version one. Went. Version two

502
00:27:53,694 --> 00:27:56,134
Speaker 2: is only available in the US at this time.

503
00:27:56,214 --> 00:28:01,574
Speaker 1: Though, What's your lens? Every podcast has like a bit

504
00:28:01,574 --> 00:28:04,734
Speaker 1: of a lens as to how they pick a story

505
00:28:04,934 --> 00:28:07,334
Speaker 1: or a case that they're going to cover. Do you

506
00:28:07,454 --> 00:28:09,134
Speaker 1: have a way to pick?

507
00:28:09,654 --> 00:28:15,374
Speaker 2: No one lens, I would say, other than we don't

508
00:28:15,414 --> 00:28:19,654
Speaker 2: do a case just because it's gruesome or to cover

509
00:28:19,694 --> 00:28:22,254
Speaker 2: the gore or you know, big gratudus or anything like that.

510
00:28:22,254 --> 00:28:27,214
Speaker 2: There's got to be a reason for it. I'm personally

511
00:28:27,254 --> 00:28:31,094
Speaker 2: close to unsolved cases so I like covering those and

512
00:28:31,094 --> 00:28:34,054
Speaker 2: giving those a voice. But there's reasons to cover other

513
00:28:34,174 --> 00:28:41,094
Speaker 2: stories as well, you know, the societal impacts, justice system issues,

514
00:28:41,134 --> 00:28:46,734
Speaker 2: wrongful convictions, problems with police investigations, voices who were ignored,

515
00:28:46,814 --> 00:28:51,774
Speaker 2: under represented community. There's many, many different reasons. It just

516
00:28:51,814 --> 00:28:54,134
Speaker 2: depends on the case. Yeah, but generally there has to

517
00:28:54,174 --> 00:28:57,294
Speaker 2: be a reason. Is some sort of forensic element that's

518
00:28:57,374 --> 00:29:01,614
Speaker 2: interesting to put out there, or the genetic genealogy stuff

519
00:29:01,614 --> 00:29:04,174
Speaker 2: that's become big in recent years, that sort of thing.

520
00:29:04,854 --> 00:29:09,254
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you find that there are certain kind of

521
00:29:09,254 --> 00:29:12,854
Speaker 1: style that your audience prefers. I'll give you an example

522
00:29:12,854 --> 00:29:15,134
Speaker 1: from our side. Whenever we do an episode about a cult,

523
00:29:15,934 --> 00:29:19,094
Speaker 1: it goes really well. Okay, do you have kind of

524
00:29:19,174 --> 00:29:21,774
Speaker 1: episodes that you know are going to go well before

525
00:29:21,774 --> 00:29:22,894
Speaker 1: you've even put them out?

526
00:29:23,614 --> 00:29:29,534
Speaker 2: Not really, We're pretty each episode is pretty on par

527
00:29:29,694 --> 00:29:33,374
Speaker 2: with another episode. Yeah, they all do pretty well. So

528
00:29:34,094 --> 00:29:37,334
Speaker 2: we don't really have an insight into this particular case.

529
00:29:38,494 --> 00:29:41,854
Speaker 2: We'll do better than this particular case. Nothing like that

530
00:29:41,854 --> 00:29:44,094
Speaker 2: that doesn't come that doesn't factor into the decision.

531
00:29:44,134 --> 00:29:47,574
Speaker 1: Meaning, are there any episodes I know you've done over

532
00:29:47,614 --> 00:29:50,454
Speaker 1: three hundred, but that you're particularly proud of.

533
00:29:52,054 --> 00:29:54,294
Speaker 2: But the ones that stand out to me would be

534
00:29:54,334 --> 00:30:00,174
Speaker 2: one like the unsolved murder of Britney Phillips, which is

535
00:30:00,214 --> 00:30:04,334
Speaker 2: a US case I touched upon earlier that unsolved cases

536
00:30:04,654 --> 00:30:09,134
Speaker 2: are the ones that are closest to me. And Maggie Zingman,

537
00:30:09,174 --> 00:30:12,294
Speaker 2: who is and his mother, came across her story in

538
00:30:12,334 --> 00:30:16,574
Speaker 2: that she couldn't get any coverage for her daughter's unsolved

539
00:30:16,694 --> 00:30:20,534
Speaker 2: murder that happened in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and so she's been

540
00:30:20,574 --> 00:30:25,294
Speaker 2: driving around for fifteen eighteen years whatever it was at

541
00:30:25,294 --> 00:30:28,814
Speaker 2: the time when we actually covered the case. She's got

542
00:30:28,814 --> 00:30:31,734
Speaker 2: her car decked out in like a rap with all

543
00:30:31,774 --> 00:30:35,174
Speaker 2: the details of her daughter's crime and just driving around.

544
00:30:35,254 --> 00:30:39,614
Speaker 2: She's been to every state in the continental US multiple times,

545
00:30:39,734 --> 00:30:42,134
Speaker 2: just driving around. She calls it caravan to catch a killer,

546
00:30:42,254 --> 00:30:45,974
Speaker 2: just raising awareness. Just you never know someone might know

547
00:30:46,054 --> 00:30:50,294
Speaker 2: something somewhere. And despite that, she was unable to get

548
00:30:50,334 --> 00:30:54,134
Speaker 2: any sort of national coverage or anything. So we were

549
00:30:54,134 --> 00:30:56,814
Speaker 2: put in touch and we were able to cover that

550
00:30:56,814 --> 00:31:00,014
Speaker 2: story on case file. I forget when that was released.

551
00:31:00,054 --> 00:31:01,494
Speaker 2: It was a few years ago now, but to this

552
00:31:01,574 --> 00:31:04,934
Speaker 2: day Maggie will still email me and say she still

553
00:31:04,934 --> 00:31:07,814
Speaker 2: gets people emailing her because they've heard the case file

554
00:31:07,854 --> 00:31:12,054
Speaker 2: episode and there's been no sort of groundbreaking tips at

555
00:31:12,054 --> 00:31:14,214
Speaker 2: this point, but there's been a few things here and there,

556
00:31:14,254 --> 00:31:17,094
Speaker 2: and she's just so appreciative of that coverage. So to me,

557
00:31:17,294 --> 00:31:20,614
Speaker 2: that's something very worthwhile.

558
00:31:21,094 --> 00:31:23,694
Speaker 1: I find it so interesting that you worked closely with

559
00:31:23,974 --> 00:31:27,534
Speaker 1: a family member to create that script. I'm guessing do

560
00:31:27,574 --> 00:31:30,974
Speaker 1: you do that often? Do you have family members or

561
00:31:31,014 --> 00:31:34,254
Speaker 1: people that were close to the crime involved in the

562
00:31:34,294 --> 00:31:35,534
Speaker 1: crafting of the episode?

563
00:31:35,894 --> 00:31:38,734
Speaker 2: Yeah, not every episode, but it does definitely happen. And

564
00:31:38,974 --> 00:31:43,174
Speaker 2: I guess because we have that single storyteller style, we

565
00:31:43,214 --> 00:31:45,654
Speaker 2: don't include interview clips that might not be overly apparent

566
00:31:46,054 --> 00:31:50,374
Speaker 2: that we do that, but it does happen. Yeah, you

567
00:31:50,454 --> 00:31:54,894
Speaker 2: know often we'll have. I mean, at this point we get, unfortunately,

568
00:31:54,894 --> 00:31:58,894
Speaker 2: way more emails than we could ever get to know

569
00:31:59,014 --> 00:32:02,414
Speaker 2: from family members or advocates or friends or family who

570
00:32:02,454 --> 00:32:05,774
Speaker 2: are requesting us to cover cases. I wish I could

571
00:32:06,054 --> 00:32:08,974
Speaker 2: get to all of them, but it's just not possible

572
00:32:09,014 --> 00:32:09,494
Speaker 2: at this point.

573
00:32:10,414 --> 00:32:13,814
Speaker 1: Are there any stories that haunt you? Obviously every story

574
00:32:13,894 --> 00:32:15,534
Speaker 1: is usually horrible.

575
00:32:16,774 --> 00:32:20,294
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean all the unsolved ones,

576
00:32:20,414 --> 00:32:22,214
Speaker 2: I mean they all haunt you. They will have an

577
00:32:22,254 --> 00:32:26,734
Speaker 2: effect at some level. The unsolved ones where we work

578
00:32:26,774 --> 00:32:32,894
Speaker 2: with family are particularly harder than others. I would say, yeah,

579
00:32:33,534 --> 00:32:35,214
Speaker 2: the Britney Phillips one I just touched on. I was

580
00:32:35,254 --> 00:32:37,374
Speaker 2: lucky enough to meet Maggie in person last year at

581
00:32:37,374 --> 00:32:39,574
Speaker 2: Crime Con for the first time, so that was really

582
00:32:39,614 --> 00:32:42,734
Speaker 2: good to meet her in person. The series that I

583
00:32:42,774 --> 00:32:45,494
Speaker 2: released last year on the Case File Presents platform Missing

584
00:32:45,614 --> 00:32:48,694
Speaker 2: Neam that I that took me over four years to

585
00:32:48,734 --> 00:32:53,214
Speaker 2: put together that series, So obviously that four years that

586
00:32:53,254 --> 00:32:54,974
Speaker 2: had an effect. Yep.

587
00:32:55,614 --> 00:32:57,934
Speaker 1: It's so interesting because like at the start of the chat,

588
00:32:58,094 --> 00:33:00,454
Speaker 1: you were talking about, you know, seeing the books in

589
00:33:00,494 --> 00:33:04,334
Speaker 1: your auntie's bookcase and being like, oh yeah, true crime

590
00:33:04,854 --> 00:33:08,414
Speaker 1: and now it's you live breathe talk about it every day.

591
00:33:10,014 --> 00:33:11,254
Speaker 1: Does that have an effect on you?

592
00:33:12,854 --> 00:33:16,774
Speaker 2: I guess it does. Obviously has because I can't consume

593
00:33:16,894 --> 00:33:19,734
Speaker 2: any true crime stuff anymore outside of what's required for work.

594
00:33:20,334 --> 00:33:23,294
Speaker 2: So people might be talking about their latest Netflix series

595
00:33:23,654 --> 00:33:26,214
Speaker 2: or whatever. I haven't watched any of them. I've got

596
00:33:26,214 --> 00:33:28,814
Speaker 2: no idea. It's just not something that I can do

597
00:33:29,654 --> 00:33:32,534
Speaker 2: outside of what's required for work now, so I've got

598
00:33:32,534 --> 00:33:36,854
Speaker 2: to seek other sort of avenues to unwind and stuff.

599
00:33:36,934 --> 00:33:40,974
Speaker 2: But Yeah, so I guess it's hard to say. I

600
00:33:40,974 --> 00:33:43,854
Speaker 2: guess when you're living every day.

601
00:33:43,934 --> 00:33:47,774
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can still watch the Netflix shows and I

602
00:33:47,814 --> 00:33:49,854
Speaker 1: live and breathe true crime every day. So I think

603
00:33:49,894 --> 00:33:51,894
Speaker 1: it just is different people.

604
00:33:52,414 --> 00:33:54,614
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just depends on there's no sort of right

605
00:33:54,694 --> 00:33:56,054
Speaker 2: or wrong answer. Yeah.

606
00:33:56,654 --> 00:33:59,174
Speaker 1: Has your research ever I know you were talking about

607
00:33:59,214 --> 00:34:01,454
Speaker 1: Britney's mum, but has it ever kind of led to

608
00:34:01,494 --> 00:34:04,894
Speaker 1: a breakthrough or helped an investigation.

609
00:34:06,054 --> 00:34:07,854
Speaker 2: I don't think so, not that I know of, Like

610
00:34:07,974 --> 00:34:10,534
Speaker 2: that Case File episode hasn't directly led to a case

611
00:34:10,574 --> 00:34:14,334
Speaker 2: being solved. Obviously, we've covered unsolved cases that have then

612
00:34:14,534 --> 00:34:17,214
Speaker 2: become solved, not because of the case would coverage, but

613
00:34:17,294 --> 00:34:20,534
Speaker 2: that has happened. We've definitely received tips over the years.

614
00:34:21,134 --> 00:34:23,254
Speaker 2: You know, I've had tips come directly to me and

615
00:34:23,654 --> 00:34:27,374
Speaker 2: I'm like, I can't I'm not an investigative agency, Like

616
00:34:27,414 --> 00:34:30,654
Speaker 2: I can't do anything with this and sort of encourage

617
00:34:30,654 --> 00:34:33,854
Speaker 2: those people to contact the relevant law enforcement agency.

618
00:34:34,654 --> 00:34:36,494
Speaker 1: That's a lot of pressure on you though, as well,

619
00:34:36,534 --> 00:34:39,294
Speaker 1: getting tips through your email and you're like, I'm just

620
00:34:39,374 --> 00:34:40,254
Speaker 1: toasting a podcast.

621
00:34:40,374 --> 00:34:45,094
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I mean I get it's tough too, because

622
00:34:45,174 --> 00:34:47,534
Speaker 2: a lot of these cases are decades old, and so

623
00:34:47,654 --> 00:34:49,174
Speaker 2: from the point of view of the person like, well,

624
00:34:49,174 --> 00:34:51,854
Speaker 2: the police don't care, they're not doing anything. That's probably

625
00:34:51,894 --> 00:34:54,414
Speaker 2: their perception. Whether that's the truth or not, I don't know,

626
00:34:54,414 --> 00:34:57,614
Speaker 2: it could be different. But if there is ever something

627
00:34:57,694 --> 00:34:59,934
Speaker 2: I could actually do to help a case, of course

628
00:34:59,934 --> 00:35:03,134
Speaker 2: I would do it. But yeah, I think I definitely

629
00:35:03,174 --> 00:35:05,494
Speaker 2: don't want to be overreaching and trying to take on

630
00:35:05,534 --> 00:35:08,934
Speaker 2: the role of an investigative agency. I think the first

631
00:35:09,014 --> 00:35:14,894
Speaker 2: part of call the Police and yeah.

632
00:35:13,734 --> 00:35:17,414
Speaker 1: You've no doubt watched the True Crime space explode over

633
00:35:17,454 --> 00:35:20,014
Speaker 1: the last nine years. I mean we're here, we've popped

634
00:35:20,094 --> 00:35:24,734
Speaker 1: up and plenty of other podcasts. Do you fixate on

635
00:35:24,814 --> 00:35:26,374
Speaker 1: the charts? I mean you're usually at the top of them,

636
00:35:26,414 --> 00:35:27,974
Speaker 1: so you don't need to have to worry, But is

637
00:35:28,014 --> 00:35:33,734
Speaker 1: it interesting watching it explode and all these new podcasts

638
00:35:33,774 --> 00:35:36,214
Speaker 1: in your kind of space come up?

639
00:35:36,414 --> 00:35:40,414
Speaker 2: Yeah, it still remains one of the most popular, I believe,

640
00:35:40,654 --> 00:35:43,534
Speaker 2: of the podcast categories, and there's been all sorts of

641
00:35:43,654 --> 00:35:47,254
Speaker 2: shows that have popped up since and continue to be popular.

642
00:35:47,374 --> 00:35:50,494
Speaker 2: And yeah, obviously there was In Australia we have the

643
00:35:50,534 --> 00:35:53,854
Speaker 2: Teacher's Pet which has led to a result, so there's

644
00:35:53,894 --> 00:35:55,614
Speaker 2: been a lot that has happened over the years.

645
00:35:55,654 --> 00:35:59,134
Speaker 1: Yeah, why do you think Case File still dominates all

646
00:35:59,174 --> 00:35:59,854
Speaker 1: these years later?

647
00:35:59,934 --> 00:36:02,774
Speaker 2: That's a great question. I have no idea. I just

648
00:36:03,374 --> 00:36:05,534
Speaker 2: it's almost like every day I wake up, I'm like,

649
00:36:05,614 --> 00:36:09,094
Speaker 2: is this the day where everyone stops listening? Or it's

650
00:36:09,614 --> 00:36:15,254
Speaker 2: it's hard. It doesn't seem real. And it's pretty rare

651
00:36:15,334 --> 00:36:17,854
Speaker 2: to have been for a show to be at the

652
00:36:17,854 --> 00:36:20,494
Speaker 2: top for so long too. I mean, obviously we have

653
00:36:20,654 --> 00:36:24,814
Speaker 2: regular earlis episodes, so those bigger sort of investigative shows

654
00:36:24,854 --> 00:36:28,094
Speaker 2: like Your Teacher's Pattern stuff that are limited run, they

655
00:36:28,174 --> 00:36:32,894
Speaker 2: can't say the top because they're not there. Yeah, they're

656
00:36:32,894 --> 00:36:37,534
Speaker 2: short runs, so we have that to our advantage. But yeah,

657
00:36:37,934 --> 00:36:40,094
Speaker 2: I don't know, and we don't take it for granted.

658
00:36:40,134 --> 00:36:43,854
Speaker 2: We continue just to put our heads down, work really

659
00:36:43,894 --> 00:36:47,174
Speaker 2: hard and try to continually improve the episodes and what

660
00:36:47,174 --> 00:36:50,414
Speaker 2: we're doing, and as long as people keep listening, we

661
00:36:50,454 --> 00:36:51,414
Speaker 2: will keep doing it.

662
00:36:51,654 --> 00:36:54,454
Speaker 1: We've obviously met some of your audience in real life.

663
00:36:54,534 --> 00:36:57,494
Speaker 1: You've done a few in person chats, But do you

664
00:36:57,534 --> 00:36:59,854
Speaker 1: get a lot of feedback from audience of where they're

665
00:36:59,854 --> 00:37:03,174
Speaker 1: listening and why they love the show.

666
00:37:04,614 --> 00:37:08,414
Speaker 2: The most common feedback that I have gotten from people

667
00:37:08,694 --> 00:37:10,934
Speaker 2: in both in per some people email in and write

668
00:37:10,934 --> 00:37:15,094
Speaker 2: comments and stuff. Is just they appreciate the no nonsense storytelling,

669
00:37:15,094 --> 00:37:19,734
Speaker 2: I guess, the empathetic storytelling. There's no banter or chit chat,

670
00:37:19,774 --> 00:37:22,734
Speaker 2: so I guess they like that about our style as well.

671
00:37:24,134 --> 00:37:27,014
Speaker 2: And just what I touched on before that it's not

672
00:37:27,094 --> 00:37:31,774
Speaker 2: just we're not just telling stories about gratuitous violences. Generally

673
00:37:32,254 --> 00:37:36,814
Speaker 2: something else to it, some sort of impact somewhere, judicial system,

674
00:37:37,054 --> 00:37:42,054
Speaker 2: criminal justice system, police whatever. And yeah, that's I guess

675
00:37:42,054 --> 00:37:45,254
Speaker 2: the most the most common feedback that I've gotten.

676
00:37:45,614 --> 00:37:48,094
Speaker 1: I have a feeling you accompany many people on their

677
00:37:48,174 --> 00:37:49,174
Speaker 1: road trips.

678
00:37:49,574 --> 00:37:52,014
Speaker 2: In terms of where they listen. Yeah, yeah, road trips

679
00:37:52,294 --> 00:37:55,694
Speaker 2: is very popular. Gym and walks runs that sort of

680
00:37:55,694 --> 00:38:00,894
Speaker 2: thing is very popular as well. And it's funny. Actually, Anthony,

681
00:38:01,534 --> 00:38:06,534
Speaker 2: the other audio producer, was at a friend's house recently

682
00:38:06,654 --> 00:38:10,254
Speaker 2: and he's popped out of the car and he's heard

683
00:38:10,334 --> 00:38:13,894
Speaker 2: my voice's so what's going on here? And it turns

684
00:38:13,934 --> 00:38:16,334
Speaker 2: out a neighbor of his friend was in the garage

685
00:38:16,774 --> 00:38:21,614
Speaker 2: doing a workout and had case file laring. So, yeah,

686
00:38:22,214 --> 00:38:24,294
Speaker 2: that's never happened to me. I've never bumped into anyone

687
00:38:24,334 --> 00:38:27,054
Speaker 2: listening to case File really No, well not that I

688
00:38:27,134 --> 00:38:27,294
Speaker 2: know of.

689
00:38:28,134 --> 00:38:30,454
Speaker 1: Yeah, you haven't seen it on their phone. I've done

690
00:38:30,454 --> 00:38:32,534
Speaker 1: that a few times where I've seen our podcast on

691
00:38:32,534 --> 00:38:33,294
Speaker 1: someone's phone.

692
00:38:33,414 --> 00:38:35,374
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, no, never.

693
00:38:36,174 --> 00:38:40,134
Speaker 1: Because your voice is very familiar. Now, like you've done

694
00:38:40,174 --> 00:38:44,294
Speaker 1: over three hundred episodes and you didn't have any audio training,

695
00:38:44,334 --> 00:38:45,214
Speaker 1: did you.

696
00:38:45,254 --> 00:38:46,254
Speaker 2: No.

697
00:38:46,334 --> 00:38:49,214
Speaker 1: But I think most people that listen would be able

698
00:38:49,214 --> 00:38:51,374
Speaker 1: to recognize your voice in a light up.

699
00:38:52,254 --> 00:38:56,174
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe, but some people don't. I at an event

700
00:38:56,214 --> 00:38:59,334
Speaker 2: only last week and I was talking to someone and

701
00:38:59,534 --> 00:39:01,734
Speaker 2: I mentioned I was from case File. There was a

702
00:39:01,734 --> 00:39:05,014
Speaker 2: podcast event and they were like, oh, the famous voice,

703
00:39:05,054 --> 00:39:08,574
Speaker 2: So who does the voice? And so they had no

704
00:39:08,654 --> 00:39:12,054
Speaker 2: idea that it was. I'd say, that's me and they

705
00:39:12,094 --> 00:39:15,934
Speaker 2: were like, oh, you sound very seferent in real life.

706
00:39:16,254 --> 00:39:18,894
Speaker 1: So you do tell people that you come across that you.

707
00:39:18,854 --> 00:39:22,934
Speaker 2: Are not everyone, but in that environment, I was okay

708
00:39:24,254 --> 00:39:27,094
Speaker 2: to talk about it that particular event. But it's not

709
00:39:27,134 --> 00:39:29,974
Speaker 2: something or just freely disclose on day to day on

710
00:39:30,014 --> 00:39:31,174
Speaker 2: the street or anything like that.

711
00:39:31,334 --> 00:39:37,974
Speaker 1: No, next I ask the anonymous host of case File

712
00:39:38,174 --> 00:39:45,454
Speaker 1: who he will reveal his identity to Nerdy again. But

713
00:39:45,774 --> 00:39:47,774
Speaker 1: I was at the Australian Podcast Awards and I hear

714
00:39:47,814 --> 00:39:50,294
Speaker 1: you were too. I was, but I wouldn't have known

715
00:39:50,334 --> 00:39:51,654
Speaker 1: it because I didn't know what you learn.

716
00:39:51,734 --> 00:39:54,134
Speaker 2: I was just lurking in the shadows at the back

717
00:39:54,174 --> 00:39:54,814
Speaker 2: of the room there.

718
00:39:54,974 --> 00:39:58,134
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you don't well I don't remember you getting up.

719
00:39:58,174 --> 00:40:00,894
Speaker 1: Case File Presents at least got an award that night.

720
00:40:00,934 --> 00:40:03,574
Speaker 2: From memory, we were nominated, didn't win.

721
00:40:03,774 --> 00:40:05,134
Speaker 1: Would you have gotten up if you won?

722
00:40:06,134 --> 00:40:09,414
Speaker 2: No? No, I think members of the A cast team

723
00:40:09,534 --> 00:40:11,174
Speaker 2: we're going to step in and do that for us.

724
00:40:11,934 --> 00:40:15,294
Speaker 2: So that was easy Street and Troubled Warders were both

725
00:40:15,334 --> 00:40:16,854
Speaker 2: nominated in different categories.

726
00:40:17,014 --> 00:40:20,254
Speaker 1: So you are still very careful in terms of like

727
00:40:20,334 --> 00:40:22,614
Speaker 1: you'll do certain things, like you'll stand in front of

728
00:40:22,614 --> 00:40:25,454
Speaker 1: an intimate audience, but you won't get up on a

729
00:40:25,494 --> 00:40:27,014
Speaker 1: stage in a podcasting awards.

730
00:40:28,254 --> 00:40:32,254
Speaker 2: Yeah. I know it probably seems a bit contradictory.

731
00:40:31,534 --> 00:40:33,574
Speaker 1: But no clever.

732
00:40:33,854 --> 00:40:35,454
Speaker 2: But in saying that, if I was at that award

733
00:40:35,494 --> 00:40:38,574
Speaker 2: show and bumped into you and you introduce yourself like

734
00:40:39,414 --> 00:40:43,054
Speaker 2: at that sort of environment, I would have said who

735
00:40:43,094 --> 00:40:43,454
Speaker 2: I was?

736
00:40:43,534 --> 00:40:46,054
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I'll recognize you now now you will?

737
00:40:46,534 --> 00:40:46,734
Speaker 2: Yes.

738
00:40:48,134 --> 00:40:51,014
Speaker 1: Where do you think the future of podcasting is going?

739
00:40:51,134 --> 00:40:53,534
Speaker 1: Is someone that's been in the world for so long

740
00:40:53,574 --> 00:40:55,574
Speaker 1: because it is so saturated.

741
00:40:55,014 --> 00:40:59,134
Speaker 2: Now, I think from what I read and see, everything

742
00:40:59,214 --> 00:41:04,094
Speaker 2: seems to be pointing towards video. Videos become a very

743
00:41:04,094 --> 00:41:07,734
Speaker 2: big thing, which I don't know. I'm like, well, video

744
00:41:07,854 --> 00:41:10,294
Speaker 2: is not podcasting, though, it's a different thing.

745
00:41:10,454 --> 00:41:12,334
Speaker 1: You'll have to get a good silhouette.

746
00:41:12,454 --> 00:41:15,974
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, we've just made changes to our YouTube channel,

747
00:41:15,974 --> 00:41:18,334
Speaker 2: so we release on YouTube as well. So as of

748
00:41:18,374 --> 00:41:21,934
Speaker 2: the first episode we've released this year, we've incorporated sort

749
00:41:21,934 --> 00:41:25,014
Speaker 2: of pitches and maps and different things that will overlay

750
00:41:25,054 --> 00:41:27,894
Speaker 2: on the screen and it's kind of like an animated

751
00:41:28,334 --> 00:41:32,694
Speaker 2: studio silhouette of a person recording. So we've made some tweaks,

752
00:41:33,214 --> 00:41:35,054
Speaker 2: leaning into the video a bit more, doing what we

753
00:41:35,054 --> 00:41:38,174
Speaker 2: can because obviously we are limited. But yeah, it's a

754
00:41:38,254 --> 00:41:41,094
Speaker 2: very different landscape now than it was to when Case

755
00:41:41,134 --> 00:41:44,974
Speaker 2: File started. I find it now when we release case

756
00:41:45,014 --> 00:41:47,614
Speaker 2: File present shows sometimes, even though we have a massive

757
00:41:47,654 --> 00:41:53,614
Speaker 2: audience to advertise that too, sometimes it can not take

758
00:41:54,174 --> 00:41:58,294
Speaker 2: a bit. It's just very hard to break through now.

759
00:41:58,334 --> 00:42:01,894
Speaker 2: I think there's so many established shows, launching a new

760
00:42:01,934 --> 00:42:05,774
Speaker 2: show much tougher. Not to say it can't be done,

761
00:42:05,814 --> 00:42:08,534
Speaker 2: of course, it can be it's just much tougher now.

762
00:42:08,574 --> 00:42:11,614
Speaker 2: I think the barrier to entries a little bit higher now.

763
00:42:11,774 --> 00:42:15,974
Speaker 1: So if you were to try and release your episode

764
00:42:15,974 --> 00:42:19,854
Speaker 1: one from twenty sixteen now and do what you did now.

765
00:42:19,894 --> 00:42:22,374
Speaker 2: I think that would be what the original It would

766
00:42:22,374 --> 00:42:25,094
Speaker 2: turn out to what the original thought was three episodes,

767
00:42:25,094 --> 00:42:27,574
Speaker 2: and I'd be back to work. Yeah. I couldn't see

768
00:42:27,574 --> 00:42:30,174
Speaker 2: it taking off now, just with how bad the audio

769
00:42:30,374 --> 00:42:33,054
Speaker 2: was as well. So I think there's a much higher

770
00:42:34,214 --> 00:42:38,814
Speaker 2: level of quality now, audio production and just the product

771
00:42:38,854 --> 00:42:41,814
Speaker 2: the shows themselves, the content. Yeah.

772
00:42:41,894 --> 00:42:42,814
Speaker 1: Do you still love it?

773
00:42:43,654 --> 00:42:48,134
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah? Still. As I said, I wake up every

774
00:42:48,254 --> 00:42:52,014
Speaker 2: day just so I can't believe that the show has

775
00:42:52,014 --> 00:42:54,054
Speaker 2: the audience that it has, and that I get to

776
00:42:54,094 --> 00:42:57,534
Speaker 2: work with such a talented group of people and people listen,

777
00:42:57,574 --> 00:43:00,494
Speaker 2: and that we get to do this. Yeah, very fortunate.

778
00:43:00,894 --> 00:43:04,334
Speaker 1: So you've just come back from summer break in February,

779
00:43:04,854 --> 00:43:05,494
Speaker 1: lucky bugger.

780
00:43:05,814 --> 00:43:08,574
Speaker 2: Yes, although that is a bit of a misconception I'd

781
00:43:08,574 --> 00:43:11,174
Speaker 2: like to clear up. We've been bombarded with one star

782
00:43:11,254 --> 00:43:13,814
Speaker 2: review so we've taken too long off. I can assure

783
00:43:13,814 --> 00:43:17,814
Speaker 2: everyone we have been working very hard. I mean, of course,

784
00:43:17,854 --> 00:43:19,894
Speaker 2: we had two weeks off over the Christmas New Year

785
00:43:19,934 --> 00:43:22,694
Speaker 2: period itself. But as soon as the last episode came

786
00:43:22,734 --> 00:43:25,494
Speaker 2: out last year, we would have wrapped that up in October,

787
00:43:25,854 --> 00:43:27,734
Speaker 2: so as soon as that was sort of done and recorded,

788
00:43:27,894 --> 00:43:29,494
Speaker 2: might not have been released yet, but we were straight

789
00:43:29,534 --> 00:43:31,094
Speaker 2: onto twenty twenty five, So.

790
00:43:31,574 --> 00:43:34,174
Speaker 1: Listeners rest assured you were working. You just went related to.

791
00:43:34,294 --> 00:43:37,734
Speaker 2: Yeah, we sort of need that three month lead in

792
00:43:37,854 --> 00:43:41,374
Speaker 2: just to get ready for the new year, because otherwise

793
00:43:41,374 --> 00:43:43,934
Speaker 2: it can In past years it's just been a nightmare.

794
00:43:44,094 --> 00:43:47,334
Speaker 2: We've barely been days ahead. Like I've finished recording an episode,

795
00:43:47,374 --> 00:43:48,974
Speaker 2: got to get it to Mike. He's got three days

796
00:43:48,974 --> 00:43:51,494
Speaker 2: to put the audio production, get it out, and that's

797
00:43:51,614 --> 00:43:54,654
Speaker 2: not a good way to operate. Stressful, so we try

798
00:43:54,694 --> 00:43:55,774
Speaker 2: and keep ahead of that. Now.

799
00:43:56,294 --> 00:43:58,094
Speaker 1: So what can we expect. What are some of the

800
00:43:58,174 --> 00:43:59,534
Speaker 1: episodes that you have coming up?

801
00:44:00,094 --> 00:44:04,694
Speaker 2: Listeners can expect I think more of what they have

802
00:44:04,854 --> 00:44:07,454
Speaker 2: come to know and love about Case File, as varied

803
00:44:07,534 --> 00:44:11,134
Speaker 2: cases from Australia from around the world. There's all sorts

804
00:44:11,174 --> 00:44:16,334
Speaker 2: of different cases, more recent older. We are launching with

805
00:44:16,334 --> 00:44:20,574
Speaker 2: a two parter on the Night Caller, which was the

806
00:44:20,774 --> 00:44:26,214
Speaker 2: serial offender Eric Atgacook in Perth, Western Australia. And I

807
00:44:26,254 --> 00:44:29,974
Speaker 2: think what's interesting about that case is just such a

808
00:44:30,014 --> 00:44:32,094
Speaker 2: different time when that was happening, and you have this

809
00:44:32,214 --> 00:44:38,054
Speaker 2: prolific serial offender just wreaking havoc across the city, and

810
00:44:38,134 --> 00:44:40,654
Speaker 2: yet they didn't put it together that it was the

811
00:44:40,694 --> 00:44:45,894
Speaker 2: same offender. I mean, there's multiple wrongful convictions. Despite a

812
00:44:45,934 --> 00:44:49,454
Speaker 2: confession from Eric a gocook in this case, after he

813
00:44:49,534 --> 00:44:52,614
Speaker 2: was eventually caught and he confessed, and they put together, oh,

814
00:44:52,654 --> 00:44:55,654
Speaker 2: this was all the same guy. There's people sitting in

815
00:44:55,654 --> 00:44:58,254
Speaker 2: prison for his crimes. And despite a full detailed confession

816
00:44:58,254 --> 00:45:01,774
Speaker 2: that an, it still took a while for those guys

817
00:45:01,774 --> 00:45:04,334
Speaker 2: to get out. A certain things about that case that

818
00:45:04,414 --> 00:45:05,134
Speaker 2: blow my mind.

819
00:45:05,934 --> 00:45:08,854
Speaker 1: Do you ever struggle to hold back your opinion in

820
00:45:08,894 --> 00:45:09,494
Speaker 1: your script? Right?

821
00:45:09,854 --> 00:45:13,734
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, yeah, I have plenty of opinions on those cases.

822
00:45:14,334 --> 00:45:17,014
Speaker 2: But yeah, very mindful that that's not what case follows about.

823
00:45:17,294 --> 00:45:20,414
Speaker 2: It's going to remain neutral. Just tell it, just tell

824
00:45:20,414 --> 00:45:24,334
Speaker 2: the facts. And sometimes I think people forget that. So

825
00:45:24,454 --> 00:45:28,414
Speaker 2: like if we are very common gripe for listeners and

826
00:45:28,414 --> 00:45:30,094
Speaker 2: that we'll get emails about is about the use of

827
00:45:30,134 --> 00:45:34,134
Speaker 2: polygraph tests. So if we mention in a case like

828
00:45:34,294 --> 00:45:36,614
Speaker 2: you know, certain suspect was brought in, given a polygraph

829
00:45:36,614 --> 00:45:39,614
Speaker 2: test and passed and failed or whatever. People rite in

830
00:45:39,734 --> 00:45:43,814
Speaker 2: like furious, this is junk science. It's been debunked. We're

831
00:45:43,814 --> 00:45:51,254
Speaker 2: not advocating, just that's what happened. Yeah, So even though

832
00:45:51,254 --> 00:45:54,094
Speaker 2: we don't give opinions, people can sometimes hear things and

833
00:45:54,374 --> 00:45:57,014
Speaker 2: think that we are. But yeah, just keep it neutral.

834
00:45:57,134 --> 00:46:00,694
Speaker 2: This is what happened, and that's case file. Basically.

835
00:46:01,614 --> 00:46:03,414
Speaker 1: I know you said you kept it secret from your

836
00:46:03,414 --> 00:46:05,774
Speaker 1: friends and family, but I'm assuming they know what you do.

837
00:46:05,854 --> 00:46:07,254
Speaker 1: Now what do they think they know?

838
00:46:07,494 --> 00:46:11,654
Speaker 2: Now? Yeah, Yeah, they're pretty sort of blown away by

839
00:46:11,654 --> 00:46:14,894
Speaker 2: it as well. Some of them can't believe it. They

840
00:46:14,894 --> 00:46:15,814
Speaker 2: hear my voice a lot.

841
00:46:16,614 --> 00:46:17,254
Speaker 1: Do they listen?

842
00:46:18,614 --> 00:46:22,574
Speaker 2: Some do, Some don't. Yeah, some sort of. Some are

843
00:46:22,614 --> 00:46:24,814
Speaker 2: turned off by my voice actually because they can't take

844
00:46:24,854 --> 00:46:27,854
Speaker 2: it seriously because they know it's me, you know, someone

845
00:46:27,934 --> 00:46:30,494
Speaker 2: into true crime and stuff like that. Yeah, but quite

846
00:46:30,494 --> 00:46:32,934
Speaker 2: a few friends and family do listen. Yeah.

847
00:46:32,974 --> 00:46:34,894
Speaker 1: Well, thank you for coming into the studio. I know

848
00:46:34,934 --> 00:46:37,934
Speaker 1: it was a bit of a trick for you. That's

849
00:46:37,974 --> 00:46:39,134
Speaker 1: not giving too much away, is it.

850
00:46:39,454 --> 00:46:42,694
Speaker 2: No bad traffic, very bad traffic.

851
00:46:43,134 --> 00:46:49,814
Speaker 1: Everyone can keep listening to you, but just call you Casey.

852
00:46:51,494 --> 00:46:54,614
Speaker 1: Thanks to Casey for telling us his story. True Crime

853
00:46:54,654 --> 00:46:57,614
Speaker 1: Conversations is a Mum of Meer podcast hosted and produced

854
00:46:57,614 --> 00:47:01,134
Speaker 1: by me Jemma Bath and Tarlie Blackman, with audio design

855
00:47:01,334 --> 00:47:04,494
Speaker 1: by Jacob Brown. Thanks so much for listening. I'll be

856
00:47:04,534 --> 00:47:07,174
Speaker 1: back next week with another True Crime Conversation.

857
00:47:07,894 --> 00:47:11,254
Speaker 3: Hey, we hope you enjoyed this episode of True Crime Conversations.

858
00:47:11,294 --> 00:47:13,254
Speaker 3: If you want more from Jemma and the team, they

859
00:47:13,294 --> 00:47:16,414
Speaker 3: release new episodes on some of the biggest murders, mysteries,

860
00:47:16,454 --> 00:47:19,334
Speaker 3: and crimes every single week. There'll be a link to

861
00:47:19,334 --> 00:47:21,654
Speaker 3: follow in our show notes, and the quickie will be

862
00:47:21,654 --> 00:47:23,814
Speaker 3: back in your feed tomorrow at six am.