Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mother and Me podcast. Muma Me
Speaker 1: acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters.
Speaker 2: This podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 1: This episode deals with discussions and depictions of mental ill health.
Speaker 1: Listener discretion is advised. What makes a perfect partner? Does
Speaker 1: the person you meet, catch feelings for and see life
Speaker 1: with have to be perfect from the start, or do
Speaker 1: you look at potential imperfections and think I can fix them,
Speaker 1: especially when said imperfections are ones you've dealt with yourself.
Speaker 3: There's someone who has some shared experiences. I've been able
Speaker 3: to create mar own tools to move past a lot
Speaker 3: of those feelings. So maybe I have to role model
Speaker 3: some of that to him first and meet him halfway,
Speaker 3: So get him to a point where he's comfortable and
Speaker 3: confident enough in me to be able to support him
Speaker 3: through some of those challenges that he's facing. So I
Speaker 3: think I really related to some of what he was
Speaker 3: saying and thought, my goodness, this could really be something
Speaker 3: if I can help him through this.
Speaker 2: That's Jen. She's what we call a fixer.
Speaker 1: The connection she had with Steve was strong enough that
Speaker 1: what others might perceive as red flags, she saw as
Speaker 1: things they could overcome together, no matter what it took.
Speaker 1: But the problem with fixes is that they often failed
Speaker 1: to see what they're losing in themselves in trying to
Speaker 1: help the other person.
Speaker 3: If he was mad at me, then I would just
Speaker 3: feel really crappy for the rest of the day, and
Speaker 3: I would then do everything I could to try to
Speaker 3: make it up to him, because I could see that
Speaker 3: he was spending a lot of time on me, and
Speaker 3: I could see that it might stop him from doing
Speaker 3: those things. And that's the challenge that you're just like,
Speaker 3: but it could get better.
Speaker 1: I'm Georgia Love and this is everyone has an X.
Speaker 1: Come with me as we dive into a collection of
Speaker 1: unconventional stories about relationships past through the eyes and the
Speaker 1: hearts of the very people who lived them. Jen was
Speaker 1: twenty five when this story begins. She'd always been a
Speaker 1: good student, kept her head down and worked hard, and
Speaker 1: a good daughter. She'd lived at home with her parents
Speaker 1: and never went off the rails or brought any boys home.
Speaker 1: But now she was finished her studies and was all
Speaker 1: grown up. It was time to spread her wings.
Speaker 3: I had just moved out with my two best friends.
Speaker 3: We'd moved into a townhouse together. I just started my
Speaker 3: first job out of UNI, so it all kind of
Speaker 3: felt like my life was starting to head into that
Speaker 3: adult state and I was like, awesome, well, I'm.
Speaker 2: Living out of home now.
Speaker 3: Now it's probably time to date because if I have to,
Speaker 3: can have people come back. I was probably more focused
Speaker 3: on studies, but I'd always see all of my friends
Speaker 3: around me in relationships and I'll be like, yes, sir,
Speaker 3: I want that, but I also want to have.
Speaker 2: That with the right person.
Speaker 3: So it'd always kind of just be like they like me,
Speaker 3: but I didn't like them, and vice versa. But I
Speaker 3: think moving out of home, I was like, I feel
Speaker 3: like I'm ready to explore a different part of my
Speaker 3: life now and see what happened. So it was an
Speaker 3: exciting time. Both of my two best friends they had
Speaker 3: just broken up out of their long term relationships as well,
Speaker 3: so we were all almost doing this online dating stuff.
Speaker 1: It was unchouted territory for Jen, not just the online
Speaker 1: dating part of it, the dating part altogether.
Speaker 3: There was definitely crushes that I had had throughout high
Speaker 3: school and things and even sort of throughout my UNI days,
Speaker 3: and there might have been like a pash here and there,
Speaker 3: but it was never anyone that I was able to
Speaker 3: sort of say, yeah, I want to I want to
Speaker 3: date you. There was a couple of guys I think
Speaker 3: leading up to sort of moving out and things that
Speaker 3: I was like, let's get to know each other, but
Speaker 3: I always just got the friend vibe from them, and
Speaker 3: I just couldn't kind of see myself progressing. And I
Speaker 3: was always really honest with everyone as well, sort of
Speaker 3: where I was at.
Speaker 2: But yeah, besides pashing, that was it.
Speaker 1: But moving out of home and in with two single girlfriends,
Speaker 1: Jen was entering into a whole new era. So she
Speaker 1: chose her favorite picks, wrote a standout bio, and got
Speaker 1: herself on the apps.
Speaker 3: Was absolutely crapping myself. There is the excitement, but there's
Speaker 3: also the fear of what is this person going to
Speaker 3: think of me? And then, because I hadn't given my
Speaker 3: body to anyone before, it was kind of how do
Speaker 3: you navigate this? And how do you feel comfortable enough
Speaker 3: in your own skin to allow someone to see so
Speaker 3: vulnerable in a naked state and trust them enough and
Speaker 3: develop trust in a really organic way, even when you're
Speaker 3: doing it on the apps, because obviously that doesn't necessarily
Speaker 3: feel organic to begin with. And you know a little
Speaker 3: bit about each other, but really going to meet someone
Speaker 3: that you don't really know anything about and you've sent
Speaker 3: a few messages back and forth, it was very daunting.
Speaker 3: It was horrifying to think that I would have to
Speaker 3: share with someone that I was twenty five and still
Speaker 3: a virgin. It would take me a really long time
Speaker 3: to sort of lead up to a date. There was
Speaker 3: one that I think I was talking to for a
Speaker 3: three month period before I met, and I think we
Speaker 3: saw each other four times, and I really obviously wasn't
Speaker 3: giving him what he was expecting.
Speaker 2: Out of things. But it was just because I was
Speaker 2: ready to take things slow. He was pushing, I think.
Speaker 3: So it was just like, look, this is where I'm at,
Speaker 3: and this is why things aren't gressing because I just
Speaker 3: it was like I felt ready, but I didn't feel
Speaker 3: ready with that person, and I wanted it. I didn't
Speaker 3: necessarily have this fantasy about how special it would be.
Speaker 2: Or anything like that.
Speaker 3: It was just I don't want to be naked in
Speaker 3: front of you, and I don't really want to be
Speaker 3: that intimate with you in particular. You're just not the
Speaker 3: right person for me to do that with. But yeah,
Speaker 3: it wasn't like I had, so I know for everyone
Speaker 3: it's a little bit different with their virginity and sometimes
Speaker 3: as well, I want to wait till a marriage and
Speaker 3: I want that person to be right for me, and
Speaker 3: others are like, you know, what's not that special. I'm
Speaker 3: just going to, you know, enjoy those processes and get
Speaker 3: into it. But for me yet, it was more kind
Speaker 3: of I want to trust you enough that I could
Speaker 3: enjoy it and I don't want to get the ick.
Speaker 1: Just when she was questioning whether the apps were ever
Speaker 1: going to be the place she'd find this person, along
Speaker 1: came a guy named Steve.
Speaker 3: And I wasn't necessarily physically attracted to the photos that
Speaker 3: I was seeing, And it was one of those apps
Speaker 3: where they can just reach out to you and if
Speaker 3: you want to respond, you can, but you wasn't didn't have.
Speaker 2: To be a mutual.
Speaker 3: I like you, you like me. He was eleven years
Speaker 3: older than me. I actually remember the photo that he
Speaker 3: had used as well, and I was like, hmm, that
Speaker 3: just feels a bit a bit out there. I think
Speaker 3: he was shirtless sort of from the chest up, and
Speaker 3: he had quite like shoulder length hair as well, So
Speaker 3: I think based on the age, I was kind of like, oh,
Speaker 3: you're probably be a little bit older. But I also
Speaker 3: noticed that the distance he lived into state, and so
Speaker 3: for me, again, it wasn't something that I was wanting
Speaker 3: to entertain. I wanted a connection and I wanted to
Speaker 3: be able to be physical, but if I wanted a relationship,
Speaker 3: having someone live in a different state was not going
Speaker 3: to be on top.
Speaker 2: Of my list of priorities.
Speaker 1: There.
Speaker 3: I don't really remember exactly what he said, but it
Speaker 3: was a lot of you're really pretty, and then almost
Speaker 3: went off on this really strange fantasy. It was really odd,
Speaker 3: and again so this was something I was like, who
Speaker 3: is this random sending me these strange messages. I actually
Speaker 3: wasn't even responding at the time, because I had gone
Speaker 3: out with some friends and we had gone out dancing,
Speaker 3: and when I had come back, I had this novel
Speaker 3: of different messages just following through the strange fantasy, and
Speaker 3: he hadn't gone necessarily sexual with the fantasy. It was
Speaker 3: just kind of this really long narration and it wasn't
Speaker 3: the sort of opening that I had received from any
Speaker 3: of the other guys before on the apps or anyway.
Speaker 3: I always really felt bad about hitting a block button,
Speaker 3: or I would prefer for me, I don't want to
Speaker 3: ever be ghosted. I would rather someone be really upfront
Speaker 3: with me about their sort of thoughts or feelings, and
Speaker 3: it's like, you know, if you're not for me, I'll
Speaker 3: let you know that, and that should be okay. It
Speaker 3: should be enough for someone to respectfully say, it's just
Speaker 3: not what I'm looking for, but thanks for the interest.
Speaker 3: I had hoped that he would respond well to that,
Speaker 3: and at that point he had changed gears and he
Speaker 3: really had gone into Okay, look, that's actually worked for
Speaker 3: me with my last conversation, so I thought I would
Speaker 3: try it again. But here we are, let me find
Speaker 3: out a little bit about you. It was really weird
Speaker 3: as well, because it was almost like he came across
Speaker 3: as he didn't have a lot of experience, because it
Speaker 3: wasn't a usual way for a man to sort of
Speaker 3: approach a woman. So I think part of that peaked
Speaker 3: my interest enough, but I was probably in a bit
Speaker 3: of a low point after ending things with the other one.
Speaker 2: There was like a bit of attention. Sometimes we need
Speaker 2: the attention, the validation.
Speaker 3: Let's just give it a little bit while it's a
Speaker 3: weekend and I've got nothing else going on, And somehow
Speaker 3: we ended up just continuing to talk throughout the night
Speaker 3: and the next day continued to message me and there
Speaker 3: was no more fantasy talk or sexualization of anything, and
Speaker 3: it was very much just to getting to know your process.
Speaker 3: But with me also keeping in the back of my
Speaker 3: mind lived into state. So I continue to do the
Speaker 3: messaging and he would say all the right things, like
Speaker 3: if I fell in love, then I would absolutely move.
Speaker 3: You know, I don't want to continue living where I am.
Speaker 3: I really love Melbourn and sort of seeing what Melbourne
Speaker 3: has to offer. I've been there a few times and
Speaker 3: we sort of got to know each other more and
Speaker 3: more from there, and it was like every minute of
Speaker 3: the day it felt like we were talking.
Speaker 2: You get the butterflies.
Speaker 3: Every time the name pops up on your screen, and
Speaker 3: it is this excitement of what are they saying next?
Speaker 3: And allre they giving me, all of this attention and validation.
Speaker 3: So it started to feel like there was more of
Speaker 3: a buzz between the two of us, But it felt
Speaker 3: like his entire focus was on me. You're obviously not
Speaker 3: talking to anyone else. That's kind of nice to know.
Speaker 3: So early on he didn't have any qualifications, but he
Speaker 3: had gone to university for a period of time, and
Speaker 3: he did say that he did have to leave you
Speaker 3: need to look after his family who were back home,
Speaker 3: So that was really difficult for him to have to
Speaker 3: leave that behind and something that he was wanting to
Speaker 3: sort of see a future for himself and come back
Speaker 3: to take care of family.
Speaker 2: So in a way, that kind of was a bit
Speaker 2: of an.
Speaker 3: Appeal for me, knowing that he was really family oriented
Speaker 3: and it would be a priority for him to make
Speaker 3: sure that he could stop everything just to take care
Speaker 3: of them. I did find him really intelligent, and he
Speaker 3: would sort of just rip out these random comments and
Speaker 3: I was like, where did you learn that? Or it
Speaker 3: just kind of felt so really and then it kept
Speaker 3: me on my toes a bit with the conversation that
Speaker 3: it would also make me think, And I think I
Speaker 3: like to consider myself as someone who reflects a lot
Speaker 3: on their own thoughts and behaviors, and I always want
Speaker 3: to learn from people. So I found him really interesting
Speaker 3: that he would challenge me, I think on some of those.
Speaker 3: But he was also very in touch with his emotions,
Speaker 3: just a lot of articulation and I think expression of
Speaker 3: those feelings, and that was absolutely something that I'd wanted
Speaker 3: in a partner and something I always expect from someone
Speaker 3: who was that much older than me as well. So
Speaker 3: from there, I think I put in almost some boundaries
Speaker 3: and it was, well, what I'm wanting out of this.
Speaker 3: If we're continuing to talk and we're clearly building a
Speaker 3: strong connection here.
Speaker 2: The next step is to meet. So for me, I
Speaker 2: think we had.
Speaker 3: Started talking in September and I had said for New Years,
Speaker 3: I'd really like for us to have met already, and
Speaker 3: if that means that you have to come to Mailwy,
Speaker 3: which I sort of at that point, was like, well,
Speaker 3: you were the one that has sort of chased me,
Speaker 3: So have you come to Melvin if you're as keen
Speaker 3: as you say you are, and come and meet me.
Speaker 3: He initially agreed to that and then backed out. He
Speaker 3: said to me, Look, I struggle with anxiety and it's
Speaker 3: quite significant and I'm no longer working because of it,
Speaker 3: and so financially that has become a real struggle. But
Speaker 3: also the anxiety is at the point where I think
Speaker 3: it would stop me from getting on a plane to
Speaker 3: come and see you. No, I was like, okay, well
Speaker 3: I still feel something. I feel like there could be
Speaker 3: something here. Do I need to be a little bit
Speaker 3: more flexible, particularly because I'd been so rigid up until
Speaker 3: now with sort of my thinking about dating that I
Speaker 3: was like, look, I will come to you, but this
Speaker 3: will be a one off and this will be just
Speaker 3: an opportunity for us to meet. I think it's worth us,
Speaker 3: you know, seeing if there is a spark there, if not,
Speaker 3: no harm done. He was super excited. There was a
Speaker 3: lot of sort of counting down the days until we
Speaker 3: got to meet, and we ended up meeting on Valentine's
Speaker 3: Days and we were both.
Speaker 2: Just really excited.
Speaker 3: It was Okay, where are we going to stay for
Speaker 3: that weekend? And what are we going to do once
Speaker 3: we're together? And oh my gosh, gosh, I hope you
Speaker 3: like me, and I hope that I like you, and
Speaker 3: I hope we do connect and then all of the
Speaker 3: things that we've been sort of talking about or planning
Speaker 3: come together really well. So there was a lot of
Speaker 3: excitement I think from the two of us, which really
Speaker 3: felt mutual, which was also something that I wasn't quite
Speaker 3: used to with the other guys I had dated.
Speaker 1: So in a complete departure, from the gen of the past.
Speaker 1: She booked a flight and a hotel and jetted off
Speaker 1: for their first proper date.
Speaker 3: I remember being in the hotel room and doing my
Speaker 3: hair and doing my makeup, and having some music playing,
Speaker 3: and painting my nails and doing all of these things,
Speaker 3: and just counting down the minutes until he got there.
Speaker 3: And then I almost started to get again anxious from
Speaker 3: that excitement. I guess I've only just sort of started
Speaker 3: dating the last six months, and every time I meet someone,
Speaker 3: I feel really anxious, especially because he had sort of
Speaker 3: mentioned to me that he also wasn't someone who dated.
Speaker 3: He had never had a relationship before. He was also
Speaker 3: a virgin, and that was something that I think we had.
Speaker 2: Oh, I guess we'd.
Speaker 3: Connected on a little bit. For him, I think there
Speaker 3: was a bit more embarrassment about being a virgin because
Speaker 3: he was thirty seven. I remember it being really awkward
Speaker 3: to raise it, But I think I was having a
Speaker 3: Halloween party with my two best friends at that townhouse
Speaker 3: that we had moved into, and he was feeling quite
Speaker 3: worried that I might meet someone at that party, and
Speaker 3: I had sort of made some comments that about it's
Speaker 3: not going to happen. It hasn't happened before, so it's
Speaker 3: not going to happen. And I didn't want to use
Speaker 3: the words I'm a virgin, so I would just say
Speaker 3: things like, oh, I wouldn't know, and his response was
Speaker 3: not necessarily shocked. But then over time started using the
Speaker 3: same sort of terminology as me when I started questioning
Speaker 3: him about his past sexual experiences and he had then
Speaker 3: just come out and said, I'm the same as you.
Speaker 3: We would both sort of about people that we'd had
Speaker 3: crushes on before, experiences that we'd had that sort of
Speaker 3: stopped before it got to that point of becoming sexual,
Speaker 3: and so it almost felt like, in a way, we
Speaker 3: feel like everyone's got some baggage or everyone's got an
Speaker 3: x and for the two of us, we didn't at
Speaker 3: that point, and all of those situations that we were
Speaker 3: in with connections with us never resulted in anything that
Speaker 3: got to that point. So it did feel really new
Speaker 3: to the both of us. Finding that out I think
Speaker 3: probably added to both of our anxieties for the day of.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, we I have booked a hotel.
Speaker 3: Room of Valentine's Day, and you know we're both you
Speaker 3: for someone the same reason there is a potential here
Speaker 3: that we will sleep together, and what is that going
Speaker 3: to be like? Because I can't rely on you to
Speaker 3: kind of lead the way and vice versa, and so
Speaker 3: we're both just going to be really awkward about this.
Speaker 2: But maybe let's just laugh.
Speaker 3: Let's just consider it that it will be an experience
Speaker 3: that where we're sharing in for the first time, and
Speaker 3: that we can just laugh about.
Speaker 1: With all of that in mind, and with Jen's mind,
Speaker 1: heart and nerves racing, the time had finally come. Steve
Speaker 1: was there at the hotel to meet the girl he'd
Speaker 1: been pursuing for six months.
Speaker 3: I remember him buzzing in and I had to take
Speaker 3: the elevator and go down to collect him. And I
Speaker 3: remember the doors opening and I was shaking. My hands
Speaker 3: were shaking. I couldn't even press the button to get
Speaker 3: back up to the floor. And we kind of didn't
Speaker 3: know what to do with one another. It was just this, Okay,
Speaker 3: you're in the elevator, let's just be dead quiet until
Speaker 3: we get up to the room. It was this, I've
Speaker 3: been talking to you for so long, but I have
Speaker 3: never seen you, and now we're in the space together,
Speaker 3: and crap, there probably are some expectations, So how do
Speaker 3: we take this slow enough that I don't know what
Speaker 3: you're thinking, you don't know what I'm thinking. Once we
Speaker 3: got into the room, though, he I think he gave
Speaker 3: me a single rose, and I thought, oh, that's that's
Speaker 3: actually really sweet and this is me a happy Valentine Day.
Speaker 3: And we sat down on the couch and I think
Speaker 3: I was avoiding looking at him. Think I was very awkward,
Speaker 3: but I was realizing that he was way more nervous
Speaker 3: than I was, so it wasn't only my hands that
Speaker 3: were shaking, it was his as well, and he's continued
Speaker 3: to shake for far longer than mine did. I think
Speaker 3: I kind of got to that place where I could
Speaker 3: then relax, and I almost felt sorry for him because
Speaker 3: I could see how anxious he was that I felt
Speaker 3: this sense of responsibility to.
Speaker 2: Help calm him.
Speaker 3: During all the time that we're talking, you sort of
Speaker 3: speak about those things like I can't I can't wait
Speaker 3: to hold you or to hug you, or to kiss you,
Speaker 3: and all of those things, and it was almost like
Speaker 3: a but how do we know when that person wants
Speaker 3: to do that? So I think with me, I've had
Speaker 3: a few more experiences around that it was like, I'm
Speaker 3: just going to go for it then, because I think
Speaker 3: he's too anxious to try to kiss me. So I
Speaker 3: remember doing that and he afterwards had said to me,
Speaker 3: I've never kissed anyone before. And I had to sort
Speaker 3: of sit with that just for a second, just to
Speaker 3: process because it wasn't something that had actually crossed my
Speaker 3: mind that he hadn't even hissed a girl. I was,
Speaker 3: I think, feeling mixed emotions, so it was still looking
Speaker 3: at him being like, oh, I still actually don't know
Speaker 3: if I'm attracted to you.
Speaker 2: So he was this six foot.
Speaker 3: Three guy with shoulder length brown hair and facial hair,
Speaker 3: and I.
Speaker 2: Was like, typically, that's that sounds pretty hot.
Speaker 3: But there was something that I think was stopping me
Speaker 3: from fully leaning in in a way. And I don't
Speaker 3: know if it was more this focus emotionally on this
Speaker 3: is someone I want to help, but there was there
Speaker 3: was obviously enough sexual tension. I guess that we sort
Speaker 3: of continue trying to figure out one another.
Speaker 2: On that weekend, we did end up.
Speaker 3: In bed together, and what I remember is it being
Speaker 3: you don't get a manual on it, and you know
Speaker 3: how logistically, but I think when you're.
Speaker 2: Both that nervous and very much sober. It's kind of this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he was struggling a little bit, and
Speaker 3: I had made a comment that it shouldn't be that hard,
Speaker 3: and he obviously didn't take that well and it wasn't
Speaker 3: said in the way that it came out, and I
Speaker 3: tried to obviously can't take it back, but I tried
Speaker 3: to smooth that over a little bit and try to
Speaker 3: explain what I meant. But he had absolutely taken that heart.
Speaker 3: He kept saying how attracted he was to me and everything.
Speaker 3: But I did know that he was still incredibly anxious,
Speaker 3: and I did sort of try to give him some space.
Speaker 2: But we were in a one bedroom room.
Speaker 3: So he's sitting there at the table, and it was
Speaker 3: awful because his head's in his hands, and I was like,
Speaker 3: oh God, again, how do I make this better for
Speaker 3: him or make him feel more comfortable with what's just happened,
Speaker 3: And how do I say it's okay, let's just give.
Speaker 2: It another go.
Speaker 3: And we did, and then that happened, and yeah continued,
Speaker 3: I guess, just to explore one another a little bit
Speaker 3: during that night. The next day, I remember waking up
Speaker 3: and it was just like, oh, oh, yeah, we did
Speaker 3: this yesterday. We finally ended up meeting and we have connected,
Speaker 3: and yes, super awkward, but this is going to be
Speaker 3: hilarious for us to go back and tell our friends
Speaker 3: about anyway. But I feel like there's still enough here
Speaker 3: that we have met and I'd like to see you again, so.
Speaker 2: We kind of yeah. Continued that same.
Speaker 3: Thing for the next two days, where it very much
Speaker 3: felt like spending a lot of time in bed. I
Speaker 3: do actually remember looking at the ceiling a lot. I'd
Speaker 3: made a few comments because I start to get Cavin fever,
Speaker 3: and again, when I'm in a different state, I'm.
Speaker 2: Like, what's there to see? What's there to do?
Speaker 3: Take me out and show me around, show me where
Speaker 3: you went to school or you know, where you worked,
Speaker 3: or where you've lived before, and things like that. So
Speaker 3: I really wanted to be more part of his journey
Speaker 3: and see more of his life and his upbringing, and
Speaker 3: he would just shut it down and it would be
Speaker 3: a no, no, we're comfortable here. I'm not really comfortable
Speaker 3: going out, and I'm feeling really anxious, and I don't drive,
Speaker 3: so we would have to get onto the train or
Speaker 3: the bus and do those things, and I just want
Speaker 3: to spend the quality time with you.
Speaker 1: Once the initial awkwardness was out of the way, the
Speaker 1: connection they had was even clearer. They'd had a great time,
Speaker 1: so started talking about if or.
Speaker 3: When it could happen again, and it was a this
Speaker 3: has been really lovely and I actually do want to
Speaker 3: see you again, so can we can we talk about
Speaker 3: seeing each other again, and for him it was the
Speaker 3: same conversation of all, I want to see you again, absolutely,
Speaker 3: but I don't have the money to be able to
Speaker 3: book that right now. I can't come and see you.
Speaker 3: And I had said, that's fine, how bad. I just
Speaker 3: booked the plane for you. I'd love for you to
Speaker 3: come to Melvin to see me and see where I
Speaker 3: grew up and all those same things that I wanted
Speaker 3: to experience with him, and he agreed to that at
Speaker 3: that point in time. So yeah, I think we left
Speaker 3: feeling quite giddy still about one another and that there
Speaker 3: was still a connection there, and it was all kind
Speaker 3: of cute and awkward in a way that you almost
Speaker 3: expect as a teenager, that real sort of excitement and
Speaker 3: butterflies and cringe, Like there's plenty of cringe. But I
Speaker 3: remember getting back on that plane and I had the rose,
Speaker 3: and everyone that would walk past would comment how nice
Speaker 3: it was that I'd been given a rose for Valentine's Day,
Speaker 3: and that sort of became his thing, I think, to
Speaker 3: give me flowers.
Speaker 2: True, that was.
Speaker 3: Never something I'd received from man before. Flowers was never
Speaker 3: a thing. So it was nice that he had that romantic.
Speaker 2: Touch and it had worked.
Speaker 1: The feelings were well and truly there even before this
Speaker 1: initial meeting.
Speaker 2: Before we had even met. I think we'd only been.
Speaker 3: Texting for about three weeks when he used the LT word,
Speaker 3: and a big part of me was like, oh, this
Speaker 3: is love bone. You've never even met me, how can
Speaker 3: you use that word? But even saying that was almost
Speaker 3: like I knew that he meant it, and I knew
Speaker 3: that for him it was very real. So it did
Speaker 3: take me back for a bit also because I don't
Speaker 3: I'd never said that to anyone else before either, and
Speaker 3: it definitely took me a bit longer to say it back.
Speaker 3: But it wasn't something that he would then shy away
Speaker 3: from after he'd said it.
Speaker 2: I would say after.
Speaker 3: We left that first time of meeting that we were
Speaker 3: in a relationship, that we had both agreed yep, boyfriend
Speaker 3: and girlfriend, and probably from his side of things, he
Speaker 3: probably would have said that happened much earlier, and I
Speaker 3: guess technically I wasn't seeing anyone else, I wasn't talking
Speaker 3: to anyone else, so without the label, we'd both I guess,
Speaker 3: committed to one another in that space without using the terminology.
Speaker 3: But I can see that it was an important thing
Speaker 3: for him to feel anyway, because he could be quite jealous,
Speaker 3: so if I went out with friends, he would blow
Speaker 3: my phone up and be sending me lots of text
Speaker 3: messages just to not necessarily a way of accusing me
Speaker 3: of anything, but just more I'm here. Let me know
Speaker 3: that you know I'm still important to you as well.
Speaker 3: If you respond, then I know that I'm on your
Speaker 3: mind as much as you're online. So I guess for me,
Speaker 3: it took me at least two to three months longer
Speaker 3: to use that our word. I wanted to ensure that
Speaker 3: I was ready enough then I really did genuinely feel it,
Speaker 3: rather than just saying it to appease him or to
Speaker 3: reassure him, So that in itself was quite a special moment.
Speaker 2: I think of the two of us.
Speaker 3: It was a genuine connection between the two of us.
Speaker 3: There was a lot of really sweet moments, and again
Speaker 3: I think he was very thoughtful. He was very much
Speaker 3: as I think his love language was gift getting. For
Speaker 3: my birthday, he had gone for a walk down to
Speaker 3: the park and just picked a whole lot of flowers
Speaker 3: and sent me photos and said, I'm not with you
Speaker 3: for your birthday, but just so you know, these are
Speaker 3: few and I'm thinking of you, and if you were here,
Speaker 3: i'd be able to give them to you. There was
Speaker 3: a time where he sent me Beats headphones to my
Speaker 3: work that I had sort of said, I'd prefer time
Speaker 3: with you over gifts like and that is something that
Speaker 3: I quality. Time for me much more important than receiving
Speaker 3: these headphones.
Speaker 2: But thank you. That was really thoughtful.
Speaker 3: But continued to do those things, so in a way
Speaker 3: it was this hard thing for me. Well, he's thinking
Speaker 3: of me, and he wants to spend what he has
Speaker 3: on me to let me know because we can't physically
Speaker 3: be together all the time, so he's trying to let
Speaker 3: me know in his own way that he's thinking of me.
Speaker 2: Isn't that what every girl wants? You know?
Speaker 3: You know, a man to send her nice things and
Speaker 3: to be thinking of her and try to make her
Speaker 3: life easy with the things that he's sending, because that
Speaker 3: was something for him too. That he would often send
Speaker 3: me things that I would in a passing comment say
Speaker 3: that I needed, and in a day or two it
Speaker 3: would show up on my doorstep or at the work office.
Speaker 3: And he would often be sending me flowers to the
Speaker 3: office as well, so my desk was always filled in
Speaker 3: different bouquets of flowers. And obviously that there was a
Speaker 3: fair bit of jealousy I think in the office because
Speaker 3: of that, but it was very romantic, so there was
Speaker 3: that side of him letting He was trying to let
Speaker 3: me know that he would take care of me, even
Speaker 3: if he wasn't able to do that there physically.
Speaker 1: But when were they seeing each other physically.
Speaker 3: We were probably seeing each other every three months, and
Speaker 3: if I had to take off a couple of extra
Speaker 3: days from work, then I would do that to have
Speaker 3: a longer period of time with him. But it was
Speaker 3: for the first three years it was me traveling to
Speaker 3: see him getting a plane there, and when I would
Speaker 3: suggest to him that he comes to me, he would say,
Speaker 3: I'm just not ready to do that, and I don't
Speaker 3: think a plane. So there were a couple of times
Speaker 3: I did actually just gone by him a flight and
Speaker 3: he would say, I'm not ready to get on that plane.
Speaker 3: And I'm also someone that struggles a fair bit with
Speaker 3: anxiety too, so I think I really related to some
Speaker 3: of what he was saying and just thought, my goodness,
Speaker 3: this could still really be something if I can help
Speaker 3: him through this. But as someone who has some shared experiences,
Speaker 3: I've been able to create my own tools to move
Speaker 3: past a lot of those feelings, and maybe it takes
Speaker 3: the baby steps, So maybe I have to role model
Speaker 3: some of that to him first and meet him halfway.
Speaker 3: So get him to a point where he's comfortable and
Speaker 3: confident enough in me to be able to support him
Speaker 3: through some of those challenges that he's facing. I think
Speaker 3: I in my head thought, just give him a little
Speaker 3: bit more grace, a little bit more time, and he'll
Speaker 3: be able to push through this.
Speaker 1: The best way she could help for now was not
Speaker 1: forcing him to get on a plane, so she kept
Speaker 1: on flying up to him, but after a few times,
Speaker 1: not even that would always go to plant.
Speaker 3: There were times where I would walk down to go
Speaker 3: and collect him and he would walk straight past me
Speaker 3: and go straight into the elevator. I'd be like, oh, well,
Speaker 3: that's not the way that I was hoping to be
Speaker 3: greeted after not seeing you for a couple of months,
Speaker 3: and he's like, we just need to get up to.
Speaker 2: The room, and his anxiety would be so bad. I
Speaker 2: did make his fortieth birthday very special.
Speaker 3: I had booked hotel room that was overseeing the Sydney
Speaker 3: Harbor Bridge.
Speaker 2: It was stunning.
Speaker 3: I had ordered a whole lot of balloons as well,
Speaker 3: with helium balloons that covered the room, so that when
Speaker 3: he would walk in, there'd be all of these balloons
Speaker 3: and he's got this beautiful sort of sight of the bridge.
Speaker 3: And he, yeah, just stopped messaging me, and so I
Speaker 3: was waiting for him, just sitting there. He showed up
Speaker 3: the next day, and you know when that happens, I
Speaker 3: think the endorphins all kicking and you're all excited again.
Speaker 3: And we were able to spend a little bit of
Speaker 3: time together. But I'd spent a lot of money and
Speaker 3: it had hoped that he'd be more respectful of me
Speaker 3: to at least give me a heads up, but he
Speaker 3: almost turned it around that it was my fault because
Speaker 3: I knew that he was anxious and that he has
Speaker 3: a lot of challenges being able to work up the
Speaker 3: courage to be able to get on public transport to
Speaker 3: come and see me. There was definitely more times where
Speaker 3: he was late or had me feeling really disappointed and
Speaker 3: just sad, really really sad. I think there were the
Speaker 3: times that I would get because I would get dressed up.
Speaker 3: I would spend hours in the morning shower and the
Speaker 3: hair and the makeup and picking the perfect outfit, even
Speaker 3: though I knew we were just going to sit in
Speaker 3: that room, we weren't going to go anywhere, but it
Speaker 3: was just a I want to look good for you,
Speaker 3: and I want you to be impressed when you see me.
Speaker 3: It was also a time where I assumed he was coming.
Speaker 3: It was actually my thirtieth birthday. I purchased a flight
Speaker 3: for him to come and see me, and I just
Speaker 3: didn't hear from him. It was absolutely just went mia
Speaker 3: And obviously my response to that was really pissed off
Speaker 3: with you. You know, this was my thirtieth birthday. You
Speaker 3: had an opportunity to make that really special. But not
Speaker 3: only are you not showing up, you just disappear. I
Speaker 3: think I messaged him that morning because I knew that
Speaker 3: he was supposed to be on the flight, and I
Speaker 3: messaged a few times and it was like, I'm hoping
Speaker 3: that you're at the airport, or I hope you have
Speaker 3: a safe flight, and there was just nothing, and so
Speaker 3: at that point that he should have been on the flight,
Speaker 3: I just texted and said I assume you're not coming,
Speaker 3: and didn't get anything for several hours afterwards. But when
Speaker 3: he did reply, it was a you know that I
Speaker 3: wasn't going to come anyway, and I was like, well, no,
Speaker 3: I didn't. You would agreed to I knew that there
Speaker 3: was a chance that you wouldn't, because obviously, you know
Speaker 3: your anxiety has been so significant up until this point. However,
Speaker 3: you told me that you want to be there, and
Speaker 3: I did think for my thirtieth birthday that you would
Speaker 3: do everything in your power to push through in a
Speaker 3: way that I would for you. I tried giving him
Speaker 3: the tools because I was like, I understand anxiety enough
Speaker 3: that you need a little bit more help than just
Speaker 3: what I'm offering. So I said to him, I understand
Speaker 3: that you're probably gonna have to go and see your
Speaker 3: doctor and ask for a mental health care treatment plan.
Speaker 3: I think therapy would be fantastic, and I think therapy
Speaker 3: would be fantastic for everyone, but also you're likely to
Speaker 3: need medication because of how significant your anxiety is. And
Speaker 3: there was always these excuses for him as to why
Speaker 3: he couldn't do that. So for the first three years,
Speaker 3: every two to three months, I would go and be
Speaker 3: in that same situation where I would just sit and cry,
Speaker 3: and I was absolutely devastated every single time. Because I
Speaker 3: always thought that it would be different. It became incredibly
Speaker 3: financially challenging for me. He would where he could, he
Speaker 3: would absolutely contribute, you know, on occasion. There were times
Speaker 3: where he absolutely would pay for a flight. But I
Speaker 3: started realizing quite early on it as well that the
Speaker 3: way that he would get his money he was uncent
Speaker 3: to link. But that wasn't enough for him to live,
Speaker 3: let alone be able to provide anything. So horse racing
Speaker 3: was something that he had a keen interest in and
Speaker 3: it became significantly gambling generally on the Fridays and Saturdays
Speaker 3: with the big days for him. When he first started
Speaker 3: talking about the gambling it, he wasn't using those terms
Speaker 3: of gamble you know, it was very much like I
Speaker 3: struggle financially because I cannot work because of my anxiety
Speaker 3: being so significant that I need to find other ways
Speaker 3: to make money, and the way that.
Speaker 2: Works best for me is horses.
Speaker 3: He'd said in the past he had come to Melbourne
Speaker 3: and he'd gone to the races and made this much money,
Speaker 3: and he's like, it's just something I like doing because
Speaker 3: it's a little bit of extra cash. Then I know
Speaker 3: my rent's paid, but I might be able to get
Speaker 3: myself some shoes as well without extra cash. But it's
Speaker 3: something that I'm really good at, that I've always been
Speaker 3: good at, and that's how I'll make my extra cash
Speaker 3: until I'm able to get myself a job. So for me,
Speaker 3: it was kind of like, I can understand it's just
Speaker 3: a means to an end. But as time went on,
Speaker 3: and it was every Friday and Saturday, and then his
Speaker 3: mood would shift depending on whether or not he would
Speaker 3: win or lose.
Speaker 2: If he lost a lot.
Speaker 3: Of money, he'd go silent on me, and then it
Speaker 3: would be things he would say, things like, you take
Speaker 3: up all my time, so I can't study the form.
Speaker 3: So if I didn't have this time with you, and
Speaker 3: it wasn't focusing on you. Then maybe I would have money,
Speaker 3: and maybe I would have all these things in my
Speaker 3: life that I want and I need, and I would
Speaker 3: allow the way that he reacted to me or responded
Speaker 3: to me affect my overall wellbeing. I think so if
Speaker 3: he was mad at me, then I would just feel
Speaker 3: really crappy for the rest of the day, and I
Speaker 3: would then do everything I could to try to make
Speaker 3: it up to him, because I could see that he
Speaker 3: was spending a lot of time on me, and I
Speaker 3: could see that it might stop him from doing those things.
Speaker 1: This brought in another even bigger issue between them, one
Speaker 1: that could have and maybe should have broken them, and
Speaker 1: well did kind of.
Speaker 2: We would break up every three days pretty much without fail.
Speaker 3: There would be an argument between the two of us,
Speaker 3: where it would either be it would be either of
Speaker 3: us initiating that. It might be just me saying this
Speaker 3: isn't working for me, this is not I want what
Speaker 3: I want, or it would be him saying, actually, I
Speaker 3: need to focus in on myself and get myself sorted.
Speaker 3: I can't be with someone right now. And the fights
Speaker 3: were bad, they were really bad, and it kind of
Speaker 3: almost just started to feel like a bit normal, and
Speaker 3: I knew it wasn't like you know in your head
Speaker 3: it isn't, but you also when you want something so badly,
Speaker 3: and I think for me, I didn't have anything to
Speaker 3: compare it to, and I don't think he did either,
Speaker 3: So it kind of felt like, well, the fighting is
Speaker 3: because we love each other so much.
Speaker 2: It's passion.
Speaker 3: And he would use those words. If I had asked
Speaker 3: him to describe our relationship all love, he would say
Speaker 3: it's all consuming and intoxicating, and he would use that
Speaker 3: sort of language to describe our relationship, which I'd just
Speaker 3: be like, oh, wow, someone feels that way.
Speaker 2: Wow, there's such beautiful.
Speaker 3: Works and then really not, they're really not be in
Speaker 3: those moments, you're you're absolutely yeah. Like I was besotted
Speaker 3: with him still, but it was his.
Speaker 2: Push and pull. He could get nasty as well.
Speaker 3: There were times where he would make really awful comments
Speaker 3: about my body, and the one thing that I refused
Speaker 3: to ever do was do the same to him, so
Speaker 3: I would never ever comment about him physically. In those moments,
Speaker 3: I think they go hard. So when we would have
Speaker 3: those fights, he would then come back and be like,
Speaker 3: that was an awful thing for me to say and
Speaker 3: apologize and aget. In your head, you're like, Okay, they
Speaker 3: realize that they've done something wrong and they say they
Speaker 3: won't do it again, and unfortunately it was something.
Speaker 2: That would continue.
Speaker 3: It was really hard for me to reconcile how someone
Speaker 3: who says that they're in love with me so deeply
Speaker 3: could say such awful things about me. But yet obviously
Speaker 3: then he would try to do the repair work. And
Speaker 3: still in my head it was like, the good times
Speaker 3: are great, but for me it was this awareness with
Speaker 3: the bad times are incredibly bad, and is this what
Speaker 3: love is?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: You see the movies and you sort of see that
Speaker 3: there's this deep and really awful things happen, but in
Speaker 3: the end they end up together.
Speaker 2: It's all happy endings.
Speaker 3: So even though I kind of had a lot of
Speaker 3: my friends saying this guy is not good for you,
Speaker 3: none of this is good for you, for me, it
Speaker 3: was almost trying to let my friends and family know
Speaker 3: that I understand where they're all coming from. I get it.
Speaker 3: I'm not stupid. However, I'm just not ready to end
Speaker 3: things yet. And also I feel like I've got some
Speaker 3: work to do with him. I'm not ready to give
Speaker 3: up on this. Those fights I would say were more
Speaker 3: regular than anything, but the days in between for the
Speaker 3: things that kept me coming back, And that's always I
Speaker 3: think that the challenge there that you're just like, but
Speaker 3: it could get better, because I can see the connection
Speaker 3: is so strong on those days that we're not fighting.
Speaker 3: And then obviously you know once you you have a
Speaker 3: bit of a breakup, but you get back together, there's
Speaker 3: all the love stuff that happens although you again and
Speaker 3: all of those feelings all again, which was just so
Speaker 3: strong that they felt like they took over.
Speaker 1: As time went on, the problems and the blame got
Speaker 1: worse and harder for Gen to see herself getting out of.
Speaker 3: There was a couple of conversations late at night and
Speaker 3: we would both be up on the phone, even though
Speaker 3: I had worked the next day. I'd be up on
Speaker 3: the phone with him because he would make comments about
Speaker 3: how he wasn't going to be able to go on
Speaker 3: and that he would need to harm himself or kill himself,
Speaker 3: and so I was like, well, I can't get off
Speaker 3: the phone now and just say hey, I've got work tomorrow,
Speaker 3: so I've got to go to sleep. I would stay
Speaker 3: up and try to support him. Feel like those conversations
Speaker 3: were quite regular and terrifying. You don't want to hear
Speaker 3: anybody say that they feel that they don't have any
Speaker 3: other choice but to go down that path. And I
Speaker 3: would try to problem solve with him, and he'd gotten
Speaker 3: to a point as well where we had discussed that
Speaker 3: maybe he needs to look at accessing his superannuation, and
Speaker 3: he ended up doing that. Now that I know that
Speaker 3: he doesn't have anything left, that's still a concern because
Speaker 3: you think, okay, if you tap into that, which I
Speaker 3: know is not easy as well, it's really sort of
Speaker 3: dire if they're going to approve that he had sourced
Speaker 3: everything that he could at that point. So I did
Speaker 3: feel sorry for him. Even when I felt there was
Speaker 3: another way to do things, he wasn't able to bring
Speaker 3: himself to get there. So yeah, for me, it was, oh,
Speaker 3: this is a problem, this is a major problem. Let
Speaker 3: me try to help you and his contacts. Let's do
Speaker 3: some research about some other avenues that we can try.
Speaker 3: But for him that was always a reason as to
Speaker 3: why he could not do that. It was always anxiety.
Speaker 3: It was challenging for him to leave the house at all.
Speaker 3: So the only time he would really leave would be
Speaker 3: at nighttime and he would walk to the colls. He
Speaker 3: would only ever use self checkout. If there was anyone
Speaker 3: to speak to, he wouldn't do it. He would actually
Speaker 3: just see it, drop the basket and leave. And that's
Speaker 3: pretty much the only time he would go out, which
Speaker 3: also caused issues because he would have to have appointments
Speaker 3: with the centraling office and the job provider, and a
Speaker 3: lot of those appointments he would cancel too, but they
Speaker 3: would say, you need a certificate. If you're saying that
Speaker 3: you have anxiety and that's why you can't work, then
Speaker 3: we need a certificate.
Speaker 2: And then he couldn't go to the doctor because his
Speaker 2: anxiety was too high to get there.
Speaker 1: There is another part to this, Dear Listener that Jen
Speaker 1: hasn't mentioned yet. Outside of the relationship, she of course
Speaker 1: had a life and career of her own, and that
Speaker 1: career was in the mental health space, working with people
Speaker 1: who battled with these exact issues.
Speaker 3: And I wonder if for a lot of other people
Speaker 3: it'd be like, what the hell's going on here? You're
Speaker 3: a huge mess. But I also wonder, with what I
Speaker 3: do for a living, if for me I was like
Speaker 3: I see this every day. It was obviously a concern,
Speaker 3: but I was also like, because I work with this,
Speaker 3: I've got some tools for you, and this is how
Speaker 3: I would approach this with clients. And that obviously changed
Speaker 3: the dynamic between us two because it became more of
Speaker 3: a caseworker and client dynamic. So yeah, there was that
Speaker 3: challenge I think as well, and it was just I
Speaker 3: can fix him. It might have been an extended period
Speaker 3: time between we've seen each other, and we would say
Speaker 3: to one another, it's okay, we will be together again
Speaker 3: and everything will be better, Like the two of us
Speaker 3: will be happy in those moments, and we know that
Speaker 3: we can make each other's lives better and we would
Speaker 3: absolutely hold on to that soul. I would be looking
Speaker 3: at the calendar for the next year, for the next
Speaker 3: twelve months, and I'd be looking through for all of
Speaker 3: the public holidays so that I knew that I could
Speaker 3: spend an extended period of time with him, because that's
Speaker 3: really all I was needing to be able to get
Speaker 3: through to that next moment. It felt almost like I
Speaker 3: was living for those moments that I would see him again,
Speaker 3: because it was it was the most exciting thing in
Speaker 3: my life at that time, in between the monotony.
Speaker 2: Of work, when we were together, it absolutely was.
Speaker 3: It just felt electric and I think we didn't want
Speaker 3: to stop touching each other.
Speaker 2: It felt new all the time. So yeah, I did.
Speaker 3: As much as I wanted to go out and have
Speaker 3: experiences with him, I ultimately just wanted to be with
Speaker 3: him and he was giving me that. So for me
Speaker 3: it felt almost like, well, you can't complain too much
Speaker 3: because really there's this electricity between us when we're together
Speaker 3: and we talk about anything and everything, and I felt
Speaker 3: like we could get really deep on an emotional level
Speaker 3: or a philosophical level, and that wasn't necessarily something that
Speaker 3: I was used to either, But yeah, we would challenge
Speaker 3: each other in a way that it was just like,
Speaker 3: let's talk all night. That's where we're happy, just talking
Speaker 3: all night about anything and everything. I absolutely think that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: the fact that I was his first kiss, we were
Speaker 3: both together sexually, you know that we were really we
Speaker 3: had only ever said I love you to each other,
Speaker 3: assuming first for us together, that bonded us in a
Speaker 3: way that you can't ever really break.
Speaker 1: If this was ever going to work, there was one
Speaker 1: non negotiable step Jen needed from Steve. She needed him
Speaker 1: to make the trip to her. It couldn't keep being
Speaker 1: one sided.
Speaker 3: It was after the three year mark that he did
Speaker 3: finally come to see me. He got on the lie
Speaker 3: eleven hour train ride.
Speaker 2: I'm just sitting there and counting down the minutes and
Speaker 2: be like, whereabouts are you? Now?
Speaker 3: Let me follow your route along the way, and it
Speaker 3: was a holy crap, this is actually happening. Here's that
Speaker 3: step that I have been waiting for. Yes, it's three
Speaker 3: years in, but I put my time in and maybe
Speaker 3: this is paying off. Maybe he is willing to try
Speaker 3: for me and make sure that he needs to do
Speaker 3: what he has to do to have a life together.
Speaker 3: You're here now I get to share my life with you.
Speaker 3: This is what it's going to look like.
Speaker 2: So there were you know, as soon as I picked
Speaker 2: him up. I remember sitting.
Speaker 3: Out something across station actually and just waiting and just
Speaker 3: being like, where is he. I'm going to be watching
Speaker 3: every single person come out of that train station, just
Speaker 3: waiting to see him. And it was probably one of
Speaker 3: the most exciting moments of my entire life, to be honest.
Speaker 3: And he walked out with his bag and I remember
Speaker 3: just watching him then walk down the street, and in
Speaker 3: a way I didn't even want to call out because
Speaker 3: I just was saving that moment. But it was just this,
Speaker 3: you're here, you are finally here, and this is what
Speaker 3: I've been waiting for for the last three years, and
Speaker 3: now what does this mean for our future? And I
Speaker 3: didn't want to get ahead of myself because I really
Speaker 3: did give him the if you can make it to Melbourne,
Speaker 3: I'll stop giving you a hard time, because what else.
Speaker 2: Have I got? You did the thing, You did the
Speaker 2: thing that I'd be needing.
Speaker 1: But it didn't go to plan. Even when he was
Speaker 1: there in Melbourne, his anxiety was too much. He couldn't
Speaker 1: or wouldn't leave the house. This devastated Jen. She'd finally
Speaker 1: thought Steve could see the life.
Speaker 2: They could have together.
Speaker 3: He's sitting at my house general in bad while I'm
Speaker 3: at work, and I would come home and find him
Speaker 3: in the exact same spot that I left him that morning.
Speaker 3: And it was yet this real realization of You're not
Speaker 3: contributing in any way, and I'm starting to feel like
Speaker 3: you are my dependent and when you start to change
Speaker 3: up that dynamic in a relationship. It wasn't something that
Speaker 3: I wanted. I got the cabin fever at home, and
Speaker 3: so I was like, let's jump in the car. We're
Speaker 3: going for a drive. And we went up to the
Speaker 3: Pink Lake a pin Dimbula and it was something that
Speaker 3: I'd always wanted to do, and I had just seen
Speaker 3: photos and thought, amazing, what a beautiful day out for
Speaker 3: the two of us that we could go on a
Speaker 3: nice date. We had done the drive up and we
Speaker 3: sort of pulled over it and there weren't too many
Speaker 3: cars there, and I thought, well, this is amazing. We
Speaker 3: were pretty much have the whole place to ourselves. And
Speaker 3: he just refused to get out of the car, and
Speaker 3: it didn't matter what I said to him. I tried
Speaker 3: to explain that there was no one there, and I
Speaker 3: said all you need to do is and it wasn't
Speaker 3: far I tried to explain to him. I was like,
Speaker 3: I'll go down there myself it sussed out, and come
Speaker 3: back and report so that you know that there's nothing
Speaker 3: to worry about. But yet he absolutely refused to get
Speaker 3: out of the car. And it made me really sad
Speaker 3: as I because I thought, I'm not giving up on
Speaker 3: this opportunity. I'm going down there myself but and if
Speaker 3: that's the case, And I did do that myself, but
Speaker 3: there was this huge sadness and sense of life. I
Speaker 3: guess of he's here with me, but he just can't
Speaker 3: get out of the car. And what does that mean
Speaker 3: for any sort of life that we have together. If
Speaker 3: we're not doing anything together, we're not experiencing life together.
Speaker 3: How do you grow together? If that's the case, you'll
Speaker 3: never meet any of my friends or come to parties
Speaker 3: or weddings or funerals with me to support me. And
Speaker 3: it was this major realization that really just broke my
Speaker 3: heart in that moment, because it was You've got everything here.
Speaker 3: Everything you ever wanted is here, and everything I ever wanted,
Speaker 3: and you can't bring yourself to take these steps. So
Speaker 3: once I sort of got back in the car, he
Speaker 3: sensed that I was very sad I think about it,
Speaker 3: and he said, well, park around the corner. And so
Speaker 3: we'd gone and driven a little bit further down and
Speaker 3: the only way that he would get out of the
Speaker 3: car was when there was no one around and we
Speaker 3: were in the middle of the bush like that was
Speaker 3: really like you couldn't see the lake from where he
Speaker 3: was willing to get out of the car. It was
Speaker 3: just full of shrub and I was like, well, now
Speaker 3: I'm just getting bitten by bugs, So I don't really
Speaker 3: this is no longer romantic or call or fun. This
Speaker 3: wasn't the experience that I wanted. I think that then
Speaker 3: just yes solidified that to me, and you know, you
Speaker 3: do sort of question, You're like, well, do you just
Speaker 3: not want to be seen with me? Is there more here?
Speaker 3: Is it more going on for you than just feeling
Speaker 3: his anxiety? And please try to explain it to me.
Speaker 3: What's your experience? What are your symptoms that you notice?
Speaker 3: Because I did try to help him through all of that,
Speaker 3: but it was always.
Speaker 2: Still for me.
Speaker 3: At some point, I have to be selfish and this
Speaker 3: isn't This isn't what I want out of life. Yes,
Speaker 3: you're here with me, but I'm giving up and I'm
Speaker 3: sacrificing everything I ever wanted. I want a partner to
Speaker 3: travel with. I want to see the world. I want
Speaker 3: to do new things. I want to do things that
Speaker 3: scare me. And that was just not where he was at.
Speaker 3: And how am I supposed to live with this? What
Speaker 3: happens if I get pregnant? And that for me set
Speaker 3: me into a spiral because it was this worst case
Speaker 3: in It like an absolute nightmare for me to consider
Speaker 3: that I may end up pregnant with his child and
Speaker 3: have to go to all of those appointments myself. It
Speaker 3: would be he'd be they're still with his mum and
Speaker 3: he would never really see the child unless I were
Speaker 3: to bring that child into Steak and that terrified me
Speaker 3: to think.
Speaker 1: This realization fell on Jen like a ton of bricks,
Speaker 1: but she didn't know what to do. They had another
Speaker 1: weekend booked in together, this time a trip away on
Speaker 1: the fourth anniversary of their first meeting. Would it be
Speaker 1: make or break.
Speaker 2: Again Valentine's Day? I think it was twenty twenty.
Speaker 3: We had gone away and gotten an airbnb and we
Speaker 3: had this beautiful time together. But the end of that
Speaker 3: I think I had gotten a flat tire. At the time,
Speaker 3: I had gone over something and he wasn't even able
Speaker 3: to get out of the car and really help me.
Speaker 3: He did eventually do it by looking at a YouTube
Speaker 3: c lip, but I just went through this panic of
Speaker 3: he can't help me in a lot of situations. So
Speaker 3: that was sort of the start of me saying I'm
Speaker 3: on my own. I'm very much just doing the role
Speaker 3: of everything right now, and it's not what I want.
Speaker 1: She couldn't keep going, but how is she going to
Speaker 1: wind it? She felt immense guilt about his mental little
Speaker 1: health and not being able to help him get better.
Speaker 1: But did you pick up on the timing of that
Speaker 1: Airbnb trip, dear listener? It was February twenty twenty.
Speaker 3: It would have been earlier on in some of the
Speaker 3: shutdowns in Melbourne during COVID times that I realized, well,
Speaker 3: we can't even see each other even if we wanted to,
Speaker 3: that idea that we would be locked down in different states,
Speaker 3: and how long is this going to go for? I
Speaker 3: had no idea, nobody else did either, and I couldn't
Speaker 3: give us an indication of when we would be able
Speaker 3: to get back to any sense of normalcy in or
Speaker 3: normal life. And I didn't want to waste any more time.
Speaker 3: Had previously made comments to him about how maybe we
Speaker 3: should consider open relationships because I wanted opportunities to be
Speaker 3: able to explore other connections with people. If he wasn't
Speaker 3: able to ever commit fully to me in a way
Speaker 3: that I wanted him to by me moving with me
Speaker 3: in Melbourne, and he would always shut it down. So
Speaker 3: I think when the lockdowns happened, I almost took it
Speaker 3: upon myself, I think, to continue to explore things. It
Speaker 3: was also the push that I needed that took I mean,
Speaker 3: it was a choice that was removed from me. Lockdowns
Speaker 3: were lockdowns. The choice that I had was to open
Speaker 3: myself up to the connections with others. All of a
Speaker 3: sudden that changed everything, and there was this excitement of
Speaker 3: there are other men potentially out there for me that
Speaker 3: I could have connections with that actually have incredible qualities
Speaker 3: and traits that are a better fit.
Speaker 1: So she dipped her toe back into online dating.
Speaker 3: So it was really difficult because I would start talking
Speaker 3: to someone and then he would jump back in and
Speaker 3: it wasn't appropriate or fair on my behalf to do
Speaker 3: what I did, because I think I wasn't open and
Speaker 3: honest with him a lot of the times when I
Speaker 3: was talking to others, and it was him being sexually
Speaker 3: inappropriate and sending me text messages about things that we
Speaker 3: had done together, and it was almost a reminiscent of
Speaker 3: all I missed doing this with you, And it was
Speaker 3: almost this realization for him of well, I don't actually
Speaker 3: want to break up because every were really good times
Speaker 3: with us, so I thought, well, this relationship was more
Speaker 3: than just sex.
Speaker 2: For me.
Speaker 3: It was a lot more than that. And it felt
Speaker 3: like he was dwindling everything just down to something physical,
Speaker 3: which yeah, again made me really sad, but also felt
Speaker 3: incredibly degrading as well. It was really this dismissal of
Speaker 3: the connection that we had for something physical. And at
Speaker 3: that point I had sort of said to Steve, I
Speaker 3: can't see.
Speaker 2: Us seeing each other again.
Speaker 3: I thought, no, I'm not going to sit here and
Speaker 3: be waiting to see him again. I don't know how
Speaker 3: long that will be. I've got too much life to
Speaker 3: live still. I'm still young enough and pretty enough to
Speaker 3: meet someone else and to have ongoing experiences and continue
Speaker 3: to grow than to wait.
Speaker 2: For a man to be ready.
Speaker 1: So finally, after almost five years, Jen told Steve this
Speaker 1: was it.
Speaker 3: I had messaged him and said, this will be the
Speaker 3: last breakup. There's nothing left that I had to say,
Speaker 3: because we've had so many breakups before that we've actually
Speaker 3: said it all. I'm like that this will be the
Speaker 3: last time. I don't feel like I need to say
Speaker 3: anything else. I don't need anything else from this because
Speaker 3: I know it won't lead to anything, and I was
Speaker 3: feeling really confident in that, and I think him feeling
Speaker 3: quite hurt, probably very very rejected as well, just went
Speaker 3: straight on to the attack.
Speaker 2: I think, and.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's really really awful things. And I got to
Speaker 3: the point where it's like, I don't need to listen
Speaker 3: to this. I don't need to feel sorry for you
Speaker 3: and feel like you need your closure, So i'll give
Speaker 3: you that. You're now just being so incredibly offensive and
Speaker 3: degrading if someone you said you loved. I'm not listening
Speaker 3: to this anymore and hit the block button. He then
Speaker 3: utilized email and used a few different platforms to try
Speaker 3: to communicate so that he could continue to say his piece,
Speaker 3: and unfortunately he kind of went back and forth with
Speaker 3: the I love you, I'm sorry, things should have been different, and.
Speaker 2: You're an awful person.
Speaker 3: You'll never find anyone else. Me telling him that I
Speaker 3: had seen other men resulted in him being very angry
Speaker 3: and becoming very nasty towards me.
Speaker 2: I think every.
Speaker 3: Time I started to question whether or I had made
Speaker 3: the right decision, there would be an email or one
Speaker 3: of those little notes on a different platform again having
Speaker 3: a go at me. So I had to go through
Speaker 3: that for a bit of time. But he also needed
Speaker 3: that time, I think, to be able to vent and
Speaker 3: get his frustrations at I just didn't want to respond
Speaker 3: to give any more ammunition to that. Just do your
Speaker 3: think and yeah, I'll try moving on the best that
Speaker 3: I can. It's funny because I think that I thought
Speaker 3: that I was going to miss him, but it's almost
Speaker 3: like I had done all that grieving throughout the relationship,
Speaker 3: the tears, the amount of tears that I had shed
Speaker 3: for this person during the relationship. I had nothing left
Speaker 3: at that point. Once I had made that decision to
Speaker 3: end it, it was done. But I could see this
Speaker 3: whole future for myself. That really excited me. There was
Speaker 3: a whole new sense of confidence that came with that
Speaker 3: that it was I've made the biggest decision of my
Speaker 3: life up until now. I gave someone five years of
Speaker 3: my life, and now I'm so ready to tackle new things.
Speaker 3: I went and did a couple of trips overseas and
Speaker 3: did that solo and met a whole lot of new people.
Speaker 3: I had experienced it as I'd always wanted and didn't
Speaker 3: let anyone stop me, or the fact that I didn't
Speaker 3: have someone to share it with. I was going to
Speaker 3: make those experiences my own and do the best that
Speaker 3: I possibly could with those So I felt like I
Speaker 3: had grown so much more into such a short space
Speaker 3: of time because of that. I think the supports that
Speaker 3: I tapped into was my best friend. I've known her
Speaker 3: since I was thirteen, so being able to share those
Speaker 3: experiences with her, cry on her shoulder during the happy
Speaker 3: and the really sad times, I don't know what I
Speaker 3: would have done without her. And I think besides that,
Speaker 3: then it was the journaling I've got about ten that
Speaker 3: had just filled with stuff about Steve like it really is,
Speaker 3: And I find it helpful to be able to read
Speaker 3: back to that, to be able to reflect on my
Speaker 3: own thoughts and feelings during that time and the way
Speaker 3: that I behaved or the way that he behaved, and
Speaker 3: what would I do differently from that. If they're not
Speaker 3: a right fit, they're not a right fee. You're supposed
Speaker 3: to just go your separate ways. You're not supposed to
Speaker 3: continually go at them about how they need to be better.
Speaker 3: You do look back and you think you've wasted a
Speaker 3: lot of time, But where we were both at that
Speaker 3: time in our lives.
Speaker 2: It's like we needed each other.
Speaker 3: And there was a lot of learning I think for
Speaker 3: the both of us, and I would like to think
Speaker 3: that he's learned a lot from the relationship. So I
Speaker 3: do think that that was a large chapter, a very
Speaker 3: large chapter that I can put down and sort of say, well,
Speaker 3: that was my first experience of love, and that's not
Speaker 3: what I want being forward. But there are definitely elements
Speaker 3: from that that I have appreciated so much about him
Speaker 3: as a person and what that's meant for me as
Speaker 3: a person, what I can give back. I've not seen
Speaker 3: him again. I did actually hear from him six months ago.
Speaker 3: He did send me a text message and say, I've
Speaker 3: just put you down as a reference for a rental property.
Speaker 3: I'm still living with my mum and my brother, but
Speaker 3: I need to put someone down and I don't know
Speaker 3: anyone else. And that made me feel really sad, really
Speaker 3: sad that he literally did not have a single person
Speaker 3: in his life besides his brother and mother who he
Speaker 3: can't put down because they're moving into the same property
Speaker 3: that he could ask that he had to come to
Speaker 3: his ex. I do hope that he can get to
Speaker 3: a point where he addresses his mental health in a
Speaker 3: meaningful way. I would love to see him have more
Speaker 3: quality of life, because I don't think he has that.
Speaker 3: For me now, I am newly married, or got married
Speaker 3: four months ago, to a lovely guy. He is beautiful,
Speaker 3: and we just found out that we were pregnant. I'm
Speaker 3: going our first baby on the way, so that's incredibly
Speaker 3: exciting for us. Got a house as well that we're living,
Speaker 3: and I love my job, and I just think that
Speaker 3: this is the best place that I've ever been in.
Speaker 3: And if I think back to sort of five years,
Speaker 3: this is everything that I wanted for my future, and
Speaker 3: it can sometimes feel like a bit of a dream,
Speaker 3: I think to finally get there. I absolutely think that
Speaker 3: if I hadn't met Steve and met him at that time,
Speaker 3: the things that I have now wouldn't have aligned, because
Speaker 3: I think, obviously I know that my partner was in
Speaker 3: a relationship at that time, that we both needed to
Speaker 3: have these experiences at that time to then come together
Speaker 3: and to meet one another when we did. So. I
Speaker 3: do hope that then that's the same for Steve, that
Speaker 3: he's able to get to a point in his life
Speaker 3: where everything will fall into the pieces that they're supposed to.
Speaker 1: Everyone Has an ex is a Minti Media production and
Speaker 1: proudly part of the Mumma Mea Network. This episode is
Speaker 1: written and narrated and interview conducted by me Georgia Love
Speaker 1: and produced by Linda Scott. If you have a story
Speaker 1: you'd like to share, email podcast at momamea dot com
Speaker 1: dot a U. You can support us by following the
Speaker 1: show in your favorite podcast app and leaving a five
Speaker 1: star review.
Speaker 2: We'll see for the next one.