1 00:00:05,799 --> 00:00:13,639 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mom with mea podcast. Welcome back everyone, 2 00:00:13,879 --> 00:00:16,959 Speaker 1: I'm a Shani Dante and this is but Are You Happy? 3 00:00:17,399 --> 00:00:21,039 Speaker 1: Amma Mer podcast, committed to exploring your mental health, whether 4 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: you've requested that exploration or not. 5 00:00:23,679 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 2: And good to be with you all again. I'm doctor 6 00:00:25,759 --> 00:00:27,839 Speaker 2: Anna SAJIANONUS clinical psychologist. 7 00:00:28,159 --> 00:00:30,919 Speaker 1: If you've clicked on this episode, chances are you've heard 8 00:00:30,919 --> 00:00:35,319 Speaker 1: the term family systems or intergenerational trauma being thrown around 9 00:00:35,319 --> 00:00:38,599 Speaker 1: a bit, or maybe you've just started to wonder which 10 00:00:38,639 --> 00:00:41,719 Speaker 1: parts in your inner world are actually yours and which 11 00:00:41,759 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 1: parts have actually been handed down to you. 12 00:00:43,839 --> 00:00:47,399 Speaker 2: Today we're going to be diving into what intergenerational trauma 13 00:00:47,559 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 2: actually is, how it gets passed down and how you 14 00:00:50,879 --> 00:00:53,359 Speaker 2: can notice the patterns so that you don't repeat the 15 00:00:53,439 --> 00:00:55,399 Speaker 2: cycles and in fact you break them. 16 00:00:55,639 --> 00:01:02,359 Speaker 1: Let's get into it. I know previously when we've had 17 00:01:02,439 --> 00:01:06,559 Speaker 1: conversations around trauma, the tendency in our conversations is we 18 00:01:06,599 --> 00:01:09,079 Speaker 1: do go back to, you know, how we were raised 19 00:01:09,159 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 1: or our family, and it does get me thinking about trauma, 20 00:01:14,119 --> 00:01:17,559 Speaker 1: but intergenerational trauma and how that's being handed down, And 21 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:20,239 Speaker 1: to be honest, I think the term is quite a 22 00:01:20,279 --> 00:01:23,519 Speaker 1: big word, there's like a lot in it, and I'm 23 00:01:23,559 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 1: really keen to hear from you, like, what actually is 24 00:01:26,239 --> 00:01:27,439 Speaker 1: intergenerational trauma? 25 00:01:27,559 --> 00:01:29,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good place for us to start, and 26 00:01:29,439 --> 00:01:32,839 Speaker 2: I think you're absolutely right. We've certainly become more aware 27 00:01:32,919 --> 00:01:36,999 Speaker 2: of intergenerational trauma being something that exists, and with that awareness, 28 00:01:37,039 --> 00:01:40,639 Speaker 2: we see more and more conversation, research and discussion had 29 00:01:40,679 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 2: about it. Intergenerational trauma can sometimes be referred to as 30 00:01:44,479 --> 00:01:48,359 Speaker 2: transgenerational or multigenerational trauma, but I guess sort of similar 31 00:01:48,439 --> 00:01:51,719 Speaker 2: terms meaning the same thing. And this is essentially when 32 00:01:51,759 --> 00:01:55,359 Speaker 2: trauma is passed down from one generation to the next, 33 00:01:55,879 --> 00:02:00,519 Speaker 2: but without necessarily that direct experience of the trauma. So 34 00:02:00,639 --> 00:02:05,399 Speaker 2: this sense of a generation passing on often sometimes gene 35 00:02:05,399 --> 00:02:09,399 Speaker 2: expressions of trauma to their children, even though the children 36 00:02:09,479 --> 00:02:11,759 Speaker 2: haven't experienced the trauma that the parents went through. 37 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,679 Speaker 1: It's really interesting because I think in a lot of 38 00:02:15,879 --> 00:02:18,199 Speaker 1: I don't know, just the algorithms and the spaces that 39 00:02:18,239 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 1: I'm in, Like in that self development space, you hear 40 00:02:20,679 --> 00:02:25,039 Speaker 1: that term being thrown around a lot, but like, I 41 00:02:25,079 --> 00:02:26,719 Speaker 1: don't know, it's not that it can be woo woo. 42 00:02:27,119 --> 00:02:29,319 Speaker 1: It's like, because I'm a woo wuo goal. Like, I 43 00:02:29,359 --> 00:02:31,799 Speaker 1: love the spiritual and stuff, but it sounds like it 44 00:02:31,879 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 1: is becoming more in the mainstream and it feels like 45 00:02:33,959 --> 00:02:37,319 Speaker 1: there is like science behind intergenerational trauma too. 46 00:02:37,559 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 2: Oh absolutely yeah, that fascinating behind it. I mean, we 47 00:02:40,759 --> 00:02:44,239 Speaker 2: have like so so much well documented both kind of 48 00:02:44,239 --> 00:02:48,719 Speaker 2: psychological literature but also biological literature that looks at intergenerational 49 00:02:48,759 --> 00:02:52,279 Speaker 2: trauma and how it's passed down between generations. And particularly 50 00:02:52,359 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 2: when we look at families who have lived through war, genocide, 51 00:02:57,479 --> 00:03:01,959 Speaker 2: any kind of severe adversity, they've been displaced in some way, 52 00:03:02,199 --> 00:03:04,479 Speaker 2: we are able to kind of look at how gene 53 00:03:05,039 --> 00:03:07,719 Speaker 2: are passed down from one generation to the next to 54 00:03:07,719 --> 00:03:11,439 Speaker 2: be able to kind of explore this pattern of intergenerational 55 00:03:11,479 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 2: trauma that we see. 56 00:03:12,599 --> 00:03:15,679 Speaker 1: So what is the science behind intergenerational trauma? 57 00:03:16,519 --> 00:03:18,439 Speaker 2: Well, I guess this is where we have an opportunity 58 00:03:18,479 --> 00:03:20,959 Speaker 2: to delve a little bit more into the science of 59 00:03:21,399 --> 00:03:24,039 Speaker 2: I guess the body in human biology, which we haven't 60 00:03:24,079 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 2: done as much on this podcast. We've done a lot 61 00:03:26,079 --> 00:03:30,239 Speaker 2: of like brain and neuroscience kind of related discussions, but 62 00:03:31,119 --> 00:03:32,119 Speaker 2: less biology. 63 00:03:32,359 --> 00:03:34,879 Speaker 1: So biology, want to on biology, want to on? 64 00:03:34,999 --> 00:03:37,199 Speaker 2: Here we go, We're going to be talking about DNA 65 00:03:37,439 --> 00:03:41,679 Speaker 2: and genes and epigenetics. So let's just kind of break 66 00:03:41,679 --> 00:03:44,319 Speaker 2: it down for a sex. So DNA, right, it's kind 67 00:03:44,319 --> 00:03:47,999 Speaker 2: of the molecules that we have that carry hereditary information 68 00:03:48,439 --> 00:03:51,079 Speaker 2: that gets passed on from one generation to the next, 69 00:03:51,519 --> 00:03:54,959 Speaker 2: and then we have our genetics. So our genes are 70 00:03:55,399 --> 00:04:00,679 Speaker 2: sequences of DNA, and genes are within us, but they 71 00:04:00,799 --> 00:04:05,079 Speaker 2: are not always expressed. So what this means is, for example, 72 00:04:05,079 --> 00:04:06,999 Speaker 2: when it comes to health conditions, I might have a 73 00:04:07,119 --> 00:04:11,679 Speaker 2: gene for a particular health condition, but it's not necessarily expressed. 74 00:04:11,759 --> 00:04:14,399 Speaker 2: It just means that I have higher risk of developing 75 00:04:14,439 --> 00:04:19,999 Speaker 2: it because that gene is there. So epigenetics refers to 76 00:04:21,039 --> 00:04:25,759 Speaker 2: when and how particular genes that we have are expressed. 77 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 2: So it's essentially the ways in which our environment influence 78 00:04:29,959 --> 00:04:32,999 Speaker 2: the expression of our genetics. How interesting. 79 00:04:33,679 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 1: So do you have like an example of that, like 80 00:04:35,799 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 1: how that can play out? 81 00:04:37,239 --> 00:04:39,239 Speaker 2: Well, I can give you like a scientific example of 82 00:04:39,679 --> 00:04:42,079 Speaker 2: plays out. So there's a process called methylation. 83 00:04:43,919 --> 00:04:46,519 Speaker 1: It's all the words we love, the words in biology, 84 00:04:46,599 --> 00:04:47,039 Speaker 1: one to one. 85 00:04:48,399 --> 00:04:51,199 Speaker 2: So it's almost like this kind of chemical tag that 86 00:04:51,239 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 2: attaches itself to certain genes and it's you know, like 87 00:04:55,519 --> 00:04:57,679 Speaker 2: I don't know that sciences out there will maybe not 88 00:04:57,719 --> 00:04:58,959 Speaker 2: be happy with me saying this, but I want to 89 00:04:58,959 --> 00:05:00,519 Speaker 2: say it's like putting a post it note on something 90 00:05:00,639 --> 00:05:03,519 Speaker 2: or just like highlighting it. So like certain genes can 91 00:05:03,559 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 2: be tagged through this process. But essentially, if I give you, 92 00:05:06,879 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 2: like a real world example, if I have a genetic 93 00:05:09,319 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 2: risk for let's say a certain type of cancer, and 94 00:05:13,639 --> 00:05:17,079 Speaker 2: then I engage with things that we know increases our 95 00:05:17,159 --> 00:05:20,119 Speaker 2: risk for cancer, like environmental risks. Maybe I'm exposed to 96 00:05:20,119 --> 00:05:22,119 Speaker 2: a lot of his vestos or something like that, Right, 97 00:05:22,639 --> 00:05:24,959 Speaker 2: I have a higher risk of developing that cancer because 98 00:05:24,959 --> 00:05:28,359 Speaker 2: I already have the gene that kind of places me 99 00:05:28,439 --> 00:05:31,879 Speaker 2: at risk for it. So it's this interaction effect between 100 00:05:31,879 --> 00:05:35,759 Speaker 2: the genes that I have and also the environment that 101 00:05:35,799 --> 00:05:38,519 Speaker 2: I'm in that kind of expresses those genes. So it's 102 00:05:38,519 --> 00:05:42,359 Speaker 2: why we perhaps see, you know, certain cultures might be 103 00:05:42,439 --> 00:05:46,199 Speaker 2: more or certain nationalities might be more likely to develop 104 00:05:46,239 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 2: certain health conditions than others because it's sort of within 105 00:05:48,759 --> 00:05:51,999 Speaker 2: the genetic coding and it's passed down from person to person. 106 00:05:52,999 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 1: Is that why when you go to a GP, and 107 00:05:56,319 --> 00:05:59,119 Speaker 1: when you go to like any medical professional, they always 108 00:05:59,159 --> 00:06:02,359 Speaker 1: ask what your family history is as well, because they 109 00:06:02,439 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 1: are potentially wondering what you're or gene makeup is. 110 00:06:06,199 --> 00:06:09,759 Speaker 2: Is actual percent. So I'll give you another example of schizophrenia. Yeah, 111 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,639 Speaker 2: highly heritable. So we always want to know if there's 112 00:06:12,999 --> 00:06:15,999 Speaker 2: a family history of schizophrenia because there may be a 113 00:06:16,079 --> 00:06:18,919 Speaker 2: chance that gene has been passed down. However, we also 114 00:06:19,079 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 2: know that there's this interaction with the environment and that 115 00:06:21,519 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 2: if a person is in a stressful situation or it 116 00:06:24,079 --> 00:06:26,759 Speaker 2: goes through particular stresses in their life, usually at a 117 00:06:26,799 --> 00:06:29,399 Speaker 2: particular point in time as well, it means that that 118 00:06:29,439 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 2: gene might be more likely to express, so that person 119 00:06:32,559 --> 00:06:35,079 Speaker 2: is perhaps more likely to develop schizophrenia as opposed to 120 00:06:35,119 --> 00:06:38,079 Speaker 2: someone who doesn't have that gene. So if we bring 121 00:06:38,119 --> 00:06:41,959 Speaker 2: this back to the topic of intergenerational trauma and how 122 00:06:41,999 --> 00:06:46,679 Speaker 2: this applies, we know that trauma is passed down through epigenetics. 123 00:06:46,719 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 2: So if someone goes through trauma, it may be that 124 00:06:49,599 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 2: their stress response becomes more sensitive, and then that experience 125 00:06:55,239 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 2: is passed down to the next generation, both through nature 126 00:06:59,159 --> 00:07:01,999 Speaker 2: and nurture, right, because it's always this combination effect of Yes, 127 00:07:02,439 --> 00:07:05,519 Speaker 2: our genetics and our DNA have a signific role to play, 128 00:07:06,239 --> 00:07:08,559 Speaker 2: but also our environment has a role to play. So 129 00:07:08,919 --> 00:07:13,799 Speaker 2: if I am being parented by parents who experienced trauma, 130 00:07:14,839 --> 00:07:17,879 Speaker 2: then their parenting and their own kind of stress response 131 00:07:17,919 --> 00:07:20,039 Speaker 2: and way of dealing with the stress and the trauma 132 00:07:20,159 --> 00:07:22,159 Speaker 2: is going to impact how they parent me and how 133 00:07:22,199 --> 00:07:24,399 Speaker 2: I'm raised. Yes, yeah, I get that. 134 00:07:24,759 --> 00:07:28,359 Speaker 1: So does that mean as well? Like for anyone tuning 135 00:07:28,399 --> 00:07:31,959 Speaker 1: in that it is wondering, Oh, like, are these patterns 136 00:07:31,959 --> 00:07:35,279 Speaker 1: showing up in my family? Like, do you have examples 137 00:07:35,359 --> 00:07:38,959 Speaker 1: of how intergeneration or trauma can look in our families. 138 00:07:39,279 --> 00:07:42,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, if we're talking about patterns of essentially the coping 139 00:07:42,319 --> 00:07:45,199 Speaker 2: with trauma, and some of those can be really healthy, 140 00:07:45,359 --> 00:07:48,479 Speaker 2: but some of them can be less healthy. Yeah, ultimately 141 00:07:48,519 --> 00:07:51,439 Speaker 2: all ways of coping. Right, we might have families that 142 00:07:51,559 --> 00:07:54,519 Speaker 2: have a you know, we don't talk about it mentality 143 00:07:54,639 --> 00:07:58,039 Speaker 2: to trauma or other difficulties in life. So it's like 144 00:07:58,119 --> 00:08:00,719 Speaker 2: emotions are shut down, we don't have conversations about it. 145 00:08:00,719 --> 00:08:02,359 Speaker 2: You get up, you get over it, you push to 146 00:08:02,399 --> 00:08:04,919 Speaker 2: the side, and you carry on. Yes, And so that's 147 00:08:04,999 --> 00:08:08,039 Speaker 2: kind of a way of being in the world that 148 00:08:08,279 --> 00:08:11,759 Speaker 2: may have helped people cope who were going through that 149 00:08:11,799 --> 00:08:14,839 Speaker 2: severe adversity, right, Like, that's not entirely a bad way 150 00:08:14,839 --> 00:08:16,239 Speaker 2: to be in the world. That's going to help you 151 00:08:16,279 --> 00:08:21,279 Speaker 2: survive traumatic experience, but it's perhaps not necessarily something that 152 00:08:21,319 --> 00:08:24,759 Speaker 2: we want passed down in an extreme way to children 153 00:08:24,799 --> 00:08:27,359 Speaker 2: who are growing up who are not in a traumatic environment. 154 00:08:27,879 --> 00:08:29,999 Speaker 1: It's really interesting because it gets me thinking about even 155 00:08:30,039 --> 00:08:35,199 Speaker 1: my parents because their first generation immigrants. They moved from 156 00:08:35,279 --> 00:08:39,439 Speaker 1: Sri Lanka, and it's interesting. I mean, like it's really 157 00:08:39,519 --> 00:08:41,439 Speaker 1: the origins one of the reasons why I started the 158 00:08:41,439 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 1: Flourished journey, because like I didn't really have those spaces 159 00:08:44,719 --> 00:08:47,039 Speaker 1: to talk about what I was going through or just 160 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:52,079 Speaker 1: they didn't have that emotional language or that intelligence and 161 00:08:52,119 --> 00:08:54,159 Speaker 1: not that it's intelligence in the sense of they just 162 00:08:54,279 --> 00:08:57,799 Speaker 1: that wasn't in their environment growing up. Like I remember, 163 00:08:58,039 --> 00:09:00,839 Speaker 1: I'll have a conversations with my umma now and I 164 00:09:00,839 --> 00:09:03,199 Speaker 1: will talk about mental health because obviously everything that I've 165 00:09:03,239 --> 00:09:04,999 Speaker 1: done in this space, and. 166 00:09:04,639 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 2: She would just be like, oh, we just it's not 167 00:09:06,719 --> 00:09:07,119 Speaker 2: that we. 168 00:09:07,079 --> 00:09:09,399 Speaker 1: Didn't do it, it's just we just didn't know it, 169 00:09:09,599 --> 00:09:12,959 Speaker 1: you know, Like it was such a gap in their understanding. 170 00:09:13,039 --> 00:09:14,799 Speaker 1: So it was just really cool just to see the 171 00:09:14,839 --> 00:09:18,479 Speaker 1: generational differences and even seeing my sister now, like she's 172 00:09:18,479 --> 00:09:21,319 Speaker 1: a mom of four kids and the way that she parents, 173 00:09:21,319 --> 00:09:23,959 Speaker 1: and it's just so fascinating scene all the different styles 174 00:09:23,959 --> 00:09:25,719 Speaker 1: of parenting that are emerging as well. 175 00:09:26,399 --> 00:09:31,519 Speaker 2: Absolutely, I like that you mentioned parenting styles because parenting 176 00:09:31,519 --> 00:09:34,279 Speaker 2: styles will definitely influence, you know, the way that a 177 00:09:34,359 --> 00:09:36,879 Speaker 2: child is raised. But it's something to be really conscious 178 00:09:36,959 --> 00:09:40,399 Speaker 2: of in the context of intergenerational trauma and patterns that 179 00:09:40,439 --> 00:09:44,439 Speaker 2: can be passed down. I want to clarify a couple 180 00:09:44,519 --> 00:09:47,719 Speaker 2: of things here. So we're talking about intergenerational trauma that 181 00:09:47,839 --> 00:09:51,239 Speaker 2: is very real for a select group of people in 182 00:09:51,279 --> 00:09:55,519 Speaker 2: the world whose you know, parents, grandparents' ancestors have been through, 183 00:09:55,839 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 2: you know, decades of really serious adversity, and that gets 184 00:10:00,719 --> 00:10:04,439 Speaker 2: passed down. As we've discussed, we also have people who 185 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 2: perhaps haven't experienced intergenerational trauma, but perhaps they have experienced 186 00:10:10,079 --> 00:10:12,879 Speaker 2: what I refer to more as like attachment trauma. So 187 00:10:12,959 --> 00:10:15,879 Speaker 2: this is a sense of parents have ways of coping 188 00:10:16,279 --> 00:10:19,119 Speaker 2: that are not always the healthiest. It means they're not 189 00:10:19,119 --> 00:10:22,319 Speaker 2: always emotionally available, and that can disrupt the attachment that 190 00:10:22,439 --> 00:10:25,959 Speaker 2: is developed between a child and their parent. So say, 191 00:10:25,999 --> 00:10:28,719 Speaker 2: for example, we have a parent who's very closed emotionally. 192 00:10:28,719 --> 00:10:31,959 Speaker 2: They don't talk about feelings. They're very dismissive, they don't validate. 193 00:10:32,599 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 2: That's not necessarily because they've experienced trauma, it's just because 194 00:10:36,119 --> 00:10:39,039 Speaker 2: that's a way they've found to be in the world 195 00:10:39,039 --> 00:10:42,799 Speaker 2: that works for them. But that results in some sort 196 00:10:42,799 --> 00:10:45,439 Speaker 2: of attachment difficulty that can develop between the parent and 197 00:10:45,439 --> 00:10:45,879 Speaker 2: the child. 198 00:10:46,799 --> 00:10:50,119 Speaker 1: That's good that we're discerning between the two as well. Yeah, 199 00:10:50,239 --> 00:10:52,639 Speaker 1: so does that mean as well, like that would impact 200 00:10:53,199 --> 00:10:54,839 Speaker 1: because I know I was talking about before, like my 201 00:10:54,919 --> 00:10:57,599 Speaker 1: sister and how seeing the way that she parents is 202 00:10:57,599 --> 00:11:00,279 Speaker 1: really different to where that my parents parented us, Like, 203 00:11:00,839 --> 00:11:04,039 Speaker 1: is there something around parenting styles as well work? How 204 00:11:04,039 --> 00:11:05,079 Speaker 1: does that come into all of this. 205 00:11:05,519 --> 00:11:09,079 Speaker 2: There's sort of four key parenting styles that have been identified, 206 00:11:09,479 --> 00:11:12,239 Speaker 2: and they sort of exist on an axis or two 207 00:11:12,399 --> 00:11:16,279 Speaker 2: sort of axes. One is around sort of control and 208 00:11:16,359 --> 00:11:21,319 Speaker 2: structure and rigidity, and the other axis is around emotional 209 00:11:21,359 --> 00:11:26,879 Speaker 2: attunement and responsiveness and warmth. So one of the styles 210 00:11:26,879 --> 00:11:30,039 Speaker 2: of parenting is a more authoritative style of parenting. So 211 00:11:30,119 --> 00:11:32,959 Speaker 2: this is when someone is high on warmth, but they're 212 00:11:32,999 --> 00:11:36,039 Speaker 2: also high on structure. So these are parents that are 213 00:11:36,119 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 2: emotionally responsive, but they also set a lot of boundaries 214 00:11:39,599 --> 00:11:42,559 Speaker 2: for the kids. This is actually from the research said 215 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:44,839 Speaker 2: to be one of the better, I don't want to 216 00:11:44,839 --> 00:11:49,519 Speaker 2: say the best, but the better type of parenting because 217 00:11:49,519 --> 00:11:53,039 Speaker 2: it allows for young children to feel safe because we 218 00:11:53,159 --> 00:11:57,839 Speaker 2: need structure and boundaries to feel safe. But they're also 219 00:11:57,879 --> 00:12:01,079 Speaker 2: emotionally safe because parents are responding to and attuning to 220 00:12:01,119 --> 00:12:04,519 Speaker 2: their needs. So there's a lot of focus on problems 221 00:12:04,879 --> 00:12:09,159 Speaker 2: as opposed to discipline, for example. So there's the authoritative 222 00:12:09,199 --> 00:12:12,159 Speaker 2: parenting that' said to be a good style of parenting. 223 00:12:12,639 --> 00:12:16,239 Speaker 2: We also then have authoritarian parenting, which is when there's 224 00:12:16,279 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 2: still a lot of structure and boundaries, but there is 225 00:12:18,599 --> 00:12:21,719 Speaker 2: a low warmth and attunment. So this is more like 226 00:12:22,199 --> 00:12:25,479 Speaker 2: military style. Like there's structure, it's like you're up at 227 00:12:25,519 --> 00:12:28,119 Speaker 2: a particular time. You've got your routine, you've got your schedule, 228 00:12:28,159 --> 00:12:30,559 Speaker 2: but when emotional things come up, don't talk about them, 229 00:12:30,599 --> 00:12:32,599 Speaker 2: stuck it up and just keep getting on with the routine. 230 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, and in that as well, is that also because 231 00:12:35,159 --> 00:12:37,519 Speaker 1: of let's say you do have that type of parent 232 00:12:37,639 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 1: is that a lot of the time because that's how 233 00:12:39,479 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 1: they were raised. 234 00:12:40,799 --> 00:12:43,199 Speaker 2: It could be could be or it could be the opposite. 235 00:12:43,239 --> 00:12:45,799 Speaker 2: It could be that they've been raised with more kind 236 00:12:45,879 --> 00:12:49,719 Speaker 2: of loose, relaxed boundaries, and then they've gone the opposite way, 237 00:12:49,759 --> 00:12:52,039 Speaker 2: but perhaps a little bit too far. So on the 238 00:12:52,079 --> 00:12:54,519 Speaker 2: other end of the spectrum, we see those more permissive 239 00:12:54,599 --> 00:12:57,799 Speaker 2: styles of parenting where perhaps there's still a lot of warmth, 240 00:12:58,199 --> 00:13:01,759 Speaker 2: but there's a real kind of lack of boundaries, and 241 00:13:01,799 --> 00:13:03,959 Speaker 2: that can be really difficult for kids to grow up 242 00:13:03,999 --> 00:13:07,159 Speaker 2: in because they don't have those constraints that we all need, 243 00:13:07,199 --> 00:13:08,439 Speaker 2: but particularly that kids need. 244 00:13:08,599 --> 00:13:10,719 Speaker 1: So I feel like it actually gets me thinking more 245 00:13:10,759 --> 00:13:13,839 Speaker 1: about parts work and how much it's becoming I don't know, 246 00:13:13,919 --> 00:13:16,119 Speaker 1: I'm hearing in a lot more in the self development 247 00:13:16,159 --> 00:13:18,559 Speaker 1: therapy spaces, and it's going to be thinking a lot 248 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:22,919 Speaker 1: about ifs, internal family systems, and I'm just so curious 249 00:13:22,959 --> 00:13:25,119 Speaker 1: to know, like why is there such a buzz around it? 250 00:13:25,199 --> 00:13:28,159 Speaker 1: Why is it resonating with so many people? And even 251 00:13:28,199 --> 00:13:29,079 Speaker 1: like what is it too? 252 00:13:29,359 --> 00:13:32,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well, like I'll give you the academic answer 253 00:13:32,959 --> 00:13:36,479 Speaker 2: to that, which is, like we in the last not 254 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:37,799 Speaker 2: so I don't want to say last few years, but 255 00:13:37,799 --> 00:13:40,359 Speaker 2: in recent years we've had more literature emerge around the 256 00:13:40,439 --> 00:13:43,759 Speaker 2: value of parts work. So internal family systems IFS is 257 00:13:43,839 --> 00:13:48,359 Speaker 2: one modality. Another is schema therapy that leans into parts 258 00:13:48,399 --> 00:13:52,079 Speaker 2: work and essentially kind of in the history of treatments, 259 00:13:52,479 --> 00:13:55,599 Speaker 2: we've seen that Historically there were things there were treatments 260 00:13:55,639 --> 00:13:58,719 Speaker 2: like just stalt therapy and therapies that access sort of 261 00:13:58,719 --> 00:14:01,319 Speaker 2: different parts within us that were perhaps a little bit 262 00:14:01,319 --> 00:14:04,159 Speaker 2: harder to research and build an evidence space for. But 263 00:14:04,199 --> 00:14:06,799 Speaker 2: as we've progress through time, we've got better at being 264 00:14:06,839 --> 00:14:09,479 Speaker 2: able to do that. Cool, and so we've seen this 265 00:14:09,599 --> 00:14:13,279 Speaker 2: move towards an integration with our more cognitive based therapies 266 00:14:13,359 --> 00:14:16,519 Speaker 2: like CBT that we've talked about before, with these more 267 00:14:16,639 --> 00:14:21,519 Speaker 2: experiential therapies like our ifs, like our Schemer therapy, where 268 00:14:21,519 --> 00:14:24,439 Speaker 2: we're actually really looking at combining both kind of what's 269 00:14:24,519 --> 00:14:28,319 Speaker 2: rationally going on with the brain but also what's experientially 270 00:14:28,359 --> 00:14:30,879 Speaker 2: going on in the body on a more emotional level, 271 00:14:31,039 --> 00:14:33,599 Speaker 2: being able to bring those together to form treatments. 272 00:14:33,959 --> 00:14:37,879 Speaker 1: I love that, so tell us more about internal family systems. 273 00:14:38,199 --> 00:14:40,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's a type of therapy that was developed 274 00:14:40,479 --> 00:14:47,079 Speaker 2: by Richard Schwartz, and essentially the therapy identifies parts within us. 275 00:14:47,599 --> 00:14:50,879 Speaker 2: I personally love the concept of parts. Even if I'm 276 00:14:50,879 --> 00:14:53,399 Speaker 2: not doing part based therapy with a client, I will 277 00:14:53,399 --> 00:14:57,919 Speaker 2: typically use language that identifies parts. So, for example, I 278 00:14:57,919 --> 00:14:59,599 Speaker 2: will say to clients, you know the part of you 279 00:14:59,679 --> 00:15:01,919 Speaker 2: that is anxious, or the part of you that has 280 00:15:01,959 --> 00:15:05,599 Speaker 2: a desire to drink to escape this situation, or the 281 00:15:05,639 --> 00:15:07,919 Speaker 2: part of you that feels really vulnerable, the part of 282 00:15:07,919 --> 00:15:11,319 Speaker 2: you that feels rage. Right, this ability to talk in 283 00:15:11,439 --> 00:15:15,959 Speaker 2: parts really helps a person not over identify with an 284 00:15:15,999 --> 00:15:19,479 Speaker 2: internal experience or an urge that they're having, and it 285 00:15:19,519 --> 00:15:21,279 Speaker 2: makes it much easier for us to be able to 286 00:15:21,319 --> 00:15:23,679 Speaker 2: then work with it and try and change it as well. 287 00:15:24,079 --> 00:15:27,119 Speaker 2: But in internal family systems, we're essentially looking at these 288 00:15:27,119 --> 00:15:30,079 Speaker 2: different parts that might exist within a person. We look 289 00:15:30,119 --> 00:15:32,359 Speaker 2: at where these parts have come from in terms of 290 00:15:32,399 --> 00:15:35,799 Speaker 2: their origins, the influence of the different parts, how they 291 00:15:35,879 --> 00:15:40,039 Speaker 2: do or don't kind of work together, and ultimately, when 292 00:15:40,039 --> 00:15:43,479 Speaker 2: we're thinking about parts in therapy, we're looking at how 293 00:15:43,519 --> 00:15:47,839 Speaker 2: we can bring a more integrated sense of self together. 294 00:15:48,239 --> 00:15:51,279 Speaker 2: I think we've talked before in our trauma episode about 295 00:15:51,759 --> 00:15:55,439 Speaker 2: trauma being something that fragments our sense of self and 296 00:15:55,519 --> 00:15:58,519 Speaker 2: the goal being a better sense of integration of who 297 00:15:58,559 --> 00:16:01,239 Speaker 2: we are and how those different parts operate. It doesn't 298 00:16:01,279 --> 00:16:03,239 Speaker 2: mean that we get rid of parts. It just means 299 00:16:03,239 --> 00:16:05,279 Speaker 2: that we have a more integrated ECPs experience of them. 300 00:16:05,599 --> 00:16:08,079 Speaker 2: So what is the role of parts? So we have 301 00:16:08,239 --> 00:16:10,759 Speaker 2: in ifs they talk about different types of parts that 302 00:16:10,839 --> 00:16:12,999 Speaker 2: can take on different roles, and they've got sort of 303 00:16:13,399 --> 00:16:15,879 Speaker 2: labels and titles, which I also really like because it 304 00:16:15,999 --> 00:16:18,759 Speaker 2: sort of really represents these parts in ways that it 305 00:16:18,759 --> 00:16:22,039 Speaker 2: can be easy to visualize. So we have one sort 306 00:16:22,039 --> 00:16:24,519 Speaker 2: of category of parts or a type of part that's 307 00:16:24,559 --> 00:16:27,639 Speaker 2: the exile, and this is the part that might feel 308 00:16:28,039 --> 00:16:32,719 Speaker 2: the pain, the shame, the vulnerability, the feelings of past trauma, 309 00:16:33,159 --> 00:16:36,359 Speaker 2: and these parts often feel quite exiled from the rest 310 00:16:36,399 --> 00:16:39,479 Speaker 2: of the parts in a person. They feel somewhat isolated. 311 00:16:39,519 --> 00:16:42,439 Speaker 2: So we have the exiles. We also have the managers. 312 00:16:42,759 --> 00:16:45,119 Speaker 2: So these are kind of protector parts. They really work 313 00:16:45,159 --> 00:16:48,759 Speaker 2: hard to try and manage the self, manage the other parts. 314 00:16:48,799 --> 00:16:51,919 Speaker 2: They're sort of a more kind of in control feeling, 315 00:16:52,079 --> 00:16:55,399 Speaker 2: these protector parts, these manager parts. But then we also 316 00:16:55,479 --> 00:16:59,719 Speaker 2: have what's called the firefighters. So the firefighters are also protectors, 317 00:17:00,079 --> 00:17:03,319 Speaker 2: but they play a more reactive role compared to the managers. 318 00:17:03,359 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 2: So these are the parts that might be like impulsively 319 00:17:06,759 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 2: trying to put out the fire right So if the 320 00:17:08,879 --> 00:17:11,599 Speaker 2: person doesn't feel good. It's like grab the bag of 321 00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:14,199 Speaker 2: Twisti's and put on the Netflix, kind of like impulsive. 322 00:17:14,279 --> 00:17:15,839 Speaker 2: We want to get away from this feeling and just 323 00:17:15,919 --> 00:17:18,479 Speaker 2: manage it in the moment, not always the healthiest way 324 00:17:18,479 --> 00:17:19,319 Speaker 2: of coping. 325 00:17:22,399 --> 00:17:24,999 Speaker 1: Up. Next, we're teaching you how to break the cycle 326 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:26,519 Speaker 1: of intergenerational trauma. 327 00:17:26,759 --> 00:17:31,759 Speaker 2: Stay with us. So if you're watching along, you might 328 00:17:31,799 --> 00:17:33,959 Speaker 2: have noticed we've had a bit of a set change. 329 00:17:34,239 --> 00:17:38,079 Speaker 2: We've got a third chair in the room for those 330 00:17:38,159 --> 00:17:40,719 Speaker 2: listening along. We've bought another chair in the room to 331 00:17:40,799 --> 00:17:42,439 Speaker 2: join a Shiny Eye. And it's not because we have 332 00:17:42,479 --> 00:17:45,719 Speaker 2: another literal guest coming in the room. Letter read it, 333 00:17:46,279 --> 00:17:49,959 Speaker 2: but we're going to use this chair as a representation 334 00:17:50,279 --> 00:17:51,239 Speaker 2: for a part. 335 00:17:51,719 --> 00:17:51,799 Speaker 1: Now. 336 00:17:51,839 --> 00:17:53,919 Speaker 2: I thought this would be something kind of interesting to 337 00:17:53,959 --> 00:17:55,799 Speaker 2: do because of Shiny In the break, you were telling 338 00:17:55,839 --> 00:17:59,639 Speaker 2: me about an experience you're having of being quite self critical, 339 00:17:59,639 --> 00:18:02,959 Speaker 2: So maybe just kind of share that for the listeners. Yes, 340 00:18:03,039 --> 00:18:03,919 Speaker 2: so pretty much. 341 00:18:03,999 --> 00:18:05,679 Speaker 1: I was telling out of stage in the break, I 342 00:18:05,799 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 1: was reflecting walking down the street going to the gym, 343 00:18:08,439 --> 00:18:10,559 Speaker 1: and I had my headphones in, had my voice memo on, 344 00:18:10,919 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 1: and I was talking to my parts, and I was like, oh, so, 345 00:18:13,279 --> 00:18:16,599 Speaker 1: like why you hear, and what is it that you're 346 00:18:16,639 --> 00:18:19,279 Speaker 1: trying to tell me, because I feel like I often 347 00:18:19,319 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 1: shut you out. And what my inner critic and my 348 00:18:22,239 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 1: dad was saying was just we just want you to 349 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:25,959 Speaker 1: do a good job. We want you to always be 350 00:18:25,959 --> 00:18:29,039 Speaker 1: being better. We don't want you to get comfortable. And 351 00:18:29,159 --> 00:18:31,879 Speaker 1: my inner wisdom was like, oh, okay, like we want 352 00:18:31,919 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 1: to hear what you have to say, but you don't 353 00:18:33,439 --> 00:18:35,759 Speaker 1: have to be in the driving seat anymore. And it 354 00:18:35,799 --> 00:18:38,599 Speaker 1: was just this moment where it sounds really basic, but 355 00:18:38,919 --> 00:18:41,439 Speaker 1: it was something shifted for me because I realized how 356 00:18:41,519 --> 00:18:44,079 Speaker 1: much I was associating to my inner critic, I was 357 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:48,519 Speaker 1: associating to my doubt and I wasn't talking to them. 358 00:18:48,839 --> 00:18:51,599 Speaker 2: Interesting. See, if you were a client and you came 359 00:18:51,679 --> 00:18:54,519 Speaker 2: into the therapy room and you were telling me about 360 00:18:54,559 --> 00:18:57,719 Speaker 2: like the self criticism that you were experiencing, we'd kind 361 00:18:57,719 --> 00:19:01,279 Speaker 2: of identify that in a critic as being a part 362 00:19:01,439 --> 00:19:03,239 Speaker 2: you know. I would say something like, sounds like there's 363 00:19:03,279 --> 00:19:05,999 Speaker 2: a part of you that's really hot on yourself and 364 00:19:06,039 --> 00:19:09,159 Speaker 2: similar to what you're explaining. One of the things we 365 00:19:09,279 --> 00:19:11,959 Speaker 2: always want to do is get to know the part 366 00:19:12,559 --> 00:19:14,839 Speaker 2: before we work with any part. We want to get 367 00:19:14,839 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 2: to know it. So this is why we have the 368 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 2: literal figurative figurative chair kind of in the room, because 369 00:19:21,159 --> 00:19:24,319 Speaker 2: it represents this part. And so I would sit with 370 00:19:24,399 --> 00:19:27,559 Speaker 2: a client and I would be asking that empty chair, 371 00:19:27,599 --> 00:19:31,599 Speaker 2: I'd be asking this part, why are you there? Like, 372 00:19:31,759 --> 00:19:36,079 Speaker 2: why do you exist? What message are you trying to 373 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:40,719 Speaker 2: communicate to Sally? Let's say my client, Sally, in what 374 00:19:40,799 --> 00:19:42,759 Speaker 2: ways are you trying to help Sally? What are you 375 00:19:42,839 --> 00:19:45,279 Speaker 2: trying to protect her from? Why do you exist? Help 376 00:19:45,279 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 2: me understand? We want to understand the function of a part. 377 00:19:49,519 --> 00:19:52,239 Speaker 2: Why does it exist? Because in some way it's there 378 00:19:52,279 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 2: because it has helped and it is worked at a 379 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:58,239 Speaker 2: particular point in time. What we sometimes find, though, is 380 00:19:58,279 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 2: these parts come on too loud, too strong, and too automatic. 381 00:20:03,759 --> 00:20:06,079 Speaker 2: So once we have a good understanding of why the 382 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,919 Speaker 2: part exists, this is where me and Sally have an 383 00:20:09,919 --> 00:20:13,079 Speaker 2: opportunity to kind of talk back to the part. And 384 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,839 Speaker 2: so if there's a really strong inner critic, I might 385 00:20:15,999 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 2: say to that empty chair, I might be like, look, 386 00:20:18,679 --> 00:20:20,519 Speaker 2: I know you're trying to help Sally. I know you 387 00:20:20,519 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 2: want her to do a good job. You're trying to 388 00:20:22,199 --> 00:20:25,239 Speaker 2: motivate her to be hard working, and achieve in life 389 00:20:25,279 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 2: and kick all the goals that she's got for herself. 390 00:20:27,639 --> 00:20:30,719 Speaker 2: But you know what, at the moment, you're a little 391 00:20:30,719 --> 00:20:33,439 Speaker 2: bit too loud and you're coming on a bit too strong, 392 00:20:33,519 --> 00:20:37,279 Speaker 2: and you're actually having the opposite effect. And so it 393 00:20:37,479 --> 00:20:42,079 Speaker 2: is absolutely that practice of having a dialogue with those parts, 394 00:20:42,159 --> 00:20:45,199 Speaker 2: being able to engage in conversation with those parts, and 395 00:20:45,239 --> 00:20:47,599 Speaker 2: being able to tweak them when they're perhaps coming on 396 00:20:47,679 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 2: a little bit loud or a little bit too strong. 397 00:20:50,079 --> 00:20:52,759 Speaker 2: I think the conversation we've had here about parts work 398 00:20:52,839 --> 00:20:55,759 Speaker 2: is important, and being able to identify parts is important 399 00:20:55,999 --> 00:20:59,039 Speaker 2: because it really comes back to the ways in which 400 00:20:59,079 --> 00:21:03,799 Speaker 2: we can change and break family cycles and family dynamics. Right, 401 00:21:04,199 --> 00:21:06,559 Speaker 2: If I come back to the example of growing up 402 00:21:06,599 --> 00:21:10,999 Speaker 2: in a family where emotions are not expressed, we develop 403 00:21:11,159 --> 00:21:14,479 Speaker 2: a part of us that suppresses emotions, you know, it's 404 00:21:14,519 --> 00:21:17,719 Speaker 2: emotionally inhibited. It learns not to kind of speak out 405 00:21:17,719 --> 00:21:20,839 Speaker 2: and ask for help or express emotions. And so if 406 00:21:20,839 --> 00:21:23,799 Speaker 2: we can identify that as being a part of us, 407 00:21:24,319 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 2: we can work to break that family pattern that we 408 00:21:27,519 --> 00:21:31,199 Speaker 2: have inherited in some way. And that goes for so 409 00:21:31,279 --> 00:21:34,039 Speaker 2: many different you know, patterns that we might have our 410 00:21:34,079 --> 00:21:37,479 Speaker 2: ability to express ourselves, our ability to kind of cope 411 00:21:37,479 --> 00:21:40,839 Speaker 2: with stress, our ability to kind of be social and 412 00:21:40,919 --> 00:21:44,719 Speaker 2: lean into connections rather than withdraw and isolate ourselves. That 413 00:21:44,759 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 2: the important part here, I guess, is recognizing what patterns 414 00:21:48,639 --> 00:21:52,239 Speaker 2: we have adopted as a result of the patterns that 415 00:21:52,239 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 2: our family has, and whether or not those are actually 416 00:21:55,439 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 2: helpful or unhelpful for us. 417 00:21:58,599 --> 00:22:01,239 Speaker 1: Coming up after the break, why are we always asking 418 00:22:01,279 --> 00:22:10,079 Speaker 1: people to repeat themselves even though we kind of heard them? 419 00:22:11,079 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 2: Do you understand how your behavior is confusing? Fine? Why 420 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,959 Speaker 2: are we like this? The best way to understand behavior? Well, 421 00:22:17,039 --> 00:22:18,199 Speaker 2: some look at the causes of. 422 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,079 Speaker 1: An action, So why are we like this? Okay, So 423 00:22:21,399 --> 00:22:24,079 Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but I've definitely had situations 424 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 1: where where I've said I might I might not have 425 00:22:26,959 --> 00:22:29,479 Speaker 1: heard the person that has said something. So then I 426 00:22:29,519 --> 00:22:32,319 Speaker 1: want to clarify, right, and I say what? And then 427 00:22:32,399 --> 00:22:36,959 Speaker 1: as I'm saying what, I realize what they actually said, 428 00:22:37,239 --> 00:22:39,239 Speaker 1: And then I want to give the answer before they 429 00:22:39,319 --> 00:22:41,679 Speaker 1: repeat themselves. Do you know what I mean? 430 00:22:43,039 --> 00:22:45,839 Speaker 2: It's the reflexive what? And then oh, you don't even 431 00:22:45,839 --> 00:22:47,679 Speaker 2: need them to repeat it because your brain's processed. 432 00:22:47,759 --> 00:22:49,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, It's like I don't know if it was like 433 00:22:49,599 --> 00:22:50,559 Speaker 1: a delay. 434 00:22:50,279 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 2: To that or it's like the brain's just taking a 435 00:22:52,679 --> 00:22:56,879 Speaker 2: bit of time buffering. Yes, yeah, this is a coic memory, right, 436 00:22:56,959 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 2: and this is like a fabulous part of the brain 437 00:22:59,839 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 2: where we are much better at our short term memory 438 00:23:03,879 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 2: when it comes to you hearing things than seeing things. 439 00:23:06,399 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 2: So visual short term memory, we see something and then 440 00:23:09,679 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 2: within a matter of like a second or less, we 441 00:23:12,919 --> 00:23:16,399 Speaker 2: can't actually remember it very well. But with our auditory memory, 442 00:23:16,439 --> 00:23:18,519 Speaker 2: we can, you know, for about four or five seconds, 443 00:23:18,559 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 2: we can retain whatever we've heard. So what actually happens 444 00:23:22,599 --> 00:23:26,999 Speaker 2: is the brain processes the sound, yes, but processing the 445 00:23:27,159 --> 00:23:30,039 Speaker 2: meaning can take a little bit longer and can happen 446 00:23:30,079 --> 00:23:32,959 Speaker 2: a little bit later. So there's this like disconnect between 447 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 2: knowing the sound came into our brain yeah, but actually 448 00:23:35,719 --> 00:23:38,239 Speaker 2: then processing what someone said. So we have this like 449 00:23:38,319 --> 00:23:41,479 Speaker 2: reflexive what but then the processing is caught up and 450 00:23:41,479 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 2: so we're like, oh, that's what they said, and then 451 00:23:42,919 --> 00:23:43,799 Speaker 2: we can answer it. 452 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, cool. This is really good to know because 453 00:23:46,839 --> 00:23:48,599 Speaker 1: I have a moment to myself, I'm like, oh, am, 454 00:23:48,639 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 1: I just like embarrassed that I've said what, you know, 455 00:23:51,759 --> 00:23:53,959 Speaker 1: like I'm judging myself in the inquiry, I'm like, well, 456 00:23:53,999 --> 00:23:55,799 Speaker 1: what's going on? Is there something wrong with my memory? 457 00:23:55,839 --> 00:23:58,279 Speaker 2: But why have I questioned it? And also like attention 458 00:23:58,399 --> 00:24:00,279 Speaker 2: as well. Right, if we get distracted for a moment, 459 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,559 Speaker 2: even if that's like with an internal thought, right can 460 00:24:02,599 --> 00:24:05,319 Speaker 2: be distracted with anything. The good thing is that the 461 00:24:05,319 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 2: brain like still captures what was said even though we're 462 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:09,319 Speaker 2: not focusing on it. 463 00:24:09,479 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 1: Wow. 464 00:24:10,079 --> 00:24:12,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, so interesting. Fascinating Your brain is fascinating. 465 00:24:19,799 --> 00:24:22,439 Speaker 1: Okay, Anaesthasia, can you give us the main takeaways from 466 00:24:22,439 --> 00:24:24,239 Speaker 1: today's episode. It's been a big one. 467 00:24:24,399 --> 00:24:26,319 Speaker 2: It has been a big one, a big one and 468 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,839 Speaker 2: hopefully not too much of a heavy one for people listening. 469 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,559 Speaker 2: But here's some takeaways from today. So first of all, 470 00:24:31,919 --> 00:24:35,759 Speaker 2: our families heavily influence the people that we become through 471 00:24:35,799 --> 00:24:41,079 Speaker 2: both nature and nurture. Secondly, life experiences and trauma can 472 00:24:41,199 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 2: impact the way in which our DNA and our genes 473 00:24:43,719 --> 00:24:49,639 Speaker 2: are expressed. Lastly, breaking free from family patterns is possible, 474 00:24:49,719 --> 00:24:52,519 Speaker 2: but it often requires a bit of reflection and active 475 00:24:52,639 --> 00:24:54,039 Speaker 2: choices to make those changes. 476 00:24:54,759 --> 00:24:56,719 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for tuning in to hear us on 477 00:24:56,719 --> 00:25:00,079 Speaker 1: this podcast. We're keen to hear how you're liking the episodes, 478 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 1: and if you have any ideas of topics we should cover, 479 00:25:02,959 --> 00:25:04,879 Speaker 1: get in touch with us the links in our show 480 00:25:04,879 --> 00:25:07,439 Speaker 1: notes to let us know or review us on Apple 481 00:25:07,479 --> 00:25:10,679 Speaker 1: Podcasts and Spotify, and make sure you're following us on 482 00:25:10,719 --> 00:25:13,959 Speaker 1: both platforms to be notified when new episodes drop. 483 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 2: And while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't a 484 00:25:17,159 --> 00:25:20,799 Speaker 2: substitute for therapy or a diagnosis. Always take what we 485 00:25:20,839 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 2: share here in the context of your own health and 486 00:25:23,159 --> 00:25:26,039 Speaker 2: personal history. If anything we talked about today brought up 487 00:25:26,079 --> 00:25:29,959 Speaker 2: any difficult feelings for you, you'll find support resources linked in 488 00:25:29,999 --> 00:25:33,719 Speaker 2: the show notes, and remember there are always organizations like 489 00:25:33,799 --> 00:25:37,559 Speaker 2: Lifeline and Beyond Blue that are available to provide immediate support. 490 00:25:37,919 --> 00:25:40,479 Speaker 1: If you aren't following us on Instagram or TikTok, you 491 00:25:40,599 --> 00:25:43,479 Speaker 1: definitely should be so search at but Are You Happy Pod. 492 00:25:43,959 --> 00:25:46,599 Speaker 1: There you'll see our takeaways from these episodes and some 493 00:25:46,719 --> 00:25:47,559 Speaker 1: silly bits too. 494 00:25:47,959 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 2: See you next time. Bye. Before you go, a quick 495 00:25:54,559 --> 00:25:57,239 Speaker 2: heads up, you can get fifty percent off tickets to 496 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,719 Speaker 2: Domefest as a But are You Happy listener. We're doing 497 00:26:00,759 --> 00:26:04,279 Speaker 2: a mini live show at Domefest on Sunday, March twenty 498 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,199 Speaker 2: nine at the Hawden Pavilion. We're on at three ten 499 00:26:07,239 --> 00:26:09,999 Speaker 2: pm and there are plenty of other podcasts on across 500 00:26:10,039 --> 00:26:13,039 Speaker 2: the day as well. If you're keen, The discount link 501 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,559 Speaker 2: is in the show notes. Hope to see there. Mamma 502 00:26:15,599 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 2: Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters 503 00:26:19,399 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.