1 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. 2 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 2: Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and 3 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 2: waters that this podcast is recorded on. 4 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 3: Hi. 5 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 4: You just got rejected by a company that you're a 6 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 4: black for. But what did you see? Oh, we regret 7 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 4: to inform you that we will not be moving for 8 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 4: with your application at this time. Wait, boss, did did 9 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 4: he regret that decision? We regret to inform you They 10 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 4: made a mistake. Quick call them, tell them that you 11 00:00:35,160 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 4: forgive them. They just made a mistake. 12 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: They actually want you. 13 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 3: Well, Mamma Mia, I'm your host, Ashanie Dante. 14 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: Welcome to But are you happy? The podcast that. 15 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 3: Proves your over analysis does have a purpose. It's called 16 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 3: relatable content. 17 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 2: And now I'm doctor Anastagia Hernis a clinical psychologist passionate 18 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 2: about happiness and mental health. We've all been rejected at 19 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 2: some point, whether it's by a romantic partner, a university, 20 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 2: a job, a friendship, a sports team. The list goes on. 21 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's especially hard when you're in a season 22 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 3: of life where the rejection just keeps eileen up, like 23 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 3: when you're applying for jobs and hearing crickets. 24 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,559 Speaker 2: Absolutely, it can take a real toll on your self confidence. 25 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 2: So today I'm breaking down why rejection hurts so much 26 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 2: and how we can start challenging those negative thoughts that 27 00:01:25,119 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 2: it stirs up. 28 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 3: We all need to hear this episode, so let's get 29 00:01:28,679 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 3: into it. 30 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: Let's talk about rejection anaesthesia. Why does it hurt so 31 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:35,999 Speaker 1: damn much? 32 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 2: It hurts? It hurts all right, hurts so much. Rejection 33 00:01:40,479 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 2: hurts because we have an evolutionary need to belong, to 34 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 2: be part of the social group, to be a part 35 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 2: of the pack. If we think back to the days 36 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 2: of the cavemen and prehistoric times, we needed to be 37 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 2: part of that social group for the purpose of survival, 38 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 2: right We needed the group for protection. If we weren't 39 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 2: a part of the group, that meant we were isolated 40 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 2: and we were so much more vulnerable to being attacked 41 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 2: by a bear or a lion, or not finding safety 42 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 2: and shelter for them, and being exposed to the elements, 43 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 2: all these things. We needed to be part of a 44 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 2: group for the purpose of protection. And so we are 45 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 2: hard wired in that way to seek out connection and 46 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 2: to want to be liked by other people because it's 47 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 2: protective for us. So when we do experience rejection, that 48 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 2: very primal part of the brain gets activated and goes, oh, no, 49 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 2: this is dangerous for us, this is bad. We need 50 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 2: to belong. 51 00:02:36,640 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 3: And it's interesting as you're talking about it, and especially 52 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 3: speaking to the evolutionary perspective, it takes me back to 53 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 3: where we talked about people pleasing in season one. And 54 00:02:46,640 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 3: it's interesting how so much of the stuff that we're 55 00:02:48,920 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 3: talking about there's such a common link to everything. Right, 56 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 3: it does come back to evolution and biology and what's 57 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 3: going on inside of us. 58 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I mean that part of the brain has 59 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 2: worked really well because it's ensured survival of the species. Right, 60 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 2: if we didn't have that part of the brain that 61 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 2: wasn't sensitive to rejection or didn't want to protect us 62 00:03:07,640 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 2: in that way, we probably wouldn't have survived for so 63 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 2: many thousands of years. So we've made it this far. 64 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 2: But we've made it this far because we're really good 65 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 2: at wanting to belong. 66 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 3: And it's interesting you talking about the brain because I 67 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 3: would love to unpack what's going on for us in 68 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 3: the brain when we do get rejected. 69 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 2: I love talking about the brain. 70 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: Euroscience one on one here we go. 71 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 2: So let's talk about what happens in the brain when 72 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 2: we get rejected. So there is good evidence and research 73 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 2: to suggest that social rejection, so being rejected by people, 74 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 2: by partners, by peers, etc. Social rejection hurts as much 75 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 2: as physical pain does. 76 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: Really. 77 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, So if you've ever gone through rejection and you're like, oh, 78 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 2: I can feel it, it hurts. It actually does hurt. 79 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 3: This is so good to language out because it really 80 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 3: does hurt. Like you have I don't know, you've cut 81 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 3: open your leg or you know, it does feel like 82 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 3: physical pain. 83 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, And so what brain scans show is that 84 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 2: the same parts of the brain actually light up when 85 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 2: we experience physical pain as well as when we experience 86 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 2: social rejections. And I've got a couple of fun and 87 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 2: interesting studies to tell you about the proof this. Okay, 88 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 2: so there's the cybable study, right. So an experimenter designed 89 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 2: this game where you sort of play like this online 90 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 2: frisbee game with other people, and you're passing the frisbee 91 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 2: between yourself and two other people. All right, So all 92 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 2: is going normally, You're taking turns passing it between yourselves, 93 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden, the other two people 94 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 2: start just passing it between themselves and they exclude you 95 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 2: from the game. And so they hook you up to 96 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 2: sort of brain scans and things, and they show that 97 00:04:56,200 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 2: the same areas of the brain that experience that physical 98 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 2: pain also light up when we get that social rejection, 99 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 2: because it hurts, even when we're playing a game with 100 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 2: people we don't necessarily even know. To be excluded and 101 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 2: rejected hurts. They've done the same thing with people who've 102 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 2: recently experienced breakups from relationships, and they get them to 103 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 2: look this is kind of mean, but they get them 104 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 2: to look at photos of their ex partner and they 105 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 2: scan their brains and again, the same parts of the 106 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 2: brain light up that experience the physical pain. And so 107 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 2: specifically we're talking about the parts of the brain that's 108 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 2: the dorsal anterior singulate and the anterior insular for anyone 109 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 2: who wants to get real deep into the brain neuroscience, right, 110 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 2: there's this increased activity to physical pain and that social 111 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 2: rejection in these parts of the brain. 112 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 3: Wow, this is so comforting to know this, Like, obviously 113 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 3: it sucks because we don't want to be going through 114 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 3: that kind of pain, but it also just goes to 115 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 3: show how important things like mental health is right, because 116 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 3: it's so obvious when we hurt ourselves physically, we go 117 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 3: get it treated. But so often there's so many people 118 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 3: suffering in silence mentally. So it just kind of helps 119 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 3: to validate how important, you know, it is to take 120 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 3: care about inner self. 121 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 1: Right. 122 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,160 Speaker 2: And I think it's interesting when we reflect on the 123 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 2: language as well. Right, So we say things like I'm heartbroken, 124 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 2: like we use physical descriptions to describe emotional pain heartbreak, 125 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 2: or if we say something was gut wrenching, Right, it's 126 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 2: so true we use these physical descriptions to describe what 127 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 2: those emotions feel like because they hurt so much. 128 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 1: That's so true. 129 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 3: Like even wounds, because I always talk about like, oh, 130 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 3: you know wounds generally, I'm like, oh, yeah, it is 131 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:41,720 Speaker 3: emotional wounds. 132 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 1: There you go. In neuroscience. 133 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 3: It's not like just a poetic term we throw around 134 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 3: when we talk about wounds and things like that. So 135 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 3: I guess something I'm curious about too, is what are 136 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 3: the differences between you know, let's say, being rejected by 137 00:06:56,280 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 3: someone you care about versus getting rejected by a stranger 138 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 3: or an institution. 139 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 2: Often, getting rejected by someone we know personally feels worse, 140 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 2: just generally speaking, if we're rejected by someone we don't know, 141 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 2: if maybe we're going for a job interview, or you know, 142 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 2: someone we've just met, we don't really know them very well. 143 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 2: We can more easily dismiss this and kind of be like, well, 144 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 2: they don't really know me, or maybe they didn't get 145 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 2: to see my full potential in the interview, or they 146 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 2: didn't really ask me that many questions. We can sometimes 147 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 2: more easily justify why we've been rejected in that scenario. 148 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 2: But when it's someone close to us, someone who knows 149 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 2: us quite personally and quite intimately, they know our character, 150 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 2: it's harder to do that, and so we tend to 151 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 2: take it more personally. 152 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so true. 153 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 3: And I guess that it's interesting because we think about 154 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 3: rejection and when we're heartbroken and how long it takes 155 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 3: to recover from that. It's one thing to have like 156 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 3: different degrees of rejection, and that's kind of what you 157 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 3: spoke to. But also what I'm interested about is we 158 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 3: all experience rejection differently. I find that some people can 159 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 3: bounce back pretty quickly after rejection, and then other people 160 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 3: spiral what's going on there? 161 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 2: We all exist on a spectrum of rejection sensitivity. So 162 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 2: some of us are just, you know, in terms of 163 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 2: our temperament, less sensitive to rejection than other people. So 164 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 2: there's actually something called rejection sensitivity dysphoria, dysphoria coming from 165 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:35,559 Speaker 2: the Greek word meaning meaning hard to bear. The rejection 166 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 2: sensitivity is hard to bear, right, So some people actually 167 00:08:40,199 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 2: experience rejection so intensely and so deeply that it feels 168 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 2: completely difficult to bear. And we actually see this to 169 00:08:49,560 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 2: be quite common amongst people who have ADHD, but also 170 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 2: sometimes for people who have a diagnosis of autism, social anxiety, 171 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 2: or even sometimes trauma as well. They have this heightened 172 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 2: sensitivity to actual rejection but also perceived rejection. Okay, so 173 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 2: what I mean by the perceived rejection is that someone 174 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 2: might get a kind of neutral response from someone in 175 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 2: their life, but they perceive that negatively. So if I 176 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 2: was like, hey, is Shanny Like I was watching this 177 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 2: really cool documentary last night? It was really great, and 178 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 2: you were like, oh yeah, and then you're just kind 179 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 2: of like whatever, which. 180 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: Would totally not be my response, like what did you 181 00:09:31,560 --> 00:09:31,839 Speaker 1: put it? 182 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 2: But for some people they just be like Okay, she's 183 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 2: not that interested. Whatever, onto the next conversation. Maybe for 184 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:42,319 Speaker 2: someone with that rejection sensitivity, they might be like, Oh, 185 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 2: why is Shanie not talking to me? Why she's not 186 00:09:44,560 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 2: interested in what I have to say. Maybe I've offended her, 187 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 2: Maybe I've upset her. Did I say something that was 188 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 2: mean to her? What was that interaction like yesterday? You know, 189 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 2: I would go over it. I would ruminate about it 190 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 2: in my head, and I would look for the thing 191 00:09:57,560 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 2: that I did that might have made you not like me. 192 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 2: So this rejection sensitivity is not just in relation to 193 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:11,319 Speaker 2: actual rejections, but it's perceived rejections as well. 194 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 3: It's really cool to hear you talk about perceived rejections 195 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 3: because I haven't heard it in that way before. I 196 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 3: guess in my world, because you know, i'd like to 197 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 3: say I'm a pretty self aware person, and it's really great. 198 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 3: But also there's the other side to it where I 199 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 3: can overanalyze things, right, So I think it's just nice 200 00:10:28,560 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 3: to know that, Oh, okay, cool, there's choice in how 201 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 3: I can show up in that. But I can imagine 202 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 3: that could be harder for some people that just are 203 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 3: really spiraling in that perceived rejection too. 204 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and in terms of if I bring it back 205 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 2: to the brain in terms of how the brain works. 206 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 2: The more we use a pathway in the brain, the 207 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 2: stronger it becomes. Right, So the more I am attuned 208 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,559 Speaker 2: to looking for rejection in my life, the more I'm 209 00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 2: going to find it, because the more I'll see it, 210 00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 2: or the more I'll interpret situations in that way, and 211 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 2: It'll become a very automatic go to lens through which 212 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 2: I view social interactions and the world. 213 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 3: Interesting too, because I know, at the beginning of this 214 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 3: conversation you talked a lot about from an evolutionary perspective, 215 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 3: and it's really fascinating because I know for so many people, 216 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 3: including myself, we walk around the world fearing rejection. Right, 217 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 3: So then we start to change the way that we 218 00:11:27,680 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 3: might show up. We you know, we might actually really 219 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 3: like connecting with someone that's new at work, and you're like, oh, 220 00:11:33,560 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 3: I kind of want to be friends with them, but 221 00:11:35,680 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 3: you know, you're a bit nervous because there's that fear 222 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 3: of rejection, and you know that shows up in so 223 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 3: many places. But what I'm hearing in this which I 224 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 3: feel like we're a bit of a broken record because 225 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 3: we kn't of say similar things in a lot of 226 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 3: the episodes. But you know, rejection is inevitable, like it 227 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 3: is going to happen. We don't need to fear it. 228 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 3: But also it's okay too, because that's our humanness right 229 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 3: coming through. 230 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's not a matter of if, but when you 231 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 2: will be rejected. 232 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And it's always a really good opportunity to 233 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 3: learn more about ourselves, even though it sucks in the moment, 234 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 3: but yeah, it always comes back to, Okay, what are 235 00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 3: my values? What is it telling me about myself? So 236 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 3: there is beautiful opportunities that can come from it. 237 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 2: And I mean it's not like we're the only ones 238 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 2: to be rejected in the world. Everyone gets rejected, as 239 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 2: we've said, and I find it kind of useful to 240 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 2: sometimes look towards big celebrities or famous people who share 241 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 2: their stories about rejection. I know the Beatles have a 242 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 2: really kind of well known one where they originally auditioned 243 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 2: to get signed with Decca Records back in the sixties, 244 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 2: and they basically were like, no, we're not signing you. 245 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 2: We don't like your sound and anyway, like guitar groups 246 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 2: are going out of style, they're not going to be 247 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 2: the future. And then they go on to get signed 248 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 2: by another record label and become massive. I mean they 249 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 2: became the Beatles, right, So it's like they got rejected 250 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 2: and look at them now. 251 00:12:54,680 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 3: Wow. And it's so interesting because as you're saying that, 252 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 3: it makes me think about Mindy Kayling. Absolutely love that woman, Mindy, 253 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 3: if you're listening, I love you. But I heard that 254 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 3: she initially got rejected from a sketch show where she 255 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 3: was literally auditioning to play her and she didn't even 256 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 3: get the part because apparently they say that she wasn't 257 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 3: pretty enough or something like that. I know, whoever that 258 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 3: person was, anyway, I know I was very angry. But 259 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 3: from that rejection, she ended up making her own show 260 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 3: called The MINDI Project, which love it amazing. I love 261 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 3: the MINDI Project so but just like it. It's so 262 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 3: nice and validating to know that, oh, yeah, everyone goes 263 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 3: through rejection and often it just leads to better outcomes. 264 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's not like everyone goes through rejection and 265 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 2: ends up just being sad and lonely. People go through 266 00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 2: rejection and end up having great careers and great lives 267 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 2: as well, So a lot of good can come out 268 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 2: the other end. 269 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: After the break. 270 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 3: Docd Anastasia is going to unpack how we should respond 271 00:13:55,880 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 3: to rejection in a healthy way. Okay, anthesia, What should 272 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 3: we do if we are feeling rejected? 273 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 1: Right now? Give us the roadmap? 274 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 2: Okay, the roadmap comes in three parts this time. Okay, 275 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 2: first thing, name the pain? Okay, what is it that 276 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 2: I'm feeling and why does this rejection hurt so much? 277 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 2: What do I feel like this rejection says about me? 278 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 2: Is it me thinking I'm not pretty enough, I'm not 279 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 2: good enough, I'm not smart enough, I'm not competent enough. 280 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 2: What is that belief that's underlying that pain? 281 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 3: Right? 282 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 2: If you can identify that for yourself, then you can 283 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 2: work with that. 284 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 4: Right. 285 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 2: What's the narrative? What's the story? What's the message I'm 286 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 2: telling myself about what this rejection means to me? So, 287 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 2: if I apply for a job and I don't get it, 288 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 2: am I telling myself I wasn't smart enough. If I'm 289 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 2: going on a date with someone and they say they 290 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 2: don't want to see me again, am I telling myself 291 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 2: I'm not funny enough, or I'm not interesting enough, I'm 292 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 2: not pretty enough. Try and identify what those deeper beliefs 293 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 2: are that you hold about yourself that are kind of 294 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 2: being triggered up to the surface. 295 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 3: I love that because it's kind of just getting to 296 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 3: the root of why we're feeling that way. 297 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah, And the reality is these beliefs often get 298 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 2: triggered up repeatedly. If I have this kind of wound 299 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 2: around I'm not pretty enough, It's probably going to come 300 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 2: up repeatedly through my life in different circumstances and situations. 301 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 2: So being able to identify it for myself can actually 302 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 2: be really helpful in a lot of different ways. 303 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 3: And that just goes to show how important it is 304 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 3: to sub avoiding what the actual root causes as well, 305 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 3: because we just then we end up numbing it or 306 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 3: avoiding it, and exactly what you said, we keep going 307 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 3: around in circles and circles. 308 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 2: Yes, the avoiding it is only temporary until the next 309 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 2: time something triggers. 310 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: It back up. Yeah. Okay, so that's the first part. 311 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. So first part is just being able to name 312 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 2: the pain, identify it for ourselves. What am I feeling 313 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 2: and what's the belief The second part, this is where 314 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 2: we challenge the pain that's coming with the rejection. Right, 315 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 2: I'm not going to actually sit here and give you 316 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 2: a like it's not you, it's them kind of like message. 317 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 2: It might make us all feel warm and fuzzy. I'm 318 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 2: gonna kind of push us a little bit on this. Right, 319 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 2: What I want you to do, if you're listening along 320 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 2: and you want to try this, I want you to 321 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 2: look at yourself. What I mean by that is almost 322 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 2: like take a bird's eye view of yourself right now? 323 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 2: Where are you? You sitting on a seat, so you walking 324 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 2: down the street, or you in the office. Where are you? 325 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 2: Look at yourself? Take the bird's eye view. Okay, so 326 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 2: if you can see yourself, I want you to take 327 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 2: it one step further. Zoom a bit further out and 328 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 2: look at everyone in the street. Right, get that visual 329 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 2: in your mind of like the whole street. We're in 330 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 2: the city now, So imagining the whole street full of 331 00:16:56,760 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 2: people buzzing around in their working week. Right, Zoom out further. 332 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,959 Speaker 2: Imagine the whole suburb full of people going about their 333 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,479 Speaker 2: day doing their thing. Zoom out further. Imagine the whole 334 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 2: country and all the people who are doing all their things. 335 00:17:12,399 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 2: Zoom out further, imagine the whole world. Okay, you are 336 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 2: one person in amongst all the stuff that's going on, 337 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 2: all the things that are happening. You are one person 338 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 2: in one moment in time in the history of time. 339 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 3: Right. 340 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 2: We are the center of our own world. Everything feels 341 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 2: really personal to us, main character energy. 342 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 3: Right. 343 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 2: The reality is we are a blip in the ocean. 344 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 2: So true, and that one rejection is just a moment 345 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,719 Speaker 2: in time that will come and it will go. And 346 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 2: I can assure you when it's two months, two years, 347 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 2: twenty years down the track, you're probably not going to 348 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 2: be thinking back on this moment where you've been rejected. 349 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:01,120 Speaker 2: So my takeaway is get perspective. Yes it hurts, yes 350 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 2: it doesn't feel good, but it's one moment in time. 351 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 2: It's one rejection, it's one interview, it's one date, it's 352 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 2: one person. 353 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 3: I really love that that is such. I mean that 354 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,880 Speaker 3: visualization was great. I was gone in places I was like, whoa, 355 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:17,880 Speaker 3: I'm seeing the whole. 356 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: World and me this little tiny ant. 357 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 5: But it is so true. 358 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 3: Really does help to shift perspectives and realize, oh, okay, yeah, 359 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 3: this is gonna be okay. 360 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 1: And I think that also goes to show too. 361 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 3: Sometimes when I don't know, I find when I've got 362 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 3: friends and mentors who are older than me, that there 363 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 3: is this kind of feeling of wisdom that comes through 364 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:42,360 Speaker 3: being like oh just you just you right, oh that 365 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 3: little thing that feels like a big thing, but it's 366 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,640 Speaker 3: I mean, that's part of the process, right, perspective. 367 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:51,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'll say that for me, like the times 368 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 2: I've really felt that perspective. I go out to rural 369 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 2: parts of Australia for some of my work and in 370 00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 2: particular go right to like broken hill and things like that, 371 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 2: so I'm like in the middle of nowhere. Sometimes I'm 372 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,400 Speaker 2: in the middle of the desert and the bush and 373 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:10,160 Speaker 2: when you sit out and it's silence and you've just 374 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 2: it's got landscape and just vastness around you, you really 375 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 2: just feel like this just just this spec in the world. 376 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 2: And I think that can be really humbling for us, 377 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:25,199 Speaker 2: and it can really give us needed perspective away from 378 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 2: the busyness of life, away from us constantly trying to 379 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 2: like reach the next goal and hustle and and go 380 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 2: forward with trying to achieve things. 381 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: That's so true. Okay, So how about the third one 382 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: third one? 383 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 2: Because I don't want to I don't want to break 384 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 2: everyone down and be like you're just this one moment. 385 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 2: You're not that special. 386 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: He's just a little blip. 387 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 2: Get some perspective, but its perspective and surround it all off. 388 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:57,199 Speaker 2: Finish off with telling yourself if you think you're proud 389 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,640 Speaker 2: of yourself for now. Proud is a word I use, 390 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,479 Speaker 2: and sometimes people don't like it because they're like, oh, 391 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:04,400 Speaker 2: it's not good to be It's not good to have pride, 392 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 2: it's not good to be too proud. But you know, 393 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,400 Speaker 2: a healthy amount of being proud of ourselves is being 394 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 2: able to acknowledge, you know what, I've done a good 395 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 2: job or I've been a good person. I'm proud of 396 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 2: who I am. And so I sometimes get people to 397 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 2: reflect at the end of the day on three things 398 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,120 Speaker 2: they're proud of themselves for, and I say, don't look 399 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 2: for the big, life changing things. Don't be like I'm 400 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,679 Speaker 2: proud I got that job I was striving for for years. 401 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:33,120 Speaker 2: Find the small moments in the day that you're proud 402 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 2: of yourself for. It's like, oh, you know what, I 403 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 2: held the door open for that person as they were 404 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 2: going through this morning. I'm proud of myself for taking 405 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 2: the moment to do that and not just rushing through 406 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 2: or I'm proud of myself for taking the time to 407 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 2: really talk to my friend who was struggling even though 408 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,360 Speaker 2: I was really busy, and I made that time for them. 409 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 2: I'm proud of myself for that. Or I'm proud of 410 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 2: myself because I had a tough conversation with my boss 411 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 2: today and it wasn't easy and I asserted my needs 412 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 2: and I'm proud of myself for doing that. Find the 413 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 2: small moments in the day that you can be proud 414 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 2: of yourself for because they're actually not that small, they're 415 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 2: really significant and they all add up. 416 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 3: It's so great that you kind of end it on 417 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 3: that note, like, I know you've got the three parts, 418 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 3: because you know, rejection and all of that can really hurt. 419 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 3: But then when we reflect on moments that we're proud of, 420 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 3: it's really nice to see your own character as well. 421 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:24,719 Speaker 3: And I think this is what I do a lot with, 422 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 3: you know, the work that I've done with teenage girls 423 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 3: but also women. It's also looking at, okay, being proud 424 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,160 Speaker 3: of what were the character traits that really showed up. Oh, 425 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 3: I'm really proud of the courage that it took to 426 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 3: talk to my boss because I know I was freaking 427 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 3: out about that, you know, And I think it's just 428 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 3: really nice because when we have those moments to reflect, 429 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 3: it also just gives us more insight into our values, 430 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 3: what's important to us. I mean, everything always comes back 431 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,400 Speaker 3: to values, like as you would know from season one. 432 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: But I really love that. 433 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 2: And the thing is, those character traits that we reflect on, 434 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 2: no one can take those away from us, so true, 435 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 2: they're ours, right. Someone can take away a job, we 436 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 2: can have, someone end a relationship, a friendship, we can 437 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 2: lose our home, we can lose physical practical things in 438 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 2: our life, but no one can take away from us 439 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:15,400 Speaker 2: those core character traits. The courage, the ambition, the hard work, 440 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,919 Speaker 2: the compassion, all those character traits that we have that 441 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 2: we're proud of ourselves for having. No one can take 442 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 2: those from us. So Shanny, I'm going to throw it 443 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 2: to you and put you on the spot, Oh we 444 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 2: love it, and get you to get you to share 445 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 2: and get you to practice. What are a couple of 446 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 2: things that you're proud of yourself for? 447 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: Oh, a couple of things. Okay, let me get out 448 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: of my scroll. 449 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 3: Okay, I am proud of my open mindedness. I feel 450 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 3: like we had some issues with the trains yesterday, and 451 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie. I was feeling quite frustrated initially, 452 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 3: but then just being able to work through that and 453 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 3: then seeing what's the lesson and the gift in it, 454 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 3: like I eventually got this. I'm really proud of my 455 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 3: open mindedness throughout that process. 456 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 2: Good. 457 00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: I'm proud of of my. 458 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 3: I guess I'm proud of my courage to lean into 459 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 3: new things, like even you know, doing this podcast, you know, 460 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 3: like I know this is our second season, and I 461 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 3: don't know. 462 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 4: I'm getting a bit emotional, you're priy. 463 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, well yeah, because I think you know, when you 464 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,959 Speaker 3: do something new, like there is that initial feeling of, 465 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 3: oh am I going to do a good job, like 466 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 3: how's this going to land? And then I don't know, 467 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 3: I just really feel like this is something that's really 468 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 3: lighting me up, and I'm finding a real sense of 469 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 3: purpose in that. But I feel like it's through my 470 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 3: resilience of going through like the initial hardship of oh 471 00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 3: how do I find my feeding this? 472 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: You know, it's a whole skill. So I'm really proud 473 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 1: of myself for that. 474 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 2: Oh, we're proud of you too, Thanks guys. So to recap. 475 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 2: The takeaway if you're dealing with rejection in this moment 476 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 2: is first up, name the pain, name it for yourself. Second, 477 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:11,679 Speaker 2: get some perspective. This is one rejection in one moment 478 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 2: in time, in the whole history of your life, of 479 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 2: what's happened and what's to come. And Third, reflect on 480 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,640 Speaker 2: the things that you're proud of yourself, for those character 481 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 2: traits that you have internally within you that no one 482 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 2: can take away from you. 483 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 3: After this shortbreak, we hear from a woman who's trying 484 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 3: to navigate rejecting a romantic partner. 485 00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: Stay with us Bierb. 486 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:45,400 Speaker 2: Bierb bib so empowering a serious Christians BRB having a crisis. 487 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,400 Speaker 3: We've reached that time in our episode where we answer 488 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 3: a question or dilemma from one of you, our listeners. 489 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 3: This dilemma comes from Sally. 490 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: I've been rejected. 491 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 5: Before and it sucked, but now I'm on the other side, 492 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 5: and honestly, it's just as hard. I've been dating someone 493 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 5: for a little while and I've realized they're just not 494 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 5: right for me. I tried to end things gently over text, 495 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,159 Speaker 5: something honest but kind, saying I felt the chapter close, 496 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 5: but there's still like the breakup didn't quite land. I 497 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 5: don't want to ghost them, but I also don't want 498 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,640 Speaker 5: to crush their confidence or make it seem like it's 499 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 5: all their fault. The messages keep flooding in, though. How 500 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 5: do you reject someone with compassion and clarity without dragging 501 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,400 Speaker 5: it out or causing emotional damage? 502 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 2: Ooh, that's hard. This is a tough one. And actually 503 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 2: I want to say straight up that this feels like 504 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,120 Speaker 2: not just an uncomfortable situation, but one of those situations 505 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:41,119 Speaker 2: that has the potential to go bad. Right, So just 506 00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:43,439 Speaker 2: make sure that you're safe, look after yourself, and just 507 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 2: be careful. What I'm hearing in this is that you 508 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 2: haven't necessarily ghosted them or not communicated with them. You've 509 00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:53,719 Speaker 2: tried to communicate that thanks but no thanks, you know, 510 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,360 Speaker 2: like we went on some dates or we're seeing each other, 511 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 2: but we're sort of done now. And I think if 512 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:04,439 Speaker 2: you have communicated clearly to someone, then it's okay to 513 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 2: stop communication with them. So you've if you've done the kind, 514 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 2: compassionate thing, right, You've tried to tell them, you know, look, thanks, 515 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 2: but you know, I'm no longer interested in seeing you 516 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 2: or having contact and communication with you. This will be 517 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,360 Speaker 2: my last message to you. I wish you all the best. 518 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 2: You know we can send that message with compassion and 519 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 2: kindness as well as firmness, and if someone keeps pushing 520 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:32,199 Speaker 2: past that, I believe it's okay to not continue responding 521 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 2: and hopefully eventually that person gets the message. But I 522 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 2: do want to say just be careful in that, make 523 00:26:37,120 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 2: sure that you're well supported, because not everyone does respond 524 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 2: well to rejection. And I guess that's what we're seeing here. 525 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 2: This person isn't necessarily taking on board the message that 526 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 2: you're giving them. They're even not reading it, or they're 527 00:26:50,120 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 2: unwilling to kind of accept it. But that's not your 528 00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:55,880 Speaker 2: problem at the end of the day. And Sally, I'll 529 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 2: also add that you're not alone in this, like we 530 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 2: do see this happen unfortunately when people do enter relationships 531 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,400 Speaker 2: or they go on dates with people and then they 532 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 2: want to end it. Sometimes people can't take no for 533 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 2: an answer very easily, unfortunately, and that means that you 534 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 2: end up on the receiving end of a lot of 535 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 2: contact and communication. So if you are feeling like you're 536 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 2: struggling with it, do reach out to friends and family 537 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 2: for support, get that support in your life. If it 538 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 2: feels necessary, you can take the step to block that person, 539 00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 2: but do what feels right for you. Keep yourself safe, 540 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 2: and remember as long as you have communicated clearly and compassionately, 541 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 2: which sounds like you have, then you don't need to 542 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 2: continue the contact. 543 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: Good luck, Sally, Anastasia. 544 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 3: Can you give us the main takeaways from today's episode? 545 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,680 Speaker 2: Sure can. First of all, rejection hurts, and I mean 546 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 2: really hurts, almost as much as physical pain. Second, if 547 00:27:55,600 --> 00:28:00,159 Speaker 2: you're struggling with rejection, name your pain, get some perspective, 548 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 2: and then remind yourself of the things that you're proud 549 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 2: of yourself for. Last of all, you are not alone 550 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 2: in your rejection. It happens to all of us and 551 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 2: it's just a part of being human. 552 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 3: This is our last episode for this season, and we 553 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 3: hope you've got a lot out of the topics we've 554 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 3: discussed so far, such as ADHD, trauma, body image, adult anxiety. 555 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:24,479 Speaker 1: The list goes on. 556 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 3: I know for me, I've definitely gotten a lot from 557 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 3: all of these episodes. If there's a topic you want 558 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 3: to know more about, scroll back in the feed and 559 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 3: see if we've covered it, or if you have a 560 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 3: burning question or topic for us, There's a few ways 561 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 3: to get in touch with us, links through in the 562 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 3: show notes. 563 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 2: And remember, while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't 564 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 2: a diagnostic tool, and the advice and ideas we present 565 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 2: here should always take into account your personal medical history. 566 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 2: The executive producer of But Are You Happy? Is nam 567 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 2: A Brown. 568 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Charlie Blackman. 569 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 2: Sound design and editing by Tina Matlov. 570 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: I'm a Shani Dante. 571 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 2: And I'm doctor Anaesthesia heronus. The names and stories of 572 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 2: clients discussed have been changed for the purpose of maintaining anonymity. 573 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 2: If this conversation brought off any difficult feelings for you, 574 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 2: we have links for more resources in the show notes 575 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 2: around the topics we discussed today. You can also reach 576 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 2: out to organizations like Beyond Blue or Lifeline if you're 577 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 2: wanting more immediate support. 578 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,959 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening and we'll see you again next season. 579 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 3: Want to win a ten dollar e gift card and 580 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 3: a Mumma mea subscription free for one month, Give us 581 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 3: twenty minutes of your time and fill out a short 582 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 3: survey so you can better understand, So we can better 583 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 3: understand you our audience, and what content you want from us. 584 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: You'll find a link in our show notes