Speaker 1: You're listening to I'm Ama mea podcast.
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to biz Your work life Sorted. I'm
Speaker 2: m Burnham and today we're demolishing everything you thought you
Speaker 2: knew about mentorship. Get it out of your mind. If
Speaker 2: you're jealous of those people who have that one perfect
Speaker 2: mentor that guided their entire career, guess what, Lucky for you,
Speaker 2: you shouldn't be. We are throwing that out of the window.
Speaker 2: It's twenty twenty five and we're doing mentorship differently. Now
Speaker 2: think less marriage proposal and more dating professional dating that is,
Speaker 2: I'm less no professional dating like always. I'm joined by
Speaker 2: our wonderful career coaches. Michelle Battisbee, who was an entrepreneur
Speaker 2: and launched Bumble in Australia. She now runs her own
Speaker 2: startup and so of hers. She's the one who took
Speaker 2: a leap from Google to launch her own coaching program
Speaker 2: for people in their early career era, just like myself.
Speaker 2: They will be talking about the new era of mentorship
Speaker 2: and we think you're going to love this one. Plus
Speaker 2: Sofa is going to tell you exactly how to secure
Speaker 2: that dream mentor.
Speaker 1: Michelle, do you have a mentor yourself?
Speaker 3: My initial response to that question is no, But it's
Speaker 3: because I haven't put a formal label on the relationships
Speaker 3: I have with people I get advice from. I think
Speaker 3: having a mentor is really just having someone that you
Speaker 3: trust and respect and you can learn from their experiences.
Speaker 3: So with that in mind, yes, I do have mentors,
Speaker 3: and I do like thinking about mentoring in a more
Speaker 3: disarming way where it's not this scary, rigid, formal thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why I'm so excited to get into this episode.
Speaker 3: So this idea of a single mentor or a series
Speaker 3: of mentors is really just like being in an open relationship.
Speaker 3: You can collect an army of brilliant brains with different
Speaker 3: experiences that you can learn from to expand your own career.
Speaker 3: I kind of love the open relationship analogy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And just to continue that further, so,
Speaker 1: if you look at the traditional model for mentorship, you'd
Speaker 1: have this one person and you'd have this long term
Speaker 1: relationship with them. The problem with it is that often
Speaker 1: it would just get a bit weird, the vibes would
Speaker 1: sort of die. It would often start strong and then
Speaker 1: end really awkwardly. And also, like a relationship, you sort
Speaker 1: of had all this pressure to find this one perfect person,
Speaker 1: and I felt this so much. You know, I grew
Speaker 1: up in regional in New South Wales. I went to
Speaker 1: UNI and it felt like after UNI everyone got into
Speaker 1: the workforce and everyone kind of had a mentor. You know.
Speaker 1: I didn't have a business network around it, had no
Speaker 1: clue how to find a mentor myself, and I just
Speaker 1: felt really intimidated by the whole thing and like I'd
Speaker 1: already fails because I didn't have a mentor in my career.
Speaker 1: So what we want to have, hell you guys do
Speaker 1: is to actually reframe what mentorship is and we want
Speaker 1: to explain the new way to do it. Hit us
Speaker 1: with it. So for what is the new way to
Speaker 1: do mentorship? So instead of having this one single mentor
Speaker 1: that you might have ten chats with in the year,
Speaker 1: we want you to think about ten different people that
Speaker 1: you have one conversation with. So this is a series
Speaker 1: of mental chats where you have intentional conversations with specific
Speaker 1: people to actually learn something and to figure something out.
Speaker 1: So it's much more specific. Michelle. The reason that I
Speaker 1: actually think this is a way better approach one you
Speaker 1: would be so surprised by who is actually willing to
Speaker 1: say yes when it's a once off conversation versus an
Speaker 1: ongoing commitment. Two, these conversations are more specific, so you're
Speaker 1: going to prep for them. They're more specific and targeted
Speaker 1: versus a traditional mentorship relationship, which can often be quite
Speaker 1: general and sometimes you just sort of feel like you're
Speaker 1: filling the space with questions. So it's more specific and
Speaker 1: therefore much more practical. And then three, actually think this
Speaker 1: approach is way more inclusive, so anyone can make this
Speaker 1: work for them, and you don't have to have sort
Speaker 1: of a big existing network of people that you know
Speaker 1: or work for a really big company. Anyone can make
Speaker 1: this approach work.
Speaker 3: I love this so much because it also sounds like
Speaker 3: there won't be any awkward breakups with this sort of process.
Speaker 3: I became fascinated by this and went out on my
Speaker 3: Instagram stories and I run a poll and eighty three
Speaker 3: percent of people came back to me saying that they
Speaker 3: did not have a mentor, which blew my mind. And
Speaker 3: I then asked a follow up question, which was, if
Speaker 3: you don't have a mentor but you want one, what
Speaker 3: are the blockers? And my question box responses have never
Speaker 3: been more packed and the replies were pretty consistent. So
Speaker 3: lots of people want a mentor, but they've got these blockers,
Speaker 3: and a big one is cost. People are wondering how
Speaker 3: much does it cost? How do you determine that with
Speaker 3: a mentor, which we'll get into. They don't know who
Speaker 3: to ask, and they don't know how to ask. So
Speaker 3: this is your bread and butter. This is what you
Speaker 3: do at work.
Speaker 1: Baby.
Speaker 3: Let's start with what actually is a mentor.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's bust some myths. So a mentor is anyone
Speaker 1: where you learn from their experiences and then you apply
Speaker 1: that knowledge to your own situation. So by asking them questions,
Speaker 1: am I listening? I think it's helpful to know the
Speaker 1: difference between a mentor and a coach. So a mentor
Speaker 1: is someone where the conversation is mostly about that other person,
Speaker 1: so you're listening to them and you're applying that to
Speaker 1: your own situation. And a mentor conversation is unpaid, they
Speaker 1: should really be unpaid, versus a coach, where in a
Speaker 1: coaching conversation, the focus of that conversation is typically on you,
Speaker 1: so they're gonna ask you questions and guide you and
Speaker 1: give you frameworks. But it's really fully customized to you
Speaker 1: and your situation. Because of that, these conversations are typically paid.
Speaker 1: You know, I was pretty shocked actually to see in
Speaker 1: some of those dms, Michelle, that people were saying, you know,
Speaker 1: how much should I actually pay a mentor? Or I
Speaker 1: can't afford to pay a mentor? Well, the answer to
Speaker 1: how much should I pay mentor is actually zero because
Speaker 1: a true mental relationship should be unpaid because there is
Speaker 1: this mutual value exchange, so the mentor gets something out
Speaker 1: of it too. So I actually do both free mentorship
Speaker 1: and also paid coaching. You know, I've got five different
Speaker 1: people that I mentor right now, and I get so
Speaker 1: much out of these conversations with them. I think, you know,
Speaker 1: the way that they emailed me, the vibe that we
Speaker 1: had in that first chat meant that, hey, I actually
Speaker 1: do want to stay in touch with these people, these young, smart,
Speaker 1: ambitious people. I get so much out of it. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a mutual value exchange. But typically a mentorship should
Speaker 1: be unpaid.
Speaker 3: Honestly, I think that will surprise so many people that definition,
Speaker 3: and as you're walking through it, it also, on the
Speaker 3: flip side, expands the kinds of people that you could
Speaker 3: work with like for example, I do meturing as well.
Speaker 3: I don't do coaching. I don't believe I could do coaching.
Speaker 3: So I think there are a lot of people out
Speaker 3: there that are willing to share their experiences in more
Speaker 3: of a mentoring capacity.
Speaker 1: So I honestly feel.
Speaker 3: Like most people would be down to accept, you know,
Speaker 3: mentoring someone who is looking to propel themselves forward. And
Speaker 3: on your point as well, like from the mentor, you're
Speaker 3: sitting there thinking just take from me, extract from me,
Speaker 3: like you want them to ask the kinds of questions
Speaker 3: that are going to benefit them and unlock nuggets of
Speaker 3: your gold free of charge, and it feels really.
Speaker 1: Good to do. I think it's about asking it the
Speaker 1: right way.
Speaker 3: So after the break the five sentences to land you
Speaker 3: a mentorship, so we love to give you practical steps
Speaker 3: and advice here. So soph is about to give us
Speaker 3: the three steps to develop your mentor series. And then
Speaker 3: so if I want to ask you what we all
Speaker 3: should not be doing?
Speaker 1: So how do we start? Okay? Step one is to
Speaker 1: really ask yourself why am I doing this? So what
Speaker 1: am I trying to get out of it? And I
Speaker 1: thought it might be helpful to give you a live example.
Speaker 1: So let's use the example of someone who they currently
Speaker 1: work in sales and maybe they want to go and
Speaker 1: work in marketing, and they're kind of thinking like, do
Speaker 1: I do that now or should I just say in
Speaker 1: sales a bit longer and work my way out? So
Speaker 1: Step maumble one is asking yourself, what am I trying
Speaker 1: to get out of it? And why do I want
Speaker 1: to have these chats? Step number two is to actually
Speaker 1: build yourself a short list of people. So to do that,
Speaker 1: you're going to be looking at, Okay, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: pivot my career from sales to marketing. Let me maybe
Speaker 1: try and find some people that have done that. So
Speaker 1: you can first look at your internal network. There might
Speaker 1: be people within your company that have done it. You
Speaker 1: can then go and do a bunch of LinkedIn stalking.
Speaker 1: So people have so much information about their careers. It's
Speaker 1: actually so easy to find people who have done something
Speaker 1: similar to what you're trying to do, and also just
Speaker 1: ask you around. You want to try and land on
Speaker 1: three to five people who have done something similar to
Speaker 1: what you're trying to do. Now on too. Step three,
Speaker 1: which is the very simple five line email that you
Speaker 1: were going to send them, so I wouldn't normally read
Speaker 1: out an email live, but because it's so simple, actually
Speaker 1: just wanted to share that with you. Now, if you're
Speaker 1: up for it, love it, let's go the five lines.
Speaker 1: Line one is high person's name. I know you're busy
Speaker 1: and you get a lot of emails. Part two, you're
Speaker 1: going to start with them. This is very important. So
Speaker 1: you want to show I have spent time researching you,
Speaker 1: I know something about you, and you're going to start
Speaker 1: with them. So an example of that might be I
Speaker 1: admired the way you pivoted your career from X to Y.
Speaker 1: Or it might be I've been following your career for
Speaker 1: a while now and I love the way you talk
Speaker 1: about topic X. Part three you're going to link to
Speaker 1: you and why you actually want to have that conversation.
Speaker 1: So an example might be the reason I'm interested in
Speaker 1: this is because I'm all so trying to pivot my
Speaker 1: career from sales to marketing, and you know, I'm currently
Speaker 1: working in this role at this company and it would
Speaker 1: really help me to understand your process. Line four. It
Speaker 1: would have a huge impact on my career. If you're
Speaker 1: able to give me twenty minutes on the phone or
Speaker 1: zoom for a career chat so I can learn from
Speaker 1: your experiences and five give them an out. So you say,
Speaker 1: I know this is a long shot, and I understand
Speaker 1: you might need to say no due to bandwidth. Even
Speaker 1: getting a reply from you would make my day.
Speaker 3: I love this so like it's making me feel warm
Speaker 3: and fuzzy inside. It's making me feel warm and fuzzy
Speaker 3: if I were to receive something like that, but it's
Speaker 3: also making me feel like I want to challenge myself.
Speaker 3: Now take your template and I want to report back
Speaker 3: by our next episode with like an iconic founder that
Speaker 3: I have used this template for to get to mentor
Speaker 3: me Because I also think an important point is don't
Speaker 3: cut yourself short with who you reach out to. Dream
Speaker 3: big when you write that shortlist of people that you
Speaker 3: want to hit up.
Speaker 1: Even just a story from my own career. So actually,
Speaker 1: one of the best mentor chats I've ever had is
Speaker 1: with the CMO of Telstra, Brent Smart, and I was
Speaker 1: having this amazing chat with him. I think it was
Speaker 1: supposed to be an hour and I got an hour
Speaker 1: and a half. And I mentioned in the chat that
Speaker 1: one of my very junior reports at Google actually is
Speaker 1: a big fan of his and had sent me his
Speaker 1: podcast and Brent said, well, I'll have a mentorship chat
Speaker 1: with him. I was thinking, like, there's no way even
Speaker 1: do that. Anyway, my report emails brand and you know
Speaker 1: the next week he's having a full hour with this
Speaker 1: very senior marketing leader. He was very junior at the time,
Speaker 1: So I think, yeah, exactly what you said, Michelle, don't
Speaker 1: hold back, go for your dream list. And the trick
Speaker 1: is just really keeping it very short, making it about them,
Speaker 1: and explaining why you want to have this conversation, and
Speaker 1: make it specific, and you will be so amazed at
Speaker 1: who is actually going to say yes.
Speaker 3: Last thing for me on this. I also love that
Speaker 3: it wasn't can I take you out for a coffee,
Speaker 3: because I do feel like their effort to go out
Speaker 3: and meet someone can sometimes just be a hurdle that
Speaker 3: you might not have capacity for. But to just jump
Speaker 3: on a phone call or zoom is just making someone
Speaker 3: else's life easier. So I love that guidance on that,
Speaker 3: what are the do's and don'ts, what are the red flags?
Speaker 3: What is not going to land you a date?
Speaker 1: So I actually have a lot of people emailing me
Speaker 1: to ask for mentorship, and so I just want to
Speaker 1: share with you some of the things not to do.
Speaker 1: So the first red flag for me is don't just
Speaker 1: ask someone can I pick your brain? Don't say that
Speaker 1: to them. You really need to show that you've invested
Speaker 1: time in understanding who they are and why you're actually
Speaker 1: having that conversation, so you want to make it specific.
Speaker 1: That's where asking for twenty twenty five minutes on the
Speaker 1: phone call or zoom is great. Don't just say can
Speaker 1: I pick a brain. The other red flag is never
Speaker 1: ask someone to be your mentor. The reason for that
Speaker 1: is I just think like a good mentorship chat, it's
Speaker 1: quite balanced, right, So, like mentors love talking about their
Speaker 1: experience and how they can actually help young up and comers.
Speaker 1: So asking someone to be your mentor, it just starts
Speaker 1: the vibe off as being really weird, and it also
Speaker 1: makes them feel like they're getting into this long term
Speaker 1: relationship but maybe they don't want to be in.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's almost like asking someone to become your committed
Speaker 3: like boyfriend or girlfriend before you've ever been on a
Speaker 3: first date. You might not need the label. Maybe that's
Speaker 3: one of the takeaways from this episode, you might not
Speaker 3: even need that label on the relationship to have a mentor,
Speaker 3: and I think that makes it less scary as well.
Speaker 1: That is exactly it. You're just asking for a career chat,
Speaker 1: you are not asking for them to be a mentor.
Speaker 3: Yeah, love it? Okay, So what are the action points?
Speaker 3: What do I need to do right now to get
Speaker 3: a mentor?
Speaker 1: So step one is to really ask yourself, why am
Speaker 1: I actually doing this? What is the decision I'm trying
Speaker 1: to make, or what am I trying to get better at?
Speaker 1: What am I trying to figure out? Step two is
Speaker 1: you want to get your short list of people, so
Speaker 1: I think you can even set yourself a goal of like,
Speaker 1: I want to do ten of these mentor chats in
Speaker 1: the year, whatever it is for you. And then step
Speaker 1: three is you want to have this email tenplate this
Speaker 1: very short email template, and we have made it super
Speaker 1: easy for you. So we've got it in the Biers newsletter.
Speaker 1: All you have to do is jump into the show
Speaker 1: notes and you can get the subscription link. Subscribe and
Speaker 1: we'll send out that email template to you.
Speaker 2: Finding out that eighty three percent of people don't have
Speaker 2: a mentor has made me feel so much better about
Speaker 2: not having one, and I actually don't even need to
Speaker 2: feel bad about it. If you want that five sentence
Speaker 2: email template that's going to help you land those dream
Speaker 2: mental conversations, it's in our newsletter this week and it's
Speaker 2: absolutely free to sign up. There's a link in our
Speaker 2: show notes.
Speaker 1: For you to do so.
Speaker 2: Also, if you do end up getting a yes from
Speaker 2: your mentor, which I mean of course you will because
Speaker 2: this template is working for everyone, do not stress about
Speaker 2: what to do next. We are going to cover exactly
Speaker 2: how to nail those conversations in a future episode. And
Speaker 2: don't forget our beiz Inbox episode drops sis Thursday, where
Speaker 2: we answer all of your career dilemmas. Check the show
Speaker 2: notes to find out how to submit your work questions.
Speaker 2: See you next time. Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners
Speaker 2: of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on