WEBVTT - You Don’t Need A Work Mentor, You Need This Instead

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to I'm Ama mea podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello and welcome to biz Your work life Sorted. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>m Burnham and today we're demolishing everything you thought you

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<v Speaker 2>knew about mentorship. Get it out of your mind. If

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<v Speaker 2>you're jealous of those people who have that one perfect

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<v Speaker 2>mentor that guided their entire career, guess what, Lucky for you,

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<v Speaker 2>you shouldn't be. We are throwing that out of the window.

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<v Speaker 2>It's twenty twenty five and we're doing mentorship differently. Now

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<v Speaker 2>think less marriage proposal and more dating professional dating that is,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm less no professional dating like always. I'm joined by

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<v Speaker 2>our wonderful career coaches. Michelle Battisbee, who was an entrepreneur

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<v Speaker 2>and launched Bumble in Australia. She now runs her own

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<v Speaker 2>startup and so of hers. She's the one who took

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<v Speaker 2>a leap from Google to launch her own coaching program

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<v Speaker 2>for people in their early career era, just like myself.

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<v Speaker 2>They will be talking about the new era of mentorship

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<v Speaker 2>and we think you're going to love this one. Plus

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<v Speaker 2>Sofa is going to tell you exactly how to secure

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<v Speaker 2>that dream mentor.

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<v Speaker 1>Michelle, do you have a mentor yourself?

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<v Speaker 3>My initial response to that question is no, But it's

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<v Speaker 3>because I haven't put a formal label on the relationships

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<v Speaker 3>I have with people I get advice from. I think

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<v Speaker 3>having a mentor is really just having someone that you

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<v Speaker 3>trust and respect and you can learn from their experiences.

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<v Speaker 3>So with that in mind, yes, I do have mentors,

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<v Speaker 3>and I do like thinking about mentoring in a more

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<v Speaker 3>disarming way where it's not this scary, rigid, formal thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's why I'm so excited to get into this episode.

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<v Speaker 3>So this idea of a single mentor or a series

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<v Speaker 3>of mentors is really just like being in an open relationship.

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<v Speaker 3>You can collect an army of brilliant brains with different

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<v Speaker 3>experiences that you can learn from to expand your own career.

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<v Speaker 3>I kind of love the open relationship analogy.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah. And just to continue that further, so,

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<v Speaker 1>if you look at the traditional model for mentorship, you'd

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<v Speaker 1>have this one person and you'd have this long term

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<v Speaker 1>relationship with them. The problem with it is that often

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<v Speaker 1>it would just get a bit weird, the vibes would

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<v Speaker 1>sort of die. It would often start strong and then

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<v Speaker 1>end really awkwardly. And also, like a relationship, you sort

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<v Speaker 1>of had all this pressure to find this one perfect person,

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<v Speaker 1>and I felt this so much. You know, I grew

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<v Speaker 1>up in regional in New South Wales. I went to

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<v Speaker 1>UNI and it felt like after UNI everyone got into

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<v Speaker 1>the workforce and everyone kind of had a mentor. You know.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't have a business network around it, had no

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<v Speaker 1>clue how to find a mentor myself, and I just

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<v Speaker 1>felt really intimidated by the whole thing and like I'd

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<v Speaker 1>already fails because I didn't have a mentor in my career.

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<v Speaker 1>So what we want to have, hell you guys do

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<v Speaker 1>is to actually reframe what mentorship is and we want

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<v Speaker 1>to explain the new way to do it. Hit us

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<v Speaker 1>with it. So for what is the new way to

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<v Speaker 1>do mentorship? So instead of having this one single mentor

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<v Speaker 1>that you might have ten chats with in the year,

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<v Speaker 1>we want you to think about ten different people that

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<v Speaker 1>you have one conversation with. So this is a series

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<v Speaker 1>of mental chats where you have intentional conversations with specific

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<v Speaker 1>people to actually learn something and to figure something out.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's much more specific. Michelle. The reason that I

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<v Speaker 1>actually think this is a way better approach one you

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<v Speaker 1>would be so surprised by who is actually willing to

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<v Speaker 1>say yes when it's a once off conversation versus an

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<v Speaker 1>ongoing commitment. Two, these conversations are more specific, so you're

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<v Speaker 1>going to prep for them. They're more specific and targeted

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<v Speaker 1>versus a traditional mentorship relationship, which can often be quite

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<v Speaker 1>general and sometimes you just sort of feel like you're

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<v Speaker 1>filling the space with questions. So it's more specific and

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<v Speaker 1>therefore much more practical. And then three, actually think this

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<v Speaker 1>approach is way more inclusive, so anyone can make this

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<v Speaker 1>work for them, and you don't have to have sort

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<v Speaker 1>of a big existing network of people that you know

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<v Speaker 1>or work for a really big company. Anyone can make

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<v Speaker 1>this approach work.

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<v Speaker 3>I love this so much because it also sounds like

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<v Speaker 3>there won't be any awkward breakups with this sort of process.

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<v Speaker 3>I became fascinated by this and went out on my

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<v Speaker 3>Instagram stories and I run a poll and eighty three

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<v Speaker 3>percent of people came back to me saying that they

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<v Speaker 3>did not have a mentor, which blew my mind. And

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<v Speaker 3>I then asked a follow up question, which was, if

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<v Speaker 3>you don't have a mentor but you want one, what

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<v Speaker 3>are the blockers? And my question box responses have never

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<v Speaker 3>been more packed and the replies were pretty consistent. So

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<v Speaker 3>lots of people want a mentor, but they've got these blockers,

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<v Speaker 3>and a big one is cost. People are wondering how

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<v Speaker 3>much does it cost? How do you determine that with

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<v Speaker 3>a mentor, which we'll get into. They don't know who

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<v Speaker 3>to ask, and they don't know how to ask. So

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<v Speaker 3>this is your bread and butter. This is what you

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<v Speaker 3>do at work.

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<v Speaker 1>Baby.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's start with what actually is a mentor.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, let's bust some myths. So a mentor is anyone

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<v Speaker 1>where you learn from their experiences and then you apply

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<v Speaker 1>that knowledge to your own situation. So by asking them questions,

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<v Speaker 1>am I listening? I think it's helpful to know the

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<v Speaker 1>difference between a mentor and a coach. So a mentor

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<v Speaker 1>is someone where the conversation is mostly about that other person,

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<v Speaker 1>so you're listening to them and you're applying that to

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<v Speaker 1>your own situation. And a mentor conversation is unpaid, they

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<v Speaker 1>should really be unpaid, versus a coach, where in a

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<v Speaker 1>coaching conversation, the focus of that conversation is typically on you,

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<v Speaker 1>so they're gonna ask you questions and guide you and

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<v Speaker 1>give you frameworks. But it's really fully customized to you

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<v Speaker 1>and your situation. Because of that, these conversations are typically paid.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I was pretty shocked actually to see in

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<v Speaker 1>some of those dms, Michelle, that people were saying, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>how much should I actually pay a mentor? Or I

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<v Speaker 1>can't afford to pay a mentor? Well, the answer to

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<v Speaker 1>how much should I pay mentor is actually zero because

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<v Speaker 1>a true mental relationship should be unpaid because there is

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<v Speaker 1>this mutual value exchange, so the mentor gets something out

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<v Speaker 1>of it too. So I actually do both free mentorship

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<v Speaker 1>and also paid coaching. You know, I've got five different

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<v Speaker 1>people that I mentor right now, and I get so

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<v Speaker 1>much out of these conversations with them. I think, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the way that they emailed me, the vibe that we

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<v Speaker 1>had in that first chat meant that, hey, I actually

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<v Speaker 1>do want to stay in touch with these people, these young, smart,

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<v Speaker 1>ambitious people. I get so much out of it. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a mutual value exchange. But typically a mentorship should

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<v Speaker 1>be unpaid.

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<v Speaker 3>Honestly, I think that will surprise so many people that definition,

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<v Speaker 3>and as you're walking through it, it also, on the

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<v Speaker 3>flip side, expands the kinds of people that you could

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<v Speaker 3>work with like for example, I do meturing as well.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't do coaching. I don't believe I could do coaching.

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<v Speaker 3>So I think there are a lot of people out

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<v Speaker 3>there that are willing to share their experiences in more

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<v Speaker 3>of a mentoring capacity.

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<v Speaker 1>So I honestly feel.

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<v Speaker 3>Like most people would be down to accept, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>mentoring someone who is looking to propel themselves forward. And

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<v Speaker 3>on your point as well, like from the mentor, you're

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<v Speaker 3>sitting there thinking just take from me, extract from me,

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<v Speaker 3>like you want them to ask the kinds of questions

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<v Speaker 3>that are going to benefit them and unlock nuggets of

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<v Speaker 3>your gold free of charge, and it feels really.

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<v Speaker 1>Good to do. I think it's about asking it the

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<v Speaker 1>right way.

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<v Speaker 3>So after the break the five sentences to land you

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<v Speaker 3>a mentorship, so we love to give you practical steps

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<v Speaker 3>and advice here. So soph is about to give us

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<v Speaker 3>the three steps to develop your mentor series. And then

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<v Speaker 3>so if I want to ask you what we all

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<v Speaker 3>should not be doing?

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<v Speaker 1>So how do we start? Okay? Step one is to

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<v Speaker 1>really ask yourself why am I doing this? So what

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<v Speaker 1>am I trying to get out of it? And I

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<v Speaker 1>thought it might be helpful to give you a live example.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's use the example of someone who they currently

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<v Speaker 1>work in sales and maybe they want to go and

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<v Speaker 1>work in marketing, and they're kind of thinking like, do

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<v Speaker 1>I do that now or should I just say in

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<v Speaker 1>sales a bit longer and work my way out? So

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<v Speaker 1>Step maumble one is asking yourself, what am I trying

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<v Speaker 1>to get out of it? And why do I want

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<v Speaker 1>to have these chats? Step number two is to actually

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<v Speaker 1>build yourself a short list of people. So to do that,

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<v Speaker 1>you're going to be looking at, Okay, I'm trying to

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<v Speaker 1>pivot my career from sales to marketing. Let me maybe

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<v Speaker 1>try and find some people that have done that. So

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<v Speaker 1>you can first look at your internal network. There might

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<v Speaker 1>be people within your company that have done it. You

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<v Speaker 1>can then go and do a bunch of LinkedIn stalking.

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<v Speaker 1>So people have so much information about their careers. It's

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<v Speaker 1>actually so easy to find people who have done something

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<v Speaker 1>similar to what you're trying to do, and also just

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<v Speaker 1>ask you around. You want to try and land on

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<v Speaker 1>three to five people who have done something similar to

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<v Speaker 1>what you're trying to do. Now on too. Step three,

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<v Speaker 1>which is the very simple five line email that you

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<v Speaker 1>were going to send them, so I wouldn't normally read

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<v Speaker 1>out an email live, but because it's so simple, actually

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<v Speaker 1>just wanted to share that with you. Now, if you're

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<v Speaker 1>up for it, love it, let's go the five lines.

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<v Speaker 1>Line one is high person's name. I know you're busy

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<v Speaker 1>and you get a lot of emails. Part two, you're

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<v Speaker 1>going to start with them. This is very important. So

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<v Speaker 1>you want to show I have spent time researching you,

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<v Speaker 1>I know something about you, and you're going to start

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<v Speaker 1>with them. So an example of that might be I

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<v Speaker 1>admired the way you pivoted your career from X to Y.

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<v Speaker 1>Or it might be I've been following your career for

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<v Speaker 1>a while now and I love the way you talk

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<v Speaker 1>about topic X. Part three you're going to link to

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<v Speaker 1>you and why you actually want to have that conversation.

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<v Speaker 1>So an example might be the reason I'm interested in

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<v Speaker 1>this is because I'm all so trying to pivot my

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<v Speaker 1>career from sales to marketing, and you know, I'm currently

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<v Speaker 1>working in this role at this company and it would

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<v Speaker 1>really help me to understand your process. Line four. It

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<v Speaker 1>would have a huge impact on my career. If you're

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<v Speaker 1>able to give me twenty minutes on the phone or

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<v Speaker 1>zoom for a career chat so I can learn from

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<v Speaker 1>your experiences and five give them an out. So you say,

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<v Speaker 1>I know this is a long shot, and I understand

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<v Speaker 1>you might need to say no due to bandwidth. Even

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<v Speaker 1>getting a reply from you would make my day.

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<v Speaker 3>I love this so like it's making me feel warm

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<v Speaker 3>and fuzzy inside. It's making me feel warm and fuzzy

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<v Speaker 3>if I were to receive something like that, but it's

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<v Speaker 3>also making me feel like I want to challenge myself.

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<v Speaker 3>Now take your template and I want to report back

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<v Speaker 3>by our next episode with like an iconic founder that

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<v Speaker 3>I have used this template for to get to mentor

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<v Speaker 3>me Because I also think an important point is don't

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<v Speaker 3>cut yourself short with who you reach out to. Dream

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<v Speaker 3>big when you write that shortlist of people that you

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<v Speaker 3>want to hit up.

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<v Speaker 1>Even just a story from my own career. So actually,

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<v Speaker 1>one of the best mentor chats I've ever had is

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<v Speaker 1>with the CMO of Telstra, Brent Smart, and I was

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<v Speaker 1>having this amazing chat with him. I think it was

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<v Speaker 1>supposed to be an hour and I got an hour

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<v Speaker 1>and a half. And I mentioned in the chat that

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<v Speaker 1>one of my very junior reports at Google actually is

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<v Speaker 1>a big fan of his and had sent me his

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<v Speaker 1>podcast and Brent said, well, I'll have a mentorship chat

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<v Speaker 1>with him. I was thinking, like, there's no way even

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<v Speaker 1>do that. Anyway, my report emails brand and you know

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<v Speaker 1>the next week he's having a full hour with this

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<v Speaker 1>very senior marketing leader. He was very junior at the time,

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<v Speaker 1>So I think, yeah, exactly what you said, Michelle, don't

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<v Speaker 1>hold back, go for your dream list. And the trick

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<v Speaker 1>is just really keeping it very short, making it about them,

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<v Speaker 1>and explaining why you want to have this conversation, and

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<v Speaker 1>make it specific, and you will be so amazed at

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<v Speaker 1>who is actually going to say yes.

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<v Speaker 3>Last thing for me on this. I also love that

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<v Speaker 3>it wasn't can I take you out for a coffee,

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<v Speaker 3>because I do feel like their effort to go out

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<v Speaker 3>and meet someone can sometimes just be a hurdle that

0:12:12.490 --> 0:12:14.610
<v Speaker 3>you might not have capacity for. But to just jump

0:12:14.650 --> 0:12:17.010
<v Speaker 3>on a phone call or zoom is just making someone

0:12:17.050 --> 0:12:20.410
<v Speaker 3>else's life easier. So I love that guidance on that,

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<v Speaker 3>what are the do's and don'ts, what are the red flags?

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<v Speaker 3>What is not going to land you a date?

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<v Speaker 1>So I actually have a lot of people emailing me

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<v Speaker 1>to ask for mentorship, and so I just want to

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<v Speaker 1>share with you some of the things not to do.

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<v Speaker 1>So the first red flag for me is don't just

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<v Speaker 1>ask someone can I pick your brain? Don't say that

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<v Speaker 1>to them. You really need to show that you've invested

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<v Speaker 1>time in understanding who they are and why you're actually

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<v Speaker 1>having that conversation, so you want to make it specific.

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<v Speaker 1>That's where asking for twenty twenty five minutes on the

0:12:47.290 --> 0:12:49.530
<v Speaker 1>phone call or zoom is great. Don't just say can

0:12:49.570 --> 0:12:52.770
<v Speaker 1>I pick a brain. The other red flag is never

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<v Speaker 1>ask someone to be your mentor. The reason for that

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<v Speaker 1>is I just think like a good mentorship chat, it's

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<v Speaker 1>quite balanced, right, So, like mentors love talking about their

0:13:02.210 --> 0:13:05.250
<v Speaker 1>experience and how they can actually help young up and comers.

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<v Speaker 1>So asking someone to be your mentor, it just starts

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<v Speaker 1>the vibe off as being really weird, and it also

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<v Speaker 1>makes them feel like they're getting into this long term

0:13:13.290 --> 0:13:15.010
<v Speaker 1>relationship but maybe they don't want to be in.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, it's almost like asking someone to become your committed

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<v Speaker 3>like boyfriend or girlfriend before you've ever been on a

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<v Speaker 3>first date. You might not need the label. Maybe that's

0:13:24.610 --> 0:13:26.770
<v Speaker 3>one of the takeaways from this episode, you might not

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<v Speaker 3>even need that label on the relationship to have a mentor,

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<v Speaker 3>and I think that makes it less scary as well.

0:13:32.890 --> 0:13:35.690
<v Speaker 1>That is exactly it. You're just asking for a career chat,

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<v Speaker 1>you are not asking for them to be a mentor.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, love it? Okay, So what are the action points?

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<v Speaker 3>What do I need to do right now to get

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<v Speaker 3>a mentor?

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<v Speaker 1>So step one is to really ask yourself, why am

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<v Speaker 1>I actually doing this? What is the decision I'm trying

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<v Speaker 1>to make, or what am I trying to get better at?

0:13:50.650 --> 0:13:53.050
<v Speaker 1>What am I trying to figure out? Step two is

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<v Speaker 1>you want to get your short list of people, so

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<v Speaker 1>I think you can even set yourself a goal of like,

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<v Speaker 1>I want to do ten of these mentor chats in

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<v Speaker 1>the year, whatever it is for you. And then step

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<v Speaker 1>three is you want to have this email tenplate this

0:14:05.610 --> 0:14:07.890
<v Speaker 1>very short email template, and we have made it super

0:14:07.930 --> 0:14:10.929
<v Speaker 1>easy for you. So we've got it in the Biers newsletter.

0:14:11.010 --> 0:14:13.250
<v Speaker 1>All you have to do is jump into the show

0:14:13.290 --> 0:14:15.890
<v Speaker 1>notes and you can get the subscription link. Subscribe and

0:14:15.930 --> 0:14:17.610
<v Speaker 1>we'll send out that email template to you.

0:14:18.450 --> 0:14:26.570
<v Speaker 2>Finding out that eighty three percent of people don't have

0:14:26.610 --> 0:14:29.970
<v Speaker 2>a mentor has made me feel so much better about

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<v Speaker 2>not having one, and I actually don't even need to

0:14:32.130 --> 0:14:34.890
<v Speaker 2>feel bad about it. If you want that five sentence

0:14:34.930 --> 0:14:37.330
<v Speaker 2>email template that's going to help you land those dream

0:14:37.370 --> 0:14:40.690
<v Speaker 2>mental conversations, it's in our newsletter this week and it's

0:14:40.770 --> 0:14:43.090
<v Speaker 2>absolutely free to sign up. There's a link in our

0:14:43.130 --> 0:14:43.810
<v Speaker 2>show notes.

0:14:43.610 --> 0:14:44.290
<v Speaker 1>For you to do so.

0:14:44.970 --> 0:14:47.290
<v Speaker 2>Also, if you do end up getting a yes from

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<v Speaker 2>your mentor, which I mean of course you will because

0:14:49.410 --> 0:14:52.330
<v Speaker 2>this template is working for everyone, do not stress about

0:14:52.330 --> 0:14:54.610
<v Speaker 2>what to do next. We are going to cover exactly

0:14:54.650 --> 0:14:58.010
<v Speaker 2>how to nail those conversations in a future episode. And

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<v Speaker 2>don't forget our beiz Inbox episode drops sis Thursday, where

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<v Speaker 2>we answer all of your career dilemmas. Check the show

0:15:04.090 --> 0:15:06.450
<v Speaker 2>notes to find out how to submit your work questions.

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<v Speaker 2>See you next time. Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners

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<v Speaker 2>of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on