Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mama Maya acknowledges
Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast
Speaker 1: is recorded on.
Speaker 2: I think an hour before the release, we've got an
Speaker 2: email from the warholl Foundation saying, Hey, you can't do this,
Speaker 2: We'll sue you or whatever. A bit of a season
Speaker 2: to syst oh at White a little bit panicky. I
Speaker 2: was like, holish, a lot of shit.
Speaker 1: We have to pull it. Hi, I'm Kate Lane brook
Speaker 1: Welcome to No Filter.
Speaker 3: C J. Hendry is one of the most successful and
Speaker 3: sought after Australian artists working today. But she didn't go
Speaker 3: to art school. She wasn't discovered by a gallery. In fact,
Speaker 3: for a long time she wasn't even represented by a gallery,
Speaker 3: and she certainly didn't follow any kind of traditional path. Instead,
Speaker 3: she was a UNI dropout working retail who loved to draw.
Speaker 3: She sold her wardrobe on eBay, she bought herself some
Speaker 3: beautiful paper and pens and she started posting her drawings,
Speaker 3: her hyper realistic drawings online, and then Kanye West bought
Speaker 3: one of her pieces and that changed everything. CJ now
Speaker 3: lives in Brooklyn with her husband, who's also an Aussie
Speaker 3: and their three kids. She creates immersive art experiences that
Speaker 3: attract crowds around the world, and she's built a global
Speaker 3: business on her own terms without ever waiting for permission.
Speaker 3: In this conversation, CJ and I talk about how she
Speaker 3: got here, how she manages to create while raising a
Speaker 3: young family and while staying agile and making up her
Speaker 3: own rules. Is her secret source. She proves just that,
Speaker 3: by the way, when on the spur of the moment
Speaker 3: during our chat, CJ makes a major announcement that is
Speaker 3: going to send fans into a frenzy.
Speaker 1: Here is CJ Hendry.
Speaker 3: Katherine Katherine, who calls you CJ Hendry my.
Speaker 2: Mum sometimes but not. I don't know, no one really
Speaker 2: calls me Katherine so much. I had a rebrand in
Speaker 2: your five and I was I've been called since then, Yeah, Oh.
Speaker 1: Was it your idea or someone else's.
Speaker 2: I think it was mine because there was a girl
Speaker 2: at school who was a bit of a bully and
Speaker 2: she called me Kat and Kathy, and for some reason
Speaker 2: I didn't like that. I was like, we've got a rebrand.
Speaker 2: Let's rebrand to CJ. And it's kind of been like
Speaker 2: that ever since.
Speaker 3: And the rebrand has actually been brilliant for you? Is
Speaker 3: it because if you were, if you were Kath Hendry,
Speaker 3: I don't think your aunt would be the same.
Speaker 2: No, it's giving too feminine, you know, so I think, yeah, CJ.
Speaker 2: Could be.
Speaker 1: It's a little bit of a little bit of b
Speaker 1: Like a lot of people who.
Speaker 2: Might not even know who am or what I do
Speaker 2: still think I'm a boy and that's great.
Speaker 1: Why not?
Speaker 3: And it's like in the olden days when female writers
Speaker 3: would take just a couple of initials at the start,
Speaker 3: so people didn't know if they were male or female. Yeah,
Speaker 3: Miles Franklin not initially got none the least women.
Speaker 2: It's just it just kind of it's just a happy accident,
Speaker 2: you know, Like certainly wasn't planning to be in this
Speaker 2: position or be an artist.
Speaker 1: Way back in year five.
Speaker 2: I was just a little girl who didn't like to
Speaker 2: be called cat, you know, or cat.
Speaker 3: But so much of what you've done, by the way,
Speaker 3: c J. Hendry, welcome to No Filter. Thank you for
Speaker 3: having me, and we're very excited to have you. And
Speaker 3: I there are tentacles coming out from me of people
Speaker 3: that I know and that I love who are so
Speaker 3: beside themselves about you, but in your art, which has
Speaker 3: kind of really evolved quite rapidly. Really it feels sure,
Speaker 3: does it feel rapid to you?
Speaker 1: The unfolding of you?
Speaker 2: No, it doesn't be a rap it at all. I think.
Speaker 2: I guess I'm an artist. I'm an Instagram artist. I
Speaker 2: do lots of different things. Now what started is just
Speaker 2: drawing has now morphed into other things. But I think,
Speaker 2: as with anything, you need to evolve and grow. If
Speaker 2: I was still drawing in black and white on paper
Speaker 2: and still doing that, that is not that it gets
Speaker 2: very uninteresting very quickly, you know. So, I think in
Speaker 2: the speed at which social media works and the speed
Speaker 2: at which people's attentions last, you kind of have to
Speaker 2: evolve and morph and do new shit. And so I'm
Speaker 2: just kind of moving at the speed that it needs
Speaker 2: to be at this point. But yeah, I'm part artist, past,
Speaker 2: part business person, part whatever at this point.
Speaker 3: But you know how we were just saying CJ. Henry
Speaker 3: turned out to be great for you. There seems to
Speaker 3: be like fortune has favored the brave when it comes
Speaker 3: to you, because when you decided to start putting your
Speaker 3: stuff up, it was on Instagram pretty early. Instagram very early,
Speaker 3: very like I couldn't even tell you when, but certainly
Speaker 3: within the first year of it being open, yeah, yeah, right,
Speaker 3: And before that you'd been studying, so you were in
Speaker 3: this study cycle at qut.
Speaker 2: AQT did a bit of architecture. Wasn't very good at that.
Speaker 2: Then I shifted over and enrolled in accounting and finance at.
Speaker 1: UQ even more useless. I know, I was truly useless.
Speaker 1: You know how Like at UNI there's like an overall GPA.
Speaker 2: I think it's like one per seven, four as a
Speaker 2: pass and a seven as you're really smart. My overall
Speaker 2: GPO was a three point seventy five. So to give
Speaker 2: you a sense of like where I was on the
Speaker 2: past fail scandeight, my overall mark was a fail.
Speaker 3: So I just kind of lower in architecture or lower
Speaker 3: in when you went into the finance.
Speaker 1: It was all just low.
Speaker 2: I can't exactly tell you a numbers, it was just
Speaker 2: not It was around the past fail numbers, around four
Speaker 2: or just below. For some reason, I just university just
Speaker 2: never gelled for me. I can't quite make that work.
Speaker 2: I was relatively good at school, and then when it
Speaker 2: hit UNI. Maybe it was because I had I was
Speaker 2: able to work and make my own money and do
Speaker 2: my own thing. I was like, university is just a
Speaker 2: hindrance in me being able to go and work at
Speaker 2: a bar. You know, I love working. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: When you in that sort of cycle trying to be.
Speaker 3: A student, were you drawing? Mean, like, when did you
Speaker 3: start drawing? Or have you always drawn?
Speaker 2: Loosely drawn? I wasn't wouldn't say I was exceptional. Like
Speaker 2: I said, I was just a good student at school.
Speaker 2: I think I did the amount of art that everyone
Speaker 2: does at school. You have to do English, you have
Speaker 2: to do science. Most people do are like you know,
Speaker 2: So I was good, but not a standout, And I
Speaker 2: think what I enjoyed more than anything. And then when
Speaker 2: I was at UNI, you know, I was just doing UNI,
Speaker 2: you know, UNI and working. But what it always stuck
Speaker 2: with me with drawing. I wasn't even particularly good at that.
Speaker 2: I was okay, but I'm not certainly where I'm at
Speaker 2: now in terms of skill level. But what always stuck
Speaker 2: with me with drawing, and still to this day, is
Speaker 2: just how drawing made me feel. I'm not particularly woo woo,
Speaker 2: but I just really enjoy being able to sit in
Speaker 2: my own thought and it's almost like a form of meditation.
Speaker 2: Just sit and draw, sure and just zone out, watch
Speaker 2: some Netflix, have a podcast on, listen to audiobooks, you know,
Speaker 2: and it's just as a lovely time just I could
Speaker 2: spend hours on my own just drawing, and I was
Speaker 2: just just I always felt very calm doing that.
Speaker 3: The moment when you decided, okay, UNI's not for you
Speaker 3: and you're not for UNI, and you said to your parents,
Speaker 3: hard working South Africans, you're absolutely right, yep, come to
Speaker 3: Australia and you said, I'm going to take a year
Speaker 3: off and I'm going to draw.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: That how was that conversation?
Speaker 2: It was as as you would expect. Mum and dad,
Speaker 2: just to be clear, the most beautiful, supportive parents. They
Speaker 2: are very hard working, so I think this was just
Speaker 2: a bit of a rogue thing to do. You know.
Speaker 2: They didn't say no, but they certainly weren't like, great,
Speaker 2: how can we you know, let's step in and help.
Speaker 2: I think they were just like, this is what you
Speaker 2: need to do, go for it. I was still living
Speaker 2: at home in the basement with mom and dad, so
Speaker 2: fortunately they never kicked me out, so it couldn't have
Speaker 2: gone that badly, right, certainly, so they were still happy
Speaker 2: to have me at home, but it was it's just
Speaker 2: a weird thing to say, I just want to draw.
Speaker 2: And they knew I enjoyed drawing, they knew I was
Speaker 2: okay at it. But I think Mum was just like, well, artists,
Speaker 2: how are you going to support yourself? Like that just
Speaker 2: doesn't work? And I said, I don't care. That's just
Speaker 2: not my focus. I just want to draw because I
Speaker 2: enjoy it. You know, UNI's not going particularly well working
Speaker 2: at a bar, you know, like who gives a shit?
Speaker 2: So then I kind of sold at that point in time,
Speaker 2: I sold my whole wardrobe on eBay. This is when
Speaker 2: eBay was really cool, and I saw my wardrobe and
Speaker 2: either so I had a little bit of money so
Speaker 2: I could buy all my materials.
Speaker 3: And yeah, because you'd also had a taste for luxury
Speaker 3: goods before then, Yeah, so you had some high stuff.
Speaker 2: I had champagne taste and beer money. So I would
Speaker 2: save up all my money and I would go and
Speaker 2: buy fancy things. And where was I going Nowhere? But
Speaker 2: I just like to have nice things, you know, like that.
Speaker 2: You know, I wasn't out all the time. I just
Speaker 2: just enjoyed nice shoes and bags and clothes for no
Speaker 2: reason other than I just like to have it. And yeah,
Speaker 2: i'd just work at a bar, save up all my
Speaker 2: money from tips and whatever else, and I'd just go
Speaker 2: buy beautiful things. And then that led to me getting
Speaker 2: a job at Chanel, which was in Brisbane, which was amazing.
Speaker 2: I learned so much from that. And this was just
Speaker 2: me selling handbags. I wasn't doing anything particularly life threatening there.
Speaker 1: It's hard to get a job at Chanel, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean I think so, But somehow I talked my
Speaker 2: way in and they said yes, and I said, I said, great,
Speaker 2: when did we start? So I spent a couple of
Speaker 2: years there and learn a lot just about just luxury
Speaker 2: and the selling of luxury. And in all honesty, the
Speaker 2: brand sold itself so we didn't have to do a
Speaker 2: whole b just had I just had to have chat
Speaker 2: really and yeah, I had a grand all time there.
Speaker 2: And that's when I was kind of doing Yuni. I'm
Speaker 2: trying to piece it all together. Yeah, just I was
Speaker 2: just like, I just don't think this is the direction
Speaker 2: my life has meant to go. You know, Yuni is
Speaker 2: not going well. I don't think I want to work
Speaker 2: in retail forever. Let me just try my hand at drawing.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's when I kind of sold my wardrobe
Speaker 2: and said, all right, I've got enough. I've got enough
Speaker 2: leg room to kind of go through for the next
Speaker 2: year and just draw. And that's what I did.
Speaker 1: You went and bought with your wardrobe money.
Speaker 3: You went and brought a whole lot of pencils and
Speaker 3: paper stock instead draw.
Speaker 2: Yep, So I went and bought beautiful paper and pens.
Speaker 2: I think the thing that I always wanted I didn't
Speaker 2: want the quality of my materials to be not great.
Speaker 2: I've always liked to do things as well as I can,
Speaker 2: or close to perfect. Even from the start, I was like,
Speaker 2: I just want this beautiful cotton paper. I want these
Speaker 2: like Japanese pens. And also framing was really expensive. Framing
Speaker 2: was certainly the more expensive part of this whole thing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I was just going to draw. The plan was
Speaker 2: to just do five drawings, put them in a folio
Speaker 2: and take them to galleries around Brisbane and the hope
Speaker 2: that they might be interested enough to sign me or
Speaker 2: represent me or.
Speaker 1: Something like that.
Speaker 2: And then in the means, you know, I was like,
Speaker 2: that might take a couple of months, let's let's work
Speaker 2: toward that. And then in that time, that's when social
Speaker 2: media was kind of happening. I think my sister was like, oh,
Speaker 2: let's just take a photo and post it. I said, okay,
Speaker 2: and then yeah, one thing led to another, and I mean,
Speaker 2: it's all funny to talk about so like Instagram way
Speaker 2: back then, but it isn't.
Speaker 1: It was funny back then, you know.
Speaker 2: You just kind of post and the goal was still, well,
Speaker 2: I'm going to go to a gallery because that's what
Speaker 2: you do as an artist. Never was I like I'm
Speaker 2: going to be a hack on Instagram. I'm like, that
Speaker 2: was not That was certainly not the plan, and it's
Speaker 2: still not the plan. But I'm still here, I guess,
Speaker 2: And also.
Speaker 1: Like, really, what is the plan?
Speaker 3: Because everything in retrospect seems like it's a plan, but
Speaker 3: when you're doing it, it's often just instinct or what
Speaker 3: you feel like doing.
Speaker 2: And I think it's still instincts, Like very rarely are
Speaker 2: we working with like a hardcore plant with anything, you know,
Speaker 2: like we'll be building exhibitions. I certainly know where I'm
Speaker 2: at now and where I hope to be, you know,
Speaker 2: I just like to create things and build exhibitions and
Speaker 2: draw whatever that might look like, and just to create
Speaker 2: things as often as I can and kind of create
Speaker 2: alternate realities for people to experience, you know, and we're
Speaker 2: just having a whole lot of fun doing it. The
Speaker 2: team's amazing. I've worked with a beautiful team who helped
Speaker 2: me execute these ideas.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Everyone works really really hard, harder than me, you know.
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's just being able to build these super
Speaker 2: creative things and put them into reality and for people
Speaker 2: to come and experience them.
Speaker 1: Is the plan this? You know, Well, that's the execution
Speaker 1: of the plan, I guess.
Speaker 3: But if you go back to that moment that must
Speaker 3: have been it must have had some significance for you.
Speaker 3: Was it the rim Williams boots that you were the
Speaker 3: first thing you sold?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: That you might be exactly right, right? And how was
Speaker 1: that moment that.
Speaker 2: Was game changing? Because they it wasn't an insignificant amo
Speaker 2: amount of money. It was like ten thousand dollars, which
Speaker 2: is insane. I was like, I even kind of cold around,
Speaker 2: So I was like, are you sure? You know, because
Speaker 2: I wasn't sure that they wanted it, And then that
Speaker 2: it kind of gives you the confidence at that point
Speaker 2: to say, gosh, this could be something. And I always
Speaker 2: try to encourage people who are looking at ur you know,
Speaker 2: or wanting to buy art. I'm like, always support artists
Speaker 2: who are starting out. Don't buy my art, Heaven's sake,
Speaker 2: who gives a shit about me? Go and support artists
Speaker 2: who are just starting out because it can really change
Speaker 2: the course of their whole life. And I know this
Speaker 2: particular family who bought these rm will into boots like
Speaker 2: truly changed my life because it was I was able
Speaker 2: to use that money to continue to draw and get
Speaker 2: things from and you know, not have to go and
Speaker 2: get a job for another six months, because ten thousand
Speaker 2: dollars goes such a long way, you know.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's really important.
Speaker 3: Very unusual, I think for any emerging artist as you
Speaker 3: were then, probably didn't even really define yourself maybe as
Speaker 3: an artist then.
Speaker 2: No, just someone who liked to draw.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, just for someone to sell their first work
Speaker 3: for ten grand is quite incredible.
Speaker 2: It is. But I was looking at it quite logically.
Speaker 2: I was like, well, it took me x amount of hours.
Speaker 2: If I'm going on a twenty five dollars an hour rate,
Speaker 2: that works out. It was probably like three hundred. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that was more than.
Speaker 1: The shell rate.
Speaker 2: So I thought I might up a little bit. I thought,
Speaker 2: look at me. Yes, I was like, twenty five seems fair.
Speaker 2: And I was like, I think I rounded out to
Speaker 2: like nine thousand and three. I was like, look rounded
Speaker 2: up to ten. That's just my time, you know. And
Speaker 2: they seem to like it. Yeah, but yeah, it was.
Speaker 2: It did change the course of everything because I was
Speaker 2: able to continue to draw. And then I think someone
Speaker 2: else reached out and said I'd like to buy something
Speaker 2: or commission something, and that's kind of how it.
Speaker 1: Started, you know.
Speaker 2: I I was able to make a little bit of money.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that was like twenty fourteen. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Had you met Lewis then? Who is now your husband?
Speaker 3: So we started officially dating on eleven, twelve thirteen, so yes,
Speaker 3: I had yeah. Yeah, So we met just as I
Speaker 3: was like loosely starting to draw. He was studying engineering
Speaker 3: at UQ. He's very smart. He got his degree.
Speaker 1: I didn't. Yeah, so I think we've just started dating.
Speaker 1: Gpa what was his GPM? It's high, you say, he
Speaker 1: always downplaying and I was very high. Yeah. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: then how did you two meet?
Speaker 2: We met at the Strategy Day races playing Spin the Bottle. Yeah,
Speaker 2: just I was out and he was out and someone
Speaker 2: dad spit the battle with an after party, and then
Speaker 2: I got back's house. Literally, I could tell you exactly
Speaker 2: where it was. Yeah, it was so funny. And then
Speaker 2: that's kind of happened, and then we just loosely started
Speaker 2: hanging out, and yeah, I think he wanted Yeah, do you.
Speaker 3: Think people know all know spin the bottle, which is
Speaker 3: an old It's Australian, isn't it.
Speaker 1: It's an Australian Spin the bottle in the.
Speaker 3: Bottle and then when the bottle, both ends of the
Speaker 3: bottle points to two people obviously, and then those people
Speaker 3: have to kiss.
Speaker 1: That's exactly how it happened. And then here we are. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but at that point he was your boyfriend.
Speaker 3: You like drawing, You're selling a couple of things.
Speaker 1: He's going to be an engineer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was. He wanted to go somewhere else to work,
Speaker 2: and he was toying up between Hong Kong and New York,
Speaker 2: and he landed on New York and I was like,
Speaker 2: you know what, I'd like to come because I want
Speaker 2: to continue, you know, like the art was kind of happening.
Speaker 2: I must say, this time I had signed, I'd started
Speaker 2: to talk to Bill Tikos, who ran The Cool Hunter.
Speaker 2: He was a very instrumental person in developing and growing
Speaker 2: my career in the early days. I don't think i'd
Speaker 2: be here certainly without him. I could definitely give credit
Speaker 2: to a lot of people throughout the years, but he
Speaker 2: was instrumental in those early days. He was so confident
Speaker 2: and so brazen about selling art. He's like, who gives
Speaker 2: a shit that you're sell on Instagram, Let's just go
Speaker 2: for it. And I was like, oh, heavens, you know.
Speaker 2: So he took care of the sale side of things,
Speaker 2: and yeah, heavens, he took care of the sale side
Speaker 2: of things, and then I was just able to draw.
Speaker 2: So it was a beautiful relationship for many years. And
Speaker 2: yeah that it just allowed me to just draw every
Speaker 2: day and he handled everything else, which was great.
Speaker 1: So it was around that time that I signed with him.
Speaker 3: But you're also obviously, I mean, I think it's a
Speaker 3: hallmark of kind of the way he lives that you're like, well,
Speaker 3: I'm going into this area where there are no rules,
Speaker 3: so I'm just gonna follow my nose.
Speaker 2: That's a great point, kay, because art, in my opinions
Speaker 2: still to this day, is the last unregulated industry. Finance was,
Speaker 2: now it's not, and art is completely unregulated. There's no rules,
Speaker 2: there's no right or wrongs. It's subjective. People love it,
Speaker 2: people hate it. Why is something valued at ten million dollars?
Speaker 2: Why is something? Like? Why is something valued at ten dollars?
Speaker 2: You know? Like it's why? Like it's so arbitrary, And
Speaker 2: that's what I find really fascinating. It's all perceived value.
Speaker 2: It's it's storytelling, it's everything. It's commerce and creative mixed
Speaker 2: up in one. And it's a beautiful it can be
Speaker 2: a beautiful combination. I mean, if you're a commercial artist
Speaker 2: like I am, if you're just somebody wants to make
Speaker 2: you know art and sell it on Etsy, Yeah, that's
Speaker 2: a different type of artist, but it's still an artist.
Speaker 2: You know. Just because you're making money doesn't mean you're
Speaker 2: any better. Certainly doesn't mean you're any better than someone
Speaker 2: making art, you know.
Speaker 3: But it's I find it interesting that you say it's
Speaker 3: unregulated because you've kind of made it unregulated, because I
Speaker 3: think before you it wasn't it was so or maybe
Speaker 3: that's my perception from the outside that it's got a
Speaker 3: very elitist overtone, and a lot.
Speaker 1: Of it has to be what does this work mean?
Speaker 3: And normal people are staring at things like boggle eyed
Speaker 3: and it kind of made to feel a bit lesser
Speaker 3: if they don't understand the motivation of the artist.
Speaker 1: Now, you changed a lot of that.
Speaker 3: Through just doing your art and letting people appreciate it
Speaker 3: for what it was.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's very kind of you to say, and I
Speaker 2: guess there is an element of that. But by no
Speaker 2: means was I going out there to be like, look
Speaker 2: at me, I'm going to change some shit. No, I
Speaker 2: was just making my art and one thing led to another.
Speaker 2: Series of unfortunate events have led me here. But no, was.
Speaker 2: It just is what it is. And I think to
Speaker 2: your point of art being very elitist, it is still
Speaker 2: at the very highest level. It is still. But what
Speaker 2: is happening which is really interesting at the very highest
Speaker 2: levels from I'm talking two hundred thousand and above into
Speaker 2: the millions, art's not moving like they're not moving the
Speaker 2: amount of infantry that they once did, because those those
Speaker 2: were a different subset of people. You know, like much
Speaker 2: you know boomers, now, who are you know, looking to,
Speaker 2: you know, slow down their spending or whatever it might be.
Speaker 2: And now there's a whole lot of younger kid who
Speaker 2: are coming in with either their parents' money or their
Speaker 2: own money, self made, who are not interested in buying
Speaker 2: Pocassa's for ten million. They're like, that's not very interesting.
Speaker 2: I can't meet Pokassa. He's a dead guy, you know.
Speaker 2: So I think they are looking to kind of invest
Speaker 2: in artists who are slightly younger, who are highly contemporary artists.
Speaker 2: And I'm not just talking about myself. There's a whole
Speaker 2: lot of people, you know, my peers, who are doing
Speaker 2: it as well. I'm certainly not the only one. And
Speaker 2: there's everyone's doing a great job. And we're young. We're
Speaker 2: like moving at a rapid rate, and it's interesting to watch,
Speaker 2: you know. And I think people enjoy that. I mean,
Speaker 2: I certainly enjoy it. You know, not everyone loves it.
Speaker 2: I'm not looking for worldwide acceptance, but yeah, we're kind
Speaker 2: of slowly just taking down the elitist nature of it.
Speaker 3: It's like democratized art and throwing the doors open.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think I certainly will build exhibitions and
Speaker 2: there's no basis on a wall when you enter. You know,
Speaker 2: there's often big, big things you have to read about
Speaker 2: what someone's feeling with convoluted words that even I don't know,
Speaker 2: and I'm not very I wouldn't even know how to
Speaker 2: put that together. I'd have to use AI to write it.
Speaker 2: And that just is no interest to me, because then
Speaker 2: you're forcing people to feel a certain way when they
Speaker 2: walk in. I just want people to walk in with
Speaker 2: any age, any background, and you just walk in. You
Speaker 2: might love it, you might hate it, but you're going
Speaker 2: to feel something when you walk in because you have
Speaker 2: to experience. I think whatever that might be. It might
Speaker 2: be a bounce house, it might be this big inflatable
Speaker 2: climbing things. It might be a church with pedals in London. Like,
Speaker 2: there's so many different things we've done over the years,
Speaker 2: and they're all different, they're all a bit outlandish, and
Speaker 2: people are certainly going to feel something, you know, but
Speaker 2: I don't expect you to feel what I feel.
Speaker 3: Coming up after this short breather, CJ explains how she
Speaker 3: and her art got discovered by some pretty major power players.
Speaker 3: When she followed Lewis to New York.
Speaker 1: He had no say in it.
Speaker 3: I'm curious about the moment when you said to Lewis,
Speaker 3: I'm going to come to New York with you? Do
Speaker 3: you want me to come to New York with you?
Speaker 3: Or was that alike I'm coming to moment?
Speaker 1: Oh where you.
Speaker 2: Were at It was definitely I'm coming to please can
Speaker 2: I come? And like, I know, I was like, look,
Speaker 2: we're only freshly dating, but like, just let's not plan
Speaker 2: too far ahead. I'm a big believer and don't plan
Speaker 2: too far ahead because life happens and then your plan
Speaker 2: has to change. And if you're too focused on, you know,
Speaker 2: on your exact plan, then you're not going to see
Speaker 2: the opportunity that they present itself. So I said, look,
Speaker 2: we're just dating. Let's just go. If it doesn't work out,
Speaker 2: it doesn't work out, let's you know, but let's just
Speaker 2: go as just a little, you know, just lovers. Let's
Speaker 2: go as lovers. We went as lovers. We rented an
Speaker 2: apartment together. He started his business. I was doing my thing,
Speaker 2: you know, we just I've always been kind of doing
Speaker 2: our own thing, which has been great. And then one
Speaker 2: thing led to another. We couldn't afford our apartment anymore.
Speaker 2: In Tribeca because I was working from home there drawing
Speaker 2: and he would go to work and we couldn't we
Speaker 2: needed more space. We couldn't afford to be in Manhattan,
Speaker 2: so we got pushed out to Brooklyn to Greenpoint, where
Speaker 2: we rented a big warehouse we could afford. And we've
Speaker 2: been a green Point ever since. And now green Point's
Speaker 2: really cool, but it wasn't cool way back then. It
Speaker 2: was a bit shit. And then we've been to Brooklyn
Speaker 2: ever since. And we got married. We took our families
Speaker 2: to lunch and we just eloped to the Brisbane City Hall.
Speaker 2: And then we've got three kids are a four or
Speaker 2: three and a six months old.
Speaker 1: So it's been busy. It's been a busy couple of years.
Speaker 1: And you seem pretty happy.
Speaker 2: Happy happy as a happy is a sliding scale. I
Speaker 2: think there's some days that make me happier than others,
Speaker 2: but I think over the course of many years, I'm
Speaker 2: like just trying to just coast along. There's always stress
Speaker 2: and pressure, whether it be financially. Kids are a whole
Speaker 2: different level of stress.
Speaker 1: As you know.
Speaker 2: Any parent can attest to, you know, and any parent
Speaker 2: who's working and also has kids, you know, even if
Speaker 2: you don't have kids. Just life is stressful in different ways.
Speaker 2: So I always try to look on the more optimistic
Speaker 2: side because nothing's going to go according to plan. You're
Speaker 2: never going to be skinny enough or rich enough, so
Speaker 2: I may as well just get into it. He must
Speaker 2: like you and I like him. It's a two way street. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's a two way street. Well, I'm very lucky. I
Speaker 2: think we're a good little We're just good mates, you know,
Speaker 2: like we have a laugh, we don't take anything too seriously. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he's he's a good two busy Bogans. You know, it
Speaker 2: was meant to be.
Speaker 3: To work at your level, you need to outsource part
Speaker 3: of the child.
Speaker 1: All of that. At what point do you and Lewis
Speaker 1: go are we?
Speaker 3: How do we find that balance of how much you
Speaker 3: outsource with three little kids.
Speaker 2: I'll speak for myself, but I know just talking to
Speaker 2: my other mum friends, it's always going to be the
Speaker 2: biggest sense of guilt and not knowing what the right
Speaker 2: answer is. I mean, you've got four kids. I'm sure
Speaker 2: there were most, you know, Like, it's just I'm fortunate
Speaker 2: that when I've had my babies, my mum's come over
Speaker 2: from Oz to help out. So for the first four months,
Speaker 2: she'll be there five months helping out. She's coming over
Speaker 2: again for the so my holidays to look after the
Speaker 2: big kids. We're fortunate enough to have a nanny who
Speaker 2: helps with the baby while we're at work. It's just
Speaker 2: a it's a trade off, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: I know on a Saturday and Sunday, I'm fucking miserable.
Speaker 2: Lewis and I are about to divorce each other on a
Speaker 2: Sunday afternoon when we've had the kids for two days.
Speaker 2: So I'm like, well, that's not that's not that's not
Speaker 2: the answer. Full time mumming for me is not the answer.
Speaker 2: But what we've found is a beautiful balance of going
Speaker 2: to work and I pick up Kenny from daycare at
Speaker 2: three thirty, so my in the studio times from nine
Speaker 2: till about three. And would I like to work a
Speaker 2: little bit more, yes, but this is just the time
Speaker 2: in our lives, you know. And no, I'm not with
Speaker 2: the kids all day, but I love going to work.
Speaker 2: It's kind of great because then from you know, like
Speaker 2: three thirty till when they go down to bed, which
Speaker 2: is never early enough. Yeah, we're just smucking around and
Speaker 2: having great time. So but I don't think we've got
Speaker 2: the right formul I don't think any parents got the
Speaker 2: right format. Everyone's just piecing it together, honestly, and summer
Speaker 2: week we're not. We haven't got a better formula than
Speaker 2: anyone else. It's fucking hard, and it's fucking childcare is
Speaker 2: fucking expensive.
Speaker 3: What was your first significant project that came about once
Speaker 3: you'd moved to New York, Because this all seemed to
Speaker 3: happen quite rapidly from you leaving Australia.
Speaker 2: It did once again, I was working with the cool
Speaker 2: hunter so Bill Tikos. We did an exhibition in Soho
Speaker 2: called the Trophy Room, and then that was the one
Speaker 2: I did with him. After that exhibition, I kind of
Speaker 2: branched out and started to do my own thing. So
Speaker 2: I can't even tell you the dates. I could have
Speaker 2: been twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen. From there, I kind of
Speaker 2: was free falling a little bit because I had always
Speaker 2: done my own I had always just done the drawings
Speaker 2: and Bell took care of, you know, like looking after
Speaker 2: everything else. I then was like, holy shit, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck,
Speaker 2: what do I do? I need to do this on
Speaker 2: my own now and so yeah, kind of I'm trying
Speaker 2: to think how that played out. I think when you're
Speaker 2: thrown into the deep and you just kind of figure
Speaker 2: it out. That's where Lewis really helped step in. I
Speaker 2: was like, I don't know how to do that stuff.
Speaker 2: Please help. He's like, we'll figure it out. And so
Speaker 2: we then learned how to sell things. That's when we
Speaker 2: just started like a Shopify account and we'd sell art
Speaker 2: just on Shopify like what you know, like these meant
Speaker 2: for like you're meant to sell undias and t shirts
Speaker 2: like you know, you're not meant to sell tens of thousands,
Speaker 2: you know, and so we're like, well, how else do
Speaker 2: we sell it? So that's kind of yeah, we had
Speaker 2: an exhibition like let's just start a Shopify account. And
Speaker 2: that's how it's always been, you know, like it's not
Speaker 2: super complicated.
Speaker 3: And so once again a maverick outside of the gallery
Speaker 3: system because galleries, when they get hold of artists, I
Speaker 3: mean they can also of course do amazing things for
Speaker 3: artists yep, and bring their art to a lot of people,
Speaker 3: but they also take a giant chunk of change often
Speaker 3: that artists can't afford to be hated.
Speaker 2: Well, I think it depends on the type of artist
Speaker 2: you are, right, So I'm very realist in the fact,
Speaker 2: like I am a commercial artist. I am fortunate to
Speaker 2: make money from I reinvest almost all of it back
Speaker 2: into my practice. So that's kind of how I see it,
Speaker 2: Like it's it is a business. I run it like
Speaker 2: a startup. That's a speed at which we work, you know.
Speaker 2: So yeah, but there's some artists who just have no
Speaker 2: interest in that. They're like, I just know how to create.
Speaker 2: I don't want to schmooz and wheel and deal. I
Speaker 2: don't want to do all that stuff. So for them,
Speaker 2: the gallery will really work well. So it just really
Speaker 2: you just got to figure out what's going to work
Speaker 2: best for you.
Speaker 1: And for you, Shopify was Shopify. What's not worked for you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Shopify was there, And also Lewis was like, hey,
Speaker 2: just shop Pilet's go. I'm like all right, you know,
Speaker 2: so I was fortunate that he was more techy than
Speaker 2: I am. I'm, you know, still just more creative. He's
Speaker 2: more logical. Yeah, so that's kind of how I started.
Speaker 2: And yeah, but galeries certainly have their place. I can't
Speaker 2: discount them. I'll be working with a gallery next year
Speaker 2: on an exhibition. But it's it's a it's a megaga,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like these are galleries that
Speaker 2: are just mega that it's not a quote unquote normal gallery.
Speaker 2: You know. So this is like the big it's the
Speaker 2: big leagues, you know. It's just there's so many different
Speaker 2: ways to be an artist, just just it doesn't look
Speaker 2: the same for everyone.
Speaker 3: But speaking of big leagues, then a couple of seminal
Speaker 3: things happened, and one of the us was Kanye and
Speaker 3: it was him on a on a dollar bill, on
Speaker 3: a dollar bill with his face. I just want to
Speaker 3: purpose this by saying this one Kanye was at as
Speaker 3: prime ten years ago.
Speaker 1: This is not the current Kanye. This is not Kanne
Speaker 1: ten years ago.
Speaker 2: And Kanye was back then just truly like he was
Speaker 2: an inspiration for me as a creative, and he was
Speaker 2: an inspiration to a lot of people. So I just
Speaker 2: need to say that because he really was quite something.
Speaker 3: When people look through the prism of the present at
Speaker 3: the past, it looks very differently, it does, doesn't.
Speaker 1: It was, Yeah, he was revolutionary. He was such a broad.
Speaker 2: Artist, he was and he was just so creative and
Speaker 2: so bold and I took a lot of inspiration from him,
Speaker 2: and you know, it just so much of what he
Speaker 2: did was so different and it was just.
Speaker 1: Beautiful to watch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I put him on a dollar bill and
Speaker 2: for somehow he's found out about it and I was
Speaker 2: able to you know, he bought it from me way
Speaker 2: back then.
Speaker 3: And yeah, you know, but how does Kanye Wete buy
Speaker 3: my something from C J Henry?
Speaker 1: Do you know what it was?
Speaker 2: There was a I couldn't remember all the names. It
Speaker 2: was Kim, so Kim and Kanye like they just had
Speaker 2: now anyway I could go into the hole inner work.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 2: It was through social media. It was through social media.
Speaker 2: It was someone who was working with Kim. We still
Speaker 2: chat whether they still work together or not. I think
Speaker 2: she's the CFO or CEO of Skims. She was also
Speaker 2: working closely with Kanye. And one thing, you know, she
Speaker 2: was a fan of Cool Hunter. She found out about
Speaker 2: it that way and then kind of showed it to him,
Speaker 2: and I think that's how it happened. Yeah, but the
Speaker 2: Internet you never really know, you never really know how
Speaker 2: should happened. It's a beautiful place and nothing's linear. There's
Speaker 2: no like clean lines as to how people know, we'll
Speaker 2: find out or hear about things anymore, you know.
Speaker 3: But even so, there was a face to face when
Speaker 3: you hand it over the artwork.
Speaker 2: Yes, and he was shorter than I thought, and he
Speaker 2: was so kind and he gave me. He was very intentional.
Speaker 2: He was very softly spoken. And this was five minutes
Speaker 2: before he was about to go out and perform. And
Speaker 2: it was like he had his little possy there where
Speaker 2: did you do the transaction? This is in the Brisbane
Speaker 2: I don't know where were you performed in Brisbane?
Speaker 3: Like the yeah about Bood, Yeah, the entertainment center.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was you know. So then he had his
Speaker 2: posse there with there was like five other guys in
Speaker 2: the room and Kanye and there was like snacks.
Speaker 1: He's like, do you want a snack?
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't remember exactly that what I said,
Speaker 2: but yeah, it was just like I was just so.
Speaker 1: Sort of snacks? Does Kanye wears? I can't remember yet.
Speaker 2: And I remember there being orange juice and water, I
Speaker 2: remember that, I remember. Yeah, And then I was sitting
Speaker 2: in the while I sitting in the corridor waiting to go,
Speaker 2: and Kim walked past.
Speaker 1: I was like, I just waited so casual. I was like, wow, yeah,
Speaker 1: so but that was years ago.
Speaker 2: But I'll be honest, I'm not I'm not a celebrity hunter,
Speaker 2: nor does that interest me, nor is that a big
Speaker 2: deal to me.
Speaker 1: It's just a thing that happened.
Speaker 2: And you know, like there's so many other people who
Speaker 2: have bought my art that it's just not that interesting
Speaker 2: to talk about.
Speaker 1: You know, Like, however, you know what it is.
Speaker 3: It's this validation because he was an artist and he
Speaker 3: was a collector of great art.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was at the beginning of my career, and
Speaker 2: I think there was an l and of this is
Speaker 2: where Bill was so great. He was such a brilliant marketer,
Speaker 2: and he was like, this is just great publicity. We
Speaker 2: have to get that, like people need to know about this.
Speaker 2: And I think that was really smart from his end.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have done anything about it, but you know,
Speaker 2: he was able to kind of I think place that
Speaker 2: in particular, press things that that happened, and so that's
Speaker 2: kind of how it all played up.
Speaker 3: It's one thing to say you don't need or require
Speaker 3: the external validation, and in fact, probably to do anything
Speaker 3: that anyone does, you have to have the most important
Speaker 3: vision that you have is your own. Yeah, but nonetheless
Speaker 3: it's so nice to have that validation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially so early on, you know, when you are
Speaker 2: double second guessing yourself and you're not too sure, and
Speaker 2: just for someone of that caliber to have a piece
Speaker 2: was really special, you know. So yeah, it's certainly catapult
Speaker 2: and certainly changed a few things. But I don't know
Speaker 2: there's something that happened. But I mean, at the end
Speaker 2: of the day, the cele ready buys your art. You
Speaker 2: haven't made it, you know, like by no means was
Speaker 2: like cool, I'm done here and get concent like, you know,
Speaker 2: you're still got to do the work. So it's like
Speaker 2: whilst good things happen, and if any good things happened,
Speaker 2: I don't spend much time like walling around thinking about it,
Speaker 2: like you're still going to go to work the next day.
Speaker 1: Interesting, you know.
Speaker 3: I also I think you seem like that when bad
Speaker 3: things happen as well, Yeah, because I'm thinking about the
Speaker 3: bad things of like the copyright infringing, yeah, and that
Speaker 3: whole series, and.
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, so copyright infringe it was another really
Speaker 2: interesting thing that happened. I had done drawings of Andy
Speaker 2: Warhol's poloids and I'd crumpled them up and draw on
Speaker 2: them and put them on T shirts. And we were
Speaker 2: going to do a release online of the T shirts
Speaker 2: on our little dinky shopper by account and a couple
Speaker 2: I think an hour before the release, we got an
Speaker 2: email from the Warhole Foundation saying, hey, you can't do this,
Speaker 2: We'll sue you or whatever. You know, a bit of
Speaker 2: a season desistent at that time, I'd never had anything.
Speaker 2: I was like panicking white, a little bit panicky. I
Speaker 2: was like, holy shit, hold of shit, we have to
Speaker 2: pull it now. I would have gone ahead with the
Speaker 2: relies and not even cared, but back then I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh shit. So we didn't do the release, and then
Speaker 2: we had all these T shirts and I was like,
Speaker 2: I don't want to throw them away.
Speaker 1: But part of.
Speaker 2: The seasoned list was like you have to destroy the inventory.
Speaker 2: I was like, well, can't we just like dispose of
Speaker 2: them in a more creative way. So we boxed them
Speaker 2: up and read boxes and dropped them around the city
Speaker 2: and posted the locations on social media. I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: they're going to end up in New York City trash
Speaker 2: because like, they don't fuck around the trash in New York,
Speaker 2: like they'll just pick it up and keep going. But yeah,
Speaker 2: and then it turned into this thing, you.
Speaker 3: Know, yes, a brilliant a brilliant thing, like a worldwide
Speaker 3: scavenger hunt.
Speaker 2: But like that, to me, we weren't going out to
Speaker 2: do that. It was just like, how do you just
Speaker 2: do something? I think I'm relatively creative and relatively bullish,
Speaker 2: so you know, if you put those two things together,
Speaker 2: I have little to no issue. You know. Yes, I
Speaker 2: was nervous about the lawsuit, but I was like, let's
Speaker 2: just dispose of them in a fun way. Like there
Speaker 2: was no rule saying you can't be creative with disposal.
Speaker 2: So I was like, Paul, no, let's do that.
Speaker 1: That's not all to our chat.
Speaker 3: Coming up, I get to surprise Cej with a story
Speaker 3: about a young fan of hers and it inspires her
Speaker 3: to make a very special announcement that you are not
Speaker 3: going to want to miss. I'm going to share something
Speaker 3: with you now, Okay, A bit of feedback from a
Speaker 3: girlfriend of mine, one of her really good friends. And
Speaker 3: so we were living in Italy in twenty nineteen, and
Speaker 3: I remember back here in Australia, friends of ours were
Speaker 3: saying that you were there.
Speaker 1: It must have been like September or whatever.
Speaker 3: You were here and you're going to do the copyright
Speaker 3: infringement and it was a frenzy amongst the people that
Speaker 3: knew frenzy. So this is a message from Tiff dam
Speaker 3: her name is. She said, Hi, Kate, so excited for
Speaker 3: your no Filter with CJ. Hendry The Girls. She's got
Speaker 3: two daughters, the Girls, and I have been following her
Speaker 3: art for years. Back in September twenty nineteen school holidays,
Speaker 3: she came to Melbourne to do the copyright infringement scavenger hunt.
Speaker 3: Seemed like a good way to fill up a day
Speaker 3: in the holidays, so got the kids all excited and
Speaker 3: mapped out our game plan. Frankie eleven at the time.
Speaker 3: She decided to choose an iconic venue and wait, rather
Speaker 3: than chase clues. Very clever give out clues to where
Speaker 3: things were going to be. Mcg was decided and she
Speaker 3: found a spot she thought might be it. Two hours later,
Speaker 3: Frankie screamed, Mum, she's here. Some other guy beat us
Speaker 3: to the box. So they were both running full pelt
Speaker 3: for the red box for what happened, But get a
Speaker 3: load of this, Yeah, he saw that Frankie was heartbroken,
Speaker 3: and he split the box with us.
Speaker 2: Oh a true icon, A true icon.
Speaker 3: Frankie's had it framed in her room until yesterday when
Speaker 3: we dropped it at a framers to be professionally mounted.
Speaker 3: Thank you, CJ for one of the best memories and
Speaker 3: for inspiring my girls to draw. That's tiff dam Oh
Speaker 3: my god, Kate, can we share numbers?
Speaker 1: The beautiful guy, I don't even know what his name is.
Speaker 2: I'll track him down. Don't worry, we'll track him down.
Speaker 2: Oh that's divine what.
Speaker 1: You did, now, you know.
Speaker 3: I mean, people can say art has a meaning or
Speaker 3: art doesn't have a meaning. You know, I know that
Speaker 3: your stuff has maybe been trivialized in the past, your
Speaker 3: God forbid. But what you've what you actually did there
Speaker 3: was so extraordinary that you made the power of you
Speaker 3: brought them together. And the guy shared with a little
Speaker 3: girl the ultimate price.
Speaker 2: What a delicious man. Oh my god. And look at
Speaker 2: that delicious little god that is she's sharing that story, Kate.
Speaker 2: That's really lovely. That like makes each here up. That's
Speaker 2: so I know, that's so special because it's like I'm
Speaker 2: just here drawing, just doing the thing, and I don't
Speaker 2: think like when we're making or building a concept, like
Speaker 2: I'm in all honesty not thinking of what people are
Speaker 2: going to experience, because that's not my job, you know,
Speaker 2: like you know what people think about me or my
Speaker 2: art is not my business. We just build it and
Speaker 2: then they come and then they experience it how everyone's
Speaker 2: going to experience it in their own way. And I
Speaker 2: think that's really special. And what we were talked about
Speaker 2: earlier is making art accessible. I think what's brought me
Speaker 2: more joy than anything is not selling expensive art, like
Speaker 2: that's that's something that happened, but it's building exhibitions is
Speaker 2: always a free component, very like most of the time
Speaker 2: the exhibitions are free. If they're not free, they're like
Speaker 2: a five dollar entry or something as accessible as possible.
Speaker 2: And like being able to build something big and then
Speaker 2: allow people who you know, they might not be a
Speaker 2: position to buy art just to be a part of it,
Speaker 2: Like that's really special because, like you said, I always
Speaker 2: feel really uncomfortable going into galleries. I feel looked down
Speaker 2: upon and I'm like, oh shit, they know that we're
Speaker 2: not rich. It's the same walking into luxury brands. And
Speaker 2: I think in my early days of working at Chanelle,
Speaker 2: I really went out of my way to just make everyone.
Speaker 2: I know they weren't coming into buy ten thousand dollar handbag,
Speaker 2: but just give them a great experience, because like, who
Speaker 2: am I? I'm like, I'm owning less money than you,
Speaker 2: so like, come on in, let's try a handbag on.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: So it's so the same thing goes with art. You
Speaker 2: can do big things and you don't need to be
Speaker 2: nasty about it.
Speaker 1: That's so true.
Speaker 2: I feel very uncomfortable with the high end art world.
Speaker 2: I don't like how it is. It's always going to
Speaker 2: be that way. It's that way for a reason, but
Speaker 2: I just I've always felt uncomfortable by it, and I've
Speaker 2: always been made to feel small and uncomfortable. I'm like,
Speaker 2: why why do you need to feel uncomfortable around art?
Speaker 1: Like that's not how it's meant to be. What do
Speaker 1: you think that's based on?
Speaker 3: Do you think that's as it's defending.
Speaker 1: The fortress of power? I think it's an old school mentality.
Speaker 2: To sell expensive things, you have to.
Speaker 3: Be rude and not rude, but you know, like you
Speaker 3: know that luxury the best examples when you walk into
Speaker 3: expensive stores it's like they're floating at They're not particularly
Speaker 3: happy or friendly.
Speaker 2: You're like, why I think it's changing, Kate. I think
Speaker 2: things are changing. I think the age like people are
Speaker 2: not in You don't need to make the experience uncomfortable
Speaker 2: to sell things at a higher price point, Like it
Speaker 2: can be a beautiful, friendly experience, you know, like that's
Speaker 2: what we're learning. It can be accessible. Like my brand
Speaker 2: has things that are low, medium, high, you know, not
Speaker 2: everyone's coming in for the higher stuff. I certainly wouldn't
Speaker 2: buy my expensive art. It's way too expensive, you know,
Speaker 2: thanks to everyone who does. But yeah, I'm a terrible investment.
Speaker 3: But now you must have noticed, well I'm assuming that
Speaker 3: this has happened, is that you were kind of outside
Speaker 3: the mainstream art world for a long time. Now the
Speaker 3: mainstream art world is coming to you.
Speaker 2: Do you know why? I think it is art follows
Speaker 2: money and it's a really gross it's really gross. But
Speaker 2: there's only so long that the like the bigger, higher
Speaker 2: end art world. I just this is just the way
Speaker 2: things are moving. And like I said before, like works
Speaker 2: above two hundred thousand, above a million are not moving
Speaker 2: at the volume that they once did, and the people
Speaker 2: and gallerists are interested in this different group of people
Speaker 2: who are buying art. They don't need to be interested
Speaker 2: in warholes. They might be interested in other artists that
Speaker 2: they've found on Etsy, your Instagram or whatever that might be.
Speaker 2: You know, it's changing shift.
Speaker 1: They're like, we can share ten thousand such flowers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: of your guards exactly.
Speaker 2: So it's like, you know, things are changing and the
Speaker 2: market's changing, and being accessible and friendly is a good thing,
Speaker 2: you know, Like it's not about being unattainable and awkward.
Speaker 1: That's just not relevant anymore.
Speaker 3: But I do think there's a certain purity to what
Speaker 3: you do very kind, Yeah, I just do, or a
Speaker 3: certain integrity or whatever. And I think maybe just because
Speaker 3: it sort of comes so from yourself, I'm curious about
Speaker 3: how then when you get these other attendant you know,
Speaker 3: when you're offered all the bounty of the world and
Speaker 3: the accolades and the knighthood of revered artists, Like, how.
Speaker 1: Do you keep your channel clear?
Speaker 2: I think that's so funny that even comes up. It's
Speaker 2: just the channel clear is like if you get complacent
Speaker 2: and you think you've made it, that's like the end.
Speaker 1: That's the end. Wrap up shop, you.
Speaker 2: Know what I mean. It's like we've still there's so
Speaker 2: much to do, Like there's so much to do, We're
Speaker 2: so busy doing stuff, like not for a second are
Speaker 2: we sitting down or am I sitting down to say joh,
Speaker 2: jolly good job?
Speaker 1: Like it kiss a shit, shut the fuck up, like
Speaker 1: keep get to work, like why are you late?
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Like that's so it's just
Speaker 2: I find that a really useless way to think and be.
Speaker 2: And you would have seen it a million times everyone has.
Speaker 2: It's like people get an inch of notoriety and then
Speaker 2: they take a step back.
Speaker 1: And then they gone, You're like where was where was
Speaker 1: that person?
Speaker 2: You know? And it's like, well, because they got lazy,
Speaker 2: they've got complacent. You know. I'm a worker. I love working.
Speaker 2: Work brings me so much joy being busy doing something.
Speaker 2: It doesn't even need to be particularly aggressible, being just pottering.
Speaker 2: I love always doing something, doing a craft, Like you know,
Speaker 2: we're always doing something in that studio.
Speaker 3: I want you to do even though it doesn't matter
Speaker 3: what I want you to do, but I just love
Speaker 3: you to keep.
Speaker 1: Doing what you're doing.
Speaker 3: I hope so if one day you decide again to
Speaker 3: do another copyright infringement.
Speaker 1: Oh we might bring it back. Gosh, you'd make people
Speaker 1: let's do it? Why what would you? Yeah, because you've
Speaker 1: asked so nicely, why.
Speaker 2: Don't I just say, because you've asked, just with your
Speaker 2: best ask, why don't I just say, yeah, fuck it,
Speaker 2: will do it next year?
Speaker 1: How about that?
Speaker 3: And you can hold me to it for astrata and
Speaker 3: then anyone this podcast said, but you said, and then
Speaker 3: you can hold me to it.
Speaker 1: Why not let's do it? Yes, yeah, that sounds like
Speaker 1: that's right. And then I'll be like, she's not taking
Speaker 1: my course? Why not?
Speaker 2: Like that's what I mean, Like we don't plan to
Speaker 2: for a head, I'm like, fuck it. Give the people
Speaker 2: what they want. If they want a copyright infringement. Copyright
Speaker 2: infringement is what they'll get.
Speaker 1: Why not infringe your way, baby, CJ.
Speaker 3: What I am curious about is and because your technique
Speaker 3: of your hyperrealism of making things look it's almost magical
Speaker 3: that you look at something go but surely that's liquid
Speaker 3: and it's not it's flat on paper. I know people
Speaker 3: like to say your art is amazing, that it is,
Speaker 3: but how do you feel about AI? Because you know
Speaker 3: somewhere someone's loaded all your art works up and there's
Speaker 3: there's some robots somewhere going I can see J Hendry like,
Speaker 3: so I use.
Speaker 2: AI to help come up with you know, mood boards
Speaker 2: or concepts and things like that. I think AI is
Speaker 2: a beautiful tool to use, and if people want to
Speaker 2: make fake CJ. Hendries and sign them, go for it,
Speaker 2: Like it doesn't bother me. Certainly doesn't bother me in
Speaker 2: the slightest. I think AI what AI can't do. AI
Speaker 2: can't build your building. AI can't make, you know, make
Speaker 2: it a real drawing on the piece, but they can
Speaker 2: do a print out. They can do a rendering of
Speaker 2: what wasn't original, you know what I mean. So it's
Speaker 2: like it's like people can make fake Oma's handbags, but
Speaker 2: it's still not the real one.
Speaker 1: So it's like, if.
Speaker 2: People want to just do an AIC Jane Framant, I'm like,
Speaker 2: go for it, Like it's just doesn't bother me, you know,
Speaker 2: and I asked it just a beautiful tool. But I
Speaker 2: think building things in reality is now more interesting than ever,
Speaker 2: you know, like not just the drawing side, but when
Speaker 2: we're building bigger exhibitions and concepts, Like sometimes people look
Speaker 2: at the photos that are like, oh my god, Like I
Speaker 2: think last year we built a swimming pool in the desert,
Speaker 2: which was a fucking clusterfug but it looks like AI
Speaker 2: like because it's like that swimming pool is not meant
Speaker 2: to be in the middle of nowhere. So we're kind
Speaker 2: of my whole prep pre Like, my premise for building
Speaker 2: these exhibitions is kind of building these artificial realities so
Speaker 2: people can walk through them and experience them in real life.
Speaker 2: So that's really important to me. So, yeah, you can
Speaker 2: build something online all day long, but we were just
Speaker 2: talking about before, like shopping in a shopping center. It's
Speaker 2: like you can shop online, but doing things with people
Speaker 2: and going to an exhibition is so important, you know.
Speaker 2: And yeah, you could buy my ard online, but going
Speaker 2: and experiencing it it's a different thing.
Speaker 1: I must say.
Speaker 3: There would be a delicious irony if you had to
Speaker 3: sue AI for copyright infringement.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I never would n Oh my god, Kate,
Speaker 2: You've given me an idea. What are I like, do
Speaker 2: a cj AI and then I rip it all.
Speaker 1: I don't know there's something in there that copyright Next
Speaker 1: year Infinity Mirrors.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there we go so that there's something in that.
Speaker 2: So I don't know, or maybe I'll just oh, here's one.
Speaker 2: This will be really easy for me. I'll just do
Speaker 2: AI cjs and try and flog them as originals and
Speaker 2: see if anyone can tell the difference.
Speaker 1: There you go, there go, and then I'll buy one
Speaker 1: and I'll I don't know.
Speaker 2: I just think, Kate, like, this is the world, this
Speaker 2: is where we live, and you just work with it.
Speaker 2: Like people, you can fight against stuff while you're wasting
Speaker 2: your energy.
Speaker 1: You know, it's not like what we're going to shut.
Speaker 2: Down AI, noing on.
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful thing. Just use it, embrace it and
Speaker 1: get on with it. That was CJ.
Speaker 3: Hendry, an utter Australian delight, as delightful as the Lamington,
Speaker 3: no fuss, no ego, just head down, bum up, making
Speaker 3: extraordinary things happen, and somehow kind of making them feel easy.
Speaker 3: What struck me most about CJ is in a world,
Speaker 3: the art world, that can be so intimidating or exclusive,
Speaker 3: it's her refusal to play by anyone else's rules. She's
Speaker 3: not trying to be accepted by the art world because
Speaker 3: she's too busy building her own. The executive producer of
Speaker 3: No Filter is Nama Brown. The senior producer is bre Player.
Speaker 3: Sound design and editing by Jacob Brown and I am
Speaker 3: your host, Kate lane Brook.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing