WEBVTT - CJ Hendry’s Life Was Changed With A Pair Of RM Williams Boots. Then Kanye Called

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mama Maya acknowledges

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<v Speaker 1>the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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<v Speaker 1>is recorded on.

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<v Speaker 2>I think an hour before the release, we've got an

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<v Speaker 2>email from the warholl Foundation saying, Hey, you can't do this,

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<v Speaker 2>We'll sue you or whatever. A bit of a season

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<v Speaker 2>to syst oh at White a little bit panicky. I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, holish, a lot of shit.

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<v Speaker 1>We have to pull it. Hi, I'm Kate Lane brook

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to No Filter.

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<v Speaker 3>C J. Hendry is one of the most successful and

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<v Speaker 3>sought after Australian artists working today. But she didn't go

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<v Speaker 3>to art school. She wasn't discovered by a gallery. In fact,

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<v Speaker 3>for a long time she wasn't even represented by a gallery,

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<v Speaker 3>and she certainly didn't follow any kind of traditional path. Instead,

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<v Speaker 3>she was a UNI dropout working retail who loved to draw.

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<v Speaker 3>She sold her wardrobe on eBay, she bought herself some

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<v Speaker 3>beautiful paper and pens and she started posting her drawings,

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<v Speaker 3>her hyper realistic drawings online, and then Kanye West bought

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<v Speaker 3>one of her pieces and that changed everything. CJ now

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<v Speaker 3>lives in Brooklyn with her husband, who's also an Aussie

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<v Speaker 3>and their three kids. She creates immersive art experiences that

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<v Speaker 3>attract crowds around the world, and she's built a global

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<v Speaker 3>business on her own terms without ever waiting for permission.

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<v Speaker 3>In this conversation, CJ and I talk about how she

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<v Speaker 3>got here, how she manages to create while raising a

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<v Speaker 3>young family and while staying agile and making up her

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<v Speaker 3>own rules. Is her secret source. She proves just that,

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<v Speaker 3>by the way, when on the spur of the moment

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<v Speaker 3>during our chat, CJ makes a major announcement that is

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<v Speaker 3>going to send fans into a frenzy.

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<v Speaker 1>Here is CJ Hendry.

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<v Speaker 3>Katherine Katherine, who calls you CJ Hendry my.

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<v Speaker 2>Mum sometimes but not. I don't know, no one really

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<v Speaker 2>calls me Katherine so much. I had a rebrand in

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<v Speaker 2>your five and I was I've been called since then, Yeah, Oh.

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<v Speaker 1>Was it your idea or someone else's.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was mine because there was a girl

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<v Speaker 2>at school who was a bit of a bully and

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<v Speaker 2>she called me Kat and Kathy, and for some reason

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't like that. I was like, we've got a rebrand.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's rebrand to CJ. And it's kind of been like

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<v Speaker 2>that ever since.

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<v Speaker 3>And the rebrand has actually been brilliant for you? Is

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<v Speaker 3>it because if you were, if you were Kath Hendry,

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think your aunt would be the same.

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<v Speaker 2>No, it's giving too feminine, you know, so I think, yeah, CJ.

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<v Speaker 2>Could be.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a little bit of a little bit of b

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<v Speaker 1>Like a lot of people who.

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<v Speaker 2>Might not even know who am or what I do

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<v Speaker 2>still think I'm a boy and that's great.

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<v Speaker 1>Why not?

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<v Speaker 3>And it's like in the olden days when female writers

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<v Speaker 3>would take just a couple of initials at the start,

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<v Speaker 3>so people didn't know if they were male or female. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>Miles Franklin not initially got none the least women.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just it just kind of it's just a happy accident,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Like certainly wasn't planning to be in this

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<v Speaker 2>position or be an artist.

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<v Speaker 1>Way back in year five.

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<v Speaker 2>I was just a little girl who didn't like to

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<v Speaker 2>be called cat, you know, or cat.

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<v Speaker 3>But so much of what you've done, by the way,

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<v Speaker 3>c J. Hendry, welcome to No Filter. Thank you for

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<v Speaker 3>having me, and we're very excited to have you. And

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<v Speaker 3>I there are tentacles coming out from me of people

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<v Speaker 3>that I know and that I love who are so

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<v Speaker 3>beside themselves about you, but in your art, which has

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<v Speaker 3>kind of really evolved quite rapidly. Really it feels sure,

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<v Speaker 3>does it feel rapid to you?

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<v Speaker 1>The unfolding of you?

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<v Speaker 2>No, it doesn't be a rap it at all. I think.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess I'm an artist. I'm an Instagram artist. I

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<v Speaker 2>do lots of different things. Now what started is just

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<v Speaker 2>drawing has now morphed into other things. But I think,

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<v Speaker 2>as with anything, you need to evolve and grow. If

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<v Speaker 2>I was still drawing in black and white on paper

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<v Speaker 2>and still doing that, that is not that it gets

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<v Speaker 2>very uninteresting very quickly, you know. So, I think in

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<v Speaker 2>the speed at which social media works and the speed

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<v Speaker 2>at which people's attentions last, you kind of have to

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<v Speaker 2>evolve and morph and do new shit. And so I'm

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<v Speaker 2>just kind of moving at the speed that it needs

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<v Speaker 2>to be at this point. But yeah, I'm part artist, past,

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<v Speaker 2>part business person, part whatever at this point.

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<v Speaker 3>But you know how we were just saying CJ. Henry

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<v Speaker 3>turned out to be great for you. There seems to

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<v Speaker 3>be like fortune has favored the brave when it comes

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<v Speaker 3>to you, because when you decided to start putting your

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<v Speaker 3>stuff up, it was on Instagram pretty early. Instagram very early,

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<v Speaker 3>very like I couldn't even tell you when, but certainly

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<v Speaker 3>within the first year of it being open, yeah, yeah, right,

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<v Speaker 3>And before that you'd been studying, so you were in

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<v Speaker 3>this study cycle at qut.

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<v Speaker 2>AQT did a bit of architecture. Wasn't very good at that.

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<v Speaker 2>Then I shifted over and enrolled in accounting and finance at.

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<v Speaker 1>UQ even more useless. I know, I was truly useless.

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<v Speaker 1>You know how Like at UNI there's like an overall GPA.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's like one per seven, four as a

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<v Speaker 2>pass and a seven as you're really smart. My overall

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<v Speaker 2>GPO was a three point seventy five. So to give

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<v Speaker 2>you a sense of like where I was on the

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<v Speaker 2>past fail scandeight, my overall mark was a fail.

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<v Speaker 3>So I just kind of lower in architecture or lower

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<v Speaker 3>in when you went into the finance.

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<v Speaker 1>It was all just low.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't exactly tell you a numbers, it was just

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<v Speaker 2>not It was around the past fail numbers, around four

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<v Speaker 2>or just below. For some reason, I just university just

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<v Speaker 2>never gelled for me. I can't quite make that work.

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<v Speaker 2>I was relatively good at school, and then when it

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<v Speaker 2>hit UNI. Maybe it was because I had I was

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<v Speaker 2>able to work and make my own money and do

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<v Speaker 2>my own thing. I was like, university is just a

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<v Speaker 2>hindrance in me being able to go and work at

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<v Speaker 2>a bar. You know, I love working. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>When you in that sort of cycle trying to be.

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<v Speaker 3>A student, were you drawing? Mean, like, when did you

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<v Speaker 3>start drawing? Or have you always drawn?

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<v Speaker 2>Loosely drawn? I wasn't wouldn't say I was exceptional. Like

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<v Speaker 2>I said, I was just a good student at school.

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<v Speaker 2>I think I did the amount of art that everyone

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<v Speaker 2>does at school. You have to do English, you have

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<v Speaker 2>to do science. Most people do are like you know,

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<v Speaker 2>So I was good, but not a standout, And I

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<v Speaker 2>think what I enjoyed more than anything. And then when

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<v Speaker 2>I was at UNI, you know, I was just doing UNI,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, UNI and working. But what it always stuck

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<v Speaker 2>with me with drawing. I wasn't even particularly good at that.

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<v Speaker 2>I was okay, but I'm not certainly where I'm at

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<v Speaker 2>now in terms of skill level. But what always stuck

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<v Speaker 2>with me with drawing, and still to this day, is

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<v Speaker 2>just how drawing made me feel. I'm not particularly woo woo,

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<v Speaker 2>but I just really enjoy being able to sit in

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<v Speaker 2>my own thought and it's almost like a form of meditation.

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<v Speaker 2>Just sit and draw, sure and just zone out, watch

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<v Speaker 2>some Netflix, have a podcast on, listen to audiobooks, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's just as a lovely time just I could

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<v Speaker 2>spend hours on my own just drawing, and I was

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<v Speaker 2>just just I always felt very calm doing that.

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<v Speaker 3>The moment when you decided, okay, UNI's not for you

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<v Speaker 3>and you're not for UNI, and you said to your parents,

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<v Speaker 3>hard working South Africans, you're absolutely right, yep, come to

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<v Speaker 3>Australia and you said, I'm going to take a year

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<v Speaker 3>off and I'm going to draw.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>That how was that conversation?

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<v Speaker 2>It was as as you would expect. Mum and dad,

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<v Speaker 2>just to be clear, the most beautiful, supportive parents. They

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<v Speaker 2>are very hard working, so I think this was just

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<v Speaker 2>a bit of a rogue thing to do. You know.

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<v Speaker 2>They didn't say no, but they certainly weren't like, great,

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<v Speaker 2>how can we you know, let's step in and help.

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<v Speaker 2>I think they were just like, this is what you

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<v Speaker 2>need to do, go for it. I was still living

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<v Speaker 2>at home in the basement with mom and dad, so

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<v Speaker 2>fortunately they never kicked me out, so it couldn't have

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<v Speaker 2>gone that badly, right, certainly, so they were still happy

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<v Speaker 2>to have me at home, but it was it's just

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<v Speaker 2>a weird thing to say, I just want to draw.

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<v Speaker 2>And they knew I enjoyed drawing, they knew I was

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<v Speaker 2>okay at it. But I think Mum was just like, well, artists,

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<v Speaker 2>how are you going to support yourself? Like that just

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't work? And I said, I don't care. That's just

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<v Speaker 2>not my focus. I just want to draw because I

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<v Speaker 2>enjoy it. You know, UNI's not going particularly well working

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<v Speaker 2>at a bar, you know, like who gives a shit?

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<v Speaker 2>So then I kind of sold at that point in time,

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<v Speaker 2>I sold my whole wardrobe on eBay. This is when

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<v Speaker 2>eBay was really cool, and I saw my wardrobe and

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<v Speaker 2>either so I had a little bit of money so

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<v Speaker 2>I could buy all my materials.

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<v Speaker 3>And yeah, because you'd also had a taste for luxury

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<v Speaker 3>goods before then, Yeah, so you had some high stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>I had champagne taste and beer money. So I would

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<v Speaker 2>save up all my money and I would go and

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<v Speaker 2>buy fancy things. And where was I going Nowhere? But

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<v Speaker 2>I just like to have nice things, you know, like that.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I wasn't out all the time. I just

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<v Speaker 2>just enjoyed nice shoes and bags and clothes for no

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<v Speaker 2>reason other than I just like to have it. And yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>i'd just work at a bar, save up all my

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<v Speaker 2>money from tips and whatever else, and I'd just go

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<v Speaker 2>buy beautiful things. And then that led to me getting

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<v Speaker 2>a job at Chanel, which was in Brisbane, which was amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>I learned so much from that. And this was just

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<v Speaker 2>me selling handbags. I wasn't doing anything particularly life threatening there.

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<v Speaker 1>It's hard to get a job at Chanel, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean I think so, But somehow I talked my

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<v Speaker 2>way in and they said yes, and I said, I said, great,

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<v Speaker 2>when did we start? So I spent a couple of

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<v Speaker 2>years there and learn a lot just about just luxury

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<v Speaker 2>and the selling of luxury. And in all honesty, the

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<v Speaker 2>brand sold itself so we didn't have to do a

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<v Speaker 2>whole b just had I just had to have chat

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<v Speaker 2>really and yeah, I had a grand all time there.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's when I was kind of doing Yuni. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>trying to piece it all together. Yeah, just I was

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<v Speaker 2>just like, I just don't think this is the direction

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<v Speaker 2>my life has meant to go. You know, Yuni is

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<v Speaker 2>not going well. I don't think I want to work

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<v Speaker 2>in retail forever. Let me just try my hand at drawing.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, that's when I kind of sold my wardrobe

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<v Speaker 2>and said, all right, I've got enough. I've got enough

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<v Speaker 2>leg room to kind of go through for the next

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<v Speaker 2>year and just draw. And that's what I did.

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<v Speaker 1>You went and bought with your wardrobe money.

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<v Speaker 3>You went and brought a whole lot of pencils and

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<v Speaker 3>paper stock instead draw.

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<v Speaker 2>Yep, So I went and bought beautiful paper and pens.

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<v Speaker 2>I think the thing that I always wanted I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>want the quality of my materials to be not great.

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<v Speaker 2>I've always liked to do things as well as I can,

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<v Speaker 2>or close to perfect. Even from the start, I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>I just want this beautiful cotton paper. I want these

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<v Speaker 2>like Japanese pens. And also framing was really expensive. Framing

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<v Speaker 2>was certainly the more expensive part of this whole thing. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was just going to draw. The plan was

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<v Speaker 2>to just do five drawings, put them in a folio

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<v Speaker 2>and take them to galleries around Brisbane and the hope

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<v Speaker 2>that they might be interested enough to sign me or

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<v Speaker 2>represent me or.

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<v Speaker 1>Something like that.

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<v Speaker 2>And then in the means, you know, I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>that might take a couple of months, let's let's work

0:11:29.605 --> 0:11:32.605
<v Speaker 2>toward that. And then in that time, that's when social

0:11:32.605 --> 0:11:34.965
<v Speaker 2>media was kind of happening. I think my sister was like, oh,

0:11:35.045 --> 0:11:37.125
<v Speaker 2>let's just take a photo and post it. I said, okay,

0:11:37.805 --> 0:11:40.965
<v Speaker 2>and then yeah, one thing led to another, and I mean,

0:11:41.085 --> 0:11:44.285
<v Speaker 2>it's all funny to talk about so like Instagram way

0:11:44.285 --> 0:11:45.285
<v Speaker 2>back then, but it isn't.

0:11:45.485 --> 0:11:47.325
<v Speaker 1>It was funny back then, you know.

0:11:47.405 --> 0:11:49.845
<v Speaker 2>You just kind of post and the goal was still, well,

0:11:49.885 --> 0:11:51.325
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to go to a gallery because that's what

0:11:51.365 --> 0:11:53.805
<v Speaker 2>you do as an artist. Never was I like I'm

0:11:53.845 --> 0:11:57.125
<v Speaker 2>going to be a hack on Instagram. I'm like, that

0:11:57.205 --> 0:12:01.805
<v Speaker 2>was not That was certainly not the plan, and it's

0:12:01.805 --> 0:12:04.045
<v Speaker 2>still not the plan. But I'm still here, I guess,

0:12:04.645 --> 0:12:05.445
<v Speaker 2>And also.

0:12:06.005 --> 0:12:07.525
<v Speaker 1>Like, really, what is the plan?

0:12:07.645 --> 0:12:12.845
<v Speaker 3>Because everything in retrospect seems like it's a plan, but

0:12:12.925 --> 0:12:16.085
<v Speaker 3>when you're doing it, it's often just instinct or what

0:12:16.125 --> 0:12:17.045
<v Speaker 3>you feel like doing.

0:12:18.205 --> 0:12:20.765
<v Speaker 2>And I think it's still instincts, Like very rarely are

0:12:20.765 --> 0:12:23.525
<v Speaker 2>we working with like a hardcore plant with anything, you know,

0:12:23.685 --> 0:12:28.005
<v Speaker 2>like we'll be building exhibitions. I certainly know where I'm

0:12:28.045 --> 0:12:30.885
<v Speaker 2>at now and where I hope to be, you know,

0:12:31.445 --> 0:12:34.725
<v Speaker 2>I just like to create things and build exhibitions and

0:12:34.845 --> 0:12:37.685
<v Speaker 2>draw whatever that might look like, and just to create

0:12:37.765 --> 0:12:43.085
<v Speaker 2>things as often as I can and kind of create

0:12:43.165 --> 0:12:45.645
<v Speaker 2>alternate realities for people to experience, you know, and we're

0:12:45.685 --> 0:12:47.565
<v Speaker 2>just having a whole lot of fun doing it. The

0:12:47.645 --> 0:12:50.685
<v Speaker 2>team's amazing. I've worked with a beautiful team who helped

0:12:50.725 --> 0:12:51.965
<v Speaker 2>me execute these ideas.

0:12:52.005 --> 0:12:52.205
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:12:52.325 --> 0:12:55.885
<v Speaker 2>Everyone works really really hard, harder than me, you know.

0:12:55.965 --> 0:12:58.765
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, it's just being able to build these super

0:12:58.765 --> 0:13:01.325
<v Speaker 2>creative things and put them into reality and for people

0:13:01.325 --> 0:13:03.085
<v Speaker 2>to come and experience them.

0:13:03.325 --> 0:13:08.085
<v Speaker 1>Is the plan this? You know, Well, that's the execution

0:13:08.405 --> 0:13:09.805
<v Speaker 1>of the plan, I guess.

0:13:10.005 --> 0:13:13.125
<v Speaker 3>But if you go back to that moment that must

0:13:13.125 --> 0:13:16.845
<v Speaker 3>have been it must have had some significance for you.

0:13:17.005 --> 0:13:19.525
<v Speaker 3>Was it the rim Williams boots that you were the

0:13:19.565 --> 0:13:20.605
<v Speaker 3>first thing you sold?

0:13:20.885 --> 0:13:21.085
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

0:13:21.125 --> 0:13:24.325
<v Speaker 1>That you might be exactly right, right? And how was

0:13:24.365 --> 0:13:26.325
<v Speaker 1>that moment that.

0:13:26.445 --> 0:13:30.285
<v Speaker 2>Was game changing? Because they it wasn't an insignificant amo

0:13:30.645 --> 0:13:32.965
<v Speaker 2>amount of money. It was like ten thousand dollars, which

0:13:32.965 --> 0:13:36.685
<v Speaker 2>is insane. I was like, I even kind of cold around,

0:13:36.685 --> 0:13:38.885
<v Speaker 2>So I was like, are you sure? You know, because

0:13:38.925 --> 0:13:41.085
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't sure that they wanted it, And then that

0:13:41.565 --> 0:13:43.605
<v Speaker 2>it kind of gives you the confidence at that point

0:13:43.645 --> 0:13:46.445
<v Speaker 2>to say, gosh, this could be something. And I always

0:13:47.045 --> 0:13:49.565
<v Speaker 2>try to encourage people who are looking at ur you know,

0:13:49.685 --> 0:13:52.165
<v Speaker 2>or wanting to buy art. I'm like, always support artists

0:13:52.165 --> 0:13:54.885
<v Speaker 2>who are starting out. Don't buy my art, Heaven's sake,

0:13:54.925 --> 0:13:56.845
<v Speaker 2>who gives a shit about me? Go and support artists

0:13:56.845 --> 0:13:59.765
<v Speaker 2>who are just starting out because it can really change

0:13:59.765 --> 0:14:01.365
<v Speaker 2>the course of their whole life. And I know this

0:14:01.445 --> 0:14:03.645
<v Speaker 2>particular family who bought these rm will into boots like

0:14:03.645 --> 0:14:06.125
<v Speaker 2>truly changed my life because it was I was able

0:14:06.165 --> 0:14:08.805
<v Speaker 2>to use that money to continue to draw and get

0:14:08.805 --> 0:14:11.285
<v Speaker 2>things from and you know, not have to go and

0:14:11.285 --> 0:14:13.365
<v Speaker 2>get a job for another six months, because ten thousand

0:14:13.365 --> 0:14:15.365
<v Speaker 2>dollars goes such a long way, you know.

0:14:15.525 --> 0:14:18.605
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, it's really important.

0:14:18.085 --> 0:14:21.805
<v Speaker 3>Very unusual, I think for any emerging artist as you

0:14:21.845 --> 0:14:25.605
<v Speaker 3>were then, probably didn't even really define yourself maybe as

0:14:25.645 --> 0:14:26.605
<v Speaker 3>an artist then.

0:14:27.045 --> 0:14:28.805
<v Speaker 2>No, just someone who liked to draw.

0:14:29.165 --> 0:14:33.885
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, just for someone to sell their first work

0:14:34.885 --> 0:14:37.885
<v Speaker 3>for ten grand is quite incredible.

0:14:38.405 --> 0:14:41.205
<v Speaker 2>It is. But I was looking at it quite logically.

0:14:41.245 --> 0:14:43.165
<v Speaker 2>I was like, well, it took me x amount of hours.

0:14:43.165 --> 0:14:46.005
<v Speaker 2>If I'm going on a twenty five dollars an hour rate,

0:14:46.445 --> 0:14:50.485
<v Speaker 2>that works out. It was probably like three hundred. Yeah,

0:14:50.685 --> 0:14:51.645
<v Speaker 2>that was more than.

0:14:51.485 --> 0:14:52.085
<v Speaker 1>The shell rate.

0:14:52.125 --> 0:14:54.605
<v Speaker 2>So I thought I might up a little bit. I thought,

0:14:54.605 --> 0:14:57.205
<v Speaker 2>look at me. Yes, I was like, twenty five seems fair.

0:14:57.285 --> 0:14:58.845
<v Speaker 2>And I was like, I think I rounded out to

0:14:59.005 --> 0:15:00.725
<v Speaker 2>like nine thousand and three. I was like, look rounded

0:15:00.765 --> 0:15:03.205
<v Speaker 2>up to ten. That's just my time, you know. And

0:15:04.085 --> 0:15:07.405
<v Speaker 2>they seem to like it. Yeah, but yeah, it was.

0:15:07.525 --> 0:15:09.645
<v Speaker 2>It did change the course of everything because I was

0:15:10.005 --> 0:15:13.005
<v Speaker 2>able to continue to draw. And then I think someone

0:15:13.085 --> 0:15:14.845
<v Speaker 2>else reached out and said I'd like to buy something

0:15:14.925 --> 0:15:16.885
<v Speaker 2>or commission something, and that's kind of how it.

0:15:16.885 --> 0:15:18.245
<v Speaker 1>Started, you know.

0:15:18.485 --> 0:15:20.245
<v Speaker 2>I I was able to make a little bit of money.

0:15:20.645 --> 0:15:24.085
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so that was like twenty fourteen. Yeah.

0:15:24.125 --> 0:15:28.045
<v Speaker 3>Had you met Lewis then? Who is now your husband?

0:15:28.765 --> 0:15:33.645
<v Speaker 3>So we started officially dating on eleven, twelve thirteen, so yes,

0:15:33.885 --> 0:15:36.805
<v Speaker 3>I had yeah. Yeah, So we met just as I

0:15:36.845 --> 0:15:39.965
<v Speaker 3>was like loosely starting to draw. He was studying engineering

0:15:40.005 --> 0:15:43.085
<v Speaker 3>at UQ. He's very smart. He got his degree.

0:15:43.285 --> 0:15:45.845
<v Speaker 1>I didn't. Yeah, so I think we've just started dating.

0:15:46.005 --> 0:15:50.085
<v Speaker 1>Gpa what was his GPM? It's high, you say, he

0:15:50.085 --> 0:15:54.325
<v Speaker 1>always downplaying and I was very high. Yeah. Yeah, And

0:15:54.365 --> 0:15:56.805
<v Speaker 1>then how did you two meet?

0:15:57.245 --> 0:16:02.445
<v Speaker 2>We met at the Strategy Day races playing Spin the Bottle. Yeah,

0:16:02.885 --> 0:16:06.605
<v Speaker 2>just I was out and he was out and someone

0:16:06.725 --> 0:16:11.445
<v Speaker 2>dad spit the battle with an after party, and then

0:16:11.445 --> 0:16:14.325
<v Speaker 2>I got back's house. Literally, I could tell you exactly

0:16:14.365 --> 0:16:16.645
<v Speaker 2>where it was. Yeah, it was so funny. And then

0:16:16.685 --> 0:16:19.685
<v Speaker 2>that's kind of happened, and then we just loosely started

0:16:19.685 --> 0:16:24.245
<v Speaker 2>hanging out, and yeah, I think he wanted Yeah, do you.

0:16:24.205 --> 0:16:26.885
<v Speaker 3>Think people know all know spin the bottle, which is

0:16:26.925 --> 0:16:28.845
<v Speaker 3>an old It's Australian, isn't it.

0:16:28.845 --> 0:16:33.125
<v Speaker 1>It's an Australian Spin the bottle in the.

0:16:33.045 --> 0:16:35.925
<v Speaker 3>Bottle and then when the bottle, both ends of the

0:16:35.925 --> 0:16:38.885
<v Speaker 3>bottle points to two people obviously, and then those people

0:16:38.925 --> 0:16:39.645
<v Speaker 3>have to kiss.

0:16:40.005 --> 0:16:43.845
<v Speaker 1>That's exactly how it happened. And then here we are. Yeah,

0:16:43.965 --> 0:16:46.245
<v Speaker 1>but at that point he was your boyfriend.

0:16:47.085 --> 0:16:51.325
<v Speaker 3>You like drawing, You're selling a couple of things.

0:16:52.205 --> 0:16:54.125
<v Speaker 1>He's going to be an engineer.

0:16:54.605 --> 0:16:58.365
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he was. He wanted to go somewhere else to work,

0:16:58.805 --> 0:17:01.205
<v Speaker 2>and he was toying up between Hong Kong and New York,

0:17:01.325 --> 0:17:02.925
<v Speaker 2>and he landed on New York and I was like,

0:17:03.005 --> 0:17:05.565
<v Speaker 2>you know what, I'd like to come because I want

0:17:05.605 --> 0:17:08.205
<v Speaker 2>to continue, you know, like the art was kind of happening.

0:17:08.565 --> 0:17:11.125
<v Speaker 2>I must say, this time I had signed, I'd started

0:17:11.125 --> 0:17:14.205
<v Speaker 2>to talk to Bill Tikos, who ran The Cool Hunter.

0:17:15.245 --> 0:17:20.405
<v Speaker 2>He was a very instrumental person in developing and growing

0:17:20.405 --> 0:17:22.245
<v Speaker 2>my career in the early days. I don't think i'd

0:17:22.285 --> 0:17:25.165
<v Speaker 2>be here certainly without him. I could definitely give credit

0:17:25.205 --> 0:17:26.725
<v Speaker 2>to a lot of people throughout the years, but he

0:17:26.845 --> 0:17:30.085
<v Speaker 2>was instrumental in those early days. He was so confident

0:17:30.525 --> 0:17:33.805
<v Speaker 2>and so brazen about selling art. He's like, who gives

0:17:33.845 --> 0:17:35.725
<v Speaker 2>a shit that you're sell on Instagram, Let's just go

0:17:35.765 --> 0:17:37.645
<v Speaker 2>for it. And I was like, oh, heavens, you know.

0:17:37.725 --> 0:17:40.605
<v Speaker 2>So he took care of the sale side of things,

0:17:40.685 --> 0:17:43.565
<v Speaker 2>and yeah, heavens, he took care of the sale side

0:17:43.565 --> 0:17:45.245
<v Speaker 2>of things, and then I was just able to draw.

0:17:45.405 --> 0:17:48.165
<v Speaker 2>So it was a beautiful relationship for many years. And

0:17:48.565 --> 0:17:50.885
<v Speaker 2>yeah that it just allowed me to just draw every

0:17:50.965 --> 0:17:53.285
<v Speaker 2>day and he handled everything else, which was great.

0:17:53.645 --> 0:17:56.285
<v Speaker 1>So it was around that time that I signed with him.

0:17:56.485 --> 0:17:59.605
<v Speaker 3>But you're also obviously, I mean, I think it's a

0:17:59.645 --> 0:18:04.405
<v Speaker 3>hallmark of kind of the way he lives that you're like, well,

0:18:04.485 --> 0:18:07.125
<v Speaker 3>I'm going into this area where there are no rules,

0:18:08.365 --> 0:18:11.285
<v Speaker 3>so I'm just gonna follow my nose.

0:18:12.045 --> 0:18:16.085
<v Speaker 2>That's a great point, kay, because art, in my opinions

0:18:16.125 --> 0:18:20.885
<v Speaker 2>still to this day, is the last unregulated industry. Finance was,

0:18:21.725 --> 0:18:25.685
<v Speaker 2>now it's not, and art is completely unregulated. There's no rules,

0:18:25.765 --> 0:18:28.685
<v Speaker 2>there's no right or wrongs. It's subjective. People love it,

0:18:28.725 --> 0:18:32.325
<v Speaker 2>people hate it. Why is something valued at ten million dollars?

0:18:32.365 --> 0:18:35.085
<v Speaker 2>Why is something? Like? Why is something valued at ten dollars?

0:18:35.165 --> 0:18:38.285
<v Speaker 2>You know? Like it's why? Like it's so arbitrary, And

0:18:38.325 --> 0:18:41.245
<v Speaker 2>that's what I find really fascinating. It's all perceived value.

0:18:41.485 --> 0:18:46.845
<v Speaker 2>It's it's storytelling, it's everything. It's commerce and creative mixed

0:18:46.885 --> 0:18:49.285
<v Speaker 2>up in one. And it's a beautiful it can be

0:18:49.285 --> 0:18:52.205
<v Speaker 2>a beautiful combination. I mean, if you're a commercial artist

0:18:52.245 --> 0:18:54.245
<v Speaker 2>like I am, if you're just somebody wants to make

0:18:54.445 --> 0:18:56.925
<v Speaker 2>you know art and sell it on Etsy, Yeah, that's

0:18:56.925 --> 0:18:58.805
<v Speaker 2>a different type of artist, but it's still an artist.

0:18:59.245 --> 0:19:01.685
<v Speaker 2>You know. Just because you're making money doesn't mean you're

0:19:01.685 --> 0:19:04.565
<v Speaker 2>any better. Certainly doesn't mean you're any better than someone

0:19:04.645 --> 0:19:05.885
<v Speaker 2>making art, you know.

0:19:06.285 --> 0:19:08.525
<v Speaker 3>But it's I find it interesting that you say it's

0:19:08.565 --> 0:19:14.765
<v Speaker 3>unregulated because you've kind of made it unregulated, because I

0:19:14.765 --> 0:19:19.085
<v Speaker 3>think before you it wasn't it was so or maybe

0:19:19.085 --> 0:19:22.085
<v Speaker 3>that's my perception from the outside that it's got a

0:19:22.165 --> 0:19:25.125
<v Speaker 3>very elitist overtone, and a lot.

0:19:24.965 --> 0:19:27.525
<v Speaker 1>Of it has to be what does this work mean?

0:19:28.125 --> 0:19:31.885
<v Speaker 3>And normal people are staring at things like boggle eyed

0:19:33.245 --> 0:19:35.485
<v Speaker 3>and it kind of made to feel a bit lesser

0:19:35.605 --> 0:19:38.845
<v Speaker 3>if they don't understand the motivation of the artist.

0:19:39.805 --> 0:19:42.045
<v Speaker 1>Now, you changed a lot of that.

0:19:41.845 --> 0:19:47.645
<v Speaker 3>Through just doing your art and letting people appreciate it

0:19:47.685 --> 0:19:48.365
<v Speaker 3>for what it was.

0:19:49.805 --> 0:19:52.325
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's very kind of you to say, and I

0:19:52.365 --> 0:19:55.485
<v Speaker 2>guess there is an element of that. But by no

0:19:55.565 --> 0:19:57.925
<v Speaker 2>means was I going out there to be like, look

0:19:57.925 --> 0:20:01.725
<v Speaker 2>at me, I'm going to change some shit. No, I

0:20:01.765 --> 0:20:04.005
<v Speaker 2>was just making my art and one thing led to another.

0:20:04.165 --> 0:20:07.845
<v Speaker 2>Series of unfortunate events have led me here. But no, was.

0:20:08.245 --> 0:20:10.485
<v Speaker 2>It just is what it is. And I think to

0:20:10.565 --> 0:20:13.805
<v Speaker 2>your point of art being very elitist, it is still

0:20:13.925 --> 0:20:16.765
<v Speaker 2>at the very highest level. It is still. But what

0:20:16.965 --> 0:20:20.165
<v Speaker 2>is happening which is really interesting at the very highest

0:20:20.245 --> 0:20:24.525
<v Speaker 2>levels from I'm talking two hundred thousand and above into

0:20:24.565 --> 0:20:27.525
<v Speaker 2>the millions, art's not moving like they're not moving the

0:20:27.525 --> 0:20:30.925
<v Speaker 2>amount of infantry that they once did, because those those

0:20:31.005 --> 0:20:34.285
<v Speaker 2>were a different subset of people. You know, like much

0:20:34.365 --> 0:20:37.525
<v Speaker 2>you know boomers, now, who are you know, looking to,

0:20:38.165 --> 0:20:40.285
<v Speaker 2>you know, slow down their spending or whatever it might be.

0:20:40.365 --> 0:20:43.405
<v Speaker 2>And now there's a whole lot of younger kid who

0:20:43.445 --> 0:20:45.725
<v Speaker 2>are coming in with either their parents' money or their

0:20:45.765 --> 0:20:49.285
<v Speaker 2>own money, self made, who are not interested in buying

0:20:49.285 --> 0:20:52.005
<v Speaker 2>Pocassa's for ten million. They're like, that's not very interesting.

0:20:52.165 --> 0:20:54.845
<v Speaker 2>I can't meet Pokassa. He's a dead guy, you know.

0:20:54.925 --> 0:20:56.965
<v Speaker 2>So I think they are looking to kind of invest

0:20:57.005 --> 0:21:02.565
<v Speaker 2>in artists who are slightly younger, who are highly contemporary artists.

0:21:02.565 --> 0:21:04.845
<v Speaker 2>And I'm not just talking about myself. There's a whole

0:21:04.845 --> 0:21:07.645
<v Speaker 2>lot of people, you know, my peers, who are doing

0:21:07.645 --> 0:21:09.445
<v Speaker 2>it as well. I'm certainly not the only one. And

0:21:09.485 --> 0:21:13.685
<v Speaker 2>there's everyone's doing a great job. And we're young. We're

0:21:14.165 --> 0:21:17.565
<v Speaker 2>like moving at a rapid rate, and it's interesting to watch,

0:21:17.685 --> 0:21:20.405
<v Speaker 2>you know. And I think people enjoy that. I mean,

0:21:20.565 --> 0:21:23.365
<v Speaker 2>I certainly enjoy it. You know, not everyone loves it.

0:21:23.405 --> 0:21:27.365
<v Speaker 2>I'm not looking for worldwide acceptance, but yeah, we're kind

0:21:27.365 --> 0:21:30.445
<v Speaker 2>of slowly just taking down the elitist nature of it.

0:21:30.445 --> 0:21:35.085
<v Speaker 3>It's like democratized art and throwing the doors open.

0:21:36.325 --> 0:21:39.885
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I think I certainly will build exhibitions and

0:21:39.925 --> 0:21:43.405
<v Speaker 2>there's no basis on a wall when you enter. You know,

0:21:43.445 --> 0:21:46.805
<v Speaker 2>there's often big, big things you have to read about

0:21:46.805 --> 0:21:50.445
<v Speaker 2>what someone's feeling with convoluted words that even I don't know,

0:21:50.605 --> 0:21:52.085
<v Speaker 2>and I'm not very I wouldn't even know how to

0:21:52.125 --> 0:21:54.405
<v Speaker 2>put that together. I'd have to use AI to write it.

0:21:54.805 --> 0:21:56.725
<v Speaker 2>And that just is no interest to me, because then

0:21:56.725 --> 0:21:58.605
<v Speaker 2>you're forcing people to feel a certain way when they

0:21:58.645 --> 0:22:01.085
<v Speaker 2>walk in. I just want people to walk in with

0:22:01.605 --> 0:22:04.565
<v Speaker 2>any age, any background, and you just walk in. You

0:22:04.645 --> 0:22:06.805
<v Speaker 2>might love it, you might hate it, but you're going

0:22:06.845 --> 0:22:08.565
<v Speaker 2>to feel something when you walk in because you have

0:22:08.605 --> 0:22:11.445
<v Speaker 2>to experience. I think whatever that might be. It might

0:22:11.485 --> 0:22:13.605
<v Speaker 2>be a bounce house, it might be this big inflatable

0:22:13.605 --> 0:22:17.045
<v Speaker 2>climbing things. It might be a church with pedals in London. Like,

0:22:17.045 --> 0:22:19.765
<v Speaker 2>there's so many different things we've done over the years,

0:22:19.765 --> 0:22:22.805
<v Speaker 2>and they're all different, they're all a bit outlandish, and

0:22:22.805 --> 0:22:25.125
<v Speaker 2>people are certainly going to feel something, you know, but

0:22:25.765 --> 0:22:28.085
<v Speaker 2>I don't expect you to feel what I feel.

0:22:32.005 --> 0:22:35.605
<v Speaker 3>Coming up after this short breather, CJ explains how she

0:22:35.885 --> 0:22:40.365
<v Speaker 3>and her art got discovered by some pretty major power players.

0:22:40.725 --> 0:22:42.965
<v Speaker 3>When she followed Lewis to New York.

0:22:43.325 --> 0:22:44.605
<v Speaker 1>He had no say in it.

0:22:50.365 --> 0:22:55.725
<v Speaker 3>I'm curious about the moment when you said to Lewis,

0:22:56.485 --> 0:23:00.445
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to come to New York with you? Do

0:23:00.525 --> 0:23:02.285
<v Speaker 3>you want me to come to New York with you?

0:23:02.525 --> 0:23:06.005
<v Speaker 3>Or was that alike I'm coming to moment?

0:23:06.805 --> 0:23:07.645
<v Speaker 1>Oh where you.

0:23:07.605 --> 0:23:11.765
<v Speaker 2>Were at It was definitely I'm coming to please can

0:23:11.765 --> 0:23:14.125
<v Speaker 2>I come? And like, I know, I was like, look,

0:23:14.125 --> 0:23:17.485
<v Speaker 2>we're only freshly dating, but like, just let's not plan

0:23:17.565 --> 0:23:20.525
<v Speaker 2>too far ahead. I'm a big believer and don't plan

0:23:20.565 --> 0:23:23.085
<v Speaker 2>too far ahead because life happens and then your plan

0:23:23.125 --> 0:23:25.645
<v Speaker 2>has to change. And if you're too focused on, you know,

0:23:25.685 --> 0:23:27.845
<v Speaker 2>on your exact plan, then you're not going to see

0:23:27.845 --> 0:23:30.245
<v Speaker 2>the opportunity that they present itself. So I said, look,

0:23:30.285 --> 0:23:33.245
<v Speaker 2>we're just dating. Let's just go. If it doesn't work out,

0:23:33.285 --> 0:23:35.445
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't work out, let's you know, but let's just

0:23:35.485 --> 0:23:38.405
<v Speaker 2>go as just a little, you know, just lovers. Let's

0:23:38.405 --> 0:23:40.845
<v Speaker 2>go as lovers. We went as lovers. We rented an

0:23:40.885 --> 0:23:45.445
<v Speaker 2>apartment together. He started his business. I was doing my thing,

0:23:45.965 --> 0:23:48.245
<v Speaker 2>you know, we just I've always been kind of doing

0:23:48.285 --> 0:23:51.365
<v Speaker 2>our own thing, which has been great. And then one

0:23:51.365 --> 0:23:55.205
<v Speaker 2>thing led to another. We couldn't afford our apartment anymore.

0:23:55.205 --> 0:23:58.085
<v Speaker 2>In Tribeca because I was working from home there drawing

0:23:58.245 --> 0:24:00.365
<v Speaker 2>and he would go to work and we couldn't we

0:24:00.365 --> 0:24:03.045
<v Speaker 2>needed more space. We couldn't afford to be in Manhattan,

0:24:03.085 --> 0:24:05.925
<v Speaker 2>so we got pushed out to Brooklyn to Greenpoint, where

0:24:05.965 --> 0:24:08.685
<v Speaker 2>we rented a big warehouse we could afford. And we've

0:24:08.685 --> 0:24:10.685
<v Speaker 2>been a green Point ever since. And now green Point's

0:24:10.725 --> 0:24:12.965
<v Speaker 2>really cool, but it wasn't cool way back then. It

0:24:12.965 --> 0:24:15.405
<v Speaker 2>was a bit shit. And then we've been to Brooklyn

0:24:15.445 --> 0:24:18.325
<v Speaker 2>ever since. And we got married. We took our families

0:24:18.325 --> 0:24:20.805
<v Speaker 2>to lunch and we just eloped to the Brisbane City Hall.

0:24:21.485 --> 0:24:25.205
<v Speaker 2>And then we've got three kids are a four or

0:24:25.205 --> 0:24:26.365
<v Speaker 2>three and a six months old.

0:24:26.445 --> 0:24:29.285
<v Speaker 1>So it's been busy. It's been a busy couple of years.

0:24:29.285 --> 0:24:30.645
<v Speaker 1>And you seem pretty happy.

0:24:32.725 --> 0:24:36.925
<v Speaker 2>Happy happy as a happy is a sliding scale. I

0:24:36.925 --> 0:24:39.045
<v Speaker 2>think there's some days that make me happier than others,

0:24:39.605 --> 0:24:42.085
<v Speaker 2>but I think over the course of many years, I'm

0:24:42.125 --> 0:24:45.725
<v Speaker 2>like just trying to just coast along. There's always stress

0:24:45.765 --> 0:24:48.525
<v Speaker 2>and pressure, whether it be financially. Kids are a whole

0:24:48.525 --> 0:24:49.565
<v Speaker 2>different level of stress.

0:24:49.605 --> 0:24:50.045
<v Speaker 1>As you know.

0:24:50.925 --> 0:24:53.285
<v Speaker 2>Any parent can attest to, you know, and any parent

0:24:53.285 --> 0:24:56.365
<v Speaker 2>who's working and also has kids, you know, even if

0:24:56.405 --> 0:24:59.805
<v Speaker 2>you don't have kids. Just life is stressful in different ways.

0:24:59.845 --> 0:25:03.205
<v Speaker 2>So I always try to look on the more optimistic

0:25:03.245 --> 0:25:06.085
<v Speaker 2>side because nothing's going to go according to plan. You're

0:25:06.125 --> 0:25:08.405
<v Speaker 2>never going to be skinny enough or rich enough, so

0:25:08.405 --> 0:25:10.365
<v Speaker 2>I may as well just get into it. He must

0:25:10.565 --> 0:25:14.085
<v Speaker 2>like you and I like him. It's a two way street. Yeah,

0:25:14.125 --> 0:25:16.485
<v Speaker 2>it's a two way street. Well, I'm very lucky. I

0:25:16.485 --> 0:25:19.245
<v Speaker 2>think we're a good little We're just good mates, you know,

0:25:19.365 --> 0:25:23.165
<v Speaker 2>like we have a laugh, we don't take anything too seriously. Yeah,

0:25:23.205 --> 0:25:26.285
<v Speaker 2>he's he's a good two busy Bogans. You know, it

0:25:26.325 --> 0:25:26.845
<v Speaker 2>was meant to be.

0:25:27.525 --> 0:25:31.965
<v Speaker 3>To work at your level, you need to outsource part

0:25:32.005 --> 0:25:33.005
<v Speaker 3>of the child.

0:25:34.445 --> 0:25:38.365
<v Speaker 1>All of that. At what point do you and Lewis

0:25:38.405 --> 0:25:39.365
<v Speaker 1>go are we?

0:25:39.725 --> 0:25:42.085
<v Speaker 3>How do we find that balance of how much you

0:25:42.205 --> 0:25:44.965
<v Speaker 3>outsource with three little kids.

0:25:45.725 --> 0:25:47.965
<v Speaker 2>I'll speak for myself, but I know just talking to

0:25:47.965 --> 0:25:50.045
<v Speaker 2>my other mum friends, it's always going to be the

0:25:50.085 --> 0:25:54.365
<v Speaker 2>biggest sense of guilt and not knowing what the right

0:25:54.405 --> 0:25:56.445
<v Speaker 2>answer is. I mean, you've got four kids. I'm sure

0:25:56.445 --> 0:25:59.885
<v Speaker 2>there were most, you know, Like, it's just I'm fortunate

0:26:00.005 --> 0:26:02.445
<v Speaker 2>that when I've had my babies, my mum's come over

0:26:02.525 --> 0:26:05.205
<v Speaker 2>from Oz to help out. So for the first four months,

0:26:05.285 --> 0:26:07.925
<v Speaker 2>she'll be there five months helping out. She's coming over

0:26:08.005 --> 0:26:10.565
<v Speaker 2>again for the so my holidays to look after the

0:26:10.565 --> 0:26:13.325
<v Speaker 2>big kids. We're fortunate enough to have a nanny who

0:26:13.325 --> 0:26:16.325
<v Speaker 2>helps with the baby while we're at work. It's just

0:26:16.405 --> 0:26:18.445
<v Speaker 2>a it's a trade off, you know what I mean.

0:26:18.565 --> 0:26:21.445
<v Speaker 2>I know on a Saturday and Sunday, I'm fucking miserable.

0:26:21.525 --> 0:26:23.205
<v Speaker 2>Lewis and I are about to divorce each other on a

0:26:23.245 --> 0:26:25.365
<v Speaker 2>Sunday afternoon when we've had the kids for two days.

0:26:25.365 --> 0:26:28.765
<v Speaker 2>So I'm like, well, that's not that's not that's not

0:26:28.805 --> 0:26:32.405
<v Speaker 2>the answer. Full time mumming for me is not the answer.

0:26:32.485 --> 0:26:36.045
<v Speaker 2>But what we've found is a beautiful balance of going

0:26:36.045 --> 0:26:38.725
<v Speaker 2>to work and I pick up Kenny from daycare at

0:26:38.765 --> 0:26:41.525
<v Speaker 2>three thirty, so my in the studio times from nine

0:26:41.565 --> 0:26:44.125
<v Speaker 2>till about three. And would I like to work a

0:26:44.165 --> 0:26:48.085
<v Speaker 2>little bit more, yes, but this is just the time

0:26:48.125 --> 0:26:49.765
<v Speaker 2>in our lives, you know. And no, I'm not with

0:26:49.805 --> 0:26:51.925
<v Speaker 2>the kids all day, but I love going to work.

0:26:51.965 --> 0:26:54.365
<v Speaker 2>It's kind of great because then from you know, like

0:26:54.405 --> 0:26:56.245
<v Speaker 2>three thirty till when they go down to bed, which

0:26:56.285 --> 0:26:58.365
<v Speaker 2>is never early enough. Yeah, we're just smucking around and

0:26:58.365 --> 0:27:00.845
<v Speaker 2>having great time. So but I don't think we've got

0:27:00.845 --> 0:27:02.685
<v Speaker 2>the right formul I don't think any parents got the

0:27:02.725 --> 0:27:05.325
<v Speaker 2>right format. Everyone's just piecing it together, honestly, and summer

0:27:05.365 --> 0:27:07.645
<v Speaker 2>week we're not. We haven't got a better formula than

0:27:07.645 --> 0:27:10.725
<v Speaker 2>anyone else. It's fucking hard, and it's fucking childcare is

0:27:10.765 --> 0:27:11.565
<v Speaker 2>fucking expensive.

0:27:12.485 --> 0:27:17.645
<v Speaker 3>What was your first significant project that came about once

0:27:17.685 --> 0:27:19.685
<v Speaker 3>you'd moved to New York, Because this all seemed to

0:27:19.685 --> 0:27:23.365
<v Speaker 3>happen quite rapidly from you leaving Australia.

0:27:24.085 --> 0:27:26.565
<v Speaker 2>It did once again, I was working with the cool

0:27:26.645 --> 0:27:30.045
<v Speaker 2>hunter so Bill Tikos. We did an exhibition in Soho

0:27:30.205 --> 0:27:33.725
<v Speaker 2>called the Trophy Room, and then that was the one

0:27:33.765 --> 0:27:37.165
<v Speaker 2>I did with him. After that exhibition, I kind of

0:27:37.165 --> 0:27:40.125
<v Speaker 2>branched out and started to do my own thing. So

0:27:40.485 --> 0:27:41.965
<v Speaker 2>I can't even tell you the dates. I could have

0:27:42.005 --> 0:27:46.045
<v Speaker 2>been twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen. From there, I kind of

0:27:46.685 --> 0:27:48.885
<v Speaker 2>was free falling a little bit because I had always

0:27:48.965 --> 0:27:51.005
<v Speaker 2>done my own I had always just done the drawings

0:27:51.325 --> 0:27:54.245
<v Speaker 2>and Bell took care of, you know, like looking after

0:27:54.285 --> 0:27:58.485
<v Speaker 2>everything else. I then was like, holy shit, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck,

0:27:58.525 --> 0:28:00.365
<v Speaker 2>what do I do? I need to do this on

0:28:00.365 --> 0:28:04.245
<v Speaker 2>my own now and so yeah, kind of I'm trying

0:28:04.285 --> 0:28:06.365
<v Speaker 2>to think how that played out. I think when you're

0:28:06.365 --> 0:28:08.645
<v Speaker 2>thrown into the deep and you just kind of figure

0:28:08.645 --> 0:28:11.125
<v Speaker 2>it out. That's where Lewis really helped step in. I

0:28:11.165 --> 0:28:13.005
<v Speaker 2>was like, I don't know how to do that stuff.

0:28:13.045 --> 0:28:15.485
<v Speaker 2>Please help. He's like, we'll figure it out. And so

0:28:15.565 --> 0:28:18.165
<v Speaker 2>we then learned how to sell things. That's when we

0:28:18.285 --> 0:28:21.165
<v Speaker 2>just started like a Shopify account and we'd sell art

0:28:21.325 --> 0:28:24.885
<v Speaker 2>just on Shopify like what you know, like these meant

0:28:24.925 --> 0:28:27.965
<v Speaker 2>for like you're meant to sell undias and t shirts

0:28:28.005 --> 0:28:31.005
<v Speaker 2>like you know, you're not meant to sell tens of thousands,

0:28:31.045 --> 0:28:32.285
<v Speaker 2>you know, and so we're like, well, how else do

0:28:32.325 --> 0:28:35.485
<v Speaker 2>we sell it? So that's kind of yeah, we had

0:28:35.485 --> 0:28:38.365
<v Speaker 2>an exhibition like let's just start a Shopify account. And

0:28:38.405 --> 0:28:40.765
<v Speaker 2>that's how it's always been, you know, like it's not

0:28:41.365 --> 0:28:42.285
<v Speaker 2>super complicated.

0:28:42.605 --> 0:28:47.045
<v Speaker 3>And so once again a maverick outside of the gallery

0:28:47.125 --> 0:28:50.925
<v Speaker 3>system because galleries, when they get hold of artists, I

0:28:50.965 --> 0:28:53.565
<v Speaker 3>mean they can also of course do amazing things for

0:28:53.725 --> 0:28:56.725
<v Speaker 3>artists yep, and bring their art to a lot of people,

0:28:57.325 --> 0:29:02.445
<v Speaker 3>but they also take a giant chunk of change often

0:29:02.525 --> 0:29:05.285
<v Speaker 3>that artists can't afford to be hated.

0:29:05.365 --> 0:29:07.325
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think it depends on the type of artist

0:29:07.445 --> 0:29:09.885
<v Speaker 2>you are, right, So I'm very realist in the fact,

0:29:09.925 --> 0:29:13.445
<v Speaker 2>like I am a commercial artist. I am fortunate to

0:29:13.445 --> 0:29:16.405
<v Speaker 2>make money from I reinvest almost all of it back

0:29:16.445 --> 0:29:19.645
<v Speaker 2>into my practice. So that's kind of how I see it,

0:29:19.685 --> 0:29:21.925
<v Speaker 2>Like it's it is a business. I run it like

0:29:21.965 --> 0:29:24.605
<v Speaker 2>a startup. That's a speed at which we work, you know.

0:29:24.765 --> 0:29:27.245
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, but there's some artists who just have no

0:29:27.405 --> 0:29:29.805
<v Speaker 2>interest in that. They're like, I just know how to create.

0:29:30.125 --> 0:29:32.285
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to schmooz and wheel and deal. I

0:29:32.325 --> 0:29:34.245
<v Speaker 2>don't want to do all that stuff. So for them,

0:29:34.285 --> 0:29:36.565
<v Speaker 2>the gallery will really work well. So it just really

0:29:36.645 --> 0:29:39.205
<v Speaker 2>you just got to figure out what's going to work

0:29:39.205 --> 0:29:39.605
<v Speaker 2>best for you.

0:29:39.685 --> 0:29:44.245
<v Speaker 1>And for you, Shopify was Shopify. What's not worked for you?

0:29:44.965 --> 0:29:48.285
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Shopify was there, And also Lewis was like, hey,

0:29:48.485 --> 0:29:50.725
<v Speaker 2>just shop Pilet's go. I'm like all right, you know,

0:29:50.805 --> 0:29:54.245
<v Speaker 2>so I was fortunate that he was more techy than

0:29:54.325 --> 0:29:57.325
<v Speaker 2>I am. I'm, you know, still just more creative. He's

0:29:57.365 --> 0:29:59.965
<v Speaker 2>more logical. Yeah, so that's kind of how I started.

0:30:00.005 --> 0:30:03.365
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, but galeries certainly have their place. I can't

0:30:03.365 --> 0:30:06.125
<v Speaker 2>discount them. I'll be working with a gallery next year

0:30:06.165 --> 0:30:09.245
<v Speaker 2>on an exhibition. But it's it's a it's a megaga,

0:30:09.725 --> 0:30:12.045
<v Speaker 2>you know what I mean, Like these are galleries that

0:30:12.125 --> 0:30:16.765
<v Speaker 2>are just mega that it's not a quote unquote normal gallery.

0:30:16.805 --> 0:30:20.045
<v Speaker 2>You know. So this is like the big it's the

0:30:20.045 --> 0:30:22.205
<v Speaker 2>big leagues, you know. It's just there's so many different

0:30:22.245 --> 0:30:25.125
<v Speaker 2>ways to be an artist, just just it doesn't look

0:30:25.165 --> 0:30:26.005
<v Speaker 2>the same for everyone.

0:30:27.125 --> 0:30:30.245
<v Speaker 3>But speaking of big leagues, then a couple of seminal

0:30:30.325 --> 0:30:33.325
<v Speaker 3>things happened, and one of the us was Kanye and

0:30:33.365 --> 0:30:37.765
<v Speaker 3>it was him on a on a dollar bill, on

0:30:37.805 --> 0:30:40.325
<v Speaker 3>a dollar bill with his face. I just want to

0:30:40.325 --> 0:30:42.365
<v Speaker 3>purpose this by saying this one Kanye was at as

0:30:42.405 --> 0:30:43.325
<v Speaker 3>prime ten years ago.

0:30:43.365 --> 0:30:46.205
<v Speaker 1>This is not the current Kanye. This is not Kanne

0:30:46.365 --> 0:30:46.885
<v Speaker 1>ten years ago.

0:30:47.605 --> 0:30:51.005
<v Speaker 2>And Kanye was back then just truly like he was

0:30:51.005 --> 0:30:53.405
<v Speaker 2>an inspiration for me as a creative, and he was

0:30:53.445 --> 0:30:55.165
<v Speaker 2>an inspiration to a lot of people. So I just

0:30:55.645 --> 0:30:58.965
<v Speaker 2>need to say that because he really was quite something.

0:30:59.405 --> 0:31:02.645
<v Speaker 3>When people look through the prism of the present at

0:31:02.685 --> 0:31:05.565
<v Speaker 3>the past, it looks very differently, it does, doesn't.

0:31:05.565 --> 0:31:10.245
<v Speaker 1>It was, Yeah, he was revolutionary. He was such a broad.

0:31:09.885 --> 0:31:13.885
<v Speaker 2>Artist, he was and he was just so creative and

0:31:13.965 --> 0:31:16.565
<v Speaker 2>so bold and I took a lot of inspiration from him,

0:31:16.605 --> 0:31:19.565
<v Speaker 2>and you know, it just so much of what he

0:31:19.645 --> 0:31:21.245
<v Speaker 2>did was so different and it was just.

0:31:21.205 --> 0:31:22.125
<v Speaker 1>Beautiful to watch.

0:31:22.525 --> 0:31:25.445
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I put him on a dollar bill and

0:31:26.005 --> 0:31:29.325
<v Speaker 2>for somehow he's found out about it and I was

0:31:29.365 --> 0:31:33.525
<v Speaker 2>able to you know, he bought it from me way

0:31:33.525 --> 0:31:33.965
<v Speaker 2>back then.

0:31:34.045 --> 0:31:38.965
<v Speaker 3>And yeah, you know, but how does Kanye Wete buy

0:31:39.045 --> 0:31:41.245
<v Speaker 3>my something from C J Henry?

0:31:41.845 --> 0:31:42.725
<v Speaker 1>Do you know what it was?

0:31:43.285 --> 0:31:46.725
<v Speaker 2>There was a I couldn't remember all the names. It

0:31:46.765 --> 0:31:49.365
<v Speaker 2>was Kim, so Kim and Kanye like they just had

0:31:49.445 --> 0:31:52.245
<v Speaker 2>now anyway I could go into the hole inner work.

0:31:53.085 --> 0:31:53.485
<v Speaker 1>It was.

0:31:53.805 --> 0:31:56.365
<v Speaker 2>It was through social media. It was through social media.

0:31:56.405 --> 0:32:00.525
<v Speaker 2>It was someone who was working with Kim. We still

0:32:00.605 --> 0:32:02.805
<v Speaker 2>chat whether they still work together or not. I think

0:32:02.805 --> 0:32:05.885
<v Speaker 2>she's the CFO or CEO of Skims. She was also

0:32:05.885 --> 0:32:08.285
<v Speaker 2>working closely with Kanye. And one thing, you know, she

0:32:08.525 --> 0:32:11.285
<v Speaker 2>was a fan of Cool Hunter. She found out about

0:32:11.325 --> 0:32:13.525
<v Speaker 2>it that way and then kind of showed it to him,

0:32:13.525 --> 0:32:16.125
<v Speaker 2>and I think that's how it happened. Yeah, but the

0:32:16.125 --> 0:32:18.605
<v Speaker 2>Internet you never really know, you never really know how

0:32:18.605 --> 0:32:21.845
<v Speaker 2>should happened. It's a beautiful place and nothing's linear. There's

0:32:21.885 --> 0:32:24.885
<v Speaker 2>no like clean lines as to how people know, we'll

0:32:24.885 --> 0:32:27.285
<v Speaker 2>find out or hear about things anymore, you know.

0:32:27.445 --> 0:32:30.445
<v Speaker 3>But even so, there was a face to face when

0:32:30.485 --> 0:32:32.885
<v Speaker 3>you hand it over the artwork.

0:32:33.325 --> 0:32:37.445
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and he was shorter than I thought, and he

0:32:37.645 --> 0:32:43.205
<v Speaker 2>was so kind and he gave me. He was very intentional.

0:32:43.925 --> 0:32:48.085
<v Speaker 2>He was very softly spoken. And this was five minutes

0:32:48.245 --> 0:32:49.925
<v Speaker 2>before he was about to go out and perform. And

0:32:50.005 --> 0:32:52.525
<v Speaker 2>it was like he had his little possy there where

0:32:52.525 --> 0:32:55.685
<v Speaker 2>did you do the transaction? This is in the Brisbane

0:32:56.085 --> 0:32:58.645
<v Speaker 2>I don't know where were you performed in Brisbane?

0:32:58.805 --> 0:33:05.445
<v Speaker 3>Like the yeah about Bood, Yeah, the entertainment center.

0:33:05.405 --> 0:33:07.765
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was you know. So then he had his

0:33:07.805 --> 0:33:10.725
<v Speaker 2>posse there with there was like five other guys in

0:33:10.765 --> 0:33:12.685
<v Speaker 2>the room and Kanye and there was like snacks.

0:33:12.765 --> 0:33:13.645
<v Speaker 1>He's like, do you want a snack?

0:33:13.685 --> 0:33:16.685
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I don't remember exactly that what I said,

0:33:16.725 --> 0:33:19.005
<v Speaker 2>but yeah, it was just like I was just so.

0:33:19.085 --> 0:33:22.885
<v Speaker 1>Sort of snacks? Does Kanye wears? I can't remember yet.

0:33:23.325 --> 0:33:25.725
<v Speaker 2>And I remember there being orange juice and water, I

0:33:25.725 --> 0:33:29.205
<v Speaker 2>remember that, I remember. Yeah, And then I was sitting

0:33:29.245 --> 0:33:31.605
<v Speaker 2>in the while I sitting in the corridor waiting to go,

0:33:31.685 --> 0:33:33.005
<v Speaker 2>and Kim walked past.

0:33:33.125 --> 0:33:36.485
<v Speaker 1>I was like, I just waited so casual. I was like, wow, yeah,

0:33:36.525 --> 0:33:37.845
<v Speaker 1>so but that was years ago.

0:33:37.885 --> 0:33:40.845
<v Speaker 2>But I'll be honest, I'm not I'm not a celebrity hunter,

0:33:41.005 --> 0:33:44.045
<v Speaker 2>nor does that interest me, nor is that a big

0:33:44.125 --> 0:33:45.205
<v Speaker 2>deal to me.

0:33:45.445 --> 0:33:47.445
<v Speaker 1>It's just a thing that happened.

0:33:47.645 --> 0:33:51.125
<v Speaker 2>And you know, like there's so many other people who

0:33:51.405 --> 0:33:54.445
<v Speaker 2>have bought my art that it's just not that interesting

0:33:54.445 --> 0:33:55.045
<v Speaker 2>to talk about.

0:33:55.125 --> 0:33:58.285
<v Speaker 1>You know, Like, however, you know what it is.

0:33:58.885 --> 0:34:03.605
<v Speaker 3>It's this validation because he was an artist and he

0:34:03.725 --> 0:34:05.445
<v Speaker 3>was a collector of great art.

0:34:05.805 --> 0:34:08.085
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this was at the beginning of my career, and

0:34:08.125 --> 0:34:10.525
<v Speaker 2>I think there was an l and of this is

0:34:10.525 --> 0:34:13.765
<v Speaker 2>where Bill was so great. He was such a brilliant marketer,

0:34:14.205 --> 0:34:16.565
<v Speaker 2>and he was like, this is just great publicity. We

0:34:16.725 --> 0:34:18.925
<v Speaker 2>have to get that, like people need to know about this.

0:34:19.005 --> 0:34:21.165
<v Speaker 2>And I think that was really smart from his end.

0:34:21.205 --> 0:34:23.525
<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't have done anything about it, but you know,

0:34:24.405 --> 0:34:26.165
<v Speaker 2>he was able to kind of I think place that

0:34:26.285 --> 0:34:29.365
<v Speaker 2>in particular, press things that that happened, and so that's

0:34:29.685 --> 0:34:30.805
<v Speaker 2>kind of how it all played up.

0:34:31.325 --> 0:34:34.925
<v Speaker 3>It's one thing to say you don't need or require

0:34:34.965 --> 0:34:38.445
<v Speaker 3>the external validation, and in fact, probably to do anything

0:34:38.565 --> 0:34:41.725
<v Speaker 3>that anyone does, you have to have the most important

0:34:41.805 --> 0:34:45.205
<v Speaker 3>vision that you have is your own. Yeah, but nonetheless

0:34:45.325 --> 0:34:48.085
<v Speaker 3>it's so nice to have that validation.

0:34:48.205 --> 0:34:50.805
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, especially so early on, you know, when you are

0:34:50.925 --> 0:34:54.325
<v Speaker 2>double second guessing yourself and you're not too sure, and

0:34:54.445 --> 0:34:57.405
<v Speaker 2>just for someone of that caliber to have a piece

0:34:57.765 --> 0:35:00.765
<v Speaker 2>was really special, you know. So yeah, it's certainly catapult

0:35:00.805 --> 0:35:04.805
<v Speaker 2>and certainly changed a few things. But I don't know

0:35:06.165 --> 0:35:08.285
<v Speaker 2>there's something that happened. But I mean, at the end

0:35:08.285 --> 0:35:10.325
<v Speaker 2>of the day, the cele ready buys your art. You

0:35:10.405 --> 0:35:13.245
<v Speaker 2>haven't made it, you know, like by no means was

0:35:13.245 --> 0:35:16.365
<v Speaker 2>like cool, I'm done here and get concent like, you know,

0:35:16.405 --> 0:35:18.725
<v Speaker 2>you're still got to do the work. So it's like

0:35:19.125 --> 0:35:22.525
<v Speaker 2>whilst good things happen, and if any good things happened,

0:35:22.525 --> 0:35:26.325
<v Speaker 2>I don't spend much time like walling around thinking about it,

0:35:26.365 --> 0:35:28.125
<v Speaker 2>like you're still going to go to work the next day.

0:35:28.325 --> 0:35:29.365
<v Speaker 1>Interesting, you know.

0:35:29.405 --> 0:35:31.925
<v Speaker 3>I also I think you seem like that when bad

0:35:31.965 --> 0:35:34.605
<v Speaker 3>things happen as well, Yeah, because I'm thinking about the

0:35:34.645 --> 0:35:38.405
<v Speaker 3>bad things of like the copyright infringing, yeah, and that

0:35:38.525 --> 0:35:40.165
<v Speaker 3>whole series, and.

0:35:40.125 --> 0:35:42.805
<v Speaker 2>You know, yeah, so copyright infringe it was another really

0:35:42.965 --> 0:35:47.365
<v Speaker 2>interesting thing that happened. I had done drawings of Andy

0:35:47.365 --> 0:35:50.365
<v Speaker 2>Warhol's poloids and I'd crumpled them up and draw on

0:35:50.405 --> 0:35:52.165
<v Speaker 2>them and put them on T shirts. And we were

0:35:52.165 --> 0:35:54.605
<v Speaker 2>going to do a release online of the T shirts

0:35:54.885 --> 0:35:58.125
<v Speaker 2>on our little dinky shopper by account and a couple

0:35:58.205 --> 0:35:59.885
<v Speaker 2>I think an hour before the release, we got an

0:35:59.885 --> 0:36:03.285
<v Speaker 2>email from the Warhole Foundation saying, hey, you can't do this,

0:36:03.925 --> 0:36:05.845
<v Speaker 2>We'll sue you or whatever. You know, a bit of

0:36:05.845 --> 0:36:08.045
<v Speaker 2>a season desistent at that time, I'd never had anything.

0:36:08.125 --> 0:36:11.125
<v Speaker 2>I was like panicking white, a little bit panicky. I

0:36:11.125 --> 0:36:12.445
<v Speaker 2>was like, holy shit, hold of shit, we have to

0:36:12.445 --> 0:36:14.125
<v Speaker 2>pull it now. I would have gone ahead with the

0:36:14.165 --> 0:36:16.485
<v Speaker 2>relies and not even cared, but back then I'm like,

0:36:16.805 --> 0:36:19.845
<v Speaker 2>oh shit. So we didn't do the release, and then

0:36:19.965 --> 0:36:21.685
<v Speaker 2>we had all these T shirts and I was like,

0:36:21.725 --> 0:36:22.805
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to throw them away.

0:36:23.165 --> 0:36:23.845
<v Speaker 1>But part of.

0:36:23.805 --> 0:36:26.325
<v Speaker 2>The seasoned list was like you have to destroy the inventory.

0:36:26.365 --> 0:36:29.765
<v Speaker 2>I was like, well, can't we just like dispose of

0:36:29.805 --> 0:36:31.965
<v Speaker 2>them in a more creative way. So we boxed them

0:36:32.045 --> 0:36:34.165
<v Speaker 2>up and read boxes and dropped them around the city

0:36:34.205 --> 0:36:37.445
<v Speaker 2>and posted the locations on social media. I'm like, well,

0:36:38.045 --> 0:36:39.685
<v Speaker 2>they're going to end up in New York City trash

0:36:39.725 --> 0:36:41.885
<v Speaker 2>because like, they don't fuck around the trash in New York,

0:36:41.965 --> 0:36:44.165
<v Speaker 2>like they'll just pick it up and keep going. But yeah,

0:36:44.165 --> 0:36:45.725
<v Speaker 2>and then it turned into this thing, you.

0:36:45.685 --> 0:36:50.965
<v Speaker 3>Know, yes, a brilliant a brilliant thing, like a worldwide

0:36:51.605 --> 0:36:52.805
<v Speaker 3>scavenger hunt.

0:36:53.205 --> 0:36:56.165
<v Speaker 2>But like that, to me, we weren't going out to

0:36:56.285 --> 0:36:59.325
<v Speaker 2>do that. It was just like, how do you just

0:36:59.405 --> 0:37:04.925
<v Speaker 2>do something? I think I'm relatively creative and relatively bullish,

0:37:05.045 --> 0:37:06.925
<v Speaker 2>so you know, if you put those two things together,

0:37:07.005 --> 0:37:09.965
<v Speaker 2>I have little to no issue. You know. Yes, I

0:37:10.005 --> 0:37:12.525
<v Speaker 2>was nervous about the lawsuit, but I was like, let's

0:37:12.565 --> 0:37:14.685
<v Speaker 2>just dispose of them in a fun way. Like there

0:37:14.725 --> 0:37:17.605
<v Speaker 2>was no rule saying you can't be creative with disposal.

0:37:17.685 --> 0:37:23.285
<v Speaker 2>So I was like, Paul, no, let's do that.

0:37:23.285 --> 0:37:24.565
<v Speaker 1>That's not all to our chat.

0:37:25.205 --> 0:37:29.405
<v Speaker 3>Coming up, I get to surprise Cej with a story

0:37:29.485 --> 0:37:33.885
<v Speaker 3>about a young fan of hers and it inspires her

0:37:33.965 --> 0:37:36.885
<v Speaker 3>to make a very special announcement that you are not

0:37:37.045 --> 0:37:42.925
<v Speaker 3>going to want to miss. I'm going to share something

0:37:42.965 --> 0:37:46.765
<v Speaker 3>with you now, Okay, A bit of feedback from a

0:37:46.805 --> 0:37:50.525
<v Speaker 3>girlfriend of mine, one of her really good friends. And

0:37:50.565 --> 0:37:53.925
<v Speaker 3>so we were living in Italy in twenty nineteen, and

0:37:54.005 --> 0:37:57.525
<v Speaker 3>I remember back here in Australia, friends of ours were

0:37:57.565 --> 0:37:58.765
<v Speaker 3>saying that you were there.

0:37:58.765 --> 0:38:00.645
<v Speaker 1>It must have been like September or whatever.

0:38:00.765 --> 0:38:04.085
<v Speaker 3>You were here and you're going to do the copyright

0:38:04.125 --> 0:38:08.085
<v Speaker 3>infringement and it was a frenzy amongst the people that

0:38:08.165 --> 0:38:12.685
<v Speaker 3>knew frenzy. So this is a message from Tiff dam

0:38:12.765 --> 0:38:14.965
<v Speaker 3>her name is. She said, Hi, Kate, so excited for

0:38:15.005 --> 0:38:17.845
<v Speaker 3>your no Filter with CJ. Hendry The Girls. She's got

0:38:17.845 --> 0:38:21.005
<v Speaker 3>two daughters, the Girls, and I have been following her

0:38:21.165 --> 0:38:25.885
<v Speaker 3>art for years. Back in September twenty nineteen school holidays,

0:38:25.925 --> 0:38:29.405
<v Speaker 3>she came to Melbourne to do the copyright infringement scavenger hunt.

0:38:29.765 --> 0:38:31.605
<v Speaker 3>Seemed like a good way to fill up a day

0:38:31.605 --> 0:38:34.965
<v Speaker 3>in the holidays, so got the kids all excited and

0:38:35.045 --> 0:38:40.405
<v Speaker 3>mapped out our game plan. Frankie eleven at the time.

0:38:41.485 --> 0:38:45.245
<v Speaker 3>She decided to choose an iconic venue and wait, rather

0:38:45.285 --> 0:38:49.165
<v Speaker 3>than chase clues. Very clever give out clues to where

0:38:49.205 --> 0:38:52.925
<v Speaker 3>things were going to be. Mcg was decided and she

0:38:53.045 --> 0:38:57.165
<v Speaker 3>found a spot she thought might be it. Two hours later,

0:38:58.285 --> 0:39:06.845
<v Speaker 3>Frankie screamed, Mum, she's here. Some other guy beat us

0:39:06.965 --> 0:39:10.165
<v Speaker 3>to the box. So they were both running full pelt

0:39:10.445 --> 0:39:12.965
<v Speaker 3>for the red box for what happened, But get a

0:39:12.965 --> 0:39:18.725
<v Speaker 3>load of this, Yeah, he saw that Frankie was heartbroken,

0:39:19.845 --> 0:39:22.725
<v Speaker 3>and he split the box with us.

0:39:22.925 --> 0:39:25.805
<v Speaker 2>Oh a true icon, A true icon.

0:39:26.245 --> 0:39:29.085
<v Speaker 3>Frankie's had it framed in her room until yesterday when

0:39:29.085 --> 0:39:31.725
<v Speaker 3>we dropped it at a framers to be professionally mounted.

0:39:32.165 --> 0:39:35.005
<v Speaker 3>Thank you, CJ for one of the best memories and

0:39:35.085 --> 0:39:40.325
<v Speaker 3>for inspiring my girls to draw. That's tiff dam Oh

0:39:40.405 --> 0:39:42.725
<v Speaker 3>my god, Kate, can we share numbers?

0:39:42.725 --> 0:39:44.965
<v Speaker 1>The beautiful guy, I don't even know what his name is.

0:39:45.005 --> 0:39:47.165
<v Speaker 2>I'll track him down. Don't worry, we'll track him down.

0:39:47.805 --> 0:39:49.285
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's divine what.

0:39:49.605 --> 0:39:52.285
<v Speaker 1>You did, now, you know.

0:39:52.685 --> 0:39:55.245
<v Speaker 3>I mean, people can say art has a meaning or

0:39:55.325 --> 0:39:58.285
<v Speaker 3>art doesn't have a meaning. You know, I know that

0:39:58.365 --> 0:40:01.485
<v Speaker 3>your stuff has maybe been trivialized in the past, your

0:40:02.085 --> 0:40:07.685
<v Speaker 3>God forbid. But what you've what you actually did there

0:40:08.605 --> 0:40:15.085
<v Speaker 3>was so extraordinary that you made the power of you

0:40:15.845 --> 0:40:20.165
<v Speaker 3>brought them together. And the guy shared with a little

0:40:20.205 --> 0:40:23.085
<v Speaker 3>girl the ultimate price.

0:40:23.645 --> 0:40:26.405
<v Speaker 2>What a delicious man. Oh my god. And look at

0:40:26.405 --> 0:40:30.045
<v Speaker 2>that delicious little god that is she's sharing that story, Kate.

0:40:30.125 --> 0:40:33.725
<v Speaker 2>That's really lovely. That like makes each here up. That's

0:40:33.845 --> 0:40:37.005
<v Speaker 2>so I know, that's so special because it's like I'm

0:40:37.045 --> 0:40:39.405
<v Speaker 2>just here drawing, just doing the thing, and I don't

0:40:39.485 --> 0:40:43.445
<v Speaker 2>think like when we're making or building a concept, like

0:40:43.485 --> 0:40:46.965
<v Speaker 2>I'm in all honesty not thinking of what people are

0:40:47.125 --> 0:40:49.445
<v Speaker 2>going to experience, because that's not my job, you know,

0:40:49.565 --> 0:40:51.405
<v Speaker 2>like you know what people think about me or my

0:40:51.525 --> 0:40:53.725
<v Speaker 2>art is not my business. We just build it and

0:40:53.725 --> 0:40:56.285
<v Speaker 2>then they come and then they experience it how everyone's

0:40:56.325 --> 0:40:58.605
<v Speaker 2>going to experience it in their own way. And I

0:40:58.605 --> 0:41:00.845
<v Speaker 2>think that's really special. And what we were talked about

0:41:00.885 --> 0:41:04.165
<v Speaker 2>earlier is making art accessible. I think what's brought me

0:41:04.365 --> 0:41:07.965
<v Speaker 2>more joy than anything is not selling expensive art, like

0:41:08.005 --> 0:41:11.605
<v Speaker 2>that's that's something that happened, but it's building exhibitions is

0:41:11.605 --> 0:41:14.045
<v Speaker 2>always a free component, very like most of the time

0:41:14.045 --> 0:41:16.445
<v Speaker 2>the exhibitions are free. If they're not free, they're like

0:41:16.445 --> 0:41:20.085
<v Speaker 2>a five dollar entry or something as accessible as possible.

0:41:20.205 --> 0:41:23.805
<v Speaker 2>And like being able to build something big and then

0:41:24.485 --> 0:41:28.365
<v Speaker 2>allow people who you know, they might not be a

0:41:28.365 --> 0:41:30.765
<v Speaker 2>position to buy art just to be a part of it,

0:41:31.085 --> 0:41:33.765
<v Speaker 2>Like that's really special because, like you said, I always

0:41:33.805 --> 0:41:36.605
<v Speaker 2>feel really uncomfortable going into galleries. I feel looked down

0:41:36.685 --> 0:41:38.765
<v Speaker 2>upon and I'm like, oh shit, they know that we're

0:41:38.805 --> 0:41:41.645
<v Speaker 2>not rich. It's the same walking into luxury brands. And

0:41:41.685 --> 0:41:45.485
<v Speaker 2>I think in my early days of working at Chanelle,

0:41:45.485 --> 0:41:47.885
<v Speaker 2>I really went out of my way to just make everyone.

0:41:48.285 --> 0:41:50.845
<v Speaker 2>I know they weren't coming into buy ten thousand dollar handbag,

0:41:50.885 --> 0:41:53.405
<v Speaker 2>but just give them a great experience, because like, who

0:41:53.445 --> 0:41:55.765
<v Speaker 2>am I? I'm like, I'm owning less money than you,

0:41:56.165 --> 0:41:58.645
<v Speaker 2>so like, come on in, let's try a handbag on.

0:41:58.725 --> 0:41:58.885
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:41:58.965 --> 0:42:01.485
<v Speaker 2>So it's so the same thing goes with art. You

0:42:01.525 --> 0:42:03.685
<v Speaker 2>can do big things and you don't need to be

0:42:03.845 --> 0:42:04.725
<v Speaker 2>nasty about it.

0:42:06.325 --> 0:42:07.685
<v Speaker 1>That's so true.

0:42:08.325 --> 0:42:10.765
<v Speaker 2>I feel very uncomfortable with the high end art world.

0:42:10.805 --> 0:42:13.885
<v Speaker 2>I don't like how it is. It's always going to

0:42:13.885 --> 0:42:15.885
<v Speaker 2>be that way. It's that way for a reason, but

0:42:16.005 --> 0:42:18.325
<v Speaker 2>I just I've always felt uncomfortable by it, and I've

0:42:18.365 --> 0:42:21.845
<v Speaker 2>always been made to feel small and uncomfortable. I'm like,

0:42:21.885 --> 0:42:24.725
<v Speaker 2>why why do you need to feel uncomfortable around art?

0:42:24.805 --> 0:42:26.965
<v Speaker 1>Like that's not how it's meant to be. What do

0:42:27.045 --> 0:42:28.445
<v Speaker 1>you think that's based on?

0:42:28.565 --> 0:42:33.045
<v Speaker 3>Do you think that's as it's defending.

0:42:32.485 --> 0:42:36.605
<v Speaker 1>The fortress of power? I think it's an old school mentality.

0:42:36.885 --> 0:42:38.925
<v Speaker 2>To sell expensive things, you have to.

0:42:38.885 --> 0:42:42.205
<v Speaker 3>Be rude and not rude, but you know, like you

0:42:42.245 --> 0:42:44.845
<v Speaker 3>know that luxury the best examples when you walk into

0:42:44.925 --> 0:42:47.845
<v Speaker 3>expensive stores it's like they're floating at They're not particularly

0:42:47.925 --> 0:42:48.725
<v Speaker 3>happy or friendly.

0:42:48.845 --> 0:42:51.925
<v Speaker 2>You're like, why I think it's changing, Kate. I think

0:42:51.965 --> 0:42:55.165
<v Speaker 2>things are changing. I think the age like people are

0:42:55.165 --> 0:42:58.765
<v Speaker 2>not in You don't need to make the experience uncomfortable

0:42:58.925 --> 0:43:01.405
<v Speaker 2>to sell things at a higher price point, Like it

0:43:01.445 --> 0:43:04.965
<v Speaker 2>can be a beautiful, friendly experience, you know, like that's

0:43:04.965 --> 0:43:08.285
<v Speaker 2>what we're learning. It can be accessible. Like my brand

0:43:08.365 --> 0:43:11.565
<v Speaker 2>has things that are low, medium, high, you know, not

0:43:11.605 --> 0:43:14.045
<v Speaker 2>everyone's coming in for the higher stuff. I certainly wouldn't

0:43:14.045 --> 0:43:16.685
<v Speaker 2>buy my expensive art. It's way too expensive, you know,

0:43:17.445 --> 0:43:20.765
<v Speaker 2>thanks to everyone who does. But yeah, I'm a terrible investment.

0:43:21.965 --> 0:43:25.925
<v Speaker 3>But now you must have noticed, well I'm assuming that

0:43:25.965 --> 0:43:28.885
<v Speaker 3>this has happened, is that you were kind of outside

0:43:28.965 --> 0:43:33.125
<v Speaker 3>the mainstream art world for a long time. Now the

0:43:33.165 --> 0:43:36.525
<v Speaker 3>mainstream art world is coming to you.

0:43:38.165 --> 0:43:40.645
<v Speaker 2>Do you know why? I think it is art follows

0:43:40.685 --> 0:43:44.525
<v Speaker 2>money and it's a really gross it's really gross. But

0:43:45.045 --> 0:43:49.205
<v Speaker 2>there's only so long that the like the bigger, higher

0:43:49.325 --> 0:43:51.925
<v Speaker 2>end art world. I just this is just the way

0:43:51.965 --> 0:43:55.205
<v Speaker 2>things are moving. And like I said before, like works

0:43:55.525 --> 0:43:57.965
<v Speaker 2>above two hundred thousand, above a million are not moving

0:43:57.965 --> 0:44:01.245
<v Speaker 2>at the volume that they once did, and the people

0:44:01.325 --> 0:44:05.765
<v Speaker 2>and gallerists are interested in this different group of people

0:44:05.765 --> 0:44:08.325
<v Speaker 2>who are buying art. They don't need to be interested

0:44:08.365 --> 0:44:10.805
<v Speaker 2>in warholes. They might be interested in other artists that

0:44:10.805 --> 0:44:14.965
<v Speaker 2>they've found on Etsy, your Instagram or whatever that might be.

0:44:15.005 --> 0:44:16.485
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's changing shift.

0:44:16.725 --> 0:44:20.725
<v Speaker 1>They're like, we can share ten thousand such flowers. Yeah,

0:44:21.125 --> 0:44:22.525
<v Speaker 1>of your guards exactly.

0:44:22.645 --> 0:44:25.045
<v Speaker 2>So it's like, you know, things are changing and the

0:44:25.085 --> 0:44:29.525
<v Speaker 2>market's changing, and being accessible and friendly is a good thing,

0:44:29.645 --> 0:44:33.765
<v Speaker 2>you know, Like it's not about being unattainable and awkward.

0:44:33.845 --> 0:44:35.885
<v Speaker 1>That's just not relevant anymore.

0:44:36.845 --> 0:44:40.205
<v Speaker 3>But I do think there's a certain purity to what

0:44:40.245 --> 0:44:44.725
<v Speaker 3>you do very kind, Yeah, I just do, or a

0:44:44.725 --> 0:44:48.325
<v Speaker 3>certain integrity or whatever. And I think maybe just because

0:44:48.725 --> 0:44:54.205
<v Speaker 3>it sort of comes so from yourself, I'm curious about

0:44:54.205 --> 0:44:57.885
<v Speaker 3>how then when you get these other attendant you know,

0:44:58.005 --> 0:45:01.325
<v Speaker 3>when you're offered all the bounty of the world and

0:45:01.365 --> 0:45:06.885
<v Speaker 3>the accolades and the knighthood of revered artists, Like, how.

0:45:06.805 --> 0:45:08.405
<v Speaker 1>Do you keep your channel clear?

0:45:09.325 --> 0:45:13.165
<v Speaker 2>I think that's so funny that even comes up. It's

0:45:13.285 --> 0:45:16.245
<v Speaker 2>just the channel clear is like if you get complacent

0:45:16.605 --> 0:45:18.845
<v Speaker 2>and you think you've made it, that's like the end.

0:45:18.885 --> 0:45:21.285
<v Speaker 1>That's the end. Wrap up shop, you.

0:45:21.245 --> 0:45:22.805
<v Speaker 2>Know what I mean. It's like we've still there's so

0:45:22.925 --> 0:45:25.445
<v Speaker 2>much to do, Like there's so much to do, We're

0:45:25.485 --> 0:45:28.525
<v Speaker 2>so busy doing stuff, like not for a second are

0:45:28.525 --> 0:45:31.685
<v Speaker 2>we sitting down or am I sitting down to say joh,

0:45:31.805 --> 0:45:32.605
<v Speaker 2>jolly good job?

0:45:32.765 --> 0:45:35.245
<v Speaker 1>Like it kiss a shit, shut the fuck up, like

0:45:35.725 --> 0:45:37.925
<v Speaker 1>keep get to work, like why are you late?

0:45:38.285 --> 0:45:40.525
<v Speaker 2>You know what I mean? Like that's so it's just

0:45:40.805 --> 0:45:43.605
<v Speaker 2>I find that a really useless way to think and be.

0:45:44.005 --> 0:45:46.765
<v Speaker 2>And you would have seen it a million times everyone has.

0:45:46.805 --> 0:45:50.405
<v Speaker 2>It's like people get an inch of notoriety and then

0:45:50.565 --> 0:45:51.845
<v Speaker 2>they take a step back.

0:45:51.685 --> 0:45:53.965
<v Speaker 1>And then they gone, You're like where was where was

0:45:53.965 --> 0:45:54.405
<v Speaker 1>that person?

0:45:54.525 --> 0:45:56.565
<v Speaker 2>You know? And it's like, well, because they got lazy,

0:45:56.605 --> 0:46:00.085
<v Speaker 2>they've got complacent. You know. I'm a worker. I love working.

0:46:00.845 --> 0:46:03.965
<v Speaker 2>Work brings me so much joy being busy doing something.

0:46:04.485 --> 0:46:08.525
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't even need to be particularly aggressible, being just pottering.

0:46:08.765 --> 0:46:13.525
<v Speaker 2>I love always doing something, doing a craft, Like you know,

0:46:13.765 --> 0:46:16.045
<v Speaker 2>we're always doing something in that studio.

0:46:16.645 --> 0:46:19.325
<v Speaker 3>I want you to do even though it doesn't matter

0:46:19.365 --> 0:46:21.565
<v Speaker 3>what I want you to do, but I just love

0:46:21.685 --> 0:46:22.605
<v Speaker 3>you to keep.

0:46:22.405 --> 0:46:23.405
<v Speaker 1>Doing what you're doing.

0:46:23.605 --> 0:46:26.085
<v Speaker 3>I hope so if one day you decide again to

0:46:26.125 --> 0:46:27.845
<v Speaker 3>do another copyright infringement.

0:46:27.925 --> 0:46:30.085
<v Speaker 1>Oh we might bring it back. Gosh, you'd make people

0:46:30.485 --> 0:46:33.845
<v Speaker 1>let's do it? Why what would you? Yeah, because you've

0:46:33.845 --> 0:46:36.005
<v Speaker 1>asked so nicely, why.

0:46:35.845 --> 0:46:39.165
<v Speaker 2>Don't I just say, because you've asked, just with your

0:46:39.205 --> 0:46:42.245
<v Speaker 2>best ask, why don't I just say, yeah, fuck it,

0:46:42.245 --> 0:46:43.165
<v Speaker 2>will do it next year?

0:46:43.325 --> 0:46:43.925
<v Speaker 1>How about that?

0:46:44.245 --> 0:46:47.925
<v Speaker 3>And you can hold me to it for astrata and

0:46:47.965 --> 0:46:50.885
<v Speaker 3>then anyone this podcast said, but you said, and then

0:46:50.885 --> 0:46:51.565
<v Speaker 3>you can hold me to it.

0:46:51.725 --> 0:46:54.125
<v Speaker 1>Why not let's do it? Yes, yeah, that sounds like

0:46:54.245 --> 0:46:56.285
<v Speaker 1>that's right. And then I'll be like, she's not taking

0:46:56.325 --> 0:46:58.485
<v Speaker 1>my course? Why not?

0:46:58.685 --> 0:47:00.725
<v Speaker 2>Like that's what I mean, Like we don't plan to

0:47:00.765 --> 0:47:02.925
<v Speaker 2>for a head, I'm like, fuck it. Give the people

0:47:02.925 --> 0:47:05.205
<v Speaker 2>what they want. If they want a copyright infringement. Copyright

0:47:05.205 --> 0:47:06.405
<v Speaker 2>infringement is what they'll get.

0:47:06.965 --> 0:47:10.165
<v Speaker 1>Why not infringe your way, baby, CJ.

0:47:10.325 --> 0:47:14.805
<v Speaker 3>What I am curious about is and because your technique

0:47:14.325 --> 0:47:20.565
<v Speaker 3>of your hyperrealism of making things look it's almost magical

0:47:20.645 --> 0:47:23.645
<v Speaker 3>that you look at something go but surely that's liquid

0:47:23.685 --> 0:47:26.525
<v Speaker 3>and it's not it's flat on paper. I know people

0:47:26.605 --> 0:47:29.085
<v Speaker 3>like to say your art is amazing, that it is,

0:47:32.405 --> 0:47:36.285
<v Speaker 3>but how do you feel about AI? Because you know

0:47:36.485 --> 0:47:40.525
<v Speaker 3>somewhere someone's loaded all your art works up and there's

0:47:41.085 --> 0:47:45.205
<v Speaker 3>there's some robots somewhere going I can see J Hendry like,

0:47:45.285 --> 0:47:46.245
<v Speaker 3>so I use.

0:47:46.165 --> 0:47:49.205
<v Speaker 2>AI to help come up with you know, mood boards

0:47:49.245 --> 0:47:51.685
<v Speaker 2>or concepts and things like that. I think AI is

0:47:51.725 --> 0:47:54.805
<v Speaker 2>a beautiful tool to use, and if people want to

0:47:54.845 --> 0:47:58.805
<v Speaker 2>make fake CJ. Hendries and sign them, go for it,

0:47:59.245 --> 0:48:02.085
<v Speaker 2>Like it doesn't bother me. Certainly doesn't bother me in

0:48:02.125 --> 0:48:06.205
<v Speaker 2>the slightest. I think AI what AI can't do. AI

0:48:06.325 --> 0:48:12.485
<v Speaker 2>can't build your building. AI can't make, you know, make

0:48:12.525 --> 0:48:14.845
<v Speaker 2>it a real drawing on the piece, but they can

0:48:14.885 --> 0:48:17.685
<v Speaker 2>do a print out. They can do a rendering of

0:48:18.085 --> 0:48:20.125
<v Speaker 2>what wasn't original, you know what I mean. So it's

0:48:20.165 --> 0:48:23.445
<v Speaker 2>like it's like people can make fake Oma's handbags, but

0:48:23.485 --> 0:48:24.525
<v Speaker 2>it's still not the real one.

0:48:24.605 --> 0:48:25.805
<v Speaker 1>So it's like, if.

0:48:25.725 --> 0:48:29.045
<v Speaker 2>People want to just do an AIC Jane Framant, I'm like,

0:48:29.685 --> 0:48:32.445
<v Speaker 2>go for it, Like it's just doesn't bother me, you know,

0:48:33.085 --> 0:48:34.805
<v Speaker 2>and I asked it just a beautiful tool. But I

0:48:34.845 --> 0:48:38.045
<v Speaker 2>think building things in reality is now more interesting than ever,

0:48:38.405 --> 0:48:40.405
<v Speaker 2>you know, like not just the drawing side, but when

0:48:40.405 --> 0:48:43.805
<v Speaker 2>we're building bigger exhibitions and concepts, Like sometimes people look

0:48:43.805 --> 0:48:45.485
<v Speaker 2>at the photos that are like, oh my god, Like I

0:48:45.525 --> 0:48:47.885
<v Speaker 2>think last year we built a swimming pool in the desert,

0:48:48.165 --> 0:48:52.085
<v Speaker 2>which was a fucking clusterfug but it looks like AI

0:48:52.445 --> 0:48:54.725
<v Speaker 2>like because it's like that swimming pool is not meant

0:48:54.765 --> 0:48:57.045
<v Speaker 2>to be in the middle of nowhere. So we're kind

0:48:57.045 --> 0:49:00.365
<v Speaker 2>of my whole prep pre Like, my premise for building

0:49:00.445 --> 0:49:04.445
<v Speaker 2>these exhibitions is kind of building these artificial realities so

0:49:04.485 --> 0:49:06.965
<v Speaker 2>people can walk through them and experience them in real life.

0:49:07.205 --> 0:49:09.085
<v Speaker 2>So that's really important to me. So, yeah, you can

0:49:09.085 --> 0:49:11.805
<v Speaker 2>build something online all day long, but we were just

0:49:11.845 --> 0:49:14.085
<v Speaker 2>talking about before, like shopping in a shopping center. It's

0:49:14.125 --> 0:49:17.765
<v Speaker 2>like you can shop online, but doing things with people

0:49:18.405 --> 0:49:21.805
<v Speaker 2>and going to an exhibition is so important, you know.

0:49:21.965 --> 0:49:25.165
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, you could buy my ard online, but going

0:49:25.205 --> 0:49:26.885
<v Speaker 2>and experiencing it it's a different thing.

0:49:27.805 --> 0:49:28.325
<v Speaker 1>I must say.

0:49:28.325 --> 0:49:31.085
<v Speaker 3>There would be a delicious irony if you had to

0:49:31.165 --> 0:49:33.805
<v Speaker 3>sue AI for copyright infringement.

0:49:34.325 --> 0:49:38.645
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I never would n Oh my god, Kate,

0:49:38.685 --> 0:49:42.405
<v Speaker 2>You've given me an idea. What are I like, do

0:49:42.485 --> 0:49:46.165
<v Speaker 2>a cj AI and then I rip it all.

0:49:46.765 --> 0:49:50.125
<v Speaker 1>I don't know there's something in there that copyright Next

0:49:50.165 --> 0:49:51.925
<v Speaker 1>year Infinity Mirrors.

0:49:52.685 --> 0:49:55.245
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there we go so that there's something in that.

0:49:55.445 --> 0:49:58.805
<v Speaker 2>So I don't know, or maybe I'll just oh, here's one.

0:49:58.845 --> 0:50:01.445
<v Speaker 2>This will be really easy for me. I'll just do

0:50:01.565 --> 0:50:04.565
<v Speaker 2>AI cjs and try and flog them as originals and

0:50:04.605 --> 0:50:06.005
<v Speaker 2>see if anyone can tell the difference.

0:50:06.085 --> 0:50:08.765
<v Speaker 1>There you go, there go, and then I'll buy one

0:50:08.765 --> 0:50:16.125
<v Speaker 1>and I'll I don't know.

0:50:16.205 --> 0:50:18.885
<v Speaker 2>I just think, Kate, like, this is the world, this

0:50:18.925 --> 0:50:21.365
<v Speaker 2>is where we live, and you just work with it.

0:50:21.445 --> 0:50:24.285
<v Speaker 2>Like people, you can fight against stuff while you're wasting

0:50:24.285 --> 0:50:24.805
<v Speaker 2>your energy.

0:50:25.165 --> 0:50:27.485
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's not like what we're going to shut.

0:50:27.325 --> 0:50:28.525
<v Speaker 2>Down AI, noing on.

0:50:28.565 --> 0:50:30.925
<v Speaker 1>It's a beautiful thing. Just use it, embrace it and

0:50:30.965 --> 0:50:36.805
<v Speaker 1>get on with it. That was CJ.

0:50:37.045 --> 0:50:43.365
<v Speaker 3>Hendry, an utter Australian delight, as delightful as the Lamington,

0:50:43.845 --> 0:50:49.165
<v Speaker 3>no fuss, no ego, just head down, bum up, making

0:50:49.325 --> 0:50:53.965
<v Speaker 3>extraordinary things happen, and somehow kind of making them feel easy.

0:50:54.925 --> 0:50:58.405
<v Speaker 3>What struck me most about CJ is in a world,

0:50:58.525 --> 0:51:02.325
<v Speaker 3>the art world, that can be so intimidating or exclusive,

0:51:03.405 --> 0:51:07.485
<v Speaker 3>it's her refusal to play by anyone else's rules. She's

0:51:07.525 --> 0:51:10.445
<v Speaker 3>not trying to be accepted by the art world because

0:51:10.485 --> 0:51:15.005
<v Speaker 3>she's too busy building her own. The executive producer of

0:51:15.045 --> 0:51:19.125
<v Speaker 3>No Filter is Nama Brown. The senior producer is bre Player.

0:51:19.765 --> 0:51:23.325
<v Speaker 3>Sound design and editing by Jacob Brown and I am

0:51:23.365 --> 0:51:24.965
<v Speaker 3>your host, Kate lane Brook.

0:51:25.565 --> 0:51:27.045
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for sharing