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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mama Maya acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on.

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Speaker 2: I think an hour before the release, we've got an

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Speaker 2: email from the warholl Foundation saying, Hey, you can't do this,

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Speaker 2: We'll sue you or whatever. A bit of a season

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Speaker 2: to syst oh at White a little bit panicky. I

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Speaker 2: was like, holish, a lot of shit.

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Speaker 1: We have to pull it. Hi, I'm Kate Lane brook

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Speaker 1: Welcome to No Filter.

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Speaker 3: C J. Hendry is one of the most successful and

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Speaker 3: sought after Australian artists working today. But she didn't go

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Speaker 3: to art school. She wasn't discovered by a gallery. In fact,

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Speaker 3: for a long time she wasn't even represented by a gallery,

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Speaker 3: and she certainly didn't follow any kind of traditional path. Instead,

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Speaker 3: she was a UNI dropout working retail who loved to draw.

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Speaker 3: She sold her wardrobe on eBay, she bought herself some

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Speaker 3: beautiful paper and pens and she started posting her drawings,

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Speaker 3: her hyper realistic drawings online, and then Kanye West bought

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Speaker 3: one of her pieces and that changed everything. CJ now

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Speaker 3: lives in Brooklyn with her husband, who's also an Aussie

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Speaker 3: and their three kids. She creates immersive art experiences that

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Speaker 3: attract crowds around the world, and she's built a global

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Speaker 3: business on her own terms without ever waiting for permission.

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Speaker 3: In this conversation, CJ and I talk about how she

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Speaker 3: got here, how she manages to create while raising a

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Speaker 3: young family and while staying agile and making up her

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Speaker 3: own rules. Is her secret source. She proves just that,

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Speaker 3: by the way, when on the spur of the moment

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Speaker 3: during our chat, CJ makes a major announcement that is

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Speaker 3: going to send fans into a frenzy.

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Speaker 1: Here is CJ Hendry.

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Speaker 3: Katherine Katherine, who calls you CJ Hendry my.

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Speaker 2: Mum sometimes but not. I don't know, no one really

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Speaker 2: calls me Katherine so much. I had a rebrand in

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Speaker 2: your five and I was I've been called since then, Yeah, Oh.

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Speaker 1: Was it your idea or someone else's.

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Speaker 2: I think it was mine because there was a girl

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Speaker 2: at school who was a bit of a bully and

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Speaker 2: she called me Kat and Kathy, and for some reason

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Speaker 2: I didn't like that. I was like, we've got a rebrand.

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Speaker 2: Let's rebrand to CJ. And it's kind of been like

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Speaker 2: that ever since.

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Speaker 3: And the rebrand has actually been brilliant for you? Is

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Speaker 3: it because if you were, if you were Kath Hendry,

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Speaker 3: I don't think your aunt would be the same.

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Speaker 2: No, it's giving too feminine, you know, so I think, yeah, CJ.

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Speaker 2: Could be.

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Speaker 1: It's a little bit of a little bit of b

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Speaker 1: Like a lot of people who.

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Speaker 2: Might not even know who am or what I do

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Speaker 2: still think I'm a boy and that's great.

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Speaker 1: Why not?

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Speaker 3: And it's like in the olden days when female writers

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Speaker 3: would take just a couple of initials at the start,

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Speaker 3: so people didn't know if they were male or female. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: Miles Franklin not initially got none the least women.

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Speaker 2: It's just it just kind of it's just a happy accident,

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Speaker 2: you know, Like certainly wasn't planning to be in this

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Speaker 2: position or be an artist.

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Speaker 1: Way back in year five.

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Speaker 2: I was just a little girl who didn't like to

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Speaker 2: be called cat, you know, or cat.

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Speaker 3: But so much of what you've done, by the way,

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Speaker 3: c J. Hendry, welcome to No Filter. Thank you for

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Speaker 3: having me, and we're very excited to have you. And

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Speaker 3: I there are tentacles coming out from me of people

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Speaker 3: that I know and that I love who are so

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Speaker 3: beside themselves about you, but in your art, which has

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Speaker 3: kind of really evolved quite rapidly. Really it feels sure,

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Speaker 3: does it feel rapid to you?

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Speaker 1: The unfolding of you?

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Speaker 2: No, it doesn't be a rap it at all. I think.

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Speaker 2: I guess I'm an artist. I'm an Instagram artist. I

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Speaker 2: do lots of different things. Now what started is just

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Speaker 2: drawing has now morphed into other things. But I think,

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Speaker 2: as with anything, you need to evolve and grow. If

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Speaker 2: I was still drawing in black and white on paper

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Speaker 2: and still doing that, that is not that it gets

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Speaker 2: very uninteresting very quickly, you know. So, I think in

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Speaker 2: the speed at which social media works and the speed

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Speaker 2: at which people's attentions last, you kind of have to

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Speaker 2: evolve and morph and do new shit. And so I'm

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Speaker 2: just kind of moving at the speed that it needs

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Speaker 2: to be at this point. But yeah, I'm part artist, past,

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Speaker 2: part business person, part whatever at this point.

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Speaker 3: But you know how we were just saying CJ. Henry

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Speaker 3: turned out to be great for you. There seems to

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Speaker 3: be like fortune has favored the brave when it comes

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Speaker 3: to you, because when you decided to start putting your

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Speaker 3: stuff up, it was on Instagram pretty early. Instagram very early,

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Speaker 3: very like I couldn't even tell you when, but certainly

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Speaker 3: within the first year of it being open, yeah, yeah, right,

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Speaker 3: And before that you'd been studying, so you were in

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Speaker 3: this study cycle at qut.

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Speaker 2: AQT did a bit of architecture. Wasn't very good at that.

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Speaker 2: Then I shifted over and enrolled in accounting and finance at.

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Speaker 1: UQ even more useless. I know, I was truly useless.

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Speaker 1: You know how Like at UNI there's like an overall GPA.

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Speaker 2: I think it's like one per seven, four as a

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Speaker 2: pass and a seven as you're really smart. My overall

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Speaker 2: GPO was a three point seventy five. So to give

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Speaker 2: you a sense of like where I was on the

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Speaker 2: past fail scandeight, my overall mark was a fail.

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Speaker 3: So I just kind of lower in architecture or lower

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Speaker 3: in when you went into the finance.

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Speaker 1: It was all just low.

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Speaker 2: I can't exactly tell you a numbers, it was just

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Speaker 2: not It was around the past fail numbers, around four

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Speaker 2: or just below. For some reason, I just university just

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Speaker 2: never gelled for me. I can't quite make that work.

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Speaker 2: I was relatively good at school, and then when it

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Speaker 2: hit UNI. Maybe it was because I had I was

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Speaker 2: able to work and make my own money and do

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Speaker 2: my own thing. I was like, university is just a

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Speaker 2: hindrance in me being able to go and work at

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Speaker 2: a bar. You know, I love working. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

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Speaker 2: When you in that sort of cycle trying to be.

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Speaker 3: A student, were you drawing? Mean, like, when did you

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Speaker 3: start drawing? Or have you always drawn?

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Speaker 2: Loosely drawn? I wasn't wouldn't say I was exceptional. Like

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Speaker 2: I said, I was just a good student at school.

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Speaker 2: I think I did the amount of art that everyone

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Speaker 2: does at school. You have to do English, you have

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Speaker 2: to do science. Most people do are like you know,

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Speaker 2: So I was good, but not a standout, And I

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Speaker 2: think what I enjoyed more than anything. And then when

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Speaker 2: I was at UNI, you know, I was just doing UNI,

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Speaker 2: you know, UNI and working. But what it always stuck

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Speaker 2: with me with drawing. I wasn't even particularly good at that.

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Speaker 2: I was okay, but I'm not certainly where I'm at

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Speaker 2: now in terms of skill level. But what always stuck

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Speaker 2: with me with drawing, and still to this day, is

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Speaker 2: just how drawing made me feel. I'm not particularly woo woo,

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Speaker 2: but I just really enjoy being able to sit in

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Speaker 2: my own thought and it's almost like a form of meditation.

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Speaker 2: Just sit and draw, sure and just zone out, watch

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Speaker 2: some Netflix, have a podcast on, listen to audiobooks, you know,

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Speaker 2: and it's just as a lovely time just I could

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Speaker 2: spend hours on my own just drawing, and I was

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Speaker 2: just just I always felt very calm doing that.

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Speaker 3: The moment when you decided, okay, UNI's not for you

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Speaker 3: and you're not for UNI, and you said to your parents,

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Speaker 3: hard working South Africans, you're absolutely right, yep, come to

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Speaker 3: Australia and you said, I'm going to take a year

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Speaker 3: off and I'm going to draw.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That how was that conversation?

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Speaker 2: It was as as you would expect. Mum and dad,

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Speaker 2: just to be clear, the most beautiful, supportive parents. They

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Speaker 2: are very hard working, so I think this was just

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Speaker 2: a bit of a rogue thing to do. You know.

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Speaker 2: They didn't say no, but they certainly weren't like, great,

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Speaker 2: how can we you know, let's step in and help.

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Speaker 2: I think they were just like, this is what you

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Speaker 2: need to do, go for it. I was still living

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Speaker 2: at home in the basement with mom and dad, so

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Speaker 2: fortunately they never kicked me out, so it couldn't have

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Speaker 2: gone that badly, right, certainly, so they were still happy

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Speaker 2: to have me at home, but it was it's just

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Speaker 2: a weird thing to say, I just want to draw.

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Speaker 2: And they knew I enjoyed drawing, they knew I was

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Speaker 2: okay at it. But I think Mum was just like, well, artists,

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Speaker 2: how are you going to support yourself? Like that just

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Speaker 2: doesn't work? And I said, I don't care. That's just

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Speaker 2: not my focus. I just want to draw because I

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Speaker 2: enjoy it. You know, UNI's not going particularly well working

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Speaker 2: at a bar, you know, like who gives a shit?

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Speaker 2: So then I kind of sold at that point in time,

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Speaker 2: I sold my whole wardrobe on eBay. This is when

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Speaker 2: eBay was really cool, and I saw my wardrobe and

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Speaker 2: either so I had a little bit of money so

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Speaker 2: I could buy all my materials.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, because you'd also had a taste for luxury

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Speaker 3: goods before then, Yeah, so you had some high stuff.

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Speaker 2: I had champagne taste and beer money. So I would

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Speaker 2: save up all my money and I would go and

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Speaker 2: buy fancy things. And where was I going Nowhere? But

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Speaker 2: I just like to have nice things, you know, like that.

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Speaker 2: You know, I wasn't out all the time. I just

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Speaker 2: just enjoyed nice shoes and bags and clothes for no

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Speaker 2: reason other than I just like to have it. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: i'd just work at a bar, save up all my

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Speaker 2: money from tips and whatever else, and I'd just go

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Speaker 2: buy beautiful things. And then that led to me getting

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Speaker 2: a job at Chanel, which was in Brisbane, which was amazing.

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Speaker 2: I learned so much from that. And this was just

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Speaker 2: me selling handbags. I wasn't doing anything particularly life threatening there.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to get a job at Chanel, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean I think so, But somehow I talked my

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Speaker 2: way in and they said yes, and I said, I said, great,

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Speaker 2: when did we start? So I spent a couple of

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Speaker 2: years there and learn a lot just about just luxury

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Speaker 2: and the selling of luxury. And in all honesty, the

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Speaker 2: brand sold itself so we didn't have to do a

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Speaker 2: whole b just had I just had to have chat

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Speaker 2: really and yeah, I had a grand all time there.

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Speaker 2: And that's when I was kind of doing Yuni. I'm

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Speaker 2: trying to piece it all together. Yeah, just I was

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Speaker 2: just like, I just don't think this is the direction

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Speaker 2: my life has meant to go. You know, Yuni is

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Speaker 2: not going well. I don't think I want to work

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Speaker 2: in retail forever. Let me just try my hand at drawing.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, that's when I kind of sold my wardrobe

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Speaker 2: and said, all right, I've got enough. I've got enough

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Speaker 2: leg room to kind of go through for the next

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Speaker 2: year and just draw. And that's what I did.

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Speaker 1: You went and bought with your wardrobe money.

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Speaker 3: You went and brought a whole lot of pencils and

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Speaker 3: paper stock instead draw.

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Speaker 2: Yep, So I went and bought beautiful paper and pens.

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Speaker 2: I think the thing that I always wanted I didn't

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Speaker 2: want the quality of my materials to be not great.

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Speaker 2: I've always liked to do things as well as I can,

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Speaker 2: or close to perfect. Even from the start, I was like,

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Speaker 2: I just want this beautiful cotton paper. I want these

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Speaker 2: like Japanese pens. And also framing was really expensive. Framing

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Speaker 2: was certainly the more expensive part of this whole thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and I was just going to draw. The plan was

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Speaker 2: to just do five drawings, put them in a folio

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Speaker 2: and take them to galleries around Brisbane and the hope

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Speaker 2: that they might be interested enough to sign me or

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Speaker 2: represent me or.

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Speaker 1: Something like that.

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Speaker 2: And then in the means, you know, I was like,

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Speaker 2: that might take a couple of months, let's let's work

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Speaker 2: toward that. And then in that time, that's when social

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Speaker 2: media was kind of happening. I think my sister was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: let's just take a photo and post it. I said, okay,

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Speaker 2: and then yeah, one thing led to another, and I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's all funny to talk about so like Instagram way

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Speaker 2: back then, but it isn't.

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Speaker 1: It was funny back then, you know.

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Speaker 2: You just kind of post and the goal was still, well,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to go to a gallery because that's what

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Speaker 2: you do as an artist. Never was I like I'm

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Speaker 2: going to be a hack on Instagram. I'm like, that

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Speaker 2: was not That was certainly not the plan, and it's

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Speaker 2: still not the plan. But I'm still here, I guess,

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Speaker 2: And also.

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Speaker 1: Like, really, what is the plan?

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Speaker 3: Because everything in retrospect seems like it's a plan, but

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Speaker 3: when you're doing it, it's often just instinct or what

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Speaker 3: you feel like doing.

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Speaker 2: And I think it's still instincts, Like very rarely are

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Speaker 2: we working with like a hardcore plant with anything, you know,

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Speaker 2: like we'll be building exhibitions. I certainly know where I'm

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Speaker 2: at now and where I hope to be, you know,

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Speaker 2: I just like to create things and build exhibitions and

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Speaker 2: draw whatever that might look like, and just to create

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Speaker 2: things as often as I can and kind of create

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Speaker 2: alternate realities for people to experience, you know, and we're

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Speaker 2: just having a whole lot of fun doing it. The

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Speaker 2: team's amazing. I've worked with a beautiful team who helped

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Speaker 2: me execute these ideas.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: Everyone works really really hard, harder than me, you know.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, it's just being able to build these super

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Speaker 2: creative things and put them into reality and for people

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Speaker 2: to come and experience them.

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Speaker 1: Is the plan this? You know, Well, that's the execution

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Speaker 1: of the plan, I guess.

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Speaker 3: But if you go back to that moment that must

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Speaker 3: have been it must have had some significance for you.

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Speaker 3: Was it the rim Williams boots that you were the

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Speaker 3: first thing you sold?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: That you might be exactly right, right? And how was

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Speaker 1: that moment that.

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Speaker 2: Was game changing? Because they it wasn't an insignificant amo

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Speaker 2: amount of money. It was like ten thousand dollars, which

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Speaker 2: is insane. I was like, I even kind of cold around,

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Speaker 2: So I was like, are you sure? You know, because

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Speaker 2: I wasn't sure that they wanted it, And then that

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Speaker 2: it kind of gives you the confidence at that point

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Speaker 2: to say, gosh, this could be something. And I always

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Speaker 2: try to encourage people who are looking at ur you know,

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Speaker 2: or wanting to buy art. I'm like, always support artists

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Speaker 2: who are starting out. Don't buy my art, Heaven's sake,

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Speaker 2: who gives a shit about me? Go and support artists

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Speaker 2: who are just starting out because it can really change

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Speaker 2: the course of their whole life. And I know this

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Speaker 2: particular family who bought these rm will into boots like

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Speaker 2: truly changed my life because it was I was able

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Speaker 2: to use that money to continue to draw and get

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Speaker 2: things from and you know, not have to go and

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Speaker 2: get a job for another six months, because ten thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars goes such a long way, you know.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it's really important.

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Speaker 3: Very unusual, I think for any emerging artist as you

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Speaker 3: were then, probably didn't even really define yourself maybe as

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Speaker 3: an artist then.

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Speaker 2: No, just someone who liked to draw.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, just for someone to sell their first work

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Speaker 3: for ten grand is quite incredible.

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Speaker 2: It is. But I was looking at it quite logically.

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Speaker 2: I was like, well, it took me x amount of hours.

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Speaker 2: If I'm going on a twenty five dollars an hour rate,

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Speaker 2: that works out. It was probably like three hundred. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that was more than.

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Speaker 1: The shell rate.

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Speaker 2: So I thought I might up a little bit. I thought,

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Speaker 2: look at me. Yes, I was like, twenty five seems fair.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, I think I rounded out to

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Speaker 2: like nine thousand and three. I was like, look rounded

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Speaker 2: up to ten. That's just my time, you know. And

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Speaker 2: they seem to like it. Yeah, but yeah, it was.

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Speaker 2: It did change the course of everything because I was

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Speaker 2: able to continue to draw. And then I think someone

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Speaker 2: else reached out and said I'd like to buy something

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Speaker 2: or commission something, and that's kind of how it.

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Speaker 1: Started, you know.

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Speaker 2: I I was able to make a little bit of money.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so that was like twenty fourteen. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Had you met Lewis then? Who is now your husband?

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Speaker 3: So we started officially dating on eleven, twelve thirteen, so yes,

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Speaker 3: I had yeah. Yeah, So we met just as I

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Speaker 3: was like loosely starting to draw. He was studying engineering

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Speaker 3: at UQ. He's very smart. He got his degree.

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Speaker 1: I didn't. Yeah, so I think we've just started dating.

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Speaker 1: Gpa what was his GPM? It's high, you say, he

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Speaker 1: always downplaying and I was very high. Yeah. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: then how did you two meet?

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Speaker 2: We met at the Strategy Day races playing Spin the Bottle. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: just I was out and he was out and someone

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Speaker 2: dad spit the battle with an after party, and then

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Speaker 2: I got back's house. Literally, I could tell you exactly

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Speaker 2: where it was. Yeah, it was so funny. And then

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Speaker 2: that's kind of happened, and then we just loosely started

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Speaker 2: hanging out, and yeah, I think he wanted Yeah, do you.

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Speaker 3: Think people know all know spin the bottle, which is

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Speaker 3: an old It's Australian, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: It's an Australian Spin the bottle in the.

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Speaker 3: Bottle and then when the bottle, both ends of the

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Speaker 3: bottle points to two people obviously, and then those people

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Speaker 3: have to kiss.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly how it happened. And then here we are. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but at that point he was your boyfriend.

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Speaker 3: You like drawing, You're selling a couple of things.

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Speaker 1: He's going to be an engineer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he was. He wanted to go somewhere else to work,

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Speaker 2: and he was toying up between Hong Kong and New York,

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Speaker 2: and he landed on New York and I was like,

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Speaker 2: you know what, I'd like to come because I want

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Speaker 2: to continue, you know, like the art was kind of happening.

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Speaker 2: I must say, this time I had signed, I'd started

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Speaker 2: to talk to Bill Tikos, who ran The Cool Hunter.

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Speaker 2: He was a very instrumental person in developing and growing

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Speaker 2: my career in the early days. I don't think i'd

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Speaker 2: be here certainly without him. I could definitely give credit

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Speaker 2: to a lot of people throughout the years, but he

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Speaker 2: was instrumental in those early days. He was so confident

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Speaker 2: and so brazen about selling art. He's like, who gives

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Speaker 2: a shit that you're sell on Instagram, Let's just go

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Speaker 2: for it. And I was like, oh, heavens, you know.

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Speaker 2: So he took care of the sale side of things,

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Speaker 2: and yeah, heavens, he took care of the sale side

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Speaker 2: of things, and then I was just able to draw.

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Speaker 2: So it was a beautiful relationship for many years. And

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Speaker 2: yeah that it just allowed me to just draw every

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Speaker 2: day and he handled everything else, which was great.

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Speaker 1: So it was around that time that I signed with him.

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Speaker 3: But you're also obviously, I mean, I think it's a

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Speaker 3: hallmark of kind of the way he lives that you're like, well,

365
00:18:04,485 --> 00:18:07,125
Speaker 3: I'm going into this area where there are no rules,

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Speaker 3: so I'm just gonna follow my nose.

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Speaker 2: That's a great point, kay, because art, in my opinions

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Speaker 2: still to this day, is the last unregulated industry. Finance was,

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Speaker 2: now it's not, and art is completely unregulated. There's no rules,

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Speaker 2: there's no right or wrongs. It's subjective. People love it,

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Speaker 2: people hate it. Why is something valued at ten million dollars?

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Speaker 2: Why is something? Like? Why is something valued at ten dollars?

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Speaker 2: You know? Like it's why? Like it's so arbitrary, And

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Speaker 2: that's what I find really fascinating. It's all perceived value.

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Speaker 2: It's it's storytelling, it's everything. It's commerce and creative mixed

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Speaker 2: up in one. And it's a beautiful it can be

377
00:18:49,285 --> 00:18:52,205
Speaker 2: a beautiful combination. I mean, if you're a commercial artist

378
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Speaker 2: like I am, if you're just somebody wants to make

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00:18:54,445 --> 00:18:56,925
Speaker 2: you know art and sell it on Etsy, Yeah, that's

380
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Speaker 2: a different type of artist, but it's still an artist.

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Speaker 2: You know. Just because you're making money doesn't mean you're

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Speaker 2: any better. Certainly doesn't mean you're any better than someone

383
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Speaker 2: making art, you know.

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Speaker 3: But it's I find it interesting that you say it's

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Speaker 3: unregulated because you've kind of made it unregulated, because I

386
00:19:14,765 --> 00:19:19,085
Speaker 3: think before you it wasn't it was so or maybe

387
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Speaker 3: that's my perception from the outside that it's got a

388
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Speaker 3: very elitist overtone, and a lot.

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Speaker 1: Of it has to be what does this work mean?

390
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Speaker 3: And normal people are staring at things like boggle eyed

391
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Speaker 3: and it kind of made to feel a bit lesser

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Speaker 3: if they don't understand the motivation of the artist.

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Speaker 1: Now, you changed a lot of that.

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Speaker 3: Through just doing your art and letting people appreciate it

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Speaker 3: for what it was.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's very kind of you to say, and I

397
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Speaker 2: guess there is an element of that. But by no

398
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Speaker 2: means was I going out there to be like, look

399
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Speaker 2: at me, I'm going to change some shit. No, I

400
00:20:01,765 --> 00:20:04,005
Speaker 2: was just making my art and one thing led to another.

401
00:20:04,165 --> 00:20:07,845
Speaker 2: Series of unfortunate events have led me here. But no, was.

402
00:20:08,245 --> 00:20:10,485
Speaker 2: It just is what it is. And I think to

403
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Speaker 2: your point of art being very elitist, it is still

404
00:20:13,925 --> 00:20:16,765
Speaker 2: at the very highest level. It is still. But what

405
00:20:16,965 --> 00:20:20,165
Speaker 2: is happening which is really interesting at the very highest

406
00:20:20,245 --> 00:20:24,525
Speaker 2: levels from I'm talking two hundred thousand and above into

407
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Speaker 2: the millions, art's not moving like they're not moving the

408
00:20:27,525 --> 00:20:30,925
Speaker 2: amount of infantry that they once did, because those those

409
00:20:31,005 --> 00:20:34,285
Speaker 2: were a different subset of people. You know, like much

410
00:20:34,365 --> 00:20:37,525
Speaker 2: you know boomers, now, who are you know, looking to,

411
00:20:38,165 --> 00:20:40,285
Speaker 2: you know, slow down their spending or whatever it might be.

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Speaker 2: And now there's a whole lot of younger kid who

413
00:20:43,445 --> 00:20:45,725
Speaker 2: are coming in with either their parents' money or their

414
00:20:45,765 --> 00:20:49,285
Speaker 2: own money, self made, who are not interested in buying

415
00:20:49,285 --> 00:20:52,005
Speaker 2: Pocassa's for ten million. They're like, that's not very interesting.

416
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Speaker 2: I can't meet Pokassa. He's a dead guy, you know.

417
00:20:54,925 --> 00:20:56,965
Speaker 2: So I think they are looking to kind of invest

418
00:20:57,005 --> 00:21:02,565
Speaker 2: in artists who are slightly younger, who are highly contemporary artists.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not just talking about myself. There's a whole

420
00:21:04,845 --> 00:21:07,645
Speaker 2: lot of people, you know, my peers, who are doing

421
00:21:07,645 --> 00:21:09,445
Speaker 2: it as well. I'm certainly not the only one. And

422
00:21:09,485 --> 00:21:13,685
Speaker 2: there's everyone's doing a great job. And we're young. We're

423
00:21:14,165 --> 00:21:17,565
Speaker 2: like moving at a rapid rate, and it's interesting to watch,

424
00:21:17,685 --> 00:21:20,405
Speaker 2: you know. And I think people enjoy that. I mean,

425
00:21:20,565 --> 00:21:23,365
Speaker 2: I certainly enjoy it. You know, not everyone loves it.

426
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Speaker 2: I'm not looking for worldwide acceptance, but yeah, we're kind

427
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Speaker 2: of slowly just taking down the elitist nature of it.

428
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Speaker 3: It's like democratized art and throwing the doors open.

429
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think I certainly will build exhibitions and

430
00:21:39,925 --> 00:21:43,405
Speaker 2: there's no basis on a wall when you enter. You know,

431
00:21:43,445 --> 00:21:46,805
Speaker 2: there's often big, big things you have to read about

432
00:21:46,805 --> 00:21:50,445
Speaker 2: what someone's feeling with convoluted words that even I don't know,

433
00:21:50,605 --> 00:21:52,085
Speaker 2: and I'm not very I wouldn't even know how to

434
00:21:52,125 --> 00:21:54,405
Speaker 2: put that together. I'd have to use AI to write it.

435
00:21:54,805 --> 00:21:56,725
Speaker 2: And that just is no interest to me, because then

436
00:21:56,725 --> 00:21:58,605
Speaker 2: you're forcing people to feel a certain way when they

437
00:21:58,645 --> 00:22:01,085
Speaker 2: walk in. I just want people to walk in with

438
00:22:01,605 --> 00:22:04,565
Speaker 2: any age, any background, and you just walk in. You

439
00:22:04,645 --> 00:22:06,805
Speaker 2: might love it, you might hate it, but you're going

440
00:22:06,845 --> 00:22:08,565
Speaker 2: to feel something when you walk in because you have

441
00:22:08,605 --> 00:22:11,445
Speaker 2: to experience. I think whatever that might be. It might

442
00:22:11,485 --> 00:22:13,605
Speaker 2: be a bounce house, it might be this big inflatable

443
00:22:13,605 --> 00:22:17,045
Speaker 2: climbing things. It might be a church with pedals in London. Like,

444
00:22:17,045 --> 00:22:19,765
Speaker 2: there's so many different things we've done over the years,

445
00:22:19,765 --> 00:22:22,805
Speaker 2: and they're all different, they're all a bit outlandish, and

446
00:22:22,805 --> 00:22:25,125
Speaker 2: people are certainly going to feel something, you know, but

447
00:22:25,765 --> 00:22:28,085
Speaker 2: I don't expect you to feel what I feel.

448
00:22:32,005 --> 00:22:35,605
Speaker 3: Coming up after this short breather, CJ explains how she

449
00:22:35,885 --> 00:22:40,365
Speaker 3: and her art got discovered by some pretty major power players.

450
00:22:40,725 --> 00:22:42,965
Speaker 3: When she followed Lewis to New York.

451
00:22:43,325 --> 00:22:44,605
Speaker 1: He had no say in it.

452
00:22:50,365 --> 00:22:55,725
Speaker 3: I'm curious about the moment when you said to Lewis,

453
00:22:56,485 --> 00:23:00,445
Speaker 3: I'm going to come to New York with you? Do

454
00:23:00,525 --> 00:23:02,285
Speaker 3: you want me to come to New York with you?

455
00:23:02,525 --> 00:23:06,005
Speaker 3: Or was that alike I'm coming to moment?

456
00:23:06,805 --> 00:23:07,645
Speaker 1: Oh where you.

457
00:23:07,605 --> 00:23:11,765
Speaker 2: Were at It was definitely I'm coming to please can

458
00:23:11,765 --> 00:23:14,125
Speaker 2: I come? And like, I know, I was like, look,

459
00:23:14,125 --> 00:23:17,485
Speaker 2: we're only freshly dating, but like, just let's not plan

460
00:23:17,565 --> 00:23:20,525
Speaker 2: too far ahead. I'm a big believer and don't plan

461
00:23:20,565 --> 00:23:23,085
Speaker 2: too far ahead because life happens and then your plan

462
00:23:23,125 --> 00:23:25,645
Speaker 2: has to change. And if you're too focused on, you know,

463
00:23:25,685 --> 00:23:27,845
Speaker 2: on your exact plan, then you're not going to see

464
00:23:27,845 --> 00:23:30,245
Speaker 2: the opportunity that they present itself. So I said, look,

465
00:23:30,285 --> 00:23:33,245
Speaker 2: we're just dating. Let's just go. If it doesn't work out,

466
00:23:33,285 --> 00:23:35,445
Speaker 2: it doesn't work out, let's you know, but let's just

467
00:23:35,485 --> 00:23:38,405
Speaker 2: go as just a little, you know, just lovers. Let's

468
00:23:38,405 --> 00:23:40,845
Speaker 2: go as lovers. We went as lovers. We rented an

469
00:23:40,885 --> 00:23:45,445
Speaker 2: apartment together. He started his business. I was doing my thing,

470
00:23:45,965 --> 00:23:48,245
Speaker 2: you know, we just I've always been kind of doing

471
00:23:48,285 --> 00:23:51,365
Speaker 2: our own thing, which has been great. And then one

472
00:23:51,365 --> 00:23:55,205
Speaker 2: thing led to another. We couldn't afford our apartment anymore.

473
00:23:55,205 --> 00:23:58,085
Speaker 2: In Tribeca because I was working from home there drawing

474
00:23:58,245 --> 00:24:00,365
Speaker 2: and he would go to work and we couldn't we

475
00:24:00,365 --> 00:24:03,045
Speaker 2: needed more space. We couldn't afford to be in Manhattan,

476
00:24:03,085 --> 00:24:05,925
Speaker 2: so we got pushed out to Brooklyn to Greenpoint, where

477
00:24:05,965 --> 00:24:08,685
Speaker 2: we rented a big warehouse we could afford. And we've

478
00:24:08,685 --> 00:24:10,685
Speaker 2: been a green Point ever since. And now green Point's

479
00:24:10,725 --> 00:24:12,965
Speaker 2: really cool, but it wasn't cool way back then. It

480
00:24:12,965 --> 00:24:15,405
Speaker 2: was a bit shit. And then we've been to Brooklyn

481
00:24:15,445 --> 00:24:18,325
Speaker 2: ever since. And we got married. We took our families

482
00:24:18,325 --> 00:24:20,805
Speaker 2: to lunch and we just eloped to the Brisbane City Hall.

483
00:24:21,485 --> 00:24:25,205
Speaker 2: And then we've got three kids are a four or

484
00:24:25,205 --> 00:24:26,365
Speaker 2: three and a six months old.

485
00:24:26,445 --> 00:24:29,285
Speaker 1: So it's been busy. It's been a busy couple of years.

486
00:24:29,285 --> 00:24:30,645
Speaker 1: And you seem pretty happy.

487
00:24:32,725 --> 00:24:36,925
Speaker 2: Happy happy as a happy is a sliding scale. I

488
00:24:36,925 --> 00:24:39,045
Speaker 2: think there's some days that make me happier than others,

489
00:24:39,605 --> 00:24:42,085
Speaker 2: but I think over the course of many years, I'm

490
00:24:42,125 --> 00:24:45,725
Speaker 2: like just trying to just coast along. There's always stress

491
00:24:45,765 --> 00:24:48,525
Speaker 2: and pressure, whether it be financially. Kids are a whole

492
00:24:48,525 --> 00:24:49,565
Speaker 2: different level of stress.

493
00:24:49,605 --> 00:24:50,045
Speaker 1: As you know.

494
00:24:50,925 --> 00:24:53,285
Speaker 2: Any parent can attest to, you know, and any parent

495
00:24:53,285 --> 00:24:56,365
Speaker 2: who's working and also has kids, you know, even if

496
00:24:56,405 --> 00:24:59,805
Speaker 2: you don't have kids. Just life is stressful in different ways.

497
00:24:59,845 --> 00:25:03,205
Speaker 2: So I always try to look on the more optimistic

498
00:25:03,245 --> 00:25:06,085
Speaker 2: side because nothing's going to go according to plan. You're

499
00:25:06,125 --> 00:25:08,405
Speaker 2: never going to be skinny enough or rich enough, so

500
00:25:08,405 --> 00:25:10,365
Speaker 2: I may as well just get into it. He must

501
00:25:10,565 --> 00:25:14,085
Speaker 2: like you and I like him. It's a two way street. Yeah,

502
00:25:14,125 --> 00:25:16,485
Speaker 2: it's a two way street. Well, I'm very lucky. I

503
00:25:16,485 --> 00:25:19,245
Speaker 2: think we're a good little We're just good mates, you know,

504
00:25:19,365 --> 00:25:23,165
Speaker 2: like we have a laugh, we don't take anything too seriously. Yeah,

505
00:25:23,205 --> 00:25:26,285
Speaker 2: he's he's a good two busy Bogans. You know, it

506
00:25:26,325 --> 00:25:26,845
Speaker 2: was meant to be.

507
00:25:27,525 --> 00:25:31,965
Speaker 3: To work at your level, you need to outsource part

508
00:25:32,005 --> 00:25:33,005
Speaker 3: of the child.

509
00:25:34,445 --> 00:25:38,365
Speaker 1: All of that. At what point do you and Lewis

510
00:25:38,405 --> 00:25:39,365
Speaker 1: go are we?

511
00:25:39,725 --> 00:25:42,085
Speaker 3: How do we find that balance of how much you

512
00:25:42,205 --> 00:25:44,965
Speaker 3: outsource with three little kids.

513
00:25:45,725 --> 00:25:47,965
Speaker 2: I'll speak for myself, but I know just talking to

514
00:25:47,965 --> 00:25:50,045
Speaker 2: my other mum friends, it's always going to be the

515
00:25:50,085 --> 00:25:54,365
Speaker 2: biggest sense of guilt and not knowing what the right

516
00:25:54,405 --> 00:25:56,445
Speaker 2: answer is. I mean, you've got four kids. I'm sure

517
00:25:56,445 --> 00:25:59,885
Speaker 2: there were most, you know, Like, it's just I'm fortunate

518
00:26:00,005 --> 00:26:02,445
Speaker 2: that when I've had my babies, my mum's come over

519
00:26:02,525 --> 00:26:05,205
Speaker 2: from Oz to help out. So for the first four months,

520
00:26:05,285 --> 00:26:07,925
Speaker 2: she'll be there five months helping out. She's coming over

521
00:26:08,005 --> 00:26:10,565
Speaker 2: again for the so my holidays to look after the

522
00:26:10,565 --> 00:26:13,325
Speaker 2: big kids. We're fortunate enough to have a nanny who

523
00:26:13,325 --> 00:26:16,325
Speaker 2: helps with the baby while we're at work. It's just

524
00:26:16,405 --> 00:26:18,445
Speaker 2: a it's a trade off, you know what I mean.

525
00:26:18,565 --> 00:26:21,445
Speaker 2: I know on a Saturday and Sunday, I'm fucking miserable.

526
00:26:21,525 --> 00:26:23,205
Speaker 2: Lewis and I are about to divorce each other on a

527
00:26:23,245 --> 00:26:25,365
Speaker 2: Sunday afternoon when we've had the kids for two days.

528
00:26:25,365 --> 00:26:28,765
Speaker 2: So I'm like, well, that's not that's not that's not

529
00:26:28,805 --> 00:26:32,405
Speaker 2: the answer. Full time mumming for me is not the answer.

530
00:26:32,485 --> 00:26:36,045
Speaker 2: But what we've found is a beautiful balance of going

531
00:26:36,045 --> 00:26:38,725
Speaker 2: to work and I pick up Kenny from daycare at

532
00:26:38,765 --> 00:26:41,525
Speaker 2: three thirty, so my in the studio times from nine

533
00:26:41,565 --> 00:26:44,125
Speaker 2: till about three. And would I like to work a

534
00:26:44,165 --> 00:26:48,085
Speaker 2: little bit more, yes, but this is just the time

535
00:26:48,125 --> 00:26:49,765
Speaker 2: in our lives, you know. And no, I'm not with

536
00:26:49,805 --> 00:26:51,925
Speaker 2: the kids all day, but I love going to work.

537
00:26:51,965 --> 00:26:54,365
Speaker 2: It's kind of great because then from you know, like

538
00:26:54,405 --> 00:26:56,245
Speaker 2: three thirty till when they go down to bed, which

539
00:26:56,285 --> 00:26:58,365
Speaker 2: is never early enough. Yeah, we're just smucking around and

540
00:26:58,365 --> 00:27:00,845
Speaker 2: having great time. So but I don't think we've got

541
00:27:00,845 --> 00:27:02,685
Speaker 2: the right formul I don't think any parents got the

542
00:27:02,725 --> 00:27:05,325
Speaker 2: right format. Everyone's just piecing it together, honestly, and summer

543
00:27:05,365 --> 00:27:07,645
Speaker 2: week we're not. We haven't got a better formula than

544
00:27:07,645 --> 00:27:10,725
Speaker 2: anyone else. It's fucking hard, and it's fucking childcare is

545
00:27:10,765 --> 00:27:11,565
Speaker 2: fucking expensive.

546
00:27:12,485 --> 00:27:17,645
Speaker 3: What was your first significant project that came about once

547
00:27:17,685 --> 00:27:19,685
Speaker 3: you'd moved to New York, Because this all seemed to

548
00:27:19,685 --> 00:27:23,365
Speaker 3: happen quite rapidly from you leaving Australia.

549
00:27:24,085 --> 00:27:26,565
Speaker 2: It did once again, I was working with the cool

550
00:27:26,645 --> 00:27:30,045
Speaker 2: hunter so Bill Tikos. We did an exhibition in Soho

551
00:27:30,205 --> 00:27:33,725
Speaker 2: called the Trophy Room, and then that was the one

552
00:27:33,765 --> 00:27:37,165
Speaker 2: I did with him. After that exhibition, I kind of

553
00:27:37,165 --> 00:27:40,125
Speaker 2: branched out and started to do my own thing. So

554
00:27:40,485 --> 00:27:41,965
Speaker 2: I can't even tell you the dates. I could have

555
00:27:42,005 --> 00:27:46,045
Speaker 2: been twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen. From there, I kind of

556
00:27:46,685 --> 00:27:48,885
Speaker 2: was free falling a little bit because I had always

557
00:27:48,965 --> 00:27:51,005
Speaker 2: done my own I had always just done the drawings

558
00:27:51,325 --> 00:27:54,245
Speaker 2: and Bell took care of, you know, like looking after

559
00:27:54,285 --> 00:27:58,485
Speaker 2: everything else. I then was like, holy shit, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck,

560
00:27:58,525 --> 00:28:00,365
Speaker 2: what do I do? I need to do this on

561
00:28:00,365 --> 00:28:04,245
Speaker 2: my own now and so yeah, kind of I'm trying

562
00:28:04,285 --> 00:28:06,365
Speaker 2: to think how that played out. I think when you're

563
00:28:06,365 --> 00:28:08,645
Speaker 2: thrown into the deep and you just kind of figure

564
00:28:08,645 --> 00:28:11,125
Speaker 2: it out. That's where Lewis really helped step in. I

565
00:28:11,165 --> 00:28:13,005
Speaker 2: was like, I don't know how to do that stuff.

566
00:28:13,045 --> 00:28:15,485
Speaker 2: Please help. He's like, we'll figure it out. And so

567
00:28:15,565 --> 00:28:18,165
Speaker 2: we then learned how to sell things. That's when we

568
00:28:18,285 --> 00:28:21,165
Speaker 2: just started like a Shopify account and we'd sell art

569
00:28:21,325 --> 00:28:24,885
Speaker 2: just on Shopify like what you know, like these meant

570
00:28:24,925 --> 00:28:27,965
Speaker 2: for like you're meant to sell undias and t shirts

571
00:28:28,005 --> 00:28:31,005
Speaker 2: like you know, you're not meant to sell tens of thousands,

572
00:28:31,045 --> 00:28:32,285
Speaker 2: you know, and so we're like, well, how else do

573
00:28:32,325 --> 00:28:35,485
Speaker 2: we sell it? So that's kind of yeah, we had

574
00:28:35,485 --> 00:28:38,365
Speaker 2: an exhibition like let's just start a Shopify account. And

575
00:28:38,405 --> 00:28:40,765
Speaker 2: that's how it's always been, you know, like it's not

576
00:28:41,365 --> 00:28:42,285
Speaker 2: super complicated.

577
00:28:42,605 --> 00:28:47,045
Speaker 3: And so once again a maverick outside of the gallery

578
00:28:47,125 --> 00:28:50,925
Speaker 3: system because galleries, when they get hold of artists, I

579
00:28:50,965 --> 00:28:53,565
Speaker 3: mean they can also of course do amazing things for

580
00:28:53,725 --> 00:28:56,725
Speaker 3: artists yep, and bring their art to a lot of people,

581
00:28:57,325 --> 00:29:02,445
Speaker 3: but they also take a giant chunk of change often

582
00:29:02,525 --> 00:29:05,285
Speaker 3: that artists can't afford to be hated.

583
00:29:05,365 --> 00:29:07,325
Speaker 2: Well, I think it depends on the type of artist

584
00:29:07,445 --> 00:29:09,885
Speaker 2: you are, right, So I'm very realist in the fact,

585
00:29:09,925 --> 00:29:13,445
Speaker 2: like I am a commercial artist. I am fortunate to

586
00:29:13,445 --> 00:29:16,405
Speaker 2: make money from I reinvest almost all of it back

587
00:29:16,445 --> 00:29:19,645
Speaker 2: into my practice. So that's kind of how I see it,

588
00:29:19,685 --> 00:29:21,925
Speaker 2: Like it's it is a business. I run it like

589
00:29:21,965 --> 00:29:24,605
Speaker 2: a startup. That's a speed at which we work, you know.

590
00:29:24,765 --> 00:29:27,245
Speaker 2: So yeah, but there's some artists who just have no

591
00:29:27,405 --> 00:29:29,805
Speaker 2: interest in that. They're like, I just know how to create.

592
00:29:30,125 --> 00:29:32,285
Speaker 2: I don't want to schmooz and wheel and deal. I

593
00:29:32,325 --> 00:29:34,245
Speaker 2: don't want to do all that stuff. So for them,

594
00:29:34,285 --> 00:29:36,565
Speaker 2: the gallery will really work well. So it just really

595
00:29:36,645 --> 00:29:39,205
Speaker 2: you just got to figure out what's going to work

596
00:29:39,205 --> 00:29:39,605
Speaker 2: best for you.

597
00:29:39,685 --> 00:29:44,245
Speaker 1: And for you, Shopify was Shopify. What's not worked for you?

598
00:29:44,965 --> 00:29:48,285
Speaker 2: Yeah, Shopify was there, And also Lewis was like, hey,

599
00:29:48,485 --> 00:29:50,725
Speaker 2: just shop Pilet's go. I'm like all right, you know,

600
00:29:50,805 --> 00:29:54,245
Speaker 2: so I was fortunate that he was more techy than

601
00:29:54,325 --> 00:29:57,325
Speaker 2: I am. I'm, you know, still just more creative. He's

602
00:29:57,365 --> 00:29:59,965
Speaker 2: more logical. Yeah, so that's kind of how I started.

603
00:30:00,005 --> 00:30:03,365
Speaker 2: And yeah, but galeries certainly have their place. I can't

604
00:30:03,365 --> 00:30:06,125
Speaker 2: discount them. I'll be working with a gallery next year

605
00:30:06,165 --> 00:30:09,245
Speaker 2: on an exhibition. But it's it's a it's a megaga,

606
00:30:09,725 --> 00:30:12,045
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like these are galleries that

607
00:30:12,125 --> 00:30:16,765
Speaker 2: are just mega that it's not a quote unquote normal gallery.

608
00:30:16,805 --> 00:30:20,045
Speaker 2: You know. So this is like the big it's the

609
00:30:20,045 --> 00:30:22,205
Speaker 2: big leagues, you know. It's just there's so many different

610
00:30:22,245 --> 00:30:25,125
Speaker 2: ways to be an artist, just just it doesn't look

611
00:30:25,165 --> 00:30:26,005
Speaker 2: the same for everyone.

612
00:30:27,125 --> 00:30:30,245
Speaker 3: But speaking of big leagues, then a couple of seminal

613
00:30:30,325 --> 00:30:33,325
Speaker 3: things happened, and one of the us was Kanye and

614
00:30:33,365 --> 00:30:37,765
Speaker 3: it was him on a on a dollar bill, on

615
00:30:37,805 --> 00:30:40,325
Speaker 3: a dollar bill with his face. I just want to

616
00:30:40,325 --> 00:30:42,365
Speaker 3: purpose this by saying this one Kanye was at as

617
00:30:42,405 --> 00:30:43,325
Speaker 3: prime ten years ago.

618
00:30:43,365 --> 00:30:46,205
Speaker 1: This is not the current Kanye. This is not Kanne

619
00:30:46,365 --> 00:30:46,885
Speaker 1: ten years ago.

620
00:30:47,605 --> 00:30:51,005
Speaker 2: And Kanye was back then just truly like he was

621
00:30:51,005 --> 00:30:53,405
Speaker 2: an inspiration for me as a creative, and he was

622
00:30:53,445 --> 00:30:55,165
Speaker 2: an inspiration to a lot of people. So I just

623
00:30:55,645 --> 00:30:58,965
Speaker 2: need to say that because he really was quite something.

624
00:30:59,405 --> 00:31:02,645
Speaker 3: When people look through the prism of the present at

625
00:31:02,685 --> 00:31:05,565
Speaker 3: the past, it looks very differently, it does, doesn't.

626
00:31:05,565 --> 00:31:10,245
Speaker 1: It was, Yeah, he was revolutionary. He was such a broad.

627
00:31:09,885 --> 00:31:13,885
Speaker 2: Artist, he was and he was just so creative and

628
00:31:13,965 --> 00:31:16,565
Speaker 2: so bold and I took a lot of inspiration from him,

629
00:31:16,605 --> 00:31:19,565
Speaker 2: and you know, it just so much of what he

630
00:31:19,645 --> 00:31:21,245
Speaker 2: did was so different and it was just.

631
00:31:21,205 --> 00:31:22,125
Speaker 1: Beautiful to watch.

632
00:31:22,525 --> 00:31:25,445
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I put him on a dollar bill and

633
00:31:26,005 --> 00:31:29,325
Speaker 2: for somehow he's found out about it and I was

634
00:31:29,365 --> 00:31:33,525
Speaker 2: able to you know, he bought it from me way

635
00:31:33,525 --> 00:31:33,965
Speaker 2: back then.

636
00:31:34,045 --> 00:31:38,965
Speaker 3: And yeah, you know, but how does Kanye Wete buy

637
00:31:39,045 --> 00:31:41,245
Speaker 3: my something from C J Henry?

638
00:31:41,845 --> 00:31:42,725
Speaker 1: Do you know what it was?

639
00:31:43,285 --> 00:31:46,725
Speaker 2: There was a I couldn't remember all the names. It

640
00:31:46,765 --> 00:31:49,365
Speaker 2: was Kim, so Kim and Kanye like they just had

641
00:31:49,445 --> 00:31:52,245
Speaker 2: now anyway I could go into the hole inner work.

642
00:31:53,085 --> 00:31:53,485
Speaker 1: It was.

643
00:31:53,805 --> 00:31:56,365
Speaker 2: It was through social media. It was through social media.

644
00:31:56,405 --> 00:32:00,525
Speaker 2: It was someone who was working with Kim. We still

645
00:32:00,605 --> 00:32:02,805
Speaker 2: chat whether they still work together or not. I think

646
00:32:02,805 --> 00:32:05,885
Speaker 2: she's the CFO or CEO of Skims. She was also

647
00:32:05,885 --> 00:32:08,285
Speaker 2: working closely with Kanye. And one thing, you know, she

648
00:32:08,525 --> 00:32:11,285
Speaker 2: was a fan of Cool Hunter. She found out about

649
00:32:11,325 --> 00:32:13,525
Speaker 2: it that way and then kind of showed it to him,

650
00:32:13,525 --> 00:32:16,125
Speaker 2: and I think that's how it happened. Yeah, but the

651
00:32:16,125 --> 00:32:18,605
Speaker 2: Internet you never really know, you never really know how

652
00:32:18,605 --> 00:32:21,845
Speaker 2: should happened. It's a beautiful place and nothing's linear. There's

653
00:32:21,885 --> 00:32:24,885
Speaker 2: no like clean lines as to how people know, we'll

654
00:32:24,885 --> 00:32:27,285
Speaker 2: find out or hear about things anymore, you know.

655
00:32:27,445 --> 00:32:30,445
Speaker 3: But even so, there was a face to face when

656
00:32:30,485 --> 00:32:32,885
Speaker 3: you hand it over the artwork.

657
00:32:33,325 --> 00:32:37,445
Speaker 2: Yes, and he was shorter than I thought, and he

658
00:32:37,645 --> 00:32:43,205
Speaker 2: was so kind and he gave me. He was very intentional.

659
00:32:43,925 --> 00:32:48,085
Speaker 2: He was very softly spoken. And this was five minutes

660
00:32:48,245 --> 00:32:49,925
Speaker 2: before he was about to go out and perform. And

661
00:32:50,005 --> 00:32:52,525
Speaker 2: it was like he had his little possy there where

662
00:32:52,525 --> 00:32:55,685
Speaker 2: did you do the transaction? This is in the Brisbane

663
00:32:56,085 --> 00:32:58,645
Speaker 2: I don't know where were you performed in Brisbane?

664
00:32:58,805 --> 00:33:05,445
Speaker 3: Like the yeah about Bood, Yeah, the entertainment center.

665
00:33:05,405 --> 00:33:07,765
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was you know. So then he had his

666
00:33:07,805 --> 00:33:10,725
Speaker 2: posse there with there was like five other guys in

667
00:33:10,765 --> 00:33:12,685
Speaker 2: the room and Kanye and there was like snacks.

668
00:33:12,765 --> 00:33:13,645
Speaker 1: He's like, do you want a snack?

669
00:33:13,685 --> 00:33:16,685
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't remember exactly that what I said,

670
00:33:16,725 --> 00:33:19,005
Speaker 2: but yeah, it was just like I was just so.

671
00:33:19,085 --> 00:33:22,885
Speaker 1: Sort of snacks? Does Kanye wears? I can't remember yet.

672
00:33:23,325 --> 00:33:25,725
Speaker 2: And I remember there being orange juice and water, I

673
00:33:25,725 --> 00:33:29,205
Speaker 2: remember that, I remember. Yeah, And then I was sitting

674
00:33:29,245 --> 00:33:31,605
Speaker 2: in the while I sitting in the corridor waiting to go,

675
00:33:31,685 --> 00:33:33,005
Speaker 2: and Kim walked past.

676
00:33:33,125 --> 00:33:36,485
Speaker 1: I was like, I just waited so casual. I was like, wow, yeah,

677
00:33:36,525 --> 00:33:37,845
Speaker 1: so but that was years ago.

678
00:33:37,885 --> 00:33:40,845
Speaker 2: But I'll be honest, I'm not I'm not a celebrity hunter,

679
00:33:41,005 --> 00:33:44,045
Speaker 2: nor does that interest me, nor is that a big

680
00:33:44,125 --> 00:33:45,205
Speaker 2: deal to me.

681
00:33:45,445 --> 00:33:47,445
Speaker 1: It's just a thing that happened.

682
00:33:47,645 --> 00:33:51,125
Speaker 2: And you know, like there's so many other people who

683
00:33:51,405 --> 00:33:54,445
Speaker 2: have bought my art that it's just not that interesting

684
00:33:54,445 --> 00:33:55,045
Speaker 2: to talk about.

685
00:33:55,125 --> 00:33:58,285
Speaker 1: You know, Like, however, you know what it is.

686
00:33:58,885 --> 00:34:03,605
Speaker 3: It's this validation because he was an artist and he

687
00:34:03,725 --> 00:34:05,445
Speaker 3: was a collector of great art.

688
00:34:05,805 --> 00:34:08,085
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was at the beginning of my career, and

689
00:34:08,125 --> 00:34:10,525
Speaker 2: I think there was an l and of this is

690
00:34:10,525 --> 00:34:13,765
Speaker 2: where Bill was so great. He was such a brilliant marketer,

691
00:34:14,205 --> 00:34:16,565
Speaker 2: and he was like, this is just great publicity. We

692
00:34:16,725 --> 00:34:18,925
Speaker 2: have to get that, like people need to know about this.

693
00:34:19,005 --> 00:34:21,165
Speaker 2: And I think that was really smart from his end.

694
00:34:21,205 --> 00:34:23,525
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have done anything about it, but you know,

695
00:34:24,405 --> 00:34:26,165
Speaker 2: he was able to kind of I think place that

696
00:34:26,285 --> 00:34:29,365
Speaker 2: in particular, press things that that happened, and so that's

697
00:34:29,685 --> 00:34:30,805
Speaker 2: kind of how it all played up.

698
00:34:31,325 --> 00:34:34,925
Speaker 3: It's one thing to say you don't need or require

699
00:34:34,965 --> 00:34:38,445
Speaker 3: the external validation, and in fact, probably to do anything

700
00:34:38,565 --> 00:34:41,725
Speaker 3: that anyone does, you have to have the most important

701
00:34:41,805 --> 00:34:45,205
Speaker 3: vision that you have is your own. Yeah, but nonetheless

702
00:34:45,325 --> 00:34:48,085
Speaker 3: it's so nice to have that validation.

703
00:34:48,205 --> 00:34:50,805
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially so early on, you know, when you are

704
00:34:50,925 --> 00:34:54,325
Speaker 2: double second guessing yourself and you're not too sure, and

705
00:34:54,445 --> 00:34:57,405
Speaker 2: just for someone of that caliber to have a piece

706
00:34:57,765 --> 00:35:00,765
Speaker 2: was really special, you know. So yeah, it's certainly catapult

707
00:35:00,805 --> 00:35:04,805
Speaker 2: and certainly changed a few things. But I don't know

708
00:35:06,165 --> 00:35:08,285
Speaker 2: there's something that happened. But I mean, at the end

709
00:35:08,285 --> 00:35:10,325
Speaker 2: of the day, the cele ready buys your art. You

710
00:35:10,405 --> 00:35:13,245
Speaker 2: haven't made it, you know, like by no means was

711
00:35:13,245 --> 00:35:16,365
Speaker 2: like cool, I'm done here and get concent like, you know,

712
00:35:16,405 --> 00:35:18,725
Speaker 2: you're still got to do the work. So it's like

713
00:35:19,125 --> 00:35:22,525
Speaker 2: whilst good things happen, and if any good things happened,

714
00:35:22,525 --> 00:35:26,325
Speaker 2: I don't spend much time like walling around thinking about it,

715
00:35:26,365 --> 00:35:28,125
Speaker 2: like you're still going to go to work the next day.

716
00:35:28,325 --> 00:35:29,365
Speaker 1: Interesting, you know.

717
00:35:29,405 --> 00:35:31,925
Speaker 3: I also I think you seem like that when bad

718
00:35:31,965 --> 00:35:34,605
Speaker 3: things happen as well, Yeah, because I'm thinking about the

719
00:35:34,645 --> 00:35:38,405
Speaker 3: bad things of like the copyright infringing, yeah, and that

720
00:35:38,525 --> 00:35:40,165
Speaker 3: whole series, and.

721
00:35:40,125 --> 00:35:42,805
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, so copyright infringe it was another really

722
00:35:42,965 --> 00:35:47,365
Speaker 2: interesting thing that happened. I had done drawings of Andy

723
00:35:47,365 --> 00:35:50,365
Speaker 2: Warhol's poloids and I'd crumpled them up and draw on

724
00:35:50,405 --> 00:35:52,165
Speaker 2: them and put them on T shirts. And we were

725
00:35:52,165 --> 00:35:54,605
Speaker 2: going to do a release online of the T shirts

726
00:35:54,885 --> 00:35:58,125
Speaker 2: on our little dinky shopper by account and a couple

727
00:35:58,205 --> 00:35:59,885
Speaker 2: I think an hour before the release, we got an

728
00:35:59,885 --> 00:36:03,285
Speaker 2: email from the Warhole Foundation saying, hey, you can't do this,

729
00:36:03,925 --> 00:36:05,845
Speaker 2: We'll sue you or whatever. You know, a bit of

730
00:36:05,845 --> 00:36:08,045
Speaker 2: a season desistent at that time, I'd never had anything.

731
00:36:08,125 --> 00:36:11,125
Speaker 2: I was like panicking white, a little bit panicky. I

732
00:36:11,125 --> 00:36:12,445
Speaker 2: was like, holy shit, hold of shit, we have to

733
00:36:12,445 --> 00:36:14,125
Speaker 2: pull it now. I would have gone ahead with the

734
00:36:14,165 --> 00:36:16,485
Speaker 2: relies and not even cared, but back then I'm like,

735
00:36:16,805 --> 00:36:19,845
Speaker 2: oh shit. So we didn't do the release, and then

736
00:36:19,965 --> 00:36:21,685
Speaker 2: we had all these T shirts and I was like,

737
00:36:21,725 --> 00:36:22,805
Speaker 2: I don't want to throw them away.

738
00:36:23,165 --> 00:36:23,845
Speaker 1: But part of.

739
00:36:23,805 --> 00:36:26,325
Speaker 2: The seasoned list was like you have to destroy the inventory.

740
00:36:26,365 --> 00:36:29,765
Speaker 2: I was like, well, can't we just like dispose of

741
00:36:29,805 --> 00:36:31,965
Speaker 2: them in a more creative way. So we boxed them

742
00:36:32,045 --> 00:36:34,165
Speaker 2: up and read boxes and dropped them around the city

743
00:36:34,205 --> 00:36:37,445
Speaker 2: and posted the locations on social media. I'm like, well,

744
00:36:38,045 --> 00:36:39,685
Speaker 2: they're going to end up in New York City trash

745
00:36:39,725 --> 00:36:41,885
Speaker 2: because like, they don't fuck around the trash in New York,

746
00:36:41,965 --> 00:36:44,165
Speaker 2: like they'll just pick it up and keep going. But yeah,

747
00:36:44,165 --> 00:36:45,725
Speaker 2: and then it turned into this thing, you.

748
00:36:45,685 --> 00:36:50,965
Speaker 3: Know, yes, a brilliant a brilliant thing, like a worldwide

749
00:36:51,605 --> 00:36:52,805
Speaker 3: scavenger hunt.

750
00:36:53,205 --> 00:36:56,165
Speaker 2: But like that, to me, we weren't going out to

751
00:36:56,285 --> 00:36:59,325
Speaker 2: do that. It was just like, how do you just

752
00:36:59,405 --> 00:37:04,925
Speaker 2: do something? I think I'm relatively creative and relatively bullish,

753
00:37:05,045 --> 00:37:06,925
Speaker 2: so you know, if you put those two things together,

754
00:37:07,005 --> 00:37:09,965
Speaker 2: I have little to no issue. You know. Yes, I

755
00:37:10,005 --> 00:37:12,525
Speaker 2: was nervous about the lawsuit, but I was like, let's

756
00:37:12,565 --> 00:37:14,685
Speaker 2: just dispose of them in a fun way. Like there

757
00:37:14,725 --> 00:37:17,605
Speaker 2: was no rule saying you can't be creative with disposal.

758
00:37:17,685 --> 00:37:23,285
Speaker 2: So I was like, Paul, no, let's do that.

759
00:37:23,285 --> 00:37:24,565
Speaker 1: That's not all to our chat.

760
00:37:25,205 --> 00:37:29,405
Speaker 3: Coming up, I get to surprise Cej with a story

761
00:37:29,485 --> 00:37:33,885
Speaker 3: about a young fan of hers and it inspires her

762
00:37:33,965 --> 00:37:36,885
Speaker 3: to make a very special announcement that you are not

763
00:37:37,045 --> 00:37:42,925
Speaker 3: going to want to miss. I'm going to share something

764
00:37:42,965 --> 00:37:46,765
Speaker 3: with you now, Okay, A bit of feedback from a

765
00:37:46,805 --> 00:37:50,525
Speaker 3: girlfriend of mine, one of her really good friends. And

766
00:37:50,565 --> 00:37:53,925
Speaker 3: so we were living in Italy in twenty nineteen, and

767
00:37:54,005 --> 00:37:57,525
Speaker 3: I remember back here in Australia, friends of ours were

768
00:37:57,565 --> 00:37:58,765
Speaker 3: saying that you were there.

769
00:37:58,765 --> 00:38:00,645
Speaker 1: It must have been like September or whatever.

770
00:38:00,765 --> 00:38:04,085
Speaker 3: You were here and you're going to do the copyright

771
00:38:04,125 --> 00:38:08,085
Speaker 3: infringement and it was a frenzy amongst the people that

772
00:38:08,165 --> 00:38:12,685
Speaker 3: knew frenzy. So this is a message from Tiff dam

773
00:38:12,765 --> 00:38:14,965
Speaker 3: her name is. She said, Hi, Kate, so excited for

774
00:38:15,005 --> 00:38:17,845
Speaker 3: your no Filter with CJ. Hendry The Girls. She's got

775
00:38:17,845 --> 00:38:21,005
Speaker 3: two daughters, the Girls, and I have been following her

776
00:38:21,165 --> 00:38:25,885
Speaker 3: art for years. Back in September twenty nineteen school holidays,

777
00:38:25,925 --> 00:38:29,405
Speaker 3: she came to Melbourne to do the copyright infringement scavenger hunt.

778
00:38:29,765 --> 00:38:31,605
Speaker 3: Seemed like a good way to fill up a day

779
00:38:31,605 --> 00:38:34,965
Speaker 3: in the holidays, so got the kids all excited and

780
00:38:35,045 --> 00:38:40,405
Speaker 3: mapped out our game plan. Frankie eleven at the time.

781
00:38:41,485 --> 00:38:45,245
Speaker 3: She decided to choose an iconic venue and wait, rather

782
00:38:45,285 --> 00:38:49,165
Speaker 3: than chase clues. Very clever give out clues to where

783
00:38:49,205 --> 00:38:52,925
Speaker 3: things were going to be. Mcg was decided and she

784
00:38:53,045 --> 00:38:57,165
Speaker 3: found a spot she thought might be it. Two hours later,

785
00:38:58,285 --> 00:39:06,845
Speaker 3: Frankie screamed, Mum, she's here. Some other guy beat us

786
00:39:06,965 --> 00:39:10,165
Speaker 3: to the box. So they were both running full pelt

787
00:39:10,445 --> 00:39:12,965
Speaker 3: for the red box for what happened, But get a

788
00:39:12,965 --> 00:39:18,725
Speaker 3: load of this, Yeah, he saw that Frankie was heartbroken,

789
00:39:19,845 --> 00:39:22,725
Speaker 3: and he split the box with us.

790
00:39:22,925 --> 00:39:25,805
Speaker 2: Oh a true icon, A true icon.

791
00:39:26,245 --> 00:39:29,085
Speaker 3: Frankie's had it framed in her room until yesterday when

792
00:39:29,085 --> 00:39:31,725
Speaker 3: we dropped it at a framers to be professionally mounted.

793
00:39:32,165 --> 00:39:35,005
Speaker 3: Thank you, CJ for one of the best memories and

794
00:39:35,085 --> 00:39:40,325
Speaker 3: for inspiring my girls to draw. That's tiff dam Oh

795
00:39:40,405 --> 00:39:42,725
Speaker 3: my god, Kate, can we share numbers?

796
00:39:42,725 --> 00:39:44,965
Speaker 1: The beautiful guy, I don't even know what his name is.

797
00:39:45,005 --> 00:39:47,165
Speaker 2: I'll track him down. Don't worry, we'll track him down.

798
00:39:47,805 --> 00:39:49,285
Speaker 2: Oh that's divine what.

799
00:39:49,605 --> 00:39:52,285
Speaker 1: You did, now, you know.

800
00:39:52,685 --> 00:39:55,245
Speaker 3: I mean, people can say art has a meaning or

801
00:39:55,325 --> 00:39:58,285
Speaker 3: art doesn't have a meaning. You know, I know that

802
00:39:58,365 --> 00:40:01,485
Speaker 3: your stuff has maybe been trivialized in the past, your

803
00:40:02,085 --> 00:40:07,685
Speaker 3: God forbid. But what you've what you actually did there

804
00:40:08,605 --> 00:40:15,085
Speaker 3: was so extraordinary that you made the power of you

805
00:40:15,845 --> 00:40:20,165
Speaker 3: brought them together. And the guy shared with a little

806
00:40:20,205 --> 00:40:23,085
Speaker 3: girl the ultimate price.

807
00:40:23,645 --> 00:40:26,405
Speaker 2: What a delicious man. Oh my god. And look at

808
00:40:26,405 --> 00:40:30,045
Speaker 2: that delicious little god that is she's sharing that story, Kate.

809
00:40:30,125 --> 00:40:33,725
Speaker 2: That's really lovely. That like makes each here up. That's

810
00:40:33,845 --> 00:40:37,005
Speaker 2: so I know, that's so special because it's like I'm

811
00:40:37,045 --> 00:40:39,405
Speaker 2: just here drawing, just doing the thing, and I don't

812
00:40:39,485 --> 00:40:43,445
Speaker 2: think like when we're making or building a concept, like

813
00:40:43,485 --> 00:40:46,965
Speaker 2: I'm in all honesty not thinking of what people are

814
00:40:47,125 --> 00:40:49,445
Speaker 2: going to experience, because that's not my job, you know,

815
00:40:49,565 --> 00:40:51,405
Speaker 2: like you know what people think about me or my

816
00:40:51,525 --> 00:40:53,725
Speaker 2: art is not my business. We just build it and

817
00:40:53,725 --> 00:40:56,285
Speaker 2: then they come and then they experience it how everyone's

818
00:40:56,325 --> 00:40:58,605
Speaker 2: going to experience it in their own way. And I

819
00:40:58,605 --> 00:41:00,845
Speaker 2: think that's really special. And what we were talked about

820
00:41:00,885 --> 00:41:04,165
Speaker 2: earlier is making art accessible. I think what's brought me

821
00:41:04,365 --> 00:41:07,965
Speaker 2: more joy than anything is not selling expensive art, like

822
00:41:08,005 --> 00:41:11,605
Speaker 2: that's that's something that happened, but it's building exhibitions is

823
00:41:11,605 --> 00:41:14,045
Speaker 2: always a free component, very like most of the time

824
00:41:14,045 --> 00:41:16,445
Speaker 2: the exhibitions are free. If they're not free, they're like

825
00:41:16,445 --> 00:41:20,085
Speaker 2: a five dollar entry or something as accessible as possible.

826
00:41:20,205 --> 00:41:23,805
Speaker 2: And like being able to build something big and then

827
00:41:24,485 --> 00:41:28,365
Speaker 2: allow people who you know, they might not be a

828
00:41:28,365 --> 00:41:30,765
Speaker 2: position to buy art just to be a part of it,

829
00:41:31,085 --> 00:41:33,765
Speaker 2: Like that's really special because, like you said, I always

830
00:41:33,805 --> 00:41:36,605
Speaker 2: feel really uncomfortable going into galleries. I feel looked down

831
00:41:36,685 --> 00:41:38,765
Speaker 2: upon and I'm like, oh shit, they know that we're

832
00:41:38,805 --> 00:41:41,645
Speaker 2: not rich. It's the same walking into luxury brands. And

833
00:41:41,685 --> 00:41:45,485
Speaker 2: I think in my early days of working at Chanelle,

834
00:41:45,485 --> 00:41:47,885
Speaker 2: I really went out of my way to just make everyone.

835
00:41:48,285 --> 00:41:50,845
Speaker 2: I know they weren't coming into buy ten thousand dollar handbag,

836
00:41:50,885 --> 00:41:53,405
Speaker 2: but just give them a great experience, because like, who

837
00:41:53,445 --> 00:41:55,765
Speaker 2: am I? I'm like, I'm owning less money than you,

838
00:41:56,165 --> 00:41:58,645
Speaker 2: so like, come on in, let's try a handbag on.

839
00:41:58,725 --> 00:41:58,885
Speaker 3: You know.

840
00:41:58,965 --> 00:42:01,485
Speaker 2: So it's so the same thing goes with art. You

841
00:42:01,525 --> 00:42:03,685
Speaker 2: can do big things and you don't need to be

842
00:42:03,845 --> 00:42:04,725
Speaker 2: nasty about it.

843
00:42:06,325 --> 00:42:07,685
Speaker 1: That's so true.

844
00:42:08,325 --> 00:42:10,765
Speaker 2: I feel very uncomfortable with the high end art world.

845
00:42:10,805 --> 00:42:13,885
Speaker 2: I don't like how it is. It's always going to

846
00:42:13,885 --> 00:42:15,885
Speaker 2: be that way. It's that way for a reason, but

847
00:42:16,005 --> 00:42:18,325
Speaker 2: I just I've always felt uncomfortable by it, and I've

848
00:42:18,365 --> 00:42:21,845
Speaker 2: always been made to feel small and uncomfortable. I'm like,

849
00:42:21,885 --> 00:42:24,725
Speaker 2: why why do you need to feel uncomfortable around art?

850
00:42:24,805 --> 00:42:26,965
Speaker 1: Like that's not how it's meant to be. What do

851
00:42:27,045 --> 00:42:28,445
Speaker 1: you think that's based on?

852
00:42:28,565 --> 00:42:33,045
Speaker 3: Do you think that's as it's defending.

853
00:42:32,485 --> 00:42:36,605
Speaker 1: The fortress of power? I think it's an old school mentality.

854
00:42:36,885 --> 00:42:38,925
Speaker 2: To sell expensive things, you have to.

855
00:42:38,885 --> 00:42:42,205
Speaker 3: Be rude and not rude, but you know, like you

856
00:42:42,245 --> 00:42:44,845
Speaker 3: know that luxury the best examples when you walk into

857
00:42:44,925 --> 00:42:47,845
Speaker 3: expensive stores it's like they're floating at They're not particularly

858
00:42:47,925 --> 00:42:48,725
Speaker 3: happy or friendly.

859
00:42:48,845 --> 00:42:51,925
Speaker 2: You're like, why I think it's changing, Kate. I think

860
00:42:51,965 --> 00:42:55,165
Speaker 2: things are changing. I think the age like people are

861
00:42:55,165 --> 00:42:58,765
Speaker 2: not in You don't need to make the experience uncomfortable

862
00:42:58,925 --> 00:43:01,405
Speaker 2: to sell things at a higher price point, Like it

863
00:43:01,445 --> 00:43:04,965
Speaker 2: can be a beautiful, friendly experience, you know, like that's

864
00:43:04,965 --> 00:43:08,285
Speaker 2: what we're learning. It can be accessible. Like my brand

865
00:43:08,365 --> 00:43:11,565
Speaker 2: has things that are low, medium, high, you know, not

866
00:43:11,605 --> 00:43:14,045
Speaker 2: everyone's coming in for the higher stuff. I certainly wouldn't

867
00:43:14,045 --> 00:43:16,685
Speaker 2: buy my expensive art. It's way too expensive, you know,

868
00:43:17,445 --> 00:43:20,765
Speaker 2: thanks to everyone who does. But yeah, I'm a terrible investment.

869
00:43:21,965 --> 00:43:25,925
Speaker 3: But now you must have noticed, well I'm assuming that

870
00:43:25,965 --> 00:43:28,885
Speaker 3: this has happened, is that you were kind of outside

871
00:43:28,965 --> 00:43:33,125
Speaker 3: the mainstream art world for a long time. Now the

872
00:43:33,165 --> 00:43:36,525
Speaker 3: mainstream art world is coming to you.

873
00:43:38,165 --> 00:43:40,645
Speaker 2: Do you know why? I think it is art follows

874
00:43:40,685 --> 00:43:44,525
Speaker 2: money and it's a really gross it's really gross. But

875
00:43:45,045 --> 00:43:49,205
Speaker 2: there's only so long that the like the bigger, higher

876
00:43:49,325 --> 00:43:51,925
Speaker 2: end art world. I just this is just the way

877
00:43:51,965 --> 00:43:55,205
Speaker 2: things are moving. And like I said before, like works

878
00:43:55,525 --> 00:43:57,965
Speaker 2: above two hundred thousand, above a million are not moving

879
00:43:57,965 --> 00:44:01,245
Speaker 2: at the volume that they once did, and the people

880
00:44:01,325 --> 00:44:05,765
Speaker 2: and gallerists are interested in this different group of people

881
00:44:05,765 --> 00:44:08,325
Speaker 2: who are buying art. They don't need to be interested

882
00:44:08,365 --> 00:44:10,805
Speaker 2: in warholes. They might be interested in other artists that

883
00:44:10,805 --> 00:44:14,965
Speaker 2: they've found on Etsy, your Instagram or whatever that might be.

884
00:44:15,005 --> 00:44:16,485
Speaker 2: You know, it's changing shift.

885
00:44:16,725 --> 00:44:20,725
Speaker 1: They're like, we can share ten thousand such flowers. Yeah,

886
00:44:21,125 --> 00:44:22,525
Speaker 1: of your guards exactly.

887
00:44:22,645 --> 00:44:25,045
Speaker 2: So it's like, you know, things are changing and the

888
00:44:25,085 --> 00:44:29,525
Speaker 2: market's changing, and being accessible and friendly is a good thing,

889
00:44:29,645 --> 00:44:33,765
Speaker 2: you know, Like it's not about being unattainable and awkward.

890
00:44:33,845 --> 00:44:35,885
Speaker 1: That's just not relevant anymore.

891
00:44:36,845 --> 00:44:40,205
Speaker 3: But I do think there's a certain purity to what

892
00:44:40,245 --> 00:44:44,725
Speaker 3: you do very kind, Yeah, I just do, or a

893
00:44:44,725 --> 00:44:48,325
Speaker 3: certain integrity or whatever. And I think maybe just because

894
00:44:48,725 --> 00:44:54,205
Speaker 3: it sort of comes so from yourself, I'm curious about

895
00:44:54,205 --> 00:44:57,885
Speaker 3: how then when you get these other attendant you know,

896
00:44:58,005 --> 00:45:01,325
Speaker 3: when you're offered all the bounty of the world and

897
00:45:01,365 --> 00:45:06,885
Speaker 3: the accolades and the knighthood of revered artists, Like, how.

898
00:45:06,805 --> 00:45:08,405
Speaker 1: Do you keep your channel clear?

899
00:45:09,325 --> 00:45:13,165
Speaker 2: I think that's so funny that even comes up. It's

900
00:45:13,285 --> 00:45:16,245
Speaker 2: just the channel clear is like if you get complacent

901
00:45:16,605 --> 00:45:18,845
Speaker 2: and you think you've made it, that's like the end.

902
00:45:18,885 --> 00:45:21,285
Speaker 1: That's the end. Wrap up shop, you.

903
00:45:21,245 --> 00:45:22,805
Speaker 2: Know what I mean. It's like we've still there's so

904
00:45:22,925 --> 00:45:25,445
Speaker 2: much to do, Like there's so much to do, We're

905
00:45:25,485 --> 00:45:28,525
Speaker 2: so busy doing stuff, like not for a second are

906
00:45:28,525 --> 00:45:31,685
Speaker 2: we sitting down or am I sitting down to say joh,

907
00:45:31,805 --> 00:45:32,605
Speaker 2: jolly good job?

908
00:45:32,765 --> 00:45:35,245
Speaker 1: Like it kiss a shit, shut the fuck up, like

909
00:45:35,725 --> 00:45:37,925
Speaker 1: keep get to work, like why are you late?

910
00:45:38,285 --> 00:45:40,525
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Like that's so it's just

911
00:45:40,805 --> 00:45:43,605
Speaker 2: I find that a really useless way to think and be.

912
00:45:44,005 --> 00:45:46,765
Speaker 2: And you would have seen it a million times everyone has.

913
00:45:46,805 --> 00:45:50,405
Speaker 2: It's like people get an inch of notoriety and then

914
00:45:50,565 --> 00:45:51,845
Speaker 2: they take a step back.

915
00:45:51,685 --> 00:45:53,965
Speaker 1: And then they gone, You're like where was where was

916
00:45:53,965 --> 00:45:54,405
Speaker 1: that person?

917
00:45:54,525 --> 00:45:56,565
Speaker 2: You know? And it's like, well, because they got lazy,

918
00:45:56,605 --> 00:46:00,085
Speaker 2: they've got complacent. You know. I'm a worker. I love working.

919
00:46:00,845 --> 00:46:03,965
Speaker 2: Work brings me so much joy being busy doing something.

920
00:46:04,485 --> 00:46:08,525
Speaker 2: It doesn't even need to be particularly aggressible, being just pottering.

921
00:46:08,765 --> 00:46:13,525
Speaker 2: I love always doing something, doing a craft, Like you know,

922
00:46:13,765 --> 00:46:16,045
Speaker 2: we're always doing something in that studio.

923
00:46:16,645 --> 00:46:19,325
Speaker 3: I want you to do even though it doesn't matter

924
00:46:19,365 --> 00:46:21,565
Speaker 3: what I want you to do, but I just love

925
00:46:21,685 --> 00:46:22,605
Speaker 3: you to keep.

926
00:46:22,405 --> 00:46:23,405
Speaker 1: Doing what you're doing.

927
00:46:23,605 --> 00:46:26,085
Speaker 3: I hope so if one day you decide again to

928
00:46:26,125 --> 00:46:27,845
Speaker 3: do another copyright infringement.

929
00:46:27,925 --> 00:46:30,085
Speaker 1: Oh we might bring it back. Gosh, you'd make people

930
00:46:30,485 --> 00:46:33,845
Speaker 1: let's do it? Why what would you? Yeah, because you've

931
00:46:33,845 --> 00:46:36,005
Speaker 1: asked so nicely, why.

932
00:46:35,845 --> 00:46:39,165
Speaker 2: Don't I just say, because you've asked, just with your

933
00:46:39,205 --> 00:46:42,245
Speaker 2: best ask, why don't I just say, yeah, fuck it,

934
00:46:42,245 --> 00:46:43,165
Speaker 2: will do it next year?

935
00:46:43,325 --> 00:46:43,925
Speaker 1: How about that?

936
00:46:44,245 --> 00:46:47,925
Speaker 3: And you can hold me to it for astrata and

937
00:46:47,965 --> 00:46:50,885
Speaker 3: then anyone this podcast said, but you said, and then

938
00:46:50,885 --> 00:46:51,565
Speaker 3: you can hold me to it.

939
00:46:51,725 --> 00:46:54,125
Speaker 1: Why not let's do it? Yes, yeah, that sounds like

940
00:46:54,245 --> 00:46:56,285
Speaker 1: that's right. And then I'll be like, she's not taking

941
00:46:56,325 --> 00:46:58,485
Speaker 1: my course? Why not?

942
00:46:58,685 --> 00:47:00,725
Speaker 2: Like that's what I mean, Like we don't plan to

943
00:47:00,765 --> 00:47:02,925
Speaker 2: for a head, I'm like, fuck it. Give the people

944
00:47:02,925 --> 00:47:05,205
Speaker 2: what they want. If they want a copyright infringement. Copyright

945
00:47:05,205 --> 00:47:06,405
Speaker 2: infringement is what they'll get.

946
00:47:06,965 --> 00:47:10,165
Speaker 1: Why not infringe your way, baby, CJ.

947
00:47:10,325 --> 00:47:14,805
Speaker 3: What I am curious about is and because your technique

948
00:47:14,325 --> 00:47:20,565
Speaker 3: of your hyperrealism of making things look it's almost magical

949
00:47:20,645 --> 00:47:23,645
Speaker 3: that you look at something go but surely that's liquid

950
00:47:23,685 --> 00:47:26,525
Speaker 3: and it's not it's flat on paper. I know people

951
00:47:26,605 --> 00:47:29,085
Speaker 3: like to say your art is amazing, that it is,

952
00:47:32,405 --> 00:47:36,285
Speaker 3: but how do you feel about AI? Because you know

953
00:47:36,485 --> 00:47:40,525
Speaker 3: somewhere someone's loaded all your art works up and there's

954
00:47:41,085 --> 00:47:45,205
Speaker 3: there's some robots somewhere going I can see J Hendry like,

955
00:47:45,285 --> 00:47:46,245
Speaker 3: so I use.

956
00:47:46,165 --> 00:47:49,205
Speaker 2: AI to help come up with you know, mood boards

957
00:47:49,245 --> 00:47:51,685
Speaker 2: or concepts and things like that. I think AI is

958
00:47:51,725 --> 00:47:54,805
Speaker 2: a beautiful tool to use, and if people want to

959
00:47:54,845 --> 00:47:58,805
Speaker 2: make fake CJ. Hendries and sign them, go for it,

960
00:47:59,245 --> 00:48:02,085
Speaker 2: Like it doesn't bother me. Certainly doesn't bother me in

961
00:48:02,125 --> 00:48:06,205
Speaker 2: the slightest. I think AI what AI can't do. AI

962
00:48:06,325 --> 00:48:12,485
Speaker 2: can't build your building. AI can't make, you know, make

963
00:48:12,525 --> 00:48:14,845
Speaker 2: it a real drawing on the piece, but they can

964
00:48:14,885 --> 00:48:17,685
Speaker 2: do a print out. They can do a rendering of

965
00:48:18,085 --> 00:48:20,125
Speaker 2: what wasn't original, you know what I mean. So it's

966
00:48:20,165 --> 00:48:23,445
Speaker 2: like it's like people can make fake Oma's handbags, but

967
00:48:23,485 --> 00:48:24,525
Speaker 2: it's still not the real one.

968
00:48:24,605 --> 00:48:25,805
Speaker 1: So it's like, if.

969
00:48:25,725 --> 00:48:29,045
Speaker 2: People want to just do an AIC Jane Framant, I'm like,

970
00:48:29,685 --> 00:48:32,445
Speaker 2: go for it, Like it's just doesn't bother me, you know,

971
00:48:33,085 --> 00:48:34,805
Speaker 2: and I asked it just a beautiful tool. But I

972
00:48:34,845 --> 00:48:38,045
Speaker 2: think building things in reality is now more interesting than ever,

973
00:48:38,405 --> 00:48:40,405
Speaker 2: you know, like not just the drawing side, but when

974
00:48:40,405 --> 00:48:43,805
Speaker 2: we're building bigger exhibitions and concepts, Like sometimes people look

975
00:48:43,805 --> 00:48:45,485
Speaker 2: at the photos that are like, oh my god, Like I

976
00:48:45,525 --> 00:48:47,885
Speaker 2: think last year we built a swimming pool in the desert,

977
00:48:48,165 --> 00:48:52,085
Speaker 2: which was a fucking clusterfug but it looks like AI

978
00:48:52,445 --> 00:48:54,725
Speaker 2: like because it's like that swimming pool is not meant

979
00:48:54,765 --> 00:48:57,045
Speaker 2: to be in the middle of nowhere. So we're kind

980
00:48:57,045 --> 00:49:00,365
Speaker 2: of my whole prep pre Like, my premise for building

981
00:49:00,445 --> 00:49:04,445
Speaker 2: these exhibitions is kind of building these artificial realities so

982
00:49:04,485 --> 00:49:06,965
Speaker 2: people can walk through them and experience them in real life.

983
00:49:07,205 --> 00:49:09,085
Speaker 2: So that's really important to me. So, yeah, you can

984
00:49:09,085 --> 00:49:11,805
Speaker 2: build something online all day long, but we were just

985
00:49:11,845 --> 00:49:14,085
Speaker 2: talking about before, like shopping in a shopping center. It's

986
00:49:14,125 --> 00:49:17,765
Speaker 2: like you can shop online, but doing things with people

987
00:49:18,405 --> 00:49:21,805
Speaker 2: and going to an exhibition is so important, you know.

988
00:49:21,965 --> 00:49:25,165
Speaker 2: And yeah, you could buy my ard online, but going

989
00:49:25,205 --> 00:49:26,885
Speaker 2: and experiencing it it's a different thing.

990
00:49:27,805 --> 00:49:28,325
Speaker 1: I must say.

991
00:49:28,325 --> 00:49:31,085
Speaker 3: There would be a delicious irony if you had to

992
00:49:31,165 --> 00:49:33,805
Speaker 3: sue AI for copyright infringement.

993
00:49:34,325 --> 00:49:38,645
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I never would n Oh my god, Kate,

994
00:49:38,685 --> 00:49:42,405
Speaker 2: You've given me an idea. What are I like, do

995
00:49:42,485 --> 00:49:46,165
Speaker 2: a cj AI and then I rip it all.

996
00:49:46,765 --> 00:49:50,125
Speaker 1: I don't know there's something in there that copyright Next

997
00:49:50,165 --> 00:49:51,925
Speaker 1: year Infinity Mirrors.

998
00:49:52,685 --> 00:49:55,245
Speaker 2: Yeah, there we go so that there's something in that.

999
00:49:55,445 --> 00:49:58,805
Speaker 2: So I don't know, or maybe I'll just oh, here's one.

1000
00:49:58,845 --> 00:50:01,445
Speaker 2: This will be really easy for me. I'll just do

1001
00:50:01,565 --> 00:50:04,565
Speaker 2: AI cjs and try and flog them as originals and

1002
00:50:04,605 --> 00:50:06,005
Speaker 2: see if anyone can tell the difference.

1003
00:50:06,085 --> 00:50:08,765
Speaker 1: There you go, there go, and then I'll buy one

1004
00:50:08,765 --> 00:50:16,125
Speaker 1: and I'll I don't know.

1005
00:50:16,205 --> 00:50:18,885
Speaker 2: I just think, Kate, like, this is the world, this

1006
00:50:18,925 --> 00:50:21,365
Speaker 2: is where we live, and you just work with it.

1007
00:50:21,445 --> 00:50:24,285
Speaker 2: Like people, you can fight against stuff while you're wasting

1008
00:50:24,285 --> 00:50:24,805
Speaker 2: your energy.

1009
00:50:25,165 --> 00:50:27,485
Speaker 1: You know, it's not like what we're going to shut.

1010
00:50:27,325 --> 00:50:28,525
Speaker 2: Down AI, noing on.

1011
00:50:28,565 --> 00:50:30,925
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful thing. Just use it, embrace it and

1012
00:50:30,965 --> 00:50:36,805
Speaker 1: get on with it. That was CJ.

1013
00:50:37,045 --> 00:50:43,365
Speaker 3: Hendry, an utter Australian delight, as delightful as the Lamington,

1014
00:50:43,845 --> 00:50:49,165
Speaker 3: no fuss, no ego, just head down, bum up, making

1015
00:50:49,325 --> 00:50:53,965
Speaker 3: extraordinary things happen, and somehow kind of making them feel easy.

1016
00:50:54,925 --> 00:50:58,405
Speaker 3: What struck me most about CJ is in a world,

1017
00:50:58,525 --> 00:51:02,325
Speaker 3: the art world, that can be so intimidating or exclusive,

1018
00:51:03,405 --> 00:51:07,485
Speaker 3: it's her refusal to play by anyone else's rules. She's

1019
00:51:07,525 --> 00:51:10,445
Speaker 3: not trying to be accepted by the art world because

1020
00:51:10,485 --> 00:51:15,005
Speaker 3: she's too busy building her own. The executive producer of

1021
00:51:15,045 --> 00:51:19,125
Speaker 3: No Filter is Nama Brown. The senior producer is bre Player.

1022
00:51:19,765 --> 00:51:23,325
Speaker 3: Sound design and editing by Jacob Brown and I am

1023
00:51:23,365 --> 00:51:24,965
Speaker 3: your host, Kate lane Brook.

1024
00:51:25,565 --> 00:51:27,045
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing