1
00:00:10,622 --> 00:00:13,341
Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

2
00:00:13,822 --> 00:00:17,182
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

3
00:00:17,222 --> 00:00:21,102
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on the amount of times

4
00:00:21,102 --> 00:00:23,702
Speaker 2: I've landed up at the airport but nowhere to go.

5
00:00:23,862 --> 00:00:26,701
Speaker 3: No, it's bad when you see a plane. This is

6
00:00:26,781 --> 00:00:28,262
Speaker 3: not the destiny. Someone fix this.

7
00:00:28,382 --> 00:00:30,141
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's the phone people, or if

8
00:00:30,142 --> 00:00:32,102
Speaker 2: it's the GPS people or the space people.

9
00:00:32,182 --> 00:00:33,461
Speaker 3: Someone needs to fix this.

10
00:00:37,902 --> 00:00:40,662
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to MoMA Mia out Loud and to

11
00:00:40,742 --> 00:00:43,462
Speaker 1: our Friday show where we step outside of the news

12
00:00:43,462 --> 00:00:46,542
Speaker 1: cycle just watch it go by and talk about something

13
00:00:46,542 --> 00:00:49,702
Speaker 1: else instead. Today is Friday, the sixth of June, and

14
00:00:49,742 --> 00:00:51,062
Speaker 1: I'm Holly Wainwright.

15
00:00:50,822 --> 00:00:53,022
Speaker 3: I'm Jesse Stephen, and i'mm Burnham.

16
00:00:53,062 --> 00:00:57,422
Speaker 1: An on today's show, a famous mother and a treacherous daughter.

17
00:00:57,822 --> 00:01:00,542
Speaker 1: That's one way of looking at a new book about dementia.

18
00:01:00,662 --> 00:01:04,582
Speaker 1: This sparked a big conversation. Also, do you want a

19
00:01:04,622 --> 00:01:07,622
Speaker 1: big life or a little one? What's the difference on

20
00:01:07,661 --> 00:01:09,541
Speaker 1: which one of us is lying when we give our answer,

21
00:01:10,301 --> 00:01:12,862
Speaker 1: Plus recommendations for your mouth and ears, and our best

22
00:01:12,902 --> 00:01:15,942
Speaker 1: and worst of the week. But first, Emily Vernon, in case.

23
00:01:15,782 --> 00:01:19,542
Speaker 2: You missed it, astrology readings aren't working anymore. Oh, so

24
00:01:19,622 --> 00:01:21,222
Speaker 2: it's time we start buying spells.

25
00:01:21,582 --> 00:01:22,542
Speaker 1: Oh okay.

26
00:01:22,702 --> 00:01:26,542
Speaker 2: People are purchasing and I'm assuming using spells on Etsy,

27
00:01:26,822 --> 00:01:31,422
Speaker 2: which are usually sold by professional witches. So Etsy witches

28
00:01:31,422 --> 00:01:34,462
Speaker 2: are the new girl bosses. They're making bank selling spells

29
00:01:34,542 --> 00:01:36,262
Speaker 2: up to one thousand dollars.

30
00:01:36,382 --> 00:01:39,022
Speaker 3: Okay, I have like many questions.

31
00:01:39,462 --> 00:01:42,022
Speaker 2: Okay, start with what I'll find some spells. I find

32
00:01:42,022 --> 00:01:44,382
Speaker 2: some spells for you. So some spells I've seen are

33
00:01:44,422 --> 00:01:48,182
Speaker 2: permanent black magic removal. This spell is currently on sale

34
00:01:48,182 --> 00:01:51,582
Speaker 2: for three hundred dollars, down from six thirty, and I

35
00:01:51,662 --> 00:01:54,462
Speaker 2: reckon we should get our savings together and buying this.

36
00:01:54,382 --> 00:01:55,822
Speaker 1: Because it seems like suggesting.

37
00:01:55,942 --> 00:01:59,742
Speaker 2: There's over eight hundred verified reviews on this spell. One

38
00:01:59,782 --> 00:02:03,142
Speaker 2: review said, my experience with the seller and the service

39
00:02:03,182 --> 00:02:06,662
Speaker 2: has been fantastic. This is my third time purchasing, and

40
00:02:06,702 --> 00:02:08,302
Speaker 2: I'm very happy with the results.

41
00:02:08,341 --> 00:02:10,142
Speaker 1: So this person has had to get of black magic

42
00:02:10,222 --> 00:02:12,381
Speaker 1: air three times? What do I get when I buy

43
00:02:12,382 --> 00:02:13,182
Speaker 1: a spell on Etsy?

44
00:02:13,382 --> 00:02:15,341
Speaker 2: So you get a one on one with the witch?

45
00:02:15,662 --> 00:02:15,982
Speaker 1: Oh?

46
00:02:16,222 --> 00:02:18,022
Speaker 3: I thought I might get a poem and she prefers,

47
00:02:18,062 --> 00:02:19,782
Speaker 3: and then I would just have to say the poem

48
00:02:19,822 --> 00:02:20,302
Speaker 3: and then.

49
00:02:20,422 --> 00:02:22,742
Speaker 2: Well, a lot of them include documents that you get

50
00:02:22,942 --> 00:02:25,142
Speaker 2: on the same day, very fast delivery with these services.

51
00:02:25,181 --> 00:02:27,782
Speaker 2: I've also found a job spell that you can get

52
00:02:27,822 --> 00:02:30,502
Speaker 2: for thirteen dollars, down from fifty three. One of the

53
00:02:30,542 --> 00:02:34,022
Speaker 2: reviews was five stars. Found a job shortly after. Okay,

54
00:02:34,422 --> 00:02:36,462
Speaker 2: it's working out well, and you guys are like this

55
00:02:36,502 --> 00:02:41,381
Speaker 2: one demonic love binding spell fast results seven hundred and

56
00:02:41,462 --> 00:02:45,022
Speaker 2: sixty dollars down from over one thousand. This one review,

57
00:02:45,302 --> 00:02:49,621
Speaker 2: he's miserable right now back on his mama's couch. Five stars.

58
00:02:50,342 --> 00:02:51,821
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Yeah.

59
00:02:51,542 --> 00:02:52,182
Speaker 3: It's working.

60
00:02:52,382 --> 00:02:56,142
Speaker 1: So I heard about Etsy Witch because there's a big

61
00:02:56,222 --> 00:02:59,102
Speaker 1: TikTok person who got married recently. It was this ringing

62
00:02:59,102 --> 00:03:02,582
Speaker 1: only bell someone called Jasmine Jazzline something. Anyway, in her

63
00:03:02,702 --> 00:03:05,422
Speaker 1: many many tiktoks about it, she said she got an

64
00:03:05,502 --> 00:03:09,022
Speaker 1: Exi witch, an Etsy Witch, not an exi witch right

65
00:03:09,062 --> 00:03:12,061
Speaker 1: in a ford a wish from Etsy to cast a

66
00:03:12,222 --> 00:03:15,702
Speaker 1: no rain spell over her day. Smart and apparently lots

67
00:03:15,742 --> 00:03:16,662
Speaker 1: of people are doing this.

68
00:03:16,782 --> 00:03:17,742
Speaker 3: Now, well, did it work?

69
00:03:17,982 --> 00:03:20,302
Speaker 1: Didn't rain? But maybe it wasn't going to rain. And

70
00:03:20,342 --> 00:03:22,022
Speaker 1: if it does rain, do you get your money back?

71
00:03:22,102 --> 00:03:22,502
Speaker 1: I don't know.

72
00:03:22,582 --> 00:03:25,542
Speaker 3: That's a great question. Now. I saw a psyekic in

73
00:03:25,662 --> 00:03:30,222
Speaker 3: New York once who offered to do a spell. Did

74
00:03:30,262 --> 00:03:32,822
Speaker 3: you willingly go see this site? Did I willingly go?

75
00:03:32,982 --> 00:03:37,542
Speaker 3: Absolutely speared up? I went in. It was just a

76
00:03:37,582 --> 00:03:40,622
Speaker 3: woman's home. She said, you have a love curse on you.

77
00:03:40,902 --> 00:03:42,702
Speaker 3: This was I was single, and she said you have

78
00:03:42,742 --> 00:03:45,942
Speaker 3: a curse, and you were like, I knew it. You're

79
00:03:45,942 --> 00:03:48,342
Speaker 3: speaking my language. And then she said I can undo

80
00:03:48,422 --> 00:03:50,422
Speaker 3: this curse. And I was like, well, I'm here, let's

81
00:03:50,462 --> 00:03:52,822
Speaker 3: do it. And she said no, no, no, you have

82
00:03:52,902 --> 00:03:55,502
Speaker 3: to buy twenty candles and we have to do like

83
00:03:55,742 --> 00:03:58,062
Speaker 3: conferences constantly to get rid of the curse. And I

84
00:03:58,142 --> 00:04:00,622
Speaker 3: was like, I don't like saying no, but I'm absolutely

85
00:04:00,662 --> 00:04:02,702
Speaker 3: saying no to you on this one. And I think

86
00:04:02,742 --> 00:04:06,982
Speaker 3: I just undid the curse myself the curse or maybe

87
00:04:07,022 --> 00:04:09,062
Speaker 3: you were the witch the whole time. Maybe I was

88
00:04:09,102 --> 00:04:11,222
Speaker 3: the witch the whole time exactly.

89
00:04:11,142 --> 00:04:13,822
Speaker 1: Etsy Witch? Is that sounds like a new career move.

90
00:04:13,902 --> 00:04:15,662
Speaker 3: There was one that I saw which was if you

91
00:04:15,742 --> 00:04:19,021
Speaker 3: want someone to break no contact, so let's say em,

92
00:04:19,062 --> 00:04:21,501
Speaker 3: there's someone in your past who you want to reach out.

93
00:04:21,702 --> 00:04:21,902
Speaker 1: Yeah?

94
00:04:21,981 --> 00:04:24,101
Speaker 2: Right, So I was interested in this demonic love.

95
00:04:24,421 --> 00:04:27,622
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, what you do is you can get an

96
00:04:27,621 --> 00:04:31,062
Speaker 3: Etsy witch to put this no contact spell on it,

97
00:04:31,061 --> 00:04:32,622
Speaker 3: and then they'll reach out to you, right and all

98
00:04:32,662 --> 00:04:34,861
Speaker 3: you need to do is send them the person's birthday

99
00:04:34,981 --> 00:04:36,981
Speaker 3: and their photo. And I was like, this is just

100
00:04:37,022 --> 00:04:39,461
Speaker 3: a scam. Oh, this is just what we're doing. Is

101
00:04:39,462 --> 00:04:41,821
Speaker 3: we're getting all the details about this man and we

102
00:04:41,861 --> 00:04:43,981
Speaker 3: are raiding his bank account. And I'm not against that,

103
00:04:44,582 --> 00:04:46,662
Speaker 3: but we've got to be honest about what we're doing here.

104
00:04:47,582 --> 00:04:51,261
Speaker 3: I spent this week devouring a book called How to

105
00:04:51,381 --> 00:04:56,902
Speaker 3: Lose Your Mother that I found deeply engrossing but also challenging. Now,

106
00:04:57,022 --> 00:04:59,941
Speaker 3: the author her name is Molly Jong Fast and she's

107
00:05:00,022 --> 00:05:02,702
Speaker 3: the daughter of a woman named Erica Jong Holly. Have

108
00:05:02,741 --> 00:05:04,061
Speaker 3: you ever heard of this per Absolutely?

109
00:05:04,222 --> 00:05:07,741
Speaker 1: She wrote a book in the early seventies called Fear

110
00:05:07,741 --> 00:05:10,701
Speaker 1: of Flying that was for like second way feminists, like

111
00:05:10,741 --> 00:05:13,701
Speaker 1: my mom's generation of feminists, a big deal.

112
00:05:13,782 --> 00:05:14,702
Speaker 3: It was about sex.

113
00:05:15,181 --> 00:05:17,981
Speaker 1: Yeah, So she became one of those early seventies like

114
00:05:18,022 --> 00:05:20,142
Speaker 1: feminist icons. And then I think she wrote quite a

115
00:05:20,181 --> 00:05:23,022
Speaker 1: lot of memoir and personal essay.

116
00:05:23,181 --> 00:05:25,541
Speaker 3: She was a big deal of that generation. Had you

117
00:05:25,582 --> 00:05:26,061
Speaker 3: ever heard of her?

118
00:05:26,142 --> 00:05:26,222
Speaker 1: No?

119
00:05:26,501 --> 00:05:28,461
Speaker 3: Okay, I had never heard of her either. M but

120
00:05:28,702 --> 00:05:32,702
Speaker 3: she became very, very famous, and the peak of her

121
00:05:32,741 --> 00:05:35,022
Speaker 3: fame was sort of when her daughter, Molly was born. Right,

122
00:05:35,061 --> 00:05:37,341
Speaker 3: she had one daughter. The book sold more than twenty

123
00:05:37,342 --> 00:05:41,181
Speaker 3: million copies. Right, and Erica wrote memoirs, as you say

124
00:05:41,222 --> 00:05:44,822
Speaker 3: in poetry, and she shared a lot about her daughter.

125
00:05:44,902 --> 00:05:48,421
Speaker 3: She shared intimate details about her life, and Molly writes

126
00:05:48,462 --> 00:05:51,462
Speaker 3: about how her mum became sort of addicted to fame

127
00:05:51,501 --> 00:05:54,822
Speaker 3: and how much it changed her. And the memoir covers

128
00:05:54,902 --> 00:05:57,901
Speaker 3: a lot of ground, but the part that stuck with

129
00:05:58,061 --> 00:06:01,142
Speaker 3: me was how Molly she is now forty six, she's

130
00:06:01,181 --> 00:06:03,462
Speaker 3: a journalist in her own right, does podcasts and stuff.

131
00:06:03,861 --> 00:06:06,422
Speaker 3: She writes about her mother's dementia because Erica is now

132
00:06:06,462 --> 00:06:09,981
Speaker 3: eighty three and they have a very complicated relationship. But

133
00:06:10,022 --> 00:06:14,302
Speaker 3: there are details in the book about Erica and her

134
00:06:14,301 --> 00:06:17,702
Speaker 3: diagnosis of dementia and the early signs of it and

135
00:06:17,741 --> 00:06:21,222
Speaker 3: how she lives now. So for example, there's a story

136
00:06:21,381 --> 00:06:24,862
Speaker 3: about Molly finding fecal matter in her bed, about how

137
00:06:24,902 --> 00:06:27,501
Speaker 3: badly her mother began to smell because she wouldn't shower,

138
00:06:28,462 --> 00:06:31,782
Speaker 3: And maybe it's because she writes about how much her

139
00:06:31,821 --> 00:06:35,221
Speaker 3: mother cared about what people thought about her that I've

140
00:06:35,301 --> 00:06:38,861
Speaker 3: been bristling. I've been reading these details, thinking, your mother's

141
00:06:38,861 --> 00:06:41,662
Speaker 3: still alive, even though she probably wouldn't be able to

142
00:06:41,702 --> 00:06:46,741
Speaker 3: read this book. And I'm wondering how we feel about

143
00:06:46,741 --> 00:06:49,422
Speaker 3: those details being shared about someone else. And then as

144
00:06:49,462 --> 00:06:51,501
Speaker 3: I was reading this, I listened to last week's No Filter,

145
00:06:52,101 --> 00:06:57,462
Speaker 3: katelang Brook interviewed Graciotto about her documentary that is critically acclaimed.

146
00:06:57,462 --> 00:07:00,662
Speaker 3: It's called Otto Bioto and it follows her father's diagnosis

147
00:07:00,702 --> 00:07:04,342
Speaker 3: of Alzheimer's disease and what it's done to him. M

148
00:07:04,421 --> 00:07:07,022
Speaker 3: I think this is a question that's going to get

149
00:07:07,501 --> 00:07:10,062
Speaker 3: more and more urgent in our culture, which is how

150
00:07:10,142 --> 00:07:15,662
Speaker 3: much of dementia or Alzheimer's is our story, as whether

151
00:07:15,742 --> 00:07:18,941
Speaker 3: it's cares or loved ones, how much of it is

152
00:07:18,941 --> 00:07:19,781
Speaker 3: our story to tell.

153
00:07:20,222 --> 00:07:24,342
Speaker 2: Recently, someone in my life was diagnosed with dementia, and

154
00:07:24,582 --> 00:07:28,141
Speaker 2: it's been such a recent but massive adjustment to me

155
00:07:28,422 --> 00:07:31,782
Speaker 2: and my family. And it feels like after they were diagnosed,

156
00:07:32,102 --> 00:07:35,502
Speaker 2: it became immediately worse, and it's getting faster and faster

157
00:07:35,542 --> 00:07:39,701
Speaker 2: and getting worse and worse. And it's that time where

158
00:07:39,982 --> 00:07:42,941
Speaker 2: not everyone is aware except the people close to them.

159
00:07:43,622 --> 00:07:47,901
Speaker 2: And I always thought growing up that dementia was really simple,

160
00:07:48,022 --> 00:07:50,422
Speaker 2: where like if someone had dementia just means they forgot things.

161
00:07:50,862 --> 00:07:52,502
Speaker 2: And now I realized it's not true that there's so

162
00:07:52,502 --> 00:07:55,342
Speaker 2: many different types of dementia, and the dementia that this

163
00:07:55,381 --> 00:07:57,302
Speaker 2: person has in my life is that they don't just

164
00:07:57,342 --> 00:08:00,022
Speaker 2: forget things, but they just make things up, which is

165
00:08:00,182 --> 00:08:02,782
Speaker 2: really hard. And one of the things that happened was

166
00:08:02,821 --> 00:08:05,742
Speaker 2: because we were like on tour together and stuff, I

167
00:08:05,782 --> 00:08:08,502
Speaker 2: think they saw a video of me on stage and

168
00:08:08,542 --> 00:08:11,781
Speaker 2: then told a lot of people that I was on TV.

169
00:08:12,582 --> 00:08:14,141
Speaker 2: And then I was just getting all these messages and

170
00:08:14,222 --> 00:08:16,862
Speaker 2: calls congratulating me that I was on TV. It was

171
00:08:16,941 --> 00:08:20,302
Speaker 2: just really interesting. But there's been so many more severe

172
00:08:20,342 --> 00:08:24,261
Speaker 2: assumptions they've been making about family members, and it feels

173
00:08:24,622 --> 00:08:27,782
Speaker 2: like I can't say anything because I don't want to

174
00:08:27,821 --> 00:08:31,062
Speaker 2: start the morning period yet, because I'm not in that

175
00:08:31,102 --> 00:08:33,862
Speaker 2: phase yet, and they're still very much alive and still

176
00:08:33,942 --> 00:08:36,342
Speaker 2: very much aware and still know who we are, and

177
00:08:36,342 --> 00:08:39,302
Speaker 2: they can still read and write and watch TV and

178
00:08:39,342 --> 00:08:43,142
Speaker 2: things like that, and I just don't ever ever want

179
00:08:43,182 --> 00:08:45,222
Speaker 2: to embarrass them because one of the things that their

180
00:08:45,222 --> 00:08:48,022
Speaker 2: doctor said was if you keep correcting them and then

181
00:08:48,022 --> 00:08:50,142
Speaker 2: they keep gett embarrassed, they'll never want to come out

182
00:08:50,382 --> 00:08:52,342
Speaker 2: in society anymore and they will only want to stay

183
00:08:52,342 --> 00:08:54,222
Speaker 2: at home. And this person in my life is someone

184
00:08:54,262 --> 00:08:57,462
Speaker 2: who loves being out, loves people. So it's kind of

185
00:08:57,502 --> 00:09:00,822
Speaker 2: those adjustments that is just something that we just have

186
00:09:00,902 --> 00:09:02,982
Speaker 2: to deal with now, because the last thing I'd want

187
00:09:03,022 --> 00:09:05,102
Speaker 2: is to tell their story like it's mine.

188
00:09:05,342 --> 00:09:09,022
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a specific kind of experience because we are

189
00:09:09,062 --> 00:09:12,102
Speaker 3: all going that way, like as in, we're all getting

190
00:09:12,142 --> 00:09:15,342
Speaker 3: older and older every day, and the rates of dementia

191
00:09:15,342 --> 00:09:18,902
Speaker 3: and Alzheimer's are increasing because of how much longer we're

192
00:09:18,902 --> 00:09:21,142
Speaker 3: all living. So there's like this fear of it. And

193
00:09:21,182 --> 00:09:24,622
Speaker 3: maybe when I see these stories, I think I wouldn't

194
00:09:24,662 --> 00:09:28,102
Speaker 3: want someone to tell my story at a time when

195
00:09:28,102 --> 00:09:32,342
Speaker 3: I've lost my independence, when I'm doing things that wouldn't

196
00:09:32,382 --> 00:09:35,102
Speaker 3: necessarily be consistent with the way I would ordinarily live

197
00:09:35,182 --> 00:09:38,782
Speaker 3: my life. I'm finding it difficult to work out where

198
00:09:38,822 --> 00:09:41,902
Speaker 3: the line is between a care of being seen and

199
00:09:41,982 --> 00:09:43,622
Speaker 3: also affording that person dignity.

200
00:09:43,782 --> 00:09:47,342
Speaker 1: I think an inelegant way of looking at this particular

201
00:09:47,782 --> 00:09:53,662
Speaker 1: story about Molly and Erica Jong is couldn't Molly.

202
00:09:53,462 --> 00:09:55,702
Speaker 3: Have waited a little while, perhaps do.

203
00:09:55,702 --> 00:09:59,062
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, because it's likely, isn't it

204
00:09:59,142 --> 00:10:01,822
Speaker 1: that she wouldn't have to wait that long. But on

205
00:10:01,862 --> 00:10:05,702
Speaker 1: the other hand, this is a very specific story in

206
00:10:05,742 --> 00:10:08,262
Speaker 1: that if her mother mind her life, there has to

207
00:10:08,302 --> 00:10:10,942
Speaker 1: be an element of not riv but like, well, you

208
00:10:10,982 --> 00:10:11,662
Speaker 1: get what you get.

209
00:10:11,742 --> 00:10:13,102
Speaker 3: And she said that yes, And.

210
00:10:13,022 --> 00:10:15,502
Speaker 1: I have total sympathy for that because it would be

211
00:10:15,702 --> 00:10:18,422
Speaker 1: very difficult for her. And the other thing I have

212
00:10:19,382 --> 00:10:22,222
Speaker 1: sympathy for, and this is always the case when you're

213
00:10:22,222 --> 00:10:25,782
Speaker 1: talking about something complicated that involves someone else, and particularly

214
00:10:25,822 --> 00:10:29,182
Speaker 1: caring for people, whether they're children, or whether they're sick,

215
00:10:29,302 --> 00:10:33,262
Speaker 1: or whether they're elderly, it's really difficult and isolating. I've

216
00:10:33,302 --> 00:10:35,462
Speaker 1: got good friends, I mean, like all of us, there

217
00:10:35,462 --> 00:10:37,342
Speaker 1: are people in my life who've been through dementia or

218
00:10:37,582 --> 00:10:41,302
Speaker 1: have dementia. But I've got good friends who've nursed parents

219
00:10:41,742 --> 00:10:47,902
Speaker 1: through horrific things with dementia. And if they were not

220
00:10:48,022 --> 00:10:51,462
Speaker 1: able to talk about those things, I don't mean write

221
00:10:51,502 --> 00:10:54,662
Speaker 1: a book about it necessarily, but it's a gift to

222
00:10:54,742 --> 00:10:57,502
Speaker 1: be able to share when you're in a very isolated place.

223
00:10:57,542 --> 00:10:59,942
Speaker 1: It's a gift to make other people feel seen by that.

224
00:11:00,822 --> 00:11:04,622
Speaker 1: And it is complicated because there's someone in my life

225
00:11:04,662 --> 00:11:07,261
Speaker 1: who says that, for example, that their relationship with their

226
00:11:07,262 --> 00:11:10,342
Speaker 1: mother is actually better now that she has because she's

227
00:11:10,422 --> 00:11:13,462
Speaker 1: less angry and difficult, because their relationship was angry and

228
00:11:13,502 --> 00:11:16,102
Speaker 1: difficult now. Is that person not supposed to say that?

229
00:11:16,142 --> 00:11:17,622
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? Like? I think real

230
00:11:17,702 --> 00:11:20,702
Speaker 1: life and aging and illness, all these things are really complex.

231
00:11:21,982 --> 00:11:24,822
Speaker 1: The going public is complicated, of course it is. But

232
00:11:25,342 --> 00:11:27,902
Speaker 1: having said that, I interviewed this amazing woman on mid

233
00:11:27,942 --> 00:11:31,062
Speaker 1: a few months ago called Caroline Baum, who's an incredible writer,

234
00:11:31,182 --> 00:11:34,462
Speaker 1: and she's written about her mother. It's not really dementia,

235
00:11:34,502 --> 00:11:37,261
Speaker 1: but her mother's aging and moving in with her and

236
00:11:37,302 --> 00:11:39,942
Speaker 1: then moving out in nursing homes and stuff. And there's

237
00:11:39,982 --> 00:11:43,182
Speaker 1: no question in doing that. She has sometimes painted her

238
00:11:43,222 --> 00:11:46,742
Speaker 1: mother in a negative light, no question, but it's also

239
00:11:46,822 --> 00:11:50,342
Speaker 1: a really powerful truth. I think we like really neat

240
00:11:50,862 --> 00:11:56,702
Speaker 1: stories about parental relationships. Everybody old is adorable, Everybody who's

241
00:11:56,702 --> 00:12:00,462
Speaker 1: been cared for is grateful, And that's not reality. It's

242
00:12:00,582 --> 00:12:03,662
Speaker 1: not what real relationships are like. They're complicated.

243
00:12:03,862 --> 00:12:06,822
Speaker 3: What you said em about what you are seeing with

244
00:12:06,862 --> 00:12:09,262
Speaker 3: this person that you love isn't what you expected? Is

245
00:12:09,382 --> 00:12:12,422
Speaker 3: I think really interesting because for a lot of people

246
00:12:12,462 --> 00:12:15,462
Speaker 3: who love someone with dementia. You start seeing symptoms and

247
00:12:15,502 --> 00:12:19,222
Speaker 3: you go, is this normal or is this part of

248
00:12:19,262 --> 00:12:22,342
Speaker 3: the dementia or what is it? And so there's real

249
00:12:22,422 --> 00:12:27,502
Speaker 3: solidarity and community in sharing stories and going, hey, those

250
00:12:27,542 --> 00:12:30,302
Speaker 3: outbursts or like, you know, whether it's moments of anger

251
00:12:30,702 --> 00:12:33,742
Speaker 3: are sometimes a stage of it, and that's also sometimes

252
00:12:33,782 --> 00:12:37,222
Speaker 3: a symptom. And I think that that's really helpful. But

253
00:12:37,342 --> 00:12:40,742
Speaker 3: then on the other hand, I think there's probably a

254
00:12:40,902 --> 00:12:45,022
Speaker 3: tention or a question around consent and agency. I remember

255
00:12:45,062 --> 00:12:47,062
Speaker 3: when I was growing up, I had a friend's mum

256
00:12:47,182 --> 00:12:49,422
Speaker 3: who was diagnosed with terminal cancer, and she did this

257
00:12:49,462 --> 00:12:52,342
Speaker 3: interview on television talking about that experience having little kids

258
00:12:52,702 --> 00:12:56,542
Speaker 3: and dying of cancer. I've never ever forgotten that interview,

259
00:12:56,662 --> 00:13:00,702
Speaker 3: like it was so moving. The thing with dementia is

260
00:13:00,742 --> 00:13:03,022
Speaker 3: that no one can tell you what it's like. No

261
00:13:03,102 --> 00:13:05,702
Speaker 3: one can really like maybe in the early moments you

262
00:13:05,702 --> 00:13:09,742
Speaker 3: can have people go I'm terrified. This is the same

263
00:13:09,902 --> 00:13:13,502
Speaker 3: in certain disability communities that if people don't speak on

264
00:13:13,542 --> 00:13:18,782
Speaker 3: your behalf, you get totally lost. That's really hard because

265
00:13:18,782 --> 00:13:21,662
Speaker 3: I don't know. I've spoken about my grandfather with dementia,

266
00:13:21,742 --> 00:13:24,262
Speaker 3: like I don't know how much he is consenting to

267
00:13:24,302 --> 00:13:27,582
Speaker 3: anything anymore. And that's really hard when we think about

268
00:13:27,582 --> 00:13:29,141
Speaker 3: independence and agency.

269
00:13:30,022 --> 00:13:33,062
Speaker 1: Here's a big question for Friday. Do you want a

270
00:13:33,102 --> 00:13:34,782
Speaker 1: little life or a big one?

271
00:13:34,982 --> 00:13:37,262
Speaker 3: Big? What you'd say?

272
00:13:37,902 --> 00:13:40,462
Speaker 1: What might a little life look like? And what is

273
00:13:40,582 --> 00:13:43,862
Speaker 1: a big one? And is it a quiet rebellion to

274
00:13:43,982 --> 00:13:47,862
Speaker 1: turn away from showy achievement and aspire to something quieter.

275
00:13:48,622 --> 00:13:51,622
Speaker 1: That's what the writer Caitlin Richardson thinks, and she wrote

276
00:13:51,662 --> 00:13:54,622
Speaker 1: about it in her popular substack newsletter milk Fed recently.

277
00:13:54,702 --> 00:13:56,942
Speaker 1: I've just read you a couple of little things, she wrote.

278
00:13:57,902 --> 00:14:00,422
Speaker 1: She said, there's a pervasive myth that is seeped into

279
00:14:00,462 --> 00:14:03,182
Speaker 1: every corner of our current reality, claiming that in order

280
00:14:03,222 --> 00:14:05,822
Speaker 1: to have a meaningful life, we're told that worth is

281
00:14:05,902 --> 00:14:09,342
Speaker 1: measured in titles, achievements, and the scope of our influence.

282
00:14:09,902 --> 00:14:14,342
Speaker 1: It's a myth that demands endless striving, she writes. As

283
00:14:14,342 --> 00:14:17,422
Speaker 1: I've gotten older, I've found myself questioning this narrative that

284
00:14:17,502 --> 00:14:21,102
Speaker 1: is constantly being fed to us through the algorithms. What

285
00:14:21,262 --> 00:14:23,542
Speaker 1: about a life where your career gives you enough to

286
00:14:23,582 --> 00:14:27,062
Speaker 1: live comfortably, to live a simple but significant life offline?

287
00:14:27,502 --> 00:14:30,502
Speaker 1: Are their lives inherently less valuable because they don't fit

288
00:14:30,622 --> 00:14:36,302
Speaker 1: society's definition of mega success. Jesse, do you want to

289
00:14:36,342 --> 00:14:38,662
Speaker 1: live a big life or a little life?

290
00:14:39,782 --> 00:14:41,582
Speaker 3: Depends on the day and how much sleep I had.

291
00:14:42,262 --> 00:14:45,102
Speaker 1: I think milk fed by the way this writer also

292
00:14:45,222 --> 00:14:47,622
Speaker 1: wrote because she was talking about finding the joy and

293
00:14:47,662 --> 00:14:51,182
Speaker 1: all the little mundane things, cooking, being home with your dog,

294
00:14:51,222 --> 00:14:54,542
Speaker 1: all that stuff, and like, isn't that enough? It's basically

295
00:14:54,582 --> 00:14:55,182
Speaker 1: the pressure.

296
00:14:55,222 --> 00:14:58,542
Speaker 3: You can be ambitious and want some big things and

297
00:14:58,702 --> 00:15:01,382
Speaker 3: also know that the greatest joys of life are the

298
00:15:01,382 --> 00:15:03,982
Speaker 3: little things. There's this in between. I wrote something for

299
00:15:03,982 --> 00:15:06,982
Speaker 3: the Good Weekend after my second book came out about

300
00:15:07,622 --> 00:15:09,542
Speaker 3: the Discovery, and we talked about it on the podcast

301
00:15:09,982 --> 00:15:14,182
Speaker 3: of Glimmers, and how the way that joy works is

302
00:15:14,222 --> 00:15:16,742
Speaker 3: that the big things and the small things are experienced

303
00:15:16,782 --> 00:15:20,342
Speaker 3: exactly the same. So the big joys that we strive

304
00:15:20,422 --> 00:15:22,782
Speaker 3: towards and that we might put all this sacrifice into,

305
00:15:23,182 --> 00:15:25,502
Speaker 3: like releasing a book, right, and you expect to have

306
00:15:25,582 --> 00:15:28,622
Speaker 3: this joy that's proportionate to the work you put in,

307
00:15:29,102 --> 00:15:31,262
Speaker 3: is the same, because there are moments of joy in that.

308
00:15:31,502 --> 00:15:34,102
Speaker 3: But it's the same as I was writing about it,

309
00:15:34,142 --> 00:15:36,662
Speaker 3: in that moment of laying on the floor with my

310
00:15:36,942 --> 00:15:40,062
Speaker 3: four month old baby like and that, to me, that

311
00:15:40,222 --> 00:15:42,582
Speaker 3: was a new lesson. It took me a while to

312
00:15:42,662 --> 00:15:45,022
Speaker 3: learn that because I kept feeling like I was getting

313
00:15:45,062 --> 00:15:46,982
Speaker 3: to the thing I was aiming for and it was

314
00:15:47,022 --> 00:15:49,622
Speaker 3: a mirage. It was like, why don't I feel like

315
00:15:49,662 --> 00:15:52,662
Speaker 3: how I'm meant to feel? But this idea of glimmers

316
00:15:52,662 --> 00:15:55,782
Speaker 3: and the smallness, Like I heard a famous actor say

317
00:15:55,782 --> 00:15:58,462
Speaker 3: this week that the greatest joy for most people is

318
00:15:58,462 --> 00:16:00,702
Speaker 3: a day at home. That feels like a relief to.

319
00:16:00,742 --> 00:16:02,942
Speaker 1: Me, but also one of the reasons why the greatest

320
00:16:03,062 --> 00:16:05,222
Speaker 1: joy for the actor a day at home is because

321
00:16:05,222 --> 00:16:08,502
Speaker 1: it's not every day. To Yes, that's so extretely honest,

322
00:16:08,782 --> 00:16:11,542
Speaker 1: Like I think I don't mean that as a blanket

323
00:16:11,622 --> 00:16:14,062
Speaker 1: statement that everybody would rather not be at home all

324
00:16:14,062 --> 00:16:16,862
Speaker 1: the time, but when things are rare, they're also more precious.

325
00:16:17,062 --> 00:16:19,262
Speaker 1: And what do you think big life will little life?

326
00:16:19,382 --> 00:16:21,582
Speaker 1: I like a big life, and what does a big

327
00:16:21,622 --> 00:16:24,822
Speaker 1: life look like? So I think the end goal for

328
00:16:24,982 --> 00:16:27,222
Speaker 1: everyone seems to be a little life. But I feel

329
00:16:27,262 --> 00:16:28,902
Speaker 1: like you have to have the big life to be

330
00:16:28,942 --> 00:16:33,102
Speaker 1: able to afford the little life. Exactly what this writer said, Like,

331
00:16:33,142 --> 00:16:35,222
Speaker 1: if you have a career that allows you to have

332
00:16:35,262 --> 00:16:38,182
Speaker 1: a little life, then yeah, maybe you have time to

333
00:16:38,302 --> 00:16:40,942
Speaker 1: wash the dishes and not have a dish washer, Like

334
00:16:40,982 --> 00:16:43,822
Speaker 1: that's what I picture. I picture like the tradwives, and

335
00:16:43,862 --> 00:16:46,582
Speaker 1: they're like sunlit kitchen, Like I don't even have a

336
00:16:46,582 --> 00:16:49,702
Speaker 1: window in my kitchen, and I feel like living on

337
00:16:49,742 --> 00:16:52,582
Speaker 1: a farm with animals and your children and always wearing

338
00:16:52,622 --> 00:16:54,782
Speaker 1: white and not getting any stains on your white clothes.

339
00:16:55,102 --> 00:16:55,902
Speaker 3: Is that the little life?

340
00:16:55,942 --> 00:16:58,062
Speaker 1: Because I still I don't think what it is. I

341
00:16:58,102 --> 00:17:01,062
Speaker 1: think the point here it's a little bit about achievement.

342
00:17:01,182 --> 00:17:04,142
Speaker 3: So it's a little bit like a big.

343
00:17:03,902 --> 00:17:08,502
Speaker 1: Life is lots of work, lots of reward, lots of recognition,

344
00:17:08,702 --> 00:17:11,302
Speaker 1: lots of stuff, lots of dates in a diary, lots

345
00:17:11,341 --> 00:17:14,981
Speaker 1: of travel, lots of emments, lots of things right fills

346
00:17:15,022 --> 00:17:17,302
Speaker 1: your life, big, big, big, big, big, Like there are

347
00:17:17,302 --> 00:17:20,061
Speaker 1: people we all would follow on the internet who are

348
00:17:20,182 --> 00:17:24,782
Speaker 1: always doing something, always somewhere amazing with amazing people. Look,

349
00:17:25,901 --> 00:17:28,022
Speaker 1: and I think the point in all this is like,

350
00:17:28,542 --> 00:17:30,782
Speaker 1: because we all have so much of a window now

351
00:17:30,821 --> 00:17:34,341
Speaker 1: into these big lives, that's now what we're all conditioned

352
00:17:34,381 --> 00:17:37,901
Speaker 1: to think is what's right as opposed to the less

353
00:17:37,982 --> 00:17:41,181
Speaker 1: instagrammable moments, which I don't think is tradwives and white

354
00:17:41,222 --> 00:17:44,502
Speaker 1: clothes and sunlit things. It's more than lying on the

355
00:17:44,542 --> 00:17:46,501
Speaker 1: floor with the baby or the dog, or walking with

356
00:17:46,542 --> 00:17:49,461
Speaker 1: your grandma or whatever like. And then I think on

357
00:17:49,502 --> 00:17:53,101
Speaker 1: another level, it's economic. What she's saying is how much

358
00:17:53,182 --> 00:17:55,902
Speaker 1: is enough for you to have a nice life? There's

359
00:17:55,942 --> 00:17:58,341
Speaker 1: nothing wrong with that. Rather than constantly being like, my

360
00:17:58,341 --> 00:18:01,382
Speaker 1: life isn't enough because I don't have twenty five Berkins

361
00:18:01,381 --> 00:18:02,821
Speaker 1: in a mansion and a da da da d D.

362
00:18:03,581 --> 00:18:05,621
Speaker 2: You know, I think we're living a little life. A

363
00:18:05,661 --> 00:18:08,302
Speaker 2: lot of it comes with awareness, like you actually have

364
00:18:08,381 --> 00:18:12,022
Speaker 2: to be aware that you're experiencing joy in the little

365
00:18:12,061 --> 00:18:14,342
Speaker 2: things which I think I'm not good at. Like there

366
00:18:14,341 --> 00:18:16,621
Speaker 2: are things that I have to tell myself that I

367
00:18:16,702 --> 00:18:18,821
Speaker 2: like doing, Like every morning I have to go for

368
00:18:18,901 --> 00:18:21,262
Speaker 2: a walk, and it was only after years of doing

369
00:18:21,302 --> 00:18:23,702
Speaker 2: it that I'd be like, oh, I need this walk

370
00:18:23,742 --> 00:18:26,581
Speaker 2: because it actually makes me happy. It's not because I

371
00:18:26,661 --> 00:18:29,061
Speaker 2: need it to exercise or to like get sugned. It's

372
00:18:29,101 --> 00:18:31,542
Speaker 2: actually just makes me happy. And it's those like little

373
00:18:31,581 --> 00:18:34,182
Speaker 2: things I've had to teach myself to be like, this

374
00:18:34,381 --> 00:18:36,782
Speaker 2: makes you happy, the same way as getting promoted at

375
00:18:36,782 --> 00:18:39,061
Speaker 2: work makes you happy, and it's really hard.

376
00:18:39,581 --> 00:18:42,821
Speaker 3: I think the difference too, is that a big life,

377
00:18:43,341 --> 00:18:45,942
Speaker 3: reading between the lines of what she wrote, is also

378
00:18:45,942 --> 00:18:47,901
Speaker 3: about who you're doing it for. It's a lot about

379
00:18:47,942 --> 00:18:51,622
Speaker 3: external validation, so it's about that next promotion, nor it's

380
00:18:51,661 --> 00:18:54,061
Speaker 3: about feeling like you get to a place that what

381
00:18:54,141 --> 00:18:56,741
Speaker 3: other people are jealous of, whereas a little life. What

382
00:18:56,821 --> 00:19:00,461
Speaker 3: I've found really enlightening was in the comments. There are

383
00:19:00,462 --> 00:19:02,861
Speaker 3: a lot of people saying I've chosen a little life,

384
00:19:02,861 --> 00:19:05,382
Speaker 3: and I'm pitied. I feel the pity.

385
00:19:05,581 --> 00:19:08,421
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. So, for example, you often hear people

386
00:19:08,502 --> 00:19:13,141
Speaker 1: say made a choice of either I could work work, work, work, work, work, work,

387
00:19:14,061 --> 00:19:16,422
Speaker 1: and have lots and lots of achievement, or I could

388
00:19:16,502 --> 00:19:19,782
Speaker 1: accept that I wanted a smaller life, like a literally

389
00:19:19,861 --> 00:19:23,661
Speaker 1: maybe a smaller house somewhere further away, or a smaller

390
00:19:24,381 --> 00:19:26,101
Speaker 1: you know, we needed less money as a family, we

391
00:19:26,182 --> 00:19:28,421
Speaker 1: might not have big European holidays and a car and

392
00:19:28,901 --> 00:19:31,821
Speaker 1: like three cars and whatever it is. I chose that

393
00:19:32,061 --> 00:19:35,621
Speaker 1: so that I could have more peace. That is like

394
00:19:35,661 --> 00:19:39,061
Speaker 1: an active choice in this context of a little life,

395
00:19:39,222 --> 00:19:42,662
Speaker 1: right right, and in a competitor obviously obviously it's an

396
00:19:42,661 --> 00:19:44,821
Speaker 1: allusion to think that that's always a choice. It's not

397
00:19:44,821 --> 00:19:48,462
Speaker 1: always a choice. But like, just for this discussion.

398
00:19:48,101 --> 00:19:50,101
Speaker 3: We struggle to see why anyone would choose that.

399
00:19:50,182 --> 00:19:52,861
Speaker 1: And I sometimes parents say this a lot, very often

400
00:19:53,061 --> 00:19:55,742
Speaker 1: full time mothers. I mean, I hate that term because

401
00:19:55,782 --> 00:19:58,422
Speaker 1: all parenting is full time. But mothers who don't work

402
00:19:58,462 --> 00:20:00,461
Speaker 1: outside the home, parents who don't work outside the home,

403
00:20:00,502 --> 00:20:03,421
Speaker 1: will say, we chose this is a family because it

404
00:20:03,422 --> 00:20:05,022
Speaker 1: was important to us and our values.

405
00:20:05,141 --> 00:20:06,302
Speaker 3: And if, of.

406
00:20:06,262 --> 00:20:09,382
Speaker 1: Course it is a choice, again, that's privileged and I'm

407
00:20:09,542 --> 00:20:11,661
Speaker 1: often pitied for it, like why would you do that?

408
00:20:11,861 --> 00:20:13,821
Speaker 1: Because you can't have this and you can't have that,

409
00:20:13,942 --> 00:20:15,741
Speaker 1: And they're like, but this is what I wanted, and

410
00:20:15,782 --> 00:20:17,742
Speaker 1: the pity comes.

411
00:20:18,222 --> 00:20:20,581
Speaker 3: Or the person who chooses a part time job, or

412
00:20:20,581 --> 00:20:22,901
Speaker 3: the person who chooses not to have the promotion or

413
00:20:23,542 --> 00:20:26,542
Speaker 3: not to keep stepping up on the ladder. Ye, that's

414
00:20:26,621 --> 00:20:29,341
Speaker 3: often a conscious choice, but it's one that you've got

415
00:20:29,341 --> 00:20:33,021
Speaker 3: to go. Well, people might not understand it, but other

416
00:20:33,061 --> 00:20:34,941
Speaker 3: people's opinion of me doesn't make me happy.

417
00:20:35,861 --> 00:20:38,622
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so true. And also about how a lot

418
00:20:38,621 --> 00:20:40,342
Speaker 2: of these choices for a little of life has been

419
00:20:40,381 --> 00:20:43,101
Speaker 2: made with a family, because when I was thinking what

420
00:20:43,141 --> 00:20:45,701
Speaker 2: my life would look like as a little life. It

421
00:20:45,702 --> 00:20:48,901
Speaker 2: looks really lonely to me, as being someone who's single

422
00:20:48,901 --> 00:20:51,381
Speaker 2: and lives alone, Like I can't imagine even being more

423
00:20:51,542 --> 00:20:56,302
Speaker 2: isolated or try not to achieve things that have external validation,

424
00:20:56,381 --> 00:20:59,981
Speaker 2: because I think part of my wanting a big life

425
00:21:00,061 --> 00:21:02,461
Speaker 2: is that external validation does mean a lot to me,

426
00:21:03,061 --> 00:21:05,502
Speaker 2: Like it actually helps me with my career, and it

427
00:21:05,542 --> 00:21:07,421
Speaker 2: helps me with what I want to do, and it

428
00:21:07,462 --> 00:21:10,341
Speaker 2: also helps build the relationships around me. And I just

429
00:21:10,341 --> 00:21:13,022
Speaker 2: feel like if I strived for a little life, it

430
00:21:13,061 --> 00:21:15,101
Speaker 2: would just take all of those things away.

431
00:21:15,422 --> 00:21:17,302
Speaker 3: I know what you mean. There's a lot of adrenaline

432
00:21:17,302 --> 00:21:18,142
Speaker 3: in the bigness too.

433
00:21:18,302 --> 00:21:21,302
Speaker 1: It's also I don't know, I want both. I want

434
00:21:21,341 --> 00:21:22,621
Speaker 1: a big life and a little life.

435
00:21:23,061 --> 00:21:24,621
Speaker 3: Is that greedy? Is it? You can't have?

436
00:21:24,942 --> 00:21:27,821
Speaker 1: A professional acquaintance said to me last week, Literally last

437
00:21:27,821 --> 00:21:30,382
Speaker 1: week she said to me, we were talking about plans.

438
00:21:30,462 --> 00:21:33,502
Speaker 1: She said, you're always saying you want the quiet life,

439
00:21:33,502 --> 00:21:36,261
Speaker 1: but I've stopped believing you, and she's right, like I

440
00:21:36,302 --> 00:21:38,022
Speaker 1: do always say that. I said, I want to be

441
00:21:38,141 --> 00:21:40,861
Speaker 1: home with my veggies and my daughter, and like that's

442
00:21:40,861 --> 00:21:43,422
Speaker 1: a little life in a way, and I love that,

443
00:21:44,061 --> 00:21:46,742
Speaker 1: but I would be lying if I said I didn't

444
00:21:46,782 --> 00:21:50,502
Speaker 1: also like because also life goes through parts of being

445
00:21:50,502 --> 00:21:53,101
Speaker 1: big and small. We've just had a very big time.

446
00:21:53,381 --> 00:21:55,061
Speaker 1: If you looked at my social media over the past

447
00:21:55,101 --> 00:21:57,661
Speaker 1: two months, my life is huge. It looks like you

448
00:21:57,702 --> 00:22:01,061
Speaker 1: were two people traveling and doing all these things and

449
00:22:01,101 --> 00:22:04,101
Speaker 1: it all looks great, right, and it is great, And wait.

450
00:22:03,821 --> 00:22:06,022
Speaker 3: Out you had seven live events in a week or

451
00:22:06,061 --> 00:22:06,582
Speaker 3: something and.

452
00:22:06,542 --> 00:22:09,542
Speaker 1: I was like, holle, that's a big life for a time.

453
00:22:09,782 --> 00:22:11,422
Speaker 1: And now I don't want that anymore and I want

454
00:22:11,462 --> 00:22:13,902
Speaker 1: to be back with my vegetables whatever. My parents think

455
00:22:13,901 --> 00:22:16,221
Speaker 1: my life is nuts. They literally do. They'd be like,

456
00:22:16,222 --> 00:22:19,381
Speaker 1: why would anybody want a complicated life with lots of

457
00:22:19,381 --> 00:22:23,982
Speaker 1: different moving parts? And I understand that. I think it's

458
00:22:24,022 --> 00:22:28,381
Speaker 1: a tension. I think there's a tension between wanting peace

459
00:22:28,502 --> 00:22:31,862
Speaker 1: and wanting excitement, wanting when you.

460
00:22:31,861 --> 00:22:33,542
Speaker 3: Get one one, you want the other.

461
00:22:33,742 --> 00:22:36,821
Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't mean that you're confused about well maybe

462
00:22:36,861 --> 00:22:39,381
Speaker 1: I am confused, But whether you're confused about what matters,

463
00:22:39,422 --> 00:22:42,542
Speaker 1: I think Jesse. You know your story about lying on

464
00:22:42,581 --> 00:22:44,861
Speaker 1: the floor with the baby or the dog, or walking

465
00:22:44,861 --> 00:22:47,701
Speaker 1: with you an elderly parent, or laughing with your best

466
00:22:47,742 --> 00:22:49,782
Speaker 1: friend till you Tommy hurts whatever. We all know that's

467
00:22:49,821 --> 00:22:53,662
Speaker 1: really the important stuff, like we do. But it doesn't

468
00:22:53,702 --> 00:22:57,621
Speaker 1: mean that your ambitions to achieve certain things, or experience

469
00:22:57,661 --> 00:23:00,422
Speaker 1: certain things, or go to certain places or I guess

470
00:23:00,462 --> 00:23:02,581
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to say is maybe it's not so binary.

471
00:23:02,742 --> 00:23:04,702
Speaker 3: I don't think it is either, But it did make

472
00:23:04,742 --> 00:23:06,981
Speaker 3: me think that the books I love reading the most

473
00:23:07,702 --> 00:23:11,142
Speaker 3: are about little life. Yes, same love, little lives and

474
00:23:11,742 --> 00:23:17,262
Speaker 3: the day today, mundane things, the stuff of people's lives.

475
00:23:17,302 --> 00:23:19,782
Speaker 3: I do not when a book gets too big, I

476
00:23:19,821 --> 00:23:22,421
Speaker 3: hate it. I'm not someone who read celebrity memoirs. I

477
00:23:22,462 --> 00:23:26,181
Speaker 3: don't like the bigness. I find the littleness of life

478
00:23:26,222 --> 00:23:27,782
Speaker 3: far more fascinating. I agree.

479
00:23:28,422 --> 00:23:32,742
Speaker 1: I was listening to an interview with our friend Jacinda

480
00:23:32,942 --> 00:23:34,581
Speaker 1: dun Oh yeah close.

481
00:23:34,982 --> 00:23:36,302
Speaker 3: She had had a big life.

482
00:23:36,341 --> 00:23:38,262
Speaker 1: She was the Prime Minister of New Zealand. But she

483
00:23:38,381 --> 00:23:40,861
Speaker 1: was talking about this quote that I think it's attributed

484
00:23:40,982 --> 00:23:44,022
Speaker 1: to a British psychiatrist, but it's often used in kind

485
00:23:44,022 --> 00:23:47,702
Speaker 1: of progressive politics circles as like, really, what people need

486
00:23:47,742 --> 00:23:50,742
Speaker 1: for happiness? The corner serves for happiness, somewhere to live,

487
00:23:50,982 --> 00:23:53,942
Speaker 1: someone to love, something to do, something to hope for

488
00:23:54,742 --> 00:23:59,701
Speaker 1: that really, those for ordinary things and being able to

489
00:23:59,702 --> 00:24:03,022
Speaker 1: do those with dignity are the things that really matter.

490
00:24:03,742 --> 00:24:07,101
Speaker 1: I think that's absolutely true. But I think it's very

491
00:24:07,141 --> 00:24:10,582
Speaker 1: hard to hold on too that sometimes when either your

492
00:24:10,702 --> 00:24:14,821
Speaker 1: internal engine is pushing you or you're on Instagram and

493
00:24:14,901 --> 00:24:19,462
Speaker 1: it's relentless like boss bitches with their you know, jets,

494
00:24:19,661 --> 00:24:21,902
Speaker 1: and just like, this is what hustle looks like, this

495
00:24:21,942 --> 00:24:23,981
Speaker 1: is what we should all be striving for. This is

496
00:24:24,022 --> 00:24:24,622
Speaker 1: the great thing.

497
00:24:24,861 --> 00:24:27,141
Speaker 3: It's like, what is it now?

498
00:24:27,222 --> 00:24:30,462
Speaker 2: That is after the break. We've got some recommendations for

499
00:24:30,502 --> 00:24:31,262
Speaker 2: your weekend.

500
00:24:36,182 --> 00:24:40,061
Speaker 1: Vibes, ideas, atmosphere, something casual, something fun.

501
00:24:40,621 --> 00:24:44,422
Speaker 2: This is my best recommendation. It's Friday, so we wanted

502
00:24:44,462 --> 00:24:47,821
Speaker 2: to help set up your weekend with our best recommendations.

503
00:24:48,141 --> 00:24:55,702
Speaker 1: Holly, I have got actually a little recommendation, an absolute, perfect, literal,

504
00:24:55,782 --> 00:24:59,461
Speaker 1: mouthful of joy recommendation. I have made this recipe for

505
00:24:59,542 --> 00:25:01,701
Speaker 1: four weekends in a row. It's the easiest thing that

506
00:25:01,742 --> 00:25:02,342
Speaker 1: we'll ever do.

507
00:25:02,702 --> 00:25:02,902
Speaker 3: Right.

508
00:25:03,502 --> 00:25:06,061
Speaker 1: So, you know friend of the pod, Virginia Trioli, she's

509
00:25:06,061 --> 00:25:08,101
Speaker 1: a journalist writer. You all know who she is. She

510
00:25:08,141 --> 00:25:10,101
Speaker 1: wrote this book a while ago, called on the Side

511
00:25:10,101 --> 00:25:11,861
Speaker 1: and there are some recipes in it. It's not a

512
00:25:11,901 --> 00:25:14,221
Speaker 1: recipe book. It's like a memoir. But in it is

513
00:25:14,262 --> 00:25:17,861
Speaker 1: this recipe for her grandma's green beans. Right, and this

514
00:25:17,942 --> 00:25:18,502
Speaker 1: is all you do?

515
00:25:18,821 --> 00:25:20,542
Speaker 3: Is it green beans as a side? Is it a

516
00:25:20,542 --> 00:25:21,461
Speaker 3: mess side? Okay?

517
00:25:21,782 --> 00:25:23,421
Speaker 1: So, like say you've got a piece of steak you're

518
00:25:23,462 --> 00:25:26,581
Speaker 1: making that night, or a pork chop or whatever. Right,

519
00:25:27,182 --> 00:25:29,741
Speaker 1: you boil your green beans in the afternoon. So earlier

520
00:25:29,742 --> 00:25:31,782
Speaker 1: in the day, it's like lunchtime. You think, I'll put

521
00:25:31,782 --> 00:25:33,702
Speaker 1: those beans on. Boil them for a couple of minutes.

522
00:25:33,742 --> 00:25:35,502
Speaker 1: They's a little bit soft. Then you just put them

523
00:25:35,542 --> 00:25:38,942
Speaker 1: in a bowl. You put some salt and pepper. Salt, yeah,

524
00:25:39,302 --> 00:25:42,982
Speaker 1: salt and pepper, crushed up garlic, red wine, vinegar, olive oil,

525
00:25:43,022 --> 00:25:44,702
Speaker 1: and then you leave them. And you just leave them

526
00:25:44,742 --> 00:25:47,982
Speaker 1: all afternoon, and when it's dinner time, you eat them

527
00:25:48,022 --> 00:25:52,141
Speaker 1: with your steak. And it is the most delicious bean

528
00:25:52,462 --> 00:25:53,421
Speaker 1: you have ever eaten me.

529
00:25:53,742 --> 00:25:56,022
Speaker 3: It's never thought of cooking a bit. I always have

530
00:25:56,061 --> 00:25:58,662
Speaker 3: beans at restaurants and I always think how lovely they are.

531
00:25:58,742 --> 00:25:59,462
Speaker 3: But I'm not a cooker.

532
00:25:59,502 --> 00:26:02,262
Speaker 1: Bean at home, Lady, green bean, and they're in season.

533
00:26:02,621 --> 00:26:04,621
Speaker 1: Grab some green beans top and tail and throw them

534
00:26:04,661 --> 00:26:05,821
Speaker 1: in the pant but you do it in the day

535
00:26:05,861 --> 00:26:07,302
Speaker 1: and then you leave them on the side. Don't put

536
00:26:07,341 --> 00:26:09,262
Speaker 1: them in the fridge. You leave them on the side

537
00:26:09,621 --> 00:26:12,901
Speaker 1: in their oil and vinegar and stuff. They're so good.

538
00:26:12,982 --> 00:26:15,861
Speaker 1: I can't even tell you what it like pickoli?

539
00:26:15,942 --> 00:26:16,901
Speaker 2: Do they become like pickoli.

540
00:26:16,982 --> 00:26:19,061
Speaker 1: It just tastes like vinegary, a bit salady, you know,

541
00:26:19,182 --> 00:26:20,821
Speaker 1: like a bit. It's the garlic and the oil and

542
00:26:20,861 --> 00:26:23,382
Speaker 1: the vinegar. I've got a picture. I'll put it somewhere,

543
00:26:23,422 --> 00:26:26,222
Speaker 1: but like I've started doing that often on a Saturday,

544
00:26:26,262 --> 00:26:29,262
Speaker 1: Brent and I'll have like just me and him dinner

545
00:26:29,262 --> 00:26:30,621
Speaker 1: on a Saturday night, and it will often be a

546
00:26:30,702 --> 00:26:32,741
Speaker 1: nice piece of meat, but like just that and a

547
00:26:32,821 --> 00:26:34,382
Speaker 1: salad and the meat like perfect.

548
00:26:34,381 --> 00:26:38,542
Speaker 3: We're gonna put your beans on its dramash Bagh And

549
00:26:38,581 --> 00:26:39,542
Speaker 3: what's your recommendation.

550
00:26:39,782 --> 00:26:42,462
Speaker 2: I'm recommending a lipstick that I bought with me because

551
00:26:42,462 --> 00:26:43,982
Speaker 2: I'm not wearing it. I don't know why I haven't

552
00:26:43,982 --> 00:26:46,381
Speaker 2: recommended this before, because I it's the one lipstick that

553
00:26:46,422 --> 00:26:49,502
Speaker 2: I get every single compliment from every single person on

554
00:26:49,861 --> 00:26:53,141
Speaker 2: it is the Sephora Collection New Cream lipstain in the

555
00:26:53,182 --> 00:26:57,182
Speaker 2: shade Naughty Burgundy, and it's the lipstick that I wore

556
00:26:57,222 --> 00:26:57,662
Speaker 2: on tour.

557
00:26:58,141 --> 00:27:01,302
Speaker 1: Is it a lipstick or is it a lip like a.

558
00:27:00,821 --> 00:27:04,742
Speaker 2: Liquid lipstick, So it goes on like a liquid lipstick,

559
00:27:04,782 --> 00:27:07,262
Speaker 2: and then it like dries a little bit on your lips. Matte,

560
00:27:07,302 --> 00:27:09,621
Speaker 2: it's more satin, but it does get a bit dry.

561
00:27:09,702 --> 00:27:11,662
Speaker 2: So I usually put a barm on before I put

562
00:27:11,702 --> 00:27:14,981
Speaker 2: this on. And because I have a really big gob like,

563
00:27:15,022 --> 00:27:17,821
Speaker 2: my lips like always gets hit on my chin, so

564
00:27:17,861 --> 00:27:19,701
Speaker 2: I always get a lipstick mark on my chin or

565
00:27:19,782 --> 00:27:22,621
Speaker 2: my nose. You look great with a bold lip, but

566
00:27:22,702 --> 00:27:24,621
Speaker 2: I'll never wear them because it goes everywhere and this

567
00:27:24,661 --> 00:27:29,221
Speaker 2: one doesn't move. It stays put all day. You have

568
00:27:29,222 --> 00:27:31,022
Speaker 2: to scrub it a bit at night to get it off.

569
00:27:31,061 --> 00:27:32,061
Speaker 3: But it is the best.

570
00:27:32,101 --> 00:27:33,741
Speaker 2: So if you have issues with your lipstick moving on

571
00:27:33,742 --> 00:27:37,421
Speaker 2: your face. The Sephora New Cream Lipstain collection, they have

572
00:27:37,502 --> 00:27:40,421
Speaker 2: a crapload of colors. If you want to buy this

573
00:27:40,542 --> 00:27:43,182
Speaker 2: right now, it's actually fifty percent off at Sephora. It's

574
00:27:43,222 --> 00:27:46,901
Speaker 2: now twelve dollars go buy heaps.

575
00:27:47,661 --> 00:27:50,742
Speaker 3: My recommendation, and it's to do with sort of one

576
00:27:50,782 --> 00:27:54,141
Speaker 3: of the themes of today's episode. There is a podcast

577
00:27:54,182 --> 00:27:56,742
Speaker 3: called Hold the Moment, which I listened to the first

578
00:27:57,222 --> 00:27:59,262
Speaker 3: season a little while ago, and they've just dropped the

579
00:27:59,262 --> 00:28:04,061
Speaker 3: second season now and it is hosted by Hamish McDonald

580
00:28:04,422 --> 00:28:06,861
Speaker 3: and a guy named Jim Rodgers who has early on

581
00:28:06,942 --> 00:28:09,222
Speaker 3: set dementia, and it's called Hold the Moment because it's

582
00:28:09,262 --> 00:28:12,421
Speaker 3: all about The first season was about people who have

583
00:28:12,581 --> 00:28:15,741
Speaker 3: dementia or Alzheimer's. There was an interview I listened to

584
00:28:15,782 --> 00:28:18,782
Speaker 3: of this woman that talked about how for her specific

585
00:28:19,341 --> 00:28:22,861
Speaker 3: type of dementia, when she dreams, it's lacking fast forward

586
00:28:23,061 --> 00:28:27,222
Speaker 3: and it's really distressing. And I didn't realize the insomnia

587
00:28:27,262 --> 00:28:29,341
Speaker 3: that a lot of people experience. I know that my

588
00:28:29,422 --> 00:28:31,901
Speaker 3: grandfather would see things at night, and apparently it's to

589
00:28:31,942 --> 00:28:34,661
Speaker 3: do with like your sleep gets really disturbed, and we

590
00:28:34,702 --> 00:28:37,262
Speaker 3: all know what sleep does to memory. So that kind

591
00:28:37,302 --> 00:28:39,421
Speaker 3: of compounds a lot of the issues that people have.

592
00:28:39,782 --> 00:28:42,982
Speaker 3: But this second season that's just dropped is about carers

593
00:28:43,302 --> 00:28:47,582
Speaker 3: and it is so sensitively done. Hamish his father had

594
00:28:47,742 --> 00:28:50,701
Speaker 3: dementia and he just talks about him so beautifully. But

595
00:28:51,302 --> 00:28:54,501
Speaker 3: Rachel Corbett is interviewed on one of the first episodes.

596
00:28:54,862 --> 00:28:58,422
Speaker 3: Both her parents had dementia and she was a care

597
00:28:59,022 --> 00:29:03,021
Speaker 3: at such a young age and to give a voice

598
00:29:03,302 --> 00:29:07,941
Speaker 3: to that experience I think is so valuable and I

599
00:29:07,982 --> 00:29:09,862
Speaker 3: know I sent this around to my family soon as

600
00:29:09,862 --> 00:29:12,022
Speaker 3: it came out. So that's the second season of Hold

601
00:29:12,062 --> 00:29:12,782
Speaker 3: the Moment.

602
00:29:13,222 --> 00:29:17,302
Speaker 1: After the Break. Our best and worst include Clean Dishes, Carbs, Wine,

603
00:29:17,462 --> 00:29:21,862
Speaker 1: and a very special tunnel one unlimited out loud access.

604
00:29:22,022 --> 00:29:26,062
Speaker 1: We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mamma

605
00:29:26,102 --> 00:29:28,742
Speaker 1: Mia subscribers. Follow the link in the show notes to

606
00:29:28,782 --> 00:29:31,302
Speaker 1: get us in your ears five days a week. And

607
00:29:31,422 --> 00:29:41,662
Speaker 1: a huge thank you to all our current subscribers. It's

608
00:29:41,702 --> 00:29:43,422
Speaker 1: time for our best and Worst of the week, where

609
00:29:43,462 --> 00:29:45,942
Speaker 1: we jump in with a little bit of our personal lives.

610
00:29:46,462 --> 00:29:47,421
Speaker 3: Why don't you go first?

611
00:29:47,782 --> 00:29:50,902
Speaker 2: Okay? My worst of the week is something that I

612
00:29:50,982 --> 00:29:53,982
Speaker 2: believe is propaganda that we all bought into, Oh my goodness,

613
00:29:54,062 --> 00:29:56,902
Speaker 2: and it's the fact that we still haven't figured out

614
00:29:57,102 --> 00:30:00,982
Speaker 2: why GPS's and sat navs don't work in the tunnels.

615
00:30:01,422 --> 00:30:03,902
Speaker 3: We don't, don't, I can't.

616
00:30:05,102 --> 00:30:07,181
Speaker 2: There's no way that we haven't figured out. We've sent

617
00:30:07,302 --> 00:30:12,022
Speaker 2: Katie Perry to space and we don't know take drive

618
00:30:12,142 --> 00:30:12,782
Speaker 2: through a tunnel.

619
00:30:12,862 --> 00:30:15,302
Speaker 1: This happened to me last week when I was driving

620
00:30:15,342 --> 00:30:17,622
Speaker 1: in from wherever, and because we've moved offices, I was

621
00:30:17,661 --> 00:30:20,102
Speaker 1: trying to come around another way and I was like,

622
00:30:20,142 --> 00:30:21,382
Speaker 1: why are you telling me to turn right?

623
00:30:21,422 --> 00:30:23,582
Speaker 3: I'm in a tunnel, right, I drive.

624
00:30:23,382 --> 00:30:24,062
Speaker 1: Into the walls.

625
00:30:25,222 --> 00:30:27,702
Speaker 3: And here's what I don't understand. My podcast is working

626
00:30:27,702 --> 00:30:31,942
Speaker 3: on my internet's working, so I can't my maps tell me.

627
00:30:31,942 --> 00:30:32,982
Speaker 2: The bus every time?

628
00:30:33,142 --> 00:30:36,902
Speaker 1: Yeah, because the tunnels are changing quicker than the surely not,

629
00:30:37,102 --> 00:30:37,701
Speaker 1: surely not.

630
00:30:37,862 --> 00:30:40,142
Speaker 2: It's something the amount of times I've landed up at

631
00:30:40,142 --> 00:30:41,822
Speaker 2: the airport but nowhere to go.

632
00:30:41,902 --> 00:30:44,702
Speaker 3: You know it's bad when you see a plane. This

633
00:30:44,742 --> 00:30:46,382
Speaker 3: is not the destiny. Someone fix this.

634
00:30:46,502 --> 00:30:48,222
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's the phone people or I

635
00:30:48,222 --> 00:30:50,862
Speaker 2: it's the GPS people or the space people. Someone needs

636
00:30:50,862 --> 00:30:53,382
Speaker 2: to fix this, the tunnel people. If you get lost.

637
00:30:53,702 --> 00:30:56,461
Speaker 2: I got so, and I'm such a nervous driver as is.

638
00:30:56,942 --> 00:30:59,902
Speaker 2: Thank god I memorized my route, so when I got

639
00:30:59,902 --> 00:31:01,941
Speaker 2: to the tunnel, my map was like turn right, and

640
00:31:01,942 --> 00:31:03,421
Speaker 2: I'm like, I know, I have to turn left. And

641
00:31:03,462 --> 00:31:05,582
Speaker 2: I really trusted my guard and I turned left and

642
00:31:05,582 --> 00:31:07,142
Speaker 2: I made it home and it was great.

643
00:31:07,182 --> 00:31:13,582
Speaker 1: Full respect to you to the root, like shut up.

644
00:31:13,902 --> 00:31:15,781
Speaker 3: The worst is when you drive out of the tunnel right,

645
00:31:15,822 --> 00:31:18,182
Speaker 3: and it's saying like four minutes and you drive out

646
00:31:18,182 --> 00:31:20,422
Speaker 3: of the tunnel and it's like twenty three minutes to destination.

647
00:31:20,542 --> 00:31:24,421
Speaker 3: You're like, now this happened again. It's the worst.

648
00:31:24,422 --> 00:31:26,261
Speaker 2: Anyway, I just thought I put that out there so

649
00:31:26,262 --> 00:31:27,022
Speaker 2: someone can fix it.

650
00:31:28,102 --> 00:31:28,741
Speaker 1: It was just me.

651
00:31:28,822 --> 00:31:31,862
Speaker 3: I feel related to I feel very seen you.

652
00:31:32,182 --> 00:31:35,142
Speaker 1: I thought it was just me too. And I worked

653
00:31:35,182 --> 00:31:38,142
Speaker 1: my GPS correctly.

654
00:31:37,222 --> 00:31:38,142
Speaker 3: So my best.

655
00:31:38,342 --> 00:31:40,062
Speaker 2: And I'm about to flex here because you know how

656
00:31:40,062 --> 00:31:43,102
Speaker 2: I always complain like live alone, not in relationship, blah

657
00:31:43,142 --> 00:31:44,502
Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah. So I was like, I need

658
00:31:44,542 --> 00:31:46,181
Speaker 2: to do something about this. I'm like, what can I

659
00:31:46,182 --> 00:31:49,661
Speaker 2: do that everyone else can't really do? And I was like,

660
00:31:49,702 --> 00:31:50,902
Speaker 2: I can go on a solar retreat.

661
00:31:50,942 --> 00:31:52,342
Speaker 3: I thought you were going to say, I bought Netsy

662
00:31:52,382 --> 00:31:54,582
Speaker 3: Witch and now I have a boyfriend.

663
00:31:54,982 --> 00:32:01,302
Speaker 2: And I became any oh my god, Okay, I went

664
00:32:01,342 --> 00:32:04,181
Speaker 2: on a solar retreat. So I'm very lucky. My parents

665
00:32:04,222 --> 00:32:07,302
Speaker 2: have a house down south close to you Hall in Carlboro,

666
00:32:07,382 --> 00:32:08,022
Speaker 2: near the beach.

667
00:32:08,222 --> 00:32:08,942
Speaker 3: It's lovely there.

668
00:32:08,982 --> 00:32:10,981
Speaker 2: It is so nice there, and I went and I

669
00:32:11,062 --> 00:32:13,461
Speaker 2: just stayed there by myself for a week. It's a

670
00:32:13,462 --> 00:32:15,102
Speaker 2: really tiny house. But when you live in like a

671
00:32:15,142 --> 00:32:17,461
Speaker 2: studio apartment, any house is big, and I felt like

672
00:32:17,502 --> 00:32:20,142
Speaker 2: I was in a mansion. Yeah, and it was for

673
00:32:20,222 --> 00:32:22,502
Speaker 2: my birthday. So my parents came the first day. My

674
00:32:22,542 --> 00:32:24,742
Speaker 2: sister got me like a big care package. They bought

675
00:32:24,742 --> 00:32:28,742
Speaker 2: me all my groceries, and then they left and I

676
00:32:28,782 --> 00:32:30,262
Speaker 2: was just there for the whole week. And I had

677
00:32:30,302 --> 00:32:33,382
Speaker 2: like five meals a day. I read three books. I

678
00:32:33,422 --> 00:32:36,382
Speaker 2: went to the beach every single day. I had naps,

679
00:32:36,462 --> 00:32:38,942
Speaker 2: I went in bath every single day. I watched movies

680
00:32:38,982 --> 00:32:41,342
Speaker 2: and TV. It was the best experience of my life.

681
00:32:41,382 --> 00:32:43,102
Speaker 2: Did that when I was your age once. It's that

682
00:32:43,182 --> 00:32:45,661
Speaker 2: a mate of mine's family had. I used to make

683
00:32:45,702 --> 00:32:47,342
Speaker 2: friends with people who had beach houses.

684
00:32:47,902 --> 00:32:50,702
Speaker 1: A good decision, and they had a house down at Mollymook,

685
00:32:50,742 --> 00:32:52,982
Speaker 1: which is a bit further along. And I just went

686
00:32:53,022 --> 00:32:56,102
Speaker 1: on my own for a week and it was heaven.

687
00:32:56,142 --> 00:32:57,302
Speaker 1: And I think I was your age O.

688
00:32:57,622 --> 00:32:59,462
Speaker 3: Good for you. I think everyone needs to do it.

689
00:32:59,462 --> 00:33:00,702
Speaker 3: It is the best experience ever.

690
00:33:01,022 --> 00:33:03,342
Speaker 2: Some people would be like that would be their worst nightmare. Yeah,

691
00:33:03,342 --> 00:33:05,661
Speaker 2: that's my dad's worst nightmare. He didn't understand it.

692
00:33:05,982 --> 00:33:07,742
Speaker 3: I love it. He asked if you wanted to stay

693
00:33:08,382 --> 00:33:08,662
Speaker 3: and you.

694
00:33:08,582 --> 00:33:11,982
Speaker 1: Were like, please leave, please leave the groceries, and then

695
00:33:12,062 --> 00:33:13,542
Speaker 1: leave it, close the door, thank you.

696
00:33:14,542 --> 00:33:18,221
Speaker 3: My worst is that Luna is at a big feelings age,

697
00:33:18,342 --> 00:33:20,342
Speaker 3: as the Internet called, and she's got some big feelings.

698
00:33:20,342 --> 00:33:21,582
Speaker 3: She's nearly two. That's fine.

699
00:33:21,822 --> 00:33:24,182
Speaker 1: Is that like gentle parenting code for the tantrum?

700
00:33:24,262 --> 00:33:26,502
Speaker 3: Yep, yeah, but we call it big feelings and we

701
00:33:26,582 --> 00:33:28,302
Speaker 3: just validate the feelings. Chucked her in the pram the

702
00:33:28,382 --> 00:33:30,382
Speaker 3: other day. I had to go and fill a script. Right, fun,

703
00:33:30,462 --> 00:33:33,342
Speaker 3: fun excursion for all. So we go to the chemist.

704
00:33:33,462 --> 00:33:35,902
Speaker 3: But because she can walk now, she's just turned around

705
00:33:35,902 --> 00:33:38,062
Speaker 3: and gone, I don't understand why I'm in a pram,

706
00:33:38,102 --> 00:33:40,542
Speaker 3: but she's so slow because her legs are too shot,

707
00:33:41,062 --> 00:33:43,102
Speaker 3: and I'm like, this is not happening. So we get

708
00:33:43,142 --> 00:33:45,062
Speaker 3: to the chemist and I'm you know, you have to

709
00:33:45,062 --> 00:33:47,742
Speaker 3: wait for the prescription. And I get her out of

710
00:33:47,782 --> 00:33:50,501
Speaker 3: the pram, and of course I didn't put shoes on

711
00:33:50,542 --> 00:33:52,622
Speaker 3: her because I ran out of the house. So she's barefoot,

712
00:33:53,022 --> 00:33:56,142
Speaker 3: just raging like a wild monkey, and this chemist just

713
00:33:56,182 --> 00:33:57,941
Speaker 3: taking things up the shelf and I was like, this

714
00:33:58,102 --> 00:34:01,782
Speaker 3: is not fun, and so waited for the prescription. Finally

715
00:34:01,782 --> 00:34:05,062
Speaker 3: got it trying to wrestle her back in the pram.

716
00:34:05,142 --> 00:34:08,022
Speaker 3: She's screaming like, no, no, no, I'm not getting back

717
00:34:08,022 --> 00:34:09,822
Speaker 3: in the pram. So then I'm like fine, but she

718
00:34:10,222 --> 00:34:12,142
Speaker 3: keeps walking out of the Chemist and I'm like, this

719
00:34:12,182 --> 00:34:14,462
Speaker 3: is why people put leasures on their children, and I understand.

720
00:34:15,182 --> 00:34:17,942
Speaker 3: I then leave the Chemist realize I've acidentally shoplifted in

721
00:34:18,022 --> 00:34:20,422
Speaker 3: all the like I put something in the bottom of

722
00:34:20,462 --> 00:34:21,902
Speaker 3: the pram and didn't realize I hadn't paid for it,

723
00:34:21,942 --> 00:34:23,062
Speaker 3: so I to go back in and pay for it.

724
00:34:23,221 --> 00:34:24,901
Speaker 3: Come back out, and I go, all right, we're going

725
00:34:24,902 --> 00:34:26,502
Speaker 3: in the pram because there's no other way to get

726
00:34:26,542 --> 00:34:28,382
Speaker 3: you home. So I'm trying to wrestle her in and

727
00:34:28,422 --> 00:34:30,301
Speaker 3: this man comes over to me and goes, are you

728
00:34:30,382 --> 00:34:35,221
Speaker 3: Jesse or Claire? And he's like I loved Canceled and

729
00:34:35,221 --> 00:34:39,181
Speaker 3: he was the loveliest man. But Luna is screaming, well.

730
00:34:39,102 --> 00:34:40,662
Speaker 2: You like, I'm Claire, this is the childer.

731
00:34:44,102 --> 00:34:47,942
Speaker 3: I just like, do something or I'm just shut do

732
00:34:48,062 --> 00:34:50,901
Speaker 3: something mortifying. He was lovely, but I had to kind

733
00:34:50,942 --> 00:34:52,902
Speaker 3: of get her in the anyway. She just would not

734
00:34:52,982 --> 00:34:54,502
Speaker 3: and there was no way we weren't going to be

735
00:34:54,542 --> 00:34:55,941
Speaker 3: able to walk home, so I had to call Luca

736
00:34:56,022 --> 00:34:57,661
Speaker 3: and go, I need you to come get us. This

737
00:34:57,701 --> 00:35:00,341
Speaker 3: is not good. So he comes, car pulls up and

738
00:35:00,382 --> 00:35:01,902
Speaker 3: he's like, don't worry, I've got it. And you know

739
00:35:01,942 --> 00:35:05,821
Speaker 3: when the other parent like they're helping, but not quite

740
00:35:05,862 --> 00:35:07,422
Speaker 3: in the way you would like them to help. So

741
00:35:07,502 --> 00:35:09,502
Speaker 3: he goes, I know, I'll just take Luna. I'll put

742
00:35:09,622 --> 00:35:11,381
Speaker 3: on my shoulder. So he walks on a home. I'm

743
00:35:11,422 --> 00:35:13,382
Speaker 3: left with the pram which has to be disassembled and

744
00:35:13,382 --> 00:35:16,221
Speaker 3: put my thing. He's parked in a bike lane, which,

745
00:35:16,382 --> 00:35:18,742
Speaker 3: to be fair to the cyclist, that is really annoying

746
00:35:18,741 --> 00:35:25,301
Speaker 3: and potentially dangerous. I got abused by about four cyclos out.

747
00:35:26,741 --> 00:35:29,822
Speaker 1: This is anyway.

748
00:35:30,221 --> 00:35:33,902
Speaker 3: My best was Holly Mayor and I went and got dinner.

749
00:35:34,261 --> 00:35:39,661
Speaker 3: We did oh okay, and I know anyway. We went

750
00:35:39,741 --> 00:35:41,822
Speaker 3: the other night and it was just so lovely. Because

751
00:35:42,862 --> 00:35:46,182
Speaker 3: we work together so closely, we make so much content.

752
00:35:46,261 --> 00:35:48,821
Speaker 3: It's like the work is intense, and of course there

753
00:35:48,862 --> 00:35:50,861
Speaker 3: are attentions and disagreements and all of that stuff that

754
00:35:50,942 --> 00:35:52,741
Speaker 3: comes closely.

755
00:35:53,622 --> 00:35:55,941
Speaker 2: People forget that you guys have known each other for

756
00:35:55,982 --> 00:35:56,461
Speaker 2: so long.

757
00:35:56,661 --> 00:36:00,062
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a long relationship and that The reason we

758
00:36:00,181 --> 00:36:02,701
Speaker 3: do this show is because we love talking to each other.

759
00:36:03,542 --> 00:36:07,902
Speaker 3: But when you start a podcast, the actual everyday chats

760
00:36:07,902 --> 00:36:10,901
Speaker 3: become less and less because you just so busy. So

761
00:36:11,302 --> 00:36:13,661
Speaker 3: it was so lovely to go and have dinner and

762
00:36:13,902 --> 00:36:15,381
Speaker 3: wine and carbohydrates, and.

763
00:36:15,462 --> 00:36:18,821
Speaker 1: Just like anyone was sitting near us, we wore goodness,

764
00:36:18,862 --> 00:36:21,582
Speaker 1: like just those annoying loud women in the restaurant. We

765
00:36:21,622 --> 00:36:27,662
Speaker 1: were laughing, we were like pushing each other inappropriate story.

766
00:36:27,902 --> 00:36:30,102
Speaker 2: It's fun until someone else is louder then you and

767
00:36:30,142 --> 00:36:31,462
Speaker 2: you're like, how dare you exactly?

768
00:36:31,701 --> 00:36:36,181
Speaker 3: It's a communal area. Can you put that toddler away?

769
00:36:36,261 --> 00:36:37,142
Speaker 3: What was your worst?

770
00:36:37,661 --> 00:36:38,942
Speaker 1: You know how there are people in the world who,

771
00:36:38,982 --> 00:36:41,301
Speaker 1: if they're going on a trip, planning the trip, it's

772
00:36:41,462 --> 00:36:42,622
Speaker 1: all the fun of the trip.

773
00:36:42,741 --> 00:36:43,861
Speaker 3: You're probably a bit like this.

774
00:36:44,022 --> 00:36:47,821
Speaker 1: Fuck no oh no, I, I just remembered that we're

775
00:36:47,862 --> 00:36:49,861
Speaker 1: the same person when it comes to this stuff. But

776
00:36:49,982 --> 00:36:52,662
Speaker 1: if you go on trips, some people love the planning process.

777
00:36:52,701 --> 00:36:56,382
Speaker 1: They've got their spreadsheets going, they're getting they love a research,

778
00:36:56,542 --> 00:36:59,062
Speaker 1: they're sharing lists with each other. They've all got like

779
00:36:59,462 --> 00:37:02,102
Speaker 1: people have got all the reco things and all that. Anyway,

780
00:37:02,181 --> 00:37:04,462
Speaker 1: we are lucky enough my family. We're going on a

781
00:37:04,462 --> 00:37:07,022
Speaker 1: proper holiday in the next school holidays cannot wait, and

782
00:37:07,062 --> 00:37:09,221
Speaker 1: we're going to see my parents, which I cannot wait

783
00:37:09,261 --> 00:37:11,862
Speaker 1: because they can't come here anymore and I'm dying.

784
00:37:11,622 --> 00:37:12,102
Speaker 3: To see them.

785
00:37:12,502 --> 00:37:16,701
Speaker 1: Anyway, I have done nothing about this holiday. And so

786
00:37:16,862 --> 00:37:19,382
Speaker 1: the other day I was like, Okay, I'm going to

787
00:37:19,422 --> 00:37:23,502
Speaker 1: book some things and I got scammed immediately. I went

788
00:37:23,542 --> 00:37:26,341
Speaker 1: online to book a walking tour in a city and

789
00:37:26,382 --> 00:37:29,102
Speaker 1: I went that looks legit. By then I didn't get

790
00:37:29,142 --> 00:37:31,582
Speaker 1: an email thing. And then I was like, oh, that's

791
00:37:31,582 --> 00:37:33,942
Speaker 1: something about that smells wrong. And I went and googled

792
00:37:33,942 --> 00:37:35,861
Speaker 1: and it was like, do not book this tour.

793
00:37:35,942 --> 00:37:38,422
Speaker 3: It's a scam. And I was like, oh no.

794
00:37:39,142 --> 00:37:41,862
Speaker 1: And then people are saying, have you booked this dinner

795
00:37:41,902 --> 00:37:43,902
Speaker 1: and you going to this place? And I'm like, no,

796
00:37:44,022 --> 00:37:47,381
Speaker 1: I haven't done anything, and I'm just disorganized. I'm down

797
00:37:47,422 --> 00:37:50,822
Speaker 1: a couple of hundred dollars. I'm like, I just don't

798
00:37:51,022 --> 00:37:51,982
Speaker 1: know how people do.

799
00:37:52,342 --> 00:37:54,942
Speaker 3: Two things. The first thing is that the best walking

800
00:37:55,342 --> 00:37:58,261
Speaker 3: tours in Europe auf free. You have to do your

801
00:37:58,261 --> 00:38:01,781
Speaker 3: free walking tours. The second thing is everyone says, and look,

802
00:38:02,181 --> 00:38:05,222
Speaker 3: I'm not a great adopter of AI, but everyone says

803
00:38:05,221 --> 00:38:06,622
Speaker 3: that chat GPT is organizing.

804
00:38:06,822 --> 00:38:08,142
Speaker 2: Yes, that's what you should be doing.

805
00:38:08,261 --> 00:38:10,342
Speaker 3: So you need to just say his where I'm going.

806
00:38:10,382 --> 00:38:13,221
Speaker 1: Tell me what to tell me what to do to teenagers.

807
00:38:12,701 --> 00:38:15,661
Speaker 3: Like exactly what it is? Top, Like, I think you're

808
00:38:15,701 --> 00:38:18,142
Speaker 3: meant to tell chat GPT what it is. So you go,

809
00:38:18,221 --> 00:38:21,462
Speaker 3: you're a travel agent and I'm going to blah and

810
00:38:21,502 --> 00:38:23,942
Speaker 3: I have three days what are the things I should do?

811
00:38:24,062 --> 00:38:25,142
Speaker 3: And that'll do it for you.

812
00:38:25,422 --> 00:38:28,301
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you can download it as a spreadsheet

813
00:38:28,422 --> 00:38:29,502
Speaker 1: when I book things.

814
00:38:29,582 --> 00:38:31,382
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, stupid.

815
00:38:30,982 --> 00:38:36,181
Speaker 2: Person, you'll be like, firstly, don't get scared a boomer problems.

816
00:38:36,422 --> 00:38:39,861
Speaker 1: Cool Beet was really really annoyed with me. He was

817
00:38:39,942 --> 00:38:42,382
Speaker 1: just like, I can't believe you did that. The best

818
00:38:42,582 --> 00:38:45,582
Speaker 1: is again a little live thing, right. But we bought

819
00:38:45,582 --> 00:38:49,342
Speaker 1: a new dishwasher that is a flex. But we moved

820
00:38:49,342 --> 00:38:51,542
Speaker 1: into our house three years ago now, the house that

821
00:38:51,582 --> 00:38:54,502
Speaker 1: we moved into down the coast, and we've been living

822
00:38:54,542 --> 00:38:57,142
Speaker 1: with a dishwasher that doesn't quite work for three years.

823
00:38:57,221 --> 00:39:00,942
Speaker 1: And there is something so infuriating about putting on a

824
00:39:00,942 --> 00:39:03,661
Speaker 1: whole like her family of four go through a lot

825
00:39:03,701 --> 00:39:07,102
Speaker 1: of dishes every day, about opening that dishwasher and pulling

826
00:39:07,181 --> 00:39:08,822
Speaker 1: out every glass and it's a bit dirty.

827
00:39:08,942 --> 00:39:09,502
Speaker 3: Every bowl.

828
00:39:09,701 --> 00:39:11,982
Speaker 1: It's still got pasta sauce on the bottom every and

829
00:39:12,062 --> 00:39:14,502
Speaker 1: so then remember there was that viral article a few

830
00:39:14,582 --> 00:39:16,582
Speaker 1: years ago, run the dishwasher twice.

831
00:39:16,502 --> 00:39:17,862
Speaker 3: Terrible for the environment, terrible.

832
00:39:18,661 --> 00:39:21,182
Speaker 1: It was kind of like this, you know, mental load

833
00:39:21,302 --> 00:39:24,301
Speaker 1: hack of like if the dishwasher isn't working, just I

834
00:39:24,342 --> 00:39:27,822
Speaker 1: could run that dishwasher twenty five times. I didn't because environment.

835
00:39:28,261 --> 00:39:30,301
Speaker 1: For months, I've been saying, we just need to bite

836
00:39:30,302 --> 00:39:33,542
Speaker 1: the bullet and buy a new dishwasher. Like, yeah, anyway,

837
00:39:33,862 --> 00:39:36,142
Speaker 1: we finally did get a new dishwasher, not a very

838
00:39:36,142 --> 00:39:39,342
Speaker 1: expensive one, came around, got it installed. Just the joy

839
00:39:39,661 --> 00:39:42,502
Speaker 1: of opening a dishwasher and pulling out a glass and

840
00:39:42,542 --> 00:39:45,301
Speaker 1: it being clean has improved my quality of life. I

841
00:39:45,302 --> 00:39:46,622
Speaker 1: would say maybe forty percent.

842
00:39:46,701 --> 00:39:49,902
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a little thing, very very basic.

843
00:39:50,582 --> 00:39:52,742
Speaker 1: Just the happiness and the kids, because the kids empty

844
00:39:52,741 --> 00:39:53,262
Speaker 1: the dishwasher.

845
00:39:53,302 --> 00:39:54,221
Speaker 3: That's a kid job, right.

846
00:39:54,622 --> 00:39:56,701
Speaker 1: They would be little shits and always be like, it's

847
00:39:56,701 --> 00:39:57,701
Speaker 1: all dirty and just.

848
00:39:57,661 --> 00:39:59,262
Speaker 3: Put it all in the sink and walk away.

849
00:40:00,502 --> 00:40:03,741
Speaker 1: Now I'm like, no, it's not put it all in

850
00:40:03,781 --> 00:40:08,022
Speaker 1: the cupboards. It's like a functioning dishwasher has made my week.

851
00:40:08,462 --> 00:40:09,302
Speaker 2: I love that.

852
00:40:10,542 --> 00:40:12,862
Speaker 1: Thank you. Out loud as we have come to the

853
00:40:12,982 --> 00:40:15,302
Speaker 1: end of a week. If momame are out loud another week,

854
00:40:15,741 --> 00:40:20,422
Speaker 1: Emily Vernon, massive, thanks for you today. We appreciate you.

855
00:40:20,502 --> 00:40:23,821
Speaker 2: I was just noticing over there, I'm literally in her shadow.

856
00:40:23,342 --> 00:40:27,701
Speaker 1: In our glorious news studios. We've got the cardboard cutouts

857
00:40:27,741 --> 00:40:30,102
Speaker 1: of ourselves that we had on tour, and then there's

858
00:40:30,142 --> 00:40:32,982
Speaker 1: just a little picture of member and I don't think

859
00:40:33,022 --> 00:40:35,421
Speaker 1: Amilia is even there. Maybe she lives somewhere, but she's

860
00:40:35,502 --> 00:40:38,022
Speaker 1: hidden under you. You look very saucy in that picture. Anyway,

861
00:40:38,862 --> 00:40:41,022
Speaker 1: massive thank you to all of our team. Do you

862
00:40:41,062 --> 00:40:42,221
Speaker 1: too want to tell us who they are?

863
00:40:42,582 --> 00:40:46,262
Speaker 3: A big thank you too? Group executive producer Ruth Devine,

864
00:40:46,382 --> 00:40:49,742
Speaker 3: executive producer Emiline Gazillis.

865
00:40:49,261 --> 00:40:53,142
Speaker 2: Our audio producers Leah Porge's video producer Josh Green, and

866
00:40:53,181 --> 00:40:56,982
Speaker 2: our junior content producers Coco and Tessa and Mama Mea

867
00:40:57,022 --> 00:41:00,222
Speaker 2: Studios are style with furniture from Fentin and Fentin. Visit

868
00:41:00,261 --> 00:41:02,262
Speaker 2: Fentin Andfentin dot com dot au.

869
00:41:02,622 --> 00:41:08,102
Speaker 1: Goodbye bye, oh Jesse. Before we go, you have some news.

870
00:41:08,142 --> 00:41:11,462
Speaker 3: It's not all from me this way, Collie, because we

871
00:41:11,542 --> 00:41:15,622
Speaker 3: have a very special mini series dropping over the weekend.

872
00:41:16,302 --> 00:41:19,661
Speaker 3: It is parenting out Loud, That's what we're calling it.

873
00:41:19,741 --> 00:41:22,382
Speaker 3: So what it is is we sit in the meetings

874
00:41:22,462 --> 00:41:24,622
Speaker 3: and we have so many ideas and so many pictures

875
00:41:24,622 --> 00:41:26,342
Speaker 3: of things we want to discuss. It are in the culture,

876
00:41:26,422 --> 00:41:29,661
Speaker 3: in the zeitgeist, and sometimes with parenting stories. I mean,

877
00:41:29,822 --> 00:41:32,142
Speaker 3: there is a significant portion of our audience that don't

878
00:41:32,142 --> 00:41:34,222
Speaker 3: have kids, or maybe they don't want to talk about parenting,

879
00:41:34,302 --> 00:41:36,542
Speaker 3: or maybe it's a pain point. So we've always got

880
00:41:36,582 --> 00:41:39,741
Speaker 3: to be really careful, and we thought, what if there

881
00:41:39,741 --> 00:41:41,701
Speaker 3: are these stories we want to talk about. Some of

882
00:41:41,781 --> 00:41:44,382
Speaker 3: them are kind of really big ones that are METI

883
00:41:44,502 --> 00:41:47,422
Speaker 3: that we find ourselves gravitating towards. What if we just

884
00:41:47,462 --> 00:41:50,422
Speaker 3: fence them off and put them on a weekend episode,

885
00:41:50,661 --> 00:41:53,701
Speaker 3: call it parenting out Loud and have a chat. And

886
00:41:53,741 --> 00:41:56,821
Speaker 3: so Amelia and I, Amelia Lester and I, who you know,

887
00:41:58,142 --> 00:42:01,142
Speaker 3: our own little sampit. I'm so excited where we talk

888
00:42:01,142 --> 00:42:05,181
Speaker 3: about parenting. And look, it's not about wheatbix near hair right.

889
00:42:05,462 --> 00:42:07,781
Speaker 3: It is not mother's group, it's not our vibe. It

890
00:42:07,902 --> 00:42:10,342
Speaker 3: is more like stories that make your work feel bigger.

891
00:42:10,902 --> 00:42:14,542
Speaker 3: It's thinky, it's fun. We have had so much fun

892
00:42:14,781 --> 00:42:18,582
Speaker 3: making this podcast. So stay tuned. It will drop tomorrow

893
00:42:18,701 --> 00:42:20,062
Speaker 3: the first episode.

894
00:42:19,822 --> 00:42:22,422
Speaker 1: And it's a mini series, so it's like a collection

895
00:42:22,502 --> 00:42:24,342
Speaker 1: of episodes, yes, and then we'll.

896
00:42:24,181 --> 00:42:28,102
Speaker 3: See exactly it's mixed episodes and we do like special

897
00:42:28,181 --> 00:42:32,181
Speaker 3: parenting recommendations and all that kind of stuff, celebrity features,

898
00:42:32,221 --> 00:42:33,781
Speaker 3: all that kind of stuff is in it, but it's

899
00:42:33,781 --> 00:42:34,822
Speaker 3: through the lens of parenting.

900
00:42:35,062 --> 00:42:39,221
Speaker 1: I'm so excited, parenting out loud. It's dropping on Saturday mornings.

901
00:42:39,862 --> 00:42:42,821
Speaker 3: Shout out to any Mum and MEA subscribers listening. If

902
00:42:42,822 --> 00:42:44,781
Speaker 3: you love the show and you want to support us,

903
00:42:45,062 --> 00:42:47,942
Speaker 3: subscribing to MoMA Mia is the very best way to

904
00:42:48,022 --> 00:42:50,462
Speaker 3: do so. There's a link in the episode description.