1 00:00:11,582 --> 00:00:14,302 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mother Mea podcast. 2 00:00:15,022 --> 00:00:18,462 Speaker 2: Mamma Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and orders. 3 00:00:18,662 --> 00:00:23,542 Speaker 2: This podcast was recorded on Hi True Crime Conversations listeners. 4 00:00:23,582 --> 00:00:25,742 Speaker 2: It's your host, Gemma, and I'm jumping back into your 5 00:00:25,782 --> 00:00:29,022 Speaker 2: ears today to share an important episode with you. It's 6 00:00:29,022 --> 00:00:32,582 Speaker 2: from Mamma MIA's news podcast, The Quickie, hosted by Claire Murphy. 7 00:00:33,142 --> 00:00:36,382 Speaker 2: She spoke to me for a recent episode investigating whether 8 00:00:36,422 --> 00:00:39,462 Speaker 2: there is a Byron Bay serial killer on the loose. 9 00:00:39,822 --> 00:00:43,302 Speaker 2: Right now, people are starting to connect the dots between 10 00:00:43,382 --> 00:00:46,862 Speaker 2: multiple cases of women going missing or being murdered in 11 00:00:46,902 --> 00:00:50,982 Speaker 2: the Byron and New South Wales coastal areas, including women 12 00:00:51,022 --> 00:00:54,062 Speaker 2: with their own first hand accounts. You may have seen 13 00:00:54,062 --> 00:00:57,622 Speaker 2: these women on TikTok and Instagram while you've been scrolling. 14 00:00:57,942 --> 00:01:00,382 Speaker 2: And in this episode, Claire and I talk about how 15 00:01:00,542 --> 00:01:03,542 Speaker 2: likely it is that all of these cases and run 16 00:01:03,542 --> 00:01:07,022 Speaker 2: ins are actually linked. Let us know what you think 17 00:01:07,062 --> 00:01:09,382 Speaker 2: of the episode and I'll see you next week for 18 00:01:09,462 --> 00:01:11,022 Speaker 2: another true crime conversation. 19 00:01:15,542 --> 00:01:18,702 Speaker 3: Hi. I'm Claire Murphy. This is Mumma MIA's twice daily 20 00:01:18,742 --> 00:01:21,542 Speaker 3: news podcast, The Quickie. We all love a bit of 21 00:01:21,542 --> 00:01:25,342 Speaker 3: true crime, right It's weirdly soothing listening to stories of 22 00:01:25,502 --> 00:01:29,262 Speaker 3: horrible things happening to someone else, somewhere else. But what 23 00:01:29,302 --> 00:01:32,862 Speaker 3: if that true crime gets a little too close to home, Like. 24 00:01:32,862 --> 00:01:35,182 Speaker 4: I looked at this man and I felt terror. 25 00:01:35,942 --> 00:01:39,182 Speaker 3: There's a theory being floated that the worst serial killer 26 00:01:39,262 --> 00:01:42,542 Speaker 3: in Australian history could be behind dozens of missing and 27 00:01:42,622 --> 00:01:45,222 Speaker 3: murdered New South Wales women, and there are some first 28 00:01:45,222 --> 00:01:47,782 Speaker 3: hand accounts from those who feel they might have even 29 00:01:47,822 --> 00:01:51,182 Speaker 3: been a potential target. Today we look at the alarming 30 00:01:51,222 --> 00:01:55,062 Speaker 3: similarity of more than sixty unsolved crimes and wonder if 31 00:01:55,062 --> 00:02:08,022 Speaker 3: they might all be linked. Last month, Melbourne woman Kayleie 32 00:02:08,102 --> 00:02:10,422 Speaker 3: was walking alone in the northern New South Wales suburb 33 00:02:10,622 --> 00:02:12,942 Speaker 3: of Suffolk Park. It was around four pm on a 34 00:02:12,982 --> 00:02:15,422 Speaker 3: Saturday afternoon and she was going to meet friends at 35 00:02:15,422 --> 00:02:18,142 Speaker 3: the beach when a car all of a sudden pulled 36 00:02:18,222 --> 00:02:18,822 Speaker 3: up beside her. 37 00:02:19,982 --> 00:02:22,462 Speaker 4: As I'm walking, there is a car that pulls up 38 00:02:22,862 --> 00:02:24,622 Speaker 4: like on the other side of the parked cast me 39 00:02:24,622 --> 00:02:26,342 Speaker 4: there in the middle of the road. I look into 40 00:02:26,382 --> 00:02:29,182 Speaker 4: the car and it's a young couple and the woman 41 00:02:29,222 --> 00:02:31,262 Speaker 4: in the passenger seat he's looking at me, and then 42 00:02:31,262 --> 00:02:34,942 Speaker 4: she's looking behind me at something and she looks terrified, 43 00:02:34,982 --> 00:02:37,382 Speaker 4: and I was like, what on earth is going on? 44 00:02:37,742 --> 00:02:41,222 Speaker 4: So I look behind me to see a man a 45 00:02:41,222 --> 00:02:43,462 Speaker 4: couple of meters behind me. And this man does not 46 00:02:43,582 --> 00:02:47,062 Speaker 4: look dressed for where we are. It's like thirty degrees 47 00:02:47,102 --> 00:02:50,302 Speaker 4: and he is in gloves, which I thought was really freaky. 48 00:02:50,342 --> 00:02:52,822 Speaker 4: Like I looked at this man and I felt terror. 49 00:02:52,982 --> 00:02:55,302 Speaker 4: The thing is is for that man to be as 50 00:02:55,342 --> 00:02:56,782 Speaker 4: close to me as he was, he had to have 51 00:02:56,862 --> 00:02:59,662 Speaker 4: run up on me because I had already been checking 52 00:02:59,702 --> 00:03:01,862 Speaker 4: behind me because I'm just like that type of person. 53 00:03:01,902 --> 00:03:04,422 Speaker 4: As soon as I look at him, he disappears, either 54 00:03:04,462 --> 00:03:07,102 Speaker 4: like down this side street or like into somebody's front yard. 55 00:03:07,182 --> 00:03:09,702 Speaker 4: I wouldn't have even noticed this man if not for 56 00:03:09,782 --> 00:03:12,942 Speaker 4: the fact that the couple in the car were distressed 57 00:03:12,942 --> 00:03:14,822 Speaker 4: and they'd pulled over. Every single part of me felt 58 00:03:14,862 --> 00:03:18,342 Speaker 4: like that was a really really close encounter with something 59 00:03:18,422 --> 00:03:19,102 Speaker 4: really evil. 60 00:03:20,182 --> 00:03:23,062 Speaker 3: Kaylie says she informed local police, but found them to 61 00:03:23,062 --> 00:03:26,822 Speaker 3: be dismissive of her experience. Her TikTok comments section, though, 62 00:03:27,222 --> 00:03:32,822 Speaker 3: was flooded with similar experiences, experiences like Laura Claire's. Laura 63 00:03:32,902 --> 00:03:35,342 Speaker 3: is a Barron Bay local who's been documenting her run 64 00:03:35,342 --> 00:03:39,382 Speaker 3: ins a info about the alleged Byron Bay serial killer. Laura, 65 00:03:39,462 --> 00:03:41,022 Speaker 3: can you talk us through that day where you and 66 00:03:41,022 --> 00:03:42,942 Speaker 3: your friend decided to go hitch hiking? Yeah? 67 00:03:43,022 --> 00:03:46,742 Speaker 5: Sure, I think Byron has this this hold on people. 68 00:03:46,902 --> 00:03:49,942 Speaker 5: It's just this idolistic kind of town and there's a 69 00:03:49,982 --> 00:03:52,822 Speaker 5: lot of people hitch hiking there, and you just have 70 00:03:52,902 --> 00:03:55,902 Speaker 5: this sense of safety. Well I did when I first 71 00:03:55,942 --> 00:03:59,182 Speaker 5: went there, obviously. So my friend and I needed to 72 00:03:59,182 --> 00:04:02,582 Speaker 5: get from Byron to Suffolk. It was a really hot day. 73 00:04:03,462 --> 00:04:07,102 Speaker 5: I suggested that we hitch hike. She had never hitch 74 00:04:07,182 --> 00:04:09,102 Speaker 5: hike before and was very much against it, and I 75 00:04:09,182 --> 00:04:11,422 Speaker 5: kind of convinced her it wasn't a very long distance 76 00:04:11,542 --> 00:04:13,982 Speaker 5: and it was safe and all the things that I 77 00:04:13,982 --> 00:04:17,142 Speaker 5: shouldn't have said, all the things that I felt, a 78 00:04:17,222 --> 00:04:19,862 Speaker 5: sense of safety that I shouldn't have felt. So we 79 00:04:20,302 --> 00:04:22,302 Speaker 5: go to hit to Ride and this van pulls up. 80 00:04:22,462 --> 00:04:26,342 Speaker 5: He's so normal looking I can barely remember his details, 81 00:04:26,582 --> 00:04:30,542 Speaker 5: and he seemed to look very friendly as well. So 82 00:04:30,862 --> 00:04:34,182 Speaker 5: my friend I put her in the back and I 83 00:04:34,222 --> 00:04:35,622 Speaker 5: went to sit in the front and there was a 84 00:04:35,662 --> 00:04:39,902 Speaker 5: big knife on the front seat, and not having any 85 00:04:39,902 --> 00:04:42,622 Speaker 5: survival instincts at all, I just grabbed the knife and 86 00:04:42,662 --> 00:04:46,742 Speaker 5: put it on the floor to get in, and I 87 00:04:46,782 --> 00:04:50,142 Speaker 5: think I even asked him permission to do so. And 88 00:04:50,702 --> 00:04:53,702 Speaker 5: then I kind of just out of curiosity, was like, oh, 89 00:04:53,782 --> 00:04:54,502 Speaker 5: what's the knife for? 90 00:04:55,262 --> 00:04:58,142 Speaker 1: And he said that he was a chef. And that's 91 00:04:58,222 --> 00:04:58,902 Speaker 1: kind of when. 92 00:04:58,742 --> 00:05:02,422 Speaker 5: I started to feel uncomfortable. Most people would have felt 93 00:05:02,462 --> 00:05:06,222 Speaker 5: uncomfortable hit hiking. This is where I started to feel uncomfortable. 94 00:05:06,662 --> 00:05:09,462 Speaker 5: The knife was very rusty, the knife did not look 95 00:05:09,502 --> 00:05:10,422 Speaker 5: like it should go anyway. 96 00:05:10,462 --> 00:05:11,262 Speaker 1: We're near food. 97 00:05:12,022 --> 00:05:14,942 Speaker 5: It just kind of started mulling in my mind, and 98 00:05:14,982 --> 00:05:16,822 Speaker 5: I said, Oh, where are you a chef? Because I 99 00:05:16,862 --> 00:05:20,422 Speaker 5: thought maybe i'd know the restaurant or you know, just 100 00:05:20,742 --> 00:05:24,262 Speaker 5: get some comfort in knowing that he worked around the area. 101 00:05:24,782 --> 00:05:26,742 Speaker 5: And he said, oh, I'm not working at the moment. 102 00:05:27,262 --> 00:05:29,982 Speaker 5: And that's when I just went, Okay, I don't feel 103 00:05:29,982 --> 00:05:32,702 Speaker 5: comfortable here. We need to get out of this situation. 104 00:05:32,862 --> 00:05:35,462 Speaker 5: And so I said, oh, yeah, that's us just up there. 105 00:05:36,142 --> 00:05:37,822 Speaker 5: He led us out of the van like we got out. 106 00:05:37,662 --> 00:05:38,102 Speaker 1: Of the van. 107 00:05:38,622 --> 00:05:43,022 Speaker 5: So that was my experience, and honestly, I don't think 108 00:05:43,022 --> 00:05:46,702 Speaker 5: I even thought about it again after that day for 109 00:05:46,742 --> 00:05:49,702 Speaker 5: a long time, but a few friends of mine have 110 00:05:49,822 --> 00:05:52,102 Speaker 5: contacted me in the last couple of days and said, oh, 111 00:05:52,182 --> 00:05:54,382 Speaker 5: you told me about that story, so it has sort 112 00:05:54,382 --> 00:05:57,222 Speaker 5: of stuck with me, but not as much as it 113 00:05:57,262 --> 00:05:57,902 Speaker 5: probably should have. 114 00:05:58,462 --> 00:06:01,382 Speaker 3: Well, can you explain what happened after you shared that 115 00:06:01,502 --> 00:06:04,782 Speaker 3: story publicly? Because we've seen this happen with other women 116 00:06:04,862 --> 00:06:07,302 Speaker 3: too in the area who've shared their close encounters that 117 00:06:07,382 --> 00:06:09,782 Speaker 3: it's essentially kind of opened up the floodgates. 118 00:06:10,422 --> 00:06:14,662 Speaker 5: Absolutely has, and it's quite distressing. In my mind. I 119 00:06:14,702 --> 00:06:16,822 Speaker 5: was going to share this story about what happened, I 120 00:06:16,862 --> 00:06:20,542 Speaker 5: was either going to have people going, you're overreacting or 121 00:06:20,622 --> 00:06:23,502 Speaker 5: people going, oh my god, that was really scary. I 122 00:06:23,542 --> 00:06:28,022 Speaker 5: didn't prepare myself for hundreds of women coming forward speaking 123 00:06:28,102 --> 00:06:34,102 Speaker 5: about close call encounters, rapes, drink spikings, names of people 124 00:06:34,422 --> 00:06:36,302 Speaker 5: that are dangerous in the area. 125 00:06:36,782 --> 00:06:36,982 Speaker 3: You know. 126 00:06:37,102 --> 00:06:40,902 Speaker 5: I just wasn't prepared for the volume. I wasn't prepared 127 00:06:41,222 --> 00:06:45,462 Speaker 5: for the horrific details, and it's just so alarming, and 128 00:06:46,182 --> 00:06:48,822 Speaker 5: at times I felt defeated because I'm like, how do 129 00:06:48,902 --> 00:06:49,342 Speaker 5: we help? 130 00:06:50,022 --> 00:06:50,902 Speaker 1: How do we change this? 131 00:06:51,542 --> 00:06:56,102 Speaker 5: Like what do we do? Obviously my first point is 132 00:06:56,142 --> 00:06:59,822 Speaker 5: to call the police and report what you know, but 133 00:06:59,902 --> 00:07:01,982 Speaker 5: in a lot of these cases, they were actually let 134 00:07:02,062 --> 00:07:05,382 Speaker 5: down by the police in either not showing up on 135 00:07:05,422 --> 00:07:08,662 Speaker 5: the scene, taking too long to get to the scene 136 00:07:08,662 --> 00:07:11,302 Speaker 5: where they were no longer in danger, saying that they 137 00:07:11,342 --> 00:07:15,862 Speaker 5: didn't have enough information, not taking down details, telling them 138 00:07:15,862 --> 00:07:18,942 Speaker 5: to go home when they went into the station, the stress, 139 00:07:19,222 --> 00:07:20,622 Speaker 5: all of that kind of stuff as well. 140 00:07:21,382 --> 00:07:23,502 Speaker 3: This is something that a lot of women come up 141 00:07:23,502 --> 00:07:25,902 Speaker 3: against when it comes to crimes against them like this, 142 00:07:26,142 --> 00:07:29,422 Speaker 3: and another of its nature is that police are so 143 00:07:29,542 --> 00:07:32,942 Speaker 3: under resourced. These are sometimes put in the two hard basket, 144 00:07:33,622 --> 00:07:36,622 Speaker 3: especially when there's many, many of them to look at. 145 00:07:37,142 --> 00:07:40,622 Speaker 3: But I think what we have realized when yourself and 146 00:07:40,702 --> 00:07:44,182 Speaker 3: others who are also looking at crimes against women like 147 00:07:44,262 --> 00:07:46,422 Speaker 3: this in the area where you live, is that when 148 00:07:46,462 --> 00:07:48,702 Speaker 3: you start to map this out, that map starts to 149 00:07:48,742 --> 00:07:51,022 Speaker 3: look very crowded, doesn't it, Like with if you were 150 00:07:51,062 --> 00:07:54,382 Speaker 3: to pin all of these instances to a real physical map, 151 00:07:55,102 --> 00:07:56,902 Speaker 3: like there'd be no space in between. 152 00:07:57,342 --> 00:08:00,582 Speaker 5: And look, this has been common knowledge among locals for years, 153 00:08:00,622 --> 00:08:04,542 Speaker 5: and I think one of the biggest things that kind 154 00:08:04,542 --> 00:08:07,622 Speaker 5: of is terrifying is these are maps of women that 155 00:08:07,622 --> 00:08:10,582 Speaker 5: have gone missing or died. It would be interesting to 156 00:08:10,582 --> 00:08:13,422 Speaker 5: see a map of women that have been assaulted because 157 00:08:13,902 --> 00:08:17,782 Speaker 5: what I've heard in the last seventy two hours is 158 00:08:17,862 --> 00:08:21,742 Speaker 5: a lot a lot of assaults and people that didn't 159 00:08:21,782 --> 00:08:25,222 Speaker 5: die that are left with the consequences of this, and 160 00:08:25,342 --> 00:08:28,742 Speaker 5: these can often be behaviors in the lead up to 161 00:08:29,622 --> 00:08:33,622 Speaker 5: worse crimes. Some of these haven't been reported or weren't 162 00:08:33,662 --> 00:08:37,262 Speaker 5: reported or it's interesting with a lot of this information 163 00:08:37,502 --> 00:08:40,982 Speaker 5: women when they haven't reported it, I've asked them why. 164 00:08:41,422 --> 00:08:45,382 Speaker 5: And there's quite a common thread of young women being 165 00:08:45,382 --> 00:08:46,822 Speaker 5: worried that they were going to get in trouble with 166 00:08:46,862 --> 00:08:48,542 Speaker 5: their parents for not being where they were supposed to. 167 00:08:49,382 --> 00:08:51,462 Speaker 5: And so I think that there's a lot of information 168 00:08:51,542 --> 00:08:53,902 Speaker 5: out there that we're not getting through to the legal 169 00:08:53,942 --> 00:08:57,382 Speaker 5: system either. But in the case of the map and 170 00:08:57,622 --> 00:09:02,102 Speaker 5: how many crimes happen in this area, it is unbelievably high. 171 00:09:02,262 --> 00:09:05,182 Speaker 5: And when you're going to a town like Byron and 172 00:09:05,222 --> 00:09:08,462 Speaker 5: you don't live there, you have this kind of view 173 00:09:08,502 --> 00:09:12,182 Speaker 5: of it, like I did, that it was this sleepy 174 00:09:12,582 --> 00:09:16,462 Speaker 5: coastal town. And so when you have that view of 175 00:09:16,462 --> 00:09:19,942 Speaker 5: a town, you're walking around doing things that you do 176 00:09:19,982 --> 00:09:21,782 Speaker 5: on holiday that you probably wouldn't do it at home, 177 00:09:21,942 --> 00:09:26,502 Speaker 5: and you're not really fearing for your safety or being 178 00:09:26,582 --> 00:09:30,262 Speaker 5: concerned about it at all because you're not hearing about 179 00:09:30,262 --> 00:09:33,542 Speaker 5: it on the news and you're not realizing actually that 180 00:09:33,702 --> 00:09:35,742 Speaker 5: you may be in danger. Like I had a friend 181 00:09:35,862 --> 00:09:39,142 Speaker 5: of mine that lives in Byron and I was talking 182 00:09:39,142 --> 00:09:41,102 Speaker 5: to her about it, and she said, I'd rather walk 183 00:09:41,142 --> 00:09:44,462 Speaker 5: around alone in the Cross or Redfern than I would 184 00:09:44,542 --> 00:09:44,902 Speaker 5: en Byron. 185 00:09:45,542 --> 00:09:46,982 Speaker 1: It's well known by. 186 00:09:46,942 --> 00:09:49,342 Speaker 5: The locals, and I think, you know Kaylee, the other 187 00:09:49,382 --> 00:09:52,222 Speaker 5: girl that spoke out about it, she kind of got 188 00:09:52,502 --> 00:09:55,102 Speaker 5: attacked and shut down when she first came out about it, 189 00:09:55,262 --> 00:09:57,902 Speaker 5: and a lot of that was by the locals. You 190 00:09:57,902 --> 00:09:59,782 Speaker 5: don't want to try that with me because I've lived 191 00:09:59,862 --> 00:10:03,222 Speaker 5: there and I can name, you know, incidences that happen 192 00:10:03,262 --> 00:10:06,222 Speaker 5: and people that have gone missing, and no one from 193 00:10:06,262 --> 00:10:08,422 Speaker 5: the community has tried to say to me, no, no, 194 00:10:08,502 --> 00:10:10,982 Speaker 5: it's not no, it didn't happen. Because when you live there, 195 00:10:10,982 --> 00:10:13,102 Speaker 5: you know, it's very easy to shut down a girl 196 00:10:13,142 --> 00:10:15,142 Speaker 5: from Melbourne that was visiting a week because she just 197 00:10:15,222 --> 00:10:17,942 Speaker 5: had this bad experience and she had a very off 198 00:10:17,982 --> 00:10:20,782 Speaker 5: feeling about it. But if you live there, you know, 199 00:10:21,342 --> 00:10:24,502 Speaker 5: trying to cover it up for the sake of tourism 200 00:10:24,662 --> 00:10:28,662 Speaker 5: or house prices or whatever it is is actually doing 201 00:10:28,702 --> 00:10:30,302 Speaker 5: the town at disservice. 202 00:10:30,822 --> 00:10:35,262 Speaker 3: Laura, you said that when the hitch hiking incident happened, 203 00:10:35,422 --> 00:10:37,822 Speaker 3: you kind of dismissed it and almost essentially forgot about 204 00:10:37,822 --> 00:10:41,462 Speaker 3: it until now. Would you say the same thing now, 205 00:10:41,862 --> 00:10:44,062 Speaker 3: with all the responses that you got to it and 206 00:10:44,102 --> 00:10:46,062 Speaker 3: all the stories that you've heard, do you feel like 207 00:10:46,102 --> 00:10:49,062 Speaker 3: that has now changed you where that hitch hiking incident didn't. 208 00:10:49,502 --> 00:10:52,262 Speaker 5: It's interesting because the hitch hiking incident, when I think 209 00:10:52,262 --> 00:10:54,382 Speaker 5: about it at a core level, did change me. I 210 00:10:54,462 --> 00:10:56,542 Speaker 5: hit taged once again after that, but I was in 211 00:10:56,582 --> 00:11:00,102 Speaker 5: a very desperate situation. I remember thinking I shouldn't be 212 00:11:00,182 --> 00:11:03,982 Speaker 5: doing this, So it did change me at that level. 213 00:11:03,982 --> 00:11:08,262 Speaker 5: But what it's kind of changed for me now as 214 00:11:08,302 --> 00:11:12,702 Speaker 5: a woman, especially after speaking out about this, is just 215 00:11:12,902 --> 00:11:15,822 Speaker 5: how careful I need to be. Like I was walking 216 00:11:15,862 --> 00:11:19,902 Speaker 5: my dog yesterday and I just went wow, Like, I'm 217 00:11:19,942 --> 00:11:22,062 Speaker 5: not as aware of my surroundings as I should be, 218 00:11:22,182 --> 00:11:24,822 Speaker 5: and maybe I need to be more careful in a 219 00:11:24,862 --> 00:11:27,382 Speaker 5: lot of other areas in my life, because after hearing 220 00:11:27,582 --> 00:11:30,422 Speaker 5: the things that I did and reading what I have 221 00:11:30,582 --> 00:11:34,022 Speaker 5: in the last seventy two hours, it's pretty bleak. 222 00:11:35,182 --> 00:11:37,382 Speaker 3: While Laura is thinking her lucky stars that she and 223 00:11:37,422 --> 00:11:39,982 Speaker 3: her friend didn't find themselves potentially in the path of 224 00:11:39,982 --> 00:11:43,102 Speaker 3: a killer. There are potentially more than sixty others who 225 00:11:43,142 --> 00:11:46,622 Speaker 3: weren't so lucky. Last week, New South Wales MP Jeremy 226 00:11:46,622 --> 00:11:50,262 Speaker 3: Buckingham addressed State Parliament stating that the worst serial killer 227 00:11:50,262 --> 00:11:52,542 Speaker 3: in the nation's history has gotten away with it. 228 00:11:53,062 --> 00:11:56,742 Speaker 6: Ivan Malat, was convicted of seven murders. There is someone 229 00:11:56,782 --> 00:11:59,862 Speaker 6: on the North Coast that has murdered as many or 230 00:11:59,862 --> 00:12:03,502 Speaker 6: more and they are still amongst us sixty seven the 231 00:12:03,622 --> 00:12:08,422 Speaker 6: numbers of unsolved homicides of women on the north coast 232 00:12:08,462 --> 00:12:13,462 Speaker 6: of New South Wales, and as indication that someone operated 233 00:12:13,542 --> 00:12:17,862 Speaker 6: in that area, traveled that area, lived across that area 234 00:12:17,902 --> 00:12:23,782 Speaker 6: and took women, destroyed their bodies, destroyed their lives and 235 00:12:23,862 --> 00:12:27,742 Speaker 6: it's appalling that it's taken so long for this matter 236 00:12:27,902 --> 00:12:30,382 Speaker 6: to come before House and to public attention. 237 00:12:32,102 --> 00:12:35,262 Speaker 3: Buckingham told Parliament that he's been called alarmist because his 238 00:12:35,382 --> 00:12:38,342 Speaker 3: view and the view of some senior police like Detective 239 00:12:38,382 --> 00:12:41,942 Speaker 3: Gary McAvoy, who investigated these matters from Coffs Harbor, is 240 00:12:41,982 --> 00:12:45,262 Speaker 3: that they were and are linked. He, with the support 241 00:12:45,302 --> 00:12:48,222 Speaker 3: of Green's MP Sue Higginson, has called on the Premier, 242 00:12:48,262 --> 00:12:51,542 Speaker 3: Chris Mins to hold a special commission of inquiry that 243 00:12:51,622 --> 00:12:54,782 Speaker 3: has been rejected amid suggestions a new police task force 244 00:12:54,862 --> 00:12:59,222 Speaker 3: be set up to investigate the unsolved cases instead. According 245 00:12:59,222 --> 00:13:02,782 Speaker 3: to a Daily Telegraph investigation, there are sixty seven women 246 00:13:02,822 --> 00:13:05,302 Speaker 3: who've been murdered or who've gone missing in the area 247 00:13:05,382 --> 00:13:07,942 Speaker 3: over the last thirty years. They include a number of 248 00:13:07,942 --> 00:13:12,062 Speaker 3: disappearances around Newcastle in the nineteen seven. Jemma Bath is 249 00:13:12,142 --> 00:13:15,422 Speaker 3: Mumam's news editor and host of the true Crime Conversations 250 00:13:15,462 --> 00:13:18,582 Speaker 3: podcast Jemma, these cases go back as far as the 251 00:13:18,622 --> 00:13:21,102 Speaker 3: nineteen seventies. Can you give us a rundown of some 252 00:13:21,142 --> 00:13:23,342 Speaker 3: of those older cases that they think might be the 253 00:13:23,382 --> 00:13:24,502 Speaker 3: work of this serial killer? 254 00:13:24,982 --> 00:13:27,182 Speaker 1: Yeah, And so they kind of spread all the way 255 00:13:27,222 --> 00:13:29,182 Speaker 1: up the coast. We're talking from like Coffs Harbor to 256 00:13:29,542 --> 00:13:31,942 Speaker 1: after kind of the Gold Coast area, but there does 257 00:13:31,982 --> 00:13:35,702 Speaker 1: seem to be a concentration around Newcastle, which is one 258 00:13:35,742 --> 00:13:37,662 Speaker 1: of the biggest centers along that coast if you know 259 00:13:37,702 --> 00:13:41,462 Speaker 1: the area, and many of the disappearances or alleged murders 260 00:13:41,462 --> 00:13:44,062 Speaker 1: in that area are from the seventies. So we've got 261 00:13:44,102 --> 00:13:46,422 Speaker 1: eighteen year old Robin Hickey She was last seen at 262 00:13:46,422 --> 00:13:50,022 Speaker 1: a bus stop in April nineteen seventy nine. Eight months 263 00:13:50,062 --> 00:13:54,262 Speaker 1: after that, fourteen year old Amanda Robinson. She vanished while 264 00:13:54,262 --> 00:13:58,062 Speaker 1: walking home Miss Swansea. The following year, seventeen year old 265 00:13:58,062 --> 00:14:00,862 Speaker 1: Annie and eighteen year old Joy. They both went missing 266 00:14:00,862 --> 00:14:02,622 Speaker 1: after a night out at a club in the city. 267 00:14:02,702 --> 00:14:06,582 Speaker 1: So in Newcastle again, there's Norell Cox. She was twenty one. 268 00:14:06,862 --> 00:14:09,822 Speaker 1: She was last seen in Grafton in nineteen seventy seven. 269 00:14:10,422 --> 00:14:12,102 Speaker 1: He actually left a note for her family and it 270 00:14:12,142 --> 00:14:15,342 Speaker 1: read gone to Nosa to see Fae. Be back on Monday, 271 00:14:15,502 --> 00:14:18,422 Speaker 1: which is just heartbreaking, isn't it. A truck driver said 272 00:14:18,542 --> 00:14:21,222 Speaker 1: he picked her up and actually dropped her in Brunswick 273 00:14:21,262 --> 00:14:24,222 Speaker 1: Heads and she's never been seen again. Then we've got 274 00:14:24,422 --> 00:14:27,222 Speaker 1: Rose How she was eighteen, went missing in two thousand 275 00:14:27,222 --> 00:14:30,662 Speaker 1: and three about twenty five kilometers from Coffs Harbor. Susan 276 00:14:30,662 --> 00:14:33,502 Speaker 1: Marie Killy she was thirty three. She's been missing from 277 00:14:33,502 --> 00:14:36,262 Speaker 1: Bellingen on the Mid North Coast since nineteen eighty nine. 278 00:14:36,302 --> 00:14:38,982 Speaker 1: Her body's never been found. I could go on and 279 00:14:39,022 --> 00:14:42,502 Speaker 1: on and on. There's literally dozens of cases. 280 00:14:42,622 --> 00:14:45,582 Speaker 3: But general are we just seeing patterns when there might 281 00:14:45,622 --> 00:14:47,662 Speaker 3: not be one. You know how humans really like to 282 00:14:47,822 --> 00:14:51,502 Speaker 3: seek patterns and find those kind of things that look linked, 283 00:14:51,502 --> 00:14:53,902 Speaker 3: when really they might not be. Why are we thinking 284 00:14:53,902 --> 00:14:55,102 Speaker 3: that all of these have a connection. 285 00:14:55,662 --> 00:14:57,582 Speaker 1: When you think about the string that's linking all of 286 00:14:57,622 --> 00:15:00,862 Speaker 1: these cases women who have gone missing while hitchhiking or 287 00:15:00,902 --> 00:15:04,462 Speaker 1: walking or traveling to another place. That's obviously a very 288 00:15:04,502 --> 00:15:07,222 Speaker 1: broad term, but I don't think that doesn't mean it's 289 00:15:07,222 --> 00:15:09,822 Speaker 1: not a pattern, particularly when you consider the fact that 290 00:15:10,462 --> 00:15:13,982 Speaker 1: when you compare how many women have gone missing along 291 00:15:14,022 --> 00:15:16,782 Speaker 1: the stretch of the New South Wales coastline, you just 292 00:15:16,822 --> 00:15:20,182 Speaker 1: don't see that kind of concentration of missing and murdered 293 00:15:20,222 --> 00:15:23,222 Speaker 1: women anywhere else in the country anywhere for that kind 294 00:15:23,262 --> 00:15:28,542 Speaker 1: of population geography, that span of time. To give you 295 00:15:28,542 --> 00:15:30,822 Speaker 1: an example, in the whole of Tasmania, there's less than 296 00:15:30,902 --> 00:15:35,022 Speaker 1: ten cases, and we're talking over sixty in this one area. 297 00:15:35,822 --> 00:15:38,182 Speaker 3: Why is this only being discussed now though we mentioned 298 00:15:38,222 --> 00:15:40,582 Speaker 3: some of these cases date back more than thirty years. 299 00:15:40,942 --> 00:15:46,382 Speaker 1: Why now because technology, forensics, investigative techniques, they've come so 300 00:15:47,222 --> 00:15:49,502 Speaker 1: far in the last few years alone. I mean, we're 301 00:15:49,582 --> 00:15:52,302 Speaker 1: learning new things every day. A lot of these cases 302 00:15:52,662 --> 00:15:57,262 Speaker 1: weren't thoroughly investigated or properly investigated at the time, sometimes 303 00:15:57,262 --> 00:16:00,302 Speaker 1: because they just didn't have the resources or the technology 304 00:16:00,342 --> 00:16:03,062 Speaker 1: to do so. I mean, we're seeing so many cold 305 00:16:03,102 --> 00:16:06,262 Speaker 1: cases being solved. One that comes to mind recently is 306 00:16:06,302 --> 00:16:08,782 Speaker 1: the Easy Street murders in Melbourne that was from nineteen 307 00:16:08,862 --> 00:16:12,462 Speaker 1: seventy seven, and that is a really highly publicized case. 308 00:16:12,742 --> 00:16:15,182 Speaker 1: You know, everyone in Melbourne knows that story. The two 309 00:16:15,302 --> 00:16:17,702 Speaker 1: sus that were murdered in their house, a little boy 310 00:16:17,982 --> 00:16:20,662 Speaker 1: that was left crying in the middle of their dead bodies. 311 00:16:20,782 --> 00:16:24,382 Speaker 1: Horrific story. They've got a man in custody all these 312 00:16:24,462 --> 00:16:28,782 Speaker 1: years later, decades later because of DNA, Because of DNA 313 00:16:28,822 --> 00:16:31,902 Speaker 1: that is now able to be traced and tracked back 314 00:16:31,942 --> 00:16:34,862 Speaker 1: to people all these decades later. So I think the 315 00:16:34,902 --> 00:16:37,222 Speaker 1: reason that we're talking about it now is because some 316 00:16:37,262 --> 00:16:40,822 Speaker 1: of these cases need to be reinvestigated with fresh twenty 317 00:16:40,862 --> 00:16:43,182 Speaker 1: twenty four eyes, because you never know what you're going 318 00:16:43,222 --> 00:16:44,902 Speaker 1: to find. You're never going to know what we're going 319 00:16:44,982 --> 00:16:47,622 Speaker 1: to be able to solve with everything that's at our fingertips. 320 00:16:47,702 --> 00:16:50,502 Speaker 1: And we also know so much more about serial offenders 321 00:16:50,542 --> 00:16:52,542 Speaker 1: now than we did back then. We've just got so 322 00:16:52,662 --> 00:16:55,662 Speaker 1: much more knowledge in the police force, so we definitely 323 00:16:55,742 --> 00:16:57,142 Speaker 1: need to go back. We need to go back and 324 00:16:57,142 --> 00:16:58,702 Speaker 1: look at these cases with fresh eyes. 325 00:16:59,262 --> 00:17:01,902 Speaker 3: Well, speaking of the police force, obviously these are cold 326 00:17:01,942 --> 00:17:04,702 Speaker 3: cases and cold cases are never officially closed. But as 327 00:17:04,742 --> 00:17:07,382 Speaker 3: you mentioned, they might not be being investigated to the 328 00:17:07,422 --> 00:17:10,342 Speaker 3: extent that we would hope or that we would prove 329 00:17:10,742 --> 00:17:13,702 Speaker 3: that they are investigated, especially if they're beyond thirty years old. 330 00:17:14,062 --> 00:17:16,422 Speaker 3: But obviously New South Wales police know more than any 331 00:17:16,462 --> 00:17:18,222 Speaker 3: of us about all of these cases. What have they 332 00:17:18,262 --> 00:17:21,182 Speaker 3: said about this alleged linking of all of them. 333 00:17:21,662 --> 00:17:24,742 Speaker 1: They have released a statement, it's not as exciting as 334 00:17:24,742 --> 00:17:27,782 Speaker 1: you might expect. It says there is no evidence to 335 00:17:27,822 --> 00:17:31,782 Speaker 1: indicate a common offender was responsible for the disappearance. They've 336 00:17:31,782 --> 00:17:34,182 Speaker 1: said that the matters remain under investigation by the State 337 00:17:34,222 --> 00:17:37,822 Speaker 1: Crime Commands, Homicide Squad, Unsolved Homicide Team that's a mouthful, 338 00:17:38,182 --> 00:17:41,782 Speaker 1: and the Missing Person Registry as part of recent recommendations 339 00:17:41,782 --> 00:17:44,182 Speaker 1: that were handed down by a Special Commission of Inquiry. 340 00:17:44,542 --> 00:17:48,222 Speaker 1: So they're reviewing all unsolved cases every two years, which 341 00:17:48,262 --> 00:17:50,742 Speaker 1: is amazing. It does mean each of these cases at 342 00:17:50,742 --> 00:17:53,862 Speaker 1: getting fresh eyes, but there are so many cases, so 343 00:17:53,902 --> 00:17:56,062 Speaker 1: we've just got a hope that they're getting the attention 344 00:17:56,142 --> 00:17:56,822 Speaker 1: that they deserve. 345 00:17:58,662 --> 00:18:01,062 Speaker 3: We don't want to alarm people, but we do want 346 00:18:01,102 --> 00:18:03,182 Speaker 3: to arm them. So if you find yourself along the 347 00:18:03,222 --> 00:18:06,222 Speaker 3: New South Wales northern coast, please be careful and be 348 00:18:06,302 --> 00:18:09,902 Speaker 3: aware of your surroundings. Laura says she wants women to know, though, 349 00:18:09,942 --> 00:18:13,142 Speaker 3: that they're experiences aren't just fine, and to ignore the 350 00:18:13,182 --> 00:18:15,062 Speaker 3: gas lighting that comes with reporting them. 351 00:18:15,462 --> 00:18:17,742 Speaker 5: I've noticed people were more likely to come to me 352 00:18:18,022 --> 00:18:20,862 Speaker 5: than they were to call crime stoppers. And that is 353 00:18:21,182 --> 00:18:25,382 Speaker 5: us systematically as women, being taught that, oh, it's probably nothing. 354 00:18:25,902 --> 00:18:30,302 Speaker 5: You're being over dramatic, you're overreacting, you're being hysterical. And 355 00:18:30,382 --> 00:18:33,902 Speaker 5: so even with me with the incident in two thousand 356 00:18:33,942 --> 00:18:36,582 Speaker 5: and eight, I played it down to well, he let 357 00:18:36,662 --> 00:18:40,262 Speaker 5: me out of the band, so he couldn't be well, 358 00:18:40,582 --> 00:18:42,582 Speaker 5: I've a mala led a lot of people out of 359 00:18:42,622 --> 00:18:46,182 Speaker 5: his car too, So we kind of gaslight ourselves, and 360 00:18:46,222 --> 00:18:48,782 Speaker 5: we also go to people who were meant to help 361 00:18:48,862 --> 00:18:51,702 Speaker 5: us that also gas light us and make us feel 362 00:18:51,742 --> 00:18:53,902 Speaker 5: like we're being idiots. And so I think that that 363 00:18:53,982 --> 00:18:55,582 Speaker 5: needs to change. I think that there needs to be 364 00:18:55,662 --> 00:18:58,222 Speaker 5: a safe space to be able to discuss these issues 365 00:18:58,222 --> 00:19:01,662 Speaker 5: and what I wanted to achieve. Often we hear these 366 00:19:01,662 --> 00:19:05,382 Speaker 5: different separate stories, but this is hundreds of women and 367 00:19:05,502 --> 00:19:08,382 Speaker 5: hundreds of close goals that you're seeing in these comments sections, 368 00:19:08,382 --> 00:19:11,542 Speaker 5: And maybe when you see that volume altogether, you start 369 00:19:11,582 --> 00:19:15,222 Speaker 5: to realize, Okay, this is a really big issue. Can 370 00:19:15,262 --> 00:19:18,182 Speaker 5: we get it now? Like we need to do something 371 00:19:18,182 --> 00:19:20,462 Speaker 5: about this. Women aren't feeling safe. 372 00:19:21,782 --> 00:19:23,542 Speaker 3: Thanks for taking the time to feed your mind with 373 00:19:23,622 --> 00:19:26,342 Speaker 3: us today. The quickie is produced by me Claire Murphy 374 00:19:26,382 --> 00:19:29,742 Speaker 3: and our executive producer Taylor Strano, with audio production by 375 00:19:29,782 --> 00:19:30,582 Speaker 3: Teagan Sadler.