WEBVTT - EXCLUSIVE: Naomi Watts Is Done With Secrets And Shame 0:00:10.365 --> 0:00:15.005 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mama Maya acknowledges 0:00:15.045 --> 0:00:17.645 the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast 0:00:17.765 --> 0:00:18.525 is recorded on. 0:00:18.885 --> 0:00:20.685 I think I just got to the point where I 0:00:20.765 --> 0:00:24.565 was the burden was too heavy. I was carrying around 0:00:24.565 --> 0:00:27.845 this secret I wanted to feel my best self, and 0:00:28.845 --> 0:00:29.965 it just it wasn't. 0:00:30.205 --> 0:00:30.965 It wasn't a. 0:00:30.845 --> 0:00:35.725 Great feeling, and I think the time spent carrying that around, 0:00:36.165 --> 0:00:37.725 you know. I think it wasn't until I was in 0:00:37.725 --> 0:00:39.765 my late forties where I was like, I'm just going 0:00:39.845 --> 0:00:40.405 to own this. 0:00:48.645 --> 0:00:51.125 For MoMA Mia, You're listening to no filter and I'm 0:00:51.165 --> 0:00:54.765 Meya Friedman. Here's something that I've noticed about famous people 0:00:54.765 --> 0:00:58.845 in Hollywood, particularly women. There's a difference between being a 0:00:58.885 --> 0:01:04.525 celebrity and being an actor. Kate Blenchett actor, Jennifer Anniston celebrity, 0:01:04.845 --> 0:01:11.965 Emma Stone actor, Angelina Jolie celebrity Toni Collett actor, Lively, celebrity, 0:01:12.525 --> 0:01:15.365 Meryl Street actor. It's quite a fun game to play, 0:01:16.005 --> 0:01:19.365 and it's not about success or talent, because being a 0:01:19.405 --> 0:01:22.725 celebrity is absolutely not a dis That's certainly not the 0:01:22.805 --> 0:01:25.285 lens through which I'm looking when I talk about this. 0:01:25.765 --> 0:01:29.445 Celebrities can win Oscars too, and they do. But I 0:01:29.445 --> 0:01:33.205 think there's a real difference because with celebrities, we know 0:01:33.285 --> 0:01:37.085 a lot about their lives, their relationships and their exes 0:01:37.245 --> 0:01:40.725 and their kids if they have them, their bodies, or 0:01:40.765 --> 0:01:44.445 their style, or their co stars or opinions, or maybe 0:01:44.445 --> 0:01:48.205 the causes they believe in, and oftentimes we probably know 0:01:48.325 --> 0:01:51.445 more about all of those things than we do about 0:01:51.445 --> 0:01:54.565 their work. But with actors, we draw a bit of 0:01:54.565 --> 0:01:57.325 a blank about their personal lives because they tend to 0:01:57.365 --> 0:02:00.685 disappear into their work and the characters that they play, 0:02:00.685 --> 0:02:04.125 and they don't give a lot of themselves publicly, whether 0:02:04.165 --> 0:02:08.365 it's in interviews or on social and that's not by accident. 0:02:09.045 --> 0:02:12.205 Gues has been an actor for most of her life, 0:02:12.725 --> 0:02:15.565 almost forty years, since her late teens when she was 0:02:15.605 --> 0:02:18.965 on Home and Away and Hey Dad, all the way 0:02:19.005 --> 0:02:19.605 through to. 0:02:19.645 --> 0:02:22.565 More recently, when she has been nominated. 0:02:22.085 --> 0:02:25.645 For one hundred acting awards and won forty six of them. 0:02:25.685 --> 0:02:28.525 She's one of the most famous actors of her generation, 0:02:29.125 --> 0:02:32.525 but I wouldn't call her a celebrity. Naomi Watts is 0:02:32.605 --> 0:02:35.165 fifty six now, and the reason that. 0:02:35.125 --> 0:02:36.645 I would put her in the. 0:02:36.605 --> 0:02:40.365 Actor category is because even though she was actually with 0:02:40.645 --> 0:02:44.165 another very famous actor, Liev Schreider, and they have two 0:02:44.245 --> 0:02:47.925 kids together, and the fact that one of her closest 0:02:47.925 --> 0:02:49.365 friends is Nicole Kidman. 0:02:50.125 --> 0:02:51.525 Naomi has always been. 0:02:51.445 --> 0:02:54.685 Very private about her off screen life. She's let her 0:02:54.725 --> 0:02:58.645 work very much do the talking. You probably didn't even 0:02:58.685 --> 0:03:03.125 know that she recently married actor Billy Crutter, and you 0:03:03.165 --> 0:03:05.925 probably didn't even know, even though they're both huge deals 0:03:05.965 --> 0:03:09.125 in Hollywood, again, because she's more of an actor than 0:03:09.125 --> 0:03:11.965 she is a celebrity now. A couple of years ago, 0:03:12.285 --> 0:03:16.085 something pretty interesting happened. I follow Naomi on socials because 0:03:16.325 --> 0:03:18.725 I think she's an incredible actor, and also we have 0:03:18.965 --> 0:03:22.205 some friends in common, and I noticed that she was 0:03:22.245 --> 0:03:24.245 starting to venture more into the. 0:03:24.245 --> 0:03:26.445 Public eye as herself. 0:03:27.365 --> 0:03:29.645 She was one of the first famous women to talk 0:03:29.725 --> 0:03:33.885 openly on social media no less about menopause. She experienced 0:03:33.885 --> 0:03:36.325 it far earlier than most women, and it caused her 0:03:36.365 --> 0:03:40.605 a huge amount of shame, something that she's only just 0:03:40.725 --> 0:03:45.205 recently decided to reject. She's written a book. It's called 0:03:45.485 --> 0:03:48.605 Dare I Say It? Everything I wish I'd known about menopause, 0:03:49.005 --> 0:03:52.205 and it is so good. It's partly a memoir because 0:03:52.205 --> 0:03:56.405 we learn a lot about Naomi's own experiences and her life. 0:03:56.445 --> 0:03:58.365 But it's also a feel guide because. 0:03:58.165 --> 0:04:02.325 It's packed with really useful information from experts for any 0:04:02.365 --> 0:04:03.565 woman who is in this. 0:04:03.525 --> 0:04:06.405 Life stage or about to hit this life stage. 0:04:06.965 --> 0:04:09.565 The thing you're about to discover about Naomi and I 0:04:09.565 --> 0:04:11.285 promise I'll get to the interview in a second. 0:04:11.845 --> 0:04:17.405 She is stupidly normal, like ridiculously normal. She doesn't seem 0:04:17.965 --> 0:04:18.805 like a celebrity. 0:04:19.525 --> 0:04:22.445 So maybe she's kind of inventing a new category because 0:04:22.525 --> 0:04:25.965 she's kicking these huge career goals as an actor. Maybe 0:04:25.965 --> 0:04:29.845 you saw her in Capodi Versus the Swans and the 0:04:29.925 --> 0:04:31.845 Watcher and a whole lot of stuff. She's having this 0:04:32.005 --> 0:04:34.885 major resurgence in her career. Everybody wants to work with her. 0:04:35.445 --> 0:04:37.645 The book is incredible while at the same time being 0:04:37.685 --> 0:04:41.285 really candid. So she's this incredible actor who only seems 0:04:41.285 --> 0:04:44.645 to be getting more and more accomplished and skilled at 0:04:44.645 --> 0:04:48.165 her craft, while at the same time she started to 0:04:48.205 --> 0:04:51.765 become really candid about her life publicly, and that is new. 0:04:52.725 --> 0:04:57.325 I started this conversation with Naomi discussing what she calls 0:04:57.565 --> 0:05:00.125 the bookends of shame in her life, which I thought 0:05:00.125 --> 0:05:03.645 was such an interesting way to talk about it, the 0:05:03.685 --> 0:05:06.805 fact that she started her period really late and the 0:05:06.845 --> 0:05:10.325 fact that she started perimenopause really early. 0:05:10.965 --> 0:05:13.605 Enjoy this delightful conversation with Naomi Watts. 0:05:15.245 --> 0:05:17.605 Can you tell me what you were ashamed of when 0:05:17.645 --> 0:05:20.805 you found out at thirty six that you were going 0:05:20.845 --> 0:05:21.845 into early menopause. 0:05:23.605 --> 0:05:27.845 Well, I was ashamed that I was, you know, thinking 0:05:27.885 --> 0:05:30.965 this was the end of everything, and you know, not 0:05:31.045 --> 0:05:35.125 just my fertility, my career, my use as a woman, 0:05:35.285 --> 0:05:38.725 which is absurd and I dig into that in the 0:05:38.725 --> 0:05:43.685 book as well, but this societal imprint of your worth 0:05:43.765 --> 0:05:47.605 is wrapped up in your fertility, and when that reproductive 0:05:47.645 --> 0:05:52.725 system breaks down, you're I mean, as doctor Gunter her 0:05:52.805 --> 0:05:55.765 quote is just so wonderful. You're just chucked in the pile, 0:05:56.525 --> 0:05:57.365 like that's. 0:05:57.205 --> 0:05:58.005 It, You're done. 0:05:58.085 --> 0:05:59.165 What's the point of view? 0:05:59.445 --> 0:06:01.725 Yeah, my way of saying is, oh am, I supposed 0:06:01.765 --> 0:06:03.725 to go to the corner and pull out my knitting 0:06:03.885 --> 0:06:07.885 needles and just rock on the chair. It really felt 0:06:08.285 --> 0:06:12.085 scary and that that created a lot of shame knowing 0:06:12.245 --> 0:06:15.125 and I think this speaks to the beginning book end. 0:06:15.925 --> 0:06:18.285 You just want to be like everyone else, You just 0:06:18.405 --> 0:06:18.765 want to. 0:06:18.725 --> 0:06:22.125 Be on the same page at the same time and 0:06:22.205 --> 0:06:25.325 not sort of go too far from the crowd that 0:06:25.365 --> 0:06:29.885 you're moving within. And certainly that's how it started with me, 0:06:30.365 --> 0:06:33.405 when everyone was having their period in. 0:06:33.365 --> 0:06:36.605 Their thirteen fourteen year old. 0:06:36.485 --> 0:06:40.365 Years and I was nowhere, and I went so far 0:06:40.685 --> 0:06:44.125 as to make myself be a part of that group 0:06:44.205 --> 0:06:47.845 so I could keep up with the Joneses and literally 0:06:47.925 --> 0:06:52.925 faked having a period and stuffed tampon up there, my 0:06:53.045 --> 0:07:00.565 poor little badge, and just so my boarding school friends 0:07:00.725 --> 0:07:04.325 would see a string and think that I was grown 0:07:04.405 --> 0:07:07.085 up too. So the minute I hit men well or 0:07:07.245 --> 0:07:11.605 started feeling symptoms and sort of was slowly testing the 0:07:11.645 --> 0:07:13.765 waters with some of my closest friends, and it was 0:07:13.805 --> 0:07:15.285 all met with Oh, don't. 0:07:15.045 --> 0:07:17.005 Be silly, there's no way. 0:07:17.125 --> 0:07:18.205 You're way too young. 0:07:18.325 --> 0:07:23.045 That's just ridiculous, you know, which instantly told me, Oh, 0:07:23.805 --> 0:07:27.965 this is not happening for anyone, and so you retreat, 0:07:28.565 --> 0:07:30.885 and then the shame begins. 0:07:31.085 --> 0:07:35.445 So many of us, well for me, my menopause and 0:07:35.485 --> 0:07:38.605 my pery symptoms and all of the emotions and physical 0:07:38.645 --> 0:07:42.085 symptoms that came with it. Happened when I was in 0:07:42.125 --> 0:07:44.645 a really good place in my career. I'd achieved a 0:07:44.685 --> 0:07:49.245 lot and I'd had three children. For you, it came 0:07:49.285 --> 0:07:53.005 in a very different place, and it happened early for you. 0:07:53.405 --> 0:07:56.485 A lot of women who have cancer treatment or medical 0:07:56.525 --> 0:08:01.805 issues will often be thrust early into menopause and might 0:08:01.885 --> 0:08:04.765 grapple with similar things. You hadn't had your children yet, 0:08:05.245 --> 0:08:09.485 and your career was You weren't yet, Naomi Watts in 0:08:09.605 --> 0:08:10.885 quote marks you were. 0:08:11.085 --> 0:08:12.685 Had you already done my Holland Drive? 0:08:13.405 --> 0:08:16.685 I had, and I was Naomi. 0:08:16.325 --> 0:08:19.725 Watts in as ridiculous as it sounds when you were 0:08:19.725 --> 0:08:23.205 saying it yourself, I had done not only my Holand Drive, 0:08:23.285 --> 0:08:24.845 but King Kong and The Ring. 0:08:25.365 --> 0:08:28.045 Okay, so you were already, Naomi Watts. 0:08:29.645 --> 0:08:33.525 I was playing an ngenoee in King Kong, and. 0:08:33.885 --> 0:08:36.685 Just at the tail end of that I, in fact, 0:08:36.685 --> 0:08:39.525 I think I went to New Zealand to do some 0:08:39.605 --> 0:08:43.645 pickups reshoots, and I'd already met my partner, who I 0:08:43.725 --> 0:08:47.085 knew we were trying to start a family, but hadn't 0:08:47.125 --> 0:08:50.605 succeeded at that point. And that's when an older friend 0:08:50.645 --> 0:08:52.325 of mine said, well, you might want to go and 0:08:52.365 --> 0:08:54.525 get your blood work taken. I was like, really why, 0:08:55.245 --> 0:08:57.605 and she said, just check your numbers. They can tell 0:08:57.965 --> 0:09:00.965 with hormones if that's having anything to do with you 0:09:01.165 --> 0:09:04.405 not succeeding it getting pregnant. So I said, okay, fine, 0:09:05.405 --> 0:09:09.245 went to my guynecologist, and then he called me back 0:09:09.485 --> 0:09:12.805 and he said, well, you know, what other symptoms have 0:09:12.885 --> 0:09:15.565 you been having, because these numbers suggest that you're close 0:09:15.605 --> 0:09:16.365 to menopause. 0:09:17.285 --> 0:09:19.845 And the word perry was not. 0:09:20.085 --> 0:09:21.125 No, it was not a thing. 0:09:21.925 --> 0:09:22.805 It wasn't a thing. 0:09:23.165 --> 0:09:25.925 And I mean it might have been known within the 0:09:26.125 --> 0:09:28.725 medical community, but it certainly wasn't a word I was 0:09:28.765 --> 0:09:33.325 familiar with right up until I was well past it. 0:09:33.405 --> 0:09:36.605 And that somehow feels like a much gentler word. Yeah, 0:09:36.645 --> 0:09:37.045 it does. 0:09:37.485 --> 0:09:40.645 It feels like a sort of an off ramp. 0:09:41.285 --> 0:09:47.245 Yes, yes, yeah, close to menopause did not sound like 0:09:47.325 --> 0:09:50.805 that sounded like a dive into the deep end, and 0:09:51.645 --> 0:09:54.765 especially at the precipice of wanting to start a family. 0:09:55.485 --> 0:09:55.925 So yeah. 0:09:56.165 --> 0:09:58.485 He asked me to if I'd gone through any symptoms, 0:09:58.485 --> 0:09:59.285 and I said. 0:09:59.205 --> 0:10:00.645 Well, night sweats. 0:10:00.885 --> 0:10:03.565 And I've been ticking those boxes when you have to 0:10:03.725 --> 0:10:08.085 do those like litany of questions night sweats for years. 0:10:08.565 --> 0:10:11.685 And I had chalked it up to our analogy to 0:10:11.725 --> 0:10:16.525 a certain food or maybe that extra glass of wine 0:10:16.805 --> 0:10:20.525 or you know, something that my body just wasn't tolerating. 0:10:20.965 --> 0:10:25.485 And then I talked about my periods being a little 0:10:25.525 --> 0:10:30.725 closer together, much lighter, much shorter, and he said, yeah, well, 0:10:31.485 --> 0:10:34.045 what about your mom? When did she go into metopause? 0:10:34.085 --> 0:10:39.125 And I said, oh shit, she went in at forty five. 0:10:39.445 --> 0:10:42.365 That's all I know. I didn't know anything else. 0:10:42.525 --> 0:10:45.005 I didn't know that she'd had a multitude of symptoms 0:10:45.645 --> 0:10:49.645 that she wasn't feeling great, and I didn't know that 0:10:49.725 --> 0:10:53.205 this had, you know, taken place over a passage of time. 0:10:53.285 --> 0:10:56.685 I just knew that she had stopped her periods at 0:10:56.685 --> 0:11:00.245 forty five, and I was thirty six at the time, 0:11:00.525 --> 0:11:03.045 so I still felt a long way away from that. 0:11:03.445 --> 0:11:06.125 And yeah, and I think he said, your numbers to 0:11:06.365 --> 0:11:11.085 get pregnant, you have to fall under sort of fifteen, 0:11:11.165 --> 0:11:14.445 and I was already in the high teens. And my 0:11:14.605 --> 0:11:17.485 blood tests after that were just going up and up. 0:11:18.045 --> 0:11:21.445 But yeah, there's no one specific test to say no, 0:11:21.525 --> 0:11:23.725 you are in menopause as well as you know. 0:11:24.405 --> 0:11:26.085 The one main. 0:11:26.285 --> 0:11:30.085 Signifier, I suppose is that you haven't had a menstruation 0:11:30.245 --> 0:11:31.125 for a full year. 0:11:31.725 --> 0:11:33.725 And then you get your menopause. 0:11:33.245 --> 0:11:40.045 Birthday, yepee and then from there on, your basically post 0:11:40.085 --> 0:11:42.645 menopausal or a menopausal. 0:11:43.005 --> 0:11:46.325 You decided to call your book dare I say it? 0:11:46.405 --> 0:11:49.325 And on the cover is a picture of you with 0:11:49.405 --> 0:11:52.165 a megaphone and fires coming. 0:11:51.885 --> 0:11:52.845 Out of it. 0:11:53.925 --> 0:12:00.565 That is not the kind of soft focused memoir that 0:12:00.605 --> 0:12:06.805 we would expect from someone as famous as you, or 0:12:06.885 --> 0:12:08.845 from a from. 0:12:08.205 --> 0:12:11.045 Any kind of woman. Really, and dare I say it? 0:12:11.045 --> 0:12:12.605 I want to ask about that because that does that 0:12:12.645 --> 0:12:15.725 speak to shame? Does it speak to anger? What's that about? 0:12:15.765 --> 0:12:16.885 Tell me about that decision. 0:12:16.965 --> 0:12:19.565 Yeah, well, first of all, I want to say I 0:12:19.605 --> 0:12:21.605 never saw it as a memoir per se. 0:12:21.805 --> 0:12:25.245 But it's interesting you say that. So do you think 0:12:25.285 --> 0:12:26.205 that it as a memoir? 0:12:26.485 --> 0:12:29.245 Yeah, because when someone asked me, when I learned what 0:12:29.285 --> 0:12:32.485 a memoir was like an autobiography is like your whole life. 0:12:32.605 --> 0:12:35.845 A memoir might be a theme in your life or 0:12:35.885 --> 0:12:38.005 a period of time in your life. 0:12:38.285 --> 0:12:40.525 And to me, this is about a theme in your life. 0:12:40.565 --> 0:12:42.845 And it's not just about your life. It's about your 0:12:42.885 --> 0:12:44.725 life through the lens of menopause. 0:12:45.205 --> 0:12:51.285 But it's it's it's not just a like a textbook. 0:12:51.445 --> 0:12:54.005 There's a lot of personal stuff. You brought a lot 0:12:54.045 --> 0:12:56.565 of yourself to this book, I. 0:12:56.445 --> 0:12:58.085 Had to bring myself to it. 0:12:58.565 --> 0:13:01.005 You can't do this in half measure, and otherwise I 0:13:01.125 --> 0:13:03.405 really would have been to me, it would have been 0:13:03.405 --> 0:13:07.765 strictly a memoir where I'm just telling endless stories about myself. 0:13:07.805 --> 0:13:09.045 But it's shared. 0:13:09.045 --> 0:13:13.365 The focus is shared with the expertise of doctors, with 0:13:13.645 --> 0:13:18.525 other friends of mine, friends of friends, their stories very useful. 0:13:19.565 --> 0:13:20.685 All well, thank you. 0:13:20.885 --> 0:13:24.685 Also, I mean, it's the book I wanted when I 0:13:24.805 --> 0:13:27.925 was going through that because the Internet was not even 0:13:28.005 --> 0:13:31.045 really active, I had no place to go. And when I, 0:13:31.125 --> 0:13:32.925 as I told you, when i'd go to friends and 0:13:32.965 --> 0:13:37.005 I felt the doors closed, I was like internalizing everything 0:13:37.045 --> 0:13:39.885 and then thinking I was losing my mind because I 0:13:39.885 --> 0:13:42.965 didn't have an outlet. So this is supposed to be 0:13:43.565 --> 0:13:46.765 a cozy conversation on account with your girlfriend. 0:13:47.285 --> 0:13:48.965 We talk about Mamma Maya. 0:13:49.125 --> 0:13:51.445 The three pillars of everything we do are help, heart, 0:13:51.485 --> 0:13:54.885 and human and this book is all three of those 0:13:54.925 --> 0:13:58.685 things for me. It's funny, it's incredibly helpful, and it 0:13:58.765 --> 0:14:00.885 has so much heart. And it's the book I needed 0:14:00.925 --> 0:14:05.005 too because it made me feel sort of seen, heard 0:14:05.045 --> 0:14:07.605 and understood, which is another thing that we talk about 0:14:07.605 --> 0:14:10.205 when you can meet unicating with women. 0:14:10.685 --> 0:14:13.085 But dare I say it? Tell me about that? 0:14:13.285 --> 0:14:14.125 So I love? 0:14:14.325 --> 0:14:18.045 I mean, as you know, choosing titles, names for anything 0:14:18.205 --> 0:14:19.565 is virtually impossible. 0:14:19.605 --> 0:14:21.605 Everything's taken, you know. 0:14:22.685 --> 0:14:26.965 I've had it that kind of difficulty with my company 0:14:26.965 --> 0:14:30.445 Stripes Beauty as well naming products, and it's just it 0:14:30.525 --> 0:14:33.125 takes a lot of effort. I've always been into wordplace 0:14:33.285 --> 0:14:36.685 and expressions and to speak. 0:14:36.405 --> 0:14:38.965 To your point about heart, humor and help. 0:14:39.445 --> 0:14:43.245 I want all of those things incorporated into every bit 0:14:43.325 --> 0:14:45.125 of messaging I'm trying to put across. 0:14:45.165 --> 0:14:49.845 And yes, I wanted it to feel bold. I did. 0:14:50.005 --> 0:14:51.365 Dare to say it? Why? 0:14:51.445 --> 0:14:54.805 Because there was a need And I'm sick of holding 0:14:54.845 --> 0:15:00.005 the secret and shame and you know, I feel like shit. 0:15:00.285 --> 0:15:05.245 And so the chances are every other woman who's lucky 0:15:05.325 --> 0:15:07.805 enough to be able to go through menopause to live 0:15:07.845 --> 0:15:11.005 that long is going feel some version of that. Some 0:15:11.125 --> 0:15:13.885 might sail through and don't need to, you know, have 0:15:14.005 --> 0:15:19.925 one single conversation, but it's just nice to know, you know, Hey, 0:15:20.005 --> 0:15:20.925 are you going through that? 0:15:21.525 --> 0:15:22.245 Yeah? Me too. 0:15:22.485 --> 0:15:26.245 I see it's tough. How about we talk about it. 0:15:26.325 --> 0:15:31.005 I wanted to create a conversation that helped women feel 0:15:31.325 --> 0:15:34.845 as you say, seen, and yes, the humor and the 0:15:34.965 --> 0:15:38.365 irreverence were all part of it because it's so much 0:15:38.405 --> 0:15:39.365 more palatable. 0:15:39.765 --> 0:15:42.165 It's not all doom and gloom, although. 0:15:41.885 --> 0:15:44.485 There is plenty of it, and I'm not going to 0:15:44.525 --> 0:15:48.245 shy away from it, but we can approach it with 0:15:48.325 --> 0:15:53.125 some humor. You know, tell these ridiculous, horrific stories and 0:15:53.165 --> 0:15:56.165 then you know, as you remove yourself from them, they 0:15:56.165 --> 0:15:58.765 can be funny. And you got through it, and through 0:15:58.805 --> 0:16:02.565 that you learned something, you survived, and you can share 0:16:02.565 --> 0:16:05.925 it with your friend, so it's a little less echy 0:16:06.005 --> 0:16:06.365 for them. 0:16:06.685 --> 0:16:09.325 And so that was sort of the point of the book. 0:16:09.445 --> 0:16:11.525 And the dare I say it was just it's an 0:16:11.525 --> 0:16:16.125 expression that my grandmother used all the time, and as 0:16:16.165 --> 0:16:19.085 you may know, she's the matriarch of my family and 0:16:19.485 --> 0:16:24.205 has left me with all of her values. And yeah, 0:16:24.325 --> 0:16:28.685 it just felt like it was bold, cheeky and fun. 0:16:28.845 --> 0:16:33.085 Yeah, I'm daring. I hope it doesn't feel too uncomfortable 0:16:33.085 --> 0:16:33.485 for you. 0:16:34.045 --> 0:16:36.525 It certainly was for me, and I'm guessing all of 0:16:36.525 --> 0:16:38.965 these other women that had to carry around the same 0:16:39.165 --> 0:16:40.005 kind of secrets. 0:16:40.245 --> 0:16:43.845 But let's help you tolerate it more. 0:16:47.685 --> 0:16:50.845 After this shortbreak, Naomi and I discuss what it's like 0:16:51.045 --> 0:16:53.965 to be a woman in her fifties in Hollywood and 0:16:54.005 --> 0:16:57.005 also how she met her husband, Billy craut Up. Stay 0:16:57.005 --> 0:17:06.325 with us, your experience is I mean, there are so 0:17:06.365 --> 0:17:12.125 many universal things about going through men, and some people 0:17:12.205 --> 0:17:15.205 might think, oh, well, she's a Hollywood star, she's one 0:17:15.245 --> 0:17:18.165 of the most famous women in the world. It would 0:17:18.165 --> 0:17:22.685 be different for her. And what was so funny about 0:17:22.725 --> 0:17:25.405 your book is that some of the examples and some 0:17:25.445 --> 0:17:28.245 of the ways it manifested for you were not like 0:17:28.285 --> 0:17:32.205 a regular person, like the forgetfulness and the story you 0:17:32.285 --> 0:17:34.725 tell about you were going to the Golden Globes and 0:17:34.725 --> 0:17:36.805 you were texting with a friend and you were just 0:17:37.245 --> 0:17:40.165 you missed the boarding call, so you missed your flight. 0:17:40.525 --> 0:17:43.325 You had to get on another flight, and you had to. 0:17:43.405 --> 0:17:44.205 Go the whole way. 0:17:44.325 --> 0:17:47.285 It was packed with your Golden Globes dress on your lap. 0:17:47.805 --> 0:17:50.925 Now that's probably not an anecdote that would happen to 0:17:51.245 --> 0:17:55.325 many other women, but we've all had that same sort 0:17:55.325 --> 0:17:56.045 of experience. 0:17:56.085 --> 0:17:59.285 It's like celebrities, they're just like us, right, But. 0:17:59.325 --> 0:18:03.925 You live in this microcosm of you know, like our 0:18:03.965 --> 0:18:05.165 culture on steroids. 0:18:05.165 --> 0:18:06.325 In terms of Hollywood and the. 0:18:06.325 --> 0:18:08.965 Way it judges women for getting older, and it would 0:18:08.965 --> 0:18:10.885 seem the outside that the worst thing you can do 0:18:10.925 --> 0:18:12.125 in Hollywood is get older. 0:18:13.445 --> 0:18:15.125 How did it play out for you? 0:18:16.405 --> 0:18:18.725 I mean, there's the private, the secret of it and 0:18:18.725 --> 0:18:20.405 the shame of it when you were going through it. 0:18:20.685 --> 0:18:24.045 But when you decided to speak out about it and 0:18:24.085 --> 0:18:27.165 be public about it and start a company and write 0:18:27.165 --> 0:18:32.365 this book, what were the considerations that you had to 0:18:32.405 --> 0:18:34.965 take into account and the people around you in terms 0:18:35.005 --> 0:18:36.645 of what impact it would have on your career. 0:18:37.885 --> 0:18:41.885 So in the I started late, as many of your 0:18:41.925 --> 0:18:45.805 listeners may know, not by choice. It just didn't turn 0:18:45.845 --> 0:18:48.645 out that I got going in my early twenties, Like 0:18:48.685 --> 0:18:53.805 lots of actors I tried, didn't didn't go so well. 0:18:53.965 --> 0:18:57.445 And not until David Lynch cast me in muholland Drive 0:18:58.325 --> 0:19:00.805 was I known within the industry. 0:19:00.845 --> 0:19:03.125 And then things kicked off pretty quickly after that. 0:19:03.965 --> 0:19:07.245 And I remember at the time an agent saying, well, 0:19:07.365 --> 0:19:09.085 it is all it's all going to dry up. 0:19:09.125 --> 0:19:17.285 For quite literally, yeah, but so you better put the 0:19:17.445 --> 0:19:21.405 pedal to the metal and just go like gangbusters working. 0:19:21.765 --> 0:19:24.765 So it's like, oh my god, and why why is 0:19:24.805 --> 0:19:25.285 it all over? 0:19:25.365 --> 0:19:25.845 What do you mean? 0:19:25.925 --> 0:19:29.405 And they said, well, you know, kind of what. 0:19:29.485 --> 0:19:35.805 Happens is you work until you're you know, unfuckable, and sorry, 0:19:35.845 --> 0:19:37.445 I don't know if you can swear. 0:19:37.725 --> 0:19:38.805 I've heard that a lot. 0:19:39.005 --> 0:19:41.965 I've heard that a lot, and that's part of metopause, right, 0:19:42.005 --> 0:19:44.645 it's like the official time when you're not fuckable anymore? 0:19:44.965 --> 0:19:48.125 Yeah, exactly, like and what does that mean? 0:19:48.565 --> 0:19:53.965 Oh okay, right, when you're not producing babies, you're not. 0:19:54.045 --> 0:19:56.165 Fuckable, they don't want to fuck you. 0:19:57.845 --> 0:20:02.765 Doesn't sound right or fair, you know, like, but it 0:20:02.845 --> 0:20:06.485 sat with me and I did work like crazy for 0:20:06.525 --> 0:20:09.885 that ten years, and I felt the loom and then 0:20:10.005 --> 0:20:13.245 you knows, as you know, I was then told I 0:20:13.285 --> 0:20:16.005 was going into early menopause, and so I was definitely 0:20:16.045 --> 0:20:18.605 not going to share that secret. I definitely wish I 0:20:18.685 --> 0:20:21.845 had a source, a resource of some kind for me 0:20:21.925 --> 0:20:25.525 to feel less alone, like a book, like the internet, 0:20:25.765 --> 0:20:27.685 like friends, doctors. 0:20:27.245 --> 0:20:28.805 Even to talk to. 0:20:29.045 --> 0:20:32.525 There was no one, and I think I just got 0:20:32.605 --> 0:20:35.925 to the point where I was the burden was too heavy. 0:20:36.045 --> 0:20:39.285 I was carrying around this secret. I wanted to feel 0:20:39.445 --> 0:20:43.365 my best self and it just it wasn't. It wasn't 0:20:43.405 --> 0:20:44.365 a great feeling. 0:20:44.445 --> 0:20:49.085 And I think the time spent carrying that around, you know. 0:20:49.085 --> 0:20:50.885 I think it wasn't until I was in my late 0:20:50.965 --> 0:20:53.045 forties where I was like, I'm just going to own this. 0:20:53.685 --> 0:20:56.005 And it was really a lot to do with meeting 0:20:56.565 --> 0:21:00.485 my husband he's now my husband, and being able to 0:21:00.525 --> 0:21:03.885 be brave enough with him. It was really then from 0:21:03.885 --> 0:21:08.885 there and he wasn't like, oh ick, that's not did. 0:21:08.965 --> 0:21:12.485 He didn't have any squeamishness around it. It was just like, oh, great, okay, 0:21:12.485 --> 0:21:16.885 what should we do. The minute I felt safe sharing 0:21:16.925 --> 0:21:21.965 it with my partner, I just kind of went surround 0:21:22.045 --> 0:21:25.285 sound and just and told everyone. And I'd already been 0:21:25.325 --> 0:21:29.765 in the beauty space before with under Beauty and learned 0:21:29.805 --> 0:21:33.325 a lot about skincare and stuff, and the skincare piece 0:21:33.365 --> 0:21:37.525 of it that was a massive issue the symptom for me, 0:21:38.005 --> 0:21:41.045 and I had no idea that that was related to menopause. 0:21:41.405 --> 0:21:46.765 I had raging, itchy, agitated red skin, and I was 0:21:46.805 --> 0:21:50.445 on TV hours and hours of the day and it 0:21:50.565 --> 0:21:55.205 was just really uncomfortable and nothing that a cortisone cream 0:21:55.245 --> 0:21:57.125 would fix more than a day or two. 0:21:57.285 --> 0:21:58.925 It was just I was in a loop. 0:21:59.805 --> 0:22:02.965 And it wasn't until I did deep research that some 0:22:03.005 --> 0:22:05.645