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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mama Maya acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on.

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Speaker 2: I think I just got to the point where I

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Speaker 2: was the burden was too heavy. I was carrying around

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Speaker 2: this secret I wanted to feel my best self, and

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Speaker 2: it just it wasn't.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't a.

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Speaker 2: Great feeling, and I think the time spent carrying that around,

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Speaker 2: you know. I think it wasn't until I was in

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Speaker 2: my late forties where I was like, I'm just going

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Speaker 2: to own this.

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Speaker 4: For MoMA Mia, You're listening to no filter and I'm

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Speaker 4: Meya Friedman. Here's something that I've noticed about famous people

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Speaker 4: in Hollywood, particularly women. There's a difference between being a

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Speaker 4: celebrity and being an actor. Kate Blenchett actor, Jennifer Anniston celebrity,

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Speaker 4: Emma Stone actor, Angelina Jolie celebrity Toni Collett actor, Lively, celebrity,

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Speaker 4: Meryl Street actor. It's quite a fun game to play,

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Speaker 4: and it's not about success or talent, because being a

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Speaker 4: celebrity is absolutely not a dis That's certainly not the

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Speaker 4: lens through which I'm looking when I talk about this.

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Speaker 4: Celebrities can win Oscars too, and they do. But I

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Speaker 4: think there's a real difference because with celebrities, we know

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Speaker 4: a lot about their lives, their relationships and their exes

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Speaker 4: and their kids if they have them, their bodies, or

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Speaker 4: their style, or their co stars or opinions, or maybe

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Speaker 4: the causes they believe in, and oftentimes we probably know

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Speaker 4: more about all of those things than we do about

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Speaker 4: their work. But with actors, we draw a bit of

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Speaker 4: a blank about their personal lives because they tend to

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Speaker 4: disappear into their work and the characters that they play,

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Speaker 4: and they don't give a lot of themselves publicly, whether

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Speaker 4: it's in interviews or on social and that's not by accident.

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Speaker 4: Gues has been an actor for most of her life,

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Speaker 4: almost forty years, since her late teens when she was

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Speaker 4: on Home and Away and Hey Dad, all the way

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Speaker 4: through to.

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Speaker 1: More recently, when she has been nominated.

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Speaker 4: For one hundred acting awards and won forty six of them.

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Speaker 4: She's one of the most famous actors of her generation,

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Speaker 4: but I wouldn't call her a celebrity. Naomi Watts is

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Speaker 4: fifty six now, and the reason that.

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Speaker 1: I would put her in the.

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Speaker 4: Actor category is because even though she was actually with

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Speaker 4: another very famous actor, Liev Schreider, and they have two

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Speaker 4: kids together, and the fact that one of her closest

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Speaker 4: friends is Nicole Kidman.

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Speaker 1: Naomi has always been.

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Speaker 4: Very private about her off screen life. She's let her

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Speaker 4: work very much do the talking. You probably didn't even

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Speaker 4: know that she recently married actor Billy Crutter, and you

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Speaker 4: probably didn't even know, even though they're both huge deals

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Speaker 4: in Hollywood, again, because she's more of an actor than

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Speaker 4: she is a celebrity now. A couple of years ago,

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Speaker 4: something pretty interesting happened. I follow Naomi on socials because

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Speaker 4: I think she's an incredible actor, and also we have

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Speaker 4: some friends in common, and I noticed that she was

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Speaker 4: starting to venture more into the.

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Speaker 1: Public eye as herself.

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Speaker 4: She was one of the first famous women to talk

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Speaker 4: openly on social media no less about menopause. She experienced

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Speaker 4: it far earlier than most women, and it caused her

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Speaker 4: a huge amount of shame, something that she's only just

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Speaker 4: recently decided to reject. She's written a book. It's called

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Speaker 4: Dare I Say It? Everything I wish I'd known about menopause,

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Speaker 4: and it is so good. It's partly a memoir because

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Speaker 4: we learn a lot about Naomi's own experiences and her life.

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Speaker 1: But it's also a feel guide because.

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Speaker 4: It's packed with really useful information from experts for any

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Speaker 4: woman who is in this.

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Speaker 1: Life stage or about to hit this life stage.

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Speaker 4: The thing you're about to discover about Naomi and I

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Speaker 4: promise I'll get to the interview in a second.

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Speaker 1: She is stupidly normal, like ridiculously normal. She doesn't seem

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Speaker 1: like a celebrity.

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Speaker 4: So maybe she's kind of inventing a new category because

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Speaker 4: she's kicking these huge career goals as an actor. Maybe

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Speaker 4: you saw her in Capodi Versus the Swans and the

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Speaker 4: Watcher and a whole lot of stuff. She's having this

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Speaker 4: major resurgence in her career. Everybody wants to work with her.

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Speaker 4: The book is incredible while at the same time being

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Speaker 4: really candid. So she's this incredible actor who only seems

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Speaker 4: to be getting more and more accomplished and skilled at

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Speaker 4: her craft, while at the same time she started to

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Speaker 4: become really candid about her life publicly, and that is new.

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Speaker 4: I started this conversation with Naomi discussing what she calls

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Speaker 4: the bookends of shame in her life, which I thought

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Speaker 4: was such an interesting way to talk about it, the

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Speaker 4: fact that she started her period really late and the

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Speaker 4: fact that she started perimenopause really early.

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Speaker 1: Enjoy this delightful conversation with Naomi Watts.

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Speaker 4: Can you tell me what you were ashamed of when

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Speaker 4: you found out at thirty six that you were going

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Speaker 4: into early menopause.

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Speaker 2: Well, I was ashamed that I was, you know, thinking

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Speaker 2: this was the end of everything, and you know, not

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Speaker 2: just my fertility, my career, my use as a woman,

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Speaker 2: which is absurd and I dig into that in the

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Speaker 2: book as well, but this societal imprint of your worth

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Speaker 2: is wrapped up in your fertility, and when that reproductive

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Speaker 2: system breaks down, you're I mean, as doctor Gunter her

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Speaker 2: quote is just so wonderful. You're just chucked in the pile,

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Speaker 2: like that's.

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Speaker 3: It, You're done.

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Speaker 1: What's the point of view?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, my way of saying is, oh am, I supposed

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Speaker 2: to go to the corner and pull out my knitting

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Speaker 2: needles and just rock on the chair. It really felt

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Speaker 2: scary and that that created a lot of shame knowing

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Speaker 2: and I think this speaks to the beginning book end.

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Speaker 3: You just want to be like everyone else, You just

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Speaker 3: want to.

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Speaker 2: Be on the same page at the same time and

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Speaker 2: not sort of go too far from the crowd that

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Speaker 2: you're moving within. And certainly that's how it started with me,

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Speaker 2: when everyone was having their period in.

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Speaker 3: Their thirteen fourteen year old.

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Speaker 2: Years and I was nowhere, and I went so far

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Speaker 2: as to make myself be a part of that group

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Speaker 2: so I could keep up with the Joneses and literally

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Speaker 2: faked having a period and stuffed tampon up there, my

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Speaker 2: poor little badge, and just so my boarding school friends

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Speaker 2: would see a string and think that I was grown

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Speaker 2: up too. So the minute I hit men well or

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Speaker 2: started feeling symptoms and sort of was slowly testing the

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Speaker 2: waters with some of my closest friends, and it was

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Speaker 2: all met with Oh, don't.

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Speaker 1: Be silly, there's no way.

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Speaker 3: You're way too young.

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Speaker 2: That's just ridiculous, you know, which instantly told me, Oh,

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Speaker 2: this is not happening for anyone, and so you retreat,

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Speaker 2: and then the shame begins.

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Speaker 4: So many of us, well for me, my menopause and

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Speaker 4: my pery symptoms and all of the emotions and physical

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Speaker 4: symptoms that came with it. Happened when I was in

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Speaker 4: a really good place in my career. I'd achieved a

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Speaker 4: lot and I'd had three children. For you, it came

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Speaker 4: in a very different place, and it happened early for you.

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Speaker 4: A lot of women who have cancer treatment or medical

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Speaker 4: issues will often be thrust early into menopause and might

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Speaker 4: grapple with similar things. You hadn't had your children yet,

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Speaker 4: and your career was You weren't yet, Naomi Watts in

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Speaker 4: quote marks you were.

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Speaker 1: Had you already done my Holland Drive?

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Speaker 3: I had, and I was Naomi.

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Speaker 2: Watts in as ridiculous as it sounds when you were

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Speaker 2: saying it yourself, I had done not only my Holand Drive,

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Speaker 2: but King Kong and The Ring.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you were already, Naomi Watts.

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Speaker 3: I was playing an ngenoee in King Kong, and.

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Speaker 2: Just at the tail end of that I, in fact,

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Speaker 2: I think I went to New Zealand to do some

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Speaker 2: pickups reshoots, and I'd already met my partner, who I

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Speaker 2: knew we were trying to start a family, but hadn't

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Speaker 2: succeeded at that point. And that's when an older friend

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Speaker 2: of mine said, well, you might want to go and

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Speaker 2: get your blood work taken. I was like, really why,

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Speaker 2: and she said, just check your numbers. They can tell

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Speaker 2: with hormones if that's having anything to do with you

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Speaker 2: not succeeding it getting pregnant. So I said, okay, fine,

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Speaker 2: went to my guynecologist, and then he called me back

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Speaker 2: and he said, well, you know, what other symptoms have

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Speaker 2: you been having, because these numbers suggest that you're close

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Speaker 2: to menopause.

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Speaker 3: And the word perry was not.

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Speaker 1: No, it was not a thing.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't a thing.

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Speaker 2: And I mean it might have been known within the

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Speaker 2: medical community, but it certainly wasn't a word I was

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Speaker 2: familiar with right up until I was well past it.

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Speaker 3: And that somehow feels like a much gentler word. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it does.

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Speaker 4: It feels like a sort of an off ramp.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yeah, close to menopause did not sound like

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Speaker 2: that sounded like a dive into the deep end, and

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Speaker 2: especially at the precipice of wanting to start a family.

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Speaker 1: So yeah.

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Speaker 2: He asked me to if I'd gone through any symptoms,

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Speaker 2: and I said.

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Speaker 3: Well, night sweats.

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Speaker 2: And I've been ticking those boxes when you have to

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Speaker 2: do those like litany of questions night sweats for years.

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Speaker 2: And I had chalked it up to our analogy to

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Speaker 2: a certain food or maybe that extra glass of wine

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Speaker 2: or you know, something that my body just wasn't tolerating.

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Speaker 2: And then I talked about my periods being a little

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Speaker 2: closer together, much lighter, much shorter, and he said, yeah, well,

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Speaker 2: what about your mom? When did she go into metopause?

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Speaker 2: And I said, oh shit, she went in at forty five.

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Speaker 3: That's all I know. I didn't know anything else.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know that she'd had a multitude of symptoms

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Speaker 2: that she wasn't feeling great, and I didn't know that

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Speaker 2: this had, you know, taken place over a passage of time.

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Speaker 2: I just knew that she had stopped her periods at

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Speaker 2: forty five, and I was thirty six at the time,

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Speaker 2: so I still felt a long way away from that.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, and I think he said, your numbers to

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Speaker 2: get pregnant, you have to fall under sort of fifteen,

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Speaker 2: and I was already in the high teens. And my

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Speaker 2: blood tests after that were just going up and up.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, there's no one specific test to say no,

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Speaker 2: you are in menopause as well as you know.

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Speaker 3: The one main.

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Speaker 2: Signifier, I suppose is that you haven't had a menstruation

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Speaker 2: for a full year.

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Speaker 3: And then you get your menopause.

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Speaker 2: Birthday, yepee and then from there on, your basically post

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Speaker 2: menopausal or a menopausal.

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Speaker 4: You decided to call your book dare I say it?

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Speaker 4: And on the cover is a picture of you with

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Speaker 4: a megaphone and fires coming.

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Speaker 1: Out of it.

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Speaker 4: That is not the kind of soft focused memoir that

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Speaker 4: we would expect from someone as famous as you, or

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Speaker 4: from a from.

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Speaker 1: Any kind of woman. Really, and dare I say it?

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Speaker 1: I want to ask about that because that does that

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Speaker 1: speak to shame? Does it speak to anger? What's that about?

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Speaker 1: Tell me about that decision.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, first of all, I want to say I

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Speaker 2: never saw it as a memoir per se.

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Speaker 3: But it's interesting you say that. So do you think

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Speaker 3: that it as a memoir?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because when someone asked me, when I learned what

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Speaker 4: a memoir was like an autobiography is like your whole life.

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Speaker 4: A memoir might be a theme in your life or

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Speaker 4: a period of time in your life.

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Speaker 1: And to me, this is about a theme in your life.

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Speaker 1: And it's not just about your life. It's about your

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Speaker 1: life through the lens of menopause.

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Speaker 4: But it's it's it's not just a like a textbook.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot of personal stuff. You brought a lot

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Speaker 4: of yourself to this book, I.

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Speaker 3: Had to bring myself to it.

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Speaker 2: You can't do this in half measure, and otherwise I

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Speaker 2: really would have been to me, it would have been

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Speaker 2: strictly a memoir where I'm just telling endless stories about myself.

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Speaker 3: But it's shared.

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Speaker 2: The focus is shared with the expertise of doctors, with

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Speaker 2: other friends of mine, friends of friends, their stories very useful.

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Speaker 3: All well, thank you.

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Speaker 2: Also, I mean, it's the book I wanted when I

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Speaker 2: was going through that because the Internet was not even

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Speaker 2: really active, I had no place to go. And when I,

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Speaker 2: as I told you, when i'd go to friends and

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Speaker 2: I felt the doors closed, I was like internalizing everything

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Speaker 2: and then thinking I was losing my mind because I

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Speaker 2: didn't have an outlet. So this is supposed to be

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Speaker 2: a cozy conversation on account with your girlfriend.

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Speaker 1: We talk about Mamma Maya.

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Speaker 4: The three pillars of everything we do are help, heart,

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Speaker 4: and human and this book is all three of those

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Speaker 4: things for me. It's funny, it's incredibly helpful, and it

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Speaker 4: has so much heart. And it's the book I needed

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Speaker 4: too because it made me feel sort of seen, heard

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Speaker 4: and understood, which is another thing that we talk about

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Speaker 4: when you can meet unicating with women.

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Speaker 1: But dare I say it? Tell me about that?

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Speaker 3: So I love?

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Speaker 2: I mean, as you know, choosing titles, names for anything

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Speaker 2: is virtually impossible.

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Speaker 3: Everything's taken, you know.

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Speaker 2: I've had it that kind of difficulty with my company

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Speaker 2: Stripes Beauty as well naming products, and it's just it

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Speaker 2: takes a lot of effort. I've always been into wordplace

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Speaker 2: and expressions and to speak.

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Speaker 3: To your point about heart, humor and help.

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Speaker 2: I want all of those things incorporated into every bit

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Speaker 2: of messaging I'm trying to put across.

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Speaker 3: And yes, I wanted it to feel bold. I did.

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Speaker 3: Dare to say it? Why?

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Speaker 2: Because there was a need And I'm sick of holding

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Speaker 2: the secret and shame and you know, I feel like shit.

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Speaker 2: And so the chances are every other woman who's lucky

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Speaker 2: enough to be able to go through menopause to live

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Speaker 2: that long is going feel some version of that. Some

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Speaker 2: might sail through and don't need to, you know, have

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Speaker 2: one single conversation, but it's just nice to know, you know, Hey,

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Speaker 2: are you going through that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Me too.

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Speaker 2: I see it's tough. How about we talk about it.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to create a conversation that helped women feel

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Speaker 2: as you say, seen, and yes, the humor and the

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Speaker 2: irreverence were all part of it because it's so much

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Speaker 2: more palatable.

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Speaker 3: It's not all doom and gloom, although.

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Speaker 2: There is plenty of it, and I'm not going to

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Speaker 2: shy away from it, but we can approach it with

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Speaker 2: some humor. You know, tell these ridiculous, horrific stories and

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Speaker 2: then you know, as you remove yourself from them, they

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Speaker 2: can be funny. And you got through it, and through

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Speaker 2: that you learned something, you survived, and you can share

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Speaker 2: it with your friend, so it's a little less echy

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Speaker 2: for them.

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Speaker 3: And so that was sort of the point of the book.

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Speaker 2: And the dare I say it was just it's an

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Speaker 2: expression that my grandmother used all the time, and as

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Speaker 2: you may know, she's the matriarch of my family and

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Speaker 2: has left me with all of her values. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: it just felt like it was bold, cheeky and fun.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm daring. I hope it doesn't feel too uncomfortable

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Speaker 3: for you.

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Speaker 2: It certainly was for me, and I'm guessing all of

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Speaker 2: these other women that had to carry around the same

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Speaker 2: kind of secrets.

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Speaker 3: But let's help you tolerate it more.

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Speaker 4: After this shortbreak, Naomi and I discuss what it's like

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Speaker 4: to be a woman in her fifties in Hollywood and

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Speaker 4: also how she met her husband, Billy craut Up. Stay

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Speaker 4: with us, your experience is I mean, there are so

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Speaker 4: many universal things about going through men, and some people

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Speaker 4: might think, oh, well, she's a Hollywood star, she's one

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Speaker 4: of the most famous women in the world. It would

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Speaker 4: be different for her. And what was so funny about

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Speaker 4: your book is that some of the examples and some

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Speaker 4: of the ways it manifested for you were not like

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Speaker 4: a regular person, like the forgetfulness and the story you

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Speaker 4: tell about you were going to the Golden Globes and

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Speaker 4: you were texting with a friend and you were just

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Speaker 4: you missed the boarding call, so you missed your flight.

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Speaker 4: You had to get on another flight, and you had to.

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Speaker 1: Go the whole way.

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Speaker 4: It was packed with your Golden Globes dress on your lap.

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Speaker 4: Now that's probably not an anecdote that would happen to

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Speaker 4: many other women, but we've all had that same sort

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Speaker 4: of experience.

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Speaker 1: It's like celebrities, they're just like us, right, But.

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Speaker 4: You live in this microcosm of you know, like our

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Speaker 4: culture on steroids.

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Speaker 1: In terms of Hollywood and the.

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Speaker 4: Way it judges women for getting older, and it would

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Speaker 4: seem the outside that the worst thing you can do

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Speaker 4: in Hollywood is get older.

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Speaker 1: How did it play out for you?

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Speaker 4: I mean, there's the private, the secret of it and

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Speaker 4: the shame of it when you were going through it.

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Speaker 4: But when you decided to speak out about it and

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Speaker 4: be public about it and start a company and write

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Speaker 4: this book, what were the considerations that you had to

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Speaker 4: take into account and the people around you in terms

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Speaker 4: of what impact it would have on your career.

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Speaker 2: So in the I started late, as many of your

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Speaker 2: listeners may know, not by choice. It just didn't turn

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Speaker 2: out that I got going in my early twenties, Like

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Speaker 2: lots of actors I tried, didn't didn't go so well.

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Speaker 2: And not until David Lynch cast me in muholland Drive

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Speaker 2: was I known within the industry.

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Speaker 3: And then things kicked off pretty quickly after that.

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Speaker 2: And I remember at the time an agent saying, well,

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Speaker 2: it is all it's all going to dry up.

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Speaker 5: For quite literally, yeah, but so you better put the

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Speaker 5: pedal to the metal and just go like gangbusters working.

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Speaker 3: So it's like, oh my god, and why why is

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Speaker 3: it all over?

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Speaker 1: What do you mean?

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Speaker 3: And they said, well, you know, kind of what.

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Speaker 2: Happens is you work until you're you know, unfuckable, and sorry,

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you can swear.

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Speaker 1: I've heard that a lot.

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Speaker 4: I've heard that a lot, and that's part of metopause, right,

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Speaker 4: it's like the official time when you're not fuckable anymore?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, like and what does that mean?

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, right, when you're not producing babies, you're not.

364
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Speaker 3: Fuckable, they don't want to fuck you.

365
00:19:57,845 --> 00:20:02,765
Speaker 2: Doesn't sound right or fair, you know, like, but it

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00:20:02,845 --> 00:20:06,485
Speaker 2: sat with me and I did work like crazy for

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Speaker 2: that ten years, and I felt the loom and then

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Speaker 2: you knows, as you know, I was then told I

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Speaker 2: was going into early menopause, and so I was definitely

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Speaker 2: not going to share that secret. I definitely wish I

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Speaker 2: had a source, a resource of some kind for me

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Speaker 2: to feel less alone, like a book, like the internet,

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Speaker 2: like friends, doctors.

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Speaker 3: Even to talk to.

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Speaker 2: There was no one, and I think I just got

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Speaker 2: to the point where I was the burden was too heavy.

377
00:20:36,045 --> 00:20:39,285
Speaker 2: I was carrying around this secret. I wanted to feel

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Speaker 2: my best self and it just it wasn't. It wasn't

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Speaker 2: a great feeling.

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Speaker 3: And I think the time spent carrying that around, you know.

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Speaker 2: I think it wasn't until I was in my late

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Speaker 2: forties where I was like, I'm just going to own this.

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Speaker 2: And it was really a lot to do with meeting

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Speaker 2: my husband he's now my husband, and being able to

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Speaker 2: be brave enough with him. It was really then from

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Speaker 2: there and he wasn't like, oh ick, that's not did.

387
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Speaker 2: He didn't have any squeamishness around it. It was just like, oh, great, okay,

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Speaker 2: what should we do. The minute I felt safe sharing

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Speaker 2: it with my partner, I just kind of went surround

390
00:21:22,045 --> 00:21:25,285
Speaker 2: sound and just and told everyone. And I'd already been

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Speaker 2: in the beauty space before with under Beauty and learned

392
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Speaker 2: a lot about skincare and stuff, and the skincare piece

393
00:21:33,365 --> 00:21:37,525
Speaker 2: of it that was a massive issue the symptom for me,

394
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Speaker 2: and I had no idea that that was related to menopause.

395
00:21:41,405 --> 00:21:46,765
Speaker 2: I had raging, itchy, agitated red skin, and I was

396
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Speaker 2: on TV hours and hours of the day and it

397
00:21:50,565 --> 00:21:55,205
Speaker 2: was just really uncomfortable and nothing that a cortisone cream

398
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Speaker 2: would fix more than a day or two.

399
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Speaker 3: It was just I was in a loop.

400
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Speaker 2: And it wasn't until I did deep research that some

401
00:22:03,005 --> 00:22:05,645
Speaker 2: of these ingredients in these products I'd been using before

402
00:22:05,685 --> 00:22:08,165
Speaker 2: were just now not going to work for me any longer.

403
00:22:08,285 --> 00:22:11,805
Speaker 2: They were too harsh to stripping, and so I wanted

404
00:22:11,845 --> 00:22:14,685
Speaker 2: to create a line. And that's when I came up

405
00:22:14,685 --> 00:22:18,485
Speaker 2: with the idea for Stripe's Beauty that was specifically targeting women,

406
00:22:19,245 --> 00:22:24,245
Speaker 2: were speaking to women with those same symptoms and targeting

407
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Speaker 2: their needs massive hydration loss.

408
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Speaker 4: Basically, when you decided to speak out, were the people

409
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Speaker 4: around you who manage your career nervous? Because would that

410
00:22:37,365 --> 00:22:39,725
Speaker 4: change how you were seen in your industry? Would it

411
00:22:39,845 --> 00:22:42,005
Speaker 4: change the parts that you were considered for.

412
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Speaker 2: I certainly thought about it myself over and over again.

413
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Speaker 3: It's it's a good idea or a terrible idea.

414
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Speaker 2: I really oscillated back and forth, and I took my time.

415
00:22:55,605 --> 00:22:59,965
Speaker 2: It took years to come to develop the nerve to

416
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Speaker 2: actually finally say.

417
00:23:01,045 --> 00:23:03,925
Speaker 3: It out loud, and like I said, the.

418
00:23:03,845 --> 00:23:07,645
Speaker 2: Exhaustion, I thought, you know, this is too much to carry,

419
00:23:07,725 --> 00:23:10,925
Speaker 2: and almost naming every proper that you have before somebody

420
00:23:10,925 --> 00:23:15,925
Speaker 2: else does is empowering. Once I learned the statistics that

421
00:23:16,485 --> 00:23:19,805
Speaker 2: all of these women are going into menopause every single day,

422
00:23:20,005 --> 00:23:23,125
Speaker 2: and that's fifty percent of the population that will get there.

423
00:23:24,125 --> 00:23:26,445
Speaker 2: Why is it such a taboo thing? This just doesn't

424
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Speaker 2: make any sense.

425
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Speaker 4: Have you noticed that it's changed the way you've been perceived?

426
00:23:30,605 --> 00:23:32,365
Speaker 4: Do you get sent difference? Well?

427
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Speaker 2: Now, I mean, you know, I'm working on a show

428
00:23:35,005 --> 00:23:39,725
Speaker 2: with all women right now and menopause. There's lines in

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Speaker 2: it that's addressing menopause.

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Speaker 3: There was in Feud as well. They know I'm not

431
00:23:46,285 --> 00:23:48,005
Speaker 3: afraid to talk about it. Obviously.

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Speaker 4: You said you've become like the Hollywood go to confessor

433
00:23:52,005 --> 00:23:57,965
Speaker 4: that women like famous women just text you I'm there,

434
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Speaker 4: I've arrived.

435
00:23:58,885 --> 00:23:59,805
Speaker 1: What does that feel like?

436
00:24:00,805 --> 00:24:04,645
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny and I welcome them. I say, yeah,

437
00:24:04,725 --> 00:24:06,765
Speaker 2: bring it on. What do you need a doctor? Do

438
00:24:06,805 --> 00:24:07,605
Speaker 2: you need a shoulder?

439
00:24:07,685 --> 00:24:09,445
Speaker 3: Do you need well?

440
00:24:09,605 --> 00:24:13,285
Speaker 2: You know, how can I help? And I really appreciate it. Yeah,

441
00:24:13,365 --> 00:24:16,245
Speaker 2: people want to confess. They don't want to carry it

442
00:24:16,325 --> 00:24:20,645
Speaker 2: on their own. And knowing that I have done, you know,

443
00:24:20,685 --> 00:24:25,205
Speaker 2: a few years of researching it, experiencing it, I think

444
00:24:25,325 --> 00:24:29,125
Speaker 2: that puts them on a fast track of feeling, you know,

445
00:24:29,245 --> 00:24:33,525
Speaker 2: a little bit more comfortable in the beginning of that way.

446
00:24:33,725 --> 00:24:35,805
Speaker 4: For actors, just back to your career for a second.

447
00:24:35,845 --> 00:24:41,045
Speaker 4: For actors, it seems like from the outside there's two types.

448
00:24:41,125 --> 00:24:48,525
Speaker 4: There's celebrities and there's actors. And with actors, from my perspective,

449
00:24:49,485 --> 00:24:51,525
Speaker 4: it seems like they can't You don't know a lot

450
00:24:51,565 --> 00:24:55,045
Speaker 4: about their private life. They don't do necessarily a lot

451
00:24:55,045 --> 00:24:58,325
Speaker 4: of press, they don't post a lot on social It's

452
00:24:58,365 --> 00:25:02,405
Speaker 4: about disappearing into the work, and that does seem to

453
00:25:02,445 --> 00:25:05,285
Speaker 4: be like a choice. And again no judgment on either choice,

454
00:25:05,285 --> 00:25:07,645
Speaker 4: but they do seem to be different kind of paths.

455
00:25:08,445 --> 00:25:11,925
Speaker 4: And I was so interested to see a few years

456
00:25:11,965 --> 00:25:16,765
Speaker 4: ago when you started talking about menopause. It wasn't just

457
00:25:16,885 --> 00:25:20,125
Speaker 4: coming out as a menopausal woman, but it was also

458
00:25:20,245 --> 00:25:22,845
Speaker 4: making a different choice. I'm going to allow the public

459
00:25:23,245 --> 00:25:26,165
Speaker 4: to know me as Naomi more than.

460
00:25:26,125 --> 00:25:27,885
Speaker 1: Just the character that I play.

461
00:25:28,805 --> 00:25:31,365
Speaker 4: I was so fascinated by that decision and why you

462
00:25:31,485 --> 00:25:33,765
Speaker 4: made it at that time in your life.

463
00:25:34,205 --> 00:25:34,885
Speaker 3: I think it.

464
00:25:34,845 --> 00:25:38,325
Speaker 2: Didn't it happen with COVID, you know, where we were

465
00:25:38,405 --> 00:25:41,365
Speaker 2: all trying to connect with each other, whether that was

466
00:25:41,405 --> 00:25:47,245
Speaker 2: on Instagram and being foolish or putting some message across

467
00:25:47,325 --> 00:25:54,285
Speaker 2: that was hopefully connecting women with other women. Think and

468
00:25:54,405 --> 00:25:59,125
Speaker 2: certainly the idea to launch stripes happened at the beginning

469
00:25:59,125 --> 00:26:02,165
Speaker 2: of COVID. It was something I'd been percolating, but like

470
00:26:02,205 --> 00:26:04,165
Speaker 2: I said, I didn't have the courage to go forward.

471
00:26:04,285 --> 00:26:05,765
Speaker 3: But when we were.

472
00:26:05,645 --> 00:26:09,885
Speaker 2: All stuck at home with nothing but our ideas, family

473
00:26:09,965 --> 00:26:14,165
Speaker 2: and you know, dreams, basically, that's when I started to

474
00:26:14,205 --> 00:26:18,165
Speaker 2: really formulate and just go, you know, fuck this, why not?

475
00:26:18,445 --> 00:26:18,805
Speaker 3: Why not?

476
00:26:20,125 --> 00:26:21,805
Speaker 1: The story of how you and Billy met.

477
00:26:21,965 --> 00:26:25,965
Speaker 4: I had never asked you guys about your origin story before.

478
00:26:26,765 --> 00:26:29,245
Speaker 4: I love people's origin stories. But what I didn't realize

479
00:26:29,285 --> 00:26:33,805
Speaker 4: is that you had met on a job and that

480
00:26:33,885 --> 00:26:38,965
Speaker 4: you'd actually played lovers and that you'd had sex scenes together.

481
00:26:39,365 --> 00:26:41,765
Speaker 1: Acting is so weird.

482
00:26:41,805 --> 00:26:46,285
Speaker 3: It's so weird, strange job wearing people, seeing other people

483
00:26:46,365 --> 00:26:46,965
Speaker 3: so weird.

484
00:26:47,085 --> 00:26:48,885
Speaker 4: And you were like, we've been dry humping. But I

485
00:26:49,045 --> 00:26:52,765
Speaker 4: just recently ended my long term relationship with the father

486
00:26:52,805 --> 00:26:54,605
Speaker 4: of my children, and I wasn't.

487
00:26:54,765 --> 00:26:57,885
Speaker 1: It didn't occur to me, like can you, like, how

488
00:26:57,925 --> 00:26:59,885
Speaker 1: does it? How does it.

489
00:26:59,965 --> 00:27:07,445
Speaker 4: Change from oh, we're just dry humping, and like how.

490
00:27:07,685 --> 00:27:11,005
Speaker 2: You get to know that person? It's the in between moments,

491
00:27:11,085 --> 00:27:14,725
Speaker 2: it's not the dry humping. Although there was a moment

492
00:27:14,965 --> 00:27:17,845
Speaker 2: after we'd got to know each other, which was several

493
00:27:17,925 --> 00:27:21,525
Speaker 2: months of sitting around talking about you know.

494
00:27:21,645 --> 00:27:24,605
Speaker 3: Any list of things, whether it was kids or.

495
00:27:26,165 --> 00:27:30,005
Speaker 2: Acting or you know, business travel.

496
00:27:30,165 --> 00:27:31,725
Speaker 3: You know, we covered.

497
00:27:31,405 --> 00:27:36,485
Speaker 2: Everything in these sometimes hour long lighting setups, and we

498
00:27:36,645 --> 00:27:40,445
Speaker 2: just got along. And you notice how someone works with

499
00:27:40,565 --> 00:27:44,325
Speaker 2: other people, not just your connectivity, but how they treat

500
00:27:44,445 --> 00:27:48,405
Speaker 2: other people, how people respond to them. You know, you

501
00:27:48,525 --> 00:27:51,445
Speaker 2: learn a lot about each other through you know, twelve

502
00:27:51,605 --> 00:27:52,565
Speaker 2: fourteen hour days.

503
00:27:52,565 --> 00:27:56,005
Speaker 4: Sometimes does it start off as like because of the

504
00:27:56,085 --> 00:27:59,525
Speaker 4: physical intimacy, does it?

505
00:27:59,565 --> 00:28:02,405
Speaker 1: Is it sometimes like any other connection.

506
00:28:02,485 --> 00:28:05,125
Speaker 4: It's like sometimes small talk and then sometimes you really

507
00:28:05,125 --> 00:28:07,325
Speaker 4: get to know someone and it goes deeper or do

508
00:28:07,365 --> 00:28:09,765
Speaker 4: you just go straight to the deeper because you already

509
00:28:09,845 --> 00:28:12,165
Speaker 4: kind of dry humping, so it's a bit of a shortcut.

510
00:28:13,965 --> 00:28:23,285
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, Mia, we're both consummate professionals. I mean, Billy really,

511
00:28:23,445 --> 00:28:25,805
Speaker 3: seriously is there for the work?

512
00:28:26,005 --> 00:28:31,085
Speaker 2: And then I think yes, some gentle, nice, friendly conversations

513
00:28:31,125 --> 00:28:37,125
Speaker 2: developed over time. And then when later when we saw

514
00:28:37,165 --> 00:28:39,645
Speaker 2: each other, and by the way, we did meet here

515
00:28:39,685 --> 00:28:42,925
Speaker 2: and there throughout New York, but that was when we

516
00:28:42,965 --> 00:28:46,445
Speaker 2: came to know each other properly on the set of Gypsy. Later,

517
00:28:46,925 --> 00:28:50,885
Speaker 2: outside of work, we had friends who were scheming, who

518
00:28:50,925 --> 00:28:54,805
Speaker 2: were trying to put us together, and that's when you

519
00:28:54,965 --> 00:28:58,525
Speaker 2: learn even more about each other, not just who they

520
00:28:58,565 --> 00:29:02,445
Speaker 2: are in the workplace, how they interact. But that's when

521
00:29:02,645 --> 00:29:05,765
Speaker 2: I think the door, the crack of the door opened

522
00:29:05,765 --> 00:29:07,845
Speaker 2: and the boundaries sort of slightly.

523
00:29:08,005 --> 00:29:10,845
Speaker 1: Shifted looking for it. I was not.

524
00:29:10,925 --> 00:29:11,645
Speaker 3: Looking for it.

525
00:29:11,685 --> 00:29:16,085
Speaker 2: And you know, though we'd been separated for a good year,

526
00:29:16,485 --> 00:29:19,445
Speaker 2: we'd only just officially announced it and told the kids.

527
00:29:19,445 --> 00:29:22,085
Speaker 3: So I certainly wasn't in any.

528
00:29:23,565 --> 00:29:27,805
Speaker 2: You know, by any means, looking to partner up with anyone.

529
00:29:27,885 --> 00:29:30,805
Speaker 3: And it was a very very slow.

530
00:29:31,045 --> 00:29:32,725
Speaker 1: Start for a lot of us.

531
00:29:32,925 --> 00:29:35,525
Speaker 4: We go through for those people who are in long

532
00:29:35,605 --> 00:29:39,245
Speaker 4: term relationships, A lot of women go through menopause with

533
00:29:39,365 --> 00:29:43,725
Speaker 4: the person who knew them before. So it's kind of

534
00:29:44,085 --> 00:29:46,565
Speaker 4: which is it provides its own challenges, But there's a

535
00:29:46,605 --> 00:29:51,365
Speaker 4: certain I don't know, safety in not having to come

536
00:29:51,365 --> 00:29:54,365
Speaker 4: out to sort of have it happen to someone who's

537
00:29:54,445 --> 00:29:57,805
Speaker 4: known you for a long time. When you're on the

538
00:29:57,845 --> 00:30:01,645
Speaker 4: other side of it and you're dating someone, Can you

539
00:30:01,685 --> 00:30:04,565
Speaker 4: talk about that that first night when you came home

540
00:30:04,685 --> 00:30:08,805
Speaker 4: and with the patches, Yeah, and what went through your mind?

541
00:30:09,485 --> 00:30:11,125
Speaker 3: It was mortifying, And.

542
00:30:12,925 --> 00:30:17,245
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm always going to go very carefully. So I

543
00:30:17,325 --> 00:30:21,725
Speaker 2: already had carried the shame in private for quite some time,

544
00:30:22,325 --> 00:30:27,645
Speaker 2: so to begin, you know, exchanging touchy feely moments with

545
00:30:28,565 --> 00:30:32,925
Speaker 2: somebody was quite scary. I didn't know how my body

546
00:30:33,405 --> 00:30:39,765
Speaker 2: was working so much anymore. And I, yeah, this patch.

547
00:30:40,605 --> 00:30:44,005
Speaker 2: There is many different ways to take hormone replacement therapy,

548
00:30:44,045 --> 00:30:46,405
Speaker 2: as you know, at this point in time, I was

549
00:30:46,445 --> 00:30:49,965
Speaker 2: on the patch. And if anyone's taken the patch before

550
00:30:50,005 --> 00:30:53,805
Speaker 2: you know, it leaves a nasty spear yeap, Yeah, like

551
00:30:54,165 --> 00:30:55,005
Speaker 2: that you have to.

552
00:30:54,885 --> 00:30:57,565
Speaker 4: Like scrub off. I can't believe a doctor told you

553
00:30:57,605 --> 00:30:59,445
Speaker 4: to take it off with car oil.

554
00:30:59,725 --> 00:31:01,565
Speaker 3: Yeah. He was like, it's the only thing that works.

555
00:31:01,845 --> 00:31:04,885
Speaker 2: So I, yeah, I got caught up in the moment

556
00:31:05,285 --> 00:31:08,805
Speaker 2: and had to excuse myself. And again this is in

557
00:31:08,845 --> 00:31:10,925
Speaker 2: the book, which is why I feel like I'm okay

558
00:31:11,005 --> 00:31:16,165
Speaker 2: telling it. Billy has signed off on it. But yeah,

559
00:31:16,925 --> 00:31:20,685
Speaker 2: I couldn't get not just I took off the patch,

560
00:31:20,725 --> 00:31:22,805
Speaker 2: but the mark. And I was just in there for

561
00:31:22,925 --> 00:31:27,045
Speaker 2: ages trying to, you know, get rid of any trace,

562
00:31:27,165 --> 00:31:27,525
Speaker 2: like he.

563
00:31:27,485 --> 00:31:29,965
Speaker 3: Would think this would What was wrong with you? What's

564
00:31:30,005 --> 00:31:31,125
Speaker 3: that all over your body?

565
00:31:31,245 --> 00:31:32,845
Speaker 4: You know? How did you feel you had to take

566
00:31:32,885 --> 00:31:35,805
Speaker 4: off the patch because someone here was going.

567
00:31:35,725 --> 00:31:36,565
Speaker 1: To see you naked.

568
00:31:37,725 --> 00:31:39,565
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is the end.

569
00:31:39,765 --> 00:31:43,085
Speaker 2: I'm I'm only here, you know, like as a as

570
00:31:43,125 --> 00:31:45,685
Speaker 2: an aging woman, I'm not going to be able to

571
00:31:45,805 --> 00:31:48,485
Speaker 2: I mean, we hadn't even had those kind of discussions about,

572
00:31:48,685 --> 00:31:52,605
Speaker 2: you know, would he want to extend his family or anything.

573
00:31:52,845 --> 00:31:55,685
Speaker 4: Ready in your forties though, So this is so interesting

574
00:31:55,725 --> 00:31:56,965
Speaker 4: about the shame that you carried.

575
00:31:57,165 --> 00:32:01,125
Speaker 1: It's not like it would have been a shock, no,

576
00:32:01,285 --> 00:32:04,605
Speaker 1: I know, but it's just it's how you felt.

577
00:32:05,045 --> 00:32:05,205
Speaker 4: Yeah.

578
00:32:05,445 --> 00:32:06,885
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a shame that's.

579
00:32:06,845 --> 00:32:11,085
Speaker 2: Like yourself, and it's my fault. I did this to myself.

580
00:32:11,125 --> 00:32:14,525
Speaker 2: I brought myself onto menopause early because I did X

581
00:32:14,685 --> 00:32:15,765
Speaker 2: y Z you know.

582
00:32:15,845 --> 00:32:19,365
Speaker 4: And you needed to literally scrub away the signs that

583
00:32:19,405 --> 00:32:21,405
Speaker 4: you were not no longer fertile.

584
00:32:22,165 --> 00:32:26,685
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, can you imagine? And I literally am, I

585
00:32:26,725 --> 00:32:28,165
Speaker 3: actually can came.

586
00:32:27,925 --> 00:32:30,965
Speaker 2: Out after being in there for far too long without

587
00:32:31,165 --> 00:32:33,885
Speaker 2: seeming completely weird on the other side of the door,

588
00:32:34,645 --> 00:32:36,845
Speaker 2: and it was like, is everything okay?

589
00:32:37,245 --> 00:32:39,045
Speaker 3: And and I.

590
00:32:38,965 --> 00:32:46,605
Speaker 2: Just was like yes, well no, but yes, And I.

591
00:32:46,445 --> 00:32:50,045
Speaker 3: Was just in there. Look, I'm in menopause. Should I

592
00:32:50,165 --> 00:32:50,605
Speaker 3: just leave?

593
00:32:51,285 --> 00:32:54,165
Speaker 2: I'm sure this is going to be Oh you got

594
00:32:55,285 --> 00:32:59,285
Speaker 2: and and he was like what, because like we're just

595
00:32:59,285 --> 00:33:02,125
Speaker 2: getting fine and well, you know.

596
00:33:02,765 --> 00:33:04,645
Speaker 4: And then he said something lovely to you which we're

597
00:33:04,685 --> 00:33:06,845
Speaker 4: not going to talk about, but that's in the book

598
00:33:07,245 --> 00:33:12,125
Speaker 4: that made you feel in that mo so safe.

599
00:33:12,005 --> 00:33:14,805
Speaker 1: And clearly it's like it unlocked something in you.

600
00:33:16,485 --> 00:33:19,965
Speaker 4: That just gave you the confidence to not just be

601
00:33:20,085 --> 00:33:22,285
Speaker 4: comfortable with him, but be comfortable with the world.

602
00:33:22,325 --> 00:33:23,685
Speaker 1: I mean, that's an incredible gift.

603
00:33:24,725 --> 00:33:30,525
Speaker 2: It is. It was a level of safety that not

604
00:33:30,565 --> 00:33:35,525
Speaker 2: only did I want to, I really really needed and.

605
00:33:35,725 --> 00:33:38,485
Speaker 3: It was, like you say, a powerful gift.

606
00:33:41,285 --> 00:33:44,525
Speaker 4: The rest of my conversation with Naomi, we talk about

607
00:33:44,565 --> 00:33:48,485
Speaker 4: beauty and botox and the surgery she will and won't

608
00:33:48,525 --> 00:33:49,965
Speaker 4: have lots.

609
00:33:49,685 --> 00:33:57,965
Speaker 1: More after this short break. You talk about.

610
00:33:57,725 --> 00:34:01,485
Speaker 4: Aging as well, and it's something that we all. I mean,

611
00:34:01,525 --> 00:34:05,525
Speaker 4: aging is exhausting, Naomi, Like it's even for someone whose

612
00:34:05,765 --> 00:34:09,885
Speaker 4: faces are not connected without work at all. It just

613
00:34:09,925 --> 00:34:12,125
Speaker 4: feels like there are so many choices to make. Do

614
00:34:12,165 --> 00:34:13,965
Speaker 4: I get botox, do I not? How much do I

615
00:34:13,965 --> 00:34:15,445
Speaker 4: get how often do I get it? Do I get

616
00:34:15,445 --> 00:34:16,005
Speaker 4: a bit of filler?

617
00:34:16,005 --> 00:34:16,725
Speaker 1: Do I do this? Do it?

618
00:34:16,765 --> 00:34:18,645
Speaker 4: And all these different treatments and all these things you

619
00:34:18,685 --> 00:34:21,005
Speaker 4: can try and all the money and then do I

620
00:34:21,325 --> 00:34:25,605
Speaker 4: go on a zempic like it does feel completely exhausting.

621
00:34:25,925 --> 00:34:29,325
Speaker 4: How do you personally navigate all of those choices when

622
00:34:29,685 --> 00:34:31,285
Speaker 4: you are so under scrutiny.

623
00:34:32,085 --> 00:34:38,165
Speaker 2: I like, I'm obsessed with knowing everything, researching it, taking consultations,

624
00:34:38,245 --> 00:34:39,965
Speaker 2: even talking to friends.

625
00:34:40,365 --> 00:34:43,045
Speaker 3: What if wait, you did this, you did what? Okay?

626
00:34:43,085 --> 00:34:45,085
Speaker 3: And what was the recovery? How was it? You know?

627
00:34:45,845 --> 00:34:50,645
Speaker 2: And I've certainly experimented with little bits and pieces in there.

628
00:34:51,525 --> 00:34:52,805
Speaker 3: I say this in the book.

629
00:34:53,485 --> 00:34:57,925
Speaker 2: For now, I'm going to just tolerate my jewels and

630
00:34:57,965 --> 00:35:00,885
Speaker 2: hopefully you will too for now, you know, Yeah, yeah,

631
00:35:00,965 --> 00:35:05,525
Speaker 2: for now on camera and hope to you know, for

632
00:35:05,645 --> 00:35:08,165
Speaker 2: Jesus that the DP has.

633
00:35:08,085 --> 00:35:10,285
Speaker 3: Enough talent he can light me.

634
00:35:10,365 --> 00:35:12,045
Speaker 1: Well the director of photography.

635
00:35:12,605 --> 00:35:14,725
Speaker 4: Yeah, do you feel vulnerable when you go onto a

636
00:35:15,645 --> 00:35:18,885
Speaker 4: set or I don't know how these things happen like cast,

637
00:35:19,205 --> 00:35:21,405
Speaker 4: not that you'd have to audition for anything anymore, but

638
00:35:22,205 --> 00:35:24,445
Speaker 4: it must feel vulnerable, like in the makeup chair with

639
00:35:24,565 --> 00:35:27,485
Speaker 4: the director or the director of photography.

640
00:35:28,525 --> 00:35:29,765
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.

641
00:35:30,325 --> 00:35:33,325
Speaker 2: And I always, you know, I try to just get

642
00:35:33,325 --> 00:35:35,845
Speaker 2: ahead of it, like you know, in the best way.

643
00:35:35,885 --> 00:35:39,565
Speaker 2: I just often go over to the DPDP in Australia

644
00:35:40,205 --> 00:35:42,845
Speaker 2: and say, hey, these are not my friend and they're

645
00:35:42,845 --> 00:35:44,325
Speaker 2: not going to be your friend either.

646
00:35:44,605 --> 00:35:48,165
Speaker 3: So these littlejowl jowls here, they create pockets.

647
00:35:48,205 --> 00:35:50,765
Speaker 2: And if you can help me out, and it's not

648
00:35:50,845 --> 00:35:52,845
Speaker 2: always you know, bounce.

649
00:35:52,565 --> 00:35:54,245
Speaker 3: That I need, I need a negative light.

650
00:35:54,405 --> 00:35:57,045
Speaker 2: You know, I've learned, you know, I know I know

651
00:35:57,165 --> 00:35:59,725
Speaker 2: the tricks and you know it's See, there was a

652
00:35:59,765 --> 00:36:01,965
Speaker 2: time where I would think, oh, I can't believe that

653
00:36:02,045 --> 00:36:04,925
Speaker 2: actress spoke to the DP or the director like that.

654
00:36:04,925 --> 00:36:07,805
Speaker 3: That's but you know, we.

655
00:36:07,045 --> 00:36:09,125
Speaker 2: We have to do that to look after ourselves, and

656
00:36:09,445 --> 00:36:11,405
Speaker 2: especially when you're working on a low.

657
00:36:11,245 --> 00:36:13,645
Speaker 3: Budget movie and you.

658
00:36:13,605 --> 00:36:18,965
Speaker 2: Know everyone's fighting time and so you know, all things

659
00:36:18,965 --> 00:36:22,525
Speaker 2: get fixed later on. Amazing things that can happen in post.

660
00:36:23,045 --> 00:36:26,445
Speaker 2: But I want to try and put as much as

661
00:36:26,445 --> 00:36:29,725
Speaker 2: I can the message forward that it's okay.

662
00:36:30,365 --> 00:36:31,925
Speaker 3: It's okay to age.

663
00:36:32,365 --> 00:36:37,125
Speaker 2: It's a privilege, and you know it is uncomfortable, it's

664
00:36:37,165 --> 00:36:40,205
Speaker 2: not for the faint of heart, but it's okay to

665
00:36:40,285 --> 00:36:43,685
Speaker 2: do nothing, and it's okay to do lots of things

666
00:36:43,725 --> 00:36:47,725
Speaker 2: if you want to, whatever suits your fancy. And I'm

667
00:36:47,765 --> 00:36:50,125
Speaker 2: not swearing off it. By the way, there may be

668
00:36:50,125 --> 00:36:55,125
Speaker 2: a where never say never. And I say this in

669
00:36:55,205 --> 00:36:58,005
Speaker 2: the book Marie Condy, who was like everything had to

670
00:36:58,045 --> 00:37:00,805
Speaker 2: be exactly in place until she had three kids, and

671
00:37:00,845 --> 00:37:04,005
Speaker 2: then she changed her whole narrative because who can have

672
00:37:04,125 --> 00:37:07,965
Speaker 2: everything in the exact precision when you've got kids flying

673
00:37:07,965 --> 00:37:11,525
Speaker 2: around the place. Well, the same goes for me. I'd

674
00:37:11,685 --> 00:37:16,085
Speaker 2: like to promote healthy aging, but at the same time,

675
00:37:16,205 --> 00:37:19,285
Speaker 2: if they come up with something that makes me feel

676
00:37:20,645 --> 00:37:22,645
Speaker 2: so much better than I might just do it.

677
00:37:23,445 --> 00:37:25,125
Speaker 1: I want to ask you two more questions.

678
00:37:25,165 --> 00:37:28,685
Speaker 4: The first is about grief, because that's something that takes

679
00:37:28,685 --> 00:37:31,805
Speaker 4: a lot of us by surprise. I was going through

680
00:37:32,325 --> 00:37:36,245
Speaker 4: perimenopause and menopause, also through COVID.

681
00:37:35,885 --> 00:37:38,085
Speaker 1: And I would go for these walks and I would

682
00:37:38,125 --> 00:37:39,125
Speaker 1: just cry. Every day.

683
00:37:39,165 --> 00:37:42,205
Speaker 4: I would cry and I couldn't My son had moved

684
00:37:42,245 --> 00:37:46,165
Speaker 4: out of home, and I couldn't really work out why

685
00:37:46,165 --> 00:37:48,285
Speaker 4: I was crying. I thought it was about that, and

686
00:37:48,325 --> 00:37:50,725
Speaker 4: now looking back, I realized.

687
00:37:50,285 --> 00:37:51,245
Speaker 1: That I was grieving.

688
00:37:51,285 --> 00:37:55,125
Speaker 4: I was in this transition process between you know, menopause

689
00:37:55,125 --> 00:37:57,925
Speaker 4: and perimenopause is a transition, right, It's like reverse puberty,

690
00:37:58,325 --> 00:37:58,885
Speaker 4: and I was.

691
00:37:58,885 --> 00:38:00,405
Speaker 1: Grieving for.

692
00:38:01,805 --> 00:38:05,845
Speaker 4: What I was leaving behind. What was your experience of grief.

693
00:38:07,405 --> 00:38:10,885
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, there's the physicological side of things

694
00:38:10,965 --> 00:38:16,085
Speaker 2: and then there's the emotional side. And I remember actually

695
00:38:16,725 --> 00:38:22,085
Speaker 2: when I had my first baby, that drop in hormones

696
00:38:22,565 --> 00:38:25,405
Speaker 2: and when you start you leave the hospital and you're

697
00:38:25,525 --> 00:38:28,565
Speaker 2: just sobbing and you have no idea why you've got

698
00:38:28,565 --> 00:38:33,565
Speaker 2: a beautiful baby, and you're like, I don't understand what's happening.

699
00:38:33,685 --> 00:38:35,725
Speaker 3: Like anything could make me cry.

700
00:38:36,365 --> 00:38:39,965
Speaker 2: So there's that when when you're through peri metopause, this

701
00:38:40,605 --> 00:38:44,245
Speaker 2: like the hormones just suddenly flood out of your body

702
00:38:45,005 --> 00:38:49,285
Speaker 2: as well as yes, you're grieving this change, this transition.

703
00:38:50,085 --> 00:38:53,445
Speaker 3: You're a different you and you're not young anymore.

704
00:38:54,005 --> 00:38:56,725
Speaker 2: How do you how do you walk through this next

705
00:38:56,765 --> 00:38:58,925
Speaker 2: period of your life as.

706
00:39:00,005 --> 00:39:00,685
Speaker 3: This new you?

707
00:39:01,165 --> 00:39:07,165
Speaker 2: And it's it can be scary. And the saving grace

708
00:39:07,325 --> 00:39:11,525
Speaker 2: for me has been through connecting with other women and

709
00:39:11,605 --> 00:39:17,285
Speaker 2: sharing my deepest, darkest secrets, my truth and knowing that

710
00:39:17,325 --> 00:39:21,605
Speaker 2: we're not alone and we grieve all the time. Every

711
00:39:21,685 --> 00:39:24,805
Speaker 2: day is there is a little version of grief from

712
00:39:24,845 --> 00:39:28,365
Speaker 2: beginning to the end of our lives. And it doesn't

713
00:39:28,365 --> 00:39:32,445
Speaker 2: have to look like a death in the family or

714
00:39:32,685 --> 00:39:38,085
Speaker 2: a friend, or it's it's losing a job, or it's

715
00:39:38,405 --> 00:39:41,885
Speaker 2: saying goodbye to your parents because you're leaving the country,

716
00:39:42,005 --> 00:39:45,765
Speaker 2: or you know, any big or small way there is

717
00:39:45,805 --> 00:39:46,965
Speaker 2: grief involved.

718
00:39:47,325 --> 00:39:48,165
Speaker 3: And crying.

719
00:39:49,565 --> 00:39:53,445
Speaker 2: We talk about this in the book is so cathartic.

720
00:39:53,725 --> 00:39:55,285
Speaker 2: It's free therapy therapy.

721
00:39:55,685 --> 00:40:00,205
Speaker 4: I love how you said that crying is free therapy.

722
00:40:00,245 --> 00:40:02,645
Speaker 4: I'd never thought about it like that. And you know,

723
00:40:02,765 --> 00:40:06,565
Speaker 4: you also talk about the non free therapy, that the

724
00:40:06,565 --> 00:40:08,645
Speaker 4: pain kind of therapy, which is also really.

725
00:40:08,445 --> 00:40:11,565
Speaker 3: I a big crier, Like, yeah, it's interesting.

726
00:40:12,125 --> 00:40:14,405
Speaker 2: You know, people see my movies and think, oh wow,

727
00:40:14,445 --> 00:40:16,325
Speaker 2: she must be an emotional wreck.

728
00:40:17,005 --> 00:40:19,325
Speaker 3: But I'm pretty stoic.

729
00:40:19,205 --> 00:40:21,325
Speaker 1: And playful, which is something that.

730
00:40:21,925 --> 00:40:25,485
Speaker 2: As Yes, it's another way of getting away from the grief.

731
00:40:25,405 --> 00:40:28,565
Speaker 3: So but it is another version of that.

732
00:40:28,685 --> 00:40:32,685
Speaker 2: It is like sharing something that you're afraid to feel.

733
00:40:34,245 --> 00:40:38,845
Speaker 2: But I think you know, the book, the Company, Stripes Beauty,

734
00:40:39,445 --> 00:40:42,765
Speaker 2: and my movie career, they're all kind of a meshed.

735
00:40:42,925 --> 00:40:48,765
Speaker 2: They're all about hopefully giving people permission to feel something.

736
00:40:49,645 --> 00:40:51,325
Speaker 1: It's very generous what you've done.

737
00:40:52,045 --> 00:40:52,525
Speaker 3: Thank you.

738
00:40:53,325 --> 00:40:55,205
Speaker 1: It is, no, it is very generous.

739
00:40:55,605 --> 00:40:59,605
Speaker 4: My last question is about what are the good bits.

740
00:40:59,925 --> 00:41:04,085
Speaker 2: I would say, you know, the women finding those women,

741
00:41:04,405 --> 00:41:07,685
Speaker 2: and they're the ones that you've known for a long time,

742
00:41:08,205 --> 00:41:12,765
Speaker 2: that you've brought through decades. That just gets deeper and deeper,

743
00:41:12,805 --> 00:41:15,885
Speaker 2: and then there's actually room for new ones, which is

744
00:41:16,405 --> 00:41:18,925
Speaker 2: I never would have thought that I could create friendships

745
00:41:19,125 --> 00:41:23,365
Speaker 2: after my forties with my life as full as it is,

746
00:41:23,405 --> 00:41:27,605
Speaker 2: But I still have room. I'm still making great connections

747
00:41:27,645 --> 00:41:33,245
Speaker 2: with women who have similar stories. So I would say, yeah,

748
00:41:33,245 --> 00:41:36,805
Speaker 2: they're my teachers. None of the women around me are that.

749
00:41:36,925 --> 00:41:42,565
Speaker 2: They're not suffering fools. They're smart, they're funny, they're adventurous.

750
00:41:43,325 --> 00:41:47,245
Speaker 2: So I'm really proud of those. And yeah, getting honest

751
00:41:47,325 --> 00:41:53,125
Speaker 2: in your relationship communication is everything. It's the gateway too

752
00:41:53,325 --> 00:41:56,965
Speaker 2: far less suffering and not just in your relationship at work,

753
00:41:57,605 --> 00:42:00,565
Speaker 2: you know. And I'm so glad that all of this

754
00:42:00,605 --> 00:42:04,365
Speaker 2: has led to, you know, more ease with the conversation

755
00:42:04,525 --> 00:42:06,285
Speaker 2: surrounding menopause.

756
00:42:06,365 --> 00:42:06,525
Speaker 3: You know.

757
00:42:06,685 --> 00:42:10,165
Speaker 2: And I've had experiences where I'm stopped on the streets

758
00:42:10,245 --> 00:42:13,165
Speaker 2: now me and this is one of the good bits where.

759
00:42:13,205 --> 00:42:15,205
Speaker 3: I think, oh God, I haven't got my lippyon.

760
00:42:15,445 --> 00:42:18,645
Speaker 2: They're going to want a selfie, you know, because it's

761
00:42:18,645 --> 00:42:20,805
Speaker 2: a movie in me or something, and they say, I

762
00:42:20,925 --> 00:42:24,285
Speaker 2: just want you to know I had a conversation with

763
00:42:24,325 --> 00:42:26,445
Speaker 2: my husband, and I never thought I'd be able to

764
00:42:26,485 --> 00:42:27,165
Speaker 2: talk about it.

765
00:42:27,245 --> 00:42:29,885
Speaker 3: And it's all because of you. Thank you, thank you

766
00:42:29,965 --> 00:42:34,445
Speaker 3: for creating the dialogue. And that is so meaningful to me.

767
00:42:34,605 --> 00:42:37,685
Speaker 2: That is, you know, just for one person, and that

768
00:42:37,765 --> 00:42:41,125
Speaker 2: one person might tell another person. That is I feel

769
00:42:41,125 --> 00:42:44,845
Speaker 2: like my job has is done, and you know, I

770
00:42:44,885 --> 00:42:50,405
Speaker 2: feel proud of having taken the risk to all of it.

771
00:42:50,645 --> 00:42:52,365
Speaker 1: So how are you so normal?

772
00:42:54,045 --> 00:42:54,645
Speaker 3: Am I? Normal?

773
00:42:54,805 --> 00:42:58,325
Speaker 1: How I am that you're stupidly normal?

774
00:42:58,525 --> 00:43:02,805
Speaker 4: And it's like I've met a lot of famous people,

775
00:43:03,885 --> 00:43:05,565
Speaker 4: but it's like you're not famous.

776
00:43:05,645 --> 00:43:09,565
Speaker 1: They're different to you. And I've never seen anyone.

777
00:43:09,365 --> 00:43:12,325
Speaker 4: Where their fame as lightly as you wear yours. And

778
00:43:12,965 --> 00:43:16,965
Speaker 4: I've been thinking a lot about that. And is it

779
00:43:17,045 --> 00:43:21,205
Speaker 4: because do you think you weren't famous when you were

780
00:43:21,205 --> 00:43:23,845
Speaker 4: really young and so you became you were a fully

781
00:43:23,885 --> 00:43:27,085
Speaker 4: formed person. People say you freeze at the age, right.

782
00:43:27,645 --> 00:43:33,445
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think I nothing happened until thirty thirty one,

783
00:43:34,205 --> 00:43:37,485
Speaker 2: so I was fully formed. I've spent most of my

784
00:43:37,605 --> 00:43:40,485
Speaker 2: life not famous, although now it's getting it.

785
00:43:40,325 --> 00:43:41,325
Speaker 1: It's getting half half.

786
00:43:41,965 --> 00:43:44,365
Speaker 3: Yeah.

787
00:43:44,485 --> 00:43:47,165
Speaker 2: The only time I would say I exploit my fame

788
00:43:47,405 --> 00:43:49,325
Speaker 2: is to get a restaurant.

789
00:43:48,845 --> 00:43:51,365
Speaker 3: At table, you know, at a restaurant. That's when I

790
00:43:51,445 --> 00:43:52,725
Speaker 3: might call ahead and.

791
00:43:52,805 --> 00:43:57,165
Speaker 2: Hope, hope that that name might shift someone from a

792
00:43:57,205 --> 00:43:58,005
Speaker 2: no to a yes.

793
00:43:58,885 --> 00:44:01,085
Speaker 4: Well, you are a gift. Your book is a gift.

794
00:44:01,125 --> 00:44:03,285
Speaker 4: Your work is a gift. We haven't really spoken about

795
00:44:03,325 --> 00:44:06,845
Speaker 4: your work, but I mean, obviously watching this renaissance that

796
00:44:06,885 --> 00:44:10,205
Speaker 4: you're having. You've always worked steadily, but it seems like,

797
00:44:11,285 --> 00:44:14,245
Speaker 4: you know, you've become amused for Ryan Murphy and people

798
00:44:14,245 --> 00:44:16,485
Speaker 4: have been looking at you in a different way, and

799
00:44:16,525 --> 00:44:20,165
Speaker 4: you're getting to do the most extraordinary work and you

800
00:44:20,245 --> 00:44:22,525
Speaker 4: just keep getting better and better on screen and off it.

801
00:44:22,725 --> 00:44:26,565
Speaker 4: So you know, I just thank you, thank you for

802
00:44:26,605 --> 00:44:28,365
Speaker 4: writing this book and being in the world.

803
00:44:29,325 --> 00:44:32,445
Speaker 3: Oh thanks Mia, thank you so much for having me.

804
00:44:34,845 --> 00:44:38,645
Speaker 4: See I told you that she was stupidly normal. Isn't

805
00:44:38,645 --> 00:44:43,085
Speaker 4: she delightful? She just buzzes out of frequency. That is

806
00:44:43,325 --> 00:44:47,525
Speaker 4: very normal, like the girlfriend that you've had for a

807
00:44:47,565 --> 00:44:51,125
Speaker 4: really long time. There are so many elements to Naomi's

808
00:44:51,125 --> 00:44:53,565
Speaker 4: story that are best left in her own words as

809
00:44:53,605 --> 00:44:56,965
Speaker 4: she's written them, Like she has this experience with sex

810
00:44:56,965 --> 00:44:59,205
Speaker 4: toys which made me laugh so much that she wrote

811
00:44:59,205 --> 00:45:01,725
Speaker 4: about so we've popped the link to her book, Dare

812
00:45:01,725 --> 00:45:04,845
Speaker 4: I Say It? In the show notes. Now the executive

813
00:45:04,845 --> 00:45:07,645
Speaker 4: producer I've No Filter. His name A Brown Audio Production

814
00:45:07,765 --> 00:45:10,965
Speaker 4: is by Jacob Brown and I'm your host, Miya Friedman.

815
00:45:11,005 --> 00:45:12,365
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me in your ears.

816
00:45:18,845 --> 00:45:18,885
Speaker 3: M