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Speaker 1: So much. You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Spillers. Hello, m venom here.

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Speaker 2: I have been very busy lately, not just because of

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Speaker 2: the spill but because I've been working on a brand

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Speaker 2: new podcast called Biz. I've already had so many messages

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Speaker 2: from friends saying that this is exactly what they needed,

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Speaker 2: so I hope you'll love it as well. Beers tackles

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Speaker 2: everything from awkward pay rise conversations to dealing with colleagues

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Speaker 2: who steal your ideas. No more generic advice, just real

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Speaker 2: strategies from women who've been there, done that. It's hosted

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Speaker 2: by me m Vernham, Michelle Battisby, who's an entrepreneur that

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Speaker 2: launched Bumble in Australia and now runs her own startup

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Speaker 2: called Sunroom, and Sophurst. Soph took the lead from Google

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Speaker 2: to launch work Baby. It's a career coaching program for

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Speaker 2: people in their early career era, just like myself. In

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Speaker 2: this episode that you're about to hear, we answer three

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Speaker 2: work questions. One can I date a coworker? Two? How

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Speaker 2: to get experience for a job when you can't get

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Speaker 2: hired in entry level positions. And three reasonable things to

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Speaker 2: do during your lunch break and spoilers. You can do

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Speaker 2: way more than I thought. Enjoy this episode and if

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Speaker 2: you like it and want to listen every week, there's

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Speaker 2: a link in our show notes to all of the Epps. Hello,

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Speaker 2: and welcome back to biz Inbox. I'm m Ven. I'm

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Speaker 2: a podcaster and writer here at Mama Mia. And look,

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Speaker 2: I do have a toxic work behavior that I feel

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Speaker 2: like I need to confess right now, and it's that

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Speaker 2: I'm constantly stealing pens from other people's desks. I am

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Speaker 2: making eyes with our producer Taylor because I stole this

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Speaker 2: pen I'm holding right now from her desk and I'm

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Speaker 2: here joined with.

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Speaker 1: And I'm so pursed. Wait are you stealing them from

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Speaker 1: other people's desk?

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Speaker 2: Correct personal pens?

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Speaker 1: Yes? Do you give them back at the end?

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Speaker 2: It depends on my day, Like sometimes I forget. I

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Speaker 2: think they're all my pens. So if anyone who works

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Speaker 2: up on me just wants to do like a little

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Speaker 2: go past my desk, you.

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Speaker 1: Can pick up your lands for bias.

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Speaker 2: They're just there. I need one, I need one, so

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Speaker 2: bis inbox. Every week, we're going to be answering your

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Speaker 2: burning questions about work. Nothing is off the tables, and

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Speaker 2: we're not going to give you the big, flowery like

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Speaker 2: hustle culture answers. We're going to give you straight answers

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Speaker 2: that you need so you can avoid having that meant

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Speaker 2: to be at your desk, which I know you do have.

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Speaker 1: Today we're dealing with matters of the heart work experience,

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Speaker 1: and also just how sacred your lunch hour actually is.

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Speaker 2: I am very excited for that question, in particular because

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Speaker 2: I have very strong feelings about my lunch hour. Let's

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Speaker 2: get into it. So our very first question of the

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Speaker 2: week is our very first voicemail as well. It's from

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Speaker 2: an anonymous submission. This is what they said, Hi, I've.

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Speaker 1: Just got a question for the pod. What do you

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Speaker 1: guys think about dating coworkers? Is it weird?

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Speaker 2: No wonder? This was anonymous.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. Have you dated a co worker?

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Speaker 2: I have not. I would if there was options to

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Speaker 2: date coworkers working among MEA there's a very small pool

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Speaker 2: of single men that come through here.

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Speaker 1: So true. I think going into the office when you

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Speaker 1: have a crush on someone just makes it so much

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Speaker 1: more fun to go into work.

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Speaker 2: I get excited to go to work, but I feel

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Speaker 2: like it would also be super risky.

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Speaker 1: Yeah it is, I guess. I actually wanted to look

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Speaker 1: up how many people have data a coworker. Do you

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Speaker 1: know what the number is?

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Speaker 2: Surely like forty percent.

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Speaker 1: It's half. Half of people who responded said they've actually

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Speaker 1: dated a co worker, which was way higher than I expected.

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Speaker 2: Most of them successful.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I'd chat gptat it's me you know

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Speaker 1: two seconds. But at bigger companies there are actually guidelines

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Speaker 1: around this, and I think especially in like a post

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Speaker 1: me too world, probably more companies have guidelines and they're

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Speaker 1: probably a little bit more clear. So at Google, for example,

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Speaker 1: if you were having a relationship with someone, you actually

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Speaker 1: had to declare it if they were in your team

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Speaker 1: or if you were in the same reporting line. And

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Speaker 1: if you were in the same reporting line, that wasn't

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Speaker 1: actually allowed to be a thing, so you either had

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Speaker 1: to change teams or you couldn't have the relationship. But

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Speaker 1: there was actually like a formal process for it. Kind

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Speaker 1: of thing.

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Speaker 2: What if you didn't know what your relationship even, what

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Speaker 2: if you're like in a situationship that would actually be

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Speaker 2: good for people who are scared of situationship of dating,

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Speaker 2: you have to be like, well, we have to confirm

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Speaker 2: it to the workplace.

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Speaker 1: So true, maybe you should just be as a process

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Speaker 1: around this year. I think that kind of leads to

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Speaker 1: some of my points around timing. But the other thing

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Speaker 1: I think was really funny. When I was working in

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Speaker 1: New York, there was a creative agency who actually had

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Speaker 1: a benefits policy where if two co workers got engaged,

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Speaker 1: they would pay for the wedding. Oh I know, how

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Speaker 1: good is that insane? Yes, it's because they were based

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Speaker 1: in like Colorado, and they really wanted to attract good talents,

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Speaker 1: so like, if you move here and you hook up with,

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Speaker 1: you know, someone else who's in the team, then we'll

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Speaker 1: pay for the wedding. I thought that was pretty cool.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, that Christmas part is to be wild totally.

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Speaker 1: But you know what you actually do, like, is it okay?

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Speaker 1: Is weird? I think one just make sure you do

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Speaker 1: understand your company policy around it. But to your point

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Speaker 1: around timing and sort of like the flow of communication,

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Speaker 1: so it can obviously be so much fun, but then

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Speaker 1: you know at some point people are going to find

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Speaker 1: out or you're going to need to tell people maybe,

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Speaker 1: and like, do you want to be in control of

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Speaker 1: that flow of information or do you want it to

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Speaker 1: happen for you? Yeah, what do you think?

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Speaker 2: Well, that's so true. I also feel like there's no

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Speaker 2: way it wouldn't affect my work, especially if it doesn't

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Speaker 2: work out and then you're just seeing this person every

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Speaker 2: day who like you've both breaken each other's heart maybe,

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Speaker 2: and I think that would just be really hard, especially

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Speaker 2: if you.

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Speaker 1: Love your job. Yeah, I think you have to definitely

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Speaker 1: think about your reputation because it's like it's a funny thing, right,

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Speaker 1: it's like your personal life. It really shouldn't be anything

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Speaker 1: to do with work, but it kind of is because

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Speaker 1: it can change the way that you're actually showing up

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Speaker 1: at work. And I think maybe even possibly for women,

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Speaker 1: it can affect your reputation more than men. I'm not sure.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's different now in a post me to world.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's very hard for men. But once you know

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Speaker 1: that it is serious, maybe have a think about letting

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Speaker 1: a manager know and just showing up and saying like, Hey,

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Speaker 1: this isn't actually going to affect me and my role,

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Speaker 1: I'm committed whatever it is, so maybe think about that.

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Speaker 1: But I do think it's tricky if you're just dating

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Speaker 1: someone or hooking up, like.

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Speaker 2: I would say, either a relationship or nothing. Yeah, no situationships,

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Speaker 2: no casual sex. Sorry, I know I sound like a nanner,

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Speaker 2: But don't do it. It's not worth it. So this

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Speaker 2: next question comes in from Sarah. Here's what she says.

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Speaker 1: I just graduated from UNI and I'm looking for an

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Speaker 1: entry level job. But all the jobs want someone with

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Speaker 1: experience and I.

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Speaker 2: Don't have any because I just left UNI.

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Speaker 1: I'm so confused. What do I do?

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Speaker 2: Oh, Sarah. I feel like, especially with young people coming

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Speaker 2: into the workforce, it feels like every single generation gets

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Speaker 2: hit with the same obstacle. And I got hit with

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Speaker 2: it as well when I joined the workforce full time

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Speaker 2: straight after UNI. Because every job I went to apply

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Speaker 2: for they just had these requirements that I was nowhere

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Speaker 2: close to meeting. Like it was always three to six

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Speaker 2: years of experience, or you had to have this certain degree,

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Speaker 2: or you had to do this. No one told me

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Speaker 2: that I could still apply even though I didn't meet

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Speaker 2: all the requirements. And it was only when so I

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Speaker 2: was actually scouted for this job. I started as a

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Speaker 2: social media assistant. HR actually messaged me on LinkedIn and

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Speaker 2: was like, Hey, we'd love for you to apply to

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Speaker 2: this role. And I looked at the job description and

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Speaker 2: I was like, I don't meet any of these, like

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Speaker 2: any of these at all. And I told my mom

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Speaker 2: and my mom was like, yeah, you probably won't get it,

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Speaker 2: but you've never interviewed before, so why didn't you just

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Speaker 2: give it a go? And I was like okay, and

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Speaker 2: then I got the job. No way, And I just

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Speaker 2: hate that so many especially I feel like it's mainly

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Speaker 2: young women who if they don't meet like one hundred

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Speaker 2: percent of the requirement, they just won't do it.

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Speaker 1: I totally agreat. I think there's this thing where you

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Speaker 1: think you don't have the skills and experience but you

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Speaker 1: actually do. So don't think about what you don't have,

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Speaker 1: think about what you do have, but it's sort of

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Speaker 1: about how you package it up and showcase it interesting.

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Speaker 1: So I remember this so deeply as well. So I

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Speaker 1: grew up in regional New South Wales. My dad was

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Speaker 1: a trade my mom is a preschool teacher. I knew

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Speaker 1: no one from the world of business. I go to

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Speaker 1: Sydney Union get a marketing degree. I feel like I

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Speaker 1: have no practical skills on knowledge. I went for one internship,

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Speaker 1: didn't get it. I was like, that was embarrassing. I'm

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Speaker 1: never trying that again. And I just remember feeling so lost.

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Speaker 1: I was working at a bar, met this customer and

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Speaker 1: she worked in marketing. I remember leaving my side of

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Speaker 1: the bar and just clutching her hands and being like,

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Speaker 1: help me. Can I take you for coffee? Can I

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Speaker 1: learn about your Like? I just don't know what to do.

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Speaker 1: There's two things that I want to say. If I

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Speaker 1: was sort of like starting out again twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 1: I'm in this death loop of no experience but can't

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Speaker 1: get the job, need the job to get the experience.

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Speaker 1: Here's what I'm going to say. One, go and meet

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Speaker 1: people who are doing the job that you want to

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Speaker 1: do and just ask them, you know, what's your job,

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Speaker 1: Like what are the skills that you need for someone

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Speaker 1: who doesn't have experience in that actual job? Like what

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Speaker 1: are some of the transferable skills? And what you're going

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Speaker 1: to find comes up all the time is things like

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Speaker 1: project management, writing events does, like knowing how to use

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Speaker 1: camb but whatever. There's all these kind of skills that

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Speaker 1: you actually do have you know, have you worked in retail,

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Speaker 1: have you trained other people up before in a team?

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Speaker 1: Do you have sales skills? So there's probably skills that

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Speaker 1: you do have, and then it's just about how you

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Speaker 1: actually showcase those. So what I think people need this

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Speaker 1: is not about just having like a LinkedIn profile kind

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Speaker 1: of like build something or make something, create something that

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Speaker 1: can live a little bit online to show that you've

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Speaker 1: got these skills and you can do that outside your job.

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Speaker 1: So I'll give you some examples. Maybe it's like you

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Speaker 1: build your own sub stack and you have like your

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Speaker 1: subsat newsletter. Maybe it's like you start a little online

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Speaker 1: community and you do meetups and then you're like having

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Speaker 1: some little place online where you show what you're doing there.

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Speaker 1: Like maybe it is that you're involved in clubs and

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Speaker 1: societies at UNI and we're doing event organization whatever. You

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Speaker 1: need to be doing some stuff that shows you know,

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Speaker 1: you can manage your project, you can like do things,

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Speaker 1: and there needs to be a place online where people

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Speaker 1: can go and see that. And I think just like

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Speaker 1: packaging up and showcasing some of that stuff, you can

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Speaker 1: do that regardless of whether you have a job or not.

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Speaker 1: And then meeting people, point them to that and show

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Speaker 1: them that, and then I think that's the better way

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Speaker 1: to do it.

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Speaker 2: That's so smart. Also, I think what's really important is

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Speaker 2: figuring out the values of the company that you kind

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Speaker 2: of want to work for and what they appreciate. Like

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Speaker 2: here at Mummia, we really appreciate creativity. And I remember

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Speaker 2: one of my colleagues and this when I was working

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Speaker 2: in the social media team, Mattie King. She got her

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Speaker 2: job because she created an Instagram page saying why Mummy

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Speaker 2: should hire me? And she did like all these posts

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Speaker 2: about her whole life story and we were like immediately yes,

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Speaker 2: Like it was just so Mumma Mia, and was so

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Speaker 2: perfect and she was brilliant and she nailed the interview.

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Speaker 1: It was so good. I absolutely love that, Like massive inspiration.

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Speaker 1: I actually got my job at Google because I had

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Speaker 1: a music blog. Like you think that's nothing to do

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Speaker 1: with tech marketing, right, but it actually is because the

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Speaker 1: transferable skill there is creativity and like being able to

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Speaker 1: create a brand. So I had this little music blog.

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Speaker 1: It was called the Perfect Five. It was just five

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Speaker 1: songs every week. That was really cute. This is like

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Speaker 1: back in the day, cook.

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Speaker 2: I find it, we need to post it on the

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Speaker 2: business instead.

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Speaker 1: Some screenshots of it and we will post it on

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Speaker 1: the on the ground for sure. But I remember like

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Speaker 1: showing this in the interview and talking about how I

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Speaker 1: was really resourceful because they were like, did you pay

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Speaker 1: someone to build this? And this is back in the

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Speaker 1: day when it was pretty hard. It's like, no, I

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Speaker 1: didn't pay someone. I like traded some of my friends.

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Speaker 1: You know, I did some stuff with them, they did this,

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Speaker 1: So they're like, oh, you're resourceful. You know you've got

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Speaker 1: this done for free. You've got influence because you're getting

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Speaker 1: friends to do stuff, and you've got creativity. So all

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Speaker 1: these transferable skills that I was showcasing just because I

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Speaker 1: had a music bog and it wasn't even that successful.

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Speaker 1: It's like, no, I had people following me, but it

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Speaker 1: was just like, you know, you've got something online where

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Speaker 1: you're showing people like I can do something.

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Speaker 2: That's so good, So just like get creative with it.

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Speaker 2: Just put yourself out there and yes, yah, don't rely

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Speaker 2: on your LinkedIn profile. Actually like message people on LinkedIn,

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Speaker 2: Like follow the people that you want to work with,

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Speaker 2: the work for and message them and just be like

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Speaker 2: Can I take you that for a coffee?

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Speaker 1: One hundred percent? Can I give you one more thing

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Speaker 1: that I would do? Yeah, I was doing this now.

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Speaker 1: I would find people who have the jobs I want.

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Speaker 1: I would offer to take my coffee every I just

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Speaker 1: like a fifteen minute chat on the phone if you've

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Speaker 1: got a vibe with them. I would actually offer, can

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Speaker 1: I shadow you when you go to industry events and

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Speaker 1: like write up some insights of what you learned at

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Speaker 1: that event and post for LinkedIn for you or a

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Speaker 1: lot of people struggle with having nicely designed slides, right,

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Speaker 1: so I would offer, Hey, I'm pretty handy on camber.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna design some slide templates for you to use

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Speaker 1: for your presentations. And I would like sort of do

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Speaker 1: some stuff for people to show you've got skills and

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Speaker 1: build a relationship like that.

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Speaker 2: That's so smart. Okay, So we're coming up to a break.

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Speaker 2: So after the break, we're going to be talking about

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Speaker 2: a very serious question that involves my all important lunch break.

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Speaker 2: So this next question comes from Bridget and she actually

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Speaker 2: sent this through our Instagram DMS. You can follow us

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Speaker 2: on Instagram at bisby Mama Mia. We do heaps of

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Speaker 2: posts on there and please slide into our DMS with

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Speaker 2: any questions you have. She wanted to know what are

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Speaker 2: some reasonable things she could do during her lunch break? Like,

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Speaker 2: she wanted to know, is it okay to take her

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Speaker 2: our lunch break to go to the gym or to

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Speaker 2: go shopping? So what do you reckon?

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Speaker 1: Well, bridget on my lunch break. I used to go

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Speaker 1: and get botox.

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Speaker 2: That's smart.

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Speaker 1: I mean the short answer is it's your lunch break,

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Speaker 1: so do whatever the hell you want with it. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: there's some caveats to this, so yeah, like at bigger companies,

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Speaker 1: they might actually have guidance around this. You might say

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Speaker 1: something in your contract about how long your lunch break is,

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Speaker 1: and you know it's going to be different with different

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Speaker 1: roles if you're doing shift work or whatever. But let's

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Speaker 1: just say like a normal office job, right, It's really

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Speaker 1: a question around team norms and company norms and how

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Speaker 1: much you have your shit together. If you are doing

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Speaker 1: your job and you've got your shit together, you should

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Speaker 1: be able to do whatever you want with that time.

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Speaker 1: I want to rebrand the lunch hour, the lunch lunchtime, right,

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Speaker 1: I want to rebrand this. I love a rebrand Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not your lunch time. It is your reset time,

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Speaker 1: and so I think it's a really important part actually

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Speaker 1: of the day. We can't just work for eight hours straight,

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Speaker 1: like you actually need that time in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the day to properly reset. So it's your reset time

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Speaker 1: and you should be protecting it. And people are going

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Speaker 1: to try and steal that time from you, and I

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Speaker 1: think you should protect it. Just a couple of things

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Speaker 1: proactively communicate around like that is your time. So I

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Speaker 1: would always make sure and I would tell my team

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Speaker 1: just like block your lunch hour out in your calendar,

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Speaker 1: and I would even set mine. There's a thing you

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Speaker 1: can do in Gmail where you set it to out

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Speaker 1: of office, so it would just order a decline of

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Speaker 1: tract to book meetings over it.

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Speaker 2: But let me write that down auto the client.

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Speaker 1: That was the culture we had to google. Maybe you

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Speaker 1: don't try that if that's not you.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't going to call our producers out, but we

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Speaker 2: are recording this at twelve forty five people.

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Speaker 1: It really is I think just around kind of proactively communicating,

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Speaker 1: and if you're a manager, I think you should be

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Speaker 1: having conversations with your team around like what is normal

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Speaker 1: to do on your lunch break, right. I remember there

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Speaker 1: was a manager at Google who actually used to just

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Speaker 1: put gon surfing kind of thing and block that time

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Speaker 1: if it wasn't even in this launch break. But the

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Speaker 1: reason that worked is if you proactively communicate like I'm

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Speaker 1: out of the office at this time, he's obviously getting

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Speaker 1: his work done, he's on top of your shit. You

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Speaker 1: sort of should be in control of your own time.

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Speaker 1: You have to think about your reputation and how you're

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Speaker 1: showing up and not to be taking the piss. So

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Speaker 1: one thing to watch out for is I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of people will say, can I eat my lunch

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Speaker 1: at my desk during my lunch hour and then take

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Speaker 1: off like two to three pm to go and do yoga?

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Speaker 1: And like, technically you should if you have a conversation

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Speaker 1: with your manager and they're cool with that and like

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Speaker 1: there's no other important meetings, and technically that's okay. But

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Speaker 1: I think there can be a bit of creep sometimes

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Speaker 1: where it's like you kind of aren't really doing your

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Speaker 1: work during that lunchtime because you're eating, and then you're

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Speaker 1: just taking off this time as well, and it kind

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Speaker 1: of interior afternoon.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I think it's dependent on the person. Are

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Speaker 2: you able to question do you have to be transparent

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Speaker 2: of what you're doing in your lunch break? Like what

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Speaker 2: if I want to go see my therapist.

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Speaker 1: Not need to tell anyone. I mean it is your

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Speaker 1: lunch Again, it comes around to companies and teams should

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Speaker 1: be talking about this and check you contract. I'm not

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Speaker 1: an HI expert, so check your contract. But you shouldn't

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Speaker 1: have to tell anyone what you're doing in your lunch hour,

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Speaker 1: like that is your time. The one thing that you

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Speaker 1: should be doing is letting people know that you're not contactable,

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Speaker 1: so like because sometimes people need stuff right or like

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Speaker 1: it's really hard to book time with people into book

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Speaker 1: meetings if you're not having that in your calendar and

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Speaker 1: someone does see that as a free slot and then

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Speaker 1: they want to book something there and you're like, actually,

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Speaker 1: I was planning to go and do like a hairdresser appointment.

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Speaker 1: It can just be really hard for people, So block

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Speaker 1: it out in advance. I would always have that hour

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Speaker 1: blocked out in my calendar and yeah, just communicate around

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Speaker 1: if someone tries to book a meeting and that you

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Speaker 1: can just say like, hey, this is my reset time

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Speaker 1: is this meeting important, Can we do it another time or.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, lunchtime's out, reset times in.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for helping us clear our

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Speaker 2: little biz in box. If you have a work question,

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Speaker 2: please send it our way. You'll find exactly how to

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Speaker 2: do that in our show notes, or of course you

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Speaker 2: can always slide into our DM so always open for you.

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Speaker 1: If you missed it earlier. This week, Michelle and I

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Speaker 1: taught you how to be more productive while doing less

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Speaker 1: at work.

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Speaker 2: It was so good. Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: Head back into the feed to hear to ultimate productivity.

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Speaker 2: We will be back in your ears next week.

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Speaker 1: Bye bye