WEBVTT - Seize the Bébé // A session on sleep regressions 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:04.240 Welcome to the Sees the Ya Podcast. Busy and happy, 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:06.880 but tired and worn, just some of the feelings when 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:10.560 baby is born. There's magic, elation, there's chaos and tears, 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:13.240 but everyone goes through the same hopes and fears. So 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:16.239 this is a segment we hope helps you feel supported 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:19.360 and valid. The mum Juggles reel the good, bad, the ugly, 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:22.000 the best and worst day. It's part of the journey 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:25.520 to Seize the Babe. I'm Sarah Davidson, a lawyer turned 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:27.760 f entrepreneur who hung up the suits and heels to 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:30.560 co found Mata Maiden a Macha milk Bar, become a 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:33.640 TV and radio presenter, and of course host The Sees 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:36.680 the Ya Podcast. This year, I added motherhood to that list, 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:38.559 which is the best job I've ever had with our 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:41.800 beautiful baby Teddy, and this segment was designed to house 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:45.240 all the conversations we've been having about parenthood. We'll still 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:47.800 do our regular episodes, and just like real life, it's 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:51.480 a constant balance between our parent identity and everything else. 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:54.160 I hope you guys enjoy this segment as much as 0:00:54.200 --> 0:01:03.200 I have enjoyed creating it. Lovely neighborhood, we are back 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:06.319 with the third installment of Seize the Baby, on a 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:09.759 topic that's already been the most requested in my dms, 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:12.720 and that was actually before this segment even came up. 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:14.680 I think it might be the reason that I thought 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:17.280 of the idea to move some of these answers to 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:21.200 podcast form because I had been screenshotting AUNT. I answered 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:23.600 one person's question in as much detail as I could, 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:25.560 and then I just couldn't repeat that over and over 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:27.520 again because it was I tried to put as much 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:30.640 detail as possible, and I ended up just literally copying 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:33.640 and pasting sending out these terrible screenshots of my answers, 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:36.800 and I still felt like there wasn't enough real estate 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:39.679 in single story frames to cover everything that I wanted 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:42.000 to try and say to be reassuring or to just 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:45.120 share our experience. I felt like it really deserved a full, 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:47.840 proper ted talk length episode. So that's what's going to 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:50.400 come in your ears. And I also think it's a 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:53.280 topic that sparked a level of desperation in me for 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:56.480 information that I have never experienced before. And that is 0:01:56.520 --> 0:02:01.280 saying something because new parenthood, you're always for information about 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:02.920 what to do and so to be able to pick 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:06.600 one thing that sparked the most desperation, like that's saying something. 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:10.400 We're talking, of course, about the elusive and emotionally charged 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:15.680 topic of sleep, and particularly the dreaded sleep regression or 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:21.760 regressions as supposedly joy there are several Even within parenthood, 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:24.840 where most topics are already a bit emotional or judge, 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:28.280 sleep seems to be especially sensitive, and I think that's 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:31.440 often because you're usually only talking about it if you're 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:36.679 not getting enough, which is never anyone's best version of themselves. So, 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:39.880 as with all of these episodes, a big disclaimer to start, 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:44.040 this is all anecdotal. It's not an exhaustive, fully researched 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:48.240 guide to sleep. I have no professional experience or scientific backing. 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:51.000 I'm just answering your questions about what we did, and 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:54.240 there are many sleep specialists or pediatricians or experts who 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:56.600 you can turn to if you need actual advice. I'm 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:58.560 not trying to give any advice. I've just been asked 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:00.600 the question a lot of times and want to give 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:03.480 as much detail as I can. Every baby and family 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:05.640 is different, though, and what worked for us this time 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:09.440 might not work next time. But having said that, when 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:11.639 I was in the depths of it. I didn't care 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:14.480 about disclaimers. I didn't care that anyone was saying this 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:16.040 might not work for you. I still wanted to know 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:18.679 what everyone else was doing, just because, Yeah, like I said, 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:20.920 you're so desperate for information on what might help. So 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:23.320 I'll just lay out what we did. But I just 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:26.280 want to remind everyone that this area is very specific 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:29.200 to you and also to the age of your baby too. Yeah, 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:32.840 it's very specific to so many factors. For context, I'm 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:35.480 talking about our experience getting through the so called four 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:38.040 month regression, which is the first major one that gets 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:41.960 talked about, and Teddy was born two weeks early. This 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:44.920 hit us almost exactly at four months and two weeks, 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:48.880 so at his perfectly adjusted age of four months, he's 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:53.400 so punctual that boy, oh my goodness. Look, we've barely started, 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.720 and I already again have to add a little note 0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:00.160 that there's already some division around the term regression. So 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:03.000 before we even start talking about sleep reggressions, there's some 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:06.800 division around whether they exist, and secondly, there's some division 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:11.640 around if they do exist, are they called progressions not regressions. 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:14.280 I'm going to call it a regression, because that's just 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:17.040 the most common description when you're googling, when you're doing 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:19.960 your own research, and I did feel like Teddy's sleep 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:23.440 went backwards. But I do appreciate the positive slant of 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:26.279 the name progression, and it comes from the idea that 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:29.640 the sleep disruptions that happen during a regression often happened 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:32.120 because your baby's learning a new skill, so they're actually 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:34.960 going forwards, not backwards. So it's kind of putting a 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:38.720 positive on something that feels otherwise quite negative. So I 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:41.719 do appreciate that that's a really positive, yay kind of 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:43.440 way to look at it. But I'll just still call 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.080 it a regression because it's easier. As to those who 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:49.039 say they don't exist. I'm not sure on the exact science, 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:51.680 but as I understand it, at least for the four 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:55.800 month regression, there's a big shift in the way baby sleep. 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:59.400 It's just some babies don't show a disruption or any 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:03.520 symptom in that shift. That's how I understand it. So 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:06.239 I think when people say they don't exist, they don't 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:09.839 mean that, like I think all babies do necessarily go 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:13.200 through the shift. I think just some babies don't show 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:16.320 any symptoms. So in that sense, they don't exist. I'm 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:18.960 not one hundred percent sure if that's the way that 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:21.599 kind of school of thought comes about. But for me anyway, 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:24.640 there was enough material out there for me to personally 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:27.960 accept that they happen, and then our experience was very 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:31.560 textbook on all the symptoms of the so called four 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:34.640 month regression. So to me, it exists. Each to their own. 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:37.400 Please go and do other research on the different terms 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:39.200 and all that stuff, but I'm just going to continue 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:41.720 as if, you know, treating it as if the four 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:44.640 month regression is a thing, because it was fast. So 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:48.479 for some more background, there are a few main regressions 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:50.839 that are talked about, with four being the first, and 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:53.440 then I think there's sort of eight, twelve, eighteen months. 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:55.240 There might be a few more or a few less, 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:57.200 but they seemed to be the main ones that came 0:05:57.279 --> 0:05:59.960 up when I was looking at everything from I understand, 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:03.279 and the four months regression is when a baby goes 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:07.000 from newborn sleep, which has no real cycles. It's just 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:10.520 kind of whenever. They don't have Ciccaian rhythms, they don't 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:13.159 really know day or night. It's just chunks of sleep, 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:16.560 and that tends to sort of improve and get longer 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:19.640 as they develop a little bit more, and then they 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:22.920 shift from that newborn sleep to cycles of sleep, which 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:26.279 is what adults have. We sleep in cycles. But what 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:30.360 happens when there are symptoms is that they can't link 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.159 those cycles. Again. I don't know what the actual science is, 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:35.360 but that's how I understand it from a kind of 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:38.320 lay person's view, that they move from not having cycles 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:41.440 to having cycles, and then in between each cycle whatever 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:44.280 wakes them up, and then they can't get back to 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:46.680 sleep themselves. They can't kind of link those cycles into 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:49.599 big chunks of sleep. So that means going from longer 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:53.520 sleeps to waking up very often, which is exactly what 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:56.120 happened to Teddy. And that kind of tends to be 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:58.839 the main description of what a sleep regression is is 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:02.080 just disrupted sleep. And I'm not sure that I realized 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:04.719 initially for us, because it was masked by jet lag. 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:06.920 You guys might remember we took Teddy to Italy and 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:09.240 we came back exactly on his sort of four and 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:14.200 a half month marker, but he went from sleeping for 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:17.800 eight to ten hours in a row, and that was 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:20.080 like a dream. I didn't even realize how good we 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:22.800 had it. But he'd just been inching closer and closer 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:25.000 to eight to ten hours in a row without any wakeups. 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:29.960 He went from that consistently to waking every hour to 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:34.640 one and a half hours overnight, which continued well past 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:36.440 jet lags. So at the start, I was like, Okay, cool, 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:39.360 we've obviously taken him overseas. He's changed complete time zones 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:42.120 and weather and everything. It's disrupted. That makes sense, big 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:44.120 changes to routine. But then it went on for weeks 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:47.960 and weeks and weeks, so I eventually realized, obviously it 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:50.800 must be something else. And that's when I personally accepted 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:53.200 that the four months regression is a thing and it 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:55.960 was happening to us. I thought it would resolve naturally. 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:58.480 I think that's kind of you know, you give things 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:02.160 a bit of a chance before intervening to resolve themselves, 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:04.840 maybe as he would get more used to his routine 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:07.200 and got more used to being home, But it didn't. 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:10.520 It continued, I would say for maybe six weeks before 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:13.640 I sort of actually thought about what to do. I 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:15.680 didn't even you kind of almost don't even realize that 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:20.120 something has become such a thing, and then my approach was, yeah, 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:22.440 during that time, was just do anything to help him 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:24.960 get back to sleep. When he would wake up every hour, 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:26.440 I thought, well, he's not going to go back to 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:28.600 sleep himself. I need to help him get back to sleep, 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:30.480 especially in the middle of the night. You're just like, 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:33.160 I'll do anything. So I started a habit at that 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:35.200 time of feeding him back to sleep. But then I 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:38.200 was feeding him so often that then he'd wet through 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:41.560 his nappies, and then his appetite would change during his 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:44.400 daytime feeding because I was feeding him too much at night, 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:47.720 and so many things get thrown out of kilter during 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:50.920 that sort of sleep disruption. It becomes such a hard cycle. 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:52.800 I won't talk about it again too much here because 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:54.760 I've already spoken about it in a lot in the 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:58.320 Juggle episode, which was with my dear friend Genevieve Day, 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:00.320 so you can go back to that one. But yeah, 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:02.200 this is the period I was talking about where I 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:04.840 really started to spiral and had the hardest time I've 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:06.880 had so far in the parenting journey because I just 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:10.960 wasn't getting enough sleep and it affects everything, your physical health, 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:15.080 your mental health, and I mean every hour for weeks 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:19.120 on end is really quite brutal, and I really really 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:20.840 found it was the first time I felt like I 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:23.199 was spiraling out of control. So if you are going 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:26.640 through a sleep regression, it's you're so worried about your 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:28.839 child and helping them get back to sleep, but it's 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:30.880 also that your life kind of feels like it's spiraling 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:32.880 out of control. And one thing that I got told 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:35.680 a lot by so many mums who were so reassuring 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:39.480 to me during that time was sleep deprivation is used 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:42.520 as a form of torture. It is literally not the 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:46.040 state that humans are supposed to exist in. It's not 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:48.560 when you're going to be operating at your best. Like 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:52.200 often I think there's a comparison between being sleep deprived 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:55.280 and driving under the influence of alcohol, Like it affects 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:58.520 everything about your thinking, your mood, your everything. So it 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:01.760 was a really, really hard time. And yeah, you can 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:03.880 go back to that episode to listen to sort of 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:06.760 the emotional side effects of what was happening, But here 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:09.840 I'm just focusing on, like physically what was going on. 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:12.920 So yeah, we got into a really difficult cycle physically 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:16.960 and mentally. And it's really interesting because I think a 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:19.560 regression is often the first time, or it was for us. 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:22.320 The four months regression anyway, was the first time that 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:24.480 we started to think about sleep is something that you 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:27.720 have to do anything about. Like before I just noticed 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:30.400 Teddy was sleepy, I put him down, and then I 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:33.160 waited until he woke up. And of course it's you know, 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:35.439 the sleep deprivation is hard at the beginning because they're 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:37.800 waking up a lot, and you know, their little babies, 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:40.840 and but then it kind of improves bit by bit 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:44.200 and then yeah, you're just kind of going following their lead. 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:45.880 But I never really thought that I had to do 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:48.440 anything about it. But then when there starts to be 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:52.880 this disruption, this constant, unsustainable disruption, it was the first 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.079 time I thought, oh, I actually have to proactively do 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:59.480 something about his sleep to fix it, so to speak. 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:02.160 And the hardest part when you get to that junction in 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:05.200 your parent or journey, is well, what do you actually 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:08.160 do to fix it? Like what is the action that 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:11.320 you can take? So here is where it gets really 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:15.800 hard because it becomes so personal to you. And basically 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:19.120 there is an entire spectrum of options on how to 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:21.400 approach sleep when your little one is struggling with it. 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:24.560 And this is only you know, at this four month 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:27.440 regression age, we haven't gone through anything further than that. 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:31.199 So this is again even more specific to this particular 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:34.080 regression versus others. I have no experience on any that 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:36.280 are further down the track, but I mean, even with 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.000 the basics of setting up your baby for sleep, generally, 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:41.960 it all depends on your personal preference on whether you 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:44.480 room share, whether you bed share, whether you have a 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:46.840 snoop whether you don't, whether you have the heat or on, 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:50.240 do use sleep sacks, do you swaddle like There's just 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:54.360 so many variables even with the environment that your baby 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:57.920 asleep in. So for this episode, I'm going to assume 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:00.360 that you've already covered those basics and chose and what's 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:03.720 right for you in terms of white noise machines, blocking 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:07.760 out the light in the room, the wind down routine, sleep, clothing, temperature, 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.800 the room setup, all of that, because that information is 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:14.600 rarely available everywhere and there are just too many variables 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:16.440 to kind of cover. But just if you are having 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:18.720 trouble with sleep, think about those basics of setting up 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:21.520 the room and the environment for the most positive sleep 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:24.840 that you can. For me, in this time. My desperation 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:28.000 came from having ticked all of those off and still 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:31.280 not getting anywhere, still kind of having this constant waking 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:34.000 up and knowing that it wasn't for any of those reasons. 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:37.840 That's where my kind of research here came about. But 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:39.280 do go on research all the other things that you 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:41.760 can do if you're not already doing those. There's also 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:43.240 a lot to think about in terms of how many 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:46.480 hours each day your baby needs overall of sleep, which 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:49.360 again varies so much, and then what's over or undertied 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:51.280 for one baby is different for another. So there are 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:55.559 all those factors at play in terms of helping them 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:58.120 get the best sleep. But I'll just focus on the 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:02.000 actual techniques to help help with fixing the sleep progression 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:04.520 once all those things are sorted, and then you're still 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:06.360 getting a no dice, because yeah, that's the question that 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:10.239 I get asked the most. So the spectrum of options 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:15.360 at one end there is do nothing, just keep going 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:19.160 as you are, and that involves what I had been 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:22.520 doing the whole time. It's not doing nothing, but it's 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:26.600 like kind of not taking on an actual approach to 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:29.160 fixing the sleep. It's just getting them back to sleep 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:32.360 in the moment, So that involves yeah, doing whatever helps 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:35.880 them get back to sleep, feeding them to sleep, co sleeping, 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:39.760 whatever helps in the moment get you and your child 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:42.360 back to sleep. That's kind of the do nothing end 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:45.240 of the spectrum, and I think there's a lot of 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:47.600 judgment in that area. I mean, like I said, most 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.160 areas of parents are to judge it, but there's even 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:53.080 more judgment about you shouldn't be feeding your baby to sleep, 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:55.800 they should be falling asleep on their own. That phrase 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:58.679 put them down drowsy but awake. There's a lot of 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:03.079 controversy around coast. I think it's widely misunderstood. I think 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:08.560 there's been so much like centuries of healthy co sleeping 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:11.679 in other cultures, Like there's yeah, it's very loaded area 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:13.640 and I won't go into it there, but at least 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:16.160 for the purposes of this episode, there is one end 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:18.040 of the spectrum where you just do anything to help 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:21.080 your baby get back to sleep, without sort of teaching 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:24.400 them anything or fixing anything. You're just doing. You're helping them, 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:28.400 like you're kind of doing the putting them to sleep. 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:32.760 Above all, I'll say, if it works for you and 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:36.920 doesn't upset your balance. It's absolutely fine to just stay 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.720 in that space. There's nothing wrong with feeding your baby 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:43.200 to sleep every hour, Like, if that's absolutely your prerogative, 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:45.680 if it doesn't affect your ability to function or enjoy 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:48.600 your life, then absolutely go and do that. I think 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:51.000 a lot of the literature now that's trying to say 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:54.520 you don't need to fix that situation is Yeah, if 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:57.800 it doesn't bother you and you're okay, and you know 0:14:57.840 --> 0:14:59.680 it's not taking away from your job or your mental 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:03.800 health or whatever, then you absolutely can refeed to sleep, 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:06.280 co sleep, do all those things. The only reason that 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:08.680 I needed a solution to stop that, which I had 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:11.240 been doing for sort of six to eight weeks, is 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:13.400 because I got to the point where the sleep deprivation 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:17.880 of me helping him to sleep every cycle was just 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.800 taking such a heavy toll on my life. But I 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:23.240 did definitely continue on that way for at least a 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:25.680 few weeks. And I think the other thing is that 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:28.120 there's so much information out there that sometimes it's actually 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:30.600 harder to make a decision and easier just to keep struggling. 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:33.400 So I knew from four or five weeks that it 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:38.280 was unsustainable. I couldn't work and function and be healthy 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:40.040 and be a good mum. If I was waking up 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:42.280 that often, I was getting resentful, I was crabby, I 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:44.960 was tired. I just was in a haze all the time. 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:47.320 But I didn't know what else to do, so you 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:50.160 just kind of keep struggling on. So yeah, it lasted 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:52.880 again like another month before I could even process the 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:55.520 information about what to do. So yeah, I think at 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:57.880 that end of the spectrum, there's often you're sitting in 0:15:57.920 --> 0:15:59.160 it because you don't know what else to do. But 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:01.120 if you choose to sit in it because it works 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:03.560 for you, then absolutely that's fine. But for me, it 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:06.200 inevitably got too hard, So that's when I started looking 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:09.760 at other options. At the complete other end of the 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:13.680 spectrum on kind of fixing the sleep is what's called 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:18.640 sleep school, and that is often a residential program where 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:22.200 you kind of check in with your baby, and that's 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:26.120 the end goal is fix the sleep disruption or the regression, 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:28.160 or if it's outside of a regression, it's just to 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:31.400 fix the sleep generally and teach them to sleep. If 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:33.600 it's inside of aggresson, it's obviously to fix the regression. 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:36.080 There's also I mean again, there's also a lot of 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:38.320 judgment at that end of the spectrum. There's a lot 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:40.880 of judgment everywhere, but at that end of the spectrum, 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:43.480 I think the main controversy is kind of around the 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:46.320 idea that they're often associated sleep schools are often associated 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:50.040 with crying it out, kind of leaving the baby overnight 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:53.880 to just cry without you intervening. There's a lot of Again, 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:56.280 these aren't my personal views, this is just sort of 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:59.680 what seems to be the bulk of material out there. 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.440 Judgment comes from the idea that you know, your baby 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:04.280 might feel abandonment and all that kind of stuff. So 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:06.600 I won't go into the moral or value based discussions 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:10.520 because again, it all so heavily depends on your personal values, 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:13.640 on your priorities. I'm just laying out the factual options 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:15.480 in case it's helpful for you to know. But yeah, 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:17.840 at the other end of the spectrum, there's sleep school. 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:20.600 I know many people who have done this. Actually, when 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:23.119 I first said that I was really having trouble with 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:26.639 Teddy sleep, the answer I got, like the recommendation I 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:29.280 got the most was for people having done one of 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:31.640 the residential programs and saying that it has really set 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:34.640 them and their family up well from a place of 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:38.040 having really really struggled. So yeah, lots of people have 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:40.119 done this and swear by it each to their own. 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:44.159 For me, it wasn't quite in line with the approach 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:47.960 I wanted to take, but that rapidly changes as you 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:51.120 get further into sleep deprivation as well, so you kind 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:53.200 of as you get more and more desperate, your views 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:55.760 on things definitely change. And yeah, you just can't judge 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:58.160 what any decision anyone else makes, so I did always 0:17:58.200 --> 0:17:59.879 have it up my sleeve and we live very c 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:03.840 by to one of the sleep schools that's really well recommended, 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:08.479 So at the time I wanted to try other things first, 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:11.840 but it was definitely still always kind of in my mind. 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:14.120 It may still be in future. Again, I can't rule 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:16.480 that out either, But if you did want to research this, 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:18.959 A few options that I got recommended a lot in 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:22.359 Melbourne at least were Masada or Waverley Private. I'm not 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:24.119 sure for the other states, but you can go and 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.040 research that. And that's also it depends on you personally 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:31.080 as well, if you don't have the physical or mental 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:33.920 capacity to do any kind of sleep training at home, 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:37.240 or it depends how many other children you have, and anyway, 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:38.840 it depends on so many different things. But that's the 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:42.400 other end of the spectrum. In the middle is a 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:46.719 whole range of different approaches to I think the middle 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:50.200 bit between nothing and sleep school is called sleep training, 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:54.800 where you help your child with sleep, and it has 0:18:55.000 --> 0:19:00.760 varying degrees of sort of strictness or varying degrees of intensity, 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:04.159 so to speak. And there are so many options. Like 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:06.480 I almost didn't even do this episode because I was like, 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:09.880 it's just too hard to explain everything because there's variables off, 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:14.320 Like the chart of options is just too drastic. But again, 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:17.320 I just got sick of copying and pasting my terrible answer, 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:18.840 so I thought I could if I could be as 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:21.280 comprehensive as I can for anyone who's listening, who's at 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:23.320 the bit of her journey where she just can't process 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:25.600 it and need someone to just lay out the map. 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.600 Hopefully this is somewhat helpful. So there are so many 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:33.560 options in this kind of sleep training bracket. If you 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:37.840 don't feel like you can do it unsupported, there are 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:41.520 a lot of in home consultants who do this as 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:43.879 their job, and they can kind of come and do 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:45.520 if you don't want to do, you know, check into 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:47.800 a residential program, which is often like five to seven 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:50.960 days full time. There are home consultants who can come 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:54.000 to your house and they can help you with it, 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:57.080 sort of hands on. There's also a program I heard 0:19:57.119 --> 0:20:00.480 of recently. Actually, my incredible podcast editor Sam from podcast 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:02.280 Butler Big shout out to him. He's just such an 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:04.199