1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Sees the Ya Podcast. Busy and happy, 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: but tired and worn, just some of the feelings when 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 1: baby is born. There's magic, elation, there's chaos and tears, 4 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 1: but everyone goes through the same hopes and fears. So 5 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: this is a segment we hope helps you feel supported 6 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: and valid. The mum Juggles reel the good, bad, the ugly, 7 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: the best and worst day. It's part of the journey 8 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: to Seize the Babe. I'm Sarah Davidson, a lawyer turned 9 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: f entrepreneur who hung up the suits and heels to 10 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: co found Mata Maiden a Macha milk Bar, become a 11 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: TV and radio presenter, and of course host The Sees 12 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: the Ya Podcast. This year, I added motherhood to that list, 13 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:38,559 Speaker 1: which is the best job I've ever had with our 14 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: beautiful baby Teddy, and this segment was designed to house 15 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 1: all the conversations we've been having about parenthood. We'll still 16 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: do our regular episodes, and just like real life, it's 17 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:51,480 Speaker 1: a constant balance between our parent identity and everything else. 18 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: I hope you guys enjoy this segment as much as 19 00:00:54,200 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: I have enjoyed creating it. Lovely neighborhood, we are back 20 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 1: with the third installment of Seize the Baby, on a 21 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,759 Speaker 1: topic that's already been the most requested in my dms, 22 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: and that was actually before this segment even came up. 23 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 1: I think it might be the reason that I thought 24 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: of the idea to move some of these answers to 25 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: podcast form because I had been screenshotting AUNT. I answered 26 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: one person's question in as much detail as I could, 27 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: and then I just couldn't repeat that over and over 28 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: again because it was I tried to put as much 29 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: detail as possible, and I ended up just literally copying 30 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: and pasting sending out these terrible screenshots of my answers, 31 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: and I still felt like there wasn't enough real estate 32 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 1: in single story frames to cover everything that I wanted 33 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: to try and say to be reassuring or to just 34 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 1: share our experience. I felt like it really deserved a full, 35 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: proper ted talk length episode. So that's what's going to 36 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: come in your ears. And I also think it's a 37 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: topic that sparked a level of desperation in me for 38 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: information that I have never experienced before. And that is 39 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: saying something because new parenthood, you're always for information about 40 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: what to do and so to be able to pick 41 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: one thing that sparked the most desperation, like that's saying something. 42 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: We're talking, of course, about the elusive and emotionally charged 43 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: topic of sleep, and particularly the dreaded sleep regression or 44 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: regressions as supposedly joy there are several Even within parenthood, 45 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: where most topics are already a bit emotional or judge, 46 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: sleep seems to be especially sensitive, and I think that's 47 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: often because you're usually only talking about it if you're 48 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:36,679 Speaker 1: not getting enough, which is never anyone's best version of themselves. So, 49 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: as with all of these episodes, a big disclaimer to start, 50 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: this is all anecdotal. It's not an exhaustive, fully researched 51 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: guide to sleep. I have no professional experience or scientific backing. 52 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: I'm just answering your questions about what we did, and 53 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: there are many sleep specialists or pediatricians or experts who 54 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: you can turn to if you need actual advice. I'm 55 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: not trying to give any advice. I've just been asked 56 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: the question a lot of times and want to give 57 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: as much detail as I can. Every baby and family 58 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: is different, though, and what worked for us this time 59 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: might not work next time. But having said that, when 60 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 1: I was in the depths of it. I didn't care 61 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: about disclaimers. I didn't care that anyone was saying this 62 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: might not work for you. I still wanted to know 63 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,679 Speaker 1: what everyone else was doing, just because, Yeah, like I said, 64 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: you're so desperate for information on what might help. So 65 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: I'll just lay out what we did. But I just 66 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: want to remind everyone that this area is very specific 67 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: to you and also to the age of your baby too. Yeah, 68 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: it's very specific to so many factors. For context, I'm 69 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: talking about our experience getting through the so called four 70 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: month regression, which is the first major one that gets 71 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: talked about, and Teddy was born two weeks early. This 72 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: hit us almost exactly at four months and two weeks, 73 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: so at his perfectly adjusted age of four months, he's 74 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: so punctual that boy, oh my goodness. Look, we've barely started, 75 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: and I already again have to add a little note 76 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: that there's already some division around the term regression. So 77 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: before we even start talking about sleep reggressions, there's some 78 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: division around whether they exist, and secondly, there's some division 79 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: around if they do exist, are they called progressions not regressions. 80 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: I'm going to call it a regression, because that's just 81 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: the most common description when you're googling, when you're doing 82 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: your own research, and I did feel like Teddy's sleep 83 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 1: went backwards. But I do appreciate the positive slant of 84 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 1: the name progression, and it comes from the idea that 85 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: the sleep disruptions that happen during a regression often happened 86 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: because your baby's learning a new skill, so they're actually 87 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: going forwards, not backwards. So it's kind of putting a 88 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 1: positive on something that feels otherwise quite negative. So I 89 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 1: do appreciate that that's a really positive, yay kind of 90 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: way to look at it. But I'll just still call 91 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: it a regression because it's easier. As to those who 92 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 1: say they don't exist. I'm not sure on the exact science, 93 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: but as I understand it, at least for the four 94 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: month regression, there's a big shift in the way baby sleep. 95 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: It's just some babies don't show a disruption or any 96 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: symptom in that shift. That's how I understand it. So 97 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,239 Speaker 1: I think when people say they don't exist, they don't 98 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 1: mean that, like I think all babies do necessarily go 99 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: through the shift. I think just some babies don't show 100 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: any symptoms. So in that sense, they don't exist. I'm 101 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: not one hundred percent sure if that's the way that 102 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 1: kind of school of thought comes about. But for me anyway, 103 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: there was enough material out there for me to personally 104 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: accept that they happen, and then our experience was very 105 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: textbook on all the symptoms of the so called four 106 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: month regression. So to me, it exists. Each to their own. 107 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: Please go and do other research on the different terms 108 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: and all that stuff, but I'm just going to continue 109 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 1: as if, you know, treating it as if the four 110 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: month regression is a thing, because it was fast. So 111 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,479 Speaker 1: for some more background, there are a few main regressions 112 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: that are talked about, with four being the first, and 113 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: then I think there's sort of eight, twelve, eighteen months. 114 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: There might be a few more or a few less, 115 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: but they seemed to be the main ones that came 116 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: up when I was looking at everything from I understand, 117 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: and the four months regression is when a baby goes 118 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: from newborn sleep, which has no real cycles. It's just 119 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: kind of whenever. They don't have Ciccaian rhythms, they don't 120 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 1: really know day or night. It's just chunks of sleep, 121 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: and that tends to sort of improve and get longer 122 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: as they develop a little bit more, and then they 123 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 1: shift from that newborn sleep to cycles of sleep, which 124 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 1: is what adults have. We sleep in cycles. But what 125 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 1: happens when there are symptoms is that they can't link 126 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 1: those cycles. Again. I don't know what the actual science is, 127 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 1: but that's how I understand it from a kind of 128 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: lay person's view, that they move from not having cycles 129 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: to having cycles, and then in between each cycle whatever 130 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: wakes them up, and then they can't get back to 131 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: sleep themselves. They can't kind of link those cycles into 132 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 1: big chunks of sleep. So that means going from longer 133 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: sleeps to waking up very often, which is exactly what 134 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: happened to Teddy. And that kind of tends to be 135 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 1: the main description of what a sleep regression is is 136 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: just disrupted sleep. And I'm not sure that I realized 137 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 1: initially for us, because it was masked by jet lag. 138 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 1: You guys might remember we took Teddy to Italy and 139 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: we came back exactly on his sort of four and 140 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: a half month marker, but he went from sleeping for 141 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: eight to ten hours in a row, and that was 142 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: like a dream. I didn't even realize how good we 143 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: had it. But he'd just been inching closer and closer 144 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: to eight to ten hours in a row without any wakeups. 145 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: He went from that consistently to waking every hour to 146 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: one and a half hours overnight, which continued well past 147 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: jet lags. So at the start, I was like, Okay, cool, 148 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: we've obviously taken him overseas. He's changed complete time zones 149 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: and weather and everything. It's disrupted. That makes sense, big 150 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: changes to routine. But then it went on for weeks 151 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: and weeks and weeks, so I eventually realized, obviously it 152 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: must be something else. And that's when I personally accepted 153 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: that the four months regression is a thing and it 154 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: was happening to us. I thought it would resolve naturally. 155 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 1: I think that's kind of you know, you give things 156 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: a bit of a chance before intervening to resolve themselves, 157 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: maybe as he would get more used to his routine 158 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: and got more used to being home, But it didn't. 159 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: It continued, I would say for maybe six weeks before 160 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: I sort of actually thought about what to do. I 161 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: didn't even you kind of almost don't even realize that 162 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: something has become such a thing, and then my approach was, yeah, 163 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: during that time, was just do anything to help him 164 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: get back to sleep. When he would wake up every hour, 165 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: I thought, well, he's not going to go back to 166 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: sleep himself. I need to help him get back to sleep, 167 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: especially in the middle of the night. You're just like, 168 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: I'll do anything. So I started a habit at that 169 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: time of feeding him back to sleep. But then I 170 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: was feeding him so often that then he'd wet through 171 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 1: his nappies, and then his appetite would change during his 172 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: daytime feeding because I was feeding him too much at night, 173 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: and so many things get thrown out of kilter during 174 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: that sort of sleep disruption. It becomes such a hard cycle. 175 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: I won't talk about it again too much here because 176 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: I've already spoken about it in a lot in the 177 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: Juggle episode, which was with my dear friend Genevieve Day, 178 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: so you can go back to that one. But yeah, 179 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: this is the period I was talking about where I 180 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: really started to spiral and had the hardest time I've 181 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: had so far in the parenting journey because I just 182 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: wasn't getting enough sleep and it affects everything, your physical health, 183 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: your mental health, and I mean every hour for weeks 184 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: on end is really quite brutal, and I really really 185 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 1: found it was the first time I felt like I 186 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,199 Speaker 1: was spiraling out of control. So if you are going 187 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: through a sleep regression, it's you're so worried about your 188 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:28,839 Speaker 1: child and helping them get back to sleep, but it's 189 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: also that your life kind of feels like it's spiraling 190 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: out of control. And one thing that I got told 191 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 1: a lot by so many mums who were so reassuring 192 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: to me during that time was sleep deprivation is used 193 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: as a form of torture. It is literally not the 194 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: state that humans are supposed to exist in. It's not 195 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: when you're going to be operating at your best. Like 196 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 1: often I think there's a comparison between being sleep deprived 197 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: and driving under the influence of alcohol, Like it affects 198 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: everything about your thinking, your mood, your everything. So it 199 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: was a really, really hard time. And yeah, you can 200 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: go back to that episode to listen to sort of 201 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: the emotional side effects of what was happening, But here 202 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 1: I'm just focusing on, like physically what was going on. 203 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: So yeah, we got into a really difficult cycle physically 204 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: and mentally. And it's really interesting because I think a 205 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: regression is often the first time, or it was for us. 206 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: The four months regression anyway, was the first time that 207 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: we started to think about sleep is something that you 208 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: have to do anything about. Like before I just noticed 209 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: Teddy was sleepy, I put him down, and then I 210 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: waited until he woke up. And of course it's you know, 211 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,439 Speaker 1: the sleep deprivation is hard at the beginning because they're 212 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: waking up a lot, and you know, their little babies, 213 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 1: and but then it kind of improves bit by bit 214 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 1: and then yeah, you're just kind of going following their lead. 215 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: But I never really thought that I had to do 216 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: anything about it. But then when there starts to be 217 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: this disruption, this constant, unsustainable disruption, it was the first 218 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 1: time I thought, oh, I actually have to proactively do 219 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: something about his sleep to fix it, so to speak. 220 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: And the hardest part when you get to that junction in 221 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: your parent or journey, is well, what do you actually 222 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: do to fix it? Like what is the action that 223 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: you can take? So here is where it gets really 224 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: hard because it becomes so personal to you. And basically 225 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: there is an entire spectrum of options on how to 226 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 1: approach sleep when your little one is struggling with it. 227 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 1: And this is only you know, at this four month 228 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 1: regression age, we haven't gone through anything further than that. 229 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:31,199 Speaker 1: So this is again even more specific to this particular 230 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,080 Speaker 1: regression versus others. I have no experience on any that 231 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: are further down the track, but I mean, even with 232 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: the basics of setting up your baby for sleep, generally, 233 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: it all depends on your personal preference on whether you 234 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: room share, whether you bed share, whether you have a 235 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 1: snoop whether you don't, whether you have the heat or on, 236 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: do use sleep sacks, do you swaddle like There's just 237 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: so many variables even with the environment that your baby 238 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: asleep in. So for this episode, I'm going to assume 239 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: that you've already covered those basics and chose and what's 240 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: right for you in terms of white noise machines, blocking 241 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: out the light in the room, the wind down routine, sleep, clothing, temperature, 242 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: the room setup, all of that, because that information is 243 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: rarely available everywhere and there are just too many variables 244 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 1: to kind of cover. But just if you are having 245 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: trouble with sleep, think about those basics of setting up 246 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: the room and the environment for the most positive sleep 247 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 1: that you can. For me, in this time. My desperation 248 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: came from having ticked all of those off and still 249 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: not getting anywhere, still kind of having this constant waking 250 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: up and knowing that it wasn't for any of those reasons. 251 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: That's where my kind of research here came about. But 252 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: do go on research all the other things that you 253 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: can do if you're not already doing those. There's also 254 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: a lot to think about in terms of how many 255 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: hours each day your baby needs overall of sleep, which 256 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: again varies so much, and then what's over or undertied 257 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: for one baby is different for another. So there are 258 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:55,559 Speaker 1: all those factors at play in terms of helping them 259 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: get the best sleep. But I'll just focus on the 260 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: actual techniques to help help with fixing the sleep progression 261 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: once all those things are sorted, and then you're still 262 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: getting a no dice, because yeah, that's the question that 263 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:10,239 Speaker 1: I get asked the most. So the spectrum of options 264 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: at one end there is do nothing, just keep going 265 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: as you are, and that involves what I had been 266 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: doing the whole time. It's not doing nothing, but it's 267 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: like kind of not taking on an actual approach to 268 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: fixing the sleep. It's just getting them back to sleep 269 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: in the moment, So that involves yeah, doing whatever helps 270 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: them get back to sleep, feeding them to sleep, co sleeping, 271 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: whatever helps in the moment get you and your child 272 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: back to sleep. That's kind of the do nothing end 273 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: of the spectrum, and I think there's a lot of 274 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: judgment in that area. I mean, like I said, most 275 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: areas of parents are to judge it, but there's even 276 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: more judgment about you shouldn't be feeding your baby to sleep, 277 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: they should be falling asleep on their own. That phrase 278 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 1: put them down drowsy but awake. There's a lot of 279 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:03,079 Speaker 1: controversy around coast. I think it's widely misunderstood. I think 280 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: there's been so much like centuries of healthy co sleeping 281 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 1: in other cultures, Like there's yeah, it's very loaded area 282 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: and I won't go into it there, but at least 283 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: for the purposes of this episode, there is one end 284 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: of the spectrum where you just do anything to help 285 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: your baby get back to sleep, without sort of teaching 286 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: them anything or fixing anything. You're just doing. You're helping them, 287 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: like you're kind of doing the putting them to sleep. 288 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: Above all, I'll say, if it works for you and 289 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: doesn't upset your balance. It's absolutely fine to just stay 290 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: in that space. There's nothing wrong with feeding your baby 291 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: to sleep every hour, Like, if that's absolutely your prerogative, 292 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: if it doesn't affect your ability to function or enjoy 293 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: your life, then absolutely go and do that. I think 294 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: a lot of the literature now that's trying to say 295 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: you don't need to fix that situation is Yeah, if 296 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: it doesn't bother you and you're okay, and you know 297 00:14:57,840 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: it's not taking away from your job or your mental 298 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: health or whatever, then you absolutely can refeed to sleep, 299 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: co sleep, do all those things. The only reason that 300 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: I needed a solution to stop that, which I had 301 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: been doing for sort of six to eight weeks, is 302 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: because I got to the point where the sleep deprivation 303 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: of me helping him to sleep every cycle was just 304 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: taking such a heavy toll on my life. But I 305 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: did definitely continue on that way for at least a 306 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: few weeks. And I think the other thing is that 307 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: there's so much information out there that sometimes it's actually 308 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: harder to make a decision and easier just to keep struggling. 309 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: So I knew from four or five weeks that it 310 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: was unsustainable. I couldn't work and function and be healthy 311 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: and be a good mum. If I was waking up 312 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: that often, I was getting resentful, I was crabby, I 313 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: was tired. I just was in a haze all the time. 314 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: But I didn't know what else to do, so you 315 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: just kind of keep struggling on. So yeah, it lasted 316 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: again like another month before I could even process the 317 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: information about what to do. So yeah, I think at 318 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: that end of the spectrum, there's often you're sitting in 319 00:15:57,920 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: it because you don't know what else to do. But 320 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: if you choose to sit in it because it works 321 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 1: for you, then absolutely that's fine. But for me, it 322 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: inevitably got too hard, So that's when I started looking 323 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: at other options. At the complete other end of the 324 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: spectrum on kind of fixing the sleep is what's called 325 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: sleep school, and that is often a residential program where 326 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: you kind of check in with your baby, and that's 327 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: the end goal is fix the sleep disruption or the regression, 328 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: or if it's outside of a regression, it's just to 329 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: fix the sleep generally and teach them to sleep. If 330 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: it's inside of aggresson, it's obviously to fix the regression. 331 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: There's also I mean again, there's also a lot of 332 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: judgment at that end of the spectrum. There's a lot 333 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: of judgment everywhere, but at that end of the spectrum, 334 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: I think the main controversy is kind of around the 335 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: idea that they're often associated sleep schools are often associated 336 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: with crying it out, kind of leaving the baby overnight 337 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: to just cry without you intervening. There's a lot of Again, 338 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: these aren't my personal views, this is just sort of 339 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 1: what seems to be the bulk of material out there. 340 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: Judgment comes from the idea that you know, your baby 341 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: might feel abandonment and all that kind of stuff. So 342 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: I won't go into the moral or value based discussions 343 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: because again, it all so heavily depends on your personal values, 344 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 1: on your priorities. I'm just laying out the factual options 345 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: in case it's helpful for you to know. But yeah, 346 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: at the other end of the spectrum, there's sleep school. 347 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: I know many people who have done this. Actually, when 348 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 1: I first said that I was really having trouble with 349 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 1: Teddy sleep, the answer I got, like the recommendation I 350 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: got the most was for people having done one of 351 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,640 Speaker 1: the residential programs and saying that it has really set 352 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,640 Speaker 1: them and their family up well from a place of 353 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: having really really struggled. So yeah, lots of people have 354 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 1: done this and swear by it each to their own. 355 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 1: For me, it wasn't quite in line with the approach 356 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: I wanted to take, but that rapidly changes as you 357 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,120 Speaker 1: get further into sleep deprivation as well, so you kind 358 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 1: of as you get more and more desperate, your views 359 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: on things definitely change. And yeah, you just can't judge 360 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 1: what any decision anyone else makes, so I did always 361 00:17:58,200 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: have it up my sleeve and we live very c 362 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: by to one of the sleep schools that's really well recommended, 363 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:08,479 Speaker 1: So at the time I wanted to try other things first, 364 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: but it was definitely still always kind of in my mind. 365 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,120 Speaker 1: It may still be in future. Again, I can't rule 366 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: that out either, But if you did want to research this, 367 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:18,959 Speaker 1: A few options that I got recommended a lot in 368 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: Melbourne at least were Masada or Waverley Private. I'm not 369 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 1: sure for the other states, but you can go and 370 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: research that. And that's also it depends on you personally 371 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: as well, if you don't have the physical or mental 372 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 1: capacity to do any kind of sleep training at home, 373 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: or it depends how many other children you have, and anyway, 374 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: it depends on so many different things. But that's the 375 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 1: other end of the spectrum. In the middle is a 376 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:46,719 Speaker 1: whole range of different approaches to I think the middle 377 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: bit between nothing and sleep school is called sleep training, 378 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: where you help your child with sleep, and it has 379 00:18:55,000 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: varying degrees of sort of strictness or varying degrees of intensity, 380 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 1: so to speak. And there are so many options. Like 381 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: I almost didn't even do this episode because I was like, 382 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 1: it's just too hard to explain everything because there's variables off, 383 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: Like the chart of options is just too drastic. But again, 384 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: I just got sick of copying and pasting my terrible answer, 385 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: so I thought I could if I could be as 386 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: comprehensive as I can for anyone who's listening, who's at 387 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: the bit of her journey where she just can't process 388 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: it and need someone to just lay out the map. 389 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: Hopefully this is somewhat helpful. So there are so many 390 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: options in this kind of sleep training bracket. If you 391 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: don't feel like you can do it unsupported, there are 392 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: a lot of in home consultants who do this as 393 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 1: their job, and they can kind of come and do 394 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: if you don't want to do, you know, check into 395 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: a residential program, which is often like five to seven 396 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: days full time. There are home consultants who can come 397 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: to your house and they can help you with it, 398 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: sort of hands on. There's also a program I heard 399 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: of recently. Actually, my incredible podcast editor Sam from podcast 400 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: Butler Big shout out to him. He's just such an 401 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:04,199 Speaker 1: incredible human being, and we've had babies at a very 402 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 1: similar time, so we've been through a lot of this. 403 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: He also suggested a program called Tresillian, which is you 404 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 1: can do it online, but it's also like having an 405 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 1: in home consultant kind of on call to look at, 406 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 1: you know, the cues that your baby has and guide 407 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:20,439 Speaker 1: you through it with a more hands on way. So 408 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: that's another option to look up. We didn't do that, 409 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,439 Speaker 1: but I know he had a lot of success with it. 410 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: So I wanted to do the in home consultant option 411 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 1: because I didn't think that I'd be able to kind 412 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: of tolerate any level of crying from Teddy and do 413 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 1: it myself. I just wanted the structure of having someone 414 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: come in. But the people who I had turned to 415 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: at the time totally understandably he didn't have any bookings 416 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 1: like that night, which is the stage that you get 417 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: to Usually by the time you're researching, you want an 418 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: answer like that night, or at least to be starting 419 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: something that night or the next day. And I couldn't 420 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: get anything. I think it was three days away, which 421 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: just shows how you feel when you're in the depths 422 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: of it. That three days felt like an eternity, and 423 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 1: I was like, I can't wait that long, like I'll 424 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 1: book it, but I'm so desperate that I have to 425 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: feel like I'm doing something in between. So I had 426 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:09,959 Speaker 1: three days at my sleeve, and I was like, well, 427 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: I've got nothing to lose because I feel so awful 428 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 1: that I'll try one of the DIY methods. And the 429 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 1: DIY methods kind of fill in the whole rest of 430 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: the bulk of that middle bit of options. Some are 431 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: quicker than others, some are more intense than others. There's 432 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: a again, like so many options. It's really confusing because 433 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: everyone uses different terminology. But you might hear words like 434 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:35,160 Speaker 1: the chair method, pick up, put down, shush, pat space, soothing. 435 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: There's like so many different names. Basically, the idea is 436 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: there from gradual or really gentle to kind of more 437 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 1: intense and a bit quicker. So, as I said, they 438 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: all have different names, it can be very confusing. Then 439 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 1: some are tailored completely and don't really have a name, 440 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 1: because if you see an at home consultant or an 441 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 1: online consultant, they'll make something custom for you. I'm not 442 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: going to lay them all out because there are just 443 00:21:56,280 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 1: so many variations. But yes, they involve different levels of 444 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: of going in and out of your baby's room after 445 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 1: you put them down for bed, different levels of soothing 446 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: when they do get upset or wake up, whether picking 447 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: them up or patting them or just being in the room. 448 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 1: And then there's different timing of the intervals of coming 449 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 1: in and out or patting or shushing or whatever you're doing. 450 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: You can see how many variables there are and why 451 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 1: it's just going to be impossible to lay them all 452 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: out what we did though, Oh my goodness, you can 453 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:28,479 Speaker 1: see why I had to copy and paste so many 454 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: different things to give everyone that context before I got 455 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 1: to this part of the answer. So you guys know 456 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 1: that we have taken Teddy to babyspa since he was 457 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: very young, absolutely loves it, and they firstly, babyspar has 458 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: helped so much with his sleep because he actually gets 459 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: tired out, and yeah, it's amazing for baby sleep. They 460 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: also have in house sleep consultants and they saw me 461 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: week by week getting more decrepit and struggling and offered 462 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: to give us a bit of guidance on sleeping. And 463 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: at the same time an amazing pedatrician called doctor Golly, 464 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 1: who many of you will have heard of. He's a 465 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: pre eminent pediatrician who consults out of Kabrini, which is 466 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 1: where Teddy was born, but also has so much online information. 467 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,400 Speaker 1: He has an amazing Instagram page. But he also has 468 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: these really comprehensive guides for all the way from newborns 469 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: to toddlers and young children on everything but particularly sleep. 470 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:24,439 Speaker 1: They're routines, they're eating settling techniques. These guys are absolutely amazing. 471 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: He also has some books, and a lot of my 472 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: friends had used him as a pediatrician and had a 473 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: lot of success with his guide. So I actually bought 474 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: the guide for Teddy's age group, and I hadn't needed 475 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 1: it because he hadn't. I sort of just hadn't opened 476 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: it because I hadn't actually opened the sleep part anyway. 477 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 1: Until this regression, and both of those things at the 478 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: same time had detailed two main types of approaches and 479 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 1: they were quite similar. And so that you know, when 480 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: something you hear something from kind of more than one source, 481 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,360 Speaker 1: that's when your brain can kind of process it. So yeah, 482 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 1: Doctor Gollie's guides have been amazing more broadly and gave 483 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 1: us so much guidance. Also with all the other basics 484 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: I mentioned, like the overall day plan, the sleep routine, 485 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 1: the sleep environment, the impact of whether or not they're 486 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 1: on solids on their sleep, what solids they're eating. Literally 487 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: every aspect is covered in his Big Baby Guide, so separately, 488 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 1: but including the sleep regression context. I highly recommend that 489 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,919 Speaker 1: guide and I purchased it. This wasn't sponsored or anything. 490 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: I will put the link in the show notes. And 491 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,160 Speaker 1: he has since become our pediatrician, so that yeah, wasn't 492 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: at the time, so there was no yeah. I just 493 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: was trying it out and then we liked him so 494 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 1: much that we've moved over. So back to the two 495 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,439 Speaker 1: front running options that we thought we had. The first 496 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 1: one is a bit more gentle, and that's got lots 497 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: of different names. I think doctor Gollie calls it the 498 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: cudle to cot method. This one doesn't involve sort of 499 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: leaving a baby to cry it out by themselves for 500 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: any amount of time. So it's, like I said, a 501 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: bit more gradual and a bit gentler, And for that reason, 502 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: I think think a lot of people start with this, 503 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,880 Speaker 1: but you do have to be very patient and very 504 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 1: consistent over quite a while. So the overarching idea is 505 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: that you put your baby down to sleep and you 506 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: stay in the room with them. When they start crying, 507 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: you can settle them, you can pat them or touch 508 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: them or whatever kind of soothing method that you choose, 509 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,120 Speaker 1: and then if they continue crying, you can pick them up, 510 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 1: you give them a cuddle, you wait till they stop crying, 511 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 1: and then you put them back down, and then you 512 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 1: keep doing that process. There's a bit of variation around 513 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,880 Speaker 1: how long you wait when they do start crying again 514 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,159 Speaker 1: before you pick them up, but because you're able to 515 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 1: console them and physically do so, you're not leaving the 516 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: room and leaving them there, it is considered, yeah, a 517 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 1: bit gentler. I was a bit more desperate at the 518 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: time that we had started to read about these methods, 519 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: and as much as I originally would have thought this 520 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 1: would have been my choice because there is no crying 521 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 1: it out. I had those three days, as I mentioned, 522 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: and I really had been reassured by hearing that there 523 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 1: was an option that And actually one of the consultants 524 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 1: that Baby Spas said to me on the days when 525 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,360 Speaker 1: I was about to begin, saying, you will see results 526 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 1: with this method. By sort of day two, you'll see 527 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: some change, and by three you'll probably be back on track. 528 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: And that, I mean that level of certainty sounded firstly 529 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: like too good to be true. I was definitely a 530 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 1: bit skeptical when I heard that, but it also sounded 531 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 1: like I had to try because I was just so desperate. 532 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 1: So the second option, which is a bit more intense, 533 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 1: is called spaced soothing. That was the same terminology between 534 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,199 Speaker 1: Baby spar and Doctor Golly and a lot of other sources. 535 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 1: I feel like it's maybe the most consistently named approach, 536 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 1: and it's a version of controlled crying. But unlike crying 537 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 1: it out, where you just leave the baby by themselves 538 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 1: for an indefinite amount of time, this allows you to 539 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: go in and check on them at spaced intervals, hence 540 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 1: the spaced soothing, so it's not as intense, but there 541 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: are still, of course some periods of crying, which I 542 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: found absolutely devastating and so difficult. But coming back to 543 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: the level of desperation I was at, but also someone 544 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: pointed out to me that once, of course you've eliminated 545 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,120 Speaker 1: they're not in pain, they're in a safe place, they've 546 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 1: got to clean, nappy, all of those things. They are 547 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: just crying because they've gotten used to one thing and 548 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 1: you've taken it away. It's just a change in routine, 549 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 1: and they're crying out because you've gone from literally feeding 550 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: him every hour and he wakes up expecting milk and 551 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: then you don't give it to him. Of course he's 552 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: going to have a little bit of a fuss about that. 553 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 1: So that perspective really helped me get through those hard moments. 554 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: Plus the duration of those intervals, which are your hard 555 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: moments when you're out of the room, you're teaching them 556 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:37,360 Speaker 1: to self soothe, you're choosing how long those intervals are. 557 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: Basically everyone kind of has a space soothing table with 558 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: the recommended intervals to use, but then you choose what 559 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: feels right for you. So yeah, I don't think there's 560 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,640 Speaker 1: any strict rules, and I think every table that I've 561 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 1: seen for space soothing is different from all the different 562 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 1: places that you'll find it. But we ended up following 563 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: doctor Gollies and I'll put the link to that in 564 00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: the show notes. As I mentioned, so basically, what you 565 00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: do is you put your child with this method into 566 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,679 Speaker 1: their cot while they're awake, and then the idea is 567 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: that you want them to fall asleep in the same 568 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: place that they're going to wake up, so that, yeah, 569 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: they don't get sort of scared when they do wake 570 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: up in a different place, and then they can self 571 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 1: settle themselves between the sleep cycles. So yes, you're trying 572 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,639 Speaker 1: to get them to fall asleep, but unlike the first method, 573 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,640 Speaker 1: you don't stay in there with them. You put them 574 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,640 Speaker 1: down and then you leave the room if they do 575 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: start crying. Instead of the first method where you would 576 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,120 Speaker 1: sort of touch them and where you can pick them up, 577 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: you go into you can go back into the room 578 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: to check on them, but you don't pick them back up, 579 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: and do you only remain in there for a short 580 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: amount of time. I think it's around one to two 581 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: minutes that you remain in the room, and then even 582 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: if they don't calm down, you go back out again 583 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: for another interval. So this method involves pretty much checking 584 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: in and going in and out of the room, so 585 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:54,959 Speaker 1: you're never leaving them there for like an hour, you know, 586 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,719 Speaker 1: at once, but you are allowing them to cry by 587 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: themselves for a bit, which is absolutely brutal and it 588 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: hurt myself so much. I mean, it really is difficult, 589 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: and I was in such a desperate position, but I 590 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: did feel reassured that I could go in and I 591 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: could reassure him and check on him at those intervals 592 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 1: in between kind of leaving him for periods of time. 593 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: And all of the tables will have intervals set for 594 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: the first time you wait the second weight, the third weight, 595 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: and any more weights, and then it will say what 596 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:32,960 Speaker 1: those are for day one that you try, Day two 597 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: that you try, they get a little bit longer, day 598 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: three they get a bit longer, and it kids going, 599 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: And that's the bit that will change depending on who 600 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 1: you're using as your guidance. Then, of course, if your 601 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 1: child is getting really really distressed, or if there's any 602 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: intervening circumstance like teething or something, you know, like they 603 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: went through their nappy, then of course you sort of 604 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: abandon it and you know, go and do what you 605 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: need to do to take care of them. But in 606 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: a neutral world, you are following the interval table of 607 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: going in and out, and you're using a timer a 608 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: lot as well, and five seconds feels like five hours. 609 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: But I will say that what the baby Spark consultant 610 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: said to me was absolutely true. Day one, it took 611 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: an hour for him to fall asleep, But that wasn't 612 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: an hour crying, you know, consistently without me. We were going 613 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: in and out, in and out, in and out. But 614 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: it did take an hour, and that was absolutely brutal. 615 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: Day two it halved. In one night, it got down 616 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,479 Speaker 1: to thirty minutes for his first fall asleep, and that 617 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: felt incredibly positive, even though that half an hour was 618 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: still absolutely devastating. By day three it got to six minutes. 619 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: So in three days I'd gone from I will never 620 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: see the lad again, I'll never sleep again? Who am I? 621 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: What is the universe to I've tried this thing. I 622 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: had nothing to lose because we couldn't physically book in 623 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: anyone until that three days time. But by day three 624 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: he went to sleep by himself, and then when he 625 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: did wake up crying he could resettle himself and he 626 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: went back to sleep again in six minutes by himself, 627 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: which blew my mind, like could not believe it. So again, 628 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 1: this is not you know, advice backed up by anything 629 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: for anyone specific. This is what worked for us. But 630 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: I did find it so so reassuring to hear that 631 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: this had also happened for some friends of mine, and 632 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: then the fact that it did happen quite quickly for 633 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: us was what I needed personally at the time to 634 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: know firstly that I could get some sleep again, but 635 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: also that Teddy could get some sleep again, and both 636 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: of us thrived from that moment. It's been a week 637 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: since then and everything has continued to be wonderful. He's 638 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: sort of sleep trained, so to speak, and it just 639 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: kept improving every day. There are obviously way more details 640 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: in between and nuances to each technique, and that's where 641 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: you sort of can go and purchase a guide or 642 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: you can google it yourself. So the technique, as I said, 643 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: is called space soothing, and I'll include doctor Gollies programs 644 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 1: link as well. But the other thing is that it 645 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 1: takes dayne apps a little while to catch up. Like 646 00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: often people will say work on one or the other 647 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: and then the other one will follow. You don't need 648 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: to kind of be fixing everything at once. You can 649 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: have a couple of days like when there's teething or 650 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 1: when they don't feel well, or daylight savings or whatever, 651 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: when a routine change and travel that will feel like 652 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: you go backwards a little bit, but then you just 653 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: get back on track, going back to the method, and 654 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: you kind of restore and find yourself again. So we 655 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: did fall off the bandwagon a little bit in Fiji 656 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: where we didn't have the same sleep environment. Obviously, it 657 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 1: was a big change of routine, and I did fall 658 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: back into feeding him to sleep a little bit to 659 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: help him get to sleep, and then we just returned 660 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: to the space soothing again when we got home, and 661 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: that took two days and now we're back on track. 662 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: So that's me answering the question in as much detail 663 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: as I can for you guys, hoping that it is 664 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: a little bit reassuring for anyone who's in the depths 665 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: of it, and not that you should do exactly that, 666 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: but just the fact that there is something you can 667 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 1: do and maybe a starting point for you to go 668 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: and do a little bit of research for yourselves. But 669 00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 1: above all that, you know there is an end insight, 670 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: and it's hard no matter what you choose. Sleep deprivation 671 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: is just so brutal, and this area is so emotionally charged. 672 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: But I just am sending so much I'm literally speechless. 673 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: I'm sending so much love to anyone going through it. 674 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: It really is one of the most brutal things I've 675 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,959 Speaker 1: ever gone through. And who knows if I'll use that 676 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 1: same approach next time. Who knows what next time we'll 677 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: look at. Above all, I really am at pains to 678 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 1: say that this is anecdotal only and hopefully just a 679 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: guide reassurance if anything, like all of these episodes, but 680 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: I did want to just make sure I had it 681 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: all set out somewhere so that yeah, my silly copy 682 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: and paste or literal screenshots of my typing stopped being 683 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: sent and I could send a proper link to an 684 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: episode where I laid it out as best I could. 685 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: So sending you all so much love. I'm so glad 686 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 1: you're enjoying this segment. I probably should have got doctor 687 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: Golli or one of the babis Bar consultants on to 688 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: add a more authoritative voice, but yes, that's me answering 689 00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: as best I can, and there are lots more topics 690 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: to come. As always, let me know if you have 691 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 1: any further questions or any feedback or any request for 692 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 1: further topics on the next season baby episode. And we 693 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: also have some other amazing guests coming up. So I 694 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: hope you guys are all loving it so far and 695 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: in the meantime seizing you're yay. Thank you for coming 696 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: to my Ted Talk