WEBVTT - A Cop Cover-Up Or A Killer Girlfriend: Is Karen Read Being Framed? 0:00:11.542 --> 0:00:16.302 You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. Mama Mea acknowledges the 0:00:16.342 --> 0:00:20.182 traditional owners of land and waters. This podcast was recorded 0:00:20.182 --> 0:00:29.902 on It's a blustery winter's night in Canton, Massachusetts in 0:00:30.022 --> 0:00:33.462 January twenty twenty two and Karen Reid and John O'Keeffe 0:00:33.462 --> 0:00:37.542 are out with friends. They're drinking, bar hopping and enjoying 0:00:37.542 --> 0:00:40.222 a night on the town. John is a local cop 0:00:40.542 --> 0:00:42.142 and the plan is to move the party to one 0:00:42.182 --> 0:00:46.462 of his colleagues homes nearby. After midnight, Karen drops John 0:00:46.502 --> 0:00:49.302 at the address and heads back to his house. She 0:00:49.382 --> 0:00:52.382 starts panicking when he still isn't home in the early 0:00:52.422 --> 0:00:56.582 hours of the morning. Well that's her side of the 0:00:56.622 --> 0:01:01.182 story anyway. John's body is found outside the location of 0:01:01.182 --> 0:01:05.022 the house party at six am the next morning. Pieces 0:01:05.022 --> 0:01:08.822 from a broken tail light are found nearby. As Karen 0:01:08.862 --> 0:01:11.822 whales at the site of her dead boyfriend, she says 0:01:11.862 --> 0:01:15.542 something that remains a point of contention. Either I hit him, 0:01:15.582 --> 0:01:18.742 I hit him? Or did I hit him? Did I 0:01:18.822 --> 0:01:23.582 hit him? The slight change of inference means everything. It 0:01:23.622 --> 0:01:26.782 could mean the difference between freedom and a jail cell 0:01:26.902 --> 0:01:31.862 for Karen. But this story gets even murkier because as 0:01:31.902 --> 0:01:34.982 her defense picks up the case, they start to unravel 0:01:35.022 --> 0:01:39.222 another potential series of events, one that involves a cover up, 0:01:39.742 --> 0:01:44.542 contamination by law enforcement, and the framing of Karen for murder. 0:01:55.902 --> 0:01:59.182 I'm Jemma Bass and this is True Crime Conversations a 0:01:59.302 --> 0:02:02.622 Muma me a podcast exploring the world's most notorious crimes 0:02:03.142 --> 0:02:05.662 by speaking to the people who know the most about them. 0:02:06.542 --> 0:02:10.062 Before her arrest, Karen Read was a financial analyst and professor. 0:02:10.662 --> 0:02:13.462 She'd been dating John O'Keeffe, a Boston police officer, for 0:02:13.542 --> 0:02:17.462 two years. Photos of the pair show an attractive, smiling 0:02:17.542 --> 0:02:20.902 couple in their mid forties, but despite the pretty pictures, 0:02:20.942 --> 0:02:25.502 their relationship wasn't all rosy. They'd been having some disagreements 0:02:25.542 --> 0:02:28.302 in the lead up to that January twenty twenty two evening. 0:02:29.262 --> 0:02:32.502 Ever since John's death, the town where he died has 0:02:32.542 --> 0:02:36.902 been divided, but it since snowbled into an international debate 0:02:37.342 --> 0:02:40.382 fueled by the free Karen movement that's grown legs online. 0:02:41.102 --> 0:02:45.022 There's two very distinct camps. Was John killed by those 0:02:45.142 --> 0:02:49.022 inside the house, a house full of police and law enforcement, 0:02:49.422 --> 0:02:52.702 who then proceeded to cover up his murder, or did 0:02:52.702 --> 0:02:56.062 his girlfriend Karen kill him before he even made it 0:02:56.102 --> 0:02:59.702 through the front door. To help us unpack those theories 0:02:59.742 --> 0:03:03.262 and everything that came before it, where joined by Jessica Lalfer, 0:03:03.582 --> 0:03:07.182 producer of Karen, an in depth podcast series by the 0:03:07.262 --> 0:03:19.662 Law and Crime Network. Jessica joins us now just tell 0:03:19.742 --> 0:03:22.542 us about Karen and Jones love story. 0:03:23.462 --> 0:03:26.702 So, Karen and John actually first met when they were 0:03:26.702 --> 0:03:31.182 in their twenties, shortly after college. They dated for a 0:03:31.222 --> 0:03:34.222 little while, but their careers took them on different paths. 0:03:34.742 --> 0:03:40.182 Karen became an adjunct professor at Bentley University in Massachusetts, 0:03:40.782 --> 0:03:44.462 and John O'Keefe became a cop. He was a Boston 0:03:44.502 --> 0:03:48.542 Police officer, and in twenty twenty or you know, during 0:03:48.582 --> 0:03:52.502 the COVID era, they came across each other again on 0:03:52.542 --> 0:03:55.782 Facebook and he messaged her and was like, you know, 0:03:55.942 --> 0:04:00.262 longtime no see, And she was looking at his profile 0:04:00.342 --> 0:04:03.062 and was like, oh, I noticed you have these kids 0:04:03.102 --> 0:04:05.302 with you now, like, what's going on with that? And 0:04:05.462 --> 0:04:08.862 it turns out that he has taken custody of his 0:04:08.982 --> 0:04:13.222 niece and his nephew after the really really sad story 0:04:13.302 --> 0:04:16.542 that not only did his brother in law die, but 0:04:16.702 --> 0:04:20.382 also his sister died, and so that left the kids 0:04:20.422 --> 0:04:23.422 without any parents, and so John swooped in and took 0:04:23.462 --> 0:04:26.782 them under his wing. And so he ended up taking 0:04:26.822 --> 0:04:30.222 a desk job at the Boston Police Department to have 0:04:30.262 --> 0:04:33.942 a safer job so he could take care of these kids. 0:04:34.102 --> 0:04:37.142 And from what I had seen on their TikTok, they 0:04:37.262 --> 0:04:38.982 just had like a ton of fun together. You can 0:04:39.022 --> 0:04:42.702 tell he was the fun uncle and really loved them, 0:04:42.982 --> 0:04:45.302 and it really just seemed like a really fun house 0:04:45.302 --> 0:04:48.742 to live in. But Karen and John they rekindled and 0:04:49.622 --> 0:04:52.702 they dated for two years up until the night that 0:04:52.822 --> 0:04:55.222 this tragic incident happened. 0:04:56.062 --> 0:04:59.582 That's a lot of different dynamics to navigate as someone 0:04:59.662 --> 0:05:04.142 coming into a new relationship. You've got this once single guy, 0:05:04.542 --> 0:05:07.422 no kids, who suddenly has two children to look after. 0:05:07.462 --> 0:05:10.902 He's also grieving. How did they navigate all of that 0:05:11.222 --> 0:05:14.462 her basically adopting two step kids in this relationship. 0:05:15.262 --> 0:05:18.902 Yeah, from all accounts we've heard, Karen really really cared 0:05:18.982 --> 0:05:23.422 about the children, and she was often spending the night 0:05:23.542 --> 0:05:26.302 at John's house and helping to raise them, to take 0:05:26.342 --> 0:05:28.302 care of them. She was very invested in their futures. 0:05:28.342 --> 0:05:31.302 But Karen and John were only dating, and so there 0:05:31.302 --> 0:05:33.822 were times where she felt like she was being taken 0:05:33.902 --> 0:05:37.862 advantage of when he would go out drinking and she 0:05:37.902 --> 0:05:39.662 couldn't get a hold of him and she would be 0:05:39.702 --> 0:05:41.342 at the house with the kids. You know, She's like, 0:05:41.342 --> 0:05:42.942 I have to go back to my house. I have 0:05:42.982 --> 0:05:45.742 a job to do, and you're nowhere to be found. 0:05:45.942 --> 0:05:49.222 And so there was a lot of back and forth, 0:05:49.342 --> 0:05:51.862 it seems, between the two of them over the kids, 0:05:51.862 --> 0:05:55.022 and especially from some testimony we heard during the trial 0:05:55.462 --> 0:05:58.782 about what she was feeding the kids, it's actually kind 0:05:58.822 --> 0:06:02.422 of ironic that it's all over like Dunkin Donuts, which 0:06:02.502 --> 0:06:05.702 is very Massachusetts, very Boston of this case. 0:06:06.902 --> 0:06:09.782 So take me through that he was upset that she 0:06:09.862 --> 0:06:10.942 was fading them donuts. 0:06:11.942 --> 0:06:15.222 Yeah, so there was just one morning where instead of 0:06:15.422 --> 0:06:17.782 making them a breakfast, she brought them Dunkin Donuts and 0:06:17.862 --> 0:06:21.022 John was unhappy about the kids eating donuts and wanting 0:06:21.022 --> 0:06:23.142 them to eat something healthier, and they had a big 0:06:23.222 --> 0:06:26.302 argument about it. But I'll say this, just judging from 0:06:26.422 --> 0:06:30.782 everything we've learned about Karen and John over the course 0:06:31.142 --> 0:06:33.502 of the past couple of years since instance and it happened, 0:06:34.262 --> 0:06:36.462 it seems like it's pretty easy to get them to 0:06:36.462 --> 0:06:38.502 fly off the handle. You know, she seems like she 0:06:38.542 --> 0:06:41.302 has quite a temper on her And I'm not sure 0:06:41.302 --> 0:06:44.502 about John. I haven't heard that about him. But it 0:06:44.542 --> 0:06:47.822 takes two to start a foot, yeah. 0:06:48.102 --> 0:06:51.262 Quick to fire, by the sounds. So what was the 0:06:51.302 --> 0:06:54.702 state of their relationship looking like in twenty twenty two. 0:06:54.822 --> 0:06:55.982 Early twenty twenty. 0:06:55.702 --> 0:07:00.062 Two, people in the group were saying that the relationship 0:07:00.102 --> 0:07:04.142 had run its course. The niece actually had overheard John 0:07:04.862 --> 0:07:07.942 say to Karen that this isn't healthy. And this was 0:07:07.982 --> 0:07:11.702 one week before his death, and so there's a lot 0:07:11.742 --> 0:07:15.622 of like moving parts around this time. They're dating, she's 0:07:15.702 --> 0:07:18.542 practically living with him, she's taking care of his children. 0:07:19.102 --> 0:07:21.022 But you know, they still love each other and so 0:07:21.142 --> 0:07:23.382 it seems like it's very hard for them to figure 0:07:23.382 --> 0:07:26.982 out like how to make this work. And then leading 0:07:27.062 --> 0:07:29.062 up to the night of the twenty eighth, you can 0:07:29.102 --> 0:07:32.782 see on surveillance footage John and Karen and their group 0:07:32.822 --> 0:07:35.982 of friends. They're at this bar called the Waterfall Bard Girl, 0:07:36.942 --> 0:07:39.502 and they look like they're having a great time. Everybody 0:07:39.542 --> 0:07:42.702 looks like they're getting along. Everybody's laughing, She's like holding 0:07:42.742 --> 0:07:46.662 on to him. They're very affectionate, and it's very hard 0:07:46.662 --> 0:07:48.622 to believe everything that happens after this. 0:07:49.662 --> 0:07:51.862 They go to an after potty, which is what happens 0:07:51.862 --> 0:07:54.942 after the night out drinking. Before we get to what happened, 0:07:55.022 --> 0:07:58.182 can you give us some context about who was at 0:07:58.182 --> 0:08:00.622 that after potty, because it was a house that was 0:08:00.622 --> 0:08:03.542 owned by a man called Brian Albert, and he's quite 0:08:03.582 --> 0:08:04.702 significant in this story. 0:08:05.302 --> 0:08:08.862 He is, so Brian Albert is also a Boston police officer, 0:08:08.982 --> 0:08:12.502 so he knew John O'Keeffe. He said he was a 0:08:12.502 --> 0:08:15.342 friend of his, but they were probably just buddies. They're 0:08:15.342 --> 0:08:18.702 also cops. They live near each other, and also John 0:08:18.742 --> 0:08:22.262 O'Keeffe lives next door to Colin Albert, which is the 0:08:22.382 --> 0:08:26.342 nephew of Brian Albert. So thirty four Fairview Road is 0:08:26.342 --> 0:08:30.022 where all of this ends up taking place. In Campton, Massachusetts, 0:08:30.582 --> 0:08:34.102 a noeters coming in, which is a huge snowstorm, the 0:08:34.262 --> 0:08:36.502 likes of which the area had not seen in years, 0:08:36.702 --> 0:08:40.102 and they were projected to get like feet and feet 0:08:40.142 --> 0:08:42.822 of snow, and so they were all just trying to 0:08:42.862 --> 0:08:45.382 get one last hurrahan before they were going to be 0:08:45.542 --> 0:08:50.622 holed in by this snow. And at the house, they're 0:08:50.662 --> 0:08:55.742 celebrating Brian Junior's birthday, party, So Brian Junior is there 0:08:56.022 --> 0:08:59.102 at the house with a bunch of his friends, while 0:08:59.182 --> 0:09:02.102 the parents in John O'Keeffe and Karen Reider at the bar. 0:09:02.542 --> 0:09:06.502 And so around twelve fifteen, everyone starts trickling from the 0:09:06.542 --> 0:09:09.302 bar to the Albert home and this is the home 0:09:09.382 --> 0:09:14.062 of Brian. And at the home with them at this 0:09:14.262 --> 0:09:18.862 point is Jennifer McCabe. So one other person that's at 0:09:18.862 --> 0:09:21.142 this party is the person that Karen Reid has been 0:09:22.062 --> 0:09:25.302 exchanging flirtatious text with and he was also at the bar. 0:09:25.462 --> 0:09:29.022 His name is Brian Higgins. There are two Brian's in 0:09:29.062 --> 0:09:34.422 this story. So Brian Higgins is not a police officer, 0:09:34.502 --> 0:09:37.142 but he's in law enforcement and he happens to have 0:09:37.182 --> 0:09:41.302 an office in the Canton Police Department, where Kevin Albert 0:09:41.422 --> 0:09:45.462 is a detective. Kevin is Brian's brother, and they have 0:09:45.502 --> 0:09:51.422 another brother named Chris, who is the Canton Selectman. So 0:09:51.662 --> 0:09:54.542 this is clearly a very well connected family in this 0:09:54.582 --> 0:10:00.302 little town. So it's easy to see where this conspiracy 0:10:00.342 --> 0:10:05.542 theory took fire because there are so many tentacles to 0:10:05.622 --> 0:10:09.182 this family and so many people involved. But at the 0:10:09.182 --> 0:10:13.862 core of it, that night, there were about ten adults 0:10:14.382 --> 0:10:16.942 and maybe a few of the kids left from the 0:10:16.982 --> 0:10:20.102 birthday celebration around twelve thirty at night. 0:10:21.062 --> 0:10:24.502 Okay, so what does Karen say happened that evening? 0:10:25.542 --> 0:10:29.382 So Karen Reid has really not said much about this 0:10:29.542 --> 0:10:35.222 case publicly, except she did an interview for Nightline back 0:10:35.262 --> 0:10:39.062 in twenty twenty three before the trial took place, and 0:10:39.182 --> 0:10:42.502 I'm actually surprised her lawyers let her do this. But 0:10:42.862 --> 0:10:46.902 she says that she and John were leaving the bar 0:10:47.822 --> 0:10:50.462 and he says, we're going to go to the Alberts 0:10:50.462 --> 0:10:54.182 for the after party. She says, are we invited? I 0:10:54.262 --> 0:10:57.662 want to make sure we're invited, And so she tells 0:10:57.782 --> 0:11:01.022 him when they get there to go inside to make 0:11:01.022 --> 0:11:05.902 sure that it's okay, that they're welcome there. And this 0:11:05.942 --> 0:11:08.062 is where the details get like a little fuzzy, because 0:11:08.102 --> 0:11:10.422 she says she never saw him go in the house, 0:11:10.822 --> 0:11:13.422 but she saw him approach the door. She says she 0:11:13.502 --> 0:11:17.262 looked down at her phone and then drove off, which 0:11:17.302 --> 0:11:19.462 is kind of weird because I thought she was going 0:11:19.542 --> 0:11:22.342 to stay at the party. But there's also some times 0:11:22.342 --> 0:11:24.622 where she said that she waited for a really long 0:11:24.662 --> 0:11:28.102 time for John to come out and give her the 0:11:28.102 --> 0:11:30.782 confirmation and he wasn't answering his phone and he wasn't 0:11:30.822 --> 0:11:34.102 responding to any texts. So perhaps she was there for 0:11:34.142 --> 0:11:38.182 about ten minutes and waited for him, and then she 0:11:38.262 --> 0:11:40.782 took off and went back to his house for the 0:11:40.902 --> 0:11:44.262 night because that's where the kids were and somebody needed 0:11:44.262 --> 0:11:47.582 to be with them overnight. And over the course of 0:11:47.622 --> 0:11:53.182 this whole evening, she's blowing up his phone, she's texting him, 0:11:53.222 --> 0:11:57.662 she calls him fifty times, and she's leaving like these 0:11:57.702 --> 0:12:02.502 profanity laden voicemails. They're kind of funny if it wasn't 0:12:02.542 --> 0:12:06.302 in the middle of this extremely serious situation. So that's 0:12:06.382 --> 0:12:09.622 Karen's story, is that she wakes up around five am 0:12:09.662 --> 0:12:12.302 and she realized John never came into the house. She 0:12:12.422 --> 0:12:15.062 was sleeping on the couch and I believe the niece 0:12:15.182 --> 0:12:18.422 was with her in the living room. So she calls 0:12:18.542 --> 0:12:22.382 Jennifer McCabe, who again is the sister in law of 0:12:22.462 --> 0:12:25.382 Brian Albert, the homeowner, and she says, you know, John 0:12:25.422 --> 0:12:27.542 never came home last night. Where's John? Do you think 0:12:27.542 --> 0:12:30.902 he got hit by a plow? And it's really interesting 0:12:31.182 --> 0:12:35.702 that she's just throwing out all of these weird like 0:12:35.742 --> 0:12:37.662 what if he got hit by a plow, Like, we 0:12:37.742 --> 0:12:41.062 need to go look for him. So she, an Jennifer 0:12:41.142 --> 0:12:44.502 and this woman Carrie Roberts decide to go on this 0:12:44.982 --> 0:12:49.982 journey together to look for John. And while she's on 0:12:50.022 --> 0:12:54.582 the phone with Jennifer McCabe, Jennifer's husband, here's the conversation 0:12:55.142 --> 0:12:57.902 and Karen is saying, I left him at the waterfall. 0:12:58.022 --> 0:13:00.182 I must have left him at the waterfall, and he's like, 0:13:00.262 --> 0:13:03.982 what are you talking about? We saw you outside the house. 0:13:04.302 --> 0:13:06.622 So there are multiple people who say they saw her 0:13:06.702 --> 0:13:10.222 dark suv outside of the house. So we know that 0:13:10.302 --> 0:13:14.062 it's at least true that she pulled up to the 0:13:14.102 --> 0:13:18.142 house and dropped off John. That's true. Nobody's debating that. 0:13:19.062 --> 0:13:22.302 But what happens next is still a mystery because they're 0:13:22.382 --> 0:13:26.542 driving around the two square miles from the bar to 0:13:26.662 --> 0:13:30.222 the two houses, and as soon as they pull up 0:13:30.262 --> 0:13:34.062 in front of the house, the homeowner is Brian Albert, 0:13:34.342 --> 0:13:39.422 Boston police officer. She immediately homes in on this gigantic 0:13:39.582 --> 0:13:42.902 snow mound in between the flagpole and the fire hydrant, 0:13:43.182 --> 0:13:45.382 and she runs and she beelines to it. She's like, 0:13:45.422 --> 0:13:48.662 it's John, It's John, It's John. Nobody else sees what 0:13:48.822 --> 0:13:52.462 she's seeing. Like again, it's snowing very, very hard. There's 0:13:52.462 --> 0:13:54.062 at least two feet of snow on the ground, I 0:13:54.102 --> 0:13:57.222 believe at this point, and she runs over to him. 0:13:57.302 --> 0:13:59.942 She's pushing the snow off of him. At one point 0:14:00.022 --> 0:14:03.702 she takes her shirt off, she takes his shirt off, 0:14:03.742 --> 0:14:09.382 and she's trying to warm him up. And I believe 0:14:09.982 --> 0:14:14.102 he's still alive at this point, or you know, maybe 0:14:14.142 --> 0:14:18.942 he's just pronounced dead later. But it's really strange what 0:14:18.982 --> 0:14:21.942 you end up seeing. Of course, I've never seen his 0:14:22.062 --> 0:14:25.022 body on the scene, but he has two black eyes, 0:14:25.822 --> 0:14:28.902 a big straight abrasion on the back of his head, 0:14:29.502 --> 0:14:31.742 and he has a lot of what looked like claw 0:14:31.822 --> 0:14:36.742 marks scratches on one of his arms, and he's bleeding 0:14:36.782 --> 0:14:39.502 from the mouth and the nose and the eyes, and 0:14:39.582 --> 0:14:42.182 so they call nine one one. Multiple people have called 0:14:42.262 --> 0:14:45.022 nine one one at this point. And this is where 0:14:45.062 --> 0:14:48.822 again it gets even more complicated because a lot of 0:14:48.862 --> 0:14:53.182 people end up on this scene, the paramedics, the investigating 0:14:53.302 --> 0:14:57.422 officers from the Canton Police Department, who do not investigate homicides, 0:14:57.502 --> 0:15:00.422 let alone deaths, and so they're a little bit out 0:15:00.422 --> 0:15:04.062 of their element. It's snowing. It's a crazy scene. It's 0:15:04.062 --> 0:15:09.022 six in the morning, and Karen is screaming hysterically. Everyone 0:15:09.102 --> 0:15:11.862 keeps talking about how crazy she's going at this scene, 0:15:11.902 --> 0:15:15.502 while everyone else is very calm and they're just, you know, 0:15:15.582 --> 0:15:18.182 kind of in shock that this is even happening to 0:15:18.462 --> 0:15:24.462 their good friend John O'Keefe. And there are multiple accounts 0:15:24.982 --> 0:15:28.942 that Karen said I hit him, I hit him, I 0:15:29.022 --> 0:15:33.742 hit him, but nobody wrote it down in a single 0:15:33.742 --> 0:15:35.222 report at the time. 0:15:36.342 --> 0:15:39.902 There was also contention over the wording of that wasn't. 0:15:39.702 --> 0:15:44.342 There right, And so she maintains that she did not 0:15:44.422 --> 0:15:47.822 say I hit him. She maintains she asked did I 0:15:47.942 --> 0:15:52.182 hit him? Could I have hit him? Because she's thinking 0:15:52.262 --> 0:15:55.222 back to the night before when she dropped him off. 0:15:55.862 --> 0:15:57.902 And so this is where it gets a little fuzzy, 0:15:57.942 --> 0:16:01.142 because you you either have to believe that she doesn't 0:16:01.262 --> 0:16:04.742 remember anything about that night, or she's only remembering details, 0:16:04.862 --> 0:16:08.222 or they're coming to her over time, which could happen. 0:16:08.862 --> 0:16:13.182 But really everything about this case is really complicated by 0:16:13.182 --> 0:16:17.182 the fact that nobody secures the scene, none of the 0:16:17.542 --> 0:16:22.502 officers separate the witnesses, They never go into the home. 0:16:22.742 --> 0:16:27.662 Brian albert A police officer and a first responder never 0:16:27.742 --> 0:16:32.342 comes out of his home to see what's going on outside, 0:16:32.582 --> 0:16:39.142 and they start collecting evidence with red solo cups borrowed 0:16:39.182 --> 0:16:42.742 from a cop neighbor who lives down the street. 0:16:43.342 --> 0:16:45.382 That is a wild detile, isn't it. 0:16:45.902 --> 0:16:47.702 I know it came out in the trial. It was 0:16:47.782 --> 0:16:49.662 just like, how far away is the police department? You 0:16:49.702 --> 0:16:52.822 guys don't have sterile plastic containers, like what would take 0:16:52.822 --> 0:16:56.222 you five minutes to get there? So they're clearly out 0:16:56.222 --> 0:16:58.862 of their element by the time the afternoon rolls around. 0:16:58.942 --> 0:17:01.102 Obviously this case has been taken out of their hands 0:17:01.182 --> 0:17:04.502 and it's given to the Massachusetts State Police. And this 0:17:04.782 --> 0:17:09.302 complicates the case even more because the person assigned to 0:17:09.342 --> 0:17:13.182 investigate this is Trooper Michael Proctor, and he is also 0:17:13.302 --> 0:17:15.542 a friend of the homeowner, Brian Albert. 0:17:20.222 --> 0:17:24.142 You're listening to True Crime Conversations with me Jimmy Bath. 0:17:24.662 --> 0:17:33.742 I'm speaking with Jessica Laufa about the trial of Karen Reid. 0:17:34.942 --> 0:17:39.862 What is John's actual cause of death put down in 0:17:40.182 --> 0:17:41.822 his autopsy report? 0:17:42.422 --> 0:17:46.662 This is what's crazy, is that his cause of death 0:17:46.782 --> 0:17:51.862 is blunt force trauma mixed with hypothermia. So if it happened. 0:17:51.862 --> 0:17:56.142 How the prosecution says it happened is that Karen Reid 0:17:56.182 --> 0:17:59.782 backed up into John O'Keefe hit him with her car, 0:18:00.182 --> 0:18:03.702 and he laid there for six hours until someone found him. 0:18:04.222 --> 0:18:09.182 And it was freezing cold, wind whipping, snow piling up. 0:18:09.942 --> 0:18:12.822 But what's so strange about that is that there were 0:18:12.862 --> 0:18:15.782 a lot of people coming and going from this party 0:18:16.662 --> 0:18:21.622 all night. And even the plow driver who came through 0:18:21.662 --> 0:18:24.422 at two thirty in the morning has his light shining 0:18:24.422 --> 0:18:26.822 and says he never sees anything in that front lawn, 0:18:26.902 --> 0:18:29.222 and he would have noticed it because he drives this 0:18:29.342 --> 0:18:35.222 route all the time. And they never determined his manner 0:18:35.262 --> 0:18:39.862 of death, which is curious that you would try to 0:18:39.862 --> 0:18:43.262 put someone on trial for murder without a determined manner 0:18:43.302 --> 0:18:43.742 of death. 0:18:44.462 --> 0:18:48.142 And there were, as you were saying before, quite bizarre 0:18:48.182 --> 0:18:52.102 injuries on him if you consider that the prosecution thinks 0:18:52.142 --> 0:18:55.022 that he was backed into, but he had bruises on 0:18:55.102 --> 0:18:59.182 his eyes and he had weird mocks on his arms. 0:19:00.302 --> 0:19:02.582 And that's the thing is that the prosecution has an 0:19:02.622 --> 0:19:06.062 expert that testifies that these injuries are consistent with being 0:19:06.102 --> 0:19:09.302 hit by a car, But the defense has an expert 0:19:09.342 --> 0:19:11.662 that goes on and says or not this is consistent 0:19:11.702 --> 0:19:14.342 with either a fight or an attack by an animal. 0:19:14.942 --> 0:19:16.702 And there was an animal there wasn't there? 0:19:17.342 --> 0:19:20.182 There was an animal there? And is if this story 0:19:20.262 --> 0:19:22.822 is not crazy enough. Now a dog named Chloe becomes 0:19:22.902 --> 0:19:26.782 a suspect. There's a German shepherd that's been living with 0:19:26.902 --> 0:19:32.262 the Alberts for seven years, their beloved pet dog. And curiously, 0:19:33.302 --> 0:19:37.782 they rehome this dog within months of John o'keeith's death. 0:19:38.302 --> 0:19:42.142 And not only do they rehome the dog, they rehome themselves. 0:19:42.422 --> 0:19:45.422 They buy a new home, even after they had just 0:19:45.502 --> 0:19:50.262 renovated their entire basement. So a lot of curious things 0:19:50.382 --> 0:19:54.502 going on, a lot of strange coincidences, I suppose. But 0:19:55.422 --> 0:19:59.342 on the final day of the trial, before closing arguments, 0:20:00.102 --> 0:20:02.462 they have an expert go up there and say, these 0:20:02.542 --> 0:20:05.942 marks on John O'Keefe's arms are consistent with that of 0:20:06.102 --> 0:20:09.182 dog claw marks and bites, and if you look at 0:20:09.222 --> 0:20:12.542 the photos or look at other photos of dog attacks, 0:20:12.582 --> 0:20:17.742 they look exactly the same. Nobody ever examined the dog. 0:20:17.822 --> 0:20:21.222 The dog was living in Vermont, and they say that 0:20:21.302 --> 0:20:24.662 they offered up the address of the dog if they 0:20:24.702 --> 0:20:28.942 wanted to go interview her, But yeah, no one ever 0:20:29.022 --> 0:20:33.302 really followed up with this lead, and because really the 0:20:33.382 --> 0:20:35.262 crux of the story is is that they honed in 0:20:35.302 --> 0:20:40.982 on Karen Reid from day one and they wanted someone 0:20:41.022 --> 0:20:44.222 to blame this on, and they blamed it on her. 0:20:44.822 --> 0:20:49.142 Well, she was arrested in early feb initially not charged 0:20:49.182 --> 0:20:53.182 with murder, but quite quickly upgraded to murder two, which 0:20:53.382 --> 0:20:57.422 frozsies is kind of like manslaughter. On what evidence was 0:20:57.422 --> 0:21:00.462 that charge made? You've said that the prosecution claims that 0:21:00.862 --> 0:21:04.902 the car backed into John, but what was the evidence 0:21:04.902 --> 0:21:05.622 that that happened. 0:21:06.862 --> 0:21:11.422 The evidence that they claim that proves Karen Reid hit 0:21:11.542 --> 0:21:15.422 John O'Keeffe with her SUV is that there were microscopic 0:21:15.742 --> 0:21:22.182 tail light pieces found on him, and there were tail 0:21:22.262 --> 0:21:25.422 light pieces that were found around the scene underneath the snow. 0:21:25.542 --> 0:21:28.742 So after they use the leaf blower to push all 0:21:28.782 --> 0:21:31.662 the snow away, the state police finally come in with 0:21:31.742 --> 0:21:37.382 shovels and find tail light pieces underneath the snow. And 0:21:37.422 --> 0:21:39.582 so that's one of the contentious points of this case 0:21:39.622 --> 0:21:42.342 is that nobody saw any tail light pieces until the 0:21:42.342 --> 0:21:46.862 state police came in. And when you have an investigator 0:21:46.902 --> 0:21:49.422 assigned to this case, who has as much history as 0:21:49.702 --> 0:21:53.702 Trooper Proctor does. This is when the conspiracy starts to 0:21:53.982 --> 0:21:56.222 really really boil to the surface. 0:21:57.222 --> 0:22:00.302 Was there anything that directly challenged that version of events. 0:22:00.302 --> 0:22:03.942 I've seen a lot of debate about that tail light evidence. 0:22:04.942 --> 0:22:08.702 Yeah, the tail light evidence is really kind of crazy 0:22:08.742 --> 0:22:13.182 because even at the trial, the plastic bag that the 0:22:13.222 --> 0:22:16.862 tail light pieces are in multiply over time, like the 0:22:16.902 --> 0:22:19.502 pieces multiply, and so at one point there's only three, 0:22:19.622 --> 0:22:23.222 then there's five, And even over the course of the 0:22:23.262 --> 0:22:28.622 investigation of this case, they found tailight pieces near his body, 0:22:29.302 --> 0:22:33.182 then they found the microscopic pieces on him. But when 0:22:33.222 --> 0:22:36.862 you see pictures of Karen's suv, the taillight did not 0:22:37.022 --> 0:22:39.982 look as broken when they brought the car in as 0:22:39.982 --> 0:22:43.742 it did when it left there. And so there's this 0:22:44.302 --> 0:22:48.862 surveillance footage of the quote Sally Port that the Massachusetts 0:22:48.902 --> 0:22:52.822 State Police brought her suv to search it to give 0:22:52.862 --> 0:22:56.382 it a very thorough look through. And one thing that 0:22:56.462 --> 0:22:59.302 the defense notices right away is that this video appears 0:22:59.342 --> 0:23:03.062 to be inverted, and so what looks to be the 0:23:03.342 --> 0:23:07.062 passenger side is actually the driver side, and what looks 0:23:07.102 --> 0:23:09.622 to be the driver side is actually the passenger side, 0:23:09.662 --> 0:23:13.102 and supposedly it's the right rear tail light, so on 0:23:13.142 --> 0:23:17.862 the passenger side that's broken, and on the video you 0:23:18.062 --> 0:23:22.702 see two people walk by and appear to be fiddling 0:23:22.742 --> 0:23:25.662 with something. But because this looks like it might be 0:23:25.902 --> 0:23:30.822 the driver's side, nobody's really thinking anything of it until 0:23:30.862 --> 0:23:33.662 it's pointed out in the trial that no, this video 0:23:33.702 --> 0:23:35.622 is inverted. They see the number on the wall, the 0:23:35.662 --> 0:23:39.102 four is backwards on the police cruiser is backwards, and 0:23:39.182 --> 0:23:45.502 so it's very, very, very complicated. What they're implying through 0:23:45.542 --> 0:23:48.822 all of this is that Trooper Procter planted evidence and 0:23:48.862 --> 0:23:51.462 purposely broke the tail light and brought the tail light 0:23:51.462 --> 0:23:54.662 pieces back to the scene to plant in the snow 0:23:55.342 --> 0:23:57.502 to frame Karen Read for this murder. 0:23:57.742 --> 0:24:01.702 Which is a huge thing to accuse local law enforcement 0:24:01.742 --> 0:24:02.342 of doing right. 0:24:03.942 --> 0:24:09.022 It's not unheard of. There's a history in this area 0:24:09.142 --> 0:24:13.302 of not trusting lawn. A lot of people don't trust authority, 0:24:13.342 --> 0:24:15.782 a lot of people don't trust the police, and so 0:24:17.022 --> 0:24:21.142 you have like two sides forming do you trust the 0:24:21.222 --> 0:24:25.262 police investigating this case, or do you believe that this 0:24:25.302 --> 0:24:28.102 woman is being railroaded in the death of her cop 0:24:28.142 --> 0:24:33.022 boyfriend but it's not unheard of for this area to 0:24:33.142 --> 0:24:39.862 be suspicious of these investigators, and turns out a lot 0:24:39.902 --> 0:24:43.142 of them were right based on what happens after the trial. 0:24:44.182 --> 0:24:48.942 But what reason would these cops have to frame her? 0:24:49.142 --> 0:24:52.142 What do they say happened? The defense to John. 0:24:53.502 --> 0:24:57.542 The defens's theory of what happened that night is that 0:24:58.302 --> 0:25:01.942 Karen drops John O'Keeffe off at the Alberts. He goes 0:25:01.982 --> 0:25:08.302 into the house and is immediately confronted by people in 0:25:08.342 --> 0:25:12.302 the basement of the Albut at home, there's a weight 0:25:12.382 --> 0:25:15.462