Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Seek. The great
Speaker 1: job Boom is upon us and there's never been a
Speaker 1: better time to take the next step in your path. Yay.
Speaker 2: We have spring, summer, autumn, and winter, and we adapt
Speaker 2: and change with every single season. As human beings, we
Speaker 2: are actually geared toward change. I just think we forget it.
Speaker 2: I think for so many of us we wait until
Speaker 2: that final moment where it is so devastating for us
Speaker 2: or our relationships or our health that then we think, oh,
Speaker 2: now I need to go, and we don't need to
Speaker 2: wait that long Stephen our Covey that says that we
Speaker 2: get to the top of the ladder and then we
Speaker 2: realize either it was the wrong ladder or the ladder
Speaker 2: was up against the wrong wall.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Seas the YA Podcast. Busy and happy
Speaker 1: are not the same thing. We too rarely question what
Speaker 1: makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but
Speaker 1: rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than
Speaker 1: one way. So this is a platform to hear and
Speaker 1: explore the stories of those who found lives. They adore
Speaker 1: the good, bad and ugly. The best, worst day will
Speaker 1: bear all the facets of seizing your Yea. I'm Sarah
Speaker 1: Davidson or Spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned unentrepreneur who
Speaker 1: swapped the suits and heels to co found matcha Maiden
Speaker 1: and matcha Milk Bar. Sez the Ya is a series
Speaker 1: of conversations on finding a life you love and exploring
Speaker 1: the self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment along the way.
Speaker 1: Lovely Yighborhood. I'm so excited to present our next mini
Speaker 1: series in partnership with Seek. It's brought me so much
Speaker 1: yea to mix up the format and zoom in on
Speaker 1: particular facets of seizing your yea. So allow me to
Speaker 1: introduce Finders Seekers. You've all heard me rave on and
Speaker 1: on about how life unravels in many different chapters, and
Speaker 1: how the most uncomfortable, scary changes in our lives are
Speaker 1: usually the most transformative and exciting. One of the many
Speaker 1: silver linings of an otherwise undesirable few years is the
Speaker 1: opportunity to clear the slate of habit and obligation to
Speaker 1: actively seek those changes you've always dreamed of. And there
Speaker 1: truly is no better time than now, with more jobs
Speaker 1: around than ever before, but less applications per job ad
Speaker 1: driven by a shortage of candidates. The great job boom
Speaker 1: is upon us, and yet forty five percent of ossies
Speaker 1: are worried their skills and resume won't stack up against
Speaker 1: other Aussies. So in Finders Seekers, we have a host
Speaker 1: of amazing guests, from coaches to entrepreneurs to help kick
Speaker 1: those nays to the curve and turn them into ya's
Speaker 1: by making your next move today. I am thrilled to
Speaker 1: welcome Kemmy neck for Pill as our very first guest
Speaker 1: who returns to the show for the second time, and
Speaker 1: how lucky are we to have her again. If you've
Speaker 1: ever heard Kemmy speak before, you'll understand why she is
Speaker 1: one of my favorite people to chat with. You just
Speaker 1: can't leave her presence without feeling enlightened, empowered, and truly inspired.
Speaker 1: Go back to episode fifty to hear her full backstory,
Speaker 1: but to quickly recap Kemy embodies the idea of the
Speaker 1: nonlinear path yer, spending her childhood with five different foster
Speaker 1: families with as many different careers following, covering stage and television, acting,
Speaker 1: professional baking, and yoga teaching, all this before finding her
Speaker 1: calling as a speaker, coach and author of two brilliant books,
Speaker 1: The Gift of Asking and published only recently Power. Consider
Speaker 1: yourselves very lucky, yebahood to have an hour of Kemy's time.
Speaker 1: Her coaching is highly sought after, and if you've ever
Speaker 1: been considering making a change towards seizing your yay, she
Speaker 1: is a woman you need to hear from. Without further ado,
Speaker 1: Kemmy neck for pill lovely Kemmy, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 1: It is so wonderful to have you on. I think
Speaker 1: this is your second time. Now is your third? No
Speaker 1: second time?
Speaker 2: It is. Maybe it feels like my third, but it
Speaker 2: is definitely only my second. I look forward to the third.
Speaker 2: It is a pleasure to be here with you again, sir.
Speaker 1: For those who haven't heard Kemy's incredible story, you can
Speaker 1: go back to episode fifty to hear it sort of
Speaker 1: in more detail in our normal structure. But I just
Speaker 1: felt it would be so remiss of me not to
Speaker 1: have you on this particular mini series because in terms
Speaker 1: of the concept of constant change and upgrading and pivots
Speaker 1: and life not going in a linear fashion. You know
Speaker 1: all those kinds of things, not only in your own story,
Speaker 1: but also as a coach. I feel so very lucky
Speaker 1: to have you here, So thank you so much for joining.
Speaker 2: No, thank you so much for having me. I'm really
Speaker 2: excited about this conversation because you're right, there is so
Speaker 2: much change going on right now, and yet it can
Speaker 2: scare us so much. So these are opportunities for us
Speaker 2: to look at our mindset around change.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. So, maybe just for those who haven't listened to
Speaker 1: episode fifty, for a little bit of context before we
Speaker 1: kick off, can you tell us a bit about what
Speaker 1: your youngest self first was seeking to become so that
Speaker 1: we know kind of how far it ended up twisting
Speaker 1: and turning from there. I think it was acting to
Speaker 1: begin with.
Speaker 2: No, it was baking, O.
Speaker 1: Baking became four, that's right, baking, acting, yoga.
Speaker 3: Lots of careers, yeah, lots of careers.
Speaker 2: And I think one thing I knew because I actually
Speaker 2: had a childhood that was full of change, I think
Speaker 2: it was in some way a grounding that made me
Speaker 2: realize that we can survive change. So even though as
Speaker 2: a child I didn't choose to change, as an adult,
Speaker 2: I could, and I think I just had that kind
Speaker 2: of internal resilience to know change is scary. Change can
Speaker 2: make us feel really uncertain. It makes us question our
Speaker 2: identity and our value. And yet I know for myself
Speaker 2: that any of the changes that I have made, especially
Speaker 2: the hardest ones, they have always been worth it. So yes,
Speaker 2: started off as a baker when I left school, went
Speaker 2: from baking into acting, went from acting back to chefing,
Speaker 2: then went from chefing to yoga teacher. From yoga teacher
Speaker 2: to mother, which is one of the biggest changes and
Speaker 2: pivots for those of us that are parents. From mother
Speaker 2: to becoming a business owner, then from a business owner
Speaker 2: sort of becoming an entrepreneur, and then now as we speak,
Speaker 2: an executive, personal coach, author and speaker. So that's my
Speaker 2: portfolio career of change to this point. Oh and as
Speaker 2: you know, I'm also stepping into the world of flower farming. Yes, yes,
Speaker 2: so that is another level of change, you know, and
Speaker 2: I'm happy to go further into that because anything, you know,
Speaker 2: I have no idea how to be a flower farmer.
Speaker 2: And yet I think, because I'm a coach, I know
Speaker 2: that I don't need to know how, and I'm aware
Speaker 2: for myself and for my clients of those same reoccurring
Speaker 2: feelings and questions that we have when we're stepping into
Speaker 2: something new, or when we're leaving something that we're very
Speaker 2: comfortable with.
Speaker 1: Yes, oh my gosh. And this is why you're just
Speaker 1: the perfect person to speak to because you do bring
Speaker 1: so many different perspectives to that question of why are
Speaker 1: we by default averse to changing our pathways? But why
Speaker 1: do we need to? And what are some of the
Speaker 1: things we can expect when you are upon a change,
Speaker 1: like whether it's I think it's interesting that you distinguish
Speaker 1: between changes that happen to you, which can force you
Speaker 1: to learn to embrace the discomfort of change, but then
Speaker 1: also the fact that you can choose those changes as well,
Speaker 1: which we'll get into with some statistics. What do you
Speaker 1: see as the most common barriers to change? Is it fear?
Speaker 1: Is it comfort? If it something from your book that
Speaker 1: we'll get into as well, was learning to make yourself small,
Speaker 1: doing the right thing? What do you think of the
Speaker 1: biggest barriers.
Speaker 2: It's so interesting because being a coach, you know, I
Speaker 2: work with various clients that will come to me with
Speaker 2: you know, different initial reasons of why they want to
Speaker 2: work with me. Either it's around their leadership, or it's
Speaker 2: around personal life, entrepreneurship, or it's a mix of all
Speaker 2: of those together, and I would say that there are
Speaker 2: definitely there's not necessarily one particular obstacle, but they're definitely
Speaker 2: within the realm of what you're talking about. So that idea,
Speaker 2: especially for people that have spent a long time training
Speaker 2: in one particular profession, it can feel like I have
Speaker 2: spent seven years in law or ten years in the
Speaker 2: medical environment, like am I going to throw all of
Speaker 2: that away to now start something new? And what I
Speaker 2: end up exploring with those clients is you don't throw
Speaker 2: away seven years of working within that industry or ten
Speaker 2: years within that industry. You look at what are the
Speaker 2: skills that you've had within that industry that you can
Speaker 2: now bring to a new and day. So I think
Speaker 2: we forget what we have learnt along the way, and
Speaker 2: that actually a lot of employers are now looking for
Speaker 2: people that can bring certain skills. They're not so much
Speaker 2: looking for what was your training, It's like who are
Speaker 2: you and what are the skills that you bring. Another
Speaker 2: one is definitely when it comes to gender, So with women,
Speaker 2: I think we all know the statistics that if a
Speaker 2: man sees a job ad and they feel that they
Speaker 2: can do sixty percent of the job. They're like, yep,
Speaker 2: I'm in. I'm the one. It is me and a
Speaker 2: woman that needs to feel that she has to be
Speaker 2: one hundred percent all of the boxes in that job
Speaker 2: application before she applies. So that is definitely an obstacle
Speaker 2: for women that we feel that we this internal critic
Speaker 2: or this internal voice of I'm not smart enough, I'm
Speaker 2: not old enough, I'm not young enough, I'm not good enough,
Speaker 2: i don't know enough, constantly going around in our head.
Speaker 2: And I'd also say that we have somehow been I
Speaker 2: don't want to say lied to. Let me just say
Speaker 2: that the societal structures that we have around jobs is
Speaker 2: this idea that change isn't an expected thing. But actually
Speaker 2: we've always been part of change because we're humans and
Speaker 2: we live within seasons. For those of us especially that
Speaker 2: live in places that have seasons, we have spring, summer, autumn,
Speaker 2: and winter, and we adapt and change with every single season.
Speaker 2: As human beings, we are actually geared toward change. I
Speaker 2: just think we forget it.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that is so powerful. This is why
Speaker 1: you're one of my very very favorite people to speak to,
Speaker 1: and every time I am in your presence, I feel
Speaker 1: like even the things I knew already you kind of
Speaker 1: open my mind up again to how they can apply
Speaker 1: and how it can break through the things that aren't
Speaker 1: really useful for us. And it's the statistic you mentioned
Speaker 1: about men and women applying for new jobs is one
Speaker 1: of my favorite statistics to share. But I also learned
Speaker 1: a new one recently in the context of this particular
Speaker 1: mini series, which is that all of those factors combined
Speaker 1: have led to sixty one percent of Australians not wanting
Speaker 1: to change jobs in the next twelve months, which alarms
Speaker 1: me because I think of the terrible couple of years
Speaker 1: we've had, we've also had an amazing opportunity to clear
Speaker 1: the slate. And when nothing is certain, you know anything
Speaker 1: is possible. You can choose really to do anything you want.
Speaker 1: We've kind of had the chance to stop the momentum
Speaker 1: of habit and stop the momentum of obligation to choose.
Speaker 1: You know, where we want to be and what we
Speaker 1: want to do. So having said all that, you have
Speaker 1: yourself gone through lots of different changes, and I think
Speaker 1: having read you've just released your third book called Power
Speaker 1: and very aptly a Woman's Guide to Living and leading
Speaker 1: without apology. And I think one of the things that
Speaker 1: comes with the self doubt and everything is our conditioning,
Speaker 1: our societal conditioning to make ourselves small to do what
Speaker 1: other people expect of us. The quote that you shared
Speaker 1: in your introduction was the most common way people give
Speaker 1: away their power is by thinking they don't have any.
Speaker 1: So for you personally, how has that played out for you?
Speaker 1: How did you give away your power earlier, miss out
Speaker 1: on some of your biggest pivots, and then how did
Speaker 1: you learn to break that down to do all the
Speaker 1: changes you have so far?
Speaker 2: Yeah, great question and sort of multi laid, and I'm
Speaker 2: really happy to go in there, But I just want
Speaker 2: to go back to what you said around this time
Speaker 2: of change that we're in right now, because in the
Speaker 2: same way I think that we you forget that actually
Speaker 2: human beings, we are geared towards change. If anyone has
Speaker 2: been through any form of lockdown, if you have been
Speaker 2: locked in your house, on your own or with family members,
Speaker 2: there is not much that you cannot do, you know,
Speaker 2: Like I think we forget the resilience that we've also
Speaker 2: had to build over the last two years, and that
Speaker 2: we can be resourceful around that, So I just wanted
Speaker 2: to kind of put that in there in terms of
Speaker 2: look at the skills that we have gained in the
Speaker 2: last two years. So much has been thrown up in
Speaker 2: the air. This is actually a perfect time for some
Speaker 2: people to think, well, you know, that's all happened, I
Speaker 2: might as well just change it up now. But in
Speaker 2: answer to your question, yes, so you know, as women,
Speaker 2: we give up power all the time. We have it
Speaker 2: taken away from us all the time, and we're strategic
Speaker 2: we give it away too, you know, we know, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: this is the best time for me to kind of
Speaker 2: just step back and play small, to be good, to
Speaker 2: not say the wrong thing, to not use my voice.
Speaker 2: And yet we've seen in so many different arenas around
Speaker 2: the world that when women do step into spaces and
Speaker 2: they share their story or they share their experience, it
Speaker 2: gives other women permission to do the same. And it's
Speaker 2: the same within the job market.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: All it takes is one member of our friend group
Speaker 2: to say, do you know what I'm done with my
Speaker 2: job and to take that next step and actually make
Speaker 2: a change for other people in that group to start thinking, oh,
Speaker 2: if they've done it, maybe I can yes, they've done it,
Speaker 2: maybe I can. And I think the other thing that
Speaker 2: we miss is that we need to ask more questions.
Speaker 2: So one thing I know as a coach is that
Speaker 2: so many of us will have a goal, and yet
Speaker 2: we talk ourselves out of it with stories that we've
Speaker 2: made up in our head about that goal. So, for
Speaker 2: an example, let's just say that I am currently working
Speaker 2: in finance, but I want to become a graphic designer.
Speaker 2: I have already decided, well, none of my skills in
Speaker 2: finance have anything to do with graphic design. I've decided
Speaker 2: that I have to go back to school for another
Speaker 2: four years. I've decided that people are going to be
Speaker 2: ten years younger than me. You know, I've just made
Speaker 2: all these decisions, and yet I haven't actually gone on
Speaker 2: to a website to check what does it take to
Speaker 2: become a graphic designer? Do I need qualifications? Can I
Speaker 2: just set up my own website and start asking family
Speaker 2: and friends at first and have a little bit of
Speaker 2: a side business before I leave my main role. Or
Speaker 2: do I want to apply for a company and they're
Speaker 2: happy to train me up as I go. I think
Speaker 2: we have to be mindful that so many of us
Speaker 2: stop ourselves because we think we need to know how
Speaker 2: before we move forward. And what I have found in
Speaker 2: my own personal life and in the experience of my clients,
Speaker 2: it's the commitment to change is actually what then sparks
Speaker 2: the how.
Speaker 1: Right, So in your I mean enormous pivots from like
Speaker 1: a cross industry. So again coming back to that, do
Speaker 1: you need to be qualified? Do you need it? Like
Speaker 1: you haven't just pivoted within a role, You've pivoted completely
Speaker 1: into whole new identities. What are some of the things
Speaker 1: you look back on now that stand out is like
Speaker 1: the things that almost toppled you, but the things you're
Speaker 1: really glad you push through and did you get better
Speaker 1: at it over time?
Speaker 2: I would say that the big and I think we
Speaker 2: talk about a little bit in the other episode, but
Speaker 2: definitely the hardest and biggest pivot I made was from
Speaker 2: being a successful actor where I could tick the box
Speaker 2: around kind of social standing and you know, financial enumeration
Speaker 2: and all of those things and all of the joys
Speaker 2: that come with being a professional actor and an actor
Speaker 2: that worked NonStop for seven years and deciding to leave
Speaker 2: that to not really know what I wanted to do
Speaker 2: for my career, but I knew two things. It wasn't
Speaker 2: making me happy, and I enjoyed playing with food more
Speaker 2: than I did standing on stage seven years. So I thought,
Speaker 2: even though I don't know what I want to do
Speaker 2: for the rest of my career, I do know that
Speaker 2: I'm happy to play with fruits and vegetables for a
Speaker 2: little while until I figure it out. Like that was it,
Speaker 2: And the reason I got to that point was because
Speaker 2: I had decided eighteen months before I actually left acting
Speaker 2: that I wanted to And as those eighteen months went on,
Speaker 2: I got unhappier and unhappier and unhappier and unhappier. And
Speaker 2: I think for so many of us, we wait until
Speaker 2: that final moment where it is so devastating for us
Speaker 2: or our relationships or our health that then we think, oh,
Speaker 2: now I need to go, and we don't need to
Speaker 2: wait that long. Yes, but in some ways I say that, though,
Speaker 2: but I'll also say that I did need to get
Speaker 2: that unhappy because in my head I was like, but
Speaker 2: what my parents think? They want me to be financially stable?
Speaker 2: I have a job that so many of my peers
Speaker 2: would want. What a lucky position I'm in. I should
Speaker 2: be grateful for this, you know, I had that going on,
Speaker 2: but ultimately it was like, am I happy? No? So
Speaker 2: am I showing up as a good actor? Am I
Speaker 2: wanting to be with my colleagues? They were great people
Speaker 2: and it was a great job, but I wasn't feeling it.
Speaker 2: So that was when I knew, for me, there is
Speaker 2: someone else that would love this opportunity, and you've had
Speaker 2: a great run for seven years and it's time for
Speaker 2: you to get uncomfortable. But I didn't have support from
Speaker 2: many people around me, and that was hard.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so interesting that you brought up the concept
Speaker 1: of gratitude because I think it's wonderful. Of course, gratitude
Speaker 1: is such a valuable practice, but I think sometimes it
Speaker 1: can blind you to wanting more because you think I'm
Speaker 1: so grateful to have anything at all. Other people would
Speaker 1: covert this position. That definitely kept me in law because
Speaker 1: I was like, how can I be so ungrateful to
Speaker 1: want more? But it's actually okay to want something different
Speaker 1: even if your needs are met in the role that
Speaker 1: you're in. And the other thing you mentioned that I
Speaker 1: love is that it took you to get particularly uncomfortable,
Speaker 1: and so for me. I don't necessarily worry about people
Speaker 1: who are desperately unhappy, because I think you do inevitably
Speaker 1: get to that stage where it's too much and you leave.
Speaker 1: I worry about me in the law firm, who wasn't unhappy,
Speaker 1: but I was settling. And I think you don't have
Speaker 1: to settle. You can get to a point where something
Speaker 1: that is what everyone else would dream of isn't necessarily
Speaker 1: what you dream of. It's okay to walk away before
Speaker 1: it gets bad.
Speaker 2: Yeah it is. And I think that's what's so beautiful
Speaker 2: about when people share their individual and that's why I
Speaker 2: think this series is such a great idea. It's that
Speaker 2: when people start to share their stories of change or
Speaker 2: their experience of change, and maybe they sort of fell
Speaker 2: over a few times and then they picked themselves back
Speaker 2: up or somebody else picked them up or whatever it is,
Speaker 2: you start to realize, oh, okay, so I just need
Speaker 2: to kind of, you know, put my handle on the
Speaker 2: door and begin to open it, or I just need
Speaker 2: to put my foot in and then after that I'll
Speaker 2: take the next step. But you're right, it's when we
Speaker 2: just think, well, I know the door's there, but I
Speaker 2: just have to make sure I'm wearing the right glove,
Speaker 2: and that you know, I'm the right weight, and then
Speaker 2: I've got the right dress, and that I've got the
Speaker 2: right you know, qualifications and all of these things until
Speaker 2: I open the door, and then we die and the
Speaker 2: door never gets opened. And we live at a time now,
Speaker 2: especially with what's happening with the global pandemic, where we
Speaker 2: are expected to change and grow. And I think that's
Speaker 2: one thing we miss is that as human beings. And
Speaker 2: it sounds cliched, and I do believe in cliches. I
Speaker 2: think that's why they became cliches.
Speaker 1: I'm with you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Otherwise people wouldn't keep saying them.
Speaker 3: That wouldn't keep saying that if they weren't true.
Speaker 2: That's just not how it would work. Everyone would just go, oh,
Speaker 2: that's not true, and that'll be the end of it.
Speaker 2: So appreciate of you know, if we're not growing, then
Speaker 2: we die. I have grown through my life, you know.
Speaker 2: So if we're into professional and personal growth, which I
Speaker 2: believe that, you know, some of us are consciously, some
Speaker 2: of us are unconsciously, but I definitely think it's a
Speaker 2: space most of us would want to step into that
Speaker 2: I don't want to be the same person as I
Speaker 2: was last year at this time last year. I hope
Speaker 2: that I've changed and I've grown. I've learned things, and
Speaker 2: I've made mistakes and I've learned from those. But you know,
Speaker 2: we should be growing. So the career that we chose
Speaker 2: at eighteen, if we're still doing that same career like
Speaker 2: quite a few years later, You're right, we're kind of stagnating.
Speaker 2: We're just kind of sitting in this world. This is
Speaker 2: what I know, I'll just stay here. And yet the
Speaker 2: job market has changed so much now that we have
Speaker 2: the ability to go, Okay, I'm going to step into
Speaker 2: something different. You know, I'm now ten years in this career.
Speaker 2: I'm now seven years in this career. I'm now thirty years,
Speaker 2: twenty years, and I think I've built up enough skills
Speaker 2: to know what I want to know the value that
Speaker 2: I bring, and I'm ready to open another door.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I love that you touched on that, because
Speaker 1: that is a really big thing I want to emphasize
Speaker 1: that I wasn't aware of actually that you know, there
Speaker 1: are more jobs on the market than there have been
Speaker 1: in a really long time, but less candidates and less
Speaker 1: less of a pool available than there ever has been before.
Speaker 1: So it's actually the perfect time to be putting yourself
Speaker 1: forward for something that you know, an opportunity you might
Speaker 1: never have thought was for you. Because you know there
Speaker 1: are more jobs around. It's the great job boom. It's
Speaker 1: the perfect time to take advantage of this. But something
Speaker 1: that's really interesting about what you mentioned about moving away
Speaker 1: from acting when it was really you were at the
Speaker 1: pinnacle of that ladder within that industry, and that's that
Speaker 1: you jumped without knowing what you were jumping to. So
Speaker 1: on top of the fear of change, there's the fear
Speaker 1: of the unknown change. There's a fear of like could
Speaker 1: it go wrong? Financial security, I think is a really
Speaker 1: big one. As you mentioned becoming a mother. You know,
Speaker 1: we're not in a vacuum. A lot of people have
Speaker 1: children who there dependents. You know, they've got obligations. There's
Speaker 1: so much to keep in your mind as a concern
Speaker 1: when you don't know what the next step is. I'm
Speaker 1: sure you see this with your clients all the time.
Speaker 1: How do you kind of talk people through like I
Speaker 1: know that the book is so methodical in the way
Speaker 1: you lay out the five power principles. As a way
Speaker 1: to take control in those situations, live up to our
Speaker 1: power rather than give it away. How do you move
Speaker 1: people through those fears and uncertainties but encourage them to
Speaker 1: do it anyway, because you don't want them to miss
Speaker 1: all the chance for this unique cultural phenomenon. You don't
Speaker 1: want to look back in ten years and think there
Speaker 1: was no better time to do that.
Speaker 3: Why didn't I do it?
Speaker 2: And I love so I didn't know those statistics either,
Speaker 2: you know, I didn't know that this. There's this great
Speaker 2: job pool now at the same time obviously as the
Speaker 2: great resignation. So it's kind of like a lot of
Speaker 2: people are realizing they want more and there are these
Speaker 2: jobs available now that were never available before. So couple
Speaker 2: of things. One, I got to a point in my
Speaker 2: acting career when my agent at the time said to me,
Speaker 2: where now at a point that we need to start
Speaker 2: doing auditions in Hollywood? And that was when I think
Speaker 2: about it. That was a time when I realized I
Speaker 2: don't want the next level of this. Yes, because that's
Speaker 2: the other thing is And it's Stephen our Covey that
Speaker 2: says that we get to the top of the ladder
Speaker 2: and then we realize either it was the wrong ladder
Speaker 2: or the ladder was up against the wrong wall, and
Speaker 2: I just knew, Yeah, there's your quote.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm like a moment for this. I need to
Speaker 1: write down the times down for this is the quote
Speaker 1: I'm pulling out.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean, I think it's one of the
Speaker 2: quotes that stuck to me so much. With the habits
Speaker 2: of highly effective people, you know that we need to
Speaker 2: take the time to check is this the ladder? Is
Speaker 2: this the right wall? Because whatever point we are in
Speaker 2: in our life, we are using resources all the time,
Speaker 2: whether that is life energy, internal resources, external resources, So
Speaker 2: it's important to keep checking in is this where I
Speaker 2: want to be? This was the right ladder four years ago?
Speaker 2: Is it still the right ladder? If it is fantastic?
Speaker 2: And I'm going to segue with ladders now, I'm quite
Speaker 2: toughed with myself into what you said around people taking
Speaker 2: the leap. So this is a really interesting thing. And
Speaker 2: in some ways this is a difference between being a
Speaker 2: coach and being a consultant. So it's important for me
Speaker 2: that I don't have an agenda with my clients. They
Speaker 2: have an agenda and I am there to support them,
Speaker 2: but I am very open to their agenda changing, and
Speaker 2: my job is for them to really understand who they are,
Speaker 2: not who they think they should be. So what I
Speaker 2: might say to a client in the situation where they
Speaker 2: want to move from one profession to the next, or
Speaker 2: look at a promotion within the industry that they're in,
Speaker 2: whatever it is, I will say to them, would you
Speaker 2: consider yourself to be someone that is happy to look
Speaker 2: at the edge of a cliff and just run for
Speaker 2: it and give it everything and jump off and you
Speaker 2: just trust there's going to be a mattress at the bottom.
Speaker 2: Or are you someone that wants to go to the cliff,
Speaker 2: look over, see how far down you have to go.
Speaker 2: You want to take your time to find the perfect
Speaker 2: wood to build the perfect ladder that you're going to
Speaker 2: climb down when you're ready. You've sourced your mattress, it's
Speaker 2: all eco fibers, it's ready there for you, so that
Speaker 2: when land, it's there for you. And I think it's
Speaker 2: very important that we under and obviously there are gray
Speaker 2: areas in between, but it this kind of gives peop
Speaker 2: a little bit of an idea because some people think
Speaker 2: they should jump and as you say, when there are
Speaker 2: actual financial responsibilities. It can be hard for some people
Speaker 2: to jump. They're like, that doesn't feel responsible for me,
Speaker 2: And that's kind of the fifth power principle is responsibility.
Speaker 2: They may think it is not the responsible thing as
Speaker 2: a parent to just jump. But I am willing to
Speaker 2: over the next six months or over the next six years,
Speaker 2: work out and exit plan, or start looking at jobs
Speaker 2: and maybe have some interviews so I can start to
Speaker 2: see what is out there and where my skills are
Speaker 2: now relevant at this time. So understanding who we are
Speaker 2: as we step into new opportunities and new job opportunities
Speaker 2: is really really important.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and I think that's one of the things I
Speaker 1: maybe didn't emphasize enough in the earliest days of CZ.
Speaker 1: THEAI was very pro leave your job, find your passion,
Speaker 1: do you, which is a very big part of the message.
Speaker 1: But it's also within the matrix of what is going to,
Speaker 1: you know, remove pain and struggle and enhance freedom and joy.
Speaker 1: And if you leave your job in a terrible financial matrix,
Speaker 1: it's not going to cause joy for you, you know,
Speaker 1: so it has to be right for you. And that's
Speaker 1: also why the entrepreneurial pathway is something I wanted to
Speaker 1: emphasize a lot because of the great job boom that
Speaker 1: some people are terribly suited to running their own business.
Speaker 1: Some people really wouldn't thrive in that scenario. And there
Speaker 1: are so many people who I speak to who have
Speaker 1: maybe even more potential for creativity and growth within a
Speaker 1: company than they would outside of it. So do you
Speaker 1: find with your clients that you get like an equal
Speaker 1: number of people within a corporate structure as you do
Speaker 1: in business? Is a bit of both. Do they face
Speaker 1: similar or different challenges? And is your advice the same?
Speaker 2: Well, I work with entrepreneurs and people thin the corporate
Speaker 2: because I want to have a diverse coaching practice and
Speaker 2: I love, you know, supporting and walking alongside clients depending
Speaker 2: on where they are. I think for women, the level
Speaker 2: of self doubt sometimes can be the same regardless of
Speaker 2: the industry and that idea of giving away power. So
Speaker 2: maybe for an entrepreneur, someone hasn't paid, you know, a supply,
Speaker 2: hasn't paid something on time, and they're too scared to
Speaker 2: follow up because they think that they may not be
Speaker 2: liked even if they have given the service and everything
Speaker 2: that they may think, oh but they might not like me.
Speaker 2: They might think I'm pushing. I'm like, no, they might
Speaker 2: just think that they need to pay you the money
Speaker 2: for the service that you gave them, you know. And
Speaker 2: then in terms of court put it, maybe that a
Speaker 2: woman has spent I've worked with her for a while
Speaker 2: to get into a particular room, so let's just say
Speaker 2: that's a particular leadership level. But then once she's in
Speaker 2: the room, she then has this fear of actually speaking
Speaker 2: in that room. So then it's like, so, what does
Speaker 2: power look like for you? The second power principle is ownership.
Speaker 2: It's like owning that you are in that room for
Speaker 2: a reason, and owning that your voice matters. If it didn't,
Speaker 2: you wouldn't be in the room. You know. The corporate
Speaker 2: structure in some way so systemic that no one's in
Speaker 2: a room by accident. You're bare for a reason, so
Speaker 2: why would you not capitalize on that reason. So in
Speaker 2: some ways, yes, it's the same in that we're always
Speaker 2: happened to look at what our internal story is. But
Speaker 2: they're dealing with different day to day challenges in those environments.
Speaker 1: And I found it really interesting that in the subheading
Speaker 1: of the book is the concept of a Woman's Guide
Speaker 1: to Living without apology, which must mean that living with
Speaker 1: apology is something that's more widespread, probably than we understand.
Speaker 1: Even though looking at my own journey, I can see
Speaker 1: how many times I am the biggest overapologizer, the biggest appeaser,
Speaker 1: you know. And I've had to really talk about conditioning before.
Speaker 1: It's something I have absolutely been conditioned towards because I
Speaker 1: don't like confrontation. I like to keep the water smooth.
Speaker 1: I liked everyone to be happy, and I mean obviously
Speaker 1: sees the a I want yay joy like rainbows and love,
Speaker 1: but sometimes that's not going to get you anywhere.
Speaker 2: No, because of the weight, the weight of being burdened
Speaker 2: with making everyone happy. Let's just take that, Just think
Speaker 2: of that for a moment, like, how is it even
Speaker 2: possible for us to make everybody happy?
Speaker 1: And I feel like I've learned the only way you
Speaker 1: can do that is by being nobody or everybody And
Speaker 1: in that if I'm doing that, then I'm not actually
Speaker 1: sticking to anything, because if everyone around me is happy,
Speaker 1: I'm obviously shape shifting and not like losing myself in
Speaker 1: how many different ways I'm trying to you know, So
Speaker 1: on that note for women in particular, but I think
Speaker 1: for anyone really who's navigating applying for new positions, balancing
Speaker 1: assertiveness to put themselves forward for these new positions, whether
Speaker 1: within a company or between jobs or industries, assertiveness versus
Speaker 1: feeling comfortable that you're not tooting your own horn too much.
Speaker 1: Like there's such a hard matrix and fine line between
Speaker 1: assertiveness and likability, particularly for women. There's owning your power,
Speaker 1: but being humble about your power. There's just so much
Speaker 1: much like, how do you encourage people to drop the
Speaker 1: self doubt but still navigate not pushing too hard or
Speaker 1: not not being themselves either because you know, I like
Speaker 1: my seizing my power is a lot less assertive probably
Speaker 1: than the next person because I'm like a bit softer,
Speaker 1: but I still you know what I mean, how do
Speaker 1: you help people find that nice middle ground.
Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing about how I you know, how
Speaker 2: I've done the book, and I think it's good to
Speaker 2: probably share with the listeners what the five principles after
Speaker 2: they've kind of dipped into it.
Speaker 1: Two.
Speaker 2: So the first one is presence, the second is ownership,
Speaker 2: the third is wisdom, the fourth is equality, and the
Speaker 2: fifth is responsibility. And I wrote this book so that
Speaker 2: we as women can look at a different form of
Speaker 2: power than maybe the power that we think of. Most
Speaker 2: of us don't wake up and think, oh, I wonder
Speaker 2: my relationship.
Speaker 1: With power is you do.
Speaker 2: Well? I have gathered information over a period of time,
Speaker 2: you know, to kind of look at what is it
Speaker 2: the world needs from women right now? You know, we
Speaker 2: have these incredible opportunities, but we don't feel that we
Speaker 2: can stand in them. And this form of power that
Speaker 2: I talk about is not about power over and dominating
Speaker 2: other people. It very much comes from the Oxford Dictionary definition,
Speaker 2: which is that power is the ability to act or
Speaker 2: do something in a particular way. And when we look
Speaker 2: at it like that, it means we all have power
Speaker 2: in different situations. And what I'd like to share because
Speaker 2: I really don't give advice as a coach, but I
Speaker 2: do share stories. So just to speak to what you
Speaker 2: just said, something that just came to mind is that
Speaker 2: when I would go for auditions as an actor, I
Speaker 2: knew that when I walked out of that room, even
Speaker 2: if I wasn't chosen for the role, that I didn't
Speaker 2: have a conversation in my head of oh I could
Speaker 2: have been more like this, Oh I should have been
Speaker 2: more like this. Oh I should have been more assertive.
Speaker 2: Oh I could have been a little bit more, because
Speaker 2: that's just what I call eating your brain like, it's
Speaker 2: just exhausting. I wanted to be able to go in
Speaker 2: present myself as myself who I was at that time,
Speaker 2: in my early to mid twenties, and you know, read
Speaker 2: the scripts and do what they asked of me. But
Speaker 2: that once I walked out of that room, I was like, Yep,
Speaker 2: you showed up. You showed who you were. You know,
Speaker 2: you said you might if you're nervous, you say, I'm
Speaker 2: really nervous being here today, or I can't believe I'm
Speaker 2: here today, or you know, I would just share who
Speaker 2: I was with them, and when I left, I couldn't
Speaker 2: be any more or any less of myself. I think
Speaker 2: once we start to, as you say, the shape shifting,
Speaker 2: we're actually starting to manipulate the environment and the people
Speaker 2: in front of us. We're trying to make ourselves more
Speaker 2: of something so they will say yes to us. But
Speaker 2: what happens if we're not really that more of something
Speaker 2: and they've hired that more of something and every day
Speaker 2: you go into work, you have to bring the thing
Speaker 2: that isn't actually you anyway? You know that is Yeah,
Speaker 2: you're not even getting on the ladder then, because then
Speaker 2: you're already starting with a manipulated version of yourself to
Speaker 2: get the yes for a person that you're not. And
Speaker 2: it gets very complex once you get into that kind
Speaker 2: of work environment.
Speaker 1: Lovely yighborhood. You all know how excited I get about
Speaker 1: life unraveling in chapters and how uncertainty is the greatest
Speaker 1: platform for opportunity. After a few tough years, the great
Speaker 1: job boom is upon us and there has never been
Speaker 1: a better time to start the next step in your path.
Speaker 2: Ya.
Speaker 1: We talk at length on this show about the obstacles
Speaker 1: to change, and the statistics are real. Forty five percent,
Speaker 1: nearly half of OSSI's are worried their skills and resume
Speaker 1: won't stuck up against other Aussies. Fifty nine percent are
Speaker 1: worried that if they change jobs, it might not be
Speaker 1: the right role or company for them. But if you
Speaker 1: let your mind worry that there's a risk it won't
Speaker 1: work out, logic consists that you must also accept that
Speaker 1: it could also work out better than you had ever dreamed.
Speaker 1: Plus the numbers are on your side in March. Job
Speaker 1: ads on sequel up thirty two percent compared to the
Speaker 1: same time last year and fifty one percent compared to
Speaker 1: pre pandemic levels, but job applications per job ad are
Speaker 1: down forty two percent compared to pre pandemic levels. So
Speaker 1: there are more jobs but less competition than ever before.
Speaker 1: So if you're looking to change Pathia's head on over
Speaker 1: to seek and take advantage of the great job boom.
Speaker 1: Something else that I think you have really helped me
Speaker 1: with is that idea of rejection. Like in any situation
Speaker 1: where you're going to be putting yourself out there for
Speaker 1: newness or growth opportunities, it will almost unfailingly involve quite
Speaker 1: a few no's before you get a yes. Sometimes the
Speaker 1: nose are because you know the universe is redirecting you
Speaker 1: towards a thing that is actually suited for you. Sometimes
Speaker 1: you won't know the reason why you've got to know.
Speaker 1: But if you have come to that opportunity with everything
Speaker 1: that you are and nothing else, then I agree you
Speaker 1: walk away from the rejection going, you know what, that
Speaker 1: wasn't for me, Because if I came as who I
Speaker 1: am and it didn't suit, then it wasn't for me.
Speaker 1: It still hurts, it's still uncomfortable. Yes, how do you
Speaker 1: coach your clients and relating it back to the idea
Speaker 1: of the power dynamic in that suite situation through rejection
Speaker 1: to get to the yes, that is the one that's
Speaker 1: meant for you.
Speaker 2: Well, you've already named it, actually, and that is the
Speaker 2: owning that it hurts. So one be present, be present
Speaker 2: to the feeling like it just feels horrible to be rejected.
Speaker 2: And I think we have a society. It's like, oh no, no,
Speaker 2: let's find the silver lining, let's find the lesson. No,
Speaker 2: just be devastated, like eat ice cream, go and lot
Speaker 2: yourself in the cupboard and feel devastated and own it
Speaker 2: and just be with wow, this is hard. But also
Speaker 2: then we can also sit that alongside with why am
Speaker 2: I doing this? So this is hard, but it's not
Speaker 2: as hard as being in a professional in a job
Speaker 2: that is sucking the life out of me and has
Speaker 2: been for the last few years. You know, like, yes,
Speaker 2: this hurts, I need to call a friend, I need
Speaker 2: to do whatever it is I need to do. But
Speaker 2: that actually, I'm going to get up and I'm going
Speaker 2: to get back out there again because my life is
Speaker 2: important to me. And when we think about how much
Speaker 2: time we spend at work, it is so important that
Speaker 2: we craft a life. And that's the thing about responsibility,
Speaker 2: that is, it is our responsibility to craft the work
Speaker 2: environments that allow us to show up and give what
Speaker 2: we have to give. And if we're not taking responsibility
Speaker 2: for that, there's nothing wrong about that. As a coach,
Speaker 2: I just call that feedback. We'll just find ourselves in
Speaker 2: default careers, living to the expectations of other people, living
Speaker 2: to the expectations of our bosses. And you know, I've
Speaker 2: had quite a few people say to me that they
Speaker 2: basically looked at the boss that was above them or
Speaker 2: the big boss, you know, the CEO, and just thought, hmm,
Speaker 2: do I want their life? Oh, that's the ladder moment.
Speaker 2: That's the ladder moment again. It's like I'm climbing a ladder,
Speaker 2: But when I look at the person at the top
Speaker 2: of the ladder, is that what I want? The way
Speaker 2: that they speak to people, or the way that they
Speaker 2: don't see their family, or the way that they don't
Speaker 2: have any hobbies, or the fact that they don't sleep
Speaker 2: or they don't look after themselves, or they're drinking every night,
Speaker 2: like once again, to give ourselves the opportunity to be
Speaker 2: present to what is working in my life, what is
Speaker 2: not working in my life. And then the ultimate power
Speaker 2: is taking responsibility for both celebrating what is working, because
Speaker 2: obviously some people listening to this are in their dream jobs,
Speaker 2: you know, and I always say, if you're in your
Speaker 2: dream job, that is not an accident. You know, that
Speaker 2: is not an accident. You have worked out what you've
Speaker 2: wanted and you have managed to create that. And then
Speaker 2: for other people, it is a case of oh, okay,
Speaker 2: when I look at what's not working, it's actually the
Speaker 2: people that I work with. I don't know how you were, Sarah,
Speaker 2: when you first sort of got into work, but I
Speaker 2: remember when I was sort of temping as a young
Speaker 2: you know, just sort of when you're at college and
Speaker 2: various things. I remember going to one job and this
Speaker 2: kind of shows this is quite a long time ago
Speaker 2: because VHS VHS videos I was going into like a factory.
Speaker 2: I had to stick stickers on VHS videos and when
Speaker 2: in you got for eight out. Yeah, it was a
Speaker 2: temping job in between drama school, and I think it
Speaker 2: was eight hours on a convey about with other people
Speaker 2: just putting stickers on the vhs, you know. And we
Speaker 2: got back the next day and they said, thank you
Speaker 2: for your work yesterday. It was the wrong stickers, so
Speaker 2: today you're going to take more off, and I just
Speaker 2: went thanks by.
Speaker 1: I'm not doing that, No, but I have.
Speaker 2: Done even more boring jobs than that that. The people
Speaker 2: around me have been incredible. But the people at that
Speaker 2: job were not great, and they were just gossiping and
Speaker 2: it was just not It just wasn't a nice environment.
Speaker 2: And I realized what's important for me is the people
Speaker 2: I spend my time with. That's more important to me
Speaker 2: than what the job is in itself. And obviously it's
Speaker 2: a dream job if you can have both. You know,
Speaker 2: you love your job and you love the people that
Speaker 2: you get to spend time with. But I think that's
Speaker 2: another thing. You work out who you are and what matters.
Speaker 2: Maybe the job isn't the job that lights you up,
Speaker 2: and it's your seize your yea. But I know, as
Speaker 2: you say this, but it allows you your job allows
Speaker 2: you to seize your ya outside of work hours, then
Speaker 2: that can work. If you just know, no, I'm happy,
Speaker 2: my job doesn't have to set me on fire because
Speaker 2: it allows me to do things outside of my work
Speaker 2: that set me on fire. But for other people, no,
Speaker 2: I want my work to have deep meaning and I
Speaker 2: need to be passionate, and those people are. We're practiced
Speaker 2: at rejection, practice at being uncomfortable. It doesn't make it easier,
Speaker 2: but we do understand it's part of the journey.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, absolutely, that is so powerful, And that
Speaker 1: is one of the things I think I took out
Speaker 1: of the book the most was the idea that even
Speaker 1: in being someone who's quite practiced at things like self
Speaker 1: doubt or imposter syndrome and practiced at the discomfort of
Speaker 1: growth opportunities, I think it's very, very easy for us
Speaker 1: to fall into the idea that power means power over somebody,
Speaker 1: over somebody else, Like there's a limited amount of power
Speaker 1: and we all got to spread it around, and some
Speaker 1: of us will have more and some of us will
Speaker 1: have less. And that's how power is generally perceived in society,
Speaker 1: that those up here have it and those down here don't,
Speaker 1: to the exclusion of you know, there's like a finite amount.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Something you wrote it's beautiful in the note that you
Speaker 1: sent with the book was that of the five pillars
Speaker 1: or the five principles, you think of me as having ownership,
Speaker 1: ownership of my story, my journey, and my self would
Speaker 1: And that was such a big compliment to me, because
Speaker 1: I do feel like I've shaped shifted a lot in
Speaker 1: my time and not owned who I really am or
Speaker 1: what I really want to please whoever I'm trying to
Speaker 1: please at the moment. But you have shown me through
Speaker 1: this book, but also in many conversations we've had before
Speaker 1: this book came out, that power is an internal thing.
Speaker 1: It's really just the ability, and that comes links to
Speaker 1: responsibility being the fifth principle that like life isn't happening
Speaker 1: to you, parts of it are parts of it you
Speaker 1: can't change, but you don't have to be reactive all
Speaker 1: the time. Power just means proactivity. It just means power
Speaker 1: over your own circumstances. It doesn't mean over anybody else.
Speaker 1: It's actually not related to anybody else, even though it's
Speaker 1: used that way. Sometimes it just means you can choose
Speaker 1: that you want YEA in your job. You can choose
Speaker 1: you don't care about YEA in your job. If you
Speaker 1: have YEA on the weekend, you can choose whatever compromise
Speaker 1: works for you, and you can also choose that one
Speaker 1: day the dream job that you thought was your dream
Speaker 1: job is no longer your dream job. You know, at
Speaker 1: any one time you've you've got the power, and that
Speaker 1: I think is so valuable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, one percent. And as I talk about in the book,
Speaker 2: you know, it's not twenty one days to power. We
Speaker 2: move in and out of power all of the time.
Speaker 2: We're walking to certain rooms and feel powerless other rooms
Speaker 2: where feel no, I'm grounded in my power. The power
Speaker 2: comes from knowing when those moments are And as you say,
Speaker 2: what are the actions I need to take to rebuild
Speaker 2: my power back up? Or if I can't, who are
Speaker 2: the people around me that I know will remind me
Speaker 2: of my power, of my power when I think I
Speaker 2: don't have any Because as that quote that you shared
Speaker 2: at the beginning, Alice Walker, the biggest mistake that people
Speaker 2: make is thinking that they don't have any power in
Speaker 2: the first place.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that is because they see it
Speaker 1: as us like me them like they have power. Therefore
Speaker 1: I don't. They can control my working hours or my
Speaker 1: tasks that I do day to day. But yes, that's
Speaker 1: a control, that's like a part of being a leader.
Speaker 1: But it doesn't mean that you have none. Like again,
Speaker 1: it's it's not like there's a pie chart of power
Speaker 1: and we all split off little bits. It's like, no
Speaker 1: one else is in your own pie chart of power,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, oh, I love that no one else is
Speaker 2: in your own pie chart. There's a there's a quote.
Speaker 4: High power, power pie and that's the and I love
Speaker 4: that you share that, and that is you know, that
Speaker 4: is that idea of the power the model is, you know,
Speaker 4: doctor Brene Brown.
Speaker 2: That's how she's really she's really managed to kind of
Speaker 2: distinguish the different form of the power you power over
Speaker 2: and power with and power too. And we see that
Speaker 2: power over playing out in the world right now in
Speaker 2: devastating ways. That idea that power is a scarce resource
Speaker 2: and I must have it and you can't have it.
Speaker 2: And look, I'll be honest, as a black woman navigating
Speaker 2: mainly white spaces, my relationship to power was white men
Speaker 2: or even white people, full stop. And those stories are
Speaker 2: kind of woven through the book. In those times where
Speaker 2: I felt like, no, no, I have no power in
Speaker 2: the situation at all. I have no power in this
Speaker 2: situation at all because I'm a black woman, and therefore
Speaker 2: I would be small. I will not have a voice.
Speaker 2: I don't want to be the angry black woman. I
Speaker 2: will step back. But what I've noticed in that power
Speaker 2: principle of ownership is it actually owning all of that,
Speaker 2: owning that internal story, owning the systems that are at play.
Speaker 2: These systems are not made up. There has been a
Speaker 2: system called the patriarchy that has been run by white men,
Speaker 2: So we have to take that into account and take
Speaker 2: ownership of that. Also realized within that system, I can
Speaker 2: choose what power looks like for me, as opposed to
Speaker 2: if they have it, I don't have any. It is
Speaker 2: not true. We all have the ability to act in
Speaker 2: a particular way.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And that actually leads really nicely to the finisher,
Speaker 1: which is your favorite quote. And I know you love
Speaker 1: quotes just as much as I do, and I thought
Speaker 1: I would refer back to your September twenty nineteen quote
Speaker 1: because of the many ways you may have grown and
Speaker 1: continue to grow, I think this quote still really represents
Speaker 1: to me what I love about you. And that's the
Speaker 1: quote was. Leaders who live into their values are never
Speaker 1: silent about hard things. And I think this book is
Speaker 1: that it's that it's your not being silent about things
Speaker 1: that all of us need to hear. You're helping other
Speaker 1: women not apologize and be quiet, and not just women, everybody,
Speaker 1: but particularly women, to not be small, to not be quiet,
Speaker 1: to not avoid hard conversations or hard things to the
Speaker 1: detriment of joy or been a soull fulfillment. But has
Speaker 1: your favorite quote changed since then?
Speaker 3: No, I still have my favorite ten thousand.
Speaker 2: Quotes, and that is definitely you know, that's Brene Brown,
Speaker 2: that quote, And as a you know, dare to lead
Speaker 2: the facilitator, that will always be my one that sits
Speaker 2: inside of leadership. And you're right, I think that the
Speaker 2: book is an extension of that. And I have written
Speaker 2: the book for women, but the men that have read
Speaker 2: it it has really given them an insight into how
Speaker 2: women have to navigate certain spaces. So that's been great.
Speaker 2: My favorite quote at the moment is, well, it's been
Speaker 2: my favorite quote for a long time. That's one of
Speaker 2: my ten thousand quotes is you get what you focus on,
Speaker 2: so focus on what you want.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's such a good one, such.
Speaker 2: A good one, and I can't attribute it to anyone
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm not sure exactly who. I just have
Speaker 2: it as a card here on my desk, But you know,
Speaker 2: I think it really ties into what we've been speaking
Speaker 2: about today. That we can winge about our boss, we
Speaker 2: can winge about the workload, we can winge about all
Speaker 2: of these things, or we can look at what sort
Speaker 2: of a boss do I want, what sort of a
Speaker 2: work environment do I want? How do I want to
Speaker 2: feel at work? And taking the time to focus on
Speaker 2: the answers to those questions will ultimately if you're willing
Speaker 2: to take scary action, not waiting for the self doubt
Speaker 2: to go, not waiting until you're not scared, not waiting
Speaker 2: until it doesn't feel lonely, because it is lonely sometimes
Speaker 2: to make big decisions, but just knowing with all of that,
Speaker 2: I deserve to create a life and a job for
Speaker 2: myself that does give me a sense of pleasure and fulfillment,
Speaker 2: and of course a sense of yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh she's on brand, she's on brand. I just diod
Speaker 1: the assignment.
Speaker 2: What the memo got?
Speaker 3: The one that I just.
Speaker 1: Want to add, which is another one that really I
Speaker 1: think follows on from that, but also is something that
Speaker 1: I think of you when I think of and that's
Speaker 1: that once you acknowledge the power and know that you
Speaker 1: have it, it's a different question to then ask for that,
Speaker 1: ask for the things you know you have power for.
Speaker 1: And the quote that I come back to all the
Speaker 1: time is if you don't ask it to know. And
Speaker 1: for anyone who has a lot of trouble asking with
Speaker 1: the actual asking Kemmy's.
Speaker 3: Other book of three, her second.
Speaker 1: Book is The Gift of Asking, and that goes into
Speaker 1: our whole nother thing, which is just the language to
Speaker 1: seize the power that you didn't know you had or
Speaker 1: thought you might have lost. So for anyone who does
Speaker 1: also then need the next step, which is how do
Speaker 1: I ask for that? It's an incredible book as well,
Speaker 1: so I'll include links to both in the show notes. Kemmy,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining. You are always such
Speaker 1: a delightful, enlightening person to speak with, and the book
Speaker 1: was brilliant.
Speaker 2: Ah, thank you, Sarah. It's so good to see you.
Speaker 2: And let's do an in real life smoothe soon.
Speaker 3: I rl irl