Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3: I've entered my Rashi era. Think about a rashie is
Speaker 3: that I don't want to be a three year old
Speaker 3: at a public pool, right, I want to be Kate
Speaker 3: Bosworth in Blue Crats. Can we remember that now?
Speaker 1: Reference Jersey.
Speaker 3: I knew you would.
Speaker 2: I've got rashi. It's got a full zip and I
Speaker 2: always wear it like all the wow and just for
Speaker 2: a little bit of peanut.
Speaker 4: And my friend when I used to go to the
Speaker 4: beach from the other time, she'd always come up to
Speaker 4: me and just do this bit back up like it
Speaker 4: was a mistake.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to be hot.
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to MoMA Mia out Loud and to
Speaker 2: our Friday show where we do not talk about the news.
Speaker 2: We talk about other things. It's like a whole mental
Speaker 2: la la laughingers in this situation. Today is Friday, the
Speaker 2: eleventh of eight, and my name is Hollywayin Wright.
Speaker 3: I am Jesse Stevens, and I am Amelia Lester, and
Speaker 3: Amelia is joining us remotely today. We now have to
Speaker 3: have that as a caveat ever since when I joined remotely,
Speaker 3: I swear I'm not plugging a chord in properly, but
Speaker 3: I guarantee that Amelia's audio is going to be perfect,
Speaker 3: perfect Amelia.
Speaker 2: But if you wonder if why she sounds a bit
Speaker 2: little different, that's.
Speaker 1: Why I'm swathed in sheepskin right audio.
Speaker 2: On today's show, are we entering the era of d diagnosis?
Speaker 2: We're talking about a new book that's changing the way
Speaker 2: we see what's wrong with us? Also an it girl,
Speaker 2: a magazine mogul, and a rashie. It could be a
Speaker 2: reality show, but it's not. It's our recommendations for the week,
Speaker 2: and a Nicole test, a bingle and multiple viewings of
Speaker 2: a questionable film that's our best and worse. But first,
Speaker 2: Amelia Lester.
Speaker 1: In case you missed it, A professional golfer Ryan McCormick
Speaker 1: has taped his mouth and no it wasn't mouth taping
Speaker 1: for sleep. The American golfer has been had apparently a
Speaker 1: tough year on the golf circuit. As I think you
Speaker 1: probably both know, Holly.
Speaker 2: And Jesse, I'm very closely following the golf circuit at
Speaker 2: all times.
Speaker 3: Me McCormick classic McCormick behavior.
Speaker 1: He knew he was prone to emotional outbursts, so he
Speaker 1: decided that when things weren't going well, he should preempt
Speaker 1: that by taping his mouth. Here is Ryan.
Speaker 3: I mean, at this point, I've tried about everything.
Speaker 4: I've read a lot of books.
Speaker 1: I've talked to people just too angry on the golf course.
Speaker 3: So I have run out of ideas.
Speaker 2: And I thought about the tape thing a couple weeks ago,
Speaker 2: and unfortunately came down to that today.
Speaker 3: I was hoping maybe it would help me. I can't
Speaker 3: say that it did or didn't.
Speaker 2: Golf rage. He's got golf rage and this was his solution.
Speaker 1: My god, don't you feel like mouth tape is one
Speaker 1: of those things where for me, I literally did not
Speaker 1: know of the concept for the first forty years of
Speaker 1: my life, and now it's popping up everywhere all the time. Jesse,
Speaker 1: is there anyone whose mouths you would like to tape?
Speaker 3: Yeah? When I saw this story, I immediately put it
Speaker 3: in our group chat and I said, we should take
Speaker 3: me a's mouth.
Speaker 1: Hut.
Speaker 3: I think that could be a good thing for some workplaces.
Speaker 3: And similarly to McCormick, he was saying he did this
Speaker 3: as well for his fellow golfers. So I feel like
Speaker 3: sometimes it's a kind thing for those around us if
Speaker 3: we know that we've got issues with, say, impulse control,
Speaker 3: as mea sometimes does.
Speaker 2: I feel sorry for Ryan because this is a big
Speaker 2: thing to do when you know the world's cameras are
Speaker 2: on you, right, you know everybody's gonna ask you. And
Speaker 2: I also relate because one of my resting faces is
Speaker 2: that hold my lips together. And when I'm doing that,
Speaker 2: I'm sure I'm doing exactly this. I'm like going, don't
Speaker 2: shay it, don't say it, don't say it. But what
Speaker 2: don't they make his golf game a bit hard? Don't
Speaker 2: have you talk in golf?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so speaking to your caddy about what club you
Speaker 3: want for your next hole quite hard. I want the book,
Speaker 3: a big one for my putter. But I think there's
Speaker 3: something about sports that you play on your own that
Speaker 3: screw in your head. Because I loved tennis growing up
Speaker 3: and I needed tape. I needed two tape.
Speaker 1: You were John McEnroe, Tope.
Speaker 3: I am John McEnroe. You've nailed it. I need a
Speaker 3: tape across my mouth and I need a tape between
Speaker 3: my hand and that racket because the amount of rackets
Speaker 3: I threw. Oh, I screamed, because it's the frustration when
Speaker 3: you're in a team, you get to blame it on others.
Speaker 3: That's why I love this podcast.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true when we screw it up, you're just
Speaker 2: like that was definitely holly to me.
Speaker 1: It reminds me a little bit also of the way
Speaker 1: that pimple patches have become so big, and you know,
Speaker 1: you don't think of mouth tape is something you can
Speaker 1: wear in public. I'm still figuring out whether pimple patches
Speaker 1: are something I can wear in public. And sometimes I
Speaker 1: wear pimple patches to pick up my children from school
Speaker 1: and they get really angry at me, and they don't
Speaker 1: understand that this is what Justin Bieber and others have
Speaker 1: already said as a trend.
Speaker 2: You know Dochi, who's a very very cool rapper musician,
Speaker 2: she wears face tape like as a statement to pull
Speaker 2: ahead back and like vis face tape on purpose. And
Speaker 2: when she was asked why, she said, and I apologize
Speaker 2: in advance to the producers for this, she said, because it's.
Speaker 3: We are living in the age of diagnosis, but are
Speaker 3: we about to enter a new era, one of d diagnosis,
Speaker 3: where we give some of our pathologies back. This might
Speaker 3: sound provocative, and it is, but I'm going to put
Speaker 3: forward the argument that is being made by an Irish
Speaker 3: physician who specializes in neurology named doctor Suzanne O'Sullivan, and
Speaker 3: then I'd love to hear your thoughts. O'Sullivan has released
Speaker 3: a book. If you haven't seen it, you're about to
Speaker 3: see it everywhere. It is called The Age of Diagnosis,
Speaker 3: and she says that the first job of a doctor
Speaker 3: is to do no harm. She asks, are some diagnoses
Speaker 3: doing more harm than good? So O'Sullivan writes that we
Speaker 3: are not getting sicker, we are attributing more to sickness.
Speaker 3: And medically, when you're getting a diagnosis, it's supposed to
Speaker 3: lead to something. The problem with over diagnosis, in her view,
Speaker 3: is that it can lead to over treatment. We can
Speaker 3: actively create illness and distress, which potentially wastes limited resources
Speaker 3: that could be used for those who are in greater neat.
Speaker 2: Jesse, can I just ask you that quote that's very
Speaker 2: makes absolute sense, but just to expand it a bit more.
Speaker 2: When she says we're not getting sicker, we're attributing more
Speaker 2: to sickness. That means that if there's a certain behavior
Speaker 2: or symptom that you're living with, people were always living
Speaker 2: with it. But now we will say, oh, that's because
Speaker 2: I'm diagnosed with blah.
Speaker 3: Yes, and so we're getting cancers earlier. Pre diabetes is something.
Speaker 3: We've lowered the threshold for pre diabetes, so more people
Speaker 3: understand themselves to be living with illness. And I will
Speaker 3: say there are particular fields where I think there really
Speaker 3: is a rise. But what she is saying is that broadly,
Speaker 3: we've medicalized a lot of things for better, and she
Speaker 3: says in some cases for worse. So one story she
Speaker 3: tells is about a woman who was told she had
Speaker 3: a fifty percent chance of developing Huntington's disease, which is
Speaker 3: a genetic degenerative disorder. Very quickly, she started to notice
Speaker 3: the symptoms, cognitive, unusual body movements. Over time it got worse,
Speaker 3: and finally when she thought, you know, this is as
Speaker 3: bad as it's going to get, she got tested and
Speaker 3: she tested negative. She didn't have it, And we underestimate.
Speaker 3: This is O'Sullivan's point, what the brain does when given
Speaker 3: a diagnosis. I saw an example of this on Instagram recently.
Speaker 3: It was a mum. She's a very kind of famous
Speaker 3: figure and mum talk and on Instagram and she was
Speaker 3: doing this thing I think you too will relate where
Speaker 3: you're cleaning your house and you stop for a minute
Speaker 3: and you look at something and you kind of drift
Speaker 3: off into space. And she put this funny video up
Speaker 3: and said, does anyone relate?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: And I went through the comments and there were comments saying,
Speaker 3: you've had an absence seizure, this is dissociation. You need
Speaker 3: to take this video to your doctor. And I thought
Speaker 3: if I was a doctor and people were coming to
Speaker 3: me with videos like this, which was fine. She came
Speaker 3: out of it and everything was fine. Are we just
Speaker 3: pathologizing quite normal human experiences, Holly? Obviously we're not doctors.
Speaker 3: Maya Friedman is a known doctor, but she's not here today,
Speaker 3: and so any questions people have about their actual health
Speaker 3: obviously go and see a professional. But having listened to
Speaker 3: some interviews with O'Sullivan, do you see some of the
Speaker 3: potential downsides of living in the age of diagnosis?
Speaker 2: I do. I listened to an interview with Susann O'Sullivan
Speaker 2: on Armchair Expert that was really interesting. And it has
Speaker 2: to be said that she is she's Irish. I don't
Speaker 2: know why that suddenly somehow makes her seem more is
Speaker 2: so reasonable to me, But.
Speaker 3: She's Irish, does you know what it does?
Speaker 2: She's a doctor with an Irish accent, and she is
Speaker 2: so beautifully nuanced on this Because my first instinct, when
Speaker 2: Jesse you mentioned a while ago that you really wanted
Speaker 2: to talk about this on the show, my first instinct
Speaker 2: is of defensiveness, and I just need to kind of
Speaker 2: explain why so we can get that out of the
Speaker 2: way for this conversation, because I'm sure a lot of
Speaker 2: people listening will feel the same. Very often, when people
Speaker 2: talk about how we live in an age of overdiagnosis,
Speaker 2: they're often talking about kids. They're often talking about parents
Speaker 2: who are seeking diagnoses for their kids for various things,
Speaker 2: And there's almost this tone of conversation that, for obvious reasons,
Speaker 2: really presses buttons in me, which is a suggestion that
Speaker 2: parents are lazy, looking for shortcuts, want to medicate their
Speaker 2: children so they're easier to handle. Just like the identity
Speaker 2: of somehow having a child with the special conduct that
Speaker 2: kind of conversation is a real thing, and it exists,
Speaker 2: and I want us to put that aside for this conversation, right,
Speaker 2: because that's not really what Susann O'Sullivan is talking about.
Speaker 2: She does talk a little bit about childhood diagnosis, but
Speaker 2: she's talking more specifically about well, all of us, but
Speaker 2: adults in the purpose of this conversation, who are over
Speaker 2: diagnosed or seeking diagnosis for things that maybe once we
Speaker 2: would have just lived with.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: That's kind of the yes, yeah, and whether that's a
Speaker 2: good thing or not, and pushing back slightly against the
Speaker 2: mainstream view that of course it's a good thing, because
Speaker 2: on the surface of it, when you listen to this,
Speaker 2: you think, well, of course it's a good thing that
Speaker 2: we now know what the signals the spikes of diabetes
Speaker 2: might be, and so prediagnosis is great, or that we're
Speaker 2: catching cancers earlier. We all have people in our lives
Speaker 2: who are around because they caught cancer earlier, so that
Speaker 2: seems really true. Her point about anything negative is kind
Speaker 2: of saying that it can be debilitating. Am I right?
Speaker 2: That's kind of what she's saying.
Speaker 3: Yes, and can we do anything about it?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: What's the purpose of a diagnosis if there's nothing? Her
Speaker 3: as a doctor can do about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So she was saying that she thinks a diagnosis
Speaker 2: is worth seeking if whatever you're living with is debilitating
Speaker 2: to you, is really affecting your life in a negative way.
Speaker 2: And that's kind of a bit of a similar prediagnosis
Speaker 2: that you often talk about addiction. Right, how do you
Speaker 2: know if you're drinking too much or whatever, is it
Speaker 2: impacting your life negative way? She sort of says, that
Speaker 2: is fair game. But if it's just to explain certain
Speaker 2: mysteries in your life that then might overtake you, she's
Speaker 2: saying that's not really a good thing, right, Yes.
Speaker 1: And there's another key distinction that I want to bring
Speaker 1: up that she talks about on that podcast, because I
Speaker 1: too felt wary about this topic, Holly, for all the
Speaker 1: reasons that you mentioned, And I think we have to
Speaker 1: be really careful when talking about it because a lot
Speaker 1: of people with for instance, long COVID or chronic LME
Speaker 1: disease might feel like they're not being believed. She talks
Speaker 1: about the idea that something can be psychosomatic that doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that you've made it up or that you're seeking attention.
Speaker 1: She uses the analogy of when you watch a horror
Speaker 1: film and your heart starts beating fast. Your heart really
Speaker 1: is beating fast. You are really also experiencing a sensation
Speaker 1: of your heart beating fast. That's a psycho somatic reaction.
Speaker 1: It's not something you're making up or seeking out for attention.
Speaker 1: And that was a real a harm moment for me
Speaker 1: in getting my head around this concept of over diagnosis,
Speaker 1: because when we talk about something being psychosomatic, it's real.
Speaker 1: It just means that sometimes a medical doctor might not
Speaker 1: be the right person to help you with it.
Speaker 3: And in fact it's often harder to address or to cure.
Speaker 3: Because I thought it was the same if I went
Speaker 3: to a doctor and they said to me that psychosomatic,
Speaker 3: I would hear you think I'm making this up. And
Speaker 3: what I loved about O'Sullivan talking about it is that
Speaker 3: I feel as though we're on the precipice of a
Speaker 3: lot of research being done in this space. So you know,
Speaker 3: for example, I am a fainter. I have fainted since
Speaker 3: I was a kid. I've been looking for a diagnosis
Speaker 3: to do with my fainting. I would love a diagnosis
Speaker 3: so that I can understand it, so that I can
Speaker 3: explain it to people, so that I can potentially treat it.
Speaker 3: I've had to go to a cardiologist and have my
Speaker 3: heart checked in a bunch of things, and that's always good.
Speaker 3: Want to rule things out. But that's what doctors often do,
Speaker 3: is they rule things out. Doctors often see patients that
Speaker 3: have unexplained whatever, like the weird things the human body
Speaker 3: does that don't fit into a diagnosis. And when I
Speaker 3: think about the fainting thing, I go, do I want
Speaker 3: my pain validated or my fear validated that this thing
Speaker 3: that happens to me when I'm out in public, when
Speaker 3: I've hit my head and I've really hurt myself. Sometimes
Speaker 3: what we can hear when we're not given a diagnosis
Speaker 3: or a really clear treatment plan is you don't believe
Speaker 3: my pain, or you're not listening to me. I realized
Speaker 3: through listening to O'Sullivan that that's not how medicine works.
Speaker 3: I think that I had a misunderstanding about how it worked.
Speaker 2: We wouldn't you like a cure for your fainting, because
Speaker 2: I think one of the things about this that's interesting
Speaker 2: is she sort of talks about how we all want answers,
Speaker 2: and of course we do, because we've all got to
Speaker 2: get on with our lives, right, I kind of feel
Speaker 2: like we don't thrive an uncertain Most of us have
Speaker 2: a choice to keep going. We've got like soldiering on
Speaker 2: isn't a choice, it's reality. We've got to keep working,
Speaker 2: we've got to keep parenting, we've got to keep caring,
Speaker 2: we've got to keep you know, doing whatever it is
Speaker 2: we're doing. So therefore any kind of solution or cure
Speaker 2: would be very welcome. And then the other part to this,
Speaker 2: of course, is that we live in a world where
Speaker 2: there is a pill or a supplement or a treatment
Speaker 2: plan for absolutely everything, and so we're also living with
Speaker 2: a lot of pressure, a lot of industries who are
Speaker 2: deeply invested in selling us a cure for whatever it
Speaker 2: is we've got. And although that sounds cynical, but if
Speaker 2: I was you, I don't think you're being indulgent to
Speaker 2: want to know why you keep fainting, considering the risks
Speaker 2: if you're fainting when you're you know, looking after your child,
Speaker 2: or as you said, fell and hit your head, wanting
Speaker 2: a cure for that isn't unreasonable.
Speaker 3: But why do I feel like it would be more
Speaker 3: valid condition if I had a name and there is
Speaker 3: something in me, and I don't think that that is
Speaker 3: a fault of the individual or of me. In fact,
Speaker 3: this is the way the system is set up, right.
Speaker 3: It's like from every from ndis to access to certain tests,
Speaker 3: to access to certain treatments. Necessarily, in a lot of
Speaker 3: ways you need diagnosis in order to be catered to
Speaker 3: by this system. So I think this has less to
Speaker 3: do with individuals and more to do with systems.
Speaker 1: What this also made me think about is, I'm sure
Speaker 1: we all know people for whom the connection between mind
Speaker 1: and body is really strong and visceral. For instance, I'm
Speaker 1: thinking of a family member of mine who gets stomach
Speaker 1: issues whenever he's nervous or anxious, and it happens like clockwork,
Speaker 1: and he's always been like that. And I think it's
Speaker 1: because for some people, mind and body are more linked
Speaker 1: than they are for other people. And maybe we should
Speaker 1: note at this point that this author is a neurologist.
Speaker 1: She is a medical doctor. She is not a well
Speaker 1: I guess by medical doctor, I mean to contrast it
Speaker 1: with a psychologist. She's not a psychologist, she's not even
Speaker 1: a psychiatrist. Maybe when you go to the cardiologists about
Speaker 1: your fainting. You do want the cardiologists to give you
Speaker 1: an answer. Yeah, maybe the answer is more in the
Speaker 1: psychosomatical mind realm than it is anything to do with,
Speaker 1: for instance, your heart. And that's why it can feel
Speaker 1: so frustrating.
Speaker 2: We know that women in particular have been understudied, right
Speaker 2: in medical terms, and often dismissed, and women are very
Speaker 2: used to living in like nondescript discomfort, right, we just
Speaker 2: are without conclusion, just the idea of like, of course
Speaker 2: it's normal that you should be in agony for several
Speaker 2: days a month or whatever it is. It's interesting to
Speaker 2: think that we're pushing that, Like we are now very
Speaker 2: much pushing that and saying no, we want answers to
Speaker 2: these things. Are we wrong to want answers to these things?
Speaker 2: Isn't that the way it should be? When we are
Speaker 2: pushing against a sort of a system that has always
Speaker 2: dismissed our discomfort and pain, it feels to me like
Speaker 2: it's the wrong way to go to go. Sure, we'll
Speaker 2: just deal with it.
Speaker 3: I'm comfortable with that being complicated a little bit. But
Speaker 3: I have a friend recent I was having a bunch
Speaker 3: of really really strange health issues and went to her
Speaker 3: doctor and asked for a number of tests, and this
Speaker 3: is becoming increasingly common people asking for tests. They've been empowered,
Speaker 3: they've done their own research, and you know, maybe they
Speaker 3: think that their GP won't necessarily understand where they're coming from.
Speaker 3: And she has a great GP, and the GP basically
Speaker 3: said to her, if we run these tests, we'll find things.
Speaker 3: We will absolutely find things. They're not going to be
Speaker 3: relevant or helpful. They're not going to be things that
Speaker 3: we can address. For example, if you were to scan
Speaker 3: the brain of someone in their sixties or seventies, you
Speaker 3: might find that there have been mini strokes. There's not
Speaker 3: really anything you can do about that. And for every
Speaker 3: test that you do, there is funding to cost money.
Speaker 3: There is the psychological impact on the person who hears
Speaker 3: the result. There's the age of diagnosis and people on
Speaker 3: the fringes or with maybe not as severe symptoms getting
Speaker 3: those diagnoses. There are people who really need resources and
Speaker 3: help who are not being served. And to consider the
Speaker 3: medical system as something that is finite, like there's a
Speaker 3: cost to every test, every consultation. And I think that
Speaker 3: that's important too, that we've got overdiagnosis. At the same
Speaker 3: time as underdiagnosis, and that's what's complicated.
Speaker 2: And also presumably there's a socioeconomic split in the people
Speaker 2: who are walking into their doctors and saying I want
Speaker 2: this test and this test and this test because a
Speaker 2: they can afford them if they have to, but also
Speaker 2: they've had the time and resources to go away and
Speaker 2: do all their research and decide what's wrong with them.
Speaker 1: I also think that we think that doctors are magicians
Speaker 1: onlind readers, and they really aren't. So one thing that
Speaker 1: I've realized being married to a doctor is that whenever
Speaker 1: we go anywhere, someone will pull him aside and talk
Speaker 1: about a rash or some kind of illness or ailment
Speaker 1: they have and want his answer for what's wrong. And
Speaker 1: what he typically says is I don't want to engage
Speaker 1: with you on this right now, A, because rashes are
Speaker 1: grows and we're eating dinner. But be go owing to
Speaker 1: the doctor is a data point for doctors. So if
Speaker 1: you go to the doctor, you are saying, this rash
Speaker 1: or this ailment has become so intrusive into my life
Speaker 1: that I need to do something about it. I need
Speaker 1: to take this inconvenient step of going to the doctor
Speaker 1: and explaining it to the doctor and paying the doctor
Speaker 1: and so on. If you just grab someone who you've
Speaker 1: met on the street and say, hey, I've got this rash,
Speaker 1: can you fix it for me? It's not interfering with
Speaker 1: your life enough that you've gone to the doctor about it.
Speaker 1: And I think that illustrates this idea that like they
Speaker 1: think that he can just kind of look at them
Speaker 1: and figure out what's wrong, but he needs the data
Speaker 1: point of I came to the doctor about this, this
Speaker 1: is really bothering me now, and that's in itself an
Speaker 1: indication to him of the pain level, the discomfort level,
Speaker 1: and then he can act from there, because it's very
Speaker 1: difficult for them to tell how much pain we're in,
Speaker 1: what sort of pain we're in. We're very bad at
Speaker 1: language to communicate that. We don't have a lot of
Speaker 1: words to describe pain, and I think that's part of
Speaker 1: the problem as well.
Speaker 2: The bit of this thesis that I find a bit
Speaker 2: tricky though, is there's an idea out there that because
Speaker 2: people who have particular conditions can find support online for
Speaker 2: those conditions. So if you're a woman who's been living
Speaker 2: with a lot of unexplained symptoms and you suspect you've
Speaker 2: got some kind of chronic condition, but the doctors keep
Speaker 2: dismissing you. When you find a community of other women
Speaker 2: online who are living with that too, it's incredibly reaffirming,
Speaker 2: and I would argue in a very good way, certain
Speaker 2: medical institutions have been dismissing women as hysterical for a
Speaker 2: long time, right, And I think that there is an
Speaker 2: enormous amount of support and help to be found in
Speaker 2: those communities online for people who are living with all
Speaker 2: kinds of things that may be a difficult to express
Speaker 2: in the mainstream, and people are trying different treatments, and
Speaker 2: that can be consuming and be part of your identity.
Speaker 2: But the real positive side of that is that you
Speaker 2: realize that you're not to the point before we made
Speaker 2: about the prejudices we have about psychosomatic illnesses is you
Speaker 2: realize that you are not alone, and that is something
Speaker 2: that didn't used to happen. And so when O'Sullivan is
Speaker 2: kind of saying, I don't think that all this focus
Speaker 2: on non debilitating health conditions is necessarily making us weller,
Speaker 2: I find that interesting. I don't know how you measure that,
Speaker 2: because aren't those people who are finding solace online with
Speaker 2: other people who have their symptoms in a better place
Speaker 2: than they were before.
Speaker 1: And also, we've all seen that look of relief on
Speaker 1: someone's face when they do get an answer for why
Speaker 1: they've been feeling a particular way or why they feel
Speaker 1: like their brain has been letting them down, and we
Speaker 1: know that that relief is real.
Speaker 2: Out louders in a minute. Both Amelia and I have
Speaker 2: read juicy memoirs and we want to recommend them.
Speaker 1: To you.
Speaker 3: Out loud as.
Speaker 2: We've got a listener dilemma for you, and we need
Speaker 2: your collective wisdom to help us and our partners ui
Speaker 2: solve it. So here's the problem. My close not me,
Speaker 2: not me, This would never be mere. My close group
Speaker 2: of girlfriends have been getting together for casual dinners for years.
Speaker 2: We typically rotate houses and everybody brings something to share, appetizers,
Speaker 2: side seller's, deserts, etc. Recently, I accidentally discovered something that's
Speaker 2: left me completely mortified. Through a mix up that's a
Speaker 2: bit complicated. I found out that my friends have been
Speaker 2: deliberately trying to prevent me from bringing home cooked food
Speaker 2: to our gatherings. Okay, maybe it is me. Apparently they
Speaker 2: think I'm a terrible cook. But have been too nice
Speaker 2: to tell me. For years, They've been strategically suggesting I
Speaker 2: bring drinks or store bought items, while privately joking about
Speaker 2: the disasters I've served them in the past. All this time,
Speaker 2: I've been happily cooking for these gatherings, completely unaware that
Speaker 2: everyone was dreading my contributions. Our next get together is
Speaker 2: happening next weekend. Should I confront my friends about what
Speaker 2: I've discovered or pretend I never found out? The question
Speaker 2: is Amelia and Jesse, what do you do next?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Okay, I'm going to take this on
Speaker 3: as how what I would do next? Right, I wouldn't
Speaker 3: be upset that they think I'm a bad cook, upset
Speaker 3: that they weren't honest with me. I don't like feeling tricks,
Speaker 3: and I don't.
Speaker 1: Think that they were laughing about her behind her bad Yeah.
Speaker 3: I don't like that. I just think we can all
Speaker 3: have a laugh that I'm a bad cook. So if
Speaker 3: we're gonna talk about how I shouldn't bring my home cooking,
Speaker 3: but I'll bring a bottle of wine, ha ha, funny
Speaker 3: love this, but I've got to feel included. I don't
Speaker 3: like the fact she was left out, Amelia, what do
Speaker 3: you think?
Speaker 1: Oh, you're so right, Jessie. I think that is the
Speaker 1: worst part of it. The sense of a conspiracy, the
Speaker 1: group chat that's happening outside of the group chat. That's
Speaker 1: really the heart of this. And I really want to know.
Speaker 1: I know she said it's complicated, but I really want
Speaker 1: to know how she found out. Look, I think she
Speaker 1: needs to take it to them and say my feelings
Speaker 1: a hurt. I think in general, if you've got a
Speaker 1: close group of friends and your feelings are hurt, life
Speaker 1: is way too short not to tell your friends that
Speaker 1: your feelings are hurt and then talk it through.
Speaker 2: What I would do next is makes something really disgusting,
Speaker 2: Take it proudly to the dinner, serve it to all
Speaker 2: of them, and insist that they all have a bite.
Speaker 3: Out loud as what would you do? Please share your
Speaker 3: thoughts in the mummea out loud Facebook group, and please
Speaker 3: share any dilemmas that you want our help with, because
Speaker 3: we love to help.
Speaker 2: Vibes ideas Atosphere stopping casual, stopping fun.
Speaker 3: This is my best recommendation.
Speaker 1: It's Friday and it's been a week, so we want
Speaker 1: to help you set up your weekend with our very
Speaker 1: best recommendations.
Speaker 3: Jesse, I have a strange recco in that it's not
Speaker 3: seasonally appropriate. But I'm going away over Easter and I
Speaker 3: was packing my suitcase and I came across one of
Speaker 3: my favorite items that I own.
Speaker 1: Do you pack your suitcase stays ahead of time?
Speaker 2: I do? Even is shit.
Speaker 1: You're a lazy girl.
Speaker 3: I know I'm a lazy girl, but I can't. My
Speaker 3: brain can't get around all the things that I need.
Speaker 3: I've got like a so I have to do a
Speaker 3: spreadsheet every time I go away because I can't. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I do a spreadsheet and then I put it in
Speaker 3: green once. This even pre lunar, No Slena has now
Speaker 3: that there's so much. This is a month the steaks
Speaker 3: are higher. So I've spoken on the show about getting
Speaker 3: a few skin cancers chopped out recently, and I've entered
Speaker 3: my rashie era.
Speaker 2: Oh love a rush.
Speaker 3: The thing about a rashie is that I don't want
Speaker 3: to be a three year old at a public pool, right.
Speaker 3: I want to be Kate Bosworth in Blue Crash.
Speaker 1: Can we remember that? Now? That reference?
Speaker 3: Jersey, I knew you would. I want to look like
Speaker 3: I enter Surfing Championships. Yes, so I have found this
Speaker 3: rashi and it is called Avali the brand, and it
Speaker 3: is like a cropped rashi, so it stops just above
Speaker 3: your belly button, long sleeved, great neckline. It since's in
Speaker 3: at the waist a little bit, so you've still got
Speaker 3: shape rather than looking like the three year old in
Speaker 3: a nappy. It's not cheap. It's eighty five dollars, but
Speaker 3: it is made from this special material. It's made from
Speaker 3: pre and post consumer waste that would otherwise be polluted,
Speaker 3: so it's sustainable c which I absolutely love, and the
Speaker 3: quality is ridiculous. I will have it forever. And it's
Speaker 3: also I was thinking it would be really good if
Speaker 3: you're pregnant because it kind of just ends above your
Speaker 3: little bump. You can wear a full piece underneath or whatever.
Speaker 3: Always have it on. Every time I wear it, I
Speaker 3: get a compliment.
Speaker 2: You know, how are you just saying about making rashi
Speaker 2: is a bit sexy or a bit nice? Is that
Speaker 2: I've got rashi? I think it's in peace. You know
Speaker 2: that brand. Yeah, it's got a full zip and I
Speaker 2: always wear it like a zip just for a little
Speaker 2: bit of you know.
Speaker 4: And my friend when I used to go to the
Speaker 4: beach with the other time, she'd always come up to
Speaker 4: me and just do this bit back up like it
Speaker 4: was a mistake.
Speaker 3: You get some bad I'm trying to be hot.
Speaker 2: It's clearly not working. She'd just be like, hey, I dull,
Speaker 2: I think you've come a bit undone.
Speaker 1: Do you know what we have to do is change
Speaker 1: the name rashi if it's going to be sexy.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, your spot on what do they call it?
Speaker 3: They call it the green MIDI rashy top. I think
Speaker 3: the word rashi, I think we can sexify that.
Speaker 2: It's very Australian that, yeah, we don't really call them
Speaker 2: thatwhere else. I'm going to get in trouble because I
Speaker 2: keep recommending audiobooks and I'm listening to another one. It's
Speaker 2: because I drive all the time, right, because I drive
Speaker 2: a lot. Audiobooks are my friend. And I am reading
Speaker 2: listening to a book at the minute, a memoir by
Speaker 2: Ioni Sky. Do you know who Ione Sky is?
Speaker 1: So?
Speaker 2: Ione Sky was an IT girl and nineties it girl
Speaker 2: in a big way, late eighties early nineties it girl.
Speaker 2: She was the coolest of the California girl. She is
Speaker 2: the daughter not that he had anything to do with
Speaker 2: her when she was young of Donovan Leitch, who is
Speaker 2: a big sixties star. Her mom was like a real
Speaker 2: it girl who'd been involved with all these different rock stars. Anyway,
Speaker 2: So Ione Sky became an actress and she was in
Speaker 2: Say Anything with John Cusack and these are all movies
Speaker 2: before your Time and the Rachel.
Speaker 1: Papers holding up yeah, the famous one was holding.
Speaker 2: Up the tape deck. She lived with Anthony Keats from
Speaker 2: the Red Hot Chili Peppers when she was sixteen. Right
Speaker 2: then she marries ad Rock from the Beastie Boys. There's
Speaker 2: a very famous gen X line who he's like me
Speaker 2: and IONI goes together like cheese and macaroni. How do
Speaker 2: you not know this?
Speaker 3: I only know the Anthony ketis anyway.
Speaker 2: And then nowadays she lives in Australia, is married to
Speaker 2: Ben Lee. They have children, like there's a hot sheet.
Speaker 2: This woman has lived a life, right and I don't know.
Speaker 3: That ben Lee data clar day, Yes, I know how
Speaker 3: many different?
Speaker 2: How many? It's very exciting. Anyway, I'm interviewing Ione soon
Speaker 2: for mid and so I'm listening to her audio book
Speaker 2: and it's a memoir. It's called Say Everything, Play on
Speaker 2: Say any Thing, And it is so good because she
Speaker 2: is just putting it all out there and it's got
Speaker 2: all the juice in there about the famous boyfriends and stuff,
Speaker 2: but also a lot more. And the other thing that
Speaker 2: is so interesting about it, particularly the early years, is
Speaker 2: you know, we've talked a few times about how maybe
Speaker 2: we've extended childhood and she was coming of age in
Speaker 2: Hollywood when like Drew Barrymore was out at nightclubs doing
Speaker 2: coke when she was like thirteen.
Speaker 1: Did you read her memoir back in the day.
Speaker 2: I haven't, but I so should have done. Now I'm
Speaker 2: on a memoir jack through the through which we parent
Speaker 2: now or see teenagers Now you're constantly just going, how
Speaker 2: are you doing that when you were this age? This
Speaker 2: age she was living in la with this in this
Speaker 2: bohemian world, and then she has no problem with the
Speaker 2: fact that all her boyfriends are eight years older than her. Like,
Speaker 2: it's just so interesting. And then she's such a smart
Speaker 2: woman and a beautiful writer. And anyway, I am loving it.
Speaker 2: It's called Say Everything by Ione Sky.
Speaker 1: Is she mad at her parents for sort of letting
Speaker 1: her run a mark or does she see that as cool?
Speaker 2: It's neither of those things, just tells it how it is.
Speaker 2: And then obviously later in life, when she's, you know,
Speaker 2: like all of us, working out her issues and she
Speaker 2: goes through lots of different she becomes a Buddhist and
Speaker 2: she's this and she's that, and she's a very interesting person.
Speaker 2: You know, that's all part of who she was. But
Speaker 2: it's not like a raging takedown of that. It's just
Speaker 2: a kind of this is how it was. And also
Speaker 2: I love memoirs when it's kind of written as if
Speaker 2: you're in the moment. So she's, you know, she's talking
Speaker 2: about what kind of figure her mother was and the
Speaker 2: different step dads and this and that, but not with
Speaker 2: an adult like judgment on it. It's just really good
Speaker 2: and I'm loving it. And it's also juicy, very juicy.
Speaker 1: Oh that sounds so good. I love it. Girls of
Speaker 1: all varieties. So I will look up that book. I
Speaker 1: have a memoir too.
Speaker 2: He reads this one as well, Amelia.
Speaker 1: Yes, his name is Great and Carter, and the book
Speaker 1: is called When the Going Was Good Great and Carter, Holly,
Speaker 1: I know you know who he is. I Jesse Nothing Okay,
Speaker 1: editor of Vanity Fair during its golden era, so he
Speaker 1: was the editor of that magazine for about twenty five years.
Speaker 1: He quit in twenty seventeen because Anna Winter cut his
Speaker 1: budgets back too much, which relatable, and it is full
Speaker 1: of gossip. So Vanity Fair was like the magazine to
Speaker 1: read if you wanted to know about Hollywood, if you
Speaker 1: wanted to know about fame and how it worked in
Speaker 1: the nineties and the two thousands. So, for instance, he
Speaker 1: threw the dinner where Princess Diana wore her famous revenge dress,
Speaker 1: the black off the shoulder number that might be one
Speaker 1: of the most famous dresses of all time. He was
Speaker 1: the first person to make fun of Donald Trump back
Speaker 1: in the eighties when he was a failed businessman in
Speaker 1: New York. And he tells this amazing anecdote, which is
Speaker 1: he was running a kind of upstart, prank filled magazine
Speaker 1: at the time called Spy, and they decided to send
Speaker 1: checks with very small denominations to New York's richest people and.
Speaker 3: See if they would cash the check.
Speaker 1: So they started off with checks for one dollar and
Speaker 1: eleven cents and they sent them out to about twenty
Speaker 1: millionaires and billionaires around New York City. And of course
Speaker 1: with checks you got to sign them. For those of
Speaker 1: us who maybe have never cashed a check, you have
Speaker 1: to sign the back of it yourself, and then you
Speaker 1: have to take it to the bank to get the
Speaker 1: money deposited. And of those twenty millionaires and billionaires, about
Speaker 1: half of them cashed the check for a dollar and
Speaker 1: eleven cents. Then they decided, okay, second round. Everyone who
Speaker 1: cashed that first check got sent a check for sixty
Speaker 1: four cents, and thirteen people, including Rupert Murdoch, banked the checks.
Speaker 1: Check was for thirteen cents, and one person cash the
Speaker 1: check and it was Donald Trump.
Speaker 2: That's a great story.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's journalism, right, yeah, Watergate. So he was
Speaker 1: also the first person to ever point out that Donald
Speaker 1: Trump's fingers are really short. He came up with the
Speaker 1: phrase short fingered vulgarian. Oh wow, but this is it's
Speaker 1: not a political book, like despite the I mean, Donald
Speaker 1: Trump wasn't a political figure at the time. He mentions
Speaker 1: that Adrian Brody tried to steal a lamp from the
Speaker 1: Vanity Fair Oscars party once because they had a very
Speaker 1: famous Oscars party every year. And Anna Wintall loves to
Speaker 1: order a rare steak when she goes out and she
Speaker 1: always calls for the bill before everyone else is finished eating.
Speaker 3: Why does that tell me so much? It just tells
Speaker 3: me everything I need so good.
Speaker 1: I wish I could be someone who orders a rare steak.
Speaker 1: I order my steak medium well. But he's very good
Speaker 1: at throwing dinner party. So there's also some service journalism
Speaker 1: in here. News you can use. One tidbit I loved
Speaker 1: is that he says that in America, when you throw
Speaker 1: a dinner party, you put husbands and wives or married
Speaker 1: partners next to each other. In the UK, in Britain, Holly,
Speaker 1: you'll need to confirm this for me. Apparently you put
Speaker 1: the married people at the same table, but not seated
Speaker 1: next to each.
Speaker 2: Other, definitely not seated next to each other.
Speaker 1: And then in Europe you put them at completely different
Speaker 1: tables because you know that the best thing about being
Speaker 1: married is that when you leave the dinner you can
Speaker 1: gossip about everyone at the dinner and it maximizes your
Speaker 1: gossip potential. And I just loved that.
Speaker 2: That's great.
Speaker 3: I love that so much.
Speaker 2: What's it called again, Amelia?
Speaker 1: When the going was good?
Speaker 3: After the break and a cold friend test photo shoots
Speaker 3: and three trips to the cinema. It is our best
Speaker 3: and Worst.
Speaker 2: One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
Speaker 2: and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link
Speaker 2: in the show notes to get us in your ears
Speaker 2: five days a week. And a huge thank you to
Speaker 2: all our current subscribers. It's time for Best and Worse.
Speaker 2: It's the part of the show where we, you know,
Speaker 2: dig a little bit into our personal lives and tell
Speaker 2: you what's been going on. I'm going to start with you,
Speaker 2: Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 3: My worst is that Mia and I swapped cars for
Speaker 3: a day because yeah, she needed my boot for something,
Speaker 3: and I drove her carsh has an electric car. Didn't
Speaker 3: really know how to drive it, pretended I did.
Speaker 2: That's so green of her. I don't think.
Speaker 3: You don't even turn it on, like it just knows anyway.
Speaker 3: So I get into a car and I drive home.
Speaker 3: And then a little bit later, I'm like, okay, we'll
Speaker 3: go and swap it back and I get in the
Speaker 3: car won't turn on.
Speaker 2: What is that because you don't know how to?
Speaker 3: I thought that.
Speaker 2: I feel like looking for bunch presses randomly pushing shit
Speaker 2: the window That's the.
Speaker 3: Thing about a car that doesn't turn on is you
Speaker 3: don't know when it's broken because you're like, it's not
Speaker 3: an ignition thing. So then it starts, the brake lights
Speaker 3: start going, starts coming up with these weird things on
Speaker 3: the dashboard, and I was like, I'm sure this is
Speaker 3: just a weird electric car thing. So I take a
Speaker 3: video send it to me out and she's like, I
Speaker 3: have simply never seen that before. And I was like,
Speaker 3: oh no, I've broken the car. So anyway, that had
Speaker 3: to get Toad that you had to get Maya's car Toe,
Speaker 3: I had to get it Toad. They still don't know
Speaker 3: what's wrong with it. I don't know what I did,
Speaker 3: But what.
Speaker 1: Did you say to it? Jesse mouth tape?
Speaker 3: I know. I think that might be why me is
Speaker 3: not here, because I don't think she doesn't a carp.
Speaker 3: I don't know how she's getting anywhere.
Speaker 2: She doesn't know how to get anywhere because I broke
Speaker 2: her car. I'm stuck in my house now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so we've just been doing the show without
Speaker 3: her because she's stuck at home with no car. I
Speaker 3: think she's mad at me anywhere. We'll ask her next week.
Speaker 3: My best though, is also to do with Maya. We
Speaker 3: did a photo shoot last week. Did you guys do
Speaker 3: a photo shoot with hair and makeup?
Speaker 2: Wasn't involved? Why wasn't I involved?
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 3: Well, well, because Meya and I are models, we always
Speaker 3: say out yeah. So it was a promo thing for
Speaker 3: a magazine that's going to come out in a few weeks.
Speaker 3: But we got our hair and makeup done and we
Speaker 3: got all like styled and dressed. Maya got like roused
Speaker 3: on by a stylist because.
Speaker 2: I'd love to see that because I've done lots of
Speaker 2: phototooes in me and not at that level probably, But
Speaker 2: she hates it. She doesn't like being told what to wear.
Speaker 2: She doesn't like having her hair and makeup done. I
Speaker 2: love having my hair and makeup done.
Speaker 3: She would pick things and the stylist was like, absolutely not,
Speaker 3: and I was like, I love this stylist.
Speaker 2: Did she do what she was told?
Speaker 3: She did what she was told and she ended up
Speaker 3: looking fabulous. She did anyway. I loved this stylist. I
Speaker 3: need her in my life.
Speaker 2: But did you look amazing too?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 3: I loved what. I just walked in and just said,
Speaker 3: put me in something, and I walked out and it
Speaker 3: was fantastic.
Speaker 1: And I admit that I saw a photo with that.
Speaker 3: Oh to tell us, tell us what you think? Ah,
Speaker 3: do you love it? I cate, I loved your skirt.
Speaker 1: Can you just your skirt? Oh?
Speaker 3: I wore this really cool. It was a skirt with
Speaker 3: like a print on it. But the issue was that
Speaker 3: I think I get nervous knees in photos, which I
Speaker 3: didn't realize that was an issue I have. But the
Speaker 3: photographer who's a very famous, like amazing photographer, taught us
Speaker 3: how to look hot.
Speaker 1: What do you do?
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm so glad you asked. So you need to
Speaker 3: lean forward from your ankles right. So apparently what we do,
Speaker 3: and this is what I do, camera comes out, lean back,
Speaker 3: loose my neck right, and I look horrible.
Speaker 1: Why are we doing that? Why are we leaning back?
Speaker 3: And I don't know. What we're meant to do is
Speaker 3: your calves are meant to hurt, So you lean forward
Speaker 3: through your calves, so you're looking towards the camera and
Speaker 3: your chin's out, chins out, nose towards the camera. That's
Speaker 3: what we're doing. Chin up the way like the bea
Speaker 3: for everyone.
Speaker 2: It's just about service journalism this is very important.
Speaker 3: And he just kept saying, shake hat your knees, shake
Speaker 3: hat your knees. And then I saw the fight days later,
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, I did need to shake my
Speaker 3: knees out. They look nervous. We learned how to be
Speaker 3: and I can't wait for everyone to say the fighter.
Speaker 2: This is really not good news for me, Amelia. What
Speaker 2: was your worst of the week.
Speaker 1: So you know how there are big ticket items that
Speaker 1: you spend money on that you feel good about, So
Speaker 1: I'd put buying flight tickets in there. I'd even put
Speaker 1: buying a sofa in there. Things that you don't feel
Speaker 1: good about spending a lot of money on dental work
Speaker 1: of any kind, sorry dentists, but I resent it. I
Speaker 1: resent every cent that I spend the dentist. And the
Speaker 1: other thing that I would put in that category is mattresses. Now,
Speaker 1: Big Mattress is always telling me you got to spend
Speaker 1: half your life on a mattress. I know that, but
Speaker 1: they're so expensive and I don't want to buy one.
Speaker 1: As a result, I have had a mattress that I
Speaker 1: think I got from a roommate of mine in two
Speaker 1: thousand and six that she had purchased from my Kia. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: and I think it's probably bad for both my life
Speaker 1: and my marriage to keep this mattress. And it's come
Speaker 1: to the point were I need to my new ones.
Speaker 1: So I know that everyone's buying mattresses online now, but
Speaker 1: I went into a mattress shop because I'm kind of
Speaker 1: old fashioned that way. I just got completely overwhelmed latex
Speaker 1: versus memory foam. What price you want? You can pretty
Speaker 1: much pick a mattress at literally any price point. Which
Speaker 1: size mattress do you get? It's all very confusing. And
Speaker 1: then I went on Reddit because that's my answer to everything,
Speaker 1: and in fact, there is a whole Reddit board about mattresses.
Speaker 1: But that's made me even more confused. Either if you
Speaker 1: have strong thoughts or mattresses that I should know.
Speaker 2: About, I feel very similar to you that I absolutely
Speaker 2: hate buying them. And I hate to think this, but
Speaker 2: I should admit this.
Speaker 3: How old is mattress?
Speaker 5: I think until recently we were sleeping on the mattress
Speaker 5: that my water's broken, Maida, I think until very recently,
Speaker 5: and every time you change the sheet, she's just.
Speaker 2: Like, oh god, yeah, no, they're not fun. They're not
Speaker 2: fun to buy and mattresses one of those things you
Speaker 2: have to do. You go in and you look at
Speaker 2: the absolute cheapest one. Yeah, if you've got a bit
Speaker 2: more money in your pocket, you go, well, I'm not
Speaker 2: going to get the absolute cheapest one, but I'm certainly
Speaker 2: not going to get the most expensive one. So we
Speaker 2: just move up a little bit.
Speaker 3: It's on the wine list. You get the second cheapest one. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I need the chardonnay of mattress position. So, my
Speaker 1: best I have seen a movie at the cinema three times,
Speaker 1: and I'm somehow not angry about it. Let me explain
Speaker 1: what happened. Bridget Jones four.
Speaker 3: I really liked it.
Speaker 2: May I walked out of that movie. I quite enjoyed it.
Speaker 2: But you have seen it three times at the movies.
Speaker 1: Now here's why. So when the first Bridge Jones came out,
Speaker 1: I think I overidentified with her a little bit much.
Speaker 1: I think that everyone started to think that I was
Speaker 1: Bridget Jones, which, looking back on it, you know, at
Speaker 1: the time I was flattered. Now I understand that that
Speaker 1: actually wasn't a compliment that everyone associated me with Bridget Jones.
Speaker 1: So this movie is coming and people keep saying to me, oh,
Speaker 1: let's go and see that. You love Bridget Jones twenty
Speaker 1: years on and I'd say, yeah, yeah, gah. But then
Speaker 1: I went to see it with one friend and then
Speaker 1: another friend said, you went to see Bridget Jones without me,
Speaker 1: and she was so hurt that I realized that to
Speaker 1: mend our relationship, I actually would need to go and
Speaker 1: see it again. So I went to see it with her,
Speaker 1: and then my mother said to me, you went to
Speaker 1: see it without it needs But then I went to
Speaker 1: see it with her, And every time I've just had
Speaker 1: to do it for relationship maintenance purposes. But I have
Speaker 1: to say about this movie that this movie should not
Speaker 1: have been good. It is Bridget Jones. Fat. No one
Speaker 1: thought this was going to be good. Here's my pitch
Speaker 1: for it. I find it an incredibly moving meditation on
Speaker 1: the complications and heartbreaks of midlife. Have I sold you
Speaker 1: on this already?
Speaker 2: I think you're right. When we were watching it, we
Speaker 2: went to see it, and may I did love it,
Speaker 2: but she didn't give it enough of a chance because
Speaker 2: it does start off with a lot of the usual tropes,
Speaker 2: but then it actually gets really quite deep.
Speaker 3: I cried, It's about life after death. Yeah, it's about
Speaker 3: the stuff.
Speaker 1: It's about Hugh Grant in it, and I'm sorry that
Speaker 1: man is getting better with age. Three scenes and in
Speaker 1: one of them he's in a hospital gown. No spoilers,
Speaker 1: and he still steals the show.
Speaker 3: Loved it, Loved it.
Speaker 2: Side recommendation on that Hugh Grant on SmartLess Startless. I
Speaker 2: don't always love SmartLess, but Hugh Grant's interview on SmartLess,
Speaker 2: I was laughing so loudly I nearly crushed the car.
Speaker 2: That wasn't good. My worst of the week is rodent
Speaker 2: related in that you won't be surprised to hear that.
Speaker 2: On my front porch in my house, I have a
Speaker 2: big plastic box like the ones you get from Bunnings
Speaker 2: that's full of garden stuff because you know, I'm a gardener,
Speaker 2: as we know, and I go in there all the
Speaker 2: time to get things like pots and shovels and whatever.
Speaker 3: Right soil.
Speaker 2: And I went in there the other day and I
Speaker 2: saw this brown thing like moving really quickly, and I
Speaker 2: thought it's either a mouse or a rat or a frog.
Speaker 2: And I slammed the door lid of the box and
Speaker 2: I ran into and I was like, because I'm not
Speaker 2: a worse about. I don't mind snakes, I don't mind spiders,
Speaker 2: I don't mind cockroaches, I don't mind any of that.
Speaker 2: I'm the person who always gets the huntsmen down, you know,
Speaker 2: when you've got the spider on the wall, I don't
Speaker 2: even flinch. But I cannot stand rodents like I cannot
Speaker 2: stand them. And I see them. I think they know
Speaker 2: and they stalk me because when I'm in the city,
Speaker 2: I see rats all the time. I see them all
Speaker 2: the time, and I don't think everyone else does. I
Speaker 2: think I manifest them.
Speaker 3: They don't bother me half as much as a side.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I can't be them anyway. So there
Speaker 2: was a mouse in my porch and I thought, I'm
Speaker 2: we were going to have to move out of the house,
Speaker 2: and like maybe never go back.
Speaker 1: Got it down.
Speaker 2: And then the problem was is Brent, of course had sympathy,
Speaker 2: but other things to do with his life, because you know,
Speaker 2: he doesn't live to serve, which is unfortunate. And so
Speaker 2: he said, I'll get to that later. I'll go in
Speaker 2: there later and I'll find the mouse. And I went
Speaker 2: go in there now, and he went and looked, and
Speaker 2: he said, yeah, definitely a mouse maybe more than one.
Speaker 2: And then but I can't deal with it now, And
Speaker 2: I was like, so then I had days where I
Speaker 2: wanted to do all these things agune, but clearly I
Speaker 2: couldn't open the box. I needed to go in and
Speaker 2: get things out of it. I needed to put things in.
Speaker 2: I couldn't. So there's just a big past anyway. That
Speaker 2: was very stressful.
Speaker 1: Wit, But is there no resolution to the story?
Speaker 2: No, there is a resolution because then I went away
Speaker 2: for a few days. I've been away for a few
Speaker 2: days and Brent very proudly sent me a picture of
Speaker 2: the big box up on its side, all cleared out,
Speaker 2: and he did it and the composition. I didn't marry him,
Speaker 2: but maybe I will if he can make the micek
Speaker 2: go away.
Speaker 3: But the question is where did it go?
Speaker 2: That's my Roman empire now is where did the mice go?
Speaker 1: Be?
Speaker 3: Ask questions I can't keillar.
Speaker 1: Oh, my college, have you ever considered watching rather tooy
Speaker 1: just as a kind of immersion exercise? It's really cute?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I can't deal anyway. My best of
Speaker 2: the week, though, is that the Nicole of my friendship group,
Speaker 2: one of my great mates, had a big birthday at
Speaker 2: the weekend of fiftieth. She always organizes all the birthdays
Speaker 2: and the girl's trips and the nights out and all
Speaker 2: those things, and all the rest of us are completely
Speaker 2: flaky and crap. But she obviously couldn't organize her own
Speaker 2: fiftieth birthday, so I had to do it. Poor Jesse
Speaker 2: knows about this because she and Ruth and all everybody
Speaker 2: have been living through me talking about the group chat
Speaker 2: dramas the did she like her gift?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 3: She did?
Speaker 2: Me being the person to organize like the gift and
Speaker 2: then all the money from all the different bank accounts
Speaker 2: and then do people like it? Don't they? I'd put
Speaker 2: one of the wrong people in the group chat who
Speaker 2: wasn't invited, and they were like, oh, I didn't know
Speaker 2: there was a dinner on Saturday night, and now I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, not for you. It was very stressful. However,
Speaker 2: the reason it was my best of the week is
Speaker 2: I passed by in a cold test. The dinner went
Speaker 2: off just fine. Nothing terrible happened. We did forget to
Speaker 2: sing Happy Birthday, but we rectified that the next day.
Speaker 1: Did you do the seating chat? Holla?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I did not but I should have done.
Speaker 2: I should have done. And then we had a big
Speaker 2: family gathering on Sunday and it was one of those lovely,
Speaker 2: heart filling weekends. But my god, if I never have
Speaker 2: to organize a social event again, I will be here.
Speaker 3: I hate the pressure, I hate the press. Sure of
Speaker 3: it all going well.
Speaker 1: I'm definitely the organizer in my friendship group. And I
Speaker 1: did organize my own fortieth birthday and it was great.
Speaker 2: Oh why would you do that?
Speaker 1: You love organizing people and telling them what to do
Speaker 1: and where to go.
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2: That is all we have time for today, And a
Speaker 2: massive thank you to you, Amelia for filling in for
Speaker 2: me this week. It's been a pleasure as always to
Speaker 2: have you, and to the out louders for being here
Speaker 2: with us today and all week. We're going to be
Speaker 2: back in your ears next time next week rather Monday,
Speaker 2: my God's Friday. My head's fallen off, Jesse, Amelia, take
Speaker 2: us home.
Speaker 3: A big thank you to our team group executive producer
Speaker 3: Ruth Devine, executive producer Emmeline Gazillis, our.
Speaker 1: Audio producer is Leah Porges, our video producer is Josh Green,
Speaker 1: and our junior content producers, a Coco and a special
Speaker 1: shout out to Tessa who looked after my son during
Speaker 1: this record.
Speaker 2: Bye out loud as We know you're not quite ready
Speaker 2: to say goodbye yet, so we thought we'd leave you
Speaker 2: with a little bit of a tea for a conversation
Speaker 2: we had on a subscriber episode this week. It was
Speaker 2: me and Miya and Amelia and we didn't ask us anything,
Speaker 2: and we covered all kinds of ground, including of course
Speaker 2: a bit of US politics. Maya and Amelia's friendship story
Speaker 2: which was beautiful and I.
Speaker 1: Have to add that we also talked about whether or
Speaker 1: not Holly Waynwright is still wearing her shape We're to
Speaker 1: the Beach.
Speaker 3: I think I got a DM about that and I
Speaker 3: was like, Holly, the people want to know.
Speaker 2: It's a great app. There's a link to listen in
Speaker 2: the show notes.
Speaker 3: Shout out to any Mum and mea subscribers listening. If
Speaker 3: you love the show and you want to support us,
Speaker 3: subscribing to Mom and Mia is the very best way
Speaker 3: to do so. There's a link in the episode description