1
00:00:10,622 --> 00:00:13,342
Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

2
00:00:13,822 --> 00:00:17,182
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

3
00:00:17,222 --> 00:00:18,782
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

4
00:00:20,422 --> 00:00:24,461
Speaker 3: I've entered my Rashi era. Think about a rashie is

5
00:00:24,462 --> 00:00:25,941
Speaker 3: that I don't want to be a three year old

6
00:00:26,182 --> 00:00:29,462
Speaker 3: at a public pool, right, I want to be Kate

7
00:00:29,542 --> 00:00:32,342
Speaker 3: Bosworth in Blue Crats. Can we remember that now?

8
00:00:32,582 --> 00:00:33,382
Speaker 1: Reference Jersey.

9
00:00:33,942 --> 00:00:34,582
Speaker 3: I knew you would.

10
00:00:34,742 --> 00:00:37,861
Speaker 2: I've got rashi. It's got a full zip and I

11
00:00:37,942 --> 00:00:41,342
Speaker 2: always wear it like all the wow and just for

12
00:00:41,382 --> 00:00:42,262
Speaker 2: a little bit of peanut.

13
00:00:42,942 --> 00:00:44,942
Speaker 4: And my friend when I used to go to the

14
00:00:44,942 --> 00:00:46,742
Speaker 4: beach from the other time, she'd always come up to

15
00:00:46,782 --> 00:00:49,502
Speaker 4: me and just do this bit back up like it

16
00:00:49,662 --> 00:00:50,422
Speaker 4: was a mistake.

17
00:00:51,742 --> 00:00:52,902
Speaker 3: I'm trying to be hot.

18
00:00:56,942 --> 00:00:59,662
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to MoMA Mia out Loud and to

19
00:00:59,742 --> 00:01:02,582
Speaker 2: our Friday show where we do not talk about the news.

20
00:01:02,902 --> 00:01:05,142
Speaker 2: We talk about other things. It's like a whole mental

21
00:01:05,222 --> 00:01:08,661
Speaker 2: la la laughingers in this situation. Today is Friday, the

22
00:01:08,661 --> 00:01:11,222
Speaker 2: eleventh of eight, and my name is Hollywayin Wright.

23
00:01:11,462 --> 00:01:15,222
Speaker 3: I am Jesse Stevens, and I am Amelia Lester, and

24
00:01:15,302 --> 00:01:18,342
Speaker 3: Amelia is joining us remotely today. We now have to

25
00:01:18,342 --> 00:01:20,982
Speaker 3: have that as a caveat ever since when I joined remotely,

26
00:01:21,062 --> 00:01:22,941
Speaker 3: I swear I'm not plugging a chord in properly, but

27
00:01:22,982 --> 00:01:25,542
Speaker 3: I guarantee that Amelia's audio is going to be perfect,

28
00:01:25,862 --> 00:01:26,822
Speaker 3: perfect Amelia.

29
00:01:26,902 --> 00:01:28,382
Speaker 2: But if you wonder if why she sounds a bit

30
00:01:28,462 --> 00:01:29,782
Speaker 2: little different, that's.

31
00:01:29,622 --> 00:01:33,622
Speaker 1: Why I'm swathed in sheepskin right audio.

32
00:01:35,502 --> 00:01:41,182
Speaker 2: On today's show, are we entering the era of d diagnosis?

33
00:01:41,542 --> 00:01:44,021
Speaker 2: We're talking about a new book that's changing the way

34
00:01:44,062 --> 00:01:47,702
Speaker 2: we see what's wrong with us? Also an it girl,

35
00:01:47,742 --> 00:01:50,222
Speaker 2: a magazine mogul, and a rashie. It could be a

36
00:01:50,222 --> 00:01:53,102
Speaker 2: reality show, but it's not. It's our recommendations for the week,

37
00:01:53,742 --> 00:01:56,742
Speaker 2: and a Nicole test, a bingle and multiple viewings of

38
00:01:56,742 --> 00:01:59,982
Speaker 2: a questionable film that's our best and worse. But first,

39
00:02:00,062 --> 00:02:00,862
Speaker 2: Amelia Lester.

40
00:02:01,382 --> 00:02:04,222
Speaker 1: In case you missed it, A professional golfer Ryan McCormick

41
00:02:04,342 --> 00:02:07,181
Speaker 1: has taped his mouth and no it wasn't mouth taping

42
00:02:07,222 --> 00:02:10,342
Speaker 1: for sleep. The American golfer has been had apparently a

43
00:02:10,382 --> 00:02:12,342
Speaker 1: tough year on the golf circuit. As I think you

44
00:02:12,462 --> 00:02:13,862
Speaker 1: probably both know, Holly.

45
00:02:13,702 --> 00:02:16,382
Speaker 2: And Jesse, I'm very closely following the golf circuit at

46
00:02:16,382 --> 00:02:16,862
Speaker 2: all times.

47
00:02:16,982 --> 00:02:19,382
Speaker 3: Me McCormick classic McCormick behavior.

48
00:02:20,582 --> 00:02:23,302
Speaker 1: He knew he was prone to emotional outbursts, so he

49
00:02:23,422 --> 00:02:26,822
Speaker 1: decided that when things weren't going well, he should preempt

50
00:02:26,822 --> 00:02:29,422
Speaker 1: that by taping his mouth. Here is Ryan.

51
00:02:29,742 --> 00:02:32,342
Speaker 3: I mean, at this point, I've tried about everything.

52
00:02:32,382 --> 00:02:33,621
Speaker 4: I've read a lot of books.

53
00:02:33,702 --> 00:02:38,102
Speaker 1: I've talked to people just too angry on the golf course.

54
00:02:38,222 --> 00:02:40,782
Speaker 3: So I have run out of ideas.

55
00:02:40,862 --> 00:02:42,942
Speaker 2: And I thought about the tape thing a couple weeks ago,

56
00:02:43,382 --> 00:02:46,862
Speaker 2: and unfortunately came down to that today.

57
00:02:47,022 --> 00:02:49,022
Speaker 3: I was hoping maybe it would help me. I can't

58
00:02:49,022 --> 00:02:50,181
Speaker 3: say that it did or didn't.

59
00:02:50,622 --> 00:02:53,662
Speaker 2: Golf rage. He's got golf rage and this was his solution.

60
00:02:53,862 --> 00:02:56,262
Speaker 1: My god, don't you feel like mouth tape is one

61
00:02:56,262 --> 00:02:59,102
Speaker 1: of those things where for me, I literally did not

62
00:02:59,342 --> 00:03:01,462
Speaker 1: know of the concept for the first forty years of

63
00:03:01,502 --> 00:03:05,542
Speaker 1: my life, and now it's popping up everywhere all the time. Jesse,

64
00:03:05,702 --> 00:03:08,142
Speaker 1: is there anyone whose mouths you would like to tape?

65
00:03:08,342 --> 00:03:11,061
Speaker 3: Yeah? When I saw this story, I immediately put it

66
00:03:11,062 --> 00:03:13,302
Speaker 3: in our group chat and I said, we should take

67
00:03:13,342 --> 00:03:14,102
Speaker 3: me a's mouth.

68
00:03:14,142 --> 00:03:14,341
Speaker 1: Hut.

69
00:03:14,422 --> 00:03:16,702
Speaker 3: I think that could be a good thing for some workplaces.

70
00:03:17,262 --> 00:03:20,782
Speaker 3: And similarly to McCormick, he was saying he did this

71
00:03:20,822 --> 00:03:23,062
Speaker 3: as well for his fellow golfers. So I feel like

72
00:03:23,142 --> 00:03:26,062
Speaker 3: sometimes it's a kind thing for those around us if

73
00:03:26,062 --> 00:03:29,422
Speaker 3: we know that we've got issues with, say, impulse control,

74
00:03:29,462 --> 00:03:30,582
Speaker 3: as mea sometimes does.

75
00:03:30,742 --> 00:03:33,222
Speaker 2: I feel sorry for Ryan because this is a big

76
00:03:33,262 --> 00:03:35,142
Speaker 2: thing to do when you know the world's cameras are

77
00:03:35,142 --> 00:03:38,502
Speaker 2: on you, right, you know everybody's gonna ask you. And

78
00:03:38,662 --> 00:03:41,342
Speaker 2: I also relate because one of my resting faces is

79
00:03:41,342 --> 00:03:46,902
Speaker 2: that hold my lips together. And when I'm doing that,

80
00:03:47,262 --> 00:03:51,182
Speaker 2: I'm sure I'm doing exactly this. I'm like going, don't

81
00:03:51,222 --> 00:03:53,422
Speaker 2: shay it, don't say it, don't say it. But what

82
00:03:53,462 --> 00:03:55,622
Speaker 2: don't they make his golf game a bit hard? Don't

83
00:03:55,662 --> 00:03:56,782
Speaker 2: have you talk in golf?

84
00:03:56,902 --> 00:04:00,142
Speaker 3: Yeah, so speaking to your caddy about what club you

85
00:04:00,222 --> 00:04:03,262
Speaker 3: want for your next hole quite hard. I want the book,

86
00:04:04,342 --> 00:04:07,582
Speaker 3: a big one for my putter. But I think there's

87
00:04:07,582 --> 00:04:09,782
Speaker 3: something about sports that you play on your own that

88
00:04:09,902 --> 00:04:13,382
Speaker 3: screw in your head. Because I loved tennis growing up

89
00:04:13,822 --> 00:04:15,942
Speaker 3: and I needed tape. I needed two tape.

90
00:04:16,022 --> 00:04:17,742
Speaker 1: You were John McEnroe, Tope.

91
00:04:17,622 --> 00:04:20,702
Speaker 3: I am John McEnroe. You've nailed it. I need a

92
00:04:20,741 --> 00:04:23,061
Speaker 3: tape across my mouth and I need a tape between

93
00:04:23,062 --> 00:04:25,981
Speaker 3: my hand and that racket because the amount of rackets

94
00:04:26,022 --> 00:04:29,902
Speaker 3: I threw. Oh, I screamed, because it's the frustration when

95
00:04:29,902 --> 00:04:31,621
Speaker 3: you're in a team, you get to blame it on others.

96
00:04:31,861 --> 00:04:33,022
Speaker 3: That's why I love this podcast.

97
00:04:33,142 --> 00:04:34,861
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true when we screw it up, you're just

98
00:04:34,902 --> 00:04:37,222
Speaker 2: like that was definitely holly to me.

99
00:04:37,301 --> 00:04:39,741
Speaker 1: It reminds me a little bit also of the way

100
00:04:39,861 --> 00:04:44,382
Speaker 1: that pimple patches have become so big, and you know,

101
00:04:44,501 --> 00:04:46,262
Speaker 1: you don't think of mouth tape is something you can

102
00:04:46,301 --> 00:04:49,381
Speaker 1: wear in public. I'm still figuring out whether pimple patches

103
00:04:49,381 --> 00:04:51,501
Speaker 1: are something I can wear in public. And sometimes I

104
00:04:51,541 --> 00:04:54,341
Speaker 1: wear pimple patches to pick up my children from school

105
00:04:54,501 --> 00:04:57,061
Speaker 1: and they get really angry at me, and they don't

106
00:04:57,142 --> 00:04:59,581
Speaker 1: understand that this is what Justin Bieber and others have

107
00:04:59,662 --> 00:05:00,861
Speaker 1: already said as a trend.

108
00:05:01,662 --> 00:05:05,461
Speaker 2: You know Dochi, who's a very very cool rapper musician,

109
00:05:05,741 --> 00:05:08,261
Speaker 2: she wears face tape like as a statement to pull

110
00:05:08,262 --> 00:05:11,622
Speaker 2: ahead back and like vis face tape on purpose. And

111
00:05:11,662 --> 00:05:14,301
Speaker 2: when she was asked why, she said, and I apologize

112
00:05:14,301 --> 00:05:23,061
Speaker 2: in advance to the producers for this, she said, because it's.

113
00:05:21,861 --> 00:05:25,101
Speaker 3: We are living in the age of diagnosis, but are

114
00:05:25,142 --> 00:05:29,142
Speaker 3: we about to enter a new era, one of d diagnosis,

115
00:05:29,381 --> 00:05:33,181
Speaker 3: where we give some of our pathologies back. This might

116
00:05:33,222 --> 00:05:35,301
Speaker 3: sound provocative, and it is, but I'm going to put

117
00:05:35,301 --> 00:05:38,222
Speaker 3: forward the argument that is being made by an Irish

118
00:05:38,301 --> 00:05:42,901
Speaker 3: physician who specializes in neurology named doctor Suzanne O'Sullivan, and

119
00:05:42,902 --> 00:05:45,901
Speaker 3: then I'd love to hear your thoughts. O'Sullivan has released

120
00:05:45,902 --> 00:05:47,981
Speaker 3: a book. If you haven't seen it, you're about to

121
00:05:47,981 --> 00:05:50,342
Speaker 3: see it everywhere. It is called The Age of Diagnosis,

122
00:05:50,782 --> 00:05:53,421
Speaker 3: and she says that the first job of a doctor

123
00:05:53,582 --> 00:05:57,342
Speaker 3: is to do no harm. She asks, are some diagnoses

124
00:05:57,582 --> 00:06:01,302
Speaker 3: doing more harm than good? So O'Sullivan writes that we

125
00:06:01,861 --> 00:06:05,861
Speaker 3: are not getting sicker, we are attributing more to sickness.

126
00:06:06,301 --> 00:06:09,581
Speaker 3: And medically, when you're getting a diagnosis, it's supposed to

127
00:06:09,702 --> 00:06:13,421
Speaker 3: lead to something. The problem with over diagnosis, in her view,

128
00:06:13,621 --> 00:06:16,101
Speaker 3: is that it can lead to over treatment. We can

129
00:06:16,181 --> 00:06:22,022
Speaker 3: actively create illness and distress, which potentially wastes limited resources

130
00:06:22,022 --> 00:06:24,701
Speaker 3: that could be used for those who are in greater neat.

131
00:06:24,741 --> 00:06:27,541
Speaker 2: Jesse, can I just ask you that quote that's very

132
00:06:28,301 --> 00:06:30,702
Speaker 2: makes absolute sense, but just to expand it a bit more.

133
00:06:30,741 --> 00:06:33,662
Speaker 2: When she says we're not getting sicker, we're attributing more

134
00:06:33,662 --> 00:06:37,222
Speaker 2: to sickness. That means that if there's a certain behavior

135
00:06:37,381 --> 00:06:40,902
Speaker 2: or symptom that you're living with, people were always living

136
00:06:40,941 --> 00:06:43,262
Speaker 2: with it. But now we will say, oh, that's because

137
00:06:43,301 --> 00:06:45,101
Speaker 2: I'm diagnosed with blah.

138
00:06:44,782 --> 00:06:50,501
Speaker 3: Yes, and so we're getting cancers earlier. Pre diabetes is something.

139
00:06:50,501 --> 00:06:54,261
Speaker 3: We've lowered the threshold for pre diabetes, so more people

140
00:06:54,342 --> 00:06:57,502
Speaker 3: understand themselves to be living with illness. And I will

141
00:06:57,541 --> 00:07:00,701
Speaker 3: say there are particular fields where I think there really

142
00:07:00,902 --> 00:07:03,742
Speaker 3: is a rise. But what she is saying is that broadly,

143
00:07:04,181 --> 00:07:07,702
Speaker 3: we've medicalized a lot of things for better, and she

144
00:07:07,821 --> 00:07:10,742
Speaker 3: says in some cases for worse. So one story she

145
00:07:10,782 --> 00:07:13,182
Speaker 3: tells is about a woman who was told she had

146
00:07:13,182 --> 00:07:16,542
Speaker 3: a fifty percent chance of developing Huntington's disease, which is

147
00:07:16,582 --> 00:07:21,422
Speaker 3: a genetic degenerative disorder. Very quickly, she started to notice

148
00:07:21,422 --> 00:07:25,902
Speaker 3: the symptoms, cognitive, unusual body movements. Over time it got worse,

149
00:07:25,941 --> 00:07:28,462
Speaker 3: and finally when she thought, you know, this is as

150
00:07:28,462 --> 00:07:30,742
Speaker 3: bad as it's going to get, she got tested and

151
00:07:31,182 --> 00:07:35,022
Speaker 3: she tested negative. She didn't have it, And we underestimate.

152
00:07:35,182 --> 00:07:38,182
Speaker 3: This is O'Sullivan's point, what the brain does when given

153
00:07:38,182 --> 00:07:42,302
Speaker 3: a diagnosis. I saw an example of this on Instagram recently.

154
00:07:42,422 --> 00:07:44,862
Speaker 3: It was a mum. She's a very kind of famous

155
00:07:44,982 --> 00:07:48,381
Speaker 3: figure and mum talk and on Instagram and she was

156
00:07:48,422 --> 00:07:51,101
Speaker 3: doing this thing I think you too will relate where

157
00:07:51,142 --> 00:07:53,862
Speaker 3: you're cleaning your house and you stop for a minute

158
00:07:53,982 --> 00:07:56,141
Speaker 3: and you look at something and you kind of drift

159
00:07:56,182 --> 00:07:58,742
Speaker 3: off into space. And she put this funny video up

160
00:07:58,782 --> 00:07:59,901
Speaker 3: and said, does anyone relate?

161
00:08:00,062 --> 00:08:00,302
Speaker 1: Right?

162
00:08:00,782 --> 00:08:03,502
Speaker 3: And I went through the comments and there were comments saying,

163
00:08:03,582 --> 00:08:06,982
Speaker 3: you've had an absence seizure, this is dissociation. You need

164
00:08:07,022 --> 00:08:09,821
Speaker 3: to take this video to your doctor. And I thought

165
00:08:10,222 --> 00:08:12,702
Speaker 3: if I was a doctor and people were coming to

166
00:08:12,742 --> 00:08:15,662
Speaker 3: me with videos like this, which was fine. She came

167
00:08:15,702 --> 00:08:17,302
Speaker 3: out of it and everything was fine. Are we just

168
00:08:17,422 --> 00:08:22,342
Speaker 3: pathologizing quite normal human experiences, Holly? Obviously we're not doctors.

169
00:08:22,422 --> 00:08:25,422
Speaker 3: Maya Friedman is a known doctor, but she's not here today,

170
00:08:26,022 --> 00:08:28,662
Speaker 3: and so any questions people have about their actual health

171
00:08:28,702 --> 00:08:33,062
Speaker 3: obviously go and see a professional. But having listened to

172
00:08:33,102 --> 00:08:36,342
Speaker 3: some interviews with O'Sullivan, do you see some of the

173
00:08:36,342 --> 00:08:39,422
Speaker 3: potential downsides of living in the age of diagnosis?

174
00:08:39,622 --> 00:08:43,342
Speaker 2: I do. I listened to an interview with Susann O'Sullivan

175
00:08:43,622 --> 00:08:47,222
Speaker 2: on Armchair Expert that was really interesting. And it has

176
00:08:47,302 --> 00:08:50,142
Speaker 2: to be said that she is she's Irish. I don't

177
00:08:50,142 --> 00:08:53,142
Speaker 2: know why that suddenly somehow makes her seem more is

178
00:08:53,222 --> 00:08:54,462
Speaker 2: so reasonable to me, But.

179
00:08:54,502 --> 00:08:56,262
Speaker 3: She's Irish, does you know what it does?

180
00:08:56,302 --> 00:08:59,262
Speaker 2: She's a doctor with an Irish accent, and she is

181
00:08:59,302 --> 00:09:03,982
Speaker 2: so beautifully nuanced on this Because my first instinct, when

182
00:09:04,542 --> 00:09:06,622
Speaker 2: Jesse you mentioned a while ago that you really wanted

183
00:09:06,622 --> 00:09:09,222
Speaker 2: to talk about this on the show, my first instinct

184
00:09:09,302 --> 00:09:11,502
Speaker 2: is of defensiveness, and I just need to kind of

185
00:09:11,542 --> 00:09:13,462
Speaker 2: explain why so we can get that out of the

186
00:09:13,502 --> 00:09:15,261
Speaker 2: way for this conversation, because I'm sure a lot of

187
00:09:15,262 --> 00:09:18,182
Speaker 2: people listening will feel the same. Very often, when people

188
00:09:18,222 --> 00:09:20,302
Speaker 2: talk about how we live in an age of overdiagnosis,

189
00:09:20,382 --> 00:09:23,782
Speaker 2: they're often talking about kids. They're often talking about parents

190
00:09:23,822 --> 00:09:27,302
Speaker 2: who are seeking diagnoses for their kids for various things,

191
00:09:27,342 --> 00:09:31,982
Speaker 2: And there's almost this tone of conversation that, for obvious reasons,

192
00:09:32,262 --> 00:09:35,902
Speaker 2: really presses buttons in me, which is a suggestion that

193
00:09:36,062 --> 00:09:42,022
Speaker 2: parents are lazy, looking for shortcuts, want to medicate their

194
00:09:42,102 --> 00:09:45,862
Speaker 2: children so they're easier to handle. Just like the identity

195
00:09:46,022 --> 00:09:48,222
Speaker 2: of somehow having a child with the special conduct that

196
00:09:48,982 --> 00:09:52,182
Speaker 2: kind of conversation is a real thing, and it exists,

197
00:09:52,582 --> 00:09:55,822
Speaker 2: and I want us to put that aside for this conversation, right,

198
00:09:55,862 --> 00:09:59,742
Speaker 2: because that's not really what Susann O'Sullivan is talking about.

199
00:09:59,782 --> 00:10:02,262
Speaker 2: She does talk a little bit about childhood diagnosis, but

200
00:10:02,342 --> 00:10:07,022
Speaker 2: she's talking more specifically about well, all of us, but

201
00:10:07,102 --> 00:10:10,262
Speaker 2: adults in the purpose of this conversation, who are over

202
00:10:10,382 --> 00:10:14,502
Speaker 2: diagnosed or seeking diagnosis for things that maybe once we

203
00:10:14,542 --> 00:10:15,622
Speaker 2: would have just lived with.

204
00:10:15,822 --> 00:10:16,022
Speaker 1: Right.

205
00:10:16,062 --> 00:10:18,142
Speaker 2: That's kind of the yes, yeah, and whether that's a

206
00:10:18,142 --> 00:10:21,822
Speaker 2: good thing or not, and pushing back slightly against the

207
00:10:21,862 --> 00:10:24,222
Speaker 2: mainstream view that of course it's a good thing, because

208
00:10:24,262 --> 00:10:26,102
Speaker 2: on the surface of it, when you listen to this,

209
00:10:26,182 --> 00:10:27,822
Speaker 2: you think, well, of course it's a good thing that

210
00:10:27,862 --> 00:10:31,702
Speaker 2: we now know what the signals the spikes of diabetes

211
00:10:31,782 --> 00:10:34,222
Speaker 2: might be, and so prediagnosis is great, or that we're

212
00:10:34,222 --> 00:10:37,902
Speaker 2: catching cancers earlier. We all have people in our lives

213
00:10:37,942 --> 00:10:40,862
Speaker 2: who are around because they caught cancer earlier, so that

214
00:10:41,022 --> 00:10:45,822
Speaker 2: seems really true. Her point about anything negative is kind

215
00:10:45,862 --> 00:10:48,862
Speaker 2: of saying that it can be debilitating. Am I right?

216
00:10:49,102 --> 00:10:50,582
Speaker 2: That's kind of what she's saying.

217
00:10:50,382 --> 00:10:52,462
Speaker 3: Yes, and can we do anything about it?

218
00:10:52,542 --> 00:10:52,702
Speaker 1: Yeah?

219
00:10:52,742 --> 00:10:55,902
Speaker 3: What's the purpose of a diagnosis if there's nothing? Her

220
00:10:55,982 --> 00:10:57,022
Speaker 3: as a doctor can do about it.

221
00:10:57,062 --> 00:10:59,942
Speaker 2: Yeah, So she was saying that she thinks a diagnosis

222
00:10:59,982 --> 00:11:04,582
Speaker 2: is worth seeking if whatever you're living with is debilitating

223
00:11:04,662 --> 00:11:08,062
Speaker 2: to you, is really affecting your life in a negative way.

224
00:11:08,502 --> 00:11:11,102
Speaker 2: And that's kind of a bit of a similar prediagnosis

225
00:11:11,142 --> 00:11:13,502
Speaker 2: that you often talk about addiction. Right, how do you

226
00:11:13,542 --> 00:11:15,942
Speaker 2: know if you're drinking too much or whatever, is it

227
00:11:15,982 --> 00:11:18,022
Speaker 2: impacting your life negative way? She sort of says, that

228
00:11:18,342 --> 00:11:22,902
Speaker 2: is fair game. But if it's just to explain certain

229
00:11:23,422 --> 00:11:26,302
Speaker 2: mysteries in your life that then might overtake you, she's

230
00:11:26,302 --> 00:11:28,982
Speaker 2: saying that's not really a good thing, right, Yes.

231
00:11:29,102 --> 00:11:31,982
Speaker 1: And there's another key distinction that I want to bring

232
00:11:32,062 --> 00:11:34,542
Speaker 1: up that she talks about on that podcast, because I

233
00:11:34,622 --> 00:11:37,222
Speaker 1: too felt wary about this topic, Holly, for all the

234
00:11:37,262 --> 00:11:39,742
Speaker 1: reasons that you mentioned, And I think we have to

235
00:11:39,782 --> 00:11:43,302
Speaker 1: be really careful when talking about it because a lot

236
00:11:43,302 --> 00:11:46,342
Speaker 1: of people with for instance, long COVID or chronic LME

237
00:11:46,422 --> 00:11:49,782
Speaker 1: disease might feel like they're not being believed. She talks

238
00:11:49,822 --> 00:11:54,062
Speaker 1: about the idea that something can be psychosomatic that doesn't

239
00:11:54,102 --> 00:11:57,022
Speaker 1: mean that you've made it up or that you're seeking attention.

240
00:11:57,542 --> 00:11:59,862
Speaker 1: She uses the analogy of when you watch a horror

241
00:11:59,862 --> 00:12:03,542
Speaker 1: film and your heart starts beating fast. Your heart really

242
00:12:03,662 --> 00:12:06,902
Speaker 1: is beating fast. You are really also experiencing a sensation

243
00:12:06,982 --> 00:12:10,382
Speaker 1: of your heart beating fast. That's a psycho somatic reaction.

244
00:12:10,582 --> 00:12:13,942
Speaker 1: It's not something you're making up or seeking out for attention.

245
00:12:14,582 --> 00:12:16,502
Speaker 1: And that was a real a harm moment for me

246
00:12:16,662 --> 00:12:19,742
Speaker 1: in getting my head around this concept of over diagnosis,

247
00:12:19,782 --> 00:12:24,102
Speaker 1: because when we talk about something being psychosomatic, it's real.

248
00:12:24,262 --> 00:12:27,222
Speaker 1: It just means that sometimes a medical doctor might not

249
00:12:27,342 --> 00:12:29,342
Speaker 1: be the right person to help you with it.

250
00:12:29,462 --> 00:12:33,582
Speaker 3: And in fact it's often harder to address or to cure.

251
00:12:33,702 --> 00:12:35,142
Speaker 3: Because I thought it was the same if I went

252
00:12:35,142 --> 00:12:37,982
Speaker 3: to a doctor and they said to me that psychosomatic,

253
00:12:38,102 --> 00:12:40,782
Speaker 3: I would hear you think I'm making this up. And

254
00:12:40,942 --> 00:12:43,742
Speaker 3: what I loved about O'Sullivan talking about it is that

255
00:12:44,382 --> 00:12:46,342
Speaker 3: I feel as though we're on the precipice of a

256
00:12:46,382 --> 00:12:50,102
Speaker 3: lot of research being done in this space. So you know,

257
00:12:50,182 --> 00:12:53,142
Speaker 3: for example, I am a fainter. I have fainted since

258
00:12:53,142 --> 00:12:56,102
Speaker 3: I was a kid. I've been looking for a diagnosis

259
00:12:56,382 --> 00:12:58,822
Speaker 3: to do with my fainting. I would love a diagnosis

260
00:12:59,022 --> 00:13:00,982
Speaker 3: so that I can understand it, so that I can

261
00:13:01,022 --> 00:13:03,822
Speaker 3: explain it to people, so that I can potentially treat it.

262
00:13:04,582 --> 00:13:06,902
Speaker 3: I've had to go to a cardiologist and have my

263
00:13:06,982 --> 00:13:09,422
Speaker 3: heart checked in a bunch of things, and that's always good.

264
00:13:09,622 --> 00:13:12,462
Speaker 3: Want to rule things out. But that's what doctors often do,

265
00:13:12,582 --> 00:13:15,662
Speaker 3: is they rule things out. Doctors often see patients that

266
00:13:15,702 --> 00:13:20,342
Speaker 3: have unexplained whatever, like the weird things the human body

267
00:13:20,382 --> 00:13:24,262
Speaker 3: does that don't fit into a diagnosis. And when I

268
00:13:24,262 --> 00:13:26,982
Speaker 3: think about the fainting thing, I go, do I want

269
00:13:27,022 --> 00:13:30,381
Speaker 3: my pain validated or my fear validated that this thing

270
00:13:30,422 --> 00:13:33,502
Speaker 3: that happens to me when I'm out in public, when

271
00:13:33,862 --> 00:13:37,342
Speaker 3: I've hit my head and I've really hurt myself. Sometimes

272
00:13:37,342 --> 00:13:40,302
Speaker 3: what we can hear when we're not given a diagnosis

273
00:13:40,742 --> 00:13:44,742
Speaker 3: or a really clear treatment plan is you don't believe

274
00:13:44,782 --> 00:13:48,062
Speaker 3: my pain, or you're not listening to me. I realized

275
00:13:48,102 --> 00:13:50,742
Speaker 3: through listening to O'Sullivan that that's not how medicine works.

276
00:13:50,782 --> 00:13:53,942
Speaker 3: I think that I had a misunderstanding about how it worked.

277
00:13:54,102 --> 00:13:57,102
Speaker 2: We wouldn't you like a cure for your fainting, because

278
00:13:57,582 --> 00:14:00,142
Speaker 2: I think one of the things about this that's interesting

279
00:14:00,422 --> 00:14:02,702
Speaker 2: is she sort of talks about how we all want answers,

280
00:14:03,222 --> 00:14:05,462
Speaker 2: and of course we do, because we've all got to

281
00:14:05,462 --> 00:14:07,902
Speaker 2: get on with our lives, right, I kind of feel

282
00:14:07,982 --> 00:14:10,942
Speaker 2: like we don't thrive an uncertain Most of us have

283
00:14:10,982 --> 00:14:13,382
Speaker 2: a choice to keep going. We've got like soldiering on

284
00:14:13,462 --> 00:14:15,942
Speaker 2: isn't a choice, it's reality. We've got to keep working,

285
00:14:15,942 --> 00:14:17,902
Speaker 2: we've got to keep parenting, we've got to keep caring,

286
00:14:17,942 --> 00:14:19,862
Speaker 2: we've got to keep you know, doing whatever it is

287
00:14:19,902 --> 00:14:23,982
Speaker 2: we're doing. So therefore any kind of solution or cure

288
00:14:24,662 --> 00:14:27,462
Speaker 2: would be very welcome. And then the other part to this,

289
00:14:27,542 --> 00:14:29,382
Speaker 2: of course, is that we live in a world where

290
00:14:29,382 --> 00:14:31,862
Speaker 2: there is a pill or a supplement or a treatment

291
00:14:31,902 --> 00:14:35,982
Speaker 2: plan for absolutely everything, and so we're also living with

292
00:14:36,062 --> 00:14:38,462
Speaker 2: a lot of pressure, a lot of industries who are

293
00:14:38,462 --> 00:14:41,022
Speaker 2: deeply invested in selling us a cure for whatever it

294
00:14:41,062 --> 00:14:43,862
Speaker 2: is we've got. And although that sounds cynical, but if

295
00:14:43,902 --> 00:14:46,862
Speaker 2: I was you, I don't think you're being indulgent to

296
00:14:46,982 --> 00:14:50,542
Speaker 2: want to know why you keep fainting, considering the risks

297
00:14:50,622 --> 00:14:53,262
Speaker 2: if you're fainting when you're you know, looking after your child,

298
00:14:53,382 --> 00:14:55,462
Speaker 2: or as you said, fell and hit your head, wanting

299
00:14:55,462 --> 00:14:56,982
Speaker 2: a cure for that isn't unreasonable.

300
00:14:57,062 --> 00:14:58,782
Speaker 3: But why do I feel like it would be more

301
00:14:58,862 --> 00:15:01,462
Speaker 3: valid condition if I had a name and there is

302
00:15:01,502 --> 00:15:04,102
Speaker 3: something in me, and I don't think that that is

303
00:15:04,102 --> 00:15:06,502
Speaker 3: a fault of the individual or of me. In fact,

304
00:15:06,742 --> 00:15:08,622
Speaker 3: this is the way the system is set up, right.

305
00:15:08,702 --> 00:15:13,302
Speaker 3: It's like from every from ndis to access to certain tests,

306
00:15:13,342 --> 00:15:16,942
Speaker 3: to access to certain treatments. Necessarily, in a lot of

307
00:15:16,982 --> 00:15:21,862
Speaker 3: ways you need diagnosis in order to be catered to

308
00:15:22,062 --> 00:15:24,542
Speaker 3: by this system. So I think this has less to

309
00:15:24,542 --> 00:15:26,302
Speaker 3: do with individuals and more to do with systems.

310
00:15:26,502 --> 00:15:29,102
Speaker 1: What this also made me think about is, I'm sure

311
00:15:29,102 --> 00:15:32,822
Speaker 1: we all know people for whom the connection between mind

312
00:15:32,862 --> 00:15:37,502
Speaker 1: and body is really strong and visceral. For instance, I'm

313
00:15:37,542 --> 00:15:40,902
Speaker 1: thinking of a family member of mine who gets stomach

314
00:15:40,982 --> 00:15:45,382
Speaker 1: issues whenever he's nervous or anxious, and it happens like clockwork,

315
00:15:46,022 --> 00:15:49,022
Speaker 1: and he's always been like that. And I think it's

316
00:15:49,102 --> 00:15:51,782
Speaker 1: because for some people, mind and body are more linked

317
00:15:51,782 --> 00:15:54,942
Speaker 1: than they are for other people. And maybe we should

318
00:15:54,942 --> 00:15:58,542
Speaker 1: note at this point that this author is a neurologist.

319
00:15:58,702 --> 00:16:01,582
Speaker 1: She is a medical doctor. She is not a well

320
00:16:01,622 --> 00:16:03,862
Speaker 1: I guess by medical doctor, I mean to contrast it

321
00:16:03,902 --> 00:16:07,582
Speaker 1: with a psychologist. She's not a psychologist, she's not even

322
00:16:07,622 --> 00:16:11,742
Speaker 1: a psychiatrist. Maybe when you go to the cardiologists about

323
00:16:11,742 --> 00:16:14,422
Speaker 1: your fainting. You do want the cardiologists to give you

324
00:16:14,462 --> 00:16:18,102
Speaker 1: an answer. Yeah, maybe the answer is more in the

325
00:16:18,262 --> 00:16:21,622
Speaker 1: psychosomatical mind realm than it is anything to do with,

326
00:16:21,662 --> 00:16:23,662
Speaker 1: for instance, your heart. And that's why it can feel

327
00:16:23,662 --> 00:16:24,502
Speaker 1: so frustrating.

328
00:16:24,782 --> 00:16:28,102
Speaker 2: We know that women in particular have been understudied, right

329
00:16:28,182 --> 00:16:31,062
Speaker 2: in medical terms, and often dismissed, and women are very

330
00:16:31,222 --> 00:16:36,182
Speaker 2: used to living in like nondescript discomfort, right, we just

331
00:16:36,502 --> 00:16:39,102
Speaker 2: are without conclusion, just the idea of like, of course

332
00:16:39,102 --> 00:16:41,142
Speaker 2: it's normal that you should be in agony for several

333
00:16:41,222 --> 00:16:44,062
Speaker 2: days a month or whatever it is. It's interesting to

334
00:16:44,102 --> 00:16:46,582
Speaker 2: think that we're pushing that, Like we are now very

335
00:16:46,662 --> 00:16:49,702
Speaker 2: much pushing that and saying no, we want answers to

336
00:16:49,742 --> 00:16:52,822
Speaker 2: these things. Are we wrong to want answers to these things?

337
00:16:52,942 --> 00:16:54,542
Speaker 2: Isn't that the way it should be? When we are

338
00:16:54,542 --> 00:16:57,262
Speaker 2: pushing against a sort of a system that has always

339
00:16:57,262 --> 00:17:00,982
Speaker 2: dismissed our discomfort and pain, it feels to me like

340
00:17:01,102 --> 00:17:03,622
Speaker 2: it's the wrong way to go to go. Sure, we'll

341
00:17:03,662 --> 00:17:04,341
Speaker 2: just deal with it.

342
00:17:04,502 --> 00:17:07,782
Speaker 3: I'm comfortable with that being complicated a little bit. But

343
00:17:08,222 --> 00:17:10,621
Speaker 3: I have a friend recent I was having a bunch

344
00:17:10,662 --> 00:17:13,181
Speaker 3: of really really strange health issues and went to her

345
00:17:13,222 --> 00:17:15,501
Speaker 3: doctor and asked for a number of tests, and this

346
00:17:15,542 --> 00:17:19,862
Speaker 3: is becoming increasingly common people asking for tests. They've been empowered,

347
00:17:20,022 --> 00:17:22,742
Speaker 3: they've done their own research, and you know, maybe they

348
00:17:22,742 --> 00:17:26,222
Speaker 3: think that their GP won't necessarily understand where they're coming from.

349
00:17:26,702 --> 00:17:29,702
Speaker 3: And she has a great GP, and the GP basically

350
00:17:29,782 --> 00:17:33,302
Speaker 3: said to her, if we run these tests, we'll find things.

351
00:17:33,422 --> 00:17:35,861
Speaker 3: We will absolutely find things. They're not going to be

352
00:17:35,901 --> 00:17:38,101
Speaker 3: relevant or helpful. They're not going to be things that

353
00:17:38,141 --> 00:17:41,821
Speaker 3: we can address. For example, if you were to scan

354
00:17:41,901 --> 00:17:45,861
Speaker 3: the brain of someone in their sixties or seventies, you

355
00:17:45,942 --> 00:17:49,461
Speaker 3: might find that there have been mini strokes. There's not

356
00:17:49,821 --> 00:17:52,821
Speaker 3: really anything you can do about that. And for every

357
00:17:52,901 --> 00:17:56,861
Speaker 3: test that you do, there is funding to cost money.

358
00:17:57,581 --> 00:18:01,181
Speaker 3: There is the psychological impact on the person who hears

359
00:18:01,222 --> 00:18:05,821
Speaker 3: the result. There's the age of diagnosis and people on

360
00:18:06,222 --> 00:18:09,381
Speaker 3: the fringes or with maybe not as severe symptoms getting

361
00:18:09,381 --> 00:18:13,621
Speaker 3: those diagnoses. There are people who really need resources and

362
00:18:13,782 --> 00:18:16,861
Speaker 3: help who are not being served. And to consider the

363
00:18:17,222 --> 00:18:20,262
Speaker 3: medical system as something that is finite, like there's a

364
00:18:20,302 --> 00:18:23,542
Speaker 3: cost to every test, every consultation. And I think that

365
00:18:23,542 --> 00:18:26,942
Speaker 3: that's important too, that we've got overdiagnosis. At the same

366
00:18:26,982 --> 00:18:29,421
Speaker 3: time as underdiagnosis, and that's what's complicated.

367
00:18:29,782 --> 00:18:33,901
Speaker 2: And also presumably there's a socioeconomic split in the people

368
00:18:33,901 --> 00:18:36,621
Speaker 2: who are walking into their doctors and saying I want

369
00:18:36,661 --> 00:18:38,502
Speaker 2: this test and this test and this test because a

370
00:18:38,621 --> 00:18:40,381
Speaker 2: they can afford them if they have to, but also

371
00:18:40,422 --> 00:18:42,262
Speaker 2: they've had the time and resources to go away and

372
00:18:42,262 --> 00:18:44,302
Speaker 2: do all their research and decide what's wrong with them.

373
00:18:44,621 --> 00:18:47,421
Speaker 1: I also think that we think that doctors are magicians

374
00:18:47,502 --> 00:18:50,981
Speaker 1: onlind readers, and they really aren't. So one thing that

375
00:18:51,022 --> 00:18:53,501
Speaker 1: I've realized being married to a doctor is that whenever

376
00:18:53,542 --> 00:18:56,262
Speaker 1: we go anywhere, someone will pull him aside and talk

377
00:18:56,262 --> 00:18:59,142
Speaker 1: about a rash or some kind of illness or ailment

378
00:18:59,222 --> 00:19:02,141
Speaker 1: they have and want his answer for what's wrong. And

379
00:19:02,182 --> 00:19:04,902
Speaker 1: what he typically says is I don't want to engage

380
00:19:04,942 --> 00:19:07,261
Speaker 1: with you on this right now, A, because rashes are

381
00:19:07,262 --> 00:19:09,941
Speaker 1: grows and we're eating dinner. But be go owing to

382
00:19:09,982 --> 00:19:13,222
Speaker 1: the doctor is a data point for doctors. So if

383
00:19:13,262 --> 00:19:15,061
Speaker 1: you go to the doctor, you are saying, this rash

384
00:19:15,182 --> 00:19:17,982
Speaker 1: or this ailment has become so intrusive into my life

385
00:19:17,982 --> 00:19:19,781
Speaker 1: that I need to do something about it. I need

386
00:19:19,821 --> 00:19:22,302
Speaker 1: to take this inconvenient step of going to the doctor

387
00:19:22,302 --> 00:19:25,101
Speaker 1: and explaining it to the doctor and paying the doctor

388
00:19:25,141 --> 00:19:27,782
Speaker 1: and so on. If you just grab someone who you've

389
00:19:27,821 --> 00:19:30,142
Speaker 1: met on the street and say, hey, I've got this rash,

390
00:19:30,222 --> 00:19:32,621
Speaker 1: can you fix it for me? It's not interfering with

391
00:19:32,661 --> 00:19:35,021
Speaker 1: your life enough that you've gone to the doctor about it.

392
00:19:35,462 --> 00:19:38,902
Speaker 1: And I think that illustrates this idea that like they

393
00:19:38,942 --> 00:19:40,542
Speaker 1: think that he can just kind of look at them

394
00:19:40,542 --> 00:19:43,341
Speaker 1: and figure out what's wrong, but he needs the data

395
00:19:43,381 --> 00:19:45,942
Speaker 1: point of I came to the doctor about this, this

396
00:19:46,022 --> 00:19:48,981
Speaker 1: is really bothering me now, and that's in itself an

397
00:19:49,061 --> 00:19:52,262
Speaker 1: indication to him of the pain level, the discomfort level,

398
00:19:52,341 --> 00:19:54,662
Speaker 1: and then he can act from there, because it's very

399
00:19:54,661 --> 00:19:57,102
Speaker 1: difficult for them to tell how much pain we're in,

400
00:19:57,182 --> 00:19:59,181
Speaker 1: what sort of pain we're in. We're very bad at

401
00:19:59,661 --> 00:20:01,941
Speaker 1: language to communicate that. We don't have a lot of

402
00:20:01,982 --> 00:20:04,661
Speaker 1: words to describe pain, and I think that's part of

403
00:20:04,702 --> 00:20:05,662
Speaker 1: the problem as well.

404
00:20:05,901 --> 00:20:08,581
Speaker 2: The bit of this thesis that I find a bit

405
00:20:08,661 --> 00:20:12,061
Speaker 2: tricky though, is there's an idea out there that because

406
00:20:12,101 --> 00:20:15,381
Speaker 2: people who have particular conditions can find support online for

407
00:20:15,422 --> 00:20:18,061
Speaker 2: those conditions. So if you're a woman who's been living

408
00:20:18,101 --> 00:20:20,942
Speaker 2: with a lot of unexplained symptoms and you suspect you've

409
00:20:20,942 --> 00:20:23,701
Speaker 2: got some kind of chronic condition, but the doctors keep

410
00:20:23,782 --> 00:20:27,341
Speaker 2: dismissing you. When you find a community of other women

411
00:20:27,661 --> 00:20:32,222
Speaker 2: online who are living with that too, it's incredibly reaffirming,

412
00:20:32,341 --> 00:20:35,141
Speaker 2: and I would argue in a very good way, certain

413
00:20:35,182 --> 00:20:38,782
Speaker 2: medical institutions have been dismissing women as hysterical for a

414
00:20:38,821 --> 00:20:41,461
Speaker 2: long time, right, And I think that there is an

415
00:20:41,581 --> 00:20:45,421
Speaker 2: enormous amount of support and help to be found in

416
00:20:45,462 --> 00:20:48,022
Speaker 2: those communities online for people who are living with all

417
00:20:48,141 --> 00:20:50,902
Speaker 2: kinds of things that may be a difficult to express

418
00:20:50,901 --> 00:20:53,781
Speaker 2: in the mainstream, and people are trying different treatments, and

419
00:20:53,821 --> 00:20:56,662
Speaker 2: that can be consuming and be part of your identity.

420
00:20:57,141 --> 00:21:01,542
Speaker 2: But the real positive side of that is that you

421
00:21:01,702 --> 00:21:04,382
Speaker 2: realize that you're not to the point before we made

422
00:21:04,381 --> 00:21:08,782
Speaker 2: about the prejudices we have about psychosomatic illnesses is you

423
00:21:08,901 --> 00:21:12,302
Speaker 2: realize that you are not alone, and that is something

424
00:21:12,302 --> 00:21:15,861
Speaker 2: that didn't used to happen. And so when O'Sullivan is

425
00:21:15,942 --> 00:21:18,662
Speaker 2: kind of saying, I don't think that all this focus

426
00:21:18,702 --> 00:21:22,862
Speaker 2: on non debilitating health conditions is necessarily making us weller,

427
00:21:23,621 --> 00:21:25,941
Speaker 2: I find that interesting. I don't know how you measure that,

428
00:21:26,101 --> 00:21:29,821
Speaker 2: because aren't those people who are finding solace online with

429
00:21:29,942 --> 00:21:32,262
Speaker 2: other people who have their symptoms in a better place

430
00:21:32,302 --> 00:21:33,101
Speaker 2: than they were before.

431
00:21:33,381 --> 00:21:35,781
Speaker 1: And also, we've all seen that look of relief on

432
00:21:35,861 --> 00:21:38,542
Speaker 1: someone's face when they do get an answer for why

433
00:21:38,581 --> 00:21:41,061
Speaker 1: they've been feeling a particular way or why they feel

434
00:21:41,101 --> 00:21:43,942
Speaker 1: like their brain has been letting them down, and we

435
00:21:44,022 --> 00:21:45,861
Speaker 1: know that that relief is real.

436
00:21:47,182 --> 00:21:49,661
Speaker 2: Out louders in a minute. Both Amelia and I have

437
00:21:49,742 --> 00:21:52,262
Speaker 2: read juicy memoirs and we want to recommend them.

438
00:21:52,141 --> 00:21:52,462
Speaker 1: To you.

439
00:21:56,101 --> 00:21:56,701
Speaker 3: Out loud as.

440
00:21:56,782 --> 00:21:58,982
Speaker 2: We've got a listener dilemma for you, and we need

441
00:21:59,022 --> 00:22:02,061
Speaker 2: your collective wisdom to help us and our partners ui

442
00:22:02,302 --> 00:22:05,461
Speaker 2: solve it. So here's the problem. My close not me,

443
00:22:05,702 --> 00:22:08,621
Speaker 2: not me, This would never be mere. My close group

444
00:22:08,661 --> 00:22:11,661
Speaker 2: of girlfriends have been getting together for casual dinners for years.

445
00:22:11,742 --> 00:22:15,702
Speaker 2: We typically rotate houses and everybody brings something to share, appetizers,

446
00:22:15,702 --> 00:22:20,542
Speaker 2: side seller's, deserts, etc. Recently, I accidentally discovered something that's

447
00:22:20,621 --> 00:22:23,502
Speaker 2: left me completely mortified. Through a mix up that's a

448
00:22:23,542 --> 00:22:25,982
Speaker 2: bit complicated. I found out that my friends have been

449
00:22:26,022 --> 00:22:29,782
Speaker 2: deliberately trying to prevent me from bringing home cooked food

450
00:22:29,782 --> 00:22:32,861
Speaker 2: to our gatherings. Okay, maybe it is me. Apparently they

451
00:22:32,901 --> 00:22:35,782
Speaker 2: think I'm a terrible cook. But have been too nice

452
00:22:35,821 --> 00:22:39,181
Speaker 2: to tell me. For years, They've been strategically suggesting I

453
00:22:39,262 --> 00:22:43,581
Speaker 2: bring drinks or store bought items, while privately joking about

454
00:22:43,581 --> 00:22:46,742
Speaker 2: the disasters I've served them in the past. All this time,

455
00:22:46,782 --> 00:22:49,621
Speaker 2: I've been happily cooking for these gatherings, completely unaware that

456
00:22:49,621 --> 00:22:53,542
Speaker 2: everyone was dreading my contributions. Our next get together is

457
00:22:53,542 --> 00:22:57,381
Speaker 2: happening next weekend. Should I confront my friends about what

458
00:22:57,462 --> 00:23:00,782
Speaker 2: I've discovered or pretend I never found out? The question

459
00:23:00,982 --> 00:23:04,102
Speaker 2: is Amelia and Jesse, what do you do next?

460
00:23:04,621 --> 00:23:06,901
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Okay, I'm going to take this on

461
00:23:06,982 --> 00:23:09,861
Speaker 3: as how what I would do next? Right, I wouldn't

462
00:23:09,861 --> 00:23:12,141
Speaker 3: be upset that they think I'm a bad cook, upset

463
00:23:12,182 --> 00:23:14,861
Speaker 3: that they weren't honest with me. I don't like feeling tricks,

464
00:23:14,942 --> 00:23:15,542
Speaker 3: and I don't.

465
00:23:15,422 --> 00:23:17,982
Speaker 1: Think that they were laughing about her behind her bad Yeah.

466
00:23:18,101 --> 00:23:20,702
Speaker 3: I don't like that. I just think we can all

467
00:23:20,742 --> 00:23:22,942
Speaker 3: have a laugh that I'm a bad cook. So if

468
00:23:22,942 --> 00:23:26,421
Speaker 3: we're gonna talk about how I shouldn't bring my home cooking,

469
00:23:26,422 --> 00:23:28,942
Speaker 3: but I'll bring a bottle of wine, ha ha, funny

470
00:23:29,061 --> 00:23:32,421
Speaker 3: love this, but I've got to feel included. I don't

471
00:23:32,621 --> 00:23:34,421
Speaker 3: like the fact she was left out, Amelia, what do

472
00:23:34,462 --> 00:23:34,782
Speaker 3: you think?

473
00:23:34,901 --> 00:23:38,381
Speaker 1: Oh, you're so right, Jessie. I think that is the

474
00:23:38,381 --> 00:23:41,101
Speaker 1: worst part of it. The sense of a conspiracy, the

475
00:23:41,101 --> 00:23:45,462
Speaker 1: group chat that's happening outside of the group chat. That's

476
00:23:45,542 --> 00:23:48,701
Speaker 1: really the heart of this. And I really want to know.

477
00:23:48,742 --> 00:23:50,782
Speaker 1: I know she said it's complicated, but I really want

478
00:23:50,821 --> 00:23:52,981
Speaker 1: to know how she found out. Look, I think she

479
00:23:53,141 --> 00:23:55,621
Speaker 1: needs to take it to them and say my feelings

480
00:23:55,661 --> 00:23:57,661
Speaker 1: a hurt. I think in general, if you've got a

481
00:23:57,661 --> 00:24:00,262
Speaker 1: close group of friends and your feelings are hurt, life

482
00:24:00,341 --> 00:24:02,181
Speaker 1: is way too short not to tell your friends that

483
00:24:02,222 --> 00:24:04,502
Speaker 1: your feelings are hurt and then talk it through.

484
00:24:04,702 --> 00:24:07,662
Speaker 2: What I would do next is makes something really disgusting,

485
00:24:08,381 --> 00:24:11,422
Speaker 2: Take it proudly to the dinner, serve it to all

486
00:24:11,502 --> 00:24:15,222
Speaker 2: of them, and insist that they all have a bite.

487
00:24:15,982 --> 00:24:18,342
Speaker 3: Out loud as what would you do? Please share your

488
00:24:18,381 --> 00:24:21,381
Speaker 3: thoughts in the mummea out loud Facebook group, and please

489
00:24:21,422 --> 00:24:23,941
Speaker 3: share any dilemmas that you want our help with, because

490
00:24:24,022 --> 00:24:24,902
Speaker 3: we love to help.

491
00:24:26,262 --> 00:24:30,101
Speaker 2: Vibes ideas Atosphere stopping casual, stopping fun.

492
00:24:30,661 --> 00:24:32,182
Speaker 3: This is my best recommendation.

493
00:24:33,141 --> 00:24:35,942
Speaker 1: It's Friday and it's been a week, so we want

494
00:24:35,982 --> 00:24:38,462
Speaker 1: to help you set up your weekend with our very

495
00:24:38,581 --> 00:24:39,862
Speaker 1: best recommendations.

496
00:24:39,942 --> 00:24:43,461
Speaker 3: Jesse, I have a strange recco in that it's not

497
00:24:43,982 --> 00:24:47,421
Speaker 3: seasonally appropriate. But I'm going away over Easter and I

498
00:24:47,422 --> 00:24:49,581
Speaker 3: was packing my suitcase and I came across one of

499
00:24:49,661 --> 00:24:51,702
Speaker 3: my favorite items that I own.

500
00:24:51,861 --> 00:24:54,222
Speaker 1: Do you pack your suitcase stays ahead of time?

501
00:24:54,502 --> 00:24:55,542
Speaker 2: I do? Even is shit.

502
00:24:55,742 --> 00:24:56,742
Speaker 1: You're a lazy girl.

503
00:24:56,861 --> 00:24:59,381
Speaker 3: I know I'm a lazy girl, but I can't. My

504
00:24:59,581 --> 00:25:02,622
Speaker 3: brain can't get around all the things that I need.

505
00:25:02,661 --> 00:25:03,742
Speaker 3: I've got like a so I have to do a

506
00:25:03,742 --> 00:25:06,942
Speaker 3: spreadsheet every time I go away because I can't. Yeah,

507
00:25:06,982 --> 00:25:08,461
Speaker 3: I do a spreadsheet and then I put it in

508
00:25:08,462 --> 00:25:12,502
Speaker 3: green once. This even pre lunar, No Slena has now

509
00:25:12,542 --> 00:25:15,061
Speaker 3: that there's so much. This is a month the steaks

510
00:25:15,101 --> 00:25:17,422
Speaker 3: are higher. So I've spoken on the show about getting

511
00:25:17,422 --> 00:25:20,022
Speaker 3: a few skin cancers chopped out recently, and I've entered

512
00:25:20,022 --> 00:25:20,942
Speaker 3: my rashie era.

513
00:25:21,141 --> 00:25:22,022
Speaker 2: Oh love a rush.

514
00:25:22,302 --> 00:25:24,102
Speaker 3: The thing about a rashie is that I don't want

515
00:25:24,141 --> 00:25:26,702
Speaker 3: to be a three year old at a public pool, right.

516
00:25:27,182 --> 00:25:30,141
Speaker 3: I want to be Kate Bosworth in Blue Crash.

517
00:25:30,422 --> 00:25:32,061
Speaker 1: Can we remember that? Now? That reference?

518
00:25:32,141 --> 00:25:35,221
Speaker 3: Jersey, I knew you would. I want to look like

519
00:25:35,422 --> 00:25:40,061
Speaker 3: I enter Surfing Championships. Yes, so I have found this

520
00:25:40,182 --> 00:25:43,902
Speaker 3: rashi and it is called Avali the brand, and it

521
00:25:43,942 --> 00:25:46,581
Speaker 3: is like a cropped rashi, so it stops just above

522
00:25:46,661 --> 00:25:51,941
Speaker 3: your belly button, long sleeved, great neckline. It since's in

523
00:25:51,982 --> 00:25:53,942
Speaker 3: at the waist a little bit, so you've still got

524
00:25:53,982 --> 00:25:56,982
Speaker 3: shape rather than looking like the three year old in

525
00:25:57,022 --> 00:26:00,421
Speaker 3: a nappy. It's not cheap. It's eighty five dollars, but

526
00:26:01,422 --> 00:26:04,621
Speaker 3: it is made from this special material. It's made from

527
00:26:04,702 --> 00:26:08,182
Speaker 3: pre and post consumer waste that would otherwise be polluted,

528
00:26:08,262 --> 00:26:12,621
Speaker 3: so it's sustainable c which I absolutely love, and the

529
00:26:12,702 --> 00:26:15,702
Speaker 3: quality is ridiculous. I will have it forever. And it's

530
00:26:15,742 --> 00:26:17,542
Speaker 3: also I was thinking it would be really good if

531
00:26:17,542 --> 00:26:19,581
Speaker 3: you're pregnant because it kind of just ends above your

532
00:26:19,581 --> 00:26:22,341
Speaker 3: little bump. You can wear a full piece underneath or whatever.

533
00:26:22,821 --> 00:26:24,381
Speaker 3: Always have it on. Every time I wear it, I

534
00:26:24,381 --> 00:26:25,022
Speaker 3: get a compliment.

535
00:26:25,101 --> 00:26:27,141
Speaker 2: You know, how are you just saying about making rashi

536
00:26:27,222 --> 00:26:29,141
Speaker 2: is a bit sexy or a bit nice? Is that

537
00:26:29,222 --> 00:26:31,941
Speaker 2: I've got rashi? I think it's in peace. You know

538
00:26:31,982 --> 00:26:34,262
Speaker 2: that brand. Yeah, it's got a full zip and I

539
00:26:34,302 --> 00:26:38,061
Speaker 2: always wear it like a zip just for a little

540
00:26:38,061 --> 00:26:38,502
Speaker 2: bit of you know.

541
00:26:39,302 --> 00:26:41,302
Speaker 4: And my friend when I used to go to the

542
00:26:41,302 --> 00:26:43,101
Speaker 4: beach with the other time, she'd always come up to

543
00:26:43,141 --> 00:26:45,901
Speaker 4: me and just do this bit back up like it

544
00:26:46,022 --> 00:26:46,782
Speaker 4: was a mistake.

545
00:26:46,942 --> 00:26:49,262
Speaker 3: You get some bad I'm trying to be hot.

546
00:26:49,661 --> 00:26:52,142
Speaker 2: It's clearly not working. She'd just be like, hey, I dull,

547
00:26:52,222 --> 00:26:53,661
Speaker 2: I think you've come a bit undone.

548
00:26:54,222 --> 00:26:55,821
Speaker 1: Do you know what we have to do is change

549
00:26:55,821 --> 00:26:59,901
Speaker 1: the name rashi if it's going to be sexy.

550
00:26:58,702 --> 00:27:01,821
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, your spot on what do they call it?

551
00:27:01,861 --> 00:27:04,302
Speaker 3: They call it the green MIDI rashy top. I think

552
00:27:04,302 --> 00:27:06,861
Speaker 3: the word rashi, I think we can sexify that.

553
00:27:06,901 --> 00:27:09,302
Speaker 2: It's very Australian that, yeah, we don't really call them

554
00:27:09,341 --> 00:27:11,782
Speaker 2: thatwhere else. I'm going to get in trouble because I

555
00:27:11,821 --> 00:27:14,141
Speaker 2: keep recommending audiobooks and I'm listening to another one. It's

556
00:27:14,141 --> 00:27:16,262
Speaker 2: because I drive all the time, right, because I drive

557
00:27:16,302 --> 00:27:19,662
Speaker 2: a lot. Audiobooks are my friend. And I am reading

558
00:27:19,942 --> 00:27:22,821
Speaker 2: listening to a book at the minute, a memoir by

559
00:27:22,942 --> 00:27:25,061
Speaker 2: Ioni Sky. Do you know who Ione Sky is?

560
00:27:25,782 --> 00:27:25,861
Speaker 1: So?

561
00:27:25,982 --> 00:27:28,782
Speaker 2: Ione Sky was an IT girl and nineties it girl

562
00:27:28,821 --> 00:27:32,141
Speaker 2: in a big way, late eighties early nineties it girl.

563
00:27:32,542 --> 00:27:35,981
Speaker 2: She was the coolest of the California girl. She is

564
00:27:36,061 --> 00:27:38,701
Speaker 2: the daughter not that he had anything to do with

565
00:27:38,702 --> 00:27:40,302
Speaker 2: her when she was young of Donovan Leitch, who is

566
00:27:40,302 --> 00:27:43,141
Speaker 2: a big sixties star. Her mom was like a real

567
00:27:43,782 --> 00:27:47,342
Speaker 2: it girl who'd been involved with all these different rock stars. Anyway,

568
00:27:47,422 --> 00:27:50,142
Speaker 2: So Ione Sky became an actress and she was in

569
00:27:50,182 --> 00:27:52,861
Speaker 2: Say Anything with John Cusack and these are all movies

570
00:27:52,861 --> 00:27:54,582
Speaker 2: before your Time and the Rachel.

571
00:27:54,302 --> 00:27:57,101
Speaker 1: Papers holding up yeah, the famous one was holding.

572
00:27:56,942 --> 00:27:59,821
Speaker 2: Up the tape deck. She lived with Anthony Keats from

573
00:27:59,861 --> 00:28:02,581
Speaker 2: the Red Hot Chili Peppers when she was sixteen. Right

574
00:28:03,101 --> 00:28:06,022
Speaker 2: then she marries ad Rock from the Beastie Boys. There's

575
00:28:06,061 --> 00:28:08,262
Speaker 2: a very famous gen X line who he's like me

576
00:28:08,341 --> 00:28:11,181
Speaker 2: and IONI goes together like cheese and macaroni. How do

577
00:28:11,222 --> 00:28:11,741
Speaker 2: you not know this?

578
00:28:12,022 --> 00:28:14,221
Speaker 3: I only know the Anthony ketis anyway.

579
00:28:14,262 --> 00:28:17,341
Speaker 2: And then nowadays she lives in Australia, is married to

580
00:28:17,381 --> 00:28:19,861
Speaker 2: Ben Lee. They have children, like there's a hot sheet.

581
00:28:20,022 --> 00:28:22,662
Speaker 2: This woman has lived a life, right and I don't know.

582
00:28:22,581 --> 00:28:25,502
Speaker 3: That ben Lee data clar day, Yes, I know how

583
00:28:25,542 --> 00:28:26,382
Speaker 3: many different?

584
00:28:27,182 --> 00:28:31,902
Speaker 2: How many? It's very exciting. Anyway, I'm interviewing Ione soon

585
00:28:31,982 --> 00:28:34,782
Speaker 2: for mid and so I'm listening to her audio book

586
00:28:34,821 --> 00:28:37,262
Speaker 2: and it's a memoir. It's called Say Everything, Play on

587
00:28:37,302 --> 00:28:41,302
Speaker 2: Say any Thing, And it is so good because she

588
00:28:41,502 --> 00:28:44,142
Speaker 2: is just putting it all out there and it's got

589
00:28:44,182 --> 00:28:46,262
Speaker 2: all the juice in there about the famous boyfriends and stuff,

590
00:28:46,262 --> 00:28:48,542
Speaker 2: but also a lot more. And the other thing that

591
00:28:48,661 --> 00:28:52,542
Speaker 2: is so interesting about it, particularly the early years, is

592
00:28:52,582 --> 00:28:54,701
Speaker 2: you know, we've talked a few times about how maybe

593
00:28:54,702 --> 00:28:58,342
Speaker 2: we've extended childhood and she was coming of age in

594
00:28:58,422 --> 00:29:02,102
Speaker 2: Hollywood when like Drew Barrymore was out at nightclubs doing

595
00:29:02,142 --> 00:29:03,422
Speaker 2: coke when she was like thirteen.

596
00:29:03,582 --> 00:29:05,502
Speaker 1: Did you read her memoir back in the day.

597
00:29:05,542 --> 00:29:07,542
Speaker 2: I haven't, but I so should have done. Now I'm

598
00:29:07,542 --> 00:29:10,782
Speaker 2: on a memoir jack through the through which we parent

599
00:29:10,862 --> 00:29:13,782
Speaker 2: now or see teenagers Now you're constantly just going, how

600
00:29:13,782 --> 00:29:15,542
Speaker 2: are you doing that when you were this age? This

601
00:29:15,661 --> 00:29:18,302
Speaker 2: age she was living in la with this in this

602
00:29:18,382 --> 00:29:21,342
Speaker 2: bohemian world, and then she has no problem with the

603
00:29:21,342 --> 00:29:23,421
Speaker 2: fact that all her boyfriends are eight years older than her. Like,

604
00:29:23,462 --> 00:29:26,262
Speaker 2: it's just so interesting. And then she's such a smart

605
00:29:26,302 --> 00:29:29,502
Speaker 2: woman and a beautiful writer. And anyway, I am loving it.

606
00:29:29,502 --> 00:29:32,461
Speaker 2: It's called Say Everything by Ione Sky.

607
00:29:32,582 --> 00:29:35,902
Speaker 1: Is she mad at her parents for sort of letting

608
00:29:35,982 --> 00:29:39,542
Speaker 1: her run a mark or does she see that as cool?

609
00:29:39,942 --> 00:29:42,902
Speaker 2: It's neither of those things, just tells it how it is.

610
00:29:42,942 --> 00:29:46,302
Speaker 2: And then obviously later in life, when she's, you know,

611
00:29:46,462 --> 00:29:48,342
Speaker 2: like all of us, working out her issues and she

612
00:29:48,342 --> 00:29:50,221
Speaker 2: goes through lots of different she becomes a Buddhist and

613
00:29:50,222 --> 00:29:52,222
Speaker 2: she's this and she's that, and she's a very interesting person.

614
00:29:52,661 --> 00:29:54,622
Speaker 2: You know, that's all part of who she was. But

615
00:29:54,661 --> 00:29:57,822
Speaker 2: it's not like a raging takedown of that. It's just

616
00:29:57,862 --> 00:29:59,462
Speaker 2: a kind of this is how it was. And also

617
00:30:00,022 --> 00:30:02,622
Speaker 2: I love memoirs when it's kind of written as if

618
00:30:02,661 --> 00:30:05,902
Speaker 2: you're in the moment. So she's, you know, she's talking

619
00:30:05,942 --> 00:30:07,981
Speaker 2: about what kind of figure her mother was and the

620
00:30:08,022 --> 00:30:10,941
Speaker 2: different step dads and this and that, but not with

621
00:30:11,422 --> 00:30:14,902
Speaker 2: an adult like judgment on it. It's just really good

622
00:30:14,942 --> 00:30:17,582
Speaker 2: and I'm loving it. And it's also juicy, very juicy.

623
00:30:17,782 --> 00:30:20,421
Speaker 1: Oh that sounds so good. I love it. Girls of

624
00:30:20,462 --> 00:30:23,142
Speaker 1: all varieties. So I will look up that book. I

625
00:30:23,182 --> 00:30:23,982
Speaker 1: have a memoir too.

626
00:30:24,661 --> 00:30:26,782
Speaker 2: He reads this one as well, Amelia.

627
00:30:27,022 --> 00:30:30,262
Speaker 1: Yes, his name is Great and Carter, and the book

628
00:30:30,302 --> 00:30:33,902
Speaker 1: is called When the Going Was Good Great and Carter, Holly,

629
00:30:34,022 --> 00:30:37,062
Speaker 1: I know you know who he is. I Jesse Nothing Okay,

630
00:30:37,182 --> 00:30:40,382
Speaker 1: editor of Vanity Fair during its golden era, so he

631
00:30:40,502 --> 00:30:43,701
Speaker 1: was the editor of that magazine for about twenty five years.

632
00:30:44,102 --> 00:30:46,741
Speaker 1: He quit in twenty seventeen because Anna Winter cut his

633
00:30:46,782 --> 00:30:50,782
Speaker 1: budgets back too much, which relatable, and it is full

634
00:30:50,982 --> 00:30:54,701
Speaker 1: of gossip. So Vanity Fair was like the magazine to

635
00:30:54,782 --> 00:30:56,982
Speaker 1: read if you wanted to know about Hollywood, if you

636
00:30:57,022 --> 00:30:59,782
Speaker 1: wanted to know about fame and how it worked in

637
00:30:59,782 --> 00:31:02,902
Speaker 1: the nineties and the two thousands. So, for instance, he

638
00:31:02,982 --> 00:31:06,661
Speaker 1: threw the dinner where Princess Diana wore her famous revenge dress,

639
00:31:06,742 --> 00:31:08,622
Speaker 1: the black off the shoulder number that might be one

640
00:31:08,661 --> 00:31:11,862
Speaker 1: of the most famous dresses of all time. He was

641
00:31:11,902 --> 00:31:14,222
Speaker 1: the first person to make fun of Donald Trump back

642
00:31:14,262 --> 00:31:16,822
Speaker 1: in the eighties when he was a failed businessman in

643
00:31:16,862 --> 00:31:19,382
Speaker 1: New York. And he tells this amazing anecdote, which is

644
00:31:19,702 --> 00:31:23,382
Speaker 1: he was running a kind of upstart, prank filled magazine

645
00:31:23,382 --> 00:31:26,421
Speaker 1: at the time called Spy, and they decided to send

646
00:31:26,942 --> 00:31:31,382
Speaker 1: checks with very small denominations to New York's richest people and.

647
00:31:31,342 --> 00:31:32,742
Speaker 3: See if they would cash the check.

648
00:31:33,422 --> 00:31:37,102
Speaker 1: So they started off with checks for one dollar and

649
00:31:37,182 --> 00:31:40,022
Speaker 1: eleven cents and they sent them out to about twenty

650
00:31:40,262 --> 00:31:42,822
Speaker 1: millionaires and billionaires around New York City. And of course

651
00:31:42,822 --> 00:31:45,102
Speaker 1: with checks you got to sign them. For those of

652
00:31:45,182 --> 00:31:47,542
Speaker 1: us who maybe have never cashed a check, you have

653
00:31:47,622 --> 00:31:49,902
Speaker 1: to sign the back of it yourself, and then you

654
00:31:50,022 --> 00:31:51,502
Speaker 1: have to take it to the bank to get the

655
00:31:51,542 --> 00:31:55,262
Speaker 1: money deposited. And of those twenty millionaires and billionaires, about

656
00:31:55,302 --> 00:31:57,461
Speaker 1: half of them cashed the check for a dollar and

657
00:31:57,502 --> 00:32:01,502
Speaker 1: eleven cents. Then they decided, okay, second round. Everyone who

658
00:32:01,542 --> 00:32:03,862
Speaker 1: cashed that first check got sent a check for sixty

659
00:32:03,902 --> 00:32:08,382
Speaker 1: four cents, and thirteen people, including Rupert Murdoch, banked the checks.

660
00:32:09,782 --> 00:32:14,582
Speaker 1: Check was for thirteen cents, and one person cash the

661
00:32:14,661 --> 00:32:16,942
Speaker 1: check and it was Donald Trump.

662
00:32:17,302 --> 00:32:18,982
Speaker 2: That's a great story.

663
00:32:19,782 --> 00:32:23,382
Speaker 1: I mean, that's journalism, right, yeah, Watergate. So he was

664
00:32:23,422 --> 00:32:25,582
Speaker 1: also the first person to ever point out that Donald

665
00:32:25,622 --> 00:32:27,902
Speaker 1: Trump's fingers are really short. He came up with the

666
00:32:27,942 --> 00:32:32,062
Speaker 1: phrase short fingered vulgarian. Oh wow, but this is it's

667
00:32:32,062 --> 00:32:34,502
Speaker 1: not a political book, like despite the I mean, Donald

668
00:32:34,542 --> 00:32:37,062
Speaker 1: Trump wasn't a political figure at the time. He mentions

669
00:32:37,062 --> 00:32:39,502
Speaker 1: that Adrian Brody tried to steal a lamp from the

670
00:32:39,582 --> 00:32:42,822
Speaker 1: Vanity Fair Oscars party once because they had a very

671
00:32:42,862 --> 00:32:46,501
Speaker 1: famous Oscars party every year. And Anna Wintall loves to

672
00:32:46,622 --> 00:32:48,862
Speaker 1: order a rare steak when she goes out and she

673
00:32:48,942 --> 00:32:52,702
Speaker 1: always calls for the bill before everyone else is finished eating.

674
00:32:53,782 --> 00:32:55,941
Speaker 3: Why does that tell me so much? It just tells

675
00:32:55,942 --> 00:32:57,462
Speaker 3: me everything I need so good.

676
00:32:57,702 --> 00:32:59,742
Speaker 1: I wish I could be someone who orders a rare steak.

677
00:32:59,782 --> 00:33:02,422
Speaker 1: I order my steak medium well. But he's very good

678
00:33:02,422 --> 00:33:05,622
Speaker 1: at throwing dinner party. So there's also some service journalism

679
00:33:05,622 --> 00:33:08,421
Speaker 1: in here. News you can use. One tidbit I loved

680
00:33:08,622 --> 00:33:10,622
Speaker 1: is that he says that in America, when you throw

681
00:33:10,661 --> 00:33:14,342
Speaker 1: a dinner party, you put husbands and wives or married

682
00:33:14,342 --> 00:33:18,902
Speaker 1: partners next to each other. In the UK, in Britain, Holly,

683
00:33:18,942 --> 00:33:21,782
Speaker 1: you'll need to confirm this for me. Apparently you put

684
00:33:21,822 --> 00:33:24,661
Speaker 1: the married people at the same table, but not seated

685
00:33:24,702 --> 00:33:25,462
Speaker 1: next to each.

686
00:33:25,262 --> 00:33:27,302
Speaker 2: Other, definitely not seated next to each other.

687
00:33:27,942 --> 00:33:31,182
Speaker 1: And then in Europe you put them at completely different

688
00:33:31,262 --> 00:33:33,862
Speaker 1: tables because you know that the best thing about being

689
00:33:33,902 --> 00:33:36,102
Speaker 1: married is that when you leave the dinner you can

690
00:33:36,142 --> 00:33:38,902
Speaker 1: gossip about everyone at the dinner and it maximizes your

691
00:33:38,942 --> 00:33:41,102
Speaker 1: gossip potential. And I just loved that.

692
00:33:41,102 --> 00:33:41,782
Speaker 2: That's great.

693
00:33:41,982 --> 00:33:43,342
Speaker 3: I love that so much.

694
00:33:43,422 --> 00:33:45,142
Speaker 2: What's it called again, Amelia?

695
00:33:45,262 --> 00:33:47,102
Speaker 1: When the going was good?

696
00:33:48,022 --> 00:33:50,982
Speaker 3: After the break and a cold friend test photo shoots

697
00:33:51,022 --> 00:33:53,461
Speaker 3: and three trips to the cinema. It is our best

698
00:33:53,502 --> 00:33:54,542
Speaker 3: and Worst.

699
00:33:54,982 --> 00:33:58,742
Speaker 2: One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday

700
00:33:58,782 --> 00:34:02,862
Speaker 2: and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link

701
00:34:02,862 --> 00:34:04,622
Speaker 2: in the show notes to get us in your ears

702
00:34:04,902 --> 00:34:07,622
Speaker 2: five days a week. And a huge thank you to

703
00:34:07,822 --> 00:34:21,781
Speaker 2: all our current subscribers. It's time for Best and Worse.

704
00:34:21,942 --> 00:34:24,022
Speaker 2: It's the part of the show where we, you know,

705
00:34:24,142 --> 00:34:26,142
Speaker 2: dig a little bit into our personal lives and tell

706
00:34:26,142 --> 00:34:28,422
Speaker 2: you what's been going on. I'm going to start with you,

707
00:34:28,502 --> 00:34:29,261
Speaker 2: Jesse Stevens.

708
00:34:29,822 --> 00:34:33,622
Speaker 3: My worst is that Mia and I swapped cars for

709
00:34:33,661 --> 00:34:37,502
Speaker 3: a day because yeah, she needed my boot for something,

710
00:34:38,342 --> 00:34:41,142
Speaker 3: and I drove her carsh has an electric car. Didn't

711
00:34:41,181 --> 00:34:42,981
Speaker 3: really know how to drive it, pretended I did.

712
00:34:43,221 --> 00:34:45,301
Speaker 2: That's so green of her. I don't think.

713
00:34:45,422 --> 00:34:49,542
Speaker 3: You don't even turn it on, like it just knows anyway.

714
00:34:50,181 --> 00:34:52,542
Speaker 3: So I get into a car and I drive home.

715
00:34:53,142 --> 00:34:55,502
Speaker 3: And then a little bit later, I'm like, okay, we'll

716
00:34:55,502 --> 00:34:56,821
Speaker 3: go and swap it back and I get in the

717
00:34:56,862 --> 00:34:57,942
Speaker 3: car won't turn on.

718
00:34:58,342 --> 00:34:59,861
Speaker 2: What is that because you don't know how to?

719
00:35:00,261 --> 00:35:00,741
Speaker 3: I thought that.

720
00:35:01,342 --> 00:35:04,741
Speaker 2: I feel like looking for bunch presses randomly pushing shit

721
00:35:04,862 --> 00:35:06,341
Speaker 2: the window That's the.

722
00:35:06,342 --> 00:35:07,942
Speaker 3: Thing about a car that doesn't turn on is you

723
00:35:07,942 --> 00:35:10,022
Speaker 3: don't know when it's broken because you're like, it's not

724
00:35:10,062 --> 00:35:13,181
Speaker 3: an ignition thing. So then it starts, the brake lights

725
00:35:13,181 --> 00:35:16,181
Speaker 3: start going, starts coming up with these weird things on

726
00:35:16,221 --> 00:35:18,102
Speaker 3: the dashboard, and I was like, I'm sure this is

727
00:35:18,221 --> 00:35:20,181
Speaker 3: just a weird electric car thing. So I take a

728
00:35:20,261 --> 00:35:21,902
Speaker 3: video send it to me out and she's like, I

729
00:35:21,942 --> 00:35:23,982
Speaker 3: have simply never seen that before. And I was like,

730
00:35:24,062 --> 00:35:27,422
Speaker 3: oh no, I've broken the car. So anyway, that had

731
00:35:27,462 --> 00:35:31,901
Speaker 3: to get Toad that you had to get Maya's car Toe,

732
00:35:31,982 --> 00:35:35,422
Speaker 3: I had to get it Toad. They still don't know

733
00:35:35,422 --> 00:35:37,461
Speaker 3: what's wrong with it. I don't know what I did,

734
00:35:37,542 --> 00:35:38,062
Speaker 3: But what.

735
00:35:37,982 --> 00:35:41,862
Speaker 1: Did you say to it? Jesse mouth tape?

736
00:35:42,062 --> 00:35:45,462
Speaker 3: I know. I think that might be why me is

737
00:35:45,502 --> 00:35:47,062
Speaker 3: not here, because I don't think she doesn't a carp.

738
00:35:47,342 --> 00:35:48,622
Speaker 3: I don't know how she's getting anywhere.

739
00:35:48,661 --> 00:35:51,502
Speaker 2: She doesn't know how to get anywhere because I broke

740
00:35:51,582 --> 00:35:53,822
Speaker 2: her car. I'm stuck in my house now.

741
00:35:53,902 --> 00:35:55,741
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so we've just been doing the show without

742
00:35:55,741 --> 00:35:58,181
Speaker 3: her because she's stuck at home with no car. I

743
00:35:58,181 --> 00:36:01,502
Speaker 3: think she's mad at me anywhere. We'll ask her next week.

744
00:36:02,102 --> 00:36:05,222
Speaker 3: My best though, is also to do with Maya. We

745
00:36:05,382 --> 00:36:07,861
Speaker 3: did a photo shoot last week. Did you guys do

746
00:36:07,862 --> 00:36:09,142
Speaker 3: a photo shoot with hair and makeup?

747
00:36:09,622 --> 00:36:11,462
Speaker 2: Wasn't involved? Why wasn't I involved?

748
00:36:11,462 --> 00:36:11,661
Speaker 5: Well?

749
00:36:11,701 --> 00:36:14,582
Speaker 3: Well, well, because Meya and I are models, we always

750
00:36:14,622 --> 00:36:18,062
Speaker 3: say out yeah. So it was a promo thing for

751
00:36:18,102 --> 00:36:20,142
Speaker 3: a magazine that's going to come out in a few weeks.

752
00:36:20,142 --> 00:36:22,502
Speaker 3: But we got our hair and makeup done and we

753
00:36:22,582 --> 00:36:25,702
Speaker 3: got all like styled and dressed. Maya got like roused

754
00:36:25,701 --> 00:36:27,342
Speaker 3: on by a stylist because.

755
00:36:27,221 --> 00:36:29,862
Speaker 2: I'd love to see that because I've done lots of

756
00:36:29,862 --> 00:36:31,741
Speaker 2: phototooes in me and not at that level probably, But

757
00:36:32,142 --> 00:36:34,181
Speaker 2: she hates it. She doesn't like being told what to wear.

758
00:36:34,221 --> 00:36:36,022
Speaker 2: She doesn't like having her hair and makeup done. I

759
00:36:36,102 --> 00:36:37,622
Speaker 2: love having my hair and makeup done.

760
00:36:37,661 --> 00:36:40,502
Speaker 3: She would pick things and the stylist was like, absolutely not,

761
00:36:40,822 --> 00:36:42,982
Speaker 3: and I was like, I love this stylist.

762
00:36:43,022 --> 00:36:44,342
Speaker 2: Did she do what she was told?

763
00:36:44,382 --> 00:36:46,142
Speaker 3: She did what she was told and she ended up

764
00:36:46,142 --> 00:36:49,821
Speaker 3: looking fabulous. She did anyway. I loved this stylist. I

765
00:36:49,862 --> 00:36:50,502
Speaker 3: need her in my life.

766
00:36:50,542 --> 00:36:51,861
Speaker 2: But did you look amazing too?

767
00:36:52,022 --> 00:36:52,181
Speaker 4: Oh?

768
00:36:52,221 --> 00:36:55,502
Speaker 3: I loved what. I just walked in and just said,

769
00:36:55,542 --> 00:36:57,221
Speaker 3: put me in something, and I walked out and it

770
00:36:57,302 --> 00:36:58,221
Speaker 3: was fantastic.

771
00:36:58,261 --> 00:37:00,181
Speaker 1: And I admit that I saw a photo with that.

772
00:37:00,382 --> 00:37:02,582
Speaker 3: Oh to tell us, tell us what you think? Ah,

773
00:37:02,741 --> 00:37:04,662
Speaker 3: do you love it? I cate, I loved your skirt.

774
00:37:04,781 --> 00:37:06,622
Speaker 1: Can you just your skirt? Oh?

775
00:37:06,701 --> 00:37:08,902
Speaker 3: I wore this really cool. It was a skirt with

776
00:37:08,942 --> 00:37:11,301
Speaker 3: like a print on it. But the issue was that

777
00:37:11,382 --> 00:37:13,902
Speaker 3: I think I get nervous knees in photos, which I

778
00:37:13,902 --> 00:37:16,462
Speaker 3: didn't realize that was an issue I have. But the

779
00:37:16,462 --> 00:37:21,062
Speaker 3: photographer who's a very famous, like amazing photographer, taught us

780
00:37:21,062 --> 00:37:21,701
Speaker 3: how to look hot.

781
00:37:21,902 --> 00:37:22,582
Speaker 1: What do you do?

782
00:37:22,902 --> 00:37:25,821
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm so glad you asked. So you need to

783
00:37:25,942 --> 00:37:30,941
Speaker 3: lean forward from your ankles right. So apparently what we do,

784
00:37:31,382 --> 00:37:33,542
Speaker 3: and this is what I do, camera comes out, lean back,

785
00:37:33,582 --> 00:37:35,902
Speaker 3: loose my neck right, and I look horrible.

786
00:37:36,342 --> 00:37:38,381
Speaker 1: Why are we doing that? Why are we leaning back?

787
00:37:39,261 --> 00:37:41,902
Speaker 3: And I don't know. What we're meant to do is

788
00:37:42,062 --> 00:37:44,542
Speaker 3: your calves are meant to hurt, So you lean forward

789
00:37:44,582 --> 00:37:47,942
Speaker 3: through your calves, so you're looking towards the camera and

790
00:37:48,102 --> 00:37:52,181
Speaker 3: your chin's out, chins out, nose towards the camera. That's

791
00:37:52,181 --> 00:37:55,781
Speaker 3: what we're doing. Chin up the way like the bea

792
00:37:56,302 --> 00:37:57,502
Speaker 3: for everyone.

793
00:37:57,701 --> 00:38:00,542
Speaker 2: It's just about service journalism this is very important.

794
00:38:01,382 --> 00:38:04,062
Speaker 3: And he just kept saying, shake hat your knees, shake

795
00:38:04,102 --> 00:38:06,022
Speaker 3: hat your knees. And then I saw the fight days later,

796
00:38:06,062 --> 00:38:07,102
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, I did need to shake my

797
00:38:07,181 --> 00:38:09,422
Speaker 3: knees out. They look nervous. We learned how to be

798
00:38:10,181 --> 00:38:12,902
Speaker 3: and I can't wait for everyone to say the fighter.

799
00:38:13,302 --> 00:38:17,502
Speaker 2: This is really not good news for me, Amelia. What

800
00:38:17,582 --> 00:38:18,501
Speaker 2: was your worst of the week.

801
00:38:18,902 --> 00:38:21,741
Speaker 1: So you know how there are big ticket items that

802
00:38:21,781 --> 00:38:23,741
Speaker 1: you spend money on that you feel good about, So

803
00:38:23,822 --> 00:38:28,062
Speaker 1: I'd put buying flight tickets in there. I'd even put

804
00:38:28,142 --> 00:38:32,262
Speaker 1: buying a sofa in there. Things that you don't feel

805
00:38:32,261 --> 00:38:34,501
Speaker 1: good about spending a lot of money on dental work

806
00:38:34,542 --> 00:38:37,381
Speaker 1: of any kind, sorry dentists, but I resent it. I

807
00:38:37,422 --> 00:38:39,821
Speaker 1: resent every cent that I spend the dentist. And the

808
00:38:39,902 --> 00:38:44,542
Speaker 1: other thing that I would put in that category is mattresses. Now,

809
00:38:44,701 --> 00:38:46,661
Speaker 1: Big Mattress is always telling me you got to spend

810
00:38:46,701 --> 00:38:48,622
Speaker 1: half your life on a mattress. I know that, but

811
00:38:48,741 --> 00:38:51,661
Speaker 1: they're so expensive and I don't want to buy one.

812
00:38:52,422 --> 00:38:55,542
Speaker 1: As a result, I have had a mattress that I

813
00:38:55,582 --> 00:38:57,622
Speaker 1: think I got from a roommate of mine in two

814
00:38:57,661 --> 00:39:01,622
Speaker 1: thousand and six that she had purchased from my Kia. Yes, yes,

815
00:39:02,062 --> 00:39:05,262
Speaker 1: and I think it's probably bad for both my life

816
00:39:05,502 --> 00:39:09,142
Speaker 1: and my marriage to keep this mattress. And it's come

817
00:39:09,142 --> 00:39:10,582
Speaker 1: to the point were I need to my new ones.

818
00:39:10,701 --> 00:39:13,781
Speaker 1: So I know that everyone's buying mattresses online now, but

819
00:39:13,902 --> 00:39:16,341
Speaker 1: I went into a mattress shop because I'm kind of

820
00:39:16,382 --> 00:39:20,342
Speaker 1: old fashioned that way. I just got completely overwhelmed latex

821
00:39:20,462 --> 00:39:23,262
Speaker 1: versus memory foam. What price you want? You can pretty

822
00:39:23,302 --> 00:39:26,382
Speaker 1: much pick a mattress at literally any price point. Which

823
00:39:26,422 --> 00:39:29,661
Speaker 1: size mattress do you get? It's all very confusing. And

824
00:39:29,701 --> 00:39:32,062
Speaker 1: then I went on Reddit because that's my answer to everything,

825
00:39:32,102 --> 00:39:34,502
Speaker 1: and in fact, there is a whole Reddit board about mattresses.

826
00:39:34,542 --> 00:39:36,781
Speaker 1: But that's made me even more confused. Either if you

827
00:39:36,822 --> 00:39:38,661
Speaker 1: have strong thoughts or mattresses that I should know.

828
00:39:38,622 --> 00:39:41,582
Speaker 2: About, I feel very similar to you that I absolutely

829
00:39:41,661 --> 00:39:44,181
Speaker 2: hate buying them. And I hate to think this, but

830
00:39:44,382 --> 00:39:45,781
Speaker 2: I should admit this.

831
00:39:48,181 --> 00:39:49,302
Speaker 3: How old is mattress?

832
00:39:49,622 --> 00:39:52,741
Speaker 5: I think until recently we were sleeping on the mattress

833
00:39:52,781 --> 00:39:59,342
Speaker 5: that my water's broken, Maida, I think until very recently,

834
00:39:59,382 --> 00:40:01,341
Speaker 5: and every time you change the sheet, she's just.

835
00:40:01,261 --> 00:40:06,462
Speaker 2: Like, oh god, yeah, no, they're not fun. They're not

836
00:40:06,502 --> 00:40:08,701
Speaker 2: fun to buy and mattresses one of those things you

837
00:40:08,781 --> 00:40:10,462
Speaker 2: have to do. You go in and you look at

838
00:40:10,462 --> 00:40:13,542
Speaker 2: the absolute cheapest one. Yeah, if you've got a bit

839
00:40:13,582 --> 00:40:15,462
Speaker 2: more money in your pocket, you go, well, I'm not

840
00:40:15,462 --> 00:40:18,342
Speaker 2: going to get the absolute cheapest one, but I'm certainly

841
00:40:18,382 --> 00:40:20,022
Speaker 2: not going to get the most expensive one. So we

842
00:40:20,221 --> 00:40:21,341
Speaker 2: just move up a little bit.

843
00:40:21,382 --> 00:40:24,102
Speaker 3: It's on the wine list. You get the second cheapest one. Yeah,

844
00:40:24,102 --> 00:40:24,502
Speaker 3: that's right.

845
00:40:24,622 --> 00:40:27,821
Speaker 1: Yeah, I need the chardonnay of mattress position. So, my

846
00:40:27,982 --> 00:40:32,542
Speaker 1: best I have seen a movie at the cinema three times,

847
00:40:32,902 --> 00:40:35,702
Speaker 1: and I'm somehow not angry about it. Let me explain

848
00:40:35,781 --> 00:40:37,381
Speaker 1: what happened. Bridget Jones four.

849
00:40:38,102 --> 00:40:39,181
Speaker 3: I really liked it.

850
00:40:39,701 --> 00:40:42,142
Speaker 2: May I walked out of that movie. I quite enjoyed it.

851
00:40:42,181 --> 00:40:45,582
Speaker 2: But you have seen it three times at the movies.

852
00:40:45,902 --> 00:40:49,901
Speaker 1: Now here's why. So when the first Bridge Jones came out,

853
00:40:50,062 --> 00:40:52,942
Speaker 1: I think I overidentified with her a little bit much.

854
00:40:53,302 --> 00:40:56,022
Speaker 1: I think that everyone started to think that I was

855
00:40:56,062 --> 00:40:59,221
Speaker 1: Bridget Jones, which, looking back on it, you know, at

856
00:40:59,221 --> 00:41:01,301
Speaker 1: the time I was flattered. Now I understand that that

857
00:41:01,502 --> 00:41:05,862
Speaker 1: actually wasn't a compliment that everyone associated me with Bridget Jones.

858
00:41:05,902 --> 00:41:08,542
Speaker 1: So this movie is coming and people keep saying to me, oh,

859
00:41:08,622 --> 00:41:11,221
Speaker 1: let's go and see that. You love Bridget Jones twenty

860
00:41:11,302 --> 00:41:13,781
Speaker 1: years on and I'd say, yeah, yeah, gah. But then

861
00:41:13,982 --> 00:41:16,341
Speaker 1: I went to see it with one friend and then

862
00:41:16,502 --> 00:41:19,902
Speaker 1: another friend said, you went to see Bridget Jones without me,

863
00:41:20,142 --> 00:41:22,661
Speaker 1: and she was so hurt that I realized that to

864
00:41:22,902 --> 00:41:25,181
Speaker 1: mend our relationship, I actually would need to go and

865
00:41:25,181 --> 00:41:27,221
Speaker 1: see it again. So I went to see it with her,

866
00:41:27,622 --> 00:41:29,941
Speaker 1: and then my mother said to me, you went to

867
00:41:29,942 --> 00:41:32,022
Speaker 1: see it without it needs But then I went to

868
00:41:32,062 --> 00:41:35,022
Speaker 1: see it with her, And every time I've just had

869
00:41:35,022 --> 00:41:37,701
Speaker 1: to do it for relationship maintenance purposes. But I have

870
00:41:37,781 --> 00:41:40,102
Speaker 1: to say about this movie that this movie should not

871
00:41:40,181 --> 00:41:42,741
Speaker 1: have been good. It is Bridget Jones. Fat. No one

872
00:41:42,741 --> 00:41:45,062
Speaker 1: thought this was going to be good. Here's my pitch

873
00:41:45,102 --> 00:41:48,741
Speaker 1: for it. I find it an incredibly moving meditation on

874
00:41:48,982 --> 00:41:52,982
Speaker 1: the complications and heartbreaks of midlife. Have I sold you

875
00:41:53,022 --> 00:41:53,742
Speaker 1: on this already?

876
00:41:54,062 --> 00:41:56,382
Speaker 2: I think you're right. When we were watching it, we

877
00:41:56,462 --> 00:41:58,381
Speaker 2: went to see it, and may I did love it,

878
00:41:58,502 --> 00:42:00,702
Speaker 2: but she didn't give it enough of a chance because

879
00:42:00,701 --> 00:42:03,262
Speaker 2: it does start off with a lot of the usual tropes,

880
00:42:03,302 --> 00:42:05,742
Speaker 2: but then it actually gets really quite deep.

881
00:42:05,982 --> 00:42:09,062
Speaker 3: I cried, It's about life after death. Yeah, it's about

882
00:42:09,102 --> 00:42:09,542
Speaker 3: the stuff.

883
00:42:09,822 --> 00:42:13,582
Speaker 1: It's about Hugh Grant in it, and I'm sorry that

884
00:42:13,622 --> 00:42:16,902
Speaker 1: man is getting better with age. Three scenes and in

885
00:42:17,022 --> 00:42:19,381
Speaker 1: one of them he's in a hospital gown. No spoilers,

886
00:42:19,502 --> 00:42:21,462
Speaker 1: and he still steals the show.

887
00:42:21,902 --> 00:42:22,861
Speaker 3: Loved it, Loved it.

888
00:42:22,982 --> 00:42:28,622
Speaker 2: Side recommendation on that Hugh Grant on SmartLess Startless. I

889
00:42:28,622 --> 00:42:31,582
Speaker 2: don't always love SmartLess, but Hugh Grant's interview on SmartLess,

890
00:42:31,701 --> 00:42:34,821
Speaker 2: I was laughing so loudly I nearly crushed the car.

891
00:42:35,022 --> 00:42:38,262
Speaker 2: That wasn't good. My worst of the week is rodent

892
00:42:38,342 --> 00:42:41,781
Speaker 2: related in that you won't be surprised to hear that.

893
00:42:41,822 --> 00:42:43,781
Speaker 2: On my front porch in my house, I have a

894
00:42:43,822 --> 00:42:46,102
Speaker 2: big plastic box like the ones you get from Bunnings

895
00:42:46,142 --> 00:42:49,102
Speaker 2: that's full of garden stuff because you know, I'm a gardener,

896
00:42:49,181 --> 00:42:51,221
Speaker 2: as we know, and I go in there all the

897
00:42:51,221 --> 00:42:55,622
Speaker 2: time to get things like pots and shovels and whatever.

898
00:42:55,382 --> 00:42:55,982
Speaker 3: Right soil.

899
00:42:56,622 --> 00:42:58,901
Speaker 2: And I went in there the other day and I

900
00:42:58,982 --> 00:43:03,261
Speaker 2: saw this brown thing like moving really quickly, and I

901
00:43:03,261 --> 00:43:06,422
Speaker 2: thought it's either a mouse or a rat or a frog.

902
00:43:06,781 --> 00:43:08,902
Speaker 2: And I slammed the door lid of the box and

903
00:43:08,942 --> 00:43:12,622
Speaker 2: I ran into and I was like, because I'm not

904
00:43:12,661 --> 00:43:15,661
Speaker 2: a worse about. I don't mind snakes, I don't mind spiders,

905
00:43:15,701 --> 00:43:17,582
Speaker 2: I don't mind cockroaches, I don't mind any of that.

906
00:43:17,622 --> 00:43:19,862
Speaker 2: I'm the person who always gets the huntsmen down, you know,

907
00:43:19,902 --> 00:43:22,342
Speaker 2: when you've got the spider on the wall, I don't

908
00:43:22,382 --> 00:43:26,742
Speaker 2: even flinch. But I cannot stand rodents like I cannot

909
00:43:26,781 --> 00:43:28,902
Speaker 2: stand them. And I see them. I think they know

910
00:43:29,261 --> 00:43:31,822
Speaker 2: and they stalk me because when I'm in the city,

911
00:43:31,902 --> 00:43:34,821
Speaker 2: I see rats all the time. I see them all

912
00:43:34,862 --> 00:43:37,142
Speaker 2: the time, and I don't think everyone else does. I

913
00:43:37,142 --> 00:43:38,502
Speaker 2: think I manifest them.

914
00:43:38,862 --> 00:43:41,142
Speaker 3: They don't bother me half as much as a side.

915
00:43:41,142 --> 00:43:43,341
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I can't be them anyway. So there

916
00:43:43,382 --> 00:43:44,741
Speaker 2: was a mouse in my porch and I thought, I'm

917
00:43:44,741 --> 00:43:46,462
Speaker 2: we were going to have to move out of the house,

918
00:43:46,542 --> 00:43:48,142
Speaker 2: and like maybe never go back.

919
00:43:48,221 --> 00:43:48,902
Speaker 1: Got it down.

920
00:43:48,982 --> 00:43:51,822
Speaker 2: And then the problem was is Brent, of course had sympathy,

921
00:43:51,862 --> 00:43:54,422
Speaker 2: but other things to do with his life, because you know,

922
00:43:54,462 --> 00:43:57,221
Speaker 2: he doesn't live to serve, which is unfortunate. And so

923
00:43:57,342 --> 00:43:59,062
Speaker 2: he said, I'll get to that later. I'll go in

924
00:43:59,102 --> 00:44:01,341
Speaker 2: there later and I'll find the mouse. And I went

925
00:44:01,422 --> 00:44:02,982
Speaker 2: go in there now, and he went and looked, and

926
00:44:03,022 --> 00:44:05,461
Speaker 2: he said, yeah, definitely a mouse maybe more than one.

927
00:44:05,582 --> 00:44:07,301
Speaker 2: And then but I can't deal with it now, And

928
00:44:07,342 --> 00:44:09,982
Speaker 2: I was like, so then I had days where I

929
00:44:09,982 --> 00:44:11,622
Speaker 2: wanted to do all these things agune, but clearly I

930
00:44:11,622 --> 00:44:13,622
Speaker 2: couldn't open the box. I needed to go in and

931
00:44:13,622 --> 00:44:15,221
Speaker 2: get things out of it. I needed to put things in.

932
00:44:15,261 --> 00:44:18,781
Speaker 2: I couldn't. So there's just a big past anyway. That

933
00:44:18,862 --> 00:44:19,622
Speaker 2: was very stressful.

934
00:44:19,622 --> 00:44:21,822
Speaker 1: Wit, But is there no resolution to the story?

935
00:44:21,982 --> 00:44:24,262
Speaker 2: No, there is a resolution because then I went away

936
00:44:24,302 --> 00:44:25,901
Speaker 2: for a few days. I've been away for a few

937
00:44:25,942 --> 00:44:30,062
Speaker 2: days and Brent very proudly sent me a picture of

938
00:44:30,102 --> 00:44:33,381
Speaker 2: the big box up on its side, all cleared out,

939
00:44:33,422 --> 00:44:37,781
Speaker 2: and he did it and the composition. I didn't marry him,

940
00:44:38,062 --> 00:44:40,102
Speaker 2: but maybe I will if he can make the micek

941
00:44:40,102 --> 00:44:40,542
Speaker 2: go away.

942
00:44:40,661 --> 00:44:42,542
Speaker 3: But the question is where did it go?

943
00:44:42,862 --> 00:44:45,381
Speaker 2: That's my Roman empire now is where did the mice go?

944
00:44:46,142 --> 00:44:46,221
Speaker 1: Be?

945
00:44:46,741 --> 00:44:49,102
Speaker 3: Ask questions I can't keillar.

946
00:44:49,181 --> 00:44:52,102
Speaker 1: Oh, my college, have you ever considered watching rather tooy

947
00:44:52,261 --> 00:44:55,982
Speaker 1: just as a kind of immersion exercise? It's really cute?

948
00:44:56,022 --> 00:44:58,821
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I can't deal anyway. My best of

949
00:44:58,862 --> 00:45:01,861
Speaker 2: the week, though, is that the Nicole of my friendship group,

950
00:45:01,902 --> 00:45:03,661
Speaker 2: one of my great mates, had a big birthday at

951
00:45:03,661 --> 00:45:07,622
Speaker 2: the weekend of fiftieth. She always organizes all the birthdays

952
00:45:07,822 --> 00:45:09,781
Speaker 2: and the girl's trips and the nights out and all

953
00:45:09,781 --> 00:45:11,661
Speaker 2: those things, and all the rest of us are completely

954
00:45:11,701 --> 00:45:15,181
Speaker 2: flaky and crap. But she obviously couldn't organize her own

955
00:45:15,342 --> 00:45:18,262
Speaker 2: fiftieth birthday, so I had to do it. Poor Jesse

956
00:45:18,582 --> 00:45:20,782
Speaker 2: knows about this because she and Ruth and all everybody

957
00:45:20,862 --> 00:45:22,981
Speaker 2: have been living through me talking about the group chat

958
00:45:23,022 --> 00:45:25,462
Speaker 2: dramas the did she like her gift?

959
00:45:25,622 --> 00:45:25,781
Speaker 1: Yes?

960
00:45:25,862 --> 00:45:26,181
Speaker 3: She did?

961
00:45:26,622 --> 00:45:29,102
Speaker 2: Me being the person to organize like the gift and

962
00:45:29,102 --> 00:45:31,181
Speaker 2: then all the money from all the different bank accounts

963
00:45:31,181 --> 00:45:33,301
Speaker 2: and then do people like it? Don't they? I'd put

964
00:45:33,342 --> 00:45:35,341
Speaker 2: one of the wrong people in the group chat who

965
00:45:35,382 --> 00:45:37,181
Speaker 2: wasn't invited, and they were like, oh, I didn't know

966
00:45:37,181 --> 00:45:38,861
Speaker 2: there was a dinner on Saturday night, and now I

967
00:45:38,902 --> 00:45:42,022
Speaker 2: was like, oh, not for you. It was very stressful. However,

968
00:45:42,022 --> 00:45:43,582
Speaker 2: the reason it was my best of the week is

969
00:45:43,582 --> 00:45:46,502
Speaker 2: I passed by in a cold test. The dinner went

970
00:45:46,582 --> 00:45:50,542
Speaker 2: off just fine. Nothing terrible happened. We did forget to

971
00:45:50,582 --> 00:45:53,622
Speaker 2: sing Happy Birthday, but we rectified that the next day.

972
00:45:53,942 --> 00:45:55,542
Speaker 1: Did you do the seating chat? Holla?

973
00:45:55,542 --> 00:45:57,501
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I did not but I should have done.

974
00:45:58,221 --> 00:46:00,142
Speaker 2: I should have done. And then we had a big

975
00:46:00,181 --> 00:46:02,502
Speaker 2: family gathering on Sunday and it was one of those lovely,

976
00:46:02,661 --> 00:46:05,022
Speaker 2: heart filling weekends. But my god, if I never have

977
00:46:05,142 --> 00:46:07,502
Speaker 2: to organize a social event again, I will be here.

978
00:46:07,582 --> 00:46:09,862
Speaker 3: I hate the pressure, I hate the press. Sure of

979
00:46:09,902 --> 00:46:10,782
Speaker 3: it all going well.

980
00:46:11,062 --> 00:46:13,462
Speaker 1: I'm definitely the organizer in my friendship group. And I

981
00:46:13,462 --> 00:46:15,622
Speaker 1: did organize my own fortieth birthday and it was great.

982
00:46:15,822 --> 00:46:17,821
Speaker 2: Oh why would you do that?

983
00:46:18,022 --> 00:46:20,502
Speaker 1: You love organizing people and telling them what to do

984
00:46:20,622 --> 00:46:21,181
Speaker 1: and where to go.

985
00:46:21,382 --> 00:46:22,982
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness.

986
00:46:23,542 --> 00:46:25,942
Speaker 2: That is all we have time for today, And a

987
00:46:26,022 --> 00:46:28,422
Speaker 2: massive thank you to you, Amelia for filling in for

988
00:46:28,542 --> 00:46:30,861
Speaker 2: me this week. It's been a pleasure as always to

989
00:46:30,942 --> 00:46:33,301
Speaker 2: have you, and to the out louders for being here

990
00:46:33,342 --> 00:46:34,861
Speaker 2: with us today and all week. We're going to be

991
00:46:34,862 --> 00:46:37,902
Speaker 2: back in your ears next time next week rather Monday,

992
00:46:37,982 --> 00:46:41,582
Speaker 2: my God's Friday. My head's fallen off, Jesse, Amelia, take

993
00:46:41,661 --> 00:46:41,981
Speaker 2: us home.

994
00:46:42,422 --> 00:46:45,701
Speaker 3: A big thank you to our team group executive producer

995
00:46:45,902 --> 00:46:49,862
Speaker 3: Ruth Devine, executive producer Emmeline Gazillis, our.

996
00:46:49,741 --> 00:46:53,781
Speaker 1: Audio producer is Leah Porges, our video producer is Josh Green,

997
00:46:54,022 --> 00:46:57,661
Speaker 1: and our junior content producers, a Coco and a special

998
00:46:57,661 --> 00:47:00,142
Speaker 1: shout out to Tessa who looked after my son during

999
00:47:00,181 --> 00:47:00,662
Speaker 1: this record.

1000
00:47:03,261 --> 00:47:07,022
Speaker 2: Bye out loud as We know you're not quite ready

1001
00:47:07,022 --> 00:47:08,701
Speaker 2: to say goodbye yet, so we thought we'd leave you

1002
00:47:08,701 --> 00:47:10,781
Speaker 2: with a little bit of a tea for a conversation

1003
00:47:10,862 --> 00:47:12,861
Speaker 2: we had on a subscriber episode this week. It was

1004
00:47:12,902 --> 00:47:15,701
Speaker 2: me and Miya and Amelia and we didn't ask us anything,

1005
00:47:16,221 --> 00:47:18,661
Speaker 2: and we covered all kinds of ground, including of course

1006
00:47:18,701 --> 00:47:22,302
Speaker 2: a bit of US politics. Maya and Amelia's friendship story

1007
00:47:22,382 --> 00:47:24,022
Speaker 2: which was beautiful and I.

1008
00:47:24,062 --> 00:47:26,062
Speaker 1: Have to add that we also talked about whether or

1009
00:47:26,102 --> 00:47:28,261
Speaker 1: not Holly Waynwright is still wearing her shape We're to

1010
00:47:28,302 --> 00:47:28,942
Speaker 1: the Beach.

1011
00:47:29,102 --> 00:47:30,821
Speaker 3: I think I got a DM about that and I

1012
00:47:30,862 --> 00:47:32,142
Speaker 3: was like, Holly, the people want to know.

1013
00:47:33,181 --> 00:47:35,422
Speaker 2: It's a great app. There's a link to listen in

1014
00:47:35,462 --> 00:47:36,182
Speaker 2: the show notes.

1015
00:47:36,862 --> 00:47:39,781
Speaker 3: Shout out to any Mum and mea subscribers listening. If

1016
00:47:39,822 --> 00:47:41,781
Speaker 3: you love the show and you want to support us,

1017
00:47:42,022 --> 00:47:44,822
Speaker 3: subscribing to Mom and Mia is the very best way

1018
00:47:44,862 --> 00:47:47,422
Speaker 3: to do so. There's a link in the episode description