1 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mama Ma I 2 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters that 3 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 1: this podcast is recorded on. 4 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 2: I can always have moments of like absolute insane happiness, 5 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 2: because that's who I am. But it's very inconsistent and 6 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 2: it's very unstable, and the drops are so so dark 7 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 2: that for now my happy's aren't as happy, but my 8 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 2: sad's Arena's sad. 9 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to But are you Happy? This is 10 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: the podcast that ask the questions you've always wanted to 11 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: know from the people who appear to have it all. 12 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: I'm Klas Stevens and today's guest Steph Tisdall is somebody 13 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: you might know from her viral stand up comedy. You 14 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: might also know her from her roles on TV shows 15 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:11,479 Speaker 1: like Total Control and Bump, or from movies like Class 16 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: of Seven and Lovers in the Air, or for her 17 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: writing for TV on the award winning comedy fisk on 18 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: Bump and her debut young adult book The Skin I'm In. 19 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:30,759 Speaker 1: She had me laughing before and after this conversation. She's 20 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: exceptionally warm, but it's also one of the most emotionally 21 00:01:37,119 --> 00:01:40,919 Speaker 1: raw conversations I've had on this show and it really 22 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:45,359 Speaker 1: really stuck with me. She was a rising star in 23 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: comedy and on stage she was being applauded by sold 24 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: out audiences. She was a golden girl of Australian comedy, 25 00:01:55,720 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: and then behind the scenes she was living a very 26 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: different life where she was in an abusive relationship with 27 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: someone who isolated her and financially abused her and knew 28 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 1: exactly how to pinpoint her vulnerabilities to hurt her. And 29 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: she is incredibly insightful about how certain types of people 30 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: can capitalize on your kindness and empathy. I asked her 31 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 1: about the tension as a First Nations woman of creating 32 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: comedy for two different audiences, one which is her own 33 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: community and one which is the rest of Australia. We 34 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: talk about some pretty heavy topics in this conversation, so 35 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: I'm going to pop some links in the show notes 36 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: for anyone who needs support. We start our conversation where 37 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: I like to start all the conversations on this show, 38 00:02:54,440 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: by asking if Steph had a happy childhood. I want 39 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: to start with how you grew up and whether you 40 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: grew up in a happy family, because this podcast is 41 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: all about happiness and I wonder how the way your 42 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: life started kind of informed your approach to happiness. 43 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 2: Okay, I think it depends what you define happiness as. Obviously, 44 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 2: I grew up with a lot of privilege. I grew 45 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 2: up with never wanting for anything material or financial, but 46 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 2: maybe other things emotional needs. Not that I was neglected 47 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 2: at all, It's just I was the youngest of four kids, 48 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 2: and my parents were really, really, really busy to make 49 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 2: sure they could provide us with stuff. Yeah, I don't 50 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 2: really even know how to answer that. I loved my childhood, 51 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 2: but I also recognize that there are some mental. 52 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 3: Health issues that I have probably as a result. 53 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 2: But I think that's pretty normal and I wouldn't ever 54 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 2: want to make it seem anything other than privileged. 55 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: What was your biggest challenge to happiness growing up? What 56 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: do you kind of remember was the thing that made 57 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: you not be able to fully lean into enjoying everything. 58 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 2: I think from the outside, my family was perfect, and 59 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 2: I think it was a lot of pressure. I think 60 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 2: I'm very different from the rest of my family in 61 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 2: that I'm a creative and an incredibly emotional person. I'm 62 00:04:41,280 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 2: the only girl, and I think there was a lot 63 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 2: of don't be like that. I think that was the 64 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 2: biggest issue that I had. I also think my parents 65 00:04:53,280 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 2: had a really interesting dynamic. We were just raised to 66 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 2: be the best children and put everybody else first, And 67 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 2: as a result, I've been in a lot of very 68 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 2: damaging relationship I think with friends, with you know, partners, 69 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 2: because I wanted to see the best and am used 70 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 2: to taking that role of I will nurture, nurture, nurture, 71 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:24,599 Speaker 2: and my feelings don't matter. 72 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: And so do you think you leaving that environment in 73 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 1: relationships and in friendships? Are you expecting the best from people? 74 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 1: Like do you think you're putting that on to other 75 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: people or do you think that you're just used to 76 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: not prioritizing yourself. 77 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 3: I'm not really sure. 78 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 2: I think I have that stereotypical I want to fix everyone. 79 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 2: It's been really hard to kind of unloan that because 80 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 2: I'm not a dumb person. And you go, you kind 81 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 2: of go, yeah, But the reason I'm making these decisions 82 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 2: is because I have the capacity and I know that 83 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 2: I have the capacity and the insight and the softness 84 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 2: to allow people to be a little broken something. So 85 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 2: you go, no, no, no, it's fine, It's different. I need 86 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 2: to love somebody unconditionally because they haven't been shown that before. 87 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 2: But the problem is that actually there is such thing 88 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 2: as people just being wankers? 89 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean? 90 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 2: And yeah, I make too many excuses for people, and 91 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 2: then wonder how the fuck I ended up where I 92 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 2: ended up. 93 00:06:31,840 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: Did you grow up with any because just from what 94 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: I'm hearing from that, I wonder if you grew up 95 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: with any religion or spirituality, because there is this idea, 96 00:06:42,280 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 1: that unconditional love thing. I know from a Catholic background 97 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: that I find it hard to differentiate between the two. 98 00:06:48,280 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 1: That you're meant to love unconditionally and you are meant 99 00:06:51,840 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: to see the absolute best in people, and everybody is 100 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: see God in everyone, But then there's people who don't 101 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: have your best interest in it. And I have no 102 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: idea how those two things co exist. 103 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 3: I don't either. 104 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 2: It mean the hardest thing, I definitely didn't grow up 105 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 2: with religion. I just I think I grew up with 106 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 2: a lot of different perspectives and this kind of attitude 107 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 2: that never ever take the simple, one dimensional answer. 108 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 3: We were always kind. 109 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 2: Of encouraged to delve deep and figure out why somebody 110 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 2: would do something which you know, in hindsight or with therapy, 111 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 2: I recognized was I wasn't allowed to have a feeling. 112 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 3: But at the. 113 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 2: Time it kind of makes you feel smart, right as 114 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 2: a kid to be like, oh, that's all right, they 115 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 2: were just feeling this. But yeah, a lot of damaging 116 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 2: people in my life as a result of going because 117 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 2: I know where it's coming from, or because I feel 118 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 2: I know better, I have to forgive this and cop this. 119 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 2: And you know, I'm in therapy. Who isn't anybody who's 120 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 2: worth talking to is you know? Yeah, And one of 121 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 2: the things that my therapist is trying to teach me 122 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 2: it's like, you're allowed to set boundaries and I go, oh, yeah, 123 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 2: but you've got to let somebody you know, Like yeah, 124 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 2: so I really didn't expect childhood stuff. 125 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 3: This was a real shock to me. Like I've sorry, no, no, no, 126 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 3: it's fine. No, it's because I didn't want to be prepared. 127 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 2: But as somebody who's very openly vulnerable, I feel like 128 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 2: that's maybe the one area that I'm not. 129 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 3: So it's like, interesting, I've gone real serious. 130 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: And I think even people who had incredibly privileged childhoods, 131 00:08:33,439 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: it really does inform your relationship with happiness because you 132 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: might have a parent who struggled with their own mental health. 133 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: You might have a dynamic that wasn't always good for 134 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 1: prioritizing your own happiness. Yeah, you've just released your first 135 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: novel or the skin I'm in, and before the book begins, 136 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: you have a page that reads, this book was written 137 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: on the back of the hardest years of my life 138 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: to date, an escape and catharsis to unpack some of 139 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 1: the demons that come with struggling with identity and finding 140 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: your place in the world. Can you explain that? 141 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:08,439 Speaker 3: Yeah? 142 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 2: Oh, man, So at the time I was going through, like, 143 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 2: I'm a completely different person than I was, say, four 144 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 2: years ago. I was leaving a relationship that was very 145 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 2: abusive and very scary to leave, and I was doing 146 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 2: it while my career was blowing up, and it was terrifying. 147 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:38,319 Speaker 2: I was so burnt out, I was so busy, and 148 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 2: then I was just being harassed and threatened and my 149 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 2: livelihood was being threatened and I had to was just 150 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 2: before I started filming Total Control, which was like my 151 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,079 Speaker 2: big sort of breakout thing, and I had to call 152 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 2: up the producers and say I need to come down 153 00:09:56,680 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 2: to Sydney. Early because I might get murdered. And I 154 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 2: go on to set I've never really done before, and 155 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 2: people are touching your face, you know, the whole time, 156 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 2: and you're so surrounded by people, and it was like great. 157 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 3: It was the biggest break for me. 158 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 2: But I would come back to my hotel and just 159 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 2: see emails upon emails upon emails and have to go 160 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 2: to the police and be like, Okay, he's breached the 161 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 2: DVO and just the emotional turmoil of everything, and you 162 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 2: know that it's going to happen, and then you think 163 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 2: it won't, but you can't figure out why you keep 164 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 2: on staying and then when you finally go, you go, oh, 165 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 2: it's worse than I thought. 166 00:10:38,680 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 3: And I'm lucky. 167 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 2: I mean, it's really hard to talk about because I 168 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 2: always feel like I'm lucky because he didn't hit me. 169 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 2: But the more that I listen and learn, I go, 170 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:54,199 Speaker 2: this was fucking exactly what coercive control is. And I 171 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,199 Speaker 2: had no idea who I was at the end of it, 172 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 2: and I didn't have a second to stop and think 173 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 2: about who I was, and so I was isolated and 174 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 2: I was sort of stepping into this new world and 175 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 2: it's like you both want to talk about it and 176 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 2: not talk about it and laugh about it and not 177 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 2: laugh about it. And yeah, and while that was happening, 178 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 2: some I guess difficult stuff happened in my career, and 179 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 2: even like, I don't think it would have been a 180 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 2: problem at all had I not already been going through that. 181 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 2: But when you do what you love and you are 182 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 2: doing it because you have a goal in mind, nobody 183 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:36,199 Speaker 2: tells you how weird it feels when people know who 184 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 2: you are and how much because I'm a really authentic person, 185 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 2: and how hard it is to know how much to 186 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 2: give and how how much you may. 187 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 3: Open yourself up to shit. Yeah, it was a really 188 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 3: hard time. 189 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 2: And then at the end of it, I ended up 190 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 2: doing another show with all of these queer women and 191 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 2: they're like, I'm pretty sure your queer stuff and I 192 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 2: was like, no, I'm not, and that I went, oh, no, 193 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 2: I probably am. Yeah, So like it was weird, like 194 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 2: it just one year I dated man and the next 195 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 2: year dated women and it was you know that it 196 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 2: was a hard time and it was like a re 197 00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 2: teenagehood and I had to like of go, fucking hell, 198 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 2: how much did I hate myself to let this person 199 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 2: treat me like this for so long without ever honestly 200 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 2: believing I deserved better than that. 201 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:33,200 Speaker 1: Do you think it was a process of things starting 202 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: really really small, so it was almost imperceptible, that coercive control, 203 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: and then getting to the point like when you say 204 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: somebody's contacting you constantly and breaching dbos. Was it so 205 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: small that it was almost just like it starts and 206 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: then by the time it gets to that, it's been 207 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: so gradual that you think it's normal. 208 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 3: Do you know what? 209 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 2: No, I think that's probably the case for a lot 210 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 2: of people. When I look back, I go, what the 211 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 2: fuck did I do? It was so obvious so soon. 212 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 2: It really fucked me up because I recognized that I 213 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 2: don't think I cared what I thought about who I did, 214 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 2: and I just wanted to be loved, and the male 215 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 2: gaze was so important to me, and I just wanted intimacy. 216 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,439 Speaker 2: I wanted children, so I really wanted to have kids 217 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 2: with him, which I'm so fucking glad that I didn't, 218 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,479 Speaker 2: but like, I just wanted to be accepted. 219 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 3: Honestly, I look back and I go, I do not 220 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 3: know how I. 221 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 2: Ever thought that that was acceptable, even the first time 222 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 2: that I told him that I loved him, was oh, 223 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 2: it makes me sick thinking back, like, it makes me 224 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 2: really sad for the version of me that. 225 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 3: Would have accepted that. 226 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 2: I just thought he was so beautiful, you know. And 227 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 2: I said to him because I just saw a sadness 228 00:13:53,560 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 2: in his eyes that I recognized, I think, And I 229 00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 2: was like, you're so beautiful. 230 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 3: What are you doing with me? You could have anyone? 231 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 3: And he's like, oh, no, you know. I was like, no, 232 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 3: I look at you, and. 233 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 2: He goes, okay, So look, yeah, if we asked ten 234 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 2: people on the street if they found you attractive, maybe one, 235 00:14:10,560 --> 00:14:13,319 Speaker 2: maybe two would say yes, and then the majority wouldn't. 236 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 2: But at least I think you're beautiful. And I was like, 237 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 2: I love you. That was my first time that I 238 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 2: told him I loved him, because I just I need 239 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 2: that so badly. I mean, by the end of it, 240 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 2: a lot of isolation. But I was also paying our 241 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 2: rent and our bills, paying him a wage. He just 242 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 2: had his finger in every pie, you know. And my 243 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 2: friends always laughed me like, Steph, I don't even think 244 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 2: he likes you. 245 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 3: I don't know that he just he hates you, Like 246 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 3: this is a man who does not like you. 247 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 2: But I was just scared to leave him because because 248 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 2: I knew that he was wrong, And it was like, 249 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 2: did I actually stay because my own ego and pride? 250 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 2: And it's like, yeah, when somebody takes away everything else, 251 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 2: you'll stay just to go. He'll realize soon that that's 252 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 2: not This isn't okay. It's really odd. 253 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: What I find really interesting is even you talk me 254 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: about your childhood and then talking about this sometimes I 255 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: almost think profound empathy can be a curse because you 256 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: talk about that sadness that you saw in his eyes, 257 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: and I'm sure it was there. And when you can 258 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: look at anyone and see their pain and see who 259 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: they are, it's then really hard to look at them 260 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: and say objectively you're doing the wrong thing because you 261 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: do gymnastics to work out their motivation. No, actually they're 262 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: right because I did this. And it's this weird thing 263 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: where empathy has to stop somewhere. It's weird. 264 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 2: I agree, Like that's been the hardest thing in the 265 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 2: with therapy afterwards toos, it's like, yeah, but if you 266 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 2: can understand where somebody's coming from, or like if you 267 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 2: know that they don't see what they're doing, because they 268 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 2: have this gap in their understanding. Then you've got a 269 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 2: gift you can offer them, and it say no, no, no, no, 270 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 2: they don't. 271 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 3: Want to change. 272 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 2: And also the thing that I think I really struggled 273 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 2: with was some people are sociopathic. Like of course, like 274 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 2: I was earning good money by the time that I 275 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 2: left him. I don't know anymore, but I was for 276 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 2: a time. Because acting is much harder than comedy. You 277 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 2: wouldn't have thought that, out of the two, comedy was 278 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 2: the money maker. 279 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 3: But anyway, but like I. 280 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 2: Think he saw in me an ambitious but insecure woman, 281 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 2: you know, who wanted approve all. Yeah, I think I 282 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 2: was right for the picking, you know. And I think, though, 283 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 2: what is difficult. I had a therapy session last week 284 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 2: where my therapist said I was saying to her that 285 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 2: somebody that I was talking to set a boundary and 286 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 2: they weren't mad at me. And I was like, why 287 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 2: why aren't they mad at me? She's like, because just 288 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 2: letting you know that's a boundary. And I was like, 289 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 2: but I've obviously done something wrong. She's like, no, that's 290 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 2: not And I said, now I need to know what 291 00:17:06,879 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 2: that I can't settle, And they must be hiding something 292 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 2: from me. And she said, feel more comfortable with anger, 293 00:17:13,159 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 2: and I said, because I know how to react to 294 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 2: anger in a way that makes me feel softer or 295 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 2: reinforces my own sense of self, which is soft, kind, whatever, 296 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 2: And what a fucked thing. 297 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: And it's hard to know when somebody said a boundary 298 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: with you, they're actually not angry with you, and they're 299 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: not angry with you because they've set the boundary. Yes, 300 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: it's like, no, this is actually a really safe relation. 301 00:17:36,120 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but it doesn't feel like that, yeah, 302 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 3: one hundred percent. Because then I was like, what do 303 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:41,159 Speaker 3: I need to fit like? 304 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 2: And that Yeah, my therapist was like, do you feel 305 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 2: better being in fix it mode? And I was like, 306 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 2: fucking don't. 307 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: Do this today. 308 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 3: But it's true, like there's a level of. 309 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 2: Control if you're somebody who you know, like the part 310 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 2: of me that I identify with outwardly, or the one 311 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 2: thing that I want people to know about me above 312 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 2: anything else, you know, like the biggest compliment that you 313 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 2: could give me is that I'm kind, Do you know 314 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 2: what I mean? I want to be kind because that's 315 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 2: all I've ever wanted to be. And so it's like 316 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 2: if I don't feel like I'm being the kindest person 317 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 2: in the whole world or in the room or whatever 318 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 2: it is, that that can erode at such a weird thing. 319 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:22,199 Speaker 1: And it doesn't feel kind to look at someone and 320 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: think you're. 321 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 3: A sociopath one hundred. 322 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: But you have to because those people exist. They just do. 323 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: And there's a lot that wouldn't be happening in the 324 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 1: world if they weren't sociopaths. 325 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 3: They're just. 326 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 2: H and it's it's so hard, hey, And but like 327 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 2: my dad is the world's kindest man, like to his detriment, right, 328 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,439 Speaker 2: And one time we went out for dinner and like, 329 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 2: this was like the last big fight that I have 330 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,199 Speaker 2: with my dad. We don't fight, we're really close, but 331 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 2: we had a big fight because we went to dinner 332 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 2: and I, for some unknown reasons, I don't even eat fish, 333 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,479 Speaker 2: but I ordered fish and chips and they brought out 334 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 2: the wrong thing. They brought out like a steamed fish, 335 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 2: and I was like, absolutely. 336 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: Not, I'm not going to be eating yeah, and then. 337 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 2: Dad was like, we're not sending it back, Steff, I'll 338 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 2: eat it. And I went, Dad, you're not even allowed 339 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 2: to eat fish. He's like allergic to fish, and I 340 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 2: was like, like, no, I could just ask for that 341 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,120 Speaker 2: isn't what I ordered, And he's like, do not take 342 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 2: it back? And we had a fight because he got 343 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,360 Speaker 2: up me and I thought, like, we're allowed to ask 344 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:20,959 Speaker 2: for the other thing. 345 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 1: Yes, we're actually allowed, actually allowed, and it's okay, and 346 00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 1: no one's going to cry and no one's going to 347 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:27,640 Speaker 1: hate us. 348 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 2: But man, there was a big fight at the table 349 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 2: that line, and he was very unhappy that I didn't 350 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 2: eat that steamed fish that looked disgusting. 351 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: You know that you didn't order us Exactly exactly after 352 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: the break, Steph and I talk about the joke that 353 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: made her quit comedy. I have a theory that the 354 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:58,919 Speaker 1: world lies to us a bit about happiness and that 355 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 1: often the moments that externally look the happiest internally or not. 356 00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: And to me, it sounds like you had that experience 357 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 1: coming up in where on the outside you were seriously 358 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: Australia's Findings comedian. Everybody was just obsessed and you were 359 00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: so confident and so charismatic, and you're on stage and 360 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: you're doing TV and looks like things couldn't go better, 361 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: and then behind the scenes you're going through something so hard. 362 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I didn't think i'd survive it, like the 363 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:37,639 Speaker 2: whole thing. And I'm not just talking about from his 364 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 2: end either, I'm talking about from me. It was the 365 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 2: hardest time in my life, and you become this needy, desperate, 366 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:46,880 Speaker 2: like childlike version of yourself. 367 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 3: I feel really emotional when you leave because you. 368 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 2: Like have to restore all of your old relationships. And yeah, 369 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 2: it was kind of new that I was in a 370 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 2: position where I was doing so well, so all of 371 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 2: my even people quite close to me, like, oh my god, 372 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 2: look at you blow them up, you know, and you 373 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 2: just go. I literally I feel ungrateful to talk about 374 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 2: how fucking hard this is. And the better that my 375 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 2: career was going, the more I felt that I deserved 376 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 2: what was happening, because do you know what I'm saying, 377 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 2: I didn't want to feel like, oh on now, I 378 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 2: think I'm better than that. This is what I am. 379 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, I also think 380 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 2: that like the way that we sort of portray success 381 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 2: publicly on screen or whatever, including on social media, is 382 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 2: so fucked because there's only two things that make somebody successful. 383 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 2: I think it's hard work and emotional intelligence. 384 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 3: That's it. Like anybody can do it, do you know 385 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 3: what I mean? 386 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you can't. Interestingly, there are two things you 387 00:21:54,120 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: can't see in a photo or a video or whatever. 388 00:21:58,200 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 3: You also can't teach them. 389 00:21:59,400 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 390 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 3: I am always surprised by people. 391 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 2: That I meet that I look up to, and I go, oh, 392 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 2: it's not these things that I have in my head 393 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 2: of like odds because they're beautiful. It's because of oh 394 00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 2: they grew up here or they had this privilege. 395 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 3: It's not. 396 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 2: It's like people who know how to make everyone feel 397 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 2: safe in the space. Well women, I don't know, there's 398 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 2: a lot of fuck Menah. 399 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: But who you mean? You go, how the hell did 400 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: you get there? Yeah? 401 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. 402 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 2: But like a lot of the women that I've met, 403 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 2: I go, oh, you know how to make people feel. 404 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: I love that. That's actually really profound. And the hard 405 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 1: work and emotional intelligence, the hard work element I completely 406 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: agree with and have thought that you look at anybody, 407 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: and as somebody who can be quite cynical, I can 408 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 1: look at people and be like, oh, yeah, you're there 409 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: because like you've got that fucker face yeah yeah, yeah, 410 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,880 Speaker 1: yeah yeah, and you kind of dismiss like you're there 411 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: because of even like you can dismiss things in so 412 00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: many different ways about why people have what they have, 413 00:22:57,880 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: whenever you get close to it, you see, oh you 414 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 1: actually do I have anything without hard work. It's very 415 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 1: hard to stumble up with without any hard work. And 416 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:09,360 Speaker 1: then emotional intelligence. That's very, very very true. Yeah, that's 417 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:10,160 Speaker 1: something you notice. 418 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I remember the first time that I met 419 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 2: This is such a weird person to bring up because 420 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 2: it's not the most famous person that I've met. 421 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 3: She's just had this like I don't know. 422 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 2: She was on my TV when I was a teenager, 423 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 2: you know, Caitlin Stacy. 424 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, yes, I've met her and. 425 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 3: I was like, what's she gonna be like? 426 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 2: And she's fucking the smartest person I've ever met, like 427 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 2: and hard working. 428 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 1: And that was kind of after you were doing comedy 429 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 1: doing really well. Would you say you quit comedy for acting? 430 00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 1: And why did you quit comedy? 431 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 3: Because comedy was going to put me in the grave. 432 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 3: It's the hardest thing. 433 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 2: It's the hardest because this is this is how I 434 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:59,640 Speaker 2: always explain it. It's the most vulnerable thing you'll ever 435 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 2: do in the least intimate setting. I tell secrets on 436 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 2: stage that I haven't told my closest friends, you know. 437 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 2: And it's also incredibly lonely. I never fit in with 438 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 2: other comedians, mostly because they're just a. 439 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 3: Lot cooler than me. Like I'm not a cool person. 440 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 1: I'd have no idea what to expect. 441 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:21,479 Speaker 2: No, I mean like that makes it sound like I'm 442 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 2: shitting on them. I'm not like they're great, but like 443 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 2: I don't know how to banter. I want a D 444 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 2: and M and I want to have an emotional yarn 445 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 2: and I also I was having a different experience to 446 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,360 Speaker 2: the people that I was performing with, Like I went 447 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,919 Speaker 2: on tour, for example, I did the Melbourne Comedy Festival 448 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 2: road show and it used to drive me nuts because 449 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 2: I was always performing with straight white men. But we 450 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 2: get to somewhere and when you're a person of color, 451 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 2: I don't care who you are. There is a sixth 452 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 2: sense that you have. It doesn't matter how how much 453 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 2: you can get by, doesn't matter where you come from. 454 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 2: You have a sixth sense that lets you know when 455 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 2: you're not being perceived the way that other people are 456 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 2: being perceived. And the amount of times that I stepped 457 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 2: onto a stage, I always open with I'm a proud 458 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 2: Aboriginal woman, and I see eye rolls, and I see people, oh, 459 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 2: here we go, and you see this kind of thing, 460 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 2: and you have to stand there with the biggest smile 461 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 2: on and advocate, knowing that there are people who already 462 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 2: don't want to laugh, think that you're the diversity token Act. 463 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 2: And then you've also got this kind of extra scanning 464 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,400 Speaker 2: that comes from within your own community as well, because 465 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 2: we're so afraid of having our image and reputation tainted 466 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 2: and tarnished because it's never been under our control, that 467 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,959 Speaker 2: there is this sort of policing or gate keeping that happens, 468 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 2: and it happens in a lot of marginalized groups, and 469 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 2: I understand it. But the amount of work and thought 470 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 2: that went into every single word that I said on 471 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 2: stage felt like I was doing a different task to 472 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 2: my piece. 473 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 1: Oh one hundred. They literally would get up, And I'm 474 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: sure for a lot of people it's like, leave political 475 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,680 Speaker 1: correctness at the door. Be as cutting edge and wild 476 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,919 Speaker 1: as I possibly can. But when you have an extra 477 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: sense of responsibility that you are not only like it's 478 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 1: enough being a bloody woman, and then you're an Indigenous 479 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 1: woman standing there that you then have the responsibility of 480 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 1: representing your community in a way that they are happy with. 481 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 2: Yes, the hardest balance was and I remember having this 482 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 2: conversation with someone and feeling a lot of guilt and 483 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 2: shame about it. 484 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 3: As I'm getting older, I'm going No. 485 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,160 Speaker 2: I still and even when I felt guilt or shame 486 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,640 Speaker 2: for it, I still stand by. I kind of got 487 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 2: asked this question of like, well, who's your audience. Is 488 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 2: it white fellows or is it black fellows? And I 489 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 2: was like, it's white fellows. I don't want to preach 490 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 2: to the converted. Black fellows will love me regardless because 491 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 2: I'm Black. We know each other's experience and stuff like that. 492 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 2: The problem is that if you steer indigenous material towards 493 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 2: white people, you begin to exclude your own people, and 494 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 2: that is a very shameful and difficult process to handle, 495 00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 2: where you go, oh, fuck, I haven't even performed for 496 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 2: black fellows, and that long, I don't even know if 497 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 2: this is funny anymore. 498 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 3: To my own people. 499 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think as well though, because comedy was 500 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 2: never about I don't know, being famous or whatever. It 501 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 2: was about sharing love and sending a message. Then again, 502 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 2: it felt like I was just playing a different game 503 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 2: to other people, And so my level of fear and 504 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 2: nerves and anxiety before and after a gig felt like 505 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 2: I was being too much again or too emotional or whatever, 506 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 2: like there are so many beautiful, lovely comedians, like I'm 507 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 2: not saying that there aren't. I just didn't feel like 508 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 2: it was supportive enough for something. 509 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 1: It wasn't wasn't your people. 510 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 2: No, no, yeah, because I couldn't just have that moment 511 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 2: going like here's what I'm thinking about when I'm doing 512 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 2: this joke and whatever, and then you go on theres 513 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 2: a funny punchline. 514 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 3: You go, no, no, no, no, I. 515 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 2: Need to know whether you understand that I you know, 516 00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 2: kind of I've built all of this behind it to 517 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 2: make sure that this says all of this, and most 518 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:19,919 Speaker 2: people won't see all of this, but one person, you know, 519 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 2: and it's kind of like okay. And it was always 520 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 2: late nights, early flights, alone all the time, and you 521 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 2: get so weird when you're alone but surrounded by people, 522 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 2: like you know, you get up on stage absolutely exhausted. 523 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 2: You just give everything, and then you step off stage 524 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 2: and people are like, stay being funny. 525 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 3: That was all I had, Man, like that was all 526 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 3: I had, Like, you know. 527 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 1: I cannot imagine that would be the really, really tough 528 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: fit coming off stage and then people being like you 529 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 1: still like that, and you're like, I know, I'm exhausted, 530 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: I need to go to bed. 531 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 2: But I'm too friendly as well, and I hate being inauthentic. 532 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 2: I will get stuck in conversations for people for hours 533 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 2: about shit, and I like, and I think, I'm so 534 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 2: glad they're being so kind, but fuck off, And I 535 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 2: hate saying it, but that's the fucking truth, man. And 536 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 2: I think that this is very specific to comedians as well. 537 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: Over familiarity, Oh because you've shared something. 538 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, But do you know what is so funny 539 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 2: is that I think probably the thing that pushed me 540 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 2: over the edge to stop doing comedy was everything that 541 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 2: happened with my ex, Like it was so embarrassing I 542 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 2: have to call up a venue and be like, if 543 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 2: you see this person, you have to call the police, like, 544 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 2: which is a very weird and embarrassing thing to do, 545 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 2: but it haunts me. People will tell me hot boomeranger 546 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 2: and they go, so where is he, and I'm like, 547 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 2: he's got a DVO. 548 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: I was institutionalized I was gonna ask when you're talking 549 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: about your ex, I'm like, there's a lot of jokes 550 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: you made about a certain person, and I was going 551 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: to say, is that here, Yeah, yeah, because all those 552 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: they were hilarious. Yeah, it was jokes, and they were 553 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: asking something pretty fucked up. 554 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 3: Yeah. 555 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 2: Well no, but at the time I didn't Yeah, I 556 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 2: didn't feel like that. 557 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. 558 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 2: But also like the was a bit of my existence 559 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 2: was after the fact, he was like, well, I. 560 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: Made you, Oh Jesus. 561 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 2: I made you, so anything you earn I'm entitled to. 562 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 2: And he was like trying to go through courts and everything, 563 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 2: and I'm like and he's like, you only got a 564 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 2: DVO because you are so you know, trying to hold 565 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 2: your reputation together. And I'm like, no, it's because you 566 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 2: won't stop contacting me. I'm scared you're gonna kill me. 567 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: That's not how Wow, that's not how art works. You're 568 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 1: not entitled to my staff because it happened to me 569 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 1: in my life. Wow. But it really is that contrast 570 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: between you on stage looking so happy, relaxed, at peace 571 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: at home, and clearly there was a lot going on 572 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: around that, but. 573 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 2: I did feel happy in those moments because I was 574 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 2: away from that. Yeah, there is no better, more powerful 575 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 2: feeling than being on stage because it's love. That's why 576 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 2: I think I also stopped enjoying comedy as much when 577 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 2: I was doing more TV comedy then live comedy. I've 578 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 2: got some amazing mentors as well, called Kevin Crabineri, who 579 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 2: is my mentor who's changed my life, and he always 580 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 2: says to me, the one thing that you need to 581 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 2: know to be successful is if you love your audience, 582 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 2: they'll love you. And so every time I walk and 583 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 2: say to you, I'm just gonna hug this audience with 584 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 2: my presence and like it's something I don't even know 585 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 2: how to describe it. And it feels very black to 586 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 2: me because me and I used to tour it a 587 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 2: lot with the Aboriginal All Stars and we'd all kind 588 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 2: of talk about it, like expanding your energy to fit 589 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 2: the whole room right like, and it's so tiring. 590 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 3: And I always like. 591 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 2: I was mentoring a lot of people for a little bit, 592 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 2: and I'd be like, if you're not exhausted after five minutes, 593 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 2: you haven't put enough energy yet, you know, like you 594 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 2: should be exhausted, because it's like you've got to actively 595 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 2: feel you feeling every single corner of that. 596 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: Ye. Do you feel the same about acting? So you've 597 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: been in CLASSO seven. You did Loves in the Air 598 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: on Netflix and in Total Control it was more of 599 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: a serious role. Do you feel present in those moments? 600 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 2: Acting is the best thing I've ever done, and it's 601 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 2: so different to what I ever expected. 602 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 3: It's teamwork. Like, have you been on a set? 603 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I wrote a show for Singe and no, no, no, no, no, no. 604 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: First I wrote an episode and was on set for it. Yeah, 605 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 1: and it's it blows my mind. Yeah, Like I was like, 606 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: you film things out of order? Yeah? 607 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm like I. 608 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 1: Thought you filmed a chronology. 609 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah. 610 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. 611 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 2: Everything about it is so everyone who's reliant on each other. 612 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 3: It feels like community. 613 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: It must be quite a contrast to comedy, because being 614 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: on a set must feel a lot more like a 615 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: workplace because you've got this huge team of people around you. 616 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: You have no choice, especially for performance, you have no 617 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 1: choice but to trust the people with yeah, and just 618 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: lean into that. If you don't, you just can't do it. 619 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: And but that must actually be a lot better I 620 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: would think for mental health. Yes, that you're around people. 621 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 3: Yes, I mean. 622 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 2: It's like it's double edged sword, right, Like I think 623 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 2: I'm an incredibly anxious person, like I have like panic disorder. 624 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 3: I really struggle with mental health. 625 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 2: It's just something that I have a real problem with 626 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 2: and trauma and blah blah blah blah blah, a whole 627 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 2: bunch of shit. Whereas when you're acting, you've got a 628 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 2: character that you can fall into and you kind of 629 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 2: can have elements of you and elements of the character. 630 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 2: Like it's really it's really weird. Although the other side 631 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 2: of it is that I want everyone to feel good 632 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 2: all the time, and sometimes I give way more energy 633 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 2: than I have in me because there are like sixty 634 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 2: people around it all times, and I walk away going. 635 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 3: What the fuck have I just done? 636 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got. 637 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 3: Nothing in the tank. 638 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, but my management's really good at like I go, 639 00:34:11,799 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 2: I need time off after acting, you know, I don't know, 640 00:34:15,799 --> 00:34:17,359 Speaker 2: I much prefer it, but I don't want it to 641 00:34:17,359 --> 00:34:19,879 Speaker 2: sound like I'm shitting on comedy. It's just I know 642 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 2: it was so bad for my mental health. 643 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 1: After the break, Steph Tisdell shares the invisible challenges that 644 00:34:26,439 --> 00:34:37,239 Speaker 1: come with being a First Nations comedian. So you do 645 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 1: that writing you are on screen. I imagine that you 646 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:48,599 Speaker 1: audition and have to deal with rejection. Yes, how do 647 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 1: you cope with that? 648 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,319 Speaker 2: That's a good question. I probably don't audition as much 649 00:34:53,319 --> 00:34:57,879 Speaker 2: as they should. I probably am more interested in auditioning 650 00:34:57,879 --> 00:35:00,879 Speaker 2: for roles I think I'll get that's not good. I 651 00:35:00,879 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 2: don't like that. I need to be more open for 652 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,360 Speaker 2: a whole bunch of things. But I think I actually 653 00:35:05,359 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 2: deal with it pretty well. It's surprising because rejection is 654 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 2: something that I'm very afraid of. When it comes to 655 00:35:10,279 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 2: to a professional rejection, I'll just do shit like refuse 656 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 2: to watch the show. 657 00:35:15,959 --> 00:35:19,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, hetty nice, Yeah, but only to myself. 658 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,439 Speaker 1: Like yeah, yeah, yeah, oh that's a good idea. And 659 00:35:23,479 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 1: you'd also be tempted to watch it and then just 660 00:35:25,279 --> 00:35:26,799 Speaker 1: pick apart the person to get the roles. 661 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 2: I was like, that could have been wow, ruined that character. 662 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: Would the people in your life think that you're happy 663 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:40,439 Speaker 1: right now? 664 00:35:40,839 --> 00:35:42,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, it might be that I've been in a long time. 665 00:35:43,359 --> 00:35:44,399 Speaker 3: I'm not happy. 666 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 2: I think the more happy you get, the more that 667 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:48,999 Speaker 2: you have to realize how I'm happy You've been for a. 668 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,519 Speaker 3: Very long time, which is harrowing, you know what I mean. 669 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 3: It's like, I'm. 670 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,959 Speaker 2: Probably the most stable I've been for a long time, 671 00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:00,359 Speaker 2: which means I'm the most I'm the least happy. I 672 00:36:00,399 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 2: have a huge capacity for moments of pure joy and wonderment. 673 00:36:04,479 --> 00:36:08,359 Speaker 2: I'm aimlessly curious and spontaneous, and in moments I can 674 00:36:08,399 --> 00:36:11,879 Speaker 2: be blissfully happy. My big thing that I'm trying to 675 00:36:11,879 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 2: do at the moment is to stop distracting myself and 676 00:36:14,759 --> 00:36:18,159 Speaker 2: leaning into the feeling of boredom too much, because that's 677 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:18,839 Speaker 2: all distraction. 678 00:36:19,919 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: How do you do that with technology? It's like, honestly, 679 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,359 Speaker 1: it's such a big challenge, and I know my life 680 00:36:26,359 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: would be better if I was able to do that. 681 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:34,039 Speaker 1: And boredom equals creativity, and I know that TikTok so far. 682 00:36:34,359 --> 00:36:34,519 Speaker 3: I know. 683 00:36:34,799 --> 00:36:35,079 Speaker 2: I know. 684 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 3: I gave all my socials to my management. 685 00:36:37,359 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 1: Oh such a good idea. 686 00:36:38,839 --> 00:36:41,039 Speaker 3: I mean, I do still go on them only to check. 687 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 2: I don't write anything anymore because I just it's like 688 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:45,359 Speaker 2: it's just false, it's inauthentic. 689 00:36:45,359 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 3: I fucking hate it. 690 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think what I'm trying to work towards is 691 00:36:50,359 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 2: I can always have moments of like absolute insane happiness 692 00:36:54,759 --> 00:36:58,559 Speaker 2: because that's who I am, but it's very inconsistent, and 693 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 2: it's very unstable, and the drops are so so dark 694 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 2: that for now my happyes aren't as happy. 695 00:37:06,399 --> 00:37:08,959 Speaker 3: But my sad's arena sad, you know what I mean. 696 00:37:09,439 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 2: And I'm moving more towards stability and normal attachments, not weird, 697 00:37:14,439 --> 00:37:16,959 Speaker 2: anxious attachments that make me fuck up every relationship that 698 00:37:16,959 --> 00:37:20,879 Speaker 2: ever comes my way, and working on my health. I've 699 00:37:20,919 --> 00:37:24,239 Speaker 2: lost twenty two kilos and weirdly, my undies keep on 700 00:37:24,279 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 2: falling down, which is the weirdest thing to happen, because 701 00:37:27,439 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 2: it's really odd to just have your knickers falling down 702 00:37:30,359 --> 00:37:33,399 Speaker 2: under your pants. But anyway, I'm working on my health 703 00:37:33,399 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 2: and my mental health and I don't know if I'm happy, 704 00:37:36,759 --> 00:37:39,399 Speaker 2: but I'm working on it. 705 00:37:40,279 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 1: And when you think about the rest of your life, 706 00:37:44,279 --> 00:37:47,919 Speaker 1: is there anything you think about that you're like, I 707 00:37:47,959 --> 00:37:52,039 Speaker 1: want that thing in order to be happy, or if 708 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,479 Speaker 1: I didn't have that thing, I don't know if I 709 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: could be happy. 710 00:37:55,799 --> 00:38:00,320 Speaker 2: Money and children. I'm really broke. I suck at money. 711 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 2: I probably don't need to be broke. I just have 712 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 2: no ability to not buy whatever the fuck is in 713 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 2: front of you, Like, do you know how many random 714 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 2: like poop pens. 715 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:11,360 Speaker 3: I've bought just like things where. 716 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 2: You just like clicking and then I lose them the 717 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,319 Speaker 2: next day and I go, that was eighteen dollars. You know, 718 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,279 Speaker 2: I've got a lot of random shit, So money, or 719 00:38:18,279 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 2: at least managing my money better, would take a huge 720 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:24,120 Speaker 2: amount of stress off my shoulders. I would love to 721 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:28,279 Speaker 2: have children. I don't think I can handle children. I 722 00:38:28,279 --> 00:38:33,080 Speaker 2: think I decided I didn't want children after I realized 723 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,479 Speaker 2: how much I was pushing to have children with a 724 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 2: very bad man, and I thought, oh my god, I'm 725 00:38:40,279 --> 00:38:44,840 Speaker 2: incredibly selfish because I would have made that kid's life 726 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:49,559 Speaker 2: awful for the sake of me having a closeness with 727 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:55,200 Speaker 2: another human being. I love nurturing, and I think I 728 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:59,639 Speaker 2: would be a good mum, but I would have done 729 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 2: that to a child just for me to fulfill this 730 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:02,119 Speaker 2: need to. 731 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:02,839 Speaker 3: Be a mum. 732 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 2: The reality is I haven't got the skills or the ability, 733 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 2: or the time or the mental bandwidth to have a child. 734 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,839 Speaker 2: And maybe one day I will, that's the thing. But 735 00:39:15,399 --> 00:39:21,719 Speaker 2: I'm also always single, and you know, so yeah, I 736 00:39:21,759 --> 00:39:23,439 Speaker 2: don't know. I would love to have kids. I don't 737 00:39:23,439 --> 00:39:24,919 Speaker 2: know if it would make me any happier or not. 738 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,360 Speaker 2: I play Auntie to a lot of different kids. Yeah, 739 00:39:28,399 --> 00:39:30,839 Speaker 2: and better money management. 740 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:37,839 Speaker 1: You have talked about therapy and what are kind of 741 00:39:37,879 --> 00:39:41,319 Speaker 1: some of the tools and skills that you've learnt about 742 00:39:41,359 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 1: managing mental health over some of these really really challenging times. 743 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:49,439 Speaker 3: This is my biggest problem. 744 00:39:49,799 --> 00:39:54,160 Speaker 2: I am super self aware and I know what the 745 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,439 Speaker 2: work is, and I don't really do it. I still 746 00:39:57,439 --> 00:39:59,839 Speaker 2: don't know how the fuck to sit with the heart emotion. 747 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,159 Speaker 3: No, I actually. 748 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,960 Speaker 2: I actually just don't fully understand it. I let myself 749 00:40:05,959 --> 00:40:08,799 Speaker 2: more and more. I think there's a problem with being 750 00:40:08,839 --> 00:40:13,040 Speaker 2: too aware. I think it can be I'm a ruminator and. 751 00:40:13,479 --> 00:40:14,639 Speaker 3: UBERNUTA that sounds like. 752 00:40:18,319 --> 00:40:21,279 Speaker 2: I actually think that CBT is something I need to 753 00:40:21,279 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 2: move away from. 754 00:40:22,319 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 1: Okay, I have a theory about this because I wonder 755 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:29,839 Speaker 1: if it does sound like it would be. Because you're smart, 756 00:40:29,919 --> 00:40:34,559 Speaker 1: intellectual problem solving thinking a lot, you actually know that 757 00:40:34,759 --> 00:40:37,559 Speaker 1: your problem isn't that you don't know what you should 758 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:42,200 Speaker 1: be doing, what your issues are, what logical fallacies you're using. 759 00:40:42,879 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 1: That's not the problem. The problem is like an emotional shift. 760 00:40:46,759 --> 00:40:48,640 Speaker 1: It's like you know what you're meant to think in 761 00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,559 Speaker 1: order to feel differently, but you're not feeling any different. Yes, 762 00:40:52,759 --> 00:40:54,839 Speaker 1: I think that's a different kind of therapy. 763 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,440 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, well I've been addressing that recently, 764 00:40:57,479 --> 00:41:00,480 Speaker 2: Like I switched to what's called body psychotherapy. 765 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,719 Speaker 3: Oh yeah yeah, body psycho therapy be heard of. 766 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,599 Speaker 1: That something I've apparently something that's meant to be good 767 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:06,719 Speaker 1: for that is schemer therapy. 768 00:41:06,919 --> 00:41:08,319 Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, I've done that too. 769 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:10,160 Speaker 1: Did that do anything? 770 00:41:10,279 --> 00:41:11,960 Speaker 2: I did it with a hypnotist. It was the fucking 771 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,839 Speaker 2: wildest shit I've ever done. Man. Wi I like went 772 00:41:14,879 --> 00:41:16,879 Speaker 2: to like a childlike state. And remember when I got 773 00:41:16,919 --> 00:41:19,559 Speaker 2: mauled by a dog and im I didn't know And 774 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,959 Speaker 2: then afterwards I was like, adorable, STEP's been hormatized way 775 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:25,360 Speaker 2: because I was in that, I was in the session 776 00:41:25,919 --> 00:41:27,239 Speaker 2: and she was like, and when was the last time 777 00:41:27,279 --> 00:41:28,480 Speaker 2: you feeling out of control? 778 00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:30,359 Speaker 3: And then I was just like I killed him and 779 00:41:30,359 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 3: she was like sorry what. 780 00:41:31,759 --> 00:41:35,200 Speaker 2: I was like, he's dead and it's myself and she went, okay, Steph, 781 00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:35,919 Speaker 2: let's talk about this. 782 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:37,320 Speaker 1: That's a great opening to a novel. 783 00:41:37,439 --> 00:41:40,399 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And what do you know? 784 00:41:40,439 --> 00:41:42,439 Speaker 2: What I was talking about was that the dog had 785 00:41:42,479 --> 00:41:44,719 Speaker 2: to be put down after it attacked me and I 786 00:41:44,799 --> 00:41:48,399 Speaker 2: was three, and I've never let the guilt go. My god, 787 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,200 Speaker 2: I honestly regressed back to a child and I was like, 788 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 2: it's all my fault. 789 00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:54,919 Speaker 3: He's dead, and like I was like, where the fuck 790 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:55,999 Speaker 3: did this leaves? 791 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:57,400 Speaker 1: Like I don't know if it was helpful. 792 00:41:57,959 --> 00:42:00,319 Speaker 2: I don't think I've thought about this dog bawling in 793 00:42:00,759 --> 00:42:04,079 Speaker 2: like twenty years, and all of a sudden, I can't 794 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,719 Speaker 2: stop crying and grieving for that dog was in fault. 795 00:42:07,799 --> 00:42:11,520 Speaker 2: He was abused. You know, it bit me by my face. 796 00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,239 Speaker 2: I got I was going to have to get like 797 00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 2: plastic surgery, and then they said we have to put 798 00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:20,319 Speaker 2: them down. 799 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,520 Speaker 1: They didn't need to tell you that that You didn't 800 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:24,960 Speaker 1: need to know that as a child. 801 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:34,919 Speaker 2: But it's traumatized me like plenty, So yes, so that didn't. No, 802 00:42:35,319 --> 00:42:40,119 Speaker 2: I think exercise has been really good for me. Well, 803 00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,599 Speaker 2: I've got big titties and lots of fat, so I'm 804 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,239 Speaker 2: always in pain in my back, so swimming is really 805 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:51,600 Speaker 2: good for me. I'm actually as of Saturday and running 806 00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:52,719 Speaker 2: training with my brother. 807 00:42:53,319 --> 00:42:54,879 Speaker 1: Wow, that's meant to be a really good for you 808 00:42:54,919 --> 00:42:55,399 Speaker 1: mental heality. 809 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,639 Speaker 2: Yes, and that's that's what he says too. So we're 810 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,439 Speaker 2: I'm not looking forward to it, but it'll be good. 811 00:43:03,439 --> 00:43:06,320 Speaker 2: I do have a terrible way of escaping my ship 812 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:12,239 Speaker 2: by canceling others, terrify others, but then they therapized me. 813 00:43:12,879 --> 00:43:16,559 Speaker 2: So I lean into some really beautiful friendships that I've 814 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:21,839 Speaker 2: got where we've built them around recognizing that we're overly 815 00:43:21,879 --> 00:43:23,400 Speaker 2: aware and under acting. 816 00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:26,160 Speaker 3: So yeah, those are my main tools. 817 00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:30,239 Speaker 2: Is being aware of when I'm distracting myself, like I 818 00:43:30,279 --> 00:43:33,679 Speaker 2: recognize when I'm binging. I've been binging for the last 819 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 2: few days because I've been really nervous about the book, 820 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:41,479 Speaker 2: and I'm forgiving myself for that and being aware of 821 00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,239 Speaker 2: what expectations I have on myself and which one's a 822 00:43:44,279 --> 00:43:46,239 Speaker 2: true and genuine and fair and not fair. 823 00:43:46,799 --> 00:43:49,560 Speaker 3: So yeah, it's that shit. 824 00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:53,040 Speaker 2: I don't know how the fuck you get to loving myself, 825 00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:57,719 Speaker 2: but right now, forgiving myself or accepting myself is good. 826 00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:02,200 Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for your vulnerability today. That 827 00:44:02,359 --> 00:44:09,039 Speaker 1: was such a moving conversation. That's all We've got time 828 00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:13,000 Speaker 1: for on today's episode of That Are You Happy? Steph 829 00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:17,160 Speaker 1: Tisdell's novel The Skin I'm In is out now and 830 00:44:17,279 --> 00:44:21,480 Speaker 1: I cannot recommend it enough It's a really, really beautiful 831 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:26,440 Speaker 1: story told with her humor and warmth about a girl 832 00:44:26,479 --> 00:44:31,199 Speaker 1: in year twelve who's navigating cultural expectations and the complexities 833 00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,200 Speaker 1: of high school. We will pop a link to buy 834 00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,719 Speaker 1: the book in the show notes. This conversation was probably 835 00:44:38,279 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 1: one of the most vivid depictions that I've heard on 836 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:49,359 Speaker 1: this show about how a person can appear and what 837 00:44:49,439 --> 00:44:55,719 Speaker 1: they are actually experiencing. So Steph was so honest about 838 00:44:55,919 --> 00:44:59,640 Speaker 1: what was going on in her life behind closed doors 839 00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:03,959 Speaker 1: when things looked really, really joyous from the outside. And 840 00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:09,279 Speaker 1: I think that honesty is such a gift. And there 841 00:45:09,319 --> 00:45:13,280 Speaker 1: were so many parts of this chat that really struck 842 00:45:13,279 --> 00:45:16,279 Speaker 1: a chord with me, and we're incredibly honest. The way 843 00:45:16,319 --> 00:45:20,479 Speaker 1: Steph talked about experiencing an abusive relationship, the way she 844 00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:25,919 Speaker 1: talked about her confidence being eroded, and how having extreme 845 00:45:26,439 --> 00:45:31,200 Speaker 1: empathy and being a really kind person can be capitalized 846 00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,559 Speaker 1: on by the wrong people, And I think it's really 847 00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:38,440 Speaker 1: a gift for her to share that vulnerability with us. 848 00:45:41,359 --> 00:45:44,439 Speaker 1: If there's anyone you know who you feel might really 849 00:45:44,479 --> 00:45:48,039 Speaker 1: get something out of this episode, please share it with them. 850 00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:51,200 Speaker 1: And if you want to recommend any guests for the show, 851 00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,719 Speaker 1: you can always get in touch with me on Instagram. 852 00:45:55,399 --> 00:45:58,279 Speaker 1: And if you like the show, please leave us a review. 853 00:45:58,279 --> 00:46:01,039 Speaker 1: It helps people to find us and to listen to 854 00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:06,600 Speaker 1: more of these really insightful conversations. The executive producer of 855 00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,479 Speaker 1: That Are You Happy is Naima Brown and the producer 856 00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:13,399 Speaker 1: is Charlie Blackman. Audio editing by Scott Stronik And I'm 857 00:46:13,439 --> 00:46:15,959 Speaker 1: your host, Claire Stevens, and we'll see you next week