Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mea podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges
Speaker 1: the traditional owners of the land and waters. This podcast
Speaker 1: is recorded on. This episode deals with suicidal idiation. Listener
Speaker 1: discretion is advised.
Speaker 2: AH.
Speaker 1: Trust It's the pillar of any relationship, romantic or not. Well,
Speaker 1: that's what Indy believes. She also thinks there's no reason
Speaker 1: not to give it out when you first meet someone.
Speaker 3: I've always been a big believer that trust is there
Speaker 3: until it's broken, and that's what I feel like it
Speaker 3: was with James. I had no reason not to trust him.
Speaker 3: Every person that I spoke to about him always spoke
Speaker 3: so highly of him and had nothing but positive things
Speaker 3: to say about him. Or he was really friendly, charismatic,
Speaker 3: and so yeah, I just saw, like all tics.
Speaker 1: Others might disagree, arguing trust should be earned, that Indie
Speaker 1: reckons is just going into life with a negative attitude.
Speaker 1: Nobody's got time for that. So what could possibly happen
Speaker 1: to make someone with her positive shiny outlook to a
Speaker 1: complete one eighty?
Speaker 3: I was so angry. I didn't feel sorry for him anymore.
Speaker 3: I didn't feel sad for him anymore. I was furious
Speaker 3: he was in a really awful situation. But I had
Speaker 3: to put myself first because I couldn't keep getting lied
Speaker 3: to again and again.
Speaker 1: I'm Georgia Love and this is everyone has an ex
Speaker 1: Come with me as we dive into a collection of
Speaker 1: unconventional stories about relationships past through the eyes and the
Speaker 1: hearts of the very people who live them. Today's story starts,
Speaker 1: as so many do, through Instagram. Indian knew of James,
Speaker 1: but didn't really know him until the old DM s i'd.
Speaker 3: One of my mutual friends said to James, you should
Speaker 3: follow India on Instagram, and so then he followed me
Speaker 3: on Instagram and every now and then he'd do like
Speaker 3: a little fire emoji, but nothing kind of came from it.
Speaker 3: And then he messaged me one day and he was like,
Speaker 3: let's catch up, but nothing came of that. And then
Speaker 3: we went into COVID lockdown, so we'll message each other
Speaker 3: a bit back and forth, and still nothing. And then
Speaker 3: once lockdown finished, then he messaged me and he basically said,
Speaker 3: now lockdown's finished, do you want to go on that date?
Speaker 1: So they did.
Speaker 3: It was an amazing first date, like it was honestly
Speaker 3: perfect from start to finish, and we went to a
Speaker 3: really nice Asian fusion restaurant. And do you know how
Speaker 3: sometimes in those restaurants, like the tables are really close together,
Speaker 3: but ours was completely separate away from everyone else, and
Speaker 3: it was like flowing conversation the whole time. And yeah,
Speaker 3: it was just a really, really nice first date. And
Speaker 3: he was very smooth, like he went to the toilet
Speaker 3: and then he snuck up and he went and paid.
Speaker 3: And the drive home, actually I dropped him home in
Speaker 3: the uber and we had to wear masks back then,
Speaker 3: and so then we kind of awkwardly looked at one
Speaker 3: another and pulled our masks down and kissed each other
Speaker 3: in the uber, and then he went inside. And yeah,
Speaker 3: the next day, I was eagerly like waiting by my
Speaker 3: phone hoping that he would message me, and yeah, he
Speaker 3: messaged me, and he wanted to go on another date,
Speaker 3: and so we saw each other a few days later,
Speaker 3: and it just continued. He was two years older than
Speaker 3: me and my dating history. I had been single for
Speaker 3: a few years at that stage because we were from
Speaker 3: the same area. Every person that I spoke to about
Speaker 3: him always spoke so highly of him and had nothing
Speaker 3: but positive things to say about him. He was really friendly, charismatic,
Speaker 3: and so yeah, I just saw like all ticks. He
Speaker 3: was amazing, Like he was really caring, he was thoughtful,
Speaker 3: he was kind, he made me love so much, and yeah,
Speaker 3: I just really cherished all those those few weeks. And
Speaker 3: then it got to I think about the three week mark,
Speaker 3: and he just said, I'm telling everyone that you're my girlfriend.
Speaker 3: And he had never had a girlfriend before either, so
Speaker 3: I was his first day of a girlfriend, which I
Speaker 3: thought was a little bit of a red flag, but
Speaker 3: it ended up being fine. He was an amazing boyfriend.
Speaker 3: We spent so much time together we ended up going
Speaker 3: into lockdown, and so because we were in lockdown, and
Speaker 3: then that forced us to spend even more time with
Speaker 3: one another. So we were in lockdown, but we were
Speaker 3: still trying to make things fun, like we would have
Speaker 3: a Mexican night, make spicy margaritas for one another. And
Speaker 3: I remember one of the first I think it was
Speaker 3: like the third date, he actually bought ingredients and came
Speaker 3: over to my apartment and cooked for me, which I
Speaker 3: just thought was so romantic. And he really wanted me
Speaker 3: to meet his family really quick into the relationship as well,
Speaker 3: which I also thought I had never really experienced that before.
Speaker 3: I thought that that was really like lovely of him.
Speaker 3: And he just seemed like he was really proud of
Speaker 3: me and proud to introduce me to all of his
Speaker 3: close friends and family. He had a lot of friends.
Speaker 3: He was a really friendly person. He was just so thoughtful.
Speaker 3: There was just so many like thoughtful aspects to him.
Speaker 3: And he made me laugh all the time, like we
Speaker 3: would just be laughing, and yeah, he just seemed like
Speaker 3: a really really good person. So from all my family,
Speaker 3: compared to all of my previous ex's, they were like,
Speaker 3: James is amazing. He seems like such a good guy.
Speaker 3: And so I was reassured from all of my friends
Speaker 3: and family around me as well.
Speaker 1: The relationship was good, easy and fun, and soon they
Speaker 1: were to take the next step.
Speaker 3: I had my own apartment, so I purchased my own place,
Speaker 3: and he was living in a sharehouse. So a lot
Speaker 3: of the time he would come over to my place
Speaker 3: and stay at mine because we had our own space there.
Speaker 3: And then he spoke about wanting to move out of
Speaker 3: his sharehouse and possibly move into his investment property. He
Speaker 3: had an investment property that was a few suburbs away
Speaker 3: from mine, and so then because we were spending I
Speaker 3: guess five out of seven nights with each other a week,
Speaker 3: I kind of just said, why don't you just move
Speaker 3: in here? And he did so he moved into my
Speaker 3: apartment and lived with me after six months, and I
Speaker 3: guess some people thought that that was a bit quick,
Speaker 3: but it just felt natural and it felt right, and
Speaker 3: it was lovely living together. We had our routine, we
Speaker 3: would go to the market every week and we would
Speaker 3: cook for one another, and we lived really well together.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it was all really positive from then. And
Speaker 3: we had some discussions about rent and him paying me rent,
Speaker 3: and he said to me he had quite a few fines,
Speaker 3: and so I said to him, that's fine. How about
Speaker 3: you pay me fifty dollars less each week in rent
Speaker 3: until you pay off all of your fines and then
Speaker 3: you can pay what he originally wanted to pay me
Speaker 3: once that's all sorted. And so he was really appreciative
Speaker 3: of that, and so that's what we did. However, when
Speaker 3: it came to him paying me at times, he just
Speaker 3: wouldn't and so it would be he'd get paid once
Speaker 3: a week, and we agreed he would just pay me
Speaker 3: weekly and then we'd split everything fifty to fifty for bills.
Speaker 3: And the first week, I remember, I just I got
Speaker 3: no money in my account. And I always feel so
Speaker 3: uncomfortable talking about money and having to follow people up
Speaker 3: for money, and so I think I messaged my sisters
Speaker 3: and I was like, I don't know what to do,
Speaker 3: and they were like, just give it like another week
Speaker 3: and steal nothing. So then I asked and he's like,
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry, and he'd transfer the money straight away.
Speaker 3: He was mortified and he apologized and he's like, I'm
Speaker 3: so sorry. He completely slipped my mind and he transferred
Speaker 3: it to me straight away. And then that kind of
Speaker 3: pattern just kept continuing, and then it kind of got
Speaker 3: to a stage where I would just bring it up
Speaker 3: and I would ask him and I'd say, where's the
Speaker 3: money in a nice way, and he would transfer it
Speaker 3: through to me. And I thought that it was a
Speaker 3: bit odd that he wouldn't transfer it, but then I
Speaker 3: would ask and then it would go in instantly. And
Speaker 3: then there would be times where he would say something
Speaker 3: to me, so he'd say, oh, do you mind if
Speaker 3: I don't pay this week because I have the owner's
Speaker 3: corp fee that I need to pay for my investment property,
Speaker 3: and I was like, that's so fine, you can just
Speaker 3: pay two weeks next week, and so little things like
Speaker 3: that would come up.
Speaker 1: Okay, so this wasn't great, but he would pay immediately
Speaker 1: every time, and he reminded him he hadn't. Maybe he
Speaker 1: was just a little forgetful or had his priority is
Speaker 1: a bit skewed.
Speaker 3: He was quite generous, and that's one of the thing
Speaker 3: that my friends all said that James would always go
Speaker 3: and buy them drinks, and yeah, be very generous with
Speaker 3: his money, but he was probably not spending his money
Speaker 3: in the best way that he should have been. And
Speaker 3: you know, they'd be times where he wouldn't pay for rent,
Speaker 3: but then he'd walk in. I still remember this so clearly.
Speaker 3: He walked in and he had all of these shopping
Speaker 3: bags and I looked in. I was like, what is
Speaker 3: that and he's like, oh, look, I bought myself and you, Tommy,
Speaker 3: he'll figure shirt and I bought myself this, And I
Speaker 3: just said, you owe me like three weeks worth of rent.
Speaker 3: Why don't you pay me that before you go off
Speaker 3: and buy yourself things that are not necessary. But anytime
Speaker 3: i'd have that conversation, then the money would just get
Speaker 3: transferred straight away. He would be mortified and he would apologize.
Speaker 3: He'd seem slightly embarrassed, but he just yeah, he would
Speaker 3: say sorry. Sometimes he would say that there was a
Speaker 3: bill that he'd have to pay for his investment property
Speaker 3: and that was the reason. So he just didn't like
Speaker 3: communicating about anything to do with money, and I didn't either.
Speaker 3: It's an awkward, uncomfortable topic. We never thought about anything,
Speaker 3: and so I feel like we had a very healthy relationship.
Speaker 3: But the only real issue was that he was quite
Speaker 3: lax when it came to paying rent on time. He's
Speaker 3: the type of person's like ignorance is bliss out of sight,
Speaker 3: out of mind, and he just wouldn't have an open
Speaker 3: conversation about those sorts of things.
Speaker 1: Apart from the huge number of fines James had, money
Speaker 1: wasn't actually an issue. They'd been together two years at
Speaker 1: this point. They both owned properties and had full time jobs.
Speaker 1: But James had lived in a sharehouse before and had
Speaker 1: never had a girlfriend, let alone lived with one, so
Speaker 1: Indy wasn't concerned. She just realized he might have some
Speaker 1: growing up to do. There was nothing of real concern. Yet.
Speaker 3: One day I was at home and he was out
Speaker 3: and I was looking for a pair of headphones, and
Speaker 3: so I went into his work bag and I was
Speaker 3: looking through and I saw a debt letter and so
Speaker 3: I just pulled it out. It looked like a fine.
Speaker 3: I was like, here we go again, another fine, because
Speaker 3: he had had so many fines. And I pulled it
Speaker 3: out and it was his name, our address, and it
Speaker 3: was a fine for ninety thousand dollars. And I just
Speaker 3: put it back and hit it and then I was
Speaker 3: in disbelief. I was kind of like, what did I
Speaker 3: just see? And then I went back to it because
Speaker 3: I'm like, surely I did not see that correctly, and
Speaker 3: I pulled it out and yeah, it was for around
Speaker 3: eighty nine thousand dollars. And when he came home, I
Speaker 3: just said, James, I was not snooping. I was looking
Speaker 3: for headphones and I saw this debt letter in your bag.
Speaker 3: I'm really concerned and I want to help you. Please
Speaker 3: tell me what's going on. And he looked at me
Speaker 3: so calmly, and he just said, oh, it's all good.
Speaker 3: The bank made a mistake. And I'm like what, And
Speaker 3: he's like, the bank made a mistake. I've got a
Speaker 3: letter work that retracts that debt letter that they sent me.
Speaker 3: I just said, the bank does not make a mistake
Speaker 3: like that. He was like, no, I'm telling you the truth.
Speaker 3: The bank made a mistake, and when I go to
Speaker 3: work tomorrow, I'll send you the letter. And we got
Speaker 3: into quite a big argument, and I ended up just
Speaker 3: getting my stuff and leaving. I went and spent the
Speaker 3: afternoon with my friends, but I did not discuss it
Speaker 3: with them, And then I came home and I just
Speaker 3: said to him, you have one opportunity to tell me
Speaker 3: the truth. Tell me what is going on. Eventually I
Speaker 3: got it out of him that he just stopped paying
Speaker 3: his mortgage repayments on his investment property and the bank
Speaker 3: took possession of it and sold it for less than
Speaker 3: what was worth, which is how he ended up with
Speaker 3: that ninety thousand dollars debt. I was so upset because
Speaker 3: I would have helped him. If he had said to me,
Speaker 3: I'm struggling with these mortgage repayments. I would have helped
Speaker 3: him pay half, or I would have not made him
Speaker 3: pay rent to live with me so he could focus
Speaker 3: on that. But it's the fact that he just completely
Speaker 3: hit it and didn't speak to me about it. It
Speaker 3: was kind of our light like because we were planning
Speaker 3: on buying house together and things like that, and so
Speaker 3: then with that big debt that was going to impact
Speaker 3: us like going forward, we weren't going to be able
Speaker 3: to buy a house together or anything like that. When
Speaker 3: he told me, he actually didn't have much emotion at all,
Speaker 3: and I guess it was the other way around. I
Speaker 3: wouldn't be able to cope. I don't even cope having
Speaker 3: like a few hundred dollars on my credit card, let
Speaker 3: alone losing a property and then having this massive ninety
Speaker 3: thousand dollars damp. It was months that he had just
Speaker 3: been living, and he'd been living this lie, and he
Speaker 3: showed no stress the way that he was living. I
Speaker 3: did not pick up at all that he was going
Speaker 3: through this massive obstacle in his life. He went to bed,
Speaker 3: he slept like normal, and Yeah, there was just no
Speaker 3: signs to pick up that he was dealing with this.
Speaker 3: And I felt sad for him as well. I felt
Speaker 3: sad that he dealt with that on his own. I
Speaker 3: was a mixed bag of feelings, So I guess at
Speaker 3: the start, yeah, I was in disbelief and then I
Speaker 3: was sad because I just knew that this would impact
Speaker 3: us years on. And so like I would go to
Speaker 3: work and I would drive in the car and i'd
Speaker 3: cry in the car, and then i'd get out and
Speaker 3: I'd like have my day of work, and then I
Speaker 3: would get home and I'd cry again. But it was
Speaker 3: all right. And then I went through a bit of
Speaker 3: anger and I got really angry with him and we'd
Speaker 3: get into arguments about it. But I feel like it
Speaker 3: was just because I wish he had have come to me.
Speaker 3: And I guess in a relationship, you are vulnerable and
Speaker 3: you tell your partner everything. And the fact that he
Speaker 3: was not willing to share that with me or allow
Speaker 3: me in that was quite hurtful as well. He actually
Speaker 3: asked me to not tell anyone. He didn't want me
Speaker 3: to share it with anyone, and he was really adamant, like,
Speaker 3: do not tell anyone about this. Yeah, I didn't want
Speaker 3: him to have that shame. When I found out that
Speaker 3: he'd lost the property, we actually went to see a counselor,
Speaker 3: and we went to a few counseling sessions, and the
Speaker 3: counselor actually said, you guys don't need to come anymore,
Speaker 3: and he was like, I see different couples all the time,
Speaker 3: and he was like, I sometimes think to myself, like,
Speaker 3: why are you even trying to fix this? You guys
Speaker 3: just need to break up. But he goes, I don't
Speaker 3: see that with you. You guys don't have anything else
Speaker 3: to work on. And I felt really confident in that.
Speaker 3: I really tried to push him into declaring bankruptcy because
Speaker 3: I just thought he could wipe it. It would be
Speaker 3: three years, but with declaring bankruptcy, you can't leave the country,
Speaker 3: and we had a big Europe trip planned and so
Speaker 3: he did not want to miss out on the Europe trip.
Speaker 3: He said that he would be able to afford it,
Speaker 3: and that he had already paid off most of the
Speaker 3: Europe trip, and so he was like, no, let's just
Speaker 3: do this dead agreement. I'll pay back a part of it.
Speaker 3: And then I was like, why didn't we move back
Speaker 3: to my parents? So I packed up my whole apartment,
Speaker 3: I packed up everything in that apartment, and we moved
Speaker 3: back to my parents and lived with my parents, just
Speaker 3: to try and save a bit more money. And I
Speaker 3: guess in relationships, you have to make sacrifices. And I
Speaker 3: was willing to make that sacrifice for him so he
Speaker 3: could still go to Europe and have the trip that
Speaker 3: we had been looking forward to for so long. I
Speaker 3: remember I was laying on the balcony like the night
Speaker 3: before we packed up, and I was laying in his lap,
Speaker 3: just crying because I did not want to move out,
Speaker 3: but I was still willing to do that for him.
Speaker 1: I feel like most people would agree going to Europe
Speaker 1: with a ninety thousand dollar debt to your name, it's
Speaker 1: not the wisest decision. Indeed, very much agreed, but James
Speaker 1: was an adult. The decision was his.
Speaker 3: I just thought that he needed to stay at home,
Speaker 3: needed to sort his finances out, and he really convinced
Speaker 3: me that he would be able to sort everything out.
Speaker 3: We sat down and we did a financial plan together,
Speaker 3: and we tried to do budgeting, and we created all
Speaker 3: different you know, the barefoot investor. We created all these
Speaker 3: different accounts for him so he could save for Europe.
Speaker 3: And I was convinced that he would be able to
Speaker 3: stick to that and he'd be able to afford it.
Speaker 3: He was a thirty one year old man that had
Speaker 3: an investment property, had a stable job and a stable income.
Speaker 3: And I just thought that it was up to him
Speaker 3: to make that grown up decision himself, and I was
Speaker 3: I was really looking forward to going. We had such
Speaker 3: an amazing trip booked and planned, and I did still
Speaker 3: want to go with him, but I just thought it
Speaker 3: would have been smarter for him to stay at home
Speaker 3: and deal with losing the property. And the other issue
Speaker 3: was is that he did not want to tell anyone
Speaker 3: in his life. He didn't want to tell his parents,
Speaker 3: he didn't want to tell any of his siblings, any
Speaker 3: of his friends, and I was really trying to encourage
Speaker 3: him to speak to them about it, but yeah, he's like, no,
Speaker 3: I don't want them to know. And I guess if
Speaker 3: he had a stayed home then that would have been
Speaker 3: alarm balles and they would have been wondering what was
Speaker 3: going on. So I think maybe that might have been
Speaker 3: another reason as well.
Speaker 1: So they moved in withind his parents, rented out her
Speaker 1: apartment to cover her mortgage, and saved as much as
Speaker 1: they could for six months before they jetted off on
Speaker 1: the trip of a lifetime.
Speaker 3: It was an amazing trip. We started off in Italy
Speaker 3: and he actually worked there for a bit, so he
Speaker 3: did a bit of work and yeah, we traveled all
Speaker 3: through Italy and then it got to Tuscany. We were
Speaker 3: in and he obviously doesn't have a credit card because
Speaker 3: he had a dead agreement, but he booked a higher
Speaker 3: car and they said you need to put a credit
Speaker 3: card down, and he's like, I don't have it. I
Speaker 3: tried to offer mine and they were like, no, the
Speaker 3: booking needs to be in your name if you're going
Speaker 3: to use your credit card. And then he offered up
Speaker 3: another option and he just said, look, you can put
Speaker 3: down five hundred euros off a debit card and then
Speaker 3: we will release that money when you return the car.
Speaker 3: And I just said, James, do that, that's fine, and
Speaker 3: he's like, I can't, and I'm like, what do you mean.
Speaker 3: He's like, I don't have five hundred euros. So he
Speaker 3: had come over to Europe with no money and he
Speaker 3: was relying on his weekly long service leave pay. That
Speaker 3: caused quite a few issues. I was really stressed and
Speaker 3: I said to him, how do you not have any
Speaker 3: money over here? Because if you get into an emergency,
Speaker 3: what are you going to do? And I wasn't going
Speaker 3: to be with him the whole time, so I said
Speaker 3: to him you know, when you're off traveling by yourself,
Speaker 3: if there is an emergency, message me and I will
Speaker 3: transfer your money if you need anything, and then we can't.
Speaker 3: I kind of didn't speak about it much after that,
Speaker 3: and he still was getting a weekly paid from his
Speaker 3: work from the long service leave salary, and then yeah,
Speaker 3: we traveled with other people, and so we were traveling
Speaker 3: all around Europe, and he kind of got into this
Speaker 3: awful cycle where he'd get paid and then he would
Speaker 3: spend all of his money and then it'll get to
Speaker 3: the end of the week and then he would rely
Speaker 3: on other people paying for him. So we would all
Speaker 3: take turns paying for dinners and things like that, and
Speaker 3: he would just never offer, and then it would get
Speaker 3: to his payday again and then he would pay everyone back,
Speaker 3: but then that meant that he was a few hundred
Speaker 3: dollars down. So it was just this cycle that he
Speaker 3: fell into throughout the whole trip. And then so we
Speaker 3: were actually over there as well for my thirtieth birthday,
Speaker 3: and so we were heading to our next destination for
Speaker 3: my birthday, and we were in an airport and it
Speaker 3: was like a layover, and I was sitting with my
Speaker 3: sisters and I saw him pacing around the airport and
Speaker 3: he was on the phone. He looked like he was crying.
Speaker 3: He was bright red, he was sweating bullets. And I
Speaker 3: was like to him, James, like what is going on?
Speaker 3: And you're okay? And he's like, it's fine. It's just
Speaker 3: a work thing. And I was like, you're on long
Speaker 3: service leave, like tell them to leave you alone. You
Speaker 3: don't need to be dealing with work things now. And
Speaker 3: he said, the payroll lady at work has gone away
Speaker 3: and I didn't get paid this week. And I was like,
Speaker 3: that can't happen. You can't just not get paid, Like
Speaker 3: message your boss right now and tell him that he
Speaker 3: needs to transfer you the money. And he's like, it's
Speaker 3: all good. I'll figure it out. And he walked off,
Speaker 3: and a few people that we were with or said
Speaker 3: is he okay? Like it does not look like it
Speaker 3: looks like something's going on, and he was adamant it
Speaker 3: was all fine. And then after that, he was drinking
Speaker 3: excessive amounts of alcohol when he really didn't need too,
Speaker 3: and I kept checking in on him and I just
Speaker 3: kept saying like, is everything okay? He saw he was
Speaker 3: like it's all fine, and then it got to my birthday,
Speaker 3: I had like the best day. There was thirteen of
Speaker 3: us that we were all together and we were on
Speaker 3: a boat and it was just such a lovely day.
Speaker 3: And then the day after, he said to me he'd
Speaker 3: organized something for my birthday, and I was like, I
Speaker 3: really don't want to do anything because I know that
Speaker 3: you're struggling financially, and so please just cancel whatever you've organized.
Speaker 3: And he said, no, it's all sorted like, we're still
Speaker 3: doing it. And so then as we were walking to
Speaker 3: what he had planned, he just broke down crying and
Speaker 3: he just said, I can't afford this, And so I
Speaker 3: paid for my own thirtieth birthday gift that he organized,
Speaker 3: which was at this beach club. And I felt so
Speaker 3: bad for him that I transferred him an extra few
Speaker 3: hundred dollars as well, because I knew that he was
Speaker 3: struggling with money and stuff over there too. I felt
Speaker 3: really bad for him. I just I could see that
Speaker 3: he was heartbroken, and it seemed like from his perspective,
Speaker 3: I just think that he thought he was letting me
Speaker 3: down for my birthday. And we still had a lovely day,
Speaker 3: and we kind of just didn't speak about it.
Speaker 1: This was exactly why India thought James going on this
Speaker 1: trip wasn't a good idea. But she was really caught
Speaker 1: between a rock and a hard place. They were already there,
Speaker 1: they were with a big group of friends, and she
Speaker 1: didn't want James to be embarrassed or feel like he
Speaker 1: wasn't good enough. Plus Indy's birthday was going to be
Speaker 1: the most expensive part and that was now behind them.
Speaker 1: He was still getting paid weekly while they were there,
Speaker 1: and as soon as they got home they were going
Speaker 1: to have some serious budgeting talks and get them both
Speaker 1: as a couple back on track.
Speaker 3: So then we get to Greece and we have an
Speaker 3: amazing time. And actually while we were in Greece, he said,
Speaker 3: let's start trying for kids. And I wanted to start
Speaker 3: a family so badly, and that was our plan that
Speaker 3: we were going to go to Europe, We're going to
Speaker 3: come home and we're going to save for another six
Speaker 3: months and then going to start trying. But he was like,
Speaker 3: let's just start now, and I was like, no, I
Speaker 3: don't think that's the right decision, Like, you need to
Speaker 3: sort your finances out. I need to save money as well.
Speaker 3: Babies are expensive we're not going to try now. I
Speaker 3: was still living with my parents and so we had
Speaker 3: planned to like come back, stay with them for a
Speaker 3: few more months and then move into a bigger property
Speaker 3: and then keep my place up for rant. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I just was like, it's not the right time to start.
Speaker 3: And that was something that I wanted so badly as
Speaker 3: well that it was like I was happy that he
Speaker 3: suggested it, but then I was like, no, like, I
Speaker 3: just don't think that it's the right time. We had
Speaker 3: gone engagement ring shopping, like he took me engagement ring
Speaker 3: shopping to try on different styles and figure out what
Speaker 3: I liked. And yeah, I just I thought I would
Speaker 3: have kids with him and I'd end up with him
Speaker 3: for the rest of my life. So yeah, I guess
Speaker 3: it was a bit like disheartening that we weren't at
Speaker 3: that stage. I knew we were get there eventually. So
Speaker 3: then I finish off our trip and the final island
Speaker 3: that we were going to, it was just James and
Speaker 3: I and we stayed at the most beautiful AIRBMB. It
Speaker 3: was so romantic and it was like at the very
Speaker 3: top of this hill and you could see the whole
Speaker 3: ocean and it had like this beautiful like infinity pool
Speaker 3: and we got there and at this stage he owed
Speaker 3: me quite a lot of money, and I just kind
Speaker 3: of gave up on asking. And then I had just
Speaker 3: paid quite a bit for the cod bikes and a
Speaker 3: few other things, and I said to him, can you
Speaker 3: just pay me a little bit of what you owe me?
Speaker 3: And he was like I can't, and I'm like why
Speaker 3: and he's like, because I got fired from work because
Speaker 3: I've been stealing money from them and they just found out.
Speaker 3: I just was in disbelief again. I was like, this
Speaker 3: cannot be happening. And so I actually just got my
Speaker 3: stuff and put my helmet on my cod bike and
Speaker 3: just drove off.
Speaker 2: I drove off, and I pulled to the side and
Speaker 2: I was just like hysterically crying because I just yeah,
Speaker 2: I was just like, surely not again.
Speaker 3: And so I called my sister and she was just
Speaker 3: in tears as well. On the phone. I was just like,
Speaker 3: this cannot.
Speaker 2: Be happening, and yeah, yeah, like an older Greek woman,
Speaker 2: she heard me crying on the side of the road
Speaker 2: and she came out to check on me. And then
Speaker 2: I composed myself and I think I was away from
Speaker 2: THEBB for about an hour, and then I went back
Speaker 2: and I just said to him, like, you need to
Speaker 2: tell me everything from start to finish, and yeah, he
Speaker 2: just said that over the space of two years, he'd
Speaker 2: stolen just under forty thousand dollars from them, and they
Speaker 2: had fired him and they were possibly going to press
Speaker 2: charges against him. And he found out when he was
Speaker 2: at the airport, and so he obviously received a call
Speaker 2: from his work asking him what was going on, and
Speaker 2: that was when it all kind of unfolded. And so
Speaker 2: he just kept saying that he didn't want to ruin
Speaker 2: the trip for me, and so that's why he didn't
Speaker 2: want me to find out until the very end.
Speaker 3: And he actually hadn't even planned on telling me. When
Speaker 3: he did, he Yeah, he just splitted it out and
Speaker 3: he just said, workers found out that I've been stealing
Speaker 3: from them and they fired me.
Speaker 1: Indy felt like she'd left her own life and was
Speaker 1: watching someone else's. This stuff didn't happen, not with someone
Speaker 1: she'd known, lived with and loved for three years. She
Speaker 1: had a million questions, but the most pressing one why.
Speaker 3: He just said that he got himself into a massive
Speaker 3: spiral and he just couldn't get out of it when
Speaker 3: he'd have I think he had quite a few fines
Speaker 3: that came from that debt of him losing the property
Speaker 3: and a few other debts. So then he would tap
Speaker 3: into some of that money and then he would use
Speaker 3: his salary to pay that back, but then something else
Speaker 3: would come up. And he just was not very responsible
Speaker 3: when it came to money either. Like he you know,
Speaker 3: saving you have to make sacrifices. You can't go out
Speaker 3: for dinner all the time, and you can't go off
Speaker 3: buying yourselves all these nice fancy things. But for him,
Speaker 3: there was no making sacrifices. It was he could just
Speaker 3: do everything in his mind. And then it made sense
Speaker 3: because whenever I'd say, James, like you owe me this,
Speaker 3: he would pay that money straight away, and it would
Speaker 3: have been because of that stolen money. So there was
Speaker 3: meant to be another week and we went home two
Speaker 3: days later. I was worried about him, and the first
Speaker 3: thing that I thought when I found out was that
Speaker 3: I just needed to get him home safely. So I
Speaker 3: changed our flights, so changed the fairies. We went home
Speaker 3: early the day after I actually took him out, and
Speaker 3: I tried to make it a fun day. We went
Speaker 3: to a few different beaches, and we went out for lunch,
Speaker 3: and we went out for dinner, and we just tried
Speaker 3: to enjoy the last day before we were going back
Speaker 3: home because I wanted to try and distract him. He
Speaker 3: was really struggling mentally as well, so he just was
Speaker 3: not in a good mental headspace. He did say he
Speaker 3: was going to take his own life, and he said
Speaker 3: that he'd thought about taking his own life a few times.
Speaker 3: Throughout that trip. It was like a lot and it
Speaker 3: was hard because it was like I was trying to
Speaker 3: process all of this, but then I was trying to
Speaker 3: be there to support him as well, and so yeah,
Speaker 3: I couldn't really process everything properly myself. And so the
Speaker 3: flights home they were tough, like it was a lot
Speaker 3: of tears and him trying to figure out, Okay, what's
Speaker 3: going to be my next career path. We got home
Speaker 3: and he went back to his parents and I went
Speaker 3: back to mine, and I wasn't going to break up
Speaker 3: with him, like I was still going to stay with
Speaker 3: him because I loved him, and I just kind of thought,
Speaker 3: you know, this is like a tough hurdle that we're
Speaker 3: facing but we're going to get through it. I just
Speaker 3: said that we needed some space because I was trying
Speaker 3: to process all of this. First, I was just trying
Speaker 3: to care about his welfare, and then I was like,
Speaker 3: I need to process this myself in my own space.
Speaker 3: Then I started slowly telling my friends what was going on.
Speaker 3: So I messaged a few of them and I just said,
Speaker 3: I'm letting you know I'm coming home early because this
Speaker 3: is a situation, and this is what's happened with James
Speaker 3: and the friends that we traveled with. Like one of
Speaker 3: my best friends, she was brought to tears by what
Speaker 3: had happened. She couldn't believe. And then my other friend,
Speaker 3: she was in America and she was like, I wanted
Speaker 3: to change my flight and come home early. So like,
Speaker 3: my friends were like so lovely and supportive through it all.
Speaker 3: And then my other friend that I was traveling with,
Speaker 3: I messaged her and I just said, look, I'm letting
Speaker 3: you know that me and James are on a break
Speaker 3: at the moment. He's had some real financial difficulties and
Speaker 3: he's basically been stealing from his work and they found
Speaker 3: out and they fired him and were trying to work
Speaker 3: through things and she messaged me back and she said, girl,
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry. I didn't know how to tell you this.
Speaker 3: But James messaged my boyfriend and asked to borrow money
Speaker 3: and he lent him money and he's not paid him back.
Speaker 3: He lent him ay one hundred dollars. My heart just
Speaker 3: sunk and I just said not again, because I just
Speaker 3: was like, it's just one thing after another, When is
Speaker 3: this ever going to end. One of the worst parts
Speaker 3: about it was is that he actually told us a story.
Speaker 3: So my friend's boyfriend told us a story where one
Speaker 3: of his friends asked to borrow some money and he
Speaker 3: just never paid him back. And he kind of was like,
Speaker 3: you know, I never got the money back, but it
Speaker 3: is what it is, like I still respect him and
Speaker 3: I still see him as a good friend. And so
Speaker 3: James messaged him and in the message, he said, because
Speaker 3: you told me about what had happened with your friend,
Speaker 3: I feel comfortable coming to you because you know I'm
Speaker 3: good for it. So he took his kindness for weakness.
Speaker 3: He lied about transferring the money. He said that he
Speaker 3: transferred it to him and then he waited a few
Speaker 3: days and got nothing, and then he said, can you
Speaker 3: please send me a bank transfer receipt to show that
Speaker 3: you've actually transferred this money, and he sent a fake
Speaker 3: bank transfer receipt. I was so angry. I didn't feel
Speaker 3: sorry for him anymore. I didn't feel sad for him anymore.
Speaker 3: I was I was furious. I was just like, you know,
Speaker 3: you've done all of this, You've led me on, and
Speaker 3: you've lied to me, and now you're involving my friends
Speaker 3: in this. After that message, then I refused to speak
Speaker 3: to him. So I actually contacted his mom and I
Speaker 3: just said, he's done this again. I broke down in
Speaker 3: tears on the phone to her and I just said,
Speaker 3: why does this keep happening? Like why is he doing this?
Speaker 3: And she was devastated as well, and she's just said
Speaker 3: it's okay, we'll sort it out. Yeah, I said to
Speaker 3: his mom, tell him not to contact me. I need
Speaker 3: some space from him, and I'll speak to him when
Speaker 3: I'm ready. And then I, yeah, basically packed all of
Speaker 3: his stuff, every belonging that he had, into a bag.
Speaker 3: I packed it in my car. And you know, he'd
Speaker 3: already started telling people that we had broken up before
Speaker 3: we'd even had the conversation. So I was like upset
Speaker 3: because I was getting messages from his friend's girlfriends saying,
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, we've just heard about you and James.
Speaker 3: We're so sorry, and it's like we hadn't even had
Speaker 3: that conversation yet, and so then I was kind of like,
Speaker 3: that's it. So packed his stuff, I said, let's meet up,
Speaker 3: and yeah, we had a conversation, and I just said,
Speaker 3: I can't do this anymore, like you've yeah broke in
Speaker 3: my heart, like the fact that you've done all of
Speaker 3: this and you've lied to me. And I just actually
Speaker 3: put it to him like this. I said, you know,
Speaker 3: your sister is now dating a new person. I said,
Speaker 3: if your sister came to you and said to you,
Speaker 3: my boyfriend has done X, Y and Z, which is
Speaker 3: what you've done to me, what would your advice be
Speaker 3: to her? Would you say stay with him and give
Speaker 3: him another chance, even though you've already I already gave
Speaker 3: him so many chances. Or would you say break up?
Speaker 3: And he said break up? And I said, there you go.
Speaker 3: I was really hard. I had to get a lot
Speaker 3: of my stuff from him, and like all of my
Speaker 3: belongings were kind of stored at his parents' house and
Speaker 3: then we packed all of that stuff up together and
Speaker 3: put it in a storage unit, and he slipped this
Speaker 3: letter in my bag and he just said, I'm going
Speaker 3: to keep fighting for you until you tell me to stop.
Speaker 3: Even after that, I was like, you know what, I
Speaker 3: think that we will still get back together. And not
Speaker 3: that I had hope, but I just kind of thought.
Speaker 3: I always thought that he was my sole mate. He
Speaker 3: was going to be the person that i'd settled down
Speaker 3: with and be with for the rest of my life.
Speaker 3: And I just thought, you know, maybe he'll sort everything
Speaker 3: out and then we can start fresh again. And then
Speaker 3: I'm so glad that I saw this mutual friend because
Speaker 3: I ran into her. So this was a few months
Speaker 3: after the breakup and we kind of cut contact and
Speaker 3: I saw her and she was like to me, I'm
Speaker 3: so sorry about you and James like, I hope that
Speaker 3: you're okay, and I was like, oh, I know, like
Speaker 3: and she goes, you know, he's never going to change.
Speaker 3: He's always been like this, and I was like, what
Speaker 3: do you mean, and she's like, you know, he did
Speaker 3: this when he was in his early twenties and I
Speaker 3: was like what, and she's like, yeah, he stole twenty
Speaker 3: one grand from two people at this local sports club
Speaker 3: as well, and I was again just in shock, but
Speaker 3: I just felt so validated. He was a repeat offender
Speaker 3: with these sorts of behaviors to do with money. It
Speaker 3: really reassured me that I made the right decision in
Speaker 3: not being with him, and it stopped me from holding
Speaker 3: on to hope that we'd ever get back together. I
Speaker 3: was absolutely heartbroken because, like I said, I thought that
Speaker 3: I was going to be with him for the rest
Speaker 3: of my life, and I actually I didn't imagine a
Speaker 3: life without him, and so it was so much to
Speaker 3: process all of that going on, but then also having
Speaker 3: to deal with a breakup that I never thought, yeah,
Speaker 3: that I never anticipated as well. So yeah, it was
Speaker 3: really tough. I missed all of the things about our relationship.
Speaker 3: We had such a great relationship. That was the sad
Speaker 3: part of it, that we were so happy together and
Speaker 3: there were so many positives. He was such a great person,
Speaker 3: and that's why it kind of shocked everyone. It didn't
Speaker 3: just shock me. It shocked my family, It shocked all
Speaker 3: of our friends and everything like that, because I just
Speaker 3: didn't think that he was capable of doing something like that.
Speaker 3: It made me realize I had no idea who I
Speaker 3: was dating for three years, and that scared me. And
Speaker 3: it scared me that there was so much about him
Speaker 3: that I didn't know and I had no idea about,
Speaker 3: and that he hid from me and kept from me.
Speaker 3: And the even scarier thing was how good he was
Speaker 3: at put on this facade and lying. And yeah, he
Speaker 3: was such a good liar. It was like ignorance is
Speaker 3: bliss and out of sight, out of mind kind of thing.
Speaker 3: So I think that's how he went on. And I
Speaker 3: think he just thought, in his mind, if I don't
Speaker 3: believe that this is happening, it's not actually happening.
Speaker 1: She never really got any proper answers as to why
Speaker 1: James did all this, why he was so bad with money,
Speaker 1: why he lied while he stole and ripped off his
Speaker 1: own friends.
Speaker 3: But there was.
Speaker 1: One thing in all of this she couldn't begin to
Speaker 1: move on from without asking.
Speaker 3: When we broke up, I said to him, I was like,
Speaker 3: what were you doing in Europe trying to have a
Speaker 3: child with me? Were you trying to trap me? And
Speaker 3: he just said, I was just so excited about our
Speaker 3: future together. I'm really good at compartmentalizing, and I was
Speaker 3: just compartmentalizing what was going on and just thinking about
Speaker 3: our future. And yeah, that as well. I was just like,
Speaker 3: I can't believe that he, yeah, basically tried to baby
Speaker 3: trap me too. I'm sad that it worked out the
Speaker 3: way that it did, but I'm so grateful that I
Speaker 3: got out when I did, and that we didn't start
Speaker 3: that next chapter of having a child together, because that
Speaker 3: would have just made things so much more complex. And
Speaker 3: I don't want my future father of my children to
Speaker 3: be a liar the way that he was. I would
Speaker 3: never want anyone to think that because he had this
Speaker 3: big debt that was the reason that I broke up
Speaker 3: with him. I gave him so many chances. I uplifted
Speaker 3: my whole life, moved back to my parents, we went
Speaker 3: to counseling, we tried to work through everything. I gave
Speaker 3: him so many chances, and it wasn't just about that.
Speaker 3: It was about the lies and the deceit that just
Speaker 3: I couldn't get over. He kept making me complicit in
Speaker 3: his lies too. I did not appreciate, and we kept
Speaker 3: arguing about it because there was one time where one
Speaker 3: of his family members actually said so you guys are
Speaker 3: moving back to your parents, and James still has his
Speaker 3: investment property, doesn't he And I had to lie to
Speaker 3: her because I didn't want to share that because he'd
Speaker 3: asked me not to say anything. And I kept saying
Speaker 3: to him, you need to start telling people because I
Speaker 3: don't want to be complicit in this lie. You need
Speaker 3: to come up with something, whether it's you've sold the
Speaker 3: property or you no longer have possession of it or
Speaker 3: something like that. And yeah, it was just it kind
Speaker 3: of was a bit of a snowball effect. It wasn't
Speaker 3: about the money. It was about the fact that he
Speaker 3: kept lying and he kept putting me in the same
Speaker 3: position over and over again. He was in a really
Speaker 3: awful situation. But I had to put myself first because
Speaker 3: I couldn't keep getting lied to again and again. He's
Speaker 3: said this to a lot of people, that he's going
Speaker 3: to work really hard on himself to try and get
Speaker 3: me back. And I actually saw someone not long ago,
Speaker 3: and she said to me, I saw him not long ago,
Speaker 3: and he said that he's working on himself to get
Speaker 3: you back, and I said, that's never going to happen.
Speaker 3: I will never date him ever again. After all of
Speaker 3: the things that I found out, and she goes, oh, like,
Speaker 3: you know, he's told me. And I was like, well,
Speaker 3: did he tell you this and this and this and this,
Speaker 3: And she's like, no, he didn't tell me that. So
Speaker 3: I think that he tells people one side of the
Speaker 3: story that actually happened. It took me a few months
Speaker 3: to kind of deal with the whole breakup, and I
Speaker 3: went through my stages of sad anger, you know, stages
Speaker 3: of grief. And now I'm back living in my place.
Speaker 3: I'm really happy. I love having my own space again,
Speaker 3: and I'm dating, and you know, I'm on the apps,
Speaker 3: but they can be pretty tragic, but I'm having fun.
Speaker 3: So I'm just trying to keep myself busy, spend lots
Speaker 3: of time with friends and family, and I'm in a
Speaker 3: really good place now. I really want to go back
Speaker 3: to Europe, and I still had an amazing time in
Speaker 3: Europe regardless of everything that happened. But I'm hoping to
Speaker 3: go back by myself and make some new memories and yeah,
Speaker 3: hopefully I can eventually meet the person of my dreams
Speaker 3: that doesn't lie to me and break my trust. I've
Speaker 3: always been a big believer that trust is there until
Speaker 3: it's broken, and that's what I feel like it was
Speaker 3: with James. I had no reason not to trust him,
Speaker 3: and I'm hoping that going forward, I can take that
Speaker 3: into new relationships as well. I really do hope that
Speaker 3: he can sort himself out, he can sort his life out,
Speaker 3: he can get back on track, and he is a
Speaker 3: good person. He has a good heart, and he's just
Speaker 3: made some really stupid decisions. And I hope that he
Speaker 3: can learn from these decisions and these mistakes and that
Speaker 3: he doesn't make them going forward. I just won't be
Speaker 3: around to see it.
Speaker 1: Everyone Has an Ex is a Minti Media production and
Speaker 1: proudly part of the Mum and mea network. It's written
Speaker 1: and narrated by me Georgia Love and produced by Linda Scott.
Speaker 1: If you like We've heard, support the podcast by hitting subscribe,
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