1 00:00:06,415 --> 00:00:12,255 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast. 2 00:00:13,815 --> 00:00:18,295 Speaker 2: Good morning from gadigal Land. I'm Tabor Strano. Parliament returned 3 00:00:18,335 --> 00:00:21,095 Speaker 2: early this week in a bit to pass hate speech 4 00:00:21,135 --> 00:00:24,135 Speaker 2: and gun laws in the wake of the Bondi terror attack. 5 00:00:24,775 --> 00:00:27,935 Speaker 2: But what will these new laws actually do and why 6 00:00:28,015 --> 00:00:31,055 Speaker 2: does something that's supposed to unify the nation seem to 7 00:00:31,055 --> 00:00:34,334 Speaker 2: be so divisive? Before we get there, clamorp, it's got 8 00:00:34,335 --> 00:00:37,934 Speaker 2: your news headlines for Tuesday, January twenty Thanks Taylor. 9 00:00:38,055 --> 00:00:41,255 Speaker 3: Experts are warning that recent weather conditions may be contributing 10 00:00:41,294 --> 00:00:43,815 Speaker 3: to the spike in shark attacks in Sydney. A young 11 00:00:43,854 --> 00:00:46,974 Speaker 3: boy remains in critical condition in hospital after he was 12 00:00:47,015 --> 00:00:49,055 Speaker 3: bitten on the legs by a shark on Sunday in 13 00:00:49,135 --> 00:00:52,815 Speaker 3: Sydney Harbor. Yesterday, young surfers board was bitten into at 14 00:00:52,815 --> 00:00:55,455 Speaker 3: a beach at d Y. Just hours later, a man 15 00:00:55,535 --> 00:00:58,094 Speaker 3: was rushed to hospital in a critical condition after he 16 00:00:58,215 --> 00:01:00,735 Speaker 3: was also bitten on the leg at Manly just before 17 00:01:00,815 --> 00:01:04,694 Speaker 3: six thirty pm. With three shark incidents in twenty four hours, 18 00:01:04,735 --> 00:01:07,775 Speaker 3: experts are warning that the recent heavy rain has created 19 00:01:07,815 --> 00:01:11,694 Speaker 3: brackish water, which is conducive to shark activity. The murky 20 00:01:11,775 --> 00:01:14,375 Speaker 3: water has meant that Surf Life Savings New South Wales 21 00:01:14,415 --> 00:01:17,055 Speaker 3: drones and other state of the art shark equipment was 22 00:01:17,175 --> 00:01:20,175 Speaker 3: unable to identify what type of shark may be involved 23 00:01:20,215 --> 00:01:22,695 Speaker 3: in the attacks, but experts say due to the nature 24 00:01:22,695 --> 00:01:25,335 Speaker 3: of the injuries and the water conditions, they're likely to 25 00:01:25,375 --> 00:01:27,935 Speaker 3: be bull sharks, of which there are many in Sydney Harbour. 26 00:01:28,335 --> 00:01:31,535 Speaker 3: The Westpac Lifesaver Rescue helicopter will be deployed to fly 27 00:01:31,655 --> 00:01:34,015 Speaker 3: surveillance up and down the northern beaches for the next 28 00:01:34,015 --> 00:01:37,095 Speaker 3: few days. Surf Life Saving New South Wales Chief Steve 29 00:01:37,135 --> 00:01:39,455 Speaker 3: Pierce urging swimmers to stay out of the water for 30 00:01:39,455 --> 00:01:42,935 Speaker 3: the next forty eight hours. Text messages between the Norwegian 31 00:01:42,975 --> 00:01:45,935 Speaker 3: Prime Minister and US President Donald Trump has revealed just 32 00:01:46,015 --> 00:01:49,215 Speaker 3: how committed Trump is to taking over Greenland. Sent on 33 00:01:49,335 --> 00:01:53,455 Speaker 3: January eighteen, Norwegian PM Eunice Gartner asked for a phone 34 00:01:53,455 --> 00:01:56,535 Speaker 3: call with Trump on behalf of himself and finish PM 35 00:01:56,615 --> 00:02:00,335 Speaker 3: Alexander Stube. He says Trump knows their position on many issues, 36 00:02:00,335 --> 00:02:03,095 Speaker 3: including Greenland, and calls for all of them to work 37 00:02:03,135 --> 00:02:07,135 Speaker 3: to de escalate the situation. Trump vote back with this message, 38 00:02:07,375 --> 00:02:10,135 Speaker 3: considering your country decided not to give me the Nobel 39 00:02:10,215 --> 00:02:13,494 Speaker 3: Peace Prize for having stopped eight wars plus. I no 40 00:02:13,575 --> 00:02:16,415 Speaker 3: longer feel an obligation to think purely of peace, although 41 00:02:16,415 --> 00:02:18,855 Speaker 3: it will always be predominant, but can now think about 42 00:02:18,855 --> 00:02:21,775 Speaker 3: what is good and proper for the United States of America. 43 00:02:21,935 --> 00:02:24,895 Speaker 3: Denmark cannot protect that land from Russia or China. And 44 00:02:24,935 --> 00:02:27,335 Speaker 3: why do they have a right of ownership anyway? There 45 00:02:27,335 --> 00:02:30,015 Speaker 3: are no written documents. It's only that a boat landed 46 00:02:30,055 --> 00:02:32,615 Speaker 3: there hundreds of years ago. But we had boats landing 47 00:02:32,655 --> 00:02:35,135 Speaker 3: there also. He went on to say, I have done 48 00:02:35,215 --> 00:02:38,055 Speaker 3: more for NATO than any other person since its founding, 49 00:02:38,375 --> 00:02:41,295 Speaker 3: and now NATO should do something for the United States. 50 00:02:41,575 --> 00:02:44,015 Speaker 3: The world is not secure, he said, unless we have 51 00:02:44,095 --> 00:02:48,255 Speaker 3: complete and total control of Greenland. Thank you, President DJT. 52 00:02:48,855 --> 00:02:52,335 Speaker 3: Greenland's Prime Minister YenS Frederick Nilsen says the Danish territory 53 00:02:52,335 --> 00:02:55,655 Speaker 3: will not be pressured by US threats, including an announcement 54 00:02:55,655 --> 00:02:57,935 Speaker 3: from the White House that it plans to impose tariffs 55 00:02:57,975 --> 00:03:01,575 Speaker 3: on countries that have deployed troops to the island. Indigenous 56 00:03:01,575 --> 00:03:04,015 Speaker 3: Australians and their allies are hoping they will be able 57 00:03:04,015 --> 00:03:07,055 Speaker 3: to mark January twenty six in invasion day, as police 58 00:03:07,055 --> 00:03:10,215 Speaker 3: decide whether protests can go ahead as planned. New South 59 00:03:10,215 --> 00:03:13,215 Speaker 3: Wales Police Commissioner Mallanion is today expected to make a 60 00:03:13,255 --> 00:03:16,335 Speaker 3: decision on whether to extend restrictions on public assemblies for 61 00:03:16,375 --> 00:03:19,935 Speaker 3: another fortnight. The Commissioner declared the first fourteen day ban 62 00:03:20,055 --> 00:03:23,055 Speaker 3: on December twenty four, using new powers given to him 63 00:03:23,095 --> 00:03:26,255 Speaker 3: in response to the deadly Bondai terror attack. The current 64 00:03:26,295 --> 00:03:29,895 Speaker 3: declaration has already been extended, but if the Commissioner chooses 65 00:03:29,935 --> 00:03:32,815 Speaker 3: to draw it out again the January twenty six protesters 66 00:03:32,855 --> 00:03:36,215 Speaker 3: will not be able to march through Sydney streets. Protesters 67 00:03:36,215 --> 00:03:38,455 Speaker 3: had planned to march through the city from Hyde Park 68 00:03:38,495 --> 00:03:41,055 Speaker 3: as they raise their voices on issues like the gap 69 00:03:41,095 --> 00:03:45,015 Speaker 3: between Indigenous and non Indigenous health outcomes, debts in custody, 70 00:03:45,095 --> 00:03:50,095 Speaker 3: and systemic racism. While the police declaration doesn't explicitly ban protests, 71 00:03:50,375 --> 00:03:54,055 Speaker 3: it prevents New South Wales residents from seeking authorization for rallies, 72 00:03:54,335 --> 00:03:57,055 Speaker 3: leaving those who choose to take part vulnerable to arrest 73 00:03:57,095 --> 00:04:00,495 Speaker 3: for obstructing traffic or pedestrians or marching through the streets. 74 00:04:01,255 --> 00:04:04,495 Speaker 3: Prince Harry has told Accord it is disturbing to feel 75 00:04:04,495 --> 00:04:07,335 Speaker 3: that his every move, thought or feeling was being tracked 76 00:04:07,615 --> 00:04:10,695 Speaker 3: so that publisher Daily Mail could make money out of it. 77 00:04:10,775 --> 00:04:13,735 Speaker 3: Harry is amongst a group of seven high profile plaintiffs 78 00:04:13,735 --> 00:04:16,614 Speaker 3: who accused the publisher of The Daily Mail, ANL, of 79 00:04:16,695 --> 00:04:20,414 Speaker 3: invading their privacy by using unlawful information gathering tactics to 80 00:04:20,455 --> 00:04:23,895 Speaker 3: snoop on them for sensational headlines. Harry, Elton John and 81 00:04:23,935 --> 00:04:27,055 Speaker 3: actors Elizabeth Hurley and Sadie Frost and others alleged that 82 00:04:27,135 --> 00:04:31,495 Speaker 3: Associated Newspapers Limited hired private investigators to bug their cars, 83 00:04:31,735 --> 00:04:35,055 Speaker 3: obtain their private records and eavesdrop on phone calls. In 84 00:04:35,055 --> 00:04:38,335 Speaker 3: written submissions on behalf of Harry, lawyer David Sherborne said 85 00:04:38,335 --> 00:04:42,375 Speaker 3: the publisher's methods of information gathering left him paranoid beyond 86 00:04:42,375 --> 00:04:46,135 Speaker 3: belief and created a massive strain on personal relationships. In 87 00:04:46,175 --> 00:04:49,695 Speaker 3: response to Harry's claims, an L said in their written submissions, 88 00:04:49,735 --> 00:04:53,095 Speaker 3: at all material times, the Duke of Sussex's social circle 89 00:04:53,335 --> 00:04:55,535 Speaker 3: was and was known to be a good source of 90 00:04:55,615 --> 00:04:58,575 Speaker 3: leaks or disclosure of information to the media about what 91 00:04:58,655 --> 00:05:01,094 Speaker 3: he got up to in his private life. Harry, who 92 00:05:01,135 --> 00:05:04,135 Speaker 3: was expected to give evidence on Thursday, appeared in person 93 00:05:04,175 --> 00:05:08,495 Speaker 3: at the Royal Courts of Justice to follow proceedings. Valentino Garavani, 94 00:05:08,495 --> 00:05:11,654 Speaker 3: the jet set Italian designer whose high glamour gowns, often 95 00:05:11,735 --> 00:05:15,094 Speaker 3: in his trademark shade of Valentino Red, had graced red 96 00:05:15,135 --> 00:05:19,055 Speaker 3: carpets for decades, has sadly passed away. Usually known only 97 00:05:19,095 --> 00:05:21,735 Speaker 3: by his first name, ninety three year old Valentino had 98 00:05:21,775 --> 00:05:24,535 Speaker 3: retired back in two thousand and eight after spending more 99 00:05:24,575 --> 00:05:27,575 Speaker 3: than forty years making beautiful gowns for the likes of royals, 100 00:05:27,615 --> 00:05:31,055 Speaker 3: first ladies and movie stars, from Jackie Kennedy Onassis to 101 00:05:31,135 --> 00:05:34,455 Speaker 3: Julia Roberts and Queen Rania of Jordan. His fail safe 102 00:05:34,495 --> 00:05:37,295 Speaker 3: designs made Valentino the King of the Red carpet, the 103 00:05:37,375 --> 00:05:40,215 Speaker 3: go to man for a Listers Awards ceremony needs his 104 00:05:40,295 --> 00:05:43,695 Speaker 3: gowns of grace countless Academy Awards. Julia Roberts wore a 105 00:05:43,775 --> 00:05:46,895 Speaker 3: vintage black and white Valentino column to accept her Best 106 00:05:46,935 --> 00:05:50,015 Speaker 3: Actress statue in two thousand and one, and Kate Blanchette 107 00:05:50,015 --> 00:05:53,094 Speaker 3: wore a one shouldered Valentino number in butty yellow silk 108 00:05:53,295 --> 00:05:55,615 Speaker 3: when she won the Oscar for Best Supporting Actress in 109 00:05:55,655 --> 00:05:56,575 Speaker 3: two thousand and four. 110 00:05:56,895 --> 00:06:00,735 Speaker 2: Thanks Clen Next, unpacking the proposed hate speech and gun bores. 111 00:06:06,055 --> 00:06:09,654 Speaker 2: In the immediate aftermath of the December fourteen Bondai terrorist attack, 112 00:06:09,935 --> 00:06:11,054 Speaker 2: there were calls for action. 113 00:06:11,735 --> 00:06:14,055 Speaker 4: The first thing that needs to happen urgently is for 114 00:06:14,095 --> 00:06:17,975 Speaker 4: the Parliament to be recalled. Every single day, the Coalition 115 00:06:18,175 --> 00:06:21,895 Speaker 4: stands ready to go into Parliament to move our own 116 00:06:22,695 --> 00:06:26,975 Speaker 4: legislation to establish a Royal commission into anti Semitism and 117 00:06:27,015 --> 00:06:30,815 Speaker 4: the Bondai terror attack, and to work with the government 118 00:06:31,175 --> 00:06:34,415 Speaker 4: on hate speech laws and other measures that they want 119 00:06:34,455 --> 00:06:35,094 Speaker 4: to bring forward. 120 00:06:36,135 --> 00:06:40,815 Speaker 2: Families of victims, community leaders and politicians like Opposition leader 121 00:06:40,815 --> 00:06:43,974 Speaker 2: Susan Lee, who you just heard from there, implored Anthony 122 00:06:44,015 --> 00:06:48,055 Speaker 2: Albanesi and his Labor government to act swiftly to legislate 123 00:06:48,095 --> 00:06:51,335 Speaker 2: against hate speech and call for a Royal commission. And 124 00:06:51,455 --> 00:06:54,055 Speaker 2: after much back and forth, the Christmas break and the 125 00:06:54,055 --> 00:06:56,935 Speaker 2: announcement of a review into the Bondai attack, the PM 126 00:06:57,055 --> 00:06:59,815 Speaker 2: finally announced a Royal Commission on January eighth. 127 00:07:00,335 --> 00:07:03,455 Speaker 5: I've said repeatedly that our government's priority is to promote 128 00:07:03,575 --> 00:07:08,175 Speaker 5: unity and social cohe and this is what Australia needs 129 00:07:08,855 --> 00:07:12,175 Speaker 5: to heal to learn to come together. 130 00:07:13,055 --> 00:07:17,135 Speaker 2: But now Parliament has been recalled. Early politicians, their staff 131 00:07:17,175 --> 00:07:20,255 Speaker 2: and journalists all piling back into House chambers and press 132 00:07:20,255 --> 00:07:23,614 Speaker 2: galleries as Labour's proposed hate speech laws hit the House 133 00:07:23,615 --> 00:07:27,055 Speaker 2: of Reps for debate. As a reminder, the Opposition had 134 00:07:27,055 --> 00:07:29,895 Speaker 2: called for both hate speech laws and a Royal commission 135 00:07:30,135 --> 00:07:33,295 Speaker 2: essentially the day following the horrific acts of violence that 136 00:07:33,375 --> 00:07:37,415 Speaker 2: took fifteen lives and damaged many others. But now Labour's 137 00:07:37,415 --> 00:07:40,855 Speaker 2: Omnibus Bill, a piece of legislation aiming to tackle both 138 00:07:40,935 --> 00:07:43,815 Speaker 2: hate speech and gun control in one fell swoop, has 139 00:07:43,855 --> 00:07:47,375 Speaker 2: been met with widespread opposition, so much so that the 140 00:07:47,415 --> 00:07:50,215 Speaker 2: PM will split the bills in two, one to tackle 141 00:07:50,255 --> 00:07:54,335 Speaker 2: gun control laws, the other looking at hate speech. The 142 00:07:54,375 --> 00:07:58,015 Speaker 2: Liberal Party have rubbished the legislation. One nation say rush 143 00:07:58,095 --> 00:08:01,055 Speaker 2: laws will limit free speech. Even the Greens, who have 144 00:08:01,215 --> 00:08:04,975 Speaker 2: traditionally sided with Labor over other parties, say it needs work, 145 00:08:05,735 --> 00:08:09,135 Speaker 2: and as of yesterday afternoon, Susan Lee's shadow Cabinet agreed 146 00:08:09,175 --> 00:08:11,455 Speaker 2: to meet Labor in the middle to get these hate 147 00:08:11,455 --> 00:08:14,975 Speaker 2: speech laws passed. What this may look like, well, the 148 00:08:15,055 --> 00:08:18,415 Speaker 2: jury's still out. Meanwhile, the families at the center of 149 00:08:18,455 --> 00:08:21,375 Speaker 2: the tragedy are also not convinced these laws will create 150 00:08:21,415 --> 00:08:24,935 Speaker 2: great change. Michael Bridven, the father of the youngest victim, 151 00:08:24,975 --> 00:08:28,175 Speaker 2: ten year old Matilda, told the ABC rushing these laws 152 00:08:28,215 --> 00:08:29,255 Speaker 2: won't solve the problem. 153 00:08:29,455 --> 00:08:32,855 Speaker 6: Criminals do not care about any laws you make about 154 00:08:32,895 --> 00:08:36,335 Speaker 6: any speech or any guns. They will find their way. 155 00:08:36,775 --> 00:08:41,935 Speaker 6: When the government tried to rush any laws, especially after 156 00:08:41,975 --> 00:08:43,855 Speaker 6: some tragedy, then they were good. 157 00:08:44,135 --> 00:08:46,815 Speaker 2: So will these hate speech laws even make it to 158 00:08:46,855 --> 00:08:51,615 Speaker 2: the parliamentary flaw? Let's ask New Daily contributing editor Amy 159 00:08:51,655 --> 00:08:55,175 Speaker 2: ramikez Amy. Start at the top for me, what are 160 00:08:55,215 --> 00:08:58,535 Speaker 2: these laws aiming to do and why were they introduced 161 00:08:58,535 --> 00:09:01,295 Speaker 2: together but now singly being split apart. 162 00:09:02,135 --> 00:09:07,255 Speaker 1: So the Parliament will be discussing what was one giant 163 00:09:07,455 --> 00:09:11,495 Speaker 1: bill that has now been split into at least two, 164 00:09:12,135 --> 00:09:15,215 Speaker 1: possibly more down the track. So the one that the 165 00:09:15,295 --> 00:09:18,574 Speaker 1: government knows that they are going to get past are 166 00:09:18,655 --> 00:09:21,335 Speaker 1: gun reforms, and that is the one that they've probably 167 00:09:21,415 --> 00:09:24,735 Speaker 1: been working on the longest. What they're doing is that 168 00:09:24,775 --> 00:09:27,695 Speaker 1: they're bringing forward reforms that were going to come in 169 00:09:27,695 --> 00:09:31,575 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty eight, things like a national gun register, 170 00:09:31,815 --> 00:09:34,775 Speaker 1: so if you have a gun registered in New South Wales, 171 00:09:34,895 --> 00:09:38,455 Speaker 1: people in Queensland, of Victoria or wherever else will know 172 00:09:38,615 --> 00:09:42,295 Speaker 1: about it. They're going to have more background checks. They're 173 00:09:42,335 --> 00:09:47,335 Speaker 1: going to just tighten up who and who can't have guns. 174 00:09:47,695 --> 00:09:50,655 Speaker 1: So this is something that the National Cabinet, which is 175 00:09:50,735 --> 00:09:53,775 Speaker 1: all of the new jurisdictions, have been discussing for some time. 176 00:09:54,175 --> 00:09:56,535 Speaker 1: They agreed to do something. In a couple of years, 177 00:09:56,855 --> 00:10:00,335 Speaker 1: Bondy has meant that they've gone, actually, no, we need 178 00:10:00,375 --> 00:10:03,255 Speaker 1: to do it now. And that is of course because one, 179 00:10:03,775 --> 00:10:07,535 Speaker 1: you know, guns were used to do absolutely horrific terror 180 00:10:07,575 --> 00:10:11,655 Speaker 1: acts in Australia once again, and also one of the 181 00:10:11,695 --> 00:10:15,455 Speaker 1: alleged terrorists had a legally registered gun. So the gun 182 00:10:15,535 --> 00:10:18,255 Speaker 1: laws are something that they know they have the green 183 00:10:18,375 --> 00:10:21,415 Speaker 1: support for that will get through the Senate. The other 184 00:10:21,535 --> 00:10:25,095 Speaker 1: part of this bill is the hate speech part of it, 185 00:10:25,255 --> 00:10:29,695 Speaker 1: which is being a bit controversial one because it had 186 00:10:29,815 --> 00:10:35,934 Speaker 1: looked at previously offense. An offense is really difficult legally 187 00:10:36,375 --> 00:10:40,655 Speaker 1: to kind of define because you can be offended by 188 00:10:40,735 --> 00:10:45,255 Speaker 1: something that doesn't necessarily make it hate speech. Because of 189 00:10:45,415 --> 00:10:48,375 Speaker 1: current laws that we have in Australia at the moment, 190 00:10:48,415 --> 00:10:52,655 Speaker 1: we have eighteen C of the Racial Discrimination Act, which 191 00:10:52,775 --> 00:10:56,055 Speaker 1: defines what hate speech is, and then we have eighteen 192 00:10:56,175 --> 00:10:59,615 Speaker 1: D of the Racial Discrimination Act which says that if 193 00:10:59,615 --> 00:11:03,255 Speaker 1: a comment has been made as fair comment. Offense isn't 194 00:11:03,295 --> 00:11:07,095 Speaker 1: necessarily enough to make it hate speech. So that's how 195 00:11:07,175 --> 00:11:10,895 Speaker 1: you can say something in political comment. You can have art, 196 00:11:11,175 --> 00:11:15,135 Speaker 1: you can have a political cartoon that doesn't necessarily count 197 00:11:15,255 --> 00:11:19,415 Speaker 1: as hate speech. These laws that the government had first 198 00:11:19,535 --> 00:11:24,055 Speaker 1: put forward would have made offense really difficult for the 199 00:11:24,095 --> 00:11:28,175 Speaker 1: courts to decide who was offended, whether that was enough 200 00:11:28,255 --> 00:11:31,215 Speaker 1: to make it hate speech, whether there was some verbal 201 00:11:31,375 --> 00:11:37,015 Speaker 1: violence behind what was being set. That had civil libertarians upset. 202 00:11:37,295 --> 00:11:41,095 Speaker 1: It had members of the religious community upset because there 203 00:11:41,095 --> 00:11:45,015 Speaker 1: are elements of the Bible, particularly the Old Testament, which 204 00:11:45,175 --> 00:11:48,295 Speaker 1: could be counted as hate speech under these new laws. 205 00:11:48,575 --> 00:11:52,415 Speaker 1: It had lawyers upset, and it had people who do 206 00:11:52,535 --> 00:11:55,775 Speaker 1: comment for a living saying, well, that means that I 207 00:11:55,935 --> 00:11:59,214 Speaker 1: could not criticize a group of people who may be 208 00:11:59,495 --> 00:12:03,495 Speaker 1: acting in a way that Australian society considers to be 209 00:12:03,695 --> 00:12:08,135 Speaker 1: out of step with our value because potentially somebody from 210 00:12:08,175 --> 00:12:11,935 Speaker 1: that community could take offense. So the Liberal Party, which 211 00:12:11,975 --> 00:12:16,255 Speaker 1: had been pushing for these hate speech laws, came out 212 00:12:16,295 --> 00:12:20,255 Speaker 1: and said we cannot support these laws. And that is 213 00:12:20,295 --> 00:12:22,775 Speaker 1: a little bit of a political wedge that had been 214 00:12:22,815 --> 00:12:25,935 Speaker 1: played by the government and by a wedge. I mean 215 00:12:25,975 --> 00:12:31,615 Speaker 1: that Labor essentially gave the Coalition what it said it wanted, 216 00:12:32,054 --> 00:12:35,935 Speaker 1: what it was advocating for, knowing that when it came 217 00:12:35,975 --> 00:12:39,855 Speaker 1: to the crunch, the coalition's own voters, their own base, 218 00:12:40,015 --> 00:12:43,335 Speaker 1: would be very much against these laws because of its 219 00:12:43,375 --> 00:12:46,775 Speaker 1: impact on freedom of speech and they would have to 220 00:12:46,815 --> 00:12:47,695 Speaker 1: walk away from it. 221 00:12:48,295 --> 00:12:53,135 Speaker 2: Susan Lee and the Liberal Party pretty much immediately in 222 00:12:53,175 --> 00:12:56,375 Speaker 2: the aftermath of BONDI had called for Anthony Albanezi to 223 00:12:56,535 --> 00:12:59,895 Speaker 2: act upon this, to call Parliament back before Christmas to 224 00:12:59,975 --> 00:13:02,735 Speaker 2: get these laws passed, but that didn't happen as quickly 225 00:13:02,735 --> 00:13:04,655 Speaker 2: as they would have liked. It has happened now though. 226 00:13:04,695 --> 00:13:08,814 Speaker 2: Parliament did come back early this week, so they should 227 00:13:08,895 --> 00:13:11,455 Speaker 2: be happy, right, but it sounds like they're still not 228 00:13:11,575 --> 00:13:15,655 Speaker 2: completely satisfied despite this week saying as well, they will 229 00:13:15,695 --> 00:13:17,655 Speaker 2: come to the table to negotiate. 230 00:13:18,215 --> 00:13:21,135 Speaker 1: A lot of politics is being played around this. So 231 00:13:21,175 --> 00:13:24,495 Speaker 1: Susan Lee came out on the back of Josh Fridenberg's 232 00:13:24,535 --> 00:13:27,375 Speaker 1: victory to forcing the government to hold a Royal Commission 233 00:13:27,775 --> 00:13:30,335 Speaker 1: into anti Semitism and the events that led up to 234 00:13:30,455 --> 00:13:33,055 Speaker 1: BONDAI and said, okay, now we're going to look at 235 00:13:33,135 --> 00:13:37,295 Speaker 1: hate speech The issue though for the Coalition is that 236 00:13:37,335 --> 00:13:41,695 Speaker 1: the Coalition wanted one particular part of hate speech looked at, 237 00:13:42,054 --> 00:13:46,655 Speaker 1: and constitutionally, you cannot just make laws for one section 238 00:13:46,855 --> 00:13:50,375 Speaker 1: of society. You cannot say we're going to give protections 239 00:13:50,415 --> 00:13:54,055 Speaker 1: to one group and no protections to other groups. So 240 00:13:54,255 --> 00:13:57,495 Speaker 1: even as Susan Lee was making these calls to have 241 00:13:57,535 --> 00:14:01,855 Speaker 1: a fence and to expand what hate speech was in Australia, 242 00:14:02,335 --> 00:14:06,015 Speaker 1: immediately you had members of the Coalition coming out and say, well, 243 00:14:06,215 --> 00:14:08,535 Speaker 1: we don't think that we need to broaden protections for 244 00:14:08,575 --> 00:14:13,694 Speaker 1: the LGBTQ community, which had other MPs in the independence 245 00:14:13,735 --> 00:14:16,815 Speaker 1: space like a Legraspender and Minnique Ryan come out and 246 00:14:16,855 --> 00:14:19,695 Speaker 1: say no, no, no, you can't just do hate speech 247 00:14:19,735 --> 00:14:22,295 Speaker 1: protections for one group. It has to be for all groups. 248 00:14:22,735 --> 00:14:25,815 Speaker 1: And so the government pretty much just watched this play out. 249 00:14:25,935 --> 00:14:28,455 Speaker 1: They recalled parliament, they said that they were going to 250 00:14:28,495 --> 00:14:31,375 Speaker 1: do the condolence motion for the fifteen victims of the 251 00:14:31,415 --> 00:14:34,535 Speaker 1: Bondai terror attack and that they would put this one 252 00:14:34,855 --> 00:14:38,335 Speaker 1: bill through the parliament, this one giant bill. When it 253 00:14:38,375 --> 00:14:41,735 Speaker 1: became obvious on Sunday that the Greens were not going 254 00:14:41,775 --> 00:14:44,895 Speaker 1: to support the hate speech provisions, the government said, right, 255 00:14:44,935 --> 00:14:47,135 Speaker 1: we are splitting it. We're going to do gun reforms. 256 00:14:47,415 --> 00:14:49,935 Speaker 1: The Coalition is welcome to talk to us about the 257 00:14:49,975 --> 00:14:54,295 Speaker 1: hate speech preachers aspect and the hate speech groups aspect, 258 00:14:54,615 --> 00:14:56,895 Speaker 1: but in terms of the offense and the bigger picture, 259 00:14:57,095 --> 00:14:59,575 Speaker 1: we're not going to do something on this. It's created 260 00:14:59,655 --> 00:15:02,935 Speaker 1: quite the political issue for Susan Lee. She's had her 261 00:15:03,015 --> 00:15:06,935 Speaker 1: leadership tenure of the Liberal Party did many people didn't 262 00:15:06,935 --> 00:15:10,335 Speaker 1: expect her to last the summer, but the coalition actually 263 00:15:10,375 --> 00:15:13,615 Speaker 1: found something to unite around in the wake of Bondai. 264 00:15:14,055 --> 00:15:17,455 Speaker 1: But that unity started to fracture again as soon as 265 00:15:17,455 --> 00:15:20,375 Speaker 1: it came to the nitty gritty of policy. And that's 266 00:15:20,415 --> 00:15:23,695 Speaker 1: because there are so many different views within the coalition, 267 00:15:24,175 --> 00:15:27,535 Speaker 1: within the Liberal Party, let alone the Nationals about who 268 00:15:27,775 --> 00:15:31,855 Speaker 1: deserves protection from hate speech. And this has been a 269 00:15:32,175 --> 00:15:35,935 Speaker 1: decade long battle within the Liberal Party and the wider 270 00:15:35,935 --> 00:15:40,535 Speaker 1: coalition party rooms over who deserves protection when it comes 271 00:15:40,535 --> 00:15:44,935 Speaker 1: to hate speech and what freedoms of speech all Australians 272 00:15:45,015 --> 00:15:46,575 Speaker 1: should be allowed to have. 273 00:15:46,975 --> 00:15:49,695 Speaker 2: So what are some of the possible outcomes then, Amy 274 00:15:49,695 --> 00:15:51,975 Speaker 2: it seems that everybody's at odds when it comes to 275 00:15:52,015 --> 00:15:54,735 Speaker 2: these bills, particularly the hate speech the groups and the 276 00:15:54,775 --> 00:16:00,375 Speaker 2: offense measures. It's going to table today in Parliament. So realistically, 277 00:16:00,615 --> 00:16:02,375 Speaker 2: what are some of the outcomes we could be seeing 278 00:16:02,615 --> 00:16:03,855 Speaker 2: Gun laws are going to pass. 279 00:16:04,095 --> 00:16:06,375 Speaker 1: The Greens have said yes, the Coalition can get on 280 00:16:06,455 --> 00:16:09,535 Speaker 1: board there or not. It doesn't really matter numbers are 281 00:16:09,535 --> 00:16:11,895 Speaker 1: in the Senate. When it comes to the hate speech 282 00:16:11,935 --> 00:16:14,735 Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if you saw the Greens come 283 00:16:14,775 --> 00:16:17,415 Speaker 1: to the negotiating table and look at different elements of 284 00:16:17,455 --> 00:16:20,215 Speaker 1: it and say we're willing to pass this and this now, 285 00:16:20,455 --> 00:16:23,575 Speaker 1: particularly around the hate groups again, which means that it 286 00:16:23,575 --> 00:16:25,855 Speaker 1: doesn't matter whether the Coalition comes to the table or not. 287 00:16:26,135 --> 00:16:28,215 Speaker 1: The Coalition could come to the table and say we 288 00:16:28,335 --> 00:16:33,295 Speaker 1: want more protections around different elements of the community. We 289 00:16:33,335 --> 00:16:36,295 Speaker 1: want hate speech preachers looked at, we want hate groups 290 00:16:36,335 --> 00:16:39,935 Speaker 1: looked at. Labor are just basically saying here is what 291 00:16:39,975 --> 00:16:42,535 Speaker 1: we have. You can pass it or not pass it. 292 00:16:42,895 --> 00:16:44,735 Speaker 1: We are going to get on with the business of 293 00:16:44,775 --> 00:16:48,255 Speaker 1: what we think needs to happen. And the Coalition they're 294 00:16:48,295 --> 00:16:50,695 Speaker 1: being helped along by one nation in terms of the 295 00:16:50,815 --> 00:16:54,695 Speaker 1: retric around some of this, but they're also losing to 296 00:16:54,775 --> 00:16:57,615 Speaker 1: one nation in the polls now, which means that one 297 00:16:57,695 --> 00:17:03,055 Speaker 1: nation is cannibalizing their vote. So even though the Coalition 298 00:17:03,335 --> 00:17:06,895 Speaker 1: has been as far out politically as you potentially could 299 00:17:06,975 --> 00:17:10,134 Speaker 1: be in this sort of space, it hasn't been enough 300 00:17:10,175 --> 00:17:14,375 Speaker 1: to win new voters. They've lost voters to one nation 301 00:17:14,935 --> 00:17:17,935 Speaker 1: and that is going to be an issue that follows 302 00:17:17,935 --> 00:17:20,014 Speaker 1: the Coalition throughout this parliament. 303 00:17:20,574 --> 00:17:24,054 Speaker 2: What's the real world's impact here if you change the law, 304 00:17:24,135 --> 00:17:27,614 Speaker 2: if you tell people, hey, you can't be racist toward 305 00:17:27,895 --> 00:17:31,854 Speaker 2: x YZ group, does that actually change people's attitudes toward 306 00:17:31,935 --> 00:17:32,414 Speaker 2: one another? 307 00:17:32,854 --> 00:17:35,895 Speaker 1: Well, evidence would say no. I mean every single time 308 00:17:36,014 --> 00:17:40,895 Speaker 1: they lift mandatory punishments for somebody who does a physical crime, 309 00:17:41,054 --> 00:17:44,134 Speaker 1: it doesn't lower crime. Nobody stops and says, oh, no, 310 00:17:44,334 --> 00:17:46,894 Speaker 1: I'm going to get twenty years instead of ten years 311 00:17:47,254 --> 00:17:51,534 Speaker 1: before they carry out something. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of 312 00:17:51,574 --> 00:17:56,055 Speaker 1: how crime works and how deterrence work. The only thing 313 00:17:56,094 --> 00:17:58,574 Speaker 1: that is going to stop racism in Australia is for 314 00:17:58,574 --> 00:18:01,455 Speaker 1: people to stop being racist, and that's going to mean 315 00:18:01,734 --> 00:18:05,294 Speaker 1: reckoning without past. It's going to mean listening to people 316 00:18:05,294 --> 00:18:08,655 Speaker 1: who tell us what racism is. It's going to mean 317 00:18:08,774 --> 00:18:12,854 Speaker 1: a lot of uncomfortable conversations. It's going to mean education 318 00:18:13,175 --> 00:18:17,054 Speaker 1: about how maybe what you've always believed actually isn't true. 319 00:18:17,215 --> 00:18:20,734 Speaker 1: And Australia, as we've seen through the Voice referendum and 320 00:18:20,814 --> 00:18:23,494 Speaker 1: some of the responses to how people have wanted to 321 00:18:23,574 --> 00:18:27,694 Speaker 1: deal with truth and Treaty commissions, doesn't seem to be 322 00:18:27,774 --> 00:18:29,174 Speaker 1: ready for that conversation. 323 00:18:30,534 --> 00:18:32,774 Speaker 2: Thanks for taking some time to feed your mind with 324 00:18:32,854 --> 00:18:35,494 Speaker 2: us today. Hey don't forget before you go. We're back 325 00:18:35,534 --> 00:18:38,414 Speaker 2: to SAVO with another news updates, so make sure you're 326 00:18:38,455 --> 00:18:41,455 Speaker 2: following us in your favorite podcast apps so you never 327 00:18:41,494 --> 00:18:45,095 Speaker 2: miss an EBB. The Quickie is produced by me Taylor Strano, 328 00:18:45,175 --> 00:18:49,294 Speaker 2: Alaria Brophy and Claire Murphy, with audio production by lou Hill. 329 00:18:55,294 --> 00:18:58,375 Speaker 3: Mumma Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 330 00:18:58,415 --> 00:19:00,135 Speaker 3: that this podcast is recorded on.