WEBVTT - Get Ready For The Black Friday Sales

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Mama Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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<v Speaker 2>that this podcast is recorded on Hi Nothing to Wear listeners.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Grace Rufrey, the producer of Nothing to Wear and

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<v Speaker 2>the host of the evening headlines on our news podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>The Quickie. With the Black Friday sales just around the

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<v Speaker 2>corner and some of them have even started, I wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to share an episode of the Quikie to help you

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<v Speaker 2>prepare for the shopping frenzy. It's all about making sure

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<v Speaker 2>you're buying what you truly need or will actually use,

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<v Speaker 2>because let's be honest, we've all been tempted by those

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<v Speaker 2>irresistible seventy five percent off signs. In this episode, The

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<v Speaker 2>Quickie host Claire Murphy dives into why we sometimes can't

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<v Speaker 2>resist a sale, even when our budget says otherwise. She

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<v Speaker 2>speaks with experts in psychology and behavioral science to unpack

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<v Speaker 2>the allure of discounts and explore why that rush of

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<v Speaker 2>dopamine from a bargain can feel so satisfying. Get ready

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<v Speaker 2>to shop smarter and stay in control this Black Friday.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the Quiki and the Psychology of sales.

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<v Speaker 3>You count mess it our genuine summer sale.

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<v Speaker 2>So when you buy one, you get one free.

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<v Speaker 3>Up to twenty five percent of fronts of half of

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<v Speaker 3>discount and sale right, loads of styles, tons of choice,

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<v Speaker 3>and store white savings.

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<v Speaker 1>How many times have you said to yourself, is sticking

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<v Speaker 1>to your savings plan this time? You won't buy any

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<v Speaker 1>new clothes for the next six months. You won't even

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<v Speaker 1>go shopping for anything other than the essentials, only to

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<v Speaker 1>find yourself at the counter holding an impulse by because

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<v Speaker 1>that percentage off red and white sales sign out the

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<v Speaker 1>front spoke to you fashion technology, homewares. It doesn't matter

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<v Speaker 1>what the thing is. If it is eighty percent off,

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<v Speaker 1>it all of a sudden becomes irresistible. We have been

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<v Speaker 1>so well trained in sales psychology that retailers have set

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<v Speaker 1>appointments with us throughout the year where they know we're

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<v Speaker 1>more likely to go on a spending spree. January is

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<v Speaker 1>often buy one, get one free month instead of thee

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<v Speaker 1>of variety because retailers are keen to move out the

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<v Speaker 1>leftover stock from the Christmas period. Then we head into

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<v Speaker 1>February's Valentine's Day, where florist's cash in through to Mother's

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<v Speaker 1>Day in May, there's click frenzy and a financial year

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<v Speaker 1>which we now lovingly refer to as earfus, Black Friday,

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<v Speaker 1>Cyber Monday, Christmas all the way through to Boxing Day

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<v Speaker 1>at the end of December. All year round, we are

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<v Speaker 1>geared to save, save, save, when really what we're doing

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<v Speaker 1>is spend, spend spent. How many ways are retailers working

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<v Speaker 1>their ways into our brains when it comes to sales time.

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<v Speaker 1>Matt Plant is the head of behavioral Sciences thinker at

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<v Speaker 1>Thinker Bell. Matt, why are sales signs red and white?

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<v Speaker 1>What is it about that color scheme that draws us in?

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<v Speaker 4>It's mostly because it works, which sounds like a simple

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<v Speaker 4>thing to say, but people have explored lots of different

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<v Speaker 4>colors for sales. Yellows and reds work really well, and

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<v Speaker 4>there's lots of different things to just say, people are

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<v Speaker 4>attracted to it, So it catches people's attention. Reds the

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<v Speaker 4>color that kind of stands out up and we've been

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<v Speaker 4>trained to see that combination of colors in this setting

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<v Speaker 4>of environments says there's an opportunity for some kind of

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<v Speaker 4>reward over there.

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<v Speaker 3>It's usually a sale.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, let's talk about that reward for a second, because

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<v Speaker 1>experts say that when we are out wandering around in

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<v Speaker 1>retail spaces, it takes us less than one second to

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<v Speaker 1>decide whether or not we're going to buy something. How

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<v Speaker 1>do retailers make sure that they make the most of

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<v Speaker 1>those of us who are making those impulse decisions.

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<v Speaker 3>It's really interesting. There's a concept called stopping power.

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<v Speaker 4>So the more likely you are to stop at a

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<v Speaker 4>point in a retail environment, the more likely you are

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<v Speaker 4>to purchase that thing. So basically they're just trying to

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<v Speaker 4>capture attention as much as possible. You'll be walking through

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<v Speaker 4>an aisle and you'll be seeing stickers all over the place.

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<v Speaker 4>You'll be seeing tickets that say sale or here, sale

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<v Speaker 4>or here.

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<v Speaker 3>That'll make you stop. That's enough to push you towards it.

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<v Speaker 1>How important is the language that's used around sales, especially

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<v Speaker 1>in that way that convinces us that we're actually saving

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<v Speaker 1>when really what we're doing is spending.

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<v Speaker 3>It's really important.

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<v Speaker 4>It's language, and there's also presentation, So there's a lot

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<v Speaker 4>of research that goes into the size of the numbers

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<v Speaker 4>that you see, so emphasizing the amount that you're saving,

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<v Speaker 4>the fact that it's bigger makes it feel like it

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<v Speaker 4>is more, and the price being smaller means you feel

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<v Speaker 4>like you are spending less. So it's this weird analogy

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<v Speaker 4>of big means more, small means less, and so it's

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<v Speaker 4>not just necessarily the words that go around it. It's

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<v Speaker 4>also the sizing where it's placed in a particular ticket.

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<v Speaker 4>So there's research that shows that when a number is

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<v Speaker 4>higher up, it feels like it's lighter, so therefore it's less,

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<v Speaker 4>and when it's lowered down it's heavier, so it feels

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<v Speaker 4>like it's more. So all of those things kind of

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<v Speaker 4>play into it as well as just words like saving

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<v Speaker 4>or off. Yet it's also the sizing and shapes of things.

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<v Speaker 1>When retailers are reducing prices like this, obviously, so much

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<v Speaker 1>goes into how much they charge us when it's full

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<v Speaker 1>retail price. I mean, there's so many factors from manufacture

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<v Speaker 1>all the way through to you know, rent and wages

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<v Speaker 1>and all the things that go into costing and pricing

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<v Speaker 1>a certain product. When they are having sales that seem

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<v Speaker 1>too good to be true, you know those eighty percent

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<v Speaker 1>off kind of things where things are a fraction of

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<v Speaker 1>what they were at for retail price. Are retailers ever

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<v Speaker 1>losing when they reduce things to those smaller amounts.

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<v Speaker 4>So overall, good retailers aren't ever losing. In those instances,

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<v Speaker 4>they might take a loss. We might call that a

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<v Speaker 4>lost leader. So you might have an instance where someone

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<v Speaker 4>comes in, sees an amazing sale, and that amazing sale

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<v Speaker 4>was enough to bring them in. They purchase that, and

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<v Speaker 4>the retailer loses, but then they might purchase something else,

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<v Speaker 4>and therefore they make their money back that way. So

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<v Speaker 4>it's about bringing you into the store and then expanding

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<v Speaker 4>how much you buy. But most of the time, unless

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<v Speaker 4>it's to remove stock, they'll always make sure they make

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<v Speaker 4>a profit. That's how they keep themselves in business.

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<v Speaker 1>How important, too, is a setup of a store, and

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<v Speaker 1>especially for those retailers that are like a chain and

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<v Speaker 1>pretty much essentially every store looks exactly the same. How

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<v Speaker 1>important is the structure of a store as to how

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<v Speaker 1>much money we might spend in it.

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<v Speaker 3>There's a lot of research that says that where you

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<v Speaker 3>structure a store.

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<v Speaker 4>Is really important. You walk into a store and you

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<v Speaker 4>often see flowers, and you'll smell nice things, and you'll

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<v Speaker 4>hear nice music, which puts you into a positive kind

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<v Speaker 4>of frame, and then you're going to walk around the

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<v Speaker 4>store in a positive state of mind, which means you're

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<v Speaker 4>more likely to purchase. So there's little things like that

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<v Speaker 4>which are just sort of perceptual structures of the store.

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<v Speaker 4>But then where you put certain items that are impulse

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<v Speaker 4>purchase matters too. So if you put them at the

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<v Speaker 4>ends or the front of the aisle, if you put

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<v Speaker 4>them right at the end, people are in a kind

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<v Speaker 4>of rushed mindset or a quickened mindset, so they're not

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<v Speaker 4>really controlling their behaviors as much, and so they're more

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<v Speaker 4>likely to make that impulse.

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<v Speaker 1>Why do some stores go berserk with the four sale signs?

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<v Speaker 1>Like there are certain retailers who literally plaster the entire

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<v Speaker 1>frontage of the store, every space that is available on

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<v Speaker 1>every shelf is covered in tickets and signage, and then

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<v Speaker 1>others tend to really keep it quite simple, Like what

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<v Speaker 1>is the difference between those who go completely over the

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<v Speaker 1>top with sale signage and those who just pair it

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<v Speaker 1>right back?

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<v Speaker 4>It's interesting. It says a lot about the brand, and

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<v Speaker 4>it says a lot about the experience that you're likely

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<v Speaker 4>to have. So the ones that put sale signs all

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<v Speaker 4>over the front that's going to bring people in because

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<v Speaker 4>they feel like they're going to get some kind of

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<v Speaker 4>reward or deal. It's a big sign post that says

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<v Speaker 4>you're likely to get a great experience here from a

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<v Speaker 4>value perspective, And so most of the time we go

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<v Speaker 4>into those stores, people aren't really comparing with other stores.

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<v Speaker 4>If this is better, some people might look on their stones,

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<v Speaker 4>but most of the time you've sold us on the

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<v Speaker 4>idea that whatever we get in this store now is

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<v Speaker 4>going to be a great deal.

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<v Speaker 3>So therefore I'm happy. Whereas the ones.

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<v Speaker 4>That don't have as much of the sale thing is

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<v Speaker 4>because they want you to think that their product is premium.

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<v Speaker 4>They want you to think that their product is really good,

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<v Speaker 4>and if it's cheap or if it's constantly kind of reduced,

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<v Speaker 4>it might make it seem not that good anymore, so

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<v Speaker 4>is it really worth having in the first place. So

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<v Speaker 4>it depends on the category that you're buying, But both

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<v Speaker 4>of those levers can kind of be pulled depending on

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<v Speaker 4>what shopping experience people are having.

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<v Speaker 1>Is there any way, in your opinion, we can avoid

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<v Speaker 1>being influenced by these or is it just we're at

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<v Speaker 1>this point now where we are so influenced by all

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<v Speaker 1>of the psychology that's gone into house stores and online

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<v Speaker 1>retailers bring us in with their email campaigns, etc. Is

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<v Speaker 1>there any avoiding it now?

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<v Speaker 4>I think to some level we kind of enjoy it

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<v Speaker 4>as much as not having much money or spending lots

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<v Speaker 4>of money, and the feeling after isn't great. There's a

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<v Speaker 4>bit of a rush in the shopping experiencing getting a

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<v Speaker 4>good deal. There's a bit of a rush in a

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<v Speaker 4>thing like you got something out of that, or you

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<v Speaker 4>were able to be a little bit clever and you're

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<v Speaker 4>purchase there. I would say if you want people to

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<v Speaker 4>avoid it, it's to try and stop those emotional reactions.

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<v Speaker 3>Stop those moments.

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<v Speaker 4>Where you go, oh, I just want to get a

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<v Speaker 4>good deal, or I just really want to have that product,

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<v Speaker 4>or I can't possibly not get this product now because

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<v Speaker 4>it won't be on sale next week. You have to

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<v Speaker 4>stop those emotional reactions by probably being really clear on

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<v Speaker 4>what your budget is. What are my budgets for my needs,

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<v Speaker 4>my wants, my nice to haves, and my luxuries, and

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<v Speaker 4>then if you kind of bracket that out that way,

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<v Speaker 4>you're probably.

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<v Speaker 3>Unlikely to be taken over by the emotional stuff.

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<v Speaker 4>But you know, if you enjoy shopping, and you enjoy

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<v Speaker 4>that experience, go for it.

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<v Speaker 1>There are a ton of triggers that kick in when

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<v Speaker 1>you head to the shops. Sales are competitive, and that

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<v Speaker 1>brings out our basic instinct to win. That's why they

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<v Speaker 1>do flash sales and limited until stock's last promotions. It

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<v Speaker 1>makes us panic that will miss out, and that fomo

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<v Speaker 1>can also turn into the need to own it first,

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<v Speaker 1>the first new smartphone release, the first pair of limited

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<v Speaker 1>run sneaks, or the active we're being promoted by that

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<v Speaker 1>major celebrity influencer. We love the idea that we're saving money,

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<v Speaker 1>even though in a sale where we buy items we

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<v Speaker 1>don't need, we're spending more. Most of us will tell

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<v Speaker 1>you how much we saved at the checkout, but arna's

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<v Speaker 1>forth coming with how much we shelled out for it.

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<v Speaker 4>We love to brag about how little money we spent

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<v Speaker 4>ourselves because.

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<v Speaker 3>The art isn't the savings. You never paid full price.

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<v Speaker 3>Like my mom, her catch raise is guess how much.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the same as gamblers telling you about their winnings

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<v Speaker 1>rather than their outlay.

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<v Speaker 5>We also get.

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<v Speaker 1>Emotionally invested in items and if we miss out, like

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<v Speaker 1>if you put something in your cart and then find

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<v Speaker 1>it's out of stock when you proceed to check out,

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<v Speaker 1>you may still go and buy something else to fill

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<v Speaker 1>the whole the loss of that item has left behind.

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<v Speaker 1>So how do we identify our triggers and then make

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<v Speaker 1>sure we spend deficiently rather than emotionally. Carlie Dover is

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<v Speaker 1>the director of the Australian Association of Psychologists. Carlie, A

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<v Speaker 1>lot of the comparisons made when experts talk about the

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<v Speaker 1>high that we get from snagging a bargain is that

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<v Speaker 1>it's in line with the high you get from gambling

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<v Speaker 1>or from drugs and alcohol, that it actually gives you

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<v Speaker 1>that same dopamine hit. Is there truth to that comparison?

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<v Speaker 1>It seems a bit extreme.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, our brains can't really differentiate much between particular behaviors,

0:10:48.385 --> 0:10:51.865
<v Speaker 5>and if our brains release that's sudden rush of dopamine,

0:10:52.225 --> 0:10:54.825
<v Speaker 5>it feels good. So we'll continue to do it whatever

0:10:54.865 --> 0:10:55.305
<v Speaker 5>it might be.

0:10:56.105 --> 0:10:58.785
<v Speaker 1>But what about the aftermath, Because, as we know, when

0:10:58.785 --> 0:11:00.985
<v Speaker 1>you have a gambling addiction, if you lose, or if

0:11:00.985 --> 0:11:03.425
<v Speaker 1>you have a drug and alcohol addiction and the effects

0:11:03.425 --> 0:11:06.385
<v Speaker 1>of that drug or alcohol wears off, do we have

0:11:06.465 --> 0:11:10.225
<v Speaker 1>the same thing with shopping. If we do get that high,

0:11:10.265 --> 0:11:12.625
<v Speaker 1>as there a come down after there.

0:11:12.545 --> 0:11:15.865
<v Speaker 5>Is, it is a bit of an empty wind. Neuroscience

0:11:15.985 --> 0:11:20.625
<v Speaker 5>tells us that dopamine feels really good if we have

0:11:20.705 --> 0:11:23.225
<v Speaker 5>to work a bit harder to get whatever the reward

0:11:23.345 --> 0:11:25.545
<v Speaker 5>might be, and to work a bit harder. I don't

0:11:25.585 --> 0:11:27.625
<v Speaker 5>mean go from one shop to another shop to get

0:11:27.665 --> 0:11:30.905
<v Speaker 5>a different sale. I do mean, you know, gardening for

0:11:30.985 --> 0:11:34.385
<v Speaker 5>a while and then over time having you know, different

0:11:34.385 --> 0:11:38.705
<v Speaker 5>flowers or different vegetables grow. It's that sustained work to

0:11:38.785 --> 0:11:42.265
<v Speaker 5>then get that reward that feels most pleasurable and the

0:11:42.305 --> 0:11:46.865
<v Speaker 5>most fulfilling. But these empty kind of activities such as

0:11:46.945 --> 0:11:51.425
<v Speaker 5>gambling or participating in sales that might feel good in

0:11:51.425 --> 0:11:53.945
<v Speaker 5>the moment, but you don't actually need, they can feel

0:11:54.145 --> 0:11:55.505
<v Speaker 5>like a bit of an empty high.

0:11:56.185 --> 0:12:00.185
<v Speaker 1>Do we need to look at why we're chasing that high?

0:12:00.345 --> 0:12:01.985
<v Speaker 1>Like I know, a lot of people say that they

0:12:02.065 --> 0:12:05.905
<v Speaker 1>find shopping and browsing relaxing. Others see it more like

0:12:05.945 --> 0:12:08.505
<v Speaker 1>the thrill of it, treasure hunt. And some people say

0:12:08.505 --> 0:12:10.505
<v Speaker 1>that they do it just because they've been feeling really

0:12:10.545 --> 0:12:13.745
<v Speaker 1>lonely and it's a way to kind of socially connect

0:12:13.785 --> 0:12:16.145
<v Speaker 1>with other humans. Do we need to look into the

0:12:16.185 --> 0:12:19.345
<v Speaker 1>motivation for us going to shops in the first place

0:12:19.905 --> 0:12:22.385
<v Speaker 1>and use that as a way to maybe keep more

0:12:22.385 --> 0:12:23.825
<v Speaker 1>of our dollars in our own pockets.

0:12:24.225 --> 0:12:28.505
<v Speaker 5>I definitely think so, and I think longer term while

0:12:28.665 --> 0:12:31.225
<v Speaker 5>shopping again in the short term might scratch an itch

0:12:31.825 --> 0:12:34.425
<v Speaker 5>or make us feel connected or like we're engaging in

0:12:34.465 --> 0:12:36.785
<v Speaker 5>somewhat of a distraction if something else in our life

0:12:36.825 --> 0:12:40.025
<v Speaker 5>doesn't feel too good, thinking about the long term, what

0:12:40.145 --> 0:12:41.865
<v Speaker 5>is actually going to make me feel better about this

0:12:41.985 --> 0:12:46.345
<v Speaker 5>situation or give me longer term memories in my life

0:12:46.385 --> 0:12:49.785
<v Speaker 5>for this year. If I don't go shopping today, and

0:12:49.865 --> 0:12:52.745
<v Speaker 5>if you need something, that's fine, go for it. But

0:12:52.785 --> 0:12:54.905
<v Speaker 5>if you're finding yourself in a bit of a habit

0:12:55.145 --> 0:12:57.065
<v Speaker 5>where you don't have as much money as you'd like to,

0:12:57.625 --> 0:12:59.785
<v Speaker 5>where you aren't doing things like going on holiday or

0:12:59.825 --> 0:13:04.585
<v Speaker 5>making new memories or having new experiences because you are

0:13:04.665 --> 0:13:08.825
<v Speaker 5>shopping and engaging in sales more than you objectively need to,

0:13:09.465 --> 0:13:12.065
<v Speaker 5>I absolutely think it's time to review what might be

0:13:12.145 --> 0:13:13.025
<v Speaker 5>driving that behavior.

0:13:13.585 --> 0:13:17.545
<v Speaker 1>We spoke to Matt just before, who talked about trying

0:13:17.585 --> 0:13:21.505
<v Speaker 1>to find ways to regulate our emotions when we go shopping,

0:13:22.305 --> 0:13:25.985
<v Speaker 1>and maybe that a way to stop that impulse buying

0:13:26.305 --> 0:13:28.905
<v Speaker 1>is to walk away and think about it, and then

0:13:28.945 --> 0:13:30.625
<v Speaker 1>if you've thought about it and you still want to

0:13:30.625 --> 0:13:32.745
<v Speaker 1>make the effort to go back and buy it, then

0:13:33.385 --> 0:13:36.665
<v Speaker 1>that's kind of regulating that emotion enough rather than just

0:13:36.705 --> 0:13:38.145
<v Speaker 1>buying it then and there on the spot. Do you

0:13:38.225 --> 0:13:41.625
<v Speaker 1>think that is a good tactic to take into the sales.

0:13:42.345 --> 0:13:44.425
<v Speaker 5>I think that's fantastic, And you can do that even

0:13:44.465 --> 0:13:47.585
<v Speaker 5>when you're Internet shopping. Put something in your cart, leave

0:13:47.625 --> 0:13:49.945
<v Speaker 5>it for the next day if you still want to

0:13:50.105 --> 0:13:52.945
<v Speaker 5>get it, but if you don't, again, move on to

0:13:53.065 --> 0:13:55.705
<v Speaker 5>something else. Because I'd also just like to say that

0:13:55.945 --> 0:14:01.105
<v Speaker 5>shopping centers or shops, they're all designed to keep you engaged.

0:14:01.305 --> 0:14:06.545
<v Speaker 5>And their music, the temperature, the colors, the signs, all

0:14:06.625 --> 0:14:10.585
<v Speaker 5>of these things are designed to draw you in and

0:14:10.625 --> 0:14:13.265
<v Speaker 5>make you think that you're getting an amazing sale and

0:14:13.825 --> 0:14:16.705
<v Speaker 5>hit that urgency mood where if I don't get it now,

0:14:16.745 --> 0:14:18.985
<v Speaker 5>I'll never be able to get it. And we know

0:14:19.065 --> 0:14:21.545
<v Speaker 5>that's not true when we're not around a shopping center,

0:14:22.025 --> 0:14:24.265
<v Speaker 5>but in that moment, it might just be easier, it

0:14:24.345 --> 0:14:27.785
<v Speaker 5>might feel better to do it. Then waiting is always helpful.

0:14:32.105 --> 0:14:33.625
<v Speaker 1>So next time you say to your mates that you're

0:14:33.665 --> 0:14:36.705
<v Speaker 1>off for a bit of retail therapy. Remember you're actually

0:14:36.745 --> 0:14:39.745
<v Speaker 1>treating yourself with a little dose of dopamine and that

0:14:39.785 --> 0:14:44.905
<v Speaker 1>feel good hormone is strong. Thanks for tuning in today, friends,

0:14:44.945 --> 0:14:47.465
<v Speaker 1>taking some time to feed your mind. The quickie is

0:14:47.505 --> 0:14:50.745
<v Speaker 1>produced by me, Claire Murphy and our executive producer Caliborg,

0:14:50.985 --> 0:15:01.545
<v Speaker 1>with audio production my Tomline