Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mama Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hi Nothing to Wear listeners.
Speaker 2: I'm Grace Rufrey, the producer of Nothing to Wear and
Speaker 2: the host of the evening headlines on our news podcast,
Speaker 2: The Quickie. With the Black Friday sales just around the
Speaker 2: corner and some of them have even started, I wanted
Speaker 2: to share an episode of the Quikie to help you
Speaker 2: prepare for the shopping frenzy. It's all about making sure
Speaker 2: you're buying what you truly need or will actually use,
Speaker 2: because let's be honest, we've all been tempted by those
Speaker 2: irresistible seventy five percent off signs. In this episode, The
Speaker 2: Quickie host Claire Murphy dives into why we sometimes can't
Speaker 2: resist a sale, even when our budget says otherwise. She
Speaker 2: speaks with experts in psychology and behavioral science to unpack
Speaker 2: the allure of discounts and explore why that rush of
Speaker 2: dopamine from a bargain can feel so satisfying. Get ready
Speaker 2: to shop smarter and stay in control this Black Friday.
Speaker 2: This is the Quiki and the Psychology of sales.
Speaker 3: You count mess it our genuine summer sale.
Speaker 2: So when you buy one, you get one free.
Speaker 3: Up to twenty five percent of fronts of half of
Speaker 3: discount and sale right, loads of styles, tons of choice,
Speaker 3: and store white savings.
Speaker 1: How many times have you said to yourself, is sticking
Speaker 1: to your savings plan this time? You won't buy any
Speaker 1: new clothes for the next six months. You won't even
Speaker 1: go shopping for anything other than the essentials, only to
Speaker 1: find yourself at the counter holding an impulse by because
Speaker 1: that percentage off red and white sales sign out the
Speaker 1: front spoke to you fashion technology, homewares. It doesn't matter
Speaker 1: what the thing is. If it is eighty percent off,
Speaker 1: it all of a sudden becomes irresistible. We have been
Speaker 1: so well trained in sales psychology that retailers have set
Speaker 1: appointments with us throughout the year where they know we're
Speaker 1: more likely to go on a spending spree. January is
Speaker 1: often buy one, get one free month instead of thee
Speaker 1: of variety because retailers are keen to move out the
Speaker 1: leftover stock from the Christmas period. Then we head into
Speaker 1: February's Valentine's Day, where florist's cash in through to Mother's
Speaker 1: Day in May, there's click frenzy and a financial year
Speaker 1: which we now lovingly refer to as earfus, Black Friday,
Speaker 1: Cyber Monday, Christmas all the way through to Boxing Day
Speaker 1: at the end of December. All year round, we are
Speaker 1: geared to save, save, save, when really what we're doing
Speaker 1: is spend, spend spent. How many ways are retailers working
Speaker 1: their ways into our brains when it comes to sales time.
Speaker 1: Matt Plant is the head of behavioral Sciences thinker at
Speaker 1: Thinker Bell. Matt, why are sales signs red and white?
Speaker 1: What is it about that color scheme that draws us in?
Speaker 4: It's mostly because it works, which sounds like a simple
Speaker 4: thing to say, but people have explored lots of different
Speaker 4: colors for sales. Yellows and reds work really well, and
Speaker 4: there's lots of different things to just say, people are
Speaker 4: attracted to it, So it catches people's attention. Reds the
Speaker 4: color that kind of stands out up and we've been
Speaker 4: trained to see that combination of colors in this setting
Speaker 4: of environments says there's an opportunity for some kind of
Speaker 4: reward over there.
Speaker 3: It's usually a sale.
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about that reward for a second, because
Speaker 1: experts say that when we are out wandering around in
Speaker 1: retail spaces, it takes us less than one second to
Speaker 1: decide whether or not we're going to buy something. How
Speaker 1: do retailers make sure that they make the most of
Speaker 1: those of us who are making those impulse decisions.
Speaker 3: It's really interesting. There's a concept called stopping power.
Speaker 4: So the more likely you are to stop at a
Speaker 4: point in a retail environment, the more likely you are
Speaker 4: to purchase that thing. So basically they're just trying to
Speaker 4: capture attention as much as possible. You'll be walking through
Speaker 4: an aisle and you'll be seeing stickers all over the place.
Speaker 4: You'll be seeing tickets that say sale or here, sale
Speaker 4: or here.
Speaker 3: That'll make you stop. That's enough to push you towards it.
Speaker 1: How important is the language that's used around sales, especially
Speaker 1: in that way that convinces us that we're actually saving
Speaker 1: when really what we're doing is spending.
Speaker 3: It's really important.
Speaker 4: It's language, and there's also presentation, So there's a lot
Speaker 4: of research that goes into the size of the numbers
Speaker 4: that you see, so emphasizing the amount that you're saving,
Speaker 4: the fact that it's bigger makes it feel like it
Speaker 4: is more, and the price being smaller means you feel
Speaker 4: like you are spending less. So it's this weird analogy
Speaker 4: of big means more, small means less, and so it's
Speaker 4: not just necessarily the words that go around it. It's
Speaker 4: also the sizing where it's placed in a particular ticket.
Speaker 4: So there's research that shows that when a number is
Speaker 4: higher up, it feels like it's lighter, so therefore it's less,
Speaker 4: and when it's lowered down it's heavier, so it feels
Speaker 4: like it's more. So all of those things kind of
Speaker 4: play into it as well as just words like saving
Speaker 4: or off. Yet it's also the sizing and shapes of things.
Speaker 1: When retailers are reducing prices like this, obviously, so much
Speaker 1: goes into how much they charge us when it's full
Speaker 1: retail price. I mean, there's so many factors from manufacture
Speaker 1: all the way through to you know, rent and wages
Speaker 1: and all the things that go into costing and pricing
Speaker 1: a certain product. When they are having sales that seem
Speaker 1: too good to be true, you know those eighty percent
Speaker 1: off kind of things where things are a fraction of
Speaker 1: what they were at for retail price. Are retailers ever
Speaker 1: losing when they reduce things to those smaller amounts.
Speaker 4: So overall, good retailers aren't ever losing. In those instances,
Speaker 4: they might take a loss. We might call that a
Speaker 4: lost leader. So you might have an instance where someone
Speaker 4: comes in, sees an amazing sale, and that amazing sale
Speaker 4: was enough to bring them in. They purchase that, and
Speaker 4: the retailer loses, but then they might purchase something else,
Speaker 4: and therefore they make their money back that way. So
Speaker 4: it's about bringing you into the store and then expanding
Speaker 4: how much you buy. But most of the time, unless
Speaker 4: it's to remove stock, they'll always make sure they make
Speaker 4: a profit. That's how they keep themselves in business.
Speaker 1: How important, too, is a setup of a store, and
Speaker 1: especially for those retailers that are like a chain and
Speaker 1: pretty much essentially every store looks exactly the same. How
Speaker 1: important is the structure of a store as to how
Speaker 1: much money we might spend in it.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of research that says that where you
Speaker 3: structure a store.
Speaker 4: Is really important. You walk into a store and you
Speaker 4: often see flowers, and you'll smell nice things, and you'll
Speaker 4: hear nice music, which puts you into a positive kind
Speaker 4: of frame, and then you're going to walk around the
Speaker 4: store in a positive state of mind, which means you're
Speaker 4: more likely to purchase. So there's little things like that
Speaker 4: which are just sort of perceptual structures of the store.
Speaker 4: But then where you put certain items that are impulse
Speaker 4: purchase matters too. So if you put them at the
Speaker 4: ends or the front of the aisle, if you put
Speaker 4: them right at the end, people are in a kind
Speaker 4: of rushed mindset or a quickened mindset, so they're not
Speaker 4: really controlling their behaviors as much, and so they're more
Speaker 4: likely to make that impulse.
Speaker 1: Why do some stores go berserk with the four sale signs?
Speaker 1: Like there are certain retailers who literally plaster the entire
Speaker 1: frontage of the store, every space that is available on
Speaker 1: every shelf is covered in tickets and signage, and then
Speaker 1: others tend to really keep it quite simple, Like what
Speaker 1: is the difference between those who go completely over the
Speaker 1: top with sale signage and those who just pair it
Speaker 1: right back?
Speaker 4: It's interesting. It says a lot about the brand, and
Speaker 4: it says a lot about the experience that you're likely
Speaker 4: to have. So the ones that put sale signs all
Speaker 4: over the front that's going to bring people in because
Speaker 4: they feel like they're going to get some kind of
Speaker 4: reward or deal. It's a big sign post that says
Speaker 4: you're likely to get a great experience here from a
Speaker 4: value perspective, And so most of the time we go
Speaker 4: into those stores, people aren't really comparing with other stores.
Speaker 4: If this is better, some people might look on their stones,
Speaker 4: but most of the time you've sold us on the
Speaker 4: idea that whatever we get in this store now is
Speaker 4: going to be a great deal.
Speaker 3: So therefore I'm happy. Whereas the ones.
Speaker 4: That don't have as much of the sale thing is
Speaker 4: because they want you to think that their product is premium.
Speaker 4: They want you to think that their product is really good,
Speaker 4: and if it's cheap or if it's constantly kind of reduced,
Speaker 4: it might make it seem not that good anymore, so
Speaker 4: is it really worth having in the first place. So
Speaker 4: it depends on the category that you're buying, But both
Speaker 4: of those levers can kind of be pulled depending on
Speaker 4: what shopping experience people are having.
Speaker 1: Is there any way, in your opinion, we can avoid
Speaker 1: being influenced by these or is it just we're at
Speaker 1: this point now where we are so influenced by all
Speaker 1: of the psychology that's gone into house stores and online
Speaker 1: retailers bring us in with their email campaigns, etc. Is
Speaker 1: there any avoiding it now?
Speaker 4: I think to some level we kind of enjoy it
Speaker 4: as much as not having much money or spending lots
Speaker 4: of money, and the feeling after isn't great. There's a
Speaker 4: bit of a rush in the shopping experiencing getting a
Speaker 4: good deal. There's a bit of a rush in a
Speaker 4: thing like you got something out of that, or you
Speaker 4: were able to be a little bit clever and you're
Speaker 4: purchase there. I would say if you want people to
Speaker 4: avoid it, it's to try and stop those emotional reactions.
Speaker 3: Stop those moments.
Speaker 4: Where you go, oh, I just want to get a
Speaker 4: good deal, or I just really want to have that product,
Speaker 4: or I can't possibly not get this product now because
Speaker 4: it won't be on sale next week. You have to
Speaker 4: stop those emotional reactions by probably being really clear on
Speaker 4: what your budget is. What are my budgets for my needs,
Speaker 4: my wants, my nice to haves, and my luxuries, and
Speaker 4: then if you kind of bracket that out that way,
Speaker 4: you're probably.
Speaker 3: Unlikely to be taken over by the emotional stuff.
Speaker 4: But you know, if you enjoy shopping, and you enjoy
Speaker 4: that experience, go for it.
Speaker 1: There are a ton of triggers that kick in when
Speaker 1: you head to the shops. Sales are competitive, and that
Speaker 1: brings out our basic instinct to win. That's why they
Speaker 1: do flash sales and limited until stock's last promotions. It
Speaker 1: makes us panic that will miss out, and that fomo
Speaker 1: can also turn into the need to own it first,
Speaker 1: the first new smartphone release, the first pair of limited
Speaker 1: run sneaks, or the active we're being promoted by that
Speaker 1: major celebrity influencer. We love the idea that we're saving money,
Speaker 1: even though in a sale where we buy items we
Speaker 1: don't need, we're spending more. Most of us will tell
Speaker 1: you how much we saved at the checkout, but arna's
Speaker 1: forth coming with how much we shelled out for it.
Speaker 4: We love to brag about how little money we spent
Speaker 4: ourselves because.
Speaker 3: The art isn't the savings. You never paid full price.
Speaker 3: Like my mom, her catch raise is guess how much.
Speaker 1: It's the same as gamblers telling you about their winnings
Speaker 1: rather than their outlay.
Speaker 5: We also get.
Speaker 1: Emotionally invested in items and if we miss out, like
Speaker 1: if you put something in your cart and then find
Speaker 1: it's out of stock when you proceed to check out,
Speaker 1: you may still go and buy something else to fill
Speaker 1: the whole the loss of that item has left behind.
Speaker 1: So how do we identify our triggers and then make
Speaker 1: sure we spend deficiently rather than emotionally. Carlie Dover is
Speaker 1: the director of the Australian Association of Psychologists. Carlie, A
Speaker 1: lot of the comparisons made when experts talk about the
Speaker 1: high that we get from snagging a bargain is that
Speaker 1: it's in line with the high you get from gambling
Speaker 1: or from drugs and alcohol, that it actually gives you
Speaker 1: that same dopamine hit. Is there truth to that comparison?
Speaker 1: It seems a bit extreme.
Speaker 5: Yeah, our brains can't really differentiate much between particular behaviors,
Speaker 5: and if our brains release that's sudden rush of dopamine,
Speaker 5: it feels good. So we'll continue to do it whatever
Speaker 5: it might be.
Speaker 1: But what about the aftermath, Because, as we know, when
Speaker 1: you have a gambling addiction, if you lose, or if
Speaker 1: you have a drug and alcohol addiction and the effects
Speaker 1: of that drug or alcohol wears off, do we have
Speaker 1: the same thing with shopping. If we do get that high,
Speaker 1: as there a come down after there.
Speaker 5: Is, it is a bit of an empty wind. Neuroscience
Speaker 5: tells us that dopamine feels really good if we have
Speaker 5: to work a bit harder to get whatever the reward
Speaker 5: might be, and to work a bit harder. I don't
Speaker 5: mean go from one shop to another shop to get
Speaker 5: a different sale. I do mean, you know, gardening for
Speaker 5: a while and then over time having you know, different
Speaker 5: flowers or different vegetables grow. It's that sustained work to
Speaker 5: then get that reward that feels most pleasurable and the
Speaker 5: most fulfilling. But these empty kind of activities such as
Speaker 5: gambling or participating in sales that might feel good in
Speaker 5: the moment, but you don't actually need, they can feel
Speaker 5: like a bit of an empty high.
Speaker 1: Do we need to look at why we're chasing that high?
Speaker 1: Like I know, a lot of people say that they
Speaker 1: find shopping and browsing relaxing. Others see it more like
Speaker 1: the thrill of it, treasure hunt. And some people say
Speaker 1: that they do it just because they've been feeling really
Speaker 1: lonely and it's a way to kind of socially connect
Speaker 1: with other humans. Do we need to look into the
Speaker 1: motivation for us going to shops in the first place
Speaker 1: and use that as a way to maybe keep more
Speaker 1: of our dollars in our own pockets.
Speaker 5: I definitely think so, and I think longer term while
Speaker 5: shopping again in the short term might scratch an itch
Speaker 5: or make us feel connected or like we're engaging in
Speaker 5: somewhat of a distraction if something else in our life
Speaker 5: doesn't feel too good, thinking about the long term, what
Speaker 5: is actually going to make me feel better about this
Speaker 5: situation or give me longer term memories in my life
Speaker 5: for this year. If I don't go shopping today, and
Speaker 5: if you need something, that's fine, go for it. But
Speaker 5: if you're finding yourself in a bit of a habit
Speaker 5: where you don't have as much money as you'd like to,
Speaker 5: where you aren't doing things like going on holiday or
Speaker 5: making new memories or having new experiences because you are
Speaker 5: shopping and engaging in sales more than you objectively need to,
Speaker 5: I absolutely think it's time to review what might be
Speaker 5: driving that behavior.
Speaker 1: We spoke to Matt just before, who talked about trying
Speaker 1: to find ways to regulate our emotions when we go shopping,
Speaker 1: and maybe that a way to stop that impulse buying
Speaker 1: is to walk away and think about it, and then
Speaker 1: if you've thought about it and you still want to
Speaker 1: make the effort to go back and buy it, then
Speaker 1: that's kind of regulating that emotion enough rather than just
Speaker 1: buying it then and there on the spot. Do you
Speaker 1: think that is a good tactic to take into the sales.
Speaker 5: I think that's fantastic, And you can do that even
Speaker 5: when you're Internet shopping. Put something in your cart, leave
Speaker 5: it for the next day if you still want to
Speaker 5: get it, but if you don't, again, move on to
Speaker 5: something else. Because I'd also just like to say that
Speaker 5: shopping centers or shops, they're all designed to keep you engaged.
Speaker 5: And their music, the temperature, the colors, the signs, all
Speaker 5: of these things are designed to draw you in and
Speaker 5: make you think that you're getting an amazing sale and
Speaker 5: hit that urgency mood where if I don't get it now,
Speaker 5: I'll never be able to get it. And we know
Speaker 5: that's not true when we're not around a shopping center,
Speaker 5: but in that moment, it might just be easier, it
Speaker 5: might feel better to do it. Then waiting is always helpful.
Speaker 1: So next time you say to your mates that you're
Speaker 1: off for a bit of retail therapy. Remember you're actually
Speaker 1: treating yourself with a little dose of dopamine and that
Speaker 1: feel good hormone is strong. Thanks for tuning in today, friends,
Speaker 1: taking some time to feed your mind. The quickie is
Speaker 1: produced by me, Claire Murphy and our executive producer Caliborg,
Speaker 1: with audio production my Tomline