WEBVTT - The Great Lock In Has Just Begun 0:00:10.622 --> 0:00:13.341 You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. 0:00:13.822 --> 0:00:17.182 Muma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:17.222 --> 0:00:22.701 that this podcast is recorded on Welcome to Mumma out Loud. 0:00:22.862 --> 0:00:26.262 What women are actually talking about on Wednesday, the tenth 0:00:26.302 --> 0:00:27.262 of September. 0:00:27.662 --> 0:00:29.582 I am Jesse Stevens. 0:00:29.182 --> 0:00:31.862 I am Amelia Lester, and I am Stacy Hicks. 0:00:31.862 --> 0:00:34.702 Feeling in for Holly and Holly is off today. 0:00:34.902 --> 0:00:38.302 Stacy, you busted the door down because you it's not customary, 0:00:38.382 --> 0:00:39.181 but you say. 0:00:38.982 --> 0:00:40.302 You have a midweek recommendation. 0:00:40.462 --> 0:00:43.062 Yeah, I'm just breaking the rules. I busted in. I've 0:00:43.102 --> 0:00:45.622 got one. It's good. I promise, I promise it's good. 0:00:45.742 --> 0:00:47.022 Well, we're going to save it till the end of 0:00:47.102 --> 0:00:50.262 the show. Here is what is on our agenda for today. 0:00:50.582 --> 0:00:53.702 There's been an update to the infamous Coldplay concert affair 0:00:54.022 --> 0:00:57.422 and it will change the way you view relationships. 0:00:57.742 --> 0:01:00.622 There are two new species of men that we need 0:01:00.662 --> 0:01:02.582 to be looking out for in the wild. 0:01:02.502 --> 0:01:05.622 And the great lock in. Why all your goals suddenly 0:01:05.661 --> 0:01:10.342 feel urgent? And self optimization is very much on the agenda. 0:01:10.422 --> 0:01:16.342 But first, in case you missed it, a new season 0:01:16.342 --> 0:01:17.622 of Succession Disdrupped. 0:01:17.942 --> 0:01:19.502 Give it to Me please just kidding. 0:01:19.662 --> 0:01:22.942 What actually happened was the Murdoch family, on whom the 0:01:22.982 --> 0:01:27.062 TV show Succession is based, have finally figured out how 0:01:27.062 --> 0:01:29.902 to divide up ninety four year old Rupert Murdoch's billions. 0:01:29.982 --> 0:01:31.542 I know you were worried for them. 0:01:31.342 --> 0:01:32.301 It's so stressful. 0:01:32.742 --> 0:01:36.181 What actually happened was apparently they hadn't even thought about 0:01:36.222 --> 0:01:39.502 this until they started watching Succession, and then they looked 0:01:39.542 --> 0:01:41.622 at each other and said, hang on, we've got to 0:01:41.662 --> 0:01:44.382 figure out what to do with these billions because Rupert 0:01:44.622 --> 0:01:48.382 will probably slip his mortal coil soon. So this cued 0:01:48.622 --> 0:01:52.102 many years of infighting, many many years. They ended up 0:01:52.142 --> 0:01:54.222 in a court room in Nevada, which is in the 0:01:54.262 --> 0:01:56.822 middle of the desert. Apparently there's a state laws that 0:01:56.822 --> 0:01:59.142 are a bit more flexible than in other states, and 0:01:59.182 --> 0:02:02.382 they all started fighting each other and they figured out 0:02:02.382 --> 0:02:05.982 what to do. Let me explain how they figured it out. 0:02:06.142 --> 0:02:10.142 There are four older children from Rupert Murdoch's first two marriages, 0:02:10.341 --> 0:02:12.942 Kendall Connor, Ship. 0:02:15.181 --> 0:02:16.262 And the one who gets nothing. 0:02:17.341 --> 0:02:21.422 There are two from his marriage to Wendy Dang. We 0:02:21.662 --> 0:02:24.182 can set those two aside. They just want the money. 0:02:24.222 --> 0:02:26.342 They're not interested in the power so we don't have 0:02:26.382 --> 0:02:28.221 to worry about them. We're just talking about the four 0:02:28.262 --> 0:02:31.822 older kids from the two first marriages. The problem is 0:02:31.862 --> 0:02:35.862 they don't agree politically. Lachlan Murdock, who was Rupert's favorite, 0:02:36.262 --> 0:02:39.102 he's all in on Fox News, which is how Rupert 0:02:39.102 --> 0:02:41.542 has made a lot of his money. He loves the 0:02:41.542 --> 0:02:44.382 fact that Fox News pushed Donald Trump into the presidency. 0:02:44.582 --> 0:02:47.022 He's a big conservative. Some people say he's even more 0:02:47.062 --> 0:02:49.102 right wing than Rupert, and he wanted to go full 0:02:49.102 --> 0:02:53.022 steam ahead with Fox News. The other three older siblings 0:02:53.222 --> 0:02:56.182 not fans of Fox News, not fans of Donald Trump, 0:02:56.302 --> 0:02:59.342 not fans of the conservative news empire, and they wanted 0:02:59.382 --> 0:03:02.622 to change it. So there were many, many years of 0:03:02.622 --> 0:03:05.502 in fighting. But it turns out that those three older 0:03:05.542 --> 0:03:09.181 siblings have been reassured with the offer of one point 0:03:09.262 --> 0:03:12.302 seven billion dollars to walk away and never interfere with 0:03:12.342 --> 0:03:13.142 Fox News again. 0:03:13.222 --> 0:03:15.222 That's fine, got to do it, Yes, I mean, I'm 0:03:15.222 --> 0:03:15.862 good to me that. 0:03:15.982 --> 0:03:20.102 Yeah, Lachlan takes over Fox News when Rupert dies and 0:03:20.422 --> 0:03:23.942 goes full steam ahead on the conservative bent of Fox News, 0:03:24.142 --> 0:03:27.102 and the other three just get to enjoy some time 0:03:27.142 --> 0:03:29.902 on yachts. They've promised they'll never get involved with Fox 0:03:29.942 --> 0:03:30.742 News ever again. 0:03:30.822 --> 0:03:34.702 Okay, so this is my theory because interesting timing is 0:03:34.702 --> 0:03:37.862 what I'll say. On Friday, Stacy, did you listen to 0:03:37.862 --> 0:03:38.622 Friday's episode? 0:03:38.622 --> 0:03:39.142 I sure did. 0:03:39.262 --> 0:03:42.302 Okay, well, it's an episode you would know that we 0:03:42.382 --> 0:03:45.422 talked about the Google doc that everyone needs to fill 0:03:45.422 --> 0:03:48.342 out the satche before the spreadsheet, right, that you need 0:03:48.342 --> 0:03:50.822 to fill out before you die. So my theory is 0:03:50.822 --> 0:03:53.702 that Rupert listened as he often does, and he went, 0:03:54.142 --> 0:03:55.462 I've got to get to the bottom of this because 0:03:55.502 --> 0:03:57.062 you never know, you never know when your time's up. 0:03:57.102 --> 0:03:59.822 And so he went through he put in his Facebook password, 0:03:59.862 --> 0:04:03.182 Twitter password like details of what he wanted to happen 0:04:03.222 --> 0:04:05.062 with his mail, and then he just wrote Lachlan. 0:04:05.382 --> 0:04:07.822 He just said, Lachlin, and I'm all in on. 0:04:07.742 --> 0:04:11.302 Lock clank go with Lachlin. I think that's probably what happens. 0:04:11.302 --> 0:04:13.342 But I don't think that they're going to be talking 0:04:13.382 --> 0:04:16.782 to each other anytime soon. So James Murdoch, who some 0:04:16.822 --> 0:04:20.022 people say is the smartest Murdoch some people, Yeah, if 0:04:20.062 --> 0:04:24.342 you're listening Rupert and Lachlin, and he has spoken about 0:04:24.421 --> 0:04:27.822 how Rupert was really mean to him all through this 0:04:27.981 --> 0:04:31.421 Rupert's lawyers in a deposition said things to him like 0:04:32.022 --> 0:04:35.862 have you ever done anything successful on your own? And 0:04:35.902 --> 0:04:39.061 also why were you too busy to say Happy Birthday 0:04:39.101 --> 0:04:40.821 to your father when he turned ninety? 0:04:41.142 --> 0:04:42.342 Oh that's petty. 0:04:42.501 --> 0:04:45.142 So James was very upset about all of that, and 0:04:45.462 --> 0:04:48.421 I think it's safe to say that Lachlin and James 0:04:48.741 --> 0:04:51.262 are kind of like the new William and Harry. They're 0:04:51.301 --> 0:04:54.101 not talking and I don't see a reconciliation in the 0:04:54.142 --> 0:04:55.061 cards anytime soon. 0:04:55.342 --> 0:04:58.501 And is important to my millennial reference point is that 0:04:58.582 --> 0:05:01.502 Lachlan is of course married to Sarah Murdoch, form the 0:05:01.541 --> 0:05:04.382 host of Australia's Next Top Models, and that's what matters. 0:05:04.421 --> 0:05:07.861 That's what matters. Yeah, okay, So we always talk about 0:05:07.861 --> 0:05:10.742 how the world's small, fragmented than ever now it's impossible 0:05:10.782 --> 0:05:14.501 to gain mass attention. But nothing quite united the world 0:05:14.702 --> 0:05:18.222 quite like the Coldplay concert chating scandal. Like you would 0:05:18.262 --> 0:05:20.382 have been hard pressed to find someone who didn't know 0:05:20.462 --> 0:05:23.061 the details of that, so you'd probably never even heard 0:05:23.061 --> 0:05:26.942 of the company astronomer before the CEO, Andy Byron, was 0:05:26.981 --> 0:05:30.782 called canoodling on the kiss can That's the only way 0:05:30.782 --> 0:05:34.061 to describe it. Isn't it with his chief people officer, 0:05:34.541 --> 0:05:37.821 Kristin Cabot back in July July. This moves fast. I 0:05:37.821 --> 0:05:41.862 feel like that was yesterday. So despite them reportedly being 0:05:41.902 --> 0:05:45.702 in happy marriages, this occurred. The world made memes about it. 0:05:46.301 --> 0:05:48.141 But there's been an update to the story now that 0:05:48.262 --> 0:05:50.621 might change how you look at it. So it pops 0:05:50.662 --> 0:05:52.541 back up in the headlines again a few weeks ago, 0:05:52.621 --> 0:05:56.262 because Cabot officially filed for divorce last month. But now, 0:05:56.301 --> 0:05:58.902 in a statement to People, Cabots soon to be ex 0:05:59.061 --> 0:06:02.782 husband Andrew Cabbot, has confirmed that they were separated long 0:06:02.861 --> 0:06:06.582 before the Coldplay concert occurred. He says several weeks so 0:06:07.501 --> 0:06:10.101 maybe not long before, but several weeks before, and they 0:06:10.142 --> 0:06:12.541 had made the decision to be divorced before that night. 0:06:13.061 --> 0:06:15.342 Now we don't know if the same is the case 0:06:15.342 --> 0:06:18.501 for Andy Byron. He's never spoken publicly, but you know, 0:06:18.582 --> 0:06:21.702 suffered huge ramifications from this story, had to step down, 0:06:22.181 --> 0:06:24.901 as did Kristin Cabot. Neither of them have spoken, but 0:06:25.181 --> 0:06:28.622 this is a pretty crucial detail in this story that 0:06:28.861 --> 0:06:31.342 no one was privy to, and yet everyone has made 0:06:31.381 --> 0:06:33.981 their decisions about it and moved on. So do you 0:06:34.022 --> 0:06:35.782 feel like, this changes it for you, Jesse. 0:06:36.421 --> 0:06:37.662 It changes everything. 0:06:37.702 --> 0:06:39.462 And I feel like at the time we were saying, 0:06:40.541 --> 0:06:45.021 we don't know what the arrangement of someone else's marriage is. 0:06:45.061 --> 0:06:48.662 We don't know if they're still together. It was two 0:06:48.741 --> 0:06:52.342 seconds of footage and people jumped on so fast, and 0:06:52.462 --> 0:06:58.222 images of her and her husband were released pretty immediately. 0:06:58.941 --> 0:07:01.862 You can't retract the headlines and the comments and all 0:07:01.902 --> 0:07:04.662 of that on the internet forgets fast because even the 0:07:04.662 --> 0:07:06.741 way that it works is that everything's just the new 0:07:06.821 --> 0:07:09.982 update now, but no one's reading the new update because 0:07:10.142 --> 0:07:13.102 the virality and the intensity of that moment has passed. 0:07:13.422 --> 0:07:16.502 So the narrative, it was never about the facts or 0:07:16.821 --> 0:07:20.182 the truth or you know, the reality of their marriage. 0:07:20.302 --> 0:07:26.502 It was about a narrative that was corporate dishonesty. Yeah, 0:07:26.542 --> 0:07:30.022 the way that we are tricked and manipulated and they 0:07:30.102 --> 0:07:32.461 just flaunt the rules, those people at the top of 0:07:32.502 --> 0:07:35.342 the corporate ladder. And we liked that narrative and it 0:07:35.381 --> 0:07:38.581 was neat, and then we moved on and then the 0:07:38.662 --> 0:07:41.461 details sort of don't matter. I'm watching this now and 0:07:41.502 --> 0:07:43.941 I'm like, okay, are we retracting the opinion cases? 0:07:43.982 --> 0:07:46.902 Well, yeah, this just makes me think about an adage 0:07:46.982 --> 0:07:50.422 that my mom has always passed along to me, which is, 0:07:50.582 --> 0:07:53.622 you don't know what is happening in someone else's marriage, 0:07:53.662 --> 0:07:55.941 no matter how much you think you know, even if 0:07:55.941 --> 0:07:58.582 it's your best friend at alone, some random person on 0:07:58.622 --> 0:08:01.942 the internet, you just can never actually tell what the 0:08:02.062 --> 0:08:05.462 dynamic is. And I feel like that's really relevant in 0:08:05.502 --> 0:08:09.102 the Internet age, because the way we think we understand 0:08:09.142 --> 0:08:12.342 people's relationships is what they post on social media or 0:08:12.342 --> 0:08:15.021 how they act on social media. And don't you think 0:08:15.302 --> 0:08:17.582 that the people who talk the most about how happy 0:08:17.582 --> 0:08:19.622 they are on social media are often the ones who 0:08:19.782 --> 0:08:22.102 end up coming out and saying it's all falling apart. 0:08:22.381 --> 0:08:24.782 Yeah, totally. The people who are always loudest about their 0:08:24.821 --> 0:08:27.261 relationships are always the ones that you end up suddenly 0:08:27.302 --> 0:08:29.742 seeing the breakup post from on the notes app on 0:08:29.782 --> 0:08:30.502 their Instagram. 0:08:30.582 --> 0:08:30.902 Yeah. 0:08:31.222 --> 0:08:34.102 Even Jennifer Lopez j LO as I as I know 0:08:34.182 --> 0:08:38.342 her was gushing about how she'd never felt more beautiful 0:08:38.422 --> 0:08:40.102 than when she was with Ben Affleck, and then a 0:08:40.142 --> 0:08:42.302 couple of weeks later they were filing for divorce. Like, 0:08:42.342 --> 0:08:44.982 I feel like you're protesting too much, You trying to 0:08:45.102 --> 0:08:45.822 prove something to. 0:08:45.862 --> 0:08:49.822 Yeah, fast on, fast off, Yeah, I always worry about that, 0:08:49.862 --> 0:08:50.622 and I have a theory. 0:08:50.622 --> 0:08:53.582 We spoke I remember maybe a few months. 0:08:53.262 --> 0:08:56.982 Ago about vow renewals, because remember Brooklyn Beckham and Nicola 0:08:57.062 --> 0:09:00.502 Peltzbeckham were getting their vows renewed, and it's like, oh, 0:09:00.662 --> 0:09:03.382 is that a is that almost like a red flag 0:09:03.542 --> 0:09:06.942 that you kind of feel the need to display your 0:09:06.982 --> 0:09:08.822 love after two years? 0:09:09.062 --> 0:09:09.342 Yeah? 0:09:09.662 --> 0:09:12.702 Yes, And the loudness of it I think makes people 0:09:12.822 --> 0:09:16.582 feel a little bit uncomfortable. 0:09:15.902 --> 0:09:17.822 And yeah, what are you trying to prove? What are 0:09:17.822 --> 0:09:19.262 you trying to say to us? Here? We get it, 0:09:19.342 --> 0:09:20.462 you're married. 0:09:20.582 --> 0:09:21.262 What's behind it? 0:09:21.262 --> 0:09:23.502 But then I was talking to some friends last night 0:09:23.982 --> 0:09:26.542 and have you seen the images from that of our 0:09:26.742 --> 0:09:30.622 renewal with yes, so pictures of it's not just of 0:09:30.622 --> 0:09:33.742 our renewal, Like she's in a wedding dress, Nicola pel Oh, Yeah, 0:09:34.062 --> 0:09:35.582 like and she's looking stunning. 0:09:36.222 --> 0:09:38.942 And we were saying, she's changed her. 0:09:38.822 --> 0:09:40.982 Hair, right, So she was blonde the first time she 0:09:41.022 --> 0:09:43.462 got married, and now she's a brunette. 0:09:43.862 --> 0:09:46.342 She's looking great, And that's key. 0:09:46.542 --> 0:09:49.422 It's key because it feels like when Mea gets a haircut. 0:09:49.542 --> 0:09:51.262 People might not know this, but every time Maya gets 0:09:51.262 --> 0:09:53.622 a haircut. She wants new headshots, and she says. 0:09:53.422 --> 0:09:54.342 We have to make a new art. 0:09:54.662 --> 0:09:56.542 Were like, we can't just design our lives around you 0:09:56.542 --> 0:09:58.622 and your haircut now, because you're changing it all the time. 0:09:59.062 --> 0:10:02.622 So I think that sometimes with marriages and with weddings, 0:10:02.862 --> 0:10:06.582 we think, well, now I'm a brunette wife, and so 0:10:06.662 --> 0:10:08.902 I need images to reflect who I am now, and 0:10:08.942 --> 0:10:11.622 we'll all say how we look back at our pictures 0:10:12.222 --> 0:10:15.702 and go, well, I wouldn't mind redoing a bit of 0:10:15.782 --> 0:10:18.822 a photo shoot. I was six months pregnant. I wouldn't 0:10:18.862 --> 0:10:20.422 mind having a little bit of a waste. 0:10:21.222 --> 0:10:24.022 My wedding day was called Stormageddon in the papers the 0:10:24.062 --> 0:10:26.782 next day, so you can imagine the humidity that I 0:10:26.862 --> 0:10:28.662 had to deal with as a curly girl, so the 0:10:28.742 --> 0:10:31.142 hair was not at prime. I would love to renew 0:10:31.302 --> 0:10:32.222 for that reason alone. 0:10:32.262 --> 0:10:34.862 Your husband doesn't need to be there, no see you 0:10:34.902 --> 0:10:37.102 in a photography me exactly. 0:10:37.622 --> 0:10:39.822 I do have regrets about the fact that I got 0:10:39.862 --> 0:10:42.062 married in maybe the most humid place in the world 0:10:42.062 --> 0:10:44.542 at the most humid time of year, and I wore 0:10:44.582 --> 0:10:47.342 my hair down because I was going for Kate Middleton vibes. 0:10:48.062 --> 0:10:49.662 That was what we thought looked good. 0:10:49.702 --> 0:10:51.902 Back then and now I'm like, that was not very 0:10:51.942 --> 0:10:54.302 practical of me. The hair should have been up. 0:10:54.502 --> 0:10:56.862 We were saying, it's like, you think you're gonna wake 0:10:56.982 --> 0:10:58.822 up on your wedding day because we're sold like this 0:10:58.902 --> 0:11:00.422 kind of princess lie that we're going to wake up 0:11:00.422 --> 0:11:00.662 on our. 0:11:00.622 --> 0:11:02.782 Wedding day and look like a bride. 0:11:03.142 --> 0:11:05.022 But you wake up and you still have your face, 0:11:05.182 --> 0:11:07.342 and you still have your body, and it's still you 0:11:07.662 --> 0:11:09.902 still and you smile like an idiot, and do you 0:11:09.902 --> 0:11:12.702 look at pictures You're like, my photographer was absolutely brilliant, 0:11:13.022 --> 0:11:16.862 but like, I am not the stuff of Bridle magazines. 0:11:16.862 --> 0:11:17.182 I'm not. 0:11:17.742 --> 0:11:20.662 But in my vowur renule, perhaps I will be. Perhaps 0:11:20.702 --> 0:11:21.062 I will be. 0:11:21.222 --> 0:11:24.502 I know is Nicola Peltzberg. And that's why we will 0:11:24.502 --> 0:11:27.182 get a vour nule every two years for the rest 0:11:27.182 --> 0:11:27.502 of time. 0:11:27.942 --> 0:11:31.462 Three and a half sorry, very significant date. 0:11:31.702 --> 0:11:34.222 Time has flown exactly three and a half years. 0:11:34.302 --> 0:11:37.182 I'm just wondering to bring it back to the Coldplay 0:11:37.262 --> 0:11:41.381 couple if what their big mistake was here was that 0:11:41.462 --> 0:11:44.702 they looked so guilty instead of leaning into what we 0:11:44.822 --> 0:11:49.462 now understand to be kind of like hot divorce energy, 0:11:49.822 --> 0:11:53.262 they were feeling themselves there at the Chris Martin serenade 0:11:53.382 --> 0:11:55.062 until the camera came onto them. 0:11:55.422 --> 0:11:56.342 Because they were time. 0:11:56.542 --> 0:11:59.942 That was their crime. They looked guilty rather than embracing 0:12:00.422 --> 0:12:02.822 the energy of divorces. 0:12:03.142 --> 0:12:05.262 There was a great article in the Sidney Morning Herald 0:12:05.302 --> 0:12:07.702 at the time by Tim Duggan, who writes a lot 0:12:07.742 --> 0:12:11.902 about work and career, and he was saying that what workplaces, 0:12:11.942 --> 0:12:16.262 all workplaces should have is something called a relationship. 0:12:15.622 --> 0:12:18.222 Registry, and that's brilliant. 0:12:18.262 --> 0:12:20.502 You need to have it because I wonder if when 0:12:20.542 --> 0:12:22.982 they hid. There's a lot of ways to read it, right, 0:12:23.102 --> 0:12:25.462 it's maybe to protect the children. We don't know if 0:12:25.502 --> 0:12:27.942 the other guy in it. I'm sure like it does 0:12:28.022 --> 0:12:31.942 look like maybe he was still in Yes, but her 0:12:31.982 --> 0:12:34.542 maybe she didn't want our kids to know. Also, the 0:12:34.582 --> 0:12:38.262 workplace might not have known yet. And stats show that 0:12:38.302 --> 0:12:41.022 like between one in three and two in three people 0:12:41.342 --> 0:12:42.822 have had a relationship in the workplace. 0:12:42.862 --> 0:12:43.862 I think I know someone. 0:12:44.702 --> 0:12:45.261 I think that. 0:12:45.262 --> 0:12:48.262 We work as the one in three because anyone else 0:12:48.262 --> 0:12:49.262 had I have. 0:12:49.462 --> 0:12:51.182 I'm also married to my former co. 0:12:51.182 --> 0:12:53.862 Work in three. You're the odd one out of me. 0:12:54.262 --> 0:12:58.342 I cannot imagine doing it, but God bless you well. 0:12:58.422 --> 0:13:00.062 It says that what you should have is like a 0:13:00.102 --> 0:13:04.262 relationship registry where the whole office doesn't need to know, 0:13:04.502 --> 0:13:07.381 but because of things like conflicts of interests and promotions 0:13:07.382 --> 0:13:10.382 and you know, lines of management and everything, you just 0:13:10.902 --> 0:13:13.382 let them know. You can just put it on like 0:13:13.542 --> 0:13:15.502 to your HR person. I mean, the issue is she 0:13:15.582 --> 0:13:17.582 was at HR. Maybe she put it in. Maybe she 0:13:17.662 --> 0:13:20.142 did put it in exactly. And the issue is too 0:13:20.262 --> 0:13:23.862 what if you want to declare the relationship but both 0:13:23.862 --> 0:13:26.622 of you are married, Like, is that something that the 0:13:26.662 --> 0:13:30.782 workplace can condone? Are they the morality police or are 0:13:30.782 --> 0:13:33.022 they just kind of watching how it kind of plays 0:13:33.062 --> 0:13:33.662 out in the workplace? 0:13:33.742 --> 0:13:35.462 Can I can I ask a little bit of an 0:13:35.462 --> 0:13:39.422 intrusive question, Stacy, when you got together with your now 0:13:39.542 --> 0:13:43.662 husband at work, don't you have to tell HR and 0:13:43.702 --> 0:13:45.982 sort of the HighRes up at some point? And how 0:13:45.982 --> 0:13:47.582 did you decide when to do that? 0:13:47.742 --> 0:13:50.102 We did, and we then had the conversation over well, 0:13:50.382 --> 0:13:52.422 I don't want to go in. You go in, you go, 0:13:52.742 --> 0:13:54.622 you go tell him, you go telling me what you 0:13:54.822 --> 0:13:56.582 are closer with him, you've been here longer, you go 0:13:56.662 --> 0:13:59.662 let him know. So that's what we did. It's so awkward. 0:13:59.822 --> 0:14:00.662 It was very. 0:14:00.502 --> 0:14:04.462 Awkward, and when the person had all gone south very quickly, 0:14:04.782 --> 0:14:07.142 which you know it might have done. So how did 0:14:07.182 --> 0:14:10.302 you decide? It was kind of like maybe a month 0:14:10.382 --> 0:14:11.782 in and it was kind of. 0:14:11.742 --> 0:14:13.542 Like brushed at each other. 0:14:13.662 --> 0:14:16.062 Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, I guess so. So it was 0:14:16.142 --> 0:14:18.142 because return and have. 0:14:18.142 --> 0:14:19.702 A hook up and then be like, oh, I'm declaring 0:14:19.742 --> 0:14:21.582 it to HR and they're like don't, it's over. 0:14:21.662 --> 0:14:25.342 And then you're sitting together in an editorial meeting kitchen stories. Yeah, 0:14:25.382 --> 0:14:29.302 so it's a very delicate space. But even other people 0:14:29.342 --> 0:14:32.622 in this company got pulled into this story that weren't 0:14:32.662 --> 0:14:35.422 even part of this story. Yeah, and this is another 0:14:35.502 --> 0:14:38.382 thing that has flown under the radar. It got corrected 0:14:38.502 --> 0:14:40.702 at some point along the line, but no one even 0:14:40.822 --> 0:14:43.222 knows that the woman that was standing next to them 0:14:43.222 --> 0:14:44.582 in the clip. Do you remember there was a woman 0:14:44.862 --> 0:14:46.902 that kind of had this look on her face as 0:14:47.022 --> 0:14:49.662 the kiss cam came on to them, like oh, they've 0:14:49.702 --> 0:14:51.742 just got stung and I just need to stand as 0:14:51.742 --> 0:14:54.782 still as possible and hope no one spots me. People 0:14:54.862 --> 0:14:57.182 said that that was the other person that worked in 0:14:57.382 --> 0:14:59.862 HR at the company, and they found photos it was 0:14:59.902 --> 0:15:00.302 not her. 0:15:00.942 --> 0:15:01.542 She was not. 0:15:01.582 --> 0:15:04.222 Involved in any way in the story. But that is 0:15:04.262 --> 0:15:07.062 now something that people believe about that company. So it's 0:15:07.102 --> 0:15:10.222 funny how these things will just move along now is 0:15:10.302 --> 0:15:12.822 fact that that will forever be known as part of 0:15:12.862 --> 0:15:16.022 the story. There was also a fake statement from Andy Byron, 0:15:16.062 --> 0:15:19.782 the CEO, that got widely circulated on the day not real. 0:15:20.022 --> 0:15:23.502 Also she resigned right yeah, and I'm looking back at it, 0:15:23.582 --> 0:15:25.302 going she'd do anything wrong? 0:15:25.462 --> 0:15:25.742 Did she? 0:15:26.062 --> 0:15:26.142 Like? 0:15:26.182 --> 0:15:29.062 I know that reputationally they can go. It caused maybe 0:15:29.102 --> 0:15:31.262 a bit of damage, although they actually capitalized off it. 0:15:31.302 --> 0:15:33.902 They got Gwyneth Paltrow in an ad, but I don't 0:15:33.942 --> 0:15:35.342 know why she had to listen. 0:15:35.422 --> 0:15:38.622 I think when you're head of h R, it's a 0:15:38.622 --> 0:15:40.942 bit unfortunate that she's caught in this way. But look, 0:15:41.022 --> 0:15:44.302 I think the biggest problem with it was maybe the 0:15:44.382 --> 0:15:48.022 Coldplay of it all. If this was at an Oasis concert. 0:15:48.022 --> 0:15:51.502 You know, the northern summer has been punctuated with Oasis concerts, 0:15:51.542 --> 0:15:54.622 and they're coming here soon, I think that's very on 0:15:54.782 --> 0:15:58.542 brand Oasis. They're bad boys, like you kind of expect 0:15:58.542 --> 0:16:00.982 people to be having affairs, So it felt like Coldplay 0:16:01.022 --> 0:16:03.982 was just too wholesome. Coldplate is, as someone once said, 0:16:03.982 --> 0:16:07.542 to me, coldplay is kind of like the porridge of 0:16:07.622 --> 0:16:12.222 popular music. It's good for you, it's fibrous, but it's 0:16:12.262 --> 0:16:14.622 not where you should be having affairs. I say, next 0:16:14.622 --> 0:16:18.302 time this happens, do it at an oasis. Concept in 0:16:18.342 --> 0:16:21.502 a moment, beware the performative male. We give you the 0:16:21.582 --> 0:16:27.982 signs of how to spot one in the wild. Okay, 0:16:27.982 --> 0:16:31.182 I'm going to describe a type of man you may 0:16:31.222 --> 0:16:34.502 have seen out and about recently. Let me know if 0:16:34.542 --> 0:16:37.462 this rings any bells. He's got a canvas tote bag. 0:16:38.102 --> 0:16:41.902 He's carrying a matcher. He might have a paperback book 0:16:42.302 --> 0:16:45.622 that you yourself have on your bedside table. Think Sally Rooney, 0:16:45.782 --> 0:16:50.422 Jacob ALORDI is it him? He might have a laboo 0:16:50.462 --> 0:16:54.022 boo dangling from a carabiner attached to the belt loop 0:16:54.182 --> 0:16:57.342 of his wide leg jeans. Is this ringing any bells, ladies? 0:16:57.622 --> 0:17:00.182 Yeah, I see such creatures on the train. 0:17:00.582 --> 0:17:03.742 Yes, this is a creature that we can now name. 0:17:04.182 --> 0:17:06.661 This man has been identified. He is known as the 0:17:06.702 --> 0:17:11.101 performative male. Move over the softboy. This is the performative male. 0:17:11.821 --> 0:17:14.581 He's not just in touch with his emotions. He is 0:17:14.782 --> 0:17:18.502 performing his emotions and muma me as Katie Powers wrote 0:17:18.502 --> 0:17:20.661 a great piece for The Sight kind of summing him up. 0:17:20.742 --> 0:17:24.021 She said, he puts his headphones in, picks up his matcher, 0:17:24.141 --> 0:17:26.622 opens his book to the first page. He is a 0:17:26.702 --> 0:17:31.181 cocktail of green flags, a man written for the female gaze. 0:17:31.341 --> 0:17:33.782 So Katie talks about you know, none of these behaviors 0:17:33.821 --> 0:17:36.262 are problematic. In fact, I think a man reading a 0:17:36.341 --> 0:17:39.902 Sally Rooney book and drinking a matcher quite delightful. He's 0:17:39.901 --> 0:17:43.942 getting his antioxidants in and he's educating himself with acclaimed 0:17:44.022 --> 0:17:46.782 female writer. But I think that the issue with this 0:17:46.861 --> 0:17:48.901 type of man, and the reason why he's been given 0:17:48.982 --> 0:17:51.981 this name, the performed of male, is because he's just 0:17:52.141 --> 0:17:54.502 doing it for the gram. He's just doing it to 0:17:54.581 --> 0:17:57.701 impress women. He's not actually doing it because he loves 0:17:57.782 --> 0:18:03.262 tortured irish protagonists and green tea. So I think also 0:18:03.341 --> 0:18:05.302 reminds me a little bit of the sensitive new age 0:18:05.302 --> 0:18:08.141 guy from the nineties, the snag. Does anyone remember that? 0:18:08.621 --> 0:18:11.582 And I'm kind of one How unique is this new 0:18:11.621 --> 0:18:13.782 type of man? Or is it just that every generation 0:18:14.061 --> 0:18:16.302 has to name that man who's trying a little bit 0:18:16.341 --> 0:18:17.542 too hard to be a feminist? 0:18:17.901 --> 0:18:21.621 I hate this. I hate the term. 0:18:21.302 --> 0:18:26.702 Why because it's the male equivalent of the pick me girl. 0:18:26.901 --> 0:18:29.861 And I shudder when I hear the term pic me girl. 0:18:29.861 --> 0:18:32.861 I find it so degrading and so sexist. 0:18:33.101 --> 0:18:35.101 Can you just describe quickly what a pickme goal is, 0:18:35.101 --> 0:18:36.581 because I've never really understood that. 0:18:36.742 --> 0:18:36.942 Yeah. 0:18:36.942 --> 0:18:39.861 So often it's used to talk about a young woman 0:18:40.061 --> 0:18:43.782 who seeks validation and attention by acting in a way 0:18:43.782 --> 0:18:47.061 that they believe men will find desirable. So what annoys 0:18:47.101 --> 0:18:50.542 me about it is that, like, the male gaze is 0:18:51.222 --> 0:18:54.901 so just a fixture of our culture, and then when 0:18:55.222 --> 0:18:58.342 any of us play to it as we are socialized 0:18:58.341 --> 0:19:01.262