Speaker 1: You're listening to a mom and mer podcast.
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to biz Inbox. I'm m Vernum and
Speaker 2: I'm so fast and so we are recording this on
Speaker 2: a Friday morning. And I don't want to say this
Speaker 2: is me, but let's pretend I have a friend who's
Speaker 2: extremely hungover and they still have to do a full
Speaker 2: days of work.
Speaker 3: What should they do to quickly get out of it?
Speaker 1: This makes me respect you more if you are this together.
Speaker 1: I mean, if your friend is this together and they hungover. No,
Speaker 1: it's Friday, the sun's out, everyone can chill. I think
Speaker 1: it's fine. You do your best for half the day
Speaker 1: and then you leave.
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you.
Speaker 1: Drink my mum, you saw say if I had to
Speaker 1: go into what kind of she's just like, put heaps
Speaker 1: of blush on.
Speaker 2: Okay, good strategy.
Speaker 3: Strategy.
Speaker 2: I will tell my friend that exactly. So this week
Speaker 2: in bus in Box, we are getting into a whole
Speaker 2: lot of juicy questions. We're talking about micromanagers, we're talking
Speaker 2: about calendar etiquette, and we're also talking about how to
Speaker 2: actually stay motivated at work. So hit me with the
Speaker 2: first question.
Speaker 1: So this question actually came to me through Instagram and
Speaker 1: it's like top three questions that I get asked.
Speaker 3: So I actually wanted to talk about it on This
Speaker 3: is Today. Oh I love that. Yeah. So the question
Speaker 3: is my boss is.
Speaker 2: Such a micromanager. They're constantly checking in to see if
Speaker 2: I've done tasks, they nitpick all my work, they make
Speaker 2: me see them in all of my emails.
Speaker 1: Is this said them problem or do they just hate me?
Speaker 1: So let's unpack this. First of all, I've sam has
Speaker 1: this ever happened to you? Like, have you ever worked
Speaker 1: with a micromanager type person?
Speaker 2: Yes? All my micromanagy persons have been the managers I've
Speaker 2: had in between my two permanent managers, so they'd be
Speaker 2: like kind of like a stand in manager. And for me,
Speaker 2: I think it wasn't really them micromanaging me, but it
Speaker 2: was more them trying to understand my whole role and
Speaker 2: then me being super egotistical in my early twenties going
Speaker 2: just let me do my thing, like I know what
Speaker 2: I'm doing, I.
Speaker 3: Don't need you. Yeah, don't you know who I am?
Speaker 2: Do you not know? And it doesn't even have to
Speaker 2: be a manager. I think I've experienced micromanaging from like
Speaker 2: different people, even colleagues who are just like managing a
Speaker 2: project that I'm working on, and it is one of
Speaker 2: my biggest pet peet's Like I can't stand.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes it really hard. So I love what
Speaker 1: you just said because you actually just set up the
Speaker 1: first point, which is it can be a personality thing
Speaker 1: and a style thing with the manager, or it can
Speaker 1: actually be situational. So just to kind of go back
Speaker 1: to the question, you know, first, for all, your boss
Speaker 1: doesn't hate you. It's probably more them than it is
Speaker 1: your performance. But micromanaging is essentially it's a trust issue,
Speaker 1: so they don't fully trust that you are able to
Speaker 1: do your work independently, so they're like all up in
Speaker 1: your shit. And the trust thing, it can either be
Speaker 1: a them problem or it can be a U problem,
Speaker 1: and most common is it's a them problem.
Speaker 3: So often the best.
Speaker 1: Individual contributors, like, if you're really good at your job
Speaker 1: going through, you're like a real high achiever, and then
Speaker 1: you get your first manager your role, often you will
Speaker 1: be a micromanager at the start because like you're letting
Speaker 1: go of control.
Speaker 3: It's actually quite hard.
Speaker 1: And so a lot of the best managers that I
Speaker 1: talk to, they're like, yeah, I used to be a micromanager.
Speaker 3: It's also just a star thing for some people.
Speaker 1: So first of all, know that your manager's probably not
Speaker 1: doing it intentionally, but they do need to change if
Speaker 1: they're doing it, because it can just like completely undermine
Speaker 1: your work and your confidence and things like that, and
Speaker 1: it just makes things way slower. So first of all,
Speaker 1: just in terms of like recognizing signs with your manager,
Speaker 1: and then we'll talk about what you can do first,
Speaker 1: Like is it situational, So is this a new manager,
Speaker 1: like new to the company, new to the role, need
Speaker 1: to the team, or is there like something going on
Speaker 1: in that manner life that has fully rocked their confidence
Speaker 1: and is like making them really nervous, Or is like
Speaker 1: the project that you're working on with them so big
Speaker 1: and important that so many senior ladies in involved that
Speaker 1: they're really just like wanting to hold on to all
Speaker 1: the details. So look at this situation first. It can
Speaker 1: also just be down to their style, So it can
Speaker 1: be their like anxious type of person. They're just like
Speaker 1: that kind of controlling personality where they just really want
Speaker 1: to be across everything. So first, while I would look
Speaker 1: at that, also reflect on yourself. So sometimes as well,
Speaker 1: it's an issue of reliability on your side. So the
Speaker 1: best way that you can gain trust with your manager,
Speaker 1: the fastest way is to tell them what you're going
Speaker 1: to do, do the thing, and then tell them that
Speaker 1: you did the thing. And if you do that consistently
Speaker 1: and over communicate, they're going to start to have trust
Speaker 1: in you. So just kind of reflect on yourself and
Speaker 1: just say, like, am I doing anything that kind of
Speaker 1: makes them not trusting and make them think that I'm
Speaker 1: not reliable? Probably not, Like most of the time it
Speaker 1: is a manager situation. So what I would do is
Speaker 1: I like to do a little thought experiment first, and
Speaker 1: I just put myself in their shoes. I always love
Speaker 1: to start with empathy if it is like their personality
Speaker 1: or their situation, just for like ten seconds, just feel
Speaker 1: a little bit sorry for them because it is hard
Speaker 1: being a manager, and like they probably don't want a
Speaker 1: micromanager if they know they're doing it.
Speaker 3: That said, they do need to change.
Speaker 1: So what you do first is you really over communicate,
Speaker 1: and so just like do not give them a reason
Speaker 1: to have to ask you for things. So over communicate,
Speaker 1: be super proactive about everything and just like keep them
Speaker 1: updated on stuff. And then you'll notice that they will
Speaker 1: start to trust you more and hopefully they'll start to
Speaker 1: micromanage you less and you can pull back. If that
Speaker 1: doesn't work, then you do need to start setting some boundaries.
Speaker 1: So say, for example, it's like five o'clock and you
Speaker 1: just shut your laptop and they're like, can you walk
Speaker 1: me through this whatever? They start asking you heaps of
Speaker 1: questions about something that they just emailed you about. You
Speaker 1: do need to start practicing saying can we talk about
Speaker 1: this at nine o'clock tomorrow kind of thing if they
Speaker 1: keep doing it consistently, because some managers don't change if
Speaker 1: they keep doing it consistently, you do need to start
Speaker 1: looking at some boundaries to put in place.
Speaker 2: Boundaries. I feel like boundaries with managers are such a
Speaker 2: scary area.
Speaker 1: It's also very controversial right now because the main thing
Speaker 1: that people when I tell people that I have my
Speaker 1: company is a coaching company for gen Z, the one
Speaker 1: thing that they always bring up is this like issue
Speaker 1: of boundaries. So I do want to say that you
Speaker 1: do have to be careful with having these really firm
Speaker 1: boundaries that aren't flexible. So I'm not saying that I'm
Speaker 1: not saying every time you ask your manager asks you
Speaker 1: to stay back. You're like, no, I'm leaving. But I
Speaker 1: do think that if you've got a micromanager type manager,
Speaker 1: and you've tried other things, and you've done the whole
Speaker 1: over communicating thing, then the next thing that I would
Speaker 1: start to look at is just some kind of healthy
Speaker 1: boundary setting.
Speaker 2: Oh that's so good, okay. Our next question came to
Speaker 2: our instagram. Via our Instagram dms, you can follow us
Speaker 2: beers by Mom and mea and also dm us if
Speaker 2: you want one of your questions answered on the podcast,
Speaker 2: and it said, what's the deal with making calendars hidden?
Speaker 2: I see a lot of the senior people in my
Speaker 2: company have all their blocks set to quote busy, so
Speaker 2: you can't see what meetings they're actually in. It's making
Speaker 2: me spiral because I think they're hiding something.
Speaker 3: Oh man, I know, it's so annoying.
Speaker 2: Right, it is annoying.
Speaker 3: First of all, m what's your calendar situation? Do you
Speaker 3: have all your blocks visible?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Mine's completely visible. I feel like if you have, and
Speaker 2: this might be an unpopular opinion, but if you have
Speaker 2: your calendar blocked from people seeing what actual meetings you're in,
Speaker 2: it makes me think that you think you're really important,
Speaker 2: so jope when I it's.
Speaker 1: Really funny when you see someone who like early career,
Speaker 1: mid career, and then they get promoted and then maybe
Speaker 1: they're like a manager for the first time, and then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden they just change everything to be
Speaker 1: busy because they think it's a flex There is obviously
Speaker 1: reasons and there's like valid reasons that people say their
Speaker 1: calendar to that.
Speaker 3: But first of all, just think like, if.
Speaker 1: This is you, I don't want to offend anyone, but
Speaker 1: just think about it is actually really hard for people
Speaker 1: to schedule stuff when all of your things are set
Speaker 1: to busy, right, especially if you don't have administrative busy
Speaker 1: as partner or PA.
Speaker 3: So just think about that.
Speaker 1: I mean, the valid reasons are that a lot of
Speaker 1: the time with senior leaders, they really are getting pulled
Speaker 1: in all the time to the types of meetings where
Speaker 1: it's not appropriate for everyone in the company to know.
Speaker 1: And also there is some pretty hard course calendar stalking
Speaker 1: that can go on, and you can piece together things
Speaker 1: that are happening at your company, who's getting promoted, who's
Speaker 1: getting which job, who's getting fired by the types of
Speaker 1: meetings that different managers are having. So I do know
Speaker 1: that there's like fully valid reasons that very smulators or
Speaker 1: just like other people need to set them to busy
Speaker 1: or at certain periods if they're working on sort of
Speaker 1: a particular type of project, you need.
Speaker 3: To set it to that. But yeah, I mean do
Speaker 3: people do it in your office?
Speaker 2: In Yeah, a few people. There's no hard rules about it,
Speaker 2: like you can choose whether to have it hidden or not,
Speaker 2: and it's like different people. But what I struggle with
Speaker 2: is that sometimes people like do time blocking in their calendar,
Speaker 2: which actually learned from you and Mesh how to like
Speaker 2: even like putting like for example, like on Fridays, I
Speaker 2: have like a part of my calendar that's for like
Speaker 2: my task pebbles that you suggested in their previous episode
Speaker 2: that will link in the show notes that has blocked
Speaker 2: out my calendar. And I think there are other people
Speaker 2: in the business who have their calendars hidden from everyone,
Speaker 2: but they'll have like little tasks blocked in. So then
Speaker 2: I have to if I need an urgent meeting with them,
Speaker 2: and even if it's a meeting that they've asked me
Speaker 2: to put in and it's really urgent, and I see
Speaker 2: like just a full block in their whole calendar. I
Speaker 2: have to then do an extra task on top of that,
Speaker 2: which is like approach them and be like, hey, are
Speaker 2: you able to check your calendar for me? Can I
Speaker 2: fit in this meeting that you've requested, that you said
Speaker 2: is urgent anywhere in here? And that's what kind of
Speaker 2: annoys me about the whole hidden calendar thing.
Speaker 3: You hit the nail on the head. I totally agree, Am.
Speaker 1: It makes it really hard for everyone else in the company.
Speaker 1: A lot of very senior leaders will have it if
Speaker 1: they've also got an assistance, So like yees set everything
Speaker 1: to busy, but then there's always an assistant that you
Speaker 1: can get in touch with to like schedule things. Anyway,
Speaker 1: what people should be doing is it's like a tiny
Speaker 1: bit of extra work for them. But you can set
Speaker 1: individual meetings as private. Obviously, it's not that hard. It's
Speaker 1: like one extra click. So like, in general, try to
Speaker 1: keep your calendar open, and then for those private meetings,
Speaker 1: you just have to get into the habit of setting
Speaker 1: those to private. Oh yeah, but no, I tell them,
Speaker 1: I think you're right. I agree with you, and I
Speaker 1: think you're right. Back to this person's question, like it's
Speaker 1: making me spiral. I think generally, try to adopt the
Speaker 1: mindset at work that nothing is really about you.
Speaker 3: And it's just business man.
Speaker 2: Don't worry.
Speaker 3: Everyone loves you, You're doing great and things are going
Speaker 3: to be fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and maybe hide your calendar in spite. Yeah, no
Speaker 2: one could see anyone's calendar's anymore. So after the break,
Speaker 2: we are going to be talking about a question on
Speaker 2: how to stay motivated at a job you don't really like.
Speaker 2: So so this next question came via our email and
Speaker 2: it says, I've been in a role for a six months.
Speaker 2: I know it's not for me the job and the company,
Speaker 2: but I don't want a job hunt right now because
Speaker 2: I have so much other stuff going on in my life.
Speaker 2: How can I stay motivated when I'm just really not
Speaker 2: into my job?
Speaker 1: Motivation is a funny thing, like motivation and passion and
Speaker 1: purpose at work. It's such a funny thing, isn't it.
Speaker 1: How do you feel about motivation at work?
Speaker 2: It's really tricky because I feel like my motivation like spikes,
Speaker 2: and it's so dependent on so many variables, Like it's
Speaker 2: spikes depending on what projects I'm working on. Because I
Speaker 2: do a lot of different things. It spikes, like depending
Speaker 2: on my hormones, Like literally my periods like will dictate
Speaker 2: how I'm motivated at work. And just like exactly what
Speaker 2: I guess a non said in this question, everything else
Speaker 2: that's going on in your life, Like sometimes you just
Speaker 2: have so much going on that pushing yourself to be
Speaker 2: motivated is like the only kind of I guess glimmer
Speaker 2: of hope to actually enjoy your lifestyle outside of your
Speaker 2: personal lifestyle. So I kind of feel for this person
Speaker 2: and who submitted, because sometimes you just have to do
Speaker 2: the job and it really sucks. And I think if
Speaker 2: you're constantly feeling so unmotivated and you're not enjoying your work,
Speaker 2: then even like regardless of your lifestyle. And I know
Speaker 2: this is probably a privileged answer to say, but I
Speaker 2: would just try to get out of there or just
Speaker 2: try to like maybe do a different role in the
Speaker 2: same company and just be honest about how you're feeling.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love this advice. I think you're right look
Speaker 3: at it short term and long term.
Speaker 1: So sometimes like short term periods of being unmotivated is
Speaker 1: totally fun and normal. If that's going to turn into
Speaker 1: a long term thing, then like you're wasting your own time,
Speaker 1: and it's going to affect a lot. So you know,
Speaker 1: they've done so many studies into what actually makes you
Speaker 1: happy at work, right, and like different studies show different things,
Speaker 1: but there's a few things that always get in the
Speaker 1: top five. One of them is always like your core
Speaker 1: working groups, your manager and your immediate team, and like
Speaker 1: do you like the people that you work with in
Speaker 1: that core working group. The other one that I think
Speaker 1: is fascinating that relates to this is the thing that
Speaker 1: makes you happy at work and makes you feel like
Speaker 1: you've had a good day at work is a sense
Speaker 1: of progress. And I think the thing with motivation sometimes
Speaker 1: it's like if you're going into work every day and
Speaker 1: you're like, nothing that I do actually even matters, Like
Speaker 1: I could work really hard and do my job really well,
Speaker 1: or I could just be phoning it in. No one's
Speaker 1: really noticing, it doesn't really change the results for the company.
Speaker 1: I don't even know why I'm working on these things,
Speaker 1: Like no one's actually explaining to me why this stuff
Speaker 1: is important. You just have this feeling like I'm making
Speaker 1: no progress towards anything, and so that can actually make
Speaker 1: you demotivated, and it can make.
Speaker 3: You really unhappy.
Speaker 1: So it sounds like with this question that it's a
Speaker 1: short term thing. So let's see, I've been in my
Speaker 1: row for six months. I know it's not the job
Speaker 1: for me. So the first thing I would always say
Speaker 1: is like ask your off why you're not motivated, and then.
Speaker 3: Try and change your situation.
Speaker 1: But if this person sort of decided like I'm just
Speaker 1: going to do this job for a little bit, there's
Speaker 1: other stuff going on, I don't want to change my
Speaker 1: situation right now, I would say, mentally, decide how long
Speaker 1: you're going to stay that job, So say I'm going
Speaker 1: to do another six months or I'm going to do
Speaker 1: another twelve months, and then create a sense of.
Speaker 3: Progress for yourself.
Speaker 1: So what I would do is I would pick one
Speaker 1: person in the company or one skill. So for a person,
Speaker 1: try and find one person in the company who's like
Speaker 1: a high quality person that you might want to learn
Speaker 1: from or like get closer to start by just kind
Speaker 1: of learning more about them, knowing what they're up to,
Speaker 1: you kind of thing. Try and take them for coffee
Speaker 1: if you can, and just figure out a way, like
Speaker 1: is there a way that you can work on something
Speaker 1: with this person? Like Google, we had things like twenty
Speaker 1: percent projects and job shadowing and things like that.
Speaker 3: But you can just figure out, like, is there sort.
Speaker 1: Of something that you could work on with this person
Speaker 1: so you can learn from them and create a relationship.
Speaker 1: So that's the person one or I would pick one skill.
Speaker 1: So what is one skill that you can totally master
Speaker 1: in the next twelve months or the next six months
Speaker 1: is going to be a skill that you're then going
Speaker 1: to take with you for the rest of your career
Speaker 1: and then talk to your manager and really say, like,
Speaker 1: I really want to work on this skill, make it
Speaker 1: your focus, and see how they can support you in that. So,
Speaker 1: whether that's doing a course, whether that's getting yourself onto
Speaker 1: a different project where.
Speaker 3: You're able to develop that skill.
Speaker 1: And what you're going to find is because you've set
Speaker 1: yourself this goal of like either developing a relationship with
Speaker 1: that person or that skill, you're going to take that
Speaker 1: with you when you leave that job, Like that goes
Speaker 1: with you for the rest of your career. Instead of
Speaker 1: this being you know, twelve months wasted in a job
Speaker 1: you're not motivated about, you're actually flipping it and you're like,
Speaker 1: I'm gaining this and that's going to come with me
Speaker 1: in my next role.
Speaker 2: That is excellent advice, Like yay, I've never heard advice
Speaker 2: like that before. Oh my god, I wish I had
Speaker 2: a pen and paper on me right now. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: I to listen back on this episode.
Speaker 3: I'll send you the link. Yeah. That is actually a
Speaker 3: good call out to a newsletter. So thank you for
Speaker 3: helping you clear the busy your box.
Speaker 1: If you want to subscribe to you our newsletter, the
Speaker 1: link to that is in the show notes. And I
Speaker 1: actually subscribe myself and I really like it, so shout
Speaker 1: out to Katie who writes it.
Speaker 3: It's awesome.
Speaker 2: Katie is absolutely brilliant. And if you miss any of
Speaker 2: our episodes, please go back in your podcast feed to
Speaker 2: see what else we put out there. We'll also link
Speaker 2: a few in our show notes. We will be back
Speaker 2: here in your busy in box next week.
Speaker 4: Bye bye, Mamma.
Speaker 2: Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that
Speaker 2: this podcast is recorded on