1 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. 2 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 2: Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and 3 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 2: waters that this podcast is recorded. 4 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 3: On my therapist instead of meaning every two weeks, which 5 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:23,440 Speaker 3: is strewmining every week. 6 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 4: Why is she so obsessed with me? We're like best friends. 7 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 4: I knew she liked me. 8 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: For Mama Maya. I'm your host, Ashani Dante. Welcome to 9 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: But are you happy? Because I'm fine? Is the biggest 10 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: lie in the group chat? 11 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 2: And I'm doctor Anastasia Hernus, a clinical psychologist passionate about 12 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 2: mental health and happiness. Have you heard of cognitive behavior 13 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 2: therapy or EMDR or integrative psychotherapy, or animal assisted therapy 14 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 2: or couple's therapy or attachment. 15 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: Therapy, Anastasia, There's a lot of kinds of therapy out there. 16 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 4: On there's more. 17 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 2: Well, that's what we're going to be talking about today, 18 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 2: the biggest mistakes that people make in therapy and how 19 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:10,919 Speaker 2: to find the kind of therapy that you really need. 20 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:19,279 Speaker 1: This is really important. Let's get to it, okay Anaesthasia. 21 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: As a clinical psychologist, have you ever found in the 22 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: therapy room that you had a client that didn't quite 23 00:01:25,119 --> 00:01:28,479 Speaker 1: understand the brief for maybe they just weren't the right 24 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: fit all the time. 25 00:01:31,119 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 2: It happens all the time, and it's really important to 26 00:01:35,399 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 2: have that right fit because the research tells us the 27 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 2: therapeutic relationship that a client has with their therapist is 28 00:01:44,679 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 2: the number one biggest predictor of therapy outcomes. It's the 29 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 2: most important thing beyond the type of therapy that you're doing, 30 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 2: or you know, other features relating to the diagnosis, etc. 31 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 2: The therapeutic relationship between a client and therapist is the 32 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 2: number one biggest predictor of change. So it is so 33 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 2: important that you feel comfortable and secure and like you 34 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 2: can be vulnerable with your therapists. You've got to feel 35 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,959 Speaker 2: like you've got that connection. If that's not there, I'd 36 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 2: encourage people to try seek out a different therapist and 37 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 2: see how that fit feels. 38 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 1: Do you find it sometimes when clients come, is there 39 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: like certain things that you don't feel comfortable with? 40 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, So different therapists and psychologists will have different areas 41 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 2: of I guess expertise in the field, right, So most 42 00:02:36,920 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 2: of us can deal with the more common mental health conditions. 43 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 2: So most psychologists would be able to help someone with anxiety, depression, OCD, etc. 44 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 2: But for example, I don't really work much with clients 45 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 2: who have eating disorders. That's quite a specialized area of practice. 46 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 2: It's something where you require a lot of upskilling in 47 00:02:58,640 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 2: as a clinician to be able to do the appropriate 48 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 2: therapy work. So it's not an area that I sort 49 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 2: of delve into because I haven't done that training. So 50 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 2: we all have kind of different areas that we might 51 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 2: feel like we do more work in or we've upskilled in. 52 00:03:12,920 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 4: For me, it's addictions. 53 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 2: I really love working with clients who present with addiction 54 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 2: related concerns. It's a little bit of a niche area, 55 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 2: and it's an area that I've done sort of extra 56 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 2: research and study into, so I feel quite competent doing 57 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 2: that body of work. 58 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 1: And it's really interesting you kind of speak into kind 59 00:03:30,920 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: of essentially the criteria that's needed on both ends for 60 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: there to be a bit of like a flow. There's 61 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: a collaboration, right, And I know that you spoke to 62 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: that a few episodes back when we were talking about 63 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: therapy talk and how it's a two way street and 64 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: there's got to be the similar values and goals to 65 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: be aligned. 66 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 2: Right, Yes, absolutely, And I think that's where it's important 67 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 2: for a person who's thinking about seeking out therapy if 68 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 2: you do go to that first session to have an 69 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 2: idea in mind as to what it is you're wanting 70 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 2: to get out of therapy and treatment. At the same time, 71 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 2: the therapist will be assessing the match, right, They'll be 72 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 2: assessing whether or not they're the best person to help 73 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 2: you with that. So when clients call the clinic, we 74 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 2: do a little bit of what's called an intake, so 75 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 2: we'll actually ask people over the phone, what is it 76 00:04:21,719 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 2: that you're wanting assistance with? Just very generally speaking, they 77 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 2: don't have to divulge a lot of information, but for example, 78 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 2: if they did say I think I might have some 79 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 2: problems with my eating patterns and body image, maybe an 80 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 2: eating disorder, then we would allocate them to a clinician 81 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 2: that does that work. Some of our clinicians, for example, 82 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 2: don't necessarily work with children and adolescents or parents. That's 83 00:04:43,280 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 2: another area in which a psychologist or a therapist really 84 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 2: needs to be upskilled. So it's important to get from 85 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 2: the outset as best as we can that match between 86 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 2: what it is someone's wanting help with and the type 87 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 2: of work that therapist does so a question. 88 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: I have which I'm really curious about because I feel 89 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: like therapy it feels like it's a bit of this 90 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 1: muscle weaflex in today's world. It's like I go to therapy, 91 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 1: you know, look at me. Do you feel like everyone 92 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: should go to therapy? 93 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 4: Oh, that's a tough one to answer. 94 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: I mean, not everyone needs therapy, right, And I guess 95 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 2: like I want to almost like break down what we're 96 00:05:21,280 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 2: talking about when we say therapy or when I say therapy. 97 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 2: Not everyone needs to see a psychologist or a clinical psychologist. 98 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 2: The type of work that I might do and my 99 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 2: colleagues might do is quite specialized in that we're looking 100 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 2: to assess, diagnose, and treat mental health disorders. Right, But 101 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 2: that's a percentage of the population, not everyone. Then there's 102 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 2: people who want to better know themselves. 103 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 4: They want tools and. 104 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 2: Strategies to feel really solid in their day to day 105 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 2: mental health and build that sense of wellness and well 106 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 2: being within their lives. 107 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 4: And I think that's great. 108 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 2: They don't necessarily need to see a psychologist or a 109 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 2: clinical psychologist. 110 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 4: To do that. There's lots of self help resources. 111 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 2: They can see, counselors, psychotherapists, you know, there's different options, 112 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 2: So I think depending on what someone's wanting, there'll be 113 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 2: different pathways to go down to get that sort of 114 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 2: intervention or support. 115 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: So I'm thinking about people tuning in because throughout these 116 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: episodes across the season, you know, we've talked a lot 117 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 1: about different topics around mental health, and a lot of 118 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: the time at the end we talk about seeking professional help. 119 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: So I kind of wanted to speak to what would 120 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: you want to say to the people that are on 121 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: the fence around or do I do therapy? 122 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 2: I don't know, if you're questioning it, I would encourage 123 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 2: you to maybe first talk to a GP or a doctor. Right, 124 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 2: most of the referrals that we get are actually from doctors. 125 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 2: They do up a mental health care plan and then 126 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 2: a person can see a psychologist with some Medicare rebates often, 127 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 2: but a GP or a doctor can be an excellent 128 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 2: first point of contact to go through and say, look, 129 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 2: I'm struggling with my thoughts. 130 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 4: I keep thinking and I can't stop thinking. 131 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 2: You know, it could be as basic as that, or 132 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 2: my mood just feels off. I don't feel good when 133 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 2: I wake up in the morning, and a GP will 134 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 2: know how to do some assessing to ask the right 135 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 2: questions to be able to understand your experience a bit more, 136 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 2: and from that point on, they'll also be able to 137 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 2: give you a recommendation as to whether they think you 138 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 2: might need to see a therapist to work through these difficulties, 139 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 2: whether you might need a blood test to check if 140 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 2: you're low in iron right, you know, it could be 141 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 2: a lot of other things that might have sort of 142 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 2: a physical basis to it as well, or whether maybe 143 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 2: you need to see a psychiatrist and be assessed for 144 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 2: particular types of medications to assist with your mood and 145 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 2: mental health. So there's lots of different options, but a 146 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 2: GP can be a great first point of contact. 147 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: And I think it's really great because I think when 148 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: in doubt, it's like, why not just get it checked out? 149 00:07:59,920 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 4: You know? 150 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: So I really love that. So I kind of wanted 151 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: to talk a little bit more to kind of the 152 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: myths that are out there, or just an opportunity to 153 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: kind of shine a light on what are the biggest 154 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: mistakes in therapy, because I'm sure you've seen a handful 155 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: of lots of different kinds of people in the clinic room. 156 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 2: Yes, mistakes or I guess misconceptions about therapy. Right, I'm 157 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 2: like almost mindful about this word mistake being like a 158 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 2: judgment that someone's doing it wrong, Like you're doing therapy wrong, 159 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 2: you're failing a therapy. It's not that, it's maybe they 160 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 2: come in with sort of misconceptions as to how therapy works, 161 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,559 Speaker 2: or misconceptions around what to expect from being in the 162 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 2: therapy room. So one big one that I've seen through 163 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 2: my years of practice is there can be a reluctance 164 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 2: to share. Now, fair enough, Right, I am a strange 165 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 2: person that you've never met before, sitting across from you 166 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 2: in a comfy chair, expecting you to open up and 167 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 2: share your deepest, darkest fears with me. Right, That's that's 168 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 2: not a natural way in which we would communicate. 169 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 4: In the real world. 170 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,319 Speaker 2: There's a fundamental imbalance in the therapy room that can 171 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 2: feel really uncomfortable for people who've never done therapy before, 172 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 2: and that is the client is expected to share lot 173 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,319 Speaker 2: and lots and lots of information about themselves, and the 174 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 2: therapist generally. 175 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 4: Doesn't share very much at all. Right, it's not about us. 176 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 2: That dynamic is really unnatural in the real world. If 177 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 2: we're talking to a friend, if we meet an acquaintance, 178 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 2: if we're talking to a colleague, one person shares a 179 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 2: little bit, the other person shares a bit, the next 180 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 2: person shares a bit. 181 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 4: And we build. 182 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 2: That's how we build a connection through shared vulnerability. We 183 00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 2: don't have shared vulnerability in the therapy room. It's a 184 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 2: different dynamic, and so that can be uncomfortable for people 185 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 2: at first, and I don't blame them for that, but 186 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 2: what it can lead to then is maybe them not 187 00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 2: sharing everything that might be important or relevant for the 188 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 2: therapeutic process. So sometimes I'll see clients. They'll come in 189 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 2: the first session and this is not uncommon. We'll get 190 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,439 Speaker 2: to like the last five minutes and I'll be like 191 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,319 Speaker 2: anything else, and then look, something comes out and it's 192 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 2: usually a big thing. 193 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 4: Oh okay, maybe we have to unpack that next session. 194 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 2: So there's this sort of like holding and maybe a 195 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 2: bit of testing the waters as well, just seeing how 196 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 2: I or another psychologist might respond to their disclosures of 197 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 2: personal information. So that's something that I see that can 198 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 2: sometimes stall the therapy process a little bit. But hopefully 199 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 2: it's our job as therapists and clinicians to help people 200 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 2: feel comfortable to set the tone for the therapy room 201 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 2: so that a person can feel like they can share 202 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 2: that personal information with us. 203 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: I like that you've kind of named the unnaturalness of it, 204 00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: because I think I know from friends who have gone 205 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: to therapy they do speak a bit about that. They 206 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: kind of just say, oh, but I want to know 207 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: more about their person life, like I don't really know 208 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: anything about them. And it is true, it is very 209 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: one way, but it sounds like it's intentional. 210 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And I think the reason one of the 211 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 2: reasons that that's important is because A it's not about 212 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 2: us as a therapist, but b it's also not about 213 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 2: our experience. 214 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 4: Right. 215 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 2: So, as a psychologist, I've studied the science behind how 216 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 2: the mind and the brain works and how that influences 217 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 2: certain emotions and. 218 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 4: Behaviors, et cetera. 219 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 2: My work as a therapist should not be based on 220 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 2: what my life experiences have been and whether I've had 221 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 2: similar life experiences to my client or not. It should 222 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 2: be based on the science and the psychological frameworks that 223 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 2: I've studied that I know can help a person with 224 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 2: the challenges they're facing. 225 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: Okay, so what are some of the other misconceptions out there? 226 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 2: Okay, so the kind of holding back information avoiding that vulnerability. 227 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 2: I think another misconception could be thinking that all the 228 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 2: therapy happens in the therapy room. So sometimes we see 229 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 2: people come to therapy, they do their fifty sixty minute session, 230 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 2: We talk through all the stuff, we give them some 231 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 2: tools and strategies, and then they leave the room and 232 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 2: they come back next week. But not much happens in 233 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 2: the in between. And when I say not much happens, 234 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 2: what I really actually mean is not much changes. The 235 00:12:34,680 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 2: therapy room is going to be one hour of your week. 236 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 2: But in reality, what we want to try and do 237 00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 2: is help people build the skills and the tools to 238 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 2: be able to make changes in their day to day 239 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 2: life outside. 240 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 4: Of the therapy room. 241 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 2: And so what this often comes with is some degree 242 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 2: of homework. I have mixed feelings about the word homework, 243 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 2: and I remind me of school. But it's like there 244 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 2: are some tasks, some activities, some practices for people to 245 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 2: do in their day to day life. 246 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 4: We could do all the. 247 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 2: Best talking in the therapy room. That's possible, but if 248 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 2: nothing changes, nothing changes. 249 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: And it's important because I can imagine that the real 250 00:13:18,560 --> 00:13:21,319 Speaker 1: work happens outside of the therapy room, like the integration 251 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: the real life, you're in life as well, So I 252 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: can get how that's really important. 253 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 2: It's one thing for us to talk about how to 254 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 2: manage a panic attack in the therapy room when a 255 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 2: person's not having a panic attack, but it's another thing 256 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 2: for them to go out and then apply those skills when. 257 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 4: They're in the thick of it. 258 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, So what else? 259 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 2: Another one is clients may be feeling like they can't 260 00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 2: share their thoughts about how the therapy process is going. Now, 261 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 2: this goes two ways, right, I think it's really on 262 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 2: the therapist to be able to create a space and 263 00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 2: ask questions that invite feedback. So I want to know 264 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 2: if my clients feel like the therapy is working for them, right, 265 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:10,199 Speaker 2: I want to know if they feel comfortable. I want 266 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 2: I don't know if they feel like they're making progress. 267 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 2: And so we as therapists have a responsibility to be 268 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 2: asking those questions and actively checking in with our clients. 269 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 2: But if there is something that someone feels like isn't 270 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 2: working for them, voice that share that. 271 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 4: With your therapist. 272 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 2: We need the feedback so that we can provide strategies 273 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 2: and treatments that work for you. I could have the 274 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 2: best strategy or solution that I think is going to 275 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 2: be great for someone, but if they turn around and say, 276 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 2: I'm never going to do that. 277 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 4: Then let's try something else. 278 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 2: It's like when we talked about in episode one with anxiety, 279 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 2: like the ice cold showers. Right, I could be like, 280 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 2: I have the best tip for you, and if someone's like, 281 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 2: you got buckleys of me getting in a cold shower, 282 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 2: I'd be like, right, let's try another strategy. So we've 283 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 2: got to work collaboratively. As you said before, collaboration is 284 00:14:58,400 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 2: key when it comes to therapy. 285 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: Mmm. I love that. I think so often when we 286 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: look at therapy in pop culture, you know, it's the 287 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: classic when you're watching a movie, someone's laying on the 288 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: couch sharing everything. But I'm curious to know what is 289 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: therapy actually, like, what does it look like? 290 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 2: Well, I can tell you that I don't have a 291 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 2: couch that you lie down on, damn it. I've got 292 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 2: some comfy couches that you can sit in, like the armchairs. 293 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, but not a lie down couch. 294 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 2: I'm afraid there's lots of different types of therapy, and 295 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 2: I agree that there's a bit of a misconception maybe 296 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 2: as to what therapy actually looks like in the therapy room. 297 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 2: Maybe I can give you a bit of a therapy 298 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 2: one oh one on maybe like the four different common 299 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 2: types of therapies we've seen, but also how therapies evolved 300 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 2: over time, so that people can understand maybe what the 301 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 2: best therapy approach might be for them. And look, that's 302 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 2: what a psychologist is there to do, to assess and 303 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 2: also provide a recommendation as to what type of therapy 304 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 2: might suit you best. But I'll give a couple of 305 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 2: brief explainers of some common types of therapies. 306 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: How's that. I love that we're ready for therapy one 307 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: on one? 308 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 2: All right, so we go, so back into the ages. 309 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 2: The most well established therapeutic approach that we have is 310 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 2: something called cognitive behavioral therapy c BT for short, and 311 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 2: cognitive behavior therapy looks at our thoughts, our feelings, and 312 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 2: our behaviors and how the three of these are connected. 313 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 4: Right. Hence, cognitive and. 314 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 2: Behavioral CBT has a lot of evidence to support its 315 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 2: use for things like anxiety, depression, OCD, even eating disorders. 316 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 2: Lots of evidence behind CBT. However, CBT focuses very heavily 317 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 2: on change, right, how can you change your thinking? How 318 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 2: can you change your emotional state? And how can you 319 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 2: change your behaviors? Now, that is very helpful for some people. However, 320 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 2: if you come to the therapy room and you've experienced trauma, 321 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 2: if you've experienced chronic patterns of invalidation, if you are 322 00:17:20,120 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 2: someone who's been given a terminal or life changing diagnosis, 323 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 2: walking into the therapy room and having a therapist say 324 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 2: to you how can you change your thinking about that 325 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 2: is going to be a highly invalidating experience. If I 326 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 2: come in and tell you I've had this traumatic experience 327 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,120 Speaker 2: and you tell someone to change their thinking, that does 328 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 2: not land well, that's highly invalidating. 329 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 4: So the reason I say. 330 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 2: This is because there's a newer wave of therapies that 331 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 2: have emerged that focus on change as well as acceptance, 332 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 2: and we're always looking at how we can balance these two. 333 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 2: So we have therapies like acceptance and commitment therapy, which 334 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 2: is ACT for SUT that really focuses on how can 335 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:13,880 Speaker 2: we work with sort of mindfulness based strategies to accept 336 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 2: our thoughts, our feelings, and our behaviors. Now I'm going 337 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 2: to jump in I'm going to get I'm going to 338 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 2: get on my acceptance kind of ramble here and say, 339 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 2: acceptance is not approval, right, Acceptance does not mean that 340 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 2: I approve or I like the experience. It just means 341 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 2: that I can sit with it and go it is 342 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 2: what it is. I'm having this emotional experience right now. 343 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 2: I'm not going to try and change it. I'm just 344 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 2: going to accept it for what it is and it 345 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 2: will make it pass easier. So we've got our acceptance 346 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:52,880 Speaker 2: and commitment therapy. Then we have DBT dialectical behavior therapy 347 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 2: that again focuses on that balance between acceptance and change. 348 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 2: And this specific type of therapy is quite useful for 349 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 2: people who have conditions like complex trauma, borderline personality disorder, 350 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 2: addiction concerns, some eating disorder, and sort of chronic experiences 351 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:17,919 Speaker 2: of emotions that feel out of control, emotion dysregulation. And 352 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 2: then one more I'll touch on is EMDR. This is 353 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 2: a newer type of therapy. It's quite popular at the 354 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 2: moment for the right people. I Movement Desensitization and reprocessing EMDR. 355 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 2: It's a bit of a mouthful, it is, but this 356 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 2: has been really developed to help people who are trying 357 00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 2: to recover from traumatic experiences that they've had through utilizing 358 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 2: sort of eye movements to reprocess traumatic memories. 359 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 1: There really is a lot of different kinds of therapy, 360 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:48,400 Speaker 1: isn't there? 361 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 2: And there's more, but these are anight. 362 00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: Now and those are the most with like the most 363 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: evidence as well. 364 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 4: Yes, there's some other therapies. 365 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 2: There's scheme of therapy for example, there's other therapies that 366 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 2: do have evidence behind them. And again, I think there 367 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,199 Speaker 2: can be some benefit in trying to do a bit 368 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 2: of homework and research around these different type of therapies 369 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:10,919 Speaker 2: if you think one might be benefit issue for you. 370 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 2: But ultimately it's a conversation to have with your psychologist 371 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 2: or with your therapist, because based on an assessment, they 372 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 2: will be able to determine what they think is the 373 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 2: best fit for you. 374 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: So what about couple's therapy, Like, what are the common 375 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: misconceptions that can happen there? 376 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 2: Well, probably one of the most common things I see 377 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 2: is that one person in the relationship will come to 378 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 2: a psychologist like myself wanting help with the relationship. So 379 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 2: they'll come into the room, they'll tell me about the 380 00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 2: struggles that they're having in the relationship and they want 381 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 2: some advice or guidance or tools and strategies as to 382 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 2: how to make things better. Now, we can do that 383 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 2: to a degree, but ultimately that's a situation where couple's 384 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 2: therapy is going to be more beneficial. And I often 385 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 2: say that to the person. I'll say, look, we can 386 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 2: work one on one to help upskill you with the 387 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 2: strategies until that might be helpful for you. However, one, 388 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 2: it may have limited effect because the other person in 389 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:20,880 Speaker 2: your relationship is not here. And second, it might end 390 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,639 Speaker 2: up feeling like the onus is all on you to 391 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 2: then try and fix the problems in the relationship because 392 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 2: you're the only one here in the therapy room getting 393 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 2: the tools and the strategies and the guidance around it. 394 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 2: So you might end up feeling like you're carrying the 395 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 2: load of trying to repair or improve the relationship, and 396 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 2: that's not going to feel particularly fair on you. So 397 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,919 Speaker 2: I think that's a misconception that I see where people 398 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 2: come in wanting to fix a relationship, but they're not there. 399 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:51,159 Speaker 4: With their partner. 400 00:21:53,120 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 1: I wanted to quickly out on that because I've definitely 401 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,439 Speaker 1: had experiences with friends where they want to get couple's therapy, 402 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: but one is keen and the other isn't. So what 403 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 1: do you say about that? Like when the partner's just 404 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: resistant to wanting to get therapy. 405 00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 4: It's really hard. 406 00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 2: I think they're the situations where at at least one 407 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 2: person going and getting support is better than no people 408 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 2: going and getting support. But ultimately, if both can be 409 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 2: open to just giving it a try and seeing what happens, 410 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 2: that would be ideal. 411 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 1: After this shortbreak, doctor Anastasia is going to give you 412 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 1: some clear guidance on how to find the right therapist 413 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: for you and how to make sure you're getting the 414 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: most out of therapy. Atasasia, we've established that knowing that 415 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 1: you might benefit from therapy is a great first step, 416 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: but how do we make sure that we get the 417 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 1: right therapist and how do we make the most of it. 418 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 2: So first step is finding the psychologist, the therapist, the 419 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 2: person that's the right fit for you. So, if you're 420 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,880 Speaker 2: considering getting some professional help but you're not sure where 421 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 2: to start, as I said, first off, try the GP. 422 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 2: The GP might be able to actually recommend some specific 423 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 2: psychologists or therapists in your local area that could be helpful. 424 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 2: But if you're wanting to look beyond that. There's a 425 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 2: website called Psychology Today where lots and lots and lots 426 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 2: of psychologists and counselors and therapists have their profiles listed, 427 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 2: and it can be a great resource to put in 428 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 2: your postcode and seek out some therapists that might be 429 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 2: local to where you live or where you work. 430 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 4: If you're wanting to check out. 431 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 2: A bit of the therapist and sort of the work 432 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 2: that they do, what types of therapies they use, what 433 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 2: types of clients. 434 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 4: They typically see. You can get a bit of. 435 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 2: A sense of who they are and the work that 436 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 2: they do from their profiles on Psychology Today. Next step 437 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 2: would be actually contacting maybe a few different psychologists right 438 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,959 Speaker 2: and sharing what it is you're wanting help with. As 439 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 2: I said, if you feel like you're struggling with anxiety, 440 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 2: if you struggle with eating concerns, if you're struggling with 441 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,639 Speaker 2: an addiction, whatever, it might be calling up that clinic 442 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 2: or that therapist and sharing this is what I'm wanting 443 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 2: help with. Who would be the best psychologist at your 444 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 2: clinic to see me? Just like gps have different areas 445 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 2: of specialty, right, some gps specialize in women's health, others don't. 446 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:22,440 Speaker 2: Some specialize in skin, skin tags and skin removal of conditions, right, 447 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 2: others don't. So you want to find a therapist who 448 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 2: has knowledge in what you're wanting assistance with, and the 449 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 2: clinic that you call should be able to give you 450 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 2: some guidance around that. 451 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: It's kind of like we're essentially shopping for the best 452 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 1: psychologist in a way, you know, like who's going to 453 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:38,359 Speaker 1: be the right fit, the. 454 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:39,400 Speaker 4: Right fit exactly. 455 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 2: Then I would say, once you have that initial appointment, 456 00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 2: you're in the therapy room, maybe before you even walk in, 457 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,360 Speaker 2: write down a couple of dot points for yourself as 458 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 2: to what it is you're hoping to get. 459 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:54,400 Speaker 4: Out of therapy. 460 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 2: Now, I say this with care because you're not expected 461 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 2: to know all the answers, right, You're not expected to 462 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 2: know what you're experiencing and where it is you'd like 463 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 2: to get with certainty. But if you have some idea 464 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 2: as to the trajectory you want to head in or 465 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 2: the goal as you'd like to achieve for yourself, that 466 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,400 Speaker 2: can be useful information for the therapist to be able 467 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,959 Speaker 2: to say, oh, look, maybe that sounds unrealistic or absolutely 468 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 2: that's something we can help with or yes, we can 469 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 2: do that, but it might take a bit of time. 470 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 1: Okay, So we've established now that therapy is very beneficial. 471 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 1: So how do we make sure we find the right therapist? 472 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 1: And when we do find the right therapist, how do 473 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:36,719 Speaker 1: we make the most out of it. 474 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 2: Yes, as therapists, we work according to the mantra of 475 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 2: unrelenting positive regard. Right, my job as a therapist is 476 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 2: to have unrelenting, without limits positive regard for my clients. 477 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 2: That means that I'm non judgmental, that I'm not sitting 478 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 2: here with my clipboard judging what you say, but that 479 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 2: I'm open and curious to understand your life and your experience. 480 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 4: If I can't do that, if I can't. 481 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 2: Sit in the room with my client and be open 482 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 2: and non judgmental, I'm not the right therapist for this client, 483 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 2: and I'm best to refer them to someone else who 484 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 2: can sit with them and not have that bias and 485 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:26,880 Speaker 2: that judgment. 486 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 4: So I would say, if a person has fears. 487 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 2: Around opening up and sharing vulnerably, our job as therapists 488 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 2: is to be non judgmental and to welcome that vulnerability 489 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 2: into the room. I also want to say we've heard 490 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:45,880 Speaker 2: and seen most things. 491 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:47,400 Speaker 4: Right, It's a. 492 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 2: Rare day these days that someone says something that shocks me. 493 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 2: And I say that to give comfort to people who 494 00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 2: might think that they're going to walk into the therapy 495 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 2: room and say something that is so terrible or so 496 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 2: shameful or so devastating that I. 497 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:04,719 Speaker 4: Would judge them for it. 498 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 2: We've heard a lot, and so I say, bring it 499 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 2: all in, Lay it out on the table. You know, 500 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,919 Speaker 2: tell us about your sex life, tell us about the 501 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 2: times you've done things that you're really not proud of 502 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 2: yourself for. Tell us about the mistakes you've made. We 503 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,160 Speaker 2: understand that you're human and it's our job. 504 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 4: We're here to help. 505 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: So it's just laying out all the mess. Just lay 506 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: it all out, no shame, just go for it. 507 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 4: And will help you sort through it. 508 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,160 Speaker 1: So is there anything that you do as a therapist 509 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 1: to make sure that the client feels really comfortable? 510 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 2: The thing I focus on for myself and in terms 511 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 2: of how I show up in the room is authenticity. 512 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 2: While I don't necessarily reveal a lot about myself and 513 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 2: my life to my clients, you know, they wouldn't know 514 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:59,679 Speaker 2: about my personal relationships and things like that. I always 515 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 2: always aim to show up emotionally in a way that's authentic. 516 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 2: So I don't have a different persona when I walk 517 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 2: into the therapy room. I'm me, not at a stage 518 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 2: of the psychologist. I'm still just Anastasia, the same way 519 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:15,920 Speaker 2: I'm talking on this podcast with you, in the same 520 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 2: way I am in the workplace, pretty much the same 521 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,679 Speaker 2: I am with friends, family, etc. Those parts of my 522 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 2: personality are still there, and I think that's not going 523 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 2: to work for everyone, right, People gel with others in 524 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 2: different ways, So my personality and who I am as 525 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 2: a person might not be the right fit for everyone, 526 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 2: and that's okay. But I always aim to show up 527 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 2: authentically because that's what I'm asking my clients to do. 528 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 4: I'm asking people to come in here and be vulnerable and. 529 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 2: Be authentic, so I need to show them the same 530 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 2: respect in return. 531 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: So what you're trying to tell us is that we've 532 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 1: been in the therapy with you this whole season because 533 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: you've been the same person. 534 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 4: Right, It's like being in the therapy. 535 00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: Anastasia without you, guys knowing. Surprise. Okay, So where does 536 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: tellyhealth come into all of this? Because a lot of 537 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: people are using it more right. 538 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 4: Absolutely since COVID. 539 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 2: I mean it was one of the beneficial things that 540 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 2: came out of COVID is that we realized, hey, online 541 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 2: therapy really can work. And actually there's been a lot 542 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 2: of research done into this. Whether in person or online 543 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 2: therapy is more effective and really the results are pretty similar. 544 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 2: Online telehealth sessions can be just as effective as in person. 545 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 2: Now some people prefer in person they feel more connected 546 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 2: to their therapist, but online can be really really useful. 547 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 2: And the other thing about online that I really like 548 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 2: is it's convenient and it's accessible. 549 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 4: You know, if you live. 550 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 2: In a rural or remote or regional area, or if 551 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 2: you have a busy work schedule, you can schedule and 552 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 2: appointments in your lunch break or just after you finish work. 553 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 2: You don't have to worry about the commutes to go 554 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 2: and see the therapists. So people can fit it into 555 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 2: their schedules more easily nowadays as well with online therapy, 556 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 2: and I think that breaks down one of the barriers 557 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 2: to actually being able to access it. 558 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 1: So with telehealth, like, is it cheaper than seeing someone 559 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: face to face? 560 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 2: It can be, but it might not be depends on 561 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 2: the therapist, the service that you're going through, and the 562 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 2: sort of fees that they charge. I do know that 563 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 2: there are some clinicians who do only telehealth, and sometimes 564 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 2: they're in a position where they can offer reduced fee 565 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 2: sessions because they don't have the overheads of needing a 566 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 2: physical space. They do the therapy from their home, so 567 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 2: their kind of costs of running their practice are lower 568 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 2: than what someone else's might be. So there definitely can 569 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 2: be some telehealth options that can be cheaper than in person, 570 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 2: but also cost is a barrier, right, and so I 571 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 2: want to really highlight that because it can mean that 572 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 2: people who need to see someone feel like they're not 573 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 2: able to because of how expensive it can be. There 574 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:05,959 Speaker 2: are some fantastic self help online resources these days so 575 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 2: too that I'm going to give a little bit of 576 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 2: a shout out to. There's a pro program or online 577 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 2: service called this Way up Right, evidence based programs that 578 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 2: are specific for different mental health conditions. So there's like 579 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 2: one for OCD, one for anxiety. You work through them 580 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 2: at your own pace, and they're very accessible. Sometimes you 581 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 2: can get them for free, sometimes it's a very low cost. 582 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 2: But there's also a clinic called mind spot right. This 583 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 2: is run out of McClary University actually, and what it 584 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 2: is it's again online evidence based programs that you work 585 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 2: through and you can get either phone or email support 586 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 2: from a therapist as you work through it. 587 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 4: So these kind of fall into. 588 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 2: The category of what I would refer to as like 589 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 2: early intervention self help type programs that can be assisted 590 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 2: by a therapist. They may not be the right treatment 591 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 2: approach for someone who's experiencing very severe mental health concerns, 592 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 2: but for someone who wants to do something to help 593 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 2: themselves but doesn't feel like seeing a therapist online or 594 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 2: in person is the right step. 595 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 4: Right now, there are these. 596 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 2: Kinds of evidence based options, often run via universities that 597 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 2: can be great resources. 598 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: So what do you do for someone that feels like 599 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: they might have a severe issue and they don't think 600 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: the self pace is going to work and just having 601 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: a bit of support here and there isn't going to work. So, like, 602 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: what should we do for people that have a very 603 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: severe condition and still need that one on one, hands 604 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 1: on support and they might not have the money for it. 605 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 4: Through your local health services. 606 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 2: At least in Australia, we're lucky here we have access 607 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 2: to some free options. You are able to see mental 608 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 2: health professional psychologists, psychiatrists. The issue is that there's often 609 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 2: a weight, So it's not that you're unable to access 610 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 2: free or very low cost mental health services in Australia. 611 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 2: It might just be that you are waiting to get 612 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 2: in to see someone. I guess this is also the 613 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 2: point where I want to say we've talked a lot 614 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 2: about how to find a therapist and get into the 615 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 2: groove of therapy for people who really have the luxury 616 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 2: of being able to seek out and see a therapist. 617 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 2: And that's not everyone, right, and not everyone can wait. 618 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 2: So for people out there who may be struggling, who 619 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 2: may be having an acute episode of mental health distress, 620 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 2: or who might just need quite urgent assistance, I would 621 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 2: encourage you to consider going to the emergency department, calling 622 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 2: Triple zero, calling Lifeline, or calling the mental health line. 623 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 2: So in New South Wales where we're based, we have 624 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 2: the Acute Care Team and a mental health line where 625 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 2: you can call for yourself or for someone else to 626 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 2: make a referral for someone who's needing some acute care, 627 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 2: and different states have their own hotline for this, so 628 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 2: you can look that up online, but there is definitely 629 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 2: immediate help available when you need it. 630 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: After this shotbreak, we hear from someone who wants to 631 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: break up with her therapist, but she doesn't know how 632 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 1: stay with us. 633 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:17,839 Speaker 4: Erb Barb Bibby. 634 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,599 Speaker 2: I'm having a serious crisis, Berb having a crisis. 635 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,519 Speaker 1: Okay, we've reached that time in our episode where we 636 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,919 Speaker 1: answer a question or dilemma from one of you, our listeners, 637 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 1: And this one's a really special one because it's the 638 00:34:32,359 --> 00:34:36,759 Speaker 1: last one for the season. And yeah, I'm very excited 639 00:34:36,759 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: about this one. You're about to hear from Ariana. 640 00:34:40,319 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 3: I've been seeing my therapist for like two years and 641 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:44,959 Speaker 3: she's really helped me a lot, But honestly, I feel 642 00:34:44,959 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 3: like I don't really need therapy right now. The problem 643 00:34:47,799 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 3: is I have no idea how to actually break up 644 00:34:50,759 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 3: with her. We're not friends or anything, so it feels 645 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,879 Speaker 3: weird to just stop going without saying anything. Do I 646 00:34:55,959 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 3: have to tell her I'm done? Should I email, call 647 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:01,799 Speaker 3: or bring it up next session. I don't want to 648 00:35:01,839 --> 00:35:04,079 Speaker 3: be rude or make it awkward, but I don't want 649 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 3: to keep going if it's not helping me anymore. So, like, 650 00:35:06,879 --> 00:35:08,559 Speaker 3: what's the best way to handle this. 651 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,439 Speaker 2: Ah, therapy goodbyes, the therapy breakup. 652 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 4: This happens all the time. 653 00:35:17,879 --> 00:35:19,639 Speaker 2: No, you know what, first thing I have to say 654 00:35:19,919 --> 00:35:23,599 Speaker 2: is don't worry about it too much. Right there's no 655 00:35:23,959 --> 00:35:27,439 Speaker 2: perfect way to do this, but it's important that you 656 00:35:27,439 --> 00:35:30,319 Speaker 2: communicate to your therapist if you feel like you're. 657 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 4: In a good place, because hooray, that's. 658 00:35:32,279 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 2: Great, that's what we want, right We don't want you 659 00:35:34,279 --> 00:35:38,399 Speaker 2: to be in therapy forever. Therapy should be for a 660 00:35:38,439 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 2: period of time until you feel like you're at a 661 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,719 Speaker 2: good place where you can go out into the world 662 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,879 Speaker 2: on your own and the door is always open where 663 00:35:46,919 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 2: here if you ever want to come back and re 664 00:35:48,799 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 2: engage any point in the future. 665 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:52,839 Speaker 4: But if you're wondering how. 666 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,599 Speaker 2: To do the actual goodbye, there could be a couple 667 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 2: of different ways. You could send an email to say 668 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,319 Speaker 2: thanks for your help. I actually feel like I'm in 669 00:36:01,319 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 2: a really good place right now. I feel confident to 670 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,559 Speaker 2: be able to here's the skills and strategies you've taught me, 671 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 2: and I'm not struggling with the things that I was 672 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:10,159 Speaker 2: struggling with two years ago. 673 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 4: So I think I'd like to pause things. 674 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 2: For now, and if I need anything in the future, 675 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 2: I'll email you again, and you know what. 676 00:36:17,799 --> 00:36:19,319 Speaker 4: That's always a It's a. 677 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,959 Speaker 2: Bitter sweet email to reply, right Like, I have a 678 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,999 Speaker 2: fondness for my clients, and of course I'm going to 679 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:26,959 Speaker 2: be a little bit sad if i don't get to 680 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:27,999 Speaker 2: see them anymore. 681 00:36:28,439 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 4: But when I end. 682 00:36:30,479 --> 00:36:33,639 Speaker 2: A therapeutic journey with a client, I'll say to them 683 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:34,599 Speaker 2: in a joking way. 684 00:36:35,359 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 4: I mean this in the nicest way possible, but I 685 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,679 Speaker 4: hope I never see you again, because that's a good 686 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:42,479 Speaker 4: sign for you. It's not that I don't want to 687 00:36:42,479 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 4: see you again. I like you, but. 688 00:36:45,879 --> 00:36:48,919 Speaker 2: I hope that you feel like you can go through 689 00:36:48,959 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 2: life without needing my help. 690 00:36:51,279 --> 00:36:54,520 Speaker 1: So there is an end point to therapy. 691 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 4: There should be. Yeah, look, not for everyone. 692 00:36:57,799 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 2: There are people who will be in and out of 693 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,759 Speaker 2: therapy throughout their life, depending on what their diagnosis might be. 694 00:37:05,319 --> 00:37:07,519 Speaker 2: But for many of us, there should be an end 695 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 2: point to therapy. 696 00:37:08,799 --> 00:37:13,079 Speaker 1: So they determine the endpoint or do you like, how 697 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: does that happen? 698 00:37:14,879 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 4: This is actually a really good question. 699 00:37:16,799 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 2: I'll have a conversation with my clients at a certain 700 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 2: point where I think they don't really need me anymore, 701 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:29,679 Speaker 2: because ethically, I have a professional duty to let someone know, Hey, 702 00:37:29,839 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 2: you know that anxiety you came in with a year ago, Well, it. 703 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:34,999 Speaker 4: Looks like it's not there anymore. Good on you. 704 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 2: So I'll have a conversation with someone where I say 705 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,919 Speaker 2: something like, based on the reasons you originally came in, 706 00:37:42,319 --> 00:37:45,759 Speaker 2: it seems like you've made leaps and bounds in your progress, 707 00:37:46,319 --> 00:37:50,359 Speaker 2: and I'm wondering if you even need to keep continuing 708 00:37:50,839 --> 00:37:54,519 Speaker 2: with sessions. That's not to say I'm kicking you out 709 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,279 Speaker 2: the door and you can't come back. You can, of 710 00:37:56,399 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 2: course keep coming for sessions if you want, but I 711 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:03,319 Speaker 2: want to let you know that, from my opinion, you're doing. 712 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 4: Heaps better now. 713 00:38:05,759 --> 00:38:09,480 Speaker 2: That for me is letting the client know you don't 714 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,839 Speaker 2: need to come from a kind of professional clinical diagnosis perspective. 715 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,759 Speaker 2: We've ticked the box and you're doing heaps better. Right, 716 00:38:16,799 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 2: So that's my professional duty to let someone know that. 717 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,599 Speaker 2: But I'm leaving the option up to them if they 718 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,519 Speaker 2: want to keep coming and talking through things that are 719 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,519 Speaker 2: going on in their life, for things that might be 720 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,679 Speaker 2: challenges for them and stressing them out. We can absolutely 721 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,120 Speaker 2: do that, but I don't want people to feel like 722 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,160 Speaker 2: they need to keep coming, and so once I reach 723 00:38:36,319 --> 00:38:40,159 Speaker 2: that point with a client, I'll often finish sessions by 724 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 2: saying something like, what would you like to do for 725 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:44,959 Speaker 2: the next one? What do you think we should do? 726 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:46,519 Speaker 2: When does it feel like it would be a good 727 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 2: time for you to come back and have another session. 728 00:38:48,839 --> 00:38:51,919 Speaker 2: If someone is not needing to follow a strict treatment 729 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,999 Speaker 2: plan to overcome a clinical diagnosis, we can be much 730 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,640 Speaker 2: more flexible in the way that we do therapy, and so. 731 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,239 Speaker 4: I always want to leave the door. 732 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,039 Speaker 2: Open for a client to feel like they have autonomy 733 00:39:03,439 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 2: in making that decision. 734 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:05,799 Speaker 4: Can you tell us. 735 00:39:05,759 --> 00:39:08,839 Speaker 1: Some of your breakup stories? I'm really keen to hear 736 00:39:08,879 --> 00:39:13,599 Speaker 1: more about your breakup story the collection. Yes, let's get 737 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 1: out the archives. 738 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:15,200 Speaker 4: Look. 739 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:17,359 Speaker 2: I guess this example has been kind of a nice 740 00:39:17,439 --> 00:39:19,959 Speaker 2: neat one where someone's done therapy, they've got better, it's 741 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,359 Speaker 2: been two years, they're ending, right, there's a nice close. 742 00:39:23,439 --> 00:39:27,759 Speaker 2: Sometimes we get the no reply, like we're like, hey, 743 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,600 Speaker 2: would you like another session? We've been, you know, doing 744 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,519 Speaker 2: some work in therapy. Would you like to come back? 745 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 2: And sometimes people will you know, ghost us, you got ghosted, 746 00:39:36,879 --> 00:39:39,879 Speaker 2: been ghosted not a couple of times, but you know 747 00:39:39,919 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 2: what I in any of these situations, I try to 748 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:47,439 Speaker 2: tell myself, like, don't take it personally, Like I'm leaving 749 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,879 Speaker 2: the door open. If there's some feedback a client wants 750 00:39:49,919 --> 00:39:51,559 Speaker 2: to give me of like, hey, you wanted to take 751 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:52,919 Speaker 2: me down this path, but I didn't want to go 752 00:39:52,959 --> 00:39:54,919 Speaker 2: down that path, you know, I like to think that. 753 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,399 Speaker 2: I'm open to hearing that. So I'm open to the 754 00:39:58,399 --> 00:40:02,399 Speaker 2: feedback and also understand that it's not the right fit 755 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 2: for everyone. 756 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:04,039 Speaker 4: I'm not going to be the. 757 00:40:03,959 --> 00:40:07,239 Speaker 2: Best psychologist for every person who walks through the door. 758 00:40:07,359 --> 00:40:07,879 Speaker 4: I know that. 759 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,640 Speaker 2: And so if we have a couple of session and 760 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,239 Speaker 2: someone's like, oh, that Anastasia girls, she's too casual for me. Like, 761 00:40:14,279 --> 00:40:17,599 Speaker 2: I'm pretty casual in my therapy sessions. Other psychologists are 762 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:21,959 Speaker 2: way more sort of like therapists behind the clipboard, more reserved. 763 00:40:21,439 --> 00:40:22,039 Speaker 4: Than I am. 764 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,319 Speaker 2: That's fine, but I know I'm not going to be 765 00:40:24,399 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 2: the right therapist for everyone, and so I take that 766 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,639 Speaker 2: on board when clients may be say, you know what, 767 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:32,560 Speaker 2: I'm gonna try someone else, And in that case, I 768 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 2: might help them find some some other therapists or give 769 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:36,959 Speaker 2: them some recommendations for what they're after. 770 00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:47,040 Speaker 1: At Assia, I'm so happy that we had this discussion 771 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:51,479 Speaker 1: because therapy can feel so overwhelming and intimidating at times, 772 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,879 Speaker 1: So I'm really glad you got to step everything out. 773 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,279 Speaker 1: Can you reiterate to us some of the main takeaways 774 00:40:57,319 --> 00:40:58,839 Speaker 1: from today's episode. 775 00:40:58,560 --> 00:40:59,320 Speaker 4: One hundred percent? 776 00:40:59,959 --> 00:41:03,800 Speaker 2: First up, the process of going to therapy can feel 777 00:41:03,799 --> 00:41:06,279 Speaker 2: overwhelming and a bit scary for those who've never done 778 00:41:06,319 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 2: it before. Second, sometimes people have some inaccurate expectations about 779 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,079 Speaker 2: therapy and what it will do for you. People might 780 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,639 Speaker 2: think that they can get immediate results or think the 781 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:22,320 Speaker 2: therapists can fix all their problems. Therapy, in fact, often 782 00:41:22,359 --> 00:41:27,319 Speaker 2: requires you to do some work outside of the therapy room. Next, 783 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,239 Speaker 2: try to be as open and honest as you can 784 00:41:30,319 --> 00:41:33,360 Speaker 2: be with your therapist. The more we know, the better 785 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,239 Speaker 2: we can help you. Nothing is off limits. And finally, 786 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:42,200 Speaker 2: ensure that you feel you have a solid therapeutic relationship 787 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 2: with your therapist. The relationship is the biggest predictor of change, 788 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,919 Speaker 2: so if that doesn't feel right, always consider trying another therapist. 789 00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:54,200 Speaker 1: Anthysia, I can't believe it. This is our last episode 790 00:41:54,399 --> 00:41:55,279 Speaker 1: for this season. 791 00:41:55,919 --> 00:41:59,719 Speaker 2: Oh, it makes me a bit emotional. What an incredible 792 00:41:59,799 --> 00:42:00,799 Speaker 2: nine weeks it's been. 793 00:42:00,839 --> 00:42:02,119 Speaker 4: Hey, we've covered. 794 00:42:01,839 --> 00:42:06,479 Speaker 2: So much ground, from boundaries to narcissism, to inner critics 795 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:08,759 Speaker 2: to dating guys. 796 00:42:08,839 --> 00:42:11,320 Speaker 1: If you have loved this show as much as we've 797 00:42:11,439 --> 00:42:14,080 Speaker 1: loved making it for you, please do leave us a 798 00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,759 Speaker 1: rating and a review Wherever you're listening to us, follow 799 00:42:17,839 --> 00:42:21,759 Speaker 1: us on Instagram and TikTok at But Are You Happy Pod, 800 00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,560 Speaker 1: and stay in touch. It really does make a massive difference. 801 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,999 Speaker 2: And if you're not already following this podcast, make sure 802 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,599 Speaker 2: you hit that follow button to hear updates from us 803 00:42:31,799 --> 00:42:35,319 Speaker 2: soon about when we will be back in your ears 804 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,239 Speaker 2: with the next season of But Are You Happy? 805 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,279 Speaker 1: Until then, be kind to yourselves out there. 806 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:45,160 Speaker 2: The executive producer of But Are You Happy is Niama Brown. 807 00:42:45,879 --> 00:42:48,080 Speaker 1: Tarlie Blackman is our senior producer. 808 00:42:48,959 --> 00:42:51,360 Speaker 4: Sound design and editing by Jacob Brown. 809 00:42:51,919 --> 00:42:53,719 Speaker 1: I'm a Shany Dante and. 810 00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:57,400 Speaker 2: I'm doctor Anastasia Hornus. The names and stories of clients 811 00:42:57,479 --> 00:43:01,279 Speaker 2: discussed have been changed for the purposes of maintaining anonymity. 812 00:43:01,879 --> 00:43:04,799 Speaker 2: If this conversation brought up any difficult feelings for you, 813 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,759 Speaker 2: we have links for more resources in the show notes 814 00:43:07,839 --> 00:43:11,119 Speaker 2: around the topics we discussed today. You can also reach 815 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,559 Speaker 2: out to organizations like Beyond Blue or Lifeline if you're 816 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:16,279 Speaker 2: wanting more immediate support. 817 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,599 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.