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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 1: I'm Claire Murphy. This is Mumma MIA's daily news podcast,

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Speaker 1: The Quickie. Julian Assange is almost a free man. Late yesterday,

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Speaker 1: it was revealed that the Australian journalist and founder of

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Speaker 1: wikileagues would plead guilty to a felony espionage charge that

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Speaker 1: would allow him, with time served, to go free, ending

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Speaker 1: the nearly two decades fight against the extradition request from

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Speaker 1: the US government. But what happens now? Before we find

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Speaker 1: out what went down yesterday and what will happen today

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Speaker 1: with this case, Let's find out the latest news headlines. Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: June twenty six, WikiLeaks has posted more photos of founder

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Speaker 1: Julian Assange, this time from inside the plane that was

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Speaker 1: taking him from the UK to the Northern Mariana Islands

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Speaker 1: via Thailand yesterday. The account on Twitter simply stated approaching

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Speaker 1: Bangkok Airport for layover, moving closer to freedom. Assigne having

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Speaker 1: agreed to plead guilty to one count of conspiring to

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Speaker 1: obtain and disclose classified US national defense documents. They posted

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Speaker 1: they were in the air again and would be in

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Speaker 1: US airspace in less than four hours, saying out of prison,

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Speaker 1: but not quite free yet, describing how the world watching

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Speaker 1: stopped UK police from illegally storming assigned as embassy asylum

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Speaker 1: back in twenty twelve, and asking for the world to

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Speaker 1: keep following the assaged jet. They then posted a video

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Speaker 1: of him inside the plane, staring out of the window,

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Speaker 1: writing imagine from over five years in a small cell

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Speaker 1: and a maximum security prison, nearly fourteen years detained in

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Speaker 1: the UK to this. They then said for the privilege,

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Speaker 1: Julian Assange must pay over half a million US dollars,

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Speaker 1: asking for help via crowdfunding. For the first time since

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Speaker 1: two thousand and five, a Labour Party member has crossed

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Speaker 1: the floor wa Senator Fatima Payment, defying her party's position

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Speaker 1: and voting to brand recognition of a Palestinian state as

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Speaker 1: an urgent EA issue. Whether or not she remains a

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Speaker 1: Labour senator is now in the hands of her caucus colleagues,

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Speaker 1: with Labour members expected to follow the party's position unless

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Speaker 1: there's a mandated sanction for crossing the floor, which was

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Speaker 1: not in place in this instance. Senator Payment said she

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Speaker 1: was following her conscience and what the rank and file

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Speaker 1: members have been asking of them, which was to do

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Speaker 1: more as a party that takes pride in the fight

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Speaker 1: towards human rights and being champions of justice. The parents

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Speaker 1: of school aged YouTube fans will be asking to head

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Speaker 1: to the Sydney Opera House today with one of the

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Speaker 1: platform's biggest stars, miss to Beast, expected to do one

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Speaker 1: of his famous giveaways today. The fore court of the

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Speaker 1: iconic Ozzie Landmark will be close to the general public

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Speaker 1: from six thirty am to nine pm while mister Beast

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Speaker 1: gives away ten cars, including a Lamborghini, all part of

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Speaker 1: a marketing push for his chocolate line Feastables. Only those

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Speaker 1: who managed to grab the free tickets will be allowed

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Speaker 1: into the site to buy for the rides. NFL star

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Speaker 1: Travis Kelce has described his early relationship with Taylor Swift

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Speaker 1: and the moment he truly fell for her. Kelsey explained

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Speaker 1: how at the beginning, they're trying to keep it just

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Speaker 1: between them as much as possible, but as soon as

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Speaker 1: she came to a game, it was on saying I'm

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Speaker 1: not here to hide anything like that's my girl, that's

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Speaker 1: my lady. So I'm proud of that, he said. It's

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Speaker 1: not like I'm sitting there trying to juggle and see

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Speaker 1: how I can keep this under wraps. He described how

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Speaker 1: it was when he could see how genuine she was

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Speaker 1: around her family and friends that he really started to

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Speaker 1: fall for her, saying he told her he could set

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Speaker 1: her up at games so she wouldn't have to be

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Speaker 1: the focus of the cameras every few minutes, but she

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Speaker 1: said no, She'd rather be around friends and family and

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Speaker 1: experience it with everyone. Kelsey's saying, he was like, damn,

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Speaker 1: she's a madness. She wants to be part of it.

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Speaker 1: She wants to support me. She really won me over

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Speaker 1: with that. That's the latest from the QUICKI newsroom. Next,

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Speaker 1: what led to Juliana Asane jumping on a plane and

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Speaker 1: leaving the UK yesterday, not extradited to the US as

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Speaker 1: we all thought he would be, We find out what

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Speaker 1: now for the Ossie. Founder of WikiLeaks. Back in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and six, when he was thirty five years old,

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Speaker 1: Australian journalist Julian Assange founded WikiLeaks, a nonprofit media organization

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Speaker 1: and publisher of leaked documents. The Wikileak's website published classified

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Speaker 1: documents and other media provided to them by anonymous sources.

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Speaker 1: Assange had quite the history already, the Townsville boy, known

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Speaker 1: as the country's most prolific hacker. One of his Wikileak's

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Speaker 1: sources provided them with a procedures manual for Camp Delta,

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Speaker 1: a US detention center at Guantanamo Bay. Three years later,

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Speaker 1: in twenty ten, another source provided a video of a

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Speaker 1: US military helicopter firing on and killing two journalists and

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Speaker 1: several Iraqi civilians who the US government claimed were armed insurgents. Then,

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Speaker 1: on July twenty five, twenty ten, WikiLeaks posted more than

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Speaker 1: ninety thousand classified documents related to the war in Afghanistan.

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Speaker 1: The documents included logs revealed the information on the unreported

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Speaker 1: deaths of civilians, Taliban attacks, and the involvement of other

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Speaker 1: countries in the insurgency. A month later, and Swedish authorities

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Speaker 1: issued an arrest warrant for Juliana sanj not to do

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Speaker 1: with the leaked documents, but for allegations of sexual assault.

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Speaker 1: The warrant was rescinded a day later. In October twenty ten,

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Speaker 1: Wikileagues published more classified documents, this time relating to the

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Speaker 1: war in Iraq. It would reveal a dramatic difference between

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Speaker 1: the recorded number of civilian deaths and the actual number.

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Speaker 1: They also showed that US soldiers had handed prisoners over

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Speaker 1: to the Iraqi Wolf Brigade, who've been accused of beating, torturing,

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Speaker 1: and executing them. The logs showed that the US military

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Speaker 1: had failed to investigate hundreds of reports of alleged abuse, torture, rape,

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Speaker 1: and murder at the hands of the Iraqi police and soldiers.

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Speaker 1: One report showed a US military helicopter gunship opening fire

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Speaker 1: on Iraqi insurgents who were trying to surrender.

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Speaker 3: Come on in this video, I think you see the

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Speaker 3: corruption of pilots and the military by war itself. These

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Speaker 3: young pilots acting like they're playing video games, only the

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Speaker 3: highest scores they are getting, with real human lives.

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Speaker 1: In November that year, Assange had an international arrest warrant

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Speaker 1: issued for him by the criminal court in Stockholm relating

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Speaker 1: to the alleged sexual assault charge. Just over a week later,

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Speaker 1: and Wikiliks published explosive diplomatic cables from US embassies. This

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Speaker 1: information had been given to them by Chelsea Manning, who

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Speaker 1: would later be convicted of theft and violations of the

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Speaker 1: Espionage Act, doing seven years of her thirty five year sentence,

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Speaker 1: her time commuted by then President Barack Obama. Those diplomatic

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Speaker 1: cables would verify that the US had conducted secret drone

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Speaker 1: strikes in Yemen, that it had tried to gather information

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Speaker 1: on representatives at the UN, how the Saudi royal family

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Speaker 1: had asked the US to strike Iran, and a description

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Speaker 1: of Russia under the rule of Vladimir Putin as a

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Speaker 1: virtual mafia state. At the end of twenty ten, Julian

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Speaker 1: Assange handed himself over to authorities in London. He was

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Speaker 1: released on bail and put under house arrests. Several days later,

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Speaker 1: a judge ruling in September twenty eleven that he is

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Speaker 1: to be extradited to Sweden to face the sexual assault charge.

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Speaker 1: Assanje applied to take his appeal against the extradition to

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court, but the appeal was denied. A two

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Speaker 1: weeks stay was given in order for him to file again,

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Speaker 1: but on June nineteen, twenty twelve, concerned that the extradition

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Speaker 1: to Sweden was actually a roundabout way to get him

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Speaker 1: extradited to the US to face espionage charges. Julian Assange

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Speaker 1: entered the Ecuadorian embassy in London, requesting political asylum, and

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Speaker 1: there he would stay for the next seven years.

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Speaker 4: Thanks to the principal stands of the Ecuadorian government and

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Speaker 4: the support of its people, I am safe in this

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Speaker 4: embassy and I am grateful for the efforts of people

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Speaker 4: all around the world the work of Wikiique.

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Speaker 1: Despite becoming a citizen of Ecuador in twenty seventeen, two

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Speaker 1: years later, his welcome at the embassy in London had

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Speaker 1: well and truly run out. There were stories that Assigne

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Speaker 1: had been late nights skateboarding through the building, had harassed

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Speaker 1: his caretakers, and there were even stories about him smearing

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Speaker 1: his own feces on the walls. Ecuador was also spending

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Speaker 1: almost one million dollars US a year protecting their guest,

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Speaker 1: so in April twenty nineteen, Ecuador ended his asylum, handing

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Speaker 1: him over to British police. He was arrested on an

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Speaker 1: extradition warrant from the US Justice Department, charged with conspiracy

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Speaker 1: to attempt to hack a computer in connection to the

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Speaker 1: twenty ten cable legs, along with seventeen other additional charges

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Speaker 1: from twenty nineteen to twenty twenty four, Assige had been

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Speaker 1: held in a maximum security prison in London, his lawyers

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Speaker 1: fighting the extradition attempts from the US, which culminated in

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Speaker 1: another extension this year after the US couldn't confirm that

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Speaker 1: Assigne wouldn't be denied the same rights as a US citizen,

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Speaker 1: being that he's an Australian under the Constitution's freedom of speech.

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Speaker 1: Then last week, Juliana Sanger's wife Stella posted this video

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Speaker 1: from outside the prison where Juliana Sange was being held.

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Speaker 2: Twelve years on. I'm visiting Julian in a high security prison.

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Speaker 2: But this period of our lives, I'm confident now has

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Speaker 2: come to an end and I think that by this

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Speaker 2: time next week Julian will be free.

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Speaker 5: And she was right.

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Speaker 1: Yesterday the news broke that Assange would be released from

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Speaker 1: Belmarsh Prison after spending one thy nine hundred and one

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Speaker 1: days locked up in the UK, granted bail by the

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Speaker 1: High Court in London, to be immediately taken to Stanstead Airport,

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Speaker 1: where he boarded a plane for the Mariana Islands, a

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Speaker 1: US territory north of Australia on the other side of

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Speaker 1: Papua New Guinea.

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Speaker 5: In the Pacific.

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Speaker 1: WikiLeaks posted on Twitter a picture of Assange boarding the

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Speaker 1: plane with a message, Julian Assange is free. The reason

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Speaker 1: for this unusual destiny the nation was reportedly due to

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Speaker 1: assigned not wanting to spend even a moment on continental

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Speaker 1: US soil, just in case he ended up not being

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Speaker 1: able to leave. He's reportedly agreed to a plea deal

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Speaker 1: where he'll admit guilt to one count of conspiring to

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Speaker 1: obtain and disclose classified US national defense documents, and with

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Speaker 1: time served, he can be released to head back home

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Speaker 1: here to Australia. Julian Assigner's parents have spoken about their

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Speaker 1: son's release, saying they're glad the ordeal can finally be over.

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Speaker 1: Labour MP Julian Hill said that no one should judge

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Speaker 1: Julian for accepting a deal to get the hell out

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Speaker 1: of there and come home. His health is fragile. National's

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Speaker 1: MP Barnaby Joyce, who was part of a group of

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Speaker 1: politicians who'd been campaigning for the journalist's release, visiting the

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Speaker 1: US to lobby authorities on the matter, said it showed

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Speaker 1: many people from all sides of politics, for different reasons,

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Speaker 1: arrived at the same place, So what happens now. Kim

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Speaker 1: Statton is the writer and director of the Trustful Jibs

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Speaker 1: Assigned documentary. Kim, are you surprised that Juliana Scienti has

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Speaker 1: taken this plea deal? Was it always going to end

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Speaker 1: this way? Or are you a bit shocked by it?

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Speaker 6: Well, it's hard to find words at the moment, because

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Speaker 6: this is incredible news. It's what we've all been working

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Speaker 6: towards and waiting for. I didn't really expect to end

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Speaker 6: so soon and for him to gain his freedom quite

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Speaker 6: in this way, although it was something that was suggested

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Speaker 6: for about the last year from his legal team that

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Speaker 6: it might be resolved through a lee bargain. I'm really

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Speaker 6: happy for him and for his family, and whatever way

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Speaker 6: it's resolved, it's just fantastic that it's being resolved and

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Speaker 6: that he is getting his freedom.

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Speaker 1: How much do you think the political discussions happening behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes have influenced this pathway to his freedom. Just

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Speaker 1: a few months ago we heard from Joe Biden who

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Speaker 1: said he was considering a request from the Australian government

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Speaker 1: to drop the prosecution against Julian Assange, and we've had

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Speaker 1: other politicians go overseas and plead their case as well

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Speaker 1: as other dipsmatic channels. How much do you think that

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Speaker 1: has influenced his ability to be a free.

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Speaker 5: Man right now?

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Speaker 6: I think the pressure has been building for all of

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Speaker 6: these years from all directions, and we saw really significant

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Speaker 6: improvement development with Anthony Alberni, the Aberanese government coming in

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Speaker 6: being the first government in Australia to actually call for

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Speaker 6: his freedom. There's been joint letters by basically every human

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Speaker 6: rights and free speech organization, and joint letters by some

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Speaker 6: major newspapers, activists all over the world, books, films. You know,

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Speaker 6: we made a documentary to advocate for Julian and it's

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Speaker 6: a combination of the efforts of thousands of people. Politically,

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Speaker 6: the pressure cook has been building. It just has got

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Speaker 6: to a point where this whole situation has become really

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Speaker 6: an embarrassment to the US, maybe even as embarrassing as

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Speaker 6: the disclosures that which Leaks actually released that they revealed

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Speaker 6: to the world.

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Speaker 1: I know you don't speak on behalf of julian assigns,

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Speaker 1: but what moral do you think it would have taken

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Speaker 1: for him, as somebody who has been so steadfast in

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Speaker 1: fighting this, You know, more than a decade and for

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Speaker 1: him to have to plead guilty to a felony charge

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Speaker 1: of espionage. Do you think that morally this would have

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Speaker 1: been a tough choice for him.

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Speaker 6: I think so. You know, as I said, I didn't

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Speaker 6: think it would end with a plea deal because he's

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Speaker 6: always stood up to his principles. I don't think it

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Speaker 6: would have been easy for him to agree to that deal.

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Speaker 6: I think his family just wanted him to get his

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Speaker 6: freedom and get out of there in any way that

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Speaker 6: was possible. And because of this unprecedented and incredible period

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Speaker 6: of time that he's been arbitrary detained in Belmarsh Prison

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Speaker 6: more than five years. As I understand, this plea deal

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Speaker 6: is going to result in his immediate freedom. Because of

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Speaker 6: that time, it'll be considered time served. It's always seemed

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Speaker 6: to be inappropriate that he was held for so long

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Speaker 6: when the charge initially was breaching bail would normally carries

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Speaker 6: a nine month or twelve month prison sentence. But yeah,

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Speaker 6: the duel in that I understand is someone that doesn't

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Speaker 6: sell out to anybody, won't compromise on his principles. It

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Speaker 6: would have been very difficult for him to be put

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Speaker 6: on record as pleading guilty, but I think it's got

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Speaker 6: to that point of desperation where his health is declining,

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Speaker 6: but him also realizing that he just can't continue to

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Speaker 6: be held in those awful conditions.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned there that it would have been worse for

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Speaker 1: him to have been extradited to the US. What's worst

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Speaker 1: case scenario? What was he facing had they been successful

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Speaker 1: in all of these appeal processes over the years, had

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Speaker 1: he been actually.

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Speaker 6: Extradited, Well, if he was extradited to face trial for

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Speaker 6: the eighteen count indictment under the Espionage Act, it would

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Speaker 6: have held a potential one one hundred and seventy five

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Speaker 6: year prison sentence, which is a virtual death sentence. He'd

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Speaker 6: be just in prison the rest of his life, possibly

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Speaker 6: would have served out some of the time in Australia.

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Speaker 6: Then he would have had to do more appeals against

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Speaker 6: the sentence, and he also would have been held under

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Speaker 6: special administrative measures otherwise known as torture in the US.

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Speaker 6: Presumably they would have tortured him to get information out

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Speaker 6: of him, find out what else he knows, and so

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Speaker 6: it just would have been awful. And that's why they

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Speaker 6: found a razor blade hidden in his cell that he

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Speaker 6: saw that he would rather take his own life than

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Speaker 6: be extradited into the hands of the country that has

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Speaker 6: plotted to assassinate him and that have torched him for

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Speaker 6: so many years.

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Speaker 5: Just how bad has his health gotten?

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Speaker 1: If taking his own life he was very willing and

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Speaker 1: ready to do so. His mental health is obviously suffering,

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Speaker 1: his physical health is obviously suffering.

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Speaker 5: Just how bad has it gotten for him?

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Speaker 6: Well, I think only his doctors can really comment on

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Speaker 6: his mental health, but I know that you know he

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Speaker 6: had a mini stroke a couple of years ago. He's

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Speaker 6: left eyelid troops. It looks like he's winking. He's been

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Speaker 6: heavily medicaid. He's been unwell to appear at almost all

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Speaker 6: of the court hearings. It's just the conditions are so torturous.

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Speaker 6: To be in a six meter square cell twenty two

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Speaker 6: hours a day under the United Nations Mandela rules, that's

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Speaker 6: considered torture, and yet they kept that up for five years,

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Speaker 6: on top of the seven years he was in the

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Speaker 6: embassy where he was deprived of light. So it's all

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Speaker 6: of this isolation, difficult conditions, not to mention all the

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Speaker 6: psychological impacts of the isolation, and not knowing what your

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Speaker 6: future holds an incredible stress that that would cause on you.

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Speaker 6: So you can only imagine what he's been through and

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Speaker 6: how that's impacted on his health.

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Speaker 1: Kim, what do you think will happen after assign just

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Speaker 1: back in Australia for some time? I mean, obviously he's

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Speaker 1: going to require some time to readjust to normal life again.

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Speaker 1: But do you think we'll see him become the man

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Speaker 1: who addressed the world from the balcony of the Ecuadorian

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Speaker 1: embassy again?

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Speaker 5: Or is that man gone now?

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Speaker 1: Are we looking at an assigned who might fade away

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Speaker 1: into obscurity from this point.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, that's a really good question. I think his supporters

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Speaker 6: really hope that he will get back into action, and

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Speaker 6: admirers of his work and supporters of wiki leagues would

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Speaker 6: hope that that's possible for him. But I think we

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Speaker 6: can also have compassion and understand that it's his decision

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Speaker 6: of whether he wants to turn to work and how

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Speaker 6: soon he will turn to work. If he decides to

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Speaker 6: do that, I would imagine as soon as he touches

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Speaker 6: down in Australia, he'll be going to a hospital because

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Speaker 6: he will need a lot of treatment PTSD and various

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Speaker 6: health conditions. I would guess that it would take a

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Speaker 6: long time, a year, maybe longer to recover and even

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Speaker 6: think about going back to work. But also we're aware

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Speaker 6: that from his incredible achievements, that he's been on a

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Speaker 6: mission to uncover corruption in the world and to bring

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Speaker 6: about transparency in the press, to take on the mainstream

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Speaker 6: media with truthful information. And it's hard to imagine a

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Speaker 6: Julian Assange not continuing that mission. An experience I had

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Speaker 6: during making the trust Fall, I spoke to a lady

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Speaker 6: from Lismo who provided some photos of Julian when he

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Speaker 6: was young eight years old. She was working with Julian's mother,

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Speaker 6: Christina Sange, and her son and Julian would play together,

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Speaker 6: and she asked Julian one day, what do you want

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Speaker 6: to be when you grow up? And he said, I'm

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Speaker 6: going to end corruption in the world at the age

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Speaker 6: of eight. So it's been his lifelong emission and it's

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Speaker 6: difficult to imagine him not continuing that, and we do

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Speaker 6: hope that he does, but ultimately we hope that he

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Speaker 6: does whatever is right for him.

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Speaker 1: Just finally, Kim, obviously, every TV, radio, newspaper, podcast network

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Speaker 1: in Australia is going to be clamoring for an interview

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Speaker 1: with Julian assigned, which hopefully we do get to hear

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Speaker 1: from him again one day, but after you said, respectfully,

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Speaker 1: after he recovers from everything that he's been through. But

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Speaker 1: if you could sit down with Julianassiane, having studied him

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Speaker 1: in such depth and understanding him from the people around him,

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Speaker 1: what would you want to ask him?

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Speaker 6: Well, I think I would say two things to Julian. First,

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Speaker 6: I would say thank you and then sorry. I would

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Speaker 6: say sorry for taking so long to understand the weight

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Speaker 6: and value of your contribution to humanity. And then I

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Speaker 6: would say thank you for the gifts that you've given

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Speaker 6: us to understanding the world better, coming face to face

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Speaker 6: with the problems, you know, the corruption, war, crimes, torture

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Speaker 6: and stuff that exists in these powerful countries, and for

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Speaker 6: his self sacrifice going through all of this, putting himself

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Speaker 6: at risk, just for us to have a better understanding

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Speaker 6: of how it all operates.

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Speaker 1: Barnaby Joyce also said that the finish line hasn't been

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Speaker 1: reached just yet. Assanane will face a judge on the

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Speaker 1: island of Saipan at nine am this morning. He's expected

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Speaker 1: to be sentenced to sixty two months prison time already served,

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Speaker 1: then released to return home to Australia, with a warning

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Speaker 1: from those who've supported him to this point, nobody do

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Speaker 1: or say anything that made jeofindize the outcome now. The

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Speaker 1: quickie is produced by me Claire Murphy and our senior

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Speaker 1: producer Taylor Strano, with audio production by Tom Lyin.