WEBVTT - Magda Szubanski 0:00:06.816 --> 0:00:10.275 Tired, tired, tired, I said love, I said pet. I 0:00:10.274 --> 0:00:14.086 said I am not on standby to do voice levels. 0:00:14.256 --> 0:00:15.515 It's got to have a cigarette. I don't know how 0:00:15.515 --> 0:00:16.336 to do her without it. 0:00:16.696 --> 0:00:17.656 She got the cigarette. 0:00:19.685 --> 0:00:22.406 Hi, I'm Mia Freedman, and welcome to No Filter, a 0:00:22.406 --> 0:00:25.576 podcast where there is no such thing as too much information. 0:00:26.315 --> 0:00:29.676 My guest today is an Australian icon. She's written some 0:00:29.676 --> 0:00:32.065 of our best comedy shows and created some of our 0:00:32.065 --> 0:00:37.515 favorite characters, including Pashrash netballer Sharon Strzelecki, a chain smoking 0:00:37.515 --> 0:00:41.554 Lynn from Fast Forward. But underneath the many faces and 0:00:41.555 --> 0:00:44.915 complete hilarity, Magda Szubanski is a woman who has struggled 0:00:44.915 --> 0:00:47.755 with her identity for most of her life. For the 0:00:47.756 --> 0:00:52.115 1st 51 years, Magda hid her sexuality entirely from the 0:00:52.116 --> 0:00:52.796 public eye. 0:00:53.404 --> 0:00:55.986 The more famous and successful she became as a comedian 0:00:55.986 --> 0:00:58.675 and as a writer, the harder she had to hide. 0:00:59.506 --> 0:01:01.976 She also had to deal with her father's secret history 0:01:02.265 --> 0:01:04.584 and through all of this, she used food as a 0:01:04.584 --> 0:01:05.425 coping mechanism. 0:01:07.145 --> 0:01:09.986 Reckoning, her first book is a memoir that deals with 0:01:09.986 --> 0:01:13.146 the raw emotion of her life intertwined with her father's 0:01:13.146 --> 0:01:15.916 experience as a German resistance fighter in World War II. 0:01:16.825 --> 0:01:19.695 Magda has such an honest approach to everything she does, 0:01:19.916 --> 0:01:22.945 be it the characters she creates or the way she writes, 0:01:23.066 --> 0:01:26.625 which is brilliantly. Today I speak to her about what 0:01:26.625 --> 0:01:28.545 it was like making a decision to tell the world 0:01:28.545 --> 0:01:31.305 she was, as she said, gay, gay, gay, gay, a 0:01:31.305 --> 0:01:34.146 little bit not gay, gay, gay, gay. Her very public 0:01:34.146 --> 0:01:36.545 time is the face of Jenny Craig and why she 0:01:36.545 --> 0:01:40.505 walked away from that very lucrative weight loss deal twice. 0:01:40.725 --> 0:01:42.945 After all, we're all reckoning with something. 0:01:43.765 --> 0:01:44.646 Girlfriend, you can 0:01:44.646 --> 0:01:49.636 write. Oh thank you. Oh my God, thank you. 0:01:51.045 --> 0:01:52.996 It was unput downable. 0:01:53.316 --> 0:01:57.085 Oh wow, you're giving me goosebumps. a little teary 0:01:57.085 --> 0:01:57.846 and just 0:01:57.846 --> 0:02:00.475 also I read it with a pencil and I was just, 0:02:00.725 --> 0:02:04.075 I kept circling and underlining just beautiful phrases. You've got 0:02:04.075 --> 0:02:05.835 a beautiful turn of phrase. 0:02:05.926 --> 0:02:07.606 Oh thank you, thanks. 0:02:07.725 --> 0:02:08.956 How did you do it? 0:02:09.466 --> 0:02:11.445 Um, I don't know. 0:02:12.044 --> 0:02:14.965 I don't know. I just, um, I, I didn't know 0:02:14.965 --> 0:02:16.845 if I could do it actually when I first started writing, 0:02:16.925 --> 0:02:19.006 I didn't know if I could write. Uh, so it's 0:02:19.006 --> 0:02:22.435 been a huge journey. I started just after my dad died, um, 0:02:22.805 --> 0:02:24.486 and then it took all sorts of twists and turns. 0:02:24.524 --> 0:02:26.125 At one point it was going to be a book 0:02:26.125 --> 0:02:28.165 about my weight loss, although that was complicated by the 0:02:28.165 --> 0:02:29.956 fact that, of course, I put it all back on again. 0:02:30.206 --> 0:02:33.285 So there went that idea. But I really, I, I 0:02:33.286 --> 0:02:35.645 just discovered through the writing of this book how much 0:02:35.645 --> 0:02:37.744 in love with language I am apart from all the 0:02:37.744 --> 0:02:39.095 other content stuff. 0:02:39.514 --> 0:02:41.986 And I suppose I've always played with language really with 0:02:41.986 --> 0:02:44.946 characters and I've loved writing the scripts that I've been 0:02:44.946 --> 0:02:45.494 involved with. 0:02:45.506 --> 0:02:47.236 You wrote the three dog woman series, 0:02:47.476 --> 0:02:52.544 yeah, and you know a lot of stuff, but to 0:02:52.544 --> 0:02:56.875 actually just have free reign to really it's a pretty 0:02:56.875 --> 0:02:59.905 serious book and I wanted the language to match the 0:02:59.905 --> 0:03:02.306 gravitas of the subject matter in a way, so. 0:03:02.756 --> 0:03:05.696 Yeah. Did it, was it a different muscle to the 0:03:05.696 --> 0:03:08.616 one that you're used to using for obviously writing comedy, 0:03:08.655 --> 0:03:13.696 but just you're a creative person, you act, you're multi-talented 0:03:13.696 --> 0:03:15.655 in that way, but did writing feel like a creative 0:03:15.655 --> 0:03:18.215 muscle cause it feels like a very 0:03:18.555 --> 0:03:19.544 Different voice. 0:03:20.036 --> 0:03:22.425 Well, it's the real me and in some ways it was, 0:03:23.675 --> 0:03:26.556 you know, writing sketch comedy is, I don't, you don't 0:03:26.555 --> 0:03:28.275 want to make it look like hard work, but it 0:03:28.274 --> 0:03:32.506 is incredibly freaking hard work because you're straining, well, for me, 0:03:32.635 --> 0:03:35.116 I was straining my brain away from the way it 0:03:35.116 --> 0:03:38.025 actually naturally works to put it into sketch comedy mode. 0:03:38.956 --> 0:03:42.896 It requires a certain adrenalized, um, you know, high octane 0:03:42.896 --> 0:03:43.755 energy comedy. 0:03:44.286 --> 0:03:48.486 Whereas, pardon me, whereas this book flowed out of me 0:03:48.486 --> 0:03:50.396 much more because it really is the way I speak 0:03:50.396 --> 0:03:52.525 and the way I think and my sense of humor, 0:03:52.566 --> 0:03:54.056 it's much more the real me. 0:03:54.244 --> 0:03:56.446 It reads like you just sat down and wrote it 0:03:56.446 --> 0:04:01.035 like in a week, which I always think is the most, 0:04:01.165 --> 0:04:03.045 I mean it's rarely that is that, but I always 0:04:03.045 --> 0:04:05.165 think that's it makes it very easy to read and 0:04:05.165 --> 0:04:05.915 very um. 0:04:06.786 --> 0:04:09.775 It doesn't read like it was agony, but you wrote 0:04:09.775 --> 0:04:10.855 it over 8 years, right? 0:04:10.946 --> 0:04:13.295 Yeah, and it it wasn't agony, you know, a lot 0:04:13.295 --> 0:04:15.575 of it really did flow, you know, I understand what 0:04:15.575 --> 0:04:17.895 they talk about the Holy Spirit, you know, there's something 0:04:17.896 --> 0:04:22.015 that kind of rights through you and there's some um. 0:04:22.435 --> 0:04:24.284 You know, in some ways I think the book's smarter 0:04:24.284 --> 0:04:27.164 than I am. It's weird you access some part of 0:04:27.164 --> 0:04:31.204 your own brain that's connected to the collective unconscious or something. 0:04:31.245 --> 0:04:34.005 There's some force that animates and flows through you. It's 0:04:34.005 --> 0:04:37.324 the same when you're doing comedy or anything creative, you 0:04:37.324 --> 0:04:39.924 have that sense of flow that they talk about and 0:04:40.484 --> 0:04:45.484 it's a strangely impersonal thing um and um you know, 0:04:45.884 --> 0:04:47.724 without getting too wanky about it. 0:04:49.996 --> 0:04:52.156 Let's get let's get. I'm capable of it, you know, 0:04:53.164 --> 0:04:56.315 I can go right to the wank place, um, but 0:04:56.315 --> 0:05:00.595 it really, uh, I loved writing. I absolutely, um, I 0:05:00.594 --> 0:05:02.236 said this at an event the other night and there 0:05:02.236 --> 0:05:05.594 was sort of an, oh, you know, it's the, this 0:05:05.594 --> 0:05:07.715 is my favorite thing that I've ever done. I have 0:05:07.716 --> 0:05:10.996 to say. It's the most satisfying and complete thing because 0:05:10.996 --> 0:05:15.026 it's humor, but, but it's also the serious, it's it's 0:05:15.026 --> 0:05:16.626 the whole me, you know, much more. 0:05:16.795 --> 0:05:17.915 It's also the only thing. 0:05:18.224 --> 0:05:20.755 Um, as a performer as you are, there are so 0:05:20.755 --> 0:05:23.265 many people involved in every aspect of what you do 0:05:23.265 --> 0:05:25.716 if you're doing a show, if you're doing whatever it 0:05:25.716 --> 0:05:27.794 happens to be, but this is just 0:05:27.795 --> 0:05:31.544 you. Yeah, yeah, I can't hide the scrum at all. 0:05:31.914 --> 0:05:33.996 But also you don't have the endless frustrations that you 0:05:33.996 --> 0:05:36.116 have when you're making film and TV about the budget, 0:05:36.206 --> 0:05:39.236 the location, the costumes, all those, you know, dealing with 0:05:39.236 --> 0:05:42.785 reality things, whereas with a book you can really, um, 0:05:42.795 --> 0:05:46.086 although I was constrained because this is a real story 0:05:46.086 --> 0:05:46.575 and I was 0:05:47.126 --> 0:05:49.626 I had to adhere to the truth of that, but 0:05:49.626 --> 0:05:51.986 you can kind of go wherever you want to go 0:05:51.986 --> 0:05:54.755 with that, and there's no budget, you know, if I 0:05:54.755 --> 0:05:58.455 wanted to go and write about Warsaw in 1943, I could, 0:05:58.586 --> 0:06:00.224 you know, and I didn't have to worry about whether 0:06:00.224 --> 0:06:00.504 the 0:06:00.755 --> 0:06:03.026 The film had the budget for that, you know, the 0:06:03.026 --> 0:06:05.626 book can do that. So that was incredibly liberating. Yeah, 0:06:06.065 --> 0:06:09.905 it's called Reckoning, and it's about you coming to terms 0:06:09.906 --> 0:06:12.676 with so many things, but it's a book fundamentally about identity, 0:06:12.746 --> 0:06:13.455 isn't it? Yeah, 0:06:13.755 --> 0:06:16.575 yeah, it is actually. It very much is, which mine 0:06:16.575 --> 0:06:18.866 and mine still isn't fully formed, I would say. 0:06:19.426 --> 0:06:22.544 I wanted to, it's gonna sound funny, but I wanted 0:06:22.545 --> 0:06:25.186 to say thank you on behalf of Jewish people because 0:06:25.186 --> 0:06:28.065 I am the official spokesperson of all Jewish people. No, 0:06:28.146 --> 0:06:30.665 but I am Jewish and I lost relatives in the 0:06:30.664 --> 0:06:31.844 Holocaust and and 0:06:32.315 --> 0:06:36.335 Your father was the most extraordinary hero, and he and 0:06:36.336 --> 0:06:40.595 his family in Poland risked their lives for a long 0:06:40.594 --> 0:06:44.145 time sheltering Jewish people and one little boy in particular 0:06:45.156 --> 0:06:48.056 because the price of doing that was their own death, 0:06:48.396 --> 0:06:51.544 if they'd been caught and as I describe in the book, 0:06:51.635 --> 0:06:54.876 my grandparents were 45 when the war started, and that's 0:06:54.876 --> 0:06:57.705 not young, you know, you know consequences. My father was 0:06:57.706 --> 0:06:59.376 15 and there's a certain 0:06:59.914 --> 0:07:03.915 Um, you're reckless youth, you don't understand mortality, all those 0:07:03.914 --> 0:07:06.876 kind of things. So I'm really in awe of my grandparents' courage, 0:07:07.034 --> 0:07:10.915 particularly somehow my grandmother really and my aunt, um, you know, 0:07:11.035 --> 0:07:12.876 because she had the little Jewish boy used to sleep 0:07:12.876 --> 0:07:14.996 in her bed, you know, I mean, I mean what 0:07:14.996 --> 0:07:17.906 would have happened to them if they'd been caught, um, 0:07:17.915 --> 0:07:20.876 just doesn't even bear thinking about and to well they 0:07:20.876 --> 0:07:23.556 would have been killed and they knew that they most 0:07:23.556 --> 0:07:25.635 likely would have been tortured because of the unit that 0:07:25.635 --> 0:07:27.186 my father and my uncle were in. 0:07:28.345 --> 0:07:31.505 Because my father and my uncle were in this unit 993W, 0:07:31.545 --> 0:07:35.225 which was a top secret counterintelligence unit, and basically they 0:07:35.225 --> 0:07:39.426 were executing Polish collaborators who were telling the Gestapo um 0:07:39.426 --> 0:07:41.855 secrets of the resistance, but also telling the Gestapo where 0:07:41.866 --> 0:07:43.265 where Jewish people were hiding. 0:07:43.915 --> 0:07:47.156 And the Polish, you know, official line on that, they 0:07:47.156 --> 0:07:49.716 took a very hard line on collaboration and 0:07:49.716 --> 0:07:49.915 it was 0:07:49.915 --> 0:07:54.075 an incredibly, I mean, not just brave but moral thing 0:07:54.075 --> 0:07:54.746 that they did, 0:07:55.415 --> 0:07:56.836 they were good people, good people 0:07:56.836 --> 0:07:57.825 didn't turn away. 0:07:57.996 --> 0:08:01.195 No, no, they didn't, and you know. 0:08:01.271 --> 0:08:03.501 I asked myself what would I have done in the 0:08:03.501 --> 0:08:06.540 same circumstance, and you just don't know, you know. But 0:08:06.540 --> 0:08:10.501 I asked my cousin who's also called Magda, Magda Magda, 0:08:10.660 --> 0:08:13.751 very glamorous Polish actress, funnily enough, um, but I, I 0:08:13.751 --> 0:08:16.061 wanted to understand it was almost like doing a taxonomy 0:08:16.061 --> 0:08:18.260 of courage, you know, in some ways to try and 0:08:18.260 --> 0:08:21.931 understand where did that courage come from, what informed it, 0:08:21.940 --> 0:08:25.091 and how did they maintain that over six long years? 0:08:25.621 --> 0:08:27.260 And I said to her one time, you know, where 0:08:27.260 --> 0:08:30.820 did our grandmother's courage come from? And she just said, breeding. 0:08:31.225 --> 0:08:33.855 You know, meaning basically that they were brought up to 0:08:33.855 --> 0:08:36.336 have those values and they were trained in that way 0:08:36.336 --> 0:08:38.855 so that essentially when the time came, because they were 0:08:38.855 --> 0:08:42.855 from that kind of stream of Polish, you know, Poland's 0:08:42.855 --> 0:08:45.415 a very complex country and its history with Jewish people 0:08:45.415 --> 0:08:48.376 is enormously complex as I'm sure you know, but they 0:08:48.376 --> 0:08:51.376 were from that stream that was very kind of multicultural. 0:08:51.415 --> 0:08:53.366 They had a lot of Jewish friends and to them, 0:08:53.535 --> 0:08:55.535 as my cousin said, these weren't. 0:08:55.650 --> 0:08:58.420 Jewish people they were Polish people. They saw no difference, 0:08:58.511 --> 0:09:02.871 you know, and that's, you know, those sort of that 0:09:02.871 --> 0:09:05.310 way of conducting yourself in the world is as relevant, 0:09:05.350 --> 0:09:07.751 if not more relevant now than ever really. 0:09:07.790 --> 0:09:11.191 It's interesting, you know, part of what you write about 0:09:11.191 --> 0:09:16.871 is the sense that traumatic life experiences can be inherited 0:09:16.871 --> 0:09:18.710 sort of through DNA in the same way as blue 0:09:18.710 --> 0:09:19.951 eyes or blonde hair. 0:09:20.196 --> 0:09:23.736 And there's a very strong understanding of that among Jewish people, 0:09:23.895 --> 0:09:27.256 this sense of survivor guilt and the effects of the 0:09:27.256 --> 0:09:30.766 Holocaust as it's come down into generations who never experienced it, 0:09:30.826 --> 0:09:33.335 but who are profoundly affected. 0:09:34.025 --> 0:09:36.895 And the same thing happened with you. You felt that's 0:09:36.895 --> 0:09:39.116 one of the things you experienced or you explored 0:09:39.116 --> 0:09:39.435 in the book. 0:09:39.545 --> 0:09:42.616 Well, I think, I think really there's a kind of 0:09:42.816 --> 0:09:47.045 I'm reminded of that amazing episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm 0:09:47.045 --> 0:09:49.576 with the little gay, he looks like a gay boy 0:09:49.576 --> 0:09:51.176 you know he's talking about the Holocaust. 0:09:51.256 --> 0:09:53.835 He says, get over it, Jews, you know, and there's 0:09:53.835 --> 0:09:57.075 that kind of an attitude sometimes that I, I suppose 0:09:57.076 --> 0:09:59.905 because of my proximity to it, I look at Jewish 0:09:59.905 --> 0:10:02.525 people and the suffering that they've gone through and, and 0:10:02.525 --> 0:10:04.845 think about the toll that that must take and often 0:10:04.845 --> 0:10:08.366 allowance isn't made for that, um, like how, how that would. 0:10:08.996 --> 0:10:14.436 Existentially affect you, you know, generations, generations and I met 0:10:14.436 --> 0:10:18.084 this young Polish Jewish woman actually at a function and 0:10:18.516 --> 0:10:21.355 she was saying her grandmother hated Polish people, you know, 0:10:21.475 --> 0:10:22.996 she'd had bad experiences. 0:10:23.636 --> 0:10:27.445 And she was really surprised and relieved to hear about 0:10:27.446 --> 0:10:30.725 my grandparents, and, and I thought it was really important 0:10:30.725 --> 0:10:33.605 and an important thing for the book too, for Jewish 0:10:33.605 --> 0:10:36.275 people to know that there were Polish people that cared 0:10:36.275 --> 0:10:39.486 and that risked their lives and for, for in order, 0:10:39.525 --> 0:10:41.965 and the reason for saying that is so that Jewish 0:10:41.965 --> 0:10:45.636 people don't feel so alone, you know, because I think 0:10:45.636 --> 0:10:47.686 that's a horrible feeling to feel like no one cared. 0:10:47.766 --> 0:10:49.845 It's like people did and it might not have always 0:10:49.845 --> 0:10:50.525 been evident. 0:10:50.876 --> 0:10:52.785 But there were people that did. I think that's a 0:10:52.785 --> 0:10:53.785 really important message to 0:10:53.785 --> 0:10:54.335 get across 0:10:54.335 --> 0:10:56.936 and the sense that it's not ancient history, 0:10:58.955 --> 0:11:01.676 it's within living memory and I do think it's passed 0:11:01.676 --> 0:11:03.785 on somehow genetically. I mean there's all those studies they're 0:11:03.785 --> 0:11:06.986 doing now, epigenetics they've done actually with Jewish second generation 0:11:06.986 --> 0:11:08.204 Holocaust survivors and 0:11:09.006 --> 0:11:11.736 And they've shown that the effects of trauma and stress 0:11:11.736 --> 0:11:14.415 are communicated and when you say that to people, everyone 0:11:14.415 --> 0:11:17.094 just goes, yeah, totally get it, you know, no one goes, no, no, 0:11:17.176 --> 0:11:19.655 I don't reckon, although I have other friends who are 0:11:19.655 --> 0:11:23.056 Jewish Holocaust survivors, second generation, and they don't want that 0:11:23.056 --> 0:11:24.695 to be true because they don't want to be burdened 0:11:24.696 --> 0:11:27.454 with that. They want to be able to live outside 0:11:27.455 --> 0:11:29.816 and beyond it, you know, but you know we're all 0:11:29.816 --> 0:11:30.655 reckoning with something, 0:11:32.696 --> 0:11:35.016 aren't we was an extraordinary man, an extraordinary man. 0:11:37.236 --> 0:11:39.165 I wanted to take you to a scene in the 0:11:39.165 --> 0:11:42.475 book that I really love, there's so many, but, um, one, 0:11:42.595 --> 0:11:45.696 when you're playing soccer on the beach with a group 0:11:45.696 --> 0:11:48.516 of friends on a camping trip. yeah, can you just 0:11:48.516 --> 0:11:50.205 talk about about that? I loved that 0:11:50.205 --> 0:11:50.395 scene. 0:11:50.686 --> 0:11:53.806 Oh yeah, I love that too. Um, I, this is 0:11:53.806 --> 0:11:55.925 after I'd lost all the weight when I did Jenny 0:11:55.926 --> 0:11:58.766 Craig and um, you know, there's one thing that I 0:11:58.766 --> 0:12:02.645 sort of grieve the loss of is physical mobility, and 0:12:02.645 --> 0:12:04.935 I don't run. It's just too hard when you're overweight, 0:12:05.006 --> 0:12:05.366 you know. 0:12:05.746 --> 0:12:10.275 But when you're not overweight, true, true, true, um, and, um, 0:12:10.566 --> 0:12:12.525 I went with a bunch of girlfriends. There's a huge 0:12:12.525 --> 0:12:14.905 sort of posse of us who go camping every now 0:12:14.905 --> 0:12:16.725 and then, and we went to Cape Levec and it 0:12:16.725 --> 0:12:19.084 was so beautiful. We were in the really rough campy 0:12:19.085 --> 0:12:21.016 part of it, you know, where it's like Gilligan's Island 0:12:21.016 --> 0:12:24.525 and there's this incredible stark beauty as I described it 0:12:24.525 --> 0:12:26.845 in the book, if they had, you know, beach resorts 0:12:26.845 --> 0:12:28.965 on the moon or Mars, that's what, that, that would 0:12:28.965 --> 0:12:29.766 be Cape Levec. 0:12:30.225 --> 0:12:33.545 Um, and, um, we were, we were all down on 0:12:33.545 --> 0:12:35.145 the rocks that sort of on the cliff, and the 0:12:35.145 --> 0:12:38.236 moon came out and it just illuminated the beach like 0:12:38.236 --> 0:12:42.996 this ghostly soccer arena, and we all spontaneously ran down 0:12:42.996 --> 0:12:45.986 onto the beach and started kicking a soccer ball around 0:12:45.986 --> 0:12:48.516 and I was, because I was the lightest I'd been 0:12:48.516 --> 0:12:51.506 for a very long time and I was sprinting around 0:12:51.506 --> 0:12:53.785 and elbowing people and getting the ball and 0:12:54.795 --> 0:12:57.756 Laughing so hard I wet myself and it was the 0:12:57.756 --> 0:13:00.236 most incredible feeling and but there was also, it was 0:13:00.236 --> 0:13:02.236 tinged with a slight sadness because I didn't know if 0:13:02.236 --> 0:13:04.915 it would last and then it didn't, you know, I 0:13:04.915 --> 0:13:06.516 put the weight back on, so I had this sort 0:13:06.516 --> 0:13:08.876 of glimpse of it, but, you know, to be honest, 0:13:08.915 --> 0:13:11.386 I haven't given up on the idea of um 0:13:12.116 --> 0:13:15.506 I mean, I'm in this perpetual bloody thing of, you know, 0:13:15.915 --> 0:13:18.195 should I just accept my weight as it is, or 0:13:18.196 --> 0:13:20.386 should I keep trying to lose weight, but 0:13:20.595 --> 0:13:22.256 You don't look overweight to me. 0:13:23.196 --> 0:13:23.345 Thanks, 0:13:24.066 --> 0:13:24.556 you actually 0:13:24.556 --> 0:13:25.545 don't. Oh well, 0:13:26.025 --> 0:13:27.975 you know, look, I am carrying 0:13:27.975 --> 0:13:30.425 you in person, but I don't 0:13:30.426 --> 0:13:36.335 like look, I'm naturally my natural instinct is to be 0:13:36.335 --> 0:13:38.946 a camping outdoorsy girl, and I'm carrying a little bit 0:13:38.946 --> 0:13:41.266 too much weight to do that. So so just to 0:13:41.266 --> 0:13:43.225 get to that sort of weight there is, you know, 0:13:43.306 --> 0:13:44.955 would be really comfortable, but that's 0:13:45.516 --> 0:13:48.386 You know, outside of all of the body image craziness 0:13:48.386 --> 0:13:50.266 of the, you know, I mean, we're so nuts about it, 0:13:50.366 --> 0:13:52.746 all of us, and, and I'm involved in that. It's 0:13:52.746 --> 0:13:54.935 hard to be a woman and be sane, I think 0:13:54.936 --> 0:13:57.626 about your body and what you put into it. 0:13:58.176 --> 0:14:01.746 The 3, the 3, you know, the book's called Reckoning 0:14:01.746 --> 0:14:05.305 and the 3 issues that you reckon with throughout the 0:14:05.306 --> 0:14:08.746 book that weave in and out are your father and 0:14:08.746 --> 0:14:13.266 his history, your sexuality, and your weight and they sort 0:14:13.266 --> 0:14:16.066 of provide this framework for a whole bunch of other stuff. 0:14:16.210 --> 0:14:20.871 Um, do you feel like they're intertwined, those three things, 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:23.040 or at least sexuality and your weight? Good 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:25.160 question. Yeah, I think they are. I think they are. Well, 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:27.480 my father sort of started on at me. His mother 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:30.611 was overweight and he was overweight when he was a kid, 0:14:30.881 --> 0:14:32.881 and then he was in the POW camp and lost 0:14:32.881 --> 0:14:36.790 the weight and was very handsome, um, and so Jenny Craig. 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:40.030 It was totally, but he managed to hang on to it. 0:14:40.131 --> 0:14:41.561 He had an iron will, my father. 0:14:41.835 --> 0:14:44.275 Um, and from the age of 11, he said to me, 0:14:44.306 --> 0:14:47.066 when I put on, like, clearly I was just pubescent, 0:14:47.105 --> 0:14:48.506 and I'd put on a tiny bit of weight and 0:14:48.506 --> 0:14:50.345 he said if you just lose half a stone, you'll 0:14:50.345 --> 0:14:52.145 be fine for the purposes of playing tennis because he 0:14:52.145 --> 0:14:52.655 was tennis 0:14:52.655 --> 0:14:53.056 mad. 0:14:53.256 --> 0:14:54.905 And his way of doing that is to just not 0:14:54.905 --> 0:14:55.215 eat willpower, 0:14:57.676 --> 0:15:00.025 starve yourself, which is how he managed it and somehow 0:15:00.025 --> 0:15:03.665 he did um but it just propelled me into this 0:15:03.665 --> 0:15:06.905 absolute craziness, you know, it messed with my metabolism. I mean, 0:15:07.025 --> 0:15:09.295 God bless him, he was trying to do the right thing. 0:15:09.936 --> 0:15:13.316 Um, he had all sorts of complex stuff going on about, 0:15:13.465 --> 0:15:13.756 you know, 0:15:14.045 --> 0:15:17.275 about, I mean someone who's been starved and been in 0:15:17.275 --> 0:15:21.316 a prison camp, you know, their issues around weight must 0:15:21.316 --> 0:15:22.986 be manifest, yeah, 0:15:23.236 --> 0:15:25.306 but also, you know, his mother was overweight and 0:15:25.355 --> 0:15:28.626 You know, there was things have started to change in 0:15:28.626 --> 0:15:31.736 the last maybe 10 years, but for a long time 0:15:32.105 --> 0:15:35.415 overweight people were the last most vilified group, you know, 0:15:35.525 --> 0:15:39.025 I think still, still, I think, yeah, yeah, absolutely there's 0:15:39.025 --> 0:15:41.486 a lot of shame attached to it. It's, you know, 0:15:41.826 --> 0:15:43.905 I seem to have picked all the ways of being 0:15:43.905 --> 0:15:45.696 in the world that have shame attached. 0:15:46.626 --> 0:15:49.236 Um, and, uh, slowly I'm just working my way through 0:15:49.236 --> 0:15:50.915 it and going, you know what, I, I, I ain't 0:15:50.915 --> 0:15:54.455 gonna be shamed no more. Um, so whether or not 0:15:54.455 --> 0:15:57.876 the weight is a metaphor, um, uh, I read, I 0:15:57.876 --> 0:16:00.876 read that fantastic book, Fat is a Feminist Issue years 0:16:00.876 --> 0:16:04.316 ago by Susie Orbach, um, and then the, the sort 0:16:04.316 --> 0:16:06.955 of opposite side of that was reading Susan Sontag when 0:16:06.955 --> 0:16:10.516 she wrote about, um, uh, AIDS as metaphor and illness 0:16:10.516 --> 0:16:13.506 as metaphor, and, and, and she disputed the idea of 0:16:13.795 --> 0:16:16.386 the body being a metaphor for what's going on emotionally. 0:16:16.866 --> 0:16:18.775 Um, and where did you land? 0:16:19.926 --> 0:16:23.975 I think it's halfway between, like everything, you know, it's 0:16:23.975 --> 0:16:27.126 the middle path. I think it is both a metaphor 0:16:27.126 --> 0:16:30.486 and an emotional expression, and it's also just purely, you know, 0:16:30.566 --> 0:16:33.556 in some regards just physiological and genetic. 0:16:34.045 --> 0:16:37.556 You talked about, you described it as a flesh armor 0:16:37.556 --> 0:16:40.205 that you created around yourself at a time when you 0:16:40.205 --> 0:16:43.285 were struggling with your sexuality, which is kind of for 0:16:43.285 --> 0:16:45.566 decades really, um. 0:16:45.845 --> 0:16:48.436 I wanted to ask you about, so, so the decision 0:16:48.436 --> 0:16:50.556 to do Jenny Craig, talk me through that because you 0:16:50.556 --> 0:16:51.955 write about that in the book. You don't write about 0:16:51.955 --> 0:16:54.076 it much, so it's not a huge part of the book, 0:16:54.085 --> 0:16:56.915 but the actual decision to do Jenny Craig must have 0:16:56.915 --> 0:16:59.035 been a huge one because by doing that you take 0:16:59.035 --> 0:17:02.636 your weight and you make it currency, for better or worse. Yeah. 0:17:03.616 --> 0:17:05.235 Did you realize what a big decision that was going 0:17:05.236 --> 0:17:05.355 to 0:17:05.355 --> 0:17:05.876 be? 0:17:06.076 --> 0:17:06.965 Probably not fully. 0:17:07.996 --> 0:17:08.355 How could you? 0:17:08.395 --> 0:17:11.475 I know it's the same with this book. What have 0:17:11.475 --> 0:17:18.075 I done in some regards, um, but, um, I had 0:17:18.075 --> 0:17:21.876 gotten to a point physically and health wise where I 0:17:21.876 --> 0:17:24.406 had to do something. I had shocking sleep apnea. 0:17:24.824 --> 0:17:27.694 My friends were worried. My friends were worried, and another 0:17:27.694 --> 0:17:30.855 friend who was doing the advertising for Jenny Craig approached 0:17:30.855 --> 0:17:32.694 me and said, look, they'd be interested. Would you be interested? 0:17:32.735 --> 0:17:35.054 And I said no. And then a year later I 0:17:35.054 --> 0:17:36.934 thought maybe it's a good way to do it. There's 0:17:36.934 --> 0:17:39.645 a financial incentive, there's a sort of a contract, you, 0:17:39.895 --> 0:17:44.064 you've got a structure around you publicly accountable in a 0:17:44.064 --> 0:17:47.054 way accountable, but you've also got public support and I 0:17:47.054 --> 0:17:49.694 knew that because of being a public person. 0:17:50.546 --> 0:17:53.435 The public is so and the media are so obsessed 0:17:53.435 --> 0:17:56.065 with weight loss and weight gain. I knew no matter 0:17:56.065 --> 0:17:57.575 what way I did it, it would be a public 0:17:57.575 --> 0:17:59.126 issue anyway, so I kind of thought, why not just 0:17:59.126 --> 0:18:03.315 tackle it head on. um and um so really that 0:18:03.315 --> 0:18:07.906 was how the, how the whole thing went and, and, um, um, 0:18:08.236 --> 0:18:10.715 I sort of wanted to in some ways say some, 0:18:10.835 --> 0:18:12.815 I thought it was also a platform to say some 0:18:12.815 --> 0:18:15.996 things about body image and the shaming of overweight people 0:18:15.996 --> 0:18:16.305 and 0:18:16.516 --> 0:18:18.296 The fact that I was very clear about the fact 0:18:18.296 --> 0:18:20.736 that I had no intention of getting skinny, but I 0:18:20.736 --> 0:18:22.016 needed to lose some weight. 0:18:22.496 --> 0:18:25.575 Um, but sometimes you know it's very hard to get 0:18:25.575 --> 0:18:26.546 a complex message 0:18:26.546 --> 0:18:26.815 through. 0:18:26.896 --> 0:18:29.616 But you were also honest in terms of, you know, 0:18:29.695 --> 0:18:32.016 you did interviews with the Women's Weekly and you talked 0:18:32.016 --> 0:18:35.616 about how there was also therapy was required and how 0:18:35.616 --> 0:18:38.116 it wasn't just, I'm just gonna eat a few meals 0:18:38.116 --> 0:18:40.215 and magically the weight will fall off like you were 0:18:40.215 --> 0:18:42.296 very open and honest about 0:18:42.296 --> 0:18:42.565 it. 0:18:42.776 --> 0:18:46.536 Yeah, yeah, I was and um thanks for picking up 0:18:46.536 --> 0:18:49.136 on that because I was really conscientious about that. 0:18:49.626 --> 0:18:52.175 And certainly, you know, I've done a ton of therapy 0:18:52.175 --> 0:18:54.366 in my life, you know, I think everyone should do 0:18:54.366 --> 0:18:56.605 it isn't the 0:18:56.605 --> 0:18:57.355 best thing 0:18:57.355 --> 0:18:59.516 I don't know how anyone can get through life without 0:18:59.516 --> 0:18:59.896 doing it. 0:19:00.845 --> 0:19:04.085 Well, you see people and they don't struggle. I don't 0:19:04.085 --> 0:19:06.565 see why you wouldn't avail yourself of the skills and 0:19:06.565 --> 0:19:08.845 the tools if there's a smarter way to do something. 0:19:09.026 --> 0:19:09.325 You don't do your own 0:19:09.325 --> 0:19:10.116 dental work. 0:19:11.538 --> 0:19:13.658 I don't fix my own car. Maybe some people can, 0:19:13.808 --> 0:19:15.398 but no, I see it in the same way. 0:19:15.928 --> 0:19:18.768 To me too, me too, but yeah, I very much 0:19:18.768 --> 0:19:21.128 wanted to get across. I think there is, there are 0:19:21.128 --> 0:19:25.398 really complex emotional psychological things that go on with weight. 0:19:26.248 --> 0:19:30.388 The whole thing, I actually think no one really understands it, 0:19:30.689 --> 0:19:32.518 you know, it still eludes them. 0:19:33.501 --> 0:19:37.091 Unscramble the egg between society's expectations and our history and 0:19:37.091 --> 0:19:39.812 our parents and the messages we receive and the messages 0:19:39.812 --> 0:19:42.572 we internalize, it is hard to unscramble all that. But 0:19:42.572 --> 0:19:45.012 you did lose all this weight and you talk about 0:19:45.012 --> 0:19:46.572 how at the age of 50 when most women are 0:19:46.572 --> 0:19:50.811 becoming invisible, you were swimming upstream because suddenly you're in 0:19:50.812 --> 0:19:52.731 a black tight black dress, you're on the cover of 0:19:52.731 --> 0:19:55.351 Women's Weekly, men and women were flirting with you. 0:19:56.786 --> 0:19:59.085 What was that like? Was that the first time you'd 0:19:59.085 --> 0:20:02.565 experienced being valued for how you look in a positive 0:20:02.565 --> 0:20:02.855 way? 0:20:02.925 --> 0:20:06.006 Yeah, yeah, because I put weight on um in my 0:20:06.006 --> 0:20:10.725 early teens and I sort of, you know, I sort 0:20:10.725 --> 0:20:12.366 of felt that I could hide. 0:20:12.536 --> 0:20:15.006 In that in a sense, um, but this was the 0:20:15.006 --> 0:20:17.435 first time, you know, I'd always been the funny one, 0:20:17.766 --> 0:20:19.046 but suddenly I was like the hot one and I, 0:20:19.595 --> 0:20:22.646 I was amazed that people I know I was sort 0:20:22.646 --> 0:20:25.276 of really taken aback, but people kept kept kind of 0:20:25.406 --> 0:20:27.725 saying that and I was like, well, I suppose so, right, 0:20:27.805 --> 0:20:28.486 then I'll go with that. 0:20:28.955 --> 0:20:31.715 And it was, it was a really extraordinary experience and 0:20:31.715 --> 0:20:35.355 it quite unnerved me in some ways and there's this 0:20:35.355 --> 0:20:37.675 whole sort of myth that you lose weight and then 0:20:37.675 --> 0:20:41.116 all your problems, you know, and everyone knows it's not 0:20:41.116 --> 0:20:44.305 like that, you know what I think it's like that. 0:20:44.315 --> 0:20:45.955 I know they do and they want to keep thinking 0:20:45.955 --> 0:20:47.195 it's like that 0:20:47.195 --> 0:20:50.006 you think that it would be like that in some way, 0:20:50.085 --> 0:20:54.396 probably a little bit. You just get won over by 0:20:54.396 --> 0:20:55.276 that stuff, don't you? 0:20:55.756 --> 0:20:58.465 Um, and you know, certainly a lot of, you know, 0:20:58.666 --> 0:21:01.266 pains and aches and things like that were solved by 0:21:01.266 --> 0:21:05.006 losing weight and health issues, certainly. Um, but you know, 0:21:05.185 --> 0:21:07.386 you've got then a whole lot of other set of 0:21:07.386 --> 0:21:09.225 issues to address and as I describe in the book, 0:21:09.345 --> 0:21:12.105 suddenly I became really self-conscious about the way I looked 0:21:12.105 --> 0:21:15.626 and I felt like a bauble, you know, and I 0:21:15.626 --> 0:21:19.085 get now how, um, I'd always felt that side of that. 0:21:19.105 --> 0:21:21.565 I was always a sort of nerdy one, you know, 0:21:21.825 --> 0:21:25.026 and I didn't ever use that as currency and suddenly 0:21:25.026 --> 0:21:25.445 I 0:21:25.641 --> 0:21:29.080 Got how other women felt for the first time, I think, really. 0:21:29.401 --> 0:21:32.921 And because the the double side of that is that 0:21:33.411 --> 0:21:35.440 you get it, but then you know you can lose 0:21:35.440 --> 0:21:37.161 it because we're all going to lose it, whether it's 0:21:37.161 --> 0:21:40.690 weight or getting older or going gray, whatever it happens 0:21:40.690 --> 0:21:45.440 to be, you can't stay hot forever, although society tells 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:46.521 us we should try. 0:21:48.935 --> 0:21:49.366 Yeah, 0:21:50.116 --> 0:21:50.736 but you 0:21:50.736 --> 0:21:53.286 said something really interesting because you said the sexiness of 0:21:53.286 --> 0:21:57.406 fat is like a dirty little secret. And so it's 0:21:57.406 --> 0:22:00.715 not like you hadn't experienced people being attracted to you 0:22:00.715 --> 0:22:04.026 and experience what it was like to feel sexually desirable, 0:22:04.725 --> 0:22:08.246 but this was, it was it was like what did 0:22:08.246 --> 0:22:08.685 you mean by 0:22:08.685 --> 0:22:09.065 that? 0:22:09.366 --> 0:22:11.725 Well, that really a lot of people won't admit to 0:22:11.725 --> 0:22:12.965 feeling attracted to fat women. 0:22:13.496 --> 0:22:17.685 You know, especially men, there's a, you know, that whole weird. 0:22:19.445 --> 0:22:21.815 There's the feeder thing and then there's those college frat 0:22:21.815 --> 0:22:23.825 boys that sort of, you know, do all the things 0:22:23.825 --> 0:22:26.455 about fat girls won't screw a fat girl, that kind 0:22:26.455 --> 0:22:30.815 of thing. No, there's whole fat shaming things that go 0:22:30.815 --> 0:22:31.935 on about that, but 0:22:32.195 --> 0:22:35.866 Um, you know, this is one thing that the internet 0:22:35.866 --> 0:22:37.986 has done for us and porn is it reveals that 0:22:37.986 --> 0:22:41.975 people have all sorts of sexual that are not we 0:22:41.975 --> 0:22:44.215 constantly have shoved down our throat that there's one type 0:22:44.215 --> 0:22:48.016 of desirable body, Miranda Miranda Kerr, and it turns out 0:22:48.016 --> 0:22:51.455 that actually people are attracted to all sorts of things. Well, 0:22:52.705 --> 0:22:54.546 we didn't for a long time, I don't think you 0:22:54.546 --> 0:22:54.555 know 0:22:56.866 --> 0:22:59.166 how did that change? Like, were people just more open 0:22:59.166 --> 0:22:59.585 about it? 0:23:00.435 --> 0:23:01.296 Well, um, 0:23:01.366 --> 0:23:02.315 when you lost the weight, 0:23:02.565 --> 0:23:04.475 yeah, and I mean I was still, I was still 0:23:04.475 --> 0:23:07.925 what would be classified as overweight, but I think maybe 0:23:07.925 --> 0:23:11.636 because I was just packaged in a different way or something, um, uh, 0:23:11.646 --> 0:23:16.406 thanks to the stylists, um, yeah, people were really engaging 0:23:16.406 --> 0:23:18.286 with me in that way and I was like, wow, 0:23:18.445 --> 0:23:18.955 this is 0:23:19.866 --> 0:23:22.205 a weird thing to sort of participate in your own 0:23:22.205 --> 0:23:25.166 objectification and have it as something you haven't sort of, 0:23:25.286 --> 0:23:26.486 that's something quite sudden. 0:23:26.866 --> 0:23:28.935 Yeah, it was, it was very weird. Suddenly I was 0:23:28.935 --> 0:23:31.376 the object of the gaze, you know, and I really 0:23:31.376 --> 0:23:35.416 felt that somehow I'd existed outside of that. I had, yeah, 0:23:35.776 --> 0:23:38.876 I really had, and suddenly I went, oh my God 0:23:38.876 --> 0:23:41.335 and you'd been for other things, how you were, what 0:23:41.335 --> 0:23:43.215 you could say, what you could do, your talent, and 0:23:43.215 --> 0:23:45.725 then suddenly it's like, oh she's hot bauble 0:23:45.725 --> 0:23:45.736 yeah 0:23:45.736 --> 0:23:49.246 bauble. So it's like the plus and minus of that. 0:23:49.355 --> 0:23:53.455 And then of course then people started stalking you and 0:23:53.455 --> 0:23:54.616 paparazzi and 0:23:54.906 --> 0:23:57.416 Let's get Magda eating and let's get Mag in a swimsuit. 0:23:57.705 --> 0:23:59.565 That must have been horrendous. 0:24:00.065 --> 0:24:03.215 It goes through a cycle. What happens is initially it's 0:24:03.215 --> 0:24:07.935 absolutely horrific and you feel like hunted prey, you know, 0:24:08.305 --> 0:24:10.386 because the way they follow you is like you're an 0:24:10.386 --> 0:24:14.146 animal of prey. It's, it's really awful. It's like having 0:24:14.146 --> 0:24:18.425 wolves coming after you, um, and, and it's, I think 0:24:18.425 --> 0:24:20.546 the lizard part of your brain just responds to it 0:24:20.546 --> 0:24:21.866 like that, you know, um. 0:24:22.146 --> 0:24:25.455 But then after a while, after they've done the worst 0:24:25.455 --> 0:24:27.736 they can do and shown you shoving food into your 0:24:27.736 --> 0:24:31.536 face and you know, the most unattractive and all of that, 0:24:31.616 --> 0:24:33.095 you know, you and your bathers at the beach and 0:24:33.095 --> 0:24:34.046 all that sort of stuff. 0:24:34.646 --> 0:24:37.386 In another way, and I'm not saying that the paparazzi 0:24:37.386 --> 0:24:40.506 are providing a public service, but in another way you 0:24:40.506 --> 0:24:43.266 come through the other end of it sort of liberated 0:24:43.266 --> 0:24:45.335 because you just go, well, what are you going to do, 0:24:45.455 --> 0:24:51.046 you know, yeah, I, you know, yes, I go down 0:24:51.046 --> 0:24:52.906 the street looking wind blown with no makeup on and 0:24:52.906 --> 0:24:53.825 my track pants on. 0:24:54.236 --> 0:24:59.616 Um, there was a real gotcha about it though, wasn't it? 0:24:59.626 --> 0:25:00.075 It was not 0:25:00.075 --> 0:25:00.236 done 0:25:00.236 --> 0:25:04.746 in a, you know, glory in my sort of, you know, 0:25:05.435 --> 0:25:07.355 they didn't go too far because there is a certain 0:25:07.355 --> 0:25:09.636 affection that the Australian public have for me and so 0:25:09.636 --> 0:25:09.996 they were a 0:25:09.996 --> 0:25:10.705 bit careful. 0:25:10.796 --> 0:25:13.435 You've always been number one on Q scores. I remember 0:25:13.435 --> 0:25:14.195 for many, many, many. 0:25:14.330 --> 0:25:17.361 Years like just the top of the tree with scores. 0:25:17.440 --> 0:25:20.230 So yeah, there has been a huge affection, so they knew, 0:25:20.281 --> 0:25:23.720 but then they they use weasel words like enjoying her 0:25:23.720 --> 0:25:27.391 curves and those kind of things where it's so passive aggressive. 0:25:27.511 --> 0:25:30.720 I know. Well, it's schizophrenic, you know, enjoying her new 0:25:30.720 --> 0:25:32.800 beach body when they when they try and get the 0:25:32.800 --> 0:25:34.631 worst possible shot of you, you know. 0:25:34.960 --> 0:25:35.300 You knew 0:25:35.300 --> 0:25:37.080 though when you signed on to Jennet, did you know, 0:25:37.161 --> 0:25:39.950 listen to me putting words into your mouth, that how 0:25:39.950 --> 0:25:41.761 do you then turn that off? It's like once you 0:25:41.761 --> 0:25:43.210 put that ball into play. 0:25:44.016 --> 0:25:46.786 How do you then go, OK guys, I'm resigning for 0:25:46.786 --> 0:25:49.055 from talking about weight in every interview and da da da. 0:25:49.335 --> 0:25:51.575 Now I've done Jenny Craig, I've done 2 years, whatever. 0:25:51.695 --> 0:25:54.695 Now how do I, you know, drawing a line under it. 0:25:54.736 --> 0:25:56.975 I don't think you can ever put the toothpaste back 0:25:56.975 --> 0:25:59.896 in the tube, and I don't think I quite, I 0:25:59.896 --> 0:26:01.455 didn't know it was going to go off the way 0:26:01.455 --> 0:26:03.695 it did. I didn't know it would be as huge 0:26:03.695 --> 0:26:07.215 as it was, um, you know, that said, I went 0:26:07.215 --> 0:26:10.565 into it with open eyes and and maybe some naivety thinking. 0:26:10.736 --> 0:26:13.175 I think I thought I could maybe control. 0:26:13.386 --> 0:26:17.925 Um, the, the debate a bit more and try and 0:26:17.925 --> 0:26:20.725 bring some common sense into it and then you just 0:26:20.725 --> 0:26:24.195 realize it's a mad beast there's nothing you can do. 0:26:24.366 --> 0:26:25.516 There's nothing you can do. 0:26:25.766 --> 0:26:29.965 Do you think the fact that you came out in 0:26:29.965 --> 0:26:33.236 2012 when you lost the weight, do you think that 0:26:33.246 --> 0:26:33.256 that 0:26:33.256 --> 0:26:33.776 was 0:26:35.026 --> 0:26:36.705 Well then I started to put the weight on again 0:26:36.705 --> 0:26:36.825 I 0:26:36.825 --> 0:26:38.906 think didn't you say after you came out you put 0:26:38.906 --> 0:26:39.945 the weight back 0:26:39.945 --> 0:26:44.416 I think I felt intensely vulnerable and certainly, you know, 0:26:44.425 --> 0:26:47.345 that idea of fat is metaphor, you know, it is 0:26:47.345 --> 0:26:49.455 sort of a bit like a shield, a bit like armor. 0:26:50.315 --> 0:26:52.935 And um you know, whether it was just that or 0:26:52.935 --> 0:26:55.626 whether it was just that's what happens, you know, very 0:26:55.626 --> 0:26:58.296 few people like the the statistics for people who lose 0:26:58.296 --> 0:27:01.126 weight and keep it off are diabolical. It's like about 3% 0:27:01.126 --> 0:27:04.215 I've since discovered. So it's, you know, the chances of 0:27:04.215 --> 0:27:06.406 keeping it off, it's very hard, um. 0:27:07.166 --> 0:27:11.345 But I think um um really, you know, that whole 0:27:11.345 --> 0:27:14.746 thing of coming out was a really interesting um. 0:27:15.896 --> 0:27:18.815 What happened initially after it, there's a whole other myth 0:27:18.815 --> 0:27:21.376 too about like losing weight like everything's going to be 0:27:21.376 --> 0:27:22.136 perfect 0:27:22.136 --> 0:27:25.105 so interesting to read. I thought, oh, you've come out now. 0:27:25.175 --> 0:27:26.916 It's like you'll run down the street I was shit 0:27:26.916 --> 0:27:26.975 scared because 0:27:32.105 --> 0:27:34.896 you know, and this is where that sort of Polish 0:27:34.896 --> 0:27:38.475 European legacy adheres because 0:27:39.736 --> 0:27:42.616 I grew up with this intimate knowledge of that the 0:27:42.616 --> 0:27:45.575 world can take a very dark turn and there's always, 0:27:45.656 --> 0:27:48.536 it's just in me to have that slight mistrust of 0:27:48.536 --> 0:27:50.616 the mob, you know, and the way things go, which 0:27:50.616 --> 0:27:53.616 is weird because I've made in some ways I've gone 0:27:53.616 --> 0:27:56.616 straight into that fear but my whole career is about 0:27:56.616 --> 0:27:59.815 dealing with masses of people. But at the same time 0:27:59.815 --> 0:28:01.825 I have this thing of, you know, looking at, you know, 0:28:02.055 --> 0:28:04.376 seeing those pictures of the Holocaust with my father sitting 0:28:04.376 --> 0:28:06.656 in the lounge room and going this is how horribly 0:28:06.656 --> 0:28:07.455 wrong it can go. 0:28:07.756 --> 0:28:10.325 And that's always been part of my operating system. That's 0:28:10.325 --> 0:28:14.766 how I'm hardwired. um, and so, you know, much as 0:28:14.766 --> 0:28:17.925 I could reason with it, there was that primitive part 0:28:17.925 --> 0:28:20.166 of me that when I came out was terrified that 0:28:20.166 --> 0:28:22.526 it would backfire somehow horribly and it must have looked 0:28:22.526 --> 0:28:26.366 to people, um, you know, watching on the sidelines like 0:28:26.366 --> 0:28:29.205 it was 2012, you know, lots of people would try 0:28:29.205 --> 0:28:32.046 and say everyone knew, everyone didn't know, a sliver of 0:28:32.046 --> 0:28:34.406 people who live on the, you know, the east coast 0:28:34.406 --> 0:28:36.205 and in the arty farty world knew. 0:28:36.555 --> 0:28:39.286 But the broader population really didn't have a clue that 0:28:39.286 --> 0:28:41.886 I was gay, so it was a big thing to 0:28:41.886 --> 0:28:45.805 still um and um the other thing is. 0:28:46.256 --> 0:28:48.845 You know, I can't really name very many other A-list 0:28:48.845 --> 0:28:51.925 female celebrities who are out. So I was a bit 0:28:51.925 --> 0:28:54.486 out there on my own and it's, it's still not happening. 0:28:54.565 --> 0:28:57.246 I mean, where are they, you know, um, so this 0:28:57.246 --> 0:28:59.845 idea that people sort of want to rewrite history in 0:28:59.845 --> 0:29:01.565 some ways and go, oh, it wasn't such a big 0:29:01.565 --> 0:29:03.565 deal and everyone knew anyway and blah blah bla. It's 0:29:03.565 --> 0:29:06.496 like no, that's not really true, you know, and I 0:29:06.496 --> 0:29:08.685 was blazing a path in some ways in that. 0:29:09.175 --> 0:29:11.425 There was all this speculation about how it would affect 0:29:11.425 --> 0:29:13.935 brand Magda, whether I'd still get endorsements or 0:29:13.935 --> 0:29:14.175 not. 0:29:14.496 --> 0:29:17.935 You talked about long conversations with your agents before like 0:29:17.935 --> 0:29:19.536 I spoke to my parents, I spoke and I spoke 0:29:19.536 --> 0:29:22.156 to my agents, and I thought, yeah, Magda, what 0:29:22.156 --> 0:29:23.366 was that's 0:29:23.366 --> 0:29:25.016 how do you talk about that like how do 0:29:25.016 --> 0:29:25.975 you 0:29:25.975 --> 0:29:26.136 I 0:29:26.136 --> 0:29:27.366 just how did that factor in. 0:29:27.986 --> 0:29:33.416 Well, I just had to, um, really, um, acknowledge that 0:29:33.416 --> 0:29:39.565 it could affect my livelihood. I might not get endorsements. um, uh, and, um, 0:29:40.335 --> 0:29:42.376 I just had to do it anyway because it was time, 0:29:42.416 --> 0:29:44.935 it was the right time for me. And I'm very 0:29:44.935 --> 0:29:48.016 big on that, that, um, I don't, I don't, I 0:29:48.016 --> 0:29:50.855 don't think that, I don't think anything is all good 0:29:50.855 --> 0:29:53.396 or bad. Things are complex and 0:29:53.705 --> 0:29:55.916 Um, coming out, you know, this idea that you come 0:29:55.916 --> 0:29:58.876 out and it's all great, it isn't that way for everyone. 0:29:58.996 --> 0:30:02.626 It's complex. It depends on your circumstances. It's not always safe. 0:30:02.835 --> 0:30:04.916 It depends on your own history, where you live, all 0:30:04.916 --> 0:30:07.075 that sort of thing. And you have to, you can't 0:30:07.075 --> 0:30:09.555 just go, yay, come out and it'll be great. As 0:30:09.555 --> 0:30:11.916 it turns out for me, it was one of the 0:30:11.916 --> 0:30:14.835 most empowering and healing things I've done, and in some 0:30:14.835 --> 0:30:17.595 ways it healed that old Eastern European wound. 0:30:18.055 --> 0:30:21.916 Because nothing terrible did happen and that part of me, 0:30:22.175 --> 0:30:24.536 I bet you get that part, don't you, that you 0:30:24.536 --> 0:30:25.935 know that 0:30:25.935 --> 0:30:27.736 we've been waiting for the other shoe to dry up 0:30:27.736 --> 0:30:27.896 your whole life totally and it 0:30:27.896 --> 0:30:33.215 didn't, you know, and that in itself was an incredibly 0:30:33.215 --> 0:30:34.256 healing thing for me. 0:30:37.266 --> 0:30:42.085 It's very hard, you talk about you're the last of 0:30:42.085 --> 0:30:46.296 the generation that are walking wounded in terms of um 0:30:46.906 --> 0:30:51.616 people who grew up realizing they were gay before probably 0:30:51.666 --> 0:30:55.906 the 90s. So it was legal. It's exactly, it's really 0:30:55.906 --> 0:30:58.896 hard when you're talking to Jen I imagine to explain, 0:30:59.065 --> 0:31:01.626 oh yeah, everyone's out and Miley Cyrus, you know, and 0:31:01.626 --> 0:31:04.266 gender fluidity and Caitlyn Jenner on the cover of Vanity Fair. 0:31:04.715 --> 0:31:06.935 What do you mean you were worried about it like 0:31:08.055 --> 0:31:11.616 how just talk like I loved what you talk about 0:31:11.616 --> 0:31:12.605 your um 0:31:13.516 --> 0:31:16.555 Coming to terms with your sexuality and when you were 0:31:16.555 --> 0:31:20.116 a kid and a teenager and an adolescent and and 0:31:20.116 --> 0:31:24.435 how you know, first you noticed you had special feelings 0:31:24.435 --> 0:31:28.305 for Marsha Brady and then you watched old movies and, 0:31:28.315 --> 0:31:30.996 and with, you know, you didn't identify with Vivien Leigh 0:31:30.996 --> 0:31:33.866 and Grace Kelly, you, you identified with the male leads 0:31:33.866 --> 0:31:36.026 and that you wanted to sweep them off their feet. 0:31:36.276 --> 0:31:37.876 I loved that idea of coming to terms with your 0:31:37.876 --> 0:31:41.195 sexuality through popular culture because there were no 0:31:42.075 --> 0:31:43.636 Role models in the media. No, 0:31:43.756 --> 0:31:46.715 I'd never seen another lesbian, so there was no one 0:31:46.715 --> 0:31:49.516 who I could, um, how was I even supposed to 0:31:49.516 --> 0:31:52.105 know what these feelings were or understand them? I'd kind 0:31:52.105 --> 0:31:56.916 of heard the word didn't and started to much though 0:31:56.916 --> 0:31:59.825 not much and started to realize with mounting horror that 0:31:59.835 --> 0:32:03.256 that was what I was. So all I had was 0:32:03.256 --> 0:32:05.475 these feelings towards other women. 0:32:06.386 --> 0:32:09.185 But I had never seen a lesbian, you know, as 0:32:09.185 --> 0:32:11.585 far as I knew, I was the only one, you know, 0:32:11.626 --> 0:32:14.425 it was terrifying and that sort of isolation. 0:32:14.815 --> 0:32:18.205 Uh, it's, it's interesting as people are reading the book, 0:32:18.486 --> 0:32:20.845 so many people of my generation come up to me 0:32:20.845 --> 0:32:23.805 and go, oh my God, I went through that. There 0:32:23.805 --> 0:32:26.406 are some women of my generation who still don't feel 0:32:26.406 --> 0:32:30.205 comfortable with the word lesbian, you know, it's really a 0:32:30.205 --> 0:32:32.156 lot of damage was done to us and as I say, 0:32:32.246 --> 0:32:34.116 you know, you don't go from the discourse of shame 0:32:34.116 --> 0:32:36.286 to the discourse of pride with nothing but a parade 0:32:36.286 --> 0:32:39.205 to get you through. That damage is done and then 0:32:39.205 --> 0:32:41.445 psychological work needs to be done to do the healing. 0:32:42.205 --> 0:32:45.325 I love the scene in your book where you come 0:32:45.325 --> 0:32:47.366 out to your parents, God, it's funny. I laughed and 0:32:47.366 --> 0:32:50.236 I cried in the space of two pages. It was 0:32:50.925 --> 0:32:52.955 so funny. Um, they're 0:32:52.955 --> 0:32:53.286 gorgeous, 0:32:54.965 --> 0:32:56.766 they're adorable and like your mom, you say that she's 0:32:56.766 --> 0:32:59.366 the funny one in the family, you just, oh, I 0:32:59.366 --> 0:33:01.526 just can hear her voice even though I've never actually 0:33:01.526 --> 0:33:02.565 heard it just from your writing. 0:33:03.055 --> 0:33:05.016 Um, and you sort of you thought you were going 0:33:05.016 --> 0:33:06.666 to be outed by a magazine by an interview that 0:33:06.666 --> 0:33:10.646 you've done, um, when someone had alluded to rumors and 0:33:10.725 --> 0:33:14.095 I thought it showed such, um, incredible conviction that you 0:33:14.095 --> 0:33:16.526 just got up and walked out of that interview, um, 0:33:16.616 --> 0:33:18.616 none of that, oh please like me and da da da. 0:33:18.695 --> 0:33:20.455 I was just like, you know, here's my boundary. 0:33:20.560 --> 0:33:21.661 And I'm walking out. 0:33:22.031 --> 0:33:24.661 I was surprised I found that actually. I didn't think 0:33:24.661 --> 0:33:27.401 that would be how I would react, and I just did. 0:33:28.070 --> 0:33:31.791 I always knew because you know, early on and I 0:33:31.791 --> 0:33:33.560 described this in the book, I was when I was 0:33:33.560 --> 0:33:35.950 at uni, I was a little radical lesbian feminist. I 0:33:35.950 --> 0:33:38.070 found my gang. I was working in a women's refuge. 0:33:38.526 --> 0:33:40.835 You ticked every cliche. I really 0:33:40.835 --> 0:33:40.845 did. 0:33:41.205 --> 0:33:46.646 I know, I know. I was so happy. I was 0:33:46.646 --> 0:33:50.546 like that, yeah, I was that cliche. Every lesbian goes through, 0:33:50.886 --> 0:33:53.085 nearly every lesbian goes through some point when they shave 0:33:53.085 --> 0:33:55.046 their head. We all, it's just a rite of passage. 0:33:55.085 --> 0:33:58.185 You kind of have to do it, um, and, um, 0:33:58.286 --> 0:34:01.046 but then I did find that too constraining and I 0:34:01.046 --> 0:34:03.986 didn't want to be marginalized and ghettoized, and I knew, 0:34:04.286 --> 0:34:06.195 I started to realize I wanted to be a performer. 0:34:06.546 --> 0:34:08.314 And I knew that I wanted to work on a 0:34:08.315 --> 0:34:10.626 large stage, you know, I wasn't one of those people 0:34:10.626 --> 0:34:12.815 that wanted to play to 200 lesbians in a tent somewhere, 0:34:13.036 --> 0:34:15.475 and I've got plenty of friends who do that, and 0:34:15.475 --> 0:34:18.596 they do amazing work, but they feel that frustration that 0:34:18.596 --> 0:34:20.596 they can't break through into the mainstream. 0:34:21.674 --> 0:34:23.756 So I can't remember we were going with the question 0:34:23.756 --> 0:34:25.154 so 0:34:25.154 --> 0:34:27.076 you worked in the refuge and everything and it was 0:34:27.076 --> 0:34:30.026 about the process of deciding to come out to your parents. 0:34:30.076 --> 0:34:35.714 Oh yeah, yeah, so so I'd kind of come to 0:34:35.714 --> 0:34:38.516 terms with my lesbian identity and then when I started 0:34:38.516 --> 0:34:39.714 doing degeneration. 0:34:40.085 --> 0:34:42.736 And it was a very straight world, lovely people, but 0:34:42.736 --> 0:34:45.535 you know, as I describe it, compared to the polymorphously 0:34:45.536 --> 0:34:47.634 perverse people I'd been with at was like moving in 0:34:47.634 --> 0:34:53.815 with the Waltons. So, um yeah, so it was, um, uh, I, 0:34:53.955 --> 0:34:57.614 I had gone through this whole process of going in 0:34:57.614 --> 0:34:59.495 and out of the closet, as it were. Like I 0:34:59.496 --> 0:35:02.096 was quite out when I was at uni and then 0:35:02.096 --> 0:35:06.846 I sort of retracted and then, um, had this interview 0:35:06.846 --> 0:35:07.654 and um. 0:35:08.036 --> 0:35:11.674 Um, and I'd always, I always knew that no matter what, 0:35:11.766 --> 0:35:15.205 I wouldn't lie, that I would never ever lie or 0:35:15.205 --> 0:35:17.885 put up a front or pretend to be straight, but 0:35:17.884 --> 0:35:19.286 I wasn't sure what I would do when I was 0:35:19.286 --> 0:35:21.986 flat out asked, and this woman said to me, you know, 0:35:22.165 --> 0:35:23.526 so there are rumors, and one of them is that 0:35:23.526 --> 0:35:25.445 you're a homosexual. How do you feel about that? And 0:35:25.444 --> 0:35:29.475 this extraordinary enfoie came over me and I just said, 0:35:29.565 --> 0:35:30.326 I don't care. 0:35:30.705 --> 0:35:32.664 And I was amazed. I was like, honestly, I was 0:35:32.665 --> 0:35:34.634 like James Dean. I was just so cool. It's the 0:35:34.634 --> 0:35:36.905 only time in my life I've been cool, but I 0:35:36.904 --> 0:35:38.465 have to leave. Yeah, but I've got to go now, 0:35:38.585 --> 0:35:41.185 and I just whacked up a huge boundary and went, 0:35:41.266 --> 0:35:44.464 you know, deal with that sucker, and, um, uh, and left. 0:35:45.076 --> 0:35:49.625 But then went and had a meltdown and decided you 0:35:49.625 --> 0:35:51.266 had to tell your parents and your brother was there. 0:35:51.384 --> 0:35:53.945 It's the most fabulous scene. Just just talk us through it. 0:35:54.105 --> 0:35:57.105 Oh, so I went, my brother at that time was 0:35:57.105 --> 0:36:01.455 a rides motorbikes. His cars and motorbikes are his thing, 0:36:01.665 --> 0:36:03.736 and he had a beard like Zizi top down to 0:36:03.736 --> 0:36:06.904 his his navel and a big Harley belt buckle. 0:36:07.614 --> 0:36:10.056 And gorgeous and a plait, you know, his hair plaited 0:36:10.056 --> 0:36:12.296 and I told him, and he was like, Yeah, all right, 0:36:12.404 --> 0:36:16.335 you know, whatever. I told him ages ago like years ago, 0:36:16.375 --> 0:36:17.415 but I told him I was going to tell Mom 0:36:17.415 --> 0:36:19.935 and dad, and he said if they attack you, I'll 0:36:19.935 --> 0:36:21.455 come with you. I said, will you come there and 0:36:21.455 --> 0:36:23.975 be an example of someone in the family who's OK 0:36:23.975 --> 0:36:25.856 about it and just sort of show them the way 0:36:25.855 --> 0:36:26.526 he said a really 0:36:26.526 --> 0:36:26.576 interesting. 0:36:26.710 --> 0:36:28.730 thing to you, he said if they because you're famous 0:36:28.730 --> 0:36:30.100 by that stage, and he said if they're going to 0:36:30.100 --> 0:36:32.981 wear you as a sparkly coat to impress their friends 0:36:32.980 --> 0:36:36.770 or something like that, then they also have to, you know, 0:36:36.779 --> 0:36:38.690 not that this is bad, but they have to accept 0:36:38.690 --> 0:36:39.579 every part of you. 0:36:39.661 --> 0:36:40.259 Yeah, that's right. 0:36:41.230 --> 0:36:44.239 I know it was beautiful. What a great big brother 0:36:44.239 --> 0:36:47.820 and um so he came along and he was sitting 0:36:47.819 --> 0:36:50.981 at the breakfast bar and it was a Sunday night. Um, 0:36:51.299 --> 0:36:53.701 my parents, my parents live in Boronia, which is like 0:36:53.701 --> 0:36:55.611 30 km out of Melbourne and um. 0:36:55.935 --> 0:36:56.736 And my mom. 0:36:58.786 --> 0:37:02.384 Said, 000, this is a, this is an unusual time 0:37:02.384 --> 0:37:05.694 to visit. And I said, um, um, well, I'd like 0:37:05.694 --> 0:37:07.555 to talk about something actually because can we turn the 0:37:07.556 --> 0:37:10.745 television off, I want to talk about something. She went, Oh, yes, 0:37:10.864 --> 0:37:13.346 we'd love to chat. She had no idea what she 0:37:13.346 --> 0:37:17.674 was in for. And so we turned the TV off and, um, 0:37:17.705 --> 0:37:19.575 then she said, so what do you want to talk about? 0:37:19.875 --> 0:37:21.665 And I said, um, well, I suppose we should talk 0:37:21.665 --> 0:37:24.184 about the fact that, you know, I'm in my early 0:37:24.185 --> 0:37:26.296 30s and there's never really been mention of a boyfriend. 0:37:26.424 --> 0:37:26.694 She went, 0:37:27.174 --> 0:37:30.536 Oh, uh-huh, and Dad just sort of was, you know, 0:37:30.654 --> 0:37:32.374 and it just all went from there and she kept 0:37:32.375 --> 0:37:35.214 asking questions and dad was put up his hands defensively 0:37:35.214 --> 0:37:36.924 and wanted to know but didn't want to know, and, 0:37:37.214 --> 0:37:39.614 you know, but in the end they were absolutely gorgeous 0:37:39.614 --> 0:37:39.935 about it. 0:37:40.165 --> 0:37:41.455 Yeah she said things like, oh, there's a lot of 0:37:41.455 --> 0:37:42.016 you around 0:37:42.016 --> 0:37:44.405 now. Yeah she said, she said, um, she said, oh, 0:37:44.496 --> 0:37:46.975 there's an awful lot of you around. Oh, I'm sorry, 0:37:47.056 --> 0:37:49.134 I don't mean to be rude, that's not rude, is it? 0:37:49.296 --> 0:37:52.806 You know, she's so cute. And, and she kept leaning going, 0:37:52.935 --> 0:37:54.835 I'd say we're talking about my sexuality and she go, uh, 0:37:55.736 --> 0:37:56.605 which is. 0:37:58.214 --> 0:37:59.815 And you didn't want to use the word lesbian. 0:38:00.096 --> 0:38:02.256 No, I thought that would have been too confronting. Yeah, yeah, 0:38:02.335 --> 0:38:03.174 and the 0:38:03.174 --> 0:38:04.096 project you didn't want to. 0:38:04.955 --> 0:38:07.915 Uh, let me just define my terms here. Um, I 0:38:07.915 --> 0:38:10.924 identify as gay myself. Now, um, when I say that, 0:38:11.016 --> 0:38:14.246 what I'm saying is that I am absolutely not straight. 0:38:14.455 --> 0:38:17.645 I wouldn't define myself as bisexual either. I would say 0:38:17.645 --> 0:38:19.815 I am like gay, gay, gay, gay, gay, gay, gay, 0:38:19.855 --> 0:38:21.134 a little bit not gay, gay, gay, gay gay. 0:38:22.315 --> 0:38:25.864 No, well, also because my sexuality is a little bit complicated. 0:38:26.114 --> 0:38:31.596 I'm not a hungji, you know, 100% yeah well there's 0:38:31.596 --> 0:38:33.256 a lot of us who are like that. There you 0:38:33.256 --> 0:38:35.634 know there's the Kinsey scale of the 1 to 6, 0:38:36.036 --> 0:38:38.276 those who are completely heterosexual and those who are completely gay, 0:38:38.395 --> 0:38:40.874 and I'm somewhere, you know, pretty far up the gay 0:38:40.875 --> 0:38:41.875 end but not totally. 0:38:42.036 --> 0:38:44.875 There's a bit of a stampede into that section, isn't 0:38:44.875 --> 0:38:48.516 really like everyone wants to like fall over each other now, 0:38:48.556 --> 0:38:48.874 which is 0:38:49.076 --> 0:38:53.315 Hilarious probably for for your generation and my generation who 0:38:53.315 --> 0:38:55.756 would have grown up hiding it. Now everyone's like, you know, 0:38:55.796 --> 0:38:58.236 I'm just a bit fluid and I'm not gay, I'm 0:38:58.236 --> 0:39:00.114 just having a relationship with a woman, you know, 0:39:01.326 --> 0:39:03.276 I hear that Stewart's very strong on that line, 0:39:03.875 --> 0:39:06.194 and now they're not even just gay, they're gender fluid, 0:39:06.236 --> 0:39:08.874 so maybe I'm not even a woman Cyrus. I could 0:39:08.875 --> 0:39:09.835 be also sometimes a 0:39:09.835 --> 0:39:12.674 boy I think um I think Ruby Rose takes that 0:39:12.674 --> 0:39:13.475 line a little bit too, 0:39:14.114 --> 0:39:15.715 so it's kind of like um. 0:39:16.246 --> 0:39:20.375 You know, being a boring old lesbian is just really 0:39:20.375 --> 0:39:21.346 conservative 0:39:21.346 --> 0:39:21.905 in a way it is. 0:39:22.526 --> 0:39:26.394 Well, yeah, I know exactly, but that was why in 0:39:26.395 --> 0:39:28.556 some ways it was easier for me to come out 0:39:28.556 --> 0:39:32.516 in 2012 because that conversation was around. Had I come 0:39:32.516 --> 0:39:35.855 out earlier, I would have been absolutely labeled as a lesbian. 0:39:35.955 --> 0:39:38.556 I would have had to, you know, even some. 0:39:38.679 --> 0:39:41.109 who were advising me were saying don't go there, don't 0:39:41.109 --> 0:39:43.768 complicate it, just say you're gay. You don't want to 0:39:43.768 --> 0:39:47.109 because what's her name, the redhead from Sex and the 0:39:47.109 --> 0:39:52.238 City's got into all sorts 0:39:52.238 --> 0:39:55.488 of exactly she really did and so someone was advising 0:39:55.488 --> 0:39:57.747 me saying don't go there, you'll get a shit storm 0:39:57.748 --> 0:39:59.788 come down on you, and I was like, and I 0:39:59.788 --> 0:40:01.027 felt so backfooted. 0:40:01.111 --> 0:40:03.580 Then and I was like, no, the whole point of 0:40:03.580 --> 0:40:05.661 coming out is so I can be my real self, 0:40:06.100 --> 0:40:11.252 and that's you put yourself into a different box that exactly, exactly, 0:40:11.821 --> 0:40:13.142 and that was when I came up with the gay 0:40:13.142 --> 0:40:16.191 ga gay little bit which I just thought a fabulous. 0:40:16.781 --> 0:40:19.142 Oh thanks, and it just expresses who I am, what 0:40:19.142 --> 0:40:21.861 my experience has been like, and it was funny, you know, 0:40:22.060 --> 0:40:24.181 and not too serious about it. And 0:40:24.181 --> 0:40:25.261 were you nervous that night? 0:40:25.654 --> 0:40:29.746 Yeah, I was. I was really nervous, yeah, because I 0:40:29.746 --> 0:40:33.486 felt I knew that there were very, that I was 0:40:33.486 --> 0:40:37.085 probably the first one of the first A-list celebrities who 0:40:37.085 --> 0:40:40.405 had who's been in, you know, a household name who 0:40:40.404 --> 0:40:43.915 had this opportunity to speak on behalf of so many 0:40:44.125 --> 0:40:46.075 millions of Australians. 0:40:46.556 --> 0:40:50.715 And that most of most of the LGBTQI people never 0:40:50.714 --> 0:40:53.674 get that opportunity to express what it's like, what it 0:40:53.674 --> 0:40:56.435 feels like, and what we're up against, and to try 0:40:56.435 --> 0:40:59.465 and advance the cause of marriage equality. So I felt 0:40:59.464 --> 0:41:02.576 a huge responsibility because I didn't want to just come out, 0:41:02.596 --> 0:41:04.395 it wasn't just a question of coming out for myself. 0:41:04.435 --> 0:41:06.585 It was I really wanted to be a part 0:41:06.585 --> 0:41:08.675 of that and that's why you chose that time. I 0:41:08.674 --> 0:41:10.225 wanted to read the statement that 0:41:10.451 --> 0:41:14.181 Um, you came out with, you said we pay taxes, 0:41:14.339 --> 0:41:16.499 fight wars for this country, nurse you when you are sick, 0:41:16.651 --> 0:41:19.180 make you laugh, sing and dance for you, play netball 0:41:19.181 --> 0:41:21.520 for you, star in your movies, cook your meals, decorate 0:41:21.520 --> 0:41:24.611 your store windows, and chances are gay people designed whatever 0:41:24.611 --> 0:41:27.940 it is you're wearing. All Australians, including gay Australians should 0:41:27.940 --> 0:41:30.981 have exactly the same rights, including the right to love, marry, 0:41:31.060 --> 0:41:33.930 and take care of our partners. So, 0:41:34.855 --> 0:41:36.296 How did you write that? How did you come up 0:41:36.296 --> 0:41:39.046 with that statement and what was behind it for you? 0:41:39.276 --> 0:41:39.286 Um, 0:41:40.056 --> 0:41:43.894 well, I kind of wanted to, you know, ease into 0:41:43.895 --> 0:41:46.856 it the whole thing and, and kind of get people's 0:41:46.855 --> 0:41:50.536 attention because, um, you know, there's no point if you're 0:41:50.536 --> 0:41:53.695 doing something like that for a cause, you, you, you 0:41:53.694 --> 0:41:56.614 want people to be listening, otherwise fall on deaf ears 0:41:56.614 --> 0:41:59.654 and there's no use. So, um, we had this whole 0:41:59.654 --> 0:42:01.455 kind of strategy going and it was sort of hilarious. 0:42:01.739 --> 0:42:03.580 It was like the war room, you know, there 0:42:03.580 --> 0:42:08.560 was Alex Greenwich from Marriage equality, Karen Phelps and Jackie 0:42:08.560 --> 0:42:09.480 and Jackie Stoker 0:42:09.480 --> 0:42:13.140 Phelps, um, and another friend of mine, Jo Jarvis, who 0:42:13.141 --> 0:42:14.460 helped out as well, she was fantastic 0:42:14.460 --> 0:42:17.060 and you were saying Karen's Karen had been encouraging you 0:42:17.060 --> 0:42:18.489 to come out for a long time. Yeah, 0:42:18.661 --> 0:42:20.250 she had because she knew. 0:42:20.776 --> 0:42:27.576 Um, like their journey was pretty rocky. Like they were 0:42:27.576 --> 0:42:28.714 out and they had a hard time really were, but 0:42:28.714 --> 0:42:32.565 she also knew how amazing it feels afterwards. So 0:42:32.565 --> 0:42:32.725 she 0:42:32.725 --> 0:42:34.365 wanted you to come out not for the sake of 0:42:34.364 --> 0:42:35.766 the movement but for you, 0:42:35.924 --> 0:42:38.204 yeah, yeah, she wanted me to feel the freedom that 0:42:38.205 --> 0:42:40.766 she and Jackie felt, which was, you know, so lovely 0:42:40.766 --> 0:42:44.424 of her. She's a great friend, good, good woman, really 0:42:44.424 --> 0:42:44.884 good woman. 0:42:45.455 --> 0:42:48.215 Um, and, um, so we had, we, you know, we'd 0:42:48.214 --> 0:42:50.536 have these hilarious meetings. It was so fun, you know, 0:42:50.736 --> 0:42:54.605 planning it war room and talking about what I'd say, and, 0:42:54.685 --> 0:42:57.215 and then I just really had to find my own 0:42:57.214 --> 0:42:59.655 language around it and, and feel as comfortable with it 0:42:59.654 --> 0:43:02.455 and own it myself, um, because if I'm, if I 0:43:02.455 --> 0:43:07.056 feel I'm parroting, um, someone else's agenda or a cause, 0:43:07.174 --> 0:43:09.256 even though I was speaking on behalf of the cause, I, I, 0:43:09.335 --> 0:43:11.495 I don't do that very well, um. 0:43:11.736 --> 0:43:13.395 Yeah, I have to really feel it. 0:43:13.766 --> 0:43:16.046 And you um you talked about when you lost the 0:43:16.046 --> 0:43:18.645 weight you were worried that you know people put all 0:43:18.645 --> 0:43:20.685 their own baggage onto it and it's like you don't 0:43:20.685 --> 0:43:22.685 lose too much, you still want to be funny and 0:43:22.685 --> 0:43:25.885 you suddenly started to wonder if you'd still be able to, 0:43:25.915 --> 0:43:28.885 as you put it so beautifully, feel the vibration of 0:43:28.884 --> 0:43:31.605 Sharon who you were playing at that time in Kath 0:43:31.605 --> 0:43:32.086 and Kim. 0:43:32.786 --> 0:43:36.796 And did it make you feel different in terms of 0:43:36.884 --> 0:43:38.634 of your comedy? Yeah, 0:43:38.806 --> 0:43:42.565 it did. It actually really did because um it's not 0:43:42.565 --> 0:43:44.925 that I'm saying that you you um you have to 0:43:44.924 --> 0:43:47.486 be unattractive to be funny. I'm not playing into that thing. 0:43:48.006 --> 0:43:50.964 There are lots of beautiful women who are hilarious, but 0:43:50.964 --> 0:43:54.365 my shtick was very much around a particular physical shape 0:43:54.364 --> 0:43:56.806 in the same way that John Cleese has that stick 0:43:56.806 --> 0:44:00.326 insect body and he makes, that's his shtick. Being overweight 0:44:00.326 --> 0:44:03.645 and using my body in a particular way was part 0:44:03.645 --> 0:44:06.364 of really how I, that was a big part of 0:44:06.364 --> 0:44:08.486 what my comedy persona was. 0:44:09.046 --> 0:44:12.556 And so, um, and you know, do you remember, um, 0:44:12.625 --> 0:44:14.875 the Mary Tyler Moore Show and her friend Rhonda lost 0:44:14.875 --> 0:44:16.846 all the weight and just it all went shit, you know, 0:44:17.964 --> 0:44:19.915 there were things like that where it was just like, 0:44:20.364 --> 0:44:20.585 you know, 0:44:20.884 --> 0:44:22.756 male comedians, same thing, yeah, 0:44:22.975 --> 0:44:25.615 yeah, it, it's, it's actually not an easy thing. 0:44:25.799 --> 0:44:28.901 To negotiate. People do see you in a different way. 0:44:28.980 --> 0:44:32.770 They take you, they take you a little bit more seriously. Even, 0:44:32.779 --> 0:44:38.529 even when you're, you know, not, um, trying to be serious, 0:44:38.739 --> 0:44:41.499 it just shifts everything. It really does shift the vibration 0:44:41.500 --> 0:44:43.980 quite significantly. um, so. 0:44:44.355 --> 0:44:46.785 You know that thing of, you know, even with this book, 0:44:46.975 --> 0:44:49.175 it's interesting that some people just really want it to 0:44:49.174 --> 0:44:51.694 be about Sharon Strzelecki. They don't want to know about 0:44:51.694 --> 0:44:53.695 the darker side of things, even though once they read 0:44:53.694 --> 0:44:56.006 the book they love it, but before they come to it, 0:44:56.016 --> 0:44:58.815 they they have a perception of me that they really 0:44:58.815 --> 0:44:59.856 want to maintain. 0:45:00.464 --> 0:45:02.634 But how much control did you have over the cover? 0:45:02.705 --> 0:45:04.475 It's one of my, I just love it. It's just 0:45:04.475 --> 0:45:07.586 so unadorned and not 0:45:07.875 --> 0:45:08.435 like 0:45:08.435 --> 0:45:09.915 it ain't a celebrity photos. 0:45:10.194 --> 0:45:13.026 No, I love it and it's everything about the book, 0:45:13.276 --> 0:45:15.914 right? Oh well, funnily enough, I didn't want my picture 0:45:15.915 --> 0:45:16.114 to be. 0:45:16.266 --> 0:45:20.296 I would have loved to have loved that. That was 0:45:20.296 --> 0:45:31.076 never going to happen. Little did I know. I was thinking, yeah, 0:45:31.085 --> 0:45:31.556 they're going to let me do that should be on 0:45:31.556 --> 0:45:31.816 the cover. 0:45:32.596 --> 0:45:34.236 I wanted to have just like a white cover with 0:45:34.236 --> 0:45:36.975 my name and, but they, they, they just said no, 0:45:36.996 --> 0:45:40.875 that doesn't work for us. Um, but, um, um, yeah, 0:45:41.036 --> 0:45:45.555 I really very much wanted to not have a celebrity, 0:45:45.835 --> 0:45:48.944 it's not a celebrity memoir, and I wanted it to 0:45:48.944 --> 0:45:51.955 register as that. And, and as I said before, this book, 0:45:52.076 --> 0:45:56.185 it's really the real me, you know, and, um, you know, 0:45:56.634 --> 0:45:58.236 at the age of 54, if you can't be the 0:45:58.236 --> 0:45:59.955 real you, when can you be really. 0:46:00.475 --> 0:46:06.185 Congratulations, Magda, it's an absolute triumph. Thank you. It's just, 0:46:06.395 --> 0:46:12.675 it's beautiful, it's funny, it's moving, it's gripping, um, and, uh, yeah, 0:46:12.796 --> 0:46:16.026 I'm just so thrilled for you that you've been able 0:46:16.026 --> 0:46:20.036 to um produce such an extraordinary thing because writing is 0:46:20.036 --> 0:46:20.705 hard, 0:46:22.036 --> 0:46:24.756 is can be hard and you've just made it seem 0:46:24.756 --> 0:46:26.965 so effortless and you are just. 0:46:27.214 --> 0:46:28.315 An inspiration. 0:46:28.475 --> 0:46:32.364 Oh, thank you. Well, you too, you too. Thank you. 0:46:32.486 --> 0:46:33.154 Congrats. 0:46:33.326 --> 0:46:34.076 Thank you. 0:46:35.236 --> 0:46:38.155 Thanks for listening to No Filter. Subscribe on iTunes so 0:46:38.154 --> 0:46:40.585 you'll be the first to know when a new episode drops. 0:46:40.796 --> 0:46:43.444 This show is hosted by me, Mia Freedman, and produced 0:46:43.444 --> 0:46:46.635 by Ariza Ratliff for the Mamma Mia Podcast Network. You 0:46:46.634 --> 0:46:48.355 can find out more about all our shows on the 0:46:48.355 --> 0:46:52.296 Mamma Mia Podcast Network's Facebook page or on my Facebook page, 0:46:52.516 --> 0:46:53.276 Mia Freedman. 0:46:54.424 --> 0:46:57.705 Contact us, suggest an interview subject, leave feedback or just 0:46:57.705 --> 0:47:00.575 show us your love via Twitter at Mamma Mia podcast, 0:47:00.746 --> 0:47:04.185 or by emailing podcast at MammaMia.com.au.