Speaker 1: This episode of Cez the A is brought to you
Speaker 1: by GHD Unplugged Confidence you can carry with you for
Speaker 1: good hair days, anytime, anywhere.
Speaker 2: I don't want to go through this life and look
Speaker 2: back and say why didn't I? Why wasn't I? You know,
Speaker 2: why couldn't I. Of those four attempts when we didn't
Speaker 2: make it that were, so to speak, failures, were rich,
Speaker 2: rich journeys. We were on a steep learning curve each time.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Seize the Ya Podcast. Busy and happy
Speaker 1: are not the same thing. We too rarely question what
Speaker 1: makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but
Speaker 1: rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than
Speaker 1: one way. So this is a platform to hear and
Speaker 1: explore the stories of those who found lives they adore, the.
Speaker 3: Good, bad and ugly.
Speaker 1: The best and worst day will bear all the facets
Speaker 1: of Seizing your Ya. I'm Sarah Davidson or a spoonful
Speaker 1: of Sarah, a lawyer turned entrepreneur who swapped the suits
Speaker 1: and heels to co found Matchamy and MATCHA milkbar Cza
Speaker 1: is a series of conversations on finding a life you
Speaker 1: love and exploring the self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment
Speaker 1: along the way. Well, today's is a guest who I'd
Speaker 1: count as one of my favorite speakers of all time,
Speaker 1: who I was lucky enough to hear from on Sir
Speaker 1: Richard Branson's Necker Island during our incredible troupe with Business
Speaker 1: Chicks in twenty nineteen. I've been hoping to share this
Speaker 1: amazing woman's infectious enthusiasm, energetic storytelling, and mind blowing stories
Speaker 1: since that moment nearly two years ago now, and I'm
Speaker 1: so so excited to finally share her with you now.
Speaker 1: Diana and Iad was probably always destined to be a
Speaker 1: legendary swimmer, with her surname meaning water nymph in Greek mythology,
Speaker 1: which I know because it was the name of one
Speaker 1: of my houses in high school. With many achievements in
Speaker 1: competitive swimming over her lifetime, it was an idea that
Speaker 1: hit her at nine years old to swim from Cuba
Speaker 1: to Florida that never left her. Starting from twenty ten,
Speaker 1: Diana began the enormous quest to swim over fifty hours
Speaker 1: solo through freezing, shark and chellyfish infested waters, making not one,
Speaker 1: not two, but five attempts before successfully covering the one
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty kilometers and get this at sixty four
Speaker 1: years old, As Hillary Clinton puts it perfectly, when you're
Speaker 1: facing big challenges in your life, you can simply think
Speaker 1: about Diana and nearly anything else seems doable by comparison.
Speaker 1: Before we jump in, I just wanted to throw a
Speaker 1: very big shout out to Emma Isaacs and the Business
Speaker 1: Chicks team again for continually creating invaluable, unfigettable experiences for
Speaker 1: so many of us and making some of the world's
Speaker 1: most fascinating and inspiring people like Diana accessible to its members.
Speaker 1: If you aren't already a member, I can't recommend anything
Speaker 1: more highly for seizing your yeas 'll pop a link
Speaker 1: in the show notes. I hope you are as invigorated
Speaker 1: and inspired by this one as I am and plays
Speaker 1: excuse a little bit scratchy the audio than usual. The
Speaker 1: tech boys got us good, but in true Diana fashion,
Speaker 1: we pressed on. Oh Diana, it is so lovely to
Speaker 1: see you again.
Speaker 3: You.
Speaker 2: How have you been? So? Was it all of twenty
Speaker 2: nineteen that we were in Necker Island or was it twenty.
Speaker 4: Eighteen twenty nineteen to nearly two.
Speaker 2: Richard's been in space.
Speaker 4: Now unbelievable, unbelievable.
Speaker 2: Talk about a dream, you know. When I was with him,
Speaker 2: he said to me, and it really affected me. We
Speaker 2: were just kind of walking. We were walking from down
Speaker 2: by the tennis courts up to the Big House, and
Speaker 2: he said, you see those, you know, kind of barracks
Speaker 2: over there, Well, that's where the tennis pros, and you
Speaker 2: know a lot of the workers on the grounds live
Speaker 2: and then they all live on different islands close by,
Speaker 2: but when they have to spend the night here, and
Speaker 2: he said, the truth is, if I lost all of
Speaker 2: this tomorrow, I could. I could live in one of
Speaker 2: those barracks. My wife could too. But what has really
Speaker 2: given me power with the money I have and the
Speaker 2: success I've had, is that I can call anybody in
Speaker 2: the world. If I call the Pope tomorrow, he will
Speaker 2: return my call. And that is what power is. If
Speaker 2: you can have influencers believe in what you believe in,
Speaker 2: and help you toward your making a better world. That's
Speaker 2: what I value, not all these beautiful, expensive things, you know.
Speaker 2: And I was really impressed by that, and I really
Speaker 2: believe it.
Speaker 1: I agree actually so much That's one of the biggest
Speaker 1: things I took away from our wonderful time on the
Speaker 1: island was that shift. For all of us, I think
Speaker 1: had been chasing a certain type of success and thinking
Speaker 1: that that was what we were heading towards, and actually
Speaker 1: realizing that someone who has already reached that pinnacle over
Speaker 1: and over and over again. His biggest takeaway for all
Speaker 1: of us was that's not the be all and end all,
Speaker 1: That what you think you're striving for is not necessarily
Speaker 1: what you need to be striving for. And I think
Speaker 1: it was good for us all to see that.
Speaker 2: I think as you get older too. You know, Richard
Speaker 2: and I a exactly the same age, and we had
Speaker 2: I think some sympatico about now I can't compare my
Speaker 2: success is because it's not of that level. But I
Speaker 2: think as you get older, how old are you now?
Speaker 2: For instance, two thirty two, so you know we're quite
Speaker 2: a bit older. I'll be seventy two in a month
Speaker 2: or so. And no, no matter what I feel vital,
Speaker 2: I'm very you know, I've got a lot of energy,
Speaker 2: I've got a lot to do left in life. But
Speaker 2: you have to get real. Seventy two is not thirty two,
Speaker 2: and I think that your goals broaden out to include
Speaker 2: other people and include the world at large. When you're younger,
Speaker 2: you you know, you could, you could be absurd and
Speaker 2: take it to an infant. You know what an infant's
Speaker 2: life is all about. You know what milk can I get?
Speaker 2: What hugs can I get? It's all about me, me, me,
Speaker 2: of course. And then as you get older, you start
Speaker 2: looking outside yourself, and I think maybe Richard has achieved that.
Speaker 2: I know in my life I've been going that direction.
Speaker 1: Well, let's officially kick off this episode. I already started
Speaker 1: recording because we were having such a good chat. So
Speaker 1: welcome Diana to sees the A. It is just so
Speaker 1: delightful to see you. As we just mentioned, we had
Speaker 1: been on Necker Island together nearly two years ago and
Speaker 1: it was one right up there with one of the
Speaker 1: most transformative experiences of my life, and I imagine for
Speaker 1: all of us on the island. We took away something
Speaker 1: very very special, and one of the most special that
Speaker 1: I took away was getting to hear you speak. It
Speaker 1: was something that It's funny you mentioned that you don't
Speaker 1: feel like you could compare yourself to Richard, I absolutely
Speaker 1: think that you could, particularly because for people like myself,
Speaker 1: you suspend the concept of age in a really beautiful
Speaker 1: way that you don't see very often in a society
Speaker 1: that often sees aging as a bad thing. You seem
Speaker 1: to have only kept getting more and more vital as
Speaker 1: time has gone on, which is why I'm so excited
Speaker 1: to share your story. But I love to start every
Speaker 1: episode by asking people what the most down to earth
Speaker 1: thing and relatable thing is about them, because I do
Speaker 1: think we often put people in a pedestal or our
Speaker 1: media and perceived social media identities can be bit glossy,
Speaker 1: and particularly with successes like yours. Knowing also that one
Speaker 1: of the other recent podcasts you've been on was Hillary
Speaker 1: Clinton's Podcast of All Peoples, I definitely put you on
Speaker 1: a pedestal. But what would you say is the most
Speaker 1: relatable thing about you?
Speaker 2: Well? I don't mean delay this on you, but this
Speaker 2: is about as normal and relatable as it can get.
Speaker 2: This Sunday, so it's only a couple of days ago,
Speaker 2: I had to say my final goodbyes to my beloved
Speaker 2: hound dog Teddy. We spent sixteen years of sublime companionship together.
Speaker 2: He made this home in my life so special, so
Speaker 2: to have the final hug, and I've been crying rivers
Speaker 2: of tears. I'm probably gonna cry another one in one
Speaker 2: of the diet. But I've been hearing, not that I
Speaker 2: even have put it out there far and wide, you know,
Speaker 2: in terms of Facebook and all that, but I've been
Speaker 2: hearing from you know, all my friends and family from FUM,
Speaker 2: far and wide, and they know what a what a
Speaker 2: dog's love, what an animal's love is, and it's you know,
Speaker 2: we're lucky. We have love of any sort. You have
Speaker 2: love of a spouse or you know, love of a
Speaker 2: parent or a child, but it's just different. It's not
Speaker 2: to compare, but that nonverbal loyal every day. And so
Speaker 2: I've been looking for him. You know, it's only the
Speaker 2: second day and I'm looking, Teddy, where are you come back?
Speaker 2: Let me love you? Let me love you again? So,
Speaker 2: you know, talk about something that's not super superhuman. Millions
Speaker 2: of us feel it. I don't know if you ever
Speaker 2: heard the quote, but it goes the best defense of
Speaker 2: atheism is that if there were a god, our animals
Speaker 2: would live the same lifespan we do, instead of every
Speaker 2: twelve fourteen sixteen years going through the devastating depth of
Speaker 2: a family member that's so cherished in your heart. But
Speaker 2: it's just not the case. I've gone through it before
Speaker 2: and that didn't make this time any easier. So, you know,
Speaker 2: talk about a relatable human experience, that's my latest one,
Speaker 2: and it's it's profound.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry to hear that.
Speaker 1: And you know, honestly, I was so so incredibly humbled
Speaker 1: that you agreed to come on the show. But knowing
Speaker 1: that you had a passing of our little fur babies
Speaker 1: in the last two days, that even makes me trivially
Speaker 1: as humbled, because I wouldn't be showing up on podcasts
Speaker 1: two days after.
Speaker 2: But isn't it. It's one of the lessons we learned
Speaker 2: from our animals because they don't live as long as
Speaker 2: we do. That we love again, we need to live,
Speaker 2: we need to live on. So I've cried plenty, I'm
Speaker 2: going to cry plenty more. Last night. I will admit
Speaker 2: that I was never a John Denver fan. May you
Speaker 2: rest in peace, but I just wasn't my kind of music.
Speaker 2: But last night Bonnie and I were up and we
Speaker 2: were crying, and we were telling all our Teddy stories
Speaker 2: again and again it was gone the radio. That John
Speaker 2: Denver song came, which says, come let me love you,
Speaker 2: Come love me again, and I cried another rivera too.
Speaker 2: You know I could have said to you today, I'm
Speaker 2: just not up to it, but we need to. He's
Speaker 2: taught me. He's gone and I can cry, and I'm
Speaker 2: sure I will for many days to come. I'll miss
Speaker 2: him forever, but I need to. I need to live
Speaker 2: a life, and he was a great professor of every day.
Speaker 1: I had a beautiful quote as well that always makes
Speaker 1: me feel better about it, that don't lament that your
Speaker 1: dog doesn't live for your entire.
Speaker 4: Life, because you were there in his entire life.
Speaker 1: And that makes me feel so happy that he never
Speaker 1: had to know a day without you and without your love.
Speaker 2: And you know that I love that quote. And to
Speaker 2: add to it, you know, Sarah, I have virtually my
Speaker 2: whole life been traveling. I just lived my life on
Speaker 2: the road except for the training actually for the Cuba
Speaker 2: swim but because of COVID starting March twenty twenty until now,
Speaker 2: I have not been on a plane. You know, all
Speaker 2: the speeches have been virtual. I've turned down every possible
Speaker 2: trip that I might have taken because I wanted to
Speaker 2: see my dog through the twilight of his life. Instead
Speaker 2: of calling the dog sitter and hearing how his legs
Speaker 2: were failing or how he's doing, I observed him and
Speaker 2: cuddled him. And I do think it extended his life
Speaker 2: and equality not just a time frame. Listen, people died
Speaker 2: through COVID. They're still dying. People couldn't go to the
Speaker 2: hospital to say goodbye to their family and their friends.
Speaker 2: People lost their businesses, people crumbled financially. So I was lucky,
Speaker 2: one of the lucky ones. You know. Nothing devastating happened
Speaker 2: to me. But I will say that it was a
Speaker 2: positive life experience COVID for me in that because of
Speaker 2: being home, I had some sort of what you might
Speaker 2: call everyday life values, eating dinner with Bonnie every night
Speaker 2: instead of eating in some airport and being my teddy
Speaker 2: every day and every night for the last year and
Speaker 2: aur so from one of the few, maybe you could
Speaker 2: say that I was grateful for the epidemic in a way.
Speaker 2: Don't let me sound my selfish, little dog moment.
Speaker 4: No, I absolutely agree.
Speaker 1: I think well, of course, we wouldn't wish for it
Speaker 1: to happen the way that it did. There are many
Speaker 1: silver linings in terms of pace, reevaluation and life priorities
Speaker 1: and those little moments I call them little yays every
Speaker 1: day in the context of seizing the AA. I think
Speaker 1: we're always so pulled forward by this relentless forward motion
Speaker 1: towards productivity and busyness and all for things often that
Speaker 1: we love that are wonderful opportunities. But it does mean
Speaker 1: sometimes you're going so quickly your emotions don't have time
Speaker 1: to catch up with you that you just can't appreciate those.
Speaker 3: Small things like having dinner together.
Speaker 1: So I'm so glad that you've been able to find
Speaker 1: little silver linings in the last couple of years. But
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, you have had a very incredibly busy, ampacked,
Speaker 1: wonderful life, and you are one of the most wonderful
Speaker 1: storytellers I have ever heard. In fact, the moment you
Speaker 1: got out your bugle was just one of the highlights
Speaker 1: of my life. The very first section is your way Ta,
Speaker 1: which is basically explaining and going through all of the
Speaker 1: different chapters from very young Diana to now, because I
Speaker 1: think people often walk into your life at this chapter
Speaker 1: knowing how clear of purpose you are and what you know,
Speaker 1: what your values are, and how much direction you have
Speaker 1: about everything you do. And assume that you arrived there
Speaker 1: one day and you just knew what you know, what
Speaker 1: you were meant to do on this earth. But I
Speaker 1: don't think it happens that way, and it definitely doesn't
Speaker 1: happen in a straight line like most people assume. So
Speaker 1: take us back to very young Diana, what were you
Speaker 1: like as a kid? I mean, I feel like the
Speaker 1: fact that your surname is also a water nymph in
Speaker 1: Greek mythology is actually pretty damn cool.
Speaker 2: And you know, even before I answer you Sarah, and
Speaker 2: we'll go back to you know, my youth, which is
Speaker 2: so long ago, honestly I can barely remember it. But
Speaker 2: I will say that, you know, it's often a clichd
Speaker 2: question that a lot of interviews ask someone who's, you know,
Speaker 2: a bit older, and they'll say, what today would you
Speaker 2: tell your twenty year old self? And I say, that's
Speaker 2: patently absurd. You know, you know, the French expression goes,
Speaker 2: if only we knew more as the younger person, and
Speaker 2: we could do more as the older person. But you know,
Speaker 2: life is meant to be learned as you learn it.
Speaker 2: So I can't take you know, this supposed wisdom I
Speaker 2: have at seventy one, Almo, let's call it seventy two
Speaker 2: or just a month shy. And by the way, Americans,
Speaker 2: better than anyone in the world, hold on to our ages.
Speaker 2: I'm not seventy two. It's for twelve more out, don't
Speaker 2: go seventy two. I'm not seventy two. But anyway, I'm
Speaker 2: almost seventy two, So let's just call it that. How
Speaker 2: in the world would that twenty year old have fifty
Speaker 2: years of heartache and growing up and and becoming a
Speaker 2: you know, having perspective on the rest of the world,
Speaker 2: I'll woutch you. How can I give that wisdom to
Speaker 2: that twenty year old? It's just it's just absurd. So
Speaker 2: I just want to throw that in first and say that,
Speaker 2: you know, I guess as a young person, and I
Speaker 2: like to think, Sarah, one of the privileges of my
Speaker 2: life has been travel. I sometimes I can pick up
Speaker 2: the globe and I say, you know, it's not like
Speaker 2: I've lived everywhere, surely, but I've almost been everywhere. I've
Speaker 2: been to all the countries on the continent of Africa,
Speaker 2: same South America, all the cities in Western Europe, just
Speaker 2: about everywhere, Antarctica, et cetera. And one thing I find
Speaker 2: is that, yes, people have talents depending on what your
Speaker 2: culture appreciates. People have luck depending on you know, your
Speaker 2: birthright and some circumstances, you know, as you move through life.
Speaker 2: But I do think that the seven billion people on
Speaker 2: the planet today, let's say a caveat almost half don't
Speaker 2: even have enough water to drink every day. But of
Speaker 2: the three and a half billion, like you and me,
Speaker 2: you and I, I should say you have some choices
Speaker 2: and have been you know, we could say fortunate in
Speaker 2: a lot of ways. I think that basically we're all
Speaker 2: the same. We want to be part of a community
Speaker 2: that we help each other in. We want to live
Speaker 2: and love and dance and eat and drink. And you know,
Speaker 2: I don't care whether you're wearing a three thousand dollars
Speaker 2: pin striped suit or a you're in a hut, you know,
Speaker 2: in the Masai tribe in Kenya, those particular facets, the
Speaker 2: basics of human life are there. So I don't consider
Speaker 2: myself special at all. I think I am one of
Speaker 2: three and a half billion or are lucky enough to
Speaker 2: make some choices and to have clean water every day.
Speaker 2: But one thing that might have been a little different
Speaker 2: for me as a child, and I really don't know
Speaker 2: where it came from. I didn't have a parent who
Speaker 2: sat me down with this, or I didn't read some
Speaker 2: book where I got this, or see some movie where
Speaker 2: this was something that came to me. But most kids,
Speaker 2: of course, if you're under let's say age ten, they're
Speaker 2: not focused on, you know, when they're going to be eighteen.
Speaker 2: They can't even imagine being eleven, so they're very much
Speaker 2: just waking up and eating their cereal and running around
Speaker 2: and petting their dog and doing what they do. But
Speaker 2: for some reason, I had a pressure. I felt the
Speaker 2: pressure of the ticking clock when I was very young,
Speaker 2: and I felt it every single day. I was in
Speaker 2: fifth grade, so I was ten years old, that's our
Speaker 2: grade system, and the teacher said we should write an
Speaker 2: essay about what you want to do for the rest
Speaker 2: of your life, and almost all the kids were, well,
Speaker 2: I want to be a firefighter, I want to be
Speaker 2: a doctor, I want to blah blah blah. And my
Speaker 2: essay was all about the desperate passage of time. I said,
Speaker 2: And I didn't get to know my grandparents, but I
Speaker 2: understand that they live to be into their early or
Speaker 2: mid eighties, all of them. That means I only have
Speaker 2: seventy years don't live. I've got to get busy. I've
Speaker 2: already wasted the first ten. I gotta get busy. So
Speaker 2: something about me is driven to go to sleep every
Speaker 2: night where I've whether I've done something for myself or
Speaker 2: my dog or the world at large, with no regrets.
Speaker 2: I don't want to go through this life and look
Speaker 2: back and say, why didn't I. Why wasn't I, you know,
Speaker 2: Why couldn't I? You know? And it's true, like I said,
Speaker 2: I can't make my twenty year old self know what
Speaker 2: I know now. But I bet you I was doing
Speaker 2: the best I could with whatever skills I had at
Speaker 2: the age of twenty, whatever mentors I didn't have at
Speaker 2: the age of twenty. And I try to go to
Speaker 2: bed every night just like that ten year old me did,
Speaker 2: saying wow, I just couldn't have done any more, or
Speaker 2: with that day, Let's get a little sleep and get
Speaker 2: up and do it again. You know, I think that
Speaker 2: really sums up I can tell you. Oh I started
Speaker 2: swimming man, and I was living by the ocean, and
Speaker 2: that's why I'm sort of involved with it all that.
Speaker 2: There are all those details, but I think the basic,
Speaker 2: you know, sort of life value that I got somehow,
Speaker 2: don't know how early, don't waste it, don't look back
Speaker 2: at any of it with any regrets.
Speaker 1: That is extraordinary, because I do think it takes a
Speaker 1: lot of people an entire lifetime to kind of reach
Speaker 1: that realization, after which I don't think anything is a
Speaker 1: waste of time. And I also never think it is
Speaker 1: too late not to have a big epiphany and start
Speaker 1: to seize the most of what time you do have.
Speaker 1: But I think it does take a lot of people
Speaker 1: a lot longer, some kind of breakdown in the middle first,
Speaker 1: a couple of like veering off down different directions and
Speaker 1: coming back.
Speaker 4: But I love what you said.
Speaker 3: About not going back and wanting to change anything.
Speaker 1: Because I often have a similar response when I get asked,
Speaker 1: what would you tell your thirteen year old self? And
Speaker 1: of course I'd want to go back and hold myself
Speaker 1: in a tender embrace and say you don't need all
Speaker 1: that makeup, and don't worry about boys, and like, you know,
Speaker 1: all the things you think of the end of the
Speaker 1: world are not a droop in the ocean compared to
Speaker 1: what will come. But again I think you do. You
Speaker 1: have to learn all those things going forward, which means
Speaker 1: that at any one chapter in my life, even if
Speaker 1: I didn't go on and do all of those things forever,
Speaker 1: like my legal career didn't stay in that forever, I
Speaker 1: never think of it as a waste because it got
Speaker 1: me the knowledge that I needed to get to the
Speaker 1: next step. And I think what the way we perceive
Speaker 1: success today does is makes things look linear, like here
Speaker 1: is where I am now, there is where I want
Speaker 1: to be, There is success, happiness, I'll be happy when
Speaker 1: I get there, which means no one's ever actually happy
Speaker 1: and fulfilled because they're never there. That yardstick just keeps
Speaker 1: moving out and out and out, rather than just finding
Speaker 1: little chapters along the way that are your exact fulfillment
Speaker 1: in that moment, Which is what I love about you.
Speaker 1: Because even in the water which you did jump in,
Speaker 1: I think you started swimming seriously at seven and then
Speaker 1: have been in the water ever since. There have been
Speaker 1: different versions of that. There was an Olympic attempt, then
Speaker 1: there was marathon swimming, then there was a hiatus completely
Speaker 1: after thirty where you stop professional swimming, and even within
Speaker 1: one career or life path, there's been so many different
Speaker 1: iterations of what that looks like, which again I don't
Speaker 1: think people give themselves permission to do. They think we've
Speaker 1: got to find out purpose and stick with it forever.
Speaker 1: But it's evolving all the time. So can you talk
Speaker 1: us through that current.
Speaker 2: I find a lot of young people your age come
Speaker 2: to me, you know, I might give a speech somewhere,
Speaker 2: and a lot of younger people in their twenties and
Speaker 2: thirties come to me and say, I have energy, I
Speaker 2: have passion, I have discipline, but I don't know you
Speaker 2: know what my dream is. I just am not feeling
Speaker 2: anything that I really want to chase the way you've
Speaker 2: chased your dreams. And my answer to that is, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's not always easy. It's not always like, you know,
Speaker 2: there's some clear, well defined world record or you know,
Speaker 2: the book that you've got to write, whatever it is.
Speaker 2: But what I say to people is, and you know,
Speaker 2: people have said it in more politic ways that I'll
Speaker 2: come up with, but Gertez said it is there's a
Speaker 2: there's a magic in beginning things. And I truly believe
Speaker 2: that you don't need to finish everything you begin. You
Speaker 2: don't want to quit quickly, you know, you don't want
Speaker 2: to just give a little try and if it doesn't
Speaker 2: work for you, you know, you don't get up and
Speaker 2: get knocked down again and try again. But if it
Speaker 2: really isn't your dream, if you're just if you're suffering
Speaker 2: from you know, not being able to take a step
Speaker 2: in any direction, take a step in some direction, just say,
Speaker 2: you know, I think I think I'll pursue a degree
Speaker 2: in that in philosophy. I've always been interested. I don't
Speaker 2: know what I'm gonna do with it. What am I
Speaker 2: going to do make a living? That's a philosopher, you know,
Speaker 2: But at least you know it interests it stirs me.
Speaker 2: And then you go, because you said, sick of sitting
Speaker 2: around doing nothing, hoping that a white night is going
Speaker 2: to ride through your horse and grab you up and
Speaker 2: show you the way to you know where you should go,
Speaker 2: you take a step toward that degree and you find
Speaker 2: out maybe after a year you say it wasn't a
Speaker 2: waste of time, it was worthwhile. Reading Nietzschee and Cure
Speaker 2: of Guard but it's not the real need. But while
Speaker 2: I was taking that step, I had a vision and
Speaker 2: other things came to me, And in reading Cure of Guard,
Speaker 2: I decided, you know, what I really want to do
Speaker 2: is sail around the world. That's what I really want
Speaker 2: to do. I want to be in a sailboat and
Speaker 2: be poor and catch fish every day, and I want
Speaker 2: to sail around the world and see the whole world
Speaker 2: by the ocean. I'm making all this up and I'm
Speaker 2: just saying, take a step somewhere, and there's no shame
Speaker 2: in not finishing that avenue. Now, if it's really a
Speaker 2: dream of yours and it's deep in your soul and heart,
Speaker 2: and you're on your way and you've taken the steps,
Speaker 2: but you've gotten knocked down and you can't get there. Now,
Speaker 2: I say, you don't give up, You get back up,
Speaker 2: you take the more steps, you get knocked down again,
Speaker 2: And if you really have it in your resolve, deep
Speaker 2: in your soul, but that's where you want to go,
Speaker 2: that's what you want to do. Now, you don't give up.
Speaker 2: That wasn't just a well I don't know what to do.
Speaker 2: I'll take a couple of steps this way. If it
Speaker 2: doesn't work out, I'll take a couple of steps that way.
Speaker 2: I started a PhD in my twenties in comparative literature.
Speaker 2: Really my book that I was reading French and German
Speaker 2: novels all day and discussing them. My mother would say, well,
Speaker 2: that's great. How are you going to make a living,
Speaker 2: you know, reading French novels. But I was in this
Speaker 2: pursuit and I swam around Manhattan Island in the middle
Speaker 2: of that degree. It became a big deal, and all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, I had a different vision and wanted
Speaker 2: to go for Cuba and wanted to be a sports announcer,
Speaker 2: and so I let that degree behind me. Has that
Speaker 2: bothered me my whole life. I've been saying, I've got
Speaker 2: to finish that PhD in compareative literature. I can't be unsuccessful. No,
Speaker 2: I don't care about it. But it was worthwhile. It's
Speaker 2: worth a few steps I took toward that PhD and
Speaker 2: I left it behind and something else bubbled up that
Speaker 2: was more the real me. So you know, there are
Speaker 2: sort of two factions I'm talking about. If you don't
Speaker 2: know what to do and you don't have a dream
Speaker 2: in mind, do something don't just sit around hoping it'll
Speaker 2: come to you. But if you have a big dream
Speaker 2: and you want to have a child, you know something,
Speaker 2: really that's going to take all your life to dedicate
Speaker 2: yourself to. Now you stick with it, you go and
Speaker 2: that child becomes your priority and you live it and
Speaker 2: no matter how tough it is, you get to the
Speaker 2: other side with that child.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, this is why I love talking to
Speaker 4: you so much.
Speaker 1: You are so energizing and infigurating, and it's just so true.
Speaker 1: If you don't know what you want to do, the
Speaker 1: time's going to pause anyway, so you might as well
Speaker 1: do something. But once you do know what you want
Speaker 1: to do, I thought it was actually interesting for the
Speaker 1: woman who has made five attempts to swim from Cuba
Speaker 1: to Flow to say you don't necessarily have to finish something.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I feel like this woman needs to finish something.
Speaker 1: But I love the caveat that if it turns out
Speaker 1: not to be what you want, there is no shame
Speaker 1: in not finishing something that doesn't serve you anymore. Because
Speaker 1: finding out that you don't like something, I think is
Speaker 1: just as valuable as finding out what you do like.
Speaker 1: Because it's still a step closer to the thing that
Speaker 1: you do want to do. So given that you did
Speaker 1: have this big calling to do this gigantic, enormous swim
Speaker 1: and passion enough to get you through five attempts of
Speaker 1: what is, I can only imagine how. I can't even
Speaker 1: imagine how grueling it must have been. And I've already
Speaker 1: heard the story, but it gives me goosebumps every time,
Speaker 1: knowing that that was your goal.
Speaker 4: How did the.
Speaker 1: Olympic attempt play into it? How did the shorter distance swimming?
Speaker 1: And then how do you decide to close that chapter,
Speaker 1: take a break from swimming, come back to it. Talk
Speaker 1: us through how you ultimately got to that first attempt, because.
Speaker 3: There are a lot of different things first, Yeah.
Speaker 2: But to truth this, Sarah, you know, you know often
Speaker 2: I'm older than you are. So sometimes I read people's
Speaker 2: versions of my life and say, yeah, they don't have
Speaker 2: it quite right, because you can. You know, if you
Speaker 2: want to tell your life, you tell it yourself. So
Speaker 2: people have written about, oh, I had this heart disease,
Speaker 2: which I did. It was called endocarditis. It's not the
Speaker 2: end of the world, but I was three months in
Speaker 2: strict lay down bed rest, and that was in the
Speaker 2: middle of my sprint swimming teenage career, and so yes,
Speaker 2: I lost some muscle, I lost some speed. But the
Speaker 2: truth is I wasn't one of the best swimmers in
Speaker 2: the world. I wasn't one of the top sprinters in
Speaker 2: the United States. I didn't know as a teenager that
Speaker 2: my talent was swimming powerful miles over the curvature of
Speaker 2: the earth. I thought swimming was swimming in a fifty
Speaker 2: meter pool, fast as you could from end to end.
Speaker 2: You know. So I can't ever say it's been written
Speaker 2: about me that I would have maybe could have made
Speaker 2: the sixtieth Olympic team. It's not true. I wasn't in
Speaker 2: that elite category. No, I wasn't. But I found out after,
Speaker 2: you know, high school ended and sprint swimming ended. I
Speaker 2: did my best to try to make it to the trials,
Speaker 2: not the team, just to the trials of the sixty Olympics.
Speaker 2: Didn't make it there, and I didn't know about marathon swimming.
Speaker 2: I went on to life. I was going to college,
Speaker 2: and then I went to graduate school and a friend
Speaker 2: of mine said, you know, you know, there's this sport
Speaker 2: called marathon swimming. I've seen you. I was just swimming
Speaker 2: labs for exercise in the Columbia University pool and he said,
Speaker 2: my god, you got this beautiful gliding perfect. So you
Speaker 2: know that the Earth is four fifth water? Do you
Speaker 2: know that people all over the world stand on shores
Speaker 2: and a gun goes off and they raise each other
Speaker 2: did the other side of the lake or the ocean
Speaker 2: or the river? And why don't you do that? It's
Speaker 2: a sport. Why aren't you in that sport? And so
Speaker 2: I joined that sport. But it wasn't a big dream
Speaker 2: of my little Now I will say that the Cuba
Speaker 2: swim was a big dream of mine. I was nine
Speaker 2: years old living in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. If those of
Speaker 2: you from you know, from down under, don't know, it's
Speaker 2: very close to Miami. And in nineteen fifty nine the
Speaker 2: Cuban Revolution happened. Fidel Castro came in to you know,
Speaker 2: some people say, to save Cuba and turn it from
Speaker 2: a third world country into a second world country so
Speaker 2: that people could have medicine and education. There are a
Speaker 2: whole bunch of other Cubans who will say he came
Speaker 2: in to be a despot and took over. So that's
Speaker 2: for all you to decide. But nevertheless, thousands of Cubans
Speaker 2: had twenty four hours to leave if they didn't want
Speaker 2: to live under the Fidel Castro regime. They came to
Speaker 2: my home town and overnight all my friends were Cuban.
Speaker 2: We were eating Cuban food, we were dancing salsa, and
Speaker 2: we were flying the Cuban flag. And I became, like
Speaker 2: many people, obsessed with the mystique of this forbidden island
Speaker 2: right off our shores. And one day I was on
Speaker 2: the beach. I was nine years old with my French mother,
Speaker 2: who spoke with a very thick accent. My father also
Speaker 2: spoke with a thick accent. So that's right there. That's
Speaker 2: a lot of fun at home when you can't understand
Speaker 2: either of your parents. And I said to my mom, Mom,
Speaker 2: I was already a little swimmer, you know, I said, Mom,
Speaker 2: I know Cuba's out there. Where is it? I can't
Speaker 2: see it? And she lived up Jones. She said, well
Speaker 2: is this way? No, no, no, it's well this way
Speaker 2: over there.
Speaker 5: Havana is just across the horizon rightdea as a metal fact,
Speaker 5: it is so close. You, you little champion swimmer, you
Speaker 5: you could almost swim there, swim.
Speaker 2: There, are you kidding? I have swim there and you
Speaker 2: can't even see it. So I wasn't yet a distant swimmer,
Speaker 2: but that that little nugget of vision of swimming all
Speaker 2: the way to Cuba. And then I did, you know,
Speaker 2: know later on in research that from ten years before that,
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty, the great marathon swimmers of the world, the
Speaker 2: grand many are from Australia, had tried to swim from
Speaker 2: Cuba to Florida. It became the Mount Everest of the
Speaker 2: EU's oceans. To a swimmer. There are a lot of
Speaker 2: great swims, you know in Tasmania and you know off
Speaker 2: Cairns and the English Channel and all over, but the
Speaker 2: Cuba swim has been called the Mount Everest of the earthsoceans.
Speaker 2: So that always, even before I became a marathon swimmer
Speaker 2: in my twenties, was always kind of somehow fluttering around
Speaker 2: back here.
Speaker 4: I love that so much.
Speaker 1: I feel like the dots have always been there and
Speaker 1: then just it took a little while for them or
Speaker 1: to connect together. But finally you did actually get in
Speaker 1: the water for this what more than fifty hours swim
Speaker 1: and it and five times, I mean, this is what
Speaker 1: blows my mind in a probably in a generation where
Speaker 1: we're a bit instagratuity focused, where we say like one attempt,
Speaker 1: maybe not even a full harder attempt if it doesn't go,
Speaker 1: If there's one adversity, we're like, oh I failed, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to try again.
Speaker 4: Like there's not the same resilience.
Speaker 1: Maybe mass generalization, but I think we're so fast paced
Speaker 1: that we kind of like try, you know, put out
Speaker 1: a toe in the water and go, oh, I wasn't
Speaker 1: very good at that.
Speaker 4: Move on. For someone to have.
Speaker 1: Done this five times and not know and not be
Speaker 1: guaranteed that the fifth time you're getting back for another grueling,
Speaker 1: fifty hour swim and to keep going how how I
Speaker 1: mean the fact that you're in front of me and
Speaker 1: have survived this blows my mind? What does it even
Speaker 1: feel like to swim that far but then to not
Speaker 1: make it and then to do it again to get
Speaker 1: your head in the game, Like I just you're like
Speaker 1: a goddess in my brain.
Speaker 2: Well, it means a lot to me that you appreciate,
Speaker 2: you know, how long the journey was, because you know,
Speaker 2: you could say that wouldn't that be enough if you
Speaker 2: just dived in the ocean and Havana and emerged on
Speaker 2: the Florida beach fifty two hours and fifty four minutes later.
Speaker 2: And by the way, you're never allowed to touch the boat,
Speaker 2: never allowed to grab onto the kayak. So if you stop,
Speaker 2: it's still on your own steam. You're treading water to
Speaker 2: take down a little bit of fuel and stuff. But
Speaker 2: you are in the water and moving for that entire
Speaker 2: fifty two hours fifty four minutes. But my team knows
Speaker 2: that that's the tip of the iceberg. Not only did
Speaker 2: we have four previous attempts, each one about as long
Speaker 2: as that one, fifty one hours this time, forty eight hours,
Speaker 2: another time, you know, going in the wrong direction, Sharks
Speaker 2: and jellyfish bothering us, and I never gave up. But
Speaker 2: mother nature was too big on the other four times.
Speaker 2: And as soon as we knew we couldn't make it,
Speaker 2: the navigator, Bonnie, my head handler and head of the expedition,
Speaker 2: the shark divers, all of the main crew, I come
Speaker 2: and tread water now near the boat. They tell me
Speaker 2: that we were far far off course, that the storm
Speaker 2: that went through blew us to the east and we
Speaker 2: couldn't make land. Well, then just like if you are
Speaker 2: on Mount Everest and one hundred mile an hour wind
Speaker 2: comes up, you don't You're not in a position of well,
Speaker 2: my will will overcome one hundred mile an hour wind.
Speaker 2: You save your life and you start going down and
Speaker 2: you say, it just wasn't our day. We're going to
Speaker 2: have to come back another day. So that's what happened
Speaker 2: on the four previous attempts, one way back in the
Speaker 2: seventies when I was young, in my twenties, and the
Speaker 2: other three attempts were later in my sixties when I
Speaker 2: went back to chase his dream again. But really even more,
Speaker 2: that's what our team knows. That's where Bonnie lived with
Speaker 2: me and John Bartlett and Navigator, all of the core team.
Speaker 2: Wasn't really those attempts because once you're on the attempt,
Speaker 2: you're adrenaline going, You're you're in the you're in the
Speaker 2: big dance. So there isn't a problem with your resolution
Speaker 2: and with your you know, your ability to overtake pain.
Speaker 2: But what about the training? And isn't this true of
Speaker 2: all athletes, I should say, of everybody you know. You
Speaker 2: see when Roger Federer has gone to the grass and
Speaker 2: Wimbledon and cried when he's won, and I'm so afraid
Speaker 2: we may never see him win again or at that
Speaker 2: stage of his career. But what an elegant, beautiful champion.
Speaker 2: But when he's gone to his knees on the grass
Speaker 2: of Wimbledon and cried, it isn't because of that match.
Speaker 2: It's because nobody knows, like him and his team, what
Speaker 2: he's gone through, how many hundreds of thousands of backhands
Speaker 2: down the line of you know, long grueling, you know
Speaker 2: practices well, marathons, swimming. I respect all sports. I'm not
Speaker 2: sure there's a more grueling sport in terms of lonely hours.
Speaker 2: You know, just you've got a tight cap on, you've
Speaker 2: got bogged over goggles. You don't hear anything, you don't
Speaker 2: see anything. So I would go out early in the season.
Speaker 2: If I were going to be doing the swim in
Speaker 2: the summer, i'd go out in November December, and in
Speaker 2: the Caribbean swim ten hours one day. I'm not in
Speaker 2: shape for that yet, I'm that night, I'm in the
Speaker 2: feeble position and the shower floor. I can't even get
Speaker 2: up for dinner. But the next day I get up
Speaker 2: and I do eleven hours and the next day, I
Speaker 2: get up and I do twelve hours and by the
Speaker 2: by the end of the training swim before heading to
Speaker 2: Key West and getting ready to sequester to get over
Speaker 2: to Cuba. When the weather looks right, we're doing sixteen,
Speaker 2: eighteen and twenty four hours swims. I mean, just you know,
Speaker 2: in even in the world of a marathon swimming, it's extreme.
Speaker 2: So that's honestly. When I reached that shore finally, of
Speaker 2: course there was a relief, there was a joy in
Speaker 2: the victory and to share it with my team. But honestly, Sarah,
Speaker 2: more than anything, what I was filled with was I
Speaker 2: never slept in if it was two am and we
Speaker 2: were doing a fourteen hour swim and I had to
Speaker 2: get up to start eating and stretching and get ready,
Speaker 2: I never said not today, I don't feel like it,
Speaker 2: you know. I never said, just give me one more
Speaker 2: hour sleep, let's let's start a little bit later. I
Speaker 2: got up at two am every single time. And that's
Speaker 2: what I remember. When I had that beach, I said,
Speaker 2: you did it. You refused to do it in any
Speaker 2: way less than what it would take to get across
Speaker 2: this ocean. So that was that was the fuel of
Speaker 2: it and the fire of it.
Speaker 4: Honestly, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: I think that's such an important reminder because people see
Speaker 1: these big titles CNN Diana Nayad swims from Cuba to
Speaker 1: Florida and it's like, oh wow, this woman just got
Speaker 1: in the water and swim all the way there and
Speaker 1: successfully made it. But it's like business or any great
Speaker 1: success that has those big titles and like glossy exterior,
Speaker 1: you know, people always laugh about. I had Samantha Whill's
Speaker 1: on the podcast recently, who made it from you know,
Speaker 1: a Bondai market making bead a jewelry on her dining
Speaker 1: table to on the Sex and the City Cars j LO.
Speaker 1: Like her jewelry was everywhere from this little Australian business.
Speaker 1: She's like, yeah, it took me twelve years to become
Speaker 1: an overnight success, Like that's what it got referred to as.
Speaker 1: And she's like, no, no, there is no overnight success.
Speaker 1: Just the narrative that gets pushed out there later is
Speaker 1: only the achievement, not what it took to get there.
Speaker 2: That's a great story hers and I think it's so
Speaker 2: important that young people hear you say this, because you know,
Speaker 2: the people dream first of all, if you see a
Speaker 2: little kid, they're watching the Olympics, So you know, you
Speaker 2: can say a six year old says, I'm going to
Speaker 2: be in the Olympics, and they're allowed to say that.
Speaker 2: They don't know, they don't know what it's going to take,
Speaker 2: but it you know, you use the word instant radical
Speaker 2: gratification just a little bit ago. There are young people
Speaker 2: now and you know, everything is quick by the Internet
Speaker 2: and social media and whatnot. Who say I'm going to
Speaker 2: be that jeweler, I'm going to make millions of dollars.
Speaker 2: I'm doing jewelry in my own own But they don't
Speaker 2: know what the discipline and the vision and the teamwork
Speaker 2: and you know, and the failures that are that are
Speaker 2: going to take to get there. And you know they're
Speaker 2: going to be disappointed when they find out that it
Speaker 2: does not come quickly. I can't think of any success
Speaker 2: story that truly was overnight. I can't think of one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they they don't exist. But that's also
Speaker 1: changed my relationship. I mean, even the podcast alone and
Speaker 1: hearing how much it does take ten twenty years, sometimes
Speaker 1: thirty forty fifty years even for some people to find
Speaker 1: their purpose in the iteration and the version that becomes
Speaker 1: the thing that they've waited for their whole life. Is
Speaker 1: that like, my relationship to failure has changed a lot
Speaker 1: as well, because I think you once would see it
Speaker 1: as a stop sign, but it's just a speed bump
Speaker 1: on the way to refining and tweaking to trying again.
Speaker 4: And that's why I love your story.
Speaker 1: So much, because you don't hear of many people who
Speaker 1: achieve something on the fifth attempt, because most people don't
Speaker 1: make the fifth attempt because it's five times more than
Speaker 1: they expect it's going to take them.
Speaker 2: Well, in this particular case, nobody even went for the
Speaker 2: second attempt. Most people who tried this whim there's so
Speaker 2: much danger out there and it's grueling. They just say
Speaker 2: never coming back. They're going to go on to some
Speaker 2: other dream. But you know, let's talk about the word
Speaker 2: failure for a second. I don't know. I think to
Speaker 2: sum it up is to go back to that whole
Speaker 2: Greek debate of are we involved in the destination only?
Speaker 2: And everything we do you know, it's not worthwhile unless
Speaker 2: we reach the final destination, or are we engaged in
Speaker 2: the journey and we are thirsty for all the life
Speaker 2: living and the life lessons that come of traveling that journey.
Speaker 2: And that's what all those you know, Greek stories were about.
Speaker 2: So yes, I was okay with people saying, oh, the
Speaker 2: third attempt and she failed. Oh the fourth attempt she
Speaker 2: failed again, because you know, if you want to just
Speaker 2: put it in kind of black and white terms, I
Speaker 2: didn't make it to the shore of Florida where I
Speaker 2: said I was aiming to go to. But the life
Speaker 2: experience of those four attempts when we didn't make it
Speaker 2: that were, so to speak, failures, were rich, rich journeys
Speaker 2: that all of us on that team we were involved
Speaker 2: with with deep friendship and trust in each other. We
Speaker 2: were on a steep learning curve each time every expedition
Speaker 2: on Mother Earth comes home, you know, with new scientific
Speaker 2: data and new tech elements to learn with new ways
Speaker 2: to tap into the human spirit and to work together
Speaker 2: as a team. So we were growing and we were adventuring.
Speaker 2: And there wasn't one person on that team who I
Speaker 2: don't think wouldn't have gone back for a sixth and
Speaker 2: a seventh. Not one of them ever paid a dime,
Speaker 2: no money. They were giving time off, taking time away
Speaker 2: from their families, their businesses, but they were involved in history.
Speaker 2: They were involved in the grandest adventure of their lives,
Speaker 2: you know, Sarah. I went to a school in New
Speaker 2: York City when it was over, the fifth successful one,
Speaker 2: and it was a great thing. There were eight hundred
Speaker 2: kids in the school and they decided to take their
Speaker 2: entire school year. The teachers did and using the Cuba
Speaker 2: swim as the basis for their studies. So whether it
Speaker 2: was biology or writing, or music or art, it was
Speaker 2: all about the Cuba swim. So I was so honored.
Speaker 2: And they had a big assembly and there was one
Speaker 2: kid from each grade, first grade through eighth grade who
Speaker 2: had been chosen to come up to take the microphone
Speaker 2: and asked me a question. The third grader was named Joaquin,
Speaker 2: and he was adorable. He had his shirt buttoned up
Speaker 2: like this and his hair was parted perfectly. And he
Speaker 2: came up and he said, well, miss nad my question
Speaker 2: is if you didn't make it on the fifth time,
Speaker 2: would you have tried again? And I said, Waki, do
Speaker 2: you know what the word moot means? Moot? And he
Speaker 2: said no. So an eighth grade girl came up and
Speaker 2: she gave the definition of moot is that that question
Speaker 2: is just it's not pertinent anymore because you did make it,
Speaker 2: so it's hard to imagine that you didn't make it.
Speaker 2: And so I explained to him what went and he said, okay, well,
Speaker 2: but still would you have tried again make it? I said, Joaqui,
Speaker 2: let's say yes. Let's say I would have tried to
Speaker 2: the end of my life to try to make that
Speaker 2: swim because I had it so deep, you know, in
Speaker 2: my I saw to make it.
Speaker 1: Across a quick break to share a recent yay maker
Speaker 1: of mine from the legendary team at GHD. You guys
Speaker 1: know I start to bang on a lot about the
Speaker 1: things that make life easier in some way, but you
Speaker 1: will thank.
Speaker 3: Me for this one. GHD has seen me.
Speaker 1: Through the dead Straight years, the Beachy Wave years, and
Speaker 1: now the Fundrivenur years.
Speaker 3: With the launch of their new GHD.
Speaker 1: Unplugged cordless styler that has portable power and performance. I
Speaker 1: have literally found myself driving from public toilet to public
Speaker 1: toilet before trying to find somewhere with a PowerPoint when
Speaker 1: I'm rushing between events and having a bad hair day.
Speaker 1: But luckily for everyone, those days are now over thanks
Speaker 1: to this travel friendly handbag Hairstyling Hero. That's a serious
Speaker 1: game changer. It's not only USBC chargeable and compact enough
Speaker 1: to fit in your handbag, it also has the same
Speaker 1: powerful performance of your regular GHD tools, maintaining that optimum
Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty five degrees for styling, so your
Speaker 1: hair is heavenly and healthy.
Speaker 3: You can discreetly touch up through the day for that
Speaker 3: good hair day confidence everywhere you go.
Speaker 1: So much Yeah, available in the best all on selected
Speaker 1: retailers orghdhair dot com. Another interesting facet of success, I
Speaker 1: think is that then sometimes because you don't know when
Speaker 1: the successful swim is going to happen, you don't really
Speaker 1: plan your life after that because you're sort of like, well,
Speaker 1: what if I have to just keep going back again?
Speaker 1: And I think it's quite an adjustment for a lot
Speaker 1: of people when they do achieve a milestone that was
Speaker 1: for so long such a big part of their life,
Speaker 1: because then you sort of have to readjust well, like
Speaker 1: now what I'm here?
Speaker 4: What do I do?
Speaker 1: But I love that you have turned it into so
Speaker 1: many amazing things that honor the planet and getting out
Speaker 1: in nature. Ever, Walk dot com, oceanscommit dot com are
Speaker 1: two wonderful new things that I mean you obviously representing
Speaker 1: in that amazing T shirt.
Speaker 3: I also love that.
Speaker 1: One of the questions I would have loved to ask
Speaker 1: you is, you know, when the movie comes out, who
Speaker 1: would you love in the world to play you in
Speaker 1: the movie? Except the movie is coming out and you
Speaker 1: already know who's playing you in the movie.
Speaker 3: And Nett Benning?
Speaker 2: How could I ever look that good? I mean Benning,
Speaker 2: one of the great actresses of our time, and Nett
Speaker 2: Benning has signed to play me in the upcoming movie.
Speaker 2: You know, it hasn't been shot yet, so when I
Speaker 2: say upcoming, you know, who knows if it'll be a
Speaker 2: year or two from now when it actually gets made.
Speaker 2: But the magic of it is as I tried four
Speaker 2: times before I made it, and Net Benning has been
Speaker 2: nominated four times for Best Astress Oscar. So wouldn't it
Speaker 2: be a little bit of magic fairy dust if she
Speaker 2: went on her fifth time the way I made it
Speaker 2: on my fifth time? So this is this is one
Speaker 2: great actress when you look at her body of work
Speaker 2: and she's really engaged and engrossed in my life and
Speaker 2: in the part. And they're casting Bonnie's part. Now it's
Speaker 2: a very big actress also, but we're not supposed to
Speaker 2: say who because the deal hasn't been made yet and
Speaker 2: so if it falls through, it's not right to mention her.
Speaker 2: But it's a big actress, and you know, it's not
Speaker 2: often as a matter of fact, I don't know the
Speaker 2: history of cinema. You don't see two women as the
Speaker 2: heroic leads. You know, women are always involved in what
Speaker 2: like Film and Louise, which is way before your time.
Speaker 2: But it was a big two actresses, you know, and
Speaker 2: it was a terrific movie. It was entertaining, but it
Speaker 2: was really about two women who men had done them
Speaker 2: wrong and this was their movie to get back at them.
Speaker 2: It was all about, you know, their relationship with the men.
Speaker 2: And in this movie, it's not a lesbian movie. Bonnie
Speaker 2: and I are you know, not in that relationship or
Speaker 2: not playing that role in this movie. It's just two
Speaker 2: women who happen to be doing something very strong and
Speaker 2: very you know, undeniable in terms of strength, and the
Speaker 2: men on our team so so strong themselves and knowledgeable,
Speaker 2: just fell right in with us, like we were the
Speaker 2: two leaders and we respected everybody, but the men, you know,
Speaker 2: we're listening to us and following what we wanted to
Speaker 2: do and the way we wanted to do it. And
Speaker 2: I think it's a It's an important message and one
Speaker 2: that isn't out there often. Well.
Speaker 1: I think with two previously Oscar winning directors taking on
Speaker 1: the film, I think there's a very high chance that
Speaker 1: they could be some magic in there for the magical
Speaker 1: number five for Annette.
Speaker 2: Jimmy Chin and his wife Chai directed the Oscar winning documentary.
Speaker 2: So it wasn't a feature, Oh that's right, and it
Speaker 2: was called Free Solo. And if you haven't seen it,
Speaker 2: I mean it's gripping. You know that guy Alex holds
Speaker 2: onto rocks with not his fingers but the first digit
Speaker 2: of his fingers a mile in the air. Forget about it.
Speaker 2: My heart was pounding. I thought you couldn't pay me
Speaker 2: a billion dollars to go up there and try that.
Speaker 2: These directors, Jimmy and Chai are smart. They're engrossed there
Speaker 2: and they're in love with nature and the majesty of
Speaker 2: the ocean is going to be one of the characters.
Speaker 2: And so yes, this is their first film working with actors,
Speaker 2: but they're super smart. They know what they're doing, and
Speaker 2: they actually they're in big demand right now for all
Speaker 2: kinds of feature films, but ours will be there first.
Speaker 2: So we've got a terrific team, the producers, the directors,
Speaker 2: and you know, I'll tell you a funny story. Is
Speaker 2: that a friend of mine in the movie business. I said, Gail,
Speaker 2: you know I'm something of an actor. I performed in
Speaker 2: an off Broadway show. I've been standing on stage for
Speaker 2: forty years singing.
Speaker 4: And playing the bugle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't not even to mention playing a pretty good bugle.
Speaker 2: So I've been acting on my story. I said, should
Speaker 2: I do a screen test to play myself? And she said, well,
Speaker 2: I only have one question for you. I said, what's that?
Speaker 2: She said, do you want anyone to see the movie?
Speaker 2: And I said, ah, okay, you don't have to beat
Speaker 2: me over the head with a shovel. I get it.
Speaker 2: She said, yeah, you want a movie star. That's what
Speaker 2: people go to movies for, to see movies stars. So
Speaker 2: naive of me the thing that I would be the
Speaker 2: star in this movie, I'd happily watching that.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, excited.
Speaker 1: I'm so so excited to say it in a movie
Speaker 1: for I'm how thrilling and something for us all to
Speaker 1: look forward to. And Buddy is also your partner in
Speaker 1: ev walk and oceans commit tell us about those beautiful initiatives.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, when we got done with the swim
Speaker 2: and that would be my last swim, people always say
Speaker 2: to me, what swim are you going to do next?
Speaker 2: I can't wait to follow it. Well, I was swimming
Speaker 2: all my life and this was the goal. This was
Speaker 2: the holy grail. There's nothing else I can't like look
Speaker 2: at the map and say, oh, maybe I'll swim over there,
Speaker 2: Maybe I'll swim over there. I'm done with that and
Speaker 2: I did everything there was to do. The dream is done.
Speaker 2: But there was that feeling I mentioned before, swimming over
Speaker 2: the curvature of the earth and walking, you know, the
Speaker 2: human being was meant to walk. You know, it's only
Speaker 2: been recently one hundred years ago, with the advent of
Speaker 2: the car, that we stopped being the big planet walkers
Speaker 2: that we were meant to be. And a lot of
Speaker 2: people think that a lot of our immune diseases and
Speaker 2: whatnot have come about because we're not walkers anymore. We
Speaker 2: they say, sitting is the new smoking. So yes, there
Speaker 2: are people clearly who are extreme and they're out playing
Speaker 2: rugby and they're running ultra marathons. Well that's a whole
Speaker 2: different small group, and pay for them. But the average person,
Speaker 2: you know, every day could get out and walk a
Speaker 2: lousy little mile. Just walk. So Bonnie and I started
Speaker 2: this initiative called Everwalk, and we mean ever by every day,
Speaker 2: every every day for the rest of your life. Everybody,
Speaker 2: children up to old old people. Just get out and walk.
Speaker 2: Get to know your neighbors, give a wave, get to
Speaker 2: know your you know the plants and the trees and
Speaker 2: the lending libraries in your neighborhood. Go walk and get
Speaker 2: your newspaper instead of getting in your car and driving everywhere.
Speaker 2: So you know, it's a pretty big goal to take
Speaker 2: America a car culture and turn it into a walking culture.
Speaker 2: But that's our goal is to get as many people
Speaker 2: as we can, not just here. We have Aussies walking
Speaker 2: with us at everwalk dot com, an app Everwalk. Well,
Speaker 2: Ousi's are starting to join us. We have a nature
Speaker 2: club and a photography club and a book club and
Speaker 2: all that. And under Everwalk there's a new initiative called
Speaker 2: oceans Commit and thank you for leading that for me,
Speaker 2: Oceanscommit dot com. And it's because of my immersion, my
Speaker 2: my falling in love with this blue planet. I became
Speaker 2: an awe of it. And look at what's happened, look
Speaker 2: at the plastic pollution of our magnificent seas, and we
Speaker 2: can do something about it. You don't have to be
Speaker 2: an activist and end your life for it, but you
Speaker 2: could reduce single use plastic. Every one of us could.
Speaker 2: It's been two years now since I used a little
Speaker 2: small plastic water model. I can put water in a
Speaker 2: in some other kind of you know, container and never
Speaker 2: use that plast So am I completely dedicating my life
Speaker 2: to no plastic at all? No, it's not easy to do.
Speaker 2: I have garbage bags still that I put out on
Speaker 2: the street once a week from my own garbage butt.
Speaker 2: I'm doing my little part. And Oceans Commit. We just
Speaker 2: want people to go on there and commit to reducing
Speaker 2: single use plastic in your lives, and we will do
Speaker 2: walking events that promote, you know, the reduction of single
Speaker 2: use plastic. So ever, Walk and Oceans Commit are tethered together.
Speaker 1: Now, I was rating you actually had a big series
Speaker 1: of launch events. I think it was that obviously just
Speaker 1: before the pandemic. Were about to go ahead and then
Speaker 1: had to close down. But it's exciting that when things
Speaker 1: open up again, you'll be able to do those.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we will. And Bonnie and I are going to
Speaker 2: Egypt in early November. There's a wonderful historic swim there
Speaker 2: called the Swim of the Pharaohs, so they invited me
Speaker 2: and Bonnie to be part of it. It's on the
Speaker 2: Red Sea, turquoise water. It's gorgeous, So we're going to
Speaker 2: sort of be the big celebrity of the event. But
Speaker 2: Bonnie and I are going to do something there that
Speaker 2: day called the Walk of the Pharaohs. Yeah, and you
Speaker 2: can find it on everwalk dot com and oceans. Commit
Speaker 2: to join us virtually from wherever you are.
Speaker 4: Oh, we will absolutely do that scene.
Speaker 1: You know, I was about to get married seven days
Speaker 1: after we were on Necker, so we still haven't had
Speaker 1: our honeymoon because obviously COVID happened and it was meant
Speaker 1: to be in Egypt, so I will follow along. I
Speaker 1: just think it's the most mystical, beautiful place. And we've
Speaker 1: done the Middle East a couple of times, and every
Speaker 1: time Egypt has been a red zone to too much
Speaker 1: Intermali for Australians to go in there. So we've missed
Speaker 1: it every time we've done Turkey, Jordan, Israel like all
Speaker 1: so close around the region and have never made it
Speaker 1: four times four times, so maybe the lucky fifth.
Speaker 2: Time that's going to be your time.
Speaker 1: Well, just a couple of quick questions to wrap up.
Speaker 1: One of the big premises of this podcast is the
Speaker 1: idea of playta and either you love your job, but
Speaker 1: you need distance because I think even if we love
Speaker 1: our job, it can become all consuming and you need
Speaker 1: you need to get you know, refreshed, you need to rejuvenate,
Speaker 1: you need clarity, you needed like to have a let
Speaker 1: your brain have a break. Or if you don't love
Speaker 1: your job, ins important to find some kind of play
Speaker 1: or pleasure or joy that isn't productive. That's the waste
Speaker 1: of time that you allow yourself to indulge in. That's
Speaker 1: just for pure joy. Because I think even if you
Speaker 1: love your job, you never want to get to the
Speaker 1: end of your life and think, Wow, I worked and
Speaker 1: I died and I really wish that I had less fun.
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone has wished that they had a
Speaker 1: less good time while that were here. So outside of
Speaker 1: work and speaking gigs and podcasts and writing and speaking,
Speaker 1: you know, what are the things you do just for
Speaker 1: your joy?
Speaker 2: You know I mentioned before my love of the ocean,
Speaker 2: and you know, and I know most many Aussies live
Speaker 2: along the coast. I think sixty five percent of all
Speaker 2: the population of the world live on a coast somewhere.
Speaker 2: But even if you don't, you know you live near
Speaker 2: a beautiful lake or on a river. The waters of
Speaker 2: the world, which make us the blue planet we are,
Speaker 2: are a source of inspiration and peace and joy. So
Speaker 2: sometimes at midnight, of course Teddy's no longer with me,
Speaker 2: but sometimes at midnight Bonnie and I have taken our
Speaker 2: dogs down to the ocean. Yes, it's part to get
Speaker 2: them exercise, but it's mostly for us to hear that
Speaker 2: sound of the waves rolling in. To look out at
Speaker 2: the horizon. I think it's important not to just be
Speaker 2: looking at a screen that's right up against you. As
Speaker 2: part of whatever walk is to get out, look up
Speaker 2: at the blue sky, look at the beautiful trees around you.
Speaker 2: Even if you don't see the ocean, and you can
Speaker 2: really see to all the way to the horizon, you
Speaker 2: can look farther than the walls of your home. So
Speaker 2: I think that one of the joys that I get
Speaker 2: is every day I'm either out walking or I get
Speaker 2: to the ocean and I have a vision that's farther
Speaker 2: than the computer screen and the walls of my home.
Speaker 2: You know, it sort of expands. It's a horizon that
Speaker 2: expands my horizons.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the things I do, even though it's
Speaker 1: winter and being cold and wet at two of my
Speaker 1: least favorite things.
Speaker 3: One of my dear friends.
Speaker 1: Who's just got such a zest for life, has created
Speaker 1: a little swim club where we go and watch the
Speaker 1: sunset in the water at the beach. And it's it's
Speaker 1: the middle of winter here, it is horrifying. But the water,
Speaker 1: even though it's horribly cold, it's like buttery smooth. And
Speaker 1: watching a winter sunrise, there's something special. There's more pink.
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but I was in
Speaker 1: the water yesterday thinking about this interview and just thinking,
Speaker 1: how the fuck did she spend fifty hours in water
Speaker 1: much colder and much less smooth than this. I will
Speaker 1: never you say you're not special, but I refuse to
Speaker 1: believe that.
Speaker 2: Thank you, sir.
Speaker 4: Very last question what's your favorite quote?
Speaker 2: You know, so many people have said, you know, seize
Speaker 2: the day, and I even we started to come full
Speaker 2: circle in our conversation today. I had said in the beginning,
Speaker 2: I want to go to bed every night saying no
Speaker 2: regrets on that day, so that when I come to
Speaker 2: the final day of my life, I can look back.
Speaker 2: And doesn't mean you wouldn't have done things differently, but
Speaker 2: if you tried, if you were summoning the best that's
Speaker 2: within you, then you can you can close your eyes
Speaker 2: for that final time with no regrets. Well, people have
Speaker 2: said in different ways, tempest, future, you know all that stuff.
Speaker 2: But I was in Rwanda. Bonnie and I went to
Speaker 2: get a chance to climb with the gorillas a few
Speaker 2: years ago, and we had a wonderful young man who
Speaker 2: was a guide. He was a teenager. He's nineteen years old,
Speaker 2: but he was super smart and caring and he had
Speaker 2: all perspective about life, and he was so curious about
Speaker 2: our lives and what life was like outside of Rwanda.
Speaker 2: We said to him, what do you want to do?
Speaker 2: You know, if you weren't a guide here, if you're
Speaker 2: going to do this for the next sixty years, and
Speaker 2: do this for all your life or are there other
Speaker 2: things you want to do? What do you want to
Speaker 2: do in the future? And he said no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: tomorrow is not ours. And I thought, same thing as
Speaker 2: saying seize the day or seize the age, the same thing,
Speaker 2: but it was such a beautiful twist on English words.
Speaker 2: Tomorrow is not ours. So it's fine a dream. We
Speaker 2: need to look forward and to plan and to envision
Speaker 2: what we've got. But the truth is that tomorrow isn't yours.
Speaker 2: Today is yours. Today is the day you're living and
Speaker 2: you'll never get to live it again. So don't waste
Speaker 2: your time spending too much time thinking about yesterday, even
Speaker 2: though you need to break it down a little bit,
Speaker 2: figure out your mistakes, or remember your teddy dog so
Speaker 2: that the memories are with you, you know. Spend a
Speaker 2: little time in the future so you're sort of excited you,
Speaker 2: but really live today, seize the day, seize the ya,
Speaker 2: and say to yourself, tomorrow it is not ours. So
Speaker 2: I just I love that expression.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, And what a full circle moment. Also,
Speaker 1: my big revelation that changed sees the day in my
Speaker 1: mind to seize the a also happened in Rwanda because
Speaker 1: I how weird. I went when I was still a
Speaker 1: corporate lawyer and on a charitable expedition, and we'd had
Speaker 1: all this cultural training about the genocide, and I had
Speaker 1: all these expectations about what challenges psychologically I would face
Speaker 1: to embrace this new culture and to do the right
Speaker 1: thing by them, And the biggest shock to me was
Speaker 1: like reverse happiness culture shock. I went in thinking, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm first, well, like, how am I going to, you know,
Speaker 1: beat this delicate situation? And I saw, instead of feeling
Speaker 1: intense gratitude for what we have, which of course is
Speaker 1: one level of thing, the opposite that they were far happier,
Speaker 1: with very little, unburdened joy, breaking into song, children playing
Speaker 1: with a leaf for twelve hours, then us back home
Speaker 1: having all these things and just wanting more and being
Speaker 1: consumed by more. And it just was the first time
Speaker 1: I'd separated success and happiness. I was like, they're not
Speaker 1: the same, they don't equal each other. They're totally different pursuits.
Speaker 1: But I've been conflating them as one, and then wondering
Speaker 1: why I've got this deep seated anxiety, wondering what I'm
Speaker 1: doing and what my purpose is making other people wealthy
Speaker 1: and having no legacy. It was and it was in Rwanda.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my god, that's such a you know, incredible bond.
Speaker 2: You know that you and I can add together. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm not saying a lot of people, but people interview
Speaker 2: me or what i'd say, you're oh, you're successful and everything.
Speaker 2: You're so driven and so. And the truth is, I'm
Speaker 2: very clear about enjoying each day, about finding laughter and
Speaker 2: feeling love as much as I am about achieving things
Speaker 2: and being the best I can be. You know, we
Speaker 2: need to live a multi layered life to have a
Speaker 2: successful life. And a lot of people of great success
Speaker 2: I know are absolutely miserable. They haven't known love, they
Speaker 2: don't know much laughter, even though they won all the
Speaker 2: awards and got all the money. And I've seen plenty
Speaker 2: of that, and I've seen poor people like you have
Speaker 2: all around the world. There are people, many actually tribes
Speaker 2: people in Kenya, in both the Kakuu and the Masai tribe,
Speaker 2: who get educated. They go to Nairobi, they go to
Speaker 2: London afterwards and they study, they go back to live
Speaker 2: the tribal life. Partly to help that tribe with medicine
Speaker 2: and other things, but partly because they enjoy life more
Speaker 2: living like that rather than in the penthouse in London.
Speaker 2: There are stories that way, you.
Speaker 1: Know, And I also love One of my fondest memories
Speaker 1: is you talked about Selsa and loving a dance that
Speaker 1: on Necka. You were always one of the last on
Speaker 1: the dance floor. That made me so happy. Like you're
Speaker 1: like sensible, me needs to go and get an early
Speaker 1: night and like getting up early, and you were on
Speaker 1: a different island.
Speaker 4: But you're like, but I gotta stay in dance. I
Speaker 4: gotta stay in dance.
Speaker 2: My talents one jeep, I just I whistled. Did you
Speaker 2: know that whistling is one of my great talents?
Speaker 3: I did not know that.
Speaker 2: Okay, this is a bit of lion or Richie. Hello,
Speaker 2: do you know that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, of course.
Speaker 2: This is a bit of a.
Speaker 4: Wow Sarah, my god.
Speaker 2: You need to put that on.
Speaker 4: You need to teach Annett Benning to whistle now.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I think she's got plenty to do just
Speaker 2: becoming a swim.
Speaker 1: Oh well, thank you so so much for your time.
Speaker 1: I really do appreciate it so much. I mean, I
Speaker 1: can't believe you've been on Hillary Clinton's podcast and mine.
Speaker 4: I mean they're the same basically.
Speaker 2: Hear, but thank you, thank you for inviting me your
Speaker 2: terrific interview. You've done a great deal in life at
Speaker 2: your young age, and I just I look forward to
Speaker 2: seeing your journey as you move forward. Sarah.
Speaker 1: Oh, well, you've been a very big part of it,
Speaker 1: and I appreciate it so much.
Speaker 2: Maybe I'll see in Egypt one.
Speaker 4: Day, yes, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Oh well, I don't know about you, but if I
Speaker 1: ever need to kick up the butt, I just think
Speaker 1: about this woman making her way through darkness and.
Speaker 3: Bitter cold with jellyfish all over her face.
Speaker 1: But continuing on five times, and to see what she's
Speaker 1: doing now with everwalk and Ocean's commit is simply amazing.
Speaker 1: Links to both her in the show notes. Hopefully some
Speaker 1: of the neighborhood can get involved, as well as links
Speaker 1: to her various pages. I was so very lucky to
Speaker 1: be able to steal some of Diana's time away for
Speaker 1: the neighborhood, so please do. If you enjoyed listening along,
Speaker 1: share the episode with any takeaways or AHA moments, tagging
Speaker 1: at Diana and Ayah to.
Speaker 3: Shower her with love.
Speaker 1: Hope you are all having a wonderful weak and is
Speaker 1: seizing ju Ya.