Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mer podcast. Muma Mer acknowledges the
Speaker 1: traditional owners of the land and waters.
Speaker 2: This podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 1: The relationship Guy, an elusive rare breed in this day
Speaker 1: and age. The guy who loves being someone's person, who
Speaker 1: wants and enjoys the simplicity and comfort of being with
Speaker 1: a partner, no questioning if he likes you, no wondering
Speaker 1: how long you should wait to text, no drama.
Speaker 3: Do things like go to the markets on the weekend
Speaker 3: and go into the beach. And I had a couple
Speaker 3: of dogs, being able to take them to the park
Speaker 3: and kind of just do things.
Speaker 2: That were adult.
Speaker 3: I felt happy, and I also felt secure. I just
Speaker 3: felt like it was easy.
Speaker 1: And once you're at this level of comfort, it's all
Speaker 1: smooth sailing. Here's the relationship guy, after all, commitment and
Speaker 1: stability is his whole thing.
Speaker 3: I got this scream saying Sarah, and I ran down
Speaker 3: to her office and the look that she had on
Speaker 3: her face was just this look of someone who just
Speaker 3: felt super sorry for me, And I was like, what
Speaker 3: is it? And she just said, I'm so sorry, I'm Georgia.
Speaker 1: Love and this is everyone has an eggs come with
Speaker 1: me as we dive into a collection of unconventional stories
Speaker 1: about relationships past through the eyes and the hearts of
Speaker 1: the very people who lived them. Meet Sarah at thirty two.
Speaker 1: She was living a great life. She had a few relationships,
Speaker 1: a couple of job changes, had moved to a new city,
Speaker 1: and was really finding her feet.
Speaker 3: I was actually a bit of a transformative period of
Speaker 3: my life.
Speaker 2: I was early thirties.
Speaker 3: I had just been kicking some career goals, buying into
Speaker 3: the business that I worked for, just bought my first property,
Speaker 3: had my dogs, great group of friends, and one thing
Speaker 3: that was missing was having someone.
Speaker 2: To share it with.
Speaker 3: I was a bit past the partying days and the
Speaker 3: days of meeting the boy at the pub, and I
Speaker 3: did turn to online dating.
Speaker 1: And that's where she met Jeff.
Speaker 3: He was probably not someone I necessarily would have swiped
Speaker 3: on five years earlier, but he didn't have the typical
Speaker 3: fish photos and things on his profile. He was a
Speaker 3: teacher and he played sport, and you know, he kind
Speaker 3: of seemed to do things that I liked to do
Speaker 3: in his profile. So it did catch my attention for
Speaker 3: different reasons of just the kind of physical appearance. And
Speaker 3: that's what I was looking for was something a bit
Speaker 3: more long term rather than just you know, someone that
Speaker 3: you go on a couple of dates with and he
Speaker 3: looks like hot candy. Yeah, And the conversation was just
Speaker 3: quite free flowing. On my bio at the time. It
Speaker 3: was someone who likes to eat my food, play with
Speaker 3: my dogs, and make me laugh. And he said I
Speaker 3: can tickle those three boxes. First face to face was
Speaker 3: probably a week afterwards, so I think we started to
Speaker 3: talking on the Sunday, and then the following Sunday he
Speaker 3: asked if I would like to go on a date.
Speaker 3: Just said we're something casual and he would pick me up.
Speaker 3: He picked me up and we went down to watch
Speaker 3: the sunset. He made a picnic cheese board and got
Speaker 3: a bottle of wine and we sat there and watched
Speaker 3: the sunset and talked and got to know each other.
Speaker 3: Then he dropped me home, gave me a kiss good night,
Speaker 3: and I kind of put it up there as one
Speaker 3: of those perfect first dates, you know, knocking on the
Speaker 3: door and then coming and opening car door, taking it
Speaker 3: down there, me not having to worry about anything. Also,
Speaker 3: I guess in terms of when we were talking there
Speaker 3: was actually free following conversation. It wasn't trying to you know,
Speaker 3: you don't know someone, but he took points of what
Speaker 3: we had talked about the week before and kind of
Speaker 3: made it into conversations so that we we had comedy
Speaker 3: interest and it wasn't just that awkward first date. So
Speaker 3: for me, I thought that, you know, that's it was
Speaker 3: a bit more, you know, a bit more substance to it.
Speaker 1: Substance was exactly what Sarah at this stage of her life,
Speaker 1: especially having just come out of a pretty recent big heartbreak.
Speaker 3: I did have a partner up here for a couple
Speaker 3: of years, and you know, we lived together and I
Speaker 3: thought that we would be going on to get married
Speaker 3: and have kids. And we broke up quite suddenly, and
Speaker 3: he said he'd fallen out of love, and you can't
Speaker 3: change fit someone's mind on that, unfortunately. So after that
Speaker 3: all happened, that's when some other things I really put
Speaker 3: my mind to with in terms of work and buying
Speaker 3: my first property and whatnot. So I you know, going, okay,
Speaker 3: well I'm going to get those things done. And it
Speaker 3: was probably you know, a year or so after that. Definitely,
Speaker 3: you know, had a bit of dating in between, but
Speaker 3: nothing of any substance. So I kind of got myself
Speaker 3: to the point where I was feeling really good, and
Speaker 3: then I could attract something good as well, just at
Speaker 3: that stage of your life where you're a bit over
Speaker 3: mucking around and you know, you don't know if you're
Speaker 3: deciding to have kids or not deciding to have kids,
Speaker 3: but those things you're looking for probably more of a
Speaker 3: future partner than than just of mate for a.
Speaker 1: While, and the the very first day, Jeff seemed like
Speaker 1: just that kind of guy.
Speaker 3: As soon as he dropped me home, we were talking
Speaker 3: more again. He asked if he could cook me dinner
Speaker 3: on the Tuesday at his house. He owned a property
Speaker 3: about ten minutes from my house. His was a bit
Speaker 3: of a different situation. He did have housemtes, but it
Speaker 3: was an elevated house, so he had the downstairs and
Speaker 3: he had housemates upstairs, so we still had privacy. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I went out to his again. He listened to what
Speaker 3: we talked about, and he cooked me a steak and
Speaker 3: we had a steak and a bottle of wine. I
Speaker 3: ended up staying there that night, and you know, we
Speaker 3: just got along and talked and it was just like
Speaker 3: we almost to a degree fell into a relationship before
Speaker 3: it even started. So the next I guess month after that,
Speaker 3: it was we were doing things with friends, and we
Speaker 3: essentially were a couple basically straight away, so spending three
Speaker 3: or four nights a week together. But also I think
Speaker 3: it could have been six or seven, but I was
Speaker 3: trying to maintain independence and you know, not getting into
Speaker 3: something too quickly. But it was quite easy to kind
Speaker 3: of fall into that bubble.
Speaker 1: It made sense from Jeff's side too. He was very
Speaker 1: much the relationship guy.
Speaker 3: He had a partner from high school, ten year relationship
Speaker 3: and they had only separated about a year before. She
Speaker 3: obviously lived there with him, and so there was a
Speaker 3: couple of photos of them still up in the wall,
Speaker 3: and I did ask him and I went, I actually
Speaker 3: had a look at it, and he goes, yeah, we're
Speaker 3: still friendly, and he's like, I do need to take
Speaker 3: them down. The second bedroom had some boxes and stuff
Speaker 3: in it, and he said that he was planning on
Speaker 3: the main school holidays to take that stuff back down
Speaker 3: south to her, And I thought, you know, what a
Speaker 3: green flag that he can actually still have a positive
Speaker 3: relationship with his ex in the fact that you know,
Speaker 3: he's willing to take her stuff to her and they
Speaker 3: don't have this. I hate my ex partner situation, so
Speaker 3: I thought it was showing maturity, because ten years of
Speaker 3: your life with someone is a long time to turn
Speaker 3: around and hate them. So in the past I have
Speaker 3: had some people cheat on me before, and normally I
Speaker 3: have that kind of bit of a jealousy streak to me.
Speaker 3: But this didn't even need to worry because he was
Speaker 3: open and upfront about the whole thing. So I was
Speaker 3: actually quite calmed by it, and I thought it was
Speaker 3: quite mature. I didn't know too much about her. I'd
Speaker 3: seen photos from her. I know that they used to
Speaker 3: work together, so that was the only really bit of information.
Speaker 3: He never bagged her out, so I never really went
Speaker 3: into it. I appreciated the fact he didn't talk down
Speaker 3: about her, but the only things I knew was really
Speaker 3: basic facts.
Speaker 1: Another green flag he didn't use social media.
Speaker 3: He was a teacher and he was sick of students
Speaker 3: trying to get onto social media and whatnot, and it
Speaker 3: was just a waste of his time that he could
Speaker 3: be spending with friends or doing other things. So he
Speaker 3: used to have it and then he deactivated it. He
Speaker 3: did have an Instagram that didn't have any photos from
Speaker 3: like the last five years, and he actually did follow
Speaker 3: me on his Instagram, but there was nothing on his
Speaker 3: so you know, it was like basically a page that
Speaker 3: was defunct. But yeah, again, I was like, oh, look
Speaker 3: there's someone that doesn't, you know, need to post selfies
Speaker 3: every day or tell me everything that they're doing. Again,
Speaker 3: even with messages and things like that. I'm very busy
Speaker 3: at my job and I don't have the time to
Speaker 3: be texting all day and he was the same. So
Speaker 3: it was kind of mature in that sense that you
Speaker 3: were not sitting around holding your breath. When you could talk,
Speaker 3: you could talk, and when you couldn't, you knew someone
Speaker 3: would get back to you.
Speaker 1: The P word is strong, but Sarah really felt this
Speaker 1: guy and their first few months together, we're pretty close
Speaker 1: to perfect.
Speaker 3: So well Bliss, I was thinking, I don't understand how
Speaker 3: everything can be so easy. I really was waiting for
Speaker 3: something to happen, but it just wasn't. And every time
Speaker 3: that we were getting closer and like it just seemed
Speaker 3: like it was going to go further on. He wanted
Speaker 3: me to you know, I met his assistant principal. He
Speaker 3: said his family was coming up and they wanted to
Speaker 3: meet me, and then he dropped the love bomb. We
Speaker 3: were lying in bed one night and we were just
Speaker 3: talking and he goes, you know, I know this is early,
Speaker 3: but I've absolutely fallen head over heels in love with you.
Speaker 3: And although I promised myself I wouldn't say that for
Speaker 3: a very long time, I reciprocated. I felt good. It
Speaker 3: was one of those things where I was like, Oh,
Speaker 3: what's going to go wrong? But then I reminded myself
Speaker 3: that you don't have to think of the worst things
Speaker 3: every time, and you can just go with it. And
Speaker 3: I remember talking to friends with it and they're like, oh,
Speaker 3: this is awesome. You deserve this. Most of my friends
Speaker 3: at the time were all in quite healthy long term
Speaker 3: relationships as well, so although he didn't hang out with
Speaker 3: them all the time because he did play sport on
Speaker 3: the weekend, so a lot of the time when we
Speaker 3: were doing social things, he would only just pop in
Speaker 3: at the end because he was at the clubrooms and
Speaker 3: things like that, which to me was fine because I
Speaker 3: like my girls, so it doesn't need to fit, you know,
Speaker 3: a couple things in my life, so that didn't worry
Speaker 3: me whatsoever. We were and played tennis and stuff with
Speaker 3: his friends. I went to the races with his colleagues
Speaker 3: and whatnot. So yeah, we definitely integrated into the friends
Speaker 3: as quickly as possible. Would go do things like go
Speaker 3: to the markets on the weekend and go into the beach.
Speaker 3: And he loved my dogs, and that was something that
Speaker 3: was really important to me, you know, being able to
Speaker 3: take them to the park and kind of just do
Speaker 3: things that were adult. I guess I felt happy, and
Speaker 3: I also felt secure. I just felt like it was easy.
Speaker 3: I didn't have to try or put anything on. It
Speaker 3: was just, you know, you could be yourself. You could
Speaker 3: be in your tracks with no makeup on, and everything
Speaker 3: was good. So it was just nice to feel comfortable
Speaker 3: without having to kind of go through that bit of
Speaker 3: the dating stage where you're just really trying to impress everyone.
Speaker 3: We'd be spending i'd say four or five nights together
Speaker 3: a week at the beginning, and yeah, look was kind
Speaker 3: of between. I liked him to come to my house
Speaker 3: mainly because I had the puppies there, but there would
Speaker 3: be some nights that I would go out there when
Speaker 3: he wanted to cook, so it would be a rain
Speaker 3: like around four nights a week, which to me, I
Speaker 3: needed some time to do other things as well. And
Speaker 3: he used to hop up and go for a run
Speaker 3: every morning at five, so if I didn't want to
Speaker 3: wake up at five, he could stay at home.
Speaker 1: The relationship went on like this for around seven months,
Speaker 1: Sarah and Jeff integrating into each other's lives more and
Speaker 1: more and growing happier by the day. The first time
Speaker 1: they were going to spend more than a couple of
Speaker 1: nights apart was when the summer holidays rolled around and
Speaker 1: Jeff was doing a big drive down south to where
Speaker 1: he used to live with his family and his ex girlfriend.
Speaker 3: He was going to be gone for a couple of
Speaker 3: weeks because the drive takes quite some time, and then
Speaker 3: he needed to catch up with everyone, and then he
Speaker 3: was going to come back up, so that was fine.
Speaker 3: He even said to me, did you want to come?
Speaker 3: But I had work commitments, which I know he knew
Speaker 3: that I had, and so you know, it was a
Speaker 3: no go and do thing, and I was when you're back,
Speaker 3: So that two weeks was normal. We spoke on the
Speaker 3: phone every day. Again, we didn't text all that much,
Speaker 3: but we never did, so that was just normal. I
Speaker 3: would have a good morning message from him and a
Speaker 3: call at night, just in between his plans. He was
Speaker 3: the one that was down doing family stuff, so I
Speaker 3: left that be. I did know the day that he
Speaker 3: was going to see his ex, and he did tell
Speaker 3: me that, and I didn't hear from him much that day,
Speaker 3: but I kind of resonated on the fact that, you know,
Speaker 3: might have been a bit of an emotive day, and
Speaker 3: I'd hear from him when he could. I did hear
Speaker 3: from him that night, and if thick near text and
Speaker 3: said I'll talk to you tomorrow. Then he was due
Speaker 3: to come back home, so he had a few days
Speaker 3: of travel, and when he was getting close, it was
Speaker 3: falling on a weekend, which was great because I was like, Okay, well,
Speaker 3: I'll get to see you that night. Then I got
Speaker 3: closer to getting there and he said that he had
Speaker 3: someone on the side of the road that had just
Speaker 3: had a car accident and that they flipped over their
Speaker 3: car and he was going to have to put them
Speaker 3: in his car and get them back. I was like
Speaker 3: worried for him, and obviously worry for whoever this was,
Speaker 3: but it was like, yeah, do what you need to do.
Speaker 3: He told me, go and catch up with your friends
Speaker 3: and i'll let you know how I'm traveling later. But
Speaker 3: it's been a big day and I might just.
Speaker 2: Go to bed.
Speaker 3: I was really disappointed because it was like, well, we
Speaker 3: don't need to do anything.
Speaker 2: I'll just come over.
Speaker 3: He'd normally be keen to see me, so it was
Speaker 3: unusual and it felt like a bit of a sting.
Speaker 3: But I spoke to friends about it at the time,
Speaker 3: and whilst pouring me margaritas, said, don't worry about it,
Speaker 3: he's just tired. You wouldn't even have a good time anyway.
Speaker 3: Just seemed tomorrow, and so that's what happened. I went
Speaker 3: and spent the night with the girls. He told me
Speaker 3: when he got home, and then he said he would
Speaker 3: come over in the morning and bring me breakfast. The
Speaker 3: next morning, he came over to my house with breakfast
Speaker 3: from the markets and we sat and had a chat.
Speaker 3: He was a bit stand offish, it wasn't his usual self,
Speaker 3: but didn't really have too much to say. He said
Speaker 3: his troop was fine. I didn't pry about him seeing
Speaker 3: his ex girlfriend. I thought he can do that in time,
Speaker 3: and we had breakfast, took the dogs for a walk,
Speaker 3: and then he said that he needed to go and
Speaker 3: get some school work done because school went back the
Speaker 3: next day and he needed to make sure everything was
Speaker 3: done from terms of lesson plans and school clothes and
Speaker 3: things like that. So he went back Horome and I
Speaker 3: said that we would catch up the next night. So
Speaker 3: Monday night comes around after school and he come over.
Speaker 3: I was cooking up dinner in the kitchen and again
Speaker 3: he was just sitting on the couch and he was
Speaker 3: just really somber, and I turned around and said to him,
Speaker 3: what's wrong. He was like, oh, I do need to
Speaker 3: talk to you about something. My heart kind of stopped
Speaker 3: for a second, and I went into a bit of
Speaker 3: a what's going on? Because I could feel it the
Speaker 3: day before, but he left the situation before it was
Speaker 3: pressed any further. So, and even when he come in,
Speaker 3: I could just feel the energy switch like it was
Speaker 3: gone from electric to quite stand offish, so it didn't
Speaker 3: take a mind rate, and I said, well, I knew
Speaker 3: what something's going on, Like, tell me what's going on? Anyway,
Speaker 3: he sat there for about five minutes of literally not
Speaker 3: saying a word, and I was like, just come out
Speaker 3: with it, and then he kind of started welling up
Speaker 3: with tears and then said, I went to see my
Speaker 3: ex girlfriend and when I went into the property, she
Speaker 3: was there and she had a baby, and she said
Speaker 3: it was mine. I don't know what I said, actually,
Speaker 3: I kind of lost a little bit of a train
Speaker 3: of thought in that moment and just said, you know,
Speaker 3: what do you mean? And he goes, it's not it's
Speaker 3: not mine, but she's saying it is, and now I'm
Speaker 3: going to have to.
Speaker 2: Deal with it.
Speaker 3: He said that she was going to be coming up
Speaker 3: and she needed assistance with the baby, and she was
Speaker 3: going to be coming up just to till they sorted
Speaker 3: things out. And he also said that she was going
Speaker 3: to be staying in the property in the second room there,
Speaker 3: so just until they kind of knew how things were
Speaker 3: going to unfold. I was scattered, and I was also protective,
Speaker 3: so I was angry for him because he was in
Speaker 3: tears and he's saying it's not his to me. I
Speaker 3: couldn't work it out how it could be his, because
Speaker 3: I'd been seeing him for a certain amount of time
Speaker 3: and the numbers didn't number, so I was just trying
Speaker 3: to figure it out. And he told me that the
Speaker 3: baby looked like it was like three months, and so
Speaker 3: it just wasn't really making too much sense to me.
Speaker 3: But at the time, I just like, Okay, well we
Speaker 3: need to tackle this, and with my friends kind of
Speaker 3: known as the person that you go to to solve
Speaker 3: a problem and get things done. And so then I
Speaker 3: kind of turned from being shocked and sad about how
Speaker 3: it made me feel, too, let's fix this for you.
Speaker 2: My appetite went.
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure I checked that dinner in the bin
Speaker 3: and told him to go home and get some rest.
Speaker 3: And I just needed a bit of time to think
Speaker 3: and plan, and so did he.
Speaker 1: In one conversation, Sarah's world had flipped on its head.
Speaker 1: She had no idea what to think or what to do,
Speaker 1: but she realized if it felt this big for her,
Speaker 1: imagine what it was doing to Jet.
Speaker 3: Looking at him, he felt scared and overwhelmed. And also
Speaker 3: he was this good guy, right, so of course he
Speaker 3: was going to let someone in with a baby that
Speaker 3: he spent ten years with being his kid or not,
Speaker 3: he was going to do the right thing until he knew.
Speaker 3: And so I thought, it's actually probably best. It's all there.
Speaker 3: I didn't want him going back down homeither like I
Speaker 3: would rather him deal with it here where we could
Speaker 3: kind of try to work through it together. But also
Speaker 3: I felt like I've become like an instant stepmom to
Speaker 3: a child that I didn't know, didn't know existed, and
Speaker 3: you know, not necessarily kind of wanted to be a
Speaker 3: part of. But it's not what I signed up for.
Speaker 3: But obviously by this time I loved the man, so
Speaker 3: I was also going to be a team player. The
Speaker 3: next day I kind of debunked it with a colleague
Speaker 3: of mine. Shinelly fell to the floor and goes, Okay, well,
Speaker 3: there is situations where people will stitch people up like this,
Speaker 3: and we need to get him into someone for a lawyer.
Speaker 3: He wants a paternity test. Let's get that underway. Thankfully,
Speaker 3: she's a local and had connections to push him up
Speaker 3: the list in terms of getting into appointments and things
Speaker 3: like that, and by the end of that week we
Speaker 3: had an appointment with a lawyer, and so he was
Speaker 3: going to go to the appointment. I wanted him to
Speaker 3: do that by himself because it was something for him,
Speaker 3: but I did lend him the money to do that
Speaker 3: and get the paternity test because he was paying for
Speaker 3: things like strollers and diapers. She arrived on that Wednesday
Speaker 3: on a flight hold up. She what so he told
Speaker 3: me that she was going to be coming back up
Speaker 3: to where we lived, and that not only was she
Speaker 3: going to be coming up with the baby, but she
Speaker 3: was going to be coming in a couple of days.
Speaker 2: So everything was about to change.
Speaker 1: Things had escalated fast from her boyfriend going to spend
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks with his family and just dropping
Speaker 1: a box of belongings off to his ex girlfriend. All
Speaker 1: of a sudden, the ex girlfriend was there in Sarah's town,
Speaker 1: living at her boyfriend's house with a baby. But Jeff
Speaker 1: knew the baby wasn't his, and he reassured Sarah he
Speaker 1: would get it all sorted out, starting with the paternity test.
Speaker 2: He had the appointment.
Speaker 3: He come back from the appointment and come over to
Speaker 3: my house that night and said that it all went
Speaker 3: really well. He had a a letter drafted for the
Speaker 3: ex girlfriend asking for the paternity test and he was
Speaker 3: going to give that to her at the property, So
Speaker 3: he was going to go home that night and do that.
Speaker 3: So I just said, yep, you need to continue hanging
Speaker 3: out there as much as possible. At the moment whilst
Speaker 3: you don't.
Speaker 2: Know what's going on.
Speaker 3: If this is your child, you need to be providing
Speaker 3: as well. So you know, as far as kind of
Speaker 3: staying over here with me, it's off the cards for
Speaker 3: a little bit until we find out the answers. We
Speaker 3: didn't really go into semantics, to be honest, because he
Speaker 3: just said it's not mine. The numbers don't number. The
Speaker 3: baby was three months old, he'd been with me for
Speaker 3: the period of time before that, and they hadn't been
Speaker 3: together for over a year, so it just couldn't have worked,
Speaker 3: and so I just didn't press that. I thought, we
Speaker 3: just need to get over this hurdle first and then
Speaker 3: we can deal with the other things afterwards. So apparently
Speaker 3: that night they had a huge barney with regards to
Speaker 3: the paternity test, but she did agree to do it,
Speaker 3: and it would have been i would say, a couple
Speaker 3: of weeks until it come back. He was turning up
Speaker 3: with bunches of flowers every couple of days and he
Speaker 3: would bring over dinner, and in the time we did
Speaker 3: spend together, it was very affectionate. I was probably the
Speaker 3: one pulling away a little bit more, but what girl
Speaker 3: doesn't like to get flowers and told that they loved
Speaker 3: So I was very pragmatic about it, but at the
Speaker 3: same time still wanted to be kind of there for him.
Speaker 3: So I was pulling back the emotion a little bit
Speaker 3: from him, but he was probably more overly emotional towards me.
Speaker 1: And then the test results came back.
Speaker 3: He did give me a call. He didn't actually even
Speaker 3: come and tell me a person. He gave me a
Speaker 3: call to say that the baby was his and we
Speaker 3: needed to talk. It was a mix of emotions. I
Speaker 3: think that I was so positive that it wasn't that.
Speaker 3: When I found out that it was, it was kind
Speaker 3: of like, Okay, well, this is the new reality. And
Speaker 3: there was also a part of me that goes, okay, well,
Speaker 3: we're only seven months into this. What direction do I
Speaker 3: want to go? Do I want to change I guess
Speaker 3: the direction of our whole existence? Or am I going
Speaker 3: to stick by this person that I think is a
Speaker 3: great partner and curve off the main path and do
Speaker 3: it a different way? So I think I was more
Speaker 3: just confused, and it was such a crazy story. It
Speaker 3: was not something I was really sharing openly with a
Speaker 3: lot of people, because it was just something that it's
Speaker 3: not general chitchat when you're having a glass of wine
Speaker 3: that your partner has a baby that you didn't know about.
Speaker 3: I was pushing down the fact, you know, potentially it's
Speaker 3: cheated as well, but yeah, that was not the priority
Speaker 3: at the time. It was kind of figuring out what
Speaker 3: to do at the next moment. That night, I actually
Speaker 3: said I wanted some space, and he said I needed
Speaker 3: to have a think about what I wanted to do.
Speaker 3: The ex girlfriend was going to stay at the property
Speaker 3: until she sorted out another place to live or he
Speaker 3: could find another place to live, but she was going
Speaker 3: to stay in the town. He also wanted that. He
Speaker 3: turned quite quickly into that kind of wanting to be
Speaker 3: a doting father and wanted to be involved, which I
Speaker 3: could never want to take away from him anyway. If
Speaker 3: it's his child, of course you're going to want to
Speaker 3: do that. So and I did appreciate that he was
Speaker 3: helping with the I guess the family load as well,
Speaker 3: because you know, it can be quite taxing for one
Speaker 3: person to do that by themselves, and you know, there
Speaker 3: are situations where people can co parent brilliantly, So I
Speaker 3: was hoping that that could be one of those and
Speaker 3: down the track, potentially we could all be civil and
Speaker 3: do it the modern family way. I had a bit
Speaker 3: of time to process, I guess, and I did speak
Speaker 3: to a couple of friends, very close friends, about it,
Speaker 3: and decided that I would stick it out. And I
Speaker 3: told him that, and he just, you know, essentially reassured
Speaker 3: me that nothing would change. It would be different, but
Speaker 3: we would figure it out, and once he was able
Speaker 3: to get into either his own place or get her
Speaker 3: another place, whichever way it would work, then things could
Speaker 3: go back to a little bit more normal. I was
Speaker 3: kind of a bit more forward thinking about how differently
Speaker 3: this changes, even things like finances and whatnot as well.
Speaker 3: We're gone from I lent him money for that kind
Speaker 3: of stuff, but you know, when does it change to
Speaker 3: you're not going on holidays anymore or things like that.
Speaker 3: It was a whole new reality. There was one night
Speaker 3: he come and stayed at my house and then I
Speaker 3: woke up with a note saying, I've had to take
Speaker 3: baby to hospital. I'll give you a call soon, and
Speaker 3: I just like, he didn't wake me up to do that,
Speaker 3: but he just left. But obviously my first thought when
Speaker 3: I'm waking up is baby okay? So yeah, it was
Speaker 3: just things like that. But even when he did stay
Speaker 3: over again, he would come over and we would go
Speaker 3: to sleep, but then he would hop up at like
Speaker 3: one or two o'clock in the morning and go home
Speaker 3: home because he said that, you know, he was going
Speaker 3: to take a feed time or whatnot. So he was
Speaker 3: kind of trying to balance being at my house but
Speaker 3: also being at home. So and I understood that because
Speaker 3: you know, if the ex girlfriend has just turned up
Speaker 3: with a baby and he's going and spending time at
Speaker 3: another girl's house, it wouldn't be hard for her just
Speaker 3: after giving birth. So I didn't have a problem with
Speaker 3: him spending more time at his house. And I certainly
Speaker 3: wasn't going to be going there and flaunting it in
Speaker 3: her face. So at the time, it was what it was.
Speaker 3: I decided to stick it out because of how I
Speaker 3: felt at the time, and I just thought, you know, life,
Speaker 3: unfortunately isn't you know your your linear family anymore, And
Speaker 3: if this is the way that we're going to have
Speaker 3: a child, then great, I don't have to get pregnant.
Speaker 3: It wasn't the ideal situation, but we could make it work.
Speaker 1: So they pushed forward. Jeff was prioritizing the baby as
Speaker 1: much as he could, while giving Sarah space and time
Speaker 1: to come to terms with it, but very much being
Speaker 1: there for her too, And after about three weeks, they
Speaker 1: decided it was time for her to meet the tiny
Speaker 1: little human who was now going to be in her
Speaker 1: life too.
Speaker 3: He actually called me in the morning and said, did
Speaker 3: you want to go to the market and I said, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I'll meet you there, and then he said, I'm going
Speaker 3: to bring baby down. I'll just walk him down there
Speaker 3: and you can meet him. I was nervous. It was
Speaker 3: a public place, so it was weird. But then I
Speaker 3: can't really tell you how many times I've held a baby.
Speaker 3: It's not many, so you know, to then hold one
Speaker 3: that is my partner's baby, he definitely had his eyes
Speaker 3: and I was like, how did you not know this
Speaker 3: was your child?
Speaker 2: But you know, I didn't bring that up.
Speaker 3: Once it started crying, I put it in the prem
Speaker 3: and he walked home and I went home and that
Speaker 3: was enough for that day. So there was a few
Speaker 3: more times that we went down to the beach one
Speaker 3: night and had his first little splash in the water.
Speaker 3: But there was a few times, but I certainly wasn't
Speaker 3: an active part of this child's life. It was just
Speaker 3: a couple of meat and greets.
Speaker 1: It was all a massive us meant. But Sarah was
Speaker 1: as supportive as she could be because she knew a
Speaker 1: new life was the most important thing to prioritize. The
Speaker 1: question she had for Jeff Goodwait.
Speaker 3: When I first met the baby, I thought, it's very
Speaker 3: big for a newborn. I've seen obviously photos, and I've
Speaker 3: had a few friends that have had children, but this
Speaker 3: baby was quite chubby and you know, had a bit
Speaker 3: of weight in him when I held him. So the
Speaker 3: three months I was like, oh, this is a big
Speaker 3: kid for three months, but you know, I'm not a
Speaker 3: baby expert, so I just didn't say anything further. I
Speaker 3: was just like, oh, these things grow quite quickly nowadays,
Speaker 3: and left it at that. We've been together for around
Speaker 3: seven months. He said the baby was about three months old,
Speaker 3: and I guess, you know, I kind of thought, well,
Speaker 3: it was either out of the dates of us being
Speaker 3: together or very close to the start of dating, and
Speaker 3: I just didn't push the question too much more. He
Speaker 3: had enough stresses going on on the other side, and
Speaker 3: I just wanted to kind of just be there and
Speaker 3: be supportive. I had obviously, as I said, mentioned this
Speaker 3: to a couple of girlfriends, one of them being a
Speaker 3: work colleague of mine, Emily, and she just couldn't put
Speaker 3: it all together and she was really worried about me.
Speaker 3: It was starting to, I guess, have a bit of
Speaker 3: an effect on my work, not in my performance, but
Speaker 3: just in the attitude in terms of I was just
Speaker 3: I was stressed out about other things, and she's just like,
Speaker 3: it just doesn't seem like this is a lot, and
Speaker 3: are you sure that you want this?
Speaker 2: And what do we know about her? Like, how was
Speaker 2: she doing? What is going on?
Speaker 3: And so then we sat in her office and she goes,
Speaker 3: what do you know about this girl? And I said,
Speaker 3: basically what I told you before, that her name is Kathy.
Speaker 3: They were high school sweethearts, they went to the same
Speaker 3: school and they worked together. I said to her, also,
Speaker 3: he doesn't have social media, so you won't find anything.
Speaker 3: And she goes, okay, And then I went back down
Speaker 3: to my office and started doing some stuff. What have
Speaker 3: been about ten minutes, got this screen saying Sarah. I
Speaker 3: ran down to her office and the look that she
Speaker 3: had on her face was just this look of someone
Speaker 3: who just felt super sorry for me. And I was like,
Speaker 3: what is it, and she just said, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3: She turned around a computer screen. There was a photo
Speaker 3: of a girl and a guy, a pregnant girl and
Speaker 3: a guy, and it was him.
Speaker 2: He was holding the paternity shoot. And then I.
Speaker 3: Looked at her name and they had the same last name.
Speaker 3: It was her Facebook and that was her profile picture.
Speaker 3: It was the eternity shoot. She did have it on
Speaker 3: quite private, but you could see what her profile pictures
Speaker 3: were back in the day, and there was their wedding photos.
Speaker 3: There was also a photo of them with the pregnancy thing.
Speaker 3: And they actually did IVF for this baby. So not
Speaker 3: only did he lie about an ex girlfriend, lie about
Speaker 3: them being broken up, he lied about a child, and
Speaker 3: he lied that he actually paid money to have this child.
Speaker 3: And he lied to me and paid me pay for
Speaker 3: a paternity test, and very much knew about it. It
Speaker 3: was actually such a mix of emotions. I was laughing
Speaker 3: and crying and I was so angry.
Speaker 2: I was raging.
Speaker 3: I went home and saw my girlfriend at lunchtime. I
Speaker 3: had a friend staying with me. She was up on holidays,
Speaker 3: and I went and poured myself a glass of wine
Speaker 3: and we sat and She's just like, this can't be happening,
Speaker 3: and I was like, this is happening. I wanted to scream, cry,
Speaker 3: But also I felt really betrayed, and that is what hurt.
Speaker 3: It was the feeling of betrayal and even the fact
Speaker 3: that I just trusted someone so much and it was
Speaker 3: such latant lies. It was not white lives. This was
Speaker 3: black and white. You were married, you had a child.
Speaker 3: It was a bit of an emotive day, that's for sure.
Speaker 3: So much of me wanted to hold out and actually
Speaker 3: confront him in person, but then so much a part
Speaker 3: of me never wanted to see this person ever again
Speaker 3: in my life. So I took a photo of these things,
Speaker 3: I obviously hopped on her thing on my phone, screenshot
Speaker 3: at it and sent it to him and I said,
Speaker 3: I know everything.
Speaker 2: How dare you?
Speaker 3: And never talked to me again, And that was in
Speaker 3: my rage part. Anyway, I sat there and it was
Speaker 3: about twenty minutes later. I didn't think he'd get it
Speaker 3: for a while because, as I said, we didn't text
Speaker 3: during the day. He was a teacher. But I'm sure
Speaker 3: when he got a message with a photo like that,
Speaker 3: he would have probably walked out of the classroom anyway.
Speaker 3: So we text back and he goes, you don't deserve this.
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry. I was sorting it all out, but
Speaker 3: this must be too much for you. I'll leave you
Speaker 3: alone now. That even made me more enraged, if anything,
Speaker 3: because he didn't even have an explanation for me. He
Speaker 3: just wanted to walk away from it, being like, oh, okay,
Speaker 3: I've been caught see later, And so that made me mad.
Speaker 3: I went from sad to mad.
Speaker 1: And what do we do when we're mad, We get even.
Speaker 3: I messaged her, Hi, Kathy, you probably don't know me,
Speaker 3: but my name is Sarah and I have been dating
Speaker 3: your husband for the last seven months. I only found
Speaker 3: out about you being his ex girlfriend and the situation
Speaker 3: going on with the baby recently, and I.
Speaker 2: Was told that this child was not his.
Speaker 3: I have now found your Facebook profile today and confirmed
Speaker 3: everything is a lie. And I just want you to
Speaker 3: be known what's going on on this side, because you
Speaker 3: did not deserve this man that can treat both of
Speaker 3: us like this. And it was only minutes before she
Speaker 3: wrote back, and she wrote back, I knew it. I
Speaker 3: knew he was cheating on me. I knew something was
Speaker 3: going on. He's been withdrawn with me. I found an
Speaker 3: earring in our bed and he gas lip me to
Speaker 3: the fact that he said that I planted it in
Speaker 3: there to try and make him look like he was
Speaker 3: a cheater. They were not separated. They were one hundred
Speaker 3: percent sleeping in the same bed and still sleeping together
Speaker 3: at the time that we were together. And the reason
Speaker 3: that she was down south is because she had some
Speaker 3: complications with her birth, being an IVF baby, and was
Speaker 3: spending time with family for the first six months getting
Speaker 3: adjusted to life, And so she'd actually been down there
Speaker 3: for a longer than that. She spent a year almost
Speaker 3: down there, and he had been going down there more
Speaker 3: times than what I knew. So they were very much
Speaker 3: still together. They might not have been having the best
Speaker 3: part of their life, but they were married and they
Speaker 3: were back living together.
Speaker 1: Sarah's worst fears were realized in one message. Well not
Speaker 1: even her worst fears, really. She hadn't even considered any
Speaker 1: of this. She was in shock, She was confused, and
Speaker 1: she was incredibly hurt. What the hell would Jeff have
Speaker 1: to say when he found out she knew all this
Speaker 1: time he'd been hiding a.
Speaker 3: Family He messaged me being like, of course you had
Speaker 3: to tell her if I can't have you, and now
Speaker 3: you've made me lose her too. I was like, how
Speaker 3: dare you You haven't even explained anything to me as
Speaker 3: to what's going on. Of course, I'm going to go
Speaker 3: and tell this person you have been lying blatantly to
Speaker 3: me and you have taken no responsibility.
Speaker 2: At least.
Speaker 3: I'm going to let someone else know that they don't
Speaker 3: have to go through this because you are a liar.
Speaker 3: It's just crazy to me that he thought that he
Speaker 3: could get away with it. There was nothing too much
Speaker 3: after that in terms of in text message form. I
Speaker 3: kind of just stopped, but he did can't turn up
Speaker 3: at my house. I think it was the next day,
Speaker 3: and I didn't want to see him. He was knocking
Speaker 3: on the door. I told him to go away. Then
Speaker 3: the next day he left flowers and food at my
Speaker 3: door some pat tie and sent me a text message
Speaker 3: saying I left your favorite food. I hope you're eating.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't be eating because he'd broken my heart. It
Speaker 3: was so bloody narcissistic, and I walked it straight out
Speaker 3: to the bin and put the flowers in the bin
Speaker 3: as well. I actually text the wife and sent her
Speaker 3: a photo and said, I hope he doesn't bring you
Speaker 3: home flowers too, just to keep her in the loop.
Speaker 3: She had to make her own decision about the relationship,
Speaker 3: but I also didn't want her falling back into a
Speaker 3: bubble where his love bombing her again and being like
Speaker 3: that was a mistake I made.
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3: I never wanted to make her feel even worse than
Speaker 3: what it was. But I was also happy to give
Speaker 3: her information. But I also didn't want to be screenshotting
Speaker 3: conversations in things like that because I just didn't think,
Speaker 3: you know, we were in two separate relationships and we
Speaker 3: both didn't know about each other. So I didn't want
Speaker 3: her to see, you know, I love you and things
Speaker 3: like that. So I just kind of kept it very
Speaker 3: matter of fact and said, you know, if you need
Speaker 3: assistance or something like, you can let me know. I
Speaker 3: believe that she was then looking for another property and whatnot,
Speaker 3: and she was going to move out of that home.
Speaker 3: Then I started doing more digging, and the house that
Speaker 3: he said was his, I did a title search and
Speaker 3: it was their. The lies were just so many that
Speaker 3: you couldn't even stop unraveling them once they come out.
Speaker 3: The hardest thing for me was, you know, I hung
Speaker 3: out with his friends and his work colleagues. I don't
Speaker 3: know if he was feeding them lies that they had
Speaker 3: separated as well, because obviously she was done south at
Speaker 3: the time, so I don't know what the story was there,
Speaker 3: but I certainly know, particularly the housemates knew that she
Speaker 3: was staying there because they all lived in the same house.
Speaker 3: And you know, when I actually did see them maybe
Speaker 3: a month later at the pub, they looked at me
Speaker 3: and went to stay hi, and I was like, don't
Speaker 3: you dare, don't talk to me. I just can't condone
Speaker 3: anyone that can go along with their friends and not
Speaker 3: pull them up on that. They saw that I was
Speaker 3: in love with this guy, and they didn't give me
Speaker 3: any warning.
Speaker 2: Like it's yeah, it was horrible.
Speaker 3: I was sad, but I was also just there's nothing
Speaker 3: I could do to change the situation. It was a
Speaker 3: shitty situation, and there was no coming back from it.
Speaker 3: It wasn't like there's My emotions turned off to him
Speaker 3: almost immediately because trust was a big thing for me,
Speaker 3: and you know, once you break that, it's pretty hard
Speaker 3: to come back from. But this is like on the
Speaker 3: extra scale of breaking a trust, so the feelings were done.
Speaker 3: It was more so I kind of kept replaying over
Speaker 3: and over in my head. How could I'd not have
Speaker 3: seen more signs if I've looked back so many times
Speaker 3: and tried to see whether or not there was anything
Speaker 3: that I missed and any red flags. But I really
Speaker 3: can't see anything that I would have picked up that
Speaker 3: would have been any different. He was just able to
Speaker 3: get away with it and lie so easily without any
Speaker 3: need for concern. He really didn't give away any science
Speaker 3: when baby wasn't here. But I guess in terms of
Speaker 3: when you think about it looking back, once baby was here,
Speaker 3: you know, taking off in the middle of the night
Speaker 3: and walking outside for phone calls and things like that,
Speaker 3: I guess could be. But I also knew she was there,
Speaker 3: So it wasn't a huge red flag to me because I,
Speaker 3: in my head was told the full situation of what
Speaker 3: was going on at the time. So yeah, I really
Speaker 3: couldn't have really picked anything up differently. It was just
Speaker 3: I should have stalked her earlier.
Speaker 1: As traumatic and huge a betrayal as this had been.
Speaker 1: Sarah was empathetic towards Kathy. It was a much bigger
Speaker 1: betrayal of her, and she was the one really left
Speaker 1: in the thick of it. So Sarah put aside her
Speaker 1: own hurt and backed away, not her circus, not her monkeys.
Speaker 3: Realistically, I was hurting, but I was actually hurting more
Speaker 3: for Kathy than I was for myself because I was
Speaker 3: only seven months in, but she was ten and she
Speaker 3: had a baby with this person that that's not a
Speaker 3: good guy. There was a couple of occasions where he
Speaker 3: tried to leave me food and things like that. I
Speaker 3: just ended up fizzling out the conversation. I just wouldn't
Speaker 3: get back to him if he texted me. I just said,
Speaker 3: you know, you're going to have to leave me a
Speaker 3: lot like it's done. And he did respect that. That's
Speaker 3: the only thing he respected from me, But he did
Speaker 3: respect that, and then quite the same with Kathy. She
Speaker 3: probably asked a few more questions over the coming weeks
Speaker 3: because he had been lying to her. It got really
Speaker 3: actually to the point where I was a bit draining
Speaker 3: on me as well, because I was trying to move
Speaker 3: on and I didn't want to keep going back into it.
Speaker 3: And I think she kind of got that and tape
Speaker 3: it off on that as well. We didn't really have
Speaker 3: the end of relationship conversation at all. It was so
Speaker 3: black and white. There was nothing really he could say
Speaker 3: to change my mind about anything. The blatant lies were
Speaker 3: there and any facts that I needed. I was kind
Speaker 3: of getting off Kathy, and even the language that was used,
Speaker 3: being like, I can't believe you're talking to her now,
Speaker 3: I'm going to lose both of you really showed his
Speaker 3: true colors. But that was not someone that I wanted
Speaker 3: to talk to ever again. I just rallied around with
Speaker 3: my friends who we just talked about that crazy story
Speaker 3: and got back on with my life. I took some
Speaker 3: time out from dating, obviously, and you know, kind of
Speaker 3: just focused on myself. I still had everything else in
Speaker 3: my life was good, and that was, you know, something
Speaker 3: adding to it. But once it wasn't adding to it,
Speaker 3: then okay, see you later, because there was nothing I
Speaker 3: wanted to do to change this one. But it definitely
Speaker 3: took me some time. I actually do think he did
Speaker 3: love me, that's the thing. I think that he did
Speaker 3: truly care about me, and I don't know, in a
Speaker 3: strange way, if he really did think that he could
Speaker 3: have sorted this out and just separated from her, and
Speaker 3: then we continue one. I don't know because I'm not
Speaker 3: inside his mind, but I think in his head that
Speaker 3: he was going to go through a separation with her
Speaker 3: and start a life with me, and I would just
Speaker 3: never know the numbers in terms of the overlap timeframes
Speaker 3: and things like that. But you know, when it didn't
Speaker 3: work like that, because you know, it all blew up
Speaker 3: in his face.
Speaker 1: So she thought that'd be it. She had no reason
Speaker 1: to ever speak to nor hear from either of them
Speaker 1: again until only nine months later.
Speaker 2: I got a message of her.
Speaker 3: We weren't friends on Facebook or anything, so it comes
Speaker 3: up in your message requests. She just said, oh, hey,
Speaker 3: I hope you're well. Just touching base with you. Jeffrey
Speaker 3: has moved on to another girl. Turns out he's engaged.
Speaker 3: He's engaged to another girl who apparently he has started
Speaker 3: dating at the same time. I just wrote back to
Speaker 3: her and I said, oh, I hope you're getting everything
Speaker 3: sorted and getting yourself and your baby set up, and
Speaker 3: best of luck to you. Escaped something pretty horrific. And
Speaker 3: then she mentioned that they were selling the house and
Speaker 3: that she would be, you know, going home to her
Speaker 3: family and it was a complete separation and they split.
Speaker 3: I wasn't surprised. I actually wasn't surprised after it, I said,
Speaker 3: you know, like the facts about everything in this were
Speaker 3: just so unreal that stick on an engagement like that's
Speaker 3: just another bit to the story, really, isn't it. Like
Speaker 3: it didn't actually shock me. I laughed, I think at
Speaker 3: the time, and just goes, yeah, look, that would be Jeffrey.
Speaker 3: I don't know it to be true. I haven't actually looked,
Speaker 3: but apparently he is now married. He's now moved into state, thankfully,
Speaker 3: and I don't know his relationship with his child, but
Speaker 3: I don't think it's a super positive one. He's just
Speaker 3: ran away from his problems again.
Speaker 1: But Sarah hasn't done that. In fact, she's thrived. She
Speaker 1: had dodged a massive bullet, and she credits that to
Speaker 1: putting her on the path to exactly where she's meant
Speaker 1: to be.
Speaker 2: Well, it definitely took me a while.
Speaker 3: I sat out for a little bit and just made
Speaker 3: sure that I was going to be I guess, strong
Speaker 3: enough to go through another situation, but also really that
Speaker 3: that situation is like one in a million, So it
Speaker 3: couldn't be as bad as that one, but you know,
Speaker 3: I definitely had a lack of trust for people and
Speaker 3: and always probably looked for, you know, the worst case
Speaker 3: scenario rather than just kind of going with the flow,
Speaker 3: which is what I had done in the past.
Speaker 2: I didn't have.
Speaker 3: I always used to be of the mantra that if
Speaker 3: you don't have any reason to not be trusted, like,
Speaker 3: the trust is given until it's broken. So that definitely
Speaker 3: changed to the it's guilty to proven innocent rather than
Speaker 3: innocent to proven guilty. And that was not the best
Speaker 3: way to look at things, but it was just protecting myself.
Speaker 3: So it would have been about nine months or so later,
Speaker 3: maybe closer to a year, but it was a little
Speaker 3: while and I hopped back on Tinder and thought I
Speaker 3: would give it another shot. And it was within that
Speaker 3: first evening that I was on there. I swiped on
Speaker 3: a beautiful person called Dan and we started talking back
Speaker 3: and forth, and yeah, it was just we lived in ourtown,
Speaker 3: but he was doing some remote work and after a
Speaker 3: few nights of talking, he said, oh, I'll give you
Speaker 3: a call if you like, and we ended up sitting
Speaker 3: on the phone and chatting for a couple of hours
Speaker 3: and it was just free flowing conversation.
Speaker 2: It's like we knew each other.
Speaker 3: For years, and we actually because we weren't face to
Speaker 3: face and we were talking, I actually told him the
Speaker 3: story right then. I know, you never saw talked about
Speaker 3: yex on a first date, but it wasn't even a
Speaker 3: first date.
Speaker 2: We were just talking and getting to know each other.
Speaker 3: And I guess I really said like a bit of
Speaker 3: a foundation that he really and he was so understanding
Speaker 3: of me being very difficult to trust and let people
Speaker 3: in and was respectful of that and really probably held
Speaker 3: my hand a little bit like in terms of you know, now,
Speaker 3: you know, you get to you worry about other people
Speaker 3: and other things, but I never had a reason to
Speaker 3: worry with him. Once we were together, that was it.
Speaker 3: There was no one else. It's an open phone policy.
Speaker 3: It's everything that I needed he gave me. And yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm very, very lucky to have him. We've been together
Speaker 3: coming up to two years now, just bought a property
Speaker 3: together and have a nice little life with our three
Speaker 3: little puppies. I can see myself getting old with this one.
Speaker 3: And there's just no drama in our life, which I love.
Speaker 3: I never want to have to deal with, you know,
Speaker 3: secret wives and children ever again.
Speaker 1: Everyone has an Eggs is a Minti Media production and
Speaker 1: proudly part of the Mum and mea network. This episode
Speaker 1: is written and narrated by me Georgia Love and produced
Speaker 1: by Linda Scott. If you have a story you'd like
Speaker 1: to share, email podcast at momameia dot com dot au.
Speaker 1: You can support us by following the show in your
Speaker 1: favorite podcast app and leaving a five star review. We'll
Speaker 1: see you for the next episode.