Speaker 1: So much.
Speaker 2: You're listening to a Mother Mia podcast.
Speaker 3: Mumma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land. We
Speaker 3: have recorded this podcast on the Gadigul people of the
Speaker 3: Eor nation. We pay our respects to their elders past
Speaker 3: and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and
Speaker 3: Torres Right islander cultures.
Speaker 4: Hi It's analyse here from Muma MIA's parenting podcast, This
Speaker 4: Glorious Mess.
Speaker 1: Do you get mum guilt? I'm sure you.
Speaker 4: Do, whether it's about what you feel like you haven't done,
Speaker 4: or maybe it's about the things you have done, like
Speaker 4: a weekend away or.
Speaker 1: Just taking time for you.
Speaker 4: I'm dropping into your fee today to share an episode
Speaker 4: of This Glorious Mess all about mum guilt and to
Speaker 4: get the full perspective. We've invited a dad on the
Speaker 4: show to ask if he gets dad guilt. The answers
Speaker 4: will probably not shock you, but in some ways they
Speaker 4: also will surprise you. This is this glorious mess, and
Speaker 4: guilt can get.
Speaker 1: In the bin.
Speaker 4: Hello, and welcome to this Glorious Mess. We're embracing the
Speaker 4: chaos together, ditching the judgment. I'm Anali's todd and as
Speaker 4: well as.
Speaker 1: Ditching the judgment.
Speaker 4: We hope by the end of this episode we're ditching
Speaker 4: the guilt it needs to do on the bin Well,
Speaker 4: I'm teaking to Tolly and I'm a guilt to Hollegu,
Speaker 4: So I can't wait to find the guilt bin Well,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna help you find a teased because today on
Speaker 4: the show, we're diving into mum guilt, which.
Speaker 1: I hate that. I hate that that's even a term.
Speaker 4: Have you ever heard of dad guilt? No, no, you haven't.
Speaker 4: So while parent guilt is real for everyone, there's a
Speaker 4: unique type of guilt that many mothers experience, and it's
Speaker 4: something that impacts women in ways that men often don't feel.
Speaker 4: I think that we're going to find and it affects
Speaker 4: us every single day.
Speaker 5: I feel like mum guilt is a truly wired thing,
Speaker 5: like and as you are a mum, you're wiring completely changes.
Speaker 4: Or even I was thinking, for example, with my first pregnancy,
Speaker 4: all I could stomach was toasted cheese and tomato sandwiches,
Speaker 4: and then I felt guilty that I wasn't eating a
Speaker 4: range of nutrients because all I could eat was cheese, bread.
Speaker 5: My gosh, it starts, it starts so early and we'll
Speaker 5: go into that later. But my gosh, there's some real
Speaker 5: cans of worms to open in the guilt depart.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we want to hear from dads, and we're actually
Speaker 4: going to do that today, which I'm so excited for.
Speaker 5: She's got her interrogation ready to go, her intermigation because.
Speaker 4: We're actually going to chat to out this glorious mess
Speaker 4: songwriter and Dada three Tom lyons.
Speaker 5: Well, she says, we're going to chat, but she's got
Speaker 5: to intomigate him.
Speaker 4: I'm going to intermigate him because I want to find
Speaker 4: and really understand in heterosexual relationships, do they notice their
Speaker 4: partners carrying more guilt or even care?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: See that's the interesting part.
Speaker 5: Like I say to my husband all the time, like,
Speaker 5: oh my god, I feel so guilty, and he'd be
Speaker 5: like why, Like he just can't even fathom what I
Speaker 5: would feel guilty about, let alone feel guilty himself. Like
Speaker 5: he doesn't even understand my guilt.
Speaker 1: It's not even a thought factor.
Speaker 5: If one of my kids are upset and we go
Speaker 5: out for dinner or something, I'd be like, oh, I
Speaker 5: feel really bad, Like why.
Speaker 2: Like what do you mean why?
Speaker 4: Yes, first foughtigus I would like to dive into what's
Speaker 4: happening in my group chat. Recently, I went on a
Speaker 4: little cruise holiday.
Speaker 2: Oh did you ever?
Speaker 1: I did?
Speaker 2: I watched it unfold yes on the Instagram.
Speaker 4: Watch what happens live otherwise on his analytics' Instagram stories.
Speaker 4: And I went with my sons and my mum and
Speaker 4: it was beautiful and we had fun. But what I
Speaker 4: realized was I was sitting by the pool and having
Speaker 4: a little day cocktail and I just didn't have to
Speaker 4: do anything. And the kids ran around and they had
Speaker 4: found holiday friends and started a new little commune. And
Speaker 4: I thought, this is the ideal mum holiday. And I
Speaker 4: sent a group to my girlfriends and I said, we
Speaker 4: need to come on a cruise. No men allowed, women
Speaker 4: and children only and just lie by the pool and
Speaker 4: let the kids just do all the things and you
Speaker 4: don't have to think how did they react? Because there
Speaker 4: are cruise people's and there are not cruise people. Surprisingly,
Speaker 4: one of my poodle friends, who I thought would not
Speaker 4: be a cruise person, said, I've just spoken to my sons.
Speaker 1: They're keene. I think we should do it.
Speaker 5: I have been longing for a cruise, like my husband
Speaker 5: is so not.
Speaker 1: A cruiserh my god, we'll go together.
Speaker 2: What I want to do is go on a cruise. Yes,
Speaker 2: I want buffet.
Speaker 1: Breakfast, no cooking, no cleaning, no washing, no thinking.
Speaker 5: I want a slippery dip thing on all the kids
Speaker 5: stuff that happens, shows and bingos by night.
Speaker 1: Group work and circle work on the dance floor.
Speaker 5: Oh, it's just everything in one place. I don't even
Speaker 5: have to drive anywhere.
Speaker 1: You're stuck in a boat with me.
Speaker 2: Okay, maybe I'm not a groupers anymore.
Speaker 4: The evolution of mum guilt, which we have decided we
Speaker 4: hate that phrase.
Speaker 2: Well, it just is what it is.
Speaker 1: I know, but I don't want it to be.
Speaker 2: But it is, But it is. It's a thing. It's
Speaker 2: not going away.
Speaker 5: Even if there was the guilt bin, it would all
Speaker 5: just still be sitting in the guilt.
Speaker 1: Bin, bubbling and boiling over like yeah.
Speaker 5: Like all together and like pondering and like an infection
Speaker 5: spreading and multiplying.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's like COVID in a bit.
Speaker 5: You know, motherhood really opened a can of worms for
Speaker 5: me because I was never a guilty person, because I'm
Speaker 5: such a goody goody, like I never really did anything
Speaker 5: to feel guilty about motherhood. I reckon, I feel guilty
Speaker 5: every single day. Yeah, definitely, there's a level of guilt.
Speaker 4: And yeah, like I said, mine started from the toasted
Speaker 4: cheese and tomato sandwiches when't Yeah.
Speaker 2: So same mine.
Speaker 5: So as soon as I found out I was having twins,
Speaker 5: I was like, oh my god, am I gonna love
Speaker 5: both of them enough?
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna have enough love or maybe I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna be moth of them enough.
Speaker 5: And then I had another one so quickly, so then
Speaker 5: it was like more guilt, like three times guilt. And
Speaker 5: then you feel so guilty that you need a break,
Speaker 5: and then you feel guilty about going on a brain.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you feel guilty because you want time away from them.
Speaker 4: Then you get time away from them, and then you
Speaker 4: feel guilty about sending time away from and then you
Speaker 4: go back to work, which is lovely, but then you
Speaker 4: feel really that's.
Speaker 1: When said, when I'm choosing the steam train of.
Speaker 5: Guilt, I am choosing to do this over that, Like
Speaker 5: that's when you're like guilt in.
Speaker 4: First dag and I remember, like, you know, scenes from
Speaker 4: picking up my youngest from daycare and he was like
Speaker 4: standing at the bars with his hands up screaming, and I.
Speaker 1: Was like, they haunt you forever, kid jail. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: how long has it we doing this? Just an hour
Speaker 1: and a half. And I was like, oh, oh, you
Speaker 1: could have liked you could have said thirty seconds.
Speaker 5: You know, I'll send me the text. He's fine now, yeah,
Speaker 5: just something like that anyway.
Speaker 4: So then even now, so like we've talked about the
Speaker 4: journey from the first moments of impregnation.
Speaker 2: Guilt.
Speaker 4: I feel guilty that I gave my twelve year old
Speaker 4: phone and he spends a lot of time on his phone.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I feel guilty about letting my youngest watch a lot
Speaker 4: of YouTube.
Speaker 2: Yep. Same.
Speaker 4: I feel guilty when I miss something at school, like
Speaker 4: an award or like.
Speaker 5: Oh they're the worst ones too, like because then they'll
Speaker 5: be like, oh why can't you come mom, or like
Speaker 5: oh you weren't there or.
Speaker 2: You missed it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: The other day, like Benjo was getting an award and
Speaker 5: he had walked himself into the principal's office and said, hey,
Speaker 5: I'm getting a book award. Like book awards are like, sorry,
Speaker 5: I'm gonna feel guilty about saying this, but not that
Speaker 5: much of a big.
Speaker 1: Deal, Like you just read.
Speaker 2: A certain amount of books.
Speaker 5: Like, yeah, now I tell guilty, but truly they're not
Speaker 5: that much of a big deal. He'd gone into the
Speaker 5: principal's office and said, Hey, I'm getting a book award.
Speaker 5: Can you call my mum and tell us she's got
Speaker 5: to come to assembly this sufternoon to watch for me
Speaker 5: to get it. So the principal emailed me and was like, hey,
Speaker 5: Banjo's just come in and asked me to tell you
Speaker 5: to come to assembly.
Speaker 2: But I couldn't come. So then what did I do
Speaker 2: all day?
Speaker 1: Felt guilty?
Speaker 2: Of course I did feel guilty all day.
Speaker 4: What was interesting becoming a single mum. It gave me
Speaker 4: so much time back so that now when I do
Speaker 4: things for myself, I don't have guilt because my kids aren't.
Speaker 1: There wasn't an option. It's like, oh, it's guilt free,
Speaker 1: old free time.
Speaker 4: So that's that is a relief because I've got time
Speaker 4: to do selfish things and I don't feel guilty about
Speaker 4: In terms of the working mother's guilt, I do have
Speaker 4: perspective on this. I was raised by a single mom
Speaker 4: who worked a billion hours, like eighty.
Speaker 2: Hour weeks, yeah, which is pretty rare.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for the nineties.
Speaker 4: She had her own business and she worked a lot,
Speaker 4: and I do have core memories of being a very
Speaker 4: wingy child like me and my sister crying at the door.
Speaker 4: She'd have clients over and we'd be like mum. And
Speaker 4: I know that she's crippled with guilt from that time
Speaker 4: and the time that she missed, and now she tries
Speaker 4: to overcompensate with my kids.
Speaker 1: And she's very, very very hands on her Grandmam when
Speaker 1: she's around.
Speaker 4: I will say that as an adult reflecting on that time,
Speaker 4: all I have is gratitude. I don't have memories of
Speaker 4: being like, oh, I wish my mum was here, you know,
Speaker 4: I wish mum was doing this. I don't have memories. Yes,
Speaker 4: actually her missing out on you're.
Speaker 5: Now looking back going wow, what she sacrificed for us,
Speaker 5: Like there's no bad. Oh she should feel really bad
Speaker 5: because she wass she missed my book award.
Speaker 1: And I don't care about that now.
Speaker 4: I can only just sort of live in gratitude and think, wow,
Speaker 4: look what she did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the sad what she missed out on. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: thank you mum.
Speaker 4: And I hope and for anyone listening who's a working
Speaker 4: parent that is crippled by guilt.
Speaker 1: I hope that really you get that.
Speaker 4: Way off later in life when they're adults and they
Speaker 4: realize what you did.
Speaker 5: Yeah, because I am a guilty colleague, I try to
Speaker 5: remind myself that those are my feelings. Like no one's
Speaker 5: making me feel bad or expecting me to feel bad,
Speaker 5: do you know what I mean? Like no one said like, oh, well,
Speaker 5: you didn't show up and I'm so so you should do.
Speaker 5: But like you know what I mean, Like this is
Speaker 5: all my creation of my own expectations. It's almost like
Speaker 5: we're so hard on ourselves and how we expect to
Speaker 5: be all the things all the time. Like we've got
Speaker 5: to be there all the time. We've got to show
Speaker 5: up every time, we've got to have the perfect meal
Speaker 5: every time and stick to our boundaries. The guilt is
Speaker 5: coming from within myself.
Speaker 4: And if you actually isolate the feeling, someone can't make
Speaker 4: you feel guilty.
Speaker 1: No, it's completely from within yourself.
Speaker 2: But then that's when I need to realize to just
Speaker 2: shut up.
Speaker 4: Doesn't that mean if we can create it, can't we
Speaker 4: squash it? Oh?
Speaker 2: Well, live if you say so.
Speaker 4: We had a chat to some of the Muma Mere
Speaker 4: dad's and partners friends. We put a call out to
Speaker 4: this glorious mess listener, send us some of your dad
Speaker 4: voices because we want to hear from dads.
Speaker 1: Does your partner feel dad guilt?
Speaker 5: It's the same like do the men feel it? Our
Speaker 5: men and women wired differently.
Speaker 1: And here's what they had to say.
Speaker 2: I am sure that I have felt dad guilt.
Speaker 6: I can't think of the scenario.
Speaker 3: Maybe when I've upset her for some reason and I
Speaker 3: felt bad because she was crying.
Speaker 7: In the last couple of years, I spent a fair
Speaker 7: amount of time working from home, and it's made me
Speaker 7: realize how much I missed when I was in the
Speaker 7: office every single day. The little conversations when they get
Speaker 7: home from school, going to see their sports days, their parents' nights,
Speaker 7: their assemblies, stuff that I never got to do while
Speaker 7: I was working full time in an office because it
Speaker 7: was just too much to be able to somehow get
Speaker 7: home in time. But working from home has made me
Speaker 7: appreciate moments like that, but also realize what I've missed
Speaker 7: over the years. No, I don't feel any guilt.
Speaker 8: I do feel dad guilt because quite regularly I forget
Speaker 8: which days of the week are sports uniform day versus
Speaker 8: regular school uniform day, and after you're reminded constantly, I
Speaker 8: forget what the boys are doing after school continuously, whether
Speaker 8: it's football, whether it's basketball, whether it's swimming. Who would know?
Speaker 8: But I do actually feel really guilty about that dad guilt.
Speaker 1: What is that guilt? So we wanted to hear from
Speaker 1: the other side. We wanted to ask a man.
Speaker 4: We want the intel, the goths, the tea, and ask
Speaker 4: a dad about his parental guilt, if he has any,
Speaker 4: does it exist? Tom Lyon, welcome back to this glorious mess.
Speaker 6: Hello, it's so good to be back. I've been preparing
Speaker 6: for today talking about mental load with my wife last night,
Speaker 6: and I think, yeah, I've got a lot to learn,
Speaker 6: but I'm here to share guys.
Speaker 4: So, Tom, do you get dad guilt? And if so,
Speaker 4: on what type of issues.
Speaker 6: Do I get Dad?
Speaker 8: Well?
Speaker 6: Is the sky blue? I definitely get dad guilt. And
Speaker 6: I have to say, like hearing you guys before, mum
Speaker 6: guilt is far more pervasive than dad guilt. See everywhere
Speaker 6: for you, guys, I see that trade wives, trand and
Speaker 6: it's like you guys could be cooking a pasta. Are
Speaker 6: you cooking that pasta from scratch, or did you buy
Speaker 6: the shells from the shops? So I get it. It's
Speaker 6: more pervasive for you guys, but for men, we definitely
Speaker 6: get it in other areas. Not to get too deep,
Speaker 6: but I think it can sometimes become a more dangerous emotion,
Speaker 6: like shame, because we don't talk at all about this
Speaker 6: sort of stuff. I push it back down. I store
Speaker 6: my dad guilt in my appendix until I.
Speaker 4: Can reach into your appendix and just like, give me
Speaker 4: a couple of tangible examples of what you felt guilty about.
Speaker 6: Yeah, So we work so much these days. Life is
Speaker 6: so busy. I work from home, and my kids will
Speaker 6: often come to my door and want to play because
Speaker 6: they can't delineate when I'm working, when I'm not. Overall,
Speaker 6: I feel awful that I am missing out on key
Speaker 6: times with them, and I'm not connecting as much as
Speaker 6: I would like, a little voice in my head will
Speaker 6: be saying, you should have taught your three year old
Speaker 6: how to do backstroke. By now, you know, it's just
Speaker 6: an overriding feeling that I'm not with them enough, even
Speaker 6: though objectively I know that I am.
Speaker 2: As you can.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think presence would be a big one for
Speaker 5: particularly dads, because in a lot of cases they are
Speaker 5: the providers or often going off to work as well
Speaker 5: and not being there must play that part quite a bit.
Speaker 4: Can I ask you, do you feel guilty like if
Speaker 4: you went out with your mates? Like would you be like, oh,
Speaker 4: I feel bad for missing out of time with the
Speaker 4: kids and going out in a boys' night.
Speaker 6: Funnily enough, not at all.
Speaker 1: See, this is the key difference.
Speaker 2: This is different. This is the key difference.
Speaker 6: Our brains are different, so that won't hit us, but
Speaker 6: something more, I guess subconscious level. For us. In the
Speaker 6: old days, how could get by on one income and
Speaker 6: the man was the main provider. And because of the
Speaker 6: world we live in now cost of living, that's not
Speaker 6: attainable for most And my wife and I both have
Speaker 6: big career dreams, so we wouldn't want it that way.
Speaker 6: But for a lot of men, there's still this unspoken
Speaker 6: expectation that we need to be the main provider so
Speaker 6: that the family can kick back. Right now, an example,
Speaker 6: I saw that something on my algorithm last night. It
Speaker 6: might be a wealthy dad and for some reason, he's
Speaker 6: not wearing a top in the video but he's like,
Speaker 6: I've built wealth beyond my wildest dreams for my family,
Speaker 6: so my wife can relax and every day I can
Speaker 6: spend with my children. We've got a connection beyond words. Also,
Speaker 6: I bench press one hundred kilos before the kids have
Speaker 6: woken up every day because a father needs to be
Speaker 6: a warrior, you know, objectively, I know that's unrealistic, but
Speaker 6: that's the sort of stuff that is in the back
Speaker 6: of my mind anyway all the time.
Speaker 4: Right, and when men get together, like when you are
Speaker 4: on your boys' night and you're not feeling guilty about
Speaker 4: being on your boys' night away from the children, do
Speaker 4: you sort.
Speaker 2: Of sit around the mums at home with the child?
Speaker 4: Yeah, do you sit around and do you talk about
Speaker 4: these feelings or do you talk about, oh, you know,
Speaker 4: I feel bad I haven't seen the kids much lately,
Speaker 4: or is it really just sport?
Speaker 6: Oh man, this is going to disappoint you. We don't like.
Speaker 2: Really disappointing at all. It's what we expected.
Speaker 6: We're that surface level most of the time.
Speaker 2: Okay, I've got one.
Speaker 5: Do you feel guilty when you do something for yourself?
Speaker 5: So if you were like, oh, I've got us all back,
Speaker 5: so I'm gonna pop out and get a massage, or like, oh,
Speaker 5: I'm gonna go get a haircut because I'm jew or
Speaker 5: you know what, I'm just gonna go to the movie,
Speaker 5: Like there's this movie I want to see, So I'm
Speaker 5: going to go go watch a movie.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, when would I ever do that?
Speaker 2: I don't know when I would. But I was getting
Speaker 2: to the bottom of my example.
Speaker 1: Something for yourself.
Speaker 4: If you're doing something like solely of your own benefit,
Speaker 4: in your own time, by yourself self care.
Speaker 6: It's true. I've got a heavy self care routine that
Speaker 6: I implement, but I do have like a ticking clock
Speaker 6: in the back of my brain. So if I went
Speaker 6: to get a haircut and I knew Jessica had the
Speaker 6: kids at that point in time, I'm anxious to get
Speaker 6: back home. Yeah, and I would find it hard to
Speaker 6: relax in a massage.
Speaker 1: I've got more. I've got more.
Speaker 6: Yeah, do you worry?
Speaker 5: It is an interrogation, Tom, Yes, sorry, Thomas is going
Speaker 5: to be a casual chat.
Speaker 6: Another thing, Why am I strapped in this chair? What's
Speaker 6: this helmet I'm wearing?
Speaker 1: What about things like?
Speaker 4: So these were other things we're talking about before Oh,
Speaker 4: we're giving the kids too much screen time?
Speaker 1: Are we rotting their brains on screens? Are they eating enough? Broccoly?
Speaker 1: Are they nourish enough?
Speaker 4: Like do you sit around worrying about the things that
Speaker 4: you're not doing enough of or providing enough on that
Speaker 4: sort of tiny level and like micro level, do you
Speaker 4: worry about that stuff?
Speaker 6: Definitely not. I so I worry about screen time. That's
Speaker 6: massive for me because the research says too much of
Speaker 6: it ain't good. But when it comes to food, in
Speaker 6: comparison to my lovely wife Jessica, she will turn the
Speaker 6: packet over, consider all the minutia of what is exactly
Speaker 6: inside of it, and feel awful if we're giving them
Speaker 6: a prepackaged dinner. And she really absorbs the brunt of
Speaker 6: that guilt where that sort of stuff doesn't cross my mind. Yeah,
Speaker 6: and I'm just being honest.
Speaker 1: That is good.
Speaker 4: Has your wife ever pulled you up about the difference
Speaker 4: in labor or difference in guilt or mental load and
Speaker 4: all those things.
Speaker 6: Labor, no mental load. Absolutely, Like this is a huge
Speaker 6: thing in our marriage. Even over the weekend we were
Speaker 6: discussing it and I'm learning she's so awesome with a
Speaker 6: big picture. You know she might be doing those little
Speaker 6: annoying things like what's a childcare subsidy? Or when is
Speaker 6: Jones KINDI start date, Donnie has a Carols night coming up,
Speaker 6: and I might not even know about the Carols night
Speaker 6: until we're in the car. But I am making a
Speaker 6: huge effort. Here's an example. So I've got my big
Speaker 6: list of things to do and labor around the place.
Speaker 6: She's got her list of mental load, and I've said
Speaker 6: to her, I'm happy to take your list away and
Speaker 6: I'll do it. But it's her view that I'm still
Speaker 6: not alleviating mental load if it's not an original thought.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 5: If she's got to write you a list, it's still
Speaker 5: it's still her load.
Speaker 6: And in her delegating yeah, okay, that's still a work
Speaker 6: on for me. But as far as labor, we're very
Speaker 6: happy in that area. Like she does mornings with the children,
Speaker 6: I do the witching hour. Because of our work, I
Speaker 6: feel like that counts for double but that's another day.
Speaker 6: I do all the fixing odd jobs around the house,
Speaker 6: and then she might do a bit more of the planning.
Speaker 6: But overall, mental load is yeah, it's a big factor,
Speaker 6: and I'm still learning.
Speaker 4: Well, it sounds like you're giving it a really good crack,
Speaker 4: so good on you.
Speaker 6: We're on a journey, aren't we.
Speaker 8: All.
Speaker 4: Well, I feel like I've very much uncovered a lot
Speaker 4: of behind the mind of a man.
Speaker 6: Yeah, the inner sanc thing in his world.
Speaker 1: There's not a lot of guilt going on.
Speaker 6: That's what I mean by the look on your face, Annalise,
Speaker 6: there wasn't a single surprise in there.
Speaker 5: I just feel like it just comes down to wiring.
Speaker 5: We're wired differently.
Speaker 2: We really are.
Speaker 5: Absolutely are we wasting more mental load getting the shits
Speaker 5: at men for them home? It's like, why don't we
Speaker 5: just acknowledge we are wired differently? So let's think of
Speaker 5: some productive things to do. Like you said, Okay, if
Speaker 5: there's a bit of a list, I know it's not
Speaker 5: fixing the problem that you're still having to think of
Speaker 5: it first, but at least I can take a few
Speaker 5: things off that list, Like that's helpful.
Speaker 4: So we need to rewire our brains to be more
Speaker 4: like and literally, when we have that little pang of
Speaker 4: guilt rising up in your chest, out of your tummy
Speaker 4: into your heart, just push it down and say what
Speaker 4: would Tom do?
Speaker 2: Wwtt store it in your appendix.
Speaker 4: Oh, and then, and then, and then get your appendix
Speaker 4: removed and put it in the bin.
Speaker 2: I don't know, appendix. Maybe that's why I have so
Speaker 2: much guilt.
Speaker 1: No, mum, guilt's in the binch.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 1: We've solved it.
Speaker 6: You don't need it.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much, Tommy for sharing your your life
Speaker 4: and your lack of guilt and giving us a little
Speaker 4: peek behind the curtaining to your marriage behind.
Speaker 1: Tommy. Also, we are loving your.
Speaker 4: Silly and glorious songs and so our this glorious miss listeners.
Speaker 1: Please keep them coming.
Speaker 4: We're going to send you more challenges because it just
Speaker 4: brings so much joy at a time when we all
Speaker 4: really need it.
Speaker 6: I love doing it. I'm working on something for Christmas,
Speaker 6: so and mental load as well, because that's a yeah,
Speaker 6: that's a big thing. And I'm working on understanding Christmas
Speaker 6: mental loads. So that's on the way.
Speaker 2: We love it already.
Speaker 4: Well, I think that was great insight into even just
Speaker 4: opening up the conversation with your partner. I know it,
Speaker 4: Like I mentioned earlier, a lot of times I'm like,
Speaker 4: oh my god, I feel so guilty and just like
Speaker 4: what but just getting to understand each other's thought processes
Speaker 4: about the mental load and about feeling guilt and maybe
Speaker 4: how we can help each other. Yeah, I think I
Speaker 4: think it's an important conversation. I'm sure people are not
Speaker 4: having with their partners, Like Tom is one person, but
Speaker 4: Tom's very very good. I think that is the question. Like,
Speaker 4: that's what people can do, is like have a chat
Speaker 4: with your partner, like do you feel guilt and if so, why,
Speaker 4: and here's what I feel guilty about, and then you
Speaker 4: can actually start to maybe help ease the burden of.
Speaker 2: Each other's yet.
Speaker 5: And sometimes I like when I talk to Jason about
Speaker 5: how I feel guilty and then when he's like so
Speaker 5: like it kind of calms me down a bit because
Speaker 5: I'm like, oh, okay, all right, I'll just put that
Speaker 5: one back in my appendix.
Speaker 2: As Tom would say.
Speaker 1: So let's officially call it I'm guilt.
Speaker 2: I can't. I'm not sure if I can officially do.
Speaker 4: It, but I'll join the the way of risk the
Speaker 4: pencil in an operation for appendix and roove on next.
Speaker 5: Actually don't have any appendix. I'll join the ritual in
Speaker 5: binning the guilt. Yes, but we might have to do
Speaker 5: an update on whether or not it's working.
Speaker 4: It'll be an evolution. Yeah, I don't think this is
Speaker 4: going to happen checking in six months.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 5: Well, thank you for listening to this glorious mess. We've
Speaker 5: hoped you've binned your guilt and you've enjoyed the episode.
Speaker 5: And if you've loved it, we hope you could leave
Speaker 5: us a rating or review.
Speaker 4: And if you have a dilemma you'd like Sarah Marita
Speaker 4: solve or even maybe a song from Tom or anything
Speaker 4: else we can intommigate him on.
Speaker 2: We love intermmigating.
Speaker 4: Tell us what we can intomigate him on next. You
Speaker 4: can leave us a voice note by following the link
Speaker 4: in the show notes, or get in touch at TGM
Speaker 4: at mamamea dot com dot au, or find us on socials.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 5: This episode was produced by Grace we Breay with audio
Speaker 5: production by Lou Hill.
Speaker 1: Bye, see you next time.