WEBVTT - Mum Guilt Can Get In The Bin 0:00:21.290 --> 0:00:21.610 So much. 0:00:21.690 --> 0:00:24.370 You're listening to a Mother Mia podcast. 0:00:25.170 --> 0:00:28.450 Mumma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land. We 0:00:28.570 --> 0:00:31.930 have recorded this podcast on the Gadigul people of the 0:00:31.970 --> 0:00:35.650 Eor nation. We pay our respects to their elders past 0:00:35.730 --> 0:00:39.370 and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and 0:00:39.410 --> 0:00:41.130 Torres Right islander cultures. 0:00:41.370 --> 0:00:45.210 Hi It's analyse here from Muma MIA's parenting podcast, This 0:00:45.370 --> 0:00:46.530 Glorious Mess. 0:00:46.930 --> 0:00:49.330 Do you get mum guilt? I'm sure you. 0:00:49.370 --> 0:00:52.890 Do, whether it's about what you feel like you haven't done, 0:00:53.210 --> 0:00:56.250 or maybe it's about the things you have done, like 0:00:56.570 --> 0:00:58.130 a weekend away or. 0:00:58.050 --> 0:00:59.250 Just taking time for you. 0:01:00.210 --> 0:01:02.930 I'm dropping into your fee today to share an episode 0:01:03.010 --> 0:01:06.770 of This Glorious Mess all about mum guilt and to 0:01:06.850 --> 0:01:10.330 get the full perspective. We've invited a dad on the 0:01:10.370 --> 0:01:13.690 show to ask if he gets dad guilt. The answers 0:01:13.730 --> 0:01:16.450 will probably not shock you, but in some ways they 0:01:16.450 --> 0:01:20.330 also will surprise you. This is this glorious mess, and 0:01:20.850 --> 0:01:22.170 guilt can get. 0:01:22.170 --> 0:01:22.650 In the bin. 0:01:30.250 --> 0:01:34.170 Hello, and welcome to this Glorious Mess. We're embracing the 0:01:34.250 --> 0:01:38.570 chaos together, ditching the judgment. I'm Anali's todd and as 0:01:38.570 --> 0:01:39.050 well as. 0:01:39.050 --> 0:01:39.930 Ditching the judgment. 0:01:40.090 --> 0:01:42.970 We hope by the end of this episode we're ditching 0:01:43.010 --> 0:01:45.130 the guilt it needs to do on the bin Well, 0:01:45.290 --> 0:01:47.490 I'm teaking to Tolly and I'm a guilt to Hollegu, 0:01:47.570 --> 0:01:50.570 So I can't wait to find the guilt bin Well, 0:01:50.730 --> 0:01:52.850 I'm gonna help you find a teased because today on 0:01:52.890 --> 0:01:55.250 the show, we're diving into mum guilt, which. 0:01:55.130 --> 0:01:59.090 I hate that. I hate that that's even a term. 0:01:59.850 --> 0:02:03.810 Have you ever heard of dad guilt? No, no, you haven't. 0:02:04.930 --> 0:02:07.850 So while parent guilt is real for everyone, there's a 0:02:08.010 --> 0:02:11.290 unique type of guilt that many mothers experience, and it's 0:02:11.290 --> 0:02:14.850 something that impacts women in ways that men often don't feel. 0:02:14.890 --> 0:02:17.650 I think that we're going to find and it affects 0:02:17.730 --> 0:02:18.530 us every single day. 0:02:19.250 --> 0:02:23.930 I feel like mum guilt is a truly wired thing, 0:02:24.090 --> 0:02:28.050 like and as you are a mum, you're wiring completely changes. 0:02:27.930 --> 0:02:31.530 Or even I was thinking, for example, with my first pregnancy, 0:02:31.930 --> 0:02:35.250 all I could stomach was toasted cheese and tomato sandwiches, 0:02:35.290 --> 0:02:37.570 and then I felt guilty that I wasn't eating a 0:02:37.690 --> 0:02:40.530 range of nutrients because all I could eat was cheese, bread. 0:02:40.570 --> 0:02:44.890 My gosh, it starts, it starts so early and we'll 0:02:44.930 --> 0:02:47.610 go into that later. But my gosh, there's some real 0:02:47.810 --> 0:02:49.930 cans of worms to open in the guilt depart. 0:02:50.010 --> 0:02:52.170 Yeah, we want to hear from dads, and we're actually 0:02:52.210 --> 0:02:55.490 going to do that today, which I'm so excited for. 0:02:55.930 --> 0:03:00.970 She's got her interrogation ready to go, her intermigation because. 0:03:00.730 --> 0:03:03.490 We're actually going to chat to out this glorious mess 0:03:03.490 --> 0:03:05.610 songwriter and Dada three Tom lyons. 0:03:05.690 --> 0:03:07.650 Well, she says, we're going to chat, but she's got 0:03:07.650 --> 0:03:08.450 to intomigate him. 0:03:08.450 --> 0:03:11.170 I'm going to intermigate him because I want to find 0:03:11.490 --> 0:03:15.330 and really understand in heterosexual relationships, do they notice their 0:03:15.370 --> 0:03:17.570 partners carrying more guilt or even care? 0:03:18.050 --> 0:03:18.330 Yeah. 0:03:18.490 --> 0:03:19.850 See that's the interesting part. 0:03:20.010 --> 0:03:21.850 Like I say to my husband all the time, like, 0:03:21.890 --> 0:03:23.410 oh my god, I feel so guilty, and he'd be 0:03:23.410 --> 0:03:27.250 like why, Like he just can't even fathom what I 0:03:27.250 --> 0:03:31.130 would feel guilty about, let alone feel guilty himself. Like 0:03:31.170 --> 0:03:32.770 he doesn't even understand my guilt. 0:03:33.050 --> 0:03:34.810 It's not even a thought factor. 0:03:35.010 --> 0:03:36.570 If one of my kids are upset and we go 0:03:36.610 --> 0:03:38.210 out for dinner or something, I'd be like, oh, I 0:03:38.210 --> 0:03:40.250 feel really bad, Like why. 0:03:40.450 --> 0:03:42.010 Like what do you mean why? 0:03:42.450 --> 0:03:46.890 Yes, first foughtigus I would like to dive into what's 0:03:46.890 --> 0:03:50.810 happening in my group chat. Recently, I went on a 0:03:50.850 --> 0:03:52.050 little cruise holiday. 0:03:52.170 --> 0:03:53.530 Oh did you ever? 0:03:53.810 --> 0:03:54.210 I did? 0:03:54.450 --> 0:03:58.170 I watched it unfold yes on the Instagram. 0:03:57.650 --> 0:04:00.810 Watch what happens live otherwise on his analytics' Instagram stories. 0:04:01.530 --> 0:04:04.090 And I went with my sons and my mum and 0:04:04.850 --> 0:04:07.370 it was beautiful and we had fun. But what I 0:04:07.450 --> 0:04:11.090 realized was I was sitting by the pool and having 0:04:11.090 --> 0:04:13.490 a little day cocktail and I just didn't have to 0:04:13.570 --> 0:04:16.850 do anything. And the kids ran around and they had 0:04:16.930 --> 0:04:21.490 found holiday friends and started a new little commune. And 0:04:21.530 --> 0:04:24.650 I thought, this is the ideal mum holiday. And I 0:04:24.690 --> 0:04:26.730 sent a group to my girlfriends and I said, we 0:04:26.770 --> 0:04:29.250 need to come on a cruise. No men allowed, women 0:04:29.290 --> 0:04:32.330 and children only and just lie by the pool and 0:04:32.410 --> 0:04:34.410 let the kids just do all the things and you 0:04:34.410 --> 0:04:36.930 don't have to think how did they react? Because there 0:04:36.930 --> 0:04:40.730 are cruise people's and there are not cruise people. Surprisingly, 0:04:40.770 --> 0:04:43.170 one of my poodle friends, who I thought would not 0:04:43.250 --> 0:04:45.810 be a cruise person, said, I've just spoken to my sons. 0:04:45.810 --> 0:04:47.410 They're keene. I think we should do it. 0:04:47.490 --> 0:04:51.330 I have been longing for a cruise, like my husband 0:04:51.570 --> 0:04:52.250 is so not. 0:04:52.250 --> 0:04:54.090 A cruiserh my god, we'll go together. 0:04:54.170 --> 0:04:56.330 What I want to do is go on a cruise. Yes, 0:04:56.410 --> 0:04:57.450 I want buffet. 0:04:57.170 --> 0:05:00.170 Breakfast, no cooking, no cleaning, no washing, no thinking. 0:05:00.410 --> 0:05:03.850 I want a slippery dip thing on all the kids 0:05:03.890 --> 0:05:06.690 stuff that happens, shows and bingos by night. 0:05:06.850 --> 0:05:08.890 Group work and circle work on the dance floor. 0:05:08.930 --> 0:05:12.090 Oh, it's just everything in one place. I don't even 0:05:12.170 --> 0:05:13.130 have to drive anywhere. 0:05:13.250 --> 0:05:15.810 You're stuck in a boat with me. 0:05:17.770 --> 0:05:19.610 Okay, maybe I'm not a groupers anymore. 0:05:21.250 --> 0:05:25.250 The evolution of mum guilt, which we have decided we 0:05:25.290 --> 0:05:26.130 hate that phrase. 0:05:26.650 --> 0:05:28.850 Well, it just is what it is. 0:05:29.370 --> 0:05:31.090 I know, but I don't want it to be. 0:05:31.170 --> 0:05:34.010 But it is, But it is. It's a thing. It's 0:05:34.090 --> 0:05:35.010 not going away. 0:05:35.090 --> 0:05:37.050 Even if there was the guilt bin, it would all 0:05:37.090 --> 0:05:38.890 just still be sitting in the guilt. 0:05:38.610 --> 0:05:40.970 Bin, bubbling and boiling over like yeah. 0:05:40.690 --> 0:05:44.730 Like all together and like pondering and like an infection 0:05:45.570 --> 0:05:48.690 spreading and multiplying. 0:05:49.250 --> 0:05:50.970 Yes, it's like COVID in a bit. 0:05:52.890 --> 0:05:55.530 You know, motherhood really opened a can of worms for 0:05:55.610 --> 0:05:58.410 me because I was never a guilty person, because I'm 0:05:58.690 --> 0:06:00.610 such a goody goody, like I never really did anything 0:06:00.610 --> 0:06:03.490 to feel guilty about motherhood. I reckon, I feel guilty 0:06:03.530 --> 0:06:06.850 every single day. Yeah, definitely, there's a level of guilt. 0:06:06.890 --> 0:06:08.970 And yeah, like I said, mine started from the toasted 0:06:09.050 --> 0:06:11.290 cheese and tomato sandwiches when't Yeah. 0:06:11.130 --> 0:06:11.890 So same mine. 0:06:12.010 --> 0:06:14.010 So as soon as I found out I was having twins, 0:06:14.050 --> 0:06:16.010 I was like, oh my god, am I gonna love 0:06:16.090 --> 0:06:16.930 both of them enough? 0:06:17.250 --> 0:06:19.890 I'm not gonna have enough love or maybe I'm not 0:06:19.890 --> 0:06:22.090 gonna be moth of them enough. 0:06:22.890 --> 0:06:25.050 And then I had another one so quickly, so then 0:06:25.090 --> 0:06:28.330 it was like more guilt, like three times guilt. And 0:06:28.370 --> 0:06:30.850 then you feel so guilty that you need a break, 0:06:30.930 --> 0:06:33.010 and then you feel guilty about going on a brain. 0:06:33.090 --> 0:06:35.290 Yeah, you feel guilty because you want time away from them. 0:06:35.330 --> 0:06:37.130 Then you get time away from them, and then you 0:06:37.170 --> 0:06:39.210 feel guilty about sending time away from and then you 0:06:39.250 --> 0:06:41.610 go back to work, which is lovely, but then you 0:06:41.610 --> 0:06:43.050 feel really that's. 0:06:42.890 --> 0:06:45.930 When said, when I'm choosing the steam train of. 0:06:45.930 --> 0:06:49.410 Guilt, I am choosing to do this over that, Like 0:06:49.450 --> 0:06:50.770 that's when you're like guilt in. 0:06:50.770 --> 0:06:53.850 First dag and I remember, like, you know, scenes from 0:06:54.090 --> 0:06:56.650 picking up my youngest from daycare and he was like 0:06:56.770 --> 0:07:00.290 standing at the bars with his hands up screaming, and I. 0:07:00.330 --> 0:07:03.570 Was like, they haunt you forever, kid jail. And I'm like, 0:07:03.610 --> 0:07:05.210 how long has it we doing this? Just an hour 0:07:05.210 --> 0:07:07.090 and a half. And I was like, oh, oh, you 0:07:07.090 --> 0:07:09.330 could have liked you could have said thirty seconds. 0:07:09.370 --> 0:07:11.210 You know, I'll send me the text. He's fine now, yeah, 0:07:11.410 --> 0:07:12.930 just something like that anyway. 0:07:13.050 --> 0:07:15.730 So then even now, so like we've talked about the 0:07:15.810 --> 0:07:18.130 journey from the first moments of impregnation. 0:07:18.250 --> 0:07:18.570 Guilt. 0:07:19.490 --> 0:07:22.530 I feel guilty that I gave my twelve year old 0:07:22.570 --> 0:07:24.850 phone and he spends a lot of time on his phone. 0:07:24.930 --> 0:07:25.130 Yeah. 0:07:25.250 --> 0:07:27.690 I feel guilty about letting my youngest watch a lot 0:07:27.730 --> 0:07:28.370 of YouTube. 0:07:28.490 --> 0:07:29.170 Yep. Same. 0:07:29.610 --> 0:07:32.090 I feel guilty when I miss something at school, like 0:07:32.130 --> 0:07:33.450 an award or like. 0:07:33.410 --> 0:07:36.690 Oh they're the worst ones too, like because then they'll 0:07:36.730 --> 0:07:38.890 be like, oh why can't you come mom, or like 0:07:39.050 --> 0:07:40.290 oh you weren't there or. 0:07:40.250 --> 0:07:40.810 You missed it. 0:07:41.050 --> 0:07:41.650 Yeah. 0:07:41.730 --> 0:07:45.610 The other day, like Benjo was getting an award and 0:07:45.690 --> 0:07:49.010 he had walked himself into the principal's office and said, hey, 0:07:49.370 --> 0:07:52.010 I'm getting a book award. Like book awards are like, sorry, 0:07:52.050 --> 0:07:53.770 I'm gonna feel guilty about saying this, but not that 0:07:53.850 --> 0:07:54.610 much of a big. 0:07:54.410 --> 0:07:56.450 Deal, Like you just read. 0:07:56.290 --> 0:07:57.410 A certain amount of books. 0:07:57.450 --> 0:07:59.970 Like, yeah, now I tell guilty, but truly they're not 0:08:00.010 --> 0:08:01.970 that much of a big deal. He'd gone into the 0:08:01.970 --> 0:08:04.730 principal's office and said, Hey, I'm getting a book award. 0:08:04.810 --> 0:08:07.450 Can you call my mum and tell us she's got 0:08:07.450 --> 0:08:09.130 to come to assembly this sufternoon to watch for me 0:08:09.170 --> 0:08:11.730 to get it. So the principal emailed me and was like, hey, 0:08:12.010 --> 0:08:14.290 Banjo's just come in and asked me to tell you 0:08:14.370 --> 0:08:15.210 to come to assembly. 0:08:15.290 --> 0:08:16.890 But I couldn't come. So then what did I do 0:08:16.970 --> 0:08:17.370 all day? 0:08:17.610 --> 0:08:18.290 Felt guilty? 0:08:18.450 --> 0:08:20.490 Of course I did feel guilty all day. 0:08:20.810 --> 0:08:23.570 What was interesting becoming a single mum. It gave me 0:08:24.010 --> 0:08:26.810 so much time back so that now when I do 0:08:26.850 --> 0:08:29.810 things for myself, I don't have guilt because my kids aren't. 0:08:29.850 --> 0:08:33.370 There wasn't an option. It's like, oh, it's guilt free, 0:08:33.810 --> 0:08:35.170 old free time. 0:08:35.450 --> 0:08:38.570 So that's that is a relief because I've got time 0:08:38.730 --> 0:08:40.970 to do selfish things and I don't feel guilty about 0:08:41.290 --> 0:08:44.210 In terms of the working mother's guilt, I do have 0:08:44.330 --> 0:08:47.570 perspective on this. I was raised by a single mom 0:08:47.930 --> 0:08:50.890 who worked a billion hours, like eighty. 0:08:50.610 --> 0:08:52.410 Hour weeks, yeah, which is pretty rare. 0:08:52.690 --> 0:08:53.770 Yeah, for the nineties. 0:08:54.410 --> 0:08:56.330 She had her own business and she worked a lot, 0:08:56.410 --> 0:08:59.690 and I do have core memories of being a very 0:08:59.930 --> 0:09:02.730 wingy child like me and my sister crying at the door. 0:09:02.770 --> 0:09:05.570 She'd have clients over and we'd be like mum. And 0:09:05.610 --> 0:09:08.770 I know that she's crippled with guilt from that time 0:09:08.970 --> 0:09:11.090 and the time that she missed, and now she tries 0:09:11.130 --> 0:09:12.570 to overcompensate with my kids. 0:09:12.330 --> 0:09:14.810 And she's very, very very hands on her Grandmam when 0:09:14.850 --> 0:09:15.370 she's around. 0:09:15.890 --> 0:09:19.450 I will say that as an adult reflecting on that time, 0:09:20.010 --> 0:09:23.370 all I have is gratitude. I don't have memories of 0:09:23.370 --> 0:09:25.490 being like, oh, I wish my mum was here, you know, 0:09:25.490 --> 0:09:28.770 I wish mum was doing this. I don't have memories. Yes, 0:09:29.290 --> 0:09:32.610 actually her missing out on you're. 0:09:32.450 --> 0:09:36.170 Now looking back going wow, what she sacrificed for us, 0:09:36.250 --> 0:09:38.050 Like there's no bad. Oh she should feel really bad 0:09:38.090 --> 0:09:41.410 because she wass she missed my book award. 0:09:41.610 --> 0:09:44.330 And I don't care about that now. 0:09:44.690 --> 0:09:48.850 I can only just sort of live in gratitude and think, wow, 0:09:49.330 --> 0:09:50.130 look what she did. 0:09:50.210 --> 0:09:52.930 Yeah, the sad what she missed out on. Yeah, and 0:09:53.330 --> 0:09:53.970 thank you mum. 0:09:54.210 --> 0:09:57.010 And I hope and for anyone listening who's a working 0:09:57.050 --> 0:09:58.490 parent that is crippled by guilt. 0:09:58.890 --> 0:10:00.610 I hope that really you get that. 0:10:00.530 --> 0:10:02.770 Way off later in life when they're adults and they 0:10:02.810 --> 0:10:03.730 realize what you did. 0:10:03.930 --> 0:10:08.050 Yeah, because I am a guilty colleague, I try to 0:10:08.170 --> 0:10:12.690 remind myself that those are my feelings. Like no one's 0:10:13.450 --> 0:10:16.850 making me feel bad or expecting me to feel bad, 0:10:17.050 --> 0:10:19.130 do you know what I mean? Like no one said like, oh, well, 0:10:19.250 --> 0:10:21.690 you didn't show up and I'm so so you should do. 0:10:21.730 --> 0:10:23.090 But like you know what I mean, Like this is 0:10:23.210 --> 0:10:27.410 all my creation of my own expectations. It's almost like 0:10:27.850 --> 0:10:31.210 we're so hard on ourselves and how we expect to 0:10:31.250 --> 0:10:34.370 be all the things all the time. Like we've got 0:10:34.370 --> 0:10:36.170 to be there all the time. We've got to show 0:10:36.290 --> 0:10:38.930 up every time, we've got to have the perfect meal 0:10:39.050 --> 0:10:42.130 every time and stick to our boundaries. The guilt is 0:10:42.170 --> 0:10:43.610 coming from within myself. 0:10:43.690 --> 0:10:46.890 And if you actually isolate the feeling, someone can't make 0:10:46.930 --> 0:10:47.770 you feel guilty. 0:10:47.850 --> 0:10:50.330 No, it's completely from within yourself. 0:10:50.650 --> 0:10:52.690 But then that's when I need to realize to just 0:10:52.810 --> 0:10:53.250 shut up. 0:10:53.610 --> 0:10:55.970 Doesn't that mean if we can create it, can't we 0:10:56.010 --> 0:10:56.810 squash it? Oh? 0:10:56.890 --> 0:10:58.650 Well, live if you say so. 0:10:59.170 --> 0:11:01.730 We had a chat to some of the Muma Mere 0:11:01.850 --> 0:11:05.410 dad's and partners friends. We put a call out to 0:11:05.410 --> 0:11:08.810 this glorious mess listener, send us some of your dad 0:11:08.890 --> 0:11:10.650 voices because we want to hear from dads. 0:11:10.930 --> 0:11:13.370 Does your partner feel dad guilt? 0:11:13.450 --> 0:11:15.690 It's the same like do the men feel it? Our 0:11:15.810 --> 0:11:17.730 men and women wired differently. 0:11:17.890 --> 0:11:18.930 And here's what they had to say. 0:11:19.930 --> 0:11:22.850 I am sure that I have felt dad guilt. 0:11:23.130 --> 0:11:25.010 I can't think of the scenario. 0:11:25.170 --> 0:11:27.530 Maybe when I've upset her for some reason and I 0:11:27.530 --> 0:11:29.170 felt bad because she was crying. 0:11:29.650 --> 0:11:31.610 In the last couple of years, I spent a fair 0:11:31.650 --> 0:11:33.610 amount of time working from home, and it's made me 0:11:33.650 --> 0:11:35.570 realize how much I missed when I was in the 0:11:35.610 --> 0:11:38.450 office every single day. The little conversations when they get 0:11:38.490 --> 0:11:42.770 home from school, going to see their sports days, their parents' nights, 0:11:42.890 --> 0:11:47.290 their assemblies, stuff that I never got to do while 0:11:47.290 --> 0:11:49.730 I was working full time in an office because it 0:11:49.810 --> 0:11:52.410 was just too much to be able to somehow get 0:11:52.450 --> 0:11:54.810 home in time. But working from home has made me 0:11:55.250 --> 0:11:58.890 appreciate moments like that, but also realize what I've missed 0:11:58.930 --> 0:12:02.330 over the years. No, I don't feel any guilt. 0:12:02.490 --> 0:12:06.450 I do feel dad guilt because quite regularly I forget 0:12:06.530 --> 0:12:09.650 which days of the week are sports uniform day versus 0:12:09.850 --> 0:12:13.050 regular school uniform day, and after you're reminded constantly, I 0:12:13.090 --> 0:12:16.770 forget what the boys are doing after school continuously, whether 0:12:16.810 --> 0:12:20.370 it's football, whether it's basketball, whether it's swimming. Who would know? 0:12:20.730 --> 0:12:23.370 But I do actually feel really guilty about that dad guilt. 0:12:24.250 --> 0:12:35.130 What is that guilt? So we wanted to hear from 0:12:35.170 --> 0:12:38.170 the other side. We wanted to ask a man. 0:12:38.410 --> 0:12:42.770 We want the intel, the goths, the tea, and ask 0:12:42.890 --> 0:12:46.210 a dad about his parental guilt, if he has any, 0:12:46.370 --> 0:12:50.370 does it exist? Tom Lyon, welcome back to this glorious mess. 0:12:50.570 --> 0:12:53.610 Hello, it's so good to be back. I've been preparing 0:12:53.730 --> 0:12:58.010 for today talking about mental load with my wife last night, 0:12:58.130 --> 0:13:00.850 and I think, yeah, I've got a lot to learn, 0:13:00.930 --> 0:13:02.370 but I'm here to share guys. 0:13:02.530 --> 0:13:06.610 So, Tom, do you get dad guilt? And if so, 0:13:07.410 --> 0:13:09.290 on what type of issues. 0:13:08.930 --> 0:13:09.610 Do I get Dad? 0:13:09.690 --> 0:13:09.850 Well? 0:13:09.970 --> 0:13:14.570 Is the sky blue? I definitely get dad guilt. And 0:13:14.810 --> 0:13:17.570 I have to say, like hearing you guys before, mum 0:13:17.610 --> 0:13:21.250 guilt is far more pervasive than dad guilt. See everywhere 0:13:21.250 --> 0:13:23.930 for you, guys, I see that trade wives, trand and 0:13:24.010 --> 0:13:27.770 it's like you guys could be cooking a pasta. Are 0:13:27.810 --> 0:13:30.650 you cooking that pasta from scratch, or did you buy 0:13:30.850 --> 0:13:33.210 the shells from the shops? So I get it. It's 0:13:33.290 --> 0:13:37.890 more pervasive for you guys, but for men, we definitely 0:13:37.930 --> 0:13:41.490 get it in other areas. Not to get too deep, 0:13:41.530 --> 0:13:46.250 but I think it can sometimes become a more dangerous emotion, 0:13:46.610 --> 0:13:52.530 like shame, because we don't talk at all about this 0:13:52.610 --> 0:13:55.410 sort of stuff. I push it back down. I store 0:13:55.450 --> 0:13:59.570 my dad guilt in my appendix until I. 0:13:59.610 --> 0:14:02.410 Can reach into your appendix and just like, give me 0:14:02.530 --> 0:14:05.730 a couple of tangible examples of what you felt guilty about. 0:14:06.090 --> 0:14:09.010 Yeah, So we work so much these days. Life is 0:14:09.050 --> 0:14:11.890 so busy. I work from home, and my kids will 0:14:11.930 --> 0:14:14.890 often come to my door and want to play because 0:14:14.930 --> 0:14:18.330 they can't delineate when I'm working, when I'm not. Overall, 0:14:18.410 --> 0:14:22.530 I feel awful that I am missing out on key 0:14:22.650 --> 0:14:25.850 times with them, and I'm not connecting as much as 0:14:25.930 --> 0:14:28.210 I would like, a little voice in my head will 0:14:28.250 --> 0:14:30.290 be saying, you should have taught your three year old 0:14:30.290 --> 0:14:32.650 how to do backstroke. By now, you know, it's just 0:14:32.650 --> 0:14:36.090 an overriding feeling that I'm not with them enough, even 0:14:36.130 --> 0:14:39.210 though objectively I know that I am. 0:14:39.210 --> 0:14:39.850 As you can. 0:14:40.050 --> 0:14:42.370 Yeah, I think presence would be a big one for 0:14:42.610 --> 0:14:46.010 particularly dads, because in a lot of cases they are 0:14:46.050 --> 0:14:48.970 the providers or often going off to work as well 0:14:49.090 --> 0:14:52.610 and not being there must play that part quite a bit. 0:14:52.810 --> 0:14:56.330 Can I ask you, do you feel guilty like if 0:14:56.370 --> 0:15:00.570 you went out with your mates? Like would you be like, oh, 0:15:00.610 --> 0:15:02.330 I feel bad for missing out of time with the 0:15:02.410 --> 0:15:03.690 kids and going out in a boys' night. 0:15:03.890 --> 0:15:05.370 Funnily enough, not at all. 0:15:06.490 --> 0:15:07.970 See, this is the key difference. 0:15:08.170 --> 0:15:11.650 This is different. This is the key difference. 0:15:11.770 --> 0:15:15.090 Our brains are different, so that won't hit us, but 0:15:15.330 --> 0:15:19.170 something more, I guess subconscious level. For us. In the 0:15:19.170 --> 0:15:22.690 old days, how could get by on one income and 0:15:22.730 --> 0:15:26.770 the man was the main provider. And because of the 0:15:26.770 --> 0:15:29.410 world we live in now cost of living, that's not 0:15:29.450 --> 0:15:32.490 attainable for most And my wife and I both have 0:15:32.610 --> 0:15:35.410 big career dreams, so we wouldn't want it that way. 0:15:35.890 --> 0:15:38.970 But for a lot of men, there's still this unspoken 0:15:39.050 --> 0:15:43.570 expectation that we need to be the main provider so 0:15:43.610 --> 0:15:47.850 that the family can kick back. Right now, an example, 0:15:47.890 --> 0:15:50.930 I saw that something on my algorithm last night. It 0:15:51.050 --> 0:15:54.170 might be a wealthy dad and for some reason, he's 0:15:54.170 --> 0:15:57.490 not wearing a top in the video but he's like, 0:15:57.850 --> 0:16:01.050 I've built wealth beyond my wildest dreams for my family, 0:16:01.130 --> 0:16:05.450 so my wife can relax and every day I can 0:16:05.490 --> 0:16:09.210 spend with my children. We've got a connection beyond words. Also, 0:16:09.410 --> 0:16:11.970 I bench press one hundred kilos before the kids have 0:16:11.970 --> 0:16:14.290 woken up every day because a father needs to be 0:16:14.770 --> 0:16:20.970 a warrior, you know, objectively, I know that's unrealistic, but 0:16:21.530 --> 0:16:24.170 that's the sort of stuff that is in the back 0:16:24.210 --> 0:16:26.450 of my mind anyway all the time. 0:16:26.850 --> 0:16:29.610 Right, and when men get together, like when you are 0:16:29.610 --> 0:16:31.450 on your boys' night and you're not feeling guilty about 0:16:31.490 --> 0:16:34.370 being on your boys' night away from the children, do 0:16:34.410 --> 0:16:34.890 you sort. 0:16:34.770 --> 0:16:36.930 Of sit around the mums at home with the child? 0:16:37.050 --> 0:16:40.130 Yeah, do you sit around and do you talk about 0:16:40.170 --> 0:16:42.690 these feelings or do you talk about, oh, you know, 0:16:42.730 --> 0:16:44.970 I feel bad I haven't seen the kids much lately, 0:16:45.210 --> 0:16:46.650 or is it really just sport? 0:16:46.810 --> 0:16:51.450 Oh man, this is going to disappoint you. We don't like. 0:16:51.850 --> 0:16:55.530 Really disappointing at all. It's what we expected. 0:16:55.650 --> 0:16:57.730 We're that surface level most of the time. 0:16:58.050 --> 0:16:59.290 Okay, I've got one. 0:16:59.890 --> 0:17:03.170 Do you feel guilty when you do something for yourself? 0:17:03.250 --> 0:17:05.410 So if you were like, oh, I've got us all back, 0:17:05.450 --> 0:17:09.690 so I'm gonna pop out and get a massage, or like, oh, 0:17:09.850 --> 0:17:13.570 I'm gonna go get a haircut because I'm jew or 0:17:14.130 --> 0:17:17.170 you know what, I'm just gonna go to the movie, 0:17:17.210 --> 0:17:19.330 Like there's this movie I want to see, So I'm 0:17:19.330 --> 0:17:21.130 going to go go watch a movie. 0:17:21.450 --> 0:17:24.890 Yeah, I mean, when would I ever do that? 0:17:26.970 --> 0:17:29.130 I don't know when I would. But I was getting 0:17:29.170 --> 0:17:30.490 to the bottom of my example. 0:17:31.330 --> 0:17:32.330 Something for yourself. 0:17:32.330 --> 0:17:35.130 If you're doing something like solely of your own benefit, 0:17:35.250 --> 0:17:37.890 in your own time, by yourself self care. 0:17:39.770 --> 0:17:42.170 It's true. I've got a heavy self care routine that 0:17:42.250 --> 0:17:45.930 I implement, but I do have like a ticking clock 0:17:45.970 --> 0:17:47.690 in the back of my brain. So if I went 0:17:47.770 --> 0:17:50.570 to get a haircut and I knew Jessica had the 0:17:50.690 --> 0:17:53.730 kids at that point in time, I'm anxious to get 0:17:53.730 --> 0:17:56.330 back home. Yeah, and I would find it hard to 0:17:56.370 --> 0:17:58.770 relax in a massage. 0:17:59.530 --> 0:18:00.730 I've got more. I've got more. 0:18:01.050 --> 0:18:02.490 Yeah, do you worry? 0:18:02.530 --> 0:18:06.050 It is an interrogation, Tom, Yes, sorry, Thomas is going 0:18:06.090 --> 0:18:07.410 to be a casual chat. 0:18:08.290 --> 0:18:14.450 Another thing, Why am I strapped in this chair? What's 0:18:14.450 --> 0:18:15.610 this helmet I'm wearing? 0:18:17.850 --> 0:18:19.050 What about things like? 0:18:19.170 --> 0:18:21.730 So these were other things we're talking about before Oh, 0:18:21.770 --> 0:18:23.570 we're giving the kids too much screen time? 0:18:23.690 --> 0:18:26.490 Are we rotting their brains on screens? Are they eating enough? Broccoly? 0:18:26.690 --> 0:18:27.570 Are they nourish enough? 0:18:27.570 --> 0:18:29.890 Like do you sit around worrying about the things that 0:18:29.970 --> 0:18:33.370 you're not doing enough of or providing enough on that 0:18:33.410 --> 0:18:36.530 sort of tiny level and like micro level, do you 0:18:36.530 --> 0:18:37.530 worry about that stuff? 0:18:37.890 --> 0:18:42.370 Definitely not. I so I worry about screen time. That's 0:18:42.450 --> 0:18:46.850 massive for me because the research says too much of 0:18:46.890 --> 0:18:50.130 it ain't good. But when it comes to food, in 0:18:50.170 --> 0:18:53.810 comparison to my lovely wife Jessica, she will turn the 0:18:53.850 --> 0:18:57.810