1 00:00:21,290 --> 00:00:21,610 Speaker 1: So much. 2 00:00:21,690 --> 00:00:24,370 Speaker 2: You're listening to a Mother Mia podcast. 3 00:00:25,170 --> 00:00:28,450 Speaker 3: Mumma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land. We 4 00:00:28,570 --> 00:00:31,930 Speaker 3: have recorded this podcast on the Gadigul people of the 5 00:00:31,970 --> 00:00:35,650 Speaker 3: Eor nation. We pay our respects to their elders past 6 00:00:35,730 --> 00:00:39,370 Speaker 3: and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and 7 00:00:39,410 --> 00:00:41,130 Speaker 3: Torres Right islander cultures. 8 00:00:41,370 --> 00:00:45,210 Speaker 4: Hi It's analyse here from Muma MIA's parenting podcast, This 9 00:00:45,370 --> 00:00:46,530 Speaker 4: Glorious Mess. 10 00:00:46,930 --> 00:00:49,330 Speaker 1: Do you get mum guilt? I'm sure you. 11 00:00:49,370 --> 00:00:52,890 Speaker 4: Do, whether it's about what you feel like you haven't done, 12 00:00:53,210 --> 00:00:56,250 Speaker 4: or maybe it's about the things you have done, like 13 00:00:56,570 --> 00:00:58,130 Speaker 4: a weekend away or. 14 00:00:58,050 --> 00:00:59,250 Speaker 1: Just taking time for you. 15 00:01:00,210 --> 00:01:02,930 Speaker 4: I'm dropping into your fee today to share an episode 16 00:01:03,010 --> 00:01:06,770 Speaker 4: of This Glorious Mess all about mum guilt and to 17 00:01:06,850 --> 00:01:10,330 Speaker 4: get the full perspective. We've invited a dad on the 18 00:01:10,370 --> 00:01:13,690 Speaker 4: show to ask if he gets dad guilt. The answers 19 00:01:13,730 --> 00:01:16,450 Speaker 4: will probably not shock you, but in some ways they 20 00:01:16,450 --> 00:01:20,330 Speaker 4: also will surprise you. This is this glorious mess, and 21 00:01:20,850 --> 00:01:22,170 Speaker 4: guilt can get. 22 00:01:22,170 --> 00:01:22,650 Speaker 1: In the bin. 23 00:01:30,250 --> 00:01:34,170 Speaker 4: Hello, and welcome to this Glorious Mess. We're embracing the 24 00:01:34,250 --> 00:01:38,570 Speaker 4: chaos together, ditching the judgment. I'm Anali's todd and as 25 00:01:38,570 --> 00:01:39,050 Speaker 4: well as. 26 00:01:39,050 --> 00:01:39,930 Speaker 1: Ditching the judgment. 27 00:01:40,090 --> 00:01:42,970 Speaker 4: We hope by the end of this episode we're ditching 28 00:01:43,010 --> 00:01:45,130 Speaker 4: the guilt it needs to do on the bin Well, 29 00:01:45,290 --> 00:01:47,490 Speaker 4: I'm teaking to Tolly and I'm a guilt to Hollegu, 30 00:01:47,570 --> 00:01:50,570 Speaker 4: So I can't wait to find the guilt bin Well, 31 00:01:50,730 --> 00:01:52,850 Speaker 4: I'm gonna help you find a teased because today on 32 00:01:52,890 --> 00:01:55,250 Speaker 4: the show, we're diving into mum guilt, which. 33 00:01:55,130 --> 00:01:59,090 Speaker 1: I hate that. I hate that that's even a term. 34 00:01:59,850 --> 00:02:03,810 Speaker 4: Have you ever heard of dad guilt? No, no, you haven't. 35 00:02:04,930 --> 00:02:07,850 Speaker 4: So while parent guilt is real for everyone, there's a 36 00:02:08,010 --> 00:02:11,290 Speaker 4: unique type of guilt that many mothers experience, and it's 37 00:02:11,290 --> 00:02:14,850 Speaker 4: something that impacts women in ways that men often don't feel. 38 00:02:14,890 --> 00:02:17,650 Speaker 4: I think that we're going to find and it affects 39 00:02:17,730 --> 00:02:18,530 Speaker 4: us every single day. 40 00:02:19,250 --> 00:02:23,930 Speaker 5: I feel like mum guilt is a truly wired thing, 41 00:02:24,090 --> 00:02:28,050 Speaker 5: like and as you are a mum, you're wiring completely changes. 42 00:02:27,930 --> 00:02:31,530 Speaker 4: Or even I was thinking, for example, with my first pregnancy, 43 00:02:31,930 --> 00:02:35,250 Speaker 4: all I could stomach was toasted cheese and tomato sandwiches, 44 00:02:35,290 --> 00:02:37,570 Speaker 4: and then I felt guilty that I wasn't eating a 45 00:02:37,690 --> 00:02:40,530 Speaker 4: range of nutrients because all I could eat was cheese, bread. 46 00:02:40,570 --> 00:02:44,890 Speaker 5: My gosh, it starts, it starts so early and we'll 47 00:02:44,930 --> 00:02:47,610 Speaker 5: go into that later. But my gosh, there's some real 48 00:02:47,810 --> 00:02:49,930 Speaker 5: cans of worms to open in the guilt depart. 49 00:02:50,010 --> 00:02:52,170 Speaker 4: Yeah, we want to hear from dads, and we're actually 50 00:02:52,210 --> 00:02:55,490 Speaker 4: going to do that today, which I'm so excited for. 51 00:02:55,930 --> 00:03:00,970 Speaker 5: She's got her interrogation ready to go, her intermigation because. 52 00:03:00,730 --> 00:03:03,490 Speaker 4: We're actually going to chat to out this glorious mess 53 00:03:03,490 --> 00:03:05,610 Speaker 4: songwriter and Dada three Tom lyons. 54 00:03:05,690 --> 00:03:07,650 Speaker 5: Well, she says, we're going to chat, but she's got 55 00:03:07,650 --> 00:03:08,450 Speaker 5: to intomigate him. 56 00:03:08,450 --> 00:03:11,170 Speaker 4: I'm going to intermigate him because I want to find 57 00:03:11,490 --> 00:03:15,330 Speaker 4: and really understand in heterosexual relationships, do they notice their 58 00:03:15,370 --> 00:03:17,570 Speaker 4: partners carrying more guilt or even care? 59 00:03:18,050 --> 00:03:18,330 Speaker 1: Yeah. 60 00:03:18,490 --> 00:03:19,850 Speaker 2: See that's the interesting part. 61 00:03:20,010 --> 00:03:21,850 Speaker 5: Like I say to my husband all the time, like, 62 00:03:21,890 --> 00:03:23,410 Speaker 5: oh my god, I feel so guilty, and he'd be 63 00:03:23,410 --> 00:03:27,250 Speaker 5: like why, Like he just can't even fathom what I 64 00:03:27,250 --> 00:03:31,130 Speaker 5: would feel guilty about, let alone feel guilty himself. Like 65 00:03:31,170 --> 00:03:32,770 Speaker 5: he doesn't even understand my guilt. 66 00:03:33,050 --> 00:03:34,810 Speaker 1: It's not even a thought factor. 67 00:03:35,010 --> 00:03:36,570 Speaker 5: If one of my kids are upset and we go 68 00:03:36,610 --> 00:03:38,210 Speaker 5: out for dinner or something, I'd be like, oh, I 69 00:03:38,210 --> 00:03:40,250 Speaker 5: feel really bad, Like why. 70 00:03:40,450 --> 00:03:42,010 Speaker 2: Like what do you mean why? 71 00:03:42,450 --> 00:03:46,890 Speaker 4: Yes, first foughtigus I would like to dive into what's 72 00:03:46,890 --> 00:03:50,810 Speaker 4: happening in my group chat. Recently, I went on a 73 00:03:50,850 --> 00:03:52,050 Speaker 4: little cruise holiday. 74 00:03:52,170 --> 00:03:53,530 Speaker 2: Oh did you ever? 75 00:03:53,810 --> 00:03:54,210 Speaker 1: I did? 76 00:03:54,450 --> 00:03:58,170 Speaker 2: I watched it unfold yes on the Instagram. 77 00:03:57,650 --> 00:04:00,810 Speaker 4: Watch what happens live otherwise on his analytics' Instagram stories. 78 00:04:01,530 --> 00:04:04,090 Speaker 4: And I went with my sons and my mum and 79 00:04:04,850 --> 00:04:07,370 Speaker 4: it was beautiful and we had fun. But what I 80 00:04:07,450 --> 00:04:11,090 Speaker 4: realized was I was sitting by the pool and having 81 00:04:11,090 --> 00:04:13,490 Speaker 4: a little day cocktail and I just didn't have to 82 00:04:13,570 --> 00:04:16,850 Speaker 4: do anything. And the kids ran around and they had 83 00:04:16,930 --> 00:04:21,490 Speaker 4: found holiday friends and started a new little commune. And 84 00:04:21,530 --> 00:04:24,650 Speaker 4: I thought, this is the ideal mum holiday. And I 85 00:04:24,690 --> 00:04:26,730 Speaker 4: sent a group to my girlfriends and I said, we 86 00:04:26,770 --> 00:04:29,250 Speaker 4: need to come on a cruise. No men allowed, women 87 00:04:29,290 --> 00:04:32,330 Speaker 4: and children only and just lie by the pool and 88 00:04:32,410 --> 00:04:34,410 Speaker 4: let the kids just do all the things and you 89 00:04:34,410 --> 00:04:36,930 Speaker 4: don't have to think how did they react? Because there 90 00:04:36,930 --> 00:04:40,730 Speaker 4: are cruise people's and there are not cruise people. Surprisingly, 91 00:04:40,770 --> 00:04:43,170 Speaker 4: one of my poodle friends, who I thought would not 92 00:04:43,250 --> 00:04:45,810 Speaker 4: be a cruise person, said, I've just spoken to my sons. 93 00:04:45,810 --> 00:04:47,410 Speaker 1: They're keene. I think we should do it. 94 00:04:47,490 --> 00:04:51,330 Speaker 5: I have been longing for a cruise, like my husband 95 00:04:51,570 --> 00:04:52,250 Speaker 5: is so not. 96 00:04:52,250 --> 00:04:54,090 Speaker 1: A cruiserh my god, we'll go together. 97 00:04:54,170 --> 00:04:56,330 Speaker 2: What I want to do is go on a cruise. Yes, 98 00:04:56,410 --> 00:04:57,450 Speaker 2: I want buffet. 99 00:04:57,170 --> 00:05:00,170 Speaker 1: Breakfast, no cooking, no cleaning, no washing, no thinking. 100 00:05:00,410 --> 00:05:03,850 Speaker 5: I want a slippery dip thing on all the kids 101 00:05:03,890 --> 00:05:06,690 Speaker 5: stuff that happens, shows and bingos by night. 102 00:05:06,850 --> 00:05:08,890 Speaker 1: Group work and circle work on the dance floor. 103 00:05:08,930 --> 00:05:12,090 Speaker 5: Oh, it's just everything in one place. I don't even 104 00:05:12,170 --> 00:05:13,130 Speaker 5: have to drive anywhere. 105 00:05:13,250 --> 00:05:15,810 Speaker 1: You're stuck in a boat with me. 106 00:05:17,770 --> 00:05:19,610 Speaker 2: Okay, maybe I'm not a groupers anymore. 107 00:05:21,250 --> 00:05:25,250 Speaker 4: The evolution of mum guilt, which we have decided we 108 00:05:25,290 --> 00:05:26,130 Speaker 4: hate that phrase. 109 00:05:26,650 --> 00:05:28,850 Speaker 2: Well, it just is what it is. 110 00:05:29,370 --> 00:05:31,090 Speaker 1: I know, but I don't want it to be. 111 00:05:31,170 --> 00:05:34,010 Speaker 2: But it is, But it is. It's a thing. It's 112 00:05:34,090 --> 00:05:35,010 Speaker 2: not going away. 113 00:05:35,090 --> 00:05:37,050 Speaker 5: Even if there was the guilt bin, it would all 114 00:05:37,090 --> 00:05:38,890 Speaker 5: just still be sitting in the guilt. 115 00:05:38,610 --> 00:05:40,970 Speaker 1: Bin, bubbling and boiling over like yeah. 116 00:05:40,690 --> 00:05:44,730 Speaker 5: Like all together and like pondering and like an infection 117 00:05:45,570 --> 00:05:48,690 Speaker 5: spreading and multiplying. 118 00:05:49,250 --> 00:05:50,970 Speaker 2: Yes, it's like COVID in a bit. 119 00:05:52,890 --> 00:05:55,530 Speaker 5: You know, motherhood really opened a can of worms for 120 00:05:55,610 --> 00:05:58,410 Speaker 5: me because I was never a guilty person, because I'm 121 00:05:58,690 --> 00:06:00,610 Speaker 5: such a goody goody, like I never really did anything 122 00:06:00,610 --> 00:06:03,490 Speaker 5: to feel guilty about motherhood. I reckon, I feel guilty 123 00:06:03,530 --> 00:06:06,850 Speaker 5: every single day. Yeah, definitely, there's a level of guilt. 124 00:06:06,890 --> 00:06:08,970 Speaker 4: And yeah, like I said, mine started from the toasted 125 00:06:09,050 --> 00:06:11,290 Speaker 4: cheese and tomato sandwiches when't Yeah. 126 00:06:11,130 --> 00:06:11,890 Speaker 2: So same mine. 127 00:06:12,010 --> 00:06:14,010 Speaker 5: So as soon as I found out I was having twins, 128 00:06:14,050 --> 00:06:16,010 Speaker 5: I was like, oh my god, am I gonna love 129 00:06:16,090 --> 00:06:16,930 Speaker 5: both of them enough? 130 00:06:17,250 --> 00:06:19,890 Speaker 2: I'm not gonna have enough love or maybe I'm not 131 00:06:19,890 --> 00:06:22,090 Speaker 2: gonna be moth of them enough. 132 00:06:22,890 --> 00:06:25,050 Speaker 5: And then I had another one so quickly, so then 133 00:06:25,090 --> 00:06:28,330 Speaker 5: it was like more guilt, like three times guilt. And 134 00:06:28,370 --> 00:06:30,850 Speaker 5: then you feel so guilty that you need a break, 135 00:06:30,930 --> 00:06:33,010 Speaker 5: and then you feel guilty about going on a brain. 136 00:06:33,090 --> 00:06:35,290 Speaker 4: Yeah, you feel guilty because you want time away from them. 137 00:06:35,330 --> 00:06:37,130 Speaker 4: Then you get time away from them, and then you 138 00:06:37,170 --> 00:06:39,210 Speaker 4: feel guilty about sending time away from and then you 139 00:06:39,250 --> 00:06:41,610 Speaker 4: go back to work, which is lovely, but then you 140 00:06:41,610 --> 00:06:43,050 Speaker 4: feel really that's. 141 00:06:42,890 --> 00:06:45,930 Speaker 1: When said, when I'm choosing the steam train of. 142 00:06:45,930 --> 00:06:49,410 Speaker 5: Guilt, I am choosing to do this over that, Like 143 00:06:49,450 --> 00:06:50,770 Speaker 5: that's when you're like guilt in. 144 00:06:50,770 --> 00:06:53,850 Speaker 4: First dag and I remember, like, you know, scenes from 145 00:06:54,090 --> 00:06:56,650 Speaker 4: picking up my youngest from daycare and he was like 146 00:06:56,770 --> 00:07:00,290 Speaker 4: standing at the bars with his hands up screaming, and I. 147 00:07:00,330 --> 00:07:03,570 Speaker 1: Was like, they haunt you forever, kid jail. And I'm like, 148 00:07:03,610 --> 00:07:05,210 Speaker 1: how long has it we doing this? Just an hour 149 00:07:05,210 --> 00:07:07,090 Speaker 1: and a half. And I was like, oh, oh, you 150 00:07:07,090 --> 00:07:09,330 Speaker 1: could have liked you could have said thirty seconds. 151 00:07:09,370 --> 00:07:11,210 Speaker 5: You know, I'll send me the text. He's fine now, yeah, 152 00:07:11,410 --> 00:07:12,930 Speaker 5: just something like that anyway. 153 00:07:13,050 --> 00:07:15,730 Speaker 4: So then even now, so like we've talked about the 154 00:07:15,810 --> 00:07:18,130 Speaker 4: journey from the first moments of impregnation. 155 00:07:18,250 --> 00:07:18,570 Speaker 2: Guilt. 156 00:07:19,490 --> 00:07:22,530 Speaker 4: I feel guilty that I gave my twelve year old 157 00:07:22,570 --> 00:07:24,850 Speaker 4: phone and he spends a lot of time on his phone. 158 00:07:24,930 --> 00:07:25,130 Speaker 6: Yeah. 159 00:07:25,250 --> 00:07:27,690 Speaker 4: I feel guilty about letting my youngest watch a lot 160 00:07:27,730 --> 00:07:28,370 Speaker 4: of YouTube. 161 00:07:28,490 --> 00:07:29,170 Speaker 2: Yep. Same. 162 00:07:29,610 --> 00:07:32,090 Speaker 4: I feel guilty when I miss something at school, like 163 00:07:32,130 --> 00:07:33,450 Speaker 4: an award or like. 164 00:07:33,410 --> 00:07:36,690 Speaker 5: Oh they're the worst ones too, like because then they'll 165 00:07:36,730 --> 00:07:38,890 Speaker 5: be like, oh why can't you come mom, or like 166 00:07:39,050 --> 00:07:40,290 Speaker 5: oh you weren't there or. 167 00:07:40,250 --> 00:07:40,810 Speaker 2: You missed it. 168 00:07:41,050 --> 00:07:41,650 Speaker 1: Yeah. 169 00:07:41,730 --> 00:07:45,610 Speaker 5: The other day, like Benjo was getting an award and 170 00:07:45,690 --> 00:07:49,010 Speaker 5: he had walked himself into the principal's office and said, hey, 171 00:07:49,370 --> 00:07:52,010 Speaker 5: I'm getting a book award. Like book awards are like, sorry, 172 00:07:52,050 --> 00:07:53,770 Speaker 5: I'm gonna feel guilty about saying this, but not that 173 00:07:53,850 --> 00:07:54,610 Speaker 5: much of a big. 174 00:07:54,410 --> 00:07:56,450 Speaker 1: Deal, Like you just read. 175 00:07:56,290 --> 00:07:57,410 Speaker 2: A certain amount of books. 176 00:07:57,450 --> 00:07:59,970 Speaker 5: Like, yeah, now I tell guilty, but truly they're not 177 00:08:00,010 --> 00:08:01,970 Speaker 5: that much of a big deal. He'd gone into the 178 00:08:01,970 --> 00:08:04,730 Speaker 5: principal's office and said, Hey, I'm getting a book award. 179 00:08:04,810 --> 00:08:07,450 Speaker 5: Can you call my mum and tell us she's got 180 00:08:07,450 --> 00:08:09,130 Speaker 5: to come to assembly this sufternoon to watch for me 181 00:08:09,170 --> 00:08:11,730 Speaker 5: to get it. So the principal emailed me and was like, hey, 182 00:08:12,010 --> 00:08:14,290 Speaker 5: Banjo's just come in and asked me to tell you 183 00:08:14,370 --> 00:08:15,210 Speaker 5: to come to assembly. 184 00:08:15,290 --> 00:08:16,890 Speaker 2: But I couldn't come. So then what did I do 185 00:08:16,970 --> 00:08:17,370 Speaker 2: all day? 186 00:08:17,610 --> 00:08:18,290 Speaker 1: Felt guilty? 187 00:08:18,450 --> 00:08:20,490 Speaker 2: Of course I did feel guilty all day. 188 00:08:20,810 --> 00:08:23,570 Speaker 4: What was interesting becoming a single mum. It gave me 189 00:08:24,010 --> 00:08:26,810 Speaker 4: so much time back so that now when I do 190 00:08:26,850 --> 00:08:29,810 Speaker 4: things for myself, I don't have guilt because my kids aren't. 191 00:08:29,850 --> 00:08:33,370 Speaker 1: There wasn't an option. It's like, oh, it's guilt free, 192 00:08:33,810 --> 00:08:35,170 Speaker 1: old free time. 193 00:08:35,450 --> 00:08:38,570 Speaker 4: So that's that is a relief because I've got time 194 00:08:38,730 --> 00:08:40,970 Speaker 4: to do selfish things and I don't feel guilty about 195 00:08:41,290 --> 00:08:44,210 Speaker 4: In terms of the working mother's guilt, I do have 196 00:08:44,330 --> 00:08:47,570 Speaker 4: perspective on this. I was raised by a single mom 197 00:08:47,930 --> 00:08:50,890 Speaker 4: who worked a billion hours, like eighty. 198 00:08:50,610 --> 00:08:52,410 Speaker 2: Hour weeks, yeah, which is pretty rare. 199 00:08:52,690 --> 00:08:53,770 Speaker 1: Yeah, for the nineties. 200 00:08:54,410 --> 00:08:56,330 Speaker 4: She had her own business and she worked a lot, 201 00:08:56,410 --> 00:08:59,690 Speaker 4: and I do have core memories of being a very 202 00:08:59,930 --> 00:09:02,730 Speaker 4: wingy child like me and my sister crying at the door. 203 00:09:02,770 --> 00:09:05,570 Speaker 4: She'd have clients over and we'd be like mum. And 204 00:09:05,610 --> 00:09:08,770 Speaker 4: I know that she's crippled with guilt from that time 205 00:09:08,970 --> 00:09:11,090 Speaker 4: and the time that she missed, and now she tries 206 00:09:11,130 --> 00:09:12,570 Speaker 4: to overcompensate with my kids. 207 00:09:12,330 --> 00:09:14,810 Speaker 1: And she's very, very very hands on her Grandmam when 208 00:09:14,850 --> 00:09:15,370 Speaker 1: she's around. 209 00:09:15,890 --> 00:09:19,450 Speaker 4: I will say that as an adult reflecting on that time, 210 00:09:20,010 --> 00:09:23,370 Speaker 4: all I have is gratitude. I don't have memories of 211 00:09:23,370 --> 00:09:25,490 Speaker 4: being like, oh, I wish my mum was here, you know, 212 00:09:25,490 --> 00:09:28,770 Speaker 4: I wish mum was doing this. I don't have memories. Yes, 213 00:09:29,290 --> 00:09:32,610 Speaker 4: actually her missing out on you're. 214 00:09:32,450 --> 00:09:36,170 Speaker 5: Now looking back going wow, what she sacrificed for us, 215 00:09:36,250 --> 00:09:38,050 Speaker 5: Like there's no bad. Oh she should feel really bad 216 00:09:38,090 --> 00:09:41,410 Speaker 5: because she wass she missed my book award. 217 00:09:41,610 --> 00:09:44,330 Speaker 1: And I don't care about that now. 218 00:09:44,690 --> 00:09:48,850 Speaker 4: I can only just sort of live in gratitude and think, wow, 219 00:09:49,330 --> 00:09:50,130 Speaker 4: look what she did. 220 00:09:50,210 --> 00:09:52,930 Speaker 1: Yeah, the sad what she missed out on. Yeah, and 221 00:09:53,330 --> 00:09:53,970 Speaker 1: thank you mum. 222 00:09:54,210 --> 00:09:57,010 Speaker 4: And I hope and for anyone listening who's a working 223 00:09:57,050 --> 00:09:58,490 Speaker 4: parent that is crippled by guilt. 224 00:09:58,890 --> 00:10:00,610 Speaker 1: I hope that really you get that. 225 00:10:00,530 --> 00:10:02,770 Speaker 4: Way off later in life when they're adults and they 226 00:10:02,810 --> 00:10:03,730 Speaker 4: realize what you did. 227 00:10:03,930 --> 00:10:08,050 Speaker 5: Yeah, because I am a guilty colleague, I try to 228 00:10:08,170 --> 00:10:12,690 Speaker 5: remind myself that those are my feelings. Like no one's 229 00:10:13,450 --> 00:10:16,850 Speaker 5: making me feel bad or expecting me to feel bad, 230 00:10:17,050 --> 00:10:19,130 Speaker 5: do you know what I mean? Like no one said like, oh, well, 231 00:10:19,250 --> 00:10:21,690 Speaker 5: you didn't show up and I'm so so you should do. 232 00:10:21,730 --> 00:10:23,090 Speaker 5: But like you know what I mean, Like this is 233 00:10:23,210 --> 00:10:27,410 Speaker 5: all my creation of my own expectations. It's almost like 234 00:10:27,850 --> 00:10:31,210 Speaker 5: we're so hard on ourselves and how we expect to 235 00:10:31,250 --> 00:10:34,370 Speaker 5: be all the things all the time. Like we've got 236 00:10:34,370 --> 00:10:36,170 Speaker 5: to be there all the time. We've got to show 237 00:10:36,290 --> 00:10:38,930 Speaker 5: up every time, we've got to have the perfect meal 238 00:10:39,050 --> 00:10:42,130 Speaker 5: every time and stick to our boundaries. The guilt is 239 00:10:42,170 --> 00:10:43,610 Speaker 5: coming from within myself. 240 00:10:43,690 --> 00:10:46,890 Speaker 4: And if you actually isolate the feeling, someone can't make 241 00:10:46,930 --> 00:10:47,770 Speaker 4: you feel guilty. 242 00:10:47,850 --> 00:10:50,330 Speaker 1: No, it's completely from within yourself. 243 00:10:50,650 --> 00:10:52,690 Speaker 2: But then that's when I need to realize to just 244 00:10:52,810 --> 00:10:53,250 Speaker 2: shut up. 245 00:10:53,610 --> 00:10:55,970 Speaker 4: Doesn't that mean if we can create it, can't we 246 00:10:56,010 --> 00:10:56,810 Speaker 4: squash it? Oh? 247 00:10:56,890 --> 00:10:58,650 Speaker 2: Well, live if you say so. 248 00:10:59,170 --> 00:11:01,730 Speaker 4: We had a chat to some of the Muma Mere 249 00:11:01,850 --> 00:11:05,410 Speaker 4: dad's and partners friends. We put a call out to 250 00:11:05,410 --> 00:11:08,810 Speaker 4: this glorious mess listener, send us some of your dad 251 00:11:08,890 --> 00:11:10,650 Speaker 4: voices because we want to hear from dads. 252 00:11:10,930 --> 00:11:13,370 Speaker 1: Does your partner feel dad guilt? 253 00:11:13,450 --> 00:11:15,690 Speaker 5: It's the same like do the men feel it? Our 254 00:11:15,810 --> 00:11:17,730 Speaker 5: men and women wired differently. 255 00:11:17,890 --> 00:11:18,930 Speaker 1: And here's what they had to say. 256 00:11:19,930 --> 00:11:22,850 Speaker 2: I am sure that I have felt dad guilt. 257 00:11:23,130 --> 00:11:25,010 Speaker 6: I can't think of the scenario. 258 00:11:25,170 --> 00:11:27,530 Speaker 3: Maybe when I've upset her for some reason and I 259 00:11:27,530 --> 00:11:29,170 Speaker 3: felt bad because she was crying. 260 00:11:29,650 --> 00:11:31,610 Speaker 7: In the last couple of years, I spent a fair 261 00:11:31,650 --> 00:11:33,610 Speaker 7: amount of time working from home, and it's made me 262 00:11:33,650 --> 00:11:35,570 Speaker 7: realize how much I missed when I was in the 263 00:11:35,610 --> 00:11:38,450 Speaker 7: office every single day. The little conversations when they get 264 00:11:38,490 --> 00:11:42,770 Speaker 7: home from school, going to see their sports days, their parents' nights, 265 00:11:42,890 --> 00:11:47,290 Speaker 7: their assemblies, stuff that I never got to do while 266 00:11:47,290 --> 00:11:49,730 Speaker 7: I was working full time in an office because it 267 00:11:49,810 --> 00:11:52,410 Speaker 7: was just too much to be able to somehow get 268 00:11:52,450 --> 00:11:54,810 Speaker 7: home in time. But working from home has made me 269 00:11:55,250 --> 00:11:58,890 Speaker 7: appreciate moments like that, but also realize what I've missed 270 00:11:58,930 --> 00:12:02,330 Speaker 7: over the years. No, I don't feel any guilt. 271 00:12:02,490 --> 00:12:06,450 Speaker 8: I do feel dad guilt because quite regularly I forget 272 00:12:06,530 --> 00:12:09,650 Speaker 8: which days of the week are sports uniform day versus 273 00:12:09,850 --> 00:12:13,050 Speaker 8: regular school uniform day, and after you're reminded constantly, I 274 00:12:13,090 --> 00:12:16,770 Speaker 8: forget what the boys are doing after school continuously, whether 275 00:12:16,810 --> 00:12:20,370 Speaker 8: it's football, whether it's basketball, whether it's swimming. Who would know? 276 00:12:20,730 --> 00:12:23,370 Speaker 8: But I do actually feel really guilty about that dad guilt. 277 00:12:24,250 --> 00:12:35,130 Speaker 1: What is that guilt? So we wanted to hear from 278 00:12:35,170 --> 00:12:38,170 Speaker 1: the other side. We wanted to ask a man. 279 00:12:38,410 --> 00:12:42,770 Speaker 4: We want the intel, the goths, the tea, and ask 280 00:12:42,890 --> 00:12:46,210 Speaker 4: a dad about his parental guilt, if he has any, 281 00:12:46,370 --> 00:12:50,370 Speaker 4: does it exist? Tom Lyon, welcome back to this glorious mess. 282 00:12:50,570 --> 00:12:53,610 Speaker 6: Hello, it's so good to be back. I've been preparing 283 00:12:53,730 --> 00:12:58,010 Speaker 6: for today talking about mental load with my wife last night, 284 00:12:58,130 --> 00:13:00,850 Speaker 6: and I think, yeah, I've got a lot to learn, 285 00:13:00,930 --> 00:13:02,370 Speaker 6: but I'm here to share guys. 286 00:13:02,530 --> 00:13:06,610 Speaker 4: So, Tom, do you get dad guilt? And if so, 287 00:13:07,410 --> 00:13:09,290 Speaker 4: on what type of issues. 288 00:13:08,930 --> 00:13:09,610 Speaker 6: Do I get Dad? 289 00:13:09,690 --> 00:13:09,850 Speaker 8: Well? 290 00:13:09,970 --> 00:13:14,570 Speaker 6: Is the sky blue? I definitely get dad guilt. And 291 00:13:14,810 --> 00:13:17,570 Speaker 6: I have to say, like hearing you guys before, mum 292 00:13:17,610 --> 00:13:21,250 Speaker 6: guilt is far more pervasive than dad guilt. See everywhere 293 00:13:21,250 --> 00:13:23,930 Speaker 6: for you, guys, I see that trade wives, trand and 294 00:13:24,010 --> 00:13:27,770 Speaker 6: it's like you guys could be cooking a pasta. Are 295 00:13:27,810 --> 00:13:30,650 Speaker 6: you cooking that pasta from scratch, or did you buy 296 00:13:30,850 --> 00:13:33,210 Speaker 6: the shells from the shops? So I get it. It's 297 00:13:33,290 --> 00:13:37,890 Speaker 6: more pervasive for you guys, but for men, we definitely 298 00:13:37,930 --> 00:13:41,490 Speaker 6: get it in other areas. Not to get too deep, 299 00:13:41,530 --> 00:13:46,250 Speaker 6: but I think it can sometimes become a more dangerous emotion, 300 00:13:46,610 --> 00:13:52,530 Speaker 6: like shame, because we don't talk at all about this 301 00:13:52,610 --> 00:13:55,410 Speaker 6: sort of stuff. I push it back down. I store 302 00:13:55,450 --> 00:13:59,570 Speaker 6: my dad guilt in my appendix until I. 303 00:13:59,610 --> 00:14:02,410 Speaker 4: Can reach into your appendix and just like, give me 304 00:14:02,530 --> 00:14:05,730 Speaker 4: a couple of tangible examples of what you felt guilty about. 305 00:14:06,090 --> 00:14:09,010 Speaker 6: Yeah, So we work so much these days. Life is 306 00:14:09,050 --> 00:14:11,890 Speaker 6: so busy. I work from home, and my kids will 307 00:14:11,930 --> 00:14:14,890 Speaker 6: often come to my door and want to play because 308 00:14:14,930 --> 00:14:18,330 Speaker 6: they can't delineate when I'm working, when I'm not. Overall, 309 00:14:18,410 --> 00:14:22,530 Speaker 6: I feel awful that I am missing out on key 310 00:14:22,650 --> 00:14:25,850 Speaker 6: times with them, and I'm not connecting as much as 311 00:14:25,930 --> 00:14:28,210 Speaker 6: I would like, a little voice in my head will 312 00:14:28,250 --> 00:14:30,290 Speaker 6: be saying, you should have taught your three year old 313 00:14:30,290 --> 00:14:32,650 Speaker 6: how to do backstroke. By now, you know, it's just 314 00:14:32,650 --> 00:14:36,090 Speaker 6: an overriding feeling that I'm not with them enough, even 315 00:14:36,130 --> 00:14:39,210 Speaker 6: though objectively I know that I am. 316 00:14:39,210 --> 00:14:39,850 Speaker 2: As you can. 317 00:14:40,050 --> 00:14:42,370 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think presence would be a big one for 318 00:14:42,610 --> 00:14:46,010 Speaker 5: particularly dads, because in a lot of cases they are 319 00:14:46,050 --> 00:14:48,970 Speaker 5: the providers or often going off to work as well 320 00:14:49,090 --> 00:14:52,610 Speaker 5: and not being there must play that part quite a bit. 321 00:14:52,810 --> 00:14:56,330 Speaker 4: Can I ask you, do you feel guilty like if 322 00:14:56,370 --> 00:15:00,570 Speaker 4: you went out with your mates? Like would you be like, oh, 323 00:15:00,610 --> 00:15:02,330 Speaker 4: I feel bad for missing out of time with the 324 00:15:02,410 --> 00:15:03,690 Speaker 4: kids and going out in a boys' night. 325 00:15:03,890 --> 00:15:05,370 Speaker 6: Funnily enough, not at all. 326 00:15:06,490 --> 00:15:07,970 Speaker 1: See, this is the key difference. 327 00:15:08,170 --> 00:15:11,650 Speaker 2: This is different. This is the key difference. 328 00:15:11,770 --> 00:15:15,090 Speaker 6: Our brains are different, so that won't hit us, but 329 00:15:15,330 --> 00:15:19,170 Speaker 6: something more, I guess subconscious level. For us. In the 330 00:15:19,170 --> 00:15:22,690 Speaker 6: old days, how could get by on one income and 331 00:15:22,730 --> 00:15:26,770 Speaker 6: the man was the main provider. And because of the 332 00:15:26,770 --> 00:15:29,410 Speaker 6: world we live in now cost of living, that's not 333 00:15:29,450 --> 00:15:32,490 Speaker 6: attainable for most And my wife and I both have 334 00:15:32,610 --> 00:15:35,410 Speaker 6: big career dreams, so we wouldn't want it that way. 335 00:15:35,890 --> 00:15:38,970 Speaker 6: But for a lot of men, there's still this unspoken 336 00:15:39,050 --> 00:15:43,570 Speaker 6: expectation that we need to be the main provider so 337 00:15:43,610 --> 00:15:47,850 Speaker 6: that the family can kick back. Right now, an example, 338 00:15:47,890 --> 00:15:50,930 Speaker 6: I saw that something on my algorithm last night. It 339 00:15:51,050 --> 00:15:54,170 Speaker 6: might be a wealthy dad and for some reason, he's 340 00:15:54,170 --> 00:15:57,490 Speaker 6: not wearing a top in the video but he's like, 341 00:15:57,850 --> 00:16:01,050 Speaker 6: I've built wealth beyond my wildest dreams for my family, 342 00:16:01,130 --> 00:16:05,450 Speaker 6: so my wife can relax and every day I can 343 00:16:05,490 --> 00:16:09,210 Speaker 6: spend with my children. We've got a connection beyond words. Also, 344 00:16:09,410 --> 00:16:11,970 Speaker 6: I bench press one hundred kilos before the kids have 345 00:16:11,970 --> 00:16:14,290 Speaker 6: woken up every day because a father needs to be 346 00:16:14,770 --> 00:16:20,970 Speaker 6: a warrior, you know, objectively, I know that's unrealistic, but 347 00:16:21,530 --> 00:16:24,170 Speaker 6: that's the sort of stuff that is in the back 348 00:16:24,210 --> 00:16:26,450 Speaker 6: of my mind anyway all the time. 349 00:16:26,850 --> 00:16:29,610 Speaker 4: Right, and when men get together, like when you are 350 00:16:29,610 --> 00:16:31,450 Speaker 4: on your boys' night and you're not feeling guilty about 351 00:16:31,490 --> 00:16:34,370 Speaker 4: being on your boys' night away from the children, do 352 00:16:34,410 --> 00:16:34,890 Speaker 4: you sort. 353 00:16:34,770 --> 00:16:36,930 Speaker 2: Of sit around the mums at home with the child? 354 00:16:37,050 --> 00:16:40,130 Speaker 4: Yeah, do you sit around and do you talk about 355 00:16:40,170 --> 00:16:42,690 Speaker 4: these feelings or do you talk about, oh, you know, 356 00:16:42,730 --> 00:16:44,970 Speaker 4: I feel bad I haven't seen the kids much lately, 357 00:16:45,210 --> 00:16:46,650 Speaker 4: or is it really just sport? 358 00:16:46,810 --> 00:16:51,450 Speaker 6: Oh man, this is going to disappoint you. We don't like. 359 00:16:51,850 --> 00:16:55,530 Speaker 2: Really disappointing at all. It's what we expected. 360 00:16:55,650 --> 00:16:57,730 Speaker 6: We're that surface level most of the time. 361 00:16:58,050 --> 00:16:59,290 Speaker 2: Okay, I've got one. 362 00:16:59,890 --> 00:17:03,170 Speaker 5: Do you feel guilty when you do something for yourself? 363 00:17:03,250 --> 00:17:05,410 Speaker 5: So if you were like, oh, I've got us all back, 364 00:17:05,450 --> 00:17:09,690 Speaker 5: so I'm gonna pop out and get a massage, or like, oh, 365 00:17:09,850 --> 00:17:13,570 Speaker 5: I'm gonna go get a haircut because I'm jew or 366 00:17:14,130 --> 00:17:17,170 Speaker 5: you know what, I'm just gonna go to the movie, 367 00:17:17,210 --> 00:17:19,330 Speaker 5: Like there's this movie I want to see, So I'm 368 00:17:19,330 --> 00:17:21,130 Speaker 5: going to go go watch a movie. 369 00:17:21,450 --> 00:17:24,890 Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, when would I ever do that? 370 00:17:26,970 --> 00:17:29,130 Speaker 2: I don't know when I would. But I was getting 371 00:17:29,170 --> 00:17:30,490 Speaker 2: to the bottom of my example. 372 00:17:31,330 --> 00:17:32,330 Speaker 1: Something for yourself. 373 00:17:32,330 --> 00:17:35,130 Speaker 4: If you're doing something like solely of your own benefit, 374 00:17:35,250 --> 00:17:37,890 Speaker 4: in your own time, by yourself self care. 375 00:17:39,770 --> 00:17:42,170 Speaker 6: It's true. I've got a heavy self care routine that 376 00:17:42,250 --> 00:17:45,930 Speaker 6: I implement, but I do have like a ticking clock 377 00:17:45,970 --> 00:17:47,690 Speaker 6: in the back of my brain. So if I went 378 00:17:47,770 --> 00:17:50,570 Speaker 6: to get a haircut and I knew Jessica had the 379 00:17:50,690 --> 00:17:53,730 Speaker 6: kids at that point in time, I'm anxious to get 380 00:17:53,730 --> 00:17:56,330 Speaker 6: back home. Yeah, and I would find it hard to 381 00:17:56,370 --> 00:17:58,770 Speaker 6: relax in a massage. 382 00:17:59,530 --> 00:18:00,730 Speaker 1: I've got more. I've got more. 383 00:18:01,050 --> 00:18:02,490 Speaker 6: Yeah, do you worry? 384 00:18:02,530 --> 00:18:06,050 Speaker 5: It is an interrogation, Tom, Yes, sorry, Thomas is going 385 00:18:06,090 --> 00:18:07,410 Speaker 5: to be a casual chat. 386 00:18:08,290 --> 00:18:14,450 Speaker 6: Another thing, Why am I strapped in this chair? What's 387 00:18:14,450 --> 00:18:15,610 Speaker 6: this helmet I'm wearing? 388 00:18:17,850 --> 00:18:19,050 Speaker 1: What about things like? 389 00:18:19,170 --> 00:18:21,730 Speaker 4: So these were other things we're talking about before Oh, 390 00:18:21,770 --> 00:18:23,570 Speaker 4: we're giving the kids too much screen time? 391 00:18:23,690 --> 00:18:26,490 Speaker 1: Are we rotting their brains on screens? Are they eating enough? Broccoly? 392 00:18:26,690 --> 00:18:27,570 Speaker 1: Are they nourish enough? 393 00:18:27,570 --> 00:18:29,890 Speaker 4: Like do you sit around worrying about the things that 394 00:18:29,970 --> 00:18:33,370 Speaker 4: you're not doing enough of or providing enough on that 395 00:18:33,410 --> 00:18:36,530 Speaker 4: sort of tiny level and like micro level, do you 396 00:18:36,530 --> 00:18:37,530 Speaker 4: worry about that stuff? 397 00:18:37,890 --> 00:18:42,370 Speaker 6: Definitely not. I so I worry about screen time. That's 398 00:18:42,450 --> 00:18:46,850 Speaker 6: massive for me because the research says too much of 399 00:18:46,890 --> 00:18:50,130 Speaker 6: it ain't good. But when it comes to food, in 400 00:18:50,170 --> 00:18:53,810 Speaker 6: comparison to my lovely wife Jessica, she will turn the 401 00:18:53,850 --> 00:18:57,810 Speaker 6: packet over, consider all the minutia of what is exactly 402 00:18:57,930 --> 00:19:01,970 Speaker 6: inside of it, and feel awful if we're giving them 403 00:19:01,970 --> 00:19:07,010 Speaker 6: a prepackaged dinner. And she really absorbs the brunt of 404 00:19:07,050 --> 00:19:11,330 Speaker 6: that guilt where that sort of stuff doesn't cross my mind. Yeah, 405 00:19:11,730 --> 00:19:13,010 Speaker 6: and I'm just being honest. 406 00:19:13,210 --> 00:19:13,650 Speaker 1: That is good. 407 00:19:14,050 --> 00:19:17,210 Speaker 4: Has your wife ever pulled you up about the difference 408 00:19:17,370 --> 00:19:20,050 Speaker 4: in labor or difference in guilt or mental load and 409 00:19:20,090 --> 00:19:20,570 Speaker 4: all those things. 410 00:19:20,850 --> 00:19:25,490 Speaker 6: Labor, no mental load. Absolutely, Like this is a huge 411 00:19:26,330 --> 00:19:29,210 Speaker 6: thing in our marriage. Even over the weekend we were 412 00:19:29,250 --> 00:19:33,050 Speaker 6: discussing it and I'm learning she's so awesome with a 413 00:19:33,090 --> 00:19:35,810 Speaker 6: big picture. You know she might be doing those little 414 00:19:36,050 --> 00:19:39,450 Speaker 6: annoying things like what's a childcare subsidy? Or when is 415 00:19:39,570 --> 00:19:43,930 Speaker 6: Jones KINDI start date, Donnie has a Carols night coming up, 416 00:19:44,010 --> 00:19:46,770 Speaker 6: and I might not even know about the Carols night 417 00:19:46,850 --> 00:19:51,250 Speaker 6: until we're in the car. But I am making a 418 00:19:51,370 --> 00:19:55,170 Speaker 6: huge effort. Here's an example. So I've got my big 419 00:19:55,210 --> 00:19:58,570 Speaker 6: list of things to do and labor around the place. 420 00:19:58,930 --> 00:20:02,370 Speaker 6: She's got her list of mental load, and I've said 421 00:20:02,370 --> 00:20:05,650 Speaker 6: to her, I'm happy to take your list away and 422 00:20:05,810 --> 00:20:09,090 Speaker 6: I'll do it. But it's her view that I'm still 423 00:20:09,090 --> 00:20:13,130 Speaker 6: not alleviating mental load if it's not an original thought. 424 00:20:13,370 --> 00:20:14,010 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. 425 00:20:15,050 --> 00:20:17,410 Speaker 5: If she's got to write you a list, it's still 426 00:20:17,730 --> 00:20:18,770 Speaker 5: it's still her load. 427 00:20:18,930 --> 00:20:22,810 Speaker 6: And in her delegating yeah, okay, that's still a work 428 00:20:22,850 --> 00:20:25,890 Speaker 6: on for me. But as far as labor, we're very 429 00:20:26,050 --> 00:20:29,930 Speaker 6: happy in that area. Like she does mornings with the children, 430 00:20:30,130 --> 00:20:32,730 Speaker 6: I do the witching hour. Because of our work, I 431 00:20:32,730 --> 00:20:35,730 Speaker 6: feel like that counts for double but that's another day. 432 00:20:36,530 --> 00:20:40,530 Speaker 6: I do all the fixing odd jobs around the house, 433 00:20:40,570 --> 00:20:43,410 Speaker 6: and then she might do a bit more of the planning. 434 00:20:43,450 --> 00:20:47,370 Speaker 6: But overall, mental load is yeah, it's a big factor, 435 00:20:47,410 --> 00:20:49,370 Speaker 6: and I'm still learning. 436 00:20:49,610 --> 00:20:52,130 Speaker 4: Well, it sounds like you're giving it a really good crack, 437 00:20:52,330 --> 00:20:53,450 Speaker 4: so good on you. 438 00:20:53,530 --> 00:20:54,930 Speaker 6: We're on a journey, aren't we. 439 00:20:55,010 --> 00:20:55,210 Speaker 8: All. 440 00:20:55,450 --> 00:20:58,610 Speaker 4: Well, I feel like I've very much uncovered a lot 441 00:20:58,610 --> 00:21:01,090 Speaker 4: of behind the mind of a man. 442 00:21:01,450 --> 00:21:03,370 Speaker 6: Yeah, the inner sanc thing in his world. 443 00:21:04,570 --> 00:21:05,850 Speaker 1: There's not a lot of guilt going on. 444 00:21:06,090 --> 00:21:09,050 Speaker 6: That's what I mean by the look on your face, Annalise, 445 00:21:09,090 --> 00:21:11,170 Speaker 6: there wasn't a single surprise in there. 446 00:21:11,530 --> 00:21:14,010 Speaker 5: I just feel like it just comes down to wiring. 447 00:21:14,130 --> 00:21:15,810 Speaker 5: We're wired differently. 448 00:21:15,650 --> 00:21:16,370 Speaker 2: We really are. 449 00:21:16,570 --> 00:21:19,410 Speaker 5: Absolutely are we wasting more mental load getting the shits 450 00:21:19,450 --> 00:21:21,730 Speaker 5: at men for them home? It's like, why don't we 451 00:21:21,810 --> 00:21:25,010 Speaker 5: just acknowledge we are wired differently? So let's think of 452 00:21:25,130 --> 00:21:27,730 Speaker 5: some productive things to do. Like you said, Okay, if 453 00:21:27,770 --> 00:21:29,330 Speaker 5: there's a bit of a list, I know it's not 454 00:21:29,370 --> 00:21:31,450 Speaker 5: fixing the problem that you're still having to think of 455 00:21:31,450 --> 00:21:33,490 Speaker 5: it first, but at least I can take a few 456 00:21:33,530 --> 00:21:35,490 Speaker 5: things off that list, Like that's helpful. 457 00:21:35,570 --> 00:21:37,730 Speaker 4: So we need to rewire our brains to be more 458 00:21:37,810 --> 00:21:41,130 Speaker 4: like and literally, when we have that little pang of 459 00:21:41,170 --> 00:21:43,930 Speaker 4: guilt rising up in your chest, out of your tummy 460 00:21:44,170 --> 00:21:46,250 Speaker 4: into your heart, just push it down and say what 461 00:21:46,290 --> 00:21:46,850 Speaker 4: would Tom do? 462 00:21:47,330 --> 00:21:50,170 Speaker 2: Wwtt store it in your appendix. 463 00:21:50,490 --> 00:21:52,810 Speaker 4: Oh, and then, and then, and then get your appendix 464 00:21:52,850 --> 00:21:53,890 Speaker 4: removed and put it in the bin. 465 00:21:54,130 --> 00:21:56,130 Speaker 2: I don't know, appendix. Maybe that's why I have so 466 00:21:56,210 --> 00:21:56,730 Speaker 2: much guilt. 467 00:21:57,290 --> 00:21:58,530 Speaker 1: No, mum, guilt's in the binch. 468 00:21:59,090 --> 00:21:59,530 Speaker 2: That's it. 469 00:22:00,010 --> 00:22:00,730 Speaker 1: We've solved it. 470 00:22:00,810 --> 00:22:01,490 Speaker 6: You don't need it. 471 00:22:01,530 --> 00:22:04,130 Speaker 4: Thank you so much, Tommy for sharing your your life 472 00:22:04,250 --> 00:22:07,370 Speaker 4: and your lack of guilt and giving us a little 473 00:22:07,530 --> 00:22:10,090 Speaker 4: peek behind the curtaining to your marriage behind. 474 00:22:12,610 --> 00:22:16,090 Speaker 1: Tommy. Also, we are loving your. 475 00:22:15,930 --> 00:22:20,410 Speaker 4: Silly and glorious songs and so our this glorious miss listeners. 476 00:22:20,410 --> 00:22:21,450 Speaker 1: Please keep them coming. 477 00:22:21,450 --> 00:22:23,890 Speaker 4: We're going to send you more challenges because it just 478 00:22:23,890 --> 00:22:26,530 Speaker 4: brings so much joy at a time when we all 479 00:22:26,570 --> 00:22:27,170 Speaker 4: really need it. 480 00:22:27,650 --> 00:22:30,130 Speaker 6: I love doing it. I'm working on something for Christmas, 481 00:22:30,530 --> 00:22:35,690 Speaker 6: so and mental load as well, because that's a yeah, 482 00:22:35,730 --> 00:22:39,570 Speaker 6: that's a big thing. And I'm working on understanding Christmas 483 00:22:39,610 --> 00:22:41,610 Speaker 6: mental loads. So that's on the way. 484 00:22:41,970 --> 00:22:46,850 Speaker 2: We love it already. 485 00:22:51,450 --> 00:22:54,410 Speaker 4: Well, I think that was great insight into even just 486 00:22:54,490 --> 00:22:57,450 Speaker 4: opening up the conversation with your partner. I know it, 487 00:22:57,530 --> 00:22:59,610 Speaker 4: Like I mentioned earlier, a lot of times I'm like, 488 00:22:59,650 --> 00:23:01,810 Speaker 4: oh my god, I feel so guilty and just like 489 00:23:01,810 --> 00:23:06,010 Speaker 4: what but just getting to understand each other's thought processes 490 00:23:06,050 --> 00:23:08,970 Speaker 4: about the mental load and about feeling guilt and maybe 491 00:23:09,010 --> 00:23:11,290 Speaker 4: how we can help each other. Yeah, I think I 492 00:23:11,370 --> 00:23:14,010 Speaker 4: think it's an important conversation. I'm sure people are not 493 00:23:14,090 --> 00:23:19,090 Speaker 4: having with their partners, Like Tom is one person, but 494 00:23:19,130 --> 00:23:23,090 Speaker 4: Tom's very very good. I think that is the question. Like, 495 00:23:23,130 --> 00:23:25,290 Speaker 4: that's what people can do, is like have a chat 496 00:23:25,290 --> 00:23:28,050 Speaker 4: with your partner, like do you feel guilt and if so, why, 497 00:23:28,090 --> 00:23:29,930 Speaker 4: and here's what I feel guilty about, and then you 498 00:23:29,970 --> 00:23:32,850 Speaker 4: can actually start to maybe help ease the burden of. 499 00:23:32,770 --> 00:23:34,130 Speaker 2: Each other's yet. 500 00:23:34,290 --> 00:23:36,850 Speaker 5: And sometimes I like when I talk to Jason about 501 00:23:36,890 --> 00:23:38,930 Speaker 5: how I feel guilty and then when he's like so 502 00:23:39,290 --> 00:23:42,450 Speaker 5: like it kind of calms me down a bit because 503 00:23:42,450 --> 00:23:44,850 Speaker 5: I'm like, oh, okay, all right, I'll just put that 504 00:23:44,890 --> 00:23:46,210 Speaker 5: one back in my appendix. 505 00:23:46,250 --> 00:23:47,810 Speaker 2: As Tom would say. 506 00:23:47,530 --> 00:23:50,810 Speaker 1: So let's officially call it I'm guilt. 507 00:23:51,170 --> 00:23:53,930 Speaker 2: I can't. I'm not sure if I can officially do. 508 00:23:53,970 --> 00:23:56,650 Speaker 4: It, but I'll join the the way of risk the 509 00:23:57,730 --> 00:24:00,250 Speaker 4: pencil in an operation for appendix and roove on next. 510 00:24:00,290 --> 00:24:03,410 Speaker 5: Actually don't have any appendix. I'll join the ritual in 511 00:24:03,650 --> 00:24:06,250 Speaker 5: binning the guilt. Yes, but we might have to do 512 00:24:06,290 --> 00:24:08,130 Speaker 5: an update on whether or not it's working. 513 00:24:08,370 --> 00:24:10,610 Speaker 4: It'll be an evolution. Yeah, I don't think this is 514 00:24:10,650 --> 00:24:12,490 Speaker 4: going to happen checking in six months. 515 00:24:12,770 --> 00:24:13,850 Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it. 516 00:24:14,090 --> 00:24:16,130 Speaker 5: Well, thank you for listening to this glorious mess. We've 517 00:24:16,130 --> 00:24:18,850 Speaker 5: hoped you've binned your guilt and you've enjoyed the episode. 518 00:24:18,930 --> 00:24:20,810 Speaker 5: And if you've loved it, we hope you could leave 519 00:24:20,890 --> 00:24:22,170 Speaker 5: us a rating or review. 520 00:24:22,330 --> 00:24:25,050 Speaker 4: And if you have a dilemma you'd like Sarah Marita 521 00:24:25,130 --> 00:24:28,730 Speaker 4: solve or even maybe a song from Tom or anything 522 00:24:28,770 --> 00:24:30,330 Speaker 4: else we can intommigate him on. 523 00:24:30,650 --> 00:24:32,570 Speaker 2: We love intermmigating. 524 00:24:32,690 --> 00:24:35,250 Speaker 4: Tell us what we can intomigate him on next. You 525 00:24:35,290 --> 00:24:37,170 Speaker 4: can leave us a voice note by following the link 526 00:24:37,210 --> 00:24:39,010 Speaker 4: in the show notes, or get in touch at TGM 527 00:24:39,090 --> 00:24:42,170 Speaker 4: at mamamea dot com dot au, or find us on socials. 528 00:24:42,410 --> 00:24:42,610 Speaker 3: Yes. 529 00:24:42,730 --> 00:24:45,370 Speaker 5: This episode was produced by Grace we Breay with audio 530 00:24:45,370 --> 00:24:46,450 Speaker 5: production by Lou Hill. 531 00:24:46,650 --> 00:24:47,730 Speaker 1: Bye, see you next time.