Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello and Welcome to
Speaker 2: Mama Mia out Loud. It's what women are actually talking
Speaker 2: about on Monday, the eighth of July.
Speaker 1: I'm Holly Wainwright, I'm Mia Friedman.
Speaker 3: And I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 2: And on the show today, Mia gave me the challenge
Speaker 2: of making the UK election results interesting and relevant to Australia.
Speaker 2: Watch Me Die Trying. Also, there's a new Nicole Kidman
Speaker 2: movie out, and as usual, everyone's talking about what's been
Speaker 2: done to a face, but it's not her face. And
Speaker 2: what is a high value woman clue? It's a dog whistle.
Speaker 2: Let us explain.
Speaker 4: But first, Jesse, I'm a recovering victim of eyebrow blindness.
Speaker 3: In case you missed it, Apparently we're all experiencing eyebrow blindness,
Speaker 3: coined by TikTok creators as everything is eyebrow blindness for
Speaker 3: to our habit of shaping our eyebrows according to the
Speaker 3: latest trends rather than what actually suits us, meaning that
Speaker 3: we inevitably look back in horror. Essentially even now we
Speaker 3: are blind to whether our eyebrows look good or not
Speaker 3: every now and then. I don't know if you guys
Speaker 3: have experienced this. I feel as though I get a
Speaker 3: moment of clarity where I look in the mirror and
Speaker 3: I go, no, you do look ridiculous. You look ridiculous.
Speaker 3: And I've gone this far because of an Instagram reel
Speaker 3: I watched that told me to fill in my eyebrows
Speaker 3: a lot. I think I'm still a little bit stuck
Speaker 3: on the Kara Delavine moment when we had the really
Speaker 3: bold eyebrows and you brush them up and try and
Speaker 3: give more and more volume. And I remember thinking this too.
Speaker 3: With the eyebrow lamination trend. I saw an influencer do
Speaker 3: it once and I just went, it's two months. We'll
Speaker 3: look back and go, you look ridiculous because you look
Speaker 3: a little bit like you've been electrocuted, because it's all
Speaker 3: up up and like stuck to your face. And it
Speaker 3: happens very very quickly. Do you guys have eyebrow blindness?
Speaker 4: I'm in a full blown eyebrow crisis. So eyebrows are
Speaker 4: not usually something that I notice, but my eyebrows have
Speaker 4: become really sparse and I don't pluck them. I haven't
Speaker 4: pluck them for years, except for you know, the stray
Speaker 4: ones that are going down towards my.
Speaker 1: Eyelashes for a party.
Speaker 4: But I am just finding that they're getting really sparse,
Speaker 4: and so I've been thinking about microblading.
Speaker 1: I'm finding that they.
Speaker 3: Require microblading feels through permanent tattooing.
Speaker 4: It's like semi permanent tattooing, so it basically just draws
Speaker 4: on your eyebrows.
Speaker 1: So you don't have to do everything.
Speaker 2: Cause I don't have eyebrows because I'm fair naturally, my
Speaker 2: eyebrows are invisible, and yet they are the bushiest body
Speaker 2: hair I have. And now that I'm bolding like you
Speaker 2: Mia in my eyebrow department, I'm like one of those
Speaker 2: men who combs over the bolding bits. So I take
Speaker 2: the really long curly ones and I get the eyebrow
Speaker 2: gel and I try to stick it over the bits,
Speaker 2: and then I tend them and I die.
Speaker 5: The lot.
Speaker 1: There's a whole lot of eyebrow comb over.
Speaker 2: A comb over that.
Speaker 3: Is me is a microblading thing. I feel like you'll
Speaker 3: do whatever's trendy now and then in five years when
Speaker 3: no eyebrowses are the cool thing, Holly. I mean, all
Speaker 3: she has to do is not die hers for a minute,
Speaker 3: and she's going to be the coolest person at the party.
Speaker 3: It's true.
Speaker 4: It's why I say to all young women, don't laser
Speaker 4: off all your pubes because when the bush comes back.
Speaker 3: Do you think we have bush blindness?
Speaker 4: Well? No, I think everyone's fairly aware of their bush.
Speaker 4: If I asked you to describe your bush now, like
Speaker 4: I imagine you could do it.
Speaker 3: But are we blind to what actually looks good on
Speaker 3: our particular bush? And are we instead just going with
Speaker 3: the trends?
Speaker 1: Maybe?
Speaker 2: Isn't it with your bush? It bore suits your personality
Speaker 2: than your body a little less personality forward, bushes are
Speaker 2: very specific.
Speaker 3: Landing strip still a thing because I think a landing
Speaker 3: strip looking back was very a mustache for your bits
Speaker 3: like you look back, and that was never cool. But
Speaker 3: we did it because I think sex and the City
Speaker 3: told us to.
Speaker 4: Well, the bush won't be able to make a comeback
Speaker 4: when all the gin Z's and millennials have lasered everything
Speaker 4: to oblivion. Then when they all need mercans, maybe I
Speaker 4: need an eyebrown merkin.
Speaker 2: Yes, I definitely do so if you stammer there thanking
Speaker 2: and greeting the supporters, the beaming smile as he shakes hands.
Speaker 6: I have just returned from Buckingham Palace, where I accepted
Speaker 6: an invitation from His Majesty the King to form the
Speaker 6: next government of this great nation.
Speaker 2: The UK has a new Prime minister and nobody cares
Speaker 2: at all. At least that's what Mia told me in
Speaker 2: our funning meeting this morning. But it's so relevant and
Speaker 2: so interesting and so canarian a coal mine. I said,
Speaker 2: we're going to have an election here next year.
Speaker 4: I said, Look, and I said, I am so deep
Speaker 4: in panic and rage the US election. I don't have
Speaker 4: time to care about the elections in other countries that
Speaker 4: I also don't live in.
Speaker 2: But this is why you need to write. Because we're
Speaker 2: having an election next year. France is having one right now,
Speaker 2: America's having one. Politics is sexy at the moment.
Speaker 1: Well, I would say politics is drunk and it needs
Speaker 1: to go hard.
Speaker 2: That is also true, and that's why when I was
Speaker 2: telling you this, she just started taking pictures of the
Speaker 2: cuff of Jesse's jeans and jangling her shoe jewelry. I
Speaker 2: was so good here are my three attempts to get
Speaker 2: mea to care about international politics and by extension, everybody else.
Speaker 3: I will give you one point to start with, which
Speaker 3: is that I keep reading this stat that almost half
Speaker 3: of the world's population is going to the polls this
Speaker 3: year twenty twenty four. Watershed moment will change the course
Speaker 3: of history. Because of how many elections are happening, we
Speaker 3: should be keeping a closer It.
Speaker 2: Makes me terrify a close eye. Okay, first thing, although
Speaker 2: Kirstarmer and Labor did win a massive landslide victory, the
Speaker 2: shit skirt, which is the analogy we invented when Theresa
Speaker 2: May got that job a long time ago, and basically
Speaker 2: means that yes, you win, but you end up wearing
Speaker 2: a whole lot of stinky mess that the other people
Speaker 2: left behind is definitely what Kia is going to be
Speaker 2: modeling this season, because Britain is still in a right
Speaker 2: mess and the Tories might have a very long way back.
Speaker 2: But he's got a lot to do for me.
Speaker 3: Here.
Speaker 2: Kiir Sarma, they said he ran a ming var's campaign,
Speaker 2: meaning like fragile, don't touch it, like it just low target,
Speaker 2: small target, don't look at me. Let's just stand here
Speaker 2: and let the others just lose it.
Speaker 3: And then we discussed last week that he has Friday
Speaker 3: nights off.
Speaker 2: And he has Friday nights off, etc. Anyway, he and
Speaker 2: his party, the Labor Party, won a historic four hundred
Speaker 2: and twelve seats, which is a lot more than they needed.
Speaker 2: So greedy. But also when you consider that the Tories,
Speaker 2: who were the party who had been in power and
Speaker 2: they're the next major party, only won one hundred and
Speaker 2: twenty one seats.
Speaker 4: Why were people so angry with them? Apart from you know,
Speaker 4: Boris Johnson.
Speaker 2: Which was because they'd had fourteen years in power and
Speaker 2: Britain is in a terrible state, remember that whole Brexit situation.
Speaker 2: M He's in the toilet, a whole lot of stuff,
Speaker 2: public services are failing. So on the surface it looks
Speaker 2: like wow, amazing, right, Keir Starmer and the Labor Party
Speaker 2: killed it. But only fifty nine percent of the people
Speaker 2: eligible to vote voted, so it's not compulsory. Almost half
Speaker 2: of the people who could vote in Britain just went
Speaker 2: neither of these two thanks, and of those people who did,
Speaker 2: only thirty four percent of them actually voted for Labor.
Speaker 2: It's just that the way that the electoral system vote
Speaker 2: works there, which I won't tell you about because please
Speaker 2: don't stab me with her cake knife necklace. There's just
Speaker 2: a general apathy summed up by this.
Speaker 5: Dude serious invob I mean you put another pickhead in
Speaker 5: charge with a great smiley space when he's one life wrilliant.
Speaker 5: But for a year we're back to pits por agan
Speaker 5: I mean serious hipov And honestly it's a joke. It's
Speaker 5: a fing joke. So like I said, you see ai Lot, Yeah,
Speaker 5: who would have win the votes get the Ai Lot
Speaker 5: to run the country.
Speaker 2: This ardly points to the point that we've got it
Speaker 2: right with forcing people to vote here, because you end
Speaker 2: up with a more representative result. Let's free will. That's
Speaker 2: the takeaway. Number two. Holly Valance had a good night?
Speaker 3: Did she?
Speaker 2: She did?
Speaker 3: I would have thought she was the poster girl for
Speaker 3: the he had a good night.
Speaker 2: So we talked a while ago about how one of
Speaker 2: the biggest movers and shakers in UK right wing politics
Speaker 2: used to be a literal mover and shaker from the
Speaker 2: two thousand and two banger Kiss Kiss also Melbane's own Flicksculli. Anyway,
Speaker 2: she gave the Reform UK Party a massive check and
Speaker 2: then helped them to raise another one point five million
Speaker 2: pounds to bring Nigel Farage back from America where he
Speaker 2: was running around like picking up after Donald Trump because
Speaker 2: he was the Brexit guy I remember, although he's never
Speaker 2: actually been a member of parliament in Britain. They got
Speaker 2: him to come back. We talked about this on the
Speaker 2: show a while ago. Come back oust the leader of
Speaker 2: the Reform Party, which is the sort of ozim getting
Speaker 2: bored far right party.
Speaker 3: No I care about this because I've heard his name.
Speaker 2: A lot and stand so Holly is a massive fan
Speaker 2: of Nigel's and she raised all the money to get
Speaker 2: them to do it. So Reform UK are like a
Speaker 2: Brexit party, but now that they can't blame Europe for
Speaker 2: everything anymore, they're a bit unsure of who to blame.
Speaker 2: But it's definitely the immigrants, so that she'd right, they're
Speaker 2: hard right. She also held a big fancy fundraiser for
Speaker 2: Donald Trump in London last week and raised lots of
Speaker 2: money for him too, which is nice anyway. The point being,
Speaker 2: with Holly's help, Reform only won four seats, but the
Speaker 2: reason that you're seeing them everywhere is because Farage got
Speaker 2: voted into Parliament for the first time, which means that
Speaker 2: in there he can hassle and effect change. And because
Speaker 2: of the aforementioned voting system that I'm not going to
Speaker 2: go into. Are about four million people voted for them.
Speaker 2: That's a lot by people, right, So now that they're
Speaker 2: free to organize influence from the inside, the big fear is, well,
Speaker 2: it depends on way. It might not be a fear.
Speaker 2: It's not a fear for Holly.
Speaker 4: We're not going to have to do deals like Labor's
Speaker 4: not going to have to do deals with them if
Speaker 4: they've got a massive.
Speaker 2: Not what they're worried about. What people are worried about
Speaker 2: is that Farag's point and Reform UK's point is that
Speaker 2: they're going to infiltrate the Tories and take it over
Speaker 2: so they will become like.
Speaker 1: Donald Trump has with the Republic of Party.
Speaker 2: So basically Labor would have to do deals with anyone.
Speaker 2: As you say, they've got massive majority, but it validates them,
Speaker 2: It brings them into Parliament where they weren't before, and
Speaker 2: it means that they can start influencing the Tories because
Speaker 2: the Tories, who are all going we've all just lost
Speaker 2: our seats.
Speaker 1: I see, what are we going to do?
Speaker 2: Where's the future?
Speaker 1: It's over here, apparently it's over here on the hard right.
Speaker 2: And very like what happened at the Australian election when
Speaker 2: a lot of the more sort of centrist and liberal
Speaker 2: Liberals lost their seats to teals, that's kind of what's
Speaker 2: happened at the UK election, which brings me to the
Speaker 2: third point, which is remember when we used to only
Speaker 2: have like three TV channels or four TV channels and
Speaker 2: now we have a bitch of million. Yeah, that's what
Speaker 2: politics like. I reckon, there's going to be a time
Speaker 2: when we were going to go Can you remember how
Speaker 2: we just used to have to choose from these two
Speaker 2: big parties. Because what happened in Britain, even though it
Speaker 2: looks on the surface again like a landslide, the independence
Speaker 2: and the smaller parties cleaned up, so the Libdems who
Speaker 2: are like their third party, So think of like the Democrats.
Speaker 2: Right when the Democrats were a thing in Australia, they
Speaker 2: won seventy one seats as in seventy one more than
Speaker 2: they had in the last election. They cleaned up in
Speaker 2: the South of England, like all the Tory voters who
Speaker 2: couldn't bring themselves to vote conservative anymore. They're not the
Speaker 2: far right people who wanted to vote for Farach, so
Speaker 2: they got all of those people.
Speaker 3: So what you're.
Speaker 4: Saying is that the old two party system is sort
Speaker 4: of collapsing everywhere in the world. I mean, we're seeing
Speaker 4: over the weekend in France as well. People thought that
Speaker 4: it was going to go far right, but now there's
Speaker 4: been a coalition among the Greens and the left and
Speaker 4: it looks like maybe.
Speaker 1: They'll take power. People don't want that binary choice anymore.
Speaker 2: Just like we want more tvgions.
Speaker 1: What will personalization curate everything curation?
Speaker 3: I was reading that the same thing is a threat
Speaker 3: to Biden in the US in terms of the people
Speaker 3: who might vote for him are instead looking at other
Speaker 3: parties the more represent their interests.
Speaker 4: That's not the way the US election works so much
Speaker 4: in that third party candidates have always split the vote
Speaker 4: depending on where we get left right. I think the
Speaker 4: biggest problem in the US is what old Mates said
Speaker 4: in the beginning, which is just that disaffected politics is broken.
Speaker 4: If we've got two elderly men, one is a liar
Speaker 4: and one is not fit for office, anymore clearly, how
Speaker 4: is our system so broken?
Speaker 1: And why should I vote for either of them?
Speaker 3: So that speaks to two trends that I've kind of
Speaker 3: noticed a lot of analysis about lately. The first is
Speaker 3: Ezra Kline, who is one of my favorite political commentators,
Speaker 3: says that the big divide isn't between left and right,
Speaker 3: it's between people who are interested in politics and people
Speaker 3: who aren't. So what we heard in that clip is
Speaker 3: that there is this disaffected majority who won't vote, who
Speaker 3: don't feel represented by anyone, who were just tapping out.
Speaker 3: And then almost the laughter of the journalist represented the
Speaker 3: other class, which is this you know, often portrayed as
Speaker 3: almost an intellectual elite who were kind of fighting at
Speaker 3: the top, where it's like the average person doesn't give
Speaker 3: a shit about this because they don't have their capacity.
Speaker 3: Their lives are full and complicated and this is just
Speaker 3: not at the top of their priorities.
Speaker 2: Also explains why the average person who doesn't give a
Speaker 2: shit about politics, isn't watching insiders, isn't reading the political
Speaker 2: analysis and all that stuff on the ABC will generally
Speaker 2: tune into politics about two weeks before they have to vote,
Speaker 2: maybe a month generously, and then they're just looking around
Speaker 2: for like what's what right. And one of the things
Speaker 2: that was interesting after the UK election, which you know
Speaker 2: had been hailed as this big historic shift, is that
Speaker 2: the most memorable moments from the campaign were all gaffes,
Speaker 2: like memes, the moment of Rishi Sunak, you know, announcing
Speaker 2: the election in the rain that we talked about on
Speaker 2: the show. The Lib Dems, thellier decided to be like
Speaker 2: Boris Johnson and just do lots of crazy stunts. So
Speaker 2: it's like bungee jumping off shit and you know, sort
Speaker 2: of paddle boarding on the Thames and anything that gets
Speaker 2: the cameras gets the memification going. Because most people, as
Speaker 2: you say, Jesse, who are just kind of like whatever,
Speaker 2: These people are all idiots as far as I can see,
Speaker 2: are just tuning in at the last minute and looking
Speaker 2: for color and movement, and that is the game you
Speaker 2: got to play now that I think had also this
Speaker 2: real fragmentation which we're also seeing here in Australia of
Speaker 2: like the broad churches so called of the left and
Speaker 2: the right aren't broad enough now. We want them more fragmented,
Speaker 2: more small and more personalized.
Speaker 4: We saw that with Fatima Payman in Australia last week,
Speaker 4: where she was part of the Labor government. She didn't
Speaker 4: agree with their policy on Gaza and on Israel, so
Speaker 4: she left the party and is now an independent.
Speaker 1: So it's interesting because.
Speaker 4: Political parties used to always be, as you say, wholly
Speaker 4: a broad church, and there would be things that you
Speaker 4: would agree with in things that you wouldn't. For example,
Speaker 4: when Penny Wong was part of the ALP and the
Speaker 4: official was against marriage equality and at the time, and
Speaker 4: as a gay woman, that was obviously very difficult for
Speaker 4: her personally, but she understood that as part of the
Speaker 4: party you have to back the party's position. Now it's
Speaker 4: not like that in every political party. Some parties in
Speaker 4: Australia let you cross the floor. The Liberals are more
Speaker 4: relaxed about it. In the ALP they're not. And there's
Speaker 4: a lot of talk about whether with this more fragmented
Speaker 4: niche approach of both voters and MPs, is politics splintering and.
Speaker 3: A focus on true representation and diversity in politics actually
Speaker 3: having people who represent the electorate, whereas you know, not
Speaker 3: that long ago it was only white men, so it
Speaker 3: might have been easier to reach a consensus because they
Speaker 3: weren't even attempting to represent the entire election.
Speaker 2: This is why people get so disaffected though, Right, is
Speaker 2: that in order to reach a consensus, that's often why
Speaker 2: you're doing deals. Right, So you're saying, if you will
Speaker 2: back us on this, then I'll give you a little
Speaker 2: bit of that. And you know, we see that in
Speaker 2: American politics all the time when actually Congress kinds of
Speaker 2: gets locked and can't move anymore, gets paralyzed by its
Speaker 2: deal making and it's giving too much and taking too much.
Speaker 2: And the thing is is that it's very hard to
Speaker 2: reach consensus if you're not going to stand behind a
Speaker 2: party line and say I'm always going to be true
Speaker 2: to my values, which is absolutely admirable, and we all
Speaker 2: know we live in a more personal, brand, values driven world.
Speaker 2: How do you get big movements happening and get change
Speaker 2: across the line?
Speaker 3: I read this analysis that it's not the job of
Speaker 3: the politician to generate favorability anymore, but to cast the
Speaker 3: other in a negative light, which goes to Joe Biden
Speaker 3: and Trump. I wonder if that is Biden's only strategy.
Speaker 3: Give Donald Trump enough room and he'll kind of be
Speaker 3: responsible for enough gaffs that he won't even have to
Speaker 3: be favorably.
Speaker 4: It's actually the opposite. That's exactly what Donald Trump's doing.
Speaker 4: He's actually been very quiet since the debate, and now
Speaker 4: all everybody's talking about is not all the lies that
Speaker 4: Donald Trump told, the fact that he's a convicted fell
Speaker 4: and a lunatic. They're talking about Biden and this is
Speaker 4: the problem. And as we record this, he's still the
Speaker 4: candidate and refuses to step down. Now the rest of
Speaker 4: the campaign, all the oxygen is going to be about
Speaker 4: whether Biden's fit for office, which is hilarious given that
Speaker 4: he's running against the truck.
Speaker 3: He knows how to use a news cycle. And the
Speaker 3: prolonged result of this, I suppose digital media has been
Speaker 3: fifteen twenty years clickbait, headlines, anger, all of those things
Speaker 3: happens with an algorithm, means that this negative political environment.
Speaker 3: The result of that is that we've just lost faith
Speaker 3: in the political process and no one wants to vote.
Speaker 3: That's how we end up, which is quite sad. Our
Speaker 3: News podcast The Quickie is going to talk more about
Speaker 3: the French election on Wednesday, after the polls have closed
Speaker 3: and we have all the results. Claire Murphy will explain
Speaker 3: how all of this will tie into the Olympics, which
Speaker 3: is being held in Paris starts this month.
Speaker 2: This is madness.
Speaker 3: Hey, yeah, this is your mom and your boss.
Speaker 1: Who you hate.
Speaker 3: It's weird mom. Over the weekend, I found myself having
Speaker 3: several arguments about one man's face. You might have seen
Speaker 3: a new movie on Netflix called A Family Affair, starring
Speaker 3: Nicole Kidman, Joey King, and Zac Efron. And while women's
Speaker 3: faces are often the subject of much speculation and chatter,
Speaker 3: and I must say, in this film, Nicole Kidman's face
Speaker 3: has come up, but we're going to leave that to
Speaker 3: the side this time. It's thirty six year old Efron's
Speaker 3: appearance that has attracted a great deal of commentary. Here's
Speaker 3: what the Internet is saying. Netflix fans all have the
Speaker 3: same complaint about the new Nicole Kidman and Zac Efron movie.
Speaker 3: Fans alarmed by zac Efron's face, zac Efron fans confused
Speaker 3: by dramatic transformation, and so on. So if you haven't
Speaker 3: seen Efron lately, we've posted a picture on the mummea
Speaker 3: out loud in Instagram. But the shape of his jaw
Speaker 3: has changed considerably and his lips his.
Speaker 2: Whole face and his forehead and his eyes.
Speaker 1: He looks like David Hazelhoff.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 3: While fans were asking what Efron did to his beautiful face,
Speaker 3: a story resurfaced about an accident Efron had more than
Speaker 3: ten years ago. In twenty thirteen. Efron says he was
Speaker 3: running through his house in socks and he slipped, hitting
Speaker 3: his chin on a granite fountain.
Speaker 1: There's so much to unpack just about the statement.
Speaker 3: Why you've never tripped on her granite house?
Speaker 2: Celebrity house problem.
Speaker 3: He was rendered unconscious and when he woke up, his
Speaker 3: chin was, to quote Efron, hanging off his face. Following
Speaker 3: the incident, his massacres, which are the muscles located on
Speaker 3: each side of your jaw, just grew. He was meant
Speaker 3: to be having like Phisio to sort it out, but
Speaker 3: then he had to go and shoot something and it
Speaker 3: got interrupted and he said, they got really, really big.
Speaker 1: I don't think that's a thing.
Speaker 3: He told Men's Health magazines.
Speaker 1: Apparently I'm a doctor, and I think that's a lie.
Speaker 3: Injury was really serious, and he nearly died afterwards. He
Speaker 3: also had no idea that people were talking about his
Speaker 3: face until his mother alerted him to it.
Speaker 4: He had said, no idea, like a completely different person.
Speaker 3: If I valued what other people thought of me to
Speaker 3: the extent that they may think I do, I definitely
Speaker 3: wouldn't be able to do this.
Speaker 1: Why do people gasolate us like you do?
Speaker 4: You want to your face, but don't make up silly
Speaker 4: stories or tell us it's not what we sell I do.
Speaker 3: So he has had an accident, you can see he
Speaker 3: was in I've got a.
Speaker 4: Little scar under my chin and from what I had
Speaker 4: fell off my trike when I was five.
Speaker 3: So I have friends who you know, have been in
Speaker 3: an accident or have a scar, or have had health
Speaker 3: issues that mean that they look different.
Speaker 1: Completely reconstructed facial surgery.
Speaker 3: I know one person who did, and I remember she'd
Speaker 3: been in a car accident and she'd had quite serious,
Speaker 3: like reconstructive surgery, And the comments were one of the
Speaker 3: hardest things, because you actually do need plastic surgery because
Speaker 3: of what happened. It just felt like everyone had the
Speaker 3: right to comment on how her face had And this
Speaker 3: is exactly the same rhetoric we've seen around Efron is
Speaker 3: like you've messed up your face, as though you own it.
Speaker 3: Like I understand that he's a movie star and that
Speaker 3: we watch him for two hours, so you're gonna have
Speaker 3: some thoughts. But if we take his word for it
Speaker 3: for a moment and go, you had an injury where
Speaker 3: you nearly died ten years ago. The story is that
Speaker 3: he wasn't seen in public for a really long time
Speaker 3: because he was really upset.
Speaker 2: Like I always see him. No, there wasn't in Australia
Speaker 2: for a hundred years and I saw him every day
Speaker 2: with his nice girl friend from Byron.
Speaker 4: Different and that was only a few years ago, and
Speaker 4: he looks different again since then.
Speaker 3: Well, the story though with physio, if he didn't do
Speaker 3: that properly, and if he's saying that the muscles grow
Speaker 3: and grew, then the idea would be that he's.
Speaker 4: Muscles don't just grow and grow like they don't just go, hey,
Speaker 4: you know what, my biceps and my triceps and my pecs.
Speaker 4: Because have you seen Zacha Fron lately? He used to
Speaker 4: be like a not like a rodent boyfriend, but like
Speaker 4: a you know, a light guy in high school, musical
Speaker 4: sweet looking guy, but not like muscly leading man, alpha,
Speaker 4: Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt, George Clooney kind of not that
Speaker 4: vibe and now he is that vibe.
Speaker 3: And he appeared in The Iron Claw, so that was
Speaker 3: another thing. It's not marveled on a lot of he
Speaker 3: looks like he's wearing a Marvel movie. He's like, now, Chris,
Speaker 3: hem'sworth that kind of body. So that can also change
Speaker 3: the way that your face appears, right, Like your muscle mass,
Speaker 3: your weight, all of that can change how your face appears.
Speaker 3: But what I want to know is do we all
Speaker 3: need to leave the man alone. He's got his story,
Speaker 3: He's told us his story. What doesn't matter what we
Speaker 3: think about his story.
Speaker 2: Here's the tricky bit, right because I am a bleeding heart.
Speaker 2: I'm like pau Zac. Whether it's true or not about
Speaker 2: the jaw, I don't really care. There is no question
Speaker 2: that his face has changed. And the thing is is
Speaker 2: Mia said last week, because we're talking about watching this
Speaker 2: film and I was like, can't wait to watch it,
Speaker 2: and she said, he looks like he's been created by
Speaker 2: AI and is exactly what he looks like. It's entirely
Speaker 2: up to him what he wants to do to his face,
Speaker 2: and it's entirely up to him what story he wants
Speaker 2: to tell us about it. The reason everyone's talking about
Speaker 2: it is because it's very distracting, and it's not good
Speaker 2: for movies, for acting, for careers to not be able
Speaker 2: to see a human when you're looking at the screen.
Speaker 2: I think it's really.
Speaker 4: Difficult because of course men are also subject to beauty standards,
Speaker 4: and anyone in Hollywood, my heart goes out to them
Speaker 4: in terms of how hard it must be to be
Speaker 4: scrutinized in that way and have your face and body
Speaker 4: talked about.
Speaker 1: That's a shame. That's difficult.
Speaker 4: There's other difficult things that other people have to deal
Speaker 4: with in other professions. But what I think this is
Speaker 4: and what I push back on, is when we are
Speaker 4: being gas lit and told there's nothing to see here.
Speaker 4: It's a little bit like Joe Biden's saying, God, she
Speaker 4: is so up, a little bit like Joe Biden's saying
Speaker 4: I've just had a bad night.
Speaker 1: I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. It's actually it's not fine.
Speaker 3: Zac Efron isn't saying there's nothing to see here. He's
Speaker 3: saying there is something to see here.
Speaker 4: This comes back to we're not comfortable with people being
Speaker 4: honest and saying I had all this surgery because I
Speaker 4: didn't like the way I looked, or I wanted to
Speaker 4: get different roles, or I was trying to look more.
Speaker 3: Like especially from a man, Christ's no way I'm mad
Speaker 3: for anyone.
Speaker 4: Like women can't say it either, Like every Kardashian has
Speaker 4: had to go I did nothing to my face, and
Speaker 4: other actresses have said I just used sunscreen, and j
Speaker 4: Lo says, I just use olive oil, and it's like,
Speaker 4: come on, and the reason that we push back and
Speaker 4: I think that we get angry, and it's a shame
Speaker 4: that that anger is at that individual. It's more stop
Speaker 4: treating us like we're idiots, because it's not just his
Speaker 4: jawline that's different. It's his lips, it's his eyes, it's
Speaker 4: his forehead, it's his hairline, it's his body, it's everything,
Speaker 4: like it didn't all crash into the fountain.
Speaker 3: I think we can criticize a performance and ultimately, you
Speaker 3: know where the consumers and the reviewers and we can
Speaker 3: say whether we liked that film or whether we thought
Speaker 3: the performance was believable. But trolling people and saying what's.
Speaker 1: The difference between troll and saying.
Speaker 3: Abstrawed Parkward and saying like that's cruel.
Speaker 1: I agree with that's incredibly cruel. That's incredibly cruel.
Speaker 4: I agree, But how much of this is a recalibration
Speaker 4: where it's a bit the m prisoner closed where we're going, Hey,
Speaker 4: we can see this.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's me.
Speaker 3: Doing that lately. We've been doing this. We did it
Speaker 3: to Amy Schumer. I say that we as in like
Speaker 3: the culture, because this is what all the websites do.
Speaker 3: Fans say Amy Schumer looks different, and then they just
Speaker 3: post a whole lot of horrible stuff. And she came
Speaker 3: out and said, actually, I have a health issue which
Speaker 3: has changed the shape of my face. We did it
Speaker 3: to Christina Applegate who came out and said, actually, I
Speaker 3: have MS and it has changed the shape of my
Speaker 3: face and I have put on weight and things have changed.
Speaker 3: Like how many times does that need to happen? Do
Speaker 3: we need a medical certificate?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: Or can they just put up a flag and go, hey,
Speaker 3: stop commenting on my appearance. I've got a story.
Speaker 4: We will always comment on the appearance of people who
Speaker 4: were paid for what they look like. I mean, and
Speaker 4: I think we also call bullshit on this idea that
Speaker 4: remember when Jennifer Aniston or I can't remember what celebrity was.
Speaker 4: I think it was her, But a lot of celebrities
Speaker 4: who've clearly got different noses say I had to have
Speaker 4: it corrected for a deviated septum. I know people who
Speaker 4: had deviated septums, yes, Or Tory Spelling who said that
Speaker 4: she had a different nose because she got attacked on
Speaker 4: the nose by her pet parrot.
Speaker 1: Like, guys, come on.
Speaker 3: What do we do once they tell us that? Because
Speaker 3: when I was in primary school, there was a kid,
Speaker 3: a young boy who had really bushy eyebrows, right, and
Speaker 3: he came to school one day and he pretty much
Speaker 3: shaped them off. Everyone gave him a really hard time, right,
Speaker 3: and he said, I stepped on my razor in the
Speaker 3: shower and it flipped up. So every kid has a
Speaker 3: choice in that moment to look at that kid and go,
Speaker 3: do I keep pushing you and making fun of you,
Speaker 3: or do I just move on? Because clearly there's some pain.
Speaker 3: We move already there and then we move on. And
Speaker 3: that's my point.
Speaker 2: But my concern is, because I agree we move on.
Speaker 2: If jack Efron jack Efron Zach Cafron wants to tell
Speaker 2: us about his jaw and his fountain. That's fine with me.
Speaker 2: My concern is more, we're going to get so used
Speaker 2: to seeing people only people who look like they have
Speaker 2: been generated by a mixture of digital retouching surgery AI.
Speaker 2: I mean, my daughters showed me AI imagery of celebrities
Speaker 2: all the time that isn't real, like some celebrity doing
Speaker 2: some TikTok dance and all those things, and you're looking
Speaker 2: and looking for the clues. Right, We're going to get
Speaker 2: so used to it that it entirely desensitizes us to
Speaker 2: what real faces look like and what real emotions look like.
Speaker 2: And I know that's like a spectrum of an argument
Speaker 2: that's been going on since the first needle went into
Speaker 2: somebody's face. But I'm more concerned about that. I'm all
Speaker 2: for zac Efron having his privacy, having his own reasons
Speaker 2: why he wants to look the way he looks and
Speaker 2: what he wants to tell us about it. But watching
Speaker 2: that film and thinking that we were supposed.
Speaker 4: To be pretending that he didn't it was so I
Speaker 4: think you named the word whole, which is distracting. It's
Speaker 4: really really distracting. And I find this all the time
Speaker 4: when I'm watching, particularly women of a certain age and
Speaker 4: the technology.
Speaker 1: That's used, plus the surgery that they've had.
Speaker 4: I find it really really distracting, and I can't watch
Speaker 4: these films because it looks like they're not human.
Speaker 2: If the movie's got enough, you sort of shel it
Speaker 2: and you get past it. So the first ten minutes
Speaker 2: of this movie, I was like, whoa, we're in a
Speaker 2: new world here. And then I sort of went, Okay,
Speaker 2: shut up, Polly, Like you're telling yourself to shut up
Speaker 2: and start investing in the show. If we're not even
Speaker 2: allowed to call it out a little bit, it just
Speaker 2: feels that we're as fake as that image on the screen.
Speaker 3: Out Louders jump into the Mumma out Louders Facebook group
Speaker 3: and tell us what you think. Have you watched the movie?
Speaker 3: Did you notice and do you reckon that we just
Speaker 3: accept the story and move on. Yes, yes we do.
Speaker 2: Out Louders.
Speaker 4: If you want to listen to us every day of
Speaker 4: the week, you can get access to exclusive segments on
Speaker 4: Tuesdays and Thursdays by becoming a mum mea subscriber. Follow
Speaker 4: the link in the show notes to subscribe and support us.
Speaker 4: And a big thank you to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 7: A woman that has value is not going to put
Speaker 7: herself on the Internet for any man to just be
Speaker 7: able to comment and say, oh, you're beautiful or this
Speaker 7: year that them compliments don't flatter her, they don't make her.
Speaker 7: Because she values herself hired than what men think of her.
Speaker 7: She rates herself high value.
Speaker 5: Woman does this, she prioritizes this compatibility over a chemistry.
Speaker 5: I'm not a woman, but if I was a woman,
Speaker 5: I'm not paying out a restaurant. I'm not choosing word
Speaker 5: to go eat.
Speaker 6: I'm not making the plans for the evening. If I
Speaker 6: was a woman, I would.
Speaker 3: The man the man that I be treated like a queen.
Speaker 4: Earlier this year, a global study found that one generation
Speaker 4: of men more than any other, thinks that feminism has
Speaker 4: gone too far. If I asked you to guess, you
Speaker 4: might think it was boomer men who might be nostalgic
Speaker 4: for the days when you could pinch your waitress on
Speaker 4: the bum and ask your female co worker to make
Speaker 4: you a cup of tea oe for good days. But
Speaker 4: it's actually not boomer men. It's jen Z men who
Speaker 4: are pushing back the hardest. Sixty percent of young men
Speaker 4: believe that the push for women's equality discriminated against men
Speaker 4: and that life will be harder for men than women
Speaker 4: twenty years from now. And it's interesting because these are
Speaker 4: the guys that are growing up with me Too and
Speaker 4: Australia's first female Prime minister and the coverage of domestic
Speaker 4: violence protests. But they are the same guys that are
Speaker 4: being attracted to misogynists like Andrew Tate, who are getting
Speaker 4: this global following among young men and boys. And to
Speaker 4: counter this interesting a few weeks ago there was a
Speaker 4: government campaign that showed a young teenage boy on his
Speaker 4: phone and all the hidden forms of disrespect that he's
Speaker 4: exposed to on his phone, and it sort of shows
Speaker 4: all the various forms of misogynistic content that young people
Speaker 4: see and hear and how it can escalate to violence
Speaker 4: and negative attitudes about women.
Speaker 3: Life is a horror for a status what you be.
Speaker 5: Called to control them?
Speaker 2: Control?
Speaker 6: As a man?
Speaker 5: You're a vader?
Speaker 4: Who are you texting?
Speaker 3: I know you like me on scene.
Speaker 1: A man with James James?
Speaker 2: All right, yeah, smarting M So you're definitely right.
Speaker 7: Well, do you know what's influencing your kids? Learn the
Speaker 7: hidden trends of disrespect before they lead to violence.
Speaker 4: Something that we wanted to drill into today is a
Speaker 4: concept in a lot of these Andrew Tait style videos,
Speaker 4: because it's not just him who's out there sprouting this stuff.
Speaker 4: It's lots of other influencers who are reaching young men
Speaker 4: and boys, and it's the concept of the high value woman.
Speaker 4: There was an article written for the site The Adult
Speaker 4: Man by a man called Joshua Sigaphus that was called
Speaker 4: the fifteen traits of a high Value Woman and why
Speaker 4: you shouldn't settle. So today we were just going to
Speaker 4: go through some of those traits because it's not as
Speaker 4: simple as just sort of if a woman is a
Speaker 4: slush and has ever had sex, then she's a lot
Speaker 4: value woman. It's not just that it sort of starts
Speaker 4: in this way. If you've ever been on a date
Speaker 4: or shared a bedroom with a contentious, argumentative, lazy, or
Speaker 4: hateful woman, then you probably know exactly what I'm talking
Speaker 4: about when I describe a high and a low value woman,
Speaker 4: says this writer. Now, I'm just going to read you
Speaker 4: a couple and I'm going to ask you guys to
Speaker 4: read a couple more whole. One of them is she
Speaker 4: cares about her appearance. What are the points under that?
Speaker 2: So they say youth, beauty, and fertility are primary attractive
Speaker 2: metrics for women. So depressing. I'm so depressed already. High
Speaker 2: value women care about their appearents, take pride in being beautiful,
Speaker 2: and put effort into their fertility cues.
Speaker 3: What does that mean.
Speaker 2: I think it means showing you that she is young
Speaker 2: and plump of ovary for you as a man looking
Speaker 2: for a high value woman. This really comes down to
Speaker 2: one simple principle. Only entertain women who care about their
Speaker 2: appearance and put work into making themselves as beautiful as possible.
Speaker 2: When I think about this, I think about you know,
Speaker 2: when you look at all the women in the public
Speaker 2: eye and all kinds of different ways, right, and I'm
Speaker 2: thinking about politics since we're just talking about that. All
Speaker 2: the women who live in like Trump world have to
Speaker 2: look a certain way. They have to be very groomed,
Speaker 2: they have to be very like It's like Kelly from
Speaker 2: the DCC's School of Womandom. Always have your makeupon, always
Speaker 2: be groomed, Always be wearing type fitting closet, Show your
Speaker 2: lovely figure that you work hard to maintain. Always be
Speaker 2: pleasing to the eye of a male. Do not be
Speaker 2: turning up to practice in your sweatpants with no makeupon
Speaker 2: and you haven't brushed your hair? What are use lovenly? Yeah.
Speaker 3: Number three is that she's agreeable. So high value women
Speaker 3: understand that being an agreeable, pleasant partner makes them more
Speaker 3: attractive and valuable. They understand that if they want to
Speaker 3: walk with a high value man, they need to relinquish
Speaker 3: control of the frame of the relationship and trust him
Speaker 3: to be the leader. So basically, agreeable is code for submissive.
Speaker 3: The first one here is actually she embraces femininity, which
Speaker 3: is one of the ones I find most interesting because
Speaker 3: I am seeing that a lot on social where people
Speaker 3: say embrace or lean into your femininity. A lot of
Speaker 3: women that I know who have been dating for ages
Speaker 3: and haven't found a person get bunneled into this world
Speaker 3: of you've lost your femininity, you've leaned too far into
Speaker 3: your masculine, and you need to lean back into your
Speaker 3: feminine and all those you're wearing. Yes, I keep trying
Speaker 3: to work out exactly what it means, and I went
Speaker 3: on a deep dive, and it means like you listen
Speaker 3: to your intuition rather than using logic. So I guess
Speaker 3: you don't use your brain, is what I'm reading there,
Speaker 3: Things like.
Speaker 1: That you should lean into your intuition and not logic.
Speaker 3: Yeah, empathy and generosity and kindness and basically were very passive,
Speaker 3: very very passive. Yeah, like you might go and be
Speaker 3: a leader in your workplace, but you have to leave
Speaker 3: that at work because a man is not going to
Speaker 3: want that because it's not leaning into your feminine.
Speaker 4: What's fascinating about this whole idea of the high value
Speaker 4: women is a lot of the people who are espousing
Speaker 4: this are also women, right, And this is where it's
Speaker 4: so clever because it co opts women into the patriarchy
Speaker 4: because who doesn't want to be a high value woman?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 4: Like I want to be a high value woman because
Speaker 4: that sounds great. I'm not a low value woman. I'm
Speaker 4: a high value woman. So when I look at what
Speaker 4: it takes to be a high value woman, all of
Speaker 4: those things are about submission and about reinforcing patriarchal standard.
Speaker 4: So another one is she cares about her reputation? Does
Speaker 4: she post nude or semi nude photos on Instagram? Or
Speaker 4: is she the type of woman who takes her reputation
Speaker 4: more seriously than that, as if equating how you present
Speaker 4: yourself to the world cheapens your value.
Speaker 1: Now, that is a tale as old as time.
Speaker 3: So they've got she's always improving herself. She's a peacemaker,
Speaker 3: she's not a victim. She saves her sexual power for
Speaker 3: one man. I'm gonna push back, right, obviously there is
Speaker 3: something incredibly sexist about this. But while I was away,
Speaker 3: I listened to an episode of Mummy out Loud where
Speaker 3: you talked about six or five blue eyes. Yeah, guy
Speaker 3: who works in finance, tell me what the difference is.
Speaker 1: There isn't one at all.
Speaker 3: And that's the thing. There are certain circles of women
Speaker 3: who would write a list of a high value man
Speaker 3: and it would be just as reductive and just as
Speaker 3: harmful and draw a box around Masculinity's just as suffocating.
Speaker 2: Entirely true, but the parameters would be different. Because the
Speaker 2: whole point about six ' five Finance Trust Fund is
Speaker 2: buying into these ancient ideas that men it's about ambition
Speaker 2: and money and status, and women it's about beauty, fertility,
Speaker 2: submissive like. So the reason I pushed back on this
Speaker 2: whole like, who's making the decisions.
Speaker 3: About what the value is right, because the whole.
Speaker 2: Point of this is you only get to choose if
Speaker 2: you're in the position of power. And what we're being
Speaker 2: told over and over again about young men in particular,
Speaker 2: is that they're no longer in the position of power.
Speaker 2: Women are graduating high school with better marks, taking up
Speaker 2: more places at university, beginning to close the gap, taking
Speaker 2: jobs from them, blah blah blah. So in theory, they're
Speaker 2: now moving up into the power seat and they get
Speaker 2: to choose. And I've listened to a million podcasts and
Speaker 2: read things from guys telling guys how to also be
Speaker 2: high status so that women want them rather than the
Speaker 2: sort of schlubby loser.
Speaker 1: But isn't that just purely about being rich.
Speaker 2: It's still all about your values, Because if I was
Speaker 2: riding my list, it wouldn't be about how much money
Speaker 2: he earn, how tall he was, what color his eyes were.
Speaker 2: It wouldn't be this. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: This is a very particular.
Speaker 4: Kind of value system, But what it is is gender roles.
Speaker 4: So saying gender quality is pushing both men and women
Speaker 4: to feel nostalgic for gender roles.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't think women would.
Speaker 1: Be looked after like traadois I reckon. I've change in finance.
Speaker 3: I've changed my mind about this because we're talking about
Speaker 3: it recently with the Julia Gillard thing, and I agree
Speaker 3: feminism probably needs to do a better job of bringing
Speaker 3: young men along with us. That's start evidently, but you'll
Speaker 3: put that on a when there's a lack of social cohesion,
Speaker 3: which we just saw in the previous segment.
Speaker 2: Social cohesion is gone.
Speaker 3: Social cohesion is gone.
Speaker 2: I think that's algorithm's rule.
Speaker 3: Things now, we don't know. When we look at the
Speaker 3: future five, ten, fifteen years ahead, things are very uncertain
Speaker 3: and the ground is shifting beneath our feet. And I
Speaker 3: think at moments at crossroads, we need to grip onto
Speaker 3: something that we understand, and that is very simple. And
Speaker 3: I wonder if that's to do with what we're seeing
Speaker 3: with a bit of a regression when it comes to
Speaker 3: traditional gender roles that they make us feel say safe,
Speaker 3: that it's like, at least I can hold onto this
Speaker 3: and I can mimic this, because there was a clear
Speaker 3: distinction between the two, whereas everything else feels like chaos.
Speaker 2: But they didn't make women safe. They never did. That's
Speaker 2: the big lie here, which is the same conversation that
Speaker 2: we had really about that and about the opposite is
Speaker 2: the women when they don't have power and they don't
Speaker 2: have financial autonomy and they're being treated as a possession,
Speaker 2: they're not safe, They're never safe, so they're being sold
Speaker 2: a lie. I think really it's about pushing back on
Speaker 2: both of these ideas that you know, there's a battle
Speaker 2: for dominance here between the men and women, and maybe
Speaker 2: the women are choosing, and what are they going to
Speaker 2: want if they're the ones who get to make the choices,
Speaker 2: and if the men are choosing, what are they going
Speaker 2: to want? I know it sounds so polyanna, but it's
Speaker 2: about back to the idea that we're all becoming less
Speaker 2: human because we are living our lives on our phones
Speaker 2: and we're watching people on our screens who don't even
Speaker 2: look like humans anymore. Is don't we all just want
Speaker 2: a good human? Don't we all just want our partners
Speaker 2: to be good human?
Speaker 4: I think that the bigger, more chilling aspect of all
Speaker 4: of this is joining the dots between abortion rights being
Speaker 4: round back in America. You can't have a quality for
Speaker 4: women when women don't have bodily autonomy, and when women
Speaker 4: don't have any control over how many children they have
Speaker 4: or when they have them. So there's this idea on
Speaker 4: the far right and on the right and conservative, and
Speaker 4: some of it's religious and some of it's more idealistic
Speaker 4: based that yes, things have gone too far and that
Speaker 4: women need to get back in their place. And some
Speaker 4: of the most chilling points here and not the expected ones,
Speaker 4: about she has to look good and save her sexual
Speaker 4: powerful one man, but things like she's a peacemaker. Now,
Speaker 4: this goes on to say, is she the type of
Speaker 4: woman who starts fights, arguments and drama or is she
Speaker 4: the type of woman who builds, bridges men's relationships and
Speaker 4: brings people together. There are plenty of dramatic women in
Speaker 4: the world, but a truly high value woman will strive
Speaker 4: to be a peacemaker, even when doing so isn't the
Speaker 4: easiest thing. This is a trait to treasure highly in
Speaker 4: a woman, and truth be told, there aren't very many
Speaker 4: women nowadays who cultivate this skill. This is about sublimating
Speaker 4: your opinions. It's about being a doormat.
Speaker 2: Essentially, Although I would also like a man to be
Speaker 2: a peacemaker, please, like I think that people who don't
Speaker 2: deliberately go around antagonizing people to start fights and dramas.
Speaker 2: Is something that's very appealing, and I on that.
Speaker 3: I'm thinking back to when I was dating, say mid twenties,
Speaker 3: and I would go on dates with men, and I
Speaker 3: had internalized the idea, which I think was probably true.
Speaker 3: I think I was responding to the evidence around me
Speaker 3: that sitting there at dinner and talking about abortion rights
Speaker 3: or about feminism wasn't very sexy, probably wasn't going to
Speaker 3: get me a second date.
Speaker 4: Remember there was that whole movement about you have to
Speaker 4: be a low maintenance woman.
Speaker 1: It's like, I'm a cool girl. I'm low maintenance.
Speaker 3: I'm so like, I don't get fiery about things.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no difficult, I don't have opinions, I don't have demands.
Speaker 4: Because the next one is, she's not a victim. To
Speaker 4: put it simply, a high value woman will always take
Speaker 4: responsibility for herself.
Speaker 1: Listen to this.
Speaker 4: She'll never seek victimhood to gain the upper hand or
Speaker 4: to make her life easier.
Speaker 2: That's very convenient. That is all we've got time for
Speaker 2: on our Monday. Mama, Mira, out loud, out louders, thank
Speaker 2: you for being here with us. Thank you for joining us,
Speaker 2: and thank you to our team for putting today's show together.
Speaker 2: We'll be back in yours tomorrow and before.
Speaker 3: We go if you would like some more of us.
Speaker 3: Last week, I had a therapy dilemma that I needed
Speaker 3: to talk through with Mayor and Holly, so I did
Speaker 3: so in a subscriber episode. Here is a little taste.
Speaker 3: I wish it was more of my voice, but I
Speaker 3: hear my psychologist in my head a lot before I
Speaker 3: make certain decisions about this inner child work, which sounds
Speaker 3: really woo woo, but basically, like, listen to the deepest
Speaker 3: part of you that's saying no, I don't want to
Speaker 3: do that. No, I'm tired, No I'm sick, No I
Speaker 3: want to hang out with my daughter. The more you
Speaker 3: reject that, like, it's quite fracturing. A link to that
Speaker 3: episode will be in the show notes. Bye bye.
Speaker 2: Shout out to any Mamma Mia subscribers listening. If you
Speaker 2: love the show and you want to support us, subscribing
Speaker 2: to MoMA Mia is the very best way to do it.
Speaker 2: There's a link in the episode of description