1 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. 2 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 2: Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and 3 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 2: waters that this podcast is recorded on. 4 00:00:20,759 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 3: I think skinny talk sucks, and I think it's really 5 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 3: really disheartening and really discouraging to see all of these 6 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 3: awful rhetorics that people have spent so long dispelling suddenly 7 00:00:30,479 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 3: coming back and now being the norm. Skinny does now 8 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 3: automatically equal healthy, and there are a thousand things that 9 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 3: definitely taste better than skinny feels. 10 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: For Mamma Mia. I'm your host, Ashanye Dante. Welcome to 11 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: But are you happy? Because overthinking isn't a personality trait, 12 00:00:49,160 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: but it feels like one. 13 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 2: And I'm doctor Atastagia Hernis a clinical psychologist passionate about 14 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 2: happiness and mental health. Have you noticed it too, with 15 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 2: the rise of weight loss injections and the return of 16 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 2: skinny culture. It feels like we're moving backwards in the 17 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 2: body positivity movement. 18 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,119 Speaker 1: It really does, and it feels like we pit rewind 19 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: on so much of the pro aggress we've made collectively 20 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: as a society. 21 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 2: That's exactly what we're diving into today. Will unpack what 22 00:01:16,679 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 2: these weight loss injections actually are how we can start 23 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:24,039 Speaker 2: to reframe the idea of the ideal body and the 24 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 2: signs that this shift might be taking a toll on 25 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 2: your mental and physical help. 26 00:01:29,119 --> 00:01:31,759 Speaker 1: This is such an important discussion to have. Let's get 27 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: into it. Okay, Anastasia, what actually is ozeenpic? I know 28 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: of so many of us here. It thrown around in 29 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: pop culture. 30 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 2: So a zeenpic and these weight loss injections that we've 31 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 2: been hearing about, they belong to a class of drugs 32 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 2: called GLP one, so glucogen lack peptite one receptor agonists 33 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 2: A big long title, but essentially azembic and these injections 34 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 2: were originally developed and are designed to help adults who 35 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,919 Speaker 2: had type two diabetes actually manage their blood sugar levels. 36 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 2: So a zembic works by making the action of a 37 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 2: natural hormone that we have called GLP one, and it's 38 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 2: released in the body after we eat, so it prompts 39 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 2: the pancreas to produce and release more insulin when blood 40 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 2: sugar levels are really high, which helps lower blood glucose levels. 41 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 2: So a zembig actually delays how quickly food leaves the stomach, 42 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 2: and it makes you feel fuller for longer, reducing your appetite. 43 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: Kind of coming back to the audio at the beginning 44 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: of this podcast, this idea of skinny talk. There's been 45 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: this re emergence of skinny culture and weight loss injections 46 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: feel like another chapter in this ongoing narrative of the 47 00:02:50,920 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: ideal body. But what even is the ideal body? And 48 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: who who decides? 49 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 2: You tell me a shiney, what's the ideal body? I 50 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 2: don't know, Like the ideal body has changed through the ages, 51 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 2: right through times. It was what like in the Victorian era, 52 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 2: it was that very like plump, full figured kind of body, 53 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 2: the hourglass figure that was very voluptuous, that was very 54 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 2: appealing to people. And then we moved through time. We 55 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 2: went to the nineteen twenties, that kind of Flappers era 56 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 2: where it was, you know, we wanted to look androgynous 57 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 2: and have that boyish kind of lean figure. And then 58 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,519 Speaker 2: we moved through that supermodel era that was very athletic 59 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 2: and tones, and then we got to you know, the 60 00:03:34,640 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 2: kind of Kardashian era where you have very small waists 61 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 2: and the big buttocks and you know, those big curves. 62 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 2: So the ideal body is constantly changing. I don't know 63 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 2: what it is or who decides it, but society and 64 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 2: culture kind of goes through these waves, which is why 65 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 2: it's really hard for us to look to any sort 66 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 2: of ideal body because by the time we even potentially 67 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 2: achieve it, it's changed to the next thing. 68 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: That's so true, and I feel like, especially after working 69 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: with a lot of teenage girls in workshops, there's one 70 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: thing we always do where we have a discussion around 71 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: what even like, what does even mean to be a 72 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: woman in today's world, And most of the time the 73 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: first answer that comes out of a girl's mouth is 74 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: to do with body appearance. And I know it used 75 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: to be called slim thick, but I actually now it's 76 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,679 Speaker 1: you know, the skinny top culture. Like it does keep changing, 77 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:27,720 Speaker 1: and it's disheartening, right. 78 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 2: And it's sad that that's one of the first things 79 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 2: that young girls and young women think of when they 80 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 2: think about being a woman in the world, that it 81 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 2: somehow has something to do with the way they look 82 00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 2: and the way their body is. 83 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: I know, for me, coming from a Tri Luncan background, 84 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: there's a lot of my younger cousins that live in 85 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: Tri Lunka and they're quite skinny and their ideal body 86 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 1: is they want to get fat, so they want to 87 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: get fatter, Whereas you know, we look at the Australian culture, 88 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: people don't want to be fat. So it is this 89 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: kind of constant, not only this societal piece, but it 90 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 1: is this cultural piece as well. Absolutely, in my experience, 91 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: many people don't even realize they're struggling with an eating disorder. 92 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: So how do you actually know if you have an 93 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: eating disorder? What are some of the signs that we 94 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 1: should be looking at for? 95 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 2: So this is a big piece for us to cover. 96 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 2: It's a really important one and I want to just 97 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 2: put out there that it's one that we'll talk about sensitively, 98 00:05:18,280 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 2: but please for any listeners take it with a grain 99 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 2: of salt. Right, The eating disorders can present in so 100 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 2: many different ways for different people, so there isn't a 101 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 2: one size fits all when it comes to this. But 102 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 2: the stats tell us that it's over a million Aussies 103 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 2: that are currently experiencing eating disorders and less than one 104 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 2: third are actually getting treatment or support. Right, so there's 105 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 2: very high stats of how many women and men. Right 106 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 2: doesn't discriminates women and men that have eating disorders, but 107 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 2: very few are actually getting the care and support they need. 108 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: So you're going to talk us through the most common 109 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: eating disorders, starting with anorexia. What exactly are the symptoms 110 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: of anorexia. 111 00:05:57,720 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 2: We refer to it as anorexia, the full name is 112 00:05:59,840 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 2: anorexia nevosa, and this is an eating disorder that's very 113 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 2: much characterized by restriction. So there's a significant restriction of 114 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 2: energy intake, which is essentially how much food and energy 115 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 2: we're putting into our body, and it leads to a 116 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 2: person being significantly underweight to what we would expect for 117 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 2: their age, for their height, for their race, etc. So 118 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 2: this is an eating disorder that's characterized by restriction, where 119 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 2: someone ends up being very underweight and can develop a 120 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 2: range of mental health and physical health problems as a 121 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 2: result of that. So not only do we find that 122 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 2: people with anorexia will have significantly low body weight, but 123 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 2: they'll also often have this fear of gaining weight. So 124 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 2: the drive to lose weight is perpetuated by a fear 125 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 2: of gaining weight. And some of the common sort of 126 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 2: signs or symptoms that we might see could be when 127 00:06:57,280 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 2: someone's significantly underweight, for a female, they stop getting their period, 128 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 2: they might develop sort of very fine hair all over 129 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 2: their body. They might get headaches. They might experience heart 130 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 2: problems because their heart is working extra hard to sort 131 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 2: of fuel them through the day. They might be very 132 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 2: preoccupied with calories with the food that they eat. They 133 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 2: might wear sort of baggy clothing to sort of hide 134 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 2: some of their weight loss from people. There's a whole 135 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 2: a range of ways in which it can actually present. 136 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: And what about bolimia, what exactly is it? 137 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 2: Bolimia is another very common eating disorder, and it's characterized 138 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 2: by two key features. So these are binges and purges. 139 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 2: So I'll explain what these are. A binge is not 140 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 2: just overeating, right, not overeating in the sense when we 141 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 2: go out for dinner and we eat a little bit 142 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 2: too much pizza, right, That's not what a binge is. 143 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 2: A binge is when someone eats an excessive amount of food, 144 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 2: usually kind of within a two hour window. They're usually 145 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 2: sort of carb heavy or like saturated, fatty, sugary kind 146 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 2: of foods, and a person feels like this behavior is 147 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 2: out of their control. They feel like they're eating even 148 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 2: though they're full, even though they might feel discomfort in 149 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 2: their stomach or internally, but they're eating in a way 150 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 2: that feels out of their control. This is what we 151 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 2: refer to as sort of a binge. So people with 152 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 2: bolimia will experience these binges and then they will also purge. 153 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 2: So this is a compensatory behavior. People are compensating for 154 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 2: the binge that they've had. So this might look like 155 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 2: using laxatives, diuretics, vomiting, or excessive exercise. So there's some 156 00:08:42,079 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 2: sort of compensatory behavior to compensate for the binge that 157 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 2: someone has had, and unfortunately, people can end up in 158 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 2: this binge purge cycle. That's what we are talking about ultimately, 159 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 2: when we're talking about bolimia. 160 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: Is boliema different than binge eating disorder? 161 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 2: Yes, So binge eating disorder is a different diagnosis to 162 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 2: bolimia nevosa. Binge eating disorder is where someone experiences those 163 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 2: same binges as in bolimia, but they don't have the purges. 164 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 2: They don't have necessarily the vomiting or the use of 165 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 2: laxatives or excessive exercise to compensate for that. So binge 166 00:09:18,560 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 2: eating disorder is characterized by the binges, but we don't 167 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 2: see the purges. Now, look, I define these different eating 168 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 2: disorders in these ways, but realistically, there are many people 169 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 2: who don't fit into these very neat categories of binges 170 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 2: and purges and restrictions, right, And so that's why actually 171 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 2: in the diagnostic manual we have what we refer to 172 00:09:39,680 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 2: as this category of unspecified eating disorders. And this isn't 173 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 2: to say that they're not specific. It's just that people 174 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 2: don't always fit into neat categories, but yet they can 175 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 2: still be experiencing difficulties. So one example of this is 176 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 2: actually something we refer to as atypical anorexia. So usually 177 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 2: with anorexia, we would expect someone to have very low 178 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 2: body weight. However, if someone starts at a high body weight, 179 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,319 Speaker 2: they can rapidly lose a lot of weight and show 180 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 2: all the same signs and symptoms as someone with anorexia, 181 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 2: but they just don't have that very low underweight presentation 182 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 2: that we would expect. So this is what we refer 183 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 2: to as atypical anorexia. And the reason we do this 184 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 2: is because we want to ensure these people are receiving 185 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 2: the important care that they need. There's also one other 186 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 2: eating disorder that I'll mention that's a little bit different 187 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 2: to the others, it's called ARFORD, which is avoidant restrictive 188 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 2: food intake disorder. Now, this is a very different kind 189 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 2: of presentation. It's almost what we would refer to as 190 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 2: someone who is quote unquote a bit of a fussy eater. 191 00:10:49,560 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 2: So what we see is that these people really typically 192 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 2: prefer to eat maybe bland foods, or they have sensory 193 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 2: difficulties that makes it hard for them to eat a 194 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 2: wide variety of different foods. This is common for people 195 00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 2: who have things like autism, for example, or other neurodevelopmental 196 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 2: disorders as well. 197 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: Now, I know that you've walked through a few different 198 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: types of eating disorders, and you know you mentioned that 199 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: statistic before around how common eating disorders are Out of 200 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: these different types, are there certain ones that are more 201 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: common than others? 202 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, So the research actually shows the most common classification 203 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 2: is that unspecified category, right, And I think this just 204 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 2: speaks to the so many different ways in which disordered 205 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 2: eating can present for people. So that's actually the most common, 206 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,559 Speaker 2: and then we know from there on it's binge eating disorder, 207 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 2: followed by bilimia and then followed by anorexia. 208 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: And kind of coming back actually to the statistic that 209 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: you mentioned and you were speaking to how many people 210 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: actually have it, but only very few get support. What's 211 00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: the reason behind that? Is that purely a shame piece 212 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: or an awareness piece. 213 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 2: A lot of different things. So for some people it 214 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 2: really can be you know, embarrassment or shame. For some 215 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 2: people it can be not knowing where to turn to 216 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 2: for help. Also, many of our while services for eating 217 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 2: disorders are really quite specialized, they require specialist training to 218 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 2: be an eating disorder clinician, and so there can sometimes 219 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 2: be a lack of services available as well. But the 220 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 2: other important piece is that when people experience an eating disorder, 221 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 2: they often experience this internal division. There is a part 222 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 2: of them that does want to get better and be 223 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 2: better and feel healthy, and there is another part of 224 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 2: them that's the eating disorder that's fighting for survival. And 225 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 2: so the eating disorder can actually prevent people from reaching 226 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 2: out and getting the help that they need. 227 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 1: So what causes an eating disorder? Because I know we 228 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: spoke to around the ideal body and it being society 229 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: that's kind of influencing that, are there other factors beyond that? 230 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 2: Yes, So definitely culture and society influences the development of 231 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 2: eating disorders. If someone's grown up in a household where 232 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 2: there's been a really strong focus on diet culture, this 233 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 2: can be a risk factor. There's of course the genetic 234 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 2: risk factors that come through as well, but also things 235 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 2: like trauma. If you've experienced trauma growing up, you might 236 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 2: be more vulnerable to developing and eating disorder. People who 237 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 2: have a tendency to be quite perfectionistic, to be quite 238 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 2: hard on themselves and very internally critical. But also there's 239 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 2: research showing that control can be a big part. People 240 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 2: who feel like and young people who feel like they 241 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 2: want a sense of control in their life might be 242 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 2: vulnerable to developing and eating disorder. 243 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: Who is most at risk with getting an eating disorder? 244 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 2: So while I said before eating disorders don't discriminate men 245 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 2: and women both experience them, we do know that adolescent 246 00:13:54,680 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 2: females are very vulnerable and vary at risk. There's also 247 00:13:59,680 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 2: certain categories of people who engage in elite sports, so 248 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 2: like elite gymnasts, elite sports people, elite dancers are also 249 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 2: vary at risk. Again, there's a cultural element to that 250 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 2: as well, as you know the genetics that come through 251 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 2: as being of vulnerability as well. But people who have 252 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,359 Speaker 2: high levels of stress, who have other mental health disorders, 253 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 2: that they can all be very vulnerable. 254 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: It was really interesting in what you stated before around 255 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: how eating disorders isn't just experienced by women, it's also 256 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: experienced by men. Can you tell me more about that. 257 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's about thirty three percent of people who have 258 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 2: an eating disorder who are male, right, and if that's 259 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 2: a really significant amount, that's around a third. And I 260 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 2: think we really have to recognize that and acknowledge that 261 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 2: because there can be a lot of stigma and shame 262 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 2: for males who are wanting to reach out to get 263 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 2: support for eating related behaviors because it is seen as 264 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 2: such a typically female thing. It's going to be even 265 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 2: harder for men to reach out and get the help 266 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 2: and support they need if there's stigma around men having 267 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 2: eating disorders. 268 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: What about myths in general? What are some of the 269 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: other myths that are out there when it comes to 270 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: eating disorders. 271 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 2: Well, I think the common one is about who gets 272 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 2: eating disorders? Right that you know it's typically affecting the white, young, 273 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 2: middle class adolescent female. Now we know, yes, they are vulnerable, 274 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 2: but it's not just the case eating disorders can affect 275 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,479 Speaker 2: anyone from any walk of life, doesn't matter their cultural background, 276 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 2: their age, their life experiences. It's true that the peak 277 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 2: onset is between around twelve to twenty five years old, 278 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 2: so we want to definitely be aware of that because 279 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 2: we always know early intervention is best. But realistically, eating 280 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 2: disorders can affect anyone, and they do. 281 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: So I'm all about encouraging people to eat healthy, but 282 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: when does healthy actually start to become harmful? 283 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 2: When is healthy too healthy? Yes? Exactly, yes, So there 284 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 2: is actually a category. It's not officially recognized at the 285 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 2: moment yet in our diagnostic manual, but the research supports it. 286 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 2: It's something called orthorexia, and this is where a person 287 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 2: has as an obsession with healthy or quote unquote clean eating. 288 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 2: So they're very obsessed with kind of the benefits of 289 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 2: health foods. They're always you know, going to the health 290 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 2: food shop. Everything they eat has to be healthy, it 291 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 2: has to be clean. And I mean we see these 292 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 2: trends and fads go through social media as well, right, 293 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 2: so we can definitely be pulled in that direction through 294 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 2: what social media is perpetuating. But we want to be 295 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 2: mindful about, of course, always keeping our food intake in balance. Right. 296 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 2: We if we become obsessively focused with clean, healthy eating, 297 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 2: we run the risk of developing something like orthorexia. 298 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: So interesting you mentioned that term because I've never heard 299 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: of that term before. So there you go. I'm learning something. 300 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: This is great, But I think something else that I 301 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: want to unpack a little bit is you know, body image, 302 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: body positivity. We hear these terms thrown around a lot, 303 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 1: but what does that actually mean to have a healthy relationship. 304 00:17:06,159 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a difference between We've been talking about eating disorders, 305 00:17:09,159 --> 00:17:10,959 Speaker 2: but if we sort of take a sh shift away 306 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 2: from specifically talking about eating disorders to talking about body image. Right, 307 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 2: this is essentially the feelings, the attitudes, the beliefs we 308 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 2: have towards ourselves about our body. It's kind of essentially 309 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 2: how we feel about our body and the relationship we 310 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 2: have with it. 311 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: This is such an enormous topic. We're up against so 312 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:37,679 Speaker 1: many factors, culture, genetic, social media. Stay with us because 313 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: after the shortbreak, doctor Anastasia is going to explain how 314 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 1: we can start building healthier relationships with our bodies. Okay, Anastasia, 315 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,199 Speaker 1: how do we actually start building a healthier relationship with 316 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: our bodies? 317 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 2: It's an excellent question. What I'm going to talk about 318 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 2: relates to body image and not eating disorder specifically, because 319 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 2: with eating disorders, we really want to ensure people are 320 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 2: seeking out specific specialized treatment for their exact conditions. And 321 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 2: I don't want to be giving advice for how to 322 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 2: treat an eating disorder on a podcast, right, So I 323 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 2: recommend people go to their GPS, to health professionals, to 324 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 2: the Butterfly Foundation website and get the relevant information and 325 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 2: treatment that they need. But if we can talk about 326 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 2: body image and how to build a healthier relationship with 327 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 2: our body, my key one word takeaway for our listeners 328 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 2: is acceptance. So acceptance is not the same as approval 329 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 2: or as liking something by me accepting my body, It's 330 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 2: not necessarily me saying that I like every part or 331 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 2: feature about it. Right. The thing is, if we look 332 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 2: for something wrong, or if we look for something that 333 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 2: we don't like about our body, I guarantee you we 334 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:55,919 Speaker 2: will find it. And if you want to try a 335 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 2: little bit of an experiment for anyone listening along, hold 336 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 2: up your hand and just take a moment to look 337 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 2: at it right like, and I mean really look at 338 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 2: it in depth, look at the details, Look at the 339 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 2: little wrinkles, the little the little veins that pop through, 340 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 2: and just notice all the bits that you haven't ever 341 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 2: really quite noticed before. I can see I'm a nail bier, 342 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,439 Speaker 2: self confessed nail bier. I can see little bits of 343 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,640 Speaker 2: my nails that are all crooked, and I can see 344 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 2: bits of skin that don't look so great, and I 345 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,679 Speaker 2: can see, you know, veins that are coming through my 346 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 2: skin that the more I look at them, the more 347 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 2: kind of off putting they look. Right, if we focus 348 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:44,640 Speaker 2: on anything heavily and look for flaws, will find it right. 349 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 2: And the same applies for our body when we're constantly 350 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 2: getting so much messaging about how our body should be. 351 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 2: If we hyper focus on our bodies and what they 352 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 2: should look like, we will find perceived flaws in them. 353 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 2: So that's why it's not necessarily about liking every little 354 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 2: part of our body. It's about accepting it for what 355 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 2: it is. 356 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 1: It kind of reminds me, and it's somewhat on topic, 357 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 1: but when you buy a car and then you see 358 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: that same car everywhere, it's like, it's amazing how the 359 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 1: power of our perception, Like, how much power our perception holds. 360 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, if we choose to focus on something, we 361 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 2: will see it. Right if you tell yourself every day 362 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 2: I don't like I don't know the shape of my nose, Right, 363 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 2: every time I look in the mirror, I'm going to 364 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 2: be focusing on my nose because it's what's at the 365 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 2: forefront of my thinking. Yeah, And I would actually encourage 366 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,679 Speaker 2: people to go maybe even one step further than the 367 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 2: body acceptance if they're willing to, and that is leaning 368 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 2: into gratitude. Can we not just accept our body for 369 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 2: what it is, but can we actually look towards having 370 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 2: gratitude for what our body can actually do? So this 371 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 2: is where we sort of shift our attention more away 372 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 2: from what our body looks like to the function of 373 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:04,360 Speaker 2: our body. So again I invite listeners to just sort 374 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 2: of take a moment of pause and reflection and think 375 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 2: about the things that your body does every single day 376 00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 2: that keeps you running, that keeps you functioning, and try 377 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,679 Speaker 2: to open yourself up to gratitude for those things. You know, 378 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 2: Can I be grateful for the fact that I have 379 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 2: lungs that help me breathe every day? Can I be 380 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 2: grateful for the fact that I have legs that walk 381 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 2: me around every day. Can I be grateful the fact 382 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 2: that I have a voice and I can sing along 383 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 2: in the car to all sorts of songs when I 384 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 2: feel like it right personally for me, I go, you 385 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 2: know what, I'm grateful for my hands. I love to 386 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 2: play the piano and my fingers and my hands help 387 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 2: me play the piano. I don't know if you've got 388 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 2: any Ashani that you're grateful for, for what your body 389 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 2: can do that you can lean into. 390 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 1: I feel like for me my legs, I'm really grateful 391 00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: for my legs. I've had a very much a love 392 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: hate relationship with them, but I'm grateful for my legs 393 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 1: because it helps me to get from one place to another. Yeah. 394 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 2: Absolutely. And if there are particular parts of the body 395 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 2: that people are struggling with, you know, if I struggle 396 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 2: with my stomach and my tummy, can I reframe that 397 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 2: to go, you know what? Actually, I'm grateful for my stomach, 398 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,679 Speaker 2: for the fact that it can process food and that 399 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,439 Speaker 2: it can keep me alive and working and nourishing and 400 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 2: fueling the body in the way that it needs to. 401 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 1: And it's really interesting because even me talking about my legs, 402 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:33,120 Speaker 1: it felt unnatural talking about what I was grateful for, 403 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 1: And I can imagine there's an element of just knowing 404 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 1: that this is a new muscle we're developing. We're so 405 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: used to being so critical on the parts of our body, 406 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: and now we're shifting gears to practice this muscle of gratitude. 407 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: So I can imagine we'll take time. 408 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely and if we like really stop and think 409 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 2: about all the amazing, incredible things the body can do, 410 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 2: like think in depth, think tendons, think muscles, thinks blood cells, 411 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 2: and you know, everything else that makes up the inner 412 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 2: workings of the body. We almost do it a disservice 413 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 2: by focusing so much on just the outward appearance of it. 414 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 2: There's so much under the skin that's working all the 415 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,640 Speaker 2: time when we're awake and when we're asleep that does 416 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 2: so much. So there's really a lot there to be 417 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 2: grateful for. 418 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: And it's really great that we're focusing on building the 419 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,120 Speaker 1: muscle of gratitude because I feel often it's only when 420 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: you know, we injure ourselves that we actually start to realize, oh, 421 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 1: I should be more grateful for this, but I wasn't before. 422 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 2: Absolutely, Sometimes it takes losing something or as you said, 423 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 2: having an injury or suffering in some way for us 424 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 2: to really recognize what we have to be grateful for. 425 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: So, how do we build a healthy relationship with our 426 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: body in the midst of social media and media, because 427 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: the reality is these things aren't going anywhere. 428 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, critical thinking is what I recommend here. Right, We're 429 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 2: going to get TikTok reels and news headlines and stories 430 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:02,400 Speaker 2: that sell that catch our attention, that maybe sometimes polarizing, 431 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,959 Speaker 2: and so this is really where we need to hone 432 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 2: into our critical thinking skills when it comes to what 433 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 2: is and isn't real on social media and what maybe 434 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 2: we should be taking with a grain of salt. There's 435 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 2: nothing wrong with wanting to look and feel a particular 436 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,439 Speaker 2: way in our body. Right. This segment is not to 437 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 2: say that anyone who values their appearance is wrong or 438 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,640 Speaker 2: not good. Absolutely we can value that. We've just got 439 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 2: to make sure we value it in conjunction with other 440 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 2: important things as well. 441 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: After this shortbreak, we hear from a woman who's worried 442 00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: her friend might be displayed symptoms of disordered eating and 443 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:47,439 Speaker 1: he's wondering how we can address it. Stay with us, baby, 444 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: Barb Barby, I'm having a serious cristis BRB having a crisis. 445 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: We've reached the time in our episode where we answer 446 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: a question or dilemma from one of you. This dilemma 447 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:00,880 Speaker 1: comes from Claudia. 448 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 2: I'm really worried about a close friend. 449 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 4: I've been noticing signs that are pointing towards disordered eating. 450 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 4: When we go out, she never eats anything, and this 451 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 4: has been how inconsistently for a few months now. There's 452 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 4: definitely a pattern. If I suggest getting brunch or dinner, 453 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 4: she'll steer us towards doing something that doesn't involve food, 454 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 4: and she looks unwell, like genuinely malnourished, and it feels 455 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 4: as if it's starting to affect her personality and her energy. 456 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 4: I care about her a lot, but I'm struggling with 457 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 4: how to handle it. I don't want to make her 458 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 4: feel judged or defensive, or like I'm crossing a line. 459 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 4: But at the same time, staying silent doesn't feel right either. 460 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 2: I don't know if any of our. 461 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 4: Mutual friends or her family have noticed. So should I 462 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 4: bring it up with her directly, check in with someone 463 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,199 Speaker 4: close to her, or should I just stay out of it? 464 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 2: Claudia, this is a tough one, and I feel for 465 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,640 Speaker 2: you and your friend who it sounds like he's going 466 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 2: through a really hard time at the moment. My takeaway 467 00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 2: recommendation for you is not necessarily what to say to 468 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 2: your friend, because at the end of the day, you 469 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 2: know her best, you know how she's going to react 470 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 2: and respond, you know the best way to approach her. 471 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 2: But I would suggest this approach care and curiosity. Curiosity 472 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 2: is a foundational quality that we can come to relationships 473 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 2: with and hard conversations with. It allows for us and 474 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 2: others to communicate in a really open and vulnerable way. 475 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,360 Speaker 2: So if you do decide to have a conversation with her, 476 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 2: which is what I would recommend, then I would say 477 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 2: approach it with this genuine openness and curiosity, where you're 478 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 2: not passing judgments, you're not assuming you know what's going 479 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,360 Speaker 2: on for her, you're not assuming you know what she's 480 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 2: struggling with, but you really just want to understand how 481 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 2: she's going and what she might be struggling with. And 482 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 2: if your friends can feel that genuineness and that openness 483 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 2: and curiosity from you, there's a greater chance she might 484 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 2: be open to wanting to sort of share how she's 485 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 2: feeling and what she might be struggling with. So really 486 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 2: leaning to the care and the curiosity, I would recommend 487 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 2: you have a conversation with her because one of the 488 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 2: things we know with a lot of mental health conditions, 489 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 2: but also eating disorders, is that the earlier we can intervene, 490 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 2: the better, and the conversation you might have with your 491 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 2: friend might just be the starting point for her to 492 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 2: talk to someone about it. And maybe she's never spoken 493 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,640 Speaker 2: to anyone about her eating patterns before, so you might 494 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 2: actually be the first person who's had the courage to 495 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 2: reflect to her how she might be going and if 496 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,679 Speaker 2: she needs help with anything, you might be the first 497 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 2: person she's ever been able to talk to this about. 498 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 2: And if you're not, you might just be the person 499 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 2: who helps her take that next step. So congratulations for 500 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 2: being a great friend, for noticing that your friend is struggling, 501 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 2: and for having the willingness and the courage to be 502 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 2: able to have a conversation with her. 503 00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:05,640 Speaker 1: Good luck, Claudia, we know you've got this. Anastasia, can 504 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 1: you reiterate some of the main takeaways from today's episode. 505 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 2: Absolutely, First of all, eating disorders are serious mental health conditions, 506 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 2: so if you're worried that you or someone you know 507 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 2: might be suffering from disordered eating, reach out to a 508 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,679 Speaker 2: health professional or a GP to get the relevant treatment. Second, 509 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 2: it's important to know that recovery from eating disorders is 510 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 2: possible with treatment. Third, even if we don't have an 511 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 2: eating disorder, we can still struggle with our body image. 512 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 2: And lastly, we can change how we feel about our 513 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 2: body by practicing acceptance and gratitude. 514 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: If you have a burning question for us, there are 515 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: a few ways to get in touch with us, links 516 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: through in the show notes. 517 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 2: And remember, while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't 518 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 2: a diagnostic tool, and the advice and ideas we present 519 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:01,479 Speaker 2: here should always take into account your personal medical history. 520 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 2: The executive producer of But Are You Happy is Naima Brown. 521 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Tarlie Blackman. 522 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 2: Sound design and editing by. 523 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: Jacob I'm Ashani Dante. 524 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 2: And I'm doctor Anaesthesia heronus. The names and stories of 525 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 2: clients discussed have been changed for the purpose of maintaining anonymity. 526 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 2: If this conversation brought up any difficult feelings for you, 527 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 2: we have links for more resources in the show notes. 528 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 2: Around the topics we discussed today. You can also reach 529 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 2: out to organizations like Beyond Blue, Lifeline or the Butterfly 530 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 2: Foundation if you're wanting more immediate support. Next week, we 531 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 2: discuss how to have what I call a good fight, 532 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 2: one that's free from criticism, defensiveness, and all those traps 533 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 2: we fall into when emotions run high. 534 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: Mamma Mia Studios are starred with furniture from Fenton and Fenton. 535 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: Visit Fentonanfentin dot com dot au. Thanks for listening, See 536 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: you next time