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Speaker 1: So much. You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma

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Speaker 1: Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders that

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Speaker 1: this podcast is recorded on from Mamma Mia. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Spill your daily pop culture fix. I'm Laura Brodnick,

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Speaker 1: and today we're here for a very special episode because

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Speaker 1: we're going to be decoding and disgusting and maybe fighting

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Speaker 1: about Taylor Swift's new album, The Life of the Show Girl.

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Speaker 1: And because this is such a special event, I've had

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Speaker 1: to bring in two experts, so we have Tina Burke,

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Speaker 1: would like to share your Taylor Swift credentials and I'll

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Speaker 1: decide if you're allowed to stay at the table.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I am Mamma MIA's pop culture and social editor,

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Speaker 2: so for work, I'm very online. I've been a Swiftie

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Speaker 2: since the Fearless era, and I met her in the

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Speaker 2: Fearless era because I won tickets through the radio.

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Speaker 1: So it's very credentials, very deep in Taylor Swifts. I've

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Speaker 1: touched her hand, we've had a moment. It's been fun,

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Speaker 1: huge news. A few light restraints out there.

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Speaker 2: Zero point zero five percent of fans on Spotify wrapped

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Speaker 2: every year like listen to her more than some people

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Speaker 2: listen to music in total.

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Speaker 1: So I guess there's that. You know, I am a

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Speaker 1: swifty of source. Okay, you can stay. Thanks, And on

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Speaker 1: my other side, if you're watching this on YouTube, we

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Speaker 1: have preplayer and can you explain your credentials? We might leave.

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Speaker 1: We might leave a good ten minutes of the pod

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Speaker 1: for this because you are our secret swifty insider for

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Speaker 1: this episode. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So, I've been a fan of Taylor since debut Era.

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Speaker 3: When I have to give my sister a shout out,

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Speaker 3: she said, You've got to listen to this new singer

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Speaker 3: I found. We went and saw her in Melbourne at Billboard.

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Speaker 3: The venue I don't even think it exists anymore, but

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Speaker 3: venue capacity of about three hundred people. I have since

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Speaker 3: seen her I think seventeen times. Wow, seven of which

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Speaker 3: was on the eras you.

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Speaker 1: Were like jetting across the world.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So I did LA, I did for Sydney, I

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Speaker 3: did Miami, and I did New Orleans. I have wrapped

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Speaker 3: up just as many hours, if not more, then then.

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Speaker 1: Tina has lost.

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Speaker 3: I did calculate over the weekend how many minutes I

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Speaker 3: spent listening to the torture parts department. It was over

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Speaker 3: seventy thousand. Wow, it's been a year, guys.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you left this year alone, not even the

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Speaker 1: album releases. Yeah, exactly. You're a big sifety. You're also

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Speaker 1: the executive producer of Mumba's podcast No Filter. We've roped

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Speaker 1: you in for this, Yes, you wrote me in for

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Speaker 1: this today are a Tails insider. You actually received this

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Speaker 1: new album quite early? Is that you can tell us through.

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Speaker 4: That I did?

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 3: So the last couple of albums I have been sent

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Speaker 3: in advance to review, which I feel like is the

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Speaker 3: whole reason why I do my job. And actually I

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Speaker 3: got sent it a little bit earlier than I expected.

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Speaker 3: I was actually out at dinner on Wednesday and it

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Speaker 3: landed with me, and then I had to go and

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Speaker 3: sit through an entire opening night of Rent with it

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Speaker 3: burning a.

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Speaker 4: Hole in my pocket.

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Speaker 3: I cove run out of the run home, but I

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Speaker 3: did as soon as I got home put it on.

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Speaker 3: So I had a listen that night a couple of

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Speaker 3: times through before I went to bed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you wrote a review for mom and me

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Speaker 2: that we shared on the side, And so it's on

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Speaker 2: the weekend and everyone was sharing it across to you know,

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Speaker 2: have their big feelings.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, which we have so many feelings. So now we've

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Speaker 1: established both your credentials and just a fanchise. Just I

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Speaker 1: like her a lot, but I will say many hours

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Speaker 1: of my life spent on the family computer back in

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Speaker 1: high school looking up every debut performance she'd ever done

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Speaker 1: being on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: Does anyone remember when she performed with def Leopard? If

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Speaker 2: you do, not, go watch it right now. She's like

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Speaker 2: a teenager performing with like a sixty year old rock band.

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Speaker 1: It's so good. But we've we've dedicated our lives to

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Speaker 1: loving her. So here we are today. Yeah, now that

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Speaker 1: I've got my two experts absolutely, which I must say,

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Speaker 1: you've both decorated, or you've decorated if you're watching this

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Speaker 1: on a YouTube channel Swifty than Yeah, we've got the

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Speaker 1: new record here the life of a showgir, which are

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Speaker 1: going to chat about. There are friendship bracelets draped across

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Speaker 1: the table. There's Taylor Swift memorabilia behind me. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: a real Why didn't even say that one before nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty nine? Right behind me Taylor's verse? Do you want

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Speaker 1: to tell the spillers? What's on your wrist? Laura? Oh?

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Speaker 1: I have three friendship bracelets that were gifted to me

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Speaker 1: by Tina Burke when she heard that. I went to

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Speaker 1: the RAS tour, which is the first time teen Taylor Swiftly,

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Speaker 1: and I really did like Sweller Alert. I thought it

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Speaker 1: was a good show. Whatever said that, this is a

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Speaker 1: great show, this kid's great and no one gave me

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Speaker 1: a friendship bracelet. I don't know if I have an

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Speaker 1: off putting aura or yeah, I think I do. People

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Speaker 1: always say this.

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Speaker 3: Maybe people could smell it was your first show.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they were like, no, I'm a real fan. So

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Speaker 1: Tina gave me these and I'm so excited to wear

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Speaker 1: them and maybe I'll pill for some off the table.

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Speaker 1: So we are talking about the Life of a show Girl,

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Speaker 1: which came out on Friday. It broke streaming records across Spotify,

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Speaker 1: Apple Music, and Amazon Music. It also sold I think

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Speaker 1: a two point seven million copies in a single day,

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Speaker 1: which is the single highest ever behind Adele. But then

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Speaker 1: it also went on to break all the vinyl records,

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Speaker 1: which I think is where the truth fans like yourselves

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Speaker 1: were buying, with one point two millions sold in the

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Speaker 1: first twenty four hours, which topped the Tortured Poets Department,

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Speaker 1: So Taylor sieved beating herself and she's gone on to

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Speaker 1: break many a record since then. So we're going to

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Speaker 1: do first impressions free first impressions of the album.

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Speaker 3: Well, my first impression, obviously I listened after three hours

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Speaker 3: of Rent late at night, but my first impression was

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Speaker 3: that it wasn't what well, actually, I didn't have any expectations.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't what anyone was expecting, and that was the

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Speaker 3: first thing that hit me. We know that she's returned

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Speaker 3: to having Max Martin and Shellback producing this album after

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Speaker 3: many years of Jack Antonov and Aaron Dezna, so everyone

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Speaker 3: was expecting really poppy vibes, which we got on nineteen

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Speaker 3: eighty nine with Max and Shellback producing and most of

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Speaker 3: REP as well. It's not like either of those And

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Speaker 3: for the people that were expecting it, I think there's

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Speaker 3: been some comments that people aren't that wrapped in it,

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Speaker 3: that we're hoping for a nineteen eighty nine part two.

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Speaker 3: I wasn't hoping for nineteen eighty nine part two. I'm

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Speaker 3: really enjoying it. I love this album. It's not my

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Speaker 3: favorite album, but it will get a lot of rotations.

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Speaker 1: For me, what's your favorite album? Just so I know

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Speaker 1: what we're kind of measuring again.

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Speaker 3: I would say Poets, so interesting, yeah, I would say Poets.

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Speaker 3: And this is the opposite end of the spectrum. You've

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Speaker 3: got like devastated Taylor versus happy Taylor. Yeah, or like

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Speaker 3: a statically confident happy Taylor. So it's, you know, total

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Speaker 3: opposite sides of the spectrum.

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Speaker 4: I love a sad song.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, that's so true. And Tina, what were your

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Speaker 1: first impressions because you were sitting alone at home on Friday,

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Speaker 1: his workdays, and you were like, I could feel the

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Speaker 1: tension across our like text message and stuff on the

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Speaker 1: day of the build up, so you were quite you're

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Speaker 1: quite nervous. I was nervous.

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Speaker 2: And then like, you know, two PM hits in every

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Speaker 2: group chat I've ever been a part of. Everyone's texting

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Speaker 2: me to tell me they've started, and like they're like

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Speaker 2: live texting their reactions. But I'm working and setting liveze

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Speaker 2: amazing review of putting it across our social channels and

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Speaker 2: doing work. All of this Showgirl reaction.

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Speaker 1: I think your boss would have mind if you listened

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Speaker 1: to that people, you're my boss.

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Speaker 2: If you would have mind if you listened to it

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Speaker 2: and like, I was getting up social post because Taylor

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Speaker 2: Post is some picks. So it was maybe like fifteen

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Speaker 2: twenty minutes after it had come out. I started listening

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Speaker 2: to it and like, I feel like I'm getting bombarded

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Speaker 2: with messages. Well it's happening, So it's a bit strange.

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Speaker 2: But my reaction to the first four tracks was this

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Speaker 2: was nothing like I expected. I think the same. I

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Speaker 2: didn't know what sound to expect from her. I think

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Speaker 2: this is a different sound than what she has done before.

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Speaker 2: The theming was very different. I was really enjoying it.

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Speaker 2: I thought she sounded just like super Ethereal. Even though

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Speaker 2: it was poppy. I was loving it. Didn't love track five.

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Speaker 2: We can talk about that in depth later, but I

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Speaker 2: think my overall reaction to the album is I really

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Speaker 2: love some of these songs.

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Speaker 1: They are songs I want to dance to. They are

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Speaker 1: songs I want to like Blast in the Car. It's

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Speaker 1: not my.

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Speaker 2: Favorite album, and I also I'm okay with that, Like

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Speaker 2: the girl has given us her entire life and all

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Speaker 2: of her music and all of her albums, and everything

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Speaker 2: doesn't have to be for me all the time.

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Speaker 1: But I don't really sure.

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Speaker 2: I think if you see the way some people have

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Speaker 2: reacted online, way to god, Taylor murdered them like it's fine,

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Speaker 2: she can release a pop album and you don't have

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Speaker 2: to like it.

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Speaker 1: But I actually do.

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Speaker 2: I really like some of the songs. I think they're

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Speaker 2: really fun and I had a good time. I'll definitely

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Speaker 2: be playing this one and repeat. But no, it's not

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Speaker 2: my top of the top nana.

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Speaker 1: Okay. So with that in mind, now we know we're

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Speaker 1: all our players, Stan, I think it feels like a

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Speaker 1: good time to get into some of the reactions and

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Speaker 1: some of the criticism and praise before we start deep

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Speaker 1: diving into some songs from the album. So when it

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Speaker 1: came out, there were some very very positive, glowing reviews.

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Speaker 1: Yours was very positively Rolling Stone, quite a few others.

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Speaker 1: There were quite a few negative ones. The New York

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Speaker 1: mag went to town saying that she's lost her sound.

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Speaker 1: It was an imaginative and inventive and a lot of

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Speaker 1: other very intense things. I think the standout critique for

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Speaker 1: me came from The Guardian, who said dull razzle, dazzle

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Speaker 1: from a musician who seems frazzled. So very kind of

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Speaker 1: across the board, and I wanted to get your thoughts

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Speaker 1: on some of the biggest I guess some of the

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Speaker 1: biggest critiques of it, since you guys are in the

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Speaker 1: weeds of it. And one of the biggest critiques that

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Speaker 1: came strow off the back is that people felt miss

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Speaker 1: led by the Showgirl messaging and felt like she had

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Speaker 1: done a huge marketing push with the Showgirl asthetic basically

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Speaker 1: because she thought that would be very good visually, but

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Speaker 1: it didn't tie into the album. Yeah, I mean it.

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying this is this is one of the

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Speaker 1: big critique I think you What I will say is

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Speaker 1: that I relate to that a little bit.

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Speaker 2: I think she made it super clear that this was

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Speaker 2: the life behind the scenes of a showgirl. But obviously

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Speaker 2: the aesthetic itself is showgirl because she's in all the outfits.

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Speaker 2: She looks incredible, and maybe she just wanted to look

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Speaker 2: really cute and as Sparkley song and I think that's okay,

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Speaker 2: but she looks amazing, she's in all this showgirl stuff.

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Speaker 2: I think some people were a little bit disappointed that

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Speaker 2: there weren't more songs that were like the really intense

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Speaker 2: and an intense version of I Can Do It with

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Speaker 2: a Broken Heart from Tortured Poets. I think some people

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Speaker 2: thought that would be the whole vibe of the album,

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Speaker 2: but she made it pretty clear that this was her

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Speaker 2: life behind the scenes. It's just that maybe it is

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Speaker 2: a bit more focused on her like actual life and

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Speaker 2: the things that were happening to her personally, rather than

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Speaker 2: here's what it's like to deal with all this pressure

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Speaker 2: and all this fame. There's still songs that address it,

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Speaker 2: there's still things that do but I understand a little

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Speaker 2: bit of the disappointment maybe.

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Speaker 1: But I got over that very quickly. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think that like the artwork that we've seen with

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Speaker 3: the big zig field folly plumes and razzle dazz on,

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Speaker 3: all that sparkle and everything, there are people that have

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Speaker 3: been misled thinking that they're going to get Broadway.

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Speaker 1: The Greater Showman, right.

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Speaker 3: But this is the album cover, like we have seen

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Speaker 3: lots of other artwork. But she looks like a pop

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Speaker 3: star here. She looks like what she is, you know.

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Speaker 3: And she talked about in the making of the Ophelia

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Speaker 3: of Music video that she wants to focus on the

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Speaker 3: showgirl through the different eras to what she is today,

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Speaker 3: and we did just see her stage the biggest show

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Speaker 3: in the world. So her behind the scenes of being

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Speaker 3: a showgirl in the twenty twenties is.

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Speaker 2: This, and there are songs that address it, and we're

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Speaker 2: gonna die into them. But in terms of yeah, the criticism, like,

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Speaker 2: as much as I think they're valid things to critique,

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Speaker 2: I think everyone's entitled to their own opinions. Some of

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Speaker 2: the criticism I've learned to just brush off a little

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Speaker 2: bit with Taylor because she.

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Speaker 1: Don't mean to shake it off.

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Speaker 2: Oh look at you a secretly the biggest check your credit,

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I do. I learned to shake it off

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Speaker 2: because people react to the same way every time. There

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Speaker 2: has not been a Taylor album in my lifetime that

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Speaker 2: people haven't reacted to by going, she sucks, she fell off.

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Speaker 1: This is the worst thing she's ever done except folklore.

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Speaker 3: Except Folklore, which then I think there were people that

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Speaker 3: said it in quite a condescend exactly. It was like,

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Speaker 3: how did you do this? You know, you managed to

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Speaker 3: put out this album.

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Speaker 2: That's actually good, And she said all in the lead

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Speaker 2: up to this, right, this was supposed to be twelve

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Speaker 2: type tracks, sonically themed like really high production, really hyper pop,

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Speaker 2: because the complaints about Tortured Poets Department was that too

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Speaker 2: many songs, not edited enough, too wordy, to whatever.

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Speaker 1: And then you know, for Midnights.

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Speaker 2: There were complaints as well that like the pop sound

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Speaker 2: they didn't like because it wasn't the same as folklore

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Speaker 2: and evermore. And then there were complaints about Rep and

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Speaker 2: Lover because those had too many cringe lyrics, those had

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Speaker 2: too many bops. So while I appreciate everyone's ability to

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Speaker 2: complain and have the critiques that they want to have,

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Speaker 2: I'm also like, it's just the way it is now.

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Speaker 2: She's reached a height where people get mad, and I think, okay,

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Speaker 2: we're so used to it.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, it's the same cycle every time. There'll be the

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Speaker 3: glowing reviews that generally come from places that matter, you know,

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Speaker 3: Rolling Stone, Billboard, the places she cares about and cares

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Speaker 3: about what they have to say, The New York Times

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Speaker 3: as well. Then there's always the negative ones because they

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Speaker 3: get good engagement and all of that kind of thing.

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Speaker 3: But also, we don't need everyone.

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Speaker 4: To love it in order to enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: I actually love if they didn't, because getting tickets was

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Speaker 1: really hard. Yeah, you would love the fandom to just have.

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Speaker 2: I got floor seats so close to the stage and reputation,

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Speaker 2: and then I couldn't even buy tickets to the errors

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Speaker 2: to her, I don't actually mind if she falls off

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Speaker 2: a little bit. I'm not worried about that, and I

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Speaker 2: don't think Taylor is.

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Speaker 3: Also, you know, as you pointed out already for people

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Speaker 3: saying they don't like it or getting bad reviews or whatever.

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Speaker 3: It's on track to potentially eclipse Adele's first week sales

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Speaker 3: and is projected to hit three point five to four million.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I guess for me, the one thing from the

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Speaker 2: critiques that I'm seeing from a lot of major swifties

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Speaker 2: and from maybe some of these reviews that I thought,

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Speaker 2: you know, what I do agree with that is that

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Speaker 2: there wasn't that one standout song for me that normally

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Speaker 2: like punches me in the gut. And it doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 2: have to be about heartbreak or sadness. It doesn't matter

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Speaker 2: what it is, but there is always like something on

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Speaker 2: there that pulls out and you really relate to, no

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Speaker 2: matter who you are. And I am seeing people say

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Speaker 2: that there's not necessarily a relatability in this album, and

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Speaker 2: not because she's in love because she's written about being

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Speaker 2: in love before, but that maybe and again, well, this

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Speaker 2: is the life of a show goal. It's not really relatable,

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Speaker 2: and I don't think it was ever meant to be.

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Speaker 2: But I do agree with the Swifties who were like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I feel like they can't put their finger on what

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Speaker 2: it is. Yeah, they like something's missing for them, and

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Speaker 2: I do understand that because I love a lot of

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Speaker 2: songs and I'm loving this album, but I get it

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Speaker 2: there's something that isn't there for me.

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Speaker 1: And that's the other sort of criticism. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: get you both your thoughts song, because one is that

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Speaker 1: she's become overly unrelatable. There's too many mentions to wealth

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Speaker 1: and her star status. And the other one is that

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Speaker 1: the lyricism a lot of critics are saying has fallen

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Speaker 1: off and there's some very unfair ties to Joe Owen,

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Speaker 1: her former partner of many years, people saying that he

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Speaker 1: needs written the song. And do you know what your

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Speaker 1: thoughts are on that? What do you think on that

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Speaker 1: idea that people think both her lyricism and her relatability

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Speaker 1: have fallen off too much in this album? Well, I

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Speaker 1: mean I saw a tweet that said that, you know,

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Speaker 1: she'd sacrificed bops for lyrics on Poets, and then lyrics

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Speaker 1: for bops on this.

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Speaker 3: I mean it goes back to the thing that people

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Speaker 3: want what they don't have on each album and compare

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Speaker 3: it to the previous one and the one before that.

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Speaker 3: But everyone complained about Poets.

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Speaker 1: I was definding good album with my life. By the way, we.

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Speaker 3: All know Joe's penn did not touch that album lyrically stunning.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, okay, So getting into some of the songs,

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Speaker 1: We're going to start with some of the happier bops

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Speaker 1: at the top that very much I guess chronicle her

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Speaker 1: love story with Travis Kelce, which is opolite would of course,

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Speaker 1: and I guess also the Fate.

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Speaker 2: Of absolutely pulls her out of that like mad Hey darkness,

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Speaker 2: like she very much is comparing herself obviously to that

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Speaker 2: character of Ophelia, and of all people, Hamlet to Maddie Healley,

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Speaker 2: and who doesn't love that comparison. I'm sure he's having

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Speaker 2: a great time today, Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So yeah, the album opens with the Fate of Ophelia,

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Speaker 3: which I read in my review, and I picks up

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Speaker 3: the thread from where Pollet's left off. She was drowning

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Speaker 3: in a sea of her own tears and her own

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Speaker 3: misery that was put there by a man who promised

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Speaker 3: to love her. Obviously it didn't work out, and then

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Speaker 3: Travis came along and rescued her from that fate of Ophelia.

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Speaker 3: Then what follows are several tracks that speak to her

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Speaker 3: really confident happiness. And I think we've had her talk

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Speaker 3: about being really happy and in love before, but there

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Speaker 3: was always some sort of reservation there. And I think

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Speaker 3: that's why this for a lot of Swifties has had

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Speaker 3: that inability to relate to Yeah, And I know where

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Speaker 3: they feel that they don't feel that confident in their love.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And like for me, these are like put them on,

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Speaker 2: dance around while you're cleaning the house, go out with

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Speaker 2: the girls, have a drink, have a dance like. They're

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Speaker 2: very fun pop songs. Now I don't relate to it.

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Speaker 2: I'm not happy and in love, but I'm still.

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Speaker 4: Having a good time exactly.

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Speaker 2: I think what's missing, like you said, is like I

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Speaker 2: compare this album a lot to Lover, and that's because

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Speaker 2: Lover was similarly quite a happy love album.

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Speaker 1: There were a lot of songs on there.

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Speaker 2: That if they were released on Friday with this album

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Speaker 2: would also have been called like bad the way that

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Speaker 2: people are like this album sucks. They said the same

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Speaker 2: thing about Lover, but I think with Lover there was

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Speaker 2: a lot of anxiety right the love songs was.

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Speaker 3: Cornelia Street was already setting up for like I hope

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Speaker 3: I never lose you. Yeah, Like she's projecting that she's

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Speaker 3: going to on Lover she knows.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, whereas now she's like this guy saved me from

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Speaker 1: my sadness and isn't this fun? Let's do a dance.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's not necessarily the most relatable for some people.

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Speaker 1: I did see.

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Speaker 2: People saying online this made me cackle, but I do

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Speaker 2: think it's true. They were like they bought tickets to

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Speaker 2: Hairspray and then expected La misera.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god, isn't that so true?

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Speaker 2: Like she's made it clear this is an album of

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Speaker 2: bops and like an album about how obsessed she is

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Speaker 2: with her football playing fiance who she loves dearly, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: maybe we're not going to relate, but you can have

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Speaker 2: a boogie.

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Speaker 1: And I saw a lot of criticism too that it

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Speaker 1: kind of misunderstood Ophelia's story from Hamlet, and I was

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Speaker 1: a little bit like, but it's her. I don't think

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Speaker 1: she's trying to tell I don't think it's meant to

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Speaker 1: be a history lesson in that particular Shakespearean story. There's

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Speaker 1: been thousands of words written about Ophelia's plight and what

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Speaker 1: it means and how the men kind of wronged her

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Speaker 1: in that and everything. I think Taylor's a sort of

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Speaker 1: just kind of like cherry picking one little thread from

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Speaker 1: that story and putting it into her song, and that

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Speaker 1: feels okay. I don't think we need her whole story.

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Speaker 2: I think tragic is when she said she was the

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Speaker 2: English teacher, they were like, she's going to explain the

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Speaker 2: plot of this play.

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Speaker 1: I might have to just read, like you might just

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Speaker 1: need to read something.

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Speaker 3: Doesn't everyone look for what they relate to in a character.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's actually what Swifties look for and what

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Speaker 3: we're talking about now, what they relate to in her songs.

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Speaker 3: They cherry picked the bits that do. There are things

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Speaker 3: that I relate to weirdly. I relate to Father Figure,

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Speaker 3: but there's a lot of this album that I just

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Speaker 3: don't relate to and that's fine.

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Speaker 4: I take away what I do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I need to relate to every song in

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Speaker 1: the world. Sometimes I just want to bop. No.

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Speaker 2: I really love like there's something mesmerizing about that first

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Speaker 2: verse of Ophelia for me, Like something about Fortnite from

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Speaker 2: Torture Poets really like captured me. And I know it's

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Speaker 2: just because it was like it was a big song,

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Speaker 2: million like billions of streams, I believe, but like there's

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Speaker 2: something in the voice that's just so hypnotic to me

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Speaker 2: that like that song. When I started listening, I was like, oh,

427
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Speaker 2: like my eye was twitching. I was like, this album

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Speaker 2: is gonna be good.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I really the real tone and quality that she has.

430
00:18:40,384 --> 00:18:40,624
Speaker 1: Yeah.

431
00:18:40,664 --> 00:18:42,824
Speaker 2: And then it goes into Elizabeth Taylor, which also is

432
00:18:42,824 --> 00:18:44,704
Speaker 2: a bit like about Travis and like.

433
00:18:44,664 --> 00:18:46,904
Speaker 1: It's like he's the Richard Burton, She's the Elizabeth Taylor.

434
00:18:46,944 --> 00:18:48,744
Speaker 1: The amount of people in mine who have said I

435
00:18:48,784 --> 00:18:51,584
Speaker 1: just met out Elizabeth Taylor's a real person. I can't

436
00:18:51,944 --> 00:18:54,184
Speaker 1: deal with that. She hasn't been dead for that long

437
00:18:54,264 --> 00:18:56,624
Speaker 1: and she's one of the most famous Hollywood icons in

438
00:18:56,624 --> 00:18:58,944
Speaker 1: the entire world. Like I feel like she's this isn't

439
00:18:58,944 --> 00:19:01,264
Speaker 1: gonna become a history lessen Elizabeth Taylor. But I just

440
00:19:01,504 --> 00:19:02,864
Speaker 1: I could not believe this.

441
00:19:02,984 --> 00:19:06,344
Speaker 3: Also isn't the first time Taylor's reference to Elizabeth Taylor.

442
00:19:06,504 --> 00:19:08,024
Speaker 3: There was the reference on.

443
00:19:08,064 --> 00:19:09,744
Speaker 2: Rare and like, do we think she just likes saying

444
00:19:09,744 --> 00:19:12,984
Speaker 2: the name because she it's to say, she's like.

445
00:19:12,984 --> 00:19:14,944
Speaker 1: That's a cool way to pick like one of the

446
00:19:14,984 --> 00:19:18,464
Speaker 1: biggest Hollywood icons ever and someone who's synonymous with glamour

447
00:19:18,464 --> 00:19:20,504
Speaker 1: but also being ripped part by the media, someone whose

448
00:19:20,544 --> 00:19:23,984
Speaker 1: love life has been dissected, someone whose mythology became bigger

449
00:19:23,984 --> 00:19:26,024
Speaker 1: than the person they are, Like, that's Elizabeth Taylor.

450
00:19:26,104 --> 00:19:27,984
Speaker 2: And I saw people saying like, oh, she shouldn't compare

451
00:19:27,984 --> 00:19:29,104
Speaker 2: herself to her, she's an icon.

452
00:19:29,144 --> 00:19:30,224
Speaker 1: It's like, but I think they've had a lot of

453
00:19:30,224 --> 00:19:33,824
Speaker 1: similar shad Taylorsift can compare herself to Elizabeth Taylor and

454
00:19:33,864 --> 00:19:36,424
Speaker 1: that's not discrediting Elizae Taylor's legacy. But no, she was

455
00:19:36,424 --> 00:19:38,784
Speaker 1: a worldwide superstar and if you don't agree that, Taylor

456
00:19:38,784 --> 00:19:41,024
Speaker 1: Swift is also a worldwide superstar, so I feel like

457
00:19:41,064 --> 00:19:43,024
Speaker 1: that's okay. And I think the line like be my

458
00:19:43,184 --> 00:19:45,424
Speaker 1: n y when Hollywood hates me, that is like what

459
00:19:45,504 --> 00:19:47,104
Speaker 1: makes it so tailor swift to me because she has

460
00:19:47,144 --> 00:19:50,224
Speaker 1: famously escaped to her New York penthouse when the world

461
00:19:50,224 --> 00:19:51,264
Speaker 1: has hated her, and like.

462
00:19:51,224 --> 00:19:53,784
Speaker 3: I think that's really cool, and constantly uses New York

463
00:19:54,064 --> 00:19:56,064
Speaker 3: as a symbol for the right man.

464
00:19:56,304 --> 00:19:58,864
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and speaking of the right man, we'll have

465
00:19:58,864 --> 00:20:01,264
Speaker 1: to talk briefly. That would because that's another song that

466
00:20:01,344 --> 00:20:03,744
Speaker 1: a lot of the critics got a bit touchy about,

467
00:20:03,864 --> 00:20:06,864
Speaker 1: saying that it was superstition. It was too Yeah, I know,

468
00:20:06,904 --> 00:20:09,624
Speaker 1: it's that supersition of black cats and nothing else, but

469
00:20:09,984 --> 00:20:11,944
Speaker 1: that was also something that critics were saying was a

470
00:20:11,944 --> 00:20:15,744
Speaker 1: bit cheap and just wasn't up to her usual lyrical standards.

471
00:20:16,224 --> 00:20:19,264
Speaker 1: I think the thing with that, first of all, not

472
00:20:19,304 --> 00:20:20,584
Speaker 1: happy about that looked.

473
00:20:21,144 --> 00:20:23,384
Speaker 2: When I first heard it, I was cackling because I

474
00:20:23,424 --> 00:20:26,064
Speaker 2: was like, why am I hearing about Travis Kelsey's penis?

475
00:20:26,224 --> 00:20:28,984
Speaker 2: It'd also be Jackson five. But then I thought why not?

476
00:20:29,144 --> 00:20:30,944
Speaker 2: Because I have a great time listening to that song,

477
00:20:31,144 --> 00:20:33,744
Speaker 2: and also the first lines of that song are Daisy's

478
00:20:33,784 --> 00:20:35,984
Speaker 2: bare naked. I was distraught, he loves me not? He

479
00:20:36,024 --> 00:20:38,104
Speaker 2: loves me not? What a great way to talk about

480
00:20:38,144 --> 00:20:40,464
Speaker 2: picking flowers off a daisy and saying whether he loves.

481
00:20:40,264 --> 00:20:42,944
Speaker 1: Me or not. So lyricism is not dead is here

482
00:20:42,944 --> 00:20:45,744
Speaker 1: to save us with poetry about penises. Actually, I think

483
00:20:45,784 --> 00:20:46,784
Speaker 1: it's a really fun song.

484
00:20:46,864 --> 00:20:49,264
Speaker 2: And she's spent years with Sabrina and her friend who's

485
00:20:49,304 --> 00:20:52,064
Speaker 2: writing all of these fun, catchy, silly songs about like

486
00:20:52,144 --> 00:20:52,824
Speaker 2: having sex.

487
00:20:53,624 --> 00:20:56,504
Speaker 1: Is it a bit cringe? Sure? But I still had fun?

488
00:20:56,664 --> 00:20:58,624
Speaker 1: Or do you think she that was modeled off Sabrina,

489
00:20:58,664 --> 00:21:00,184
Speaker 1: which again is what people are saying.

490
00:20:59,984 --> 00:21:02,464
Speaker 2: Not necessarily modeled, because I don't think that she needs that.

491
00:21:02,504 --> 00:21:04,824
Speaker 2: But I think she's like, I'm in my mid thirties.

492
00:21:04,864 --> 00:21:07,024
Speaker 2: I can write about having good sex if I want to.

493
00:21:07,064 --> 00:21:09,144
Speaker 2: She did it with Guilty as Sin on Tortured Poets,

494
00:21:09,144 --> 00:21:11,624
Speaker 2: and I think now that she's doing a fun, poppy album,

495
00:21:11,664 --> 00:21:13,304
Speaker 2: she was like, actually, what don't I have a bit

496
00:21:13,304 --> 00:21:13,744
Speaker 2: of fun with it?

497
00:21:13,824 --> 00:21:15,664
Speaker 1: Like every other pop girl that there is.

498
00:21:15,824 --> 00:21:19,104
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, And if she wants to go from I

499
00:21:19,104 --> 00:21:22,184
Speaker 3: don't know the smallest man who ever lived to Travis

500
00:21:22,224 --> 00:21:23,984
Speaker 3: and he's Redwood and sing about it.

501
00:21:24,584 --> 00:21:25,704
Speaker 4: Oh wait to stop her.

502
00:21:26,064 --> 00:21:28,504
Speaker 2: You know what I do love is that there was

503
00:21:28,584 --> 00:21:31,264
Speaker 2: an Ariana Grande fan who tweeted a really long time

504
00:21:31,304 --> 00:21:33,584
Speaker 2: ago about Taylor Swift and they were like, I guarantee

505
00:21:33,624 --> 00:21:35,064
Speaker 2: you and Taylor Swift writ's about sex.

506
00:21:35,144 --> 00:21:39,744
Speaker 1: She's gonna be like his Redwood sap for ok Forest.

507
00:21:39,904 --> 00:21:42,264
Speaker 2: And I actually think the Redwood line in Wood is

508
00:21:42,304 --> 00:21:45,264
Speaker 2: her acknowledging because she has proven with this album. She

509
00:21:45,344 --> 00:21:47,184
Speaker 2: might pretend she's not online, she has proven with this

510
00:21:47,224 --> 00:21:49,784
Speaker 2: album that she's very chronically online and sees everything we

511
00:21:49,824 --> 00:21:50,504
Speaker 2: all say.

512
00:21:50,464 --> 00:21:52,744
Speaker 1: Which I think we always want, which we well.

513
00:21:52,544 --> 00:21:54,624
Speaker 2: Yeah, but she's referenced and she's referenced a lot in

514
00:21:54,664 --> 00:21:56,304
Speaker 2: other lyrics. So I do actually thin because people on

515
00:21:56,304 --> 00:21:58,264
Speaker 2: Twitter went, oh my god, she actually did how embarrassing.

516
00:21:58,304 --> 00:22:01,464
Speaker 1: No, No, she's in on the joke and she's she's.

517
00:22:01,024 --> 00:22:02,984
Speaker 2: Just making fun of herself that you would think that

518
00:22:02,984 --> 00:22:04,624
Speaker 2: that's what she'd say, So she's gonna say it and

519
00:22:04,704 --> 00:22:06,184
Speaker 2: it's funny and it's so funny.

520
00:22:06,264 --> 00:22:06,504
Speaker 4: Yeah.

521
00:22:06,544 --> 00:22:08,384
Speaker 1: I do actually really enjoy that. So well, this is

522
00:22:08,424 --> 00:22:10,144
Speaker 1: the woman that used to like track her fans so

523
00:22:10,184 --> 00:22:12,664
Speaker 1: she knew he would invite to events and things. It's

524
00:22:12,704 --> 00:22:15,144
Speaker 1: quite nice that she's so in the weeds of what

525
00:22:15,184 --> 00:22:18,104
Speaker 1: her fans are saying and not just concentrating on what

526
00:22:18,184 --> 00:22:20,184
Speaker 1: critics are saying. What are people who are giving awards

527
00:22:20,184 --> 00:22:24,544
Speaker 1: are doing. Moving on to one of the other songs

528
00:22:24,584 --> 00:22:28,344
Speaker 1: that has really fired up a lot of conversation, Actually Romantic.

529
00:22:28,504 --> 00:22:30,224
Speaker 1: So there was that moment on New Heights where she

530
00:22:30,224 --> 00:22:32,944
Speaker 1: said actually romantic and Jason Kelsey was like, I know what,

531
00:22:32,944 --> 00:22:35,384
Speaker 1: that's a belt. But I think we now know it's

532
00:22:35,384 --> 00:22:37,984
Speaker 1: not about Travis Kelsey. It's about who do we think

533
00:22:37,984 --> 00:22:38,344
Speaker 1: it's about.

534
00:22:38,544 --> 00:22:40,464
Speaker 4: It's not about Travis, It's about Charlie.

535
00:22:40,464 --> 00:22:41,344
Speaker 1: It's about Charlie X.

536
00:22:42,904 --> 00:22:43,224
Speaker 3: All right.

537
00:22:43,304 --> 00:22:45,784
Speaker 1: And you're explaining to people who are not across the discourse,

538
00:22:45,784 --> 00:22:47,904
Speaker 1: which might be a lot of people. I mean, you know,

539
00:22:48,024 --> 00:22:49,384
Speaker 1: we live and breathe this well, but I think a

540
00:22:49,424 --> 00:22:51,464
Speaker 1: lot of people are just like, what's happening between her?

541
00:22:51,544 --> 00:22:53,864
Speaker 2: I will say at the top of this, I am

542
00:22:53,864 --> 00:22:56,304
Speaker 2: a fan of Charlie. I'm a fan of I think

543
00:22:56,304 --> 00:22:59,584
Speaker 2: we all are. I really loved the song Sympathy is

544
00:22:59,584 --> 00:23:01,384
Speaker 2: a nice If you don't know, it's a song that

545
00:23:01,464 --> 00:23:03,624
Speaker 2: Charlie releases part of her album bra It is a

546
00:23:03,664 --> 00:23:06,704
Speaker 2: song where she speaks about another woman being in her

547
00:23:06,744 --> 00:23:10,704
Speaker 2: space because they're dating two friends, and she speaks about

548
00:23:10,744 --> 00:23:12,864
Speaker 2: how she wants all this sympathy, but she's also getting

549
00:23:12,864 --> 00:23:15,024
Speaker 2: all this sympathy because she can't compete with this woman.

550
00:23:15,104 --> 00:23:15,864
Speaker 1: This woman is.

551
00:23:16,024 --> 00:23:17,864
Speaker 2: She says like, I'm opposite, I'm on the other side,

552
00:23:17,904 --> 00:23:21,064
Speaker 2: that this girl is like everything that she's not, and

553
00:23:21,104 --> 00:23:24,504
Speaker 2: that she feels inferior to her and that she feels inadequate.

554
00:23:24,704 --> 00:23:26,664
Speaker 2: And when charlie'spoken about the song, she's been like, it's

555
00:23:26,744 --> 00:23:28,824
Speaker 2: very much a narrative of like the stories I tell myself,

556
00:23:28,864 --> 00:23:30,784
Speaker 2: the self doubt that I have, the way that I

557
00:23:30,824 --> 00:23:32,624
Speaker 2: feel when I see this person, and how bad they

558
00:23:32,664 --> 00:23:35,184
Speaker 2: make me feel about myself, And the undercurrent of the

559
00:23:35,224 --> 00:23:36,904
Speaker 2: song is I hope she breaks up with him because

560
00:23:36,904 --> 00:23:38,064
Speaker 2: I don't want to have to hang out with her.

561
00:23:38,104 --> 00:23:39,504
Speaker 2: I don't want to share the space with her because

562
00:23:39,544 --> 00:23:42,424
Speaker 2: she makes me feel like shit just by simply existing.

563
00:23:42,984 --> 00:23:45,864
Speaker 2: That song is very widely believed to be and it

564
00:23:45,984 --> 00:23:48,544
Speaker 2: is about Taylor Swift. When Taylor was dating Maddie Healy

565
00:23:48,824 --> 00:23:50,864
Speaker 2: and Charlie XX was dating George Daniel, both of the

566
00:23:50,904 --> 00:23:54,104
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy five Charlie and GEORGEA now married, it was

567
00:23:54,144 --> 00:23:56,984
Speaker 2: like a long time kind of coming that Taylor and

568
00:23:57,024 --> 00:24:00,784
Speaker 2: Maddie would date publicly, long term, ten year situationship For

569
00:24:00,784 --> 00:24:03,624
Speaker 2: anyone who doesn't know he's the muse of Tortured Poets Department.

570
00:24:04,064 --> 00:24:07,584
Speaker 2: But when they broke up after that, some things started

571
00:24:07,584 --> 00:24:11,024
Speaker 2: to happen that maybe made it clear that I.

572
00:24:11,024 --> 00:24:13,504
Speaker 1: Don't know, maybe there wasn't friendship so much between Charlie

573
00:24:13,544 --> 00:24:13,944
Speaker 1: and Taylor.

574
00:24:14,144 --> 00:24:17,704
Speaker 2: Then Charlie releases Sympathy as and I've seemingly things are

575
00:24:17,744 --> 00:24:21,144
Speaker 2: fine because Taylor's dancing to Charlie's album at the Grammys

576
00:24:21,264 --> 00:24:23,744
Speaker 2: with Margaret Qually. They're having a great time.

577
00:24:23,864 --> 00:24:25,904
Speaker 1: And we all just think, like, you know what, it's

578
00:24:25,944 --> 00:24:27,104
Speaker 1: over and done, and it's not.

579
00:24:27,664 --> 00:24:28,504
Speaker 4: No, no, it's not.

580
00:24:28,544 --> 00:24:30,664
Speaker 2: Because now we have the song actually Romantic. Do you

581
00:24:30,704 --> 00:24:33,064
Speaker 2: want to go into what the vibe of actually Romantic is?

582
00:24:33,624 --> 00:24:36,024
Speaker 3: I mean, I think what's really interesting here is seeing

583
00:24:36,024 --> 00:24:38,704
Speaker 3: all this discourse about it and seeing people jump up

584
00:24:38,744 --> 00:24:41,584
Speaker 3: and down and really feel the need to stand up

585
00:24:41,584 --> 00:24:42,344
Speaker 3: for Charlie and.

586
00:24:42,264 --> 00:24:45,064
Speaker 4: Like she's like, like she needs help.

587
00:24:45,224 --> 00:24:48,384
Speaker 3: I mean, I think if anyone is not going to

588
00:24:48,424 --> 00:24:51,744
Speaker 3: be bothered too much by this and also can stand

589
00:24:51,824 --> 00:24:55,184
Speaker 3: up for herself, it's Charlie. I find that really strange.

590
00:24:55,544 --> 00:24:58,344
Speaker 3: I also find it really strange that people are taking

591
00:24:58,984 --> 00:25:03,944
Speaker 3: Taylor's song and thinking that the only reference point is

592
00:25:04,064 --> 00:25:05,104
Speaker 3: Charlie's song.

593
00:25:05,184 --> 00:25:06,744
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's absolutely it's.

594
00:25:06,584 --> 00:25:09,144
Speaker 3: Not absolutely not And they're saying, oh, Charlie wrote this

595
00:25:09,264 --> 00:25:13,544
Speaker 3: quite whist full song about family, beautiful song it is,

596
00:25:13,664 --> 00:25:17,424
Speaker 3: and saying, you know, I'm so overwhelmed by your success

597
00:25:17,504 --> 00:25:20,784
Speaker 3: that it makes me feel bad about myself and that's

598
00:25:20,824 --> 00:25:21,904
Speaker 3: quite a nice thing to say.

599
00:25:21,944 --> 00:25:25,584
Speaker 1: Really. Yeah, but it's not a standalone. It's not a.

600
00:25:25,544 --> 00:25:30,544
Speaker 3: Standalone and these people have private lives, and people gossip,

601
00:25:30,584 --> 00:25:34,224
Speaker 3: and the industry is small, and so little bits of

602
00:25:34,264 --> 00:25:37,504
Speaker 3: information have filtered back to Taylor, which is which is

603
00:25:37,824 --> 00:25:41,384
Speaker 3: from the lyrics liked you called me boring Barbie. That's

604
00:25:41,424 --> 00:25:43,744
Speaker 3: not on the song, so she's heard that elsewhere.

605
00:25:43,904 --> 00:25:46,624
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there is a tweet circulating there is that

606
00:25:46,704 --> 00:25:50,144
Speaker 2: shows Maddie Heay in like June of twenty twenty three

607
00:25:50,184 --> 00:25:52,584
Speaker 2: talking about going to dinner with Charlie, and Charlie also

608
00:25:52,624 --> 00:25:54,744
Speaker 2: talked about it. They both posted into the stories and

609
00:25:54,784 --> 00:25:56,864
Speaker 2: on his to do list discussion for the evening is

610
00:25:56,904 --> 00:25:59,824
Speaker 2: to talk about his breakup with Margot Robbie famously didn't

611
00:25:59,864 --> 00:26:01,944
Speaker 2: date Margot Robbie, but who else would be a Barbie

612
00:26:02,104 --> 00:26:04,344
Speaker 2: at that summer of Barbie and Erra's tour where Taylor

613
00:26:04,424 --> 00:26:07,704
Speaker 2: Swift and so if she's hearing that like as well,

614
00:26:07,744 --> 00:26:11,344
Speaker 2: sorry contact spillers. Taylor did bring Chars onto the nineteen

615
00:26:11,384 --> 00:26:14,944
Speaker 2: eighty nine and reputation tours. They have professionally worked together,

616
00:26:15,064 --> 00:26:18,304
Speaker 2: They've been friendly in the industry, seemingly been friends.

617
00:26:18,304 --> 00:26:20,864
Speaker 3: I assume Taylor and has given her that platform, and I.

618
00:26:20,824 --> 00:26:22,824
Speaker 2: Assume that they hung out when they were dating band members.

619
00:26:22,864 --> 00:26:24,864
Speaker 2: Otherwise we're with the song have come from. So in

620
00:26:24,944 --> 00:26:28,184
Speaker 2: Taylor's perception, probably like, oh, okay, we were friendly, they've

621
00:26:28,184 --> 00:26:28,824
Speaker 2: broken up.

622
00:26:29,224 --> 00:26:30,384
Speaker 1: She hears all this gossip.

623
00:26:30,464 --> 00:26:33,784
Speaker 2: Then Charlie releases a public song that's very seemingly like

624
00:26:33,904 --> 00:26:34,904
Speaker 2: nice about her.

625
00:26:34,784 --> 00:26:36,384
Speaker 1: But is still out of the blue.

626
00:26:36,944 --> 00:26:39,424
Speaker 2: I can understand why for Taylor that has all read

627
00:26:39,424 --> 00:26:41,224
Speaker 2: and there's all this personal stuff we don't know about.

628
00:26:41,264 --> 00:26:43,064
Speaker 2: I'm very interested in who the leak is because they

629
00:26:43,064 --> 00:26:46,784
Speaker 2: cross circles a lot. Yeah, like Gracie Abrams, Margaret Cowley,

630
00:26:46,824 --> 00:26:49,584
Speaker 2: Sabrina Carpenter, Jack Antonoff. There are so many people in

631
00:26:49,664 --> 00:26:52,144
Speaker 2: Taylor's circle who are crossing parths.

632
00:26:51,824 --> 00:26:52,944
Speaker 1: With charlie circle as well.

633
00:26:53,184 --> 00:26:55,144
Speaker 2: But I do think it's a little bit strange that

634
00:26:55,184 --> 00:26:57,624
Speaker 2: people are like, oh, poor Charlie she did nothing wrong.

635
00:26:57,664 --> 00:27:00,224
Speaker 2: She just released this nice song, and Taylor's bullying her, Like,

636
00:27:00,224 --> 00:27:01,224
Speaker 2: I think there's more at play here.

637
00:27:01,264 --> 00:27:03,944
Speaker 1: I also think we don't care when rappers beef. We

638
00:27:03,984 --> 00:27:04,744
Speaker 1: have a great time.

639
00:27:05,024 --> 00:27:07,464
Speaker 2: We don't care when other artists beef for some reason.

640
00:27:07,504 --> 00:27:10,184
Speaker 2: It's like this narrative of these two songs, which once

641
00:27:10,864 --> 00:27:13,864
Speaker 2: you make me so insecure about myself Taylor's song is

642
00:27:14,224 --> 00:27:16,144
Speaker 2: that's funny. I never think of you at all. Yeah,

643
00:27:16,184 --> 00:27:18,144
Speaker 2: it's very cutting and very silly and petty, but it

644
00:27:18,184 --> 00:27:21,384
Speaker 2: is that's the vibe. These songs are not actually being

645
00:27:21,424 --> 00:27:24,064
Speaker 2: really vicious about each other. They're just being two pop

646
00:27:24,104 --> 00:27:26,424
Speaker 2: girls singing songs. Yeah, and on the vicious thing.

647
00:27:26,504 --> 00:27:27,984
Speaker 1: It's kind of interesting because I saw a lot of

648
00:27:27,984 --> 00:27:30,744
Speaker 1: criticism of people saying that she should be above this.

649
00:27:30,824 --> 00:27:33,424
Speaker 1: Now she's clearly the more powerful one, she's the richer one,

650
00:27:33,424 --> 00:27:36,024
Speaker 1: she's the more successful one than anyone, and so it's

651
00:27:36,064 --> 00:27:39,064
Speaker 1: embarrassing for her to be bringing up all of these

652
00:27:39,184 --> 00:27:42,624
Speaker 1: like smaller like grievances and things that she has. But

653
00:27:42,624 --> 00:27:44,624
Speaker 1: I actually think that's super honest because I think we

654
00:27:44,664 --> 00:27:46,464
Speaker 1: would all know, like not that any of us would

655
00:27:46,504 --> 00:27:48,584
Speaker 1: know what it's like to be Taylor Swift, But I

656
00:27:48,584 --> 00:27:50,864
Speaker 1: think you would know that, like, no matter how successful

657
00:27:50,904 --> 00:27:53,824
Speaker 1: you are and how loved you are, those little kind

658
00:27:53,904 --> 00:27:56,824
Speaker 1: of whether they're imagined or real, like slights from someone

659
00:27:56,904 --> 00:27:58,784
Speaker 1: or something it was a friend or a professional person,

660
00:27:58,864 --> 00:28:01,304
Speaker 1: Like they're the things that keep you up at night. Yeah,

661
00:28:01,304 --> 00:28:03,224
Speaker 1: They're the things that like pull in your chair. I've

662
00:28:03,264 --> 00:28:05,864
Speaker 1: had days where like our podcast is going crazy and

663
00:28:05,904 --> 00:28:08,144
Speaker 1: artic crime writing is going viral, and like I'm getting

664
00:28:08,144 --> 00:28:10,264
Speaker 1: all this love across social and all this love at work,

665
00:28:10,384 --> 00:28:12,104
Speaker 1: and then I'll be thinking of something that like a

666
00:28:12,184 --> 00:28:14,504
Speaker 1: former colleague said to someone else that I know they said,

667
00:28:14,544 --> 00:28:16,984
Speaker 1: and like that, and that just eats away at you. Yeah,

668
00:28:16,984 --> 00:28:18,584
Speaker 1: and it eats away at all the good too.

669
00:28:18,664 --> 00:28:18,864
Speaker 3: Yeah.

670
00:28:18,904 --> 00:28:21,024
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I feel like that it's weird of us

671
00:28:21,064 --> 00:28:23,544
Speaker 1: to think that Taylor Swift would be above that when

672
00:28:23,584 --> 00:28:25,504
Speaker 1: she is just a human. And also if she doesn't

673
00:28:25,504 --> 00:28:27,864
Speaker 1: write about that, then people are saying she's too unrelatable

674
00:28:28,104 --> 00:28:30,064
Speaker 1: if she only writes about being a billionaire, So now

675
00:28:30,064 --> 00:28:32,864
Speaker 1: she's writing about the most human thing you can experience,

676
00:28:33,464 --> 00:28:35,624
Speaker 1: and then we don't like that either. And just let

677
00:28:35,624 --> 00:28:37,064
Speaker 1: the girl have a even if it's a petty beef.

678
00:28:37,144 --> 00:28:38,304
Speaker 4: Just let her have it exactly.

679
00:28:38,344 --> 00:28:41,184
Speaker 3: And I think that that is really what was going

680
00:28:41,224 --> 00:28:43,864
Speaker 3: on behind the Girls tour. You know, she had that

681
00:28:43,984 --> 00:28:47,344
Speaker 3: breakup with Maddie during the Eras tour, So what she

682
00:28:47,504 --> 00:28:49,904
Speaker 3: was talking about, what she was texting her friends about

683
00:28:49,904 --> 00:28:52,264
Speaker 3: and having conversations with And you know, she had friends

684
00:28:52,264 --> 00:28:55,504
Speaker 3: like Sabrina opening for her, you know, and Gracie and

685
00:28:55,544 --> 00:28:58,944
Speaker 3: the heim sisters. They're her real friends. So when she's

686
00:28:58,984 --> 00:29:02,264
Speaker 3: sitting backstage in her dressing room with her friends talking,

687
00:29:02,664 --> 00:29:04,624
Speaker 3: this is the stuff they would have been talking about exactly.

688
00:29:04,704 --> 00:29:07,144
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it's like I guess for me,

689
00:29:07,264 --> 00:29:09,264
Speaker 2: I was a little bit like, oh no, Like I

690
00:29:09,944 --> 00:29:11,824
Speaker 2: think any Taylor Swift and knows what it was like

691
00:29:11,864 --> 00:29:14,864
Speaker 2: when we were in that reputation era and people just

692
00:29:15,144 --> 00:29:17,224
Speaker 2: hated Taylor and felt the need to tell you that

693
00:29:17,304 --> 00:29:17,984
Speaker 2: every five seconds.

694
00:29:18,104 --> 00:29:20,024
Speaker 1: I just hated an artist and felt the need to

695
00:29:20,024 --> 00:29:22,744
Speaker 1: point it out. But that was how people behaved.

696
00:29:22,784 --> 00:29:24,064
Speaker 2: And I just like, as soon as she did this,

697
00:29:24,104 --> 00:29:25,744
Speaker 2: and I saw it start to pick up online, like

698
00:29:25,744 --> 00:29:27,984
Speaker 2: you said, where they're like, how dare she like actually

699
00:29:28,024 --> 00:29:29,584
Speaker 2: speak out about this? She should have done this, I

700
00:29:29,624 --> 00:29:31,264
Speaker 2: was like, oh, she should have turned on my own

701
00:29:31,344 --> 00:29:33,224
Speaker 2: because she was looking pretty good at the Grammys when

702
00:29:33,264 --> 00:29:35,304
Speaker 2: she was dancing to Charlie and not taking the bait.

703
00:29:35,664 --> 00:29:37,864
Speaker 2: But I do think it's very human and it is

704
00:29:37,984 --> 00:29:42,184
Speaker 2: very Taylor swift to go and another thing like to go.

705
00:29:42,304 --> 00:29:45,104
Speaker 2: You know what, I'm not gonna just let the public

706
00:29:45,104 --> 00:29:47,024
Speaker 2: perception be that all this girl did was write a

707
00:29:47,104 --> 00:29:48,944
Speaker 2: nice song about me, because in Taylor's mind, that's not

708
00:29:48,984 --> 00:29:51,264
Speaker 2: what happened, and she doesn't want that to be the thing.

709
00:29:51,584 --> 00:29:54,144
Speaker 2: And all I'll say is Charlie XCX herself tweeted that

710
00:29:54,184 --> 00:29:56,624
Speaker 2: she hates boring pop stars, and she said she loves

711
00:29:56,664 --> 00:29:59,424
Speaker 2: mess and everyone needs to take things a bit less seriously,

712
00:29:59,504 --> 00:30:03,024
Speaker 2: because she said in exclamation points, nothing matters. This was

713
00:30:03,024 --> 00:30:05,584
Speaker 2: obviously before the song, but that was her own thing.

714
00:30:05,784 --> 00:30:07,944
Speaker 4: Does this really matter? I don't think it does.

715
00:30:08,144 --> 00:30:12,664
Speaker 3: Like I will have playlists this summer where Brat and

716
00:30:12,984 --> 00:30:14,904
Speaker 3: The Life of a Show GOL sit on the same

717
00:30:14,944 --> 00:30:16,584
Speaker 3: playlist and I can enjoy both.

718
00:30:16,624 --> 00:30:19,024
Speaker 2: And I think, I guess what I think if you

719
00:30:19,024 --> 00:30:21,384
Speaker 2: ever move like the way this was dominating my feed

720
00:30:21,424 --> 00:30:24,944
Speaker 2: this weekend was I genuinely was like, Oh, you guys

721
00:30:24,944 --> 00:30:26,744
Speaker 2: have done something evil to each other.

722
00:30:26,784 --> 00:30:29,424
Speaker 1: You would think like if you take all of it away.

723
00:30:29,624 --> 00:30:31,664
Speaker 1: It's a funny song. You don't have to like it.

724
00:30:31,664 --> 00:30:33,744
Speaker 1: You can think it's a cringe song, but it's funny

725
00:30:33,784 --> 00:30:34,584
Speaker 1: as well, to be.

726
00:30:34,624 --> 00:30:37,784
Speaker 2: Like, you're like a tiny chihuahua bar Yeah, and I

727
00:30:37,824 --> 00:30:39,304
Speaker 2: don't think about you ever and I hate you, but

728
00:30:39,304 --> 00:30:41,184
Speaker 2: also I've written a whole song about you that's funny.

729
00:30:41,264 --> 00:30:43,064
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was such a specific callback to the

730
00:30:43,104 --> 00:30:47,824
Speaker 1: early two thousands. Yeah, we loved that. She's just so malonnial,

731
00:30:47,904 --> 00:30:50,864
Speaker 1: like really honestly, it is just like so Houswive, so

732
00:30:50,944 --> 00:30:55,304
Speaker 1: Paris and Nicole Coder so like vintage silly banger. I

733
00:30:55,504 --> 00:30:55,784
Speaker 1: like it.

734
00:30:55,864 --> 00:30:58,224
Speaker 4: Same bottom line is the low road can be funny.

735
00:30:58,304 --> 00:31:00,144
Speaker 1: The low road can be funny. And which is going

736
00:31:00,184 --> 00:31:02,024
Speaker 1: to get the segue in us into the other song

737
00:31:02,064 --> 00:31:05,344
Speaker 1: that is making a lot of different headlines, which is Canceled,

738
00:31:05,384 --> 00:31:07,824
Speaker 1: BREDI you want to take us through the context of cancer, Okay.

739
00:31:08,784 --> 00:31:11,984
Speaker 3: Canceled is interesting, and I think people were questioning whether

740
00:31:12,024 --> 00:31:15,024
Speaker 3: there would be a song on this album that referenced

741
00:31:15,424 --> 00:31:19,664
Speaker 3: her famous friendships and ones that people have speculated in

742
00:31:19,744 --> 00:31:23,184
Speaker 3: recent times may not be going so well. Names that

743
00:31:23,264 --> 00:31:27,504
Speaker 3: came up were obviously Blake Lively is the main name

744
00:31:27,584 --> 00:31:30,504
Speaker 3: that has come up. You know, there's been her friendship

745
00:31:30,544 --> 00:31:33,744
Speaker 3: with Brittany Mahomes as well. We definitely get a reference

746
00:31:33,744 --> 00:31:35,704
Speaker 3: to Sophie Turner in this song, which I think is

747
00:31:35,744 --> 00:31:39,984
Speaker 3: really fun and I'm so here for it. But Canceled

748
00:31:40,424 --> 00:31:45,504
Speaker 3: ultimately is Taylor talking about her friends that have been

749
00:31:45,744 --> 00:31:48,664
Speaker 3: canceled for whatever reason in the media. It's something that

750
00:31:48,824 --> 00:31:51,504
Speaker 3: Taylor is an expert in being canceled. She's done the

751
00:31:51,624 --> 00:31:54,144
Speaker 3: whole album about it, She's talked about it a lot,

752
00:31:54,224 --> 00:31:57,264
Speaker 3: and so because of that, she's kind of become the

753
00:31:58,024 --> 00:32:01,984
Speaker 3: hairtaker amongst her friends, but also amongst industry people you

754
00:32:02,024 --> 00:32:03,784
Speaker 3: know that reach out to her when it happens to

755
00:32:03,824 --> 00:32:06,064
Speaker 3: them to say, well, how did you weather this storm?

756
00:32:06,184 --> 00:32:10,264
Speaker 3: How did you survive it? And because she's been through it,

757
00:32:10,824 --> 00:32:13,624
Speaker 3: and this is what this song is about, she's not

758
00:32:13,704 --> 00:32:16,344
Speaker 3: quick to judge people, and she knows that you do

759
00:32:16,464 --> 00:32:18,024
Speaker 3: actually come out the other side.

760
00:32:18,304 --> 00:32:18,744
Speaker 1: Okay.

761
00:32:19,064 --> 00:32:19,344
Speaker 4: Yeah.

762
00:32:19,384 --> 00:32:22,344
Speaker 2: Generally, I think what's interesting is people this is probably

763
00:32:22,344 --> 00:32:24,304
Speaker 2: what you're referencing. People have been calling the song tone

764
00:32:24,344 --> 00:32:27,224
Speaker 2: deaf because they're like, why is she thinking about being canceled?

765
00:32:27,224 --> 00:32:29,304
Speaker 2: Like cancelations like really serious? And there's people who have

766
00:32:29,344 --> 00:32:32,664
Speaker 2: done awful things. The people she's referencing, like Sophie Turner,

767
00:32:33,024 --> 00:32:35,824
Speaker 2: Blake Lively, and like a little bit Selena Gomez as well,

768
00:32:35,984 --> 00:32:38,704
Speaker 2: is like what they're being canceled for. I mean, I

769
00:32:38,704 --> 00:32:40,904
Speaker 2: don't know how the Spillers feel about Blake Lively, but

770
00:32:40,944 --> 00:32:44,424
Speaker 2: like what they're being what they're feeling canceled for in

771
00:32:44,464 --> 00:32:47,384
Speaker 2: the case of Sophie Turner, etcetera, is not they didn't

772
00:32:47,384 --> 00:32:48,864
Speaker 2: commit a fence.

773
00:32:48,904 --> 00:32:50,824
Speaker 1: The way that we're talking to Sophie Turner Lyeric we're

774
00:32:50,824 --> 00:32:52,344
Speaker 1: talking about is like did they catch you having too

775
00:32:52,424 --> 00:32:54,744
Speaker 1: much fun? Which is the accusation against Sophie at the

776
00:32:54,744 --> 00:32:56,064
Speaker 1: time that she was she was a.

777
00:32:55,984 --> 00:33:00,784
Speaker 3: Part and out having dinner with Taylor out of the city.

778
00:33:00,864 --> 00:33:02,624
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was like, you know, she's divorcing from

779
00:33:02,664 --> 00:33:04,944
Speaker 2: drog And the reason that I made that connection was

780
00:33:04,984 --> 00:33:07,424
Speaker 2: that she does in the introduction to the song say

781
00:33:07,464 --> 00:33:09,984
Speaker 2: that like, because this is her experience and her history,

782
00:33:09,984 --> 00:33:12,264
Speaker 2: she now known as the person other women in Hollywood

783
00:33:12,304 --> 00:33:14,504
Speaker 2: call when they feel like they've been canceled, And like

784
00:33:14,584 --> 00:33:17,464
Speaker 2: Sophie and Taylor were friendlee while she was married to

785
00:33:17,544 --> 00:33:20,264
Speaker 2: Joe Jonas, but like it sounds very much like she

786
00:33:20,344 --> 00:33:22,264
Speaker 2: called Taylor up and went, this is what's happening.

787
00:33:22,304 --> 00:33:22,864
Speaker 1: I need a place.

788
00:33:22,944 --> 00:33:24,784
Speaker 2: Taylor gave her her place in New York City this day.

789
00:33:24,864 --> 00:33:26,344
Speaker 2: She took her out to dinner. She made sure that

790
00:33:26,384 --> 00:33:28,584
Speaker 2: paparazzi saw them, that people knew she was aligned with

791
00:33:28,624 --> 00:33:30,944
Speaker 2: her and throwing her support behind her, because she knows

792
00:33:30,984 --> 00:33:32,624
Speaker 2: what it feels like when you get those headlines that

793
00:33:32,664 --> 00:33:34,504
Speaker 2: are like she's a party girl, she's the worst. She

794
00:33:34,584 --> 00:33:37,824
Speaker 2: left Joe high and dry, so like there is that connection.

795
00:33:37,544 --> 00:33:40,104
Speaker 3: And how isolating it is, which I think you know,

796
00:33:40,144 --> 00:33:41,824
Speaker 3: Taylor has talked about a lot, and that was her

797
00:33:41,864 --> 00:33:44,504
Speaker 3: experience with reputation and that she felt like she had

798
00:33:44,544 --> 00:33:47,464
Speaker 3: to hide. So the wisdom that she's imparting to her

799
00:33:47,504 --> 00:33:50,904
Speaker 3: friends is don't hide because it didn't serve her well.

800
00:33:51,104 --> 00:33:53,504
Speaker 2: The Easter eggs I found interesting for Blake is that

801
00:33:53,544 --> 00:33:56,224
Speaker 2: like none of us noticed that the jewelry Taylor is

802
00:33:56,264 --> 00:33:58,104
Speaker 2: wearing some of the Life of a Show golf photo

803
00:33:58,104 --> 00:33:59,424
Speaker 2: shoots is Blake's stewelry.

804
00:33:59,864 --> 00:34:02,144
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is huge, And that's been the story. I mean,

805
00:34:02,184 --> 00:34:04,464
Speaker 1: we've talked about heapshlon and still that it looked to

806
00:34:04,504 --> 00:34:06,784
Speaker 1: the naked eye, to the outsiders that their friendship is

807
00:34:06,784 --> 00:34:09,624
Speaker 1: completely over and that's probably the biggest sign we've had

808
00:34:09,624 --> 00:34:09,944
Speaker 1: that that is.

809
00:34:09,944 --> 00:34:12,384
Speaker 2: Actually and I think it's interesting because this album was

810
00:34:12,464 --> 00:34:16,544
Speaker 2: recorded last year, before things with the lawsuit had really escalated.

811
00:34:16,584 --> 00:34:18,624
Speaker 2: But I also think if she didn't feel that way currently,

812
00:34:19,064 --> 00:34:21,744
Speaker 2: she wouldn't have a song, or she wouldn't be wearing

813
00:34:21,744 --> 00:34:23,424
Speaker 2: the jewelry and the photo shoots because the photo shoots

814
00:34:23,424 --> 00:34:25,824
Speaker 2: were not last year, you know. And so she's wearing

815
00:34:25,904 --> 00:34:27,984
Speaker 2: a bracelet that Blake wa to the It Ends with

816
00:34:28,064 --> 00:34:30,104
Speaker 2: Us premiere in one of the pictures, which is the

817
00:34:30,104 --> 00:34:31,264
Speaker 2: picture on Spotify when you.

818
00:34:31,264 --> 00:34:32,144
Speaker 1: Press play on the song.

819
00:34:32,184 --> 00:34:34,224
Speaker 2: It was like a custom piece, a customer piece for

820
00:34:34,224 --> 00:34:36,784
Speaker 2: the It Ends with Us premiere. She's wearing the Gucci

821
00:34:36,864 --> 00:34:39,904
Speaker 2: earrings that Blake water one of the met galas, so

822
00:34:40,064 --> 00:34:40,984
Speaker 2: like Gucci.

823
00:34:40,744 --> 00:34:42,224
Speaker 4: Is also referenced in the song.

824
00:34:42,664 --> 00:34:45,544
Speaker 2: Yes, and she says like, you know, poisoned thorny flowers,

825
00:34:45,584 --> 00:34:48,384
Speaker 2: obviously referencing like all the floral stuff. I think one

826
00:34:48,384 --> 00:34:51,504
Speaker 2: of the most interesting lines is when she's like tone

827
00:34:51,504 --> 00:34:53,424
Speaker 2: deaf and hot, let's off her, because that was the

828
00:34:53,464 --> 00:34:55,784
Speaker 2: whole thing with Blake, right, like the whole.

829
00:34:55,504 --> 00:34:57,784
Speaker 1: Campaign being And there's so many in the song.

830
00:34:57,824 --> 00:34:59,864
Speaker 2: There's a lot of Blake in this song, and it's her,

831
00:34:59,984 --> 00:35:02,144
Speaker 2: but there's so many references and lyrics in this song

832
00:35:02,184 --> 00:35:04,904
Speaker 2: that point to the exact things that were happening. Of

833
00:35:04,944 --> 00:35:07,384
Speaker 2: like she's tone deaf, let's off her. That was very

834
00:35:07,464 --> 00:35:08,984
Speaker 2: much the vibe was that Blake was tone deaf and

835
00:35:09,024 --> 00:35:11,424
Speaker 2: hot and she was annoying. Suddenly, when previously people had

836
00:35:11,464 --> 00:35:13,384
Speaker 2: been like, she's so funny and we love her hair,

837
00:35:13,464 --> 00:35:16,544
Speaker 2: suddenly was I hate that girl and she is bad hair. Also,

838
00:35:16,864 --> 00:35:19,704
Speaker 2: I think interesting to note because Taylor, when she does

839
00:35:19,784 --> 00:35:22,504
Speaker 2: name drop a designer, she's not associated with any designers.

840
00:35:22,544 --> 00:35:24,584
Speaker 2: So when she does name drop a designer, it's.

841
00:35:24,504 --> 00:35:25,264
Speaker 4: For a reason.

842
00:35:25,944 --> 00:35:28,424
Speaker 3: She wore a lot of Gucci during the reputation era,

843
00:35:28,704 --> 00:35:31,704
Speaker 3: and in particular one of the outfits that she wore

844
00:35:31,744 --> 00:35:33,864
Speaker 3: in the Look What You Made Me Do video, but

845
00:35:33,944 --> 00:35:36,584
Speaker 3: also on stage for that era. So it's just those

846
00:35:36,624 --> 00:35:38,184
Speaker 3: parallels that we always see Taylor.

847
00:35:38,704 --> 00:35:40,624
Speaker 1: She's roasting a time when she was canceled. That's so

848
00:35:40,664 --> 00:35:42,784
Speaker 1: interesting because people read that in a very top level

849
00:35:42,824 --> 00:35:45,384
Speaker 1: way of saying like she's dropping designers because she wants

850
00:35:45,384 --> 00:35:48,584
Speaker 1: to show she's rich, which I didn't think. But I

851
00:35:48,624 --> 00:35:51,144
Speaker 1: think when there's so much critique around an album, You're

852
00:35:51,184 --> 00:35:52,944
Speaker 1: going to have so many different layers that people aren't

853
00:35:52,944 --> 00:35:54,464
Speaker 1: picking up on. So that's an interesting one.

854
00:35:54,464 --> 00:35:56,544
Speaker 4: We don't think it's a surprise she's rich.

855
00:35:56,704 --> 00:36:01,584
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, what a shocking, What a shock when

856
00:36:01,664 --> 00:36:04,824
Speaker 3: he tells millions and millions of records, has a lot

857
00:36:04,864 --> 00:36:06,224
Speaker 3: of money and can buy Gucci.

858
00:36:06,424 --> 00:36:08,344
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. That's coming back to a time when

859
00:36:08,384 --> 00:36:11,344
Speaker 1: she was feeling her most canceled. The other song that

860
00:36:11,384 --> 00:36:13,464
Speaker 1: people think there's a famous name connected to, and this

861
00:36:13,544 --> 00:36:15,104
Speaker 1: was the more tenuous one for me. So love you

862
00:36:15,104 --> 00:36:17,864
Speaker 1: guys to jump into this is father Figure and the

863
00:36:17,864 --> 00:36:22,064
Speaker 1: potential link to Olivia Rodrigo. Wait, is Father Figure a

864
00:36:22,104 --> 00:36:25,944
Speaker 1: divisive You both just know what you're talking about. Yes,

865
00:36:25,984 --> 00:36:27,264
Speaker 1: we know what you're talking about.

866
00:36:27,264 --> 00:36:30,184
Speaker 3: We've talked about this song a lot, and Tina was

867
00:36:30,224 --> 00:36:32,584
Speaker 3: the first to read my review, which she read before.

868
00:36:32,864 --> 00:36:37,184
Speaker 3: As we talked about earlier, Tina had to upload my review. Yes,

869
00:36:37,384 --> 00:36:39,944
Speaker 3: so she read that before she listened to the album,

870
00:36:40,144 --> 00:36:43,104
Speaker 3: and the one note that she sent to me was,

871
00:36:43,424 --> 00:36:46,984
Speaker 3: oh my god, is this Olivia Shay pick it up?

872
00:36:47,024 --> 00:36:48,464
Speaker 1: Just from that, I was scared. I was like, no,

873
00:36:48,544 --> 00:36:49,184
Speaker 1: what's that happened?

874
00:36:50,744 --> 00:36:54,464
Speaker 3: Look, this one is really divisive and it's funny, and

875
00:36:54,504 --> 00:36:58,224
Speaker 3: it is one that I have had comments from fans

876
00:36:58,424 --> 00:37:01,424
Speaker 3: and non fans, well, non Taylor fans. I've had comments

877
00:37:01,464 --> 00:37:04,384
Speaker 3: from Olivia fans saying that I'm wrong about this being

878
00:37:04,384 --> 00:37:05,104
Speaker 3: about Olivia.

879
00:37:05,824 --> 00:37:06,864
Speaker 4: I don't think I am.

880
00:37:07,024 --> 00:37:09,304
Speaker 3: I'm okay to be wrong though as well, like it

881
00:37:09,424 --> 00:37:13,904
Speaker 3: is fine if I am, but to me, I do believe.

882
00:37:14,344 --> 00:37:17,344
Speaker 3: And with the use of the George Michael song and

883
00:37:17,384 --> 00:37:20,904
Speaker 3: the way that Taylor has really labored the topic of

884
00:37:20,944 --> 00:37:26,424
Speaker 3: how she sought full permission to use this song, which

885
00:37:27,224 --> 00:37:31,224
Speaker 3: for spillers that don't know, there is a whole backstory

886
00:37:31,264 --> 00:37:34,464
Speaker 3: with Taylor and Olivia who Taylor took her under her wing.

887
00:37:35,184 --> 00:37:38,064
Speaker 4: Olivia used two of Taylor's.

888
00:37:37,584 --> 00:37:41,624
Speaker 3: Songs without permission or without seeking the correct permission for it,

889
00:37:42,264 --> 00:37:45,664
Speaker 3: and then had to backtrack, and Taylor and Jack's names

890
00:37:45,664 --> 00:37:50,224
Speaker 3: were put on writing credits in retrospect, and we have

891
00:37:50,424 --> 00:37:54,504
Speaker 3: not seen those two publicly in publicly interact ever since.

892
00:37:54,584 --> 00:37:57,344
Speaker 2: And there were rumors that Olivia's song Vampire was about Taylor,

893
00:37:57,504 --> 00:37:59,344
Speaker 2: like people think there was a connection there.

894
00:37:59,424 --> 00:38:01,064
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that is true.

895
00:38:01,344 --> 00:38:03,864
Speaker 3: So the other thing that people have said to me

896
00:38:03,904 --> 00:38:07,664
Speaker 3: about it is, oh, well, like father figure that's male's son.

897
00:38:07,864 --> 00:38:12,784
Speaker 3: The father son relationship. Typically, fans referred to Olivia and

898
00:38:12,824 --> 00:38:15,224
Speaker 3: Taylor as mother and daughter. To Tay daughter, you know,

899
00:38:15,384 --> 00:38:18,504
Speaker 3: it's a thing. Not everything has to be literal, yes,

900
00:38:18,544 --> 00:38:21,584
Speaker 3: And I think that this is really fun to spin

901
00:38:21,664 --> 00:38:23,544
Speaker 3: it and have it as a father and son. I

902
00:38:23,584 --> 00:38:28,344
Speaker 3: also think Taylor has used the metaphor of when she

903
00:38:28,464 --> 00:38:32,424
Speaker 3: takes these people under her wing, and you know, Gracie Sabrina,

904
00:38:32,824 --> 00:38:35,144
Speaker 3: you know, she does see herself as kind of a

905
00:38:35,184 --> 00:38:38,424
Speaker 3: caretaker of these new ones coming through because she has

906
00:38:38,464 --> 00:38:41,504
Speaker 3: sat at all those tables with all those executive men,

907
00:38:41,784 --> 00:38:44,224
Speaker 3: and she has had to prove time and time again

908
00:38:44,664 --> 00:38:47,344
Speaker 3: that she can stand up to them and has had to.

909
00:38:48,304 --> 00:38:51,664
Speaker 3: So I think to cast herself in that light in

910
00:38:51,744 --> 00:38:53,704
Speaker 3: this relationship, to me makes sense.

911
00:38:54,064 --> 00:38:56,624
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean I also read it obviously like

912
00:38:56,664 --> 00:38:58,784
Speaker 2: you're saying of the stuff that she had to deal

913
00:38:58,824 --> 00:39:01,544
Speaker 2: with Scott Borschheer and Scooter Braun, because she talks obviously

914
00:39:01,544 --> 00:39:04,064
Speaker 2: about like the deals and the shadiness and the things

915
00:39:04,104 --> 00:39:05,784
Speaker 2: that were going on behind the scenes. But obviously I

916
00:39:05,784 --> 00:39:08,544
Speaker 2: think that's just informed it. And when this album came out,

917
00:39:08,664 --> 00:39:10,624
Speaker 2: she had kind of said a bit of Night teen

918
00:39:10,664 --> 00:39:14,984
Speaker 2: eighty nine beats with folklore storytelling, and that really upset

919
00:39:15,024 --> 00:39:16,504
Speaker 2: people when the album came out and they heard it

920
00:39:16,504 --> 00:39:18,464
Speaker 2: because they went, you were wrong, that's not what this is.

921
00:39:18,784 --> 00:39:20,584
Speaker 2: But with Father Figure and a few other songs, I'm like, no,

922
00:39:20,704 --> 00:39:22,944
Speaker 2: she is doing this narrative storytelling because look at all

923
00:39:22,944 --> 00:39:25,824
Speaker 2: the discussions we're having about Father Figure, about canceled, about

924
00:39:25,824 --> 00:39:27,984
Speaker 2: these songs and going, wait, who is this about?

925
00:39:28,384 --> 00:39:29,264
Speaker 1: Who related?

926
00:39:29,424 --> 00:39:31,944
Speaker 2: What part is she playing in this song because it's

927
00:39:32,064 --> 00:39:33,664
Speaker 2: very clear at first to some people that it's about

928
00:39:33,704 --> 00:39:35,984
Speaker 2: Scott and Scooter, but maybe it's not because there is

929
00:39:36,024 --> 00:39:38,024
Speaker 2: a key change, and then she starts talking about how

930
00:39:38,064 --> 00:39:40,544
Speaker 2: she's the Father Figure, So it's like it's total to

931
00:39:40,544 --> 00:39:42,744
Speaker 2: be her own interpretations as well of how she can

932
00:39:42,824 --> 00:39:45,784
Speaker 2: lead women in the industry. That doesn't mean that it's

933
00:39:45,784 --> 00:39:50,104
Speaker 2: all positive her interactions, right, She's clearly referencing some stuff

934
00:39:50,104 --> 00:39:51,944
Speaker 2: that went down that maybe, or at least we think

935
00:39:51,984 --> 00:39:53,584
Speaker 2: she might be referencing some of the stuff that went

936
00:39:53,584 --> 00:39:56,424
Speaker 2: down with Olivia along with the things that she herself experienced.

937
00:39:56,664 --> 00:39:58,184
Speaker 2: But also that then she does want to do a

938
00:39:58,184 --> 00:40:00,744
Speaker 2: better job of guiding people like Sabrina and Gracie, those

939
00:40:00,784 --> 00:40:02,064
Speaker 2: other artists so.

940
00:40:02,064 --> 00:40:04,664
Speaker 1: It's a it's a complicated well, I guess it wouldn't

941
00:40:04,664 --> 00:40:06,944
Speaker 1: be a passage album if it wasn't layered and like

942
00:40:07,024 --> 00:40:09,864
Speaker 1: full of bops but also questions and all those things

943
00:40:09,904 --> 00:40:12,744
Speaker 1: that we us new swifties are really getting into.

944
00:40:12,904 --> 00:40:15,024
Speaker 2: But I think this is an album non Sifties who

945
00:40:15,144 --> 00:40:17,504
Speaker 2: just like a bop will enjoy, Like people will enjoy

946
00:40:17,544 --> 00:40:18,744
Speaker 2: this album and not need to.

947
00:40:18,704 --> 00:40:21,904
Speaker 3: Care No, and like you don't need to know these backstories.

948
00:40:21,944 --> 00:40:23,424
Speaker 4: It's fun. It's hard being a.

949
00:40:23,344 --> 00:40:26,584
Speaker 3: Swift It's the Easter eggs, It's you know, what we

950
00:40:26,624 --> 00:40:29,544
Speaker 3: talk about. You know, it's what swifties talk about online,

951
00:40:29,544 --> 00:40:32,544
Speaker 3: It's what we talk about with our friends. Yeah, but

952
00:40:32,704 --> 00:40:35,064
Speaker 3: you can still enjoy the music without knowing all of this.

953
00:40:35,304 --> 00:40:37,064
Speaker 2: But there's there's a couple of songs I have major

954
00:40:37,064 --> 00:40:40,984
Speaker 2: beef with on this album.

955
00:40:38,184 --> 00:40:43,224
Speaker 1: But like as we finish up now, like your favorite favorite,

956
00:40:43,824 --> 00:40:45,224
Speaker 1: but you can also say the ones you have beef

957
00:40:45,264 --> 00:40:48,944
Speaker 1: with quickly do you a quick? So quick one?

958
00:40:49,224 --> 00:40:52,704
Speaker 2: Track five is normally the song that is like emotionally fraught,

959
00:40:53,144 --> 00:40:55,944
Speaker 2: really like powerful, like not always, but very often, the

960
00:40:55,984 --> 00:40:58,184
Speaker 2: track five of a Taylor Swift album is the big

961
00:40:58,224 --> 00:41:01,104
Speaker 2: hitter emotionally so this one was called Elder's Daughter, and

962
00:41:01,144 --> 00:41:03,344
Speaker 2: everyone was bracing for it because they were like, oh, like,

963
00:41:03,384 --> 00:41:04,584
Speaker 2: it's going to be really sad, it's going to be

964
00:41:04,624 --> 00:41:06,664
Speaker 2: this nap. I know so many people who listen to

965
00:41:06,704 --> 00:41:08,544
Speaker 2: this song. I think Breeze one of them who really

966
00:41:08,584 --> 00:41:10,824
Speaker 2: love it and who felt it or like at least

967
00:41:10,864 --> 00:41:11,664
Speaker 2: really enjoyed it.

968
00:41:12,104 --> 00:41:13,064
Speaker 1: I skipped that.

969
00:41:13,024 --> 00:41:15,384
Speaker 2: Song the first four times I heard it, and I

970
00:41:15,424 --> 00:41:17,824
Speaker 2: skipped it at the exact same point, and it is

971
00:41:17,864 --> 00:41:20,504
Speaker 2: when she says that eldest daughters are like lambs raised

972
00:41:20,544 --> 00:41:22,744
Speaker 2: for slaughter, and then they put on their outfits and

973
00:41:22,744 --> 00:41:23,384
Speaker 2: they look fire.

974
00:41:23,424 --> 00:41:25,224
Speaker 1: And I was like, I've had enough of you, Taylor's

975
00:41:26,304 --> 00:41:28,144
Speaker 1: I love that. That's a bit of a personal issue.

976
00:41:29,784 --> 00:41:31,624
Speaker 1: What it might just be the middle child in me, But.

977
00:41:33,744 --> 00:41:37,584
Speaker 2: You sit, I'm a middle child, and I think I've

978
00:41:37,584 --> 00:41:41,264
Speaker 2: had it with eldest daughter, and how every eldest daughter.

979
00:41:41,304 --> 00:41:43,304
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure there's too right here? Possibly are you

980
00:41:43,704 --> 00:41:44,384
Speaker 2: I'm a middle child?

981
00:41:45,104 --> 00:41:48,744
Speaker 1: An No? Okay, no? Did you skip it to because

982
00:41:48,784 --> 00:41:51,024
Speaker 1: I was like, I've had it with the eldest daughters.

983
00:41:51,824 --> 00:41:54,584
Speaker 1: Imagine the middle forgotten child? Also, can you be an

984
00:41:54,624 --> 00:41:56,504
Speaker 1: eldest daughter if you're the only daughter is my thing

985
00:41:56,584 --> 00:41:57,424
Speaker 1: about Taylor Swift.

986
00:41:57,504 --> 00:41:58,064
Speaker 4: I think you can.

987
00:41:58,104 --> 00:42:01,304
Speaker 1: There was a lot of discourse, you're the only girl,

988
00:42:01,344 --> 00:42:02,024
Speaker 1: who are you committing?

989
00:42:02,144 --> 00:42:04,584
Speaker 2: And I am in a bridge of the song now

990
00:42:04,624 --> 00:42:07,304
Speaker 2: that I eventually made it, but I still still don't

991
00:42:07,424 --> 00:42:07,904
Speaker 2: like the song.

992
00:42:07,944 --> 00:42:08,624
Speaker 1: But that's fine.

993
00:42:08,904 --> 00:42:13,984
Speaker 3: I am an eldest daughter and now well I wanted

994
00:42:14,024 --> 00:42:15,584
Speaker 3: to be No, that's the.

995
00:42:15,584 --> 00:42:19,544
Speaker 4: Thing I have to say. I really like the song.

996
00:42:19,904 --> 00:42:24,544
Speaker 4: I don't love it. I do love the lamb to

997
00:42:24,624 --> 00:42:25,304
Speaker 4: the slaughter part.

998
00:42:25,424 --> 00:42:28,104
Speaker 1: That is actually my favorite part.

999
00:42:28,384 --> 00:42:31,384
Speaker 4: Yes, and I.

1000
00:42:30,624 --> 00:42:34,704
Speaker 3: Do relate to being an eldest daughter. As I say,

1001
00:42:34,704 --> 00:42:36,424
Speaker 3: I always look for the song that I relate to

1002
00:42:36,504 --> 00:42:36,904
Speaker 3: the most.

1003
00:42:37,064 --> 00:42:38,184
Speaker 1: This I thought would be it.

1004
00:42:38,504 --> 00:42:39,824
Speaker 4: Hands down. I thought it would be it.

1005
00:42:39,864 --> 00:42:42,064
Speaker 3: I've also had the most elder s daughter year of

1006
00:42:42,184 --> 00:42:43,144
Speaker 3: my life.

1007
00:42:43,344 --> 00:42:45,064
Speaker 4: Which I'm not going to go into right now.

1008
00:42:45,344 --> 00:42:48,184
Speaker 3: But I was expecting this to be a real gut

1009
00:42:48,184 --> 00:42:50,464
Speaker 3: punch for me, like we know track five songs are.

1010
00:42:50,704 --> 00:42:51,984
Speaker 4: This wasn't it.

1011
00:42:52,344 --> 00:42:55,384
Speaker 3: And I don't want to blame this, but I really

1012
00:42:55,424 --> 00:42:58,184
Speaker 3: would have loved to have seen this in the hands

1013
00:42:58,184 --> 00:43:02,584
Speaker 3: of Aaron Dezna instead of Smart and yeah, look.

1014
00:43:02,464 --> 00:43:04,384
Speaker 1: My other skip is wish List. I don't care for that.

1015
00:43:05,144 --> 00:43:08,464
Speaker 3: That's my least favorite too, and Taylor says it's her favorite,

1016
00:43:08,504 --> 00:43:10,504
Speaker 3: and maybe.

1017
00:43:10,064 --> 00:43:14,304
Speaker 1: Where maybe we're wrong. I just don't care. Maybe we're

1018
00:43:14,384 --> 00:43:17,664
Speaker 1: just not happy enough. I mean, what are your favorite

1019
00:43:17,664 --> 00:43:19,224
Speaker 1: what you've been yelling along to?

1020
00:43:19,704 --> 00:43:22,544
Speaker 2: I love the drama of Elizabeth Taylor, I love favor

1021
00:43:22,704 --> 00:43:24,184
Speaker 2: I love a lot of these songs. The one for

1022
00:43:24,264 --> 00:43:26,504
Speaker 2: me is Opolite. I'm rebranding it as a Christmas song

1023
00:43:26,544 --> 00:43:30,104
Speaker 2: because of the and the bells, like it is giving Christmas,

1024
00:43:30,224 --> 00:43:31,944
Speaker 2: and all these people hate it and I'm just like

1025
00:43:32,024 --> 00:43:35,984
Speaker 2: bopping along in my living room song. And it's Travis

1026
00:43:36,024 --> 00:43:37,584
Speaker 2: Kelsey's two so maybe it's me and him too.

1027
00:43:37,584 --> 00:43:41,184
Speaker 1: Bees in a podcas and Kelsey had the same tasty music.

1028
00:43:40,984 --> 00:43:43,224
Speaker 2: And as Graham Norton's favorite too, So we're in your company,

1029
00:43:43,864 --> 00:43:47,064
Speaker 2: Graham and Travis. A little quotette, what's your favorite? So

1030
00:43:47,224 --> 00:43:49,744
Speaker 2: my absolute favorite is Father Figure. I have listened to

1031
00:43:49,784 --> 00:43:53,064
Speaker 2: it on repeat so much good. I actually really do

1032
00:43:53,184 --> 00:43:54,224
Speaker 2: relate to it.

1033
00:43:54,344 --> 00:43:57,464
Speaker 1: That's weird. And I also love.

1034
00:43:57,344 --> 00:43:59,664
Speaker 3: The Life of a Show Girl with Sabrina. I think

1035
00:43:59,704 --> 00:44:02,504
Speaker 3: it is so much fun. I love the storytelling on

1036
00:44:02,584 --> 00:44:04,624
Speaker 3: this and I think that it goes back to that,

1037
00:44:04,784 --> 00:44:07,584
Speaker 3: you know, classic storytelling that Taylor does that we saw

1038
00:44:07,584 --> 00:44:09,864
Speaker 3: in Love Story, that we saw in you know, the

1039
00:44:09,864 --> 00:44:13,704
Speaker 3: Greater Maria Dynasty, and a lot of the songs that

1040
00:44:13,784 --> 00:44:17,224
Speaker 3: also had that show girl theming back in the day,

1041
00:44:17,304 --> 00:44:20,344
Speaker 3: you know, like the Lucky One on Red and some

1042
00:44:20,384 --> 00:44:24,184
Speaker 3: of those earlier. Yeah, real storytelling. It's a story that

1043
00:44:24,224 --> 00:44:28,344
Speaker 3: she has lived, and I don't think anyone is sort

1044
00:44:28,344 --> 00:44:31,104
Speaker 3: of better equipped today as a pop star to talk

1045
00:44:31,144 --> 00:44:33,784
Speaker 3: about what it means to be a pop star now,

1046
00:44:34,504 --> 00:44:38,544
Speaker 3: and then Sabrina speaks about it from that sort of.

1047
00:44:38,704 --> 00:44:39,984
Speaker 4: Up and comer perspective.

1048
00:44:40,064 --> 00:44:42,824
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, thank you Tina and Brief for those very

1049
00:44:42,864 --> 00:44:45,744
Speaker 1: in depth critiques and for sharing all your thoughts on

1050
00:44:45,784 --> 00:44:48,224
Speaker 1: this album as anything with Taylor Allison Swift. So much

1051
00:44:48,264 --> 00:44:51,024
Speaker 1: to say. But we also link Breeze review in the

1052
00:44:51,024 --> 00:44:52,824
Speaker 1: show notes so you can read a more in depth

1053
00:44:52,864 --> 00:44:54,944
Speaker 1: story there. But yeah, just happy to have you both

1054
00:44:54,944 --> 00:44:57,144
Speaker 1: here and thank you so much for listening to The Spill.

1055
00:44:57,224 --> 00:44:59,664
Speaker 1: Stay as always. If you're more behind the scenes more

1056
00:44:59,664 --> 00:45:01,664
Speaker 1: about the Spill, you can follow us on Instagram at

1057
00:45:01,664 --> 00:45:03,904
Speaker 1: The Spill Podcast and we will see you back here

1058
00:45:03,904 --> 00:45:05,984
Speaker 1: in your feed tomorrow at eight am for morning tea.

1059
00:45:06,184 --> 00:45:12,944
Speaker 1: Bye bye bye Halla loll it ll it,