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Speaker 1: You're listening to I'm am a mere podcast. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: Parenting out Loud the podcast. It's not like the other

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Speaker 1: parenting podcasts. We are not going to give you advice.

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Speaker 1: You are getting enough of that. We are just going

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Speaker 1: to break down the trends, what's happening in pop culture

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Speaker 1: and say the things you're probably thinking about. Parenting out Loud.

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Speaker 1: And if you're a regular listener to this show, you'll

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Speaker 1: know that I'm not Monique bolly Mons is away this week,

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Speaker 1: and I am Stacy Hicks.

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Speaker 2: I'm Amelia Lester, and I am Luca Levine.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back, Luca. Can you believe we let you in

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Speaker 1: for a second week in a row.

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Speaker 3: No, but I'm really glad to be here.

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Speaker 4: And maybe in the future one day I might even

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Speaker 4: come back again, maybe depending on my performance.

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Speaker 1: Today, as long as you don't give any of us chewy.

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Speaker 1: If you were a listener last week, you'll know what

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Speaker 1: I'm referring to.

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Speaker 4: I am sorry about that. I ditched my chewing gum

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Speaker 4: before I came into the Room's.

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Speaker 2: Very smart, you're learning.

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Speaker 1: It's fine.

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Speaker 2: We'll keep you so.

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Speaker 1: Coming off on today's.

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Speaker 2: Show, I'm going to explain what trimester zero is and

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Speaker 2: why I hate it.

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Speaker 3: I have a podcast episode.

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Speaker 4: I am desperate to talk to you guys about about

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Speaker 4: the art.

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Speaker 1: Of gathering, and I have a parent in ritual. I

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Speaker 1: didn't realize was a bit creepy, but I think we

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Speaker 1: might all be guilty of it.

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Speaker 2: But first, is this the most relatable headline of all time?

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Speaker 2: Parents are going broke from their kids sushi obsession. Yes,

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Speaker 2: this was an article in the Wall Street Journal back

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Speaker 2: in January, but people keep referencing it to me, so

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Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, fine, we do have to talk

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Speaker 2: about it. It's hitting way too close to home for me. Basically,

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Speaker 2: this article interviews parents who say that the worst financial

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Speaker 2: decision they ever made was introducing their children to sushi.

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Speaker 2: It's me. Apparently it has now replaced pizza at many kids'

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Speaker 2: birthday parties. Move over chicken fingers for Jen Alpha. They've

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Speaker 2: got this interesting theory as to why this is for

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Speaker 2: Gen Alpha, which is basically, kids up until the edge

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Speaker 2: of about twelve, they don't think of sushi as like

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Speaker 2: a fancy pants thing, you know, like for millennials growing

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Speaker 2: up in the nineties, like sushi was this unimaginable exotic

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Speaker 2: food stuff. That I could never hope to try.

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Speaker 1: Avocado just didn't exist when we were kids, and suddenly

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Speaker 1: it's plentiful.

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Speaker 3: Yes, sushi has kind of entered the normal rotation.

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Speaker 2: To a yeah, it's round normal, Whereas I think I

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Speaker 2: first saw sushi on an episode of Sex and the

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Speaker 2: City in like nineteen ninety nine, and I just thought,

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Speaker 2: what is that exquisite food stuff? And now my children

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Speaker 2: don't think it's a good weekend unless they get their sushi.

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Speaker 2: What monsters have I created here? The secret as to

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Speaker 2: why kids love sushi, according to this Wall Street Journal article,

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Speaker 2: is something considerably low brow. Basically, they love the sugar.

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Speaker 2: Sushi chef's told the journal that the more sugar they

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Speaker 2: put into rice, the more kids like to eat it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it's making a bit more sense now.

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Speaker 2: Making it's not the amazing gets in the healthy fat,

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Speaker 2: it's the sugar in the rice. Yah, Luca, you are

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Speaker 2: notoriously careful with money. Have you introduced your daughter?

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Speaker 4: Okay, hang on, I like that. I've been on the

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Speaker 4: show twice. My reputation for being my reputation for being

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Speaker 4: how we say, frugal, careful, tight ass precedes me.

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Speaker 3: But it's very accurate. To be clear.

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Speaker 4: So no, I don't put a bory salmon in my

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Speaker 4: daughter's lunchbox for preschool.

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Speaker 3: I think that I've discovered one.

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Speaker 4: Of the only benefits of having a pickI eater, which

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Speaker 4: is that I'm not We're not shelling out for you know,

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Speaker 4: californiaear roles. We're shelling out for veggiemte on toast, three

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Speaker 4: meals a day, far far more affordable.

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Speaker 1: It's so good, it's actually fine. Like I actually feel

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Speaker 1: like sushi now has become the new Oh my child

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Speaker 1: loves broccoli. Like it's a bit of a brag sushi

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Speaker 1: child lunchbox. I'd be like, look at the meeting, this

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Speaker 1: sid sam. But I just think, like, you can't beat

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Speaker 1: a veggie mighte sandwich, So there's win in being a pigita.

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Speaker 4: I do remember my wife and I did a sushi

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Speaker 4: making class in Japan, and to your point, Mills, I

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Speaker 4: was shocked by the amount of sugar in the rice.

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Speaker 3: No wonder kids are finding it delicious.

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Speaker 1: No wonder I'm finding it delicious. There's another story I

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Speaker 1: want to bring to you. I wear it like a

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Speaker 1: badge of honor that I told you about six seven

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Speaker 1: Before six seven, inn I hold on to that. I

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Speaker 1: feel like we've mentioned it way too many times. I

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Speaker 1: need to tell you that it's been replaced. So there

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Speaker 1: is a new term that's driving all the teachers mad

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Speaker 1: and it will soon be driving the parents mad as well.

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Speaker 1: And it is chicken banana. Have you heard this yet?

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Speaker 2: No? But you always tell me the things I need

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Speaker 2: to know. Okay, what is this?

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Speaker 1: Okay, so apologies for the earworm, but I'm going to

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Speaker 1: play to you where this has come from?

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Speaker 5: Chicken, chicken.

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Speaker 4: Chicken?

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Speaker 2: Is this Minions?

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Speaker 1: No, it's just a chicken with a banana head.

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Speaker 4: I think we might have spoken about this last year

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Speaker 4: when and I was on the show.

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Speaker 1: We did Monique Bowley was a trend set up for

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Speaker 1: once in her life. She said that her kids were

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Speaker 1: playing this, so she is actually ahead of the trend,

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Speaker 1: not me this time.

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Speaker 2: Do you know what this reminds me of? For millennials listening? Manomena?

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Speaker 2: Do do do?

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Speaker 5: Do?

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Speaker 1: Yes? Manoma? It is like that. It's from this Swedish

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Speaker 1: production company. They do these things called crazy Music Channel.

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Speaker 2: They just do sorry, what does that mean? They do

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Speaker 2: these things called crazy music Channel. That needs like a

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Speaker 2: noun and that Yeah.

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Speaker 1: They just create these little techno inspired earworms and put

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Speaker 1: them on YouTube and it.

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Speaker 2: Got thesh yes of course.

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Speaker 1: And it got picked up and kind of as all

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Speaker 1: things do, came onto TikTok and has filtered down from

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Speaker 1: there to kids that are too young to even ever

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Speaker 1: see it on TikTok, and now they're just apparently saying it.

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Speaker 1: So this piece in box was saying, they're saying it

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Speaker 1: in reaction to anything like if they feel sorry for someone,

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Speaker 1: they'll be like, oh, chicken banana.

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Speaker 4: The problem is like, Okay, here's what you need to

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Speaker 4: know about this, Ryan. This is brain rot. You guys

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Speaker 4: familiar the term brain rong.

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Speaker 2: Okay, my child has mentioned brain rot to me, and

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Speaker 2: I have asked many questions about what it is and

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Speaker 2: I still don't understand. Maybe you, someone considerably older than him,

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Speaker 2: can explain it to me.

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Speaker 4: I'm very wise think of brain rod as content that's

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Speaker 4: so dumb and meaningless it literally rots your brain. It

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Speaker 4: is low quality, it is absurdist, and usually it is

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Speaker 4: designed for very very short attention spans.

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Speaker 2: Not this podcast. We just want to say that.

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Speaker 3: Not this podcast.

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Speaker 4: So those who are very in touch with the culture

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Speaker 4: or very very TikTok literate would have seen Italian brain rod,

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Speaker 4: which has been very big, maybe three to six months

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Speaker 4: ago on on TikTok.

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Speaker 1: What's Italian brain rot?

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Speaker 3: La la tung tung tung tung tung tung tung tung

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Speaker 3: tung sahoram bardo crocodilo.

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Speaker 4: Or if we go a little bit further back to

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Speaker 4: like the twenty fourteens fifteens, you might remember this viral

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Speaker 4: song I have a pen, I have the apple, oh apple.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was doing things in twenty fourteen. I was

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Speaker 2: not listening to brain rotising out.

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Speaker 1: If we didn't need proof that Amelia is smarter than us.

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Speaker 3: There it is.

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Speaker 4: The only yeah, we would just do. We were pumping along.

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Speaker 4: The only takeaway is there's nothing to be understood. You're

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Speaker 4: not missing anything. There's no meaning. It's just a thing

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Speaker 4: to see.

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Speaker 2: So did we have brain rot? Sorry to keep talking

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Speaker 2: about the nineties, but it was the best decade of

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Speaker 2: all time. Did we have brain rot in the nineties?

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Speaker 3: I don't think we had brain tied.

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Speaker 2: Up with the Internet. It's tied up with short form.

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Speaker 4: It's tied up with absurdity of pop culture through video

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Speaker 4: in particular. Yeah, okay, and so that's why we've seen

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Speaker 4: it emerge around the early two thousands, and then not

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Speaker 4: only emerge, but then get shorter and shorter and shorter,

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Speaker 4: to the point where we are just saying numbers at

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Speaker 4: each other.

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Speaker 3: Truly two and animals together.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and with this one, they were saying that, like parents,

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Speaker 1: don't try and understand it. It doesn't mean anything. Just

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Speaker 1: let them have it, Just let them have their fun.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'll focus on the coalitions leaderships. Yeah, you do that.

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Speaker 2: Don't touch receipts, Steer clear of ice beverages, avoid commuting

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Speaker 2: during rush hour, and under no circumstances use nail polish.

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Speaker 2: These are just some of the rules that you need

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Speaker 2: to follow if you are in what is called trimester zero, which,

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Speaker 2: if you're listening to this podcast, is probably too late

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Speaker 2: for you, but I'm going to explain why you need

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Speaker 2: to pay attention anyway. Try master zero is the time

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Speaker 2: before you were pregnant. It is what you were meant

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Speaker 2: to be doing before you want to conceive in order

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Speaker 2: to develop the healthiest baby. Don't worry if you did

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Speaker 2: any or all of these things, because these rules are

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Speaker 2: all deeply unscientific. They're being peddled by various online influencers

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Speaker 2: who have decided that they need to boss around pre

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Speaker 2: pregnant women trimester zero, that's their words, and look, you mind,

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Speaker 2: and this is fair? What is wrong with trying to

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Speaker 2: be as healthy as possible when you're trying to conceive

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Speaker 2: the answer is that trimester zero is part of this

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Speaker 2: overall trend towards optimizing everything about parenting, starting from even

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Speaker 2: before you're pregnant. How can you make the perfect baby?

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Speaker 2: How can you raise the perfect child? And treating children

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Speaker 2: like a startup trying to perfect them through planning and

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Speaker 2: spreadsheets just seems to be so beside the point to me,

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Speaker 2: because parenting is about surrendering control or am I just

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Speaker 2: overthinking it? Should I just be encouraging people to have

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Speaker 2: healthy fetuses.

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Speaker 1: I think you're right. I think we're taught that effort

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Speaker 1: will equal result with a lot of things in life,

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Speaker 1: like if you put in the effort, then you will

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Speaker 1: get the best pussile or will result back. But parenting

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Speaker 1: and babies, pregnancy is one of the places where that's

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Speaker 1: just not the case. Like science and fertility don't care

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Speaker 1: that you've done all of those things. It might not

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Speaker 1: move the dial for you so I feel like this

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Speaker 1: trend of having to optimize every single thing to do

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Speaker 1: with pregnancy and parenting is just creating another stick for

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Speaker 1: us to hit ourselves with, Like it just feels like

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Speaker 1: another way to be like, oh I failed, I didn't

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Speaker 1: do enough, when really there's nothing we can control the

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Speaker 1: point of parenting is it is a thing that you

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Speaker 1: just cannot control in a lot of way. Ye.

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Speaker 2: The doctor's interviewed for this article that I read about

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Speaker 2: tremas zero and the Cut, they were asked, well, what

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Speaker 2: can women do in order to be as healthy as

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Speaker 2: possible before they conceive? Do you know what? They said?

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Speaker 2: I don't know, have an STI test, just try and

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Speaker 2: eat some vegetables, and all of these rules they said,

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Speaker 2: are just overkilled. You don't need to be doing these things.

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Speaker 2: But then I saw there was this other article in

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Speaker 2: the Cut which I happened to just glance at while

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Speaker 2: I was reading it about how men need to optimize this.

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Speaker 1: Yes, because this is straight away I was like, of

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Speaker 1: course it's the women. Of course it's the women having

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Speaker 1: to optimize everything in the leader. But now there's this

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Speaker 1: big trend of men doing it. So that piece you're

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Speaker 1: talking about was called men are obsessed with optimizing their sperm.

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Speaker 1: And they spoke to this guy, Ashton Pinier. He's got

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Speaker 1: these He's designed with a pouch that holds an ice

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Speaker 1: packed cool down his testicles.

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Speaker 4: Apparently mentally you're meant to let them breather here one.

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Speaker 3: Of these benefits.

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Speaker 2: Do you hear?

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Speaker 3: Yes, you haven't read I.

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Speaker 1: Told yeah exactly. But as they say in the piece,

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Speaker 1: they spoke to so many experts who are like, there

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Speaker 1: is no magic bullet for fertility. It's not going to

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Speaker 1: fix anything for you necessarily.

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Speaker 3: It's not.

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Speaker 4: It sort of feels like the logical conclusion of like

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Speaker 4: coalescing capitalism and fertility, kind of right, trying to buy

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Speaker 4: control like yours. It's all about control, right, And it's

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Speaker 4: effectively just trying to buy control in a process that,

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Speaker 4: as you said, Stace, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 4: is relatively uncontrollable even if you do everything perfectly. According

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Speaker 4: to the American Society for Reproductive Medicine, healthy couple, healthy

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Speaker 4: in their twenties, so relatively young, still only has a

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Speaker 4: twenty five percent chance of conceiving on any given month.

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Speaker 4: Even if I'm icing my testicles every other day.

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Speaker 1: It's tough out there.

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Speaker 3: It's crazy, which I'm not. I'm doing it every third day.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for clearing that up.

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Speaker 2: But I think there's a sinis aside to it too,

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Speaker 2: Like I think a lot of this is very ridiculous,

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Speaker 2: but I think it can potentially be taken to kind

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Speaker 2: of a dark place. There was an article in the

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Speaker 2: Wall Street Journal last year about Silicon Valley's growing obsession

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Speaker 2: with having smart babies. Every tech guru at Silicon Valley

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Speaker 2: is obsessed with trying to create the smartest baby possible.

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Speaker 2: They're paying fifty thousand dollars US that is for like

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Speaker 2: these new genetic testing services that promise to screen embryos

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Speaker 2: for IQ. It's called genetic optimization, and they employ matchmakers

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Speaker 2: who try and find the smartest possible partner for them.

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Speaker 2: I love this quote from the article. Scholars note there

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Speaker 2: are more traditional millennia old ways to aim for a

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Speaker 2: brighter kid, such as education or reproducing with another smart person.

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Speaker 2: Just throwing a few ideas at the wall there.

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Speaker 4: And so is the I deal with that that if

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Speaker 4: you get a set of embryos and they come back

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Speaker 4: and they're ranked on IQ exactly, you say we're going

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Speaker 4: to proceed exactly the smartest embryo, because.

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Speaker 2: All they care about is getting a kid with the

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Speaker 2: highest possible IQ. Now, obviously, when you start talking about

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Speaker 2: IQs and China create the smartest possible babies, you're taking

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Speaker 2: yourself down a potentially dangerous path. And a lot of

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Speaker 2: the people who push for this optimization for IQ are

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Speaker 2: what's called pro natalists. They're these people who think that

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Speaker 2: smart humans have an obligation to reproduce. Elon Musk is

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Speaker 2: one of the people who thinks this.

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Speaker 4: This is the whole we have to spread our seed,

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Speaker 4: pass out only if you're smart, smart.

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Speaker 3: Genes onto the next generation so on, exactly.

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Speaker 2: And it's a little bit gross. I think it's kind

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Speaker 2: of taking that like Instagram age optimization of children to

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Speaker 2: its logical, darkest end point, which is we only want

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Speaker 2: to have babies that exactly fit our criteria.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, why were you saying that this is now happening

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Speaker 1: like into parenthood a couple of years in Now people

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Speaker 1: are optimizing that experience as well, like they're using essentially

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Speaker 1: Monday board.

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Speaker 4: You and I, Yeah, you and I were talking earlier.

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Speaker 4: This week's stays about there's this TikTok trend now of

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Speaker 4: exactly as you said, E merely are treating your kids

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Speaker 4: like a project to manage, like a startup optimizing your

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Speaker 4: family management. So they are in now notion templates for

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Speaker 4: managing your household. Notion is like a project management tool

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Speaker 4: or project management app. And this idea of optimizing every

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Speaker 4: phase of our kids' lives and our family lives at

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Speaker 4: home is really coming to the fore.

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Speaker 2: What do you do with these Notion templates?

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Speaker 4: So maybe like you might be able to break down

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Speaker 4: and see who's doing their chores, assigned chores out to

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Speaker 4: this person and that person. Look at which of your

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Speaker 4: kids is being most efficient. That's a lot of spreadsheets

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Speaker 4: on any give week, and who might be underperforming.

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Speaker 3: Maybe you need to put one on a PIP or

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Speaker 3: something similar.

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Speaker 1: Wow, but do you feel like this is just a

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Speaker 1: result of now like more families. I guess I've got

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Speaker 1: both parents working, so you kind of do need to

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Speaker 1: run it like a military operation in the morning. And

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Speaker 1: this is how they try to take that control.

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Speaker 2: I think it's more sinister than that. I think that

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Speaker 2: you pinned the point there when you said it's about control.

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Speaker 2: I think we're in this scary time for humanity. We

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Speaker 2: don't quite know what's coming next with AI and climate

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Speaker 2: change and all the big fears that we have and

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Speaker 2: a elon spreading a seat, spreading a seed. And I

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Speaker 2: think that idea that there's one thing I can control

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Speaker 2: and that's my child is a very seductive idea. I

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Speaker 2: just wish it were true.

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Speaker 3: It's seductive.

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Speaker 4: But also, to bring it back to something you said earlier,

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Speaker 4: I think that what it misses is that if we

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Speaker 4: spend so much time trying to optimize and even like

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Speaker 4: looking at my morning this morning, like it's done in

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Speaker 4: a very specific way. I get up, like I do

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Speaker 4: some sit ups, I get the child up, I'm in

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Speaker 4: a shower, I do like twenty five of four different

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Speaker 4: types of situps, so like one hundred in total. Wow, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I'm pretty great.

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Speaker 2: Different.

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Speaker 4: I'd love to be able to say I do that

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Speaker 4: every day. It's more like a once every one to

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Speaker 4: two weeks kind of situation.

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Speaker 1: I'm still impressed.

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Speaker 2: So what you're saying is you kind of you do

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Speaker 2: see the appealance, and you've taken taken.

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Speaker 3: This is my brain, right, this is how my brain works.

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Speaker 4: But in ten years, we're not going to be looking

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Speaker 4: back at the memories of the morning that were super

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Speaker 4: fucking efficient. Like, so much of the memories that we

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Speaker 4: end up having down the line are from those moments

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Speaker 4: of messiness and are from the things that we don't

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Speaker 4: plan for and that we don't optimize.

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Speaker 2: That's so true.

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Speaker 4: And I think both of those things that we've just

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Speaker 4: talked about it true at once. Like cost of living

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Speaker 4: is high, both parents in most families work. Now, we

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Speaker 4: need to run our houses super efficiently, and we need

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Speaker 4: to run our lives and our kids in our family

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Speaker 4: super efficiently, maybe even from before we're pregnant. But if

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Speaker 4: we go to far down that route, are we veering

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Speaker 4: into a territory when our lives are in military operation

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Speaker 4: and no one has fun.

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Speaker 1: Anymore and you're doing one hundred sit ups a day yuck,

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Speaker 1: once every two weeks. Okay, So I wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: to you too about something I did this week that

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize was maybe a bit weird that I do.

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Speaker 1: I shared a photo of my daughter just to my

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Speaker 1: close friends on Instagram of her fastest sleep, very cute.

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Speaker 1: Took a photo of her, but in the caption I

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Speaker 1: mentioned that I do this every night. So every night

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Speaker 1: that I'm there, I take a photo every night, literally

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Speaker 1: every night. It started maybe she's it hasn't been since birth.

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Speaker 1: It's like your sit up. It's very sporadic. It's probably

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Speaker 1: about six months ago and now I can't seem to

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Speaker 1: stop doing it. And our own producer Ruth mentioned to

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Speaker 1: me saying, that's really interesting that you do that, and

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Speaker 1: it got me thinking about the things that parents do

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Speaker 1: that are probably a little bit creepy to non parents

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Speaker 1: but feel quite special to us. So is this something

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Speaker 1: that you guys are doing as well? Or am I

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Speaker 1: just a weirdo?

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Speaker 3: Can I ask you first why you're doing this? Why

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Speaker 3: do you take photos?

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Speaker 1: I think that for me, it's like holding on to

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Speaker 1: that version of her from that day. When I thought

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Speaker 1: about it, mor I was like, I think that's what

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Speaker 1: it is. Am I crying Because as they get older,

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Speaker 1: you're like meeting the new version of them and then

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh, that one's gone. I love that one,

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Speaker 1: and it feels like the most calm version of them

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Speaker 1: that they will have. Medlick is actually tearing up, but

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Speaker 1: it is. It's the only way I can think to

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Speaker 1: hold onto the version of her that she was that day.

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Speaker 2: So, and it's a nicely non confrontational way of doing it.

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Speaker 2: You know what I think is violence is when your

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Speaker 2: iPhone serves up memories from three years ago and you're

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Speaker 2: just like it hits you like a punch to the stomach.

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Speaker 2: It's like, I didn't ask to be reminded of the

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Speaker 2: passage of time today, Apple, I can't cope with this

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Speaker 2: right now. Whereas you're doing it on your own terms,

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Speaker 2: you're doing it at a particular time meet day, and

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Speaker 2: it's not sort of hitting you all of a sudden.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, then I can go back and just look at

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Speaker 1: my little creepy file of all the photos of Paris

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Speaker 1: Leap later. I'm interested to see what you'll think about

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Speaker 1: it one day.

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Speaker 2: I also think there's an element there of you like

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Speaker 2: slowing down time right, And I think being conscious of

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Speaker 2: the passage of time is both really painful but also

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Speaker 2: really necessary for parents. The only thing I could think

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Speaker 2: of that's analogous that I did was I used to

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Speaker 2: make a monthly photo album during the pandemic, when when

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Speaker 2: I was separated from my extended family, I would make

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Speaker 2: a monthly photo album of my kids to send to them,

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Speaker 2: and it was lovely to sit down on the couch

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Speaker 2: you know once a month and just idly go through

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Speaker 2: the photos, select a few makeup tiny little album of

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Speaker 2: that month. I only did it for a year. I'm

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Speaker 2: very lazy, but we cherish those twelve little albums, and

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Speaker 2: I do think it allowed me, in that year that

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Speaker 2: I did it, to savor the passage of time rather

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Speaker 2: than be scared.

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Speaker 4: I think my version of this is that every morning

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Speaker 4: I get my daughter up every day, and before we

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Speaker 4: go and start the day, we have cuddles every morning,

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Speaker 4: so like we sit in a little chair in her

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Speaker 4: room and we look out the window and we talk

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Speaker 4: about what she's going to do on that day.

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Speaker 3: But I need to know how to save that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Because also, Stace, I apologize for first throwing so much

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Speaker 4: shit at you when you told me about this, because

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Speaker 4: I'm like, that's creepy.

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Speaker 3: As it's weird.

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Speaker 4: Why do you take photos of you and she's sleeping.

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Speaker 4: It makes no sense, what are you going to do

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Speaker 4: with it? But then you told me about it, and

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Speaker 4: I'm like, Wow, that's outstanding. And now I'm worried that

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Speaker 4: my own little ritual doesn't have any kind of digital preservation.

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Speaker 4: I can't look back at what we looked like yesterday

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Speaker 4: or what we talked about the day before.

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Speaker 3: I love that. I think that that's beautiful.

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Speaker 1: Well maybe that can be one of my recos this week.

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Speaker 1: Take photos of your kids aloriously.

440
00:20:56,794 --> 00:20:59,354
Speaker 3: I was into a podcast episode this week.

441
00:20:59,754 --> 00:21:01,554
Speaker 4: I'm going to do that again where my voice doesn't

442
00:21:01,554 --> 00:21:03,114
Speaker 4: break like a twelve year old.

443
00:21:05,914 --> 00:21:06,394
Speaker 1: Clip. That.

444
00:21:10,914 --> 00:21:13,274
Speaker 3: So I did. I did actually listen to a podcast episode.

445
00:21:15,794 --> 00:21:17,234
Speaker 2: This is.

446
00:21:18,194 --> 00:21:23,194
Speaker 4: Absolute disaster. Okay, anyone listened to the Ezra Cline Show.

447
00:21:23,314 --> 00:21:25,474
Speaker 4: There was an episode from last week. It is a

448
00:21:25,474 --> 00:21:29,634
Speaker 4: podcast by the New York Times. Usually it talks about politics.

449
00:21:29,754 --> 00:21:33,674
Speaker 2: I listened to this show religiously. So the answer is yes,

450
00:21:33,754 --> 00:21:35,914
Speaker 2: of course I did. And I have never listened to this.

451
00:21:36,034 --> 00:21:36,834
Speaker 2: So you need to tell me.

452
00:21:37,194 --> 00:21:38,754
Speaker 4: Like, this is the kind of thing where you'd turn

453
00:21:38,794 --> 00:21:40,714
Speaker 4: around and be like, oh yeah, Ezra Cline is like

454
00:21:40,874 --> 00:21:42,754
Speaker 4: my best friend and we see each other once or

455
00:21:42,754 --> 00:21:43,314
Speaker 4: twice a week.

456
00:21:44,114 --> 00:21:46,954
Speaker 3: Do you have any connection not that I can talk about.

457
00:21:47,354 --> 00:21:52,034
Speaker 4: Oh well, your friend Ezra on this podcast episode was

458
00:21:52,074 --> 00:21:54,833
Speaker 4: speaking to someone called Pria Parker, who wrote a book

459
00:21:54,914 --> 00:21:57,674
Speaker 4: called the Art of Gathering, which is all about the

460
00:21:57,754 --> 00:21:59,994
Speaker 4: science behind why we gather.

461
00:22:00,154 --> 00:22:01,394
Speaker 2: I've met her at a dinner party.

462
00:22:02,314 --> 00:22:03,434
Speaker 1: I have course, yeap.

463
00:22:04,754 --> 00:22:06,754
Speaker 2: She's great at a dinner party. She's an expert on

464
00:22:06,794 --> 00:22:07,594
Speaker 2: gathering you.

465
00:22:07,914 --> 00:22:11,553
Speaker 3: Actually, you would be unbelievable at a dinner party.

466
00:22:11,674 --> 00:22:14,074
Speaker 2: I'm middle. Have you heard of Larie Davis concept.

467
00:22:13,754 --> 00:22:16,394
Speaker 3: Of literally thinking about middle where you're.

468
00:22:16,234 --> 00:22:17,994
Speaker 1: Like talking to both sides of the table.

469
00:22:17,994 --> 00:22:21,073
Speaker 2: You're either a good or a bad middler. But if

470
00:22:21,114 --> 00:22:23,234
Speaker 2: you're having a dinner party, the people that you put

471
00:22:23,234 --> 00:22:25,674
Speaker 2: in the middle of the table, they have to be

472
00:22:25,874 --> 00:22:28,313
Speaker 2: firing on all cylinders. They have to hold court, they

473
00:22:28,354 --> 00:22:30,674
Speaker 2: have to be greater engaging both sides because otherwise you're

474
00:22:30,674 --> 00:22:31,354
Speaker 2: gonna have a lopside.

475
00:22:31,354 --> 00:22:33,594
Speaker 4: And they also have to be like joining up this

476
00:22:33,674 --> 00:22:34,793
Speaker 4: person with that person.

477
00:22:34,954 --> 00:22:39,354
Speaker 3: It's about you know, you guys do that. It's a middler.

478
00:22:39,474 --> 00:22:40,994
Speaker 3: Get the fuck out of here. I'm not a middler.

479
00:22:41,034 --> 00:22:43,914
Speaker 4: No no, no, no, no, I'm a I'm an introvert. I can

480
00:22:43,914 --> 00:22:46,194
Speaker 4: turn it on for ten fifteen minutes if I need to,

481
00:22:46,234 --> 00:22:47,594
Speaker 4: but then I need to go have a light down.

482
00:22:48,034 --> 00:22:50,314
Speaker 3: I could middle. It would be a huge amount of work.

483
00:22:50,474 --> 00:22:52,954
Speaker 2: Stacy's a leader. As we've learned from this podcast.

484
00:22:52,954 --> 00:22:56,074
Speaker 1: I'm the fund the table that everyone wishes they remembers,

485
00:22:56,274 --> 00:22:56,994
Speaker 1: not leaders.

486
00:22:57,114 --> 00:22:58,194
Speaker 2: It's a different quality.

487
00:22:58,354 --> 00:22:59,594
Speaker 3: No middle is like a connector.

488
00:22:59,954 --> 00:23:02,954
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, fun tangent back to So we're going to

489
00:23:03,034 --> 00:23:04,594
Speaker 4: wind it back from you had a dinner party with

490
00:23:04,634 --> 00:23:08,313
Speaker 4: pre Parker, who was on Ezra Klein's podcast. They were

491
00:23:08,354 --> 00:23:11,234
Speaker 4: discussing a very specific modern crisis, which is that we

492
00:23:11,354 --> 00:23:15,834
Speaker 4: have stopped inviting people over. Her thesis is that we've

493
00:23:15,834 --> 00:23:19,754
Speaker 4: confused hosting with performing. We've convinced ourselves that we can't

494
00:23:19,794 --> 00:23:22,394
Speaker 4: have people over unless we've you know, put out the

495
00:23:22,874 --> 00:23:25,394
Speaker 4: what's the hand wash that I can't pronounce?

496
00:23:25,634 --> 00:23:29,714
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, oh, yeah, that none of us

497
00:23:29,714 --> 00:23:31,434
Speaker 1: know the one, but we all know the one.

498
00:23:31,474 --> 00:23:32,034
Speaker 3: It's in the brow.

499
00:23:33,074 --> 00:23:36,034
Speaker 4: It costs eighty dollars for a hand wash, but it's

500
00:23:36,074 --> 00:23:38,034
Speaker 4: not the same as like det al. It's fine, the

501
00:23:38,154 --> 00:23:40,394
Speaker 4: children will be a delight, and we've cooked one of

502
00:23:40,474 --> 00:23:43,154
Speaker 4: those silly Ottolengi salads that has like three types of

503
00:23:43,194 --> 00:23:45,914
Speaker 4: citrus est in it. Priya says that we are so

504
00:23:46,074 --> 00:23:49,194
Speaker 4: your friend, prayer, that we are so terrified of being judged,

505
00:23:49,234 --> 00:23:53,114
Speaker 4: that we are choosing loneliness over inviting people into our homes.

506
00:23:53,754 --> 00:23:56,554
Speaker 4: We'd rather be isolated than imperfect.

507
00:23:56,834 --> 00:23:57,834
Speaker 2: This is so true.

508
00:23:57,994 --> 00:23:59,914
Speaker 3: Yeah, here's a little bit from that episode.

509
00:24:00,114 --> 00:24:03,674
Speaker 6: Actually that the standards not just that I have sat,

510
00:24:04,474 --> 00:24:06,634
Speaker 6: but that I feel like the culture around me sets

511
00:24:06,714 --> 00:24:08,954
Speaker 6: the people around me believe in that I believe in.

512
00:24:09,874 --> 00:24:14,033
Speaker 6: There is so much work in the house, in the schedule,

513
00:24:14,314 --> 00:24:17,434
Speaker 6: in the cooking and whatever, just to get to the

514
00:24:17,554 --> 00:24:20,154
Speaker 6: point where I feel like I can have anybody over.

515
00:24:21,154 --> 00:24:23,994
Speaker 6: But it's intimidating. It's like I want to see and

516
00:24:24,034 --> 00:24:25,794
Speaker 6: be with other human beings, to play with the kids.

517
00:24:25,834 --> 00:24:27,074
Speaker 3: It's hard to go out.

518
00:24:27,434 --> 00:24:30,313
Speaker 6: But if the expectation is it everything has to be

519
00:24:30,314 --> 00:24:33,594
Speaker 6: perfect before anybody arrives, you will never gather What do.

520
00:24:33,514 --> 00:24:36,194
Speaker 2: You guys think, Stacey, did this blow your mind? Like

521
00:24:36,234 --> 00:24:36,794
Speaker 2: a blue mind?

522
00:24:36,834 --> 00:24:40,074
Speaker 1: Loo my mind because I thought about that. Even your

523
00:24:40,114 --> 00:24:41,994
Speaker 1: best friend in the world, if you know that they're

524
00:24:41,994 --> 00:24:44,554
Speaker 1: coming over on the weekend, you're like, quick, we need

525
00:24:44,594 --> 00:24:46,554
Speaker 1: to look like we don't live here, Like you go

526
00:24:47,314 --> 00:24:49,914
Speaker 1: shoving stuff into cupboards so that you look like you're

527
00:24:49,914 --> 00:24:53,033
Speaker 1: not there. It really did blow my mind. And thinking

528
00:24:53,074 --> 00:24:55,754
Speaker 1: back to childhood, like, I'm sure you guys were the same.

529
00:24:56,234 --> 00:24:59,994
Speaker 1: Gatherings were very parent focused. They weren't child focused. They

530
00:24:59,994 --> 00:25:02,234
Speaker 1: weren't like, let's go to this playdate. It was just

531
00:25:02,594 --> 00:25:05,273
Speaker 1: you had to hang around with kids that were the

532
00:25:05,354 --> 00:25:08,313
Speaker 1: kids of your mom and dad's friends, like it was

533
00:25:08,354 --> 00:25:11,553
Speaker 1: what it was, and so there was so much of

534
00:25:11,954 --> 00:25:14,674
Speaker 1: that perfect it's just imperfect. You just have to be there.

535
00:25:14,674 --> 00:25:17,434
Speaker 1: It is what it is. Entertain yourself, it's fine. And

536
00:25:17,474 --> 00:25:20,434
Speaker 1: now it feels like we're waiting for those perfect circumstances

537
00:25:20,634 --> 00:25:21,594
Speaker 1: to ever catch up.

538
00:25:21,714 --> 00:25:25,394
Speaker 2: And some people don't fall into this trap, and I

539
00:25:25,434 --> 00:25:28,274
Speaker 2: think that they're probably happier people as a result. I'm

540
00:25:28,274 --> 00:25:31,954
Speaker 2: thinking of some friends that we have who are very

541
00:25:32,034 --> 00:25:36,554
Speaker 2: good at just inviting people over, having a pizza. It's

542
00:25:36,594 --> 00:25:39,313
Speaker 2: never an elaborate dinner. There might be a little bit

543
00:25:39,354 --> 00:25:42,833
Speaker 2: of a mess, like it's certainly not necessarily sparkling everywhere,

544
00:25:43,234 --> 00:25:46,593
Speaker 2: but they're such sociable people and they seem to have

545
00:25:46,634 --> 00:25:50,033
Speaker 2: such a wide network because they've lowered the standard for

546
00:25:50,154 --> 00:25:52,914
Speaker 2: when you can invite people over. They think these people

547
00:25:52,914 --> 00:25:54,513
Speaker 2: aren't going to judge me. They know what it's like

548
00:25:54,514 --> 00:25:56,834
Speaker 2: to be parents with a mess, and I think they're

549
00:25:56,874 --> 00:25:57,914
Speaker 2: happier as a result.

550
00:25:58,394 --> 00:26:00,314
Speaker 4: My biggest fear is that my child will be a

551
00:26:00,434 --> 00:26:02,994
Speaker 4: nightmare and misbehave, and the steps that I take in

552
00:26:03,034 --> 00:26:05,273
Speaker 4: my head, and I'm interested if this is true for

553
00:26:05,314 --> 00:26:07,793
Speaker 4: either of you is that okay? So well, I have

554
00:26:07,954 --> 00:26:10,354
Speaker 4: let's say a couple of friends over whatever they come over.

555
00:26:10,794 --> 00:26:13,834
Speaker 4: If my child is a nightmare, that will be disruptive.

556
00:26:14,074 --> 00:26:16,554
Speaker 4: I will then have to go and deal with the child,

557
00:26:16,674 --> 00:26:19,434
Speaker 4: and then my friends will be sort of sitting there awkwardly,

558
00:26:19,794 --> 00:26:22,553
Speaker 4: and then I will sort of be away dealing with

559
00:26:22,594 --> 00:26:24,754
Speaker 4: the child, and they won't know whether to help or

560
00:26:24,794 --> 00:26:26,834
Speaker 4: whether to wait for me to come back. And I

561
00:26:27,034 --> 00:26:29,994
Speaker 4: overthink to that extent, And that is why when I

562
00:26:30,034 --> 00:26:33,513
Speaker 4: heard this episode, I was nodding along violently, being like,

563
00:26:33,594 --> 00:26:36,394
Speaker 4: oh my god, this is so very true.

564
00:26:36,474 --> 00:26:39,354
Speaker 2: And do you think it's a particularly millennial thing. I mean,

565
00:26:39,394 --> 00:26:42,674
Speaker 2: I think that our parents' generation in Australia was very

566
00:26:42,714 --> 00:26:46,273
Speaker 2: concerned with being very tidy and having a clean house.

567
00:26:46,354 --> 00:26:48,194
Speaker 2: I remember we would have to clean the house from

568
00:26:48,194 --> 00:26:50,874
Speaker 2: top to bottom before guests came over. But I think

569
00:26:50,914 --> 00:26:53,794
Speaker 2: for millennials it goes even deeper. It's like a fear

570
00:26:53,834 --> 00:26:56,353
Speaker 2: that our parenting style will be judged, Like, well, if

571
00:26:56,394 --> 00:26:58,114
Speaker 2: they put the TV on, and these people are going

572
00:26:58,194 --> 00:27:00,154
Speaker 2: to say that don't wants screen time. There's so many

573
00:27:00,154 --> 00:27:04,194
Speaker 2: more contentious issues now around die at screen time. In

574
00:27:04,234 --> 00:27:06,474
Speaker 2: addition to this, sort of idea that we want the

575
00:27:06,474 --> 00:27:07,114
Speaker 2: house to be clear.

576
00:27:07,474 --> 00:27:09,833
Speaker 4: This is a boring answer, but I think that social

577
00:27:09,834 --> 00:27:12,394
Speaker 4: media has a lot to answer for what social media

578
00:27:12,474 --> 00:27:15,033
Speaker 4: got to do with this, Like when our parents were

579
00:27:15,034 --> 00:27:18,634
Speaker 4: growing up and when they were parenting, social media wasn't

580
00:27:18,634 --> 00:27:21,874
Speaker 4: as pervasive. And on social media, obviously, we usually only

581
00:27:21,874 --> 00:27:24,194
Speaker 4: see the best side of these things. We see clean houses,

582
00:27:24,194 --> 00:27:29,114
Speaker 4: we see well behaved children, we see neat social interactions.

583
00:27:28,434 --> 00:27:30,274
Speaker 3: That go really nicely curated.

584
00:27:30,554 --> 00:27:33,274
Speaker 4: It's so curated, it's the best bits, Like I think

585
00:27:33,314 --> 00:27:35,474
Speaker 4: I even said that on the show last week. And

586
00:27:35,554 --> 00:27:40,114
Speaker 4: so the millennial generation exactly as you say, Amelia, has

587
00:27:40,194 --> 00:27:42,434
Speaker 4: been brought up with that as the norm, Like that's

588
00:27:42,474 --> 00:27:45,114
Speaker 4: the context and the culture that they're consuming, and so

589
00:27:45,514 --> 00:27:48,834
Speaker 4: it is so much more quote unquote weird when you

590
00:27:48,914 --> 00:27:52,474
Speaker 4: go over to someone's house and it's messy and their

591
00:27:52,514 --> 00:27:55,793
Speaker 4: dogs barking heaps, and you know their kids are in

592
00:27:55,834 --> 00:27:57,834
Speaker 4: a really bad mood and winging.

593
00:27:57,994 --> 00:28:00,474
Speaker 1: But maybe we're putting more pressure on it because we're

594
00:28:00,474 --> 00:28:02,714
Speaker 1: doing it so rarely. So if you were doing that

595
00:28:02,754 --> 00:28:04,474
Speaker 1: with your friends all the time and they were there

596
00:28:04,514 --> 00:28:06,714
Speaker 1: all the time, there'd be points for your daughter, would

597
00:28:06,714 --> 00:28:08,554
Speaker 1: be great points where your daughter would not be having

598
00:28:08,554 --> 00:28:11,034
Speaker 1: a great day. And that's all seen on a spectrum.

599
00:28:11,114 --> 00:28:13,394
Speaker 1: You're putting so much pressure, like we all do, put

600
00:28:13,434 --> 00:28:15,994
Speaker 1: so much pressure because you go, it's this one time,

601
00:28:16,114 --> 00:28:18,874
Speaker 1: we might have those people over in six months, and

602
00:28:18,914 --> 00:28:21,634
Speaker 1: it's almost like that friction maxing that's everywhere. Like I

603
00:28:21,634 --> 00:28:23,634
Speaker 1: think they spoke about it on Mummy Are Out Loud.

604
00:28:23,634 --> 00:28:25,834
Speaker 1: I think it was last month. That's a big trend now.

605
00:28:26,034 --> 00:28:29,234
Speaker 1: We don't want to be around you know, your friend's

606
00:28:29,514 --> 00:28:32,754
Speaker 1: weird wife, or you don't want your child to misbehave

607
00:28:32,834 --> 00:28:35,154
Speaker 1: when there's other people there, So we just go unless

608
00:28:35,194 --> 00:28:36,914
Speaker 1: it's going to be perfect, we're not doing it. And

609
00:28:36,954 --> 00:28:39,314
Speaker 1: that's what's leading to the loneliness part. We're just not

610
00:28:39,634 --> 00:28:41,074
Speaker 1: seeing people as much anymore.

611
00:28:41,114 --> 00:28:45,114
Speaker 2: I found this a really inspiring chat that Priya had

612
00:28:45,154 --> 00:28:48,474
Speaker 2: with Ezra my friends. That's why I'm using their first names.

613
00:28:48,874 --> 00:28:52,634
Speaker 2: And one thing Pria said really grabbed me. She was like,

614
00:28:53,474 --> 00:28:56,674
Speaker 2: just have people over on a weeknight and give them

615
00:28:56,714 --> 00:28:59,394
Speaker 2: pizza and don't overthink it. And I thought, I think

616
00:28:59,434 --> 00:29:01,474
Speaker 2: I can do that. Yeah, I think I can do that.

617
00:29:01,474 --> 00:29:04,754
Speaker 4: That's a manageable step, right, And to Stacy's point, it's

618
00:29:04,874 --> 00:29:07,034
Speaker 4: like we sort of need to undo the catch twenty two,

619
00:29:07,674 --> 00:29:09,874
Speaker 4: because the catch twenty two is we do it so rarely,

620
00:29:09,954 --> 00:29:11,954
Speaker 4: so there's heaps of pressure on it. So we do

621
00:29:12,034 --> 00:29:14,394
Speaker 4: it so rarely, and so if we just take that

622
00:29:14,474 --> 00:29:17,714
Speaker 4: baby step and have people over and accept that it's

623
00:29:17,754 --> 00:29:21,474
Speaker 4: probably going to be chaotic and bathe in that, and

624
00:29:21,474 --> 00:29:24,394
Speaker 4: we keep doing that more often, then becomes less pressure

625
00:29:24,394 --> 00:29:25,834
Speaker 4: on it. It's easy to have them over. You don't

626
00:29:25,834 --> 00:29:27,474
Speaker 4: have to prep peeps and so on and so forth.

627
00:29:27,794 --> 00:29:30,714
Speaker 1: Okay, so when are you guys coming over tomorrow? Well,

628
00:29:30,714 --> 00:29:31,634
Speaker 1: my house will be a mess.

629
00:29:31,754 --> 00:29:32,954
Speaker 2: How much do you do it?

630
00:29:33,754 --> 00:29:36,194
Speaker 1: I've started to do it more, but I would say

631
00:29:36,234 --> 00:29:39,674
Speaker 1: it is more child focused, like I'm doing it as

632
00:29:39,794 --> 00:29:41,754
Speaker 1: playdates for my child. But as I was saying, like

633
00:29:41,754 --> 00:29:43,474
Speaker 1: when you grow up, it was kind of just you

634
00:29:43,554 --> 00:29:44,914
Speaker 1: got dragged here, there and everywhere.

635
00:29:44,914 --> 00:29:47,474
Speaker 2: Well that's a good point. Yeah, that idea that we

636
00:29:47,594 --> 00:29:49,754
Speaker 2: used to just be like under the table at the

637
00:29:49,874 --> 00:29:53,994
Speaker 2: adults dinner party, and now schedule focus playdates.

638
00:29:54,074 --> 00:29:56,194
Speaker 4: It's also like schedules like don't come over at seven

639
00:29:56,234 --> 00:29:57,954
Speaker 4: because the child needs to go to sleep then and

640
00:29:57,994 --> 00:30:00,514
Speaker 4: we need to wind them down. And to your point, oh,

641
00:30:00,554 --> 00:30:02,074
Speaker 4: we need to go and make sure that they have

642
00:30:02,114 --> 00:30:03,714
Speaker 4: someone to play with. We can't bring them there if

643
00:30:03,714 --> 00:30:05,194
Speaker 4: there's going to be no one to play with. Whereas

644
00:30:05,234 --> 00:30:06,234
Speaker 4: that wasn't a thought.

645
00:30:06,194 --> 00:30:09,594
Speaker 2: For it wasn't and I think modeling for children that

646
00:30:09,674 --> 00:30:11,874
Speaker 2: you can just be hanging out with people in a

647
00:30:11,874 --> 00:30:13,634
Speaker 2: low pressure way, it is probably really important. There was

648
00:30:13,674 --> 00:30:16,634
Speaker 2: a study that was recently talked about in a New

649
00:30:16,714 --> 00:30:20,914
Speaker 2: York Times article that basically said the more active your parents'

650
00:30:20,994 --> 00:30:25,074
Speaker 2: social life was, the more vibrant and healthy your social

651
00:30:25,114 --> 00:30:27,634
Speaker 2: life is likely to be. And that's it's kind of

652
00:30:27,634 --> 00:30:30,914
Speaker 2: an intuitive finding. It basically means your kids are watching you,

653
00:30:31,434 --> 00:30:33,834
Speaker 2: and they're seeing how you interact with the wider world,

654
00:30:33,874 --> 00:30:35,354
Speaker 2: and they're following your cue.

655
00:30:35,674 --> 00:30:38,154
Speaker 1: That actually did blow my mind though, Like that actually

656
00:30:38,314 --> 00:30:40,474
Speaker 1: was like, what the are you doing? Just have your

657
00:30:40,474 --> 00:30:42,234
Speaker 1: house be slightly message.

658
00:30:41,954 --> 00:30:44,754
Speaker 4: Good, look at yourself it's okay, yeah, just have people

659
00:30:44,794 --> 00:30:46,874
Speaker 4: over heaps and just like take the pressure.

660
00:30:46,914 --> 00:30:48,874
Speaker 1: But I do get what you mean about wanting Luna

661
00:30:48,954 --> 00:30:49,914
Speaker 1: to perform.

662
00:30:49,594 --> 00:30:50,274
Speaker 3: Because I'm ter.

663
00:30:53,154 --> 00:30:55,394
Speaker 4: All the time, and I'm like, we need to sort

664
00:30:55,434 --> 00:30:57,674
Speaker 4: that out. Like that's going to be really annoying with

665
00:30:57,754 --> 00:30:58,954
Speaker 4: the I don't have time.

666
00:30:58,874 --> 00:31:01,114
Speaker 1: But I just I would catastrophize and be like, but

667
00:31:01,194 --> 00:31:03,314
Speaker 1: she'll melt down and dada dad it out and be

668
00:31:03,314 --> 00:31:05,554
Speaker 1: like she's actually fine, like it was fine.

669
00:31:05,314 --> 00:31:08,474
Speaker 3: But she does melt No one cares. It's going to

670
00:31:08,474 --> 00:31:09,434
Speaker 3: be like, It'll be okay.

671
00:31:09,554 --> 00:31:14,474
Speaker 1: I love when someone else's kid Misbehavessey's.

672
00:31:12,834 --> 00:31:13,994
Speaker 2: Soothing to hear another time.

673
00:31:14,354 --> 00:31:16,794
Speaker 1: Do you hear another child cry because you go great

674
00:31:16,874 --> 00:31:17,274
Speaker 1: your kid?

675
00:31:17,674 --> 00:31:19,834
Speaker 3: You guys are weird. I don't have that, No love it.

676
00:31:19,994 --> 00:31:22,114
Speaker 1: Bring it on. The worst behave they are, the more

677
00:31:22,114 --> 00:31:22,914
Speaker 1: calm I feel.

678
00:31:23,074 --> 00:31:26,634
Speaker 4: So we try before the next show, we each try

679
00:31:26,674 --> 00:31:28,034
Speaker 4: and do this gathering.

680
00:31:28,754 --> 00:31:31,034
Speaker 2: Frankly, I'm married to someone who would have a party

681
00:31:31,114 --> 00:31:33,394
Speaker 2: every night, so this is not going to be a

682
00:31:33,434 --> 00:31:34,034
Speaker 2: stretch for me.

683
00:31:34,194 --> 00:31:36,834
Speaker 1: Mine's the opposite. Mine would rather we just never leave

684
00:31:36,874 --> 00:31:37,754
Speaker 1: the house ever again.

685
00:31:38,794 --> 00:31:42,914
Speaker 4: Challenge this is hard for us, especially for me.

686
00:31:43,674 --> 00:31:45,994
Speaker 1: Okay, it's time for our recos where we'll tell you

687
00:31:46,074 --> 00:31:47,514
Speaker 1: all the things we're loving this week.

688
00:31:49,394 --> 00:31:53,394
Speaker 2: So excited for mine. So I was just on a

689
00:31:53,434 --> 00:31:58,914
Speaker 2: seventeen hour fly, which I don't recommend, but it was

690
00:31:59,034 --> 00:32:04,314
Speaker 2: actually super fun because I watched the best show which

691
00:32:04,394 --> 00:32:07,434
Speaker 2: I'm so excited to talk about. It is called All

692
00:32:07,514 --> 00:32:09,834
Speaker 2: Her Fault. It is an eight part thriller that you

693
00:32:09,874 --> 00:32:12,114
Speaker 2: can watch on binge or you can watch it on

694
00:32:12,114 --> 00:32:14,714
Speaker 2: a seventeen hour flight up to you. It has Sarah

695
00:32:14,794 --> 00:32:19,394
Speaker 2: Snook from Secession, the red headed Australian.

696
00:32:18,994 --> 00:32:21,354
Speaker 1: Who oh yes, say it again?

697
00:32:21,434 --> 00:32:23,514
Speaker 2: What did you say? I always pronounce it wrong?

698
00:32:23,594 --> 00:32:24,514
Speaker 3: What's the show called?

699
00:32:25,034 --> 00:32:26,194
Speaker 2: Don't make me say?

700
00:32:26,194 --> 00:32:28,914
Speaker 1: It is the way you say? It's so much fancier though,

701
00:32:28,954 --> 00:32:30,074
Speaker 1: this is so not you.

702
00:32:30,314 --> 00:32:31,754
Speaker 3: I'm so surprised by this.

703
00:32:31,954 --> 00:32:33,474
Speaker 2: Wait because I'm mispronouncing it.

704
00:32:33,554 --> 00:32:35,154
Speaker 3: Well, maybe I don't know what I heard? What did

705
00:32:35,154 --> 00:32:36,274
Speaker 3: I hear? What's the show called?

706
00:32:36,674 --> 00:32:39,234
Speaker 2: I already have a complex? It's a show that's based

707
00:32:39,274 --> 00:32:43,674
Speaker 2: on the Murdocks. That's I'm not going to say, suck session.

708
00:32:46,034 --> 00:32:49,194
Speaker 2: Sarah Snook's character is a busy working mum and the

709
00:32:49,194 --> 00:32:53,394
Speaker 2: premises this show is terrifying. She goes to collect her

710
00:32:53,394 --> 00:32:55,994
Speaker 2: five year old from a playdate, but the woman who

711
00:32:56,034 --> 00:32:58,954
Speaker 2: answers the door at the playdate doesn't know anything about

712
00:32:58,994 --> 00:33:02,674
Speaker 2: the playdate, and so basically the show is about trying

713
00:33:02,674 --> 00:33:06,034
Speaker 2: to find her son. And it also has Dakota Fanning

714
00:33:06,114 --> 00:33:08,794
Speaker 2: and Jake Lacey, who was in Girls but is now

715
00:33:08,834 --> 00:33:10,754
Speaker 2: old enough to play a stressed out dad which in

716
00:33:10,794 --> 00:33:11,954
Speaker 2: itself made me feel old.

717
00:33:12,074 --> 00:33:15,354
Speaker 1: He's also in white Lotus. He is, Yes, that's right.

718
00:33:15,674 --> 00:33:18,674
Speaker 2: I think he's very some, but he always plays terrible people.

719
00:33:19,154 --> 00:33:21,954
Speaker 2: So look, the premise is obviously extremely stressful, it will

720
00:33:22,074 --> 00:33:25,674
Speaker 2: keep you clicking next episode, but it's also an incredibly

721
00:33:25,714 --> 00:33:29,314
Speaker 2: thoughtful show about family dynamics. It's all about the pressures

722
00:33:29,354 --> 00:33:32,394
Speaker 2: on mothers in particular and the judgment they get, and

723
00:33:32,634 --> 00:33:36,034
Speaker 2: the story of this missing child is also a story

724
00:33:36,154 --> 00:33:39,714
Speaker 2: about the mental load that parents have to carry, and

725
00:33:39,714 --> 00:33:42,834
Speaker 2: in particular often mothers have to carry, and I just

726
00:33:42,874 --> 00:33:46,674
Speaker 2: found it a really powerful investigation of that concept in

727
00:33:46,674 --> 00:33:48,554
Speaker 2: addition to being a nail biting thriller.

728
00:33:48,714 --> 00:33:50,594
Speaker 1: I absolutely loved it, like it's.

729
00:33:50,434 --> 00:33:53,194
Speaker 4: So good, Like okay, Well, that gives me some context

730
00:33:53,194 --> 00:33:54,674
Speaker 4: because I was going to say, do you think this

731
00:33:54,834 --> 00:33:57,354
Speaker 4: is a real love that you had for this show?

732
00:33:57,514 --> 00:33:59,194
Speaker 4: Because I have a theory that anything you watch on

733
00:33:59,194 --> 00:34:00,994
Speaker 4: a plane you view through different glasses.

734
00:34:01,274 --> 00:34:03,594
Speaker 2: Oh like good glasses or bad glasses.

735
00:34:03,634 --> 00:34:05,674
Speaker 4: It's a very different experience. It depends what like a

736
00:34:05,674 --> 00:34:07,074
Speaker 4: state of mind you're in a plane.

737
00:34:07,234 --> 00:34:09,913
Speaker 2: I watched The New Naked Gun on the plane, and

738
00:34:10,074 --> 00:34:12,674
Speaker 2: because I'd had a glass of red wine, started to

739
00:34:12,754 --> 00:34:14,394
Speaker 2: cry at a climactic scene.

740
00:34:14,514 --> 00:34:15,954
Speaker 3: I cry in every movie on a plane.

741
00:34:16,034 --> 00:34:18,873
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's been science on that, and apparently it's something

742
00:34:18,914 --> 00:34:21,354
Speaker 2: to do with like add altitude, your emotions are heightened.

743
00:34:21,674 --> 00:34:23,873
Speaker 3: So is this a real reco or is this a

744
00:34:23,874 --> 00:34:24,514
Speaker 3: plane wreco?

745
00:34:24,714 --> 00:34:26,873
Speaker 2: You know, it's a good question. But Stacy also loves it.

746
00:34:27,114 --> 00:34:29,274
Speaker 1: I was not on a plane, but I watched it

747
00:34:29,434 --> 00:34:31,674
Speaker 1: during summer holidays and absolutely.

748
00:34:31,194 --> 00:34:35,073
Speaker 2: And also Sarah's snook. She's just the best. I would

749
00:34:35,074 --> 00:34:37,553
Speaker 2: watch her read the phone booker. American accent is so good.

750
00:34:37,674 --> 00:34:41,554
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, that's great. But did you have another record

751
00:34:41,794 --> 00:34:42,914
Speaker 4: that you wanted to talk about?

752
00:34:44,874 --> 00:34:48,394
Speaker 2: Okay, so a little bit of story time is before

753
00:34:48,634 --> 00:34:52,594
Speaker 2: this reco came about, my reco was riding a horse,

754
00:34:54,954 --> 00:34:57,714
Speaker 2: just because I went on a girl's trip and had

755
00:34:57,754 --> 00:35:01,634
Speaker 2: the opportunity to ride a horse. And you know what,

756
00:35:01,714 --> 00:35:04,274
Speaker 2: it's very good. I see why humans have been doing

757
00:35:04,314 --> 00:35:07,913
Speaker 2: that for millennia. They are majestic creatures. And I loved

758
00:35:07,954 --> 00:35:09,954
Speaker 2: feeling the wind in my hair. Any question, you're.

759
00:35:09,794 --> 00:35:12,194
Speaker 3: Still used to wearing your horse riding shoes.

760
00:35:14,034 --> 00:35:14,873
Speaker 2: Did you do this on.

761
00:35:14,874 --> 00:35:18,434
Speaker 1: Like a beach or a pad in a forest?

762
00:35:19,314 --> 00:35:22,274
Speaker 2: I just felt very regal. And graceful as I'm sure

763
00:35:22,354 --> 00:35:26,393
Speaker 2: I looked on the horse, and I guess I wanted

764
00:35:26,434 --> 00:35:28,754
Speaker 2: to turn it into an allegory about risk taking as

765
00:35:28,754 --> 00:35:32,714
Speaker 2: an adult, but I don't know. You've probably ridden a

766
00:35:32,714 --> 00:35:33,314
Speaker 2: horse before.

767
00:35:35,194 --> 00:35:36,674
Speaker 1: Allergic. I'm very allergic.

768
00:35:38,114 --> 00:35:42,194
Speaker 2: Yeah, horses. That's another reason why you're like a royal.

769
00:35:42,234 --> 00:35:44,234
Speaker 2: We've often talked on the show about the fact.

770
00:35:44,034 --> 00:35:45,794
Speaker 3: That you look like white shirt.

771
00:35:45,834 --> 00:35:48,674
Speaker 4: Were you comfortable, like you could steer the horse and everything,

772
00:35:48,794 --> 00:35:51,354
Speaker 4: or did you need to? Like that's sad anything, So

773
00:35:51,394 --> 00:35:53,114
Speaker 4: that sad thing when they were like leading your horse

774
00:35:53,154 --> 00:35:53,634
Speaker 4: for yes.

775
00:35:53,594 --> 00:35:55,514
Speaker 2: And I think they'd given me the horse that was

776
00:35:55,594 --> 00:35:58,354
Speaker 2: like the most patient horse, because at first I was like,

777
00:35:58,394 --> 00:36:00,114
Speaker 2: I'm simply not doing this your mother.

778
00:36:00,354 --> 00:36:02,553
Speaker 4: It's like so they were the guy I was leading it,

779
00:36:02,674 --> 00:36:04,434
Speaker 4: and it was like a kid at a like a

780
00:36:04,674 --> 00:36:05,594
Speaker 4: one of those carnivals.

781
00:36:05,714 --> 00:36:08,473
Speaker 2: When you put it that way, I suppose it was

782
00:36:08,554 --> 00:36:10,474
Speaker 2: like a kid at a carnival. But I like to

783
00:36:10,514 --> 00:36:14,474
Speaker 2: embrace my childlike side. Anyway, What the hell is your recommendation?

784
00:36:14,834 --> 00:36:18,354
Speaker 2: Because on the script it says AI playlists.

785
00:36:17,634 --> 00:36:19,354
Speaker 3: Do you guys listen to Spotify? I assume you listen

786
00:36:19,354 --> 00:36:21,553
Speaker 3: to music on Spotify. I heard of it, Yeah, big

787
00:36:21,594 --> 00:36:24,594
Speaker 3: tech company, so to us. So I am. I'm in

788
00:36:24,594 --> 00:36:26,914
Speaker 3: a music rut in my life. I'm really bad with music.

789
00:36:26,954 --> 00:36:29,554
Speaker 4: I usually always listen to podcasts, and then when I

790
00:36:29,594 --> 00:36:31,714
Speaker 4: need a break from podcasts, I go and like listen

791
00:36:31,754 --> 00:36:36,354
Speaker 4: to my liked from radio on Spotify playlist, where it

792
00:36:36,394 --> 00:36:38,274
Speaker 4: automates the songs that I play lots, and it's like

793
00:36:38,314 --> 00:36:40,994
Speaker 4: this chaotic hodgepodge of like some songs from when I

794
00:36:40,994 --> 00:36:44,314
Speaker 4: was growing up as a kid, with like some twenty tens,

795
00:36:44,434 --> 00:36:48,953
Speaker 4: like embarrassing crim stuff. Anyway, Spotify, I've released an AI

796
00:36:49,034 --> 00:36:52,514
Speaker 4: feature called dj It's happening in DJX is here with

797
00:36:52,674 --> 00:36:55,114
Speaker 4: jams at shows just for you, gonna kick it off

798
00:36:55,114 --> 00:36:56,354
Speaker 4: with some music you've been listening to.

799
00:36:56,554 --> 00:36:59,594
Speaker 2: I hate this so much. I think writing for but

800
00:36:59,834 --> 00:37:04,114
Speaker 2: is a much better recommendation than using some AI playlist

801
00:37:04,194 --> 00:37:04,994
Speaker 2: on Spotify.

802
00:37:05,034 --> 00:37:06,674
Speaker 3: You didn't ride a horse, You went on a horse.

803
00:37:07,194 --> 00:37:10,834
Speaker 4: The Spotify playlist is such a good example of hey

804
00:37:10,834 --> 00:37:13,154
Speaker 4: are doing good. Because I don't have time to go

805
00:37:13,194 --> 00:37:16,114
Speaker 4: and curate my music feed in real time. My Spotify

806
00:37:16,154 --> 00:37:18,354
Speaker 4: is not organized. I'm not a music guy. This will

807
00:37:18,434 --> 00:37:20,594
Speaker 4: just go. I will hit play on this and it

808
00:37:20,594 --> 00:37:23,794
Speaker 4: will go. The accent's quite American, but it'll be like, hey, luka,

809
00:37:24,594 --> 00:37:27,314
Speaker 4: kicking it off with some stuff you were listening to

810
00:37:27,474 --> 00:37:28,354
Speaker 4: in twenty eighteen.

811
00:37:28,554 --> 00:37:32,114
Speaker 5: And then it'll play stuff that IOK, that was not

812
00:37:32,274 --> 00:37:34,194
Speaker 5: Sarah's snook level accent work.

813
00:37:34,394 --> 00:37:40,114
Speaker 4: Sarah Snock, she was in that show Secession. It's so

814
00:37:40,274 --> 00:37:42,314
Speaker 4: good and like, sometimes it'll do stuff that I love,

815
00:37:42,394 --> 00:37:44,514
Speaker 4: and sometimes it'll do stuff that's close to stuff I

816
00:37:44,514 --> 00:37:47,953
Speaker 4: love that I discover and it's new and it's outstanding.

817
00:37:47,994 --> 00:37:49,794
Speaker 1: No, I love it. I'm going to go and use it.

818
00:37:49,874 --> 00:37:50,674
Speaker 1: I love. Yeah.

819
00:37:50,674 --> 00:37:54,554
Speaker 2: I playlist it could be team being on a horse.

820
00:37:54,274 --> 00:37:57,194
Speaker 1: Because I just put on my same playlist every single time,

821
00:37:57,314 --> 00:37:58,314
Speaker 1: Like I someone.

822
00:37:58,114 --> 00:37:58,714
Speaker 2: What have you got?

823
00:37:58,834 --> 00:38:01,314
Speaker 1: What have you got that I've recommended on this show before?

824
00:38:01,394 --> 00:38:03,433
Speaker 1: My girly pop songs that make me want to kick

825
00:38:03,474 --> 00:38:05,314
Speaker 1: it all down, which is my own playlist.

826
00:38:05,314 --> 00:38:07,634
Speaker 2: I should send that to you, But what's your recommend

827
00:38:08,274 --> 00:38:11,194
Speaker 2: Because I think you've got two very drastic paths ahead

828
00:38:11,234 --> 00:38:13,714
Speaker 2: of you, whether you choose nature and touching grass, or

829
00:38:13,714 --> 00:38:16,834
Speaker 2: whether you choose a future in which robots determine which

830
00:38:16,914 --> 00:38:18,034
Speaker 2: music we like. According to.

831
00:38:20,074 --> 00:38:23,594
Speaker 1: Betterment, it's better than both of those combined. This weekend,

832
00:38:23,834 --> 00:38:27,074
Speaker 1: I watched Glitter and Gold ice dancing.

833
00:38:29,034 --> 00:38:30,554
Speaker 2: Is this related to heated rivalry?

834
00:38:30,594 --> 00:38:33,994
Speaker 1: No, it's not. No, actually no it's not.

835
00:38:34,234 --> 00:38:34,314
Speaker 4: No.

836
00:38:34,394 --> 00:38:36,674
Speaker 1: One's in love on the on the ice one couple

837
00:38:36,754 --> 00:38:39,194
Speaker 1: is No. This is a three part dot or Netflix

838
00:38:39,274 --> 00:38:42,874
Speaker 1: about three of the teams competing in the Winter Olympics, Okay,

839
00:38:42,994 --> 00:38:45,514
Speaker 1: which I was like, I don't care. And then I

840
00:38:45,554 --> 00:38:49,114
Speaker 1: saw five minutes of the ice dancing and immediately was like, Oh,

841
00:38:49,274 --> 00:38:52,154
Speaker 1: drop their leg a bit on that turn. Oh no,

842
00:38:52,234 --> 00:38:55,473
Speaker 1: there was too much ice shards across. No, they'll get

843
00:38:55,554 --> 00:38:58,434
Speaker 1: deducted for that. I became an expert. A friend Nicole,

844
00:38:58,554 --> 00:39:00,953
Speaker 1: recommended this show and I binged it all in one.

845
00:39:01,114 --> 00:39:03,913
Speaker 1: So it's the American team, the Canadian team, and the

846
00:39:03,954 --> 00:39:06,393
Speaker 1: French team. French team a controversy.

847
00:39:06,394 --> 00:39:09,594
Speaker 2: This is giving, but they think they're a comedic movie

848
00:39:09,634 --> 00:39:11,994
Speaker 2: with this premise. Blades of flossplads of glory.

849
00:39:12,314 --> 00:39:16,834
Speaker 1: It's like that, but deadly serious, Like they are very serious.

850
00:39:18,114 --> 00:39:20,834
Speaker 5: In a nice stance. You need to have the skill,

851
00:39:21,714 --> 00:39:24,913
Speaker 5: you need to have the rape partner, but at the

852
00:39:24,994 --> 00:39:27,433
Speaker 5: end of the day, you need curb appeal because who

853
00:39:27,434 --> 00:39:30,594
Speaker 5: really gives a if you can't do a good red.

854
00:39:30,474 --> 00:39:34,594
Speaker 1: Lip so one couple of friends. The other couple are married,

855
00:39:34,674 --> 00:39:37,354
Speaker 1: have been skating together since they were teenagers, and another

856
00:39:37,394 --> 00:39:40,514
Speaker 1: one gets controversially put together when another one of their

857
00:39:40,554 --> 00:39:44,393
Speaker 1: partners gets benned from ice skating. Never find out why,

858
00:39:44,554 --> 00:39:47,874
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. There's stuff about this drama about a skirt

859
00:39:48,234 --> 00:39:50,354
Speaker 1: will they or won't they step on it while they're

860
00:39:50,354 --> 00:39:53,314
Speaker 1: doing their ice skating. It's just great. Like you see

861
00:39:53,314 --> 00:39:56,114
Speaker 1: how contentious the scoring system is as well, which will

862
00:39:56,114 --> 00:39:57,234
Speaker 1: make you a bit mad.

863
00:39:57,474 --> 00:40:00,634
Speaker 4: I must admit I am struggling to get invested in

864
00:40:00,674 --> 00:40:01,674
Speaker 4: the Winter Olympics.

865
00:40:01,674 --> 00:40:04,873
Speaker 2: You know, we can hear you in comison if you

866
00:40:04,954 --> 00:40:06,994
Speaker 2: say it quiet, It doesn't care.

867
00:40:07,154 --> 00:40:10,473
Speaker 4: It's in comparison to its summer brethren. You know, I'm

868
00:40:10,514 --> 00:40:12,393
Speaker 4: just really having a hard time, are you.

869
00:40:12,514 --> 00:40:17,754
Speaker 1: Kidd Is have brethren there right watching them fling themselves.

870
00:40:17,794 --> 00:40:20,434
Speaker 4: The only things that have broken through is something about

871
00:40:20,434 --> 00:40:24,714
Speaker 4: skiers injecting their penises and the woman who dislocated.

872
00:40:24,074 --> 00:40:26,714
Speaker 3: A hip or me, what more do you they got injured,

873
00:40:26,714 --> 00:40:27,114
Speaker 3: that's all.

874
00:40:27,114 --> 00:40:29,234
Speaker 1: I've got people riding horses And I.

875
00:40:29,194 --> 00:40:30,834
Speaker 4: Went to go and try and watch it the other night,

876
00:40:30,874 --> 00:40:32,354
Speaker 4: and they sat down and I thought, I'm going to

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00:40:32,394 --> 00:40:32,873
Speaker 4: give this a go.

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00:40:33,114 --> 00:40:34,394
Speaker 3: And the only thing on was curling.

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00:40:34,514 --> 00:40:36,393
Speaker 1: Okay, well watch this then, which is.

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00:40:36,314 --> 00:40:38,514
Speaker 4: When they roll like a hockey puck and they sweep

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00:40:38,554 --> 00:40:39,674
Speaker 4: with a broom in front of it.

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00:40:40,554 --> 00:40:44,034
Speaker 2: Stacy always brings us together. Thanks for that recundation, Stacy,

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00:40:44,114 --> 00:40:44,754
Speaker 2: You're welcome.

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00:40:45,194 --> 00:40:48,034
Speaker 1: Well that's all we've got time for on Parenting out Loud.

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00:40:48,434 --> 00:40:51,994
Speaker 1: Thank you to our amazing team. Junior content producer Tesa Kotovich,

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00:40:52,154 --> 00:40:54,914
Speaker 1: our audio producer is Leah Porges, and the group ep

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00:40:55,274 --> 00:40:57,714
Speaker 1: is Ruth Divine. Have a great week and we'll be

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00:40:57,754 --> 00:40:59,074
Speaker 1: back next Saturday morning.

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00:40:59,434 --> 00:40:59,834
Speaker 2: Bye.

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00:41:03,074 --> 00:41:06,034
Speaker 1: Muma. Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on

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Speaker 1: which we have recorded this What Else