1 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. 2 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 2: Mamma mea acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and 3 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 2: waters that this podcast is recorded on. 4 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: That period of my life was like extremely low and 5 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: extremely like a bit of a blur, but it's so powerful, 6 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: Like I feel like that was actually the turning point 7 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: in my life where I built a better relationship with myself. 8 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to But Are You Happy? The podcast 9 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 2: that asked the questions you've always wanted to know from 10 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 2: the people who appear to have it all. I'm Claire 11 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 2: Stevens and about six weeks ago I saw a video 12 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 2: I haven't been able to stop thinking about. It was 13 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 2: of twenty seven year old Australian boxer Harry Garside after 14 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 2: he lost in the first round at the Paras Olympics. Initially, 15 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 2: he cried and was unable to speak. It was as 16 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 2: though we were watching him in real time process the 17 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 2: fact that his most vivid life goal, the one he'd 18 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 2: spent his whole adult life working towards, was over. In 19 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:16,359 Speaker 2: nine minutes. He'd gone from an Olympic hopeful to feeling, 20 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 2: in his words during a postmatch interview, like a failure. 21 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,559 Speaker 2: I didn't envision this happening, He said, I could see 22 00:01:23,559 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 2: the gold medal in all the visualizations and it all 23 00:01:26,119 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 2: went wrong. With his head bowed, looking shattered, we watch 24 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 2: Garside come to terms with the significance of this loss. 25 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 2: The sun will come up tomorrow and whatever happens. But 26 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 2: I just know the next few months for myself will 27 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: be a pretty hard time, he said. I'm sure I'll 28 00:01:42,839 --> 00:01:46,039 Speaker 2: have some dark moments and I'm fucking terrified, to be honest. 29 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 2: About a month after the Games, I interviewed Harry Garside 30 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 2: about failure, about the moment he was very publicly arrested 31 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,559 Speaker 2: for something he didn't do, about the time he did 32 00:01:59,559 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 2: have a medal around his neck and was shocked to 33 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 2: find he felt empty. Harry is warm and charismatic and insightful, 34 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 2: and ultimately he's so much more than the outcome of 35 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 2: a boxing match, even one taking place at the Olympics. 36 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 2: Here's Harry Garside. I want to start by asking, did 37 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 2: you grow up in a happy family? Was happiness prioritized 38 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 2: in your home? 39 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: Oh, I've never been asked that question before. It's so 40 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 1: interesting because I guess any childhood like, there's good and 41 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: bad to it, right, my parents like they didn't have 42 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: too much money and they were raising three boys into 43 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: the Azure five and I felt distress definitely for my parents. 44 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: But we also got like a lot of opportunities, Like 45 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: we spent a lot of time in the Victorian high country, 46 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: like full driving or camping, and I think that was 47 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: really good for my growth, like being in nature and 48 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: just being very curious about the land and about things. 49 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 1: And I'm really grateful for that. But I think just 50 00:02:56,920 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: like any childhood, there's highs and lows. There's good, there's bad. 51 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: And I wouldn't say that it was it was either 52 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: happy or not happy. Like it's a good question because 53 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: it's like, I don't know if any human can ever 54 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: fully have a happy childhood, right because and it's all 55 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: it's like, if a kid did have just like a 56 00:03:12,920 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: pure happy childhood, it's like, are you doing them at disservice? 57 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: Because life's going to knock them down when they're an 58 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: adult and they've never experienced that before. It's like, are 59 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: you doing them at disservice if you don't experience the 60 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: whole range of human emassions with. 61 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 2: Them and build some resilience from like a really young 62 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 2: age in terms of your mum and dad. Do you 63 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 2: feel like they are happy people? Do they struggle with happiness? 64 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 2: Like when you were growing up and seeing your parents, 65 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 2: did you see people who approached life with a zest 66 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 2: and a joy or people who you think struggle to 67 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 2: do that? 68 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: Ooh, So I feel like I take after my dad 69 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: a fair bit, But then the older I get, I 70 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: feel like I've probably take after both of them just 71 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: as equally. But my dad. I found many moments in 72 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: my childhood where I would reflect on my dad being 73 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: like their class clown or like the one at the pub, 74 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: being the funny guy, but people often laughed at him, 75 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: not with him, And I think he felt this need 76 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: to play that character right, And I definitely felt that 77 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: for a lot of my childhood as well, like I 78 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 1: felt this need to prove myself, especially to men in 79 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: my life. And I definitely see some similarities to my dad. 80 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 1: And it's been really beautiful to sort of see his 81 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 1: growth as a human too. The more open that I 82 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: can be about being myself, it's actually encouraged him a 83 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: little bit to be that too, which has been really nice. 84 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 1: My mom's a little bit more like like staunch and 85 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: like a householdful of men. She's the only woman, and 86 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: she she's the strongest one by far, Like she rules 87 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 1: the roofs, and all the boys know that in the family, 88 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 1: Like you don't backchat mom, like you don't disrespect mom, 89 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 1: like everyone knows that. And Mom's always been very staunch, 90 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: which is just nice. So in that it was like 91 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: she was happy, of course, singly wrong, she was herself, 92 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 1: but also as well, she was like the leader of 93 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 1: the roost. So it's like we didn't really want to 94 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: like make her unhappy. 95 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 3: Or yeah, sad. 96 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. 97 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 2: I want to jump forward to the recent paras Olympics. 98 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 2: So at the end of July, your lifelong dream of 99 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 2: winning gold at the Olympics was over in just nine minutes, 100 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 2: and after the fire you collapsed onto the floor, and 101 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 2: then you gave an interview directly afterwards. That struck a 102 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 2: lot of people. So I have a group chat with 103 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 2: some of my closest friends, and one friend, who is 104 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 2: a blokey bloke didn't even know he was watching the Olympics, 105 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 2: didn't even know what he was doing, messaged us and said, 106 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 2: holy shit, have you guys seen this interview? 107 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 3: And he sent it to us and. 108 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 2: We all talked about how refreshing and moving that vulnerability was. 109 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 2: You said, two decades dedicated to one dream and it's over. 110 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 2: Just like that, I feel like I've let myself down. 111 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 2: I feel like a failure right now. I don't even 112 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 2: know what to say. I fear for what the next 113 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 2: couple of months look like for myself. Did you make 114 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 2: a conscious decision in that moment to choose vulnerability rather 115 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,280 Speaker 2: than those default athlete answers that we get. 116 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: I've always sort of tried my best to move with 117 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: authenticity and whatever comes out comes out, and I don't 118 00:06:01,840 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: always live up to that. Like sometimes you do have 119 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: to play like a little bit of a character, like 120 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: I'm not going to lay out my deepest, darkest secrets 121 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: to people that I don't know. But it's like in 122 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: that moment, I genuinely was terrified, like I have failed 123 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: a number of times in my life, or I've been 124 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: through like a breakup, or like my family, I've had problems, 125 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: and it's like just seeing the things that I turned 126 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: to in those moments, like I was genuinely terrified, like 127 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: this meant so much to me, and it's almost like 128 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: I felt those emotions. I went out the back where 129 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: there's no cameras around, and I like, howed, I haven't 130 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: cried like that in a long time. And I think 131 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: it's almost like my body just took over. It's like 132 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: full and self preservation mode right now. Like I wouldn't 133 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: say I'm feeling emotions too much right now, and I 134 00:06:41,840 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 1: think there's like this little safety kind of mechanism going 135 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: on that it's like trying to protect me. And I've 136 00:06:47,280 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: said when this book too is done, I'm doing a 137 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: little book tour at the moment, and when I can 138 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: have it a free time, I'm going to do like 139 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: four or five days in nature and get the phone, 140 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: put it in my car, not touch it, and just 141 00:06:57,280 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: be by myself and who knows what will come up, 142 00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 1: but create the space for something to come up. And 143 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 1: it might be happiness. It might be joy. It might 144 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 1: be like, oh, thank God that Olympic journey's over. Yeah, 145 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: Or it might be sadness and anger and frustration with myself. 146 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: I'm not sure, bro, I want to create that space. 147 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 2: It's interesting you said in another interview that you felt 148 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 2: really numb, and I agree that sometimes when something really 149 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 2: challenging happens, it's like you'll almost go into that self 150 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 2: preservation mode, and I reckon you go into it for 151 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 2: a while and once you come out of it, you've 152 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 2: actually healed, but you weren't even conscious that you were healing. 153 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 2: How does the loss sit with you now? Like I 154 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 2: know you said you're not kind of feeling all the emotions, 155 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 2: but day to day are you feeling better or worse 156 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 2: than you thought you would? 157 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: It's interesting. I think if I lost five years ago, 158 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: my answer would be completely different. But I think I 159 00:07:55,920 --> 00:08:00,040 Speaker 1: have really worked on my identity outside of boxing, Like 160 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: my whole life, my identity was consumed with that of 161 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: only being a boxer and I the win. I felt 162 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: the win. I was like, yes, I'm the man. The loss, 163 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: I was like, it's me. I felt like a failure. 164 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: I was, And it's like, I don't know if I 165 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: ever I'll ever fully break that, like I've done it 166 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: for twenty years, right. It is very much a big 167 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: part of my identities or my whole identity though, but 168 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: I have created something outside of that, And I also 169 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: know like who I am as a person, Like boxing 170 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: is what I do, it's not who I am, and 171 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: I have been able to separate that and I'm really 172 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: grateful for that, because I do know boxing has a 173 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: shelf life and there's a funny story in the boxing world, 174 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: and it's probably all industries, but there's always those fifty 175 00:08:36,439 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: year old blocks in the path who're having a few beers. Yeah. 176 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:40,559 Speaker 1: Back in my day, I was like, go on gloves champing. 177 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: It's like they're still living on that moment forty years before, 178 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: and I don't want to be that. Like, this is 179 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: definitely the highlight of my life so far. It's taken 180 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: me all around the world and I've loved it, but 181 00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 1: it's like, this won't be the highlight of my life. 182 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 1: I want kids, I want to do more, I want 183 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: experience other things like and I'm very much not attached 184 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: to that identity anymore. So that's why I think that 185 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: it hasn't rocked me as hard as what I thought 186 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: it would. 187 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 2: What do you think you learn from those moments, like 188 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:11,719 Speaker 2: that moment of striving so hard for something and realizing 189 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 2: that there are things you can control and things you can't. 190 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 2: What do you think you learn from feeling like you failed. 191 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: The universe stops for no one? Yeah, self, feeling sorry 192 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: for yourself? 193 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah. 194 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: I mentioned this in the book The Good Fight that 195 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: just come out a little plug. But like I actually 196 00:09:28,560 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: mentioned this in the book, and I was saying, like 197 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 1: I think this world kind of fosters victim mentality. I 198 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: don't know, it's like, of course the world sucks and 199 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: it's unfair and unjust. You don't have to look too 200 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: far to see those things, like in our society and 201 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 1: then also internationally overseas we're seeing it on our phone. 202 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: But like self feeling sorry for yourself, it's like no 203 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: one's coming and it's up to you always, and don't 204 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: be wrong. Absolutely feel your emotions and be in pain, 205 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: don't suppress them. But like I get up, like let's 206 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: go on, Like it's up to you always, and of 207 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: course don't be wrong. I've also got a beautiful support network, 208 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: but it is always up to us, and we can 209 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 1: sit there and complain and feel bad for ourselves. We're 210 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: living in one of the greatest countries on earth with 211 00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: so much opportunity. Like I always think that, like the 212 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: world stops from no one keep going. 213 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 2: In the book, you write about doing a breath work 214 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 2: session and you say you had a moment of realization 215 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 2: and it was this I've spent far too long searching 216 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 2: for happiness and external sources people, success, money, girlfriends, sex, addiction, whatever. 217 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 2: I think everything I need is already within me. No, 218 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 2: I know that's the case. Off the back of the 219 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,199 Speaker 2: paras Olympics. How easy or hard is it to remember 220 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 2: that that happiness is always within you and it's not 221 00:10:43,680 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 2: about the external stuff. 222 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: It's interesting because I feel like I'm getting a massive 223 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: hug from all of Australia right now, which is quite nice. 224 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: So it actually I am getting external something. Yeah, So 225 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,559 Speaker 1: I don't know if I can answer that question truthfully 226 00:10:57,560 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: because it's like I'm feeling like I'm getting it's in 227 00:11:00,560 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: a sense, which is a weird thing. So I also 228 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: know that it is. I'd say it's fake because I 229 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: feel the love, I feel that people care, and I 230 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: feel that there's a lot of people there. But it's 231 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: like nothing outside yourself can ever change how you feel 232 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: about yourself. And I have realized that. I think I 233 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: realized that after Tokyo. So I sat with the bronze medal, 234 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: which was a success. We don't do that very often 235 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 1: in Australia, and I sat there in quarantine and had 236 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 1: the medal on my neck, and I was looking at 237 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: myself in the mirror, and I felt so unhappy. Really now, 238 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: I'm like, if that's not a sign that this isn't right? 239 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 1: And what do we do? Our society is just this 240 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 1: capitalist driven society where like you're fed your insecurities, You've 241 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: fed these things. It's achievement based. We show all these 242 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: gold medalists on the TV, and we show all these things. 243 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: We prop these CEOs and these people who are probably 244 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: just they might be successful in one thing, but like 245 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: they don't have a happy life outside of that. Like, 246 00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: I find it weird that we don't prop up like 247 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: people who work in the cancer ward almost twenty four 248 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 1: to seven, or like these people work in child hospitals 249 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: or like look after the animals. Like our society is 250 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: toxic and we just keep going and we don't care 251 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 1: about it. It's a really interesting thing. I know, I'm 252 00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: getting really passionate right now. And I play into that too, 253 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: because like I'm an athlete, Like my life's not hard, 254 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: not really doing too much for society, Like I'm not 255 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: really spending my time dedicated to helping others, but like 256 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: I get all these opportunities right. It's a weird thing. 257 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: It's a really interesting thing to sort of grapple with. 258 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 2: When you got that medal from the Tokyo Olympics and 259 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 2: you were feeling miserable, what was it? Was it stuff 260 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 2: independent of the medal? Was it stuff just in your life? 261 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: I felt like I wasn't worthy of love. I felt 262 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: like I was nothing like I felt really miserable. And 263 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: I think, whatever the belief is, whether it's true or not, 264 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: it's like you will collect the evidence that it is true. 265 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 1: That's how we work, That's how we're hardwire. So it's like, 266 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: I think for most of my life, I just kept 267 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: collecting the evidence that I wasn't good enough, that I 268 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: needed to achieve something so then I would be good enough. 269 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: And then you achieved something like I got the Comwalth 270 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: Games gold medal or my home soil my first major 271 00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: support event, and I woke up in the morning I 272 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: was like, nothing's changed, Like I'm still the same person 273 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: and I still hold these core beliefs, but I don't 274 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: feel like I'm worthy or good enough. And it's a 275 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: really interesting thing because I do also like sit this 276 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: coexist belief is like it is also the twenty year 277 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: career of striving for greatness that has made me change 278 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: my belief about myself or made me realize that I 279 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: am more, I am capable. So it's like I don't 280 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: want to say to young people that, like, hey, striving 281 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: for things is a bad thing, but it's like just 282 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: realizing that, like set big, audacious goals, but just realize 283 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: that achieving that goal won't change who you are as 284 00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 1: a person. 285 00:13:31,680 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 2: It's almost like the striving, striving is. 286 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 3: What makes you who you are. 287 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 2: But do you think sometimes achievement and as somebody who 288 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 2: has medals and has been winning things from a young age, 289 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 2: do you think sometimes achievement can like plug the self 290 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 2: esteem holes artificially like that you it's like you get 291 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 2: a medal instead of looking internally for things to feel 292 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 2: proud of. 293 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it kind of like you get like a 294 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: slap on the bump from all of society. People start 295 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: celebrating you go, oh you are so amazing, How good 296 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 1: is this? And then you you feel good. It's like 297 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: instant gratification. You feel good. It's like eating the sweet 298 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: food or like I don't having a beer. It's like 299 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: those instant gratification things like short lives. It's like really 300 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:17,319 Speaker 1: short lived and then you go back to home and 301 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: you're like, Wow, I'm lonely and I don't like my 302 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: own company, Like it's a strange reality that we can't 303 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: And I think there's this is a common experience for 304 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: many people in our society. I think I've just tried 305 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: my best. I don't think it's like a linear thing. 306 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: I don't think you just arrive at a destination and go, oh, 307 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: I'm happy. I'm contenting myself. It's like, I just want 308 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: to have more days like that more often than not. 309 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: But I find that by me collecting the evidence that 310 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: I am a good person, that I am worthy, it's 311 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: like that has changed a little belief about myself. And 312 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: nine times out of ten my days are like that now, 313 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: where I'm like, I think that I'm worthy, I think 314 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: that I'm capable, I think that I'm deserving. But it's 315 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: because I'm doing those things and I'm collecting the evidence 316 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: that I am those things. 317 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, from what you're saying, it almost feels like that 318 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 2: moment in Paris where you don't get what it is 319 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 2: that you want. Sometimes that's like a more meaningful life 320 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 2: moment because it actually clarifies that the reason you were 321 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 2: doing all of this was not for the metal, but 322 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 2: for what it would teach you along the way. Like, 323 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 2: I think it probably as much as I'm sure it 324 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 2: is heartbreaking, And me sitting here not having trained in 325 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 2: the Olympics for two decades, I'm like, it's fine, but 326 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 2: I kind of think there's got to be some profound 327 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 2: meaning in that moment. 328 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, have you ever read The Alchemist? 329 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 3: No, but I should smart people. 330 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: It's a really easy read. I'm not a smart person, 331 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: but it's one hundred and seventy pages and it's so easy. 332 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: But it's very much the story of that he goes 333 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: on a search for treasure and then he kind of 334 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: gets the treasure. He realized that. He's like, oh, this 335 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: wasn't what I was searching for. It's a weird thing, right, 336 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: Like even if I was to win that gold medal, 337 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: and then I ride this wave and it kind of 338 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: plugs a hole, and then like he is something like, wow, 339 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: I'm like depressed, Like what you know? I mean, like, 340 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: at least now I'm like, hey, my worth isn't attached 341 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: to that gold medal, Like I know that who I 342 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 1: am as a person, of course is heartbreaking. Of course 343 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: I spent two decades trying to chase that. It's like, 344 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: I know that if my friend called me, or my 345 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: brother called me, or if I saw someone on the 346 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: street struggling, I would be there to help. And that 347 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: is where I get myself worth. 348 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 2: And I think that's really important for people to be 349 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 2: aware of. And and I love what you say about 350 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 2: being an athlete or being in the public eye. You're 351 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 2: not the person working in a council ward or working 352 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 2: with sick children, because I think sometimes your ego can 353 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 2: trick you into thinking that you are actually the most 354 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 2: important thing in the world and you're better than everyone else. 355 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 3: And it would be easy to think. 356 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: That social media, Yeah, yeah, yeah, and. 357 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 2: People are just like, oh my gosh, you're amazing. You 358 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 2: must get messages every day from people just in awe 359 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 2: of you. And I think it's really important to remember 360 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 2: what it is, yeah, that you do, and also be 361 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 2: in awe of other people and what they do day 362 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 2: to day. 363 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a saying it's like, be more interested, not interesting. 364 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: Was Matthew mcconnae. 365 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 3: He's actually very I know. 366 00:17:10,919 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: I'm super wise, and I really like his story. I'm 367 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: pretty sure it's the youngest of three boys too. So yeah, 368 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:17,640 Speaker 1: I love his story. But it's so true, like I 369 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 1: actually got someone to take over my social media like 370 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: a couple of years ago now, because it's like it 371 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: was nineteen to nine percent positive like this, there is 372 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: some negative, and you probably remember the negative because that's 373 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:29,120 Speaker 1: say hard why, But like, so you read nine numbercent 374 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: positive comments about yourself, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds, it's 375 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 1: like you start thinking you're a legend. Yeah, I'm like, 376 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 1: I'm not, like, I'm not like I know, I'm not 377 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: a bad person, but it's like I'm super flawed and 378 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: like I and I don't always live up to the 379 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 1: person I want to be. I try my best, and 380 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: I think that's like most people, right, But it's like 381 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: you start reading that, you're like, yeah, I'm real good. 382 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: Let's say so good. 383 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 2: It's I often talk on this show about the idea 384 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 2: that the expectation of happiness can be a bit of 385 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 2: a trap, and there are moments in life where the 386 00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 2: world tells us we'll be happy when we get the 387 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 2: thing we've been striving for, or how lives look particularly 388 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 2: shiny and perfect from the outside, but beneath the surface, 389 00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 2: we are just not happy. Is there a time in 390 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 2: your life that you think of where the world told 391 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 2: you you'd be happy and you weren't. 392 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: Or that if and when mindset. Yeah, it's a weird trap. Yeah, 393 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: probably after most achievements, right, yeah, yeah, definitely after a 394 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 1: lot of the times where I achieved something and as 395 00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:27,399 Speaker 1: I said, like it was like a plug something for 396 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: a period of time, but it's like it's not long 397 00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:31,879 Speaker 1: and then you're like, I've got to get the next thing. 398 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: It's like it's a genuine addiction, like like an addictions 399 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: running my family. I've been addicted to negative things in 400 00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:39,199 Speaker 1: my life. I've been addicted to positive things in my life, 401 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 1: but they all cause very similar things. And it's like 402 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,360 Speaker 1: low self worth and then it's like unique that next 403 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: feeling to feel something to feel in your body or 404 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 1: else you're just like life is boring. I find that 405 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,120 Speaker 1: because I've lived the highest of highs and I've been 406 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: the lowest of lows, and wow, I feel alive in both. Yeah, 407 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: but in the middle you're like, oh this is so yeah, 408 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 1: it feels like that sometimes. So I don't know. I 409 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: want to try and get control of that before I 410 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: have kids, because I don't want to pass on to kids, 411 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: but it's a hard reality to live in of Like 412 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: when I'm operating at this like halfway, I'm like, man, 413 00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: this is boring. 414 00:19:12,120 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. 415 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 2: And I think also when you're used to those extremes 416 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 2: like which I can imagine when you go into the 417 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 2: ring for boxing, you have so much adrenaline, you have 418 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 2: like you're just so present and so aware. I can't 419 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 2: imagine there are many other times in day to day 420 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 2: life when you feel like that. Is there a comdown 421 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 2: after a. 422 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: Fight, absolutely, yeah, massive come down, even after an event 423 00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: like the Olympics. But I think like you even't thinking 424 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 1: about like the smaller scale. So you go to like 425 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: a music festival, like or you go to a concert, 426 00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: like it's like amazing, this endorphin release, you're connected to humans, 427 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 1: you're singing your favorite band. But then you go home 428 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: you're like, like you're little bit unhappy the next day. 429 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: But it's like it's because you've like exhausted yourself a 430 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 1: little bit, and it's just that's the reality of things. 431 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 1: But and I guess the higher you go, the lower 432 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: you go on the other end as well. But I've 433 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: learned to manage that quite well. And I'm pretty proud 434 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: of myself this time, like five years ago, I ailed 435 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: at a number of things, and like the different decisions 436 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: I was making compared to now, it's like chalk and cheese. 437 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:16,919 Speaker 1: So I'm pretty proud of myself for that. 438 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 2: What kind of things did you used to do when 439 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 2: you failed? 440 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 3: Where did you go? And what were the unhealthy behaviors 441 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:26,360 Speaker 3: that you leaned into? 442 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: Be more like substance abuse and stuff like that. Yeah, 443 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 1: it'd be trying to like numb the person I saw 444 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: in the mirror. Yeah, Yeah, it was just like I 445 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 1: was super ashamed of myself, and it would be like 446 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: more of a punishment, Yeah, punishment, but it would be 447 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,719 Speaker 1: kind of hidden away with like laughter and joking with 448 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: people that you're with. But it was like even because 449 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: you're like shivered singing about like it was hard to 450 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 1: be in that like just knowing that I wasn't there 451 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: for fun. I was there to like actually just like 452 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 1: no numb my feelings. Like I don't know, and I 453 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: just I feel like I've spoken to a number of 454 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: people in my life and I feel like we often 455 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 1: do this as humans, Like we feel the heaviest of 456 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,919 Speaker 1: emotions and we run away and distract, and I'm guilty 457 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: of this too. I'm doing it right now with this 458 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 1: book tour, like I'm not really feeling what i need 459 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: to feel, and I am conscious that I'm trying to 460 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: create this space when I have some time. So but 461 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: it's one of the things we do. It's like, as 462 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,360 Speaker 1: you said, though you like run away, distract, try and 463 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: you may not feel it, and then it's like, in 464 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 1: the process of that, you kind of pick up a 465 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: few tools and you get through it in a weird way. 466 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 1: It's like out of the universe is always working for us. 467 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: I believe, not against this, but yeah, it's a strange reality. 468 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 2: After the break, Harry talks about how his life has 469 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 2: changed since gaining a public profile and whether he thinks 470 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:49,199 Speaker 2: money actually does by happiness. You talked about during your 471 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,360 Speaker 2: childhood you didn't necessarily have a lot of money, and 472 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 2: now I would imagine you're in a very financially different 473 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 2: position where not only I assume you've made good money 474 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 2: from boxing and media and that sort of thing, but 475 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,919 Speaker 2: there are lots of opportunities for you to make money. 476 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 2: Do you think money buys happiness. 477 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: The buye's freedom. Yeah, I don't think it buys happiness. 478 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: I think you can chase something your whole life, and 479 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: if you don't like the person you see in the mirror, 480 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: it's like that's not happy. But I think money does 481 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 1: buy time and freedom. And I know, coming from no money, 482 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 1: like I want to make sure when I have kids, 483 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: like I didn't go to private school, and or make 484 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: sure I try and send them to the best school possible, 485 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: Like I want to give them the best opportunity I can, right, 486 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,119 Speaker 1: I want to strive for things financially for them and 487 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: for myself as well, like I want to change the 488 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 1: stars for my family and my future family. But I 489 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: don't think money buys happiness. Like find your passions, find 490 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: your interest, and it's like when you're feeling secure financially, 491 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: it's like, make sure you create time and space to 492 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,640 Speaker 1: do those things. It's like I actually read this threat. 493 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: I think it was on Instagram, and it was around 494 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: like investing in love. Like love is the most beautiful emotion, 495 00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: right we all love being in love or loving our 496 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:02,679 Speaker 1: favorite sport team or like our favorite thing. Love is 497 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,439 Speaker 1: so pure, And it was like invest in love, invest 498 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 1: in those cute little romantic dates, invest in those like 499 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: the journals so you can write each other love notes 500 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: and invest in those things that like you care about me. 501 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 1: I think so often as humans we're just like we 502 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:19,679 Speaker 1: push those things to the side because they're always here 503 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: our partner or our family. We push them to the side, 504 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,160 Speaker 1: but like, dedicate some time to those people. Like I 505 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: don't know, we spend more time working rather than like 506 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: investing in love. But I get it, you might need 507 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: to strive that. I'd rather spend all my money and 508 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,919 Speaker 1: like I don't be in love and just pure. 509 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 2: I think the problem is that when you're struggling financially, 510 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 2: all your energy goes to that and you don't have 511 00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:47,919 Speaker 2: time to think about investing in love, or investing in peace, 512 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 2: or investing in yourself because every moment is stressing about money. 513 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,200 Speaker 2: That's what it feels like with money. Like what's your 514 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 2: relationship with money? Do you use it to help your family? 515 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 2: Do you use it to invest in incredible experiences? 516 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 3: Like where do you go with it? 517 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: It's there a combination of everything. Yeah, this is one 518 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 1: of the qualities I really like about myself. I'm super 519 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 1: generous for my money, almost to a fault sometimes, But 520 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: I've always been very much like that, like I'm always 521 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: the person who say you're at a friend dinner or 522 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:22,400 Speaker 1: something like that. It's like, I get up, I've gone 523 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: on the toll and I'll pay for dinner. 524 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 2: Right. 525 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 1: It's just like my dad very much was like that. 526 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: And I'm in a position now where it's like, yes, 527 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 1: I don't have a house, like I don't have heaps 528 00:24:32,120 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 1: of money, Like yeah, that's the thing, A generation won't 529 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: buy a house, but like, I don't have heaps of security. 530 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: But compared to where I was, like I literally didn't 531 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 1: make the Rio Olympics in twenty sixteen. I was fresh 532 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: eighteen and I was in fifteen thousand dollars debt trying 533 00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: to make the team. I didn't even make it, right, 534 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: And it's like I spent the next two or three 535 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,160 Speaker 1: years paying off that debt as a tradesman. And then 536 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: now I'm in a position now where it's like I 537 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 1: can look back at that and go, I'm so different now, 538 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 1: And yes, of course I'm not well off on the 539 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: standard of Australia. I'm in a position now I don't 540 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: have responsibilities, I don't have kids. So if I can 541 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,160 Speaker 1: help a friend out, if I can help a brother out, 542 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: if I can help a family out, then I will 543 00:25:08,120 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: one hundred percent trum my best to do its. 544 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 2: In twenty twenty three, you went into the jungle for 545 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 2: I'm a Celebrity and you finished second and you were 546 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 2: just adored by viewers, and there was a little period 547 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 2: of time when you'd finish filming and when you got 548 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 2: on the plane to go home, that sounded really magical 549 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,120 Speaker 2: and you got to spend time with your dad. Can 550 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 2: you tell me about what that experience. 551 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: Was like talking about money, Like I upgraded my dad 552 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: to business class, which is awesome. So like me and 553 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 1: my dad like growing up, like would never have a 554 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 1: dream of going to business class. 555 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 2: I've never flown business class. And your description of business class, 556 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, I just. 557 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: Wanted so so wild, Like I'm just doing that with 558 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 1: my dad, Like, especially after such an amazing experience like 559 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: I'm a celebrity. Yeah, me and my dad, it must 560 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: have been. We're both quite pissed by the time the 561 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: time we took off, Like it was such an amazing 562 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,360 Speaker 1: experience and just to sort of share that with my dad, 563 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: like so unbelievably grateful. 564 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 2: I don't know why it's particularly with our dads but 565 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 2: sometimes we feel like you're trying to be all flashy 566 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,120 Speaker 2: and achieve things so that your dad will be proud 567 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 2: of you. You're doing like a dance, You're like, hey Dad, 568 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 2: hey dad, look at what I'm doing. And with that, 569 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,160 Speaker 2: it's like you had been on TV Australia had loved you, 570 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 2: and then you had some time in like fancy accommodation 571 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 2: where you got to. 572 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 3: See animals and all that, did you feel like your 573 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 3: dad was really really proud of you. 574 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: I know both my parents are extremely proud of me. 575 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: I don't think you realize this when you're younger, but 576 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 1: I I went to my dad a few times in 577 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 1: my life and some quite recently too, Like I would say, 578 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: this is like my goal, this is my dream, what 579 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: I want to do, and he would shout me down 580 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: straight away. And I didn't realize this as a kid, 581 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: and you would take that personally think oh what, like 582 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 1: he doesn't believe in me or like whatever, and you 583 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: just take this creates your story. But what I've realized 584 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,399 Speaker 1: it's like it's his projection of him not believing that 585 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,080 Speaker 1: he's capable of doing that, which is heartbreaking. Right, Like 586 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: my dad's one of the smartest men. I know, Like 587 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 1: he does those quiz you know, those game shows, He's 588 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 1: getting every question right. I'm like, that's why are you trained? 589 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: But obviously you're the smartest, like go on who wants 590 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: to win it. I know it's sad because it comes 591 00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 1: from his I'm assuming I have no idea. I think 592 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: it comes from his projection of he doesn't potentially believe 593 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: that if his wild reshimes, he could do it. So 594 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: but I'm like, surely, after twenty seven years of life, 595 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 1: I've proven to you by now that like if I 596 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:29,920 Speaker 1: said I'm going to do something, I'm going to try 597 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: my absolute hardest to do it. I might not achieve it, 598 00:27:32,120 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: but I'll be bloody trying. 599 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. And so it sounds like you were in this 600 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 2: beautiful moment of doing things that you never thought you'd 601 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 2: be able to do with your dad, and having come 602 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 2: off the back of this show, then you landed in 603 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,919 Speaker 2: Australia and you pretty much entered a nightmare. Can you 604 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 2: tell me about the moment that you were arrested? 605 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. To be honest, I haven't ran away 606 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,640 Speaker 1: from that. More than anything. I don't know if you'll 607 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 1: ever get fully get through something like that it's like 608 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: a weird sort of I wouldn't say PTSD. Maybe it is, 609 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: it might have formed of PTSD, but yeah, I just 610 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: walked into something that I had absolutely no idea was 611 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: going to occur. So just like that period of my 612 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: life was like extremely low, like a bit of a blur, 613 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: but it's so powerful, like what goes on in that 614 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 1: I actually felt like that was like one of the 615 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: best things to ever happen to me. Like I feel 616 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,360 Speaker 1: like that was actually the turning point in my life 617 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 1: where I built a better relationship with myself. I had 618 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 1: my own back in that moment, I showed up for myself. 619 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: I didn't turn to anything negative. I didn't drink for 620 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 1: like six months. I like was just doing what I 621 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 1: needed to do to get through that moment, and I'm 622 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: really grateful for that. I actually did a breathwork experience 623 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: probably three months post and I was still very much 624 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: in it, and I had this beautiful experience where I 625 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: was like bird's eye view of myself. And this has 626 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: never happened to me. People talk about it in their 627 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: breath of extimes. My shut up, that doesn't happen. It 628 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 1: happened to me, and I was like hugging a young kid, 629 00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: and I'm just assuming it was my younger self. I'm 630 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: what a full circle moment. That young kid was like 631 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: so sad, right, But I, as a twenty six year 632 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: old man at the time, I had his own bag. 633 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 1: I had his back, And I'm really grateful that that 634 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: moment happened because I think I wouldn't be able to 635 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,959 Speaker 1: handle the Paris loss the way I am now if 636 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: it wasn't for that moment, right, that was life shattering. 637 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 2: That moment of being arrested. From reading your book, I 638 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 2: didn't even think how many opportunities you would have lost 639 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 2: in that moment, where people would have just pulled contracts, 640 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 2: pulled things. And the other thing you write about is 641 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 2: how it impacted relationships. So what happened in terms of like, 642 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 2: were there people who let you down in that moment 643 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 2: where you really needed support. 644 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say let me down. I would definitely more 645 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: so say they showed their true colors. But there was 646 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: many people who like led a hand, like gave me 647 00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: a hand up. And I'm really grateful for those people. 648 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: And I'll speak so highly of Sue Christanthe and Rebecca 649 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: Giles and Hamish McLaughlin and the girls that Swiss multivitamins 650 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 1: like my management. I mean, like people stepped up, Like 651 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: when I was lost, right, and there was a lot 652 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: of people who did it. It was a pretty hectic experience. 653 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 1: And I get it. The world we live in, it's 654 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: like this cancel culture. But how I've always is like 655 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: Peter Bowl, prime example. We went through Peter Bowl, the 656 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: ade of Ameter Runner, who went through that drug doping 657 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: situation where he was falsely accused of drug doping, but 658 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: he was like accused for a long period of time, right, 659 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: And I messaged him because Peter Bowl has always been 660 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: a bloody legend to me always. I do not agree 661 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: with drug cheating. I'm like so against it, like morally 662 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: it's not okay. But he has treated me with respect 663 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: and dignity. And when he was going through that, I 664 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: messaged him saying, mate, I'm always here for you, call 665 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: if you need anything, because he has been good to me, right, 666 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 1: And I try and base people on that. It's like 667 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: whatever comes out about them, I have no idea. I 668 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: don't know what's right. Obviously got proven to be false, 669 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: you mean, but it's like they treat you with respect 670 00:30:58,120 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: it's like we should be judging people on that, not 671 00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: this public stuff, because this cancel culture is just like toxic, 672 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: it's like gossip, Like it's so just like, oh, trashy. 673 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 2: It's interesting that when a story like that comes out, 674 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 2: and for you, it was being accused of domestic violence, 675 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 2: which for a man in the public. 676 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 3: Eye is the worst thing that you can be accused of. 677 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 2: And I can imagine for someone like you, who is 678 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 2: incredibly respectful and incredibly you've always been very open about 679 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 2: embracing femininity and just not being that kind of man, 680 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 2: I can imagine that was a really frustrating, hurtful experience 681 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 2: in that moment. Did people come to you and ask 682 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 2: if you did it? And how did that feel? 683 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: To be honest, Like, I don't know, I kind of 684 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 1: would have respected someone if they did. Yeah, yeah, because absolutely, 685 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 1: like you should ask that question. I think if I 686 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: remember correctly, like it was kind of a blow that period, 687 00:31:58,200 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: But I don't think it happened that often, Like I 688 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: can't remember any specific moments. But it's like, I don't 689 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: know many people like want to front up and have 690 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 1: that uncomfortable conversation, like and I would kind of respect 691 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: it if they did. Absolutely. If someone come to come 692 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: the pub and said you can write comments online, like yeah, 693 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: you're real tough doing that. It's like if someone comment 694 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: through the publem was like hey, like push me or 695 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: something like that, It's like I would kind of respect that, right, 696 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: It's like yeah, because those charges are so hectic, so hectic, 697 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: but it didn't happen. No. 698 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 2: No, in terms of the people who you say kind 699 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 2: of showed their true colors and maybe didn't reach out 700 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 2: or it's weird. When you're a public figure, it's almost 701 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 2: like there are two versions of you. There's like the human, 702 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 2: actual version of you that people know and get to 703 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 2: be with, and then there's the version of you that's 704 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 2: in the daily mail and in the newspaper. And clearly 705 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 2: they get conflated sometimes, and for some people it probably 706 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 2: was that they just went, oh, he did this, and 707 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 2: then their minds turned off once the charges were withdrawn 708 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 2: and it was incredibly clear that this never happened. Did 709 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 2: people come out of the woodwork, Did people kind of 710 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 2: come to you like people who had disappeared when the 711 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 2: charges came out? 712 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, definitely a couple. It's part of the world 713 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: we live in, right, now, But and I also know, 714 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,959 Speaker 1: like for myself, I stop being so self centered and narcissistic, 715 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 1: Like people have their own problems in life, Like I 716 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 1: don't know people's situations, so I can sit here at 717 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 1: absolutely critique. And there was some really hurtful ones, right 718 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: that turned their back of me when I thought that 719 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: we were like good mates. But it's also like I 720 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: don't know their reality, right, I don't know what they 721 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 1: were going through. I don't know what they could have 722 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: been an experience with something in that, so I try 723 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: my best not to sit in that like resentful spitefulness, 724 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 1: Like I know, I just find that quite ugly for myself. 725 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: But of course, like I don't know if you can 726 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: ever fully be like oh yeah, no, worries may whatever, 727 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: like it's like you remember, like it's like forgive but 728 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 1: never forget type situations. So I the whole situation, like 729 00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: my circle got way smaller, and I'm really grateful for that. 730 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: Like I spent my whole childhood sort of searching for 731 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 1: like heaps of friends, but it's like my quality of 732 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: friends right now is so strong, and I'm really grateful 733 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: for that. And the circle is very small in the 734 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 1: Sanctum is very small, and I'm extremely grateful for that. 735 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 2: When you got famous, did you find that that there 736 00:34:19,759 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 2: were people who tried to latch onto you? Like with fame, 737 00:34:23,319 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 2: does it change the nature of your relationships? 738 00:34:25,959 --> 00:34:28,799 Speaker 1: Oh, that's why I probably realized that the most in dating. Yeah, yeah, 739 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,359 Speaker 1: because it's like it's my own inner belief. It's like 740 00:34:32,799 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: they like the they love or like the idea of me, 741 00:34:35,879 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 1: not actually me. And I understand that's my own story 742 00:34:38,319 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: of like that inferiority complex whatever, but it's like I 743 00:34:41,319 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 1: very much do feel that. So it's like it takes 744 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,800 Speaker 1: a decent amount of time for me to break free 745 00:34:45,839 --> 00:34:47,999 Speaker 1: of that. And I always try and listen to my 746 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: guard my intuition, Like you can kind of tell someone's 747 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,839 Speaker 1: intentions pretty quick most of the time if you're paying attention. 748 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,559 Speaker 1: So in saying that, I've been very wrong a number 749 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,879 Speaker 1: of times too, So it's just part of it, part 750 00:34:57,879 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: of the nature. Like I always try my best to 751 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 1: be as genuine as I can, and you can kind 752 00:35:03,279 --> 00:35:05,039 Speaker 1: of read like sometimes you can't help if you don't 753 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:06,839 Speaker 1: like someone, like you just don't get around them. But 754 00:35:06,879 --> 00:35:08,439 Speaker 1: there's so many good people in this world, and I've 755 00:35:08,479 --> 00:35:10,079 Speaker 1: met so many people since I got like a little 756 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 1: bit of public knowledge. So and I'm really grateful for 757 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:13,479 Speaker 1: those people. 758 00:35:14,279 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 2: Now looking back at the allegations and the arrest. 759 00:35:17,919 --> 00:35:21,359 Speaker 1: Are you angry, Nah, it was the best thing that 760 00:35:21,439 --> 00:35:24,919 Speaker 1: happened to me. So you learn the most. Of course, 761 00:35:24,959 --> 00:35:26,559 Speaker 1: I don't like saying this, because you learn something from 762 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 1: every situation. You learn something when you win, you learn 763 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: something when you succeed, But it is true we learn 764 00:35:31,759 --> 00:35:34,360 Speaker 1: way more when we don't succeed or when life really 765 00:35:34,439 --> 00:35:36,919 Speaker 1: knocks us down. And for me, that was like soul shattering. 766 00:35:37,359 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 1: And I'm yeah, I'm not angry. I'm not resentful what 767 00:35:39,759 --> 00:35:42,239 Speaker 1: I've moved on, and I know, I feel like I'm 768 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 1: just focusing on my goals my ambitions now and I've 769 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:46,439 Speaker 1: got a new partner and I'm really happy in that, 770 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,879 Speaker 1: and like, I think that's the most important thing. I 771 00:35:48,959 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: never wanted that situation to take away from my ability 772 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,879 Speaker 1: to love, because love is the most pure and genuine thing. 773 00:35:55,919 --> 00:35:57,679 Speaker 1: And I love when I share my life with someone 774 00:35:57,799 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 1: and you want to tell them about your best moments 775 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:01,919 Speaker 1: and your worst moments, and you want to hear theirs like, oh, 776 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,839 Speaker 1: that's what we live for. We are social animals. And 777 00:36:05,439 --> 00:36:07,399 Speaker 1: I'm really grateful for that, so I'm not angry at all. 778 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,319 Speaker 2: More of my conversation Harry Garside after this short break. 779 00:36:20,279 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 2: You have a line in your book that really stuck 780 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:27,319 Speaker 2: with me, and it's anger is just sadness suppressed. And 781 00:36:27,479 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 2: I thought it was really profound, particularly when it comes 782 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,439 Speaker 2: to men and mental health. When you look at the 783 00:36:33,479 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 2: men around you who fit that stereotype of being angry, 784 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 2: and I think we all know men like that. Do 785 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,319 Speaker 2: you think deep down they're sad? And what do you 786 00:36:43,399 --> 00:36:45,880 Speaker 2: think is making men sad? 787 00:36:46,919 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: So I've thought about this so much, and I obviously 788 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,359 Speaker 1: can only speak for the males in my environment, but 789 00:36:52,399 --> 00:36:54,439 Speaker 1: I think I've met a number of men, especially being 790 00:36:54,479 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 1: in a sport like boxing, and I think the biggest 791 00:36:58,279 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 1: thing I reckon men search for is acknowledgment and respect. 792 00:37:04,319 --> 00:37:06,239 Speaker 1: I don't know what your relationship's like with your dad 793 00:37:06,359 --> 00:37:08,199 Speaker 1: or if you have a partner, I'm not too sure, 794 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 1: but it's like, if you really pay attention to them. 795 00:37:10,919 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: All the men in my life they do this weird 796 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,479 Speaker 1: acts of service when no one's looking like my dad, 797 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:18,039 Speaker 1: I'll go down to Melbourne and the car will be 798 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,119 Speaker 1: clean and it'll be full of fuel right, doesn't say 799 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,960 Speaker 1: a thing, doesn't do anything, and it's acts of service. 800 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,959 Speaker 1: I think the biggest thing they're searching for is acknowledgment. 801 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,519 Speaker 1: And so often we just like overlook men. Right. It's 802 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: like when the boat's thinking, who do we take care of? 803 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,279 Speaker 1: Which we should is kids and women, right, And it's 804 00:37:34,359 --> 00:37:37,399 Speaker 1: male's duty. That's like a man's role. And I love that. 805 00:37:37,479 --> 00:37:39,119 Speaker 1: But I think in a society we live in now, 806 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 1: it's like, I think men just are searching for a 807 00:37:41,279 --> 00:37:43,519 Speaker 1: little bit of respect and acknowledgment. And in that it's 808 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,879 Speaker 1: like I think a lot of their sadness may dissipate 809 00:37:47,919 --> 00:37:49,519 Speaker 1: a little bit potentially. I'm not sure. I'm not like 810 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: a psychologist. I don't have the rules of the universe, 811 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:53,639 Speaker 1: but like, I think it would really help. 812 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's something about feeling a bit invisible. 813 00:37:58,399 --> 00:38:01,759 Speaker 2: And my husband and I have a little eight month 814 00:38:01,759 --> 00:38:05,519 Speaker 2: old daughter, and so it's always about like I'm doing 815 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,479 Speaker 2: this and you're doing this. And I've realized that he 816 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:10,839 Speaker 2: does a whole lot of things that I don't see 817 00:38:10,919 --> 00:38:13,559 Speaker 2: and it's really easy for me to say, but I'm 818 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:15,799 Speaker 2: feeding the baby and I'm getting up at night and 819 00:38:15,799 --> 00:38:17,759 Speaker 2: that sort of thing, and he will have a huge 820 00:38:17,799 --> 00:38:20,759 Speaker 2: list of exactly what you say, acts of service that 821 00:38:21,359 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 2: I don't acknowledge. And I think it is that thing 822 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,519 Speaker 2: of wanting to be seen and acknowledged and respected. My 823 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:31,519 Speaker 2: dad is exactly the same. You say you hate the 824 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,280 Speaker 2: term toxic masculinity. 825 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 3: Why is that? 826 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 1: I think when it started it was quite pure, But 827 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,639 Speaker 1: I just think it's been used in a really bad way. 828 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,479 Speaker 1: And I think any platform, any podcasts, any place in 829 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 1: society that is putting men against women is toxic in itself. 830 00:38:47,399 --> 00:38:50,919 Speaker 1: Like we need each other, like that's how we were animals, right, 831 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,039 Speaker 1: Like we need each other just as much as it's like, 832 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,519 Speaker 1: and I think absolutely there is things that we need 833 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 1: to reflect on about the male culture. It is negative 834 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:00,679 Speaker 1: for sure. And I noticed this, Like when I'm in 835 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,679 Speaker 1: in a male environment where I say, there's a group 836 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 1: of ten boys, I noticed that I start acting a 837 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,279 Speaker 1: little bit different and the jokes are a little bit different, right, 838 00:39:08,279 --> 00:39:10,399 Speaker 1: And it's like, I do notice that. That's so, I mean, 839 00:39:10,439 --> 00:39:11,919 Speaker 1: do we need to reflect on Like we don't talk 840 00:39:11,959 --> 00:39:13,759 Speaker 1: about deep stuff. We're always taking the piss out of 841 00:39:13,799 --> 00:39:16,919 Speaker 1: each other, Like, but there is also so many beautiful 842 00:39:16,919 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 1: things about masculinity. I'm sure you've saw that with your 843 00:39:19,279 --> 00:39:22,239 Speaker 1: dad and your partner and other male figures in your life. 844 00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,399 Speaker 1: And I just think that any platform in our society 845 00:39:25,399 --> 00:39:28,519 Speaker 1: that is putting men against women or vice versa is 846 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:30,439 Speaker 1: toxic in itself, and I think we need to work 847 00:39:30,479 --> 00:39:31,799 Speaker 1: together to get to a better position. 848 00:39:32,879 --> 00:39:37,120 Speaker 2: You also talk a lot about men and mental health. 849 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:42,159 Speaker 2: What do you think is the difference, for example, when 850 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,879 Speaker 2: you have struggled with your mental health. We know that 851 00:39:45,479 --> 00:39:50,079 Speaker 2: suicide rates, for example, are really high among men. What 852 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:53,759 Speaker 2: do you think it is that makes mental health issues 853 00:39:53,759 --> 00:39:58,480 Speaker 2: among men particularly scary and severe. 854 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:04,239 Speaker 1: I personally think like men want to feel capable and 855 00:40:04,319 --> 00:40:06,880 Speaker 1: like they have a job. It's like I have beans 856 00:40:06,879 --> 00:40:09,759 Speaker 1: for many men in my life and like say call 857 00:40:09,799 --> 00:40:11,879 Speaker 1: my day's Yeah, what are you doing this week? I'm like, yeah, 858 00:40:11,879 --> 00:40:13,999 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to look for a car. It's like 859 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 1: here will go that night and like find eight cars 860 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:17,839 Speaker 1: in my local area. 861 00:40:17,839 --> 00:40:17,959 Speaker 2: You know. 862 00:40:17,959 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 1: I mean, he's just like that type of person. It's 863 00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:21,799 Speaker 1: just like they want to feel capable, they want to 864 00:40:21,799 --> 00:40:24,880 Speaker 1: feel needed, right, And I think that is actually biologically 865 00:40:24,959 --> 00:40:27,799 Speaker 1: in most masculine people, whether it be male or female. 866 00:40:27,799 --> 00:40:29,559 Speaker 1: But it's like they want to feel capable, they want 867 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 1: to feel needed, And I think in a society, it's 868 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,959 Speaker 1: like the generations before us right have just kind of 869 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,279 Speaker 1: created a world that's like almost in Western world, it's 870 00:40:38,319 --> 00:40:40,759 Speaker 1: like almost perfect. It's like, yes, there is so many 871 00:40:40,799 --> 00:40:42,759 Speaker 1: things that we can evolve and get better at. But 872 00:40:42,799 --> 00:40:44,759 Speaker 1: it's like if you're born in Australia in the top 873 00:40:44,799 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 1: three percent of the wealth in the world, it's like 874 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,639 Speaker 1: we're not really struggling. Like I've lived overseas, I've lived 875 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,799 Speaker 1: in poverty stricken countries and I've seen that there it's 876 00:40:53,839 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 1: like real struggle. But I think the world we live 877 00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,839 Speaker 1: in right now is just like it's almost really good. 878 00:40:59,919 --> 00:41:02,479 Speaker 1: The fact that we don't need that masculine energy, whether 879 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,399 Speaker 1: it be man or woman as much anymore, Like we 880 00:41:04,439 --> 00:41:08,319 Speaker 1: don't have fires, we don't have as much war or anger. 881 00:41:08,359 --> 00:41:10,919 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's a weird thing. I just think 882 00:41:10,959 --> 00:41:13,279 Speaker 1: in that a lot of men are feeling loss, and 883 00:41:13,359 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 1: it is up to I want to say this, it 884 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,119 Speaker 1: is up to men as well to make sure they 885 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,479 Speaker 1: recognize this and go, Okay, I need to go to 886 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,519 Speaker 1: the gym more often. I need to find something where 887 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: I feel strong and capable. I want to start at 888 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 1: Brazil and jiu jitsu. I want to do something where 889 00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 1: I feel strong, I feel capable, and it feeds that 890 00:41:29,759 --> 00:41:31,519 Speaker 1: thing inside of us, right, and then in that maybe 891 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,319 Speaker 1: they feel more secure. But at the moment, it's just 892 00:41:33,359 --> 00:41:35,919 Speaker 1: like they're probably sitting behind a TV and just like 893 00:41:35,959 --> 00:41:39,080 Speaker 1: watching like terrible like and they're feeling like unheard and 894 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,119 Speaker 1: listen to it. It's like what are they actually doing 895 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,039 Speaker 1: to help themselves too? It's like a both society needs 896 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:45,560 Speaker 1: to help them and they need to help themselves. 897 00:41:45,759 --> 00:41:48,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, you have a bit of an interesting kind of 898 00:41:48,799 --> 00:41:52,919 Speaker 2: approach to that, where you have little challenges you do 899 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,640 Speaker 2: every month. I find this so inspiring and I really 900 00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,999 Speaker 2: really want to do it. Can you explain what those 901 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:04,799 Speaker 2: challenges are and a few examples of once you've done. 902 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I originally started for an Olympic gold medal 903 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:10,519 Speaker 1: this start of twenty nineteen. So this month, which I'm 904 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,080 Speaker 1: currently doing right now, is the sixty eighth month in 905 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,279 Speaker 1: a row. I've done stuff like fifty hours no talking, 906 00:42:16,799 --> 00:42:20,640 Speaker 1: public reading. I've begged for money, I've washed windows at 907 00:42:20,759 --> 00:42:24,959 Speaker 1: lights if that's a really hard conversation, started ballet karaoke. 908 00:42:25,319 --> 00:42:27,399 Speaker 1: Some are fun. Some are good. Improv class was a 909 00:42:27,439 --> 00:42:29,679 Speaker 1: lot of fun. Yeah, some of fun, some are good. 910 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,639 Speaker 1: The one I'm doing this month is I'm living under 911 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,439 Speaker 1: the poverty line, so I'm living off for two hundred 912 00:42:35,439 --> 00:42:38,680 Speaker 1: and fifty bucks for the week after rent and bills 913 00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:40,439 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. So four hundred and eighty nine 914 00:42:40,479 --> 00:42:43,599 Speaker 1: dollars in Australia is under the poverty line and I 915 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,239 Speaker 1: am living at two fifty after rent and bills, and 916 00:42:46,279 --> 00:42:48,959 Speaker 1: it's thirty five dollars a day. So it's day two 917 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,079 Speaker 1: and it's been really interesting. Like yesterday I walked through 918 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,599 Speaker 1: Coals trying to find some dinner and it was like, 919 00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:59,279 Speaker 1: oh my god, Coals and Woolworths are absolutely ruining the 920 00:42:59,399 --> 00:43:02,239 Speaker 1: hip hocket of our population, like it is wild. I 921 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:05,600 Speaker 1: couldn't get anything for like a decent amount, like so 922 00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,519 Speaker 1: remember that five dollar meal? Remember that was it? That 923 00:43:08,759 --> 00:43:10,640 Speaker 1: was it ten dollar meal or something like that? Feet family 924 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,439 Speaker 1: for ten dollars. Something that calls out is that you 925 00:43:12,439 --> 00:43:14,479 Speaker 1: couldn't do that anymore. No, I could not do that. 926 00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 2: And sometimes when you're not conscious of it, it's almost invisible, 927 00:43:19,279 --> 00:43:20,999 Speaker 2: like I'll just go to the tooth market and pick 928 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 2: up what I need. Then when I scared everything, I'm like, 929 00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,280 Speaker 2: oh Jesus Christ, I have no money and this is why. 930 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,599 Speaker 2: But when you're being fully intentional and looking at how 931 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:33,279 Speaker 2: do I have an affordable meal, it is terrifying. You 932 00:43:33,359 --> 00:43:39,880 Speaker 2: talk about embracing your feminine energy and you paint your nails, 933 00:43:39,919 --> 00:43:42,759 Speaker 2: and that's become like a bit of an iconic thing. 934 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,680 Speaker 2: What did it mean to you the first time you 935 00:43:46,759 --> 00:43:48,520 Speaker 2: painted your nails? Because there's a bit of a story 936 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:49,039 Speaker 2: around it. 937 00:43:49,319 --> 00:43:52,439 Speaker 1: Yeah. So this youth organization, the Reach Foundation, they come 938 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,279 Speaker 1: to my school when I was sixteen and I was 939 00:43:55,319 --> 00:43:57,520 Speaker 1: in this stage of like, I was having no success 940 00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,920 Speaker 1: at boxing, and I was like, do I just start 941 00:43:59,959 --> 00:44:02,360 Speaker 1: partying like all my mates and go down that path 942 00:44:02,399 --> 00:44:05,079 Speaker 1: and leave school and become a trade And I only 943 00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:07,560 Speaker 1: really stayed at school for boxing because it's really easy 944 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,719 Speaker 1: for your body. And they come to my school and 945 00:44:10,799 --> 00:44:13,239 Speaker 1: I was having this like identity crisis and through the 946 00:44:13,319 --> 00:44:16,279 Speaker 1: day it was actually all about challenging masculinity. Is probably 947 00:44:16,319 --> 00:44:18,279 Speaker 1: the reason why was so like strong about it because 948 00:44:18,279 --> 00:44:20,880 Speaker 1: of that day, right, And they gave me a space 949 00:44:20,879 --> 00:44:23,839 Speaker 1: where I could delve into myself and actually see what 950 00:44:23,919 --> 00:44:26,039 Speaker 1: I find because I felt like I played a role 951 00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,200 Speaker 1: my whole life, and I was feeling misunderstood, but I 952 00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,519 Speaker 1: didn't know who I was. So it's like, how can 953 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:32,319 Speaker 1: you show who you are if you don't know who 954 00:44:32,319 --> 00:44:32,599 Speaker 1: you are? 955 00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:32,839 Speaker 2: Right? 956 00:44:32,839 --> 00:44:34,239 Speaker 1: And I just went on this like and I'm still 957 00:44:34,279 --> 00:44:35,719 Speaker 1: on it. I love it, Like iing on this like 958 00:44:35,759 --> 00:44:38,279 Speaker 1: wild journey of actually trying to find out who I am. Right. 959 00:44:38,799 --> 00:44:40,680 Speaker 1: I don't know if you ever fully find the answer, 960 00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,200 Speaker 1: but I'm getting closer and closer each day. And in 961 00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,039 Speaker 1: that day, it was obviously a very masculine environment. It 962 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,799 Speaker 1: was just males, and they spoke about men are always 963 00:44:49,799 --> 00:44:52,039 Speaker 1: the ones like you see at parties jumping off the 964 00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,279 Speaker 1: roof onto tables or fighting or like drinking the most. 965 00:44:55,479 --> 00:45:00,120 Speaker 1: It's like it's like this competitive, highly competitive nature environment 966 00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:01,879 Speaker 1: and it's just like often in that we do a 967 00:45:01,959 --> 00:45:04,519 Speaker 1: lot of negative things. And I think that day was 968 00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:06,280 Speaker 1: just all about challenging it. And one of the things 969 00:45:06,399 --> 00:45:08,080 Speaker 1: was paint your nails. All the boys like, oh you 970 00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:10,719 Speaker 1: imagine what six year boys are saying. And when you're 971 00:45:10,759 --> 00:45:12,399 Speaker 1: painted your nails and you went out for lunch and 972 00:45:12,439 --> 00:45:14,640 Speaker 1: then you come back, you realize that the world didn't 973 00:45:14,799 --> 00:45:18,879 Speaker 1: finish and nothing change, right, nothing changed it's just this 974 00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:21,399 Speaker 1: like belief that we choose to believe about well, how 975 00:45:21,439 --> 00:45:23,439 Speaker 1: we have to act. And I'm really grateful for that day. 976 00:45:23,439 --> 00:45:25,479 Speaker 1: And then I become a crew member and I guess 977 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:27,200 Speaker 1: the rest is history. And that really helps me out 978 00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:29,920 Speaker 1: about building my emotional intelligence, which I'm so grateful. 979 00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:34,279 Speaker 2: When you talk about having feminine energy, what does that 980 00:45:34,319 --> 00:45:35,119 Speaker 2: look like to you? 981 00:45:35,799 --> 00:45:37,839 Speaker 1: Feminine energy for me is the place that I go 982 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:39,799 Speaker 1: where I need to take care of myself. It's probably 983 00:45:39,839 --> 00:45:42,360 Speaker 1: the place that I'm distracting myself from the most right now. 984 00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:46,759 Speaker 1: It's in flow, it's care, it's just being in rhythm 985 00:45:46,839 --> 00:45:48,919 Speaker 1: with yourself, being in sync. And I love that. I 986 00:45:48,919 --> 00:45:52,880 Speaker 1: think pure feminine energy is like organic when I dance, 987 00:45:52,959 --> 00:45:54,959 Speaker 1: I feel like that when I move my body, I'm 988 00:45:54,959 --> 00:45:57,759 Speaker 1: in flow, I'm in rhythm. It's really nice. But it's 989 00:45:57,759 --> 00:45:59,239 Speaker 1: also the space where I go and I need to 990 00:45:59,359 --> 00:46:02,399 Speaker 1: let go. I think the masculine energy for history has 991 00:46:02,439 --> 00:46:04,959 Speaker 1: been like you'd be strong, and like if you're in war, 992 00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,279 Speaker 1: you don't talk about gees on my leg swords, like 993 00:46:07,319 --> 00:46:10,719 Speaker 1: you keep going, you keep fighting. We need that we're ers, 994 00:46:10,759 --> 00:46:13,640 Speaker 1: and I think we all have masculine and feminine inside 995 00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:15,360 Speaker 1: of us. It's just up to us to ask ourself 996 00:46:15,439 --> 00:46:18,279 Speaker 1: the question to see what energy we need most right now, 997 00:46:18,319 --> 00:46:19,639 Speaker 1: and that will vary through our time. 998 00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:23,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that idea of feminine energy is really 999 00:46:23,759 --> 00:46:26,559 Speaker 2: you don't hear a lot of men acknowledging it, even 1000 00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:30,200 Speaker 2: though every man I know has clear different parts to 1001 00:46:30,319 --> 00:46:34,959 Speaker 2: them and even do things that YE are clearly leading 1002 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:36,000 Speaker 2: into their feminine energy. 1003 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:38,080 Speaker 1: Have you experienced this before? So I spoke to a 1004 00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:39,640 Speaker 1: lot of women in my life and they've said that 1005 00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:41,999 Speaker 1: like when they date a man, like the man would 1006 00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:44,679 Speaker 1: love like words of affirmation. It's just like men never 1007 00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:48,160 Speaker 1: it's like the acknowledgment right never. Really like men love 1008 00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,399 Speaker 1: when their partners saying all these nice things about what 1009 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:52,640 Speaker 1: you say. It's like they want to hear it, right, 1010 00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:54,559 Speaker 1: And it's just like it's like a really interesting thing. 1011 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:56,080 Speaker 1: And I think more men need to sort of just 1012 00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:58,559 Speaker 1: as create space and ask yourself the question. I'm not 1013 00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,399 Speaker 1: saying that you need to paint your nails or like 1014 00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,399 Speaker 1: start dance or like wear a dress, like, just ask 1015 00:47:04,479 --> 00:47:07,160 Speaker 1: yourself what you need and it will vary throughout time, 1016 00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:09,759 Speaker 1: and create that space and try and give it to yourself. 1017 00:47:09,799 --> 00:47:11,640 Speaker 1: Like I think we need to take care of ourselves 1018 00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:13,559 Speaker 1: rather than focusing other things to take care of us. 1019 00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:19,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, what currently day to day keeps you from happiness? 1020 00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:21,359 Speaker 2: Like what would you say is your biggest challenge to 1021 00:47:21,399 --> 00:47:23,759 Speaker 2: happiness At the moment, I. 1022 00:47:23,759 --> 00:47:25,719 Speaker 1: Think happiness is like a fleeting thing. It's like a 1023 00:47:25,759 --> 00:47:28,519 Speaker 1: weird myth that the Western civilization tells us, like we 1024 00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,719 Speaker 1: will be happy. Then it's like this, when I do this, 1025 00:47:31,799 --> 00:47:33,120 Speaker 1: then I will be happy. It's like that if and 1026 00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,039 Speaker 1: when mindset. But it's like some days are on I'm 1027 00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:39,160 Speaker 1: sure hormones for females play a massive role. Like I 1028 00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,560 Speaker 1: have been around many women in my life and you're like, oh, okay, 1029 00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:48,399 Speaker 1: it's coming. She hates me, hates me right now, But 1030 00:47:48,439 --> 00:47:50,719 Speaker 1: it's like it's just noticing, like some days are good, 1031 00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:52,359 Speaker 1: some days are bad. But I try my best to 1032 00:47:52,359 --> 00:47:55,399 Speaker 1: have more like consistent and happy life. And probably the 1033 00:47:55,399 --> 00:47:58,439 Speaker 1: thing that is shopping me from that is like it's 1034 00:47:58,479 --> 00:48:02,880 Speaker 1: like myself sometimes like how often do you like sacrifice 1035 00:48:02,879 --> 00:48:05,799 Speaker 1: like going to the gym, or sacrifice like seeing your friends, 1036 00:48:05,879 --> 00:48:08,439 Speaker 1: or sacrifice something for work, or like just really your 1037 00:48:08,479 --> 00:48:12,039 Speaker 1: prioritization list for me is the thing that will take 1038 00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,999 Speaker 1: away from my happiness at times yeah, yeah, So I 1039 00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,439 Speaker 1: think it's just like it's like knowing what really lights 1040 00:48:17,479 --> 00:48:19,279 Speaker 1: you up. It's like does work really light you up? 1041 00:48:19,319 --> 00:48:20,799 Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, you probably need a work to put 1042 00:48:20,799 --> 00:48:22,640 Speaker 1: from the table, but it's like do you need to 1043 00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:25,280 Speaker 1: stay back here until seven thirty at night? Like, yeah, 1044 00:48:25,319 --> 00:48:27,040 Speaker 1: do you need to take that book home? Like do 1045 00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,600 Speaker 1: you really need to? Of course, we all need to 1046 00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:31,120 Speaker 1: progress in our career, but I don't know. I think 1047 00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:33,639 Speaker 1: that's probably the thing, is like the prioritization of other 1048 00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:35,600 Speaker 1: things rather than the things I really enjoy. 1049 00:48:36,439 --> 00:48:43,520 Speaker 2: And right now post Paris, post some really difficult times. 1050 00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:47,519 Speaker 2: But you know, also in the midst of having your 1051 00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,840 Speaker 2: book out and feeling like you have a lot to offer, 1052 00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:53,840 Speaker 2: would you say that right now you are happy? 1053 00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,319 Speaker 1: As I said, it's very fleeting. It's very fleeting. I 1054 00:48:58,319 --> 00:49:00,719 Speaker 1: feel like there's days where I wake up and I 1055 00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:02,519 Speaker 1: feel playful at the moment. I don't know. Do you 1056 00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,319 Speaker 1: ever see Kathy Freeman when she won that four unameter race, 1057 00:49:05,839 --> 00:49:08,519 Speaker 1: It was like relief? Yeah, right, it was relief. Like 1058 00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,639 Speaker 1: I love competing, I love fighting, I love like that 1059 00:49:11,799 --> 00:49:14,879 Speaker 1: primal energy that it brings out. I love chipping away 1060 00:49:14,879 --> 00:49:16,919 Speaker 1: at a goal for a year for twenty years, and 1061 00:49:16,959 --> 00:49:19,519 Speaker 1: I love that. It's great. But I also like there 1062 00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:21,120 Speaker 1: was moments in my preparation I was like, oh, I 1063 00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:22,839 Speaker 1: can't wait for this to be over. Yeah, when I 1064 00:49:22,839 --> 00:49:25,439 Speaker 1: was tired, I was really tired. I think in that 1065 00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,719 Speaker 1: I'm just like, oh, like my shoulders are down right now. 1066 00:49:28,799 --> 00:49:31,239 Speaker 1: So yeah, it's I feel in that. It's like I 1067 00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,440 Speaker 1: feel playful in that I'm eating bad food. I'm also 1068 00:49:34,479 --> 00:49:36,279 Speaker 1: having a few drinks when I've never using a drinks. 1069 00:49:36,319 --> 00:49:38,479 Speaker 1: It's like my body is not feeling amazing, but my 1070 00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:39,839 Speaker 1: mind is quite strong right now. 1071 00:49:39,959 --> 00:49:42,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, playful is an interesting word. I know exactly what 1072 00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,159 Speaker 2: you mean, and it is those moments in life where 1073 00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:49,040 Speaker 2: maybe you have been working really bloody hard on something 1074 00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:51,399 Speaker 2: and it's happened and there's no more you can do, 1075 00:49:51,759 --> 00:49:53,680 Speaker 2: and so you get to kind of just be in 1076 00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:57,839 Speaker 2: the moment and choose like hedonism and joy rather than 1077 00:49:58,479 --> 00:49:59,119 Speaker 2: putting all of. 1078 00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:00,319 Speaker 3: That aside for the big goal. 1079 00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:03,599 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for your time today. It has 1080 00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:07,840 Speaker 2: been such a wonderful chat, and I think people will 1081 00:50:08,799 --> 00:50:14,239 Speaker 2: love what you've offered about failure and success and how 1082 00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:17,799 Speaker 2: it doesn't necessarily have any bearing on happiness. 1083 00:50:17,839 --> 00:50:19,399 Speaker 3: So I really appreciate your honesty. 1084 00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:21,479 Speaker 1: Oh, thank you, It's been absolute pleasure to talk to you. 1085 00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:27,959 Speaker 2: I hope you took something from Harry about the significance 1086 00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:31,160 Speaker 2: and the utility of failure. Sitting with him, I was 1087 00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:33,319 Speaker 2: struck by the fact that while so many of us 1088 00:50:33,399 --> 00:50:37,519 Speaker 2: chase external achievement, it isn't medals or awards or any 1089 00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:40,399 Speaker 2: kind of metrics that I loved ones will remember us for, 1090 00:50:40,799 --> 00:50:43,639 Speaker 2: and it's not any of those things that actually make 1091 00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:46,359 Speaker 2: us happy. I want to thank Harry for being so 1092 00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:49,040 Speaker 2: open and for sharing himself with us. And if you 1093 00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:51,359 Speaker 2: want more from Harry, you can buy his book The 1094 00:50:51,359 --> 00:50:55,359 Speaker 2: Good Fight at any good bookstore. Harry also spoke in 1095 00:50:55,359 --> 00:50:58,200 Speaker 2: this episode about how much breath work helped him, and 1096 00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:00,640 Speaker 2: if you're interested in breath work and you don't know 1097 00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:03,919 Speaker 2: how to start, the move by Mummeya team has made 1098 00:51:03,959 --> 00:51:06,640 Speaker 2: a free quiz to help you find the right meditation 1099 00:51:06,919 --> 00:51:10,200 Speaker 2: for your day, your life, your needs. There's an entire 1100 00:51:10,279 --> 00:51:13,559 Speaker 2: hi a collection of gentle mindfulness sessions over on move 1101 00:51:13,839 --> 00:51:17,359 Speaker 2: mum MEA's exercise app. If you want a personalized recommendation, 1102 00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:19,599 Speaker 2: head to the link in the show notes and take 1103 00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:23,359 Speaker 2: the quiz to find your Meditation Match And if you 1104 00:51:23,399 --> 00:51:26,319 Speaker 2: want to recommend anyone for the show, you can always 1105 00:51:26,359 --> 00:51:28,879 Speaker 2: message me on Instagram. And if you like the show, 1106 00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:32,279 Speaker 2: leave us a review. We always love your feedback. The 1107 00:51:32,399 --> 00:51:35,520 Speaker 2: executive producer of But Are You Happy? Is Niama Brown 1108 00:51:35,759 --> 00:51:39,280 Speaker 2: and the producer is Charlie Blackman. Audio editing by Scott 1109 00:51:39,319 --> 00:51:41,839 Speaker 2: Stronik and I'm your host, Claire Stevens. 1110 00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:43,040 Speaker 3: We'll see you next week.