WEBVTT - Rachel Ward Looks Her Age. When Did That Become Radical? 0:00:05.799 --> 0:00:09.839 You're listening to Amma mea podcast. I don't think it 0:00:09.879 --> 0:00:10.559 was really about me. 0:00:10.599 --> 0:00:12.839 I think I was a catalyst for a conversation that 0:00:12.919 --> 0:00:16.399 people were wanting to have, and there hadn't been an 0:00:16.439 --> 0:00:20.919 opportunity as clear I suppose. So somebody's suddenly attacking me. 0:00:21.039 --> 0:00:23.519 And I'm a farmer, so i'm you know, why should 0:00:23.559 --> 0:00:26.639 I look at a standard? And I think people have 0:00:26.719 --> 0:00:30.479 a fear of getting older because women become very invisible. 0:00:29.959 --> 0:00:30.879 As they get older. 0:00:31.039 --> 0:00:34.759 Yes, and if they, you know, aren't able to rest 0:00:34.999 --> 0:00:37.559 on the glory of their youth and their beauty and 0:00:37.599 --> 0:00:39.719 their sexuality, who are they? 0:00:39.799 --> 0:00:41.799 Where are they? 0:00:48.559 --> 0:00:53.839 In late December last year, Rachel Ward, legendary actress, farmer, 0:00:54.239 --> 0:00:58.719 wife of Brian Brown, mother of many grandmother, posted a 0:00:58.799 --> 0:01:03.039 video to her Instagram account. She was standing in a paddock, 0:01:03.999 --> 0:01:09.439 no studio lighting, no red carpet, no retouching, a sixty 0:01:09.479 --> 0:01:14.119 eight year old woman on her farm, speaking plainly, and 0:01:14.159 --> 0:01:19.559 within hours the commentary began. Some people praised her for 0:01:19.679 --> 0:01:24.519 looking natural, Others were less kind. There were comments about 0:01:24.559 --> 0:01:28.559 her face, about aging, about how she used to look, 0:01:28.999 --> 0:01:32.319 about whether someone who was once a global screen icon 0:01:32.839 --> 0:01:37.239 was somehow supposed to remain frozen in time. In this 0:01:37.359 --> 0:01:40.399 episode of No Filter, Rachel and I talk about that 0:01:40.559 --> 0:01:43.839 viral moment and what it revealed. We trace her life 0:01:43.879 --> 0:01:49.159 from British aristocracy to Hollywood glamour, from being dismissed as 0:01:49.319 --> 0:01:54.399 beautiful but not bright, to walking away from film and 0:01:54.439 --> 0:01:58.879 eventually becoming a regenerative farmer on the mid North coast 0:01:58.919 --> 0:02:02.959 of New South Wales. We talk about mental health, about 0:02:02.959 --> 0:02:07.239 the crumbles she speaks so openly, and about how she 0:02:07.319 --> 0:02:12.319 has known instinctively when each chapter of her life was over. 0:02:13.519 --> 0:02:16.679 This is the magnificent Rachel Ward. 0:02:17.999 --> 0:02:21.079 Welcome, thank you, very happy to have you. Thank you. 0:02:21.319 --> 0:02:24.239 And then you sat down and you were horrified to 0:02:24.319 --> 0:02:25.559 see that you're well. 0:02:25.599 --> 0:02:26.319 I forgot that. 0:02:26.399 --> 0:02:28.319 Of course you're doing a podcast, but I forgot that 0:02:28.359 --> 0:02:31.079 you always film it. Everything's visual, so I didn't even 0:02:31.159 --> 0:02:33.639 think about it. And look, I was threw on a 0:02:33.679 --> 0:02:36.999 shirt that I've been wearing probably for the last couple 0:02:37.039 --> 0:02:39.039 of days, and I didn't realize I'd. 0:02:38.839 --> 0:02:41.999 Made such a pick of myself. Look in the mirror, 0:02:42.239 --> 0:02:43.759 did you come from the farm? 0:02:43.959 --> 0:02:44.039 No? 0:02:44.479 --> 0:02:46.799 Who's looking after the farm? And no one right now? 0:02:46.799 --> 0:02:49.479 Because I can go for if I pre plan, I 0:02:49.519 --> 0:02:51.279 can go for as long as a week, as long 0:02:51.319 --> 0:02:52.919 as I've got someone I need to do a couple 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:53.439 of moves. 0:02:53.839 --> 0:02:55.839 But yes, I have someone coming in and just moves 0:02:55.879 --> 0:02:57.719 the cattle. Right. But if I'm. 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:01.439 Organized enough, I can go, and I just I can 0:03:01.439 --> 0:03:03.719 go at this stage. I couldn't go if I was 0:03:04.239 --> 0:03:06.159 you know, if I was in carving or something like that. 0:03:06.199 --> 0:03:08.999 But I can go now because they're all just frolicking 0:03:09.039 --> 0:03:09.959 around in their paddocks. 0:03:11.079 --> 0:03:11.319 Yeah. 0:03:11.359 --> 0:03:13.079 So I do have a lovely guy who comes in 0:03:13.119 --> 0:03:14.319 and just moves the cars. 0:03:14.799 --> 0:03:17.799 But you obviously don't have someone doing your laundry. Do 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:20.439 not have someone doing my laundry? That is shocking. 0:03:20.519 --> 0:03:23.639 I just, you know, you forget about looking in the mirrors, 0:03:23.799 --> 0:03:26.359 and you forget about doing your hair, and you just 0:03:26.479 --> 0:03:28.079 and you forget about doing your laundry. 0:03:28.119 --> 0:03:28.839 That is shocking. 0:03:28.999 --> 0:03:35.319 Sorry, Well, this is an interesting catapult into your life, really, 0:03:36.039 --> 0:03:40.719 and your life which has had many shades, many. 0:03:40.599 --> 0:03:41.959 Chapters, many chapters. 0:03:42.079 --> 0:03:44.679 Blessed leaders, long life are not as long as it 0:03:44.719 --> 0:03:50.439 will be, but it has seen you traverse very unusually 0:03:50.479 --> 0:03:55.079 I think a point at which you were applauded. 0:03:56.039 --> 0:03:56.959 For your talents. 0:03:57.039 --> 0:04:02.879 Yes, but your talents were appreciated because of your phenomenal beauty. 0:04:03.479 --> 0:04:07.079 Well, that's very SWEETI thank you. It's not arguable, is 0:04:07.119 --> 0:04:08.119 it what beauty? 0:04:08.279 --> 0:04:11.559 Well, your beauty, and that you came to I think 0:04:11.639 --> 0:04:15.759 world attention through your role in the Thorn Birds. 0:04:15.879 --> 0:04:19.079 Yes, and you were exquisite. 0:04:19.479 --> 0:04:24.439 I mean it brought you world acclaim yes, and attention. 0:04:24.999 --> 0:04:29.599 Yes. And what was your life like prior to that? 0:04:31.319 --> 0:04:31.519 Oh? 0:04:31.679 --> 0:04:33.679 God, I don't know how I encapsulate that. I mean, 0:04:33.759 --> 0:04:36.359 just so far from where that was, I suppose. 0:04:36.639 --> 0:04:39.879 I know that you grew up in an English family. 0:04:40.999 --> 0:04:44.519 I've heard you speak about how you were had like that, 0:04:44.679 --> 0:04:46.999 a traditional sort of upper. 0:04:46.799 --> 0:04:51.919 Middle class English upbringing. So were you at boarding school? Yes? 0:04:52.119 --> 0:04:54.799 I was at boarding school and I was Yeah, I 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:59.559 had a very it was a very Edwardian upbringing. I mean, 0:04:59.639 --> 0:05:03.279 in a way the upper middle classes was stuck in 0:05:03.439 --> 0:05:07.439 aspects as far as women were concerned. So I was 0:05:07.479 --> 0:05:10.999 brought up in a world where I mean a great 0:05:11.039 --> 0:05:15.519 privilege and I had a fantastic childhood in many regards, 0:05:15.599 --> 0:05:18.199 because I grew up in the country, and I had horses, 0:05:18.439 --> 0:05:21.359 and I had a little village which we grew up in, 0:05:21.599 --> 0:05:25.639 and I had some really one particular girl who was 0:05:25.719 --> 0:05:28.599 the chauffeur's daughter, right, who was. 0:05:28.599 --> 0:05:31.039 My best friend. Oh, that's like a novel. Yeah, it 0:05:31.159 --> 0:05:31.879 is like a novel. 0:05:31.959 --> 0:05:34.519 And I spent most of my time in her house 0:05:34.799 --> 0:05:40.479 because we grew up totally with paid people to look 0:05:40.519 --> 0:05:44.119 after us. So you could say, I mean, when I 0:05:44.159 --> 0:05:46.039 look at the way I brought up my children and 0:05:46.079 --> 0:05:48.599 the way that my children bring up their children, it 0:05:48.799 --> 0:05:49.479 just could not. 0:05:49.599 --> 0:05:50.559 Be further from it. 0:05:50.639 --> 0:05:53.679 And I wonder how my mother did it. 0:05:53.759 --> 0:05:55.839 But she did not live with us. 0:05:56.079 --> 0:05:58.959 She basically from the age that before the age we 0:05:58.999 --> 0:06:02.319 went to boarding school, she would spend her weeks in 0:06:02.359 --> 0:06:05.039 London with my father. We were left in the country 0:06:05.039 --> 0:06:08.679 with a nanny, and then she would come down with 0:06:08.719 --> 0:06:11.639 a lot of guests and have parties and social life 0:06:11.719 --> 0:06:14.479 during the weekend, of which we would probably join in 0:06:14.519 --> 0:06:17.559 on a Sunday lunch or something. But that was pretty 0:06:17.599 --> 0:06:22.519 much it. So you could say it was neglectful. But 0:06:22.639 --> 0:06:25.319 you know, we were safe, we were warm, we were fed, 0:06:25.519 --> 0:06:28.239 we were you know, we had all the sort of 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:30.559 things that come under the heading of privilege. 0:06:31.239 --> 0:06:34.639 But was it privilege. It was a I don't know. 0:06:35.239 --> 0:06:38.599 My self confidence has always been very low, and I 0:06:38.679 --> 0:06:41.879 think that has to do with a lot about just 0:06:41.959 --> 0:06:44.999 not being supported as a child, and we would have 0:06:45.239 --> 0:06:46.879 like if you told a story, you were told to 0:06:46.919 --> 0:06:49.199 shit or get off the pot, you know, because you 0:06:49.319 --> 0:06:51.719 just don't take up too much time from adults. You 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:56.239 were very much seen and not heard. My father had 0:06:56.239 --> 0:06:58.479 a classic line when he said, at one point I 0:06:58.519 --> 0:07:00.159 was going to go to university, and he said, what 0:07:00.199 --> 0:07:02.919 on earth do you need an education for you pretty 0:07:03.039 --> 0:07:05.799 enough to marry someone very rich, which, and you know, 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:08.239 I was brought up in a world at primogenitus, so 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.479 that women were definitely second class citizens and you did 0:07:11.519 --> 0:07:16.199 not get a good education. Primogenitus primogenitor is when when 0:07:16.239 --> 0:07:18.119 everything goes to the firstborn son. 0:07:18.559 --> 0:07:20.279 Ah, so as a. 0:07:20.319 --> 0:07:23.999 Daughter, you are expected to marry someone rich who will 0:07:23.999 --> 0:07:28.119 then look after you. So it's very Victorian and that 0:07:28.319 --> 0:07:30.879 was still going on when I was so my father. 0:07:31.599 --> 0:07:34.239 I was not mentioned in my father's will, neither was 0:07:34.239 --> 0:07:37.679 my sister, but my brother and I even have an 0:07:37.679 --> 0:07:40.959 intellectually handicapped brother and he was in front of me 0:07:41.079 --> 0:07:44.599 and the will right for inheritance, for inheritance and running 0:07:44.639 --> 0:07:47.079 the running the estate or whatever. 0:07:47.159 --> 0:07:47.759 Yeah. 0:07:47.959 --> 0:07:50.039 So as a woman and you, we were brought up 0:07:50.079 --> 0:07:52.119 in a thing like when there was dinner and things, 0:07:52.199 --> 0:07:54.959 the women would leave the dinner table at the end 0:07:55.039 --> 0:07:57.759 of the meal so that the men could talk politics 0:07:58.039 --> 0:08:03.479 and smart and whatever else they could take business. No, 0:08:03.679 --> 0:08:06.479 we went out, We left them and they would have 0:08:06.559 --> 0:08:09.519 their cigars and da da da. So women were not 0:08:09.759 --> 0:08:14.999 considered part of that conversation. So you did grow up 0:08:14.999 --> 0:08:18.039 with this, you're not. I don't know how women didn't 0:08:18.039 --> 0:08:22.279 grow up with terrible inferiority complexes. I certainly did. And 0:08:22.319 --> 0:08:24.639 then it was compounded by going to Hollywood, of course. 0:08:24.679 --> 0:08:29.399 So what was compounded was your value was your physicality 0:08:29.479 --> 0:08:34.319 or sexuality, your beauty, your how you elevated the status 0:08:34.359 --> 0:08:36.959 of a man by you know, being a beautiful woman 0:08:37.039 --> 0:08:37.519 or whatever. 0:08:37.999 --> 0:08:43.359 So everything was everything was emphasized. 0:08:42.719 --> 0:08:45.679 On what you looked like and how you presented yourself 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:46.999 and your social cachet. 0:08:47.759 --> 0:08:53.559 So at what point did it become apparent that you 0:08:53.599 --> 0:08:58.639 had received the gifts of the gods of this physical beauty. 0:08:58.719 --> 0:09:01.399 Well, I never recognized it at all. I mean that 0:09:01.519 --> 0:09:03.839 was I don't know. I don't think you do. I 0:09:03.839 --> 0:09:06.679 don't I wonder if you do. I mean I think 0:09:07.399 --> 0:09:10.439 I wonder if you do. I mean, there were certain 0:09:10.479 --> 0:09:13.399 people who'd say, you know, oh you're lovely darling or whatever. 0:09:13.439 --> 0:09:15.559 But you know, you know, I always felt like I 0:09:15.599 --> 0:09:16.319 was overweight. 0:09:16.519 --> 0:09:18.119 I just you know, I was a model, and I 0:09:18.159 --> 0:09:19.599 was always too big to get in I was too 0:09:19.599 --> 0:09:21.879 busty to get into the clothes. I would very often 0:09:21.959 --> 0:09:24.559 sit on the sidelines while other You know, there was 0:09:24.639 --> 0:09:28.039 all sorts of reasons to give you insecurity. 0:09:27.639 --> 0:09:30.679 Of course, and modeling is rife with the. 0:09:30.879 --> 0:09:32.879 Yeah, it was when it came in that you have 0:09:33.039 --> 0:09:36.839 to be you know, extremely thin, right, and I certainly 0:09:36.959 --> 0:09:37.399 wasn't that. 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:38.839 I was quite sort of wholesome. 0:09:39.079 --> 0:09:42.119 But someone had the idea that you could be a model. Well, really, 0:09:42.439 --> 0:09:45.199 yes they did. And the first thing I was told 0:09:45.319 --> 0:09:49.279 was to lose weight. And I was never a particularly 0:09:49.399 --> 0:09:51.239 good model. I didn't get much work. 0:09:52.279 --> 0:09:54.159 Why were you not a good model? 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:57.839 Because I wasn't thin enough? Right, really, I wasn't quite 0:09:57.839 --> 0:10:00.759 thin enough. And there was a look at the time 0:10:00.839 --> 0:10:03.439 I was much more. I don't know, there was very 0:10:03.519 --> 0:10:04.079 much that. 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:05.999 I don't know. 0:10:06.039 --> 0:10:08.199 I was in the time of sort of Sheryl Tigues 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:10.999 and right, it was a sort of the American thing, 0:10:11.039 --> 0:10:14.839 of the long legged, long blonde thing, and I was 0:10:14.919 --> 0:10:19.639 seventeen magazine. Yes, I wasn't quite you know, it certainly 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:22.519 wasn't in that supermodel category by any means. 0:10:22.799 --> 0:10:25.279 Whose idea was it modeling? Can you remember? Well? 0:10:25.319 --> 0:10:27.639 Probably mine, because I was completely ill equipped to do 0:10:27.639 --> 0:10:31.039 anything else. You know, you left, you leave your education system. 0:10:31.039 --> 0:10:34.759 In that world, no emphasis was put on education. I 0:10:34.919 --> 0:10:38.159 was never expected. There was no expectation for me to 0:10:38.199 --> 0:10:42.479 do well in school. My brother got you know, smacked 0:10:42.519 --> 0:10:43.359 over the hand if. 0:10:43.239 --> 0:10:44.279 He got a bad report. 0:10:44.519 --> 0:10:47.359 Nobody cared if us girl's got bad reports, right, So 0:10:47.399 --> 0:10:49.679 there was no emphasis, was no talk of careers. 0:10:49.879 --> 0:10:52.079 There was no you were literally expected. 0:10:52.879 --> 0:10:55.159 And it does sound like I've stepped out of a 0:10:55.359 --> 0:10:58.119 you know, nineteenth century novel, But that's where That's why 0:10:58.119 --> 0:11:00.359 I say it was still an aspects that whole mid 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:01.679 upper middle class thing. 0:11:01.719 --> 0:11:02.719 As far as women go. 0:11:03.119 --> 0:11:06.119 The middle class had moved on much more as far 0:11:06.199 --> 0:11:09.599 as women, you know, thinking about careers and stuff. But 0:11:09.759 --> 0:11:13.759 for us, it was totally about who you married, you know, 0:11:13.839 --> 0:11:16.239 had to, you know, it was My mother was a 0:11:16.319 --> 0:11:18.719 deb she went through that. Now I didn't do that. 0:11:19.159 --> 0:11:22.599 And she married will and she married above station. 0:11:22.839 --> 0:11:25.399 Yes, she married well, she was very beautiful and she 0:11:25.479 --> 0:11:29.919 did marry well, and her grand my grandmother, her mother 0:11:30.079 --> 0:11:33.079 was very pushy about all of that, you know, who 0:11:33.119 --> 0:11:36.599 she should marry and or anyway, she got married ridiculously. 0:11:36.639 --> 0:11:39.239 I'm at twenty one or something, had me at twenty 0:11:39.279 --> 0:11:42.639 one and was you know, completely unready to be a 0:11:42.719 --> 0:11:44.919 mother and to you know, run I mean, she could 0:11:44.959 --> 0:11:47.959 run a household, I suppose, but she was just too 0:11:47.999 --> 0:11:50.959 young to settle down and to think about kids. 0:11:51.239 --> 0:11:53.759 And she had that infrastructure that meant that she didn't 0:11:53.759 --> 0:11:56.479 necessarily have to take on no onerous aspects. 0:11:56.759 --> 0:12:00.199 She never I don't remember ever bathing us or anything, 0:12:00.279 --> 0:12:02.999 or being with us when we were sick or I 0:12:02.999 --> 0:12:04.519 mean she was a great mum when we got old. 0:12:05.159 --> 0:12:06.999 She wasn't a good one when we were when we 0:12:06.999 --> 0:12:10.359 were young, and mainly because I think my dad wanted 0:12:10.399 --> 0:12:15.279 her on his arm, and so she just wasn't around. 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:18.159 And when she was around, she had quite a sort 0:12:18.199 --> 0:12:19.559 of short attention span. 0:12:20.399 --> 0:12:23.399 So it was very much that thing of you know, 0:12:23.439 --> 0:12:26.519 how you indulge children to express themselves and you're there 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:29.359 forever well they tell long stories and things. There was 0:12:29.919 --> 0:12:32.999 none of that, none of that, you know, you just 0:12:33.079 --> 0:12:35.359 did not take up adult time. 0:12:35.719 --> 0:12:40.119 But It's funny because I think you often parent, you know, 0:12:40.239 --> 0:12:43.039 you take on board the way you were parented, or 0:12:43.119 --> 0:12:45.079 you push against the way you were parented. 0:12:45.239 --> 0:12:48.759 And you Yes, I knew very very soon that I 0:12:48.839 --> 0:12:51.079 did not want my children to grow up in the 0:12:51.079 --> 0:12:51.959 way that I grew up. 0:12:52.279 --> 0:12:55.639 And how did you know what the alternative was? 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:59.039 Because I spent so much time in the chauffeur's flat, right, 0:12:59.479 --> 0:13:03.919 so I saw I'd seen a family. I'd seen her 0:13:04.039 --> 0:13:07.239 fill his hype and puttish slippers by, and I'd see them, 0:13:07.359 --> 0:13:09.919 you know how, all over her father, and I'd see 0:13:10.519 --> 0:13:13.359 mum cooking in the kitchen and everybody sitting down at 0:13:13.359 --> 0:13:16.399 the meal, and I just went, I loved it there. Yeah, 0:13:17.079 --> 0:13:20.359 I couldn't, you know, have enough of it. But so 0:13:20.479 --> 0:13:22.519 I did see it, and I think that made a 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:23.639 big impression on me. 0:13:23.879 --> 0:13:27.719 When you left basically the chauffeur's family to go, you know, 0:13:27.759 --> 0:13:28.839 and when they got divorced. 0:13:28.879 --> 0:13:30.159 When my parents got divorced and I. 0:13:30.119 --> 0:13:34.439 Was about I think I was about twelve, the first 0:13:34.519 --> 0:13:37.639 thing I said, is mister Hooper's not leaving, is he? 0:13:37.639 --> 0:13:40.159 He was the chauffeur, And I was that was my 0:13:40.279 --> 0:13:40.879 big worry. 0:13:40.879 --> 0:13:43.359 I didn't care about anything else, But I wanted to 0:13:43.359 --> 0:13:44.559 know that they weren't leaving. 0:13:44.839 --> 0:13:48.119 But my family, you ended up leaving them when you 0:13:48.159 --> 0:13:50.079 went to America. 0:13:50.159 --> 0:13:52.439 Oh well, I went to boarding school Rastache, so I 0:13:52.519 --> 0:13:55.639 was in boarding school at ten. So then that took 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:57.999 me on a whole other you know, that was your 0:13:58.039 --> 0:13:59.359 home became boarding school. 0:14:00.119 --> 0:14:02.039 And I was much happier at boarding school than I 0:14:02.119 --> 0:14:05.639 was at home. Really why. 0:14:07.439 --> 0:14:11.879 Because it was just it was because you may your 0:14:11.919 --> 0:14:16.759 friends became your family, your girl, your intensely the intense 0:14:16.799 --> 0:14:19.599 relationship that you had with girlfriends that were, you know, 0:14:19.639 --> 0:14:28.519 your your peers and your classmates. Those relationships were unusually close, 0:14:29.239 --> 0:14:33.479 unusually tight. And I had a girlfriend that used to 0:14:33.479 --> 0:14:36.759 torture me because she was she was always going off 0:14:36.799 --> 0:14:40.719 with other girls, and it was just devastating. I've never 0:14:41.279 --> 0:14:44.679 loved her and I never felt that jealousy ever again. 0:14:45.039 --> 0:14:47.519 But you form those sort of relationships, and they're all 0:14:47.599 --> 0:14:49.759 girls too, who come from the same sort of world, 0:14:50.199 --> 0:14:54.719 who were also lacking that connection with deep connection with family, 0:14:55.479 --> 0:14:59.199 and we had these incredibly intensive relationships. 0:14:59.799 --> 0:15:04.359 I think that's still common in schools, yes, probably schools. 0:15:04.879 --> 0:15:08.279 Like every girlfriend I know who's been to a particularly 0:15:08.279 --> 0:15:12.319 a private school or boarded has had that real intensity 0:15:12.359 --> 0:15:14.439 of feeling for one of her girlfriends. 0:15:14.679 --> 0:15:18.319 Yeah, and that lasts forever. So I'm grateful for it too. 0:15:18.759 --> 0:15:22.119 But you know, I just wonder how parents could be. 0:15:22.239 --> 0:15:25.999 So it's just different, isn't it. Pedagogy is just a 0:15:26.079 --> 0:15:28.639 very different beast these days than it was. Well, it's 0:15:28.639 --> 0:15:30.519 what you know, it's what you know. And it didn't 0:15:30.519 --> 0:15:33.399 seem unusual to me. No, it seemed I had no. 0:15:35.319 --> 0:15:36.239 Perspective on it. 0:15:36.399 --> 0:15:39.679 No, So you would never say to your parents, can't 0:15:39.679 --> 0:15:40.559 you stay here with me? 0:15:41.599 --> 0:15:44.119 It wasn't even a concept. 0:15:44.599 --> 0:15:47.079 No, And you didn't want them to either, because they 0:15:47.079 --> 0:15:51.519 were quite frightening, right, They were. 0:15:51.479 --> 0:15:53.719 Quite frightening, and they were quite impatient. You know. 0:15:53.799 --> 0:15:56.679 They just weren't going to be They weren't the kind 0:15:56.839 --> 0:15:58.439 I look at my daughter now and what she gives 0:15:58.439 --> 0:16:01.679 to her children, and I just both of them, both 0:16:01.679 --> 0:16:04.799 of them, and I just I think, what was How 0:16:04.879 --> 0:16:07.799 was the nanny reacting when I was carrying on like this, 0:16:07.959 --> 0:16:10.079 age four or two or whatever, and you know. 0:16:10.199 --> 0:16:11.479 That you're not theirs? 0:16:11.799 --> 0:16:15.399 Yes, And we had a nanny that only really loved 0:16:15.439 --> 0:16:20.359 my brother, So we were always the scapegoats for everything, yeah, right, 0:16:20.439 --> 0:16:22.679 And I don't remember caring much, but it was a 0:16:22.719 --> 0:16:25.239 strange one and it definitely would have had I'm not 0:16:25.279 --> 0:16:27.879 sure what sort of psychological impact it had, but it 0:16:27.919 --> 0:16:29.959 would have had it had to have. 0:16:30.039 --> 0:16:30.919 I mean, you can't. 0:16:30.719 --> 0:16:34.159 Remember that far back, but it forms your obviously, it 0:16:34.239 --> 0:16:35.599 forms your brain, doesn't it. 0:16:35.759 --> 0:16:38.919 Yes, And then it also even if it manifests in 0:16:39.919 --> 0:16:43.599 rebellion in some aspects or the opposite. 0:16:43.719 --> 0:16:49.199 Always having to be good? Which were you always having 0:16:49.239 --> 0:16:52.959 to be good? Yes? Maybe I did. 0:16:53.039 --> 0:16:56.079 I wanted my mother's attention a lot, and I was 0:16:56.159 --> 0:16:58.279 quite good at that. I was better at that than 0:16:58.319 --> 0:17:01.519 the others were, so I was the favorite, right, And 0:17:01.639 --> 0:17:05.199 I was very highly sensitive, so I could feel when 0:17:05.279 --> 0:17:08.359 her winds changed, so I knew when to get out 0:17:08.399 --> 0:17:11.079 of her way and I knew how to get to 0:17:11.159 --> 0:17:12.319 her right. 0:17:12.759 --> 0:17:15.679 So I don't know, And it wasn't necessarily being good, 0:17:15.759 --> 0:17:16.279 but it was. 0:17:17.239 --> 0:17:20.679 It was just Yeah, I was sort of highly sensitive 0:17:20.759 --> 0:17:27.279 about people's when people had had enough, when parents, adults 0:17:27.279 --> 0:17:30.199 had had enough, which yeah. 0:17:29.879 --> 0:17:32.799 And my children, my siblings, never really got that. 0:17:32.799 --> 0:17:34.839 So I was always pulling them out by the hair 0:17:34.919 --> 0:17:39.319 and saying, come on, let's go, because it's it's it's 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:40.479 over the time with. 0:17:41.079 --> 0:17:43.519 The time here is done. Yeah, it's done. 0:17:43.639 --> 0:17:46.119 So I think it's that thing of I mean, I 0:17:46.199 --> 0:17:48.479 still find this sort of thing quite hard because I 0:17:48.519 --> 0:17:50.319 have it in the back of my head always shit 0:17:50.439 --> 0:17:51.519 or get off the pot. 0:17:52.479 --> 0:17:53.479 Or don't be boring. 0:17:53.639 --> 0:17:56.519 You know, the worst crime you could be was boring 0:17:56.719 --> 0:17:59.119 in that world. I was interested when I met Brian 0:17:59.679 --> 0:18:01.959 and I used the word boring. He said, you use 0:18:02.039 --> 0:18:04.959 that word quite often. He said, I've never use that 0:18:04.999 --> 0:18:07.599 in my life. I've never been bored. I'd have been 0:18:07.679 --> 0:18:10.959 told I'm boring. It was the number one insult when 0:18:10.999 --> 0:18:12.879 I was growing up was not to be borught was 0:18:12.919 --> 0:18:13.559 to be boring. 0:18:13.999 --> 0:18:16.319 And in what way could you be boring? 0:18:16.679 --> 0:18:20.639 Banging on talking about talking about yourself. All the things 0:18:20.639 --> 0:18:24.079 that I've mastered, right, yes, that I've caught up with. 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:29.199 Yet attention to yourself, particularly as a woman, particular as 0:18:29.199 --> 0:18:32.839 a woman to talk about yourself was very just very judgmental. 0:18:32.879 --> 0:18:37.239 It was a very judgmental world. Well, I think for women, 0:18:37.519 --> 0:18:39.839 probably terrible. There was a lot of things when women 0:18:39.919 --> 0:18:41.319 left the room and they would say she's got a 0:18:41.399 --> 0:18:46.399 huge ass or something. Oh yeah, it was brutal brutal, 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:50.199 a lot of things about being stupid, A lot of 0:18:50.399 --> 0:18:51.279 a lot of prisoners. 0:18:51.279 --> 0:18:53.559 She's so stupid, you know, a lot of stuff about that. 0:18:53.559 --> 0:18:58.559 So you were very self conscious about being stupid or 0:18:58.679 --> 0:18:59.599 not right. 0:18:59.719 --> 0:19:01.639 And in that regard, they also had you coming and 0:19:01.679 --> 0:19:06.679 going because you weren't deemed worthy of age or bettering yourself. No, 0:19:07.159 --> 0:19:10.039 but then you were also tired with the brush of 0:19:10.079 --> 0:19:15.879 being stupid. Yeah, so in this scenario, how do you win? 0:19:16.399 --> 0:19:20.159 You exit and pursue your own. 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:25.639 Well, I'm just always amazed by more women not being 0:19:25.679 --> 0:19:29.239 damaged by it. But maybe I'm just don't know them well. 0:19:29.239 --> 0:19:31.439 And I left too early. I got out very quick. 0:19:31.519 --> 0:19:34.679 I didn't like the men in that world. I didn't 0:19:34.759 --> 0:19:35.919 like the young men. 0:19:35.759 --> 0:19:36.319 In that world. 0:19:36.319 --> 0:19:39.959 They were very arrogant, very cocky, very clever. They'd all 0:19:39.999 --> 0:19:43.959 been to you know, big boys public schools, and they've 0:19:43.959 --> 0:19:46.719 been to Oxford and Cambridge. Yes, they had very good 0:19:46.839 --> 0:19:51.399 educations and you had none, right, I mean, and I 0:19:51.479 --> 0:19:54.959 left school at sixteen. So and you were literally just 0:19:55.039 --> 0:19:58.759 in a market for whether au had some money, because 0:19:58.759 --> 0:20:00.079 they all wanted to see a lot of them were 0:20:00.079 --> 0:20:03.759 second sons, so they were looking for rich daughters and 0:20:03.839 --> 0:20:07.159 whether you know, you were a good sword, so it was, 0:20:07.199 --> 0:20:07.599 you know, I. 0:20:07.519 --> 0:20:10.399 Suppose not that different than a lot of people. 0:20:12.959 --> 0:20:16.199 After the Break, Rachel explains why she left the world 0:20:16.199 --> 0:20:19.639 of glamour at nineteen and what it was really like 0:20:19.799 --> 0:20:26.759 being judged as beautiful but not bright. When you did 0:20:26.759 --> 0:20:29.479 The Thorn Birds, which I didn't realize was not shot 0:20:29.519 --> 0:20:32.799 in Australia because it was an Australian. 0:20:32.559 --> 0:20:38.959 Story, I realized that glamour had a high premium in 0:20:38.999 --> 0:20:41.479 that world, and I thought, you know, you can actually 0:20:41.679 --> 0:20:44.599 be boring and but be glamorous and you can get 0:20:44.639 --> 0:20:47.639 away with it. You can be dumb if you're glamorous 0:20:47.679 --> 0:20:50.079