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Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma mea podcast. I don't think it

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Speaker 1: was really about me.

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Speaker 2: I think I was a catalyst for a conversation that

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Speaker 2: people were wanting to have, and there hadn't been an

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Speaker 2: opportunity as clear I suppose. So somebody's suddenly attacking me.

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Speaker 2: And I'm a farmer, so i'm you know, why should

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Speaker 2: I look at a standard? And I think people have

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Speaker 2: a fear of getting older because women become very invisible.

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Speaker 1: As they get older.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and if they, you know, aren't able to rest

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Speaker 2: on the glory of their youth and their beauty and

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Speaker 2: their sexuality, who are they?

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Speaker 1: Where are they?

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Speaker 3: In late December last year, Rachel Ward, legendary actress, farmer,

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Speaker 3: wife of Brian Brown, mother of many grandmother, posted a

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Speaker 3: video to her Instagram account. She was standing in a paddock,

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Speaker 3: no studio lighting, no red carpet, no retouching, a sixty

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Speaker 3: eight year old woman on her farm, speaking plainly, and

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Speaker 3: within hours the commentary began. Some people praised her for

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Speaker 3: looking natural, Others were less kind. There were comments about

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Speaker 3: her face, about aging, about how she used to look,

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Speaker 3: about whether someone who was once a global screen icon

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Speaker 3: was somehow supposed to remain frozen in time. In this

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Speaker 3: episode of No Filter, Rachel and I talk about that

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Speaker 3: viral moment and what it revealed. We trace her life

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Speaker 3: from British aristocracy to Hollywood glamour, from being dismissed as

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Speaker 3: beautiful but not bright, to walking away from film and

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Speaker 3: eventually becoming a regenerative farmer on the mid North coast

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Speaker 3: of New South Wales. We talk about mental health, about

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Speaker 3: the crumbles she speaks so openly, and about how she

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Speaker 3: has known instinctively when each chapter of her life was over.

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Speaker 3: This is the magnificent Rachel Ward.

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Speaker 1: Welcome, thank you, very happy to have you. Thank you.

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Speaker 3: And then you sat down and you were horrified to

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Speaker 3: see that you're well.

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Speaker 1: I forgot that.

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Speaker 2: Of course you're doing a podcast, but I forgot that

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Speaker 2: you always film it. Everything's visual, so I didn't even

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Speaker 2: think about it. And look, I was threw on a

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Speaker 2: shirt that I've been wearing probably for the last couple

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Speaker 2: of days, and I didn't realize I'd.

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Speaker 1: Made such a pick of myself. Look in the mirror,

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Speaker 1: did you come from the farm?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: Who's looking after the farm? And no one right now?

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Speaker 2: Because I can go for if I pre plan, I

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Speaker 2: can go for as long as a week, as long

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Speaker 2: as I've got someone I need to do a couple

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Speaker 2: of moves.

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Speaker 1: But yes, I have someone coming in and just moves

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Speaker 1: the cattle. Right. But if I'm.

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Speaker 2: Organized enough, I can go, and I just I can

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Speaker 2: go at this stage. I couldn't go if I was

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Speaker 2: you know, if I was in carving or something like that.

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Speaker 2: But I can go now because they're all just frolicking

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Speaker 2: around in their paddocks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I do have a lovely guy who comes in

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Speaker 2: and just moves the cars.

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Speaker 1: But you obviously don't have someone doing your laundry. Do

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Speaker 1: not have someone doing my laundry? That is shocking.

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Speaker 2: I just, you know, you forget about looking in the mirrors,

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Speaker 2: and you forget about doing your hair, and you just

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Speaker 2: and you forget about doing your laundry.

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Speaker 1: That is shocking.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, Well, this is an interesting catapult into your life, really,

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Speaker 3: and your life which has had many shades, many.

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Speaker 1: Chapters, many chapters.

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Speaker 3: Blessed leaders, long life are not as long as it

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Speaker 3: will be, but it has seen you traverse very unusually

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Speaker 3: I think a point at which you were applauded.

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Speaker 1: For your talents.

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Speaker 3: Yes, but your talents were appreciated because of your phenomenal beauty.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's very SWEETI thank you. It's not arguable, is

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Speaker 1: it what beauty?

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Speaker 3: Well, your beauty, and that you came to I think

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Speaker 3: world attention through your role in the Thorn Birds.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and you were exquisite.

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Speaker 3: I mean it brought you world acclaim yes, and attention.

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Speaker 1: Yes. And what was your life like prior to that?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 2: God, I don't know how I encapsulate that. I mean,

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Speaker 2: just so far from where that was, I suppose.

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Speaker 3: I know that you grew up in an English family.

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Speaker 3: I've heard you speak about how you were had like that,

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Speaker 3: a traditional sort of upper.

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Speaker 1: Middle class English upbringing. So were you at boarding school? Yes?

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Speaker 2: I was at boarding school and I was Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: had a very it was a very Edwardian upbringing. I mean,

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Speaker 2: in a way the upper middle classes was stuck in

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Speaker 2: aspects as far as women were concerned. So I was

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Speaker 2: brought up in a world where I mean a great

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Speaker 2: privilege and I had a fantastic childhood in many regards,

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Speaker 2: because I grew up in the country, and I had horses,

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Speaker 2: and I had a little village which we grew up in,

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Speaker 2: and I had some really one particular girl who was

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Speaker 2: the chauffeur's daughter, right, who was.

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Speaker 1: My best friend. Oh, that's like a novel. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: is like a novel.

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Speaker 2: And I spent most of my time in her house

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Speaker 2: because we grew up totally with paid people to look

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Speaker 2: after us. So you could say, I mean, when I

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Speaker 2: look at the way I brought up my children and

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Speaker 2: the way that my children bring up their children, it

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Speaker 2: just could not.

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Speaker 1: Be further from it.

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Speaker 2: And I wonder how my mother did it.

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Speaker 1: But she did not live with us.

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Speaker 2: She basically from the age that before the age we

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Speaker 2: went to boarding school, she would spend her weeks in

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Speaker 2: London with my father. We were left in the country

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Speaker 2: with a nanny, and then she would come down with

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Speaker 2: a lot of guests and have parties and social life

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Speaker 2: during the weekend, of which we would probably join in

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Speaker 2: on a Sunday lunch or something. But that was pretty

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Speaker 2: much it. So you could say it was neglectful. But

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Speaker 2: you know, we were safe, we were warm, we were fed,

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Speaker 2: we were you know, we had all the sort of

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Speaker 2: things that come under the heading of privilege.

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Speaker 1: But was it privilege. It was a I don't know.

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Speaker 2: My self confidence has always been very low, and I

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Speaker 2: think that has to do with a lot about just

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Speaker 2: not being supported as a child, and we would have

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Speaker 2: like if you told a story, you were told to

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Speaker 2: shit or get off the pot, you know, because you

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Speaker 2: just don't take up too much time from adults. You

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Speaker 2: were very much seen and not heard. My father had

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Speaker 2: a classic line when he said, at one point I

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Speaker 2: was going to go to university, and he said, what

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Speaker 2: on earth do you need an education for you pretty

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Speaker 2: enough to marry someone very rich, which, and you know,

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Speaker 2: I was brought up in a world at primogenitus, so

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Speaker 2: that women were definitely second class citizens and you did

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Speaker 2: not get a good education. Primogenitus primogenitor is when when

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Speaker 2: everything goes to the firstborn son.

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Speaker 1: Ah, so as a.

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Speaker 2: Daughter, you are expected to marry someone rich who will

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Speaker 2: then look after you. So it's very Victorian and that

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Speaker 2: was still going on when I was so my father.

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Speaker 2: I was not mentioned in my father's will, neither was

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Speaker 2: my sister, but my brother and I even have an

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Speaker 2: intellectually handicapped brother and he was in front of me

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Speaker 2: and the will right for inheritance, for inheritance and running

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Speaker 2: the running the estate or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So as a woman and you, we were brought up

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Speaker 2: in a thing like when there was dinner and things,

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Speaker 2: the women would leave the dinner table at the end

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Speaker 2: of the meal so that the men could talk politics

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Speaker 2: and smart and whatever else they could take business. No,

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Speaker 2: we went out, We left them and they would have

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Speaker 2: their cigars and da da da. So women were not

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Speaker 2: considered part of that conversation. So you did grow up

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Speaker 2: with this, you're not. I don't know how women didn't

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Speaker 2: grow up with terrible inferiority complexes. I certainly did. And

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Speaker 2: then it was compounded by going to Hollywood, of course.

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Speaker 2: So what was compounded was your value was your physicality

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Speaker 2: or sexuality, your beauty, your how you elevated the status

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Speaker 2: of a man by you know, being a beautiful woman

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Speaker 2: or whatever.

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Speaker 1: So everything was everything was emphasized.

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Speaker 2: On what you looked like and how you presented yourself

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Speaker 2: and your social cachet.

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Speaker 3: So at what point did it become apparent that you

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Speaker 3: had received the gifts of the gods of this physical beauty.

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Speaker 2: Well, I never recognized it at all. I mean that

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Speaker 2: was I don't know. I don't think you do. I

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Speaker 2: don't I wonder if you do. I mean I think

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Speaker 2: I wonder if you do. I mean, there were certain

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Speaker 2: people who'd say, you know, oh you're lovely darling or whatever.

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Speaker 1: But you know, you know, I always felt like I

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Speaker 1: was overweight.

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Speaker 2: I just you know, I was a model, and I

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Speaker 2: was always too big to get in I was too

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Speaker 2: busty to get into the clothes. I would very often

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Speaker 2: sit on the sidelines while other You know, there was

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Speaker 2: all sorts of reasons to give you insecurity.

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Speaker 1: Of course, and modeling is rife with the.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was when it came in that you have

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Speaker 2: to be you know, extremely thin, right, and I certainly

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Speaker 2: wasn't that.

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Speaker 1: I was quite sort of wholesome.

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Speaker 2: But someone had the idea that you could be a model. Well, really,

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Speaker 2: yes they did. And the first thing I was told

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Speaker 2: was to lose weight. And I was never a particularly

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Speaker 2: good model. I didn't get much work.

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Speaker 1: Why were you not a good model?

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Speaker 2: Because I wasn't thin enough? Right, really, I wasn't quite

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Speaker 2: thin enough. And there was a look at the time

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Speaker 2: I was much more. I don't know, there was very

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Speaker 2: much that.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I was in the time of sort of Sheryl Tigues

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Speaker 2: and right, it was a sort of the American thing,

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Speaker 2: of the long legged, long blonde thing, and I was

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Speaker 2: seventeen magazine. Yes, I wasn't quite you know, it certainly

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Speaker 2: wasn't in that supermodel category by any means.

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Speaker 1: Whose idea was it modeling? Can you remember? Well?

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Speaker 2: Probably mine, because I was completely ill equipped to do

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Speaker 2: anything else. You know, you left, you leave your education system.

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Speaker 2: In that world, no emphasis was put on education. I

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Speaker 2: was never expected. There was no expectation for me to

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Speaker 2: do well in school. My brother got you know, smacked

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Speaker 2: over the hand if.

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Speaker 1: He got a bad report.

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Speaker 2: Nobody cared if us girl's got bad reports, right, So

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Speaker 2: there was no emphasis, was no talk of careers.

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Speaker 1: There was no you were literally expected.

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Speaker 2: And it does sound like I've stepped out of a

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Speaker 2: you know, nineteenth century novel, But that's where That's why

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Speaker 2: I say it was still an aspects that whole mid

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Speaker 2: upper middle class thing.

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Speaker 1: As far as women go.

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Speaker 2: The middle class had moved on much more as far

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Speaker 2: as women, you know, thinking about careers and stuff. But

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Speaker 2: for us, it was totally about who you married, you know,

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Speaker 2: had to, you know, it was My mother was a

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Speaker 2: deb she went through that. Now I didn't do that.

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Speaker 1: And she married will and she married above station.

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Speaker 2: Yes, she married well, she was very beautiful and she

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Speaker 2: did marry well, and her grand my grandmother, her mother

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Speaker 2: was very pushy about all of that, you know, who

223
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Speaker 2: she should marry and or anyway, she got married ridiculously.

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Speaker 2: I'm at twenty one or something, had me at twenty

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Speaker 2: one and was you know, completely unready to be a

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Speaker 2: mother and to you know, run I mean, she could

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Speaker 2: run a household, I suppose, but she was just too

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Speaker 2: young to settle down and to think about kids.

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Speaker 3: And she had that infrastructure that meant that she didn't

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Speaker 3: necessarily have to take on no onerous aspects.

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Speaker 2: She never I don't remember ever bathing us or anything,

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Speaker 2: or being with us when we were sick or I

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Speaker 2: mean she was a great mum when we got old.

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Speaker 2: She wasn't a good one when we were when we

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Speaker 2: were young, and mainly because I think my dad wanted

236
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Speaker 2: her on his arm, and so she just wasn't around.

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Speaker 1: And when she was around, she had quite a sort

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Speaker 1: of short attention span.

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Speaker 2: So it was very much that thing of you know,

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Speaker 2: how you indulge children to express themselves and you're there

241
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Speaker 2: forever well they tell long stories and things. There was

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Speaker 2: none of that, none of that, you know, you just

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Speaker 2: did not take up adult time.

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Speaker 3: But It's funny because I think you often parent, you know,

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Speaker 3: you take on board the way you were parented, or

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Speaker 3: you push against the way you were parented.

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Speaker 2: And you Yes, I knew very very soon that I

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Speaker 2: did not want my children to grow up in the

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Speaker 2: way that I grew up.

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Speaker 1: And how did you know what the alternative was?

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Speaker 2: Because I spent so much time in the chauffeur's flat, right,

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Speaker 2: so I saw I'd seen a family. I'd seen her

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Speaker 2: fill his hype and puttish slippers by, and I'd see them,

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Speaker 2: you know how, all over her father, and I'd see

255
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Speaker 2: mum cooking in the kitchen and everybody sitting down at

256
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Speaker 2: the meal, and I just went, I loved it there. Yeah,

257
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Speaker 2: I couldn't, you know, have enough of it. But so

258
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Speaker 2: I did see it, and I think that made a

259
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Speaker 2: big impression on me.

260
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Speaker 3: When you left basically the chauffeur's family to go, you know,

261
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Speaker 3: and when they got divorced.

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Speaker 1: When my parents got divorced and I.

263
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Speaker 2: Was about I think I was about twelve, the first

264
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Speaker 2: thing I said, is mister Hooper's not leaving, is he?

265
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Speaker 1: He was the chauffeur, And I was that was my

266
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Speaker 1: big worry.

267
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Speaker 2: I didn't care about anything else, But I wanted to

268
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Speaker 2: know that they weren't leaving.

269
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Speaker 3: But my family, you ended up leaving them when you

270
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Speaker 3: went to America.

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Speaker 2: Oh well, I went to boarding school Rastache, so I

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Speaker 2: was in boarding school at ten. So then that took

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Speaker 2: me on a whole other you know, that was your

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Speaker 2: home became boarding school.

275
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Speaker 1: And I was much happier at boarding school than I

276
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Speaker 1: was at home. Really why.

277
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Speaker 2: Because it was just it was because you may your

278
00:14:11,919 --> 00:14:16,759
Speaker 2: friends became your family, your girl, your intensely the intense

279
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Speaker 2: relationship that you had with girlfriends that were, you know,

280
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Speaker 2: your your peers and your classmates. Those relationships were unusually close,

281
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Speaker 2: unusually tight. And I had a girlfriend that used to

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Speaker 2: torture me because she was she was always going off

283
00:14:36,799 --> 00:14:40,719
Speaker 2: with other girls, and it was just devastating. I've never

284
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Speaker 2: loved her and I never felt that jealousy ever again.

285
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Speaker 2: But you form those sort of relationships, and they're all

286
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Speaker 2: girls too, who come from the same sort of world,

287
00:14:50,199 --> 00:14:54,719
Speaker 2: who were also lacking that connection with deep connection with family,

288
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Speaker 2: and we had these incredibly intensive relationships.

289
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Speaker 3: I think that's still common in schools, yes, probably schools.

290
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Speaker 3: Like every girlfriend I know who's been to a particularly

291
00:15:08,279 --> 00:15:12,319
Speaker 3: a private school or boarded has had that real intensity

292
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Speaker 3: of feeling for one of her girlfriends.

293
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that lasts forever. So I'm grateful for it too.

294
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Speaker 2: But you know, I just wonder how parents could be.

295
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Speaker 2: So it's just different, isn't it. Pedagogy is just a

296
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Speaker 2: very different beast these days than it was. Well, it's

297
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Speaker 2: what you know, it's what you know. And it didn't

298
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Speaker 2: seem unusual to me. No, it seemed I had no.

299
00:15:35,319 --> 00:15:36,239
Speaker 1: Perspective on it.

300
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Speaker 3: No, So you would never say to your parents, can't

301
00:15:39,679 --> 00:15:40,559
Speaker 3: you stay here with me?

302
00:15:41,599 --> 00:15:44,119
Speaker 1: It wasn't even a concept.

303
00:15:44,599 --> 00:15:47,079
Speaker 2: No, And you didn't want them to either, because they

304
00:15:47,079 --> 00:15:51,519
Speaker 2: were quite frightening, right, They were.

305
00:15:51,479 --> 00:15:53,719
Speaker 1: Quite frightening, and they were quite impatient. You know.

306
00:15:53,799 --> 00:15:56,679
Speaker 2: They just weren't going to be They weren't the kind

307
00:15:56,839 --> 00:15:58,439
Speaker 2: I look at my daughter now and what she gives

308
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Speaker 2: to her children, and I just both of them, both

309
00:16:01,679 --> 00:16:04,799
Speaker 2: of them, and I just I think, what was How

310
00:16:04,879 --> 00:16:07,799
Speaker 2: was the nanny reacting when I was carrying on like this,

311
00:16:07,959 --> 00:16:10,079
Speaker 2: age four or two or whatever, and you know.

312
00:16:10,199 --> 00:16:11,479
Speaker 1: That you're not theirs?

313
00:16:11,799 --> 00:16:15,399
Speaker 2: Yes, And we had a nanny that only really loved

314
00:16:15,439 --> 00:16:20,359
Speaker 2: my brother, So we were always the scapegoats for everything, yeah, right,

315
00:16:20,439 --> 00:16:22,679
Speaker 2: And I don't remember caring much, but it was a

316
00:16:22,719 --> 00:16:25,239
Speaker 2: strange one and it definitely would have had I'm not

317
00:16:25,279 --> 00:16:27,879
Speaker 2: sure what sort of psychological impact it had, but it

318
00:16:27,919 --> 00:16:29,959
Speaker 2: would have had it had to have.

319
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Speaker 1: I mean, you can't.

320
00:16:30,719 --> 00:16:34,159
Speaker 2: Remember that far back, but it forms your obviously, it

321
00:16:34,239 --> 00:16:35,599
Speaker 2: forms your brain, doesn't it.

322
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Speaker 3: Yes, And then it also even if it manifests in

323
00:16:39,919 --> 00:16:43,599
Speaker 3: rebellion in some aspects or the opposite.

324
00:16:43,719 --> 00:16:49,199
Speaker 1: Always having to be good? Which were you always having

325
00:16:49,239 --> 00:16:52,959
Speaker 1: to be good? Yes? Maybe I did.

326
00:16:53,039 --> 00:16:56,079
Speaker 2: I wanted my mother's attention a lot, and I was

327
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Speaker 2: quite good at that. I was better at that than

328
00:16:58,319 --> 00:17:01,519
Speaker 2: the others were, so I was the favorite, right, And

329
00:17:01,639 --> 00:17:05,199
Speaker 2: I was very highly sensitive, so I could feel when

330
00:17:05,279 --> 00:17:08,359
Speaker 2: her winds changed, so I knew when to get out

331
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Speaker 2: of her way and I knew how to get to

332
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Speaker 2: her right.

333
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Speaker 1: So I don't know, And it wasn't necessarily being good,

334
00:17:15,759 --> 00:17:16,279
Speaker 1: but it was.

335
00:17:17,239 --> 00:17:20,679
Speaker 2: It was just Yeah, I was sort of highly sensitive

336
00:17:20,759 --> 00:17:27,279
Speaker 2: about people's when people had had enough, when parents, adults

337
00:17:27,279 --> 00:17:30,199
Speaker 2: had had enough, which yeah.

338
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Speaker 1: And my children, my siblings, never really got that.

339
00:17:32,799 --> 00:17:34,839
Speaker 2: So I was always pulling them out by the hair

340
00:17:34,919 --> 00:17:39,319
Speaker 2: and saying, come on, let's go, because it's it's it's

341
00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:40,479
Speaker 2: over the time with.

342
00:17:41,079 --> 00:17:43,519
Speaker 1: The time here is done. Yeah, it's done.

343
00:17:43,639 --> 00:17:46,119
Speaker 2: So I think it's that thing of I mean, I

344
00:17:46,199 --> 00:17:48,479
Speaker 2: still find this sort of thing quite hard because I

345
00:17:48,519 --> 00:17:50,319
Speaker 2: have it in the back of my head always shit

346
00:17:50,439 --> 00:17:51,519
Speaker 2: or get off the pot.

347
00:17:52,479 --> 00:17:53,479
Speaker 1: Or don't be boring.

348
00:17:53,639 --> 00:17:56,519
Speaker 2: You know, the worst crime you could be was boring

349
00:17:56,719 --> 00:17:59,119
Speaker 2: in that world. I was interested when I met Brian

350
00:17:59,679 --> 00:18:01,959
Speaker 2: and I used the word boring. He said, you use

351
00:18:02,039 --> 00:18:04,959
Speaker 2: that word quite often. He said, I've never use that

352
00:18:04,999 --> 00:18:07,599
Speaker 2: in my life. I've never been bored. I'd have been

353
00:18:07,679 --> 00:18:10,959
Speaker 2: told I'm boring. It was the number one insult when

354
00:18:10,999 --> 00:18:12,879
Speaker 2: I was growing up was not to be borught was

355
00:18:12,919 --> 00:18:13,559
Speaker 2: to be boring.

356
00:18:13,999 --> 00:18:16,319
Speaker 1: And in what way could you be boring?

357
00:18:16,679 --> 00:18:20,639
Speaker 2: Banging on talking about talking about yourself. All the things

358
00:18:20,639 --> 00:18:24,079
Speaker 2: that I've mastered, right, yes, that I've caught up with.

359
00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:29,199
Speaker 2: Yet attention to yourself, particularly as a woman, particular as

360
00:18:29,199 --> 00:18:32,839
Speaker 2: a woman to talk about yourself was very just very judgmental.

361
00:18:32,879 --> 00:18:37,239
Speaker 2: It was a very judgmental world. Well, I think for women,

362
00:18:37,519 --> 00:18:39,839
Speaker 2: probably terrible. There was a lot of things when women

363
00:18:39,919 --> 00:18:41,319
Speaker 2: left the room and they would say she's got a

364
00:18:41,399 --> 00:18:46,399
Speaker 2: huge ass or something. Oh yeah, it was brutal brutal,

365
00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:50,199
Speaker 2: a lot of things about being stupid, A lot of

366
00:18:50,399 --> 00:18:51,279
Speaker 2: a lot of prisoners.

367
00:18:51,279 --> 00:18:53,559
Speaker 1: She's so stupid, you know, a lot of stuff about that.

368
00:18:53,559 --> 00:18:58,559
Speaker 2: So you were very self conscious about being stupid or

369
00:18:58,679 --> 00:18:59,599
Speaker 2: not right.

370
00:18:59,719 --> 00:19:01,639
Speaker 3: And in that regard, they also had you coming and

371
00:19:01,679 --> 00:19:06,679
Speaker 3: going because you weren't deemed worthy of age or bettering yourself. No,

372
00:19:07,159 --> 00:19:10,039
Speaker 3: but then you were also tired with the brush of

373
00:19:10,079 --> 00:19:15,879
Speaker 3: being stupid. Yeah, so in this scenario, how do you win?

374
00:19:16,399 --> 00:19:20,159
Speaker 3: You exit and pursue your own.

375
00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:25,639
Speaker 2: Well, I'm just always amazed by more women not being

376
00:19:25,679 --> 00:19:29,239
Speaker 2: damaged by it. But maybe I'm just don't know them well.

377
00:19:29,239 --> 00:19:31,439
Speaker 2: And I left too early. I got out very quick.

378
00:19:31,519 --> 00:19:34,679
Speaker 2: I didn't like the men in that world. I didn't

379
00:19:34,759 --> 00:19:35,919
Speaker 2: like the young men.

380
00:19:35,759 --> 00:19:36,319
Speaker 1: In that world.

381
00:19:36,319 --> 00:19:39,959
Speaker 2: They were very arrogant, very cocky, very clever. They'd all

382
00:19:39,999 --> 00:19:43,959
Speaker 2: been to you know, big boys public schools, and they've

383
00:19:43,959 --> 00:19:46,719
Speaker 2: been to Oxford and Cambridge. Yes, they had very good

384
00:19:46,839 --> 00:19:51,399
Speaker 2: educations and you had none, right, I mean, and I

385
00:19:51,479 --> 00:19:54,959
Speaker 2: left school at sixteen. So and you were literally just

386
00:19:55,039 --> 00:19:58,759
Speaker 2: in a market for whether au had some money, because

387
00:19:58,759 --> 00:20:00,079
Speaker 2: they all wanted to see a lot of them were

388
00:20:00,079 --> 00:20:03,759
Speaker 2: second sons, so they were looking for rich daughters and

389
00:20:03,839 --> 00:20:07,159
Speaker 2: whether you know, you were a good sword, so it was,

390
00:20:07,199 --> 00:20:07,599
Speaker 2: you know, I.

391
00:20:07,519 --> 00:20:10,399
Speaker 1: Suppose not that different than a lot of people.

392
00:20:12,959 --> 00:20:16,199
Speaker 3: After the Break, Rachel explains why she left the world

393
00:20:16,199 --> 00:20:19,639
Speaker 3: of glamour at nineteen and what it was really like

394
00:20:19,799 --> 00:20:26,759
Speaker 3: being judged as beautiful but not bright. When you did

395
00:20:26,759 --> 00:20:29,479
Speaker 3: The Thorn Birds, which I didn't realize was not shot

396
00:20:29,519 --> 00:20:32,799
Speaker 3: in Australia because it was an Australian.

397
00:20:32,559 --> 00:20:38,959
Speaker 2: Story, I realized that glamour had a high premium in

398
00:20:38,999 --> 00:20:41,479
Speaker 2: that world, and I thought, you know, you can actually

399
00:20:41,679 --> 00:20:44,599
Speaker 2: be boring and but be glamorous and you can get

400
00:20:44,639 --> 00:20:47,639
Speaker 2: away with it. You can be dumb if you're glamorous

401
00:20:47,679 --> 00:20:50,079
Speaker 2: and get away with it. So I kind of recognize

402
00:20:50,159 --> 00:20:53,599
Speaker 2: that and I went, right, well, then I'm not educated,

403
00:20:53,639 --> 00:20:58,039
Speaker 2: I'm not the brightest in the forest. I'll be glamorous

404
00:20:58,919 --> 00:21:04,879
Speaker 2: and so beautiful. I guess I never saw that, but yeah,

405
00:21:04,879 --> 00:21:07,519
Speaker 2: I definitely got Well, you know, you move in a world,

406
00:21:07,559 --> 00:21:10,119
Speaker 2: but there's a lot of beauty. There's a lot of beauty, right,

407
00:21:10,439 --> 00:21:14,839
Speaker 2: a lot of bety. I didn't feel exceptionally beautiful at all, but.

408
00:21:14,959 --> 00:21:18,479
Speaker 3: You were exceptional your background you, as you say, in

409
00:21:18,519 --> 00:21:21,119
Speaker 3: that time where it was all like big white teeth

410
00:21:21,159 --> 00:21:25,039
Speaker 3: and font here, and you were I'm going to say

411
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:26,199
Speaker 3: English rose.

412
00:21:26,559 --> 00:21:28,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I got out of that very quick. So

413
00:21:28,599 --> 00:21:32,119
Speaker 2: by nineteen I'd moved to America. I'd gone to America,

414
00:21:32,279 --> 00:21:34,639
Speaker 2: and then you were taking face value. It was much

415
00:21:34,679 --> 00:21:39,039
Speaker 2: more about your own, your own efforts, your own you know,

416
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:45,319
Speaker 2: you were you were, You were credited for your own.

417
00:21:46,679 --> 00:21:47,359
Speaker 1: What you brought.

418
00:21:47,639 --> 00:21:47,919
Speaker 2: You know that.

419
00:21:48,199 --> 00:21:53,239
Speaker 1: I wasn't like the Earl of Dudley's North No, new Country.

420
00:21:52,919 --> 00:21:56,319
Speaker 2: New Country. Yes, face value. You were totally taken it

421
00:21:56,399 --> 00:21:59,639
Speaker 2: face value. And I was always quite hard worker. I

422
00:21:59,719 --> 00:22:02,839
Speaker 2: understood about working. I worked hard at school and I

423
00:22:02,959 --> 00:22:06,719
Speaker 2: wanted to do well. I was quite quite driven. I

424
00:22:06,759 --> 00:22:07,319
Speaker 2: don't know why.

425
00:22:07,399 --> 00:22:11,679
Speaker 1: I think in my character was your English. No, I

426
00:22:11,759 --> 00:22:13,879
Speaker 1: wasn't good at English. No, I wasn't because I was

427
00:22:13,879 --> 00:22:17,079
Speaker 1: a useless speller and things like that. No I was.

428
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,879
Speaker 2: I didn't discover that writing and things till much later.

429
00:22:20,719 --> 00:22:23,279
Speaker 1: I was good at art. I was good at art, and.

430
00:22:23,239 --> 00:22:25,839
Speaker 2: I could work so I could get I was very

431
00:22:25,879 --> 00:22:27,919
Speaker 2: good at putting in the work so that I could

432
00:22:28,039 --> 00:22:29,239
Speaker 2: do well in the exams.

433
00:22:30,199 --> 00:22:32,719
Speaker 1: But anyway, it didn't do me much good because I know, but.

434
00:22:32,719 --> 00:22:36,799
Speaker 3: Good for being an actor, which actually requires quite a

435
00:22:36,799 --> 00:22:40,119
Speaker 3: lot of work, particularly to take a lead role in

436
00:22:41,199 --> 00:22:42,599
Speaker 3: one of the first mini series.

437
00:22:43,279 --> 00:22:47,159
Speaker 2: No, not what a lot of work. No, it takes

438
00:22:47,759 --> 00:22:48,599
Speaker 2: you know what it takes.

439
00:22:48,719 --> 00:22:50,439
Speaker 1: It takes real guts.

440
00:22:50,799 --> 00:22:54,239
Speaker 2: I was gutsy, I was brave, and I remember going

441
00:22:54,239 --> 00:22:56,279
Speaker 2: to auditions very early on and there'd be a lot

442
00:22:56,319 --> 00:22:59,439
Speaker 2: of other models in the audition room and I was focused,

443
00:23:00,079 --> 00:23:02,919
Speaker 2: and I was you know, I was very focused. I

444
00:23:02,999 --> 00:23:05,319
Speaker 2: was doing my whatever I used to do to get

445
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,919
Speaker 2: myself into the place, and the others were just you know,

446
00:23:09,399 --> 00:23:10,639
Speaker 2: chatting away and all of that.

447
00:23:10,839 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 1: So I was quite focused. And when you got cast,

448
00:23:18,759 --> 00:23:21,759
Speaker 1: when you got the job, can you remember that the

449
00:23:21,799 --> 00:23:24,959
Speaker 1: thorn Birds? Oh well, i'd moved. I'd spent a couple

450
00:23:24,999 --> 00:23:25,599
Speaker 1: of years.

451
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,039
Speaker 2: In New York, first as a model, and then I

452
00:23:27,079 --> 00:23:29,999
Speaker 2: started acting and I did a couple of horror movies

453
00:23:30,039 --> 00:23:33,319
Speaker 2: there and then I moved to la and I did

454
00:23:33,439 --> 00:23:35,399
Speaker 2: so I've done a movie with Burt Reynolds before then.

455
00:23:35,439 --> 00:23:39,079
Speaker 2: I'd done Sharky's Machine was my big break. So that

456
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 2: put me into a big league and there was a

457
00:23:41,999 --> 00:23:43,839
Speaker 2: you know, I had a lot of publicity because at

458
00:23:43,879 --> 00:23:48,199
Speaker 2: the time, Burt Reynolds was the Brad Pitt of the day.

459
00:23:48,839 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 2: So it was a big coup to get that role.

460
00:23:51,239 --> 00:23:54,479
Speaker 2: And it had to go to an unknown because the

461
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,919
Speaker 2: lead disappears after about first twenty minutes, and if it

462
00:23:57,919 --> 00:23:59,999
Speaker 2: had been Jane Fonder or somewhere, you know, she was

463
00:23:59,999 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 2: coming back. So I had to it had to be

464
00:24:03,919 --> 00:24:06,479
Speaker 2: in And then, oh, yeah, I had that was very

465
00:24:06,479 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 2: competitive and I basically beat out most of the women

466
00:24:10,479 --> 00:24:15,039
Speaker 2: of mine, so I was quite I was obviously pretty,

467
00:24:16,319 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 2: you know, I had my wits about me. Then, yes,

468
00:24:18,639 --> 00:24:20,959
Speaker 2: definitely had my wits about me, and I worked hard

469
00:24:20,999 --> 00:24:25,399
Speaker 2: and I had guts, and those auditions were just horrifying, horrifying.

470
00:24:25,639 --> 00:24:30,759
Speaker 1: Always are that traumatic, and so then yeah, thorn Burd's

471
00:24:30,839 --> 00:24:32,319
Speaker 1: was one of those ones. And I didn't want to

472
00:24:32,319 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 1: do it at first.

473
00:24:32,959 --> 00:24:34,999
Speaker 2: I read the script and I thought, oh my god,

474
00:24:35,079 --> 00:24:37,559
Speaker 2: this is ludicrous, you know, because it was all written

475
00:24:37,599 --> 00:24:40,919
Speaker 2: in I am but Pantameter. Oh so it was very,

476
00:24:41,039 --> 00:24:44,479
Speaker 2: very wordily, and it wasn't and it wasn't naturalistic. And

477
00:24:44,519 --> 00:24:47,839
Speaker 2: also it was very it was very American, and it

478
00:24:47,879 --> 00:24:50,559
Speaker 2: took itself very seriously. And I went in on the

479
00:24:50,559 --> 00:24:53,679
Speaker 2: first audition and was probably quite light with it, which

480
00:24:53,719 --> 00:24:55,759
Speaker 2: had served me well in Dead Men don't wear plaid

481
00:24:55,799 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 2: that I would I done already with so I had

482
00:24:59,439 --> 00:25:01,839
Speaker 2: a sort of lightness and a humor with my work

483
00:25:01,879 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 2: and all of that. And then I went into and

484
00:25:04,919 --> 00:25:06,719
Speaker 2: I did it so I normally did. And I got

485
00:25:06,759 --> 00:25:09,799
Speaker 2: like four out of ten for my audition because I

486
00:25:09,959 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 2: wasn't taking it probably seriously enough, right, and they gave

487
00:25:14,519 --> 00:25:20,319
Speaker 2: that no, I didn't get the role. And then I went, oh,

488
00:25:20,759 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 2: I really want this role, you know, I suddenly went

489
00:25:23,399 --> 00:25:26,319
Speaker 2: out I wanted and I got them to get me

490
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,679
Speaker 2: in again to audition again, and I changed the way

491
00:25:29,679 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 2: I did it. I knew that they wanted, you know,

492
00:25:33,799 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 2: I knew they wanted sort of soap opera kind of

493
00:25:36,399 --> 00:25:40,799
Speaker 2: drama in tears, yearning, yearning and all of that sort

494
00:25:40,839 --> 00:25:41,239
Speaker 2: of stuff.

495
00:25:41,239 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 3: You know, you say derisively, but they are very powerful.

496
00:25:46,279 --> 00:25:51,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, well you know, I mean they are, yes,

497
00:25:51,879 --> 00:25:55,319
Speaker 2: But for me, they needed the complexity of a bit

498
00:25:55,319 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 2: of light and shade. And for me it was just,

499
00:25:57,799 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 2: you know, every scene I had someone with my father died,

500
00:26:00,959 --> 00:26:04,479
Speaker 2: my brother died, he left me. It was a dirge

501
00:26:04,639 --> 00:26:06,599
Speaker 2: and I think in the end probably I was a dirt.

502
00:26:06,719 --> 00:26:09,519
Speaker 2: It was just that there was no light moments and

503
00:26:09,599 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 2: I had a director who would say to me like

504
00:26:12,639 --> 00:26:16,319
Speaker 2: and I'd just be stumped over yet another ghastly scene,

505
00:26:16,319 --> 00:26:17,959
Speaker 2: and he said, you're a little bird.

506
00:26:17,759 --> 00:26:21,279
Speaker 1: With a broken wing, and that was my direction, you know.

507
00:26:21,999 --> 00:26:25,839
Speaker 2: So it was it wasn't really encouraging me to bring

508
00:26:25,919 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 2: more life to it, so I would have directed it

509
00:26:28,319 --> 00:26:28,999
Speaker 2: very differently.

510
00:26:29,039 --> 00:26:30,719
Speaker 1: But there you go. It was a huge success, So

511
00:26:30,799 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 1: what am I was a.

512
00:26:31,679 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 2: Huge success, And not only that, but not here it

513
00:26:34,399 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 2: was I mean, it was success here, but god, it

514
00:26:36,239 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 2: got pillared.

515
00:26:37,319 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 1: Oh she got pillared who was the writer, Colin McCullough.

516
00:26:42,719 --> 00:26:45,039
Speaker 2: She got pillariedge for selling it to the Americans, And

517
00:26:45,079 --> 00:26:48,479
Speaker 2: it got pillared here because I got pillaried because it

518
00:26:48,639 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 2: should have gone to an Australian and it went to me,

519
00:26:52,039 --> 00:26:55,999
Speaker 2: and then I went off with you know, mister Australia,

520
00:26:56,079 --> 00:26:59,839
Speaker 2: which was even the worst scene National Treasure exactly.

521
00:26:59,959 --> 00:27:03,279
Speaker 1: So that was a sin. No. So I definitely got

522
00:27:03,479 --> 00:27:07,239
Speaker 1: bollocked here, and that was hard. I got pretty.

523
00:27:06,919 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 2: Bad reviews, really yeah, I got pretty bad reviews. And

524
00:27:10,879 --> 00:27:13,279
Speaker 2: it took me a lot, and because I was already

525
00:27:14,079 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 2: very insecure, I really took it to heart and it

526
00:27:18,679 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 2: cruled me.

527
00:27:20,039 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 1: It's like today having trolls.

528
00:27:22,559 --> 00:27:28,319
Speaker 2: Yes, because it's public annihilation, Yes, and very public annihilation.

529
00:27:28,879 --> 00:27:32,439
Speaker 2: It fills you kind of with shame and oh, my god,

530
00:27:33,599 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 2: remember my physicality. When I read the New York Review

531
00:27:36,439 --> 00:27:39,799
Speaker 2: in the New York Times which said everything that Penny

532
00:27:40,039 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 2: whatever she was called or played the younger Rachel, that

533
00:27:42,559 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 2: the younger Maggie does right, Rachel Ward does wrong. And

534
00:27:46,439 --> 00:27:48,799
Speaker 2: I remember that, and Brand said, don't read it, don't

535
00:27:48,799 --> 00:27:51,719
Speaker 2: read it, and I went, no, I have to read. Yeah,

536
00:27:51,759 --> 00:27:55,039
Speaker 2: because it's IRRESISTI will never forgot it, never.

537
00:27:54,879 --> 00:27:55,679
Speaker 1: Read the comments.

538
00:27:55,719 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 3: And yet we're drawn to them because I think there's

539
00:27:58,639 --> 00:28:01,919
Speaker 3: a quest that you know, the dal A Lama said,

540
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,799
Speaker 3: the worst thing about criticism is that it's true.

541
00:28:06,319 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 1: There's always a part of you, yeah knows it's true.

542
00:28:08,759 --> 00:28:11,759
Speaker 3: There's a part of you that for some reason, and

543
00:28:11,799 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 3: I think particularly true in a sort of creative life,

544
00:28:15,399 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 3: I guess because you see it on a platform where

545
00:28:17,439 --> 00:28:19,519
Speaker 3: it's maybe in ordinary life.

546
00:28:19,719 --> 00:28:21,559
Speaker 1: In normally life you don't see it so much.

547
00:28:21,839 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 3: But there's a part of you that craves that dagger

548
00:28:24,199 --> 00:28:26,839
Speaker 3: to the to the hearsh.

549
00:28:26,999 --> 00:28:29,479
Speaker 2: And also I was hanging in La with a very

550
00:28:29,719 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 2: with a quite a with a quite up themselves crowd,

551
00:28:32,479 --> 00:28:34,999
Speaker 2: you know. They art was very serious to them, and

552
00:28:35,159 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 2: proper films were serious to them, right, And I was

553
00:28:37,679 --> 00:28:40,959
Speaker 2: in this soap opera, so it was like I had

554
00:28:40,959 --> 00:28:45,079
Speaker 2: definitely stepped down. So it was so ridiculous. At a

555
00:28:45,119 --> 00:28:48,599
Speaker 2: time when I should have been celebrating the success of it,

556
00:28:48,679 --> 00:28:49,559
Speaker 2: I was hiding.

557
00:28:50,039 --> 00:28:52,159
Speaker 1: I just I just hid. I remember when it came out,

558
00:28:52,239 --> 00:28:54,079
Speaker 1: Brian and I were in Bathist.

559
00:28:54,319 --> 00:28:57,479
Speaker 2: And because he was doing a yeah, I think we

560
00:28:57,519 --> 00:29:00,199
Speaker 2: were in Bathist or somewhere way out back, and we

561
00:29:00,199 --> 00:29:02,399
Speaker 2: were in this motel doing while he was doing a

562
00:29:02,439 --> 00:29:06,239
Speaker 2: film there. And I remember the photographers and the press

563
00:29:06,399 --> 00:29:10,759
Speaker 2: all at the windows, and I was just mortified by

564
00:29:11,519 --> 00:29:14,919
Speaker 2: the exposure of being in the thorn Birds and the

565
00:29:14,999 --> 00:29:17,399
Speaker 2: fact that I'd sort of felt pillaried and I felt

566
00:29:17,439 --> 00:29:20,559
Speaker 2: like the trolls that had come down, And at a

567
00:29:20,639 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 2: time when I should have been absolutely celebrating it, I

568
00:29:24,839 --> 00:29:25,959
Speaker 2: was hiding with shame.

569
00:29:26,799 --> 00:29:29,479
Speaker 3: So at this point you had fallen in love with

570
00:29:29,559 --> 00:29:32,559
Speaker 3: Brian Brown, which was part.

571
00:29:32,319 --> 00:29:37,399
Speaker 1: Of your definitely my kicking, kicking my life.

572
00:29:38,239 --> 00:29:40,879
Speaker 2: That's accident that I married the most working class boy

573
00:29:40,919 --> 00:29:41,479
Speaker 2: I could find.

574
00:29:41,559 --> 00:29:45,839
Speaker 3: Yes, in a complete kind of rejection of where you

575
00:29:45,879 --> 00:29:46,799
Speaker 3: had come from.

576
00:29:47,719 --> 00:29:50,919
Speaker 1: How did your connection happen? It happened on set. Yeah.

577
00:29:51,239 --> 00:29:51,839
Speaker 1: Was it an.

578
00:29:51,799 --> 00:29:54,759
Speaker 3: Instant thing or was it I like this alaraken or

579
00:29:55,639 --> 00:29:58,239
Speaker 3: something about his rock solid.

580
00:29:58,759 --> 00:30:00,599
Speaker 1: Certainty all of that, all of that.

581
00:30:00,959 --> 00:30:04,279
Speaker 2: It was definitely hot. He was definitely hot and hot,

582
00:30:04,319 --> 00:30:06,679
Speaker 2: and he was cocky. You know, he was very cocky,

583
00:30:06,919 --> 00:30:09,839
Speaker 2: and he was you know what it was. He was

584
00:30:09,879 --> 00:30:14,279
Speaker 2: supremely confident and he had such faith in himself.

585
00:30:14,759 --> 00:30:15,999
Speaker 1: And I wanted that.

586
00:30:16,999 --> 00:30:20,319
Speaker 2: I just saw God, I'd love that to be so

587
00:30:20,359 --> 00:30:23,039
Speaker 2: sure about everything, so sure about his politics, He was

588
00:30:23,039 --> 00:30:26,919
Speaker 2: so sure about his his values, values, he was sure

589
00:30:26,919 --> 00:30:29,799
Speaker 2: about his morality. I had none of that. I grew

590
00:30:29,839 --> 00:30:32,559
Speaker 2: up in such a sort of funny, funny, immoral world.

591
00:30:32,639 --> 00:30:36,879
Speaker 2: I mean it was sort of Epstein esque clear in

592
00:30:37,039 --> 00:30:40,479
Speaker 2: any way. You know, you were definitely being groomed to

593
00:30:40,559 --> 00:30:45,559
Speaker 2: be a commodity commodity. Yeah, so when he came up,

594
00:30:45,599 --> 00:30:49,639
Speaker 2: he represented something so different and he definitely knew what

595
00:30:49,679 --> 00:30:52,199
Speaker 2: was right or wrong. And definitely in Hollywood, you know,

596
00:30:52,279 --> 00:30:55,239
Speaker 2: there is no writer or you know, it's very cutthroat.

597
00:30:55,239 --> 00:30:56,159
Speaker 1: It's ambitious.

598
00:30:56,479 --> 00:30:59,199
Speaker 2: People will do anything to get what they want and

599
00:30:59,239 --> 00:31:02,399
Speaker 2: where they want, and so to also hold on to

600
00:31:02,599 --> 00:31:05,999
Speaker 2: values at that time and to behave well, you know,

601
00:31:06,039 --> 00:31:09,559
Speaker 2: according to values and you know what tiny bit of

602
00:31:09,599 --> 00:31:13,719
Speaker 2: morality I had was was difficult and so I just yeah,

603
00:31:13,879 --> 00:31:17,039
Speaker 2: I saw this rock who knew had.

604
00:31:16,879 --> 00:31:18,999
Speaker 1: I've never met a person more confident.

605
00:31:19,959 --> 00:31:24,999
Speaker 4: Confident enough also to pursue you yeah, ut yeah yeah,

606
00:31:25,199 --> 00:31:29,439
Speaker 4: posh girl, yeah, posh girl, yeah, lay in the dare

607
00:31:29,599 --> 00:31:31,039
Speaker 4: here yeah yeah.

608
00:31:31,439 --> 00:31:37,319
Speaker 1: And he yeah, I dare anyway it was. And then

609
00:31:37,359 --> 00:31:41,359
Speaker 1: to bring you here or you came here, yeah, I.

610
00:31:41,319 --> 00:31:44,439
Speaker 2: Mean I came here, and I, you know, because I

611
00:31:44,479 --> 00:31:47,039
Speaker 2: were not It was not attached to England. I was

612
00:31:47,159 --> 00:31:49,999
Speaker 2: not attached to being to what I had experienced. And

613
00:31:50,279 --> 00:31:55,879
Speaker 2: I loved England passionately, but I didn't like that world.

614
00:31:56,039 --> 00:32:00,239
Speaker 1: I didn't like. I sort of knew very soon that

615
00:32:00,319 --> 00:32:02,439
Speaker 1: I was very uncomfortable.

616
00:32:02,039 --> 00:32:06,719
Speaker 2: In and also being I didn't like being a posh girl.

617
00:32:07,159 --> 00:32:10,719
Speaker 2: It was like every villain was a was a poshee,

618
00:32:11,079 --> 00:32:16,239
Speaker 2: you know, every every idiot. It was a very cold person,

619
00:32:16,279 --> 00:32:19,919
Speaker 2: every cold it was a very silly idiot who was

620
00:32:19,999 --> 00:32:23,639
Speaker 2: a foe whah voice was a poshee. And I felt

621
00:32:23,759 --> 00:32:26,559
Speaker 2: very tainted by that, and I didn't want to be

622
00:32:26,599 --> 00:32:28,759
Speaker 2: a posh It was also a time when you know,

623
00:32:28,799 --> 00:32:31,599
Speaker 2: it was very much the working class thing was coming.

624
00:32:31,639 --> 00:32:33,399
Speaker 2: You know, it was very it was you know, it

625
00:32:33,479 --> 00:32:37,359
Speaker 2: was Alan Bates, it was Oliver Reid, it was Terrence Stamp,

626
00:32:37,439 --> 00:32:40,479
Speaker 2: it was Michael Caine, it was you know, I can't

627
00:32:40,519 --> 00:32:43,079
Speaker 2: even think of the girls now, but they weren't posh girls.

628
00:32:43,919 --> 00:32:46,919
Speaker 2: They were all you know, middle class or working class girls.

629
00:32:46,919 --> 00:32:49,799
Speaker 2: And as as a model to everybody was you know,

630
00:32:49,839 --> 00:32:52,119
Speaker 2: it was an anomaly to be a posh girl.

631
00:32:52,279 --> 00:32:55,239
Speaker 1: It's sort of not now, but no, it's not. They've

632
00:32:55,519 --> 00:32:57,279
Speaker 1: all in fla. But when I was, it was all.

633
00:32:57,599 --> 00:33:00,319
Speaker 2: My timing was incredibly bad because it was sort of

634
00:33:00,359 --> 00:33:03,799
Speaker 2: like at a time when the poshies were being maligned

635
00:33:03,919 --> 00:33:07,199
Speaker 2: or I felt they were, or just being ridiculed quite rightly.

636
00:33:07,319 --> 00:33:10,719
Speaker 1: I mean, at the time it was well social, social

637
00:33:10,799 --> 00:33:12,199
Speaker 1: movement and social.

638
00:33:12,519 --> 00:33:15,999
Speaker 2: That's right, definitely, And when I came here it was

639
00:33:16,199 --> 00:33:19,719
Speaker 2: very much also about Australia finding its own voice and

640
00:33:19,799 --> 00:33:23,719
Speaker 2: kicking out the voice of the you know, the English

641
00:33:24,919 --> 00:33:27,399
Speaker 2: and here come I come. You know, absolutely, you know,

642
00:33:27,719 --> 00:33:31,359
Speaker 2: basically a throwback to the old days, to the colonial days.

643
00:33:31,639 --> 00:33:35,039
Speaker 2: So that became you know, it's sort of subconscious, but

644
00:33:35,119 --> 00:33:37,479
Speaker 2: I think it was, you know, it was not the

645
00:33:37,559 --> 00:33:39,879
Speaker 2: right time for me to be here as far as working.

646
00:33:39,999 --> 00:33:42,919
Speaker 2: So when I got here, I really hard to get

647
00:33:42,919 --> 00:33:46,399
Speaker 2: work for me, and because rightly Australia was very much

648
00:33:46,399 --> 00:33:49,439
Speaker 2: finding it. You know, it's Mura's wedding. It was Crocodile Dundee,

649
00:33:49,479 --> 00:33:52,679
Speaker 2: it was breaking morn. It was my brilliant career, it

650
00:33:52,799 --> 00:33:58,919
Speaker 2: was all. It wasn't the colonial stuff, and I suppose

651
00:33:58,959 --> 00:33:59,919
Speaker 2: my brilliant career was.

652
00:33:59,999 --> 00:34:03,279
Speaker 1: But again, you know, it was a very It was

653
00:34:03,319 --> 00:34:06,079
Speaker 1: a girl. She was the she was the underclass in

654
00:34:06,159 --> 00:34:11,599
Speaker 1: that relationship. Yes, and then so you had babies pretty quickly.

655
00:34:12,879 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 2: Yes, I knew I didn't want to be in Hollywood.

656
00:34:15,799 --> 00:34:18,119
Speaker 2: I knew it was the same thing. I was repeating

657
00:34:18,119 --> 00:34:21,399
Speaker 2: the same thing when they where It was also Hollywood

658
00:34:21,399 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 2: had changed, you know. It was interesting going to see

659
00:34:23,879 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 2: his Cliff the other day because it is a real

660
00:34:26,959 --> 00:34:30,679
Speaker 2: We don't do romance, big romantic films anymore.

661
00:34:30,679 --> 00:34:32,519
Speaker 1: And that's why I wanted to be an actress.

662
00:34:32,519 --> 00:34:35,679
Speaker 2: I think, because I was just so taken by the

663
00:34:35,919 --> 00:34:38,959
Speaker 2: romance of those you know, far from the madding crowd,

664
00:34:39,119 --> 00:34:44,119
Speaker 2: doctor Shafargobush, Cassidy and the Sun. You know, there's deeply

665
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,479
Speaker 2: romantic films where the women were sort of, you know,

666
00:34:47,759 --> 00:34:52,199
Speaker 2: so romantic thunder and cross deserts on apoll and they

667
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 2: were strong and decent. And I got to Hollywood and

668
00:34:55,879 --> 00:35:00,439
Speaker 2: it was suddenly about sex. It was all about getting

669
00:35:00,519 --> 00:35:02,679
Speaker 2: you in the red bathing suit and getting as much

670
00:35:03,039 --> 00:35:06,639
Speaker 2: breast out as possible, full endless talk about in contracts

671
00:35:06,639 --> 00:35:10,399
Speaker 2: about full frontal nudity or not, you know, and suddenly

672
00:35:10,479 --> 00:35:14,079
Speaker 2: everything became sexualized, did you rather than romanticized?

673
00:35:14,119 --> 00:35:15,039
Speaker 1: Did you?

674
00:35:15,039 --> 00:35:15,119
Speaker 2: No?

675
00:35:15,319 --> 00:35:15,919
Speaker 1: I didn't.

676
00:35:16,359 --> 00:35:18,919
Speaker 2: I didn't, And I had the first thing I ever

677
00:35:18,999 --> 00:35:21,439
Speaker 2: did I did. I was it did have a shower

678
00:35:21,519 --> 00:35:25,479
Speaker 2: scene and I had drawn pen all around my breath

679
00:35:25,679 --> 00:35:29,879
Speaker 2: because so they couldn't shoot it. But I remember they

680
00:35:30,319 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 2: enlarged the print so that, you know, because it was

681
00:35:34,759 --> 00:35:38,119
Speaker 2: obviously it was in a format that cut out my breast,

682
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:43,039
Speaker 2: but in the actual film it was wider. So Playboy,

683
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 2: I think, took the wider print. And I remember being

684
00:35:46,839 --> 00:35:49,199
Speaker 2: at well Beach one day and there was a knock

685
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:51,079
Speaker 2: on the door and there was a photographer and a

686
00:35:51,119 --> 00:35:54,519
Speaker 2: journalist saying how do you feel about having having nudity?

687
00:35:54,559 --> 00:35:57,519
Speaker 2: And Playboy And that was the first time I knew

688
00:35:57,519 --> 00:35:59,959
Speaker 2: about it or anything, and they'd obviously taken the things

689
00:35:59,959 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 2: that I'd drawn across, run my breast off, you know,

690
00:36:03,599 --> 00:36:07,199
Speaker 2: and they're all deep humiliating those moments, and you know, in.

691
00:36:07,159 --> 00:36:09,079
Speaker 1: Retrospect, are they still No?

692
00:36:09,599 --> 00:36:12,199
Speaker 2: No, now I wish I'd been less precious about it.

693
00:36:12,759 --> 00:36:16,639
Speaker 1: Take it off. Yeah, you've got a moment in the sun. Yes,

694
00:36:17,079 --> 00:36:17,559
Speaker 1: I don't know.

695
00:36:17,679 --> 00:36:20,159
Speaker 2: No, I mean, you know, you're so sensitive at that age.

696
00:36:20,199 --> 00:36:22,119
Speaker 2: You become a tough old boot, you know, by the

697
00:36:22,119 --> 00:36:25,359
Speaker 2: time you get to my age, and those things don't matter.

698
00:36:25,559 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 2: But you just go why didn't I just you know,

699
00:36:29,159 --> 00:36:32,519
Speaker 2: rip it up and just you know, take advantage of

700
00:36:32,519 --> 00:36:33,079
Speaker 2: that moment.

701
00:36:33,119 --> 00:36:35,439
Speaker 1: But you don't have that perspective. No, And there is

702
00:36:35,479 --> 00:36:36,639
Speaker 1: something about wisdom.

703
00:36:36,799 --> 00:36:39,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's no one there to say, well, actually,

704
00:36:39,199 --> 00:36:41,959
Speaker 2: funny enough, my mother was there to say, don't take

705
00:36:41,999 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 2: it all so seriously, darling, you know, but of course

706
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 2: that was just rude.

707
00:36:51,159 --> 00:36:51,679
Speaker 1: Coming up.

708
00:36:52,199 --> 00:36:56,079
Speaker 3: Rachel discovers the impact her move to Australia head on

709
00:36:56,159 --> 00:37:03,199
Speaker 3: her mother. Was she enjoying your success and when you

710
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:04,439
Speaker 3: move to Australia, was she?

711
00:37:05,199 --> 00:37:06,959
Speaker 1: How did that play with her?

712
00:37:07,759 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 4: No?

713
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,879
Speaker 2: She, you know, I think it's awful when your children

714
00:37:10,919 --> 00:37:13,159
Speaker 2: moved to the other side of the world. No, she was.

715
00:37:13,199 --> 00:37:16,359
Speaker 1: Devastated by it. Did she come here, Yeah, she did

716
00:37:16,359 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: a lot.

717
00:37:17,039 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 2: She did a lot, and she was a great mum

718
00:37:19,319 --> 00:37:22,919
Speaker 2: later on, and I think she realized what she'd missed,

719
00:37:23,159 --> 00:37:25,959
Speaker 2: and she and she didn't have a close relationship with

720
00:37:25,959 --> 00:37:29,919
Speaker 2: her other two at all, and she did with me,

721
00:37:30,359 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 2: but and then I was the one that moved to

722
00:37:32,799 --> 00:37:36,679
Speaker 2: the other side of the world. So yeah, yeah, you know,

723
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:41,519
Speaker 2: horrible for her. But did she know she was sort

724
00:37:41,519 --> 00:37:45,479
Speaker 2: of a little bit. I remember not not long before

725
00:37:45,519 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 2: she died, she said there was we were at a

726
00:37:48,919 --> 00:37:51,119
Speaker 2: dinner or something and a man was playing paying me

727
00:37:51,199 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 2: more attention than her, and I remember her saying, rather

728
00:37:54,399 --> 00:37:59,919
Speaker 2: loudly to him, we can't all be movie stars. So

729
00:37:59,959 --> 00:38:03,639
Speaker 2: she was definitely sort of irritated by it. But yeah,

730
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:07,639
Speaker 2: I guess she She wasn't. She wasn't someone who put

731
00:38:07,639 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 2: herself out that particularly, so she didn't and she thought

732
00:38:11,279 --> 00:38:14,119
Speaker 2: it was slightly vulgar. I think the whole thing again,

733
00:38:14,199 --> 00:38:16,439
Speaker 2: you know, the talking about yourself doing this sort of thing,

734
00:38:16,479 --> 00:38:16,879
Speaker 2: you know.

735
00:38:17,199 --> 00:38:21,079
Speaker 1: But also enjoyed it. Did she enjoy being, you know,

736
00:38:21,159 --> 00:38:22,559
Speaker 1: slightly disgusted by it.

737
00:38:23,519 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 2: No, she was called La bruta Mamma Da Maggie in Italy,

738
00:38:26,839 --> 00:38:30,119
Speaker 2: which was the brute of the mother of Meggie, because

739
00:38:30,439 --> 00:38:32,559
Speaker 2: you know, I, you know, people.

740
00:38:32,279 --> 00:38:35,439
Speaker 1: Asked me about my upbringing very early, and it was.

741
00:38:36,159 --> 00:38:38,679
Speaker 3: It was a strange one when you neglect, when you

742
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:43,599
Speaker 3: spoke so frankly about your upbringing. How did that resonate

743
00:38:43,639 --> 00:38:46,679
Speaker 3: with her or did she brush it off? Or do

744
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,359
Speaker 3: you think that she self reflected?

745
00:38:51,559 --> 00:38:54,439
Speaker 2: Do I think she's self reflected. I think she thought

746
00:38:54,479 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 2: I was making a lot out of nothing, right, yes,

747
00:38:57,799 --> 00:39:02,559
Speaker 2: which is that she never she never moved outside her class.

748
00:39:03,359 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 2: She never had. She stayed very very close in that world.

749
00:39:07,759 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 2: So she never was aware of the sort of the

750
00:39:13,799 --> 00:39:17,839
Speaker 2: sort of disdain, the ridicule. She never felt embarrassed by

751
00:39:17,879 --> 00:39:22,999
Speaker 2: being an elite. She never felt self conscious about being elite.

752
00:39:23,079 --> 00:39:27,359
Speaker 2: She sort of neither did my sister. I remember being

753
00:39:27,439 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 2: in the chauffeur's car following the school bus home, and

754
00:39:31,119 --> 00:39:33,359
Speaker 2: my friend was on the school bus and they were

755
00:39:33,399 --> 00:39:35,159
Speaker 2: all with a gang of kids at the back of

756
00:39:35,199 --> 00:39:37,679
Speaker 2: the bus or jeering and laughing, and because we were

757
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,919
Speaker 2: in and in fact her father was driving the car,

758
00:39:41,279 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 2: and I remember being so mortified by the idea, and

759
00:39:44,879 --> 00:39:48,919
Speaker 2: I remember hiding under the front seats so that, you know,

760
00:39:49,399 --> 00:39:52,039
Speaker 2: I couldn't be seen. I was very self conscious about

761
00:39:52,079 --> 00:39:56,039
Speaker 2: being different. And my sister had no problem with it

762
00:39:56,079 --> 00:39:58,679
Speaker 2: at all. She was just sitting up with the back

763
00:39:58,799 --> 00:40:01,159
Speaker 2: and I don't know why I was sensitive to it.

764
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:05,079
Speaker 3: Well, that's unusual as well, because that's exactly how establishment works,

765
00:40:05,279 --> 00:40:09,119
Speaker 3: is that people are very happy to buy into establishment

766
00:40:09,119 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 3: because that's how the structure works.

767
00:40:10,999 --> 00:40:13,879
Speaker 1: But you had this, I don't know this.

768
00:40:14,559 --> 00:40:19,039
Speaker 2: I had a sort of inverted synobism. I didn't want

769
00:40:19,079 --> 00:40:22,079
Speaker 2: to you know, it's like I mean to this very day.

770
00:40:22,159 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 2: Brian is very proud of being a working class hero.

771
00:40:24,999 --> 00:40:27,159
Speaker 2: You know, he will drop out a hat the fact

772
00:40:27,159 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 2: that his mother made dedarning for a living. You know,

773
00:40:30,359 --> 00:40:34,799
Speaker 2: there is something very gallant and heroic about coming up

774
00:40:34,919 --> 00:40:38,359
Speaker 2: from you know, nowhere and making something of yourself.

775
00:40:38,959 --> 00:40:40,639
Speaker 1: If you come if you make.

776
00:40:40,519 --> 00:40:44,639
Speaker 2: A success for yourself and you've come from a privileged background,

777
00:40:45,159 --> 00:40:49,839
Speaker 2: it's really considered, Well, you didn't have to do much,

778
00:40:49,919 --> 00:40:53,479
Speaker 2: did you, Not much of a journey for.

779
00:40:53,439 --> 00:40:57,559
Speaker 5: You, Yeah, silverspoon, silver spoon, And also a sort of

780
00:40:57,599 --> 00:41:00,879
Speaker 5: sense that you were a bit soulless, that not really

781
00:41:00,919 --> 00:41:03,559
Speaker 5: suffering gave you any kind of soul.

782
00:41:04,799 --> 00:41:07,439
Speaker 1: And I don't know where I get these ideas from,

783
00:41:07,479 --> 00:41:07,959
Speaker 1: but you know.

784
00:41:07,999 --> 00:41:09,839
Speaker 2: I think it was what you read, and it was

785
00:41:09,919 --> 00:41:14,519
Speaker 2: just really subconscious, weird stuff and I just did not

786
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,919
Speaker 2: like being an elite. And I still feel uncomfortable with that.

787
00:41:19,119 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm much more able to talk about it

788
00:41:21,319 --> 00:41:24,399
Speaker 2: because I think it's kind of a fascinating place to

789
00:41:24,479 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 2: come from, and because I think you can throw a

790
00:41:27,479 --> 00:41:31,999
Speaker 2: light on what that hose, how those elites are made,

791
00:41:32,279 --> 00:41:35,439
Speaker 2: why we've got into this Epstein situation, you know, what

792
00:41:36,519 --> 00:41:38,919
Speaker 2: makes people like that? I mean, I remember my father

793
00:41:39,319 --> 00:41:42,039
Speaker 2: had He was a conservative voter, and he had no

794
00:41:42,199 --> 00:41:45,959
Speaker 2: care about really how society functioned. He wanted to make

795
00:41:45,999 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 2: sure that his money was looked after, and that he

796
00:41:49,439 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 2: maintained his privileges, and that he hung with his privileged cohouts.

797
00:41:53,839 --> 00:41:56,639
Speaker 1: And that his poached eggs already when he wanted never

798
00:41:56,839 --> 00:41:58,519
Speaker 1: considered it, you know, never.

799
00:42:00,399 --> 00:42:04,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was snobby, and it was for me very clearly.

800
00:42:04,599 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it was a lot to do

801
00:42:05,959 --> 00:42:09,639
Speaker 2: with my friend who was the chauffeur's daughter, who would

802
00:42:09,639 --> 00:42:13,119
Speaker 2: make fun of me as being posh.

803
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,919
Speaker 1: What was her name? She was called Sarah hooper Ah.

804
00:42:16,519 --> 00:42:19,119
Speaker 1: Do you still see Sarah Hooper. She died, did she.

805
00:42:19,319 --> 00:42:21,399
Speaker 2: Yes, But she was such an influence and she was

806
00:42:21,439 --> 00:42:24,639
Speaker 2: a bit older than me, and she we had great

807
00:42:24,799 --> 00:42:27,879
Speaker 2: riding adventures, and she would, you know, come riding with me.

808
00:42:27,959 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 2: And she was a forceful, a force of nature, and

809
00:42:32,279 --> 00:42:35,199
Speaker 2: she was a very dear friend. But only for those

810
00:42:35,319 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 2: very formative years, you know. And then I went to

811
00:42:37,319 --> 00:42:39,479
Speaker 2: boarding school and she went to the local grammar school

812
00:42:39,519 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 2: and we went our different ways.

813
00:42:41,519 --> 00:42:45,199
Speaker 3: So when you were in Australia, and it's funny that

814
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,439
Speaker 3: you talk about elite, because then through the dint of

815
00:42:48,679 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 3: your husband's work and your work, you became part of

816
00:42:51,839 --> 00:42:55,679
Speaker 3: kind of a cultural elite, which is different, more of

817
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,199
Speaker 3: a meritocracy, I guess.

818
00:42:58,719 --> 00:42:59,599
Speaker 1: And then so.

819
00:42:59,639 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 3: You also could have had just this kind of charmed,

820
00:43:03,319 --> 00:43:07,559
Speaker 3: easy life life in Sydney with all its beauties and

821
00:43:07,839 --> 00:43:10,479
Speaker 3: whatever and doors opening and.

822
00:43:10,359 --> 00:43:14,399
Speaker 2: Then and I did, Yes, you did, yeah, And it

823
00:43:14,439 --> 00:43:18,119
Speaker 2: was you know, fantastic, fantastic.

824
00:43:17,599 --> 00:43:23,999
Speaker 1: But you still had a yearning in you. Yes, I

825
00:43:24,039 --> 00:43:25,079
Speaker 1: did have a yearning in me.

826
00:43:25,399 --> 00:43:29,959
Speaker 2: I've always been kind of unsettled and looking for purpose

827
00:43:30,159 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 2: and something. I'm the kind of person who loves to

828
00:43:33,839 --> 00:43:38,679
Speaker 2: climb very high precipices, and I get a lot of

829
00:43:38,799 --> 00:43:42,959
Speaker 2: satisfaction out of the you know, the challenge and the

830
00:43:42,999 --> 00:43:46,599
Speaker 2: conquest and getting there. So I was very you know,

831
00:43:46,679 --> 00:43:49,919
Speaker 2: I was recognized that my acting career was done once

832
00:43:49,959 --> 00:43:52,679
Speaker 2: I came here, and I recognized there really wasn't a

833
00:43:52,959 --> 00:43:55,839
Speaker 2: place for me really here, and I knew I had

834
00:43:55,839 --> 00:43:58,359
Speaker 2: to change careers. So I went back to university and

835
00:43:58,399 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 2: I did a communications degree, and I thought, well, I

836
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 2: would start writing, and I really found my love of writing.

837
00:44:04,759 --> 00:44:07,359
Speaker 2: And then in the end then I had small children,

838
00:44:07,439 --> 00:44:09,479
Speaker 2: so that was very hard for me to sort of

839
00:44:09,599 --> 00:44:13,639
Speaker 2: take that seriously. And then I started, you know, I'd

840
00:44:13,639 --> 00:44:16,879
Speaker 2: read a lot of scripts, and so I started writing scripts.

841
00:44:16,919 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 1: And then I you know, write Palm Beach.

842
00:44:19,759 --> 00:44:24,439
Speaker 2: Yes, well, and I wrote Beautiful Kate, and I wrote

843
00:44:24,479 --> 00:44:28,359
Speaker 2: all my short films that I did before that. So yeah,

844
00:44:28,599 --> 00:44:31,199
Speaker 2: I you know, that was a big mountain to climb,

845
00:44:31,279 --> 00:44:33,839
Speaker 2: to change those, to change careers, to know when it's over.

846
00:44:33,919 --> 00:44:35,479
Speaker 1: I was quite good at knowing.

847
00:44:35,839 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 2: This one is done, my use by date is over here,

848
00:44:38,479 --> 00:44:39,639
Speaker 2: I've got to move.

849
00:44:41,279 --> 00:44:43,599
Speaker 1: Get off the part. Yeah, I was quite good at that.

850
00:44:43,639 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 1: I reckoned. I was always slightly ahead of my cohorts.

851
00:44:46,959 --> 00:44:47,959
Speaker 1: In like having.

852
00:44:47,759 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 2: Moved first sniffed the bree I sniffed the breeze.

853
00:44:50,919 --> 00:44:52,999
Speaker 1: That was a good one, Yeah, sniffed the breeze. And

854
00:44:53,039 --> 00:44:54,519
Speaker 1: so I then so.

855
00:44:54,439 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 2: I certainly did that as a model, and I certainly

856
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 2: did that. When I came here. My you know, acting

857
00:44:59,359 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 2: career was done. I went back to America quite a

858
00:45:01,799 --> 00:45:04,639
Speaker 2: bit and did still did work over there, so but

859
00:45:04,679 --> 00:45:06,519
Speaker 2: I didn't really work here at all. So I still

860
00:45:06,519 --> 00:45:08,119
Speaker 2: had a few years when the kids were young, when

861
00:45:08,119 --> 00:45:10,199
Speaker 2: I was going over to America and doing you know,

862
00:45:10,279 --> 00:45:13,359
Speaker 2: television HBO, and I did against all odds.

863
00:45:13,359 --> 00:45:15,599
Speaker 1: I did against all arts actually before I came here.

864
00:45:16,199 --> 00:45:18,919
Speaker 2: And then the minute you the minute you leave Hollywood,

865
00:45:19,039 --> 00:45:21,919
Speaker 2: someone takes your place very quickly. So I lost any

866
00:45:21,999 --> 00:45:25,079
Speaker 2: kind of cashet I had by coming here and marrying

867
00:45:25,119 --> 00:45:27,919
Speaker 2: Brian and being here and having kids and all that.

868
00:45:27,919 --> 00:45:31,519
Speaker 2: That went very quickly. And then I sort of found myself.

869
00:45:31,559 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 2: You know, Brian was working a lot. I was here,

870
00:45:33,879 --> 00:45:38,559
Speaker 2: I was alone, not didn't have any I didn't know

871
00:45:38,639 --> 00:45:41,679
Speaker 2: anybody here, and we were living up in the Northern Beaches,

872
00:45:42,199 --> 00:45:45,639
Speaker 2: which was beautiful but lonely, and Brian was working a

873
00:45:45,639 --> 00:45:49,119
Speaker 2: lot and away a lot, so that was a hard time.

874
00:45:49,279 --> 00:45:52,879
Speaker 2: And then I went to uts and I loved that,

875
00:45:53,279 --> 00:45:57,359
Speaker 2: and I started writing. And then I did a Tropfest

876
00:45:57,399 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 2: film and I loved it. I did it with the

877
00:46:00,879 --> 00:46:03,119
Speaker 2: kids at school. I did it because my kids school

878
00:46:03,199 --> 00:46:05,439
Speaker 2: wanted to do it in years five six they wanted

879
00:46:05,439 --> 00:46:07,959
Speaker 2: to do a trop fast, so I did it with them,

880
00:46:08,319 --> 00:46:10,439
Speaker 2: and of course they got absolutely bored of it in

881
00:46:10,439 --> 00:46:13,479
Speaker 2: about five seconds, and I was sort of alad you didn't.

882
00:46:13,199 --> 00:46:13,879
Speaker 1: And I didn't.

883
00:46:13,999 --> 00:46:18,479
Speaker 2: I saw the pres this is great and yeah, So

884
00:46:18,559 --> 00:46:20,639
Speaker 2: then I became obsessed about doing that.

885
00:46:21,199 --> 00:46:25,919
Speaker 3: So that was another extension of your creative self. And

886
00:46:25,959 --> 00:46:30,039
Speaker 3: then there's a massive pivot born about by the twenty

887
00:46:30,119 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 3: nineteen fires, the catastrophic fires, because you, through your family life.

888
00:46:35,039 --> 00:46:38,959
Speaker 1: Had had this farm. Yep, that was like an escape

889
00:46:39,199 --> 00:46:41,079
Speaker 1: for the family. It feels very unnatural.

890
00:46:41,119 --> 00:46:44,999
Speaker 2: Suddenly this conversation I want to know about your life.

891
00:46:46,359 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 2: I mean, it's yeah, it's very It's funny doing interviews

892
00:46:48,799 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 2: because it is very one sided.

893
00:46:50,399 --> 00:46:53,159
Speaker 1: You suddenly feel like this is ridiculous. Now what is

894
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:53,839
Speaker 1: he doing?

895
00:46:54,959 --> 00:46:58,519
Speaker 3: You? Like this would be a ten parter. This really

896
00:46:58,639 --> 00:47:03,359
Speaker 3: is like every every byway and culder Sack is filled

897
00:47:03,399 --> 00:47:04,039
Speaker 3: with riches.

898
00:47:04,159 --> 00:47:07,759
Speaker 2: I think yeah, there's had certainly been some big U

899
00:47:07,839 --> 00:47:11,559
Speaker 2: turns or yeaes. Yeah, so the and you know then

900
00:47:11,599 --> 00:47:13,879
Speaker 2: I got into the directing or do you want to

901
00:47:13,879 --> 00:47:14,639
Speaker 2: talk about the farm?

902
00:47:14,679 --> 00:47:16,999
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to talk about the farm, okay, because

903
00:47:16,999 --> 00:47:22,439
Speaker 3: then I also want to talk about your immersion in

904
00:47:22,479 --> 00:47:28,199
Speaker 3: this new world and sustainability of farming and regenerative farming,

905
00:47:28,639 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 3: which I think, once again you were ahead of the

906
00:47:30,839 --> 00:47:31,999
Speaker 3: curve on I think.

907
00:47:32,119 --> 00:47:35,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope, so, I hope. So anyway, yes, well

908
00:47:35,519 --> 00:47:37,679
Speaker 2: I had a farm. Very quickly we got a farm.

909
00:47:38,039 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 2: We were filming something something called The Good Wife up

910
00:47:40,759 --> 00:47:44,519
Speaker 2: in the mid North Coast and Brian and I very

911
00:47:44,599 --> 00:47:49,119
Speaker 2: much fell in love with everything about it, and we

912
00:47:49,199 --> 00:47:51,399
Speaker 2: just did one of those things. We were young and

913
00:47:51,439 --> 00:47:53,879
Speaker 2: had enough money to buy a little farm and we

914
00:47:53,959 --> 00:47:55,879
Speaker 2: just didn't think about it. And it was way too

915
00:47:55,959 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 2: far away from Sydney and took six bloody hours to

916
00:47:59,279 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 2: get there.

917
00:47:59,959 --> 00:48:03,559
Speaker 1: So it was stupid, right, it was sort of stupid.

918
00:48:03,599 --> 00:48:08,679
Speaker 2: But for me, the country was very evocative of my

919
00:48:08,839 --> 00:48:12,479
Speaker 2: childhood country. So it was sort of roaring, rolling hills,

920
00:48:12,599 --> 00:48:15,559
Speaker 2: quite quite a small little valley, right, It was a

921
00:48:15,639 --> 00:48:19,159
Speaker 2: sort of didn't have that wild quite the wildness and

922
00:48:19,199 --> 00:48:24,039
Speaker 2: the scale of most Australian stuff that parched. No, it

923
00:48:24,119 --> 00:48:27,559
Speaker 2: wasn't parched, it was green. It was and for me

924
00:48:28,039 --> 00:48:32,999
Speaker 2: it definitely spoke to my heart somehow. Anyway, we got

925
00:48:33,039 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 2: that and we just had it as a we didn't

926
00:48:37,479 --> 00:48:39,919
Speaker 2: you know, it was you know, going back to England.

927
00:48:39,999 --> 00:48:42,119
Speaker 2: We did go back to England quite a bit, but

928
00:48:42,919 --> 00:48:46,159
Speaker 2: it's a big schleap when you've got small children, yes,

929
00:48:46,199 --> 00:48:47,919
Speaker 2: And we didn't want to do that, and we didn't

930
00:48:47,919 --> 00:48:50,599
Speaker 2: really want to go to Bali or whatever around here.

931
00:48:50,839 --> 00:48:52,959
Speaker 2: So we got a place so that we could go

932
00:48:53,039 --> 00:48:56,639
Speaker 2: every holidays. We didn't go overseas every holidays. We went

933
00:48:56,679 --> 00:48:59,359
Speaker 2: to the farm. And it was a small farm at

934
00:48:59,359 --> 00:49:02,879
Speaker 2: that stage, and so the kids grew up really going

935
00:49:02,919 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 2: every holidays to the farm. And because I'd grown up

936
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:07,439
Speaker 2: in the country and I was pretty good with horses

937
00:49:07,479 --> 00:49:11,079
Speaker 2: and things like that, we got horses and just had.

938
00:49:10,919 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 1: A wonderful, wonderful holiday. But load of is not a

939
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:18,679
Speaker 1: farmer not do.

940
00:49:19,199 --> 00:49:24,559
Speaker 3: There is beautiful Docco called Rachel's Farm. Yes, very beautiful

941
00:49:25,919 --> 00:49:30,159
Speaker 3: and beautiful because I think if you think about the quest,

942
00:49:30,399 --> 00:49:35,159
Speaker 3: you know what our purpose as humans always to find

943
00:49:36,639 --> 00:49:41,119
Speaker 3: another aspect of ourselves to roll into.

944
00:49:40,959 --> 00:49:43,439
Speaker 2: And they're hard, those things because you know when changes.

945
00:49:43,519 --> 00:49:45,559
Speaker 2: You know, I knew when my film career was over.

946
00:49:46,079 --> 00:49:48,399
Speaker 2: I knew when my directing career was over, and it

947
00:49:48,479 --> 00:49:49,999
Speaker 2: was heartbreaking.

948
00:49:50,079 --> 00:49:53,999
Speaker 1: Transitions are hard, Oh god, they're hard, Yes, really hard.

949
00:49:53,999 --> 00:49:57,159
Speaker 3: And I know when you say union was a job

950
00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 3: you had missed out on, specifically.

951
00:49:58,879 --> 00:50:01,399
Speaker 2: Job seven years of not being able to get work

952
00:50:01,519 --> 00:50:05,559
Speaker 2: right weirdly after, I mean, you know, of see one feels.

953
00:50:06,479 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 2: I mean, I felt I had a lot to offer

954
00:50:08,359 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 2: and I was pretty good at it and I made

955
00:50:10,799 --> 00:50:14,999
Speaker 2: some you know, terrific stuff. But I think everybody probably

956
00:50:14,999 --> 00:50:18,519
Speaker 2: feels like that, and I think I probably wasn't as

957
00:50:19,599 --> 00:50:23,319
Speaker 2: good as I probably felt that I was. But you know,

958
00:50:23,519 --> 00:50:24,999
Speaker 2: and at the end, you have just a lot of

959
00:50:25,119 --> 00:50:27,839
Speaker 2: drawers full of scripts and they haven't gone anywhere, and

960
00:50:27,879 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 2: you've you know, there's so much work goes into trying

961
00:50:32,279 --> 00:50:35,119
Speaker 2: to get a project up, you know, because they're expensive,

962
00:50:35,199 --> 00:50:38,599
Speaker 2: and there's it's very competitive and there's always somebody new

963
00:50:38,599 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 2: coming up. And I did get into the directing kind

964
00:50:40,839 --> 00:50:43,199
Speaker 2: of late, and I was known as an actor, so

965
00:50:43,319 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 2: to change that mantle was hard, and it wasn't necessarily

966
00:50:46,839 --> 00:50:49,119
Speaker 2: taken as seriously as it could have been as if

967
00:50:49,159 --> 00:50:51,359
Speaker 2: I'd started as a director and gone to film.

968
00:50:51,119 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 1: School and yes, had that pedigree or that had that degree.

969
00:50:54,959 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 2: People always a little bit skeptical, Oh well, she'll have

970
00:50:57,359 --> 00:50:59,519
Speaker 2: a little play and then she does it.

971
00:50:59,559 --> 00:51:01,799
Speaker 1: Also, because you were married to Brian Brown, do you

972
00:51:01,839 --> 00:51:04,959
Speaker 1: think or not so much. I think she's always to blame.

973
00:51:05,039 --> 00:51:09,359
Speaker 1: Let's blame him.

974
00:51:10,359 --> 00:51:13,039
Speaker 2: No, he was always absolutely fantastic because he produced a

975
00:51:13,039 --> 00:51:13,679
Speaker 2: lot of them too.

976
00:51:13,959 --> 00:51:15,119
Speaker 1: But I'm in externally.

977
00:51:15,319 --> 00:51:17,359
Speaker 3: Do you think there was always a thing of that

978
00:51:17,479 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 3: you don't necessarily need the job or.

979
00:51:21,919 --> 00:51:23,599
Speaker 1: I don't know, I did? You know?

980
00:51:23,679 --> 00:51:27,079
Speaker 2: It's so fickle, it's so who's in favor and who's not,

981
00:51:27,279 --> 00:51:29,199
Speaker 2: and who you want, who people want to work with,

982
00:51:29,279 --> 00:51:33,119
Speaker 2: And it's very copycat. You know, suddenly somebody becomes hot

983
00:51:33,159 --> 00:51:35,799
Speaker 2: and everybody wants to work with them, and literally a

984
00:51:35,839 --> 00:51:38,599
Speaker 2: week later they're out of fashion or they've done their

985
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:42,479
Speaker 2: dash and it's somebody new. And you spend a lot

986
00:51:42,519 --> 00:51:44,999
Speaker 2: of time and a lot of energy getting to a

987
00:51:45,039 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 2: place where you can be responsible for a budget and

988
00:51:47,759 --> 00:51:51,519
Speaker 2: to tell a story, and suddenly it's gone and it

989
00:51:51,559 --> 00:51:54,559
Speaker 2: doesn't matter what you do, it's just gone.

990
00:51:54,679 --> 00:51:56,359
Speaker 1: And also the industry is very small.

991
00:51:56,479 --> 00:51:58,679
Speaker 2: So if you make a bit of a mistake on something,

992
00:51:58,759 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 2: or you don't do as well as you thought you should,

993
00:52:02,359 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 2: you know it's over.

994
00:52:04,159 --> 00:52:04,959
Speaker 1: It is over.

995
00:52:05,279 --> 00:52:10,399
Speaker 3: And so you you obviously have no trouble as you

996
00:52:10,439 --> 00:52:13,359
Speaker 3: said you like to to, you know, scale a pinnacle

997
00:52:14,279 --> 00:52:17,039
Speaker 3: time and energy. You were like, I know what I'm

998
00:52:17,039 --> 00:52:19,359
Speaker 3: going to do. I'm going to become a farmer.

999
00:52:21,879 --> 00:52:23,919
Speaker 1: Yeah that was that was pretty recently.

1000
00:52:24,119 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 2: Yes, that was pretty recently then that I had basically

1001
00:52:28,279 --> 00:52:29,359
Speaker 2: a big breakdown.

1002
00:52:29,359 --> 00:52:32,519
Speaker 1: I've always had a bit of mental health issue. Really. Yeah.

1003
00:52:32,599 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 3: It's funny because you seem, I mean externally when I

1004
00:52:37,279 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 3: see you really do, and maybe it's because you're very

1005
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:42,959
Speaker 3: poised and you have beautiful posture, but it's.

1006
00:52:42,799 --> 00:52:47,959
Speaker 1: Hard to imagine you crumbled. Yeah, and you were crumbled.

1007
00:52:50,559 --> 00:52:53,599
Speaker 2: Yes, I've been crumbled a few times. A few times.

1008
00:52:53,639 --> 00:52:56,839
Speaker 2: I've had crumbles, and I've been on antipressants for a

1009
00:52:57,479 --> 00:53:01,039
Speaker 2: long time, right, And I am.

1010
00:53:00,639 --> 00:53:03,319
Speaker 1: Deeply grateful to them because it was I was.

1011
00:53:03,879 --> 00:53:09,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm someone who's undone unravels quite easily. Wow, quite

1012
00:53:09,559 --> 00:53:12,839
Speaker 2: a lot. And it comes from you know, I think

1013
00:53:12,839 --> 00:53:19,039
Speaker 2: in the end this what does it come from?

1014
00:53:19,159 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 1: I think it's self esteem.

1015
00:53:20,439 --> 00:53:24,359
Speaker 2: I think it's not liking yourself enough. I don't know

1016
00:53:24,399 --> 00:53:27,479
Speaker 2: what it is, but it's it's in there and it

1017
00:53:27,919 --> 00:53:29,079
Speaker 2: will never really go.

1018
00:53:29,479 --> 00:53:32,399
Speaker 1: I just did. I did the Adelaide Fringe.

1019
00:53:32,119 --> 00:53:35,319
Speaker 2: Festival the day before the night before last, and I

1020
00:53:35,399 --> 00:53:37,479
Speaker 2: had to host it and I was the MC and

1021
00:53:37,519 --> 00:53:41,359
Speaker 2: stuff and I'm so anxious, and so the chatter in

1022
00:53:41,399 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 2: my head was just screaming, You're going to screw this up.

1023
00:53:46,359 --> 00:53:48,839
Speaker 2: You're going to You're not going to know your lines,

1024
00:53:48,919 --> 00:53:51,759
Speaker 2: You're going to bugger it all up, you know. And

1025
00:53:52,199 --> 00:53:53,919
Speaker 2: there were lots of young I was on the sort

1026
00:53:53,959 --> 00:53:56,919
Speaker 2: of it was a it was a farming stories, a

1027
00:53:56,959 --> 00:53:59,479
Speaker 2: love story, and it was basically other farmers talking about

1028
00:53:59,519 --> 00:54:01,159
Speaker 2: their experiences.

1029
00:54:00,479 --> 00:54:01,039
Speaker 1: And this and that.

1030
00:54:01,599 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 2: And they were younger than me, and they were farmers.

1031
00:54:03,799 --> 00:54:06,639
Speaker 2: They weren't performing, and they were fine. They were really

1032
00:54:06,679 --> 00:54:09,159
Speaker 2: excited about it, and they felt really proud of what

1033
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:13,439
Speaker 2: they'd done. And I was sort of still, you know,

1034
00:54:13,759 --> 00:54:16,799
Speaker 2: deeply insecure about being able to pull it off, and

1035
00:54:17,079 --> 00:54:20,399
Speaker 2: you know, and I just I find I find this

1036
00:54:20,559 --> 00:54:22,919
Speaker 2: quite easy because I do feel like we're having a chat.

1037
00:54:23,679 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 2: But I find anything where there are expectations and it's

1038
00:54:27,279 --> 00:54:29,679
Speaker 2: not it's not feeling like I'm going to make a

1039
00:54:29,679 --> 00:54:31,479
Speaker 2: fool of myself in front of other people.

1040
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:35,599
Speaker 1: It's a fool for me. It's me not living up

1041
00:54:35,639 --> 00:54:37,159
Speaker 1: to the standards that I have.

1042
00:54:37,759 --> 00:54:40,999
Speaker 2: And that's that which is the critical voice that was

1043
00:54:41,039 --> 00:54:45,999
Speaker 2: from my beginning of like, oh she's a bore, she's stupid,

1044
00:54:46,399 --> 00:54:47,879
Speaker 2: she's got a big bum.

1045
00:54:47,959 --> 00:54:51,879
Speaker 1: You know, it was those those things very early on.

1046
00:54:52,159 --> 00:54:53,079
Speaker 1: Never leave you.

1047
00:54:53,599 --> 00:54:55,879
Speaker 3: And yet it doesn't matter how many times you get

1048
00:54:56,959 --> 00:55:00,559
Speaker 3: the external affirmation that what you're doing is great because

1049
00:55:00,599 --> 00:55:02,439
Speaker 3: the internal I know.

1050
00:55:02,319 --> 00:55:04,519
Speaker 2: And all of a sudden, I've had such lovely feeds

1051
00:55:04,639 --> 00:55:06,559
Speaker 2: back from all of that thing. When I was pit

1052
00:55:06,639 --> 00:55:09,159
Speaker 2: by the trolls about looking at what is.

1053
00:55:09,119 --> 00:55:10,479
Speaker 1: Actually paining me now?

1054
00:55:10,799 --> 00:55:13,879
Speaker 3: To think when you have said that you have this,

1055
00:55:14,679 --> 00:55:19,039
Speaker 3: you know, this internal struggle with yourself, my thought was,

1056
00:55:19,879 --> 00:55:20,399
Speaker 3: oh fuck.

1057
00:55:21,199 --> 00:55:23,319
Speaker 1: When people said those.

1058
00:55:23,159 --> 00:55:27,159
Speaker 2: Did not minds, did not mind at all, because no,

1059
00:55:27,639 --> 00:55:28,159
Speaker 2: didn't care.

1060
00:55:28,919 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 1: Now why didn't come Number one?

1061
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:35,719
Speaker 2: I I don't have expectations about my appearance now, so

1062
00:55:35,959 --> 00:55:38,559
Speaker 2: what so I looked like, you know, like I've been

1063
00:55:39,799 --> 00:55:41,599
Speaker 2: like a farm or I come out of you know,

1064
00:55:41,839 --> 00:55:43,839
Speaker 2: like I haven't looked in the mirror for a what.

1065
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:46,999
Speaker 1: I don't care if people have put a post about

1066
00:55:47,039 --> 00:55:50,159
Speaker 1: the farm, so it's about it was. It was related

1067
00:55:50,199 --> 00:55:51,679
Speaker 1: to the thanking.

1068
00:55:51,439 --> 00:55:54,599
Speaker 2: With people thanking my neighbors that Christmas, who's been so great,

1069
00:55:54,639 --> 00:55:57,399
Speaker 2: and how I couldn't do it all without them, you know,

1070
00:55:57,439 --> 00:55:59,679
Speaker 2: because they always jump in and you have this wonderful

1071
00:55:59,679 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 2: community of people who you're all connected to, and they

1072
00:56:03,119 --> 00:56:06,519
Speaker 2: communities and I was just thanking them and I didn't

1073
00:56:06,559 --> 00:56:09,639
Speaker 2: think really, I just and also I never have my camera,

1074
00:56:09,879 --> 00:56:12,519
Speaker 2: you know, I just do it myself and I don't

1075
00:56:12,519 --> 00:56:15,359
Speaker 2: really put touch thing into it. And I was basically

1076
00:56:15,399 --> 00:56:18,319
Speaker 2: just thanking them anyway. Yeah, must be quite a shock

1077
00:56:18,399 --> 00:56:19,079
Speaker 2: for people.

1078
00:56:18,879 --> 00:56:21,359
Speaker 1: Who know me. I've done lots of them. I don't

1079
00:56:21,399 --> 00:56:24,199
Speaker 1: know what. Oh, I know because I went gray, that's right. Oh,

1080
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:26,519
Speaker 1: that's right. I let the gray go right. Yeah. And

1081
00:56:26,559 --> 00:56:27,639
Speaker 1: I was the first time.

1082
00:56:28,359 --> 00:56:31,759
Speaker 2: Yes, and I've done you know, yes, and I probably

1083
00:56:31,799 --> 00:56:33,679
Speaker 2: and then the film that you know, I had lighting

1084
00:56:33,759 --> 00:56:36,559
Speaker 2: and it was nice sliding and I didn't look too wretched,

1085
00:56:36,559 --> 00:56:39,119
Speaker 2: I suppose in Rachel's Farm, which was only four years ago.

1086
00:56:39,119 --> 00:56:40,919
Speaker 1: When did you realize.

1087
00:56:40,479 --> 00:56:42,479
Speaker 3: That that you'd.

1088
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:43,279
Speaker 1: Had quite an impact?

1089
00:56:43,799 --> 00:56:46,799
Speaker 3: Like did you see the comments? You don't strike me

1090
00:56:46,839 --> 00:56:47,719
Speaker 3: as someone who's on your.

1091
00:56:47,599 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 1: Phone a lot.

1092
00:56:48,879 --> 00:56:50,999
Speaker 2: No, I mean I might have to be on my

1093
00:56:51,039 --> 00:56:53,159
Speaker 2: phone a bit because I've got this new business. So

1094
00:56:53,199 --> 00:56:56,759
Speaker 2: I'm trying to you know, selling your Not only I'm

1095
00:56:56,799 --> 00:57:00,799
Speaker 2: an advocate, I'm an advocate for regenerative farming now. So

1096
00:57:00,919 --> 00:57:04,399
Speaker 2: I need to be on social media and I need

1097
00:57:04,639 --> 00:57:07,439
Speaker 2: be talking about the issues about what is going on

1098
00:57:07,479 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 2: with small family farms, and I need to talk about how,

1099
00:57:10,439 --> 00:57:13,199
Speaker 2: you know, the tiny percent of the farmers get for

1100
00:57:13,279 --> 00:57:18,999
Speaker 2: their prodi produce, and how we're killing them. And you know,

1101
00:57:19,119 --> 00:57:22,399
Speaker 2: sometimes that takes an outsider to see have that perspective

1102
00:57:22,439 --> 00:57:25,279
Speaker 2: and I and I do feel that is my path

1103
00:57:25,519 --> 00:57:28,519
Speaker 2: for now. And I know I've got to, you know,

1104
00:57:28,639 --> 00:57:32,319
Speaker 2: step into my noncomfort zone to do that, but I

1105
00:57:32,439 --> 00:57:36,399
Speaker 2: really don't care about how I'm looking in that. That's

1106
00:57:36,559 --> 00:57:39,239
Speaker 2: not what I don't think anybody when you put out.

1107
00:57:39,159 --> 00:57:42,039
Speaker 3: That post, what was the first comment that you saw

1108
00:57:42,119 --> 00:57:45,399
Speaker 3: where you went, oh, can you remember?

1109
00:57:46,159 --> 00:57:46,319
Speaker 1: Well?

1110
00:57:46,359 --> 00:57:49,239
Speaker 2: I think I first saw people coming to my defense first,

1111
00:57:49,239 --> 00:57:52,599
Speaker 2: and I went on, what are they talking about? And

1112
00:57:52,639 --> 00:57:55,679
Speaker 2: then I saw some of the other ones, and no,

1113
00:57:55,879 --> 00:57:58,119
Speaker 2: I really just went, oh, you poor thing.

1114
00:57:58,399 --> 00:58:00,319
Speaker 1: You know, you are really afraid of aging.

1115
00:58:00,479 --> 00:58:04,399
Speaker 2: I'm not afraid of aging, and I feel better now

1116
00:58:04,639 --> 00:58:08,279
Speaker 2: than you know, as an older person than I did. Yeah,

1117
00:58:08,439 --> 00:58:12,519
Speaker 2: the expectations of so many things, your sexuality, your physicality,

1118
00:58:13,639 --> 00:58:15,119
Speaker 2: everything has gone of that.

1119
00:58:15,599 --> 00:58:18,239
Speaker 1: It's such a relief. You put up a really lovely

1120
00:58:18,399 --> 00:58:19,679
Speaker 1: post actually where you.

1121
00:58:19,639 --> 00:58:26,719
Speaker 3: Said, where you spoke about the beauty and of aging and.

1122
00:58:26,719 --> 00:58:28,719
Speaker 1: The myriad of benefits that came that.

1123
00:58:28,879 --> 00:58:32,399
Speaker 3: You said, it's not anything to be frightened off, and

1124
00:58:32,519 --> 00:58:37,119
Speaker 3: yet people are obviously frightened of it. Why do you

1125
00:58:37,319 --> 00:58:41,679
Speaker 3: think you in particular, why do you think that happened?

1126
00:58:41,759 --> 00:58:44,039
Speaker 3: Because it's like you said, You've put up lots of

1127
00:58:44,079 --> 00:58:47,039
Speaker 3: posts of yourself. You've never been you know, you're not

1128
00:58:47,119 --> 00:58:49,239
Speaker 3: having hair and makeup before you go out in the farm,

1129
00:58:49,519 --> 00:58:52,399
Speaker 3: So it's not Why do.

1130
00:58:52,279 --> 00:58:57,519
Speaker 1: You think people were so affected? I think I don't

1131
00:58:57,519 --> 00:58:58,519
Speaker 1: think it was really about me.

1132
00:58:58,599 --> 00:59:00,799
Speaker 2: I think I was a catalyst for a conversation that

1133
00:59:00,879 --> 00:59:05,119
Speaker 2: people were wanting to have and they hadn't been antunity

1134
00:59:05,279 --> 00:59:09,079
Speaker 2: as clear I suppose. So somebody's suddenly attacking me and

1135
00:59:09,119 --> 00:59:11,599
Speaker 2: I'm a farmer, so i'm you know, why should I

1136
00:59:11,679 --> 00:59:14,799
Speaker 2: look at a standard? And I think people have a

1137
00:59:14,839 --> 00:59:18,079
Speaker 2: fear of getting older because women become very invisible as

1138
00:59:18,079 --> 00:59:20,959
Speaker 2: they get older, yes, and if they, you know, aren't

1139
00:59:20,999 --> 00:59:24,679
Speaker 2: able to rest on the glory of their youth and

1140
00:59:24,719 --> 00:59:29,039
Speaker 2: their beauty and their you know, their sexuality, who are they?

1141
00:59:29,159 --> 00:59:32,399
Speaker 1: Where are they? And I think you know, definitely see

1142
00:59:32,439 --> 00:59:33,759
Speaker 1: that it's a law.

1143
00:59:33,559 --> 00:59:38,719
Speaker 3: Of diminishing returns too, because you cannot and there's you know,

1144
00:59:38,839 --> 00:59:42,479
Speaker 3: a thousand kind of you know, wrong way turn back

1145
00:59:42,559 --> 00:59:44,799
Speaker 3: examples of people who have tried to hang on to that.

1146
00:59:45,239 --> 00:59:47,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think women in our own age are

1147
00:59:47,439 --> 00:59:51,439
Speaker 2: completely understanding of it, and you don't disappear for them.

1148
00:59:51,519 --> 00:59:54,439
Speaker 2: And women should never a fear that, you know, a

1149
00:59:54,559 --> 00:59:56,839
Speaker 2: huge cohort of your peers are never going to go

1150
00:59:56,919 --> 01:00:00,279
Speaker 2: because they're always interested in your path like I am

1151
01:00:00,319 --> 01:00:03,159
Speaker 2: in other women of my age. You know, I'm riveted

1152
01:00:03,239 --> 01:00:06,359
Speaker 2: to know how they're navigating it, how they're how they're

1153
01:00:06,399 --> 01:00:09,959
Speaker 2: doing it, you know what they're doing, and I mean,

1154
01:00:09,999 --> 01:00:13,239
Speaker 2: the only thing is doing it silently. But you know,

1155
01:00:13,799 --> 01:00:17,159
Speaker 2: a lot of us don't need to be shouting about it.

1156
01:00:17,639 --> 01:00:22,199
Speaker 2: You know, we're looking for peace, and we're looking for connections,

1157
01:00:22,279 --> 01:00:25,799
Speaker 2: and we're looking for our family, and we're looking out

1158
01:00:25,879 --> 01:00:28,319
Speaker 2: for our family. We don't need to be shouting for

1159
01:00:28,439 --> 01:00:31,199
Speaker 2: the rooftops I think men still go on beating their

1160
01:00:31,279 --> 01:00:34,639
Speaker 2: chests until the cows come home. But I think, you know,

1161
01:00:34,679 --> 01:00:37,559
Speaker 2: a lot of women are just doing their stuff, being

1162
01:00:37,839 --> 01:00:40,599
Speaker 2: very productive, but without shouting about it.

1163
01:00:40,639 --> 01:00:43,479
Speaker 1: And I wonder, I think we lose a bit of.

1164
01:00:43,479 --> 01:00:45,759
Speaker 2: Power from that, because we all know that, you know,

1165
01:00:45,919 --> 01:00:50,759
Speaker 2: media attention is power, and I think that it is

1166
01:00:50,839 --> 01:00:53,559
Speaker 2: harder for them to get traction when they want to

1167
01:00:53,559 --> 01:00:55,919
Speaker 2: promote something or they want to say something, and they

1168
01:00:55,959 --> 01:01:02,039
Speaker 2: want to do something because they just don't have the

1169
01:01:01,319 --> 01:01:03,839
Speaker 2: the well, they don't have the media space, and they

1170
01:01:03,839 --> 01:01:06,999
Speaker 2: don't really four they don't really have a psychic space

1171
01:01:07,079 --> 01:01:09,479
Speaker 2: out there. Yes, but I think a lot of them

1172
01:01:09,719 --> 01:01:12,319
Speaker 2: don't care. I mean I often used to think why

1173
01:01:12,319 --> 01:01:14,399
Speaker 2: do women do it? Because when I was younger, and

1174
01:01:14,439 --> 01:01:16,359
Speaker 2: I was thinking, well, I'm still going to be, you know,

1175
01:01:16,439 --> 01:01:20,679
Speaker 2: jumping on tables when I'm ninety, and you go and

1176
01:01:20,719 --> 01:01:22,679
Speaker 2: why do they let themselves dispre And I think it's

1177
01:01:22,719 --> 01:01:25,439
Speaker 2: because you get to a point where you don't want it.

1178
01:01:25,799 --> 01:01:28,679
Speaker 1: Yes, you're happy to release it. You're happy to release

1179
01:01:28,839 --> 01:01:32,359
Speaker 1: such this is a thing, so you were not affected.

1180
01:01:32,439 --> 01:01:36,199
Speaker 3: But in my experience, also you know, working in the

1181
01:01:36,239 --> 01:01:41,399
Speaker 3: public eye, often people who love you are more affected

1182
01:01:41,479 --> 01:01:42,399
Speaker 3: on your behalf.

1183
01:01:43,119 --> 01:01:44,879
Speaker 1: So how was your husband?

1184
01:01:45,679 --> 01:01:50,639
Speaker 3: How was I saw your daughter came, yes, yeah, how

1185
01:01:50,759 --> 01:01:53,959
Speaker 3: was that for them?

1186
01:01:55,599 --> 01:01:58,159
Speaker 2: You know, Brian doesn't take anything very seriously, so he

1187
01:01:58,279 --> 01:02:00,359
Speaker 2: was probably just laughing and he knew I wouldn't take

1188
01:02:00,399 --> 01:02:01,159
Speaker 2: it seriously too.

1189
01:02:01,199 --> 01:02:02,719
Speaker 1: I mean it was I was hardly.

1190
01:02:03,719 --> 01:02:06,239
Speaker 2: He's seen me on the floor, he's seen me killed up,

1191
01:02:06,279 --> 01:02:10,119
Speaker 2: and yeah, well that's what he's seen. But he knows

1192
01:02:10,159 --> 01:02:13,239
Speaker 2: that that's not my achilles heel right, he knows that

1193
01:02:13,239 --> 01:02:16,599
Speaker 2: that wouldn't undo me. And my daughter was just sort

1194
01:02:16,639 --> 01:02:19,919
Speaker 2: of like, well, she's very much on social media and

1195
01:02:19,959 --> 01:02:23,039
Speaker 2: she's very you know, she's an influencer, so she does

1196
01:02:23,399 --> 01:02:25,959
Speaker 2: and she's brilliant at it. Yes, she does the most

1197
01:02:25,999 --> 01:02:30,519
Speaker 2: amazing post for the good farm shops and she just went,

1198
01:02:31,439 --> 01:02:33,479
Speaker 2: I think she just knows such a different part of me,

1199
01:02:33,639 --> 01:02:36,239
Speaker 2: you know, such a thing that again I think as

1200
01:02:36,279 --> 01:02:40,079
Speaker 2: a younger woman, she went, how dare you attack someone

1201
01:02:40,119 --> 01:02:44,079
Speaker 2: who's doing so much, who's so vibrant, who's so connected,

1202
01:02:44,159 --> 01:02:47,239
Speaker 2: and did a how dare you diminish them just because

1203
01:02:47,239 --> 01:02:48,919
Speaker 2: they haven't done their hair and makeup?

1204
01:02:49,599 --> 01:02:52,479
Speaker 3: And I think, very interesting thing that you have given

1205
01:02:52,519 --> 01:02:56,519
Speaker 3: your daughters and your son, isn't it as opposed to

1206
01:02:56,599 --> 01:02:58,079
Speaker 3: what you had.

1207
01:02:58,799 --> 01:03:04,159
Speaker 1: So your daughter's not in the feetal position. No, you've

1208
01:03:04,199 --> 01:03:07,799
Speaker 1: done that as a mother. Yes, perhaps amazing, I hope.

1209
01:03:07,839 --> 01:03:10,999
Speaker 2: So. No, they're not in fetal positions now yet. Now

1210
01:03:11,079 --> 01:03:14,519
Speaker 2: my daughters certainly aren't. Actually none of them are. They're

1211
01:03:14,679 --> 01:03:20,959
Speaker 2: very confident, very very comfortable in their own skin. Yeah,

1212
01:03:20,959 --> 01:03:24,799
Speaker 2: they've got Brian's confidence, nearly all of them. My oldest

1213
01:03:24,879 --> 01:03:28,359
Speaker 2: daughter is slightly more sensitive. I mean they're all sensitive,

1214
01:03:28,359 --> 01:03:28,639
Speaker 2: but I.

1215
01:03:28,559 --> 01:03:29,119
Speaker 1: Mean she's more.

1216
01:03:29,199 --> 01:03:32,159
Speaker 2: She's not someone who wants to draw attention to herself

1217
01:03:32,839 --> 01:03:35,199
Speaker 2: and she's not going to be in the live life no,

1218
01:03:35,439 --> 01:03:37,159
Speaker 2: so she's more, she's shyer.

1219
01:03:37,559 --> 01:03:42,199
Speaker 3: I have a theory about the impact that you made

1220
01:03:42,479 --> 01:03:47,879
Speaker 3: with your just videoing yourself songs, makeup, and it's that

1221
01:03:48,839 --> 01:03:52,719
Speaker 3: I think very few people are given, as I said earlier,

1222
01:03:52,719 --> 01:03:54,279
Speaker 3: the gift of the gods, which.

1223
01:03:54,079 --> 01:04:00,239
Speaker 6: Is this rare beauty, thank you, like rare, and there

1224
01:04:00,239 --> 01:04:04,599
Speaker 6: are very few women who willingly step aside from it.

1225
01:04:04,679 --> 01:04:06,879
Speaker 1: And most women are like at some.

1226
01:04:07,039 --> 01:04:10,679
Speaker 3: Level, maybe not not actively, but it's just exists in you.

1227
01:04:11,199 --> 01:04:14,959
Speaker 3: Oh if I had that beauty, that would be like

1228
01:04:15,119 --> 01:04:18,439
Speaker 3: the ultimate prize. And to see someone who has that

1229
01:04:18,519 --> 01:04:21,399
Speaker 3: beauty and who's opted to not.

1230
01:04:22,079 --> 01:04:25,639
Speaker 2: But you know, if you're given that gift that it's

1231
01:04:25,679 --> 01:04:26,959
Speaker 2: not worth very much.

1232
01:04:28,479 --> 01:04:30,599
Speaker 1: Not everyone who's given that gift knows that.

1233
01:04:31,399 --> 01:04:35,119
Speaker 2: It's not yours. It's the gift from the gods. Yes,

1234
01:04:35,239 --> 01:04:40,599
Speaker 2: you have not earned it, So it becomes difficult because

1235
01:04:40,639 --> 01:04:46,199
Speaker 2: you are always that's supposed to be enough. So it's

1236
01:04:46,359 --> 01:04:49,039
Speaker 2: and you don't ever feel like I did nothing for this.

1237
01:04:49,239 --> 01:04:52,279
Speaker 2: I just happened to have the lovely mother who you know,

1238
01:04:52,319 --> 01:04:55,599
Speaker 2: and I had some good genes. I would rather have

1239
01:04:55,639 --> 01:04:58,839
Speaker 2: been given the gift of music, or the gift of

1240
01:04:58,959 --> 01:05:01,679
Speaker 2: being good at maths or good at you know. So

1241
01:05:01,799 --> 01:05:05,359
Speaker 2: the achievement, achievement gift something that I've worked hard for

1242
01:05:05,879 --> 01:05:10,719
Speaker 2: that I've used my guts myself, you know. That's why

1243
01:05:10,759 --> 01:05:13,879
Speaker 2: anything that I did for myself I had pride of.

1244
01:05:14,519 --> 01:05:17,439
Speaker 2: But anything that was hinged on, that that hung on

1245
01:05:17,559 --> 01:05:21,359
Speaker 2: that never gave me very much satisfaction. And the sooner

1246
01:05:21,399 --> 01:05:23,879
Speaker 2: I could get rid of it, the better. The sooner

1247
01:05:23,959 --> 01:05:27,639
Speaker 2: I could get satisfaction from being a director or being

1248
01:05:27,639 --> 01:05:30,719
Speaker 2: a farmer, or anything that had nothing to do with

1249
01:05:30,799 --> 01:05:33,479
Speaker 2: being in front of a camera or using your looks

1250
01:05:33,559 --> 01:05:34,919
Speaker 2: for advantage.

1251
01:05:35,319 --> 01:05:36,719
Speaker 1: That's interesting because.

1252
01:05:36,959 --> 01:05:39,039
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of a lot of women

1253
01:05:39,079 --> 01:05:41,439
Speaker 2: have been given the gift of the gods would feel

1254
01:05:41,439 --> 01:05:45,359
Speaker 2: that that is, it feels unearned, the concentration on what

1255
01:05:45,599 --> 01:05:50,199
Speaker 2: is superficial, whereas what you've done is is literally and

1256
01:05:50,279 --> 01:05:58,399
Speaker 2: metaphorically made a connection with the earth, groundedness, groundedness.

1257
01:05:59,079 --> 01:06:02,279
Speaker 3: It's really interesting because you see it in the farm,

1258
01:06:02,359 --> 01:06:03,719
Speaker 3: docco in Rangel's farm.

1259
01:06:03,839 --> 01:06:06,599
Speaker 1: You seed. It surprised me. You said I used to

1260
01:06:06,599 --> 01:06:10,799
Speaker 1: be thin skinned. Do you remember something that. Yes, I've

1261
01:06:10,839 --> 01:06:12,359
Speaker 1: always been quite thin skinned.

1262
01:06:12,479 --> 01:06:15,279
Speaker 3: And now you said your connection with the land and

1263
01:06:15,319 --> 01:06:20,839
Speaker 3: the farm and what you're doing, like changing the life.

1264
01:06:20,519 --> 01:06:24,079
Speaker 1: Of the land. Yeah, I can't remember. I did say

1265
01:06:24,119 --> 01:06:25,959
Speaker 1: I was thin skin, but I can't remember. If I

1266
01:06:25,959 --> 01:06:26,279
Speaker 1: I'm not.

1267
01:06:27,079 --> 01:06:31,599
Speaker 2: Scars definitely make you tougher going life, you know, going

1268
01:06:31,639 --> 01:06:35,159
Speaker 2: through life, you just do get I remember that, and

1269
01:06:35,199 --> 01:06:37,279
Speaker 2: I look at my grandkids and I go, their love

1270
01:06:37,439 --> 01:06:41,319
Speaker 2: is so fluid, you know, what they're experiencing. Their emotions

1271
01:06:41,319 --> 01:06:45,159
Speaker 2: are so fluid. You know, they're so open and vulnerable,

1272
01:06:45,319 --> 01:06:49,319
Speaker 2: susceptible to deep passions, to deep loves and lights it's

1273
01:06:49,319 --> 01:06:53,679
Speaker 2: always hate love, you know, it's so extreme. I think

1274
01:06:53,679 --> 01:06:57,519
Speaker 2: when you get older, it becomes much more in control. Yeah,

1275
01:06:57,639 --> 01:07:01,639
Speaker 2: I definitely feel like I'm more robust. I'm more resilient,

1276
01:07:02,159 --> 01:07:03,959
Speaker 2: and which is what I'm trying to make my land.

1277
01:07:04,119 --> 01:07:05,599
Speaker 1: Obviously, there is more robust.

1278
01:07:05,719 --> 01:07:08,119
Speaker 2: You feel that it's a lot of land is very

1279
01:07:08,199 --> 01:07:13,399
Speaker 2: vulnerable because it's been mistreated. It doesn't have cover on it.

1280
01:07:13,399 --> 01:07:17,879
Speaker 2: It's not it's not it's not loved enough, you know.

1281
01:07:17,959 --> 01:07:22,599
Speaker 2: In a way, it's it doesn't have the resilience and

1282
01:07:22,679 --> 01:07:26,399
Speaker 2: the and the robustness that we need for it to

1283
01:07:26,519 --> 01:07:31,119
Speaker 2: function properly. Yes, so in a way, I've got that resilience,

1284
01:07:31,519 --> 01:07:32,839
Speaker 2: the resilience and all of.

1285
01:07:32,799 --> 01:07:34,159
Speaker 1: That to function properly.

1286
01:07:34,559 --> 01:07:38,039
Speaker 3: I have to thank you for your advocacy in this

1287
01:07:38,199 --> 01:07:43,879
Speaker 3: area because I've relatively recently as well, started buying our

1288
01:07:43,959 --> 01:07:47,039
Speaker 3: meat from a small farmer that I drive past in

1289
01:07:47,119 --> 01:07:49,919
Speaker 3: South Gippsland in Victoria, and he had a sign on

1290
01:07:49,959 --> 01:07:52,279
Speaker 3: his gate and now he delivers to the city once

1291
01:07:52,319 --> 01:07:52,759
Speaker 3: a month.

1292
01:07:53,359 --> 01:07:56,959
Speaker 1: Beautiful guy, And that's so good to hear.

1293
01:07:57,039 --> 01:07:58,919
Speaker 3: There are so many I was reading a stat the

1294
01:07:58,919 --> 01:08:01,199
Speaker 3: other day on the small farms that have disappeared in

1295
01:08:01,239 --> 01:08:04,439
Speaker 3: America one hundred and eighty thousand squat farms over the

1296
01:08:04,679 --> 01:08:06,919
Speaker 3: last I E is like crazy.

1297
01:08:06,839 --> 01:08:08,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, much more.

1298
01:08:08,159 --> 01:08:12,359
Speaker 2: There used to be three hundred and eighty million cattle

1299
01:08:12,559 --> 01:08:16,319
Speaker 2: or livestock in America and now there's like thirty eight

1300
01:08:16,679 --> 01:08:17,479
Speaker 2: million or something.

1301
01:08:17,519 --> 01:08:18,039
Speaker 1: I mean, the.

1302
01:08:17,999 --> 01:08:22,519
Speaker 2: Reduction in their farming has been extraordinary, and basically it's

1303
01:08:22,559 --> 01:08:26,919
Speaker 2: because they've just ruined their country and so it's it's eroding,

1304
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:31,279
Speaker 2: the top soil has gone. They've poisoned it with so

1305
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:33,639
Speaker 2: much glypher say that you know, they had this thing

1306
01:08:33,759 --> 01:08:38,239
Speaker 2: now where they've realized that between Baton Rouge and New

1307
01:08:38,319 --> 01:08:41,079
Speaker 2: Orleans it's now called cancer Alley because there's so much

1308
01:08:41,119 --> 01:08:44,479
Speaker 2: glypha say it has been sprayed on the fields up

1309
01:08:44,519 --> 01:08:47,959
Speaker 2: in you know, like Nebraska, in all that big farming land,

1310
01:08:47,999 --> 01:08:50,279
Speaker 2: and it all goes into the river system and it

1311
01:08:50,319 --> 01:08:53,359
Speaker 2: all comes down the river system and it's in the rain,

1312
01:08:53,519 --> 01:08:55,679
Speaker 2: and it's in the clouds, and it's in our hair.

1313
01:08:56,319 --> 01:08:59,839
Speaker 2: It is everywhere, and you know, we need to be

1314
01:09:00,039 --> 01:09:01,199
Speaker 2: really addressing this.

1315
01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:05,199
Speaker 1: And yeah, I think it's a space that. I mean,

1316
01:09:05,239 --> 01:09:05,959
Speaker 1: it wasn't.

1317
01:09:05,759 --> 01:09:09,039
Speaker 2: Until I got into the farming thing on a thing

1318
01:09:09,079 --> 01:09:13,439
Speaker 2: because yes, I was ramped up with fear about what

1319
01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:16,839
Speaker 2: we were doing to the country to climate wise, I

1320
01:09:16,919 --> 01:09:20,559
Speaker 2: was definitely very susceptible to that, and I felt very

1321
01:09:20,599 --> 01:09:23,959
Speaker 2: impotent to do anything other than doing a bit of recycling.

1322
01:09:23,959 --> 01:09:26,639
Speaker 2: And yet I felt, why aren't we doing more? We've

1323
01:09:26,639 --> 01:09:29,879
Speaker 2: got to be doing so much more. So I felt,

1324
01:09:29,919 --> 01:09:32,719
Speaker 2: you know, not only in the end did I have power.

1325
01:09:32,759 --> 01:09:35,279
Speaker 2: In the fact I was filmmaker. I could tell this story.

1326
01:09:35,399 --> 01:09:38,359
Speaker 2: I could tell the story a Regen which I wanted

1327
01:09:38,359 --> 01:09:40,319
Speaker 2: to do with the region farmers, but then was talked

1328
01:09:40,359 --> 01:09:43,279
Speaker 2: in the fact note has to be your story of discovery,

1329
01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:46,319
Speaker 2: which was a very good thing, and the producer Tina

1330
01:09:46,399 --> 01:09:47,879
Speaker 2: Dalton was the one who pushed me there.

1331
01:09:47,959 --> 01:09:48,399
Speaker 1: I was a.

1332
01:09:48,359 --> 01:09:51,959
Speaker 2: Farmer, so I could change my farm, you know, I

1333
01:09:51,959 --> 01:09:53,839
Speaker 2: could change the way I farmed from just being a

1334
01:09:53,879 --> 01:09:57,079
Speaker 2: conventional farmer to really paying attention to looking after my

1335
01:09:57,199 --> 01:09:58,079
Speaker 2: soil and my lad.

1336
01:09:58,519 --> 01:09:59,559
Speaker 1: And I was a consumer.

1337
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:04,159
Speaker 2: I could really make sure that my values about climate

1338
01:10:04,359 --> 01:10:07,519
Speaker 2: and being and being an environmentalist and caring about what

1339
01:10:07,679 --> 01:10:10,839
Speaker 2: was going on with the water and our table, our

1340
01:10:10,879 --> 01:10:14,319
Speaker 2: water table and our soil, I could change that around

1341
01:10:14,519 --> 01:10:18,639
Speaker 2: just my small thing also, and I could understand that

1342
01:10:18,999 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 2: to put my values those values, I could buy according

1343
01:10:23,519 --> 01:10:25,959
Speaker 2: to my values of being an environmentalist.

1344
01:10:26,439 --> 01:10:31,319
Speaker 1: Rachel Ward, God, I love you Oh, thanks, thank you.

1345
01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:33,479
Speaker 2: I can't believe I spent so much time banging on

1346
01:10:33,559 --> 01:10:35,159
Speaker 2: about the early days.

1347
01:10:35,519 --> 01:10:38,839
Speaker 3: But it's interesting the journey of how one comes to

1348
01:10:38,919 --> 01:10:43,239
Speaker 3: where they are. Sometimes you can only recognize it by

1349
01:10:43,359 --> 01:10:46,639
Speaker 3: turning to look back and hopefully not turning into a

1350
01:10:46,679 --> 01:10:47,439
Speaker 3: pillar of salt.

1351
01:10:48,159 --> 01:10:50,879
Speaker 2: Thanks for being such a great year, and I'll have

1352
01:10:50,919 --> 01:10:53,239
Speaker 2: to catch up with your life right now.

1353
01:10:56,719 --> 01:10:56,919
Speaker 1: Wow.

1354
01:10:56,959 --> 01:11:00,639
Speaker 3: What struck me most about this conversation is how matter

1355
01:11:00,719 --> 01:11:05,399
Speaker 3: of fact Rachel is about endings. There is something deeply

1356
01:11:05,559 --> 01:11:09,359
Speaker 3: radical about a woman who refuses to cling to the

1357
01:11:09,399 --> 01:11:13,119
Speaker 3: glory of youth, who refuses to pretend she isn't aging,

1358
01:11:13,199 --> 01:11:16,599
Speaker 3: who refuses to stay where she no longer feels she

1359
01:11:16,679 --> 01:11:22,639
Speaker 3: belongs and instead chooses the farm, the dirt, the long view.

1360
01:11:23,479 --> 01:11:26,519
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening to No Filter. The

1361
01:11:26,599 --> 01:11:29,999
Speaker 3: executive producer of No Filter is bre Player. The assistant

1362
01:11:29,999 --> 01:11:33,999
Speaker 3: producer is Coco Levine. Audio production by Jacob Brown and

1363
01:11:34,119 --> 01:11:38,199
Speaker 3: video editing by Josh Green. I am your host, Kate Lanebrook.

1364
01:11:38,359 --> 01:11:42,679
Speaker 3: I can't wait to see you next Monday. Mamma Mia

1365
01:11:42,799 --> 01:11:45,599
Speaker 3: acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters that

1366
01:11:45,639 --> 01:11:47,279
Speaker 3: this podcast is recorded on