Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Moodybody.
Speaker 2: I've now had the benefit of hindsight where I've been
Speaker 2: able to compare a spinal cord injury that has caused
Speaker 2: quadriplegia to depression and anxiety and panic attacks, and I
Speaker 2: think I can safely say that I have been far
Speaker 2: more productive with the spinal cord injury than I was
Speaker 2: with depressions. It's never too late to take a different
Speaker 2: path or try something different. Like you said, it's okay
Speaker 2: to be wrong. I think being wrong is awesome. Being
Speaker 2: wrong is an opportunity to learn. I think we misstep
Speaker 2: and it's okay. But I think someone also told me
Speaker 2: that life is not a dress rehearsal. It's happening right now.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the C's the Ya Podcast. Busy and happy
Speaker 1: are not the same thing. We too rarely question what
Speaker 1: makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but
Speaker 1: rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than
Speaker 1: one way. So this is a platform to hear and
Speaker 1: explore the stories of those who found lives. They adore,
Speaker 1: the good, bad and ugly. The best and worst day
Speaker 1: will bear all the facets of seizing your yea I'm
Speaker 1: Sarah Davidson or Spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned funentrepreneur
Speaker 1: who swapped the suits and heels to co found matcha
Speaker 1: Maiden and matcha Milk Bar. CZA is a series of
Speaker 1: conversations on finding a life you love and exploring the
Speaker 1: self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment along the way. Hello,
Speaker 1: beautiful people, back in your ears today with an og interview.
Speaker 1: It's been so much fun adding yeas of our lives
Speaker 1: to the mix for something different, and I hope you
Speaker 1: enjoyed this week's air a few days ago. Don't forget
Speaker 1: that segment is wholly dedicated to this beautiful yighborhood and
Speaker 1: meant to be something we create together, implementing your feedback
Speaker 1: from the servia. So please keep those Yighborhood Watch submissions
Speaker 1: and feel good recommendations coming so we can keep getting
Speaker 1: better and brighter each week to our regular scheduling. Today's
Speaker 1: guest was actually also a yighborhood nomination from one of
Speaker 1: our most active contributors, affectionately known as Danosaurus. Dana so
Speaker 1: generously sent a whole list of suggestions for guests a
Speaker 1: while back, and this is one that has finally come
Speaker 1: to fruition. Dana is the founder of Junior Doctor's Corner
Speaker 1: and is a doctor herself, working to provide much needed
Speaker 1: support to junior doctors entering the wild world of medicine
Speaker 1: and discuss important topics that are often dismissed or taboo.
Speaker 1: Junior Doctor's Corner also has its very own podcast, so
Speaker 1: make sure to check that out if there are any
Speaker 1: other young doctors listening in. Dana's nomination also hails from
Speaker 1: the medical world, but is not only a doctor. He
Speaker 1: is also one of those rare species who has completed
Speaker 1: degrees in both medicine and law, the holy grail combination
Speaker 1: that very few around the world dare to tackle. And
Speaker 1: if that alone weren't enough of a superhuman feat, Dinesh
Speaker 1: Pelapana is also a quadriplegic and disability advocate, becoming only
Speaker 1: the second person with quadriplegia to graduate as a doctor
Speaker 1: in Australia and the first with a spinal cord injury.
Speaker 1: Despite a life changing car accident in twenty ten, Denesh
Speaker 1: now works in the emergency department of Gold Coast University
Speaker 1: Hospital and has co founded Doctors with Disabilities with two
Speaker 1: of his colleagues. He tells the story so beautifully himself,
Speaker 1: so I'll stop myself there, but I hope you find
Speaker 1: his zest for life and indelible positivity as uplifting as
Speaker 1: I did. PS. The audio is a bit dicky at
Speaker 1: times the joys of zoom strike again, so excuse a
Speaker 1: few spots where it's a bit muffled, but otherwise I
Speaker 1: hope you enjoy Denesh, welcome to Seize the A.
Speaker 2: Hi. Thanks for having me, sir, Thank.
Speaker 1: You so much for jumping on the show. You are
Speaker 1: one of those very rare but incredible species of people
Speaker 1: who have done not only law but also medicine, the
Speaker 1: two degrees that I feel mutually exclusive, but not in
Speaker 1: your case.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that there are a couple of us
Speaker 2: roaming around.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's literally a couple in the whole nation.
Speaker 1: Before we kick off, I start by asking everyone what
Speaker 1: the most down to earth thing is about them, And
Speaker 1: I feel like you will know the down to earth
Speaker 1: things about you. But I have already put you on
Speaker 1: a very very high pedestal with this whole law med
Speaker 1: graduate thing. So what's something really relatable about you?
Speaker 2: Down to earth things? I love rap music, like called
Speaker 2: R and B and hip hop nice. When I'm on
Speaker 2: my way to work, I've got Biggie pumping out of
Speaker 2: my car. I like pizza and I like shoes as well.
Speaker 1: So shoes. They go, oh, they're great. People always struggle.
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, they're really normal, amazing things.
Speaker 2: People.
Speaker 1: I think totally, Well, that's that's the thing. We are
Speaker 1: all just normal people. But I think often people are
Speaker 1: introduced to you by your title first, or by your
Speaker 1: story and your achievements and the highlights, and it's very easy,
Speaker 1: in your amazing list of achievements and the things you've
Speaker 1: managed to do in the past couple of years, to
Speaker 1: forget that you are just a human. Like you sound
Speaker 1: like a superhuman. So I'm glad you just like shoes
Speaker 1: and eat pizza. So the first section is your weight TA,
Speaker 1: which is pretty much the journey from your very early
Speaker 1: childhood to where you are now. And that's for that
Speaker 1: exact reason that a lot of people will know you
Speaker 1: from your title or your achievements or the successes that
Speaker 1: you've had. And I think a lot of us appear
Speaker 1: like we woke up knowing what we wanted to do
Speaker 1: and having the direction that we have if you walked
Speaker 1: into this chapter of your life. But all of us
Speaker 1: started somewhere. Most of us have had periods of feeling
Speaker 1: lost and having you know, sliding doors moments and forks
Speaker 1: in the road. And I love going through all of
Speaker 1: those to kind of trace through and see how wow,
Speaker 1: what shaped you into the person you are now and
Speaker 1: particularly with you and there was a big turning point
Speaker 1: in your life. So let's start with young Dinesh. What
Speaker 1: were you like as a child. What did you think
Speaker 1: that you wanted to be? Byron and Brizzy was it?
Speaker 2: Well, actually, I was born in Sri Lanka. We moved
Speaker 2: to Australia on my tenth birthday, so I had ten
Speaker 2: years growing up in Sri Lanka. I don't think I
Speaker 2: had any particular thing when I was growing up where
Speaker 2: I was like, you know, I want to be this.
Speaker 2: As I was talking to someone just yesterday, I said
Speaker 2: why do you want to be a doctor or why
Speaker 2: did you want to be a doctor, and said, I
Speaker 2: don't know. Since I was seven, I just wanted to
Speaker 2: be a doctor. So I was never liked that. But
Speaker 2: I had all these different ideas and I remember someone
Speaker 2: really close to me saying that, oh, that's really hard
Speaker 2: and you may not be able to become that and
Speaker 2: only the smartest people do this. But then I also
Speaker 2: had my mom who always made me feel like I
Speaker 2: could do anything. Whatever crazy idea I had, She's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you could probably could you could do that. You can
Speaker 2: do that. So she's always made me feel very empowered
Speaker 2: and capable. And I hope that all kids on this
Speaker 2: planet will have someone like my mum in their lives.
Speaker 2: But Sri Lanka is a beautiful place today and it's
Speaker 2: very different. But when I was growing up, it was
Speaker 2: going through a civil war and it had a lot
Speaker 2: of conflict and a lot of suffering. A lot of
Speaker 2: people died and a lot of people were displaced, and
Speaker 2: it was a hard time for people. I remember talking
Speaker 2: to some parents a couple of years ago and they said, yeah,
Speaker 2: those days, we used to take different buses to work
Speaker 2: because if one of us dies, at least there will
Speaker 2: be the other who makes it home for the kids.
Speaker 2: So you know, it was that kind of life, and
Speaker 2: so it was a really difficult place. And I think
Speaker 2: the turning point for my parents was trying to get
Speaker 2: me into a school at one point, and the principles
Speaker 2: wanted some bribes. Oh my gosh, and my mom sat
Speaker 2: outside this school for days and days and days and
Speaker 2: the guy just wouldn't see her or take me in
Speaker 2: unless you a fee was paid. So we moved here
Speaker 2: to Australia when I was ten. It's the first time
Speaker 2: being on a plane. Yeah, I think I threw off
Speaker 2: the hallway here. But coming to Australia was such an
Speaker 2: incredible experience because you'd gone from a completely different environment
Speaker 2: to something that's just you know, the change of seasons.
Speaker 2: There was suddenly a summer and it was spring and
Speaker 2: a winter and whatever else, because you like, it is
Speaker 2: tropical country, and these big, huge supermarkets with and yeah,
Speaker 2: all these chocolates, and aisle was full of things and Lamington's,
Speaker 2: which which is something I remember really well.
Speaker 1: Isn't it so funny the things that stand out like
Speaker 1: that you've kept as such a strong memory even now.
Speaker 1: The Lamington's sudden.
Speaker 2: I just remember the smell of it and the texture
Speaker 2: of it. It was such a neik thing. But Sydney.
Speaker 2: We landed in Sydney and we spent only just six months,
Speaker 2: but I just remember living in this block of apartments
Speaker 2: and it wasn't it was fairly old. Initially, you know,
Speaker 2: we didn't really have any furniture and we got it
Speaker 2: from Vinnie's. I just remember watching Disney cartoons at the
Speaker 2: neighbors upstairs, and you know, it's really like the first
Speaker 2: time I'd do all these cool cartoons.
Speaker 1: That must have been such a weird time for you,
Speaker 1: like such culture shock.
Speaker 2: Yeah it was, but it was also like it was
Speaker 2: also very interesting and very cool. It's just a kid
Speaker 2: discovering all these new things. So that was just this
Speaker 2: incredible experience. Then my dad got a job in Byron Bay,
Speaker 2: so we moved to Byron Bay. Most of primary school
Speaker 2: and high school from memory was in Byron Bay.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was in the nineties. It was such a quiet.
Speaker 1: The original sleepy Byron It was.
Speaker 2: Very sleepy Barron. I had this really great memory. I
Speaker 2: think I might have been like eleven or twelve, and
Speaker 2: we used to just ride our bicycles around the town,
Speaker 2: especially in summer right school holidays is just riding around,
Speaker 2: eating ice cream and messing around the beach and whatever else.
Speaker 2: There's just one day where I went to my friend's
Speaker 2: house and we walked into his house and his mom
Speaker 2: was sitting on the couch and there was smoke everywhere.
Speaker 1: In the Why is that so smoky in here?
Speaker 2: She was holding this massive glass contraption and just looking
Speaker 2: very chilled out. So that's my friend. What's your mom doing? Oh? Yeah,
Speaker 2: she's smoking a bomb.
Speaker 1: What's a bomb?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I was like, oh.
Speaker 1: Cool, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: Those days a lot of people partook in bar and
Speaker 2: Bay and it was nice. It was actually a really
Speaker 2: beautiful place to grow up. I loved it. But then
Speaker 2: I don't think I was particularly academic at that time.
Speaker 1: That's fascinating. Already, everything up to this point is totally
Speaker 1: not what you would expect if all you were introduced
Speaker 1: as is a medical law graduate doctor.
Speaker 2: Right, some days when I'm working in the kids, these
Speaker 2: parents coming with their kids and they say, tell, tell
Speaker 2: little blah blah blah, how hard you had to work
Speaker 2: to become a doctor and you were when you were
Speaker 2: in school, And I'm like, oh, I went to school
Speaker 2: every day.
Speaker 1: But do you know that's really reassuring, because I think
Speaker 1: there is a bit of a preconception with certain professions,
Speaker 1: and medicine, of all the professions that you have to
Speaker 1: decide when you're very young, and you know, be that
Speaker 1: person that you mentioned who's seven and wants to be
Speaker 1: a doctor, and then everything in their life is choosing
Speaker 1: subjects to be a doctor. And I love that you
Speaker 1: are an example that you don't have to do it
Speaker 1: that way. Of course, it's common to do it that way,
Speaker 1: but so much of this show is about the fact
Speaker 1: that pathways don't all look the same and they're mostly
Speaker 1: not conventional. And your first degree wasn't even medicine anyway, so.
Speaker 2: Exactly, and does the pathway have to be conventional? You know, like,
Speaker 2: does life have to be linear? Is that what life
Speaker 2: is like? We finished high school, we do a degree,
Speaker 2: we get married, we have kids, we work, we retire,
Speaker 2: and we die. Like, really, is that all life is?
Speaker 2: Surely not?
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you are like the perfect guest for
Speaker 1: this show right now, because that's the question that this
Speaker 1: show is about. Is I think for some people that
Speaker 1: is the extent of what they think life is. They
Speaker 1: do think of things in a very linear, conventional way.
Speaker 1: And I was that person, you know, in my first career,
Speaker 1: and I shudder to think that I could have closed
Speaker 1: off so much of what life actually is about by
Speaker 1: sticking so rigidly to the plan all the time, I'm
Speaker 1: such a proponent for the nonlinear pathway, and I love
Speaker 1: that yours has been that way. So how did you
Speaker 1: first decide on law at QUT? Like why was that
Speaker 1: your first choice?
Speaker 2: Well? Actually I didn't have a particular passion or a purpose,
Speaker 2: and those two things I think are very very important.
Speaker 2: I was just roaming around and having fun and grade
Speaker 2: eleven and twelve, like I actually started grade eleven because
Speaker 2: we started fresh in Brisbane. When I started did the
Speaker 2: final two years in school, and initially I was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm going to put my head down and study hard
Speaker 2: and get whatever. But then you know, I met friends
Speaker 2: and we started partying and whatever else. My mom she
Speaker 2: used to get the report cards and it'd be like
Speaker 2: thirty days absent, and she'd be like, what were you
Speaker 2: doing when I went to work. You were dressed for school?
Speaker 2: Like yeah, but then I went back to bed.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh again, like you are just smashing through
Speaker 1: people's perception of what it takes to be a good
Speaker 1: medical student later in life.
Speaker 2: So yeah, whenever parents asked me that question, like yeah,
Speaker 2: it's work hard, yeah, stay in school.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So yeah, why law? Why was that the first choice?
Speaker 1: I'm not mad.
Speaker 2: I had this conversation with my mum. She taught me
Speaker 2: how to drive, she taught me all these things. She
Speaker 2: told me about money, she taught me about everything. Really.
Speaker 2: When I was talking about what I should do with
Speaker 2: my life, you know, law is really cool, Like why
Speaker 2: don't you when you try that? So I applied to
Speaker 2: law and I got into Laura and thinking back, I
Speaker 2: don't know if my reasons were doing law like they're
Speaker 2: probably very superficial. I thought, wow, you know, it'd be
Speaker 2: cool to be a lawyer, and I hear, yeah, it
Speaker 2: seemed to do cool things, and I'd love to wear
Speaker 2: a suit and work in the office. I don't think that.
Speaker 2: It was like, you know, I loved the law and
Speaker 2: I loved the way. Yeah, so I didn't really think
Speaker 2: of it that way. So I was going about my
Speaker 2: life and over a period of time, though, I started
Speaker 2: to become depressed. The thing is, now I know about this,
Speaker 2: but when I think back, I didn't have any insight
Speaker 2: into what was happening to me. Yeah, but over a
Speaker 2: period of time, I started to really feel quite dull.
Speaker 2: I wasn't listening to it.
Speaker 1: Wrap first sign, that's the first sign.
Speaker 2: No jeez, that's an Amberlyte.
Speaker 1: That is an Amberlte, Dinesh.
Speaker 2: Amberlite right there. I should have seen the sign, so
Speaker 2: you know. But by the way, the music didn't sound
Speaker 2: as good, and I stopped hanging out with my friends
Speaker 2: as much, and I loved driving to and I know
Speaker 2: I wasn't driving my cars March, and just everything seemed
Speaker 2: a bit dull, even the colors. And I started to
Speaker 2: get anxious all the time. Then I started to get
Speaker 2: panic attacked. It's just this debilitating terror. When I was
Speaker 2: out somewhere, it got so bad to the point where
Speaker 2: I was afraid to go outside the house. Then I
Speaker 2: was just stuck inside the house for weeks and weeks
Speaker 2: and weeks, sleeping patterns change, I was eating differently. So
Speaker 2: I think there are three things that I learned out
Speaker 2: of that. One is I think when we go through
Speaker 2: mental health challenges, there's a medical component to it. So
Speaker 2: there's definitely a physiological aspect to it. But also I
Speaker 2: think that it's a like you said, it's an amberlet
Speaker 2: in our life that probably says, hey, you're actually living
Speaker 2: the way that you should be. Do you need to
Speaker 2: adjust the sales and do you need to think about
Speaker 2: life a bit differently, and I think that's really really important.
Speaker 2: I think depression like there are causes for that as well,
Speaker 2: like outside causes. And the other thing I realized is
Speaker 2: that I've now had the benefit of hindsight where I've
Speaker 2: been able to compare a spinal cord injury that has
Speaker 2: caused quadriplegia to depression and anxiety and panic attacks. And
Speaker 2: I think I can safely say that I have been
Speaker 2: far more productive with the spinal cord injury than I
Speaker 2: was with depression. The birds days, I was a prison
Speaker 2: of my mind and I didn't think I did as
Speaker 2: much at all. Life like everything was falling. A part
Speaker 2: I've got my education was suffering, work with suffering, relationships
Speaker 2: with suffering, and it was all going downhill.
Speaker 1: I mean, very few people in the world can, with
Speaker 1: personal insight, make that comparison and give us an actual answer.
Speaker 1: But how damning on the impact of mental health. I
Speaker 1: think because it is so invisible, it is so easy
Speaker 1: for us. I mean not easier, but it's so straightforward
Speaker 1: to comprehend the debilitating impact of quadriplegia, paraplegia, any kind
Speaker 1: of long term physical affliction. But it's so fascinating that
Speaker 1: mental health affected you more day to day, and yet
Speaker 1: you didn't even understand it enough to pick it up
Speaker 1: yourself until later.
Speaker 2: And I think I was talking to a friend maybe
Speaker 2: last year who also used to suffer from anxiety and
Speaker 2: panic attacks, and they taught me that they recovered from
Speaker 2: it after a period of time, but they told me
Speaker 2: that one of their biggest fears these days is for
Speaker 2: that to come back. Wow, and not my biggest fear,
Speaker 2: but I always think, oh, man, imagine if I had
Speaker 2: to go through that again, that would not be fun.
Speaker 1: So how did you get to the point where it
Speaker 1: doesn't recur? Like what pulled you out of it? Was
Speaker 1: it the life change? Was it realizing perhaps the environmental
Speaker 1: triggers for that coming on? At what point did you
Speaker 1: realize that something was more than just the normal spectrum
Speaker 1: of emotion.
Speaker 2: It was a combination of things. So there was a
Speaker 2: medical side of it, and around that time I was
Speaker 2: also diagnosed with Celiac disease. I had a couple of
Speaker 2: medical things to sort out, but it was also readjusting
Speaker 2: the cell in a big way, changing some of my
Speaker 2: interpersonal relationships. And once I found medicine, you know, I
Speaker 2: was watching House, and I decided.
Speaker 1: Stop, it was that really what sparked it? Nod because
Speaker 1: that would be amazing because literally, one of the things
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you in a couple of questions
Speaker 1: is about plural affusion. And the only reason I know
Speaker 1: what plural affusion is is because of a House. Because
Speaker 1: I'm such an amazing diagnostician. I'm literally like, oh, that's
Speaker 1: definitely sarcoidosis because of those things. My medical vocabulary is
Speaker 1: amazing because of that show. What actually was it for you?
Speaker 1: What was it?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Law and medicine are traditionally seen as like different forks
Speaker 1: in the road, not it's not you know, it's either
Speaker 1: or it's not both.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean, so I had that experience with
Speaker 2: the depression, I really really thought about life. I think
Speaker 2: I realized that I wanted to do something with people.
Speaker 2: I wanted to do something hands on. I wanted to
Speaker 2: do something where I could just go anywhere in the
Speaker 2: world and I could just use my brains and my
Speaker 2: hands to make a difference in someone's life, and just
Speaker 2: one person was enough. Someone made a change in my life,
Speaker 2: or some or people contributed to making it change in
Speaker 2: my life, and it changed my whole world. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: that that's I think that's a powerful thing that that
Speaker 2: was one of the reasons why I thought, you know,
Speaker 2: medicine is a really cool way to do this. I
Speaker 2: also did this clerkship at a law firm and it
Speaker 2: was a small firm, and I was just like, what
Speaker 2: am I doing here? Because like, make sure you build
Speaker 2: like this.
Speaker 1: Six minutes every six minutes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I found it really hard to see a future
Speaker 2: in that for myself. That's that's how I ended up
Speaker 2: with the idea of medicine. And once I found that,
Speaker 2: I was just so energized and I loved this idea
Speaker 2: and I felt like a new man, you know, And
Speaker 2: when I turned the corner from that point in my life,
Speaker 2: I actually remember the very day I drove out of
Speaker 2: my garage in my car and suddenly the sun was
Speaker 2: bright and smells.
Speaker 1: The birds were singing to.
Speaker 2: You, Champagne was raining from the sky.
Speaker 1: But do you know that just highlights for me so
Speaker 1: much exactly what I truly believe about this whole concept
Speaker 1: of seizing your yea that we do often take a
Speaker 1: few false starts down different pathways, and you try things
Speaker 1: on for size, and not one career is going to
Speaker 1: fit all of us, and it's okay to start something
Speaker 1: and go, look, this really isn't me, This is some people.
Speaker 1: This is you know, maybe some people who are similar
Speaker 1: to me in some ways. But it's just not right
Speaker 1: for me, and it's costing me energy and time and
Speaker 1: like emotional, you know, it's costing me my life of
Speaker 1: trying to stick and make it work. And I love
Speaker 1: that you felt empowered enough to try something new, because
Speaker 1: I think some people think when they've chosen something it's
Speaker 1: a forever choice. They're too old or they've invested too
Speaker 1: much time and it's going to be a waste go
Speaker 1: back and start something a new and then you're an
Speaker 1: adult as a student, and you know, people get very
Speaker 1: bogged down in not wanting to be a beginner again
Speaker 1: and being scared of the unknown. And I just I
Speaker 1: love that you have found you know, you found your
Speaker 1: ya and you weren't afraid to go after it, and
Speaker 1: then you reaped the benefits from that first moment of
Speaker 1: turning such a big corner.
Speaker 2: Love in life now. But you know you're right, it's
Speaker 2: never too late. I once met the Delma guy. You know,
Speaker 2: I do try to stop it I did. I chilled
Speaker 2: out with him in his intra Lanka. Yeah, so cool.
Speaker 2: I know. So. A couple of things that really struck
Speaker 2: with me about him is that they do a whole
Speaker 2: heap of community work, like it was incredible, but the
Speaker 2: level of social responsibility is amazing. The second thing is
Speaker 2: you start Delma until it was in his fifties, and
Speaker 2: how crazy is that?
Speaker 1: It's amazing.
Speaker 2: I saw him and you see, like I mean, even
Speaker 2: the American politicians now are like become presidents in their
Speaker 2: sixties and seventies.
Speaker 1: Totally.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I met this like eighty something year old weightlifter,
Speaker 2: you know, a couple of years early. So it's never
Speaker 2: too late to take a different path or try something different.
Speaker 2: And absolutely, like you said, it's okay to be wrong.
Speaker 2: I think being wrong is awesome. Being wrong is an
Speaker 2: opportunity to learn. It's an opportunity to go, Hey, this
Speaker 2: something I could do differently, This is something I could
Speaker 2: do better, There's something I could do whatever. I think
Speaker 2: we miss step and it's okay. But I think someone
Speaker 2: also told me that life is not a dress rehearsal.
Speaker 2: It's happening right now.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 2: I know it's cool. Right. One of the things that
Speaker 2: really kept me going after I got this spinal cord
Speaker 2: injury is that I can say that I live life
Speaker 2: to the fullest until that point. Like I roamed around
Speaker 2: Byron Bay on my bike. I asked that girl out
Speaker 2: in someone. I took that trip with my friends and
Speaker 2: I partied in Japan. I really lived life. And I
Speaker 2: took a trip a few weeks before the accident happened.
Speaker 2: And it's one of the most significant things that I
Speaker 2: remember because it was one of my best friends. He
Speaker 2: caught me up one day and he said, do you
Speaker 2: want to go to Japan? And I was like, Oh,
Speaker 2: I don't want to send money or do I want
Speaker 2: to like spend money? Do I want to know? Like
Speaker 2: you kind of intellectualize those things. So we just turned
Speaker 2: up in Japan with no plans, just a bag. We
Speaker 2: really like had a great time.
Speaker 1: I love how discerning you are with your words. You're like,
Speaker 1: we are, Yeah, I had a great time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we celebrated life.
Speaker 1: But that is so wonderful because you know, I think
Speaker 1: there is like that adage of the tomorrow that you
Speaker 1: envision and that you take for granted is not guarantee,
Speaker 1: and that is exactly why it is so important to
Speaker 1: make decisions like the one that you made. You know,
Speaker 1: you can always make back money. You can never make
Speaker 1: back time and opportunities and have chances to relive particular
Speaker 1: days again. And I bet now you're just so glad
Speaker 1: that you didn't go. Oh, that's not sensible. I should
Speaker 1: save the money.
Speaker 2: Well, exactly because we went snowboarding and I stood in
Speaker 2: the snow and I felt the snow on my face.
Speaker 2: But I didn't know that three weeks later, for another
Speaker 2: eleven years at least, I wouldn't be standing up in
Speaker 2: the snow again. Oh my god, So how is that?
Speaker 2: That's you know, But if I knew, if someone told me, hey, dude,
Speaker 2: you're going to have a spinal cord injury from a
Speaker 2: terrible car accident in three or four weeks time, we go. Man,
Speaker 2: I'm going to Japan, I'm going to freaking Venezuela. I'm
Speaker 2: going everywhere. You know, that decision has become so much easier.
Speaker 1: And it's suddenly a no brainer. And so it's like, well,
Speaker 1: why can't you pre empt and live that way always
Speaker 1: so that you're not missing out on the chance to
Speaker 1: do it while you have it? Like even lockdown, I
Speaker 1: think is something everyone just assumed they would be freely
Speaker 1: moving in the world and so delayed doing things that
Speaker 1: they wanted to do because they were like, oh, there'll
Speaker 1: always be time to do it, and then suddenly the
Speaker 1: world shut You literally never know what's around the corner.
Speaker 1: You don't, especially in your case, you could never have
Speaker 1: known what was going to happen. And I think there
Speaker 1: is a lot to be said for sparking your own
Speaker 1: moments of like turning points or sliding doors doors, moments
Speaker 1: in your life where you voluntarily choose to rip the
Speaker 1: band aid and make a big, you know, change in
Speaker 1: your life, which you have already done. And in most
Speaker 1: people's episodes, this is the end of their story and
Speaker 1: we move on to the next section. In yours, it's
Speaker 1: barely the start. You just had already squeezed in a
Speaker 1: lifetime of revelations and learnings and pivots. But the next
Speaker 1: section is yourn ata, which is the biggest challenges that
Speaker 1: you've faced along the way, And I think it's the
Speaker 1: perfect time to sort of move on to the accident,
Speaker 1: what happened, what you remember, and how it's been recasting
Speaker 1: your identity and still going after the dream that you
Speaker 1: had before in a different way, with different challenges, but
Speaker 1: going on to be incredibly successful nonetheless.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean speaking of sliding doors moments. I
Speaker 2: went to visit my parents. It was at thirty first
Speaker 2: of January twenty ten, so a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 2: It had been eleven years most most years now, I
Speaker 2: don't really kind of forget. And then a few days
Speaker 2: later I was like, oh, thirty first of January, but
Speaker 2: this year I've had a lot of reason to reflect.
Speaker 2: But that Sunday, that weekend, I went to visit. There's
Speaker 2: family member visiting, and I actually wasn't going to go
Speaker 2: to my parents' place to see them because I thought
Speaker 2: I should study and whatever else. But then again I thought,
Speaker 2: you know what, I'll go and say hi. I went
Speaker 2: to see them, And then that Sunday I was just
Speaker 2: like vegging the whole day because that's what I do
Speaker 2: when I go to mom's place, be cood and like
Speaker 2: just hanging out shorts and watch TV. Be a slob.
Speaker 1: I love it. We call them in the neighborhood sloth Sundays.
Speaker 1: Like the idea is the anti productivity.
Speaker 2: I'm going to use that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, i'll send you. There's these big oversized T shirts
Speaker 1: that say hiberyeating. It's like you're rebuilding your ya in hibernation.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's so good. I love it so well.
Speaker 2: I was hibery eating and amazing. I was going to
Speaker 2: go at lunch, and then I stayed back, and then
Speaker 2: I was going to go at like three pm, and
Speaker 2: then I stayed back, and then at seven thirty pm,
Speaker 2: I decided to leave. And last thing I did standing
Speaker 2: up until this point was give my mama hug. Oh
Speaker 2: my god, give my mama hug. I got in the car.
Speaker 2: So it was a rainy day that day. It was
Speaker 2: a little bit wet on the road. And then I
Speaker 2: was going to visit a friend along the way, but
Speaker 2: I missed the turn off and then I thought, oh wait,
Speaker 2: I'll take the next turn off. Then I ended up
Speaker 2: in this stretched highway and I thought, okay, well I'm
Speaker 2: going to go and visit this girl.
Speaker 1: Of course it was a girl.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, there, what's a girl.
Speaker 1: It's always a girl, damn it.
Speaker 2: Maybe I'll go so high. So it's in this dark
Speaker 2: stretch of highway. There's been roadworks, there's very little lighting.
Speaker 2: I remember coming up to this little black slick, but
Speaker 2: it came up really quick and as soon as I
Speaker 2: hit it, my car lost control, spinning and spinning and
Speaker 2: spinning and spinning. Then it went up an embankment and
Speaker 2: it came back down the embankment. The nose of the
Speaker 2: car hit the road and it started flipping through the air.
Speaker 2: I know, it was super violent, like the glass was
Speaker 2: just exploding and there were things flying around the cabin.
Speaker 2: And I like to call this my ultimate mindfulness moment,
Speaker 2: because there was a second there where I thought, Okay,
Speaker 2: there's nothing I can do about this right now, so
Speaker 2: I'm going to reframe this into a positive experience. And
Speaker 2: so I thought, I'm going to think of this like
Speaker 2: a rollercoaster and enjoy myself. Stop it, I swear to God.
Speaker 2: So that's what I did. And so when the latter
Speaker 2: part of the accident, I was actually just going, WHOA.
Speaker 1: I guess, like, what can you do? I mean, you
Speaker 1: can't change exactly, But you know what's fascinating about you.
Speaker 1: In the last sort of forty minutes, I've noticed you
Speaker 1: as you have the most incredible recall, which I think
Speaker 1: means that in the moments that you're recalling you were
Speaker 1: so incredibly present and observant of what was going on
Speaker 1: around you.
Speaker 2: Oh, kind of had to be present at that time.
Speaker 1: I suppose, of course.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, and then the car finally landed, and
Speaker 2: then it was dead silent, and then I was like, well,
Speaker 2: that was quite a ride. And I was wearing this
Speaker 2: white T shirt and it was now mostly red with blood.
Speaker 2: I didn't really feel any pain, but I realized that
Speaker 2: I was paralyzed because I couldn't open the door and
Speaker 2: my fingers weren't working anymore. And then I couldn't feel
Speaker 2: my legs move.
Speaker 1: I knew you knew straight away.
Speaker 2: I knew straight away what had happened, and you straight
Speaker 2: away that within second my life had changed.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Do you think because you had you
Speaker 1: had medical training at the time, that you were more aware.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because I met the fireman that came to
Speaker 2: the scene. I met them for the first time a
Speaker 2: couple of years ago. Wow. Yeah, that was really cool
Speaker 2: because they remember. If they say that, one of the
Speaker 2: reasons they remembered it so well is because as soon
Speaker 2: as they turned up, I could tell them what my
Speaker 2: diagnosis was.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you know, like the thing that panics
Speaker 1: me the most, and why I am so fascinated by
Speaker 1: our emergency services workers, is that I'm not great in
Speaker 1: time sensitive panic situations. I'm okay in the moment, but
Speaker 1: in my brain, I'm not okay. Do you remember from
Speaker 1: the minute it happened to the minute fireman and ambulance
Speaker 1: work has got to you? What happened? Like that waiting
Speaker 1: of knowing that something's wrong and knowing it's time sensitive,
Speaker 1: but not them not being there yet, like who did
Speaker 1: you call the ambulance yourself?
Speaker 2: Like how do you know? So what happened was there
Speaker 2: was someone behind me and they pulled over and then
Speaker 2: they ran up and they were holding my head because
Speaker 2: my head was all apparently floppy. He didn't have a phone.
Speaker 2: So another car that happened to go by, so then
Speaker 2: the fire truck was the first thing to come. But
Speaker 2: they also hit whatever I hit and they lost control
Speaker 2: of the truck apparently, oh my gosh, I know, and
Speaker 2: then cut me out of the car. But I think
Speaker 2: I was just talking to the guy and was holding
Speaker 2: my head I chat but apparently I was. I was
Speaker 2: a bit distressed by that point, of course, and we're
Speaker 2: friends now he's a good friend.
Speaker 1: That's lovely.
Speaker 2: He tried to find me for years, apparently because they
Speaker 2: wouldn't tell me what happened to me where I was taken,
Speaker 2: And he said they even got to add out in
Speaker 2: the newspaper or something like that.
Speaker 1: He was trying to find you through the paper. Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh.
Speaker 2: Then in twenty fourteen, I think it was or twenty fifteen,
Speaker 2: one of those. It was New Year's Eve and it
Speaker 2: was like ten pm, mom, and I was like cleaning
Speaker 2: the apartments or medical school. I wasn't partying for some reason.
Speaker 2: And we found this police report from the accident and
Speaker 2: it had this guy's phone number on it. So I said,
Speaker 2: the guy that was accident sames Chris Bailey. He wouldn't
Speaker 2: care that I said it. So found Chris's number on
Speaker 2: the bit of paper and then I send a text
Speaker 2: to this message going, hey, do you remember pulling over
Speaker 2: for a guy who had this car accident in twenty ten?
Speaker 2: And I get this message back and it's like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, yes I do. I've I've been trying to
Speaker 2: find you. Can I call you? So Newye's Eve he
Speaker 2: called me. After we have these chats like oh my god, yeah,
Speaker 2: trying to find you. I tryed to find what happened
Speaker 2: to you. We had a chat and it was it
Speaker 2: was so good to reconnect. It was like, whoa, this
Speaker 2: is amazing.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: Since then we've been friends. And then the first time
Speaker 2: we actually met physically was on Australian Story, so they.
Speaker 1: I watched that. So when you said Chris Bailey, I
Speaker 1: was like, of course he was. He was on it
Speaker 1: and your beautiful mum was on it too.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So that scene on the show was actually when
Speaker 2: I first that was real. It was when I first met.
Speaker 1: Oh that's beautiful.
Speaker 2: So it's really cool. So now we connect, we talk,
Speaker 2: we hang out when we can, and it's just as
Speaker 2: a good guy.
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Speaker 1: in the show notes. Now, so I mean that was
Speaker 1: twenty ten. The accident, you were twenty five years old.
Speaker 1: I think most people around that time in their life
Speaker 1: have a quarter life crisis where suddenly you're closer to
Speaker 1: thirty than twenty and like it's a lot going on.
Speaker 1: You know, the twenties are very tumultuous finding yourself. It's angsty, you.
Speaker 2: Know, and.
Speaker 1: Let alone literally losing the use of limbs that you
Speaker 1: actually consciously remember having and that you've built your whole
Speaker 1: adult identity having. For you to have known yourself one
Speaker 1: way and then as an adult have to rebuild your
Speaker 1: hopes and dreams and relationship with yourself, many people, I
Speaker 1: think would have not gone on and pushed through to
Speaker 1: continue their path as a doctor and have pushed through
Speaker 1: the many more barriers that you have faced since then
Speaker 1: with a disability attempting to move into medicine, to have
Speaker 1: then become admitted to the Supreme Court last year as well,
Speaker 1: and to have the positive outlook that you have as well.
Speaker 1: Because in things like this, I have a theory that
Speaker 1: everything happens for a reason, and it explains most things
Speaker 1: in the world. When I talk to someone like you,
Speaker 1: it doesn't work for me anymore suddenly, because I can't
Speaker 1: say that a tragic accident like that. I don't know
Speaker 1: what the reason is for that happening, but I'd love
Speaker 1: to know what you think about luck. And you don't
Speaker 1: seem to have taken it on as like, oh, I
Speaker 1: had such bad luck, Poor me. I don't want to
Speaker 1: do anything else in my life. You've gone on to
Speaker 1: help other people and to start doctors with disabilities and
Speaker 1: to fight for more access for people with disabilities in
Speaker 1: your industry and beyond. So I imagine that wasn't an easy
Speaker 1: journey nor a quick journey. How did you rebuild your identity?
Speaker 2: So, speaking of identity, I'm a fairly vain guy. I'm
Speaker 2: just going to work for well, I mean for physical appearance.
Speaker 2: I spent the time doing my hair and the shoes, and.
Speaker 1: Oh the shoes. I did not, yeah, the shoes.
Speaker 2: So that identity, that was a very difficult thing to
Speaker 2: get back. I met a very very young person who
Speaker 2: had a spinal cord injury and their family said that
Speaker 2: they didn't look in the mirror for a couple of months.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: I didn't actually look in the mirror for about probably
Speaker 2: two years. Wow. Yeah, I didn't know how Like, it's
Speaker 2: just that's fascinating, but that physical identity, like even clothing
Speaker 2: and dressing and whatever else, like, it took a long
Speaker 2: time for me to myself again. It has been extremely challenging.
Speaker 2: There were days when my mom and I we didn't
Speaker 2: know where we were going to live. We didn't have
Speaker 2: any money, we were in a heap of debt, we
Speaker 2: were alone. Some days. I was sick, critically sick some days.
Speaker 2: So there were all these challenges that we had. I
Speaker 2: guess what, I feel like the luckiest guy on earth.
Speaker 1: Shut up.
Speaker 2: I feel like me and mom like some days, actually
Speaker 2: every day life it's so damn good. Yeah, Like I live,
Speaker 2: I live in the gold Gos, but I look over
Speaker 2: to my left, I can see the beach and the ocean.
Speaker 2: I see nature. I go to work and I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I get to work as a doctor, and I get
Speaker 2: to work in emergency departments and see people and help people,
Speaker 2: and we're in this amazing country. I get to got
Speaker 2: my mom. I've been educated. How lucky a mom. I
Speaker 2: feel like the luckiest and the journey hasn't been easy.
Speaker 2: I also sometimes think that you can't make a sword
Speaker 2: with putting it into the fire and beating it with
Speaker 2: a hammer. So I feel like that's what I've experienced,
Speaker 2: and hopefully I'm a better human for it, and hopefully
Speaker 2: that I'm stronger for it. And that's honestly how I
Speaker 2: feel to them. I'm grateful. I am grateful for so
Speaker 2: many things every day and are consciously I am grateful for things.
Speaker 2: I think gratitude is really important.
Speaker 1: I was just going to say, I think gratitude is
Speaker 1: the antidote to everything.
Speaker 2: Really.
Speaker 1: It's such an easy practice to work into your day
Speaker 1: that people forget in really tough times. But it's impossible
Speaker 1: to be angry and grateful at the same time. And
Speaker 1: I remind myself of that all the time.
Speaker 2: Well, Sarah, you're telling me that about your trip to
Speaker 2: a wander in the schools. I went to Shri Lanka
Speaker 2: after the spileal cord injury, and I saw how other
Speaker 2: people with spinal cord injury live there and their lifespans
Speaker 2: are significantly shorter than mine. Their opportunities are nothing like
Speaker 2: the ones I have. The support structures are nothing like
Speaker 2: what I have. So how can I not be grateful
Speaker 2: for my life? How can I not be thankful? Like
Speaker 2: it'd be dishonoring them? At the very least. I'm superlated.
Speaker 1: I think it's such a valuable lesson and insight into
Speaker 1: how I mean, the adversity that you have faced even
Speaker 1: before the accident is still quite a lot of things
Speaker 1: to have had to build resilience for and have strength
Speaker 1: to get through and to stay directed and motivated. But
Speaker 1: then add the complete loss of your ability to walk,
Speaker 1: and when you had been really outdoorsy and you did
Speaker 1: have a whole identity based around that, it's just, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's extraordinary, but it's a I think there's so many
Speaker 1: practical things that we can take away from that in
Speaker 1: any kind of adversity, the way to just get your
Speaker 1: head right around it, Gratitude being a really big thing.
Speaker 1: But what else helped you and drove you to move
Speaker 1: back into medicine and graduate from med school. I think
Speaker 1: you were the first quadriplegic medical intern in Queensland and
Speaker 1: the second person with quadriplegia to graduate as a doctor
Speaker 1: in Australia ever first with a spinal cord injury. But
Speaker 1: then found it tough to get a job and to
Speaker 1: fight for your place and have had people ask what
Speaker 1: the patient's reactions are and I know there was a
Speaker 1: time where you graduated and then didn't were the only
Speaker 1: one in your cohort who didn't have a job for
Speaker 1: a little while. So what helped you get through those
Speaker 1: darker times where it wasn't You didn't have the perspective
Speaker 1: that you do now, and the things to be grateful
Speaker 1: for were more obscured.
Speaker 2: Perhaps, Well, the I think the hardest time was actually
Speaker 2: the period after this final cord injury, immediately after this
Speaker 2: final court injury. That's when it was just like a
Speaker 2: fight to make it through the next day and the
Speaker 2: next day and the next day. There were setbacks, there
Speaker 2: were complications, there were all sorts of things for that
Speaker 2: was really the hardest time. But when I got to
Speaker 2: that point where i'd finished at school or when I
Speaker 2: was getting through school, like we'd already been through like
Speaker 2: so many challenges, sometimes life threatening sometimes otherwise. So by
Speaker 2: that point I'm like, man, I'm just going to keep fighting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can do anything now, Like.
Speaker 2: Oh, you don't give me a job, well, we'll see that.
Speaker 2: That just having gone through the hard times before really helped.
Speaker 2: I also had some amazing people around me, just incredible people,
Speaker 2: And I think that's the other thing that you need
Speaker 2: to I have. I have a friend and I love
Speaker 2: them dearly. And they're always busy, always a lawyer. He's
Speaker 2: also a lawyer.
Speaker 1: Oh a surprise, surprise.
Speaker 2: But every time I doesn't pick up the phone, and
Speaker 2: it's sort of like, I'm too busy for that. I'm
Speaker 2: to be for that. Yeah, I barely see them. So
Speaker 2: I think that it's important to cherish the people around you.
Speaker 2: And two, if people fight for you, you need to
Speaker 2: fight for them as well. So there have been a
Speaker 2: lot of people around me that made a huge impact.
Speaker 2: And one person I remember, she came to the hospital
Speaker 2: when I had the accident and she hung up the
Speaker 2: poem Invictus by my bedside. Have you ever read them? Yeah,
Speaker 2: meaning invincible, right, and it talks about the unconn Krugel's soul.
Speaker 1: That's you.
Speaker 2: It's just small acts like that. I mean, I'm talking
Speaker 2: about it too, eleven years later.
Speaker 1: And it's still Yeah, is imprinted.
Speaker 2: It's still imprinted in my mind. So things like that.
Speaker 2: Late last year, I was I had the huge honor
Speaker 2: of giving the National Museum an object of significance to me,
Speaker 2: which is displayed at the National Museum camera at the moment,
Speaker 2: and what I gave them was one of my scrubtops,
Speaker 2: because scrubtop signifies who I am, and then on that
Speaker 2: scrubtop past signatures of a bunch of people that have
Speaker 2: played a part in this journey. The lecturers that taught me,
Speaker 2: the friends that were there for me, so all these
Speaker 2: people that have played a part in this journey, and
Speaker 2: it was such a cool thing to be able to
Speaker 2: honor them in that way, because you know, I am
Speaker 2: who I am because of them, and we also need
Speaker 2: to make sure that we're there for people as wrong totally.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're the sum of the five people
Speaker 1: you spend the most time with, and you have to
Speaker 1: choose them wisely. But also it takes a village, everything does.
Speaker 1: There's no one I've had on the show or who
Speaker 1: I've ever spoken to, really, even though their achievements might
Speaker 1: outwardly seem individual, no one's really ever gotten there without
Speaker 1: a huge army of people who have helped get them there,
Speaker 1: even in small contributions along the way. But everyone remembers
Speaker 1: the ten or twelve people who have done particular things
Speaker 1: or had particular conversations with you that are pivotal, and
Speaker 1: that then you've had the chance to pass that on
Speaker 1: to other people as well. You've probably been one of
Speaker 1: the five or twelve in someone else's life. And I
Speaker 1: think we're so interconnected, and people forget that. You sometimes
Speaker 1: take it on yourself that you have to get there alone,
Speaker 1: and no one does.
Speaker 2: No one does, I know, and that's so important, Like
Speaker 2: that's really important. And I think giving, you know, like
Speaker 2: we're we're so that's one of the other tricks to life,
Speaker 2: I reckon, because we're so inward looking sometimes like I'm
Speaker 2: feeling this way, I need to do this for myself,
Speaker 2: But actually I think life is about looking outwards and
Speaker 2: seeing what we can give. Giving is such a joyous thing.
Speaker 2: It's fulfilling and it's an awesome thing. So I think
Speaker 2: being giving is also really important, so giving to other
Speaker 2: people around you even really be happy with all the
Speaker 2: money that you accumulent at the end of the day
Speaker 2: when you have that last second on this planet one day,
Speaker 2: you know, look, okay, I've got seven million dollars and
Speaker 2: that's a great thing. I need to think, Wow, you know,
Speaker 2: I've connected with so many people and that may last
Speaker 2: a long time. I think feel free, dnswer is we
Speaker 2: just we'll be happy about the things that we gave.
Speaker 1: My mum always said, Mum and I always have a
Speaker 1: laugh to each other, like you can't take it with you,
Speaker 1: so like you might as well enjoy it widely and
Speaker 1: with the people you love now, Like no one it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter how selfish people are, like at the end
Speaker 1: of the day on their deathbed that it doesn't it
Speaker 1: But I can't do anything with that money. It doesn't
Speaker 1: come with you anywhere. So I think that's something that
Speaker 1: probably we all need to reflect on a little bit more.
Speaker 1: Is like, at the end of the day, you're never
Speaker 1: going to regret. I don't think anyone will get there
Speaker 1: and go I wish I gave less. I wish I
Speaker 1: did less nice things person And it's funny also that
Speaker 1: you said happiness. We talked a little bit at the
Speaker 1: start about you know, the difference between happiness and success
Speaker 1: and how they're very conflated, and of course they're related,
Speaker 1: but I don't think they're necessarily the same thing. And
Speaker 1: I think Hollywood's a perfect example that money and things
Speaker 1: and fame and celebrity and outward success doesn't equal happiness
Speaker 1: in and of itself. So what's your relationship to success?
Speaker 1: You have a lot of metrics. You have an Order
Speaker 1: of Australia Queensland Australian of the Year this year. Congratulations.
Speaker 1: But for you, what are your metrics of measuring success?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean those things. I think. I'm so grateful
Speaker 2: to our community. Firstly, you know, to my friends, family
Speaker 2: and loved ones, from being there for me to this
Speaker 2: journey and getting here. Most of all my mothership.
Speaker 1: She's such a legend. She's like in the background.
Speaker 2: However, yeah, she's in the background. I don't think she
Speaker 2: realized he's running off. So I'm really thankful. And you know,
Speaker 2: those milestones are hopefully reflect the importance of giving someone
Speaker 2: a chance in our society and not saying that Okay,
Speaker 2: this person has a spinal cord injury or this person's this,
Speaker 2: or that anyone can make anything in our country. Absolutely,
Speaker 2: But for me, it also holds me at a higher
Speaker 2: standard to myself and I think, you know, this just
Speaker 2: means that I need to keep doing what I'm doing
Speaker 2: and to keep doing more. But success is really like
Speaker 2: what I can give back to society. That that's success,
Speaker 2: and that's happiness to me. You know, like students sometimes
Speaker 2: reach out if just as an example, I think it's
Speaker 2: important to give time to people like that and Okay,
Speaker 2: let's catch off for a coffee and let's talk about
Speaker 2: a career and what you want to do with it,
Speaker 2: and I'll help you in whatever way I can. So
Speaker 2: it's stuff like that, and it's that interconnectedness and community
Speaker 2: that's what gets us through these times like pandemics and things.
Speaker 2: Right totally, Yeah, what are you going to do with
Speaker 2: your ten million bucks? Sitting at.
Speaker 1: Well, you with your ten million bucks or two million?
Speaker 1: I think it was the grant that you've got. Tell
Speaker 1: us about some of the incredible things you're doing. I
Speaker 1: heard you're doing thought controlled rehab and paving the way
Speaker 1: for other people who might experienced final cord injuries, but
Speaker 1: also the amazing advocacy that you've been doing for other
Speaker 1: people with disabilities, because I think there's a lot of
Speaker 1: not misunderstanding, but I think still quite a lot of
Speaker 1: discrimination against people for their physical abilities.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's not just you know, we see it
Speaker 2: from education, employment, healthcare, community access. It's really widespread. Some
Speaker 2: of the disparities people living rurally, you know, for them.
Speaker 2: It's also even more During COVID nineteen, we saw some
Speaker 2: countries that were talking about taking a different approach with
Speaker 2: life saving treatments. If you're a person with disability, you know,
Speaker 2: we see all that stuff. It's been really a confronting thing.
Speaker 2: But of late, in particular, I've had the opportunity to
Speaker 2: be a witness for the Disability Royal Commission in some
Speaker 2: roundtables with the federal government and un COVID nineteen and
Speaker 2: really speak out about some of the issues that are
Speaker 2: affecting people with disability and hopefully that's going to make
Speaker 2: a positive impact because there is stuff that we need
Speaker 2: to do not just here but around the world with
Speaker 2: the spinal cord injury research that's really exciting. So today
Speaker 2: I was this afternoon, I was at our research lab
Speaker 2: and we are really i think, starting to uncover just
Speaker 2: the surface of how the brain and spinal cord works
Speaker 2: with spinal cords. So around the world we've seen some
Speaker 2: really amazing work done around thought controlled rehabilitation and drug
Speaker 2: therapy and electrical stimulations that are actually restored function some
Speaker 2: function at least in people that have been paralyzed for
Speaker 2: years and years and years. Wow, this is the kind
Speaker 2: of stuff that where we got a ground for to
Speaker 2: build on. And again this has been a journey. That's
Speaker 2: speaking of sliding doors. Right. So a few years ago
Speaker 2: I was in my elevator on my floor and this
Speaker 2: Italian dude gets into the elevator lived a couple of
Speaker 2: doors down from me in my partment building, and we
Speaker 2: start talking. If this dude gets in and he talks
Speaker 2: in his Italian accident, we start chanting in terms that
Speaker 2: he's a scientist at Griffith. So me and he talk
Speaker 2: and over time we start talking about spinal cord injury.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, man, you know, there's all this cool
Speaker 2: stuff happening in the US and Switzerland. And he's like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, I wonder if we can start doing some
Speaker 2: of these things here. So then there was equipment that
Speaker 2: we needed, the headset that actually does the thought control
Speaker 2: read your brain. So I was at a colleague's office
Speaker 2: and I started talking to him about this stuff. I said, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: we just need to find a few bits equipment, including
Speaker 2: one of these headsets. I was like, oh, dude, I've
Speaker 2: got one right here, and he opened the draw yeah,
Speaker 2: and he pulls out I haven't got one, but I
Speaker 2: have two. So we found all this equipment and we
Speaker 2: started fiddling around and realized, oh my god, we can
Speaker 2: actually build on what they're doing there. So we started
Speaker 2: working on it. We had proof of concept and we
Speaker 2: applied for a grant. We got the grant. Now we've
Speaker 2: got the two million dollars funding in the lab doing
Speaker 2: the thing.
Speaker 1: That's amazing.
Speaker 2: One day I can do this podcast again with you,
Speaker 2: but I'll be saying stop it.
Speaker 1: I just got those sumps. Oh my gosh, that would
Speaker 1: be incredible.
Speaker 2: That's the dream.
Speaker 1: Well, i'll hold you to that, hold me to it. Well,
Speaker 1: there's one more section and just a few questions. It's
Speaker 1: my favorite section, and I'm sorry everyone listening. I know
Speaker 1: I always run this so that there's not much time
Speaker 1: left for it because I just get so distracted by
Speaker 1: the story because it's so fascinating. I have one more question, though,
Speaker 1: before we move on, which is just about how you
Speaker 1: found particularly as an adult. I think as a child
Speaker 1: you might not see the nuances or the subtleties of
Speaker 1: people's behavior changing, But when you did start to rebuild
Speaker 1: friendships and relationships, I imagine a lot of people wouldn't
Speaker 1: have known how to act around you, and how to
Speaker 1: be and how to support you best, how to not
Speaker 1: be weird, and then sometimes by trying not to be weird,
Speaker 1: that'd be even weirder, only out of care and compassion.
Speaker 1: But I think, you know, like a lot of the
Speaker 1: I said before that there's a lot of discrimination, I
Speaker 1: didn't actually mean that. I think there's just a lot
Speaker 1: of in access because of miss understanding or because of
Speaker 1: not thinking as empathetically because we don't have that same experience.
Speaker 1: And I think it's the same in being around people
Speaker 1: and trying to support them through the experience because you
Speaker 1: just don't know what they're going through and you can't empathize. Really,
Speaker 1: how was that for you? And is there anything that
Speaker 1: you wish that you could tell people not to do
Speaker 1: or not to say that you don't want to hurt
Speaker 1: anyone's feelings, but is there anything that triggers you or
Speaker 1: that like people do all the time that you're just
Speaker 1: you just wish that you could just say, don't do that, man,
Speaker 1: like that is anaty.
Speaker 2: Until you quit. A couple of things ones funny. When
Speaker 2: I was in the hospital straight after this happened, one
Speaker 2: of my good friends, so she came to the hospital
Speaker 2: and she's like, oh, you know, I've stuffed my knee
Speaker 2: you know, I won't be able to walk for like
Speaker 2: two weeks. I was like, oh, it was so funny.
Speaker 2: But she's like got the purest heart and was like,
Speaker 2: I think she just wanted She was just talking to
Speaker 2: me becase we didn't even think of it, So that
Speaker 2: was really fun.
Speaker 1: I can imagine you're just being like, oh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I was like, ah, cool man.
Speaker 2: I also reflect on the fact that I have some
Speaker 2: dear close friends now who have only known me after
Speaker 2: that accident. Yeah, that's like a weird thing, and that's
Speaker 2: also cool.
Speaker 1: That is cool. So the very last section is your plata.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, as an admitted lawyer slash doctor,
Speaker 1: I don't know how you would have time to do
Speaker 1: anything else. But I think one of the most important
Speaker 1: things when you do love your job is that you
Speaker 1: do something outside your job that's completely unrelated to productivity
Speaker 1: to achieving. I mean, particularly being a doctor. Achieving and
Speaker 1: productivity and using your brain is like and learning and
Speaker 1: continually self bettering is like hardwired into your brain. But
Speaker 1: plata is what do you do to forget what time
Speaker 1: it is? What do you allow yourself to do that
Speaker 1: is purely for joy. Mine is gardening, even though I'm
Speaker 1: terrible at it and like crime books or war movies
Speaker 1: like nothing to do with what I do, but it's
Speaker 1: the stuff that makes my brain switch off. So what
Speaker 1: are those for you?
Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to tell you something that might maybe
Speaker 2: it's an unexpected answer, but I think it's important to
Speaker 2: find joy in what you do every day as well.
Speaker 2: So I find joy in medicine and going to work
Speaker 2: and whatever else. So that's super important for me. Anyway.
Speaker 2: I like to have fun no matter what I'm doing.
Speaker 2: But if we're talking about things outside, I suppose professional activities.
Speaker 2: Music like that rap yep, I love the rap. I
Speaker 2: love the rap on my movies. I like it's like
Speaker 2: being outside, like in the sun. I might I think
Speaker 2: I'm addicted to it now because I spent so much
Speaker 2: time in a dark place, not knowing whether it's day
Speaker 2: or night, injury and not know when I'll be able
Speaker 2: to be outside. My room is just like I never
Speaker 2: closed the b lines. It's just glass order ceiling and
Speaker 2: I can see outside. So I just love chilling outside,
Speaker 2: like to see they're having a coffee or eating somewhere.
Speaker 2: And I like doing fun things like I went, I
Speaker 2: went paramotoring once. You know, I've been in a rally car,
Speaker 2: I've been what else, I've been on a pallet. I've
Speaker 2: been a glider, like a you know, it's not like
Speaker 2: a hang glider, but a glider that's inclodes. I like
Speaker 2: doing stuff like that amazing, So that's pretty fun. Just
Speaker 2: anything fun, really like doing fun things.
Speaker 1: Do you know what's weird? How many people you would ask,
Speaker 1: including my former self, what do you do for fun?
Speaker 1: And they kind of look at you like what, like
Speaker 1: what what do you mean for fun?
Speaker 2: Like what?
Speaker 1: What's fun? And that's why it's called playta because it's
Speaker 1: like a call out to that juvenile in a child
Speaker 1: that people let die. And it's like, no, you're not.
Speaker 1: I mean you have to grow up in some areas,
Speaker 1: but keep the inner child alone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: Second last question, what are three interesting things about you
Speaker 1: that don't normally come up in conversation?
Speaker 2: So? I love cars. I love cars and most things
Speaker 2: with engines, Like I'm just I really love cars and
Speaker 2: I always have so cars, and I think I don't
Speaker 2: I think my middle name is actually a last name.
Speaker 2: So yeah, a lot of people ask me what the
Speaker 2: middle name is, but it's I think it's more like
Speaker 2: iving to last names. I think my last name is
Speaker 2: actually Plopano, so from my understanding, and this might be wrong.
Speaker 2: In Sri Lankan history, I think the king sort of
Speaker 2: allowed some families to govern over certain parts of the
Speaker 2: country and they literally have these houses that they governed
Speaker 2: out of. One of these houses. And there's a village
Speaker 2: called Palapana now, which is where I'm from. That's where
Speaker 2: my family has that house. So Palapano was. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: got a little bit of his through to it.
Speaker 1: It's amazing.
Speaker 2: The third one, okay, I really also like chocolate.
Speaker 1: Favorite chocolate bar? What would you take on a desert island.
Speaker 2: It's a significant weakness for me, so it's not really
Speaker 2: a chocolate bar. But I like Natella like just by
Speaker 2: the spoon.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, me too.
Speaker 2: And there's a really awesome chocolate bar. I think it's
Speaker 2: called Whittikers or Whitman's.
Speaker 1: But it's the Coconut Oh, the slab, the mini gold Oh, yes,
Speaker 1: so good, it's dangerous. Amazing. Very last question, since I
Speaker 1: love quote so much, what's your favorite quote?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I have many that I love, but I think
Speaker 2: the biggest one that probably encompasses a lot of things
Speaker 2: that we've talked about tonight, and it also encompasses the
Speaker 2: reason why I do medicine is that it's something It's
Speaker 2: a quote that my mom loves and I can't remember
Speaker 2: where it comes from, and it is that by helping
Speaker 2: one person, you may not change the world, but you'll
Speaker 2: change the world for them.
Speaker 1: That's beautiful. I think that's really important, so important. Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, you are absolutely extraordinary. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for your time and wisdom, and I just can't wait
Speaker 1: to see what you do next with this new technology
Speaker 1: and research. And I hope we keep in touch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: What an incredible display of gratitude and strength in the
Speaker 1: face of a big fat naty AA. I just found
Speaker 1: this story so heartwarming, and Danesh was just such a
Speaker 1: delightful person to chat too. If you enjoyed the episode,
Speaker 1: please do take a moment to share it so we
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Speaker 1: a review if you haven't already. It helps us keep
Speaker 1: growing and securing you wonderful guests. I hope you're having
Speaker 1: an amazing week and are seizing your ya