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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 1: Is personal style dead well, according to some people, it is,

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Speaker 1: and fast fashion killed it.

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Speaker 3: There's such choice that I think that a lot of

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Speaker 3: us are paralyzed because it's like, I don't know if

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Speaker 3: I'm going kind of formal. I don't know who I

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Speaker 3: want to be today. What I'm seeing on TikTok is

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Speaker 3: not actually what I'm seeing in the office. Hello, and

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Speaker 3: welcome to MoMA maa out loud and to our Friday show.

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Speaker 3: I think I meant to say the date here. It

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Speaker 3: is the second of May, where we take a break

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Speaker 3: from the news cycle and we all escape for a

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Speaker 3: few hours. I don't think this episode is going to

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Speaker 3: go for a few hours.

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Speaker 1: That's too long for me.

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Speaker 3: I think a little less than that. Oh, today is Friday,

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Speaker 3: the second.

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Speaker 2: Of me still, thank god.

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Speaker 1: It's so long. It's now the third.

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Speaker 3: I am Jesse Stephen, I'm me.

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Speaker 2: Friedman and I amm Vernham filling in for Holly today

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Speaker 2: because we left her in Perth. Yes we did.

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Speaker 3: It was our first live show this week. It was

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Speaker 3: so much fun and Perfey. We haven't seen Perth in years,

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Speaker 3: so we were rearing.

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Speaker 1: They were roaring and rearing and rearing.

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Speaker 4: Why not.

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Speaker 1: Look, the out Louders group is a buzz with people

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Speaker 1: trying to get tickets. We do have a few tickets

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Speaker 1: left for our Brisbane and Melbourne shows. Get them while

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Speaker 1: you can. It's such a great night. Just ask the

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Speaker 1: Perth out Louders. We will pup a link in the

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Speaker 1: show notes to get those tickets.

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Speaker 3: And on the show today, the death of personal Style

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Speaker 3: and why you're about to see a significant shift in

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Speaker 3: the way people are dressing.

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Speaker 1: Plus our recommendations including a binge worthy show, something to

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Speaker 1: frighten the pants off you, and a book that every

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Speaker 1: out Louder needs to read we already have You're going

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Speaker 1: to want.

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Speaker 2: To and Tummy Travels Coping with grief and a very

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Speaker 2: tread wife Weekend. It is best and worst.

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Speaker 3: But for in case you missed it, there's a word

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Speaker 3: that's having a moment and it starts with sea and

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Speaker 3: rhymes with monty. You might have heard someone describe an

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Speaker 3: item of clothing as monty, but as a compliment. Leslie

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Speaker 3: Bibb remember of White Lotus fame, She had the iconic hairstyle,

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Speaker 3: and it was referred to as a monty little.

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Speaker 1: Bob yes by her hairdresser. Now, to be clear in case,

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Speaker 1: how about is go out and start using the word mounty.

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Speaker 1: Monty is not actually the word. No, it's not sea word.

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Speaker 2: I'm allowed to say it.

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Speaker 3: I think we've got a b pe if we use it. Why,

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Speaker 3: because I think we'll be punished by the overlords of

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Speaker 3: the podcasting is no bigger than me those.

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Speaker 1: It's one of my favorite words. It's one of my

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Speaker 1: favorite words. In fact, I've got group chats with this

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Speaker 1: word as their name. That's because the use of it

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Speaker 1: that I really like is serving sea word.

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Speaker 3: This is new. You do like a new word, you

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Speaker 3: like a trend. So in terms of what it means.

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Speaker 3: A man named Adam Alexic, the author of al Go

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Speaker 3: Speak How Social Media is Transforming the future of language,

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Speaker 3: says that munt is sort of a synonym for camp.

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Speaker 3: It's sort of ironically cool. He also says that the

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Speaker 3: way Australians use the word as more of a popular

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Speaker 3: slang term is starting to seep into mainstream American culture.

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Speaker 3: MAYA have you noticed that this word like it was

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Speaker 3: once very divisive, very offensive. You wouldn't it is an

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Speaker 3: impolite company.

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Speaker 1: Some people are still like really offended by it. For

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Speaker 1: some people, it's the third rail. It's like the only

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Speaker 1: swear word that they will completely not say. My mother

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Speaker 1: always said to me from when I was quite young,

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Speaker 1: it shouldn't be used as a term of abuse. So

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Speaker 1: as long as you use it in a positive or

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Speaker 1: affectionate way. She was so ahead of her time. This

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Speaker 1: is decades ago. As long as you use it in

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Speaker 1: a good way, like hey, you old s word, then

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Speaker 1: that's fine. And so what's interesting is that it has

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Speaker 1: become that so like a lot of words that have

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Speaker 1: been reclaimed, like queer, flat flat or bitch. If it's

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Speaker 1: used by the group that it sort of refers to

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Speaker 1: I asked with female Jennet Taylor, because that's what it

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Speaker 1: used to be a derogatory slang term for, you can

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Speaker 1: reclaim it. So now the highest compliment you can give

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Speaker 1: is that someone's serving seaword.

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Speaker 3: I have a question about it.

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Speaker 1: Serving seaword today, I'd say, you think, ye oh wow,

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Speaker 1: you've never said that to me before, so really happen.

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Speaker 3: I think that this is also happening because of the

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Speaker 3: boundarylessness of the Internet and the loss of any classification

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Speaker 3: system right, because when I was a teenager, I was

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Speaker 3: sitting there watching a movie that my parents had put

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Speaker 3: on and this word came up. The sea word came up,

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Speaker 3: and I remember my parents gasping, whispering, and me hearing,

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Speaker 3: that's the worst word you can say. And I kept

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Speaker 3: rewinding and I was like, you can't, Like I couldn't

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Speaker 3: word what the actual word was. But now, because of algorithms,

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Speaker 3: I feel as though there are no gatekeepers, and therefore

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Speaker 3: I wonder if it's a flattening of language, that there

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Speaker 3: will be no rude words anymore, because we all use

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Speaker 3: all the words. The thing I wonder about this is,

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Speaker 3: m would you use this word to the world in

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Speaker 3: the workplace or in the company of your parents?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Oh, I would use it in the workplace. I have

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Speaker 2: used it in the workplace, probably this year only. I

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Speaker 2: remember twenty nineteen specifically, we still hated that word because

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Speaker 2: we were writing about The Bachelor. I think it was

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Speaker 2: like Matt's season, Yeah, and one of the contestants called

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Speaker 2: him a dog, and I think we wrote like five

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Speaker 2: articles about that. It took such shock. We were like,

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Speaker 2: what is going on. Got so many page years just

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Speaker 2: from that little bit. But I think it's more now.

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Speaker 2: It's like the deification of a lifestyle. It's like one

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Speaker 2: of those lifestyles is a little bit out of reach

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Speaker 2: that we all want to achieve, and it's something to

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Speaker 2: kind of work to work.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's becoming aspirational.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an aspirational word.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Is it the next iteration of bratt because Brat's done.

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Speaker 3: I think that that's how I would describe a lot

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Speaker 3: of those really powerful, interesting, transgressive women. I would probably

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Speaker 3: say they're serving. I can't say it, but you have

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Speaker 3: to get bored.

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Speaker 2: I'd always just move on without.

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Speaker 1: You what I noticed, Because you've got to be a

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Speaker 1: little bit careful because if someone doesn't understand the reference

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Speaker 1: to the little bob. Lee Campbell had a haircut last

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Speaker 1: week and I said, oh, it's a little bob and

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Speaker 1: she was like, oh what. She was quite offended, because

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Speaker 1: not offended, but because she didn't understand the reference. She

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Speaker 1: didn't understand that Chris McMillan, who was Jennifer Anderson's hairdresser,

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Speaker 1: is the one that coined that term. And this clip

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Speaker 1: of him giving this particular haircut to Leslie Bibb for

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Speaker 1: her character in White Lotus then went global, and so

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Speaker 1: the little bob is an actual hairstyle. And I'm finding

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Speaker 1: myself thinking. I was watching Hacks last night and Ava,

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Speaker 1: the character played by Hannah Einbinder, has a little bob,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, maybe I need a little bob?

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Speaker 3: Is a too little bob when it goes a bit

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Speaker 3: shorter at the back.

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Speaker 1: I've had a little bob. It's just a really short bob.

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Speaker 1: I used to have a little bob for a really

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Speaker 1: long time. That's when it was just just to be

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Speaker 1: called a bob. But anyway, I like the idea of

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Speaker 1: reclaiming words and changing the vibe of them, changing their intention.

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Speaker 2: Making them nicer.

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Speaker 1: Is personal style dead? Well, according to some people it is,

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Speaker 1: and Fast Fashion killed it. There was a story in

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Speaker 1: UK Vogue a couple of weeks ago by Olivia Allen,

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Speaker 1: who works there. I think she's a fashion assistant or something,

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Speaker 1: and she was talking about how everyone in their office

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Speaker 1: is wearing the same specific outfit. And that outfit, in

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Speaker 1: case you're wondering, is a blue men's work shirt, like

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Speaker 1: an oversized man's shirt. Office work, not like high building.

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Speaker 1: No jeans and sort of scuffed ballet flats and like

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Speaker 1: wide legged loose jeans or straight jeans. Certainly not skinny

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Speaker 1: jeans and not barrel jeans. A writer whose name you

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Speaker 1: might remember, Maggie Oldison. She has been the editor in

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Speaker 1: chief of l and of Cleo, and she's written a

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Speaker 1: lot of books and columns. She wrote on her substack

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Speaker 1: that she was horrified by this article, and she said,

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Speaker 1: why work at Vogue if you don't have any personal style?

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Speaker 1: And she said this heralds the end of personal style,

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Speaker 1: because she said Vogue, being a fashion magazine, should represent

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Speaker 1: the dream of fashion and aspiration and to say that

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Speaker 1: there's no personal style is very sloppy, she says, and

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Speaker 1: against what personal style and what Vogue stands for. So

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Speaker 1: this idea has been kicking around for a little while

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Speaker 1: and we wanted to sort of talk about it today. Interestingly,

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Speaker 1: I've noticed, in preparation for this, you've both lifted your

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Speaker 1: style game, because I would say, as I've been thinking

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Speaker 1: about it, you both really do have a sense of style.

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Speaker 1: Like I could pick what each of you would wear,

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Speaker 1: or like I could look at something and say that's

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Speaker 1: very Jesse or that's not Jesse a little harder with you,

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Speaker 1: m but mostly I could, whereas I have no personal

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Speaker 1: style because I don't think you could ever look at

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Speaker 1: something and say, Maya would wear that or Mia wouldn't

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Speaker 1: wear that, because I wear everything from suits to like

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Speaker 1: cargo shorts and tutus. So when we were looking at

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Speaker 1: this the reasons for the death of personal style, there

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Speaker 1: are four main reasons. The first is fast fashion, which

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Speaker 1: is capitalism.

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Speaker 3: Jesse, You not a fan, got a farm.

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Speaker 1: So that's this idea that we're always being told, you

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Speaker 1: got to wear this new trend, this new trend, this

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Speaker 1: new trend, buy something new, buy something new.

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Speaker 3: And we've talked on the show before about how those

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Speaker 3: trends are getting shorter and shorter because of how quickly

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Speaker 3: a certain look becomes totally saturated. So it used to

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Speaker 3: take a Vogue magazine coming out once a month, and

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Speaker 3: then the established trend might last for a season or

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Speaker 3: even years. But now, because of the instantaneous level of TikTok,

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Speaker 3: you'll see a look like barrel jeans, and then suddenly

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Speaker 3: it reaches kind of mass consumption and then you're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I'm sick of that, and then everyone throws out their

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Speaker 3: barrels exactly.

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Speaker 1: So it used to be that the fashion trends were

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Speaker 1: dictated by the designers, and that worked on a slower

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Speaker 1: scale because it was connected to retail, and it was

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Speaker 1: connected to magazines, and this whole ecosystem, like everything else

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Speaker 1: in the olden days, was slow. So magazines and fashion

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Speaker 1: trends in fashion shows would come out twice a year.

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Speaker 1: There would be spring, summer and autumn winter. There would

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Speaker 1: be two sort of main trend drops, and magazines would

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Speaker 1: then follow them. Now it's still dictated by retail, so

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Speaker 1: it's still capitalism, but it's fast fashion, so it's the

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Speaker 1: fast fashion brands, the czaras, the machines, all of those,

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Speaker 1: and then of course social media. So the good part

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Speaker 1: about that is that we've had the collapse of gatekeepers.

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Speaker 1: It's no longer about what Chanell wants to put on

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Speaker 1: the runway or Prita or what Vogue says is in

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Speaker 1: or out. It's now gone to social media and influences

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Speaker 1: and fast fashion retailers, so it's become style on speed.

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Speaker 1: And then the fourth reason is fashion is entertainment. Because

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Speaker 1: of social talk Instagram, we watch fashion almost as a

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Speaker 1: spectator sport and it's become what's new, what's new? What's new?

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Speaker 1: And do you relate?

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Speaker 2: I don't really relate. It's interesting that you said you

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Speaker 2: could pick my personal style, because I don't think I've

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Speaker 2: ever had any style. Like I don't get any joy

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Speaker 2: from clothes. When I have to dress in the morning,

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Speaker 2: it's my worst chore because I don't actually see what

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Speaker 2: I'm wearing. All I see is my body underneath it,

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Speaker 2: Like that is exactly what I'm dressing for. And I've

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Speaker 2: even noticed, after thinking about this topic, that even if

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Speaker 2: I don't actually like what I'm wearing, if I think

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Speaker 2: I look good in it, I will wear it. Like

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Speaker 2: if I think I could make myself look as skinny

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Speaker 2: as possible in it, I will still wear it. And

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Speaker 2: it was only this year, for the first time ever,

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Speaker 2: I didn't think about my body. I only thought about

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Speaker 2: my clothes. And I was at my cousin's wedding and

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Speaker 2: she had a Hindu Punjabi wedding and it was the

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Speaker 2: first time I wore traditional Indian dress. I wore a lenger,

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Speaker 2: which is like a really long to the kind of

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Speaker 2: like bridgetin skirt, Like it has plastic in it. It's

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Speaker 2: really big.

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Speaker 3: They're stunning.

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Speaker 2: And I wore like a little choli which it was

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Speaker 2: like red blue gold. It had like diamond tes on it.

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Speaker 2: It was insane. It weighed five kilos. Essentially, do you

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Speaker 2: have a photo? I have a photo?

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Speaker 3: Can you put it on the mameys on Instagram?

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Speaker 2: And you wear like a little choli which is like

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Speaker 2: a crop top and you see a bit of skin.

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Speaker 2: And I was so scared of that. And it was

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Speaker 2: the first time when I got the LNGA made where

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Speaker 2: the stitcher was like, make sure you don't lose any weight,

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Speaker 2: like this dress will only work if you have a

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Speaker 2: bit of your timmy hanging out. And it was true.

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Speaker 2: It was the first time ever I was wearing an

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Speaker 2: outfit and I didn't think about my body once and

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Speaker 2: I was showing so much skins.

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Speaker 3: I wonder if too, because there was almost like such

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Speaker 3: a dress code, there was something that you had to wear.

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Speaker 3: This is my advocacy for a uniform. This is like

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Speaker 3: there were boundaries of what to wear. And now even

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Speaker 3: if it's at work, you've got people who wear suits

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Speaker 3: and you've got people who wear twotus. There's such choice

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Speaker 3: that I think that a lot of us are paralyzed

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Speaker 3: because it's like, I don't know if I'm going kind

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Speaker 3: of formal. I don't know who I want to be today.

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Speaker 3: What I'm seeing on TikTok is not actually what I'm

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Speaker 3: seeing in the office. And I found the Vogue point

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Speaker 3: interesting about how they're all dressing kind of homogeneous, like

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Speaker 3: they're dressing in a type of uniform. And I was

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Speaker 3: interviewing someone about AI recently and you know the explosion

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Speaker 3: of it in the last few years, and he was

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Speaker 3: saying that in all sci fi movies and in all

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Speaker 3: predictions about the future, everything starts to look exactly the same,

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Speaker 3: from ads to brands, to billboards to what people are wearing.

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Speaker 3: So if you think of any sci fi movie, everyone's

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Speaker 3: in a uniform, everyone starts to look that exactly right,

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Speaker 3: that we're all just wearing like the same boiler suits.

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Speaker 1: Which is my nightmare. Why does that appeal to you

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Speaker 1: because it means, I guess, because the two of you

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Speaker 1: don't get joy from clothes.

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Speaker 5: Do you get some joy?

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Speaker 3: Not enormously? And I think that it's decision fatigue. I

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Speaker 3: think that to take that decision out of the equation

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Speaker 3: would be good. There's just the enormous pressure, and I'm

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Speaker 3: feeling this with every season where I go, I am

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Speaker 3: not buying something, And this year I've endeavored to buy

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Speaker 3: only secondhand from op shops and Deepop and all that

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Speaker 3: kind of thing. I've gone, if I cannot see myself

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Speaker 3: wearing this item at least three years, I am not

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Speaker 3: buying it. And I see things all the time that

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Speaker 3: I go. I think we can all relate to having

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Speaker 3: made enough mistakes where we go, Okay, I'm gonna buy

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Speaker 3: those shoes or buy that shirt, and you just go.

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Speaker 3: It works for literally two weeks, and then what do

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Speaker 3: I do with it? It's landfill, it's waste, and it

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Speaker 3: makes me feel sick. It makes me feel like eating

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Speaker 3: too much, and then you get a tummy ache.

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Speaker 1: That was a really great thread on Reddit, on an

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Speaker 1: Australian fashion subreddit that was by someone who works in

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Speaker 1: one of these shops, like one of the Mini's shops,

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Speaker 1: and she just said the amount of stuff they can't

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Speaker 1: keep up with it, the amount of donations because people

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Speaker 1: are just recycling their clothes so much faster. And she

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Speaker 1: also said, you can really see a massive difference between

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Speaker 1: anything that was made before twenty twenty two and anything after.

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Speaker 1: She said, the quality even though the cost hasn't changed,

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Speaker 1: the quality has just gone down so dramatically. People don't

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Speaker 1: really talk about investment dressing anymore. It used to be

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Speaker 1: big when we were in magazines, where it's like, buy

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Speaker 1: one black blazer and buy one really good pair of shoes,

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Speaker 1: and this is what you need for a capsule wardrobe,

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Speaker 1: like Staples Staples, and this idea of it's better to

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Speaker 1: buy one expensive jacket than four cheap jackets. And I

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Speaker 1: am really torn about this because fashion, to me is

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Speaker 1: probably the biggest creative joy of my life and the

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Speaker 1: biggest form of self expression that I have. And my

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Speaker 1: favorite part of every day is choosing what to wear.

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Speaker 1: And I'll often try and find ways of getting changed

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Speaker 1: during the day, either in work or I'll go home

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Speaker 1: if I'm going with friends after work. Even if I've

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Speaker 1: just got a dash home to get changed, I'll do

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Speaker 1: that because that makes me enjoy the experience more. I've

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Speaker 1: always been like this since I was a little tiny kid.

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Speaker 1: I used to get in trouble for smuggling different outfits

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Speaker 1: to preschool, and the preschool rang my parents and said

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Speaker 1: it's winter and me has brought these things in her

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Speaker 1: school bag. I was four or three, and she's gone

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Speaker 1: into the bathrooms and she's gotten changed, and now she's

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Speaker 1: wearing a summer dress and it's very cold. So I

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Speaker 1: used to have to have bag inspections before I would

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Speaker 1: go to preschool, so it's always been in me. But

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Speaker 1: I also can really see. And I don't mind about

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Speaker 1: the making mistakes. I don't mind about I love something

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Speaker 1: today and I won't love it tomorrow. I do feel

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Speaker 1: the weight of what it does to the environment. It's

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Speaker 1: good for the economy, but it's not good for my

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Speaker 1: personal economy.

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Speaker 3: The rules about what to donate I thought were really

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Speaker 3: interesting in that Reddit threat. So she said that one

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Speaker 3: big thing is that she'll look at an item of

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Speaker 3: clothing that is otherwise perfect, and often it might be

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Speaker 3: a vintage like statement piece, and she looks at it

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Speaker 3: and goes, why would I even donate this? And then

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Speaker 3: she sees a stain. And she was saying that a

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Speaker 3: lot of people don't know how to wash their clothes

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Speaker 3: properly anymore, and maybe it is because a lot of

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Speaker 3: what we have is cheap and disposable, and also we

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Speaker 3: know I can just get another one. I can get

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Speaker 3: one just like that for fifteen dollars. Why wouldn't I

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Speaker 3: do that? But she said, if you donate something with

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Speaker 3: the tiniest stain on it, we cannot put it on

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Speaker 3: the rath because it's not giving dignity to the people

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Speaker 3: that we're dressing. Like, the whole point is that they

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Speaker 3: pick up something and they feel good in it at

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Speaker 3: an affordable price point. And so it did make me

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Speaker 3: think about how we can be a bit lazy with

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Speaker 3: some of our and just kind of throw it out again.

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Speaker 3: She also said, you are never to put shoes in

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Speaker 3: the same bag as clothes. That's like a big rule

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Speaker 3: because it can ruin. Yeah, yeah, it can just ruin

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Speaker 3: the whole bag.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's interesting. In terms of microtrends, which is pretty

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Speaker 1: much how I dress, I dress in microtrends. I don't

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Speaker 1: think that's anything to be proud of. I think it

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Speaker 1: probably qualifies me as what we used to call a

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Speaker 1: fashion victim, but now it's seen as this aspirational thing.

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Speaker 1: And as I was sort of researching this topic, I

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Speaker 1: was looking at just some of the fashion micro trends

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Speaker 1: from twenty twenty four and twenty twenty five. They have

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Speaker 1: included Now, I haven't worn all of these trends, but

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Speaker 1: I've worn some of them off A Siren, which is

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Speaker 1: like animal print, pencil skirts and wrap coats, Mafia Wife,

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Speaker 1: Clean Girl, Ballet Core, Dolecre Fishermen aesthetic, which has been

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Speaker 1: like nautical stripes and oversized nitwear, Moto Boho, which is

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Speaker 1: fringed leather jackets and flowy skirts. Everyday sequence big on that.

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Speaker 1: Hot pants like ultra short shorts with blazers or oversized shirts. No,

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Speaker 1: not bike shorts. That's a different thing. Like hot pants

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Speaker 1: is more like you know how I've been wearing those

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Speaker 1: added ass running shorts. Yeah, they're quite short, and then

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Speaker 1: I'll wear like a big shirt or a jacket over

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Speaker 1: the top. Wrong shoe trend. I love that Copenhagen style,

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Speaker 1: of course I love. And that's not even including specific

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Speaker 1: items that have come and gone with an absolute intensity,

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Speaker 1: all of these things going viral, barrel jeens, sambas, the

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Speaker 1: whole debate around socks, bag charms, shoe jewelry, rugby jumpers,

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00:19:19,621 --> 00:19:24,221
Speaker 1: graphic teas, tracksuit jeans, soccer jerseys, bermuda shorts. That's literally

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Speaker 1: a description of my wardrobe. But there's a brand strategist

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Speaker 1: that I follow on TikTok called Eugene Heally, and he

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Speaker 1: posted this week about how micro trends have actually become

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Speaker 1: very low status. Here's what he had to say.

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Speaker 4: Looking back in the past few years, we can see

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Speaker 4: that algorithms completely cooked our personal style. It's not just

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Speaker 4: how exhausting it became to keep up with micro trends,

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Speaker 4: always feeling like you're behind your clothes, never feeling relevant.

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Speaker 4: It's that algorithms have a tendency to reward the most

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Speaker 4: extreme opinions in fashion. What this meant was that micro

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Speaker 4: trens got further and further away from what people wore

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00:19:55,621 --> 00:19:58,742
Speaker 4: or even wanted to wear. Who exactly looked good in

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00:19:58,782 --> 00:20:02,222
Speaker 4: a bubble skirt. Fashion became a pure simulacrum that only

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00:20:02,262 --> 00:20:05,422
Speaker 4: really existed online. Dressing in micro trends has effectively become

405
00:20:05,502 --> 00:20:08,502
Speaker 4: a low status activity because it's basically telling everyone you're

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00:20:08,542 --> 00:20:11,861
Speaker 4: chronically online, not fashion. It's cosplay. And if you or

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Speaker 4: someone you know personally fell for micro trends, call one

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Speaker 4: an't undred fashion victim, because you may be entitled to compensation.

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Speaker 1: That's me. What do you guys think of? Ever?

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Speaker 3: I reckon that it's a really pertinent point that a

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Speaker 3: lot of us are dressing for the Internet, and we're

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Speaker 3: not dressing for the context that we're finding ourselves in.

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Speaker 3: We're dressing for a photo or we're buying things for

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Speaker 3: a TikTok try on hole. I think the death of

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Speaker 3: personal style is about an erasure of our instincts. So

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Speaker 3: if I have a certain sense of what looks good

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00:20:43,982 --> 00:20:46,821
Speaker 3: on me and what makes me feel like me, I

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Speaker 3: now live in a world where I am served videos

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Speaker 3: about rules and about like never do that, and this

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00:20:53,462 --> 00:20:54,981
Speaker 3: makes you look old, and this makes you look that.

421
00:20:55,581 --> 00:20:59,102
Speaker 3: And there's been a lot written recently on how that

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00:20:59,302 --> 00:21:03,741
Speaker 3: is undermining people's instincts. So they feel like they can't

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00:21:03,782 --> 00:21:06,621
Speaker 3: go to their wardrobe and choose what to wear based

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Speaker 3: on a feeling. They feel as though they've got to

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Speaker 3: consult with GPT, that they've got to consult with I

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00:21:11,621 --> 00:21:13,502
Speaker 3: even see people doing it with try on videos where

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Speaker 3: they go should I wear these shoes, and they go

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Speaker 3: these these these like try them all on, rather than

429
00:21:18,462 --> 00:21:20,741
Speaker 3: just going, well, what do I feel like? It's not

430
00:21:20,942 --> 00:21:22,382
Speaker 3: kind of a democracy.

431
00:21:22,581 --> 00:21:25,542
Speaker 2: IE hundred percent agreed, because that's the exact feeling I

432
00:21:25,581 --> 00:21:28,141
Speaker 2: had after my cousin's crazy weddings. It was like a

433
00:21:28,141 --> 00:21:32,141
Speaker 2: feeling of deep sadness because it's such traditional outfits and

434
00:21:32,182 --> 00:21:34,341
Speaker 2: it's not just outfits that I felt looked good. I

435
00:21:34,341 --> 00:21:37,302
Speaker 2: also felt like they were specifically made for me and

436
00:21:37,341 --> 00:21:40,581
Speaker 2: my body type, and I feel like with micro trends

437
00:21:40,581 --> 00:21:43,782
Speaker 2: that's not necessarily the case. And what made me really

438
00:21:43,821 --> 00:21:46,581
Speaker 2: sad was that I feel like, now I have to

439
00:21:46,661 --> 00:21:50,101
Speaker 2: dress that conforms to what Western society things is acceptable

440
00:21:50,101 --> 00:21:52,101
Speaker 2: for me to dress. And it's not just the outfits.

441
00:21:52,101 --> 00:21:55,102
Speaker 2: It's like the big jewelry and the dark makeup and

442
00:21:55,141 --> 00:21:58,622
Speaker 2: like the coal with your eyes. And I never want

443
00:21:58,782 --> 00:22:01,262
Speaker 2: to be perceived in a certain way depending on how

444
00:22:01,262 --> 00:22:03,662
Speaker 2: I dress, So that's why I never choose to dress

445
00:22:03,702 --> 00:22:04,101
Speaker 2: that way.

446
00:22:04,381 --> 00:22:05,662
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you mean by that?

447
00:22:06,022 --> 00:22:08,502
Speaker 2: I feel like if I were to dress the exact

448
00:22:08,581 --> 00:22:12,302
Speaker 2: way I wanted to dressy people would connect a type

449
00:22:12,341 --> 00:22:13,701
Speaker 2: of personality to me.

450
00:22:14,022 --> 00:22:15,302
Speaker 1: What personality would that be?

451
00:22:15,381 --> 00:22:15,501
Speaker 4: Like?

452
00:22:15,621 --> 00:22:19,661
Speaker 2: I would say a very like traditional quote unquote Indian personality,

453
00:22:19,782 --> 00:22:22,221
Speaker 2: like and I've had this happen to me before, like

454
00:22:22,341 --> 00:22:26,821
Speaker 2: timid and quiet, and if I say something, they're like, oh,

455
00:22:26,901 --> 00:22:29,462
Speaker 2: I didn't expect that from you. Those kind of things

456
00:22:29,502 --> 00:22:31,462
Speaker 2: and I feel like that's just the way people perceive

457
00:22:31,942 --> 00:22:33,821
Speaker 2: people who dress outside the norm.

458
00:22:34,341 --> 00:22:38,101
Speaker 3: I wish that women could just do a steep jobs

459
00:22:38,262 --> 00:22:40,542
Speaker 3: and go, all right, this is my uniform.

460
00:22:40,742 --> 00:22:43,382
Speaker 1: The women who want to, you know, the women can

461
00:22:43,462 --> 00:22:45,462
Speaker 1: do that who want to. There are other women who

462
00:22:45,502 --> 00:22:49,061
Speaker 1: really enjoy it. But I do recognize that I'm probably

463
00:22:49,141 --> 00:22:52,701
Speaker 1: in the minority. I think for most women, when you

464
00:22:52,742 --> 00:22:54,941
Speaker 1: say you've got nothing to wear, it's not about the

465
00:22:54,982 --> 00:22:56,941
Speaker 1: clothes that you have, it's that you don't know who

466
00:22:57,022 --> 00:23:00,782
Speaker 1: you meant to be on that particular day. Like Jesse,

467
00:23:01,061 --> 00:23:03,221
Speaker 1: you this week had to go and do a talk

468
00:23:03,542 --> 00:23:07,102
Speaker 1: in front of a group of teenage girls. Yeah, and

469
00:23:07,422 --> 00:23:09,582
Speaker 1: that is a head scramble in terms.

470
00:23:09,422 --> 00:23:11,462
Speaker 3: Of you look at your wardrobe very oh what did

471
00:23:11,462 --> 00:23:15,221
Speaker 3: you wear? I ended up wearing a dress and like

472
00:23:15,422 --> 00:23:17,821
Speaker 3: a shirt over the top. But I was going through

473
00:23:17,821 --> 00:23:20,262
Speaker 3: my wardrobe and I go, no, no, no, I would

474
00:23:20,302 --> 00:23:21,981
Speaker 3: look old in this. I would look old in like

475
00:23:21,982 --> 00:23:24,502
Speaker 3: I wanted to look current. And it was just it

476
00:23:24,542 --> 00:23:27,581
Speaker 3: took me a really long time to decide what to wear,

477
00:23:28,022 --> 00:23:29,341
Speaker 3: like in terms of who I was going to be

478
00:23:29,381 --> 00:23:31,701
Speaker 3: that day. I think that that is expended energy that

479
00:23:31,782 --> 00:23:34,581
Speaker 3: I just I don't want to use.

480
00:23:34,982 --> 00:23:37,942
Speaker 2: Out louders in a moment we share something to binge

481
00:23:38,141 --> 00:23:42,941
Speaker 2: watch and read.

482
00:23:43,942 --> 00:23:47,302
Speaker 3: We've had so much fun answering your dilemmas out Louders

483
00:23:47,302 --> 00:23:49,702
Speaker 3: with thanks to our good friends at Yui, but we

484
00:23:49,861 --> 00:23:52,661
Speaker 3: want more. Send us your moment that makes you question

485
00:23:53,101 --> 00:23:56,302
Speaker 3: what do you do next? Don't worry if it's super embarrassing,

486
00:23:56,381 --> 00:23:58,581
Speaker 3: we are happy to keep you anonymous. Whether it's a

487
00:23:58,621 --> 00:24:01,502
Speaker 3: crisis at work, you've found yourself in some dire group

488
00:24:01,581 --> 00:24:05,702
Speaker 3: chat drama, or maybe something especially cringe worthy. We promise

489
00:24:05,901 --> 00:24:08,662
Speaker 3: we don't judge here. Email us at out loud at

490
00:24:08,702 --> 00:24:11,381
Speaker 3: mamameat dot com you or jump in the out Louders

491
00:24:11,422 --> 00:24:15,581
Speaker 3: Facebook group and share your dilemma.

492
00:24:14,942 --> 00:24:18,821
Speaker 1: Vibes, ideas, atmosphere, something casual, something fun.

493
00:24:19,381 --> 00:24:20,902
Speaker 6: This is my best recommendation.

494
00:24:22,061 --> 00:24:24,782
Speaker 2: It's Friday, and we wanted to help set up your

495
00:24:24,782 --> 00:24:29,222
Speaker 2: weekend with our very best recommendations. Mia kick us off.

496
00:24:29,542 --> 00:24:31,901
Speaker 1: She's not here so we can talk about her book

497
00:24:32,061 --> 00:24:36,061
Speaker 1: this week. I really I didn't hate it. Imagine if

498
00:24:36,101 --> 00:24:39,342
Speaker 1: I'd hate it would be so awkward. Hollywayne Wright has

499
00:24:39,381 --> 00:24:42,782
Speaker 1: a new book out. It's called He Would Never, and

500
00:24:43,262 --> 00:24:47,702
Speaker 1: it is by far her best book. It's a whole

501
00:24:47,742 --> 00:24:50,182
Speaker 1: other level, as Jesse said to me. We both read

502
00:24:50,222 --> 00:24:54,381
Speaker 1: it actually over Christmas. Jesse read it first, and you know,

503
00:24:54,422 --> 00:24:56,381
Speaker 1: it can be always awkward when your friends write a book.

504
00:24:56,581 --> 00:24:59,782
Speaker 1: Might not like it. But Jesse was like, it's amazing.

505
00:24:59,901 --> 00:25:02,422
Speaker 1: She's gone to a whole other level. There's so many characters,

506
00:25:02,422 --> 00:25:04,341
Speaker 1: but I just want to spend time with all of them.

507
00:25:05,022 --> 00:25:08,542
Speaker 1: It tells broadly about a group of people who go

508
00:25:08,621 --> 00:25:11,061
Speaker 1: on a regular and your camping trip together. They all

509
00:25:11,101 --> 00:25:13,781
Speaker 1: met in mother's group when their first children were just

510
00:25:13,982 --> 00:25:18,381
Speaker 1: newly born and at ladas will recognize this as something

511
00:25:18,381 --> 00:25:21,021
Speaker 1: that Holly Wainwright does. In fact, it's drawn from her

512
00:25:21,061 --> 00:25:23,741
Speaker 1: own life. But what happens on this camping trip in

513
00:25:23,782 --> 00:25:27,502
Speaker 1: this particular year, and it jumps through time. Some of

514
00:25:27,502 --> 00:25:31,581
Speaker 1: the daughters, they're at that age going from girls to

515
00:25:31,661 --> 00:25:36,221
Speaker 1: young women, so that teenage girl stage, and one of

516
00:25:36,222 --> 00:25:39,862
Speaker 1: the fathers does or doesn't do something very inappropriate and

517
00:25:40,061 --> 00:25:42,982
Speaker 1: it blows up everything. Jesse, what did you think?

518
00:25:43,262 --> 00:25:45,942
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's about working out the truth of it,

519
00:25:46,061 --> 00:25:52,061
Speaker 3: but also navigating that very different relationship between men or

520
00:25:52,141 --> 00:25:57,422
Speaker 3: fathers and girls that begin to look like women. And

521
00:25:57,821 --> 00:26:00,382
Speaker 3: it's so so well done. I reckon I was five

522
00:26:00,422 --> 00:26:03,742
Speaker 3: pages in when I totally forgot. I was reading Holly's work,

523
00:26:04,022 --> 00:26:10,022
Speaker 3: which imed into I was transfixed by the story. I

524
00:26:10,022 --> 00:26:14,821
Speaker 3: don't think i'd ever read a book about this topic

525
00:26:14,901 --> 00:26:18,542
Speaker 3: before that kind of grappled with these issues because I

526
00:26:18,542 --> 00:26:20,942
Speaker 3: think that a lot of women will know the feeling

527
00:26:20,982 --> 00:26:22,782
Speaker 3: of when they turned up to people that they saw

528
00:26:22,861 --> 00:26:25,821
Speaker 3: every year and suddenly the looks were different and the

529
00:26:25,861 --> 00:26:28,661
Speaker 3: comments were different, or in fact, maybe there were some

530
00:26:28,861 --> 00:26:32,662
Speaker 3: men who took a big step back and suddenly it

531
00:26:32,702 --> 00:26:35,422
Speaker 3: was like you couldn't engage because there was this new

532
00:26:35,581 --> 00:26:37,701
Speaker 3: found screen up between you.

533
00:26:37,901 --> 00:26:40,701
Speaker 1: Because it's interesting because among the parents, the children of

534
00:26:40,782 --> 00:26:44,421
Speaker 1: your friends, the friend group, or you also think you

535
00:26:44,462 --> 00:26:46,901
Speaker 1: stay the same age even though you get older, but

536
00:26:47,022 --> 00:26:51,461
Speaker 1: the children changed dramatically. Yeah, And you know, knowing someone

537
00:26:51,502 --> 00:26:54,061
Speaker 1: at five or six or three and then knowing them

538
00:26:54,101 --> 00:26:57,941
Speaker 1: at sixteen is very different, and it can be a

539
00:26:57,982 --> 00:27:00,101
Speaker 1: difficult thing to navigate with your own children, but also

540
00:27:00,101 --> 00:27:02,581
Speaker 1: with other people's children. So if you're coming to the

541
00:27:02,621 --> 00:27:05,821
Speaker 1: Outloud live shows, there will be signed copies. Otherwise you

542
00:27:05,821 --> 00:27:07,981
Speaker 1: can order wherever you get your books.

543
00:27:08,182 --> 00:27:09,302
Speaker 3: And it's just so plotty.

544
00:27:09,661 --> 00:27:09,861
Speaker 4: You are.

545
00:27:09,861 --> 00:27:11,222
Speaker 3: I have so many friends saying to me, I'm in

546
00:27:11,262 --> 00:27:13,821
Speaker 3: a reading rite. Just tell me what to read. Yeah,

547
00:27:13,901 --> 00:27:15,661
Speaker 3: this is not something that you're going to start reading

548
00:27:15,702 --> 00:27:17,662
Speaker 3: it and you can't keep reading it. I promise you.

549
00:27:17,861 --> 00:27:20,622
Speaker 3: This is just it is so engrassing. He would never

550
00:27:20,901 --> 00:27:21,782
Speaker 3: by Hollyway run.

551
00:27:22,182 --> 00:27:24,061
Speaker 1: And at the very end of this episode, actually we've

552
00:27:24,061 --> 00:27:26,462
Speaker 1: got a little treat from Holly for out louders. She's

553
00:27:26,502 --> 00:27:29,741
Speaker 1: going to read the first chapter of the book. So

554
00:27:30,101 --> 00:27:31,742
Speaker 1: don't turn off your ears.

555
00:27:32,262 --> 00:27:33,621
Speaker 3: M what is your recommendation?

556
00:27:34,502 --> 00:27:37,661
Speaker 2: Okay, I've been talking about this movie for the past

557
00:27:37,661 --> 00:27:40,262
Speaker 2: two weeks. I've watched it twice already. It's the biggest

558
00:27:40,381 --> 00:27:42,581
Speaker 2: movie out right now. It's called Sinners.

559
00:27:46,782 --> 00:27:51,982
Speaker 6: I'm in all over this world. I've seen me in

560
00:27:53,222 --> 00:28:01,061
Speaker 6: loz ain't even always password. Leave you brother, be careful,

561
00:28:02,302 --> 00:28:15,061
Speaker 6: are we what all the things that I've seen, I

562
00:28:15,061 --> 00:28:20,502
Speaker 6: ain't never seen no demons, long ghosts.

563
00:28:28,462 --> 00:28:30,582
Speaker 3: Teel now at the movies.

564
00:28:30,702 --> 00:28:33,181
Speaker 1: At the movies, Adam, watch this because I think I

565
00:28:33,222 --> 00:28:36,021
Speaker 1: never will. But everyone's talking about it.

566
00:28:36,061 --> 00:28:36,662
Speaker 3: Who's in it?

567
00:28:36,782 --> 00:28:39,701
Speaker 2: Okay? So it's directed by Ryan Kugler. He is a

568
00:28:39,702 --> 00:28:43,502
Speaker 2: fresh director, but he's done Creed, Black Panthers, pretty much

569
00:28:43,502 --> 00:28:47,262
Speaker 2: every movie that Michael b Jordan's done. Michael Jordan's in it,

570
00:28:47,342 --> 00:28:50,022
Speaker 2: but it's better than Michael Jordan because he plays two characters.

571
00:28:50,022 --> 00:28:50,742
Speaker 2: He plays twins.

572
00:28:51,462 --> 00:28:53,262
Speaker 3: Okay, so is it horror?

573
00:28:53,422 --> 00:28:59,902
Speaker 2: It's horror adventure some music. It's very original. It made

574
00:29:00,062 --> 00:29:03,142
Speaker 2: sixty million in an opening weekend, which is amazing for

575
00:29:03,222 --> 00:29:06,701
Speaker 2: an original film that hasn't borrowed another IP. It was

576
00:29:06,742 --> 00:29:10,022
Speaker 2: also the Easter weekend and the Pope died next day,

577
00:29:10,142 --> 00:29:11,701
Speaker 2: so a lot of people didn't want to watch a

578
00:29:11,702 --> 00:29:14,302
Speaker 2: movie called Sinners. So the fact that in May that

579
00:29:14,422 --> 00:29:15,982
Speaker 2: much money was insane.

580
00:29:16,462 --> 00:29:20,022
Speaker 1: I also read that he has upended the whole studio

581
00:29:20,062 --> 00:29:22,742
Speaker 1: system because in this deal that he did for this movie,

582
00:29:23,182 --> 00:29:26,022
Speaker 1: he essentially owns the IP. It reverts to him I

583
00:29:26,022 --> 00:29:28,062
Speaker 1: think twenty twenty five years. Yeah, and the only other

584
00:29:28,102 --> 00:29:30,102
Speaker 1: person in Hollywood he manages to get a deal like

585
00:29:30,102 --> 00:29:31,342
Speaker 1: that is Quentin tarrantor Yes.

586
00:29:31,661 --> 00:29:33,822
Speaker 2: And there was a lot of controversy around that, with

587
00:29:33,902 --> 00:29:36,902
Speaker 2: a lot of headlines like Variety read a headline saying

588
00:29:37,222 --> 00:29:39,221
Speaker 2: this movie made so much money in the first weekend,

589
00:29:39,262 --> 00:29:41,302
Speaker 2: but can it keep up to the point where Ben

590
00:29:41,342 --> 00:29:44,302
Speaker 2: Stiller tweeted that and saying, how is this headline warranted?

591
00:29:44,661 --> 00:29:47,582
Speaker 2: And now we have like Kevin Bacon, Pedro Pascal all

592
00:29:47,742 --> 00:29:49,662
Speaker 2: tweeting and posting on Instagram.

593
00:29:49,382 --> 00:29:52,502
Speaker 1: About Cruise Puss Thru. So why is it so good?

594
00:29:52,982 --> 00:29:56,661
Speaker 2: It is so original, Like I haven't seen anything like this.

595
00:29:56,742 --> 00:29:59,342
Speaker 2: It's about so Michael B. Jordan plays two twins, Smoke

596
00:29:59,422 --> 00:30:02,782
Speaker 2: and Stack. It's set in the nineteen thirties in America,

597
00:30:02,862 --> 00:30:06,742
Speaker 2: and both of these twins are these big Chicago mafia

598
00:30:06,822 --> 00:30:08,982
Speaker 2: guys and they come back to their hometown to start

599
00:30:09,022 --> 00:30:12,062
Speaker 2: up a new part rub and then something woo woo happens.

600
00:30:12,222 --> 00:30:15,022
Speaker 2: It goes a bit scary. Harley steinfeels in it, and

601
00:30:15,262 --> 00:30:18,262
Speaker 2: it's just like classic horror. And I'm not a horror

602
00:30:18,342 --> 00:30:20,781
Speaker 2: person because I get quite scared in horror. There's no

603
00:30:20,982 --> 00:30:25,342
Speaker 2: cheap jump scares. It's very like creepy, like old school horror,

604
00:30:25,382 --> 00:30:27,461
Speaker 2: where you just kind of everything that happens you kind

605
00:30:27,502 --> 00:30:29,582
Speaker 2: of expect. But it is so.

606
00:30:29,862 --> 00:30:32,062
Speaker 1: Well dune like it does thic violence.

607
00:30:32,062 --> 00:30:34,582
Speaker 2: It does get a bit graphic towards the end, but

608
00:30:34,661 --> 00:30:35,941
Speaker 2: not like over the top.

609
00:30:36,262 --> 00:30:38,902
Speaker 1: I also heard there's a lot of women receiving oral sex,

610
00:30:39,022 --> 00:30:40,221
Speaker 1: is that correct? Correct?

611
00:30:40,302 --> 00:30:43,262
Speaker 2: Which I think there should be more of. Yeah.

612
00:30:43,342 --> 00:30:45,062
Speaker 3: Oh, I like seeing scary things, and I think you

613
00:30:45,102 --> 00:30:46,462
Speaker 3: have to see them at the movies. I think that's

614
00:30:46,462 --> 00:30:49,182
Speaker 3: the rule. You get the full experience in the cinema.

615
00:30:49,222 --> 00:30:50,942
Speaker 2: It is really and I want to watch it again

616
00:30:51,022 --> 00:30:51,462
Speaker 2: third time.

617
00:30:51,942 --> 00:30:56,342
Speaker 3: My recommendation is season seven of Black Mirror on Netflix.

618
00:30:56,382 --> 00:30:57,181
Speaker 2: Is anyone else watching it?

619
00:30:57,262 --> 00:30:57,382
Speaker 5: Yes?

620
00:30:57,502 --> 00:31:00,622
Speaker 1: I've watched one episode, Yeah, which one? And I don't

621
00:31:00,702 --> 00:31:02,942
Speaker 1: love Black Mirror. I get a bit creeped by.

622
00:31:02,782 --> 00:31:05,902
Speaker 3: It, so I was off it after maybe the last

623
00:31:05,942 --> 00:31:08,742
Speaker 3: few seasons. There were a few duds where I just went, no,

624
00:31:09,542 --> 00:31:14,502
Speaker 3: but your best when it is like an essay on

625
00:31:14,742 --> 00:31:18,022
Speaker 3: technology and ethics and you take me in a really

626
00:31:18,062 --> 00:31:21,822
Speaker 3: unexpected direction. And I feel like this season has really

627
00:31:21,862 --> 00:31:23,502
Speaker 3: gone back to its roots.

628
00:31:25,622 --> 00:31:32,142
Speaker 6: We'd like to welcome you back. Ready, Yeah, three two

629
00:31:33,182 --> 00:31:33,941
Speaker 6: and action.

630
00:31:34,702 --> 00:31:40,022
Speaker 2: They call it mind expanding, the alter your neural structure.

631
00:31:40,902 --> 00:31:50,342
Speaker 1: The mind is a computer. Suddenly, they're not just more receptive,

632
00:31:51,902 --> 00:31:55,702
Speaker 1: you become a receiver. They're like little mini movies.

633
00:31:55,942 --> 00:31:58,142
Speaker 3: They are they are. So I would say if you're

634
00:31:58,262 --> 00:32:00,902
Speaker 3: sort of like, oh, I don't know about watching this,

635
00:32:01,382 --> 00:32:03,782
Speaker 3: just watch the first episode and see what you think.

636
00:32:03,822 --> 00:32:06,302
Speaker 3: That gives you tonally a vibe of what it's like.

637
00:32:06,382 --> 00:32:08,262
Speaker 1: It has I watched one with Emma Corn in it,

638
00:32:08,302 --> 00:32:12,062
Speaker 1: which was an that was really beautiful about this are

639
00:32:12,102 --> 00:32:14,342
Speaker 1: you kind of even explain what it's about. But it

640
00:32:14,502 --> 00:32:17,342
Speaker 1: has the most amazing stars in it. It's like very

641
00:32:17,342 --> 00:32:19,342
Speaker 1: prestio just to be in it. And it's not a

642
00:32:19,422 --> 00:32:20,941
Speaker 1: lot of work for them to do. It's only a

643
00:32:20,942 --> 00:32:21,862
Speaker 1: couple of weeks shooting.

644
00:32:22,022 --> 00:32:25,342
Speaker 3: Well. This first episode has Rashida Jones and Chris O'Dowd

645
00:32:25,622 --> 00:32:29,262
Speaker 3: in it, and it is about a woman. She plays

646
00:32:29,262 --> 00:32:32,902
Speaker 3: a teacher who has a brain humor that would claim

647
00:32:32,942 --> 00:32:37,102
Speaker 3: her life right, but there is a new technology they

648
00:32:37,142 --> 00:32:42,062
Speaker 3: can basically put something in her head save her life.

649
00:32:42,262 --> 00:32:45,862
Speaker 3: But it's a subscription model. It is so clever. It

650
00:32:45,862 --> 00:32:48,902
Speaker 3: provides commentary on sort of the intersection between capitalism and

651
00:32:48,942 --> 00:32:52,221
Speaker 3: healthcare and how much that especially in the US, and

652
00:32:52,262 --> 00:32:56,222
Speaker 3: the never ending treadmill of tech subscriptions because every time

653
00:32:56,262 --> 00:32:58,782
Speaker 3: you feel like you've got the right subscription, you upgrade,

654
00:32:58,862 --> 00:33:00,582
Speaker 3: and then you have to upgrade, then you have to upgrade.

655
00:33:00,742 --> 00:33:03,302
Speaker 3: It's just so so clever. So that is on Netflix,

656
00:33:03,342 --> 00:33:06,262
Speaker 3: Black Mirror. Watch the first episode and if you like that,

657
00:33:06,382 --> 00:33:09,822
Speaker 3: watch all the rest. It's brilliant. After the break, one

658
00:33:09,822 --> 00:33:12,422
Speaker 3: of Us is trialing the trad wife life and we've

659
00:33:12,462 --> 00:33:14,582
Speaker 3: got some thoughts out loud as.

660
00:33:14,622 --> 00:33:16,342
Speaker 1: If you want to listen to us every day of

661
00:33:16,382 --> 00:33:19,142
Speaker 1: the week, you can get access to exclusive segments on

662
00:33:19,262 --> 00:33:22,862
Speaker 1: Tuesdays and Thursdays by becoming a Mum and mea subscriber.

663
00:33:23,262 --> 00:33:25,382
Speaker 1: Follow the link in the show notes to subscribe and

664
00:33:25,462 --> 00:33:27,822
Speaker 1: support us. And a big thank you to all our

665
00:33:27,862 --> 00:33:32,822
Speaker 1: current subscribers.

666
00:33:38,302 --> 00:33:40,822
Speaker 3: It is time for best and Worst. This is the

667
00:33:40,862 --> 00:33:42,741
Speaker 3: part of the show where we share a little bit

668
00:33:42,742 --> 00:33:45,982
Speaker 3: more from our personal lives. M what was your worst.

669
00:33:45,661 --> 00:33:46,342
Speaker 1: Of this week?

670
00:33:46,742 --> 00:33:49,782
Speaker 2: My worst this week? So, my grandfather passed away a

671
00:33:49,862 --> 00:33:51,782
Speaker 2: few weeks ago. I have talked about it on a

672
00:33:51,822 --> 00:33:55,422
Speaker 2: subs episode before, but I haven't been dealing with it well.

673
00:33:55,462 --> 00:33:57,221
Speaker 2: And I thought I'd be able to deal with it

674
00:33:57,302 --> 00:34:01,461
Speaker 2: better being a grandchild, because every time one of my

675
00:34:01,542 --> 00:34:05,741
Speaker 2: friends loses a grandparent, it feels so separate and it

676
00:34:05,742 --> 00:34:07,742
Speaker 2: feels like, oh, I have to travel to this place

677
00:34:07,742 --> 00:34:09,502
Speaker 2: because it's my grandparents funeral, and I'm.

678
00:34:09,422 --> 00:34:10,861
Speaker 3: Like, who I didn't know very well?

679
00:34:11,502 --> 00:34:11,741
Speaker 4: Yeah?

680
00:34:11,862 --> 00:34:13,942
Speaker 2: And I was and I still am to my nana.

681
00:34:13,982 --> 00:34:16,902
Speaker 2: I was so close to my grandfather. He like raised

682
00:34:16,942 --> 00:34:20,382
Speaker 2: me for about eighty years. Because both my parents, and

683
00:34:20,422 --> 00:34:22,622
Speaker 2: my nana was working and he retired when he moved

684
00:34:22,661 --> 00:34:24,022
Speaker 2: to Australia, so it was just me and him.

685
00:34:24,181 --> 00:34:24,742
Speaker 1: Oh wow.

686
00:34:24,982 --> 00:34:27,022
Speaker 2: And he dropped me to school and picked me up

687
00:34:27,062 --> 00:34:29,542
Speaker 2: from school till I was seventeen years old, like every

688
00:34:29,582 --> 00:34:31,861
Speaker 2: single day. We lived with them for a really long

689
00:34:31,862 --> 00:34:34,262
Speaker 2: time in my childhood. He was just like a person

690
00:34:34,422 --> 00:34:38,261
Speaker 2: who felt like as close to my parents as I

691
00:34:38,382 --> 00:34:42,942
Speaker 2: like another parent. And it's something that I feel like

692
00:34:43,022 --> 00:34:45,542
Speaker 2: after two weeks, I should be in a better spot

693
00:34:45,661 --> 00:34:47,622
Speaker 2: after two weeks, but I'm not.

694
00:34:47,982 --> 00:34:48,502
Speaker 1: Why would you.

695
00:34:48,661 --> 00:34:52,502
Speaker 2: I'm just so sad all the time. Of course you're sad.

696
00:34:52,942 --> 00:34:57,622
Speaker 2: I really miss him. Oh I'm so sorry, and I

697
00:34:57,661 --> 00:34:59,341
Speaker 2: wish he was here so you could like see me

698
00:34:59,422 --> 00:35:02,942
Speaker 2: do these live shows because he was so excited, but

699
00:35:03,622 --> 00:35:05,701
Speaker 2: he's just not And I'm like, there's so many things

700
00:35:05,701 --> 00:35:08,341
Speaker 2: that are happening in my life and I'm still very

701
00:35:08,382 --> 00:35:10,542
Speaker 2: much like, Oh, I can't I to tell Papa about this,

702
00:35:10,622 --> 00:35:13,102
Speaker 2: And then I remember it feels like it's been so

703
00:35:13,261 --> 00:35:16,422
Speaker 2: long but also not enough time. And I think it's

704
00:35:16,701 --> 00:35:19,622
Speaker 2: the first experience death experience I've experienced as an adult,

705
00:35:19,741 --> 00:35:24,301
Speaker 2: and I think there's something so bittersweet about losing a

706
00:35:24,342 --> 00:35:28,622
Speaker 2: grandparent because you're in this part like I've been with

707
00:35:28,701 --> 00:35:31,262
Speaker 2: him for twenty nine years, but he lived for ninety

708
00:35:31,302 --> 00:35:33,382
Speaker 2: four years and I was such a small part of

709
00:35:33,422 --> 00:35:36,701
Speaker 2: his huge life, but he was my entire life. And

710
00:35:36,741 --> 00:35:40,022
Speaker 2: I think there's something in it's so sad that I'm

711
00:35:40,062 --> 00:35:42,582
Speaker 2: an adult so I get to experience all these feelings

712
00:35:42,582 --> 00:35:44,462
Speaker 2: that I didn't experience as a kid when I lost

713
00:35:44,502 --> 00:35:49,262
Speaker 2: my paternal grandparents. But at the same time, it feels heavier,

714
00:35:49,622 --> 00:35:52,102
Speaker 2: like it feels like there's this whole part that I'm

715
00:35:52,102 --> 00:35:53,942
Speaker 2: going to live the rest of my life, like I

716
00:35:53,982 --> 00:35:56,582
Speaker 2: could have children or get married that he will have experience,

717
00:35:57,221 --> 00:36:00,942
Speaker 2: and it's just really sad, Like it's so sad.

718
00:36:01,582 --> 00:36:05,142
Speaker 3: It's yeah, I'm so sorry. And I think that the

719
00:36:05,221 --> 00:36:07,701
Speaker 3: idea that grief is something that you move through and

720
00:36:07,822 --> 00:36:09,981
Speaker 3: you're going to see the other side of I don't think.

721
00:36:10,022 --> 00:36:11,741
Speaker 3: I think that's a myth. I think that you just

722
00:36:12,142 --> 00:36:15,982
Speaker 3: live with it. And I lost my nana when I

723
00:36:16,022 --> 00:36:18,382
Speaker 3: was about fifteen, and she lived with us and was

724
00:36:18,462 --> 00:36:21,181
Speaker 3: like another mother figure, and I still think it all

725
00:36:21,261 --> 00:36:24,381
Speaker 3: the time. I think I look at Luna and I go, oh,

726
00:36:24,542 --> 00:36:27,062
Speaker 3: Nan would have loved Luna, And I think that it

727
00:36:27,102 --> 00:36:29,622
Speaker 3: gets replaced with a type of joy. And I think

728
00:36:29,661 --> 00:36:33,862
Speaker 3: that there is something where you go, what a remarkable life.

729
00:36:34,142 --> 00:36:36,422
Speaker 3: If any of us could live that long and have

730
00:36:36,502 --> 00:36:40,261
Speaker 3: that richer life and have, you know, that strong relationship

731
00:36:40,261 --> 00:36:43,142
Speaker 3: with our grandchildren, then we did something right. But that

732
00:36:43,181 --> 00:36:45,902
Speaker 3: doesn't mean that it's not horrible waking up and just

733
00:36:45,982 --> 00:36:47,941
Speaker 3: knowing that they're not they're not there.

734
00:36:48,261 --> 00:36:51,421
Speaker 1: There's a grandfather's shaped hole in your heart that will

735
00:36:51,422 --> 00:36:55,142
Speaker 1: be there, and that's I guess a tribute to the

736
00:36:55,181 --> 00:36:58,462
Speaker 1: strength of the relationship, because you know, if you have

737
00:36:58,502 --> 00:37:01,382
Speaker 1: a grandparent that you're not close to and they pass away,

738
00:37:01,741 --> 00:37:06,382
Speaker 1: it doesn't affect you as much. But the amount of

739
00:37:06,422 --> 00:37:11,102
Speaker 1: love is equal to the amount of grief. Honey, sending

740
00:37:11,142 --> 00:37:11,861
Speaker 1: you love.

741
00:37:12,422 --> 00:37:14,302
Speaker 3: Are there any silver linings?

742
00:37:15,142 --> 00:37:20,341
Speaker 2: I've got some best I've got you. So after he

743
00:37:20,422 --> 00:37:22,221
Speaker 2: passed away, like I think it was a week after,

744
00:37:22,302 --> 00:37:24,942
Speaker 2: my parents had a holiday in Europe and my sister,

745
00:37:25,542 --> 00:37:28,822
Speaker 2: so they're in Europe right now, like living their best lives.

746
00:37:29,342 --> 00:37:31,982
Speaker 2: And I think I'm very close to my extended family

747
00:37:31,982 --> 00:37:34,741
Speaker 2: because my parents, their generation and their parents all move

748
00:37:34,822 --> 00:37:37,261
Speaker 2: together in like this big community. So I'm really close

749
00:37:37,302 --> 00:37:40,341
Speaker 2: with like my extended cousins and stuff like that, and

750
00:37:40,382 --> 00:37:43,022
Speaker 2: they all know that I'm like the only kid, quote

751
00:37:43,102 --> 00:37:45,462
Speaker 2: unquote kid in my generation who lives alone in a

752
00:37:45,582 --> 00:37:49,382
Speaker 2: single I have something on every single day with a

753
00:37:49,422 --> 00:37:52,902
Speaker 2: different family member. Like in aunt like hey, I'm getting

754
00:37:52,982 --> 00:37:55,021
Speaker 2: lunch today, can you please join me? I'm like yeah, sure.

755
00:37:55,342 --> 00:37:58,421
Speaker 2: And another family's like, hey, we do pizza every Friday night,

756
00:37:58,422 --> 00:38:00,542
Speaker 2: can you come? And they're like, hey, we know your

757
00:38:00,582 --> 00:38:01,982
Speaker 2: parents are here, so if you want to move in

758
00:38:02,142 --> 00:38:04,181
Speaker 2: just for like this little bit, like I'm a child,

759
00:38:04,261 --> 00:38:07,421
Speaker 2: and it's so fun and so good. And they knew

760
00:38:07,422 --> 00:38:09,422
Speaker 2: I was close to Papa, so they're probably like, oh,

761
00:38:09,582 --> 00:38:13,142
Speaker 2: she's probably not great not And it's just been so

762
00:38:13,781 --> 00:38:17,301
Speaker 2: nice to know that there's so many people there, and

763
00:38:17,342 --> 00:38:21,022
Speaker 2: I am so privileged to have my entire family in

764
00:38:21,062 --> 00:38:21,542
Speaker 2: this country.

765
00:38:21,542 --> 00:38:22,462
Speaker 1: I have a lot of cousins.

766
00:38:22,622 --> 00:38:23,861
Speaker 2: I think that's like forty of us.

767
00:38:23,902 --> 00:38:25,701
Speaker 1: There's something so special about cousins.

768
00:38:25,942 --> 00:38:28,022
Speaker 2: And we're all the same age as well. It's just fun.

769
00:38:28,342 --> 00:38:29,142
Speaker 2: It's a lot of fun.

770
00:38:29,462 --> 00:38:30,382
Speaker 3: Maya, what's your worst?

771
00:38:30,462 --> 00:38:33,781
Speaker 1: Well, my worst sounds really shallow because I just got

772
00:38:33,781 --> 00:38:36,741
Speaker 1: food poisoning. That's it didn't last very long, but I

773
00:38:36,741 --> 00:38:40,782
Speaker 1: felt sick. I'm very careful particularly when we're traveling, because

774
00:38:41,062 --> 00:38:43,462
Speaker 1: I remember one live show, Jesse, you had food poisoning

775
00:38:43,542 --> 00:38:46,582
Speaker 1: for in Melbourne. I had a soldier through that and

776
00:38:46,622 --> 00:38:50,422
Speaker 1: it was bad. And you are very loosey goosey with

777
00:38:50,462 --> 00:38:51,542
Speaker 1: what you eat on the road.

778
00:38:52,181 --> 00:38:55,902
Speaker 3: A little bit of cooked chicken that looks she's particularly

779
00:38:56,022 --> 00:38:57,741
Speaker 3: cheap to play with firelight to take those.

780
00:38:58,542 --> 00:39:01,661
Speaker 1: Whereas I'm a vegetarian anyway, and I'm extra careful. I

781
00:39:01,741 --> 00:39:04,422
Speaker 1: usually eat seafood, but I don't ever when i'm traveling anyway.

782
00:39:04,942 --> 00:39:07,022
Speaker 1: I was just at home, it was just before we

783
00:39:07,142 --> 00:39:12,622
Speaker 1: left for Perth, and I have these spinach fetter fillow pastries.

784
00:39:12,661 --> 00:39:14,421
Speaker 1: I have them for dinner. I reckon four nights a week.

785
00:39:14,462 --> 00:39:16,341
Speaker 1: I have them for dinner with peas and corn. It's

786
00:39:16,422 --> 00:39:20,421
Speaker 1: might just fall back. When I bought them, the woman said, oh,

787
00:39:20,582 --> 00:39:22,901
Speaker 1: make sure you eat them in the next twenty four

788
00:39:22,942 --> 00:39:26,022
Speaker 1: to forty eight hours the expiry date. I'm not sure

789
00:39:26,022 --> 00:39:28,022
Speaker 1: if it was that or I made a cake on

790
00:39:28,142 --> 00:39:30,142
Speaker 1: Friday and there was quite a lot of butter in

791
00:39:30,142 --> 00:39:31,582
Speaker 1: the icing, and then I didn't put it in the

792
00:39:31,582 --> 00:39:34,062
Speaker 1: fridge because I didn't like fridge cake. And then it

793
00:39:34,102 --> 00:39:37,502
Speaker 1: was three days later, and I wonder if the butter

794
00:39:37,622 --> 00:39:38,741
Speaker 1: from the icing might have done.

795
00:39:38,862 --> 00:39:40,582
Speaker 3: I made that cake and I ate that icing, and

796
00:39:40,622 --> 00:39:41,341
Speaker 3: I didn't get sick.

797
00:39:41,502 --> 00:39:42,861
Speaker 1: And it hasn't been in the fridge either.

798
00:39:42,982 --> 00:39:44,821
Speaker 3: Nah, nah, don't put it the fridge. Don't like fridge cake.

799
00:39:45,062 --> 00:39:45,221
Speaker 4: Oh.

800
00:39:45,261 --> 00:39:47,661
Speaker 1: It was just bad. It was bad anyway. It was

801
00:39:47,701 --> 00:39:49,382
Speaker 1: not the worst. It wasn't as bad as jesse In

802
00:39:49,622 --> 00:39:50,142
Speaker 1: when we were.

803
00:39:50,022 --> 00:39:52,221
Speaker 3: Away, but it was just are you cleared out now?

804
00:39:52,382 --> 00:39:52,542
Speaker 4: Yeah?

805
00:39:52,582 --> 00:39:55,102
Speaker 1: I'm good, Okay, cool, good to go. My best was

806
00:39:55,342 --> 00:39:58,781
Speaker 1: being on the road, being back traveling, being touring. We've

807
00:39:58,781 --> 00:40:01,022
Speaker 1: got a much bigger touring party than we did last year.

808
00:40:01,062 --> 00:40:04,701
Speaker 1: We've got em, We've got our whole crew, a lot

809
00:40:04,741 --> 00:40:07,502
Speaker 1: of them are new to the show. We've got some

810
00:40:07,542 --> 00:40:09,741
Speaker 1: special guests which you may or may not have heard of,

811
00:40:09,822 --> 00:40:13,142
Speaker 1: and it's just these are all people who are my friends,

812
00:40:13,221 --> 00:40:15,502
Speaker 1: and getting to be on tour with your mates is

813
00:40:15,661 --> 00:40:18,381
Speaker 1: just the funnest thing. And I've just loved it because

814
00:40:18,422 --> 00:40:20,422
Speaker 1: it's not just the actual being on stage, which is

815
00:40:20,582 --> 00:40:22,221
Speaker 1: so fun, but it's the.

816
00:40:22,502 --> 00:40:23,741
Speaker 3: It's a school camp of it all.

817
00:40:24,302 --> 00:40:27,062
Speaker 1: It's the flights, it's the airports, it's the wandering off

818
00:40:27,102 --> 00:40:29,741
Speaker 1: and getting lost and having someone you know how.

819
00:40:29,701 --> 00:40:31,462
Speaker 3: School camp is fun for the kids, but it's not

820
00:40:31,462 --> 00:40:34,261
Speaker 3: fun for the teachers. I think that's a bit like us,

821
00:40:35,181 --> 00:40:37,661
Speaker 3: and I think were the can for us, and it's

822
00:40:37,701 --> 00:40:40,502
Speaker 3: not fun for the eleven teachers we've hired to get us.

823
00:40:40,582 --> 00:40:42,142
Speaker 1: It's true, it's actually worked for them, and when we

824
00:40:42,221 --> 00:40:42,981
Speaker 1: keep wandering off.

825
00:40:43,142 --> 00:40:45,102
Speaker 2: We're doing them wine. They're fine, but it's been great.

826
00:40:45,261 --> 00:40:47,582
Speaker 1: I've just I've loved it, and we've got three more

827
00:40:47,582 --> 00:40:48,821
Speaker 1: shows to go. It's just fun.

828
00:40:49,102 --> 00:40:50,942
Speaker 3: I am going to start with my best because it

829
00:40:51,022 --> 00:40:54,302
Speaker 3: kind of proceeds my worst. So my best was Sunday,

830
00:40:54,422 --> 00:40:58,262
Speaker 3: Rainy Sunday, and I'm like, I'm gonna cook a bunch

831
00:40:58,422 --> 00:40:59,982
Speaker 3: for lunacause I was going to be away a few

832
00:41:00,062 --> 00:41:01,862
Speaker 3: nights this week. So then the gelt kicks in. I go,

833
00:41:02,062 --> 00:41:03,341
Speaker 3: I'm just going to be a chef and then I

834
00:41:03,342 --> 00:41:05,901
Speaker 3: won't feel any gelt and I can't cook. But now

835
00:41:05,902 --> 00:41:07,582
Speaker 3: I've got my staples for her, So I make her

836
00:41:07,622 --> 00:41:12,062
Speaker 3: these peanut butter like oat, very very healthy, very good money.

837
00:41:12,062 --> 00:41:12,622
Speaker 2: It brings them in.

838
00:41:12,822 --> 00:41:14,741
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're actually great. And then I make her a

839
00:41:14,822 --> 00:41:18,221
Speaker 3: spinach pancakes which she eats right, so just like health creeen,

840
00:41:19,221 --> 00:41:21,381
Speaker 3: And I was like I was making this. She's reading

841
00:41:21,382 --> 00:41:23,221
Speaker 3: a book on her own. I was playing Bob Dylan

842
00:41:23,261 --> 00:41:25,622
Speaker 3: because I watched a complete Unknown the movie. And so

843
00:41:25,661 --> 00:41:28,582
Speaker 3: I'm at Bop Dealer now and it's raining, and I'm

844
00:41:28,622 --> 00:41:30,981
Speaker 3: just like, I'm a trad wife. I just I'm leaving

845
00:41:30,982 --> 00:41:34,662
Speaker 3: the trad wife life like this is fabulous. I thought,

846
00:41:35,181 --> 00:41:37,661
Speaker 3: you know, we should be introducing new foods, and now

847
00:41:37,661 --> 00:41:39,661
Speaker 3: that I'm a trid wife, I might do some experimenting.

848
00:41:40,142 --> 00:41:42,181
Speaker 3: So I've got my Femi mix out and I do

849
00:41:42,261 --> 00:41:45,622
Speaker 3: some gurgling and I decide to make chive and sweet

850
00:41:45,661 --> 00:41:46,661
Speaker 3: corn pikeleots.

851
00:41:47,261 --> 00:41:48,661
Speaker 2: Right, Wow, sounds complicated.

852
00:41:48,781 --> 00:41:51,022
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know the recipe is always just like

853
00:41:51,462 --> 00:41:53,181
Speaker 3: even a fuzzy toddler bel eat this one.

854
00:41:53,382 --> 00:41:56,462
Speaker 1: Well, funny enough, I had introduced her to pikelots on

855
00:41:56,502 --> 00:41:59,861
Speaker 1: the weekend as well, except they had neither chibe nor

856
00:41:59,902 --> 00:42:03,221
Speaker 1: sweet corn in them. They were just highly processed from

857
00:42:03,221 --> 00:42:04,821
Speaker 1: the supermarket, and she liked them a lot.

858
00:42:04,862 --> 00:42:06,982
Speaker 2: Pikelets are good because you don't want to overcommit with

859
00:42:07,022 --> 00:42:07,741
Speaker 2: the pancakes.

860
00:42:07,902 --> 00:42:10,062
Speaker 3: No, no, no, it's just a little little pike and the

861
00:42:10,142 --> 00:42:12,301
Speaker 3: color looks like a normal pikelot. Yeah, it looks like

862
00:42:12,342 --> 00:42:15,221
Speaker 3: it's got anything so you can trick her. Yeah, So

863
00:42:15,261 --> 00:42:17,661
Speaker 3: I do the big mix. Takes a long time to

864
00:42:17,701 --> 00:42:19,262
Speaker 3: do a whole anyway, and then I do the whole

865
00:42:19,261 --> 00:42:22,022
Speaker 3: thing and she's just like mummy, and I'm like, Luna,

866
00:42:22,102 --> 00:42:24,582
Speaker 3: how great is life? How great is anyway? My worst?

867
00:42:25,102 --> 00:42:27,142
Speaker 3: So I make all of my pikeelots and they're just

868
00:42:27,142 --> 00:42:29,461
Speaker 3: sitting there and she's like, Mummy, I'm hungry, and I'm like, well,

869
00:42:29,622 --> 00:42:32,502
Speaker 3: here's something I preparred earlier. Here are my tibe and

870
00:42:32,542 --> 00:42:34,981
Speaker 3: sweet corn piplot served with cottage cheese.

871
00:42:35,062 --> 00:42:35,982
Speaker 1: What every toddler love?

872
00:42:36,102 --> 00:42:39,941
Speaker 3: Yes, gibes? And I give them to her cottage cheese.

873
00:42:39,942 --> 00:42:42,742
Speaker 1: Do you know there's a global shortage of cottage? Everybody

874
00:42:42,781 --> 00:42:45,622
Speaker 1: is Google. Everyone's chugging the protein, yes, all the teenage

875
00:42:45,661 --> 00:42:48,022
Speaker 1: boys and the middle aged ladies.

876
00:42:48,062 --> 00:42:54,062
Speaker 3: I give her her pipot with my smuggled all look ballerina. Yeah, yeah,

877
00:42:54,102 --> 00:42:55,861
Speaker 3: yeah exactly, and I'm like, come on, you're like this,

878
00:42:56,542 --> 00:43:00,422
Speaker 3: and she takes a bite, thinking it's your piplot and

879
00:43:00,462 --> 00:43:02,821
Speaker 3: I'm like I've won, and I turn my back and

880
00:43:02,822 --> 00:43:06,341
Speaker 3: then I just hear yeah, and I turn around and

881
00:43:06,982 --> 00:43:09,821
Speaker 3: someone at this table maya taught her when I had

882
00:43:09,822 --> 00:43:12,022
Speaker 3: food poisoning may have taught her to make a vomiting

883
00:43:12,062 --> 00:43:14,102
Speaker 3: sound because she was going mummy.

884
00:43:13,862 --> 00:43:17,821
Speaker 1: And I'm mummy Blair. So now often whenever she's with me,

885
00:43:17,942 --> 00:43:20,102
Speaker 1: she'll remember Jesse and she would just go mummy blah.

886
00:43:20,862 --> 00:43:23,342
Speaker 1: Mummy's not always vomiting. When she's not, she's just dagging

887
00:43:23,382 --> 00:43:23,622
Speaker 1: all over.

888
00:43:24,422 --> 00:43:28,741
Speaker 3: So she goes yucky, mum, h sick, blurt blur, and

889
00:43:28,741 --> 00:43:32,221
Speaker 3: she's doing a vomiting sound. She then throws the piplet

890
00:43:32,502 --> 00:43:35,542
Speaker 3: on the floor and goes in the bin in the bin,

891
00:43:35,942 --> 00:43:39,221
Speaker 3: and I was like, oh, my goodness, this sounds. This

892
00:43:39,261 --> 00:43:42,462
Speaker 3: does not happen on Ballerina, for no, they eat all

893
00:43:42,502 --> 00:43:44,622
Speaker 3: of the food. This is the reality of treadwife life.

894
00:43:45,302 --> 00:43:46,781
Speaker 3: Is your chive and your sweet corn ends up on

895
00:43:46,822 --> 00:43:48,941
Speaker 3: the floor. If she had vomited, I'd be like, oh,

896
00:43:48,942 --> 00:43:51,701
Speaker 3: that's awful. It was the fake of it.

897
00:43:51,582 --> 00:43:52,741
Speaker 1: It was like, this is so bad.

898
00:43:54,102 --> 00:43:56,941
Speaker 3: I don't think you're understanding. Mum, yuck, don't want it

899
00:43:57,062 --> 00:43:59,542
Speaker 3: in the bin, blah blah blah. Anyway, so I gave

900
00:43:59,582 --> 00:44:02,542
Speaker 3: them to cousin Matilda, and no more chive pancakes for Lena.

901
00:44:03,382 --> 00:44:06,622
Speaker 1: Oh dear out loud, as promised. We've got a little

902
00:44:06,661 --> 00:44:09,301
Speaker 1: treat for you to end today's show and get you

903
00:44:09,342 --> 00:44:13,301
Speaker 1: into the weekend. Holly is going to read you exclusively

904
00:44:13,382 --> 00:44:16,462
Speaker 1: a small excerpt from the start of her brand new book,

905
00:44:16,701 --> 00:44:17,262
Speaker 1: He Would.

906
00:44:17,142 --> 00:44:23,582
Speaker 5: Never, He Would Never, by Holly Wainwright, Prologue, Sunday Night,

907
00:44:23,741 --> 00:44:29,062
Speaker 5: eleven fifty five pm, Green River Beach. This would be

908
00:44:29,102 --> 00:44:32,422
Speaker 5: a fitting place for Lockey Short to die on the

909
00:44:32,542 --> 00:44:35,382
Speaker 5: edge of a splendid beach he hated with a passion.

910
00:44:36,102 --> 00:44:39,301
Speaker 5: If you believed in the afterlife, which Liz definitely did,

911
00:44:39,582 --> 00:44:43,222
Speaker 5: or ghosts, which Danny most definitely did not, then Lachlan

912
00:44:43,302 --> 00:44:46,422
Speaker 5: Short's troubled soul would be bound to walk this stretch

913
00:44:46,422 --> 00:44:49,942
Speaker 5: of river for eternity, bitching about the absence of decent

914
00:44:50,062 --> 00:44:53,422
Speaker 5: surf or a proper coffee, and picking tiny shards of

915
00:44:53,502 --> 00:44:56,102
Speaker 5: crushed lilac river shells out of the souls of his

916
00:44:56,181 --> 00:45:00,062
Speaker 5: calloused feet. Some would think it was entirely appropriate for

917
00:45:00,142 --> 00:45:02,262
Speaker 5: him to end his days in the place that most

918
00:45:02,302 --> 00:45:06,822
Speaker 5: made him doubt his marriage, his masculinity, his very life choices.

919
00:45:07,342 --> 00:45:11,182
Speaker 5: A campground, a hell for man who liked the finer things,

920
00:45:11,701 --> 00:45:14,782
Speaker 5: Beds that weren't in close proximity to the ground, food

921
00:45:14,822 --> 00:45:17,062
Speaker 5: that couldn't be cooked on a wandering stover in the

922
00:45:17,062 --> 00:45:20,542
Speaker 5: coals of a bandifying fire. Drinks not served with an

923
00:45:20,542 --> 00:45:24,982
Speaker 5: ice scooped from a sandy eski by a sunscreen smeared hand. No,

924
00:45:25,502 --> 00:45:28,301
Speaker 5: if Locky Short was to be doomed to camp for eternity,

925
00:45:28,701 --> 00:45:31,622
Speaker 5: he would find all way back to the light, because

926
00:45:31,661 --> 00:45:35,862
Speaker 5: actually he wasn't dead yet. He was lying on the

927
00:45:35,942 --> 00:45:40,622
Speaker 5: rainforest floor, somewhere between consciousness and unconsciousness, somewhere between the

928
00:45:40,661 --> 00:45:44,462
Speaker 5: campground and the sand. And someone would find him soon, surely,

929
00:45:44,982 --> 00:45:48,221
Speaker 5: Liss or Danny or Aidan or Tea. They must all

930
00:45:48,261 --> 00:45:52,622
Speaker 5: be frantic beside themselves. The strip of wilderness wasn't wide,

931
00:45:52,622 --> 00:45:55,742
Speaker 5: but it was dense and tricky, as all the Green

932
00:45:55,822 --> 00:45:59,142
Speaker 5: River camp regulars knew. At night, you could step away

933
00:45:59,181 --> 00:46:02,102
Speaker 5: to pee between the trees, and a thick, dark green

934
00:46:02,221 --> 00:46:05,261
Speaker 5: curtain would close in, leaving you banging into branches and

935
00:46:05,302 --> 00:46:09,462
Speaker 5: tripping over roots, embarrassed at your rising panic. The forest

936
00:46:09,661 --> 00:46:14,022
Speaker 5: vibrated with the low thrum of life, always hungry, inching forward,

937
00:46:14,382 --> 00:46:20,102
Speaker 5: maneuvering to reclaim its stolen space, marching insects and scuttling rodents,

938
00:46:20,142 --> 00:46:25,782
Speaker 5: advancing spiders and snakes and slugs and snails nibbling, sucking, sliming, gnawing,

939
00:46:26,261 --> 00:46:29,542
Speaker 5: the strangler vines always reaching. They'd have a thick, nobbled

940
00:46:29,622 --> 00:46:33,462
Speaker 5: tendril around Lockie's ankle. By morning. It was strange that

941
00:46:33,502 --> 00:46:36,382
Speaker 5: no one was calling his name. He was still breathing,

942
00:46:36,542 --> 00:46:40,582
Speaker 5: but not so you'd notice shallow Now. His loud Hawaiian

943
00:46:40,622 --> 00:46:43,622
Speaker 5: print shirt might just save him from this terrible misunderstanding.

944
00:46:44,062 --> 00:46:47,502
Speaker 5: Its hibiscus, bright yellow and pink, was still faintly glowing

945
00:46:47,862 --> 00:46:50,741
Speaker 5: even as the campground's lanterns and fairy lights flicked off

946
00:46:50,741 --> 00:46:53,942
Speaker 5: for the night, stealing the last glimmers of light. The

947
00:46:54,022 --> 00:46:57,782
Speaker 5: shirt had been ironic, which was now, of course, extremely ironic.

948
00:46:58,422 --> 00:47:00,781
Speaker 5: At the beach, only a few steps away, the river

949
00:47:00,942 --> 00:47:04,021
Speaker 5: was rising, lapping closer to the tree line. With every

950
00:47:04,062 --> 00:47:08,301
Speaker 5: sweep in, every pull out, the crabs, sandball scrawled masterpieces

951
00:47:08,342 --> 00:47:11,182
Speaker 5: were being washed away. The fish heading in from deeper

952
00:47:11,221 --> 00:47:13,822
Speaker 5: water to swirl around the anchors of the dormant boats.

953
00:47:14,502 --> 00:47:16,701
Speaker 5: Try to breathe with the waves. It won't be long,

954
00:47:16,902 --> 00:47:21,142
Speaker 5: can't be long. A crunch, finally, a footfall getting closer.

955
00:47:21,502 --> 00:47:26,341
Speaker 5: No talking, no chatter, no urgency. A phone light held low,

956
00:47:26,462 --> 00:47:29,421
Speaker 5: sweeping left to right, right to left, below the eye

957
00:47:29,502 --> 00:47:31,702
Speaker 5: line of campers on the other side of the tree curtain,

958
00:47:32,181 --> 00:47:34,901
Speaker 5: invisible to anyone hurrying to the toilet block in their

959
00:47:34,902 --> 00:47:39,422
Speaker 5: pajamas and thongs. Who was coming? His wife, his children.

960
00:47:39,822 --> 00:47:42,021
Speaker 5: They'd been on the makeshift dance floor with him only

961
00:47:42,102 --> 00:47:45,661
Speaker 5: hours before, bumping, jumping, shrugging to the beat, pounding through

962
00:47:45,661 --> 00:47:48,262
Speaker 5: the trees out to the sandy flats of the beach,

963
00:47:48,302 --> 00:47:51,261
Speaker 5: and tipping into the river. The girls had jiggled through

964
00:47:51,261 --> 00:47:54,942
Speaker 5: clouds of embarrassment, eyes averted, aware of the phones pointed

965
00:47:54,982 --> 00:47:57,582
Speaker 5: their way by the cooler kids. But his daughters would

966
00:47:57,622 --> 00:47:59,661
Speaker 5: still dance with him if he asked. They weren't too

967
00:47:59,701 --> 00:48:03,382
Speaker 5: old for that. Nor was Lyrah Martin that little idiot.

968
00:48:03,781 --> 00:48:06,102
Speaker 5: It was because of her, surely that Lockie was lying

969
00:48:06,142 --> 00:48:08,182
Speaker 5: in the roots of this giant fig on the forest

970
00:48:08,221 --> 00:48:11,622
Speaker 5: floor and not sinking into the double flocked inflatable mattress

971
00:48:11,622 --> 00:48:15,381
Speaker 5: inside his giant tent, beer snoring into Liss's tolerant ear

972
00:48:16,342 --> 00:48:19,661
Speaker 5: Lyra could have said something changed all of this. The

973
00:48:19,741 --> 00:48:25,582
Speaker 5: crunching closer, stopping lucky, there you are. Someone was bending

974
00:48:25,582 --> 00:48:29,261
Speaker 5: to him, feet in thongs by his flickering eyes, toenails

975
00:48:29,261 --> 00:48:32,822
Speaker 5: pink and shimmery in the phone's blonde light. Thank god,

976
00:48:32,942 --> 00:48:35,942
Speaker 5: we wondered how far you'd got a voice as familiar

977
00:48:35,982 --> 00:48:39,622
Speaker 5: as his own. Such a terrible mess. Yes, this would

978
00:48:39,622 --> 00:48:42,301
Speaker 5: be a fitting place for Lockey Short to die. If

979
00:48:42,302 --> 00:48:44,941
Speaker 5: you didn't like him, if you didn't trust him, if

980
00:48:44,982 --> 00:48:47,542
Speaker 5: you thought he'd spent a life tainting beautiful things with

981
00:48:47,582 --> 00:48:50,422
Speaker 5: his touch, if you thought he'd taken something from you,

982
00:48:50,781 --> 00:48:54,221
Speaker 5: knocked you off course, tormented a person you loved, if

983
00:48:54,261 --> 00:48:57,102
Speaker 5: you believed the lies spread about him tonight, last night,

984
00:48:57,181 --> 00:48:57,862
Speaker 5: all weekend.

985
00:48:58,261 --> 00:48:59,022
Speaker 1: Do you need help?

986
00:48:59,661 --> 00:49:02,422
Speaker 5: Such a question to a body in the woods, asked

987
00:49:02,422 --> 00:49:05,462
Speaker 5: in such a sweet tone, there could be no answer

988
00:49:05,542 --> 00:49:07,302
Speaker 5: from swollen, numb lips.

989
00:49:08,142 --> 00:49:08,662
Speaker 3: So yes.

990
00:49:08,902 --> 00:49:11,261
Speaker 5: There might be people who wished to damn Lucky to

991
00:49:11,302 --> 00:49:14,142
Speaker 5: eternal rest below this fig but they would be wrong.

992
00:49:14,582 --> 00:49:17,542
Speaker 5: That wasn't who he was, not what he deserved. And

993
00:49:17,582 --> 00:49:20,341
Speaker 5: there were people here, people only steps away from this

994
00:49:20,462 --> 00:49:23,542
Speaker 5: mossy fernie dump who knew that knew that he loved

995
00:49:23,542 --> 00:49:26,861
Speaker 5: his wife, loved his children, knew that every decision he

996
00:49:26,942 --> 00:49:29,861
Speaker 5: made was in the service of protecting them, even the

997
00:49:29,942 --> 00:49:33,622
Speaker 5: wrong ones. Hot breath mingled with the hot breeze so

998
00:49:33,781 --> 00:49:36,102
Speaker 5: close it would ruffle the hair above his ringing ear.

999
00:49:36,622 --> 00:49:41,622
Speaker 5: Good night, Lucky, the crunching retreating, this time an impossible

1000
00:49:41,701 --> 00:49:45,502
Speaker 5: act from a person so beloved. A roar was building

1001
00:49:45,542 --> 00:49:49,102
Speaker 5: inside him, a rush of furious indignation at having been

1002
00:49:49,181 --> 00:49:52,622
Speaker 5: so misunderstood, a heart fluttering terror at the idea his

1003
00:49:52,701 --> 00:49:54,982
Speaker 5: children might grow up thinking he was someone he was not.

1004
00:49:55,741 --> 00:49:58,301
Speaker 5: All of it charging at him now, the ritual of

1005
00:49:58,342 --> 00:50:02,062
Speaker 5: the camping trip. A friendship grown too close, a teenage

1006
00:50:02,102 --> 00:50:05,982
Speaker 5: girl too sure of herself, a marriage almost done, a

1007
00:50:06,022 --> 00:50:09,901
Speaker 5: secret unwrapped and scattered around the campsite like bait. And

1008
00:50:10,022 --> 00:50:16,462
Speaker 5: now the worst of it, humiliation, betrayal, abandonment. Liz, Danny

1009
00:50:17,062 --> 00:50:20,301
Speaker 5: Lucky Short would never stand for this. If Onny he

1010
00:50:20,422 --> 00:50:21,102
Speaker 5: could stand.

1011
00:50:22,462 --> 00:50:24,501
Speaker 3: That's all we have time for today. A big thank

1012
00:50:24,542 --> 00:50:27,102
Speaker 3: you for all of you, the out louders for listening

1013
00:50:27,382 --> 00:50:30,302
Speaker 3: to today's show. We will be back in your ears

1014
00:50:30,502 --> 00:50:32,341
Speaker 3: next week. Em and Maya do you want to read

1015
00:50:32,342 --> 00:50:32,902
Speaker 3: the credits?

1016
00:50:33,102 --> 00:50:36,422
Speaker 1: I do. Thank you to our team of school teachers

1017
00:50:36,781 --> 00:50:39,462
Speaker 1: who need big sticks when we're on the road on

1018
00:50:39,502 --> 00:50:43,221
Speaker 1: our Girls Trip Group Executive producer Roof de Vine, executive

1019
00:50:43,221 --> 00:50:45,181
Speaker 1: producer Emmeline Gazillis.

1020
00:50:44,982 --> 00:50:48,461
Speaker 2: And our audio producer Leah Porgees, our video producer Josh Green,

1021
00:50:48,622 --> 00:50:52,062
Speaker 2: and our junior content producers Coco and Tessa.

1022
00:50:52,142 --> 00:50:53,982
Speaker 1: Bye bye bye.

1023
00:50:54,701 --> 00:50:57,622
Speaker 3: Shout out to any Mum and MEA subscribers listening. If

1024
00:50:57,661 --> 00:50:59,622
Speaker 3: you love the show and you want to support us,

1025
00:50:59,862 --> 00:51:02,662
Speaker 3: subscribing to mom and Mia is the very best way

1026
00:51:02,701 --> 00:51:05,262
Speaker 3: to do so. There's a link in the episode description.

1027
00:51:09,862 --> 00:51:12,421
Speaker 4: The ten cook buck Bank took back book