WEBVTT - Liane Moriarty Was Terrified To Write A Big Little Lies Sequel. She Did It Anyway. 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.320 I still can't believe I had the audacity to say 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:07.040 I've written this role for Eryl, and then getting that 0:00:07.080 --> 0:00:12.160 text that said, we've got you, Meryl, you're a bit witchy. Well, 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:14.720 we'll see if we can get Timothy Shallimey for my daughter. 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:20.880 Hello. I'm Katelinebrook, host of No Filter. Today's guest is 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:23.439 someone many of you will already feel like you know, 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:27.640 even if you've never met her, because she's spent decades 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:33.279 writing your inner life back to you. Leanne Moriarty. Leanne 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:36.800 is the author behind Big Little Lies, Nine Perfect Strangers, 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:41.519 Apples Never Fall, and now Big Little Truths, her first 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:45.520 ever sequel, returning to the world and characters that made 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:49.320 her a household name. Leanne and I go a fair 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:52.559 way back, and in this conversation we get into everything 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:56.040 how she actually writes a book, the terror of returning 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:59.520 to characters people already love and know what it was 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:03.080 like watch Nicole Kidman, Reese Witherspoon, and Meryl Streep step 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:07.399 into roles she wrote in her head first, and the strange, 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:12.399 very specific pressure of writing a sequel everyone has been 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:16.959 demanding for years. We also talk about family. Leanne is 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:20.679 one of three sisters who all became authors, her own 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:27.119 breast cancer, scare, marriage, motherhood, teenagers, turning sixty and why 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:31.959 after everything, she still can't stop herself imagining what the 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:36.200 critics might say before she's even finished a page. It's 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:40.000 funny and candid and full of the kind of detail 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:44.440 only Leanne Moriarty could give you. This is Leanne Moriarty 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:50.920 on No Filter. Leanne Moriarty, Welcome to No Filter. Thank you, Kate. 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:54.400 Now you just made me laughing for what we were 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:57.440 talking about previous podcasts that I've done with another writer, 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:01.800 and you said, I don't want to say anything interating, 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:07.400 you don't want to reveal anything about yourself. 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:09.800 I just don't want to wake up in the middle 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:14.079 of the night with that feeling sick, as if as 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:17.639 if I'd got drunk at a dinner party too much. 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:22.000 And because I do, I want to chat with you. 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:23.520 But then in the middle of the night, I think, 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:27.239 why would you think that people would even care about that? 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:33.399 But people do because you have been instrumental in creating 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:39.320 so many worlds for people that are so richly inhabited 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:44.960 that it's natural for people to want to know where 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:46.240 it comes from. 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:49.440 Yes, I know, and I know that. Actually, I was 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:53.600 telling somebody the story yesterday of one of my favorite 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:58.320 authors is Elizabeth bergh Right, and she's an American author. 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:01.720 And I was once picked up at the airport. They 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:05.799 have these people in America who escort you around when 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:10.799 you're on book tour. There always, and they always want 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:12.760 to take you to lunch because then they can put 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:15.880 that on their expenses. Yes, and you don't want to 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:18.880 go to lunch because you're feeling nervous about the event 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:20.040 that you want to go to. 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:21.320 Anyway, this man he. 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:26.480 Picked me up and he mentioned his partner was Elizabeth Burke, 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:30.600 and I was so excited. And then I said, I 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:33.720 love her. And then he said, well, we can go 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:36.960 and pick her up right now. And then I said, 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:38.800 this is a part I can't believe that. I said, 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:42.520 I said, do you think I could see her kitchen? 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:45.520 I don't know, And I'm not the sort of person 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:47.880 who would say that, but it's because she writes so 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:52.800 beautifully about domestic life, and I had a vision in 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:58.200 my head of what her kitchen would look like. And 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:02.640 he said, no, you can't. I think he said it 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:07.480 was very nice. And then yet then anyway, then there 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:11.280 was this thing with me wanting to put her in 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:14.920 the front seat because she she so you stopped, did 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:15.240 get her? 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:18.559 Did he call her? Did you hear the call? Yes? 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:20.840 And she was saying sure, and then and then I 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:24.120 was saying, well, I'll get out because she's got to 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:26.400 sit in the front, and he was saying no, no, 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:30.000 you stay in the front. And then we stopped. And 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:33.120 I was so determined that she would get in the 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:35.159 front that I threw myself out of the car. 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:38.280 Uh. But we weren't there yet. We just stopped at. 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:44.400 Her, just get back in, and I stayed in the 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:48.719 front seat. But so I do understand, I I yeah, 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:51.160 I wanted to see Elizabeth Berg's kitchen. 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:54.719 All right, So Leanne moriarty, we want to see your kitchen. 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:59.880 About that, to see your bathroom, We want to see 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:07.119 your bedroom. You know a lot about the bedroom because 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:10.520 it's not enough sex. Well books, Okay, so because these 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:13.640 open door and closed door, which is a very interesting 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:18.120 thing I've only recently learned about publishing. What do you mean, Well, 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:22.159 so in a sex scene, Oh, okay, that either it's 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:27.080 open door, which is where you basically see everything, you're 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:30.240 treated to everything that's going on, or it's closed door, 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:32.719 they kiss, then they wake up the next morning and 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:36.640 the curtains. Yes, I have never heard that before. Yes, 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:40.640 someone closed door, you're very closed door. Well, but you 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:43.040 give a lot of hints about what's happened. 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:46.080 Well, I remember in hre one moment I said something 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:51.320 about them having astonishing sex, and then a reviewer said 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:54.800 that it's described as astonishing sex, but you never see that. Yeah, 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:57.200 And I thought, well, I feel like everybody can have 0:05:57.240 --> 0:06:00.320 their own version of astonishing. 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:03.440 And I couldn't do it. I could not do it. Okay, well, 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:09.680 look what I have here. This was such a thrill. 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:15.120 This is Big Little Truths. There's another book you might 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:18.520 have heard of it called Big Little Lies, right, and 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:21.920 this came this is a sequel to that, So your 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:27.760 first sequel. It came in brilliant, like brilliant, the most 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:32.359 brilliant packaging, with the little zipper that you aren't to dover, 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:39.000 and then you're one rappish and to take people back 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:42.320 into a world that you've created. But that means a 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:48.760 lot to people is fraught with I imagine all sorts 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:54.040 of terrorists, which is probably why I've never done it before. 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:56.400 And why did you do it? 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:03.640 I did it because everybody was asking about I have 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:07.360 to admit it was in a large part because people 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:10.720 were asking about a new season of Big Little Lives. 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:13.640 And so if they were going to do it anyway 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:15.840 without me, then I'd rather they did it. 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:19.200 Oh, they couldn't do it without you. Oh they could, 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:20.520 could they? Yeah? 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:25.760 They were allowed to for sure, so they could. And 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:28.520 then I had also thought because Big Little Lies was 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:33.920 I wrote it when my children were little, starting school, 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:37.040 And then I had started to think over the years 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:42.000 that because I had my children quite late in life, 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:45.200 so my girlfriends are all a little bit ahead of me, 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:48.000 and I was thinking that when the teenage years come, 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:51.240 it feels like there could be a lot of material 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:54.680 for me, which there is. 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:57.960 Which there is. Yeah, but I say it's fraught with 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:01.840 terrors because all of us, I think, have been scarred 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:06.880 by and just like that, Oh okay, but you know 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:08.760 what I mean. But I liked and just like that, 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:13.640 is it? Well? Good, I'm happy for you. I'm very 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:15.920 happy for you. I was just happy to see them again. 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:21.200 They too, friends, But sometimes you were like, oh I 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:24.840 know they were friends, Oh no, friends, Like I know, 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:27.840 there were things, but it was almost I didn't care 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:31.000 because I was just so happy to see them. 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:34.120 But yes, it's fraught. I'm glad you didn't say that 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:36.120 to me before I started writing. 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:39.319 A little Well, no, because but no one puts more 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:41.679 pressure on you than you put on I know, I know. 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:46.400 And when something's been so deeply and irrevocably loved and 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:50.360 around the world and it's drawn the attention of you know, 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:55.040 Reese Witherspoon and Nicole Kidman and they're actually publicly lobbying 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:59.680 for you to write the sequel, yes, that's an enormous 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:00.480 amount of pressure. 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:05.920 And what's really for is that people are seeing they're 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:10.160 seeing Reese Witherspoon in their mind's eye, or some people are. 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:14.400 And I'm so when I was writing it, I could 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:17.840 see my version of Madeline, and I could see Reese's 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:21.400 version of Madeline. And I know even my editor at 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:25.880 one point she was writing a blurb and she wrote 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:34.080 Madeleine Madeline Celeste and then she said something about Zoe and. 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:41.240 I said, you you were so clearly seeing Zoe in 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:46.400 your mind's eye, Zoe kraviatz In when you were reading it. 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:52.160 Because now it's it's such a balancing feast because you're 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:59.680 balancing the characters as they originally were. You're holding them. 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:05.280 We also now know from the dramatization of it, we do. 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:07.520 We know Rees with a spoon, and we know Nicole, 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:12.000 we know Zowe. Yes, yeah, how did you separate them? 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:16.439 So I, in your you write a really lovely prologue 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:21.600 where you explain, which is brilliant, that what you have 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:23.720 written is the sequel to the book. 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:27.160 It has to follow on from the book. But sometimes 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:31.359 that was tricky. So for example, even I had forgotten 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:35.719 that Madeline had another child called Fred. Right, so I 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:38.200 was an older and in. 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:41.800 America, and I'll just send you off to America. Well, 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:43.560 for a while, I was thinking, I just put him 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:46.280 in his bedroom, right, I was thinking I could even 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:48.800 be quite metter and have somebody saying it's like Fred 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:52.160 doesn't even exist because he's playing. 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:55.960 Video games all day. And there were a lot of 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:59.360 little things like that. So, for example, the character of 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:05.719 merryl I didn't see the character of Mary Louise who 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:09.240 because she was not in the first book and I 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:13.880 created her. So when I was writing Mary Louise, I 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:19.640 was completely seeing Meryl Stretreet. But also I had thought 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:24.120 I didn't name Perry's mother in the first book, so 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:27.880 I was safe to call her Mary Louise, who I 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:31.400 had named myself anyway for season two, so I felt 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:36.680 I owned her. But then I suddenly found that I 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:41.280 had actually named I had said Perry's mother was a twin, 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:45.880 so there was actually she could have been Gene or 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:48.160 something else. So then I had to write a little 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:53.360 strange explanation for why she's now Mary Lais, and it 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:56.559 sort of worked. But I remember my editor writing, oh, 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:57.720 this is fun, but do. 0:11:57.600 --> 0:11:58.080 We need it? 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:02.239 And we do need it. And because readers are amazing, 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:05.559 readers will find will find things. 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:09.319 Yes, yes, and then I love it because. 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:14.000 They say to you, but why why is this? And 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:17.719 and they're not they're not complaining. They really want to know, 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:24.440 tell me as if it's real, and so I don't 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:27.719 want If you find something that's not quite right, then 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:31.680 you can no longer suspend disbelief because now you realize 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:35.720 somebody just wrote this, so you can't ye, so everything 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:39.160 has That's why when readers say, well, these flowers don't 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:41.439 grow at this time of year, and say, I know 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:44.520 my mother told me that. They were saying, but why 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:48.679 as if I need to give an explanation. 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:52.280 They're flowers? That did you with flowers here? What were 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:55.839 the flowers? I'm sweet peas, I think, yeah, And then 0:12:57.000 --> 0:13:00.400 I really need to read your books because that she 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:04.880 would pick up for And so when you so, when 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:09.200 was was there a moment where you decided to enter 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:11.120 back into the into the world. 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:14.959 Yes, there was a moment because I had actually started 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:22.559 writing another book with a storyline that's significant in this book. 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:26.400 So oh so we agreed it's okay for spoilers. So yeah, yeah, 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:29.200 it's okay for spoiler. So there is the history teacher 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:33.480 in this book, and I had I had that concept 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:38.880 because I was sort of obsessed by a high profile 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:44.679 story in the papers, and so I wanted to explore 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:53.480 the motivations of sort of a villain. And I won't 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:58.760 say what the story is, but creditory predatory villain. 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:00.640 Yes, I think it's good not to say, because I 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:04.839 was remember Matt Damon and Ben Affleck getting into a 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:07.640 lot of trouble when they did that movie. Oh and 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:08.959 they were inspired by. 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:13.920 Goodwill Hunting No No No, by Amanda Knox. Oh sorry, 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:18.480 it wasn't Ben, it was just Matt. Okay, and she 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:21.560 was really offended. But and I sort of thought, oh, 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:24.200 I can understand though. For them, it's just an interesting 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:29.800 news story and that gives you a fictional idea at 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:33.600 a launching place, Yes, exactly. And so I could have 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:36.080 said that about some other things where I thought, Okay, 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:38.920 I'm not never going to say that because it's people's 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:42.360 real lives, whereas I've just read about it, and. 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:48.120 They were, oh, heal, yes and fascinating. You can explore terrain, yes, 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:53.240 if it's not necessarily cemented into the grim reality of 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:53.720 the earth. 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:58.160 Exactly exactly right. So I had this idea, and I 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:01.400 had started. I think I'd written about two chapters set 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:05.000 in a high school, and then there was all the 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:07.960 talk of really, we really do want to season three, 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:11.320 and then I suddenly thought, well, I had always said 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:14.640 I could write about the kids when they were teenagers. 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:20.240 I could make this storyline happen to some of my 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:21.280 bigger class. 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:25.040 And how had they lived with you? The characters in 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:29.360 that time, like we was Celested always with you, it 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:30.720 was Madeline always with. 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:34.400 You, except I was writing new books. I let them go. 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:40.040 So I was filled with joy from Apple's Never Fall, 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:45.040 and then all my characters from here one moment so yes, 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:47.880 So no, I don't think, no, they weren't. Really they 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:51.360 were because all my characters then I put them, I 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:54.080 put them away, and I might sometimes think, oh, I 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:57.440 wonder what happened to so and so. But especially when 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:01.840 I'm writing a new book, I'm completely absorbed with the new. 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:06.360 People because it almost feels like there should be a 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:12.440 some sort of formal ceremony. But don't you think to 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:15.280 bid them say goodbye? Yes? 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:18.080 Well, I always say when I'm writing a new book, 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:21.640 I miss my old characters because they've become so easy 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:24.920 to write by the time that I finish it. And 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:27.240 so I don't like my new characters because I'm getting 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:30.600 to know them and I don't ask how they talk yet. 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:35.440 But yes, that's true, there could be a little ceremony. 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:37.480 But to be honest, by the time I finished writing 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:39.240 a book, I sort of hate the whole thing. I 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:43.120 can't bear to see another word. 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:47.880 And yet you continue to challenge yourself. 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:53.280 This was Yes, this was a real challenge with them 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:57.080 because what I realized was that they by doing this. 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:01.800 So I had my high school storyline, but then I 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:07.800 had all my characters had these really complicated backstories that 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:11.240 I had created for Big Little Lies, So I felt 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:15.200 like they were all dragging these backstories along with them 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:18.640 that and I wanted the sequel to stand on its own, 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:21.200 because I think that's really important. If it's been ages 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:22.760 since you've read them. 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:24.760 You actually say that in the book that if you 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:27.879 haven't read Big Little Lie, yes, it doesn't matter. It 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:30.600 doesn't matter. If you've read it and you can't remember it, it. 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:33.720 Doesn't okay too, But that was hard to do that 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:37.239 because you want to sort of refer to things that 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:41.800 had happened in their lives without and in a natural way, 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:47.680 not begin with and sons who push somebody off a balcony. 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:53.840 Yes it has her friend they share. You know, it's 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:57.600 almost to be embarrassing because the storylines sound a bit 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:03.280 soap oprouche. Yes exactly, but it's like if it's like 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:06.719 you're dating someone new again. And I always think one 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:08.680 of the most terrible things about that is having to. 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:13.320 Explain yourself, yes, and all the relationships and whatever the 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:14.680 means and what happens. 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:18.000 Yes, yes, that's true, and so yeah, that's right. People 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:22.320 could have just as complicated backstories. But although this is 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:23.080 pretty rare that. 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:31.240 Yes, yes, that's because it's fiction, a murder, and then 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:34.879 that there's a severed finger in a box in a 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:36.840 new school, which is also not a spoiler because it 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:39.800 happens at the very start and it's exactly sort of 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:43.080 the premise of the yes of the book. And so 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:51.680 when you start to recreate that world and then move 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:55.880 the story forward, what does that process look like for you? 0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:01.000 Is it a are you sitting down with character notes? 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:01.760 Is it? 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:03.680 Is it more plot driven? 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:10.440 It's nah, it's neither. Really, I am I always Well, 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:13.360 my normal process with the new book is to buy 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:20.280 a really beautiful notebook, a hardcover moll skin. Yes, yes, 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:23.679 it's just got to be expensive. And then I like 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:25.399 to start to write a few notes. So I did 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:27.960 post on Instagram some of the I found some of 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:30.960 the old notes when I was starting to write big 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:35.920 little lies, and I wrote I did write the word 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:42.440 licee whares. And then somebody put in the comments, Okay, 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:49.639 I thank you. Yes, I know it's not nice. So 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:52.840 normally yeah, I do, but but I never then do 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:58.439 the whole plan. So my sister Jackie, because she's an 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:02.680 author two and her pres exactly yes, and her process, 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:06.040 and she has an amazing book I'm called time Travel 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:10.640 for Beginners, which everybody is going to adore because I 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:14.320 love time travel, and I guess she has to because 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:17.240 and that's why I've never written a time travel book, 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:22.359 because of the logistics of it. Right, So she plans everything, 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:25.600 and I always think, maybe I'll start to I'll do 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:28.119 a proper plan, but I can't stand it. So I 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:30.720 write a few little notes maybe this will happen, maybe this, 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:34.760 maybe that, and then I just have to start writing. 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:38.439 So I just have to say chapter one as if 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:41.880 it's from the beginning and you write chronologically. I do, 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:44.480 but I always want to make it clear that it's 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:46.720 not like some of those authors who say it all 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:51.280 just comes into their head perfectly sounding a little bit, 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:55.880 but it doesn't because I'm working it out as I go. Ah, 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:59.159 so your problem solving. Yes, yes, that's right. And so 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:02.200 I always have this separate document called things I need 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:06.320 to fix because as I'm working out. As a result 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:09.359 of this decision, now I'm going to have to go 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:10.600 back and change. 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:17.760 Is exactly. So you mentioned your sister Jacqueline, and you've 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:21.439 also got Nikolay is also an author. She is, yes, 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:24.199 and there are four girls in your family. And two boys. 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:26.360 No, five, five girls, one boy. 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:30.720 Three of the five of you are authors. Yes, yes, 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:36.400 it's just let's just work out how that happened. 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:40.000 But I think it's well, you know, it's like the 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:47.280 tennis players and like yes, families. And I also think 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:50.920 whenever anybody writes a book, there's sort of a ripple 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:54.560 effect because then people think, oh, actually you can do that, 0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:58.520 it's real. And so Jackie started the ripple effect because 0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:04.280 they're not filled with envy and so and then it 0:22:04.320 --> 0:22:06.120 seems like something you could do. 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:08.960 And so your first book that you wrote was a 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:14.119 children's book. Oh I tried, Yes, that that was probably. 0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:19.159 Yes, the the Animal Olympics. It was right, and still 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:22.080 has not been has been published. And have you looked 0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:22.440 at it? 0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:25.600 No, I don't even know where do you think it 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:30.679 should should have been published? I thought, I don't know. 0:22:30.720 --> 0:22:31.560 I thought it was fun. 0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:34.320 So it was around the year two thousand, so it 0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:37.320 was sort of it was before the year two thousand 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:40.719 because I was inspired by the Sydney Olympics, and I 0:22:40.760 --> 0:22:44.480 was interested in all the animals that would would win 0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:48.760 the Olympics. So for example, the flea would win the 0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:50.520 high jump and things like that. 0:22:50.560 --> 0:22:59.400 Not the life, not the nice. Yeah, I'll be back 0:22:59.440 --> 0:23:07.359 with Leon after this short break. When your younger sister 0:23:08.240 --> 0:23:13.280 got her the first publishing deal and you said it 0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:17.359 unlocked in you this envy, what life were you living 0:23:18.119 --> 0:23:19.920 prior to that point? 0:23:20.480 --> 0:23:26.800 I was an advertising copywriter, so I was working for myself, 0:23:29.000 --> 0:23:32.160 and I had over the years written a few first 0:23:32.280 --> 0:23:36.560 chapters of books that hadn't gone anywhere. And I had 0:23:36.640 --> 0:23:41.600 also written a children's book for my younger sister, Nicola, 0:23:41.760 --> 0:23:45.439 for her tenth birthday when I was so she's fifteen 0:23:45.520 --> 0:23:48.359 years younger than me, so I was twenty five, and 0:23:48.400 --> 0:23:51.240 so that was the only thing I'd actually finished because 0:23:51.240 --> 0:23:53.800 it was a gift for her. And so that did 0:23:53.840 --> 0:23:59.639 get published eventually. So that was called the Petrophone problem 0:24:00.119 --> 0:24:04.719 with Princess Petronella. So that's the only thing I finished. 0:24:05.960 --> 0:24:09.600 And so yes, it wasn't until Jackie did it. And 0:24:09.640 --> 0:24:12.080 we'd always said when we were little that we wanted 0:24:12.080 --> 0:24:13.560 to write books. 0:24:13.640 --> 0:24:18.000 And your father had encouraged you by you a dollar. Yes, 0:24:18.280 --> 0:24:21.400 he said, I'll give you your first publishing deals, right, 0:24:22.200 --> 0:24:25.440 and he did. And who was the most prolific thing 0:24:25.880 --> 0:24:29.800 when you were incentivized with a dollar Finnish manuscript. 0:24:30.400 --> 0:24:35.320 I don't know, actually, I mean it was only for 0:24:35.359 --> 0:24:39.200 a short It definitely happened. It sort of became part 0:24:39.280 --> 0:24:42.679 of our origin story as if he did it for 0:24:42.800 --> 0:24:46.520 years and years. I think we probably only just both 0:24:46.560 --> 0:24:49.800 of us wrote a couple of stories and then we 0:24:50.600 --> 0:24:54.080 moved on with our lives. And I've definitely still got 0:24:54.160 --> 0:24:57.800 volume two of the Secret of dead Man's Island? 0:25:00.520 --> 0:25:02.639 What was it? The secret? 0:25:02.640 --> 0:25:05.560 That was because it was really inspired by Anna Blaton. 0:25:06.359 --> 0:25:09.480 A lot of smuggling, and I didn't really know what smuggling. 0:25:09.480 --> 0:25:13.639 Smugglers and they were always on the coast of corn Water, yes. 0:25:14.160 --> 0:25:17.720 Which I've been to now week to Cornwall. Because I 0:25:17.760 --> 0:25:22.400 was so obsessed with with Enna Blaton. The children found 0:25:22.440 --> 0:25:24.800 it the most boring holiday they've ever had. 0:25:26.560 --> 0:25:30.520 What what was it that spoke to you about Enid Blyton? 0:25:31.520 --> 0:25:32.040 I think? 0:25:32.240 --> 0:25:35.520 But why children always loved Anna Blaton was because she 0:25:35.560 --> 0:25:37.760 always had the adults out of the way and then 0:25:37.800 --> 0:25:41.600 they had these amazing adventures. 0:25:41.040 --> 0:25:48.680 The fantastic the famous Five Secret seven, and also because 0:25:48.680 --> 0:25:52.760 she was such a beautiful writer in terms of evoking 0:25:55.080 --> 0:25:57.480