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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded.

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Speaker 3: On micro trend. Final Boss is basically like asking someone

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Speaker 3: who is the biggest fashion victim? Who is someone who

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Speaker 3: falls for every little trend? And it's not something you'd

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Speaker 3: be see Stoke.

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Speaker 2: It's me. I was gonna say, it's Mia and her

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Speaker 2: shoe jewelry.

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Speaker 3: What I was going to say is that there's only

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Speaker 3: one person in Australia who wouldn't have an issue with

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Speaker 3: that title, and it's Maya Friedman.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Mamma Mia. Out Loud. It's what

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Speaker 2: women are actually talking about on Monday, the nineteenth of May.

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Speaker 1: I am Holly Waynwright, I'm Maya Friedman.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Jesse Stevens. And did you know we did

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Speaker 3: a live show on Saturday night in Sydney And did

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Speaker 3: you know that out louders flew in from Singapore. They

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Speaker 3: flew in from another country to come and see our extravaganza.

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Speaker 3: And we have not received a complaint yet from.

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Speaker 2: Them, and from New Zealand, from Tasmania and from all

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Speaker 2: over Australia. And my goodness, We had a good time,

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Speaker 2: but this Thursday night it is Melbourne's Turney you excited me.

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Speaker 1: I'm super excited. Before we start the show, though, a

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Speaker 1: special shout out to the out louder who had a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a tumble. She'd have a tumble in Sydney.

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Speaker 1: And luckily you probably don't know this, but my dear

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Speaker 1: friend Justine, who the character of Lucy is modeled on

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Speaker 1: in strife, she's a doctor and she was there with

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Speaker 1: her husband who's also a doctor, and their son, who

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Speaker 1: is a med student, and they all came to the rescue.

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Speaker 3: They did, And I think that there's a rumor going

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Speaker 3: around that she did ignore medical advice and she stayed

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Speaker 3: for it too. And that's how out louders play it,

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Speaker 3: that's how they live.

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Speaker 2: Not that we advise such things. Please follow the advice

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Speaker 2: of your doctor while enjoying out loud. But anyway, on

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Speaker 2: the show today, the podcast that started a storm about

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Speaker 2: the energy a woman's job brings into the house. Also,

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Speaker 2: while Australian Fashion Week brought the off catwalk drama and

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Speaker 2: this week Taylor Swift got served a subpoena and lost

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Speaker 2: a friend, Mia explains the latest seemingly fatal blow in

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Speaker 2: the Blake Taylor Baldoni mess.

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Speaker 1: But first, in case you missed it, the Sussexes Harry

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Speaker 1: and Meghan had the junior Beckham's Nicola and Brooklyn over

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Speaker 1: for dinner. The dinner was held last weekend or the

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Speaker 1: weekend before, timing slightly unclear, at the Sussex's Montecito residence

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Speaker 1: and was described as an intimate gathering, though it included

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Speaker 1: around twenty to twenty five guests, including many VIPs and

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Speaker 1: film executives. Brooklyn and Nicola were not apparently directly invited

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Speaker 1: by Harry and Meghan. Someone wanted to clarify to the media,

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Speaker 1: probably Harry and Meghan, but they were brought along through

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Speaker 1: mutual acquaintances, which is surely further proof that their version

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Speaker 1: of intimate when you're a celebrity is different to ours.

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Speaker 1: In other news, that could be a coincidence, Princess Kate

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Speaker 1: wore a Victoria Beckham suit to a pup engagement last week. Holly,

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Speaker 1: can you please translate for us what all this means?

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Speaker 2: Well, the reason that we're excited about this and trying

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Speaker 2: to decode it is obviously we talked about this recently

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Speaker 2: but Brooklyn Beckham appears to have been cast out of

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Speaker 2: the Beckhams a little bit. And who would have more

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Speaker 2: wisdom to impart on how to deal with an estrangement

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Speaker 2: from your high profile family than Prince Harry. So it

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Speaker 2: does seem to have been some kind of a summit.

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Speaker 2: But this is delicious and also, Meir, I love that

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Speaker 2: you brought that because it is a little bit of

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Speaker 2: a fashion this. David Beckham is a well known monarchist.

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Speaker 2: He queued up to see the Queen lying in state.

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Speaker 2: They were at both royal weddings. They were at Wills

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Speaker 2: and Kate's wedding and Harry and Meghan's wedding. He is

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Speaker 2: a big king guy, David. So it's interesting that Princess

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Speaker 2: Kate chose to wear a Victorian suit, or at least

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Speaker 2: we're all obsessed with this. But one of my favorite

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Speaker 2: details from this whole thing is, as you say, me

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Speaker 2: at the dinner was supposedly intimate and blah blah, and

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Speaker 2: who the source that told People magazine about it. There's

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Speaker 2: a clue here where the last line of that story said,

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Speaker 2: according to the source, Brooklyn and Nikola had a wonderful

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Speaker 2: time and found Harry and Meghan to be particularly kind, caring,

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Speaker 2: and generous. I think maybe that comes from within the

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Speaker 2: House of Sussex.

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Speaker 1: Follow the break cram.

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Speaker 3: Can I just say that I reckon Hidden within this

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Speaker 3: story is a profound life hack, which is you never

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Speaker 3: want to position yourself as good at having guests over.

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Speaker 3: I think the three of us have really lowered people's

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Speaker 3: expectations when it comes to coming to our home. But

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Speaker 3: when you have a Netflix series about making little moments

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Speaker 3: next to the beds of guests and putting your dried

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Speaker 3: flower pedals on things, and you cook special cakes and

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Speaker 3: you make special cocktails, the expectations are too high. I

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Speaker 3: would be having a panic attack if I was Meghan

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Speaker 3: and I had guests coming over.

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Speaker 2: It's true, how much I think your fancy depends on

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Speaker 2: whether I've peeled the four all the way off the

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Speaker 2: homeless so whether I'm leaving it on just to push

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Speaker 2: back when you've got it.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, in case you missed it, there is a way

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Speaker 3: to gently stop someone who talks way too much. An

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Speaker 3: article in The Washington Post explains that there are lots

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Speaker 3: of reasons that a person might talk too much. Alison

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Speaker 3: woodbrooks she is an associate professor at Harvard Business School.

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Speaker 3: She was interviewed in this article, and she said that

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Speaker 3: self disclosure can feel as good as chocolate or having sex.

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Speaker 3: So it is addictive to just talk about yourselves. We

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Speaker 3: all know that can feel good. Sometimes we do it

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Speaker 3: five times a week. Over talking can also be rewarded socially,

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Speaker 3: and in extreme cases, over talking might be caused by

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Speaker 3: conditions like ADHD, autism, bipolar, or social anxiety. So how

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Speaker 3: might we stop it? Some people might be wondering, Well, firstly,

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Speaker 3: consider the dynamic, because if you find yourself in repeated

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Speaker 3: situations with an overtalk, you might be the problem. Maybe

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Speaker 3: you're not talking enough, maybe you're asking too many questions.

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Speaker 3: It's a dynamic. You've got to consider your own partner.

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Speaker 3: But if you do, think no, this person is an

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Speaker 3: over talker. Apparently we should start with a bit of empathy. However,

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Speaker 3: honesty is the best policy. So do you want to

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Speaker 3: know what you're meant to say? I do?

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Speaker 2: I definitely need to know.

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Speaker 3: According to this writer, here's what you should say. I

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Speaker 3: know you like to share your opinions and ideas, but

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Speaker 3: I think sometimes you annoy people.

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Speaker 2: That seems really harsh. I was thinking about over talkers

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Speaker 2: I know, and if I said that to them, I

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Speaker 2: think they'd be upset me too.

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Speaker 3: So she says, maybe that's too harsh, so you can

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Speaker 3: try this instead. You are such a great storyteller, but

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Speaker 3: I think you would benefit from asking questions. You can

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Speaker 3: learn a lot that way. Also passive aggressive. She also

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Speaker 3: has some other suggestions because she says that you could

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Speaker 3: use humor right, humor always breaks the eye little bit.

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Speaker 3: How about WHOA? You have a lot to say about that? Oh,

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Speaker 3: I think you just talked without pause for seven and

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Speaker 3: a half minutes.

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Speaker 2: These are all mortifying, Jesse, They're all mortifying.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, but if I said this to any of

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Speaker 3: my friends, they wouldn't be my friends anymore. It's an

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Speaker 3: awful way to talk to someone. The only other advice

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Speaker 3: she had, which I think actually might be a good one.

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Speaker 3: You know, you can get an over talker on the

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Speaker 3: phone sometimes, she says, create a hard stop, so when

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Speaker 3: you answer the phone, you say, hey, I've got to

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Speaker 3: walk the dog in ten minutes, but yep, tell me

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Speaker 3: what you wanted to say, and then create a hard stop. Maya,

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Speaker 3: what do you think of this advice? Too harsh?

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Speaker 1: I don't wish to comment. Do you notice I quiet

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Speaker 1: I've been in this segment, I did a test. There

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Speaker 1: was a test that was linked to in this article

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Speaker 1: about how to tell if you talk too much. I

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Speaker 1: didn't really need to take the test, but I did,

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Speaker 1: and I was pretty much off the charts. And I

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Speaker 1: think the diagnosis was a compulsive communicy. But I've kind

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Speaker 1: of built a career on that. So you know, I

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Speaker 1: talk when I'm tired. I talk too much when I'm anxious.

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Speaker 1: I talk too much as a way to deflect.

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Speaker 3: Do you ever maya see signs in other people and

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Speaker 3: you go, oh, I think I've been talking too much.

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Speaker 3: Do you ever pick up on little social cues?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 3: How about you, Holly?

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Speaker 2: This is so interesting. Well, I couldn't do the test

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Speaker 2: because I couldn't do the adding up, which is a

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Speaker 2: whole different problem that I have. And I've decided that

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Speaker 2: you two know me better than I know myself anyway,

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Speaker 2: So you know whether or not I'm an over talker.

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Speaker 3: No comment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I live with an over talker. He may be

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Speaker 2: my son. And it's interesting because I watch him. He

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Speaker 2: can't physically hold in the words. And so I was

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Speaker 2: thinking about trying some of these tactics, because otherwise you

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Speaker 2: do end up saying a lot And this is what

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Speaker 2: made me a bit sad about it. You do end

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Speaker 2: up saying a lot like shut up, like let someone

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Speaker 2: else talk, and like negatives all the time. Like I

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Speaker 2: think I'm going to try some of these, But they

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Speaker 2: do all still sound mean, don't they.

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Speaker 1: They don't sound as mean as shut up, let someone

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Speaker 1: else get a word in across.

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Speaker 2: This is a family. That's how we talk to each

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Speaker 2: other in a family.

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Speaker 3: Right. Most people, though, who do overtalk, and I think

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Speaker 3: that this article acknowledged it, do have some form of

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Speaker 3: anxiety and you can often see that, and so what

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Speaker 3: you don't want to do is, you know, affect their

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Speaker 3: self esteem more so that they're more embarrassed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we're the true victims here.

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Speaker 4: I don't want my partner working unless she wants to work.

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Speaker 4: If you feel the need to go and work to

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Speaker 4: make money, and then you come home and you're complaining

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Speaker 4: about your day when we don't need you to make

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Speaker 4: money because we're sorted. If we've got four hours to

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Speaker 4: spend in the afternoon, and I ask you, how is

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Speaker 4: your day today, babe?

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Speaker 1: Are want your eyes to line up.

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Speaker 4: With excitement, with whatever the fuck it was four postcards

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Speaker 4: today and it's so good. It's the calm, it's the harmony,

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Speaker 4: it's peace and love that a man that's got a

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Speaker 4: busy life, that's chasing his dreams needs when he's trying

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Speaker 4: to wind down.

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Speaker 2: A man called Chris Griffin, that's who you just heard.

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Speaker 2: He is a podcast host and a YouTuber with a

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Speaker 2: big following now. He talks a lot about self optimization, fitness,

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Speaker 2: mental health, chasing your dreams, achieving your dreams. And he

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Speaker 2: said what he said, and now everybody's very upset. For

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Speaker 2: a little bit of context, I went back to listen

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Speaker 2: to a little bit of this conversation because Chris was

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Speaker 2: talking on this to another YouTuber, an adventure creator called

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Speaker 2: Wade Papenfuss, And what they were talking about before they

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Speaker 2: got to this bit was about having relationships and how

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Speaker 2: it's quite challenging to have relationships when you're very you're

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Speaker 2: in a big growth phase, right, So they're both obviously

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Speaker 2: very ambitious dudes. They're out there chasing their dreams, as

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Speaker 2: they said, and they were like, there isn't really space

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Speaker 2: for a girlfriend at the moment. But if there was one,

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Speaker 2: and they would quite like them, because they both agreed

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Speaker 2: that the presence of women was comforting. They said, is.

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Speaker 1: That code for blowjobs?

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Speaker 2: I think it's code for attends to our needs. I

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Speaker 2: think that's what that's code for. They sort of noodled

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Speaker 2: around about what women want and what they're good for

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Speaker 2: and what they're useful for, and it led them to

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Speaker 2: this conversation about how they would like the women in

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Speaker 2: their lives to have a passion. Wade suggested he would

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Speaker 2: like it if a girl would be into collecting stamps,

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Speaker 2: which is where Chris's comment about if she's collected for

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Speaker 2: postcards today, that's great came. Chris said he didn't mind

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Speaker 2: if the girl in this mythical girl was platning Barbie

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Speaker 2: doll tales. He said it was fine as long as

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Speaker 2: they were happy, and that he was a big encourager

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Speaker 2: of his girl going for hot girl walks to get

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Speaker 2: their feminine chat out. As you can imagine, this commentary

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Speaker 2: sparked some shit. First of all, I want to ask

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Speaker 2: Mia Jesse. We've been traveling around this past week, working, working,

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Speaker 2: doing one of the most fun jobs ever, but working nonetheless,

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Speaker 2: and when we all got home, I wonder what the

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Speaker 2: energy we brought into the house was.

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Speaker 3: The energy I bring into the house most days is

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Speaker 3: something I don't think Chris would want anything to do with.

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Speaker 3: And that's that's one of the many reasons we are

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Speaker 3: not married. But look, the work thing is one thing,

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Speaker 3: and if we put that to one side, what he

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Speaker 3: is saying is that I want you to be so

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Speaker 3: emotionally regulated and so even, and so in control of

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Speaker 3: your emotions and catered to me that when I walk

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Speaker 3: in the door, because I'm going to have a stressful

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Speaker 3: job and I'm really ambitious and my life is complex

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Speaker 3: and meaningful, and that will come with highs and lows.

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Speaker 3: So then when I come into my home, I need

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Speaker 3: you to be the steady one. And the example of

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Speaker 3: all of those the stamp collecting and the platting Barbie

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Speaker 3: doll hair, which is fine, you can do that. What

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Speaker 3: I will say about both of those hobbies is that

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Speaker 3: they have no intrinsic meaning. They are totally meaningless. And

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Speaker 3: I'm not saying that work has to be where you

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Speaker 3: get your meaning from. There's a point to be made there, absolutely,

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Speaker 3: And if women, I've said this before, I think that

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Speaker 3: caregiving and looking after kids or sick relatives or whatever

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Speaker 3: is a really justified and important thing to do with

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Speaker 3: your life. But it's also I would say that there's

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Speaker 3: something inherently meaningful about that. And as someone who recently

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Speaker 3: was on maternity leave, I can tell you that when

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Speaker 3: Luca walked in the door sometimes my eyes didn't light up.

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Speaker 3: I'd had a really, really tough day, and so that expectation,

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Speaker 3: to me betrays the fact that he's twenty two. I

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Speaker 3: think it's naivety and idealism that he doesn't really know

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Speaker 3: what it is to be in a long term relationship

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Speaker 3: with an adult woman.

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Speaker 1: I thought he was older than that. I didn't realize

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Speaker 1: he was only twenty two. That explains a lot more.

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Speaker 1: I think that this guy probably hasn't had such a

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Speaker 1: great week. I feel like what he started off by

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Speaker 1: saying was actually correct, which is, I don't want my

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Speaker 1: partner to work unless she wants to. So it's not

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Speaker 1: like he was denying her of all autonomy. But what

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Speaker 1: was quite revealing is that he couldn't imagine a woman

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Speaker 1: wanting to work if she had the option to not work.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that is something that is a

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Speaker 1: really wide held belief, widely held belief and one that

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Speaker 1: a lot of us internalize. And that's why when this

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Speaker 1: conversation often happens after you have kids in a relationship,

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Speaker 1: when the conversation comes to will she go back to work,

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Speaker 1: it comes down to, oh, but by the time we

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Speaker 1: pay for childcare? What's the point? As if the only

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Speaker 1: reason a woman would ever work is for money? And

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Speaker 1: that's what he also said. He said, if I'm making

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Speaker 1: enough money, if I'm successful, and I've got enough money

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Speaker 1: that we don't have to work to pay the bills

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Speaker 1: and put food on the table, then why would any

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Speaker 1: woman want to? Now there are some who women who

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Speaker 1: wouldn't want to, at least they might think they don't

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Speaker 1: want to, But what does happen with things like superannuation?

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Speaker 1: What does happen with their financial independence and ability to

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Speaker 1: leave that relationship? If he cheats, if he becomes violent,

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Speaker 1: if she just doesn't want to be with him anymore,

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Speaker 1: if she's got this big gap where she hasn't worked,

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Speaker 1: if she's been a stay at home girlfriend or a

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Speaker 1: stay at home mother, it might seem like a good choice,

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Speaker 1: but it's hard to be able to have a crystal

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Speaker 1: ball and know what the future is going to bring.

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Speaker 1: But I also do think that he's really right in

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Speaker 1: some respects, because what nobody tells you is that when

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Speaker 1: you've got two big careers, you start playing the who's

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Speaker 1: busier and who's more hardly done by Olympics, and it's

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Speaker 1: like a big struggle to be on the top of

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Speaker 1: the leaderboard as to who's the busiest and the most tired.

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Speaker 3: I played that Olympics when I was at home with

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Speaker 3: a baby too. By the way, Yeah, I agree, I

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Speaker 3: agree with that.

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad you made that point, because it's not like,

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Speaker 1: even if something's fulfilling and you're looking after a child

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Speaker 1: and you love that child, even if your job's for

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Speaker 1: filling and you love that job and you love your

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Speaker 1: hot girl walk, you still might come home and have

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Speaker 1: normal humans about it and want to talk about them.

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Speaker 2: I think you make a very good point there, Mir,

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Speaker 2: and that if this conversation wasn't really as gendered as

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Speaker 2: it is, and it was like, you know, the whole

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Speaker 2: point about particularly when you have a family, whether you

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Speaker 2: can both have Because they were talking very much in

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Speaker 2: the context as to very ambitious men right who clearly

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Speaker 2: their work and their career is very important to them, right.

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Speaker 2: That was very much the context of this conversation, And

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Speaker 2: so they were pondering what they wanted in a partner

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Speaker 2: in that context, and clearly what they want in a

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Speaker 2: partner in that context is a support person, like not.

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Speaker 1: I don't mean the traditional sense, yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I don't necessarily mean because they just want them

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Speaker 2: to do their washing or whatever. But they want somebody

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Speaker 2: to hold down the home and the harmony of the

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Speaker 2: home and all that kind of stuff. And you could

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Speaker 2: argue that everybody needs that, and there are lots of

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Speaker 2: conversations that couples and families have about who's gonna take

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Speaker 2: a step back, who's going to take a step forward

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Speaker 2: at different times. But the thing was, is I wonder

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Speaker 2: if he feels the same way. I don't think he would.

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Speaker 2: If a man doesn't want to work, does he have

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Speaker 2: to work? Should he have to work?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 2: And this idea of I want the peace and harmony

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Speaker 2: that a man who's chasing his dream needs when he

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Speaker 2: tries to wind down when he gets home, just feels

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Speaker 2: so much that the man and his needs is always

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Speaker 2: at the top of the leaderboard, you know, which I

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Speaker 2: think is one of the things that's pushed a lot

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Speaker 2: of buttons because a lot of people have been got

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Speaker 2: really mad about this. Laura hen sure she wasn't mad,

347
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Speaker 2: but on the kickpod asked a lot of the questions

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Speaker 2: you did then Mia, where she said, well, Chris, that's fine,

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Speaker 2: but are you going to if your partner isn't working,

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Speaker 2: are you going to pay into her super for her?

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Speaker 2: Are you going to give her a weekly allowance to spend?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 2: How practically does this work? And then doesn't that totally

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Speaker 2: alter the power balance in this relationship? That's the problem

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Speaker 2: with it is that on the surface, of course, it's

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Speaker 2: a lovely idea that I want someone I love to

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Speaker 2: get to live the life they want and make her

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Speaker 2: home happy and all those things, but the details of

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Speaker 2: it mean that you would always be in control that relationship.

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Speaker 3: This reveals a deep anxiety that I don't know if

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Speaker 3: a lot of men feel it, but certainly maybe men

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Speaker 3: like him feel it, which is maybe justified that two

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Speaker 3: generations ago, men's role was really clear. It was really

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Speaker 3: easily defined. You had a job and it was to

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Speaker 3: provide for your family. I say that like it was easy,

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Speaker 3: it actually wasn't because for a lot of men, whether

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Speaker 3: it was during the depression or it was during recessions,

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Speaker 3: their entire identity was their employment, and when their employment

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Speaker 3: was lost, that was a disaster. But because of the

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Speaker 3: economic realities of the modern day, most homes need two

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Speaker 3: people working, especially at the moment, that is the real

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Speaker 3: You live in a capital city exactly. And so I'm

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Speaker 3: hearing a lot and we know this. There's been much

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Speaker 3: spoken about the manisphere and men kind of trying to

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Speaker 3: hold on to what it is that makes them a

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Speaker 3: man and why that's different to a woman. And I

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Speaker 3: think that that maybe makes people feel safe. And I've

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Speaker 3: seen this resurgence of masculine and feminine energy, which is

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Speaker 3: something he spoke about a lot where he basically says

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Speaker 3: there's a natural feminine and a natural masculine, And the

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Speaker 3: idea is that he goes to work and he's ambitious

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Speaker 3: and he's active, whereas she needs to get in touch

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Speaker 3: with her girlfriends and go on her hot girl walks

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Speaker 3: and all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: It's a very bridget in way of looking at women,

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Speaker 1: isn't it.

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Speaker 3: And it's coded. It's coded, I think, so it's not

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Speaker 3: as simple. I see a lot of people in even

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Speaker 3: the wellness faces talk about it, and on the surface,

390
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Speaker 3: you go, all right, maybe masculine and feminine exists within

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Speaker 3: all of us to varying degrees at different points throughout

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Speaker 3: our whole lives.

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Speaker 1: Whatever.

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Speaker 3: But what it's often saying is men are asserting their role.

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Speaker 3: And what that means for the woman is caregiver, quiet,

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Speaker 3: support stuff, support stuff, exactly exactly right, receiver like all

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Speaker 3: of these things that I think very quickly diminish her

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Speaker 3: and degrade her.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, he wants a trad wife, and there

400
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Speaker 1: are lots of women who want to be trad wives,

401
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Speaker 1: so kind of good luck to them all.

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Speaker 2: Surely, Yeah, if the jigsaws all fit together, then that's great.

403
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Speaker 2: But I want to push back slightly. You know, working

404
00:20:26,581 --> 00:20:29,061
Speaker 2: class women have always had to work. My grandparents work,

405
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Speaker 2: my grandmother's worked, like most families have always had to

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Speaker 2: have a balance of this kind of stuff and piece

407
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Speaker 2: it together. I feel like it's become a real status symbol,

408
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Speaker 2: particularly in this particular corner of self optimized maleness. It's

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Speaker 2: a real status symbol to be able to say my

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Speaker 2: partner doesn't have to work. It's seen as an aspirational thing,

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Speaker 2: and I think that that's unfortunate because I think it's

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Speaker 2: still always casts women's career as secondary and the disposable one.

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Speaker 2: And really I think that in most partnerships and families

414
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Speaker 2: and groups, it's about personality, it's about different people, it's

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Speaker 2: about what they want, and you have to make compromises

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Speaker 2: around that. But it's just not as simple as men strive,

417
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Speaker 2: women care, and I don't actually think it has ever

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Speaker 2: been that simple.

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Speaker 3: When I first kind of saw this, I went, A man,

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Speaker 3: a woman, whatever, has the right to marry whoever they want.

421
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Speaker 3: That's a nature of heterosexuality. You can make it as

422
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Speaker 3: political as you like, but if a man doesn't want

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Speaker 3: to be with a feminist, then he won't be with

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Speaker 3: a feminist. Relationships end, they begin, they're rearranged, then it's negotiated.

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Speaker 3: Whatever he can marry whoever he wants, and if he

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Speaker 3: wants to provide for her, that's fine. The issue a

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Speaker 3: lot of men and women took with this was the

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Speaker 3: music that was the bed of the clip and the

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Speaker 3: way in which he was positioning this as as aspirational

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Speaker 3: and as a man. If you really consider yourself ambitious

431
00:21:54,381 --> 00:21:57,302
Speaker 3: and building an empire, then here's what you need. In

432
00:21:57,341 --> 00:22:03,421
Speaker 3: a woman and that instruction grinded people in a moment.

433
00:22:03,581 --> 00:22:06,741
Speaker 3: All the drama from Australian Fashion Week and why interviews

434
00:22:06,942 --> 00:22:13,262
Speaker 3: with influencers are going viral, I want to present to

435
00:22:13,302 --> 00:22:16,542
Speaker 3: you both an all or nothing story from this year's

436
00:22:16,581 --> 00:22:21,061
Speaker 3: Australian Fashion Week, which just wrapped up in Sydney. People

437
00:22:21,141 --> 00:22:24,222
Speaker 3: will know either everything about this story if you spent

438
00:22:24,262 --> 00:22:26,621
Speaker 3: your weekend stuck in a TikTok rabbit hole with names

439
00:22:26,661 --> 00:22:30,581
Speaker 3: like Sofa dofa Jamie as a party and something about

440
00:22:30,702 --> 00:22:35,941
Speaker 3: micro trend's final boss taking over your feed what or

441
00:22:36,222 --> 00:22:39,462
Speaker 3: perhaps you are me on Friday who had never heard

442
00:22:39,581 --> 00:22:41,502
Speaker 3: of any of these things or any of these people.

443
00:22:42,742 --> 00:22:46,022
Speaker 3: For some context, the event was held this year by

444
00:22:46,061 --> 00:22:49,341
Speaker 3: the Australian Fashion Council for the first time, so their

445
00:22:49,381 --> 00:22:52,302
Speaker 3: long running partner IMG pulled out at the end of

446
00:22:52,381 --> 00:22:55,901
Speaker 3: last year, meaning that this was a much scaled back event.

447
00:22:56,462 --> 00:22:58,662
Speaker 3: So if you heard nothing at all about fashion Week,

448
00:22:59,141 --> 00:23:02,662
Speaker 3: that might be why. Now for the drama, this year

449
00:23:02,942 --> 00:23:05,502
Speaker 3: was all about the influencers, and I don't mean that

450
00:23:05,661 --> 00:23:09,542
Speaker 3: in a derogatory way. They are wielding the most power

451
00:23:09,742 --> 00:23:12,461
Speaker 3: when it comes to fashion trends at the moment and

452
00:23:12,621 --> 00:23:16,621
Speaker 3: brands or blogs sent social media teams to do fox pops.

453
00:23:17,422 --> 00:23:20,702
Speaker 3: Vox pops are little interviews that you do on the street,

454
00:23:20,782 --> 00:23:22,982
Speaker 3: or we might send someone to a premiere and interview

455
00:23:23,101 --> 00:23:25,581
Speaker 3: an actor, or it's sort of like a behind the

456
00:23:25,621 --> 00:23:28,542
Speaker 3: scenes look at what's going on at an event. But

457
00:23:28,702 --> 00:23:34,581
Speaker 3: some influences thought that the questions they were thrown were inappropriate.

458
00:23:34,901 --> 00:23:37,502
Speaker 3: Here's a little bit of what Sofa dofa had to say.

459
00:23:37,782 --> 00:23:41,262
Speaker 5: Someone asked a bunch of creators, who's the biggest micro

460
00:23:41,381 --> 00:23:43,502
Speaker 5: trend final boss? First of all?

461
00:23:43,782 --> 00:23:44,302
Speaker 1: Shit question.

462
00:23:44,422 --> 00:23:45,741
Speaker 5: I don't know how many people they ask, but you

463
00:23:45,782 --> 00:23:49,862
Speaker 5: can see almost everyone is uncomfortable and clearly doesn't want

464
00:23:49,901 --> 00:23:52,021
Speaker 5: to answer that because you're pretty much asking them to

465
00:23:52,141 --> 00:23:54,341
Speaker 5: name a creator and like call them out, and that's

466
00:23:54,381 --> 00:23:57,581
Speaker 5: just not like. I feel like the Australian influencer scene

467
00:23:57,621 --> 00:24:00,341
Speaker 5: is already so toxic and we have such big, like

468
00:24:00,422 --> 00:24:04,462
Speaker 5: tall poppy syndrome, like we don't need other creators bringing

469
00:24:04,821 --> 00:24:07,302
Speaker 5: people down. Also, I got named as one of them

470
00:24:07,341 --> 00:24:09,701
Speaker 5: by someone that will schan to Australian.

471
00:24:09,302 --> 00:24:11,421
Speaker 3: Bat allow me to translate.

472
00:24:11,702 --> 00:24:14,502
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, Jesse, could you please translate because

473
00:24:14,502 --> 00:24:15,981
Speaker 2: none of that made any sense to me.

474
00:24:16,101 --> 00:24:19,661
Speaker 3: Okay, So micro Trend Final Boss is basically like asking

475
00:24:19,742 --> 00:24:22,782
Speaker 3: someone who is the biggest fashion victim, who is someone

476
00:24:22,782 --> 00:24:24,982
Speaker 3: who falls for every little trend and it's not something

477
00:24:25,022 --> 00:24:25,782
Speaker 3: you'd be stoked.

478
00:24:25,782 --> 00:24:28,342
Speaker 2: It's me, I was gonna say, it's mea Sue Jewelry.

479
00:24:28,341 --> 00:24:29,982
Speaker 3: What I was going to say is that there's only

480
00:24:30,022 --> 00:24:32,022
Speaker 3: one person in Australia who wouldn't have an issue with

481
00:24:32,061 --> 00:24:33,262
Speaker 3: that title, and it's Maya Freed.

482
00:24:33,621 --> 00:24:34,941
Speaker 1: I didn't realize it was an insult.

483
00:24:37,022 --> 00:24:39,222
Speaker 3: The other questions they were asked were things like your

484
00:24:39,222 --> 00:24:42,462
Speaker 3: most expensive piece of clothing, how much they earn their

485
00:24:42,462 --> 00:24:45,941
Speaker 3: most controversial fashion opinion, that kind of thing. Now, Jamie

486
00:24:46,022 --> 00:24:49,662
Speaker 3: as a party, they are a celebrity stylist, and when

487
00:24:49,702 --> 00:24:54,502
Speaker 3: asked about micro Trend Final Boss, they said so for

488
00:24:54,621 --> 00:24:59,341
Speaker 3: Dofa and so for Dopher was like that's mean, and

489
00:24:59,462 --> 00:25:01,902
Speaker 3: so for Dopha.

490
00:25:00,982 --> 00:25:02,942
Speaker 1: Was like, take me out of this narrative.

491
00:25:03,061 --> 00:25:07,462
Speaker 3: Yes, and you're wearing Sheen and she is an insult exactly,

492
00:25:07,542 --> 00:25:12,182
Speaker 3: which is that fast fashion giant? So you're a hypocrite.

493
00:25:12,422 --> 00:25:15,502
Speaker 3: So fast fashion was a big thing and something that

494
00:25:15,542 --> 00:25:17,542
Speaker 3: a lot of them were asked about, and a lot

495
00:25:17,581 --> 00:25:20,181
Speaker 3: of people would be you know, there's this viral clip

496
00:25:20,182 --> 00:25:22,821
Speaker 3: of a woman standing there and she's got this over

497
00:25:22,861 --> 00:25:24,502
Speaker 3: the top dress on and over the top hat on,

498
00:25:24,581 --> 00:25:27,502
Speaker 3: and someone says, what's the biggest fashion mistake people are making?

499
00:25:27,542 --> 00:25:31,302
Speaker 3: And she says fast fashion yuck, which, by the way,

500
00:25:31,422 --> 00:25:34,261
Speaker 3: I fundamentally agree with. But all the comments on this

501
00:25:34,302 --> 00:25:36,542
Speaker 3: are going are you planning on re wearing that hat?

502
00:25:36,782 --> 00:25:36,861
Speaker 4: Like?

503
00:25:36,901 --> 00:25:38,462
Speaker 3: How often are you going to wear that hat? How

504
00:25:38,462 --> 00:25:41,581
Speaker 3: often are you going to wear that dress? And the tension,

505
00:25:41,621 --> 00:25:43,581
Speaker 3: of course, is that people do not want to be

506
00:25:43,661 --> 00:25:46,702
Speaker 3: told by people richer than them and thinner than them

507
00:25:47,022 --> 00:25:50,141
Speaker 3: that they need to stay away from fast fashion because

508
00:25:50,542 --> 00:25:53,421
Speaker 3: for people who can't go up to the local shops

509
00:25:53,462 --> 00:25:56,661
Speaker 3: and buy something that fits them, this is the only

510
00:25:56,742 --> 00:26:01,182
Speaker 3: business that's catering to them. So there is this it's

511
00:26:01,222 --> 00:26:04,382
Speaker 3: easy for people even op shopping, and this is what

512
00:26:04,661 --> 00:26:06,701
Speaker 3: was being discussed in the comments. Even going to your

513
00:26:06,702 --> 00:26:09,782
Speaker 3: local op shop has become more and more expensive because

514
00:26:09,821 --> 00:26:12,222
Speaker 3: the quality of the clothes is more. I was speaking

515
00:26:12,222 --> 00:26:15,861
Speaker 3: to someone recently who works at knopshop who were saying

516
00:26:15,861 --> 00:26:18,741
Speaker 3: that they will not put she in clothes on the

517
00:26:18,821 --> 00:26:22,542
Speaker 3: rack if you put fast fashioned tea moochi in in

518
00:26:22,581 --> 00:26:24,941
Speaker 3: a bag and go and donate it. They will not

519
00:26:24,982 --> 00:26:28,982
Speaker 3: put it on the rack because they probably can't put

520
00:26:29,022 --> 00:26:30,941
Speaker 3: it on the rack for the same price or cheaper

521
00:26:30,982 --> 00:26:33,061
Speaker 3: than what you would get it on the internet tomorrow.

522
00:26:33,141 --> 00:26:35,701
Speaker 1: There's also this not virtue signaling because it's true, but

523
00:26:35,782 --> 00:26:37,821
Speaker 1: the answer that you should be giving. You know, what

524
00:26:37,821 --> 00:26:40,621
Speaker 1: are you wearing? Oh, this is all thrifted, this is

525
00:26:40,661 --> 00:26:44,061
Speaker 1: all vintage, this is all borrowed. That doesn't help the

526
00:26:44,061 --> 00:26:48,422
Speaker 1: fashion industry, That doesn't help the Australian fashion industry, and actually.

527
00:26:48,141 --> 00:26:50,782
Speaker 2: Doesn't help the consumer because they can't buy what you're

528
00:26:50,782 --> 00:26:52,702
Speaker 2: wearing exactly.

529
00:26:52,782 --> 00:26:55,662
Speaker 3: And something that one of the stylists was saying is that, oh,

530
00:26:55,702 --> 00:27:00,341
Speaker 3: we've got this poo pooing of Shean or other fast

531
00:27:00,422 --> 00:27:02,621
Speaker 3: fashion brands, But do you want to know where some

532
00:27:02,661 --> 00:27:04,262
Speaker 3: of your designer clothes were made. They were made in

533
00:27:04,262 --> 00:27:07,782
Speaker 3: the same factory. So I think that we are lifting

534
00:27:07,821 --> 00:27:10,622
Speaker 3: the lid on a lot of this camerism. And it's

535
00:27:10,661 --> 00:27:14,701
Speaker 3: messy and it's confusing, and people have to make a

536
00:27:14,742 --> 00:27:17,502
Speaker 3: living somehow, and there's a lot of hypocrisy. So here

537
00:27:17,542 --> 00:27:20,661
Speaker 3: are my questions, because this is the great philosophical debate

538
00:27:20,702 --> 00:27:24,262
Speaker 3: of the day. Has Fashion Week become an ethical nightmare?

539
00:27:24,901 --> 00:27:28,661
Speaker 3: Is this controversy inevitable when influencers become front and center?

540
00:27:29,061 --> 00:27:32,222
Speaker 3: And why do you think the questions directed at influences

541
00:27:32,702 --> 00:27:35,621
Speaker 3: are so weird? Holly? What do you reckon?

542
00:27:37,141 --> 00:27:40,262
Speaker 2: Well, obviously they are definitely trying to get them to

543
00:27:40,302 --> 00:27:42,422
Speaker 2: talk shit about each other. That's exactly what they're doing

544
00:27:42,462 --> 00:27:45,302
Speaker 2: for virality. We all know that, right, is that as

545
00:27:45,341 --> 00:27:47,702
Speaker 2: you would say, Jesse, you'd say, look at the Internet,

546
00:27:47,901 --> 00:27:52,502
Speaker 2: nobody's going viral, being gushingly positive about anybody on there.

547
00:27:53,141 --> 00:27:56,502
Speaker 2: But it is very unfair to do it because you know,

548
00:27:56,581 --> 00:27:59,341
Speaker 2: I'm sure that most of the influencers stopped outside and

549
00:27:59,422 --> 00:28:01,461
Speaker 2: asked with the little fluffy mic because that's what it

550
00:28:01,462 --> 00:28:04,701
Speaker 2: looks like, you know, probably feeling quite game and they

551
00:28:04,782 --> 00:28:07,662
Speaker 2: want to participate in all those things, and then they've

552
00:28:07,661 --> 00:28:09,302
Speaker 2: got to think about that on their feet, and they're

553
00:28:09,302 --> 00:28:10,741
Speaker 2: not or how it's going to be portrayed, and it

554
00:28:10,901 --> 00:28:16,542
Speaker 2: feels mean what I'm confused about because I'm in the camp.

555
00:28:16,661 --> 00:28:19,502
Speaker 2: I had been oblivious to this. I'd only noticed that

556
00:28:19,742 --> 00:28:23,821
Speaker 2: Australian Fashion Week was going on because a very few

557
00:28:23,861 --> 00:28:27,101
Speaker 2: people on my feed were there and posing outside. I've

558
00:28:27,182 --> 00:28:30,702
Speaker 2: seen almost nothing from catwalks I've seen almost no actual

559
00:28:30,782 --> 00:28:34,382
Speaker 2: fashion of any kind. I've seen very little commentary about it,

560
00:28:34,901 --> 00:28:38,942
Speaker 2: and I just wonder if it's even relevant anymore. Mia,

561
00:28:39,102 --> 00:28:43,382
Speaker 2: you speak much better fashion than I do. Explain why

562
00:28:43,782 --> 00:28:46,221
Speaker 2: it's still a thing that everybody's talking about.

563
00:28:46,782 --> 00:28:49,782
Speaker 1: Well, they're not really, except for people who are making

564
00:28:49,822 --> 00:28:52,222
Speaker 1: content about the thing that none of us are really

565
00:28:52,262 --> 00:28:55,622
Speaker 1: talking about. I went to the first Australian Fashion Week

566
00:28:55,702 --> 00:28:59,222
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety six and it was meant to be

567
00:28:59,342 --> 00:29:01,822
Speaker 1: and it was for a really long time a way

568
00:29:01,862 --> 00:29:05,302
Speaker 1: to showcase Australian designers, and some of the designers that

569
00:29:05,862 --> 00:29:08,741
Speaker 1: walk to the catwalk then, like Zimmerman, have gone on

570
00:29:08,782 --> 00:29:12,462
Speaker 1: to be international, all huge labels. And when I was

571
00:29:12,502 --> 00:29:15,702
Speaker 1: a magazine editor, it was magazine editors and media who

572
00:29:15,702 --> 00:29:19,582
Speaker 1: would go and buyers from late department stores and the designers,

573
00:29:19,942 --> 00:29:21,981
Speaker 1: some who you knew and some that you didn't. It

574
00:29:21,982 --> 00:29:24,582
Speaker 1: was very expensive to put on a show, but it

575
00:29:24,622 --> 00:29:28,822
Speaker 1: would pay for itself, hopefully in exposure and coverage in

576
00:29:29,342 --> 00:29:34,181
Speaker 1: press and in sales to department stores and stuff. But

577
00:29:34,502 --> 00:29:39,941
Speaker 1: now with social media, fashion influencers and micro trends aren't

578
00:29:40,022 --> 00:29:45,902
Speaker 1: actually about the things that Australian designers manufacture because it

579
00:29:46,022 --> 00:29:49,662
Speaker 1: takes too long. Everything's sped up to the point where

580
00:29:49,702 --> 00:29:51,662
Speaker 1: it used to be that you know, fashion Week would

581
00:29:51,702 --> 00:29:54,062
Speaker 1: happen has always been around this time of year, but

582
00:29:54,102 --> 00:29:57,461
Speaker 1: they would be showing Spring summer, which wouldn't be available

583
00:29:57,702 --> 00:30:01,262
Speaker 1: until August or September. That would be fine because the

584
00:30:01,262 --> 00:30:04,502
Speaker 1: magazines were also you know, needed to work three months

585
00:30:04,502 --> 00:30:07,422
Speaker 1: in advance, so all of that cycle would work quite well.

586
00:30:07,462 --> 00:30:11,142
Speaker 1: But now that everything's instant, what's shown on the catwalk

587
00:30:11,702 --> 00:30:14,582
Speaker 1: you can't buy tomorrow or the next day, or even

588
00:30:14,622 --> 00:30:16,701
Speaker 1: next week or next month. That's how it used to be,

589
00:30:17,262 --> 00:30:19,661
Speaker 1: and the things that people are wearing outside and the

590
00:30:19,702 --> 00:30:23,741
Speaker 1: content that they make are about global trends, not about

591
00:30:23,942 --> 00:30:28,102
Speaker 1: you know, seasons in Australia or particular designers here. And

592
00:30:28,142 --> 00:30:31,782
Speaker 1: so that's why. To satisfy this instant gratification for these

593
00:30:31,822 --> 00:30:34,222
Speaker 1: micro trends which moves so fast, and you know we've

594
00:30:34,222 --> 00:30:35,822
Speaker 1: talked about on the show before, it might seem like

595
00:30:35,822 --> 00:30:39,142
Speaker 1: there's a different one every week. To support that, you

596
00:30:39,302 --> 00:30:42,582
Speaker 1: usually have to buy things from these global fast fashion

597
00:30:43,102 --> 00:30:47,342
Speaker 1: behemoths whose impact on the environment is hugely questionable. You know,

598
00:30:47,422 --> 00:30:50,982
Speaker 1: the sheines, the czars, the all of those kind of labels,

599
00:30:51,062 --> 00:30:54,342
Speaker 1: the temus. It's almost like the whole influencer world and

600
00:30:54,422 --> 00:30:58,622
Speaker 1: micro trends exists separately to the actual Australian fashion industry

601
00:30:58,742 --> 00:30:59,742
Speaker 1: of selling clothes.

602
00:30:59,902 --> 00:31:01,422
Speaker 2: Your spot interesting.

603
00:31:01,542 --> 00:31:05,902
Speaker 3: I also reckon that there is a legitimate tension that

604
00:31:05,982 --> 00:31:09,262
Speaker 3: you just spoke to Maya. You said it that first

605
00:31:09,702 --> 00:31:13,502
Speaker 3: fashion week there were you know, whether it was stylists,

606
00:31:13,582 --> 00:31:17,862
Speaker 3: magazine editors, fashion journalists who had a certain set of

607
00:31:18,102 --> 00:31:21,501
Speaker 3: training and experience that made them able to speak a

608
00:31:21,502 --> 00:31:25,062
Speaker 3: certain language and afforded them a certain understanding of what

609
00:31:25,342 --> 00:31:28,982
Speaker 3: they were watching. Right, And this isn't to undermine influences,

610
00:31:29,702 --> 00:31:33,501
Speaker 3: but what's lacking is expertise because you might be wearing

611
00:31:33,542 --> 00:31:37,062
Speaker 3: a dress that you bought online or whatever. But fashion

612
00:31:37,062 --> 00:31:41,102
Speaker 3: week can become all appearance, no substance because the people

613
00:31:41,142 --> 00:31:44,782
Speaker 3: you're speaking to don't necessarily know anything about the Australian

614
00:31:44,782 --> 00:31:49,262
Speaker 3: fashion industry. They're showing up. They're being invited because people

615
00:31:49,302 --> 00:31:52,302
Speaker 3: want them to make content or appear in content that

616
00:31:52,382 --> 00:31:55,222
Speaker 3: will go viral. So they are being used as pawns

617
00:31:55,222 --> 00:31:58,022
Speaker 3: in a game of exposure.

618
00:31:57,661 --> 00:32:01,262
Speaker 1: But also their contents about themselves. It's not about anyone else,

619
00:32:01,342 --> 00:32:04,502
Speaker 1: like when it was magazines and again, I've never been

620
00:32:04,542 --> 00:32:07,382
Speaker 1: really a fan. I've never been in that world of catwalks,

621
00:32:07,462 --> 00:32:10,622
Speaker 1: and I find them hugely problematic with the models that

622
00:32:10,661 --> 00:32:13,582
Speaker 1: they show. There are also very expensive for designers, and

623
00:32:13,622 --> 00:32:16,302
Speaker 1: I'm also not very interested in, you know, the bias

624
00:32:16,382 --> 00:32:18,782
Speaker 1: cut of that skirt length. You know, I don't find

625
00:32:18,782 --> 00:32:21,421
Speaker 1: that interesting to me. Clothes are a lot more about

626
00:32:21,462 --> 00:32:25,302
Speaker 1: feelings and about practicality. But you know, back in the

627
00:32:25,382 --> 00:32:29,102
Speaker 1: days of magazines, magazines wrote about clothes and designers, whereas

628
00:32:29,142 --> 00:32:32,622
Speaker 1: influencers are just about themselves. And that's fine, but it's

629
00:32:32,942 --> 00:32:37,142
Speaker 1: these are two different parallel tracks that almost don't intersect

630
00:32:37,182 --> 00:32:37,622
Speaker 1: at all.

631
00:32:37,702 --> 00:32:40,822
Speaker 3: The other difference is that all those years ago, if

632
00:32:40,862 --> 00:32:44,342
Speaker 3: you were a designer, for example, or even if you're

633
00:32:44,382 --> 00:32:47,421
Speaker 3: on a red carpet right let's say you're ashaketty, you

634
00:32:47,542 --> 00:32:50,782
Speaker 3: have been subject to some sort of media training. Someone

635
00:32:50,822 --> 00:32:53,862
Speaker 3: has taught you what to answer, what not to answer,

636
00:32:54,222 --> 00:32:58,342
Speaker 3: how to speak, all of that. And this sofa Doph

637
00:32:58,382 --> 00:33:01,502
Speaker 3: made of really I thought valid point, which was none

638
00:33:01,542 --> 00:33:02,622
Speaker 3: of us have media training.

639
00:33:02,742 --> 00:33:05,902
Speaker 1: Oh Jesse, come on, they grew up on social media.

640
00:33:06,022 --> 00:33:08,262
Speaker 1: The media we're talking about.

641
00:33:08,462 --> 00:33:10,822
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, no. She had an experience at

642
00:33:10,822 --> 00:33:14,782
Speaker 3: the TikTok Awards two years ago, where Tony Armstrong was

643
00:33:14,782 --> 00:33:18,182
Speaker 3: showing her questions and she said something quite awkward and strange.

644
00:33:18,782 --> 00:33:21,782
Speaker 3: These people do not have when you work in certain industries,

645
00:33:21,782 --> 00:33:24,102
Speaker 3: when you work in media, you're an actor or whatever.

646
00:33:24,142 --> 00:33:26,582
Speaker 1: They don't. You don't get met like this seems to

647
00:33:27,102 --> 00:33:30,982
Speaker 1: like the media training is being on social media. They're

648
00:33:31,022 --> 00:33:33,062
Speaker 1: better trained than any of the rest of us.

649
00:33:33,062 --> 00:33:36,142
Speaker 3: Oh, I totally, I totally disagree. I think that this

650
00:33:36,262 --> 00:33:39,022
Speaker 3: is what happens when even like the freelance or the

651
00:33:39,062 --> 00:33:41,941
Speaker 3: individualization of the work, most of these people have never

652
00:33:41,982 --> 00:33:44,982
Speaker 3: worked in a workplace. They've never even had the privilege

653
00:33:45,022 --> 00:33:47,302
Speaker 3: of learning from other people, so they get.

654
00:33:47,222 --> 00:33:49,662
Speaker 2: Also, Jesse, you made that sound as if, oh if

655
00:33:49,702 --> 00:33:52,461
Speaker 2: only they'd all been so professional in their answers. That

656
00:33:52,582 --> 00:33:55,022
Speaker 2: wasn't the point of the whole exercise, right, The whole

657
00:33:55,062 --> 00:33:58,102
Speaker 2: point was let's create some drama to go viral. So

658
00:33:58,182 --> 00:34:00,222
Speaker 2: they did exactly what was required of them.

659
00:34:00,382 --> 00:34:04,182
Speaker 3: Yes, but then they sit there and go I felt trapped.

660
00:34:04,262 --> 00:34:06,981
Speaker 3: I felt like that was really uncomfortable. I didn't like that,

661
00:34:07,062 --> 00:34:08,902
Speaker 3: and I didn't know how to answer because I've never

662
00:34:08,902 --> 00:34:09,782
Speaker 3: been media tres.

663
00:34:09,902 --> 00:34:12,022
Speaker 1: I don't know what this mythical media training is did

664
00:34:12,062 --> 00:34:13,022
Speaker 1: you get media training?

665
00:34:13,382 --> 00:34:15,982
Speaker 2: Not really, did you learn what not to say to

666
00:34:16,022 --> 00:34:19,142
Speaker 2: a hot mic because of the consequences of having done

667
00:34:19,181 --> 00:34:19,942
Speaker 2: it once or twice?

668
00:34:20,142 --> 00:34:23,021
Speaker 3: Yeah, I reckon that when you say when you tour

669
00:34:23,102 --> 00:34:26,622
Speaker 3: a book or even just working alongside you guys, I

670
00:34:26,661 --> 00:34:29,582
Speaker 3: think that you have the privilege. I have learned so

671
00:34:29,701 --> 00:34:31,501
Speaker 3: much from both of you about what not to say.

672
00:34:31,942 --> 00:34:34,102
Speaker 1: Media training didn't help me every time I've stuck my

673
00:34:34,102 --> 00:34:36,502
Speaker 1: foot in it. I just think that this is a cycle.

674
00:34:36,701 --> 00:34:39,341
Speaker 1: Now we're making content about the content that was made

675
00:34:39,342 --> 00:34:43,501
Speaker 1: about the content. We're now about six steps removed from

676
00:34:43,542 --> 00:34:46,781
Speaker 1: the actual point of why everyone was there, which was

677
00:34:47,422 --> 00:34:50,462
Speaker 1: Australian Fashion Week and to support Australian designers and showcase

678
00:34:50,502 --> 00:34:53,301
Speaker 1: their work. I just think that's how the internet works now.

679
00:34:53,382 --> 00:34:56,582
Speaker 1: And for these influencers to say, oh, I didn't understand

680
00:34:56,582 --> 00:34:59,661
Speaker 1: what was going to happen, I mean, come on, they're

681
00:34:59,701 --> 00:35:02,221
Speaker 1: milking it and we're in an attention economy.

682
00:35:03,221 --> 00:35:05,422
Speaker 2: I'm about to tell you a story that made me

683
00:35:05,462 --> 00:35:09,022
Speaker 2: believe in romance once more because there's a couple from

684
00:35:09,022 --> 00:35:10,981
Speaker 2: the North of England, which is where I'm from.

685
00:35:11,022 --> 00:35:11,382
Speaker 4: Friends.

686
00:35:11,582 --> 00:35:14,862
Speaker 2: They're called Rachel and Norman, and it was Rachel's birthday,

687
00:35:15,062 --> 00:35:17,181
Speaker 2: and they decided to have a night out in Blackpool,

688
00:35:17,221 --> 00:35:19,982
Speaker 2: which is not the most glamorous of locations. But have

689
00:35:20,102 --> 00:35:22,501
Speaker 2: I had a night out in Blackpool in my time? Yes?

690
00:35:22,582 --> 00:35:22,821
Speaker 3: I have.

691
00:35:23,382 --> 00:35:25,022
Speaker 2: They decided to go and have a night out in

692
00:35:25,022 --> 00:35:28,542
Speaker 2: Blackpool and stay at a hotel. Right now, Rachel loves

693
00:35:28,622 --> 00:35:31,982
Speaker 2: crisps chips as you would call them, also hard relate.

694
00:35:32,062 --> 00:35:36,301
Speaker 2: They are my absolute favorite thing, and so he organized

695
00:35:36,342 --> 00:35:39,302
Speaker 2: for the hotel to buy loads of bags of crisps

696
00:35:39,342 --> 00:35:41,341
Speaker 2: to surprise his wife with for when they went up

697
00:35:41,382 --> 00:35:41,861
Speaker 2: to the room.

698
00:35:42,221 --> 00:35:44,421
Speaker 3: That's the most romantic thing I ever heard.

699
00:35:44,622 --> 00:35:48,741
Speaker 2: Yeah, thirty packets of a sortied crisps as a surprise

700
00:35:49,221 --> 00:35:53,342
Speaker 2: on the bed. But the hotel staff misunderstood Johnny's instruction

701
00:35:53,741 --> 00:35:59,462
Speaker 2: and they opened thirty packets of the sordid chick had sprinkled.

702
00:36:00,102 --> 00:36:04,542
Speaker 1: Over the bed like pettles, exactly like rosettals.

703
00:36:04,942 --> 00:36:08,261
Speaker 2: So they walked into the room, presumably for a night

704
00:36:08,302 --> 00:36:12,062
Speaker 2: of exciting passion they'd eat some crisps, to find that

705
00:36:12,142 --> 00:36:16,861
Speaker 2: the bed was a soggy, salty, fatty mess. Rachel, though,

706
00:36:17,261 --> 00:36:19,062
Speaker 2: who is trying to pull back from her four packs

707
00:36:19,062 --> 00:36:21,221
Speaker 2: of chips, a day. Did make sure to eat some

708
00:36:21,261 --> 00:36:23,622
Speaker 2: of them so as not to be wasteful, which I

709
00:36:23,661 --> 00:36:25,701
Speaker 2: think means that she also is not a fan of

710
00:36:25,741 --> 00:36:28,902
Speaker 2: fast fashion Jessy and is ethical like you are. But

711
00:36:29,102 --> 00:36:31,022
Speaker 2: I love this story to be This is.

712
00:36:30,982 --> 00:36:34,982
Speaker 3: A problem with romantic gestures. It's like you think, oh,

713
00:36:35,062 --> 00:36:37,661
Speaker 3: chocolate in the bath or something, and it's like, yeah,

714
00:36:37,661 --> 00:36:40,221
Speaker 3: you just end up with melted chocolate down your boobs,

715
00:36:40,462 --> 00:36:43,821
Speaker 3: like looking absolutely revolting, and your partner's like, this is

716
00:36:43,862 --> 00:36:45,582
Speaker 3: not the sexy moment I thought it was going to be.

717
00:36:45,942 --> 00:36:48,542
Speaker 1: Like sex in the shower or at the beach never

718
00:36:48,622 --> 00:36:51,261
Speaker 1: quite lives up to expectation rolling around in a lot

719
00:36:51,261 --> 00:36:54,181
Speaker 1: of crushed off crisps, So I reckon maybe would live

720
00:36:54,261 --> 00:36:58,382
Speaker 1: up to expectations. I think he'd get cuts after the break.

721
00:36:58,741 --> 00:37:01,062
Speaker 1: We are never ever getting back together. There's some bad

722
00:37:01,102 --> 00:37:04,982
Speaker 1: blood between Blake and Taylor, and I'll explain why in

723
00:37:05,062 --> 00:37:05,622
Speaker 1: a minute.

724
00:37:06,221 --> 00:37:09,382
Speaker 3: Every Tuesday and Thursday, we drop new segments of Mummy

725
00:37:09,582 --> 00:37:13,102
Speaker 3: out Loud just from Maya. Subscribers follow the link in

726
00:37:13,142 --> 00:37:15,462
Speaker 3: the show notes to get your daily Joseph out Loud

727
00:37:15,701 --> 00:37:24,502
Speaker 3: And a big thank you to all our current subscribers.

728
00:37:24,542 --> 00:37:32,542
Speaker 1: I'm last week Taylor Swift was subpoenaed in the upcoming

729
00:37:32,741 --> 00:37:36,941
Speaker 1: Blake Lively Justin Baldoni trial, which frankly cannot come soon

730
00:37:37,062 --> 00:37:39,822
Speaker 1: enough because I think everybody is exhausted. We spoke about

731
00:37:39,822 --> 00:37:42,661
Speaker 1: this on the show last week, but over the weekend

732
00:37:42,661 --> 00:37:46,342
Speaker 1: things got worse for both Taylor and her former best

733
00:37:46,382 --> 00:37:50,301
Speaker 1: friend Blake, and it seems like their ten year friendship

734
00:37:50,342 --> 00:37:52,622
Speaker 1: is over. And it's really sad because Taylor is the

735
00:37:52,622 --> 00:37:56,462
Speaker 1: godmother to Blake's three eldest children, her three daughters, and

736
00:37:56,622 --> 00:37:59,622
Speaker 1: they've been super tight. Remember at the Super Bowl last year,

737
00:38:00,181 --> 00:38:03,661
Speaker 1: Blake was by Taylor's side. So what happened over the

738
00:38:03,661 --> 00:38:07,702
Speaker 1: weekend is that Justin Baldoni's lawyer, Brian Friedman no relation

739
00:38:08,781 --> 00:38:11,301
Speaker 1: sent a letter or applied to the judge to have

740
00:38:11,462 --> 00:38:15,102
Speaker 1: a letter admitted into the trial. That was from an

741
00:38:15,142 --> 00:38:20,622
Speaker 1: anonymous source who said that apparently Blake's lawyer called Taylor's

742
00:38:20,661 --> 00:38:24,622
Speaker 1: lawyer a few weeks ago and said that Taylor needed

743
00:38:24,661 --> 00:38:26,941
Speaker 1: to put out a statement of support for Blake on

744
00:38:27,022 --> 00:38:30,661
Speaker 1: social media and if she didn't, Blake might have to

745
00:38:30,701 --> 00:38:37,142
Speaker 1: release ten years of texts between the two former best friends. Now, Allegedly,

746
00:38:37,422 --> 00:38:40,902
Speaker 1: Taylor's lawyer said this is extortion and hung up the

747
00:38:40,942 --> 00:38:44,062
Speaker 1: phone and ended the call. Now the judge has not

748
00:38:44,102 --> 00:38:48,381
Speaker 1: allowed this to be submitted and has said to Baldoni's team,

749
00:38:48,701 --> 00:38:51,582
Speaker 1: stops growing around. This has got nothing to do with

750
00:38:51,622 --> 00:38:54,741
Speaker 1: the case. You're just causing trouble and there's going to

751
00:38:54,741 --> 00:38:56,902
Speaker 1: be consequences if you keep doing this, because it's not

752
00:38:56,982 --> 00:39:01,982
Speaker 1: the first time. But unfortunately it was too late. Everybody's

753
00:39:01,982 --> 00:39:05,341
Speaker 1: read these allegations and lots of content's been made, and

754
00:39:06,022 --> 00:39:07,782
Speaker 1: the fact that it won't be part of the trial

755
00:39:07,862 --> 00:39:10,942
Speaker 1: is kind of neither here nor there, because now it

756
00:39:11,022 --> 00:39:13,382
Speaker 1: makes Blake look a whole lot worse.

757
00:39:13,661 --> 00:39:17,181
Speaker 2: I don't understand. So from where I'm sitting, this just

758
00:39:17,261 --> 00:39:21,701
Speaker 2: looks like Justin Baldoni is continuing to throw shit at

759
00:39:21,781 --> 00:39:23,542
Speaker 2: any shit that he can get his hands on. A

760
00:39:23,582 --> 00:39:26,942
Speaker 2: Blake Lively. Yeah, that has nothing to do with anything

761
00:39:26,982 --> 00:39:30,741
Speaker 2: they're talking about, because there's not relevant in any way.

762
00:39:30,902 --> 00:39:33,461
Speaker 3: I disagree with you, Holly. This all hinges on whether

763
00:39:33,542 --> 00:39:36,462
Speaker 3: or not Blake Lively as telling the truth. She's accused

764
00:39:36,582 --> 00:39:40,822
Speaker 3: Justin Baldoni of sexual assault, which is a really serious allegation.

765
00:39:41,542 --> 00:39:46,982
Speaker 3: If Baldoni's lawyers can prove that Blake doesn't tell the

766
00:39:46,982 --> 00:39:52,982
Speaker 3: truth and that she essentially blackmailed Taylor Swift into giving

767
00:39:53,022 --> 00:39:56,422
Speaker 3: her public support. Then all the stuff about Justin Baldoni

768
00:39:56,462 --> 00:39:59,502
Speaker 3: playing the public so was Blake to the same extent.

769
00:39:59,781 --> 00:40:01,902
Speaker 3: This is a character assessment, right.

770
00:40:01,862 --> 00:40:04,102
Speaker 2: Like, surely the problem is is he can't prove that

771
00:40:04,221 --> 00:40:06,341
Speaker 2: he didn't prove that the judge threw it out. He

772
00:40:06,422 --> 00:40:08,342
Speaker 2: just said it and now it's all over the internet.

773
00:40:08,342 --> 00:40:11,582
Speaker 3: Look, I'm with you, but play Devil's Advocate. Isn't this

774
00:40:12,582 --> 00:40:15,301
Speaker 3: the reason why you do a subpoena because you could

775
00:40:15,302 --> 00:40:17,861
Speaker 3: prove it If you subpoena Taylor Swift and you say

776
00:40:17,942 --> 00:40:20,221
Speaker 3: I want to see your text messages, then was his

777
00:40:20,342 --> 00:40:23,102
Speaker 3: idea that there would be evidence within her phone or

778
00:40:23,102 --> 00:40:26,181
Speaker 3: there would be evidence in the correspondence that this thing

779
00:40:26,261 --> 00:40:28,221
Speaker 3: had taken place between the two of them. And we

780
00:40:28,342 --> 00:40:31,102
Speaker 3: do know that there's been some sort of falling out

781
00:40:31,181 --> 00:40:34,861
Speaker 3: because the aforementioned unfollowing on Instagram. Everyone knows that that's

782
00:40:34,862 --> 00:40:36,062
Speaker 3: something you can bring to a court.

783
00:40:36,181 --> 00:40:39,542
Speaker 1: Right there are two courts playing out in parallel. One

784
00:40:39,542 --> 00:40:41,142
Speaker 1: is the court of public opinion and the other is

785
00:40:41,181 --> 00:40:44,542
Speaker 1: the actual court court. And while the court court will

786
00:40:44,542 --> 00:40:49,502
Speaker 1: not hear this allegation about Blake, allegedly trying to extort

787
00:40:49,542 --> 00:40:53,861
Speaker 1: Taylor through their lawyers. The court of public opinion has

788
00:40:53,902 --> 00:40:57,422
Speaker 1: been all over it, and it's you know, all over TikTok,

789
00:40:57,422 --> 00:41:00,062
Speaker 1: it's all over social media. We're talking about it now,

790
00:41:00,622 --> 00:41:03,942
Speaker 1: and so it's really just part of this mutually assured

791
00:41:03,982 --> 00:41:09,542
Speaker 1: destruction and smear campaign that is just had so many casualties,

792
00:41:09,902 --> 00:41:15,782
Speaker 1: you know, friendships that have been decades long, and relationships

793
00:41:15,822 --> 00:41:20,661
Speaker 1: and reputations and careers and job opportunities and the collateral damage.

794
00:41:20,701 --> 00:41:24,102
Speaker 1: I mean, even the press tour for Blake Lively's recent

795
00:41:24,142 --> 00:41:27,342
Speaker 1: movie and other simple favor with Anna Kendrick and a

796
00:41:27,422 --> 00:41:31,221
Speaker 1: Kendricks dragged into it. Like everybody within a million mile

797
00:41:31,422 --> 00:41:35,781
Speaker 1: radius of this Blast from It ends with us, and

798
00:41:35,862 --> 00:41:38,942
Speaker 1: that movie is just going down and is being smart

799
00:41:38,982 --> 00:41:41,982
Speaker 1: and it's awful to watch. Like, can you imagine Taylor Swift,

800
00:41:42,142 --> 00:41:46,062
Speaker 1: She's just finished her tour, She's trying to just stay

801
00:41:46,062 --> 00:41:49,381
Speaker 1: inside and be away from the spotlight. This has got

802
00:41:49,462 --> 00:41:52,542
Speaker 1: nothing to do with her, and she's been portrayed as

803
00:41:52,582 --> 00:41:55,462
Speaker 1: a main character in a narrative that she wants my.

804
00:41:55,502 --> 00:41:57,422
Speaker 2: Part of by Justin Baldoni.

805
00:41:57,661 --> 00:42:00,622
Speaker 1: Yeah, by Justin Baldoni. And it just feels like, I

806
00:42:00,622 --> 00:42:03,741
Speaker 1: don't know the level of betrayal. Imagine that this.

807
00:42:03,741 --> 00:42:06,142
Speaker 3: Court case isn't actually going to happen until twenty twenty six,

808
00:42:06,181 --> 00:42:07,142
Speaker 3: So we've got another.

809
00:42:07,382 --> 00:42:09,301
Speaker 2: It might not happen at all. I wouldn't be in

810
00:42:09,342 --> 00:42:11,381
Speaker 2: the a bit surprised if it doesn't happen at all

811
00:42:11,462 --> 00:42:14,262
Speaker 2: after all of this mess, Like, how is it possibly

812
00:42:14,261 --> 00:42:14,822
Speaker 2: going to happen?

813
00:42:14,942 --> 00:42:16,981
Speaker 3: I wonder though, I mean, I know you're saying that

814
00:42:17,102 --> 00:42:19,182
Speaker 3: these people have nothing to do with it. But if

815
00:42:19,422 --> 00:42:24,342
Speaker 3: Blake Lively's lawyer threatened Taylor Swift, then that is a crime.

816
00:42:24,781 --> 00:42:26,582
Speaker 1: But we don't know if that's we don't we don't

817
00:42:26,622 --> 00:42:27,741
Speaker 1: know if it's true.

818
00:42:28,062 --> 00:42:33,142
Speaker 3: But Friedman, the lawyer, signed an Affidavid saying that this

819
00:42:33,342 --> 00:42:34,462
Speaker 3: was true, which.

820
00:42:34,342 --> 00:42:37,062
Speaker 2: Well, he's saying an ath of David saying that somebody

821
00:42:37,142 --> 00:42:39,261
Speaker 2: told someone told it was true.

822
00:42:39,062 --> 00:42:41,542
Speaker 3: That someone told him it was true, and that holds

823
00:42:41,582 --> 00:42:44,661
Speaker 3: penalties of perjury. So that is a big swing. If

824
00:42:44,661 --> 00:42:47,742
Speaker 3: this is made up, then he took a big risk

825
00:42:48,181 --> 00:42:51,702
Speaker 3: to go and put this out there at all. Someone

826
00:42:51,741 --> 00:42:53,381
Speaker 3: has sat on the phone with him for an hour

827
00:42:53,822 --> 00:42:56,142
Speaker 3: and told him, he said that this person is very

828
00:42:56,181 --> 00:42:57,422
Speaker 3: closely linked to Taylor Swift.

829
00:42:57,462 --> 00:42:58,901
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was a very big risk,

830
00:42:58,982 --> 00:43:00,701
Speaker 1: because I think he knew that the gidge.

831
00:43:00,462 --> 00:43:02,861
Speaker 2: It would get thrown out, So it's not a risk

832
00:43:02,902 --> 00:43:04,902
Speaker 2: at all. It's just shit throwing because he knew that

833
00:43:04,942 --> 00:43:06,542
Speaker 2: he was going to say it, the judge was going

834
00:43:06,622 --> 00:43:09,262
Speaker 2: to say, that's bullshit. But it doesn't matter. It doesn't

835
00:43:09,261 --> 00:43:11,941
Speaker 2: matter because, as MIAs said, as long as it got

836
00:43:11,982 --> 00:43:14,942
Speaker 2: to be in the spotlight for a second, that's all

837
00:43:15,022 --> 00:43:16,821
Speaker 2: that mattered. And that's one of the things I keep

838
00:43:16,862 --> 00:43:20,462
Speaker 2: thinking about this trial because I'm not a massive swifty

839
00:43:20,542 --> 00:43:22,781
Speaker 2: like you are, Mia, of course, but it makes me

840
00:43:22,982 --> 00:43:26,861
Speaker 2: very sad if it is true that their relationship is over.

841
00:43:26,982 --> 00:43:30,382
Speaker 2: As in Blake and Taylor friendship breakups as we know,

842
00:43:30,462 --> 00:43:34,221
Speaker 2: are devastating, never mind when they are that entrenched like

843
00:43:34,342 --> 00:43:36,662
Speaker 2: this is not just they were just having their picture

844
00:43:36,661 --> 00:43:38,941
Speaker 2: taken together for a couple of years. This was, as

845
00:43:38,942 --> 00:43:42,342
Speaker 2: you say, godmother to the kids, holidayed together all the time,

846
00:43:42,822 --> 00:43:46,742
Speaker 2: Taylor's written songs about. Apparently, this is a very intense

847
00:43:46,741 --> 00:43:49,582
Speaker 2: friendship and if it has crumbled, that's really sad. But

848
00:43:49,661 --> 00:43:53,741
Speaker 2: the other thing is it's really interesting how this, as

849
00:43:53,781 --> 00:43:55,821
Speaker 2: you've said, Mia, this court case is playing out in

850
00:43:55,822 --> 00:43:57,502
Speaker 2: the court of public opinion as well as in the

851
00:43:57,661 --> 00:44:00,862
Speaker 2: legal process, and it's the court of public opinion that matters.

852
00:44:00,862 --> 00:44:03,821
Speaker 2: And Baldoni knows that too, as we know from way

853
00:44:03,822 --> 00:44:07,341
Speaker 2: back when the text messages that aren't disputed where he's

854
00:44:07,382 --> 00:44:10,221
Speaker 2: like bury her. He knows that all that matters is

855
00:44:10,261 --> 00:44:13,781
Speaker 2: the publicity around this case. And now it's so interesting

856
00:44:13,822 --> 00:44:17,982
Speaker 2: because tabloid reporting about celebrities has always been toxic, it's

857
00:44:17,982 --> 00:44:21,382
Speaker 2: always been bitter, it's always skewed to the negative, but

858
00:44:21,422 --> 00:44:24,221
Speaker 2: it used to come from the outside. And now it's

859
00:44:24,382 --> 00:44:28,622
Speaker 2: like because it all plays out in excavation of clues

860
00:44:28,741 --> 00:44:31,102
Speaker 2: on social media and grabs of this and grabs of

861
00:44:31,102 --> 00:44:32,622
Speaker 2: that and holding that up to the light and who's

862
00:44:32,661 --> 00:44:36,822
Speaker 2: unfollowed who, and it's worse and more intrusive than ever

863
00:44:36,982 --> 00:44:38,022
Speaker 2: in so many ways.

864
00:44:38,261 --> 00:44:41,622
Speaker 3: I'm still stuck on this point. Okay, if Justin Beldoni

865
00:44:42,781 --> 00:44:47,022
Speaker 3: called the most famous person in the entire world, let's

866
00:44:47,022 --> 00:44:50,382
Speaker 3: say it was George Clooney, and said, you better release

867
00:44:50,502 --> 00:44:53,062
Speaker 3: a public statement. If this was an allegation not proved,

868
00:44:53,102 --> 00:44:56,142
Speaker 3: if this was a rumor going around that he said,

869
00:44:56,261 --> 00:44:59,422
Speaker 3: you better provide some public support, put out a public statement,

870
00:44:59,462 --> 00:45:01,462
Speaker 3: or I am going to release all our text messages.

871
00:45:01,661 --> 00:45:03,542
Speaker 3: Do we not think that that would be relevant to

872
00:45:03,582 --> 00:45:04,102
Speaker 3: the case.

873
00:45:04,661 --> 00:45:07,422
Speaker 2: But it's not real to the case because the case is.

874
00:45:07,422 --> 00:45:10,302
Speaker 1: About what happened between Justin and Blake, not what happened

875
00:45:10,302 --> 00:45:13,861
Speaker 1: between Blake and No Taylor between them.

876
00:45:13,862 --> 00:45:16,302
Speaker 3: But the case is also what happened afterwards. The case

877
00:45:16,382 --> 00:45:19,861
Speaker 3: is about defamation, the case is about bots, but.

878
00:45:19,781 --> 00:45:22,062
Speaker 2: It's got nothing to do with Taylor Swift.

879
00:45:22,102 --> 00:45:25,741
Speaker 1: This is all stuff that's happened after the case. Like,

880
00:45:25,781 --> 00:45:29,221
Speaker 1: the case doesn't just keep going indefinitely. I mean, there

881
00:45:29,221 --> 00:45:31,342
Speaker 1: can be other cases about that. This is like the

882
00:45:31,422 --> 00:45:33,781
Speaker 1: hydra of this case. There are cases that are just

883
00:45:33,822 --> 00:45:35,822
Speaker 1: springing up and everybody suing everybody.

884
00:45:35,902 --> 00:45:38,421
Speaker 3: I think that this is how court cases work, though,

885
00:45:38,462 --> 00:45:40,942
Speaker 3: Like even if you looked at Bruce Lehman and Britney Higgins,

886
00:45:40,942 --> 00:45:42,422
Speaker 3: the shit that came up in that that you went,

887
00:45:42,502 --> 00:45:43,342
Speaker 3: how is that relevant?

888
00:45:43,422 --> 00:45:45,861
Speaker 1: This is how that's when everyone started to sue each

889
00:45:45,862 --> 00:45:46,982
Speaker 1: other exactly exactly.

890
00:45:47,181 --> 00:45:49,102
Speaker 3: And so I'm just saying I don't think that it's

891
00:45:49,741 --> 00:45:54,261
Speaker 3: ridiculous or totally irrelevant. I think that this detail I

892
00:45:54,302 --> 00:45:56,381
Speaker 3: can understand why a lawyer would bring it.

893
00:45:56,342 --> 00:45:58,062
Speaker 2: Up, But what's crappy about it?

894
00:45:58,102 --> 00:45:58,301
Speaker 1: Though?

895
00:45:58,382 --> 00:46:01,902
Speaker 2: Is that, as we've already said, it's not necessarily true,

896
00:46:02,062 --> 00:46:04,221
Speaker 2: but you just believe it to be true because you've

897
00:46:04,221 --> 00:46:06,981
Speaker 2: been told. And so the court of public opinion has

898
00:46:07,022 --> 00:46:09,462
Speaker 2: reached its verdict, and it generally seems to be the

899
00:46:09,582 --> 00:46:11,502
Speaker 2: Blake Lively is not a nice person.

900
00:46:11,942 --> 00:46:14,261
Speaker 1: I watched another simple Favor on the weekend, and I

901
00:46:14,302 --> 00:46:18,142
Speaker 1: watched a simple favor as well. She's a movie star,

902
00:46:18,462 --> 00:46:20,782
Speaker 1: like she is an actual movie star in the sense

903
00:46:20,822 --> 00:46:24,502
Speaker 1: of there are some people like Julia Roberts and George

904
00:46:24,502 --> 00:46:28,221
Speaker 1: Clooney who just pop off the screen, and I think

905
00:46:28,261 --> 00:46:30,502
Speaker 1: Blake Lively does like whatever you think of her personally.

906
00:46:30,542 --> 00:46:33,142
Speaker 1: And I know it's really hard in many ways for

907
00:46:33,822 --> 00:46:37,982
Speaker 1: celebrities and movie stars of today because of everything we

908
00:46:38,062 --> 00:46:41,301
Speaker 1: know about them, like the Timothy Shallomys, and we know

909
00:46:41,701 --> 00:46:43,261
Speaker 1: so much about their lives in a way that we

910
00:46:43,302 --> 00:46:47,022
Speaker 1: didn't really so much of the Julia Roberts's and the

911
00:46:47,062 --> 00:46:52,102
Speaker 1: Winnona Riders and celebrities of previous generations. But Blake Lively

912
00:46:52,622 --> 00:46:55,181
Speaker 1: has an amazing presence on screen. I thought, I mean,

913
00:46:55,181 --> 00:46:57,022
Speaker 1: those movies are absurd, but they are actually, you know,

914
00:46:57,142 --> 00:46:59,301
Speaker 1: quite a good time, and she was very good in them.

915
00:46:59,342 --> 00:47:00,222
Speaker 1: So is Anna Kendry.

916
00:47:00,661 --> 00:47:02,741
Speaker 2: That is all we've got time for out louders on

917
00:47:02,781 --> 00:47:05,222
Speaker 2: our Monday show if we've stunted a bit funny to today.

918
00:47:05,261 --> 00:47:07,542
Speaker 2: By the way, we are still little recording remotely, so

919
00:47:07,582 --> 00:47:10,102
Speaker 2: we're all in our different homes dealing with doggies and

920
00:47:10,142 --> 00:47:13,142
Speaker 2: different things. So massive thank you to our team for

921
00:47:13,261 --> 00:47:15,022
Speaker 2: juggling all of that to bring you the show, and

922
00:47:15,062 --> 00:47:16,941
Speaker 2: to all of you for being here with us. We'll

923
00:47:16,942 --> 00:47:18,821
Speaker 2: be back in your ears tomorrow.

924
00:47:19,062 --> 00:47:19,902
Speaker 4: Bye bye.

925
00:47:21,062 --> 00:47:24,221
Speaker 1: Shout out to any Mum and Maya subscribers listening. If

926
00:47:24,261 --> 00:47:26,862
Speaker 1: you love the show and want to support us as well,

927
00:47:27,062 --> 00:47:29,461
Speaker 1: subscribing to Mom and Miya is the very best way

928
00:47:29,462 --> 00:47:31,982
Speaker 1: to do so. There is a link in the episode description.